Latest / The Week in Bible Prophecy / Helping our Brethren | Olivier Melnick

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Helping our Brethren | Olivier Melnick · The Week in Bible Prophecy

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  Speaker 1: The Week in Bible Prophecy, a Prophecy Watchers Podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the podcast today everyone, Mono Gonzalez here with
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  Speaker 2: Olivier Melnich.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome, Olivier, Hi mondol good to be back. Thank you.
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  Speaker 2: We have some good stuff today. We're going to be
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  Speaker 2: talking about Olivia's new book. The title is you know
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  Speaker 2: Somebody Jewish? Now What Answering Fifty Important Questions and Olivia,
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  Speaker 2: I think this is one of the really I would
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  Speaker 2: say it's a very important and practical book because I
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  Speaker 2: think there is so much hesitation on the part of
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  Speaker 2: Christians many times, myself included again, as a new Christian,
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  Speaker 2: I went to Israel and I was learning modern Hebrew,
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  Speaker 2: and I went to talk and tried to share with
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  Speaker 2: some Jews.
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  Speaker 1: But I was scared because I thought, oh, man, clearly, if.
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  Speaker 2: I go and talk to a Jewish person, I had
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  Speaker 2: this idea that they were the ones in the Bible
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  Speaker 2: that were Jeremiah. But yet it really wasn't the case
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  Speaker 2: that these maybe maybe talk about that in the sense
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  Speaker 2: of my correct me. Here I went to Israel, I thought, man,
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  Speaker 2: everybody on the street, it's like they got the Bible memorized.
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  Speaker 2: Everybody's religious. Everybody's going to synagogue every week. I was
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  Speaker 2: reading about it in the Bible. They're at the synagogue.
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  Speaker 1: This must be them, newsflash. Not every Jewish a rabbi. Okay, okay,
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  Speaker 1: but that's that's what that's what I believe. No, I
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  Speaker 1: know a lot of Genta Christians believe that in the church.
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  Speaker 1: They won't verbalize it that way, but they'll like in
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  Speaker 1: their own understanding, the Jewish person they talk, they're talking
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  Speaker 1: to like you just said, they know the Bible, they
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  Speaker 1: know Hebrew, they know the Old Testament, they know everything.
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  Speaker 1: They're gonna just you know, corner them into like I
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  Speaker 1: don't have any answers, so they just like, I'm not
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  Speaker 1: gonna bother them. I don't know, they're very intimidated. So
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  Speaker 1: Genta Christians are, you know, uh, uneducated on on on
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  Speaker 1: the Jewish, Jewish culture, Jewish customs, uh and and and
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  Speaker 1: they're they're intimidated, and they just I'm not going to
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  Speaker 1: say anything to Jewish people. And it's wrong because if
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  Speaker 1: it really what your audience needs to know is that
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  Speaker 1: eighty five, maybe ninety percent of the Jewish people of
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  Speaker 1: the world do not know anything about the Bible, and
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  Speaker 1: and and the vast majority of that number, they do
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  Speaker 1: not care to learn. They just it's not part of
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  Speaker 1: what they cared to to to spend time reading or
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  Speaker 1: or or or learning about. I was, you know, before
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  Speaker 1: I became a believer, I was uh. You know, I
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  Speaker 1: was born in a French Jewish family in the late
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  Speaker 1: fifties and France, and and my family was a Holocaust
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  Speaker 1: surviving family, very agnostic, very secular, you know, to my
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  Speaker 1: mother who lost her dad in Aschwitz. Actually God died,
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  Speaker 1: you know, don't bother me with God? And uh. And
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  Speaker 1: since that was me, and you know, I always joke
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  Speaker 1: about myself, I ways say this. I did not know
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  Speaker 1: the difference between Hankah and Isaiah. And of course Hanakah
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  Speaker 1: is a festival and Isaiah is a prophet. But I
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  Speaker 1: know nothing. But I knew that I was Jewish. That
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  Speaker 1: I knew, But what it meant to me, I'm not
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  Speaker 1: sure I could have told you. I just knew that
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  Speaker 1: I was Jewish. But Christians need they don't need to
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  Speaker 1: be intimidated. But the book that I that I wrote,
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  Speaker 1: this volume one, there's going to be a volume two,
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  Speaker 1: maybe a volume three, because so many questions. It's to
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  Speaker 1: help Christians with simple answers to questions that I've heard
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  Speaker 1: for the last thirty years of my ministry. When I
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  Speaker 1: speak in places and there's a Q and a session,
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  Speaker 1: people go, you know, they ask all those questions. So
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  Speaker 1: I'm hoping that they can be a quick answer to
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  Speaker 1: those questions that come up a lot in their interaction
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  Speaker 1: with their Jewish friends, and it can equip them with
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  Speaker 1: a quick answer. Yeah. Absolutely.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, we're going to get into a lot
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  Speaker 2: of the details of the questions here and some other backgrounds,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, the fifty questions, I don't know. I
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  Speaker 2: think we'll get to all of them, but I just
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  Speaker 2: want to remind everybody a couple of things before we
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  Speaker 2: get into some of the nitty gritty here is you know,
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  Speaker 2: if you are listening to this and pross subscribe button.
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  Speaker 2: you're interested in joining us in Branson, we're going to
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  Speaker 2: be having a conference in December December sixth or eight
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  Speaker 2: Prophecy Conference down there and have twenty different speakers.
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  Speaker 2: You can sign up and if you can't go, we're
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  Speaker 2: also going to be having a live stream, which I'll
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  Speaker 2: up and we are pretty much sold out for that,
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  Speaker 2: you can get information as well at proftswatchers dot com.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: And just to route it out, we have another we
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  Speaker 2: have another trip that I'll be joining Billy Crohn and
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  Speaker 2: Brendan Holdthouse and Ken Michael doing a Church's of Revelation
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  Speaker 2: as well as Footsteps of Paul trips. So you can
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  Speaker 2: Go to the events tab, scroll down to October and
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  Speaker 2: you'll see the link there.
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  Speaker 1: But join us. It'll be a good time.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, Olivier, as we get back to your
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  Speaker 2: book here, what I have find, what I have found,
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  Speaker 2: at least is what you've written here is I don't
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  Speaker 2: want people to think, oh, well, I don't know any
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  Speaker 2: Jewish people, so I don't really know that that book
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  Speaker 2: would be that important to me. I would I would say,
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  Speaker 2: I would add that the things that you've covered here
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  Speaker 2: are they're reminiscent of why again my desire to understand
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  Speaker 2: the Bible as an early Christian. I say often that
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  Speaker 2: if Jesus was Chinese, I would have learned Chinese.
