Latest / Propaganda / We Need Spaces That Aren’t Political | Episode 53

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We Need Spaces That Aren’t Political | Episode 53 · Propaganda

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for tuning in.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: You're listening to Propaganda with Mick and Jacob.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're here with another episode.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, breaking news.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Breaking news, everyone.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Ella Langley has broke the all-time Billboard Hot 100 record with the longest running number one song, Choosing Texas.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: She beat Wasn't she about to beat Mariah Carey?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it was.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: She did.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a couple weeks ago where she got the second place, I think.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: So with 23 weeks in the hot in the Hot 100, Choosing Texas is now the longest running number one in the Hot 100 history.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Surpassing Mariah Carey's All I Want for Christmas is you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: At 23 weeks.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's almost half of the year.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty impressive.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Having a song that's like in the top 100 for half of the year.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: That bit that beats like a Christmas song.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a trend.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a meme.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't come and go out of out of, you know, wait, that's so true.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't even like a trend on TikTok.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was just everyone loved the song.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is a uh you know, I think it's a cultural win for conservatives.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: And people might like laugh at that, but it's like Is she conservative?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's a she's a country's a country artist.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: So well everyone's gonna say, well, she's a white country artist, so of course she's conservative.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if she's Christian, I have no clue.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think she's a little bit more uh conservative leaning, I would think.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's not because of anything she's done, it's because of everything she hasn't done, is the thing, you know?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: She's not posting like for ice, like you know, defund ice type of thing.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like so also she's just like a nice, like normal, normal looking female country singing artist.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not this like Ice Spice, Megan the Stalin, Cardi B.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not this like loud and obnoxious, like in your face like musician.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that like speaks and her music again is not um made for TikTok.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like so many people this was not at all what's what we were supposed to talk about, sorry, but like so many artists make their music to trend on TikTok, like Doja Cat, for example.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: All of her music is meant to make little seven-second clips on TikTok and do a little dance to it.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think it is refreshing to hear an actual song that isn't yeah, for for a trend.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's like a the song's a good message, you know?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like kind of it's kind of like a traditional heartbreak song, you know, but whatever.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's good, good message, good song.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she got in trouble like what was this like last week?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So a bunch of resurfaced pictures of her came up from 2022.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: They always do.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: 2021, 2022.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So four years ago, guess what she was doing?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: These are pictures of her hunting.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: So she went deer hunting like four years ago and posted it, and people found it on all the social media accounts or whatever, and then they got enraged that she could I don't know, hunt an innocent animal and kill it.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Were they actually mad?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, 100%, yes.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, like that's outrage, outrage.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like it's just like when Tate McCray did the uh song with Morgan Wallen, you know, which is like, yeah, whatever.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: But like people get upset about it, and it's like if that's the controversy in your life as an artist, you've probably you're probably doing the right thing, you know.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have anything you want to talk about today?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna go into this McLamore stuff.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're good.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh now I'm interested.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of political artists, Macklemore has decided to once again become put himself in the spotlight for making political statements.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: If you know anything about McLamore, he has always been very, very political.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: So this is really not a surprise.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: What is a surprise is everything that followed after, and not a surprise, I shouldn't say surprise, surprise is the wrong word.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's just that's where the drama is stemming from.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Not a surprise, not a surprise to anyone.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so in case you haven't heard, uh, McLamore was an opening act for Ed Sheeran's tour.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so this is Ed Sheeran's concert.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is his tour.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: McLamore was just an opener.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: And on one of the tour stops in the US, McLamore opened at MetLife Stadium, and uh he made a political statement at the beginning of his set.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, free Palestine, we haven't forgotten about you.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Because all these people do all the time.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like, it's like, okay, you know, this usually does happen, which will okay, we'll get into it later.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: But basically his message was free all people, free Sudan, free Congo, uh, free, you know, all the people in America that have been, you know, under the terrorist organization ICE, like we're not free until everyone's free.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, classic, like liberal, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, just kind of appeasing to every little group out there.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: But what I thought was interesting is that he made a remark to the Jewish people that by him saying free Palestine, this is in no way criticizing them.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: By criticizing the Israeli government, by criticizing the state of Israel and their actions, this is in no way criticizing the Jews.