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Brazil’s Lula Has Brain Surgery · Bloomberg Intelligence

0:02
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
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Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
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0:23
Speaker 3: The other really amazing story that we've heard of the
0:27
Speaker 3: last twelve hours is what happened over in Brazil.
0:29
Speaker 4: So President Louis.
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Speaker 3: Lula underwent emergency brain surgery and is now awake and
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Speaker 3: conscious in the ICU. Apparently he'll stay in the hospital
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Speaker 3: for about forty eight hours. We want to get more
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Speaker 3: on this on the ground with Danielle Carvallo, Bloomberg Government reporter.
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Speaker 4: Can you just walk us through the chain.
0:47
Speaker 3: Of events that has happened and let us here and
0:49
Speaker 3: kind of what this does to the government.
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Speaker 5: Hey, are you well, Lula? In October Lula was at
0:58
Speaker 5: tom and he fell and hit his head. After that
1:02
Speaker 5: he was submitted to some exams. He was doing well,
1:07
Speaker 5: but last night, by the end of the day he
1:09
Speaker 5: started with some headache and he decided to go to
1:13
Speaker 5: the hospital here in Brazilia, the capital uh And after
1:17
Speaker 5: some exams, they found there was a hemorrhage, and decided
1:21
Speaker 5: to transfer him to Saint Paulo where you have a
1:24
Speaker 5: better uh better hospitals there. Uh and well, and he
1:29
Speaker 5: underwent surgery in in the morning they announced much more
1:35
Speaker 5: complex surgery. Uh tranny outo meat. But then and at
1:39
Speaker 5: a presser they explained it was trapping where they used
1:43
Speaker 5: a drain to to drain the blood that was between
1:47
Speaker 5: the skull and the and the brain, and doctors saying
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Speaker 5: he is now well.
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Speaker 1: Uh.
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Speaker 5: He will spend forty eight hours in the intensive care units. Uh,
1:58
Speaker 5: but he will spend the whole week at the hospital
2:00
Speaker 5: just for precausion.
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Speaker 1: Was there an actual transfer of power to his vice
2:05
Speaker 1: president during this process.
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Speaker 5: No, Gerald WelCom and his vice president, he was in
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Speaker 5: San Paolo. He would have some agendas there, but he
2:14
Speaker 5: traveled back to Brazilia and he will replace Lula and
2:19
Speaker 5: house in Slovakia's Prime minister Robert Fikeel who's here today
2:23
Speaker 5: but as a vice president, So Lula, there was no
2:26
Speaker 5: transfer of power yet.
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Speaker 3: When nevertheless, when you see these headlines, it does come
2:31
Speaker 3: as quite a shocker. What is the political backdrop aac
2:34
Speaker 3: and I'm a backdrop of Brazil right now?
2:38
Speaker 5: Well, Lula seventh is a seventh nine year old man.
2:42
Speaker 5: He will be eighty one and twenty six, he will
2:46
Speaker 5: when he intends to run again for Present for a
2:48
Speaker 5: fourth term. And what happened, what is happening hah Now,
2:53
Speaker 5: what happened in October and what happened today brings us
2:58
Speaker 5: a big question mark on his polytical future. Will he
3:01
Speaker 5: be able to run for present in two years? And
3:04
Speaker 5: age became something very difficult in politics, especially after what
3:10
Speaker 5: happened to Joe Biden in the United States. And there
3:13
Speaker 5: isn't a clear successor for Lula in Brazil. There are
3:17
Speaker 5: some people that brings the name of his finance minister
3:20
Speaker 5: Fernanda daddy. And actually he is having some leading uh
3:26
Speaker 5: in the country. Two weeks ago he was the star
3:30
Speaker 5: of address on TV to announce suspending cut package to
3:35
Speaker 5: the nation.
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Speaker 1: All right, Danielle, thanks so much, Yeah, thank you so much, Danielle.
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Speaker 1: We appreciate getting your reporting there, Danielle Carvallo. He's a
3:43
Speaker 1: government reporter for Bloomberg News in our Brazilia, euro which
3:47
Speaker 1: I forgot was the capital of Brazil. I would have
3:51
Speaker 1: just said South Powell or something.
