Latest / The Shed Organics Show / #43 - A Tomorrow Of Togetherness | Jade Miles [Black Barn Farm]

Transcript

#43 - A Tomorrow Of Togetherness | Jade Miles [Black Barn Farm] · The Shed Organics Show

0:00
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Shed
0:03
Organics show. My name is Jordan and today I am
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joined by the incredible Jade Miles from Black Barn Farm in
0:13
northern Victoria. Now Jade runs a regenerative
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orchard and what farm really now with all sorts of different
0:23
things. And this conversation, not only
0:27
did we talk about her journey into becoming on the farm, but
0:32
we very quickly dived into a slightly more esoteric but
0:36
incredibly important conversation around systemic
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change built from the ground up, built up from our own personal
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choices, our own connection to our land and our history.
0:51
And then how we choose to then ripple that out to our
0:56
communities, how we choose to use our time and our stewardship
1:01
of the land to bring about these changes in small parts from here
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to then ripple outwards. We talk about how these types of
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local food networks are created and we speak about their
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experience going over to Vermont.
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And we also talk about the next generation and bringing in
1:21
children community and and generally just educating from
1:27
the farm in a very intentional way that leaves people feeling
1:31
very connected, very a part of something.
1:35
And then giving them that ability to go and take that to
1:39
their lives outside, planting a seed for the next generation.
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Now, this is definitely one of those conversations where my
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heart feels very warm. I feel more connected.
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I feel so good after this conversation.
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And this one is absolutely one for the books.
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So let's dive straight in. And I'm sure you're going to
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love it. Here is Jade, miles from the
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Black Barn Farm. Absolutely.
2:22
Well, we've been here for 10 years, but we've lived in
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Stanley on the Stanley food growing plateau for the better
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part of 25 years. And we both came off small scale
2:35
properties as kiddos, my husband in this region and me in
2:40
Gippsland. I grew up as a permi kid.
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And so it's sort of in my DNAA bit to to really be growing
2:46
food. And my husband has really
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always, always been interested in food production.
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But really Blackburn Farm as a concept was probably first
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seeded when we're in a very early 20s and we first moved
3:00
into this area and we were living on a little tiny old
3:04
cottage that was once a pub that was surrounded by an apple
3:07
orchard. And it was a multi generational
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apple farmer. And oh, we developed the
3:14
loveliest relationship with him. He was a really beautiful human
3:17
and quite a a Big Apple growing family.
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And so everywhere you went there were shamrines.
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But he ended up pushing all of his trees out and because he
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couldn't sell it as an undergoing concern and the kids
3:29
weren't interested in succession planning.
3:32
And really the story went that there just wasn't any money in
3:37
the commodity markets for apple production anymore for small
3:41
scale family owned growers. And that's sort of pretty deep
3:45
seed in our broken hearts at the idea of that fact.
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And it made us really start to question, even though we're only
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in our very early 20s, start to question the systemic challenges
3:58
that we're facing that actually have much larger ramifications
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for, for rural Regency, rural vibrancy, you know, regional
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opportunities and I guess connection to the systems that
4:13
hold us, you know, connection to country, our food, our medicine,
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our community. And it really set us on a bit of
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a path of critical thinking that took us probably the better part
4:28
of a decade to come back to once we'd had children of our own.
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It really exacerbated our need to understand why our food
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systems was so, you know, dominated by long supply chains,
4:41
dominated by, in Australia especially duopolies, that that
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really meant that farmers were the price takers and that really
4:51
meant it was almost impossible for farmers to farm in cohesion
4:57
with a regenerative way of being.
4:59
And so the way they were making their decisions was based on the
5:02
debt load that they were carrying and the yield return
5:06
that they required in order to maintain that debt load rather
5:09
than their deep connection to the landscape that they were
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stewarding. And so it really struck a pretty
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strong chord in both of us that simmered for a decade.
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We then looked for about 8 or nine years on this particular
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plateau for land very tightly held and quite small scale.
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And so we, we looked far and wide, but inevitably we ended up
5:37
coming back to here because it sits right at the top of the
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water catchment. And so the water is guaranteed
5:45
here. We're on a, on a Creek with a
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really solid water right. And we've got a beautiful
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holding dam. And for lots of different
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reasons, we liked the soil here. We liked the proximity to a
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tourism town. The other piece in this puzzle
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is that we went to Vermont in USA, in Northeast USA to
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research what localized food systems looked like and to
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understand what small scale family owned orcharding looked
6:13
like. And what we, what we realized
6:15
was that you needed a really short supply chain.
6:17
So it feels an ability to crimp that in and remove all of the
6:21
other players and become a price maker.
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It gave you a better chance and that you needed a really stacked
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diverse system. And so we don't just grow apples
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and pears, we grow heritage apples and pears.
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And so there's about 100 different varieties of them.
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That gives us six month picking season.
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We sell as you pick. We also have a couple of
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kilometres of a really large range of berries.
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We also do nursery trees. We do schools programs, we do
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workshops and, and upskilling lunches and, and different
6:53
events. And then I also do flowers and
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now we do pasture raised chickens or eggs as well.
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And so we, we really have packed as many different things into it
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as we possibly can. One, for the financial viability
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of the business, 2, for the ability for consumers to engage
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with us. And three, because it allows us
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to to rotate and add diversity on all levels to the landscape
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and not just create a monoculture.
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Wow, that's so interesting. I absolutely love how seriously
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you've taken that. I feel similar in a way that,
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you know, you're inspired that that necessary sort of itch
7:33
needed to be scratched, especially when the children
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come along. Because you're looking forward,
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you're looking at the next generation.
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And you're thinking this can get so much worse if we don't start
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to really have more people that are actually understanding the
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way the systems are flawed and trying to do something about
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bringing it back to that small scale, reducing those air miles
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for food, having that community engagement, which is so, so
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important and an appreciation for the land that you're on.
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I totally understand about the need for diversification as
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well. Obviously diversity being one of
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the central themes of nature anyway.
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It seems to just work in so many different ways when we use it.