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  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have learned Hebrew.
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  Speaker 2: But we know that Jesus is Jewish, he was in
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  Speaker 2: Jewish culture, he was in a Jewish context of the
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  Speaker 2: first century. And so that's how again, but both you
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  Speaker 2: and I we went to Moody. We went to Moodi
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  Speaker 2: Bible Institute in Jewish Studies. And I did that not
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  Speaker 2: because I was going to work for Chows people, which
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  Speaker 2: you did, and a lot of the students when I
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  Speaker 2: was there, that's what they were going to do. But
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  Speaker 2: I did it because I wanted to learn the Bible.
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  Speaker 2: And so what you've done in the book and answering
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  Speaker 2: these very specific questions about the Jewish culture and contexts
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  Speaker 2: and traditions, it will educate people just in their understanding
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  Speaker 2: of Jesus and the New Testament.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, you know, Mondo, I was first exposed to the
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  Speaker 1: Jewishness of the Bible when I work with Arnold Fruchtenbaum
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  Speaker 1: for six years before I joined Chosen People Ministries, and
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  Speaker 1: he just opened my eyes. And the only thing I
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  Speaker 1: can tell you is that once a Christian starts looking
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  Speaker 1: at the Bible from a Jewish perspective, in the Jewish context.
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  Speaker 1: They can't go back, there's no going back. It starts
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  Speaker 1: to make sense. It's like before they were reading their
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  Speaker 1: Bible in black and white, and all of a sudden,
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  Speaker 1: now it's the same story, but it's full color and
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  Speaker 1: AHD more details. And so that's what I've been doing
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  Speaker 1: for you for the last almost four decades, three decades
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  Speaker 1: at least, is looking at the scripture from a Jewish perspective.
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  Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean that you have to keep kosher,
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  Speaker 1: doesn't mean you have to worry yamaka, it doesn't mean
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  Speaker 1: you have to, you know, go to synagogue. Just understand
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  Speaker 1: the proper context, and it makes so much more sense.
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  Speaker 1: So that's and when you understand the context of the
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  Speaker 1: Bible and you see the Jewish perspective, it also gives
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  Speaker 1: you a deeper understanding of the Jewish people and a
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  Speaker 1: greater desire to reach them with the Gospel. That is
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  Speaker 1: the same for everybody, jew and gentile.
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  Speaker 2: You know, let's bring that up because what I've heard
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  Speaker 2: from you know, from other Christian leaders, we know that
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  Speaker 2: right now there's God has been doing a great work
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  Speaker 2: over the last thirty forty years where you have a
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  Speaker 2: lot of evangelical Christians who love Israel. That's a great thing.
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  Speaker 2: But in their love for Israel and in their desire
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  Speaker 2: to make connections with people in Israel, the Land of Israel,
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  Speaker 2: and other Jewish ministries, they have come to this idea
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  Speaker 2: of what theologians will describe as a dual New Covenant theology. Well,
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  Speaker 2: there's a covenant for Israel and they're going to be saved,
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  Speaker 2: and then there's a covenant through Jesus.
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  Speaker 1: For everybody else.
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  Speaker 2: And so one of the questions that you answer in
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  Speaker 2: the book is does a Jewish person, Well, the here's
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  Speaker 2: the question number twenty five. Do the Jewish people have
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  Speaker 2: to believe in Yeshuah to be saved?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so the quick answer is yes. But this view started,
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  Speaker 1: you know, I think actually the officially started, like in
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  Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties. It was it was a Jewish man
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  Speaker 1: by the name of France Rozensby who wrote this book,
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  Speaker 1: The Star of Redemption, and from that book the idea
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  Speaker 1: of a special covenant for Christians and Jews didn't have
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  Speaker 1: to believe in the same thing, and that was picked
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  Speaker 1: up by some Christians to this. This some very prominent
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  Speaker 1: Christian leaders in America and other places promote that view.
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  Speaker 1: The reason behind it is not a it's not a
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  Speaker 1: bad reason, although it's faulty, but it's not bad. The
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  Speaker 1: reason is we don't want to bother the Jews with
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  Speaker 1: the gospel of the of the Bible because they've been
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  Speaker 1: hurt so much in the name of Christ. Quote end quote.
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  Speaker 1: Let's leave them alone, let's just love on them. And
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  Speaker 1: so it's you know, from a human perspective, I can
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  Speaker 1: understand it. But from a Biblical perspective, from the from
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  Speaker 1: the perspective of the Biblical mandate to take the Gospel
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  Speaker 1: to all people, it just it can't work. I wish
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  Speaker 1: there was a passage in the Bible that would tell
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  Speaker 1: us that the Jews need the Gospel.
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  Speaker 2: Oh wait, oh yeah, oh wait, Romans ten, Romans nine, right, right,
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  Speaker 2: or others.
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  Speaker 1: But the one I like to go to to illustrate
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  Speaker 1: this principle is is the one when Nicodemus goes to
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  Speaker 1: Jesus at night. It's John three one through fifteen. I
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  Speaker 1: call it Nick at night. Yeah, got it Nick at night.
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  Speaker 1: That was my dad joke for the day. And uh,
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  Speaker 1: So Nicodemus goes to Jesus and you recognizes that he
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  Speaker 1: is a teacher, he's a rabbi, and he goes, you
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  Speaker 1: know what, what what do I need to do? I mean,
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  Speaker 1: because Nicodemus thinks, he's like, hey, I'm super Jew. He's
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  Speaker 1: the teacher. He's super Jew. He's like a member of
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  Speaker 1: the san Hedrin. He is a teacher of Israel, he's
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  Speaker 1: a rabbi. I mean, he's everything. And he's going like,
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  Speaker 1: I'm in right, I'm in the club. And Jesus goes, no,
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  Speaker 1: you're born a Jew, but you need to be born
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  Speaker 1: again as a believer. And so Jewish people and everybody,
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  Speaker 1: Jews and Gentiles, only the same gospel. The way I
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  Speaker 1: look at it is that it's the same ingredients. You
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  Speaker 1: don't change, you don't add, you don't take away. It's
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  Speaker 1: the same ingredients. A different recipe when you talk to
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  Speaker 1: Jewish people, but it's the same years. Sure, Jesus, who
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  Speaker 1: is the son of God, who's God in the flesh,
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  Speaker 1: who died for the sins of the world, for the
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  Speaker 1: sins of Israel, that includes the sins of Israel, and
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  Speaker 1: he rose again, and he's going to return and so
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  Speaker 1: that that is what the gospel is all about. Jewish
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  Speaker 1: people need to believe that Jesus died for them as
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  Speaker 1: well as the rest of the world. And actually he's
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  Speaker 1: the Messiah of Israel before everything else. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I mean, you know if you are listening,
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  Speaker 2: and obviously you are if you're hearing this. But you
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  Speaker 2: know John fourteen six. You know, when Jesus says no
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  Speaker 2: one comes to the Father, he doesn't say, well, except
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  Speaker 2: if you're Jewish.