3:54
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4:12
Speaker 1: All right, let's get back to boy the other news
4:15
Speaker 1: story that it certainly transfixed, I think not only New
4:17
Speaker 1: York City, but kind of the country here and knows
4:19
Speaker 1: that the murder of that senior executive of United Healthcare.
4:23
Speaker 1: And now we have the arrest in charging of the suspect.
4:27
Speaker 1: Hel Michelle Cortez Joints is here, Bloomberg, Senior editor covering healthcare. Michelle,
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Speaker 1: We've seen all the news, We've seen the tape. We
4:36
Speaker 1: now have a murder suspect. How about from the other perspective,
4:39
Speaker 1: how about the perspective of the company. How's the company
4:43
Speaker 1: been reacting to this news again, the tragic loss of
4:45
Speaker 1: one of their senior executives. What have we heard from
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Speaker 1: United Healthcare?
4:49
Speaker 6: Well, it's absolutely been a crisis for the company. It's
4:52
Speaker 6: a crisis not only in terms of the individual person. Right,
4:55
Speaker 6: they have lost a senior executive, so a person that
4:59
Speaker 6: many of them were co those two. Also, they have
5:01
Speaker 6: a hole for the company that they need to fill.
5:04
Speaker 6: But also there's this huge ground swell of animosity towards
5:08
Speaker 6: the industry and they have to grapple with that as well. Honestly,
5:12
Speaker 6: what we have heard from the beginning is that they
5:15
Speaker 6: were shocked when this happened. I don't think this was
5:16
Speaker 6: on anyone's being go card for twenty twenty four and
5:20
Speaker 6: they just didn't know how to react initially when this happened.
5:24
Speaker 6: The first things that we saw was increased security at
5:28
Speaker 6: the United Health campuses in Washington and Minneapolis and in
5:31
Speaker 6: New York, and we have seen them taking executives off
5:34
Speaker 6: of their web pages that type of thing. But in
5:37
Speaker 6: terms of actual communication to the outside world, there's been
5:40
Speaker 6: exceedingly little from United Health, and even internally, some of
5:44
Speaker 6: the reports that we have seen have essentially downplayed the
5:48
Speaker 6: situation and told employees to not really pay attention to
5:51
Speaker 6: social media, to not take this outpouring to heart. They
5:55
Speaker 6: do have an awful lot of work that's going to
5:57
Speaker 6: have to come. They have not yet done it, and
5:59
Speaker 6: it's going to be interest to see how it plays out.
6:02
Speaker 6: There's really not an awful lot that they can do
6:04
Speaker 6: at this point, given how much antagonism, animosity, and straight
6:09
Speaker 6: up hatred towards the company from people who have suffered
6:14
Speaker 6: in terms of not being able to get the kind
6:15
Speaker 6: of health care and coverage.
6:18
Speaker 1: That they've needed.
6:19
Speaker 6: I think that it's been really shocking for many people, which.
6:22
Speaker 3: Is so surprising because you would have thought when you
6:24
Speaker 3: have a tragic event like this, it would be the
6:26
Speaker 3: opposite that you'd see an outpouring of support, right, and
6:29
Speaker 3: that's just not been the case. How has it reflected
6:33
Speaker 3: in United health but also just in other companies as well,
6:37
Speaker 3: like there was a debacle with Anthem last week and
6:40
Speaker 3: paying and enthusiologists.
6:43
Speaker 6: Right, Absolutely, this is not something that's specific to United
6:46
Speaker 6: Healthcare at all. It is something that comes from the
6:49
Speaker 6: health insurance industry.
6:52
Speaker 1: Obviously.
6:52
Speaker 6: The way these companies operate they do when you talk
6:55
Speaker 6: to them about it. What they're doing is they're trying
6:57
Speaker 6: to make healthcare more efficient, more afordable, making it possible
7:01
Speaker 6: for people to get access to the care that they need.