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But just having to have these different ways, as you said, not
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only to to make some income, but also it's connecting with people
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in different ways. Because some people are going to
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love coming and picking your apples or some people are just
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going to be there as a schoolchild, just coming in,
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being inspired, maybe having that first part in their journey
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that's going to help kick them off on learning about land and
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food and where it comes from. Because that's what worries me,
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you know, having these children not understand where their food
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is coming from. They think it's from the
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supermarket or it's just such a, a breakdown in our connection
8:53
back to our food and our land. And it's just, it's really
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inspiring to see people like you.
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And I'm grateful for you for sharing the, the story and
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actually working hard on it to make it a reality.
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Can you tell me? I'd love to hear a little bit
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of, a bit more about travelling to Vermont.
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So have they, have they got some systems in place that are there
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that have been like that way for a long, long time?
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And, and what sort of other lessons and things were you
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seeing when you went over there? Yeah, it's pretty incredible.
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And we were lucky because we've got kind of long standing
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relationships with quite a lot of friends over there.
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My brother has lived there for a long time, had lived there for a
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long time and I did well. And so we were able to use that
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as a base and then kind of bounce around.
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But so Vermont is ranked number one on the American Locavore
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Index and that indicates that their strength and ability to
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supply locally grown food to the community.
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And, you know, just to put that in perspective, Victoria, which
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is predominantly an export state, would rank about 48 out
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of the 52 states. Wow.
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And so, you know, it it, it's pretty telling that we have a
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very different set of policies that direct, you know, where
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funding supply goes, where where policy and regulation sits.
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They haven't always been like that.
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They were pretty heavily dominated by a singular dairy
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industry. But their proximity to to Boston
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and to New York and their geographic size and their
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population base is not dissimilar to the northeast of
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Victoria, which is where we're based.
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And so it gave us a really good sort of visceral understanding
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of what it could look like if you localized your food system.
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And what they've done in Vermont though is particularly clever
10:48
because they've identified where all the grassroots and
10:50
initiatives are thriving. They've really pinpointed where
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all those sort of beating hearts in community is.
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And then so that's the top up, sorry, bottom up support.
10:59
Then they've looked at top down initiatives where they've really
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moved the needle and developed policy across the board around
11:10
their 25 goal local food and sustainability plan.
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And so, you know, they've, they've got this simultaneous
11:19
approach to supporting the bottom up initiatives through
11:22
the top down initiatives. And, and it really has allowed a
11:25
whole system. All of the boring stuff has been
11:28
included like logistics and schools programs and education
11:32
and consumer education and you know, grow the grower
11:37
initiatives and you know, funding grant regimes.
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And, you know, they've really considered exactly what the
11:44
system needs. And it's the food system, I
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guess is the, the single most complicated system that we've
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got as an abstraction. You know, we're no longer
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supplying our own food out of our own backyards.
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And we've got population bases that are now metropolitan based.
12:00
And so the the regional areas really are doing the the grunt
12:04
work to feed out our predominantly metro based
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populations. But the disconnect between the
12:11
two is vast. And so given, given that about
12:15
90% of us in the Western world live in cities and that stat is
12:20
set to get even higher over the next 20 years, it means that
12:25
people's respect and deep appreciation not only for the
12:29
human that created the food, but for the animal that gave its
12:33
life and for the ecosystem that has been impacted through
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monoculture production and the loss of biodiversity, you know,
12:40
seed loss and, you know, life loss at a granular soil level.
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It really means that food is now expected largely to be supplied
12:56
on call when desired at the price that people are willing to
12:59
pay, which is often below the cost of production by the time
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you you look at the entire supply chain and all the pieces
13:05
of the puzzle that need to be taken out of it.
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And so it leaves our farmers really hamstrung and in an, in a
13:14
with a complete disability to actively drive regenerative
13:19
practices and principles because there simply isn't the fat in
13:22
their day and in their financial budget to actually make that
13:26
work. And so Vermont is interesting
13:28
because they've really embraced A localised food system.
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There are, you know, there are swap tables everywhere.
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There are midweek farmers markets, There are tiny towns
13:40
that pop up to have these really vibrant local food offerings.
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There's local food available in there, in their schools, lunch,
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school lunch programs. There's lots and lots of
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cooperatives that are community owned.
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There's so many vastly different projects and programs and
14:02
initiatives on the ground that really start to connect people
14:05
back to their food that we went there and really our eyes were
14:10
on stalks. That was about 12 years ago ago,
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12 or 13 years ago. And that was really following us
14:18
starting to research why Australia's food system feels so
14:21
broken. And we both got really heavily
14:25
involved in understanding how to change food systems and doing
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lots of public speaking about it.
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And we started our own food Co-op here in in Beechworth that
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went incredibly well pre COVID with a really engaged audience.
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But I think ultimately, and that, you know, This is why we
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farm, we definitely wanted to put all of these ideas around
14:52
biodiversity and soil health and, you know, seed saving and
14:55
heirloom varieties and direct to consumer short supply chains.
14:59
We wanted to put all of that into practice.
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And that's what I wrote my first book about, which was future
15:05
standing and the development of of these beautiful rhythmic
15:08
seasons that you live in across the year.
15:11
But ultimately, ultimately, there's a bigger piece in the
15:18
puzzle that is at play that really doesn't matter how
15:22
connected we are to our food system and how well we build or
15:27
rebuild our connection to land. None of that matters if we
15:36
haven't huddled. And so that really is where my
15:38
second book came from. It's a cultural piece that
15:43
basically asks us to rewrite our story away from the one of deep
15:48
separation from self, deep separation from the reciprocity
15:51
held by others, and deep separation that is our
15:55
fundamental challenge to overcome from the ecological
15:59
systems that hold us. We, we have built this narrative
16:04
that is ultimately hurtling us to towards a place of
16:09
fundamental destruction and and collapse inevitability that says
16:15
as the human species, we are top dog and we don't actually have
16:20
to play by the rules of mutual reciprocity.
16:26
And we can extractively take what we like when we like at the
16:30
price, price we're willing to pay without putting anything
16:33
back in. And it leaves us in a place of
16:37
deficit, vast deficit. So not only ecological deficit,
16:41
but cultural deficit, you know, we've we've lost the art of
16:47
sitting silently and moving out of our heads that we've so
16:52
greatly celebrated for hundreds of years, because that's where
16:55
success sits surely in our heads and our ability to, you know,
16:59
create systems and order and efficiency.