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think people get those two things mixed up or they always have to go hand in hand.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: When you say free Palestine, it means you suddenly hate Jews.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: I thought that was interesting and a really well, it was it was well said the way he said it, that he did not want to divide the Jewish brothers and sisters in, you know, the uh that had come to the concert.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, just to make sure I don't want to lose my spot on this tour.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's what he's gonna say.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't enough.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't enough.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um some people were not happy still.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: So Robert Kraft, who owns MetLife, gave Ed Sheeran, his friend, a little ring.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: And Robert Kraft, I mean, he's he's donated to Met Life, or sorry, he's donated to APAC.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's as probably about as Jewish as it gets.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, he does not like that Macklemore made these statements about uh Palestine.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: So he gives Ed Sheeran a little ring, and and they're like, hey, you cannot continue your tour if you're going to have McLamore on your set.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: McLamore cannot perform at our stadiums.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And Ed Shapiro and Ed Shapiro.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: I said, stop.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And Ed Sheeran said, McLamore is my friend.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I'll just cancel the tour.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm staying with my friend, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, I I I actually have a different opinion about this than you do.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, he said, Oh, I don't care about that guy.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, yeah, I'll say, I'll do whatever.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'll not say whatever to appease you guys, right?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: McLamore was removed from the tour.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, McLamore.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: You had to go.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: You had to go.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Ed Shapiro said, no more.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, obviously this has sparked a lot of backlash because people all of a sudden, once again, care if out care about free speech.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, our free speech is being attacked.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: He can't say pre-free Palestine at a concert.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: So Robert Kraft had the other stadiums back him as well.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the next stadiums in line in the tour, and they said, Okay, McLamore, you can't perform at our stadiums either.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: We can't have you.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: The promoters, all of them are like, you gotta you gotta drop McLamore from the tour if Ed Sheeran was to continue the tour.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: They all fall in line, you know.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: They did.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now, okay.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, this has sparked a lot of backlash because now everyone cares about our free speech again.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh, it's being attacked.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: What are we gonna do?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Blah blah blah, you know.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, calm down.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: I do want to say one, it was not anti-Semitic, and I think that's the problem.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone thinks it's anti-Semitic.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing he said was anti-Semitic.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, he even made that very clear that it was not against Jewish people.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: He just disagrees with some of the things that Israel is doing in the war that they're in.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: However, I do think the two are the promoters, the owners of the stadiums, I think they have every right, and they're in their right, to remove him as an act.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you get politics at your work, if or if for whatever reason, if you talk politics at work, your boss can fire you.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's totally reasonable.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want that message at their stadium.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: It is important to note, though, that Kraft, I mean, he is kind of a hypocrite.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Back in 2017, when everyone was bending the knee to the national anthem at football games and everyone wouldn't, you know, wouldn't salute, they wouldn't hear it from for the American flag, they hated it.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: He, and I'll put the statement on the screen.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: He did say that he respected the American people, the American people's right to protest in the way they saw fit and to exercise their free speech, basically.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, so he's he's allowing people to protest for all of their beliefs except for one.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Except for one, yeah.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that is hypocritical.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's weird.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I but I do think it's okay for them to say we don't want Macklemore on the tour.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, of course.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: They can say, Yeah, you can't perform here.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're not gonna let you perform here if that's who you bring along.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: If they don't want that.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's funny, it's because he said two words.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Two words.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's what he said.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that got him in trouble.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and it's uh guys.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Those words were free Palestine.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's also not a free speech issue, though, either.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he went online probably the next day, the next week, and he said the same thing.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: He's fine.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's I I don't know.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: I have trouble believing these artists do it sometimes out of the goodwill of the heart.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to be careful about that because I understand some people do really care.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: But when it comes to these celebrities, I really do believe that they do these things for a reaction and to become relevant again.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, oh, I haven't I haven't heard Macklemore's name in how long.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, his music sucks.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: And now everyone's streaming his music.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they just do this stuff every time the next cultural trend comes in of you know, standing with people and equality and justice.