7:04
Speaker 6: But in fact, the way that a lot of them
7:05
Speaker 6: make money is by reducing the expenditures for healthcare insurance.
7:10
Speaker 6: And then again, not specific to g United Healthcare. We've
7:14
Speaker 6: seen other companies dial back there in person appearances. They've
7:18
Speaker 6: had executives pull back events that were going to be
7:20
Speaker 6: public that we're closed, moved online. Everyone is reevaluating their
7:25
Speaker 6: security at this point, and the way that they move
7:27
Speaker 6: forward at this point is just uncertain. How you can
7:31
Speaker 6: actually rectify something that is systemic to the industry. This
7:36
Speaker 6: is how it operates. So they're going to need to
7:38
Speaker 6: rethink and how they go forward. I don't think that
7:40
Speaker 6: they know yet. They're still trying to figure that out.
7:43
Speaker 1: Red headline just crossing the Bloomberg Terminal, Saudi's piff PIF
7:47
Speaker 1: said to near deal to invest in PGA Tour Enterprises.
7:51
Speaker 1: So we'll have some more reporting on that for our
7:53
Speaker 1: golf fans out there. And Michelle, you know, I think
7:56
Speaker 1: when this news first broke, we said, you know, the
7:58
Speaker 1: headlines were United Healthcare CEO, but we came to learn
8:03
Speaker 1: later that it was a CEO of a subsidiary, not
8:05
Speaker 1: the overall global CEO. And some people were saying, how
8:08
Speaker 1: could a CEO not have security, But again, he wasn't
8:12
Speaker 1: the CEO of the entire corporation, just of a subsidiary.
8:16
Speaker 1: I guess they have to rethink some of their security
8:18
Speaker 1: for some of their mid level executives and leadership as well.
8:24
Speaker 7: Right.
8:24
Speaker 6: Well, let's so, Brian Thompson was the CEO OFED of
8:30
Speaker 6: United Healthcare, which is not United Health Group, right, It
8:34
Speaker 6: is the insurance subsidiary which is the biggest of United
8:37
Speaker 6: health If you actually line that up with other SMP companies,
8:40
Speaker 6: it is one of the biggest. It would be independently.
8:43
Speaker 6: Is kind of like, you know, the economy of California
8:46
Speaker 6: or Texas is a massive, massive company. He made ten
8:51
Speaker 6: million dollars a year. I mean, this is not a small,
8:54
Speaker 6: low level person. It is shocking that he didn't have
8:56
Speaker 6: any kind of security. Many people don't have security. I mean,
9:00
Speaker 6: you can drive up to his house. It is I
9:03
Speaker 6: used to just live down the road from them in Minneapolis.
9:05
Speaker 6: It is a lovely, lovely home, but certainly not gated,
9:09
Speaker 6: no restrictions around it. And I don't think that people
9:14
Speaker 6: in this industry realized the animosity. And again, no one
9:18
Speaker 6: thought that this could have ever possibly happened, and so,
9:21
Speaker 6: you know, not maybe low level employees, certainly, I think
9:25
Speaker 6: everybody who's affiliated with the industry at this point is
9:27
Speaker 6: rethinking their own security, their own you know, morality, their
9:32
Speaker 6: own you know, how they're working forward with what they
9:34
Speaker 6: do professionally, but in terms of security, this is an
9:38
Speaker 6: area where everybody is reaching out now. They absolutely have
9:40
Speaker 6: to get this square.
9:41
Speaker 3: Away, Michelle, what could be changes that the industry could
9:45
Speaker 3: take to sort of mitigate this animosity like that? I'm
9:49
Speaker 3: sure we could list a lot of issues, but what's
9:51
Speaker 3: like a main issue that needs to be really looked
9:54
Speaker 3: at and corrected.
9:57
Speaker 1: It's such a good question.
9:59
Speaker 6: It really does go to the fundamentals of the industry itself.