17:02
And it leaves us void of an ability to really listen.
17:07
Listen to our bodies that are Co creating stories with Mother
17:10
Nature herself. Listen to the calling or the
17:14
rhythm of the year that we were once so deeply connected to.
17:17
And I had an understanding of listen to a landscape that
17:22
actually needs us to to participate with it.
17:26
And that lack of reciprocity has left us with an extractive
17:30
mindset. And that extractive mindset will
17:33
ultimately leave us without a place to call home.
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And so, you know, we definitely Blackburn Farm is a place for
17:43
growing amazing food for our community and we do it as wildly
17:47
and as naturally as we possibly can.
17:49
We mimic Mother Nature wherever is is possible.
17:52
And we never add synthetic anythings, no synthetic
17:56
herbicides or fungicides or pesticides.
17:58
We do lots with our, our hands and we, you know, we have lots
18:03
and lots of practices that allow us to do that.
18:08
But the greatest part of all of it is that we educate our local
18:13
community to, to understand that that is what a healthy ecosystem
18:16
actually looks like. And that's what produces healthy
18:19
food and healthy medicine and opportunity to sit in the
18:23
landscape quietly and, and breathe deeply and connect with
18:27
your senses and connect with the landscape and the energy that's
18:30
coming from the natural world. But ultimately, the joy for us
18:37
really is that we now have a beautiful environment that we
18:40
can invite people to, to sit in the dam or sit in the river and
18:44
lie on you and watch the clouds. Or sit in ceremonial circle in
18:49
men's circles or women's circles, or, you know, sacred
18:54
fire circles or whatever it might be.
18:56
Or create silent mandalas or journal in a corner of the
19:01
property. Ultimately, we need to return.
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We need to return to the mother that knows how to hold us.
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We need to return and we need to shut up.
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Because learning to really listen to what we can Co create
19:18
together will ultimately be our greatest opportunity to return
19:26
to a balanced state. And hopefully, despite the fact
19:31
that we've reached six of the non planetary boundaries, we've
19:35
surpassed them. Hopefully there is enough
19:39
opportunity and time for us to rewrite our story that is rich
19:46
with ritual and connection and initiation and reciprocity.
19:54
That's I. I couldn't have said any better
19:56
myself. Everything that you touched on
19:59
there is so both beautiful in a way, but also scary in a way of
20:03
how we're, we're out of step of that dance.
20:07
We're not in that, as you say, reciprocity where you might, you
20:14
might have to adapt and take a step based on not what you want,
20:18
but what you're observing around you and how you're feeling about
20:22
the space or the land and. It's it's this disconnection or
20:29
misunderstanding that ancient cultures have known for
20:35
thousands of years. And that's that wisdom that
20:38
we've forgotten. We're obsessed with this
20:39
knowledge of trying to say, I know how to do things and make
20:43
build this and blah, blah, blah. And it's this ancient wisdom
20:48
that's people have understood for thousands of years.
20:50
Looking at the stars, watching the weather patterns, reading
20:54
the land and Mother Nature and then being able to work within
20:57
that. This ultimate separation of
21:00
being humans and nature rather than humans are part of nature.
21:05
We're inside that same circle. And you're so right that that is
21:12
such a keystone to understanding all of these food systems and
21:17
making systemic change in a way that is going to actually have
21:20
some long term benefit. Because yes, we may all want to
21:25
start with our food sovereignty. Something that I try and promote
21:29
is for everyone to start growing a little bit or start having a
21:32
look in local areas to to understand where we can find
21:36
local growers and all of this. But ultimately like you said
21:39
with in in Vermont with the top down approach where they are
21:43
really helping from the top understand that connection to
21:46
land and keeping it in that localized form where we're not
21:52
getting that in Australia for one and for many Western
21:55
countries around the world. I think what you're doing is
22:00
absolutely beautiful in terms of reminding people, giving people
22:04
that space to be able to come and feel that for themselves and
22:08
experience it for themselves. Because it's not.
22:11
It's all good for someone to say this and for them, someone in a
22:16
city or something to just go, Oh yeah, that's that's nice.
22:20
You know, you get to feel that on your farm and things like
22:23
this and but having that opportunity to bring that person
22:27
into a place where they can connect back to nature and then
22:30
realize the power of it. I think, you know, there were so
22:34
many things wrong with the the pandemic, but we we did see a
22:38
lot of people realize what what kind of connection back to our
22:43
families and the things that we we like to do.
22:46
What's actually most important in life, this love and
22:49
connection and community that it sort of births this new, you
22:55
know, wanting people to slow down and not travel into the
22:59
offices so much, stay around home and family and community.
23:02
So we did see a little bit of a realization.
23:06
So sometimes, unfortunately, it seems that it needs to get
23:10
really bad for people to understand and have this rock
23:15
bottom for them to start building back up.
23:20
There's so many wonderful things I want to touch on.
23:23
Let's go. So first of all, I want to go
23:26
back to your future studying approach because this word may
23:33
be new to some people, but I want to, I want to understand
23:36
what that means to you. And I know you've touched on a
23:39
whole bunch of these really important factors about thinking
23:42
about future and, and bringing that community and thinking,
23:47
rewriting our story. But what does it mean to you?
23:50
And how would you, how would you want to see that concept
23:54
embodied? Well, what it means to me is the
24:03
way I live my life. And so the, the, the sort of
24:08
very tight summary of it is that it's living like tomorrow
24:11
matters. And it means that you live in a
24:17
state of reciprocity with the ecosystem that's holding you.
24:20
And that's the human and the non human, the other than human.
24:25
It means that you live with a sense of aliveness.
24:30
And that means that you need to actively work on your state of
24:37
well-being so that you don't have great big brick walls up to
24:41
protect you. In the world that we're
24:42
functioning in, that is fundamentally not set up to be
24:47
humanised. You know, it's set up as an
24:49
industrial system. And we are part of that, that
24:52
cog turning the efficiency growth narrative that we've all
24:58
become accustomed to being just part of.
25:02
And that has essentially numbed us and made us, made us
25:05
apathetic. So living in a way that is
25:09
future studying oriented, It's seasonal, it's local, it's
25:13
simple, it's really rich in ritual.