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  Speaker 1: You've got a different way, you know.
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  Speaker 2: Or Peter, he's talking to the Jews, the lead Jewish
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  Speaker 2: leader says, look, salvation has found a no other name
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  Speaker 2: except Jesus, you know. And Acts four twelve. So the
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  Speaker 2: New Testament is very clear. We see Paul in Romans
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  Speaker 2: ten talking about his heart for his brothers. You know
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  Speaker 2: that he goes, I have a heart for them. If
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  Speaker 2: I could give up my salvation, I would, but my
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  Speaker 2: desires for them to be saved, which means that they
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  Speaker 2: weren't unless they had faith and trust.
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  Speaker 1: Well Jesus, right, how about yes? How about Matthew twenty
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  Speaker 1: eight eighteen through twenty the Great Commission, you know, going
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  Speaker 1: into all the world and preach the Gospel to all
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  Speaker 1: people except leave the Jews alone. Yeah, it doesn't say that,
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  Speaker 1: not even close all people. Ye. Yeah, So I think
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  Speaker 1: that this is important.
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  Speaker 2: And again you address this here, you know, but let's
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  Speaker 2: talk about how that works as well, in the sense
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  Speaker 2: that you have in Romans eleven, and you address it
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  Speaker 2: in question twenty seven. Romans eleven twenty five says that
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  Speaker 2: blindness in part has happened right until the fullness of
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  Speaker 2: the Gentiles, and then it says, and then all Israel
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  Speaker 2: will be saved. So you know what, Olivier, if if
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  Speaker 2: Paul says that all Israel's gonna be saved anyway, then
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  Speaker 2: why do I need to even worry about it? If
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  Speaker 2: they're all gonna be saved, and then I don't need
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  Speaker 2: to do it.
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  Speaker 1: I hear that question. I get that question all the time.
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  Speaker 1: That's why I put it in the book. You know,
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  Speaker 1: Gentiles who love Gentile Christians who love Israel, they love
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  Speaker 1: the Jewish people. They don't want to bother them with
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  Speaker 1: the you know, Jesus story, because Jesus is you know,
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  Speaker 1: Jewish people don't like to hear about Jesus. So they
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  Speaker 1: go like, oh, you know it, since all Israel will
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  Speaker 1: be saved. Then let's let's let's just not worry about it.
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  Speaker 1: You know, all Jews will eventually be saved by God. Well,
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  Speaker 1: that's that's connected to the dual Covenant theology. But it's
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  Speaker 1: it's it's unfortunately, it's not speaking of all Israel since
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  Speaker 1: the first Jew. It's speaking of all Israel that will
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  Speaker 1: survive the seven year tribulationstual. It's contextual to the end
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  Speaker 1: of the seven year Tribulation, where the Jewish people who
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  Speaker 1: have survived the tribulation will at that point realize that
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  Speaker 1: they missed the Messiah when he first came, and that
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  Speaker 1: will be a fulfillment of Zachary at twelve ten, when
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  Speaker 1: they will look up and cry for the one who
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  Speaker 1: appears and cry for him as they cried for a
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  Speaker 1: mourning for their only son. And so at that time
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  Speaker 1: the Jewish people will say, but Bashema, do no blessed,
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  Speaker 1: it is you who comes the name of the Lord.
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  Speaker 1: And that very heartfelt, genuine declaration by Israel by surviving
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  Speaker 1: Israel will get them into a place of salvation at
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  Speaker 1: the end of the tribulation. So any Jewish person who
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  Speaker 1: dies without issue before that time is going to be
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  Speaker 1: a spending eternity away from God in the like of fire.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, let's just let's repeat that that any
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  Speaker 2: Jew or gentile that dies without faith, yes in Jesus.
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  Speaker 2: The absolutely between now and any time. I mean, they're
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  Speaker 2: they're they're not going to make it. And so there
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  Speaker 2: isn't this this special side road again, the only road.
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  Speaker 1: Is through Jesus.
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  Speaker 2: And so the key is too that you know, if
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  Speaker 2: we have Jewish friends or family or whatever, and you know,
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  Speaker 2: what do we want.
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  Speaker 1: We don't want them to go in the tribulation. We
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  Speaker 1: don't want them to die in the tribulation.
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  Speaker 2: We'd rather see him be saved now and to be
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  Speaker 2: rescued in the rapture prior to the start.
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  Speaker 1: Of the tribulation, because we know the tribulation is the
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  Speaker 1: worst time in history. Jesus said it. And so why
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  Speaker 1: would we uh, you know, why would we not want that?
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  Speaker 1: But let me ask you this question, because I see this,
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  Speaker 1: what's the.
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  Speaker 2: Role then of a Christian in the sense of, you know,
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  Speaker 2: you share the Gospel, and you have family, you've probably
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  Speaker 2: done this, you could speak from experience. We can't force
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  Speaker 2: or force a Jewish person to believe in Jesus. What
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  Speaker 2: what does that look like in the sense that I mean,
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  Speaker 2: do we just continue every time we see him, we
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  Speaker 2: just beat up on him with the gospel?
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  Speaker 1: How do we approach and this is probably.
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  Speaker 2: Typical for all evangelism, how do we approach a Jewish
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  Speaker 2: person with a level of truth and love but also sensitivity.
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  Speaker 2: Why do we need to be extra sensitive to Jewish people?
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  Speaker 2: Because I do think that we do, we do.