10:02
Speaker 6: The way that it works is insurance companies put up
10:05
Speaker 6: hurdles to make sure that people are getting the appropriate
10:08
Speaker 6: care and only the care that they need. And sometimes
10:13
Speaker 6: the argument is is that they're going too far, and
10:15
Speaker 6: we're seeing these reports coming out on social media, people
10:18
Speaker 6: talking about how they haven't had access to care, how
10:21
Speaker 6: they have been turned down for policies for their kids,
10:25
Speaker 6: their family members, their loved ones. There was a huge
10:28
Speaker 6: outrage about how United Health particularly was using artificial intelligence
10:33
Speaker 6: to turn down insurance requests, and then they make people
10:38
Speaker 6: and doctors jump through these hoops over and over in
10:41
Speaker 6: order to get access to these kind of what many
10:45
Speaker 6: people would say, arguably are things that should be covered
10:48
Speaker 6: and it is just part of the process. Now, we
10:50
Speaker 6: could certainly see some type of a reconsideration of that.
10:54
Speaker 6: I don't know that they would want to be doing
10:55
Speaker 6: anything like that, and this current moment, right you don't
10:58
Speaker 6: want to actually respond in any way that might be
11:01
Speaker 6: giving kind of fuel to the fire of the people
11:05
Speaker 6: who are coming out against the industry. So I would imagine,
11:09
Speaker 6: you know, in the weeks and months to come, we
11:11
Speaker 6: might see some kind of reaction in terms of prior authorizations,
11:15
Speaker 6: in terms of denials, in terms of appeals, in terms
11:18
Speaker 6: of these boards that they have that are set up
11:20
Speaker 6: to actually evaluate whether people should be covered or not.
11:23
Speaker 6: All of those things I'm sure are going to be
11:25
Speaker 6: under consideration.
11:26
Speaker 1: Hi, Michelle, thank you so much. We appreciate that. Michelle Cortez,
11:29
Speaker 1: a senior editor covering in the healthcare for Bloomberg News,
11:32
Speaker 1: coming to us from our Washington, DC bureau. You put
11:36
Speaker 1: up the stock of United Healthcare. You NH is the ticker.
11:42
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
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11:57
Speaker 3: It was the news that we heard all around the
11:59
Speaker 3: world weekend. Of course, Asad's fall in Syria just putting
12:03
Speaker 3: the world in the Middle East into much more chaos,
12:06
Speaker 3: and we wanted to break down what to expect, what
12:08
Speaker 3: some key smilestones a hard to look at with Ned Lazarus,
12:11
Speaker 3: Associate Professor of International Affairs over George Washington University, what's
12:16
Speaker 3: the TikTok? What's a timeline that you're going to be
12:18
Speaker 3: watching to judge the state of Syria?
12:22
Speaker 7: Well, Syria is multiple things happening at once. It's been
12:28
Speaker 7: multiple wars within a war. There are things we have
12:32
Speaker 7: to watch. One is the establishment of post war governance.
12:36
Speaker 7: Are the rebels led by the faction Hayataharrira Sham able
12:41
Speaker 7: to establish a functioning transitional government. They have nominated a
12:46
Speaker 7: prime minister who was governing their sort of self administered
12:50
Speaker 7: zone in northwestern Syria before, Ahamad al Bashir is his name.
12:56
Speaker 7: They have ordered the state offices to continue functioning. They've
13:03
Speaker 7: asked the government to continue working. They have also crucially
13:08
Speaker 7: declared amnesty for you know, regular soldiers of the regime,
13:15
Speaker 7: meaning they're not going to arrest people who were fighters
13:19
Speaker 7: in the Syrian army, in the regime's army, and that's
13:23
Speaker 7: that's an important declaration of intentions, though they have said
13:27
Speaker 7: that they will absolutely attempt to prosecute leaders, both military
13:33
Speaker 7: and political, who were responsible for the horrific atrocities committed
13:40
Speaker 7: by that regime. That's one one area to watch, But
13:43
Speaker 7: there's also a lot of military action continuing in Syria.