25:18
It's is filled to the brim with initiation across those really
25:24
important milestone eras of a lifetime.
25:30
It understands our ability to feed and and nourish and soothe
25:37
and medicate ourselves with the things that are available,
25:41
available to us in our own landscape.
25:44
It's an ability to read the landscape and to read the season
25:48
that you're in and to build this beautiful annual rhythm around
25:52
that. And for me, I think, and this
25:55
definitely isn't relevant to everybody, completely depends on
25:59
your personality type. It's not even relevant to my
26:01
husband in the same way. But for me, I really need to
26:06
have found an outlet or a balance in the way I actively
26:12
use all the parts of my very being.
26:16
So I recently did a vision quest that had a whole lot of
26:20
questions being posed to Mother Nature to help me work out what
26:25
my path, really what my ecological work to do was, what
26:27
my path should be. And, you know, storytelling is
26:32
woven all the way through that. But the thing that was that I
26:37
couldn't get away from was that it is important to me that my my
26:40
head is activated and that my intellect has capability to
26:44
participate on a relatively regular basis.
26:48
What had happened, unfortunately, was that I'd been
26:50
working off for a pretty intense period of time in a pretty
26:54
senior role, and the balance of that had started to dominate the
26:58
way I was moving through the world, and I just stopped
27:01
functioning. I really only function when my
27:07
head is in complete cohesion and and balance with my heart being
27:11
listened to at the same time and also my gut.
27:15
I'm incredibly intuitive and I need to be able to tap into my
27:18
gut and move at the pace that my gut allows me to and and listen
27:23
to it and it'll tell me. It tells me every time what's
27:25
right and what's wrong. But I stopped listening to that
27:27
when my head becomes dominant. But, and this is the bit that
27:30
often isn't relevant to lots of people, my hands, you know, I've
27:33
got these big, square, practical, strong hands and feet
27:38
and I'm often barefoot and, and barehanded.
27:41
And I need them to be activated and not just on a keyboard.
27:46
I need them in the dirt. I need them making bombs.
27:50
I need them harvesting flowers. I need them, you know, finally
27:55
sifting the different seeds that I've saved from that season.
27:59
So for me, I need my whole body to be activated in all of its
28:03
various parts and capabilities to be the custodial species that
28:09
I am as a human being. That taps into my desire to
28:15
nurture and nourish and be in service to the ecosystem that is
28:20
my my home. And so for me, future studying
28:24
is being all of those things in a relative level of balance and
28:30
without any one of those things dominating.
28:32
If my hands aren't in the dirt on a daily basis, I've barely
28:36
function. And if I'm not connected with
28:42
really heightened sense of senses where I can hear the
28:45
different animals and I can feel the change of the season and I
28:50
can really listen to my gut when it says, you know, you need to
28:54
go into the Bush right now and sit and just be, then I'm out of
28:58
step. And when I'm out of step, I
29:00
don't, I don't function very well.
29:02
And I'm definitely not living in a way that values a steady
29:06
future. And I don't make decisions that
29:09
value that either. I make decisions really
29:11
differently. And so I make decisions based on
29:15
the seven generations in front of me, and probably based on the
29:18
wisdom of my ancestors 7 or more generations behind me.
29:25
And that means I have to slow. It means I have to listen.
29:30
It means I'm never reductionist in the way I think.
29:34
I can really look at the complex whole and understand the
29:40
ramifications that my decisions will have and be sure wherever
29:44
possible. And I move at pace often, so
29:47
this isn't always possible, but make decisions that ultimately
29:54
value the life that sits at the core of how I've made that
30:00
decision. And not just human life, but the
30:05
life of a living, breathing culture that we form just a tiny
30:11
part in the broader system. And obviously the life of the
30:16
ecological systems that we understand and that we don't yet
30:19
understand. And there's plenty of those.
30:21
And, you know, making sure that there's plenty of time to really
30:25
sit and just observe and, and build trust around.
30:31
I have probably started to lean towards a much more esoteric way
30:37
of being since hitting perimenopause and realising that
30:41
humanity has so very little understanding of what's actually
30:48
at play, the energetic forces and faith in the unexplainable.
30:53
Yeah, that's absolutely right. You're hey guys, really quickly
30:57
jumping in. I just want to remind you if you
31:00
are not subscribed to this show, that is the number one thing
31:03
that you can do to show me your support.
31:05
So if you're finding value from this conversation and you're
31:08
deeply engaged, I would love you to hit the follow or subscribe
31:11
button. All right.
31:12
Back to the show. Everything that you're saying
31:15
sort of brings me back to this idea of tuning in or being in
31:19
tune or being in resonance as well with what's around you and
31:25
myself with a big musical background, I understand the
31:29
power of resonance, the power of key and harmony and the way that
31:35
dissonance feels as well. So the for those that don't
31:41
understand the dissonance of being 2 notes that are right
31:43
next to each other playing and you get this sort of really
31:46
discordant feel. And even down to the frequencies
31:52
in the say, for example, most of us, as you say, you feel
31:58
disconnected and you feel less alive when you're not in tune
32:03
with your body and the environment around you.
32:07
It's almost like say you're, you're listening to the radio
32:11
with that little bit of static constantly on that it's not
32:15
quite perfectly tuned in. And it's just, it's so unnerving
32:19
and it's just not right. And I know many people don't
32:25
know that originally the, the tuning of music was moved to 440
32:30
Hertz from 4:32. So the original A tuning used to
32:33
be 432 Hertz. It's been moved for this reason.
32:38
I mean, you know, I'm, I'm calling it nefarious reasons,
32:40
but it was moved to 440 Hertz so that everything that we listen
32:45
to and all of our music and everything has been shifted so
32:49
that it's out of dissonance with the natural earth tones and the
32:54
natural frequency. So I didn't.
