Latest / Book Flood Podcast / April Henry on Writing YA Thrillers & Mysteries (E56)
Transcript
- Tom Nixon: Welcome to the Book Flood podcast. I am your host, Tom Nixon. My guest today is April Henry. April is the author of the forthcoming In the Blood and a bestselling author of YA and adult novels. She is the winner of the Edgar, the Anthony and the Oregon Book Awards. Welcome, April. April Henry: It's great to be here. Tom Nixon: Thank you so very much. start with talking about your career trajectory. How did you get to here? April Henry: Well, I was a huge reader when I was a kid. I didn't feel like my day was complete unless I had at least one book that I was going to read that day. And when I was probably like in fifth or sixth grade, I started writing ⁓ wrote a short story about a six foot tall frog who loves peanut butter. ⁓ I decided Roald Dahl would like to see my story. ⁓ my dad showed me in the front of a book how it has the publisher's address. ⁓ said, why don't you try sending it to him, care of his publisher. ⁓ I sent it off. and it made his way over to England eventually and Roald Dahl sent me back a postcard telling me how much he liked my story and what he didn't say was that he actually took it with him to lunch, showed it to his editor. She had a children's magazine called Puffin Post and she contacted me and asked if she could publish the story and so for a while I was like ⁓ I can be a writer when I get older but ⁓ didn't actually meet a real writer until I was 25. or 29. So as I got older it felt, I mean I was growing up in a little logging town so it wasn't like there's a lot of writers or anybody that didn't work in a mill running around but just thought there was no way that I could be a writer and stopped writing by the time I was in high school. And of course, once you stop doing something, that you're never going to be a writer. I mean, if you want to be a painter and you're not painting, you're not going to be a painter. So I didn't write again until I was about 30. When I got a book from the library and it was, it was bad. I kept reading it thinking it would probably get better and never got any better. And the ending didn't even make sense. The main character was too stupid to live. And I was like, this book was so terrible. and I wasted hours reading it and I felt angry. And then I picked it up and I saw on the spine, it was published by one of the biggest publishers in New York. And I was like, wait a minute, is that all you need to do to get published is write a bad book? Because I am totally capable of that. So I started writing and I wrote a book and I started sending it out to agents. I was sure that I would get an agent right away, but I got ⁓ 107 rejection letters, started writing it. second book. I loved that book. I knew in my heart it was good and I got 53 more rejection letters but the 54th lady called from me from New York City. She said I love your book. I want to be your agent. She started sending it out to editors because that's the next step to find an editor by it but we just got really nice rejection letters. Then I wrote a third book and it didn't even get nice rejection letters. Then I wrote a fourth book called Circles of Confusion and it sold in two days and a two book deal to Harper Collins. So people were like, ⁓ you're an overnight success. And I'm like that overnight success took eight or nine years. So I have been writing ever since and then Probably maybe in ⁓ I a story about overseas boot camps in the New York Times. ⁓ Actually, think a bunch of us saw that story because I've seen other books that were clearly inspired that. ⁓ Like Todd Strauss, think a book out called Boot Camp. But I was like, it was just so crazy because this kid was walking to school and... Tom Nixon: Mm. April Henry: Two men pulled over in a white van and they didn't say anything just got out of the van And threw him struggling into the back of the van and then he's in the back of the van and there's nothing back there But some mesh between him and the front seats and he's like well, obviously These two are serial killers and i'm going to die now But they had been hired by his parents to kidnap him which was perfectly legal because no kid's going to be like yeah I want to go live in a boot camp in costa rica for four years. So I started writing that and when I finished it, thought it was an adult book with a teen main character. ⁓ my agent, Wendy Schmalz, represents a ton of YA authors and she said, no, you've written a YA book. ⁓ that's how it sold. And I realized, man, I like writing for teenagers. And so I kept doing it. ⁓ over time, I just stopped writing for adults and now I only write for teens. Tom Nixon: is your writing process like? April Henry: I'm starting a new book now so I can tell you exactly what it's like. I'll have an idea. Like I don't know if you saw the documentary Three Identical Strangers. It was a very odd situation where this adoption agency, if they got identical twins, they would split them up and not tell the parents. so this guy went to college in the late 80s and people were like, ⁓ David, I thought you weren't coming back. He's like, no, my