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  Speaker 1: We need to be sensitive, but we can't we can
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  Speaker 1: we need to be sensitive with that compromising yes, and
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  Speaker 1: and and that's that's a you know, it's a difficult
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  Speaker 1: walk to uh to walk because, uh, why do we
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  Speaker 1: need to be sensitive because so much has been done
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  Speaker 1: against the Jewish people over the last two thousand years
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  Speaker 1: plus in the name of the Church and the name
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  Speaker 1: of Christianity, that the name of Christ that you know,
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  Speaker 1: anytime you mentioned any of those names or anything that
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  Speaker 1: will make a Jewish person truth, it's a trigger and go,
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  Speaker 1: no Jesus, no Church, no Cross. And so we try
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  Speaker 1: to stay away from that or try to rewrite a
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  Speaker 1: gospel that's more jew friendly, Jewish friendly, and but that's
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  Speaker 1: that's a failing gospel because it's going to have to
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  Speaker 1: basically uh, you know, take away the key components of
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  Speaker 1: what the Gospel is all about. So we have to
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  Speaker 1: be very sensitive. But we have to to present the
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  Speaker 1: message of salvation. So how do we do it well?
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  Speaker 1: The one way that I look at it is that
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  Speaker 1: Jewish people will tell me all the time, I don't
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  Speaker 1: believe in a New Testament. It's not inspired, okay, And
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  Speaker 1: that's a question, by the way, that I answer in
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  Speaker 1: my book, and I say, you know what, this is
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  Speaker 1: what I would like to do. You don't believe in
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  Speaker 1: a New Testament. I believe it's inspired, but I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to respect your your what you're saying, So I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to put my New Testament aside. I believe in it,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: but I'm not going to mention it. I'm not going
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: to quote it. I'm not going to use it. I
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: know that you hold the Toalu mood talking to your
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Jewish friend here, you hold the Toalue mode very very high.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: And I understand it's it's wisdom and it's historical value.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: So I understand that, but I don't see it as inspired.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: So I would like maybe as a gesture, you put
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: your talmud aside for now, so we don't quote from
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the Talmud, and we don't quote from the New Testament.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Now you and I have one thing in common that's
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: left that we can discuss. It's the Jewish scriptures, which
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: is the Old Testament. And now you can take your
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Jewish friend step by step through the Messianic prophecies of
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: the Old Testament, one by one, and they all paint
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: a picture of a redeemer born of born of a virgin,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: a man, a Jewish man, from the tribe of Judah,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: from the line of David born in Bethlehem, and on
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: and on and on. And when you when you add
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: all those together, it only comes to one possible person,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: the issue of Nazareth. So you can present the gospel
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: from And actually I do have that the back of
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: my book. I have a Gospel of presentation only from
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: the Jewish Scriptures, and I put that in every single
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: one of my books.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so true because I think about when I again,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: when I was taking the one class that I'm sure
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: you had to take the class too, with doctor ry
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Delnick Introduction to Jewish Culture and Communication.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: It's like a standard one.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: And I remember again being I hadn't been a Christian
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: for maybe ten years and so you know, I read
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of Doctor Frucknabaum.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: As well and other things.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: But I remember in the class it was like, okay,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: let's talk about some of these trigger words, like you
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: said cross church using the word congregation rather than church,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: other things like that. And one of the things that
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: he said, which was really striking, he said, I want
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: you to know that for many Jewish people, Hitler was
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: a Christian.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: That's right. And I was like what and then.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: He goes yeah, he goes, I'm just I'm telling this
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: so that you get it in your mindset that they
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: when you come up them with your message of Christianity,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: they're thinking, well, you're asking me to follow now and
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: become the same religion as Hitler. Which I'm like, well, no,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I wasn't asking that. He goes, yeah, But that's what
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: they're thinking.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Do you know what that is? It's because Jewish people,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: and actually mostly Jewish people, they look at the word
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Gentile and Christian and they don't make a difference. A
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Gentile is a Christian of Christians in Gentile. So when
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: I when I teach on this, and you know, I'll
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: have a usually I have a PowerPoint and I show
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: a picture of Hitler, a picture of the Pope and
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: a picture of Billy Graham. Yep, and I go, you know,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: we know Billy Graham was a Christian. The Pope, we're
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: not sure, and less and less okay, and Hitler we're
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: sure he is not. And but to the Jewish mindset,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: they're all Christians because they're all gentiles. And and so
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: that's why it's so important going back to, you know,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: dialoguing with the Jewish person and with anybody really is
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: to be really, really clear on our definitions. Back in
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: the days, I was attending Arnold Frickenbaum's camp in upstate
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: New York. Camp. Sure, shut. I don't know if you've
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: ever been there, you've been there. I know I've never
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: been there. It was like in the early nineties, and
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: we had a day off, so we went to to
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: there was a boat ride in a beautiful place that
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: we all went to take this boat ride, and in
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: front of me was this Hassidic h elderly gentleman Hasidic Jew,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: you know, the black hat and the sad pearls and everything.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: And he was, you know, by himself, and then we're
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: right behind him and I'm going like, you know, how
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: can I engage with him and talk about God or something?