32:57
Play that. Well, yeah, highly encourage
33:00
everyone to look into it because you know, you don't need to take
33:02
my word for it. But it is a really fascinating
33:05
story whereby it has been at the original musical of the
33:09
classical music that we have known and loved that's been
33:14
really timeless, has all of its original tunings in that 432
33:20
Hertz A. And when we come back to some of
33:25
our self veggio frequencies and things that people use, the
33:29
singing bowls and all of these types of things that have these
33:33
really incredible resonant frequencies that seem to heal
33:36
us. They seem to do some really
33:39
amazing things with the the birds and everything outside the
33:42
plants. For example, the classical music
33:45
in 432 seems to open up the stomado openings on the plant
33:49
leaves a lot more, a lot more, causing lots more growth.
33:53
There's a lot more vibrancy in the plants.
33:56
This this type of resonance and and harmony is something that
34:03
we, as you say, completely have no understanding of in our
34:08
day-to-day lives. And we live as if it doesn't
34:12
exist. And it's a little bit of, you
34:14
know, we're we're thinking, but when you get the opportunity to
34:20
really tune into what is around you and even whether whether
34:25
it's with a person that you just really get along with or whether
34:27
it's a conversation or a piece of music or just the song from a
34:33
bird or something like this. It's just you really can feel
34:37
when that resonates through your being and it has the power to
34:41
heal sound, I believe is going to be a huge part and in our
34:46
future of of healing and medicine as well.
34:49
So it's that really resonates with me when that when you said
34:54
that about having to really just be a part of it, be involved, be
35:00
listening and around that concept of in tune with your
35:06
surroundings. So.
35:08
Real live. I interviewed someone not long
35:10
ago who said you just have to raise the numbness bar.
35:15
We've all become so easily placated by being numb by
35:21
sitting on video screens and watching Netflix endlessly and
35:25
just apathetically taking the stories that are fed to us.
35:29
And then, you know, playing into the narrative that says growth
35:35
is, you know, capable of being endless.
35:39
Actually, let's challenge these things.
35:41
Let's hold on to curiosity and critical thinking and, and step
35:45
in, lean right in to cracking open.
35:49
And you know, that takes bravery to crack open and to, to be
35:54
alive because it means you feel in a way like someone who
36:00
listens to music. You know, the, the decibels of a
36:04
cracked open human are kind of overwhelming.
36:08
The highs are so high, they're euphoric.
36:10
And the lows are deep and felt with such intensity that you
36:16
know the the grief can feel like it's drowning you.
36:20
But in amongst all of this, if your feet are firmly planted and
36:25
being held, actually what it leaves you with is a state of
36:30
aliveness. And that is pretty fucking
36:33
magnificent. It is, yeah.
36:35
That's so true because we just saw we're so quick to want to
36:39
dismiss or hide away from or medicate these deep feelings,
36:45
whether they're positive or negative.
36:47
And really being able to sit in them and have that wave sort of
36:53
pass through you and feel every single part of it whilst your
36:56
feet are firmly on the ground. That's absolutely feeling the
37:00
rich tapestry of life and being able to really have the most
37:04
lived experience that we can. I feel like though, even though
37:10
we we totally misunderstand maybe the wildlife and and
37:15
nature in general in terms of its ability to feel in the same
37:18
way. I feel like as humans we're
37:20
gifted with this ability to experience this in such a deep
37:25
way, but then also use that in a way that other things in the
37:30
natural world can't. Because we can.
37:34
We can now pollinate, take plants from different parts of
37:38
the world. We can cross things to make
37:39
better versions or, you know, sweeter versions, more
37:44
nutritious versions maybe, or all of these types of things.
37:47
We have the ability to do this. So we want to use our intellect
37:51
and our intelligence in that way to get our hands in the dirt and
37:55
do things that are positive, net positive to the ecosystem and
37:59
the environment, rather than this extractive approach
38:03
thinking that we can play God at every turn.
38:08
I mean, it's fundamentally it's a different paradigm.
38:11
It's moving from an extractive paradigm to a regenerative 1.
38:14
And you know, we've been told for a very long time now that
38:18
we, one can, but two, are entitled to take whatever we
38:23
want in whatever way we like and that that won't have
38:26
ramifications. So, you know, that sense of
38:30
collapse, inevitability is a shadow that's hanging over our
38:33
head. And there is that beautiful
38:36
saying, I can't remember his name off the top of my head.
38:40
I've quoted him in my second book.
38:42
He said I once thought that the challenge was easily, would
38:47
easily be changed by providing statistics and evidence.
38:51
But actually the biggest challenge is apathy and and
38:56
selfishness and greed. And so we've we're ultimately
39:00
faced with a cultural issue and it's time for us to really
39:04
rebuild what that looks like and rewrite our story and lean back
39:06
into being emergent and, and to remember that as humans, not
39:12
robots, we operate in a very different way.
39:16
We're not predictable and that's actually OK.
39:19
And we don't have all the answers and that's OK.
39:22
And we don't have to always be efficient because that's
39:26
actually breaking us. And our disconnection from the
39:30
things that hold us will ultimately leave us in a really
39:33
tricky spot. So I think I started by saying,
39:39
you know, we grow food, but it's just the, it's just the platform
39:42
that we operate from. For the, for those who aren't
39:47
sure where to go with this esoteric conversation that has
39:49
rambled in lots of different directions.
39:53
I think the beauty of growing food is that it, it, it allows
39:59
you to develop wonder at this teeny tiny little thing that
40:03
sits in the palm of your hand that has a memory and a knowing
40:07
that we can't even begin to fathom.
40:09
But when you put it into the ground, it's Sprout's life and
40:12
it's Sprout's life in a way that then feeds us and gives us life.
40:15
And it then provides shade and mycorrhizal stories and.
40:21
It it takes us through seasons and it provides rhythm and
40:25
ritual across the year that we might not otherwise have.
40:27
It provides us with an opportunity to pick it and take
40:30
just a moment to observe. So, you know, growing food is so
40:35
foundational, but it also has all of these other layers and
40:39
these gifts that it it offers you in a way that allows us to
40:43
return to being the version of ourselves that we've kind of
40:47
forgotten. And so remembering who we are
40:50
and what our ecological work to do is can begin with the seed
40:54
that you pop in the ground. And it might not even be the
40:56
ground. It might be a pot on a balcony.
40:58
And so I think food growing really is pretty humbling
41:04
because Jesus, it's easy to bugger it up too.
41:07
And so that reminds you that you're not in control.