name is Ray. I don't know who you guys are. And they were like, David, you're so funny. And they were hugging him. eventually put him in touch with the real David. And it turns out they were identical twins. ⁓ was a lot of media coverage. And then it turned out there was a third one. They were identical triplets. ⁓ it came out that the adoption agency seemed to be running its little scientific experiment, which was, what if took three identical children? Tom Nixon: Hmm. April Henry: That have the same genetic makeup and put them in completely different families So they as part of the adoption agreement you had to agree that your child would be studied But they never told them why so they would come by and like do tests of intelligence and physical ability I thought What ⁓ somebody doing that now that they were trying to figure out? What's the best way to raise children and there's a girl being raised kind of in a cult? cult-like feeling where they're trying to make the most ideal human being and there's another one of her on in the outside world being raised by in more of a regular situation. So I start brainstorming, I start doing research, I start reading books, so I've been reading books on like cults or what's it, I'm probably gonna talk to some identical twins. It'd be great if I could find somebody who was separated at birth, but that's probably hard to do. But I know there's been like documentaries and research studies because it's perfect. If you have identical twins raised in different situations, then that a lot of things are controlled and you can just see what it's like. So, and then I start thinking about, what are the turning points gonna be? What's the resolution gonna be? if you do something with identical Tom Nixon: Mm. April Henry: You know there's gonna be a point where they're each one is dressed as the other and failing to Persuade people that they you know they're gonna act strangely to the people around them I mean people aren't gonna buy them a hundred percent or it's gonna be a high-wire act to do that so So I start, kind of research at the same time as I'm writing. I think of like, what are the turning points? And now I have to do the hard part, which is the actual writing. can't keep just brainstorming anymore. I have to, I'm gonna start small. I'm gonna say like, okay, you just have to write for 10 minutes without stopping. Because otherwise I start picking at it and we start. Tom Nixon: Mm. April Henry: critiquing it and thinking it's not very good. So you need to figure out a way to kick out that voice in your head that will be useful later when you're editing it, but isn't useful when you're writing it. Tom Nixon: So you won the Edgar Award. How did that change your career? Or did it? April Henry: Well, I've been around for a long time, ⁓ that probably, ⁓ don't know that that changed it, but it's, ⁓ is an award that even people who aren't readers may have heard of, unlike the Anthony or some of the other things. ⁓ in the New York Times, because I've been on the Times list, those are two things that kind of civilians or whatever you want to call them would recognize. I feel like it gave me more of an entree with other writers ⁓ and I got to get up and like before I was ever published I met James Lee Burke and I interviewed him for Literary Magazine and I told him that I was trying to get an agent and he said, you're a winner, I can tell. And I used to keep that cassette tape in my car and when I was driving to work I re-rined it seven seconds just so I can hear him say, you're a winner. can tell. So I got up there and accepted the award and said that James Leiborke was right. It just took like 30 years. ⁓ daughter, Alifair, who's also a thriller writer, ⁓ there. And she up later and handed me the phone, her phone, and she had called her dad. ⁓ And was on the line. So ⁓ he me. So Tom Nixon: Thanks April Henry: Yeah, it was just like a dream day. I've been to the awards before in 2018. I had a book called The Girl I Used to Be and they said, and the winner is the girl and I was half out of my seat and they said in the blue coat that I had to sit back down. It was Monica Hesse had won for her book. We just happened to have similar titles. Tom Nixon: Mm. Well, if someone else happens to win, Monica has not a bad person to lose out to for sure. April Henry: Yes, exactly. Tom Nixon: What do you see as the importance of having diverse characters in your books? April Henry: It is vital. It's also like, so I'm a white older lady, so. I try to vary up my cast as much as possible, not only in terms of race, but of gay characters, maybe non-binary character, a trans character. I feel it's important to have people that come from different backgrounds, like either one's rich, one's poor, and I try anything that I am not. to do as much research as possible. I've written two books with a third coming out about a blind girl and I do so much research to make sure those are accurate because if you're in a minority, it's an insult to read a book where... ⁓ Tom Nixon: Mm. April Henry: they get things wrong about how something works for you. And then a whole readership is gonna think they