13:47
Speaker 7: Israel has undertaken several hundred attacks attempting to destroy essentially
13:57
Speaker 7: the arsenal of the Syrian army. Today, the Israeli Navy
14:01
Speaker 7: and Air Force destroyed the Syrian naval fleet in the
14:04
Speaker 7: port city of Latakia, and chemical weapons facilities, research facilities,
14:12
Speaker 7: weapons storage facilities are being bombed from the air all
14:16
Speaker 7: across the country by the Israelis. There's also another war
14:22
Speaker 7: within a war in Syria, which is in the north
14:27
Speaker 7: where Turkish forces and Turkish backed Syrian forces are fighting
14:32
Speaker 7: Kurdish Syrian forces, and that has been going on for
14:36
Speaker 7: a while, but that is also escalating right now. And finally,
14:42
Speaker 7: we have our own deployment of US troops in the
14:46
Speaker 7: desert in central eastern Syria where they are have been
14:51
Speaker 7: stationed for years to try and prevent the re emergence
14:54
Speaker 7: of ISIS. Now, when you have a total breakdown of
14:58
Speaker 7: order like this, that's fertile ground group like ISIS to reconstitute,
15:03
Speaker 7: takeover territory, et cetera. So the US forces right now,
15:06
Speaker 7: the administration has said we're going to keep them there
15:09
Speaker 7: in order to try and prevent ISIS from reconstituting.
15:12
Speaker 1: What do you think the do we have any indication
15:14
Speaker 1: what the income incoming Trump administration, what its policy may
15:18
Speaker 1: be to Syria Syria, given what we've just seen over
15:21
Speaker 1: the last few days.
15:22
Speaker 7: Well, I guess the best indicator for a Trump policy
15:26
Speaker 7: is his Twitter account, right or truth social His post
15:32
Speaker 7: on this issue was that this is none of our
15:37
Speaker 7: you know, this is not our our business and we
15:39
Speaker 7: should stay out. And I imagine that he's aware that
15:44
Speaker 7: we have nine hundred troops there and that you know
15:49
Speaker 7: that ISIS was a problem for us and you know,
15:52
Speaker 7: probably would be again. But that was that was his
15:56
Speaker 7: statement on it. Another important dementia, and you know it
16:01
Speaker 7: was Russian forces that Russian and Iranian forces and has
16:05
Speaker 7: Belah of course that helped asad uh, you know, retake power.
16:10
Speaker 3: Uh.
16:11
Speaker 7: Just a few years ago, and Russia had cultivated Syria
16:15
Speaker 7: as its strategic base in the Middle East. It had
16:19
Speaker 7: you know, ships in the port of Latakia on the Mediterranean,
16:23
Speaker 7: and you know, good amount of air air force at
16:28
Speaker 7: station in Steria for a time. But the Russian ships
16:31
Speaker 7: are reported to have left the port of Tartus in Syria.
16:38
Speaker 7: So that is another thing to watch, is whether Russia
16:43
Speaker 7: makes an effort to retain its foothold and influence in
16:46
Speaker 7: the country or whether because it's so preoccupied with the
16:49
Speaker 7: Ukrainian War, it has really you know, it's ready to
16:53
Speaker 7: see that.
16:55
Speaker 4: All right, Well, we appreciate that. Thank you very much
16:57
Speaker 4: for the update.
16:58
Speaker 3: D Lazar, Associate Professor International Affairs at George Washington University.
17:02
Speaker 3: And in the markets, Paull, it's just obviously, how do
17:04
Speaker 3: you price to you a political risk? Like no one
17:06
Speaker 3: had on a bingo card that this was going to
17:08
Speaker 3: happen on the geopaul sector, So like how do you
17:10
Speaker 3: price it? And in some ways many analysts say, we've
17:13
Speaker 3: just become very complacent in how he priced to you
17:15
Speaker 3: apolitical risk.
17:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you see that in the oil market, which
17:18
Speaker 1: I know you follow closer to you know, Brent still
17:19
Speaker 1: at seventy two dollars a barrow. Didn't really see any
17:22
Speaker 1: major spike here, so we'll keep an eye on that.