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: But I didn't want to be obnoxious. And we get
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: to talk and I tell him, you know, I'm a
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm a believer. That's why I said, you know,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: I'm a believer in the conversation at some point and
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: he goes, oh, I'm a believer too, And I got
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: so excited, my big smile on my face, and I
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: go like, oh, this is great. When did you become
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: a believer or being a bit my life? I mean,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: he meant he believed in Hashem, in the name in
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: God as a Jew. I meant, I'm a believer in Jesus.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I'm a fuller of Jesus. We use the word believer
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: in two different ways, and we had not clarified that.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: So it was very embarrassing.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Well, and for him, I mean, most of as you
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: as you said earlier, you know, eighty five percent of
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: jewelry around the world is secular or atheist, agnostic, And
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: so for him it's to say he's a believer, right,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: He's one of the fifteen percent.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: He's one of the fifteen percent, and he was a believer.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: I mean I totally get it, but I did not
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: understand what he meant by that. So I'm big on
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: big on definitions when I when I tell people, you know,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: this is what I mean by a Christian, this is
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: even a Jew, this is what I mean. We have
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: to we don't have to agree, we just have to
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: understand that what we have the same understanding of the
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: word we're using. Yeah.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you know, I want to go back to
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: something because in the sense of if you're listening, you know,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: and hopefully this is an interesting thing. Is I remember
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: going way back in again in being in school and
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: thinking about sharing the gospel from the Old Testament, and
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: and so one of the things that we talked about was,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: you know, you have the Romans Road.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: And you know, I came up with this for me.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I'm a pastor, right, so you think, okay, alliteration. So
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: the four s is, you know, we're sinful, we're separated, we.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Have a substitute, and we can have salvation.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: And you think, okay, well, well sinful, you know we
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: have you know, Romans three twenty three. I'll fall in
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: short and you're like, okay, well, in Isaiah, we have
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: the Romans road. We have Isaiah Road and the Isaiah Road.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: We have Isaiah fifty three or six. All we like
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: sheep have gone astray. Okay, we're all sinful. Well, then
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: the next one is separated. Well, for a Christian you
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: could say, well, that's Romans six twenty three.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: The wages of sin is death separation, but the gift
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: of God is eternal life.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Well, what about Isaiah.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Well, Isaiah fifty nine, verse two, all your sins have
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: separated you, and so you think, okay, and then the
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: third one is a substitute. Well, you know we have
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Romans five five eight that you know, God demonstrates his
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: love while we're at sinners. Christ died in our place. Well,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Isaiah fifty three four. He surely bore our our sorrows
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: and our grief and our sin. And then finally salvation Romans.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Tonight we have the Romans Road. If you confess with
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: your mouth, Jesus is Lord, you'll be saved. But in
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Isaiah forty nine and six, talking about the servant, he says,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: I have made you as a light in salvation to
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: the gentiles and to the world, all the nations, but
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: also the gentiles. So you have the Gospels the same
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: it's there, and so we're able to share that.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: And what I found was, you.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Know, and I'm I'm sure you have too, is that
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: when you talk to Jewish people, Look, I'm fine, we'll
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: put that New Testament over here.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Let's just bring out Isaiah. That's right, and and sure
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: that the goods. Isaiah is a very very powerful book. Yes,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I was listening to you as I could preach it.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think you know I was
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: in church for a second, you.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Know, like, well, I want I want people to understand
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: that it's we're not just making this up, that it's
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: it's there. And but one of the things that that
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: you bring up in the book too, and I want
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: to talk about this is that, Okay, you're you're talking
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: to somebody and they say, well, look, uh, you're you're
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: coming to me with your Christian Jesus. I know you
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: worship Jesus as God, and so you have your other deity.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: He's a totally separate god.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Than than than hushsham.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, but I can't I'm Jewish. I can't become a Christian.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: That's a typical objection.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Right, That is, you know, we're born and raised that
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: way as Jews. You know, early on, early on, I
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: knew nothing about I had never opened a Bible in
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: my life. I knew nothing about anything. But I already
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: knew that Jesus was not for the Jews. Why. I
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: don't know when. Why did that come from your parents
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: or was it the culture? Both both from my parents
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: and from the culture in general. It's just like Jews
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: don't believe in Jesus and a story last question. That's
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: the one fact you need to know. That's the one
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: fact you need to No, you don't have to believe
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: in anything, but certainly not in Jesus. Oh wow, So
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: you know, I you know, that's that's the way we're raised.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: And the biggest fear for a Jewish person is that,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: you know, is that.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: The Jewish people, going back a little bit, Jewish people
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: understand or believe that our identity, our unique identity as
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: a people, has preserved us as a people.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: If we lose our identity, we will disappear. That's a
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: big fear. And Jewish people believe that when you become
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: a quote unquote Christian, you lose your Jewish assimilated something
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: and then you will eventually disappear. And the Jews won't
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: exist anymore. And so that's a big deal for Jewish people.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: That's why, you know, become a Christian is like, no,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I can't do that, I can't change my identity. Well,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: the problem is that they confuse two words, is Judaism
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: and Jewishness. When Ruth became a proselyte to Judaism, when
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: she said to Nailmi, your people will be my people,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: and when she decided to put herself under the authority
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: of the Mosaic Law. Before and after in the Book
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: of Ruth, you read that she's called Ruth the Moabidas
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: always from the beginning to the end, before conversion, after
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: all conversion, I don't like that word. Before putting herself
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: under the Mosaic law and after putting herself into it,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: So she did not become something different. She was Ruth,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: the gentile who now wants to follow the Mosaic Law,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: and the people of Naomi become the people of Ruth.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: That's what it means, which is a beautiful story. But
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: when a Jewish person decides to follow Yeshua, the Jewish Messiah,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: they don't lose their Jewishness. When I became a believer
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: forty years ago. I did not have a blood t confusion.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I'm the same Jew in the flesh as I always
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: will be. I'm a Jew who believes that Jesus is
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: the Messiah. And you, as a gentile, don't become a
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Jew or a spiritual Jew, some people will say, by
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: believing in Jesus exactly, and God doesn't make mistakes. You know.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: We have Jews and gentiles, and that's it. So Jewishness
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: is something that you're I was born with the one
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: thing that I can practice or not practice is Judaism.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I asked my dad when I asked him,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: do you it? Does it bother you? I ended up
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: leading both my mom and dad to the Lord before
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: they passed, which was wonderful, a blessing from the Lord,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: but yours prior? I asked my dad, I said, Dad,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: does that bother you? I believe in Jesus, said he goes, well,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: it doesn't bother me. I love you as my son,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: but you're not really Jewish anymore? And I go really,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: And my dad was like the most the boldest atheist
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: you could find, you know, And I said, oh so,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I said, now are you Jewish? And you look at me,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: He goes, of course, I'm Jewish, I said, okay, okay,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: so let me explain something to me. Do you believe
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: in God? You know I don't. Yes, I know you don't.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: So you don't believe in No, not at all. There's
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: no God. God doesn't exist. But you're Jewish. Yes, So
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: your belief in anything or nothing has no bearing on
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: your Jewish idy. He goes, of course not so I
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: look at him, said so why would it have to
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: be the different for me? Why would my belief on
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: something or anything have a bearing on my Jewish identity?
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: He couldn't answer, but he got red in the face
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: and he got very mad. So but the truth hit him. Yes, yes,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: so he hit and he realized, I'm not making any sense.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I don't believe logical, I don't believe in anything, and
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: I'm still Jewish in my identity. So why any belief
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: have any bearing on ethnic identity?