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: They just do that to like, you know, follow along.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Appease.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: The problem here is the power is going against what the people are protesting.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Usually it's like, yeah, everyone's along, everyone's down with diversity and equity and inclusion, and everyone feels well and everyone feels good and free everything and no colonial oppressors, no colonial rules.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: But then this guy says free Palestine, and the owner of the stadium says, Yeah, you're not gonna perform here.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And also, any bit of political influence or power or relationships or anything that I have, I will do everything I can to make sure you can't perform at any other stadium.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does Ed Sheeran do?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Here's here's my thing, though.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think Ed Sheeran was in a in between a rock and a hard place.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: I really don't think that would be as easy as you would think.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Him and McLamore are friends, and they both put out statements, and I think they both did well with what they said.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Ed Sheeran has never been political, ever.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: He's very PG.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: He wants to keep it, he wants to keep that stuff away from his concerts.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually think Macklemore was a bad friend for going on this tour, knowing what type of person Ed Sheeran is, and still doing that, knowing that this is not his crowd, this is not his stage, these this is not his space to do that.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's his friends' tour.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: That to me is also kind of rude for him to do too.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't think that was the right setting to do it.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: He can absolutely say whatever he wants if he wants to do that at his own concert, but this wasn't the place.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: But he can't say whatever he wants.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because his job at MacLamore, his job is to tour.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, he makes his music and then he tours, right?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: If he can't perform at any stadiums because he's on a blacklist, then no, he can't just take up take up his business and go somewhere else, can't he?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but he's not.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, he's not really the victim in this.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: He's back in headlines, everyone's streaming his music.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I'm not saying he's the victim.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying he said something that was against the narrative, against people in power, and now therefore his his touring days are most likely over.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: You think other stadiums are gonna have them after this?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely do because everyone, the people are on his side, the people like him now.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone hates Ed Sherman, everyone's calling him a Nazi.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone they won't listen to his music, they won't, they're calling him the Nazi.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's crazy.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you laughing?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny because the only insult that both sides have is just you're a Nazi.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like Robert Kraft is gonna say that to McLamore, and then Macklort Macklemore's fans are gonna say that about Ed Sheeran.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I don't know, two things can be true at once, right?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe he's a bad friend just as much.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe Ed Sheeran's a bad friend for not sticking with his friend, you know?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and also, sure, if Robert Kraft owns the stadium, it's his right to stop anti-Semitism, um, I guess.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, you could also say that McLamore was known for making these political statements, like he's has never shied away from it.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: So knowing that maybe we shouldn't have had him before this.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Not that I know of.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Not that I know.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Not in this way, no.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: So the thing that blew up was him saying, Hey, by the way, I don't hate Jews.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is not to criticize Jewish people in the world.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: But like free Palestine, you know, and then they got in trouble, and now he can't do it anywhere, I guess.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: The bigger point that I want to make though is that I think, no, I know that spaces where politics do not become the main topic of conversation have to be protected.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think we are bombarded.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's exhausting how much we see.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you you scroll on your phone and you see someone dying in one reel.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: You see this the next reel, you see Trump this.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, but I'm serious.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: We were not meant to consume this much information.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: You've been watching my for you page too much.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's everybody's for you page.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you just you can't get away from it, is my point, I guess.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like politics does affect everything.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: I totally understand that.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: But that's why I think we do need these temporary spaces where we can escape from that, escape from the real world.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: People will call it privileged, but I am kind of privileged if I'm sitting in the concert.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: I've bought the ticket, I'm there, I have the money.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: That is privileged.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: I want to escape reality for a little bit.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not there at a political rally.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: I want to hear my favorite artist sing their songs.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to hear a message.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to hear their take on whatever had has just happened, whatever war.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to hear it in this setting.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: They can say it on Instagram, they can say it anywhere else if they choose to.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: But we need spaces that people unite and can feel like people again, or we'll just forever be permanently divided.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's so rare that you see giant groups of people come together that isn't about religion or politics.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: And we need to keep that, I don't want to say sacred, but we need to keep that, we need to keep those spaces important.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like, no, I no one, I don't care about South Sudan or freedom for the Somalis.