understand blindness, for example. I think ⁓ also maybe things ⁓ I don't feel like it's my place to write from the main point of view of the main character being like maybe a Hispanic person who grew up with parents that were migrant workers. ⁓ ⁓ speak Spanish. ⁓ don't think I would ever understand or do. that justice so but I do feel like you need the the secondary characters are more diverse I mean I feel comfortable writing from guys point of view because I'm just trying to be one guy but I just want to make sure that I don't get things wrong Tom Nixon: Mm. Excellent. you have a book coming out. Tell us about In the Blood. Where did the idea come from? ⁓ lovely. April Henry: There's my beautiful book oddly this girl on the cover Looks like a twin to someone I went to high school with I actually sent her the photo of the cover and it's like this looks like you I was thinking ⁓ done a lot of genetic genealogy, which is using genealogy to ⁓ to build your family tree So and I found a few secrets ⁓ a couple of ⁓ cousins that were born on the wrong side of the blanket or whatever they want to call it, know, something with a non-paternity is not what is on paper. I thought, what if there was a girl who's adopted, she's always ⁓ about adoptive parents, and she and her best friend Elle have like spun all these fantasies about they were like, and when ⁓ she 18, she has an early birthday. I originally was going to make it that she lied, but ⁓ the in the DNA community were like, no, let's please make her be the age you could be, which was 18. So she, her friend gives her an Ancestry DNA kit. She sends it off and then she starts trying to figure out who her parents were. I wanted to make it that it was difficult. So I talked to Leo Larkin who is a DNA expert who runs something called the DNA Geek Blog. I was like, how can I make it that it's harder? And she said, well, if both parents came ⁓ immigrant families, they might not have as many matches in the DNA. And she's eventually going to figure out that she is the daughter of this serial killer known as the Portland Phantom. I also read books by people who either grew up and found out their father was a serial killer or were adopted and found out their dad, one the dad ⁓ was a killer and another was found out her mom. was Diane Downs who killed her children. So, and then she was pregnant and gave up the baby. girl went into a tailspin when she realized who her mother was. ⁓ I wanted to explore what's nature, what's nurture, ⁓ I guess is similar to what I'm gonna do in the next book, but what are you born with and what are you responsible for? Tom Nixon: So how have ⁓ early readers and reviewers responded to In the Blood? April Henry: Okay, so I try, oh, it is so hard. I currently will look at Goodreads every day, because it's got probably the highest rating I've ever gotten in a book, but at this point, it's at 4.25, which is really good. And so I will go and look at that. I won't look at the actual reviews underneath. And then the... Tom Nixon: know, because that way lies danger for sure. April Henry: Yes, yes, you get somebody just being mean or something. And then I've gotten reviews in Booklist and ⁓ School Journal and Kirkus. ⁓ They're good. ⁓ And few of them say because there is a dark side to it, you know, like because she has a good family and good friends. ⁓ So they like the serial killer stuff. Is it is too much? But then I think it was School Library Journal was like maybe it's just enough. I tried not to be graphic. You could get away with so much if you just let the reader fill in the blank. Like I learned that about swearing. If you say he swore the reader is going to use whatever word they think the character would have used. And maybe you're going to think of a different word when you're 12 than when you're 17. If with violence, you can just show... Tom Nixon: Mm. April Henry: you can just cut away from it because people are going to fill it in with what works for them. when you watch, ⁓ just rewatched the first season of Stranger Things, ⁓ you can see the monsters very much, they're way more scary. Once I could see them, I'm kind of like, ⁓ it's like alien but mixed with, you know, it stops being when it was just in my head, ⁓ was much scarier. So I use that a lot in books. You don't need to get into a lot of graphic detail readers will fill in the blank. Tom Nixon: I like that. are you working on now? April Henry: It's that book about, that's kind of like three identical strangers meets brave new world. And just, ⁓ I'm to maybe have a finished draft by the beginning of the school year. I do a lot of school visits, so summer is my fallow period. Although I actually got asked to do... Tom Nixon: Mm. April Henry: to a summer camp. like, a summer camp? That would be cool. ⁓ done that. That would be interesting if it works out. Tom Nixon: Yeah, it would. is the summer camp at? ⁓ April Henry: It's in Tennessee, so from sixth to ninth grade. parents were poor and only thing I know about summer camps is from books. ⁓ I imagine what it's like and I have no, I could probably write a whole thing where they go to summer camp, but I would just be stealing all the