41:11
Yeah, and the it's so fun watching young children discover
41:16
the seed, when they put the seed in in like a little piece of
41:19
soil and they water it in the sunlight and then they see it,
41:22
the excitement and wonder that these children see.
41:26
You do a lot for for kids in education, don't you?
41:28
So can you tell me about, about that and, and your approach to
41:35
educating young kids, maybe your children, yourself and, and how
41:41
you're seeing and, and all of these things that we've just
41:45
sort of spoken about. How are you bringing that down
41:47
into practicality for our children when they're visiting
41:50
and, and talking about education?
41:53
Yeah. So we do.
41:54
We have lots. Of kids on the property.
41:56
We don't do it in Term 3 just because it's very cold and very
41:59
wet here. We do have undercover areas, but
42:01
the kids want to be outside and in it.
42:03
And so, you know, we love to invite them to take their shoes
42:06
off and to run around and to observe and to interact and have
42:09
their hands in the dirt. It's super seasonal.
42:12
So we we really, truly do the things we would be doing in that
42:16
season at the time. And we try to be really
42:19
practical. So it's pretty uncommon for us
42:21
to give them an activity that. Is just creative.
42:27
But at the farm, it's more likely that rather than drawing
42:30
a picture, although we do sometimes do that, we are more
42:33
inclined to give them a pocketful of potatoes and get
42:36
them to take their shoes off and get them to plant the potatoes
42:38
with us. Or it might be that we give them
42:41
a handful of sunflower seeds and we get them to poke them into
42:45
the ground. Or they might harvest
42:46
raspberries. Or they might harvest, you know,
42:49
10 different varieties of apples so that they can learn all the
42:52
different types of apples. And it's obviously a bit
42:56
dependent on age. So we have kiddos as young, as
42:58
young as kinder kids and they really are best just to be doing
43:03
the, the eating harvesting part of it.
43:06
But then we might have all the way up to university students
43:09
who are coming to have a look at, you know, geological
43:13
assessments or understand irrigation or, you know, look at
43:18
biodiversity or look at yeoman's theory of permanence or, you
43:22
know, depending on what it is, we we cut it according to who
43:25
we're trying to align with educational practices around.
43:29
We get lots of home schooling families that come.
43:33
And so they're amazing because you get these kids that have not
43:39
had their curiosity curbed. And so they often come with more
43:44
knowledge than we have sometimes, you know, because
43:48
these kiddos have been given the opportunity to find a niche and
43:51
scratch it to the point where they then understand exactly
43:55
what it was they were curious about.
43:57
So we run half day programs, we run four day programs, we run
44:01
week long programs. We run multiple seasons across a
44:04
year programs, which gives schools the ability to bring
44:08
their kids back across different periods.
44:10
You know, they might plant the seed and they might.
44:13
Preserve the the. Product and so that yeah, that's
44:18
pretty well suited to maybe year nine group.
44:24
There's also lots of diversity on the.
44:25
Farm. So it's not just that we grow
44:28
potatoes or apples or flowers. You know, some kids just want to
44:32
fish all day. Other kids want to hand feed the
44:35
geese or milk the goat or make goats soap or whatever it is.
44:41
It gives us the ability to have lots of different activities
44:43
happening and all the kids to go to the area of greatest interest
44:47
and not be forced to do something that they're just
44:49
rolling their eyes at and couldn't think of anything worse
44:51
than. So you really do get the most
44:58
and we. Always start with an opening.
45:00
Ceremony where we ask them to close their eyes and imagine
45:03
what this landscape looked like 200 years ago without wire and
45:07
palings and without land ownership and, and you know,
45:12
with our colonised practices being applied to the land.
45:18
And we always ask them to arrive in the landscape as though they
45:23
were appalling gang meeting person who deeply understood
45:26
what that landscape needs them to be as land stewards for the
45:29
week or the day or the afternoon that they're with us.
45:34
And we always finish with a, a ceremonial fire at the end that
45:39
gives each child a chance to be witnessed in what they've learnt
45:42
and what they've experienced or, or observed or what they've felt
45:46
in the space that is Blackburn Farm.
45:50
And so it's a really different way of being for these these
45:53
kids. We tend to give them a pretty
45:57
long rope. And so that can also be quite
46:00
different for some kids who are used to kind of sitting down.
46:03
We, when I ask the first question, they always put their
46:06
hands up. And I always say, you don't need
46:09
to put your hand up. You just need to kind of feel
46:10
into responding to me. And that doesn't matter if 10 of
46:13
you give me an answer at once. I, I want to connect with you.
46:16
You don't have to feel like some of these structures that we've
46:19
put in place that hold order actually need to be applied.
46:23
And so you can let all of that go when you're at the farm.
46:26
So yeah, we love it. We have lots.
46:29
Of kids come back. Year and year and year and year.
46:31
And lots of kids come back outside of their excursion.
46:35
They come back with their family.
46:37
And, you know, they come because they want to show us a photo of
46:41
the potatoes that they planted when they were here three months
46:43
ago, or they want to see the potatoes that they planted here
46:46
and what they're now looking like.
46:47
So yeah, you definitely sow seeds of hope.
46:52
Into your week. When you're dealing with the
46:54
next generation who are, you know, viscerally participating
46:59
and, and actively having their eyes opened to really simple
47:04
things that they can also access.
47:07
So it's, it's beautiful. We do a lot of it.
47:10
There's there's no, there's no financial.
47:14
Reason to do? It it, it doesn't really return
47:18
nearly what the cost is to us, but in our whole business model
47:23
with all of the different elements of work that we do,
47:28
it's kind of the benevolent. Benevolent element.
47:30
That, we think, is pretty critical.
47:34
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
47:35
Well, these are the next people. That are going to be having this
47:39
attitude towards our land. And if they can come in with
47:42
that attitude, I like how you set the intention at the start
47:45
where they come in and have to imagine that they are stewards
47:50
of the land and what does that land require from them?
47:53
Not what they wish to do to the land themselves.
47:57
And you know, I, I mean, I'm guilty of it too often where I
48:02
will come into a garden or a space and I'll think, oh, I can
48:07
be super creative here. What can I do?
48:08
I can, I can set up this. And even though I'm still
48:11
working within the principles of nature, I'm still, I still have
48:15
that sort of creative force, being a very creative person.