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I could care less.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's actually better for me if they're not for me.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what to say, but like I don't care.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just it doesn't matter.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not even the fact that like he would do something that's politically relevant, like something that specifically, you know, involves the US or anything like that.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, he's saying like free Palestine.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like Right.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Which I agree with you.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, keep I I think you should have some spaces where politics just aren't in it.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like some things are just meant to enjoy, and that's okay.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're throwing in all this random stuff, like and it doesn't matter, it's both things.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's both sides.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying like, like, oh, we should just like say free we shouldn't say free Palestine, but we should be like where waving ma MAGA flags at the concert too.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you know, like just have a spot that's like maybe politics is toned down or not involved at all.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And like, yeah, yeah, like you're saying, if you made the choice to go there, you paid money to go see this artist perform their songs.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or at least you should have.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: It should not be going there to see is he gonna say free Palestine?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is he gonna say defund ice?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like it's like that has nothing to do with their concert or their music or why you're there as a fan.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I agree.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I mean Pat McLeore, he even proved it in his speech, like, people are dying and people are enslaved and in trouble, and there are bad situations in every corner of this universe.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: We and it is horrible that children are dying in war, but we cannot help everyone, and we cannot fight every single war, especially when it comes at the expense of our own country.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a totally that's a bigger topic, maybe for another episode.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: But I should not go to a concert in my home country and hear about Israel or Palestine as much as I do.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I like not as often as I do.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: I know our tax dollars, they're all going over there, and like I said, that's a whole other big like topic.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't think that our tax dollars should be going over there in the way that they are.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: But my point is or whatever they're doing, ever at all.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to hear about that.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think we should hear about everything going on in the Middle East, and like why do we have an opinion on it?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: We have an opinion because yes, our money is being sent over there, but why is our money even being sent over there?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Why should Americans care as much?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we care?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like Macklin was saying this should have no effect on our day-to-day life.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: And instead, it turns out it does because which we could touch more on this later, but the the war in Iran is a mess.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's bad.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's worse than a lot of people realize.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's a reason it's not being talked about, there's a reason news outlets aren't really covering it.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but Israel forced us into a war with Iran.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's just what it's just what happened.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're stuck there, and it's worse if we quit, and it's worse if we don't quit.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: The entire world is suffering economically, and not not to mention the actual people of the region, sure, they're suffering too.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: But like, you know, it's not our interest, it's not our problem.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: It shouldn't be at least, and it is.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're stuck, we're stuck in it.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, it's like every other war that's happened in the Middle East.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's literally that exact same formula, it doesn't matter where or when.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: But we're stuck there, and things are like proactively getting worse, not only for Americans, but because of our place in the world, because of our role in the world, it's also getting worse for everyone else, too.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, that's a little bit off topic from wherever you're going.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: But it really is like I think people are sick of this political message.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people are sick about hear sick of hearing it.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people are kind of fed up with like the well, I mean, you know, we're we're talking about plot politics too.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about politics too.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: But people are really fed up with the left and the right and nothing ever getting done and not and everything always being the same, and it doesn't matter who's in power, who's not in power.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it it just it really I don't know, you need places like concerts, like football games, yeah, like family Saturday outings, you know, downtown or something.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: You need places where politics is not the center the central issue for everything.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like Yeah, 100%.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Also, one last thing before we move into our last segment too, is that I've noticed um with the theatrics of politics now too, and everything being, you know, clippable, clickable, it's turned into this almost like a show.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: And like like Gen Z, we don't care about Palestine.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: We don't.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: We care about what celebrities are saying about Palestine.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: We care that Ed Sheeran didn't drop out of the two or two.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: We care that Macklemore said it.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: We care that Kim Kardashian posted this online but didn't support this.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's what everyone cares about.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's actually it's it's sick, really, because this is a real war and there is horrible things happening, but all we're consumed, we're just consumed in what our fill favorite celebrities are saying about the issue.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like even more so, more than ever, it's like, yes, what are your celebrities saying about it?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: But now, what is every single one of your friends saying?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: What is every single one of your family members saying?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: What's being talked about at Thanksgiving?