different things I've read. I've never been to summer camp myself. Tom Nixon: would most people be surprised to learn about your writing or about your books? April Henry: I'm actually very cheerful and I never worry about anything. don't I kind Teflon like I can I have looked autopsy photos and while I was eating cookies, you know, it doesn't it doesn't really affect me. So ⁓ that might be something And then some people are surprised that I do Brazilian to do in my free time because I'm very much an outlier. I'm Tom Nixon: Mm. April Henry: I'm too old and I'm a lady, but I really like it. Since I work at home, my Jiu Jitsu partners are like my work buddies. They're the people who notice you got a new haircut or whatever. Tom Nixon: You mentioned doing presentations. Is that something you'd like to do? April Henry: I love to do school visits. It's exhausting. It's a high wire act because If you have 500 kids maybe one of them is acting up or something is going on you have to decide I was never a teacher so ⁓ desk stare is not very good You know, I just kind of look more grumpy but like what do I do ⁓ this? How do I stare at them and hope that they'll stop? Do I just start looking at the other side of the room because some people will actually kind of get a little bit more misbehaving and then doing so many visits I've noticed how different schools are in terms of their resources that kids are given. Like Iowa is some kind of free choice state now so you can your kid can go to any school if it's in this doesn't have to be in their district. If you could drive them there they could go there. ⁓ every it's like a death spiral. those schools that are in the inner city and are crumbling and the kids are fighting and they ask if you can yell because the mic hasn't worked for a couple of years, which is something I've been actually asked to do, then the next year, then the parents are desperately going to figure out how to drive their kid to a better, nicer school with equipment that works. And then you're just left with the even poorer children or even a more unstable thing. And they're just the quality of education. is all over the map. also speak at private schools sometimes and Title I. So I was at a private school last year where the librarian said she had to explain to the students that everyone had a private jet. Some people couldn't even afford to fly commercial. ⁓ then I'm contrasting that where, ⁓ know, like maybe the week before I was at a school where 90 % of those students ⁓ for free and reduced lunch ⁓ they, you know, a lot My kids are coming bad places and are really vulnerable. So I just try to, you don't really know what kids are dealing with at home. Tom Nixon: Hmm. Is there a book or a series of books from your childhood that still resonates with you? April Henry: You know, I have to admit, I still don't really like Roald Dahl. He was a very complicated figure and there was some really ugly sides to him. There's a new play out, I guess, with John Lithgow playing Roald Dahl and channeling some of his horribleness. But he was really nice to me as a kid. So those books speak to me. I still have some old books from my childhood like Betty Kavanaugh. just because fell into them and they made me love reading. I still have probably a whole shelf full of books from my childhood. Sometimes that I picked up, not necessarily that I kept, but that I saw them again in a thrift store and I was like, ⁓ my gosh. Like I, when I was a kid, like maybe early teens or pre-teens, I read this guy named Samuel Stalabarger who wrote these stirring that there was a couple that were made with a hoe. that famous actor, Ty Powell? No, he had a sword. Anyway, was a lot of sword stuff and I just remember that drama, the books were very dramatic and I loved drama. So of those still, Prince Foxes and Captain from Castile and I'm the only person living because those books were very popular in the 40s. ⁓ Tom Nixon: Mm. What are you reading now? April Henry: I just finished reading that book of Finding My Way Home, Finding Home, it was in the Newberry. It's about a girl who's grown up in a cult and her mother takes her out of the cult and she really wants to get back. I'm also reading, I have multiple books usually going, I'm reading Ruby Falls by Jen Phillips which is an adult book, got three starred reviews about... these people during the depression and there's a falls that underground that is based on a real falls and it's a tourist attraction only there's it's like a locked room murder only it's underground in the caverns and then I have Megan Lally's What we did to survive she writes she's just new ⁓ in the thriller world ⁓ first book became an instant New York Times bestseller I don't think she realizes ⁓ doesn't usually happen for people so this is her third about a cruise ship gone wrong and I definitely I looked at it today because like I'm like should I try and add that to the pile of other books that I'm reading. Tom Nixon: want to thank you so much for being on the podcast today. For our listeners and watchers, ⁓ remember to like, subscribe, and share. And again, thank you so much, April. April Henry: So thank you.