17:27
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Speaker 3: the amazing c suite outside of Bloomberg Intelligence and get
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Speaker 3: their take on the real economy and what's happening with
17:58
Speaker 3: their business. More enough to have one of them with
18:01
Speaker 3: us right now. So, for those of you who don't know,
18:02
Speaker 3: Glencore is a metal behemoth. They basically produce and trade
18:08
Speaker 3: all the metals that everyone needs in daily life, whether
18:11
Speaker 3: you're looking at a transition metal like lithium or something
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Speaker 3: straight up like copper. They also have a recycling business
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Speaker 3: that maybe lesser known. They like to recycle end of
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Speaker 3: life Electronics, lithium. I own batteries and other critical metal
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Speaker 3: containing products which will be key by the way in
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Speaker 3: the energy transition, as we just run out of the
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Speaker 3: stuff in the ground. So we're lucky to be joined
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Speaker 3: now by Kunal Sinha. He's a global head of recycling
18:36
Speaker 3: over at Glencore.
18:38
Speaker 4: Kunall, thanks for joining us. How has the Glencore.
18:41
Speaker 3: Recycling business changed over the last sort of few years?
18:44
Speaker 4: Like where were you guys? Where are you guys now?
18:49
Speaker 8: Thanks Alex, thanks for having me. Yeah, I think it's
18:52
Speaker 8: a less known part of Glencore. I would say over
18:55
Speaker 8: the last four or five years, it's changed in a
18:57
Speaker 8: few different ways. Increasingly the recycling, if you think about
19:02
Speaker 8: recycling traditionally, is a very linear sort of value chain
19:05
Speaker 8: activity like everything else used to be. I think it's
19:09
Speaker 8: headed more towards a circularity sort of concept, so it
19:13
Speaker 8: will still be recycling, but the focus is how do
19:15
Speaker 8: you put those critical metals that you recycle back in
19:18
Speaker 8: the loop into the battery supply chain or the auto
19:21
Speaker 8: supply chain, or copper back into the green manufacturing supply chain.
19:25
Speaker 8: So that's sort of one change and then the other changes.
19:28
Speaker 8: We are pretty pretty substantially present in the copper value chain.
19:33
Speaker 8: With we recycle things like end of live electronics. We've
19:36
Speaker 8: been doing that for since the eighties. We've been recycling
19:39
Speaker 8: lithium and batteries for twenty years. I think the other
19:41
Speaker 8: thing that changed is we've made a lot of investments
19:43
Speaker 8: in the lithium and battery space, especially recognizing the need
19:48
Speaker 8: to recover lithium, the need to handle large battery packs,
19:53
Speaker 8: the need to address the fact that there will be
19:55
Speaker 8: a lot of giga factories they already are and will
19:57
Speaker 8: be that will produce a lot of scraps. So just
20:00
Speaker 8: keeping an eye on the industry and how it's changing
20:02
Speaker 8: and hence how our recycling business needs to change to address.
20:07
Speaker 8: And then some of the more near term recent areas
20:11
Speaker 8: that we are adapting to, our recycling of solar panels,
20:15
Speaker 8: recycling of electric motors from electric vehicles. So we're always
20:19
Speaker 8: keeping an eye on the next big pile of post
20:23
Speaker 8: consumer stuff that comes along, and we'll make sure we
20:27
Speaker 8: stay ahead of the game in terms of getting it
20:29
Speaker 8: and recycling it.
20:30
Speaker 1: Can you give us a sensitive to what extent kind
20:33
Speaker 1: of just industry wide recycling is impacting the supply of
20:38
Speaker 1: the metals we need and use.
20:41
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think it varies by metals. If you look
20:43
Speaker 8: at copper, which is a bell weather metal and very
20:46
Speaker 8: heavily talked about, no matter whether you look at the
20:49
Speaker 8: green aspect or energy transition or just simple AI which
20:52
Speaker 8: will need a whole huge amount of electricity, and hence
20:55
Speaker 8: the great copper is always in need. If you look
20:57
Speaker 8: at copper, you know, it's roughly a little less than
21:00
Speaker 8: thirty million terms a year of defined supply twenty eight
21:03
Speaker 8: twenty nine. Of that already, about six to seven million
21:06
Speaker 8: every year comes from recycled sources, so it's not insignificant.