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: What's being talked about when you hang out with your friends on the weekend?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not even just like, oh yeah, those are our celebrity figures who kneel for the anthem during the football game.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, well, do you support kneeling for the anthem during the football game?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, maybe it should be a lot.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe you shouldn't.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's like people are so consumed with everyone else's politics, and it ruined I mean it ruins relationships, it ruins friendships, but it's it is kind of that point where it's like, I can't we just go back to the 1980s when you could like disagree with your neighbors.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was rude to ask who you voted for.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's whispered that, yeah.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but it's like it is kind of true.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's taken over every aspect of our lives, you know?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And right.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're we're not outraged about what happened.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: We're outraged that Sabrina Carpenter didn't represent it well or didn't say it.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's weird.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's very, it's very black mirror.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, it's almost October, and for the month of October, and I guess a little bit of September, we want to do this.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't even know how to say it.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: We'd like to we'd like to stir the pot with each other.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Jacob, bring out the pot.
• 21:49
  unknown: Okay.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right, here's this this thing we got.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh Halloween themed.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so we're gonna pick a topic from it that we wrote down.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Before, okay.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then we're it's it's topics that we disagree about, and we will spend the last five minutes, I don't know, debating, talking about it.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Time to stir the pot.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: On our traditional gender roles outdated.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we disagree, and yes, you're going to listen to this.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: We actually we actually had a few that were tough to disagree on.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: That like we had a hard time coming up with some, but this was a good one.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think traditional gender roles are one, outdated for the modern way of life.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then two, I think we have the wrong idea of what traditional roles look like.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think traditional roles usually are based in Christianity.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone always goes back to Proverbs 31, what the woman does, what the man does, the man works, and the woman stays home and cooks and cleans.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think we have it a little, I don't want to say backwards, but I think we get the woman's role wrong.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of the times we believe that the woman should just stay in the home and all she does is the laundry, all she does is the dishes, and only takes care of the kids.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: When actually, if you read Proverbs 31, if that's where you take it from, the woman does a lot of the business work.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: She goes out into the market, she does her thing, she buys things, she's she gets ready for the winter, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: She does a lot of business and she does a lot of the finances of the household.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Managing the household is a lot more than just the cleaning.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I think traditional roles have been watered down, too segregated, and then for the modern day, I don't think it's reasonable.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's realistic.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: You done?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm done.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think the gender roles are not outdated.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think they can be outdated because they're outdated.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: They come from something more than just cultural and temporary.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're natural.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think God, our creator, designed men and women to be different, to cater towards different needs, to be good at different things, to have different strengths and weaknesses.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think the way God designed us naturally can ever be outdated.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think, to your point, how we view these stereotypes and norms, they can change, maybe cross time, across culture.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you see the similar themes stay the same.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or the similar themes should stay the same.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that a man should provide and protect his family, and that a mother should nurture and love her kids.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna hate this.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: What but that men love their wives and do it in selfless humility, and that women submit and obey it.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Why would I hate that?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that women submit and respect their husbands.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you have those parts down, which people hate that word submit, but if you have those parts down, I think that's the those are the biggest factors, A.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And B, everything else I think in your life will just kind of fall into place.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it needs to be the husband's the only one that drives, and the woman only homeschools the kids.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying it's that.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't agree with that at all.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm saying it might look like that for some people, it might look like that in some cultures or across some times of human history.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: But you're agreeing, aren't you?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: No, I agree with your premise of the natural roles, but I guess I guess when I think of traditional gender roles, I think of the way that we've twisted it, like I said in the beginning.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's realistic for modern day, and I don't think it was how it was meant to be in the first place.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's what I think.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well that's what I think.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: No, like I do agree the man is the protector, the woman is the nurturer.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like that I do agree.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: I guess if you mean by gender roles in that way, I do agree.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: I guess when I think of gender roles or traditional roles, I think of the man only works, the woman only cleans.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's very realistic for today.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I don't think that was real it's realistic for some people, for some people.