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: It's simple, which is interesting that in one sense he
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: had it right, that he recognized, even though he didn't
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: say it.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: That way, that it was his genetics that determined his
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Jewish rights. But for me, it was my genetics, except
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: that from the moment I believed in Jesus genetics.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: The issue you had a genetic transhuman or something transhumanism
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: going on there.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: And to be honest with you, Mondo, when you sit
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: down with a Jewish person and they're really serious and
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: they're interested and they're open to really learn, it really
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: is not complicated to understand. But we are so brainwashed
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: by our own people and we are also, uh, we're
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: frightened because there is this this idea of it's not
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: as bad as first century Judaism in the day of
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Jesus or even before, but uh, there's this this reality
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: that Jewish people get uh kicked out of the community
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: when they believe in Jesus. Not so much for somebody
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: like me was agnostic and secular. But if you're like
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: conservative Orthodox or ultra Orthodox, people have funerals for their
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: children when they become followers of Jesus. You don't exist
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: to me anymore. You're dead. So there is this you know, ostracism.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: You know you're going to be kicked out of the community. Again,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: not as bad as biblical days, but pretty bad that
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: you just can't get a job in the community. You can't.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: People just don't want to talk to you. So it's
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: a serious, uh it's a real uh valid fear that
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Jewish people have.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's interesting because and talk about this
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: because when I you know, when I went to I
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: went to Israel in two thousand and three with Chosen
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: People in Ministries and we did a experience.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Is Rip with Justin Crown. I'm sure I've read that
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: organization Chosen People Ministries have, Yeah, good mission organization. And
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: you know Justin I imagine, Oh, he's a very very
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: personal personal friend.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Yet so I went with Justin and I didn't know
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: you went with Justin. Yeah, we went there and we
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: had just.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Been out put with you guys as well, big guy.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I don't because he used to go with Justin Ovans also.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so yeah, we had just taken a class on
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: rabbinic theology. It was one of his last classes for
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: his master's program. And anyways, so we go to Israel
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: and so as you know, we're we're out there, we're
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: we have books and we're handing out books along the
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: beach and we're just we're just engaging people with the evangelism.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: And so what I found striking was, again I was
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: this was early in a little earlier in my Christian
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: walk is here, I'm talking to these Jewish person and
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: he's secular, he's agnostic whatever. And but yet he starts saying, oh,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: I can't do that, I can't believe that.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: And I said, well why not. He goes, well, that's
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: not what our rabbis say.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, he defaulted, he didn't believe it, but
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: yet he defaulted back to the rabbinic opinion.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: And he seemed he didn't seem to be pushing me off.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: He really seemed, well, this idea, well, if I don't
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: really know anything, but if I did, I would have
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: to go with what our rabbis have taught. And so,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: you know, talk about that challenge as well.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: It's a shield. And it's like, you know, it's the
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: minute they hear that, you're going to be trying to
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: you know, proselitize, you know, like and convert because Jewish
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: people believe that. And I don't believe that. When a
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Jew follows Jesus, they convert to Christianty, they again convert
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: to something different, they become something different. Well, we are
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: born again. It's true, we do become something different, but
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: not in an ethnic way. Okay, and so Jewish people,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: you know, the minute they hear this, there's a Jesus connection,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: even if they're not religious. You knew, and that we're
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: talking about that earlier. It's like it's they put on
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: the brick wall, the hands, the shield, you know, my
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Rabbi tells me it's not true, or or also, well,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: the Talmud says, well, if you read the taboo, no,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: but I know it says, you know, it's like the
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Talmud is like, you know, it's like the trump card,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: like you know, I'll trump whatever you say with the
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Somewhere in the Talmud it says it's not true. They
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: have never read it, they have no intention of reading it.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: But it's their way of saying, I don't want to
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: hear your story. Yeah, it's it's it's it's challenging.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: And I would say this too that you know, I
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: encourage people that you know, don't be intimidated. Because I
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: was there later in two thousand and eight, and I
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: was doing when I was doing archaeology there and so
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I'm surrounded by all these Jewish students, and you know,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I'm probably two and I'm thirty four years old, and
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: and I had you know, had gone to Booty and
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: so I'm there for the archaeology program and I remember
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: talking to this young kid, he's maybe twenty two, so
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: he's he's there, he's he's excavating with me, and and
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, he's very friendly. So I started
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: talking to him about.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: You know, basically Jesus right you shuwa.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: And so he's like, well, well, no, no, no, no,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm Jewish and so I so I said, okay,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: So well what I have this this this book here,
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: the Tanakh right, the Old Testament? And I said, well,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: will you just just do me a favor here? And
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I said, you don't learn a Hebrew? Can you help
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: me through the Hebrew on this? And so I went
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: to Isaiah fifty three and so I said, can you
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: read this with me? And so he reads it and
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: then he threw it at me and he says, uh,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not reading. I said, no Christian stuff, And I go.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: What do you? What do you mean? This is?
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: This is the tanok this is your own this is
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: your own book. And it was interesting. That's why I
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: want to I say that as encouragement to people that
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: if you can get them simply just to engage with
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: the text, which they don't always do.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: This was in Hebrew. Let him read it in Hebrew.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: He said, he goes, oh Ma, no, that that that
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: just sounds like Jesus.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: And it was interesting that he saw it and himself,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: and I didn't even need to say anything. But you
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: know what you did that day, You planted a seed
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: in his head and he probably went home and hopefully
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: lost sleep over that. It happened to me once more
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: than once. But the one that I already remember very well.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: It's years ago. When I lived in Seattle. I wanted
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: to learn Hebrew before I went to Moody and DTS.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: And so I went to the local synagogue and with
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: a couple of friends from church, we decided to go
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: once a week for like eight weeks or twelve weeks,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: and you were basic conversational Hebrew whatever. So we were
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: meeting with one of the rabbis, and up front I
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: told him, I said, I want you to know that
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I'm Jewish, but I believe you know I told him
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: when I was a Messianic Jewish says, I'm not going
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: to bother you with that, but I want you to
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: know where I'm coming from. I don't want any surprises, okay.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: And and I thought, if you ask questions, you'll know.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: You know, that's what I introduce myself, and I always
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: do that. I want people to know upfront, this is
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: my my worldview, okay, biblical worldview. This is who I am.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: This being said, let's engage into whatever. So we started
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: learning Hebrew. And one day I just couldn't help it.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: I asked him, I said, could you tell me? Uh?
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: And I took him to Isaiah nine six and seven
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: and I said could you and yet, yeah, not an Hebrew,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: just like what you did with your with your friend,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: And could you translate that for me? And he goes sure,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: So he opens it is own Bible, okay, not even
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: me giving him more. He opens it and he reads
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: you know the plaoets, you know, the you know, the
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: wonderful counselor. And he goes, he looks at me and
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: he goes, you're good. Say it yeah, eligible And he goes,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: you're good. I go, what do you mean I'm good?
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: He goes, it's not possible. And I go, what do
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: you mean it's not possible? He goes, this, this is
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: not possible. I'm going did you ever read your Bible before?