48:19
But I feel like you, you, it needs to be that dance, doesn't
48:22
it? So you need to have, you can
48:25
have your creativity, but within the bounds of what the land is
48:28
asking for. And I try and teach people to
48:32
read the plants and understand, say our weeds, for example, that
48:37
are signposts for what the soil might need or for what the
48:40
ecosystem is is needing, bringing back flowers, deep
48:44
taproots or some sort of drainage or anything like this.
48:49
And to to read it to then understand, OK, that's where the
48:52
land is moving. That's where it's wanting to go
48:55
in this direction. And me trying to swim upstream
48:59
with my own, you know, this is what I want is going to just be
49:03
going totally against everything.
49:05
And I'm not In Sync. And I'm not in that, in that
49:08
dance. So it's really nice to set
49:11
children up with this at the start so that they understand,
49:14
OK, I'm not coming into a space or some land and just doing my
49:22
worst with it or doing my best. Whatever it is, doing what they
49:25
want. It's yeah, it's reading, it's
49:28
understanding and then it's working alongside.
49:32
So I'm sure as you said, you get a whole range of different kids.
49:38
Do you find that now because you are impacting these kids and
49:43
then they're going and taking that out to their communities
49:46
and their to their schools and parents and things?
49:49
Are you finding that you're getting more of the parents and
49:52
teachers starting to make that little switch whereby they've
49:55
probably just come along because they're going, oh, it's a school
49:58
trip off to a farm and then all of a sudden they're realizing
50:01
going, Oh my goodness, I'm thinking about my whole life
50:03
differently. Yeah, yeah, actually even.
50:11
I sent 1 little boy home. Who just had this inordinate
50:15
passion for planting potatoes. I sent him home with a whole
50:19
bucket of potatoes and his mum has just sent photos through of
50:22
their massive potato patch that they've just planted at home.
50:25
Oh really? It's like I didn't realise how
50:28
easy it was to grow your own potatoes.
50:30
And I can't believe you've just sewed this into our new family
50:34
rhythm so that at this time every year we'll plant our own
50:37
family's potatoes. Yeah, absolutely.
50:39
And we get lots of returns. So the teachers, the teachers
50:42
bring the kids up thinking it'll be just a lovely day out on a
50:45
farm. And inevitably they contact us
50:47
six months later and say, I think we need our kids to to
50:50
kind of reconnect with that way of being just to settle them
50:53
into the school year or. Yeah.
50:55
So look, definitely. Look, it's, it's subtle.
50:58
And you know that while they're highly engaged, while they're
51:02
here, they then go back out into the, the, the sea that there's
51:06
that we're all swimming in and the influences are strong.
51:10
But I guess the hope is that you sow a seed strongly and deeply
51:16
enough that you know. It comes back as a.
51:20
Really solid memory for them and when they when they feel that
51:25
yearning, they're called to do something about it and and
51:30
they're not starting at 0, they're starting with a little
51:32
bit of knowledge. Yeah, that's right.
51:34
And it's not just. Necessarily the knowledge, it's
51:36
that feeling of being in tune, feeling of being part of
51:40
something so that when they are out there in that crazy busy
51:43
world and there are disconnected feelings they can recognize.
51:49
Hey, actually I remember, I remember that feeling of being
51:53
so connected. And what did that lifestyle look
51:56
like? What was that entailing?
51:58
And they can hopefully make decisions that may be down the
52:02
line, they may end up being the ones that make the policy makers
52:05
in our future that can make this systemic change.
52:12
I want to touch on the the difficulty that you or we all
52:17
face in terms of this top down approach of management and how
52:24
so our our government systems and the regulations the the, the
52:30
big companies that are set to make lots of money from the way
52:35
things are continuing how? How do you see the?
52:41
Challenge of trying to make change from the top like we've
52:47
seen in Vermont, because presumably they might have been
52:50
up against some big challenges from big companies saying, hey,
52:55
like if everybody starts growing their own food, then all of our
52:59
top line revenue disappears. So we don't want people to learn
53:03
how to grow their own food essentially.
53:05
So how do you see that challenge?
53:11
I play in this space, so I play at multiple altitudes because my
53:14
off farm job has me playing in an advocacy role as well.
53:21
And to be frank, we operate in a system like the Australian, the
53:27
Australian political system doesn't even acknowledge the
53:31
value of this enough to create a food policy.
53:34
There's not there's not an Australian food policy at a
53:36
federal level. And so my sense is that we're
53:42
incredibly lucky to have people like Tammy Jonas, who is sort of
53:48
ferocious in her, in her and relentless in her unwillingness
53:54
to back down. She just keeps going.
53:58
And, you know, she's not inside the tent and she's not speaking
54:02
a language that is always palatable or even understood by
54:06
the policy makers, but she just doesn't stop.
54:08
So you have to be pretty grateful to have those
54:12
individuals out there doing that work.
54:14
Absolutely. But for the vast majority of us,
54:19
I think what it does, when you look at the whole system and all
54:22
of the different altitudes of influence that need to happen in
54:25
order to bring these systemic shifts, it actually overwhelms
54:29
us. I know it certainly overwhelms
54:30
me from time to time, even though I do play at multiple
54:33
tiers. And also, I want to put pins in
54:36
my eyes because I'm often sitting at a table with a whole
54:39
stack of lobbyists that are so well resourced that are given
54:43
all of the research statistics they could ever possibly buy,
54:47
and your voice just gets drowned.
54:49
You become this tiny drop in an ocean with ministers listening
54:54
only to the loudest voices. And so, you know, that's pretty
54:58
daunting and, and pretty disheartening.
55:00
And so my my antidote to that is to plant a seed, to dig a hole,
55:06
to invite a school group to actually see what it looks like
55:09
when it's lived, and to create the alternative that says to
55:13
people, stop the fight. The fight will drain you and
55:17
exhaust you. And instead start the
55:21
alternative and sink your teeth into what is otherwise a
55:25
beautiful, joyful, connected community of like minded people
55:31
that are actually bringing something positive to it.