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's the exception though.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you look at modern-day feminism and kind of the history of things leading up to that, you could say that the history of where we are now was started by people who were against the traditional rules, against the traditional the traditional household, against biblical values and morals.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: So But I think their biblical values and what they had even back then a little bit was twisted because it's they always go back to what the woman does in Proverbs 31.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I know there's other verses that speak on it, but really if you read it though, she's not just staying home all day and cooking meals.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: She's when they talk about managing a household, they're talking about this giant household, the finances, she's doing business in the marketplace.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: So she's not just mopping floors.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the problem, is people today think that that's all women were doing.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you actually went back and maybe talked to some of your grandparents, maybe looked into a little bit of history, no, women did a lot more than you think they did.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't just have dinner ready at 5 30.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like they did a lot more.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: They were actually valued a lot more.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: We as a society and culture have misplaced value on those things.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: We've taken value away from the things women did.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we've also, I think, degraded and belittled the other things they did to the point of to the point of like pretending that they didn't even do those things.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, I could agree with that.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: If the man's out working all the time, then of course the woman would be doing things at home.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's just kind of how it goes, you know?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that she's just this little housewife that's sweeping and making banana bridges.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's the picture everyone has in their heads when we say tradition.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying that that didn't even largely exist.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think in how most people I think at one point it did.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think it did.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think it does today.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think a lot of ladies want to stay home and bake sourdough all day, and that's it.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Not even like that's that's part of staying home.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think they think that it's just about that goes back to what I was saying, where I think they've devalued what that role is.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: What that role is.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think they've absolutely watered it down.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so do we agree?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think the woman I think she should have dinner ready at 5 30 and all the laundry and dishes dunted.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: These are not unreasonable expectations.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, okay.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think you agree with me more than you think.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, I think it's about teamwork more than you think.
• 29:26
  unknown: What?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Again, when we have this picture of traditional roles, they think that men work all day, come home, and that's they've fulfilled their role.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Not true.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm saying a lot that's a picture a lot of people have of when we say gender roles.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that picture of what a masculine man that provides protects of his household is inaccurate as well.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I agree.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was saying at the beginning.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I didn't do a way a good way of describing it, but I think you're arguing what people see it as, and I'm arguing what it actually is.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: But sorry.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Might might be twisted right there.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm saying things weren't like how they're portraying them.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think they were more than you think, and I think they were probably less than I think.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: So somewhere in the middle.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Alright.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: I hope my banana bread is done somewhat in the middle.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's my hope.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Alright.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, well that was a fun little topic there.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, just stop.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Stop.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: That was a heated little debate we got into.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: That was spicy.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, stop.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, we'll have to agree to disagree for now.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that question will work its way back into the pot.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: You guys will have to let us know uh what you think.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: What you agree with.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm speaking.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think two things can be true at once.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think we both have some of it right, some of it wrong.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, look at that.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Kumbaya.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Propaganda with Mick and Jacob.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: As always, we appreciate the listen.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: If you would rather watch instead of listen, we have a YouTube channel that's at propaganda mj.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: We also have a TikTok and an Instagram.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's at Mick and Jacob.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: We also have an X account that Jacob never posts on.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't really tell you to follow it because you'll get nothing from it.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: But it's at Propagand MJ.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's at propagand.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: No A at the end of Propaganda at Propagand MJ.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Give all of those a follow, interact with our content.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: It really helps get the podcast out.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: Have a great rest of your week.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: We will not be posting an episode next week.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: We will be busy with uh personal things, but we'll try to get back into the swing of things that first week of October.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll talk to you then.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Have a great rest of your week and weekend, and we'll see you soon.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Jacob.