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: It's your Bible and Hebrew it's the prophet Isaiah. It
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: says that he's going to be a wonderful counsul wonderful
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: PILLI is only used of God. And he goes and
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: it's speaking of a son of a human being. It's
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: not possible. He got really mad again. I probably planted
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: the seed of that in his head. And sometimes that's
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: all we can do.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: We don't mean to be rude, but we want to
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: direct people to the Word of God because that the
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: you know, the the Word to God is is a
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: living word and it's it's never gonna change, and it's
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: it's it's what we need to do.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: But for that you need to know your Bible. Yeah, exactly.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: And I think what you said earlier too, is is
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: just getting messianic prophecy. I remember, you know, you think
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: about the the fact that they don't know these things.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: You know again, the wonderful counselor Mighty God Elgabor. I mean,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: it's their you know, eternal Father. I mean, it's really amazing, right.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: So I remember at the same time, another guy I
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: was talking to who who Now he's got his He
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: he has a PhD in archaeology. But he also was
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: an ordained rabbi and very nice guy, very nice guy.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: I've been to his house and and but as we're
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: talking at lunch, and I just wouldn't leave him alone
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: in a nice way. And so one of the things
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: that I brought up, I said, well, you know, we
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: were talking about Christianity, and I said, you know, I
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: think Christianity's unfortunate term, like I really think that it
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: should be called New Covenant Judaism.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Oh man. He was offended, and he.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Was offended that I would dare call Christianity Judaism. And
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: I said, well, I mean, you look good. I said,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: well what do you What can you tell me about
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: the New Covenant? And here's a guy that was ordained rabbi,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: but yet he didn't know Jeremi thirty one. And I
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: found it fascinating that that that that was Again I
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: was still I still thought, well, certainly this guy knows.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: This guy's a rabbi, So I then he wasn't secular.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: So I thought, clearly the rabbi knows about Jeremiah thirty one,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: and he didn't have a theology of the New Covenant
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: in his in his training, and so I think for
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: us we just get the scripture in front of him.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: However that takes and the power of God's word, like
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: you said, yeah, and it's you know, you let the word,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: the Word do the work, and the Holy Spirit do
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: the work. And we can only we can expose them
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: to the truth of God and pray that it will
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: make a difference. And I don't know what that man
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: with that rabbi in Seattle, what happened to him? I
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: don't know. You don't know what happened to that that kid.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: But you know, the best we can is to preach
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: the word. Yeah, and you know, I'll just read some
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: of these other questions which you have here.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: You certainly can't get in all of them. You know,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: are the Jewish people guilty of killing Christ? Are Jewish
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: people greedy? Our modern Jewish descendants from the Khazars? What
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: about the Crusades? Was Martin Luther anti Semitic? What about
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: the Holocaust? Why did Jewish people think that Christians are
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: anti Semitic? Why did Jewish people think that the New
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Testament is anti Semitic? You you, how important is the
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Talmud we brought that up to the Jewish people. One
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: of the other ones you have on here is why
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: did Jewish people overwhelmingly vote Democrat?
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Right? Can we talk about that one? Uh? Yeah, we
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: we we we can talk about this. Uh it's a question.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: I get a lot. And what happened is, uh, it's
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: changing a little bit right now, I think. But but
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: you think from October seventh, yes, yeah, yeah, I think
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: we're starting to see a little bit of a change.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: But uh, when the when the Jewish people came in
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds, when it came to the States, when
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, that's the story of my family.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: We moved to France, but uh, you know, fleeing the
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: programs of Russia, the organized riot, they were they they
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: became part of the of the the no. But when
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: it came to the States, they came. The Jewish people
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: they came. They became the founders of the the early
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: unions and and the workers unions and uh uh and
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: then so they they had this this they understood what
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: it meant, what it meant. The Jews people have understood
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: for centuries what it means to be an underdog, what
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: it means to be to create solidarity, right, and so
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: they they had that in there and in the fabric
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: of of of of the secular Jew at least, it's
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: like with the underdog, we have to stick together. And
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: they started some of the unions and and that's economic
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: unity together by the underdogs. I mean, that makes perfect sense.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: But the and there on the other side of that
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: cone is that they see, especially in the last maybe
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: fifty years, they see the right side of politics as
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: being the same as right racist bigot uh uh and
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: and of courcate. This this has been polarized in the
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: last twenty years even more so. But Jews continue to
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: vote Democrat, even though the Democratic Party is not their friend.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Democratic Party of maybe Kennedy, yeah, I would say exactly,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: but that's not today's Democratic Party. And so you think
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: that they're you know, they traditions die hard.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: And again a lot of the my my understanding too
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: is a lot of the American Jews are they're they're not,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: they're not.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Hassidic, they're not super religious.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: If they are, they're they're part of the reform camp,
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: very liberal theologically, stuff like that. So they're not going
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: to be they're not going to be again on the
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: on the conservative, right, I guess in some of the
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: some of the moral ideas even right.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you stole my last line in that chapter,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: because I do say traditions die hard something very similar
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: to that. It's part of a but yeah, the it's
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: part of American Jewry culture, right and and but I
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: think and I'm hoping it can change because really the
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: current left, the Marxist left that is running America right now,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: they're not the friends of Israel, and they're very anti Semitic,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: as we know, they very very much. So, I mean
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: the I don't want to start getting into politics, but
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: they're anti Semitic, they're anti Zionists, which is the same.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: By the way, Uh, that should be another question. I
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: don't I don't think that's for volume two. That's exactly, yep, exactly.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: I mean you have here a few other things here,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: you know, you bring up why do religious shoes never
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: pronounce the name of God? What are the where are
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: the ten Lost Tribes? Can Jewish people know their tribal
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: origin today? Why did Jewish religious use sway for back
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: and forth? And they're praying what is kosher? What's a mazuza?
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, these are just these are just again some
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: very fascinating topics which I think are helpful. That fifty
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: of them, which which is great. You know, in this,
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: in this again, this not written for academics.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no no, it's I don't want it.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: There's there are plenty of people that have way more
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: degrees than me and way way more intelligent than me
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: that can write those books, those textbooks and academic books.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: I want the book to be picked up by somebody
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: in the pews who says, hey, my neighbor is Jewish.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: I love my neighbor. I want him to come to Messiah,
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: but I don't understand how to talk to him or her.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: You know, I need the basics. That's the basics. Okay,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: those but the basics. But yet those questions are they're deep,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: They're like, you know, what do I do with that?