21:11
Speaker 8: When you look at some of the other medals like nickel, cobordi, lithium,
21:14
Speaker 8: they're not as far along as copper, but there had
21:17
Speaker 8: been a lot of posh so those metals, the recycled
21:21
Speaker 8: portion is coming, especially in Comora, there's a lot of
21:23
Speaker 8: recycled supply now. So it's you know, it's a function
21:26
Speaker 8: of how important the metal is, how much post consumed
21:30
Speaker 8: post manufacturing feedstock is on the market to be able
21:34
Speaker 8: to be recycled. So copper just benefits from being a
21:37
Speaker 8: very mature and old sort of if I can call
21:40
Speaker 8: it met some of the newer medals will get there with.
21:44
Speaker 3: Time gonell is recycling for Glencore a profitable bulb business.
21:51
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's a good question for us. Yes, it's a
21:54
Speaker 8: profitable business. We've we've shared some numbers in the past.
21:57
Speaker 8: I mean through the cycle we make somewhere between two
22:01
Speaker 8: hunred and fifty million ABIDUK contribution from our recycling business,
22:04
Speaker 8: which is recycling a whole bunch of these things. Of course,
22:08
Speaker 8: compared to glend Courzoni, that's a very small fraction. But
22:11
Speaker 8: if you look at any independent recycling company, I think,
22:14
Speaker 8: you know, you'd be hard pressed to find too many
22:17
Speaker 8: with that level of profitability as a pure play recycling company.
22:21
Speaker 1: Any reason to believe that the recycling I guess trends
22:26
Speaker 1: in the metals business broad they'd find. Will that change
22:29
Speaker 1: with a new administration coming in? Do you believe?
22:34
Speaker 7: Don't think so.
22:34
Speaker 8: I mean we've been looking at recycling for in North
22:37
Speaker 8: America over the last you know, thirty forty years, so
22:41
Speaker 8: we've been through a lot of changes in administration, policies,
22:45
Speaker 8: lens and then the good thing about recycling is it's
22:48
Speaker 8: truly an evergreen business. It's sort of it hits some
22:52
Speaker 8: good policy points on both sides of the aisle. I
22:55
Speaker 8: think if you look at where policy priorities seem to
22:57
Speaker 8: be headed, it's a profitable business. It will create a
23:00
Speaker 8: domestic source of critical minerals, It creates domestic manufacturing jobs.
23:06
Speaker 8: We have discussed the importance of things like semiconductor and
23:11
Speaker 8: electronics manufacturing the go to national security issues. So there's
23:16
Speaker 8: a lot of tailments for recycling that I think would
23:20
Speaker 8: align well with where policy making is headed in the US.
23:25
Speaker 3: In just thirty seconds, can you tell me what kind
23:27
Speaker 3: of price you might need for copper for a cycling
23:29
Speaker 3: to be profitable and if that's lower than the actual
23:32
Speaker 3: mind cost?
23:35
Speaker 8: So funny enough, I mean the actual copper price doesn't
23:38
Speaker 8: really matter so much. It does matter when you're buying
23:42
Speaker 8: that's a very high grade copper scrap. We tend to
23:45
Speaker 8: not do a lot of that. There is this phenomena
23:48
Speaker 8: where when the copper price spikes, there is this notion
23:52
Speaker 8: that some secondary supply will come into the market. And
23:54
Speaker 8: that's just because there's a lot of the art sitting
23:57
Speaker 8: a lot of material with that price, it's opportunistic to
23:59
Speaker 8: now I'll sell it, right, But it behaves more like
24:02
Speaker 8: copper concentrates. If I can drop attlee where it's more
24:06
Speaker 8: the tcsrcs that matter on the metal price, all right.
24:09
Speaker 4: Elliate there canal, Thanks lack Canal.
24:11
Speaker 3: Sin Hat's go behind a recycling over at Blankworm.
24:14
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