55:34
And there's still activism in that, and there's still systems
55:37
change in that. It's quieter and it feels less
55:42
shouty, like people aren't shining a light on it and
55:46
holding it up in lights. But it's got a humility and sort
55:51
of a humbleness and a realness to it and a depth to it that is
55:56
actually taking us back. To being the humans.
55:58
That we're designed to be anyway.
56:00
And so I think my answer to that is to step sidestep the
56:07
overwhelm and sidestep the disheartening that requires
56:13
resources that we don't want to be using anyway and actually
56:17
start something small and bump into your neighbor who's doing
56:20
the same thing. So create food swaps and create
56:23
seed swaps and, you know, share the abundance and share the
56:27
skills that you learn and really revel, you know, in a interwoven
56:32
community that is connected to their place and connected to
56:35
each other. And that requires lots of
56:40
bravery to step away from the things that are outwardly
56:44
celebrated and to step into a place that are really quietly,
56:48
but really richly celebrated. And so it's not shiny and you
56:55
know, it's it's not award worthy, but it definitely allows
57:03
you to feel like there's action in the small doing and that we
57:07
all have agency and doesn't matter how rich we are, how
57:12
important our influential, our role, our work role is, how big
57:17
our social media following is, you know, all of that evaporates
57:20
to mean nothing you can just do. And if that is where you place
57:25
your sense of enough, I talk in the future standing and I talk a
57:29
bit more about actually, I do a whole chapter of it in huddle.
57:33
You know what? Does enough look like it it
57:36
probably won't be. The ego.
57:38
Being stroked, and if it is in the first instance, it'll
57:41
actually get tiring. You'll actually still crave more
57:44
because you'll realize that a stroking of the ego and a very
57:49
shiny trophy doesn't actually satisfy the deepest part of you
57:55
that. Wants to be satiated.
57:56
By a deep connection. Yeah, you're right, it's the.
58:01
It's like rippling effect. Having from you and your little
58:07
family, yourself, one person at a time is something I often talk
58:10
about. Just having that one connection,
58:13
building a strong connection with that person and influencing
58:17
out from your little circle. And because there are so many of
58:20
us, if we do all do this, we are essentially voting with our
58:26
feet. There is nothing for any for any
58:29
of these policymakers to do other than follow what the
58:34
people are doing because ultimately they are supposed to
58:37
be working for us in a way and, and representing us.
58:40
And if we show what it's like, and as you say, just get
58:45
involved. Most people think, oh, I just
58:49
need to find my community. We'll start your community.
58:52
Start it. Yeah.
58:52
Find one person. Yeah.
58:54
And they can become. The community, I think it's, so
58:57
I'm quoting Meg Ullman from Artists Family, but I think from
59:01
memory she says this quote comes from David and Sue, David
59:05
Holmgren and Sue Dennett, that you just need three families.
59:09
You need three families to be doing whatever it is you're
59:12
doing that normalizes that behaviour.
59:16
And so you don't need a whole community of 100 people, you
59:19
need three other people that you're on the same page with and
59:23
start to normalise and rebuild what normal looks like, You
59:26
know, cook over open fires and grow your own herbs and, you
59:32
know, celebrate the solstice and the equinox and, you know,
59:36
meditate together as a family. Stargaze cloud.
59:38
Watch all of those like rebuild what normal is and, and suddenly
59:45
your sense of belonging allows you to become truer and stronger
59:49
in who you are. And others are incredibly drawn
59:55
to people who are really comfortable in what it is that
59:58
they're doing. And so that group of three will
1:00:01
grow rapidly whether you choose for it too or not, because you
1:00:06
know if you're finding joy in really simple things and people
1:00:09
can see that and that your sense of belonging and being really
1:00:12
true and honest to who you are. It shines through and people,
1:00:16
people want. That's that's all any of us are
1:00:18
craving for, really. And there we have it, ladies and
1:00:38
gentlemen, What a. Conversation.
1:00:39
I'm sure you'll agree that Jade has this beautiful grounded
1:00:43
power and almost poetry in the way that she speaks of all of
1:00:49
these things. And it's not necessarily
1:00:52
because, well, although she's an incredibly special and and
1:00:56
prominently powerful woman in this space, it's something that
1:01:01
we all have within us that we're able to awaken and, and bring
1:01:05
out a little bit more if we start to change our
1:01:09
understanding. So if you're looking for a place
1:01:13
to go and start this journey and to have a little bit more of a
1:01:17
taste of what Jade has to offer, she's got 2 wonderful books
1:01:21
which she mentioned during the podcast, which you'll find links
1:01:24
for in the description below, along with all of the ability to
1:01:27
follow along with the Black Barn Farm.
1:01:31
If you are in Victoria or Northern Victoria, reach out,
1:01:35
get in touch, see if you can get involved with any of the
1:01:37
programs there. I'm sure there's something for
1:01:39
everybody that you can find there and an ability just to go
1:01:43
in there, soak up the atmosphere and really start to feel that
1:01:47
connection to your land. Now, if you enjoyed today's
1:01:51
episode, please consider living at a review, any sort of
1:01:55
thoughtful comments, if you want to share the episode around to
1:01:58
your friends, if there's somebody that you really think
1:02:01
would resonate with this as well, then share the episode.
1:02:04
It really helps us to find more people, create this community
1:02:08
that we're trying to build and to spread more awareness of this
1:02:13
type of thinking where we're thinking about stewardship,
1:02:16
community and future studying, as Jade beautifully puts it in
1:02:20
the podcast. So again, thank you so much for
1:02:23
your support. I really, really appreciate
1:02:25
everybody listening and jumping into all of these episodes.
1:02:28
It's super meaningful to me to be able to create this for you
1:02:31
guys and to be able to share it and see the reaction that I get
1:02:35
from it, from you listening and these wonderful guests and what
1:02:38
they have to offer. So it's, it's been a brilliant
1:02:41
journey for me so far. We're so close to the end of the
1:02:43
year. So really enjoy as much as you
1:02:46
can of what you're doing at the moment.
1:02:48
Go out there and sit in your land, have a cup of tea and just
1:02:51
have a watch of what is around you and feel grateful for what
1:02:55
we all have. So thank you.
1:02:57
Thanks once again and we'll see you again on the very next
1:03:00
episode. Take care and bye for now.