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: And there's some some footnotes and some information if they
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: want to dig deeper, and people can actually all you know,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: get the book. They can get a hold of me
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: and email me and ask me questions that can help
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: them with that. But I want the book to be
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: a tool that people can pick up that's not complicated.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: You know that our society today, because of the Internet
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: and the social networks, we have been conditioned to read
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: less and less and less. So one hundred page book
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: is not a threat to anybody.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: I think you've absolutely succeeded in bringing this down to
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: a proper level, because again the questions are deep, and
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: you have certainly the experience. And as you're out speaking,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: and on that note, you talked about people getting in
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: touch with you. How do people get to learn more
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: about what you're doing, to get in touch with it
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: and even support what you're doing.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: They can find us on Shalem in Messiah dot com
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Shalem in Messiah dot com, which is our website. My
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: blog is there. I put articles on a weekly basis
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: or whenever the news required that I would would put
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: something on uh And we do have the Gospel from
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: the Old Testament on the website. And there is a
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: place where you can connect with us and you know,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: get my daily devotional in your email, get my articles,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: get connected with our video teaching. And also there is
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: a network. Have we mentioned that yet? Yeah, there is
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: a network that I'm part of that is a network
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: of like minded Christians, a Jewish underground underground railroad that
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: we're preparing Christians privately and secretly. Actually, we're preparing Christians
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: to have their home ready to host rescue and shelter
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: and host Jewish people for such a time as this,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: and we're seeing the time approaching very quickly. So they
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: can connect with us on that level as well, and
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: that would start a vetting process for them to become
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: part of the network. And the network is not a ministry.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: We're not raising money. Our ministry raises money. So I
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: can partner with the network and so they can donate
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: at Chelamanmasia dot com. They can connect with us and
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: prey for us. It's it's not an easy ministry, especially
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: right now times we live in it's getting very difficult.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: The church is distancing itself very fast from anything Jewish.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's interesting in saying that, where the
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: church was also very distant in nineteen thirty nine as well,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: and so you know, as much as you know, the
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: motto of that has been happening since the Holis costs
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: is never again, never again, right, and so you have
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: and also never forget. But yet it's interesting that people say, well,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: how could the church do that back in how could
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: they be so blind or even willingly blind. But yet
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: are we seeing that right now we're seeing the trend.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: How can such a cultured, smart people as the Germans
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: do what they did in the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: It's human condition. We're all all sinners, and even within
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: the Church, you know, the Church were all sinners. And
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: there's going to be those who support support Israel and
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: those who don't. And and right now, I think the
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: last fifty years, at least, the church as we haven't
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: done a very good job at teaching the Bible properly,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: or certainly not to our children. And so now we
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: have a very uneducated church that will buy anything that
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: sounds like it's social justice oriented. The Palician causes definitely
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: that narrative that appeals, especially to a newer generation. But
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: we are running the risk right now of committing the
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: same mistakes that happened eighty years ago in the thirties
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: and forties. And that's why it's close to my heart
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: to prepare Christians to open their homes and help the
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Jewish people, because we have a chance to redeem the past.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: And the Christians who support as well, they do exist
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: the Jewish people need to know that, they need to
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: know that there are Christians who love Israel and will
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: give their lives for Jewish people. But it's a bridge
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: that we have to rebuild that is hard to rebuild
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: because Christians do not have a good reputation with the
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Jewish community.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: And it's got better, but there's still some, as we said,
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: there's some rooted, really deeper traditions. Is the network that's
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: being built is that worldwide?
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: For right now we're just in the States. We have
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: people reach reaching out to us worldwide, but we're having
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: a hard time betting amount building it in the US
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: and making it you know, functionable. So for right now,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: just on the US level, but anybody who wants to
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: reach us, we stay touch with them because we want
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: it to be worldwide. That will need to be worldwide. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: And then you know the share with the audience that again,
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: you have this this new book out, but sure what
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: some of the other books that you have.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: I have a total of seven books. Uh, the latest
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: one before that one is the Normalization of anti Semitism
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: and explain how anti Semitism has become in the last
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: few years, something that people don't even pay attention anymore.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: It's become you know, it's it's all. Everything is in
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: place for people not even to react to it and
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: to think it's it's a thing that they can't do
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: anything about or they don't care about. And you know
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: that about the non Jews. And so I'm showing how
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: everything is in place. I have another one, the biggest one,
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: which is End Times anti Semitism, which gives a history
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: of anti Semitism, explaining to the Christians that anti Semitism
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: did not happen in a vacuum. There's a history of
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: anti Semitism that goes back to Biblical days. That's a
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: great book, and I've read it, and so I have
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: all that, and it goes to current events, and I
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: have a devotional, I have a novel, and I have
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: a little book called The Time Is Now. It's steps
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: for Christians to help Jewish people a practical steps. And
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: I think that's everything. And then the new one, the
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: fifty Questions, And I know there's gonna be at least
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: a volume too, because I got about another fifteen questions
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: I've already written. So yeah, I mean this is so great.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: It just reminds me again of the value of understanding
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: again the Jewish nature of the Bible. I mean, that's
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: really I think what you've done here as well as
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: you bring it forward and understanding that some of the
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: other issues that have come up in some of the
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: religious traditions which cause hinderance. But I think the one
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: thing that we know for sure is that Satan absolutely
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: wants all of us not to evangelize Jewish people.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely Satan wants to make sure that the Jewish
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: people do not say Blessed is you comes the name
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: of the Lord at the end of a relation, so
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: that Jesus doesn't come back and he can keep his job.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: But Satan is very creative. He knows the Bible better
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: than you and me, and he knows his theres are numbered,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: so he is at the source at the core of
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: anti Semitism. That is satanic, your rational and satanic. That's
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: part of my definition of anti Semitism, which is so important.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: If you do not understand that anti Semitism is satanic, demonic,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: then you can't find it.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Yep, and just read Revelation twelve and then you'll get
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: your answer. Crystal Claire Olive always good chatting and thank
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: you guys for listening today, and if you haven't subscribed
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: to just remind you go down and hit the subscribe button.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: It'll help get the word out and we'll keep going out.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you for your prayers and for support of what
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: we do here. And Olivia, we'll see you next time. Amen,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Shullum greetings from the Prophecywatchers podcast.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: I'm Karen and I have a great suggestion that will
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  Speaker 1: Have you heard about our monthly magazine, The Prophecy Watcher.
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• 50:42
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