Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Breaking the Age Bias: Investing in the Next Generation of Financial Planners with Kate Bailey and Ryan Milne

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Breaking the Age Bias: Investing in the Next Generation of Financial Planners with Kate Bailey and Ryan Milne · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: And today on the Financial Planner Life podcast is one of my favorite subjects trainee financial planners kicking ass.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: So today I'm joined by Ryan Milne, who is a financial planner who went through the M&G Academy and had huge success.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: He was one of the most successful people to go through the academy and he is sitting under a practice called Cape Bailey Financial Planning, and we are joined also by kate bailey, and together they talk about why they are a dynamic duo, why they're both doing so well, why we should invest in the next generation of younger financial planners, what energy and effort needs to go into the training and the mentoring and the development.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Kate talks to us also about succession planning and why taking on somebody like Ryan is a big part of her being able to step back from the business and hyper-focus on helping other people within the business grow their career.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy the episode, ryan.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Kate, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: How are you both?
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Good, thank you.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: Very well, thank you.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: Good to be here.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Fantastic.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: It's been a while and we've been trying to do this recording for quite some time.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I obviously had the move to Dubai in between and became super duper busy but really pleased to get on the financial plan life with you today and talk about both your careers.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: What you're doing at the moment in the space of bringing new people on cake, growing a business underneath mng, taking advantage of that mng academy, ryan, of course, I've spoken to you over linkedin.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: You're very active on there and you've been a huge success within the mng academy.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I, for one, love the m Academy.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I got involved very early on and did an episode with Tom speaking about it, and I think it was such a welcome addition because of things like lead generation and clear-cut career framework.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: The ability to do the qualifications whilst you're still currently in a different career I thought was quite novel as well.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: So many months on, hearing people going through the process and being a success and then coming into the business that's sitting in M&G.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's a great time to bring you up and talk about this part of the journey, right?
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: So, hey, why don't you just quickly introduce yourself, who you are, what you do?
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Just a little brief background from your career.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: I'm Kate Bailey, owner and founder of Kate Bailey Financial Planning.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I came through my career, like you just mentioned, in bank assurance.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I worked for several big banks in wealth management and then I joined Prudential Financial Planning back in 2012.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: And then I was given the golden opportunity in 2020 to launch Self-Employed.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: So I took that leap of faith quite a scary time amongst a global pandemic.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know, let's set up a business and go Self-Employed.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: So I did, and it was, thankfully, the best thing I've ever done.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: And then, four years on, here we are.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Well, fantastic.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: And Ryan, brief background what were you doing before you joined the MNG Academy?
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, I'm Ryan.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: I'm an associate partner at Cape Bailey Financial Planning.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so before joining the MNG Academy, I actually worked at MNG for about six years.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: So I came through the old Prudentials apprenticeship program straight from school.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: I was sort of talked into it by my dad.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: My dad worked in the complaints department, so he sort of suggested that it would be a good route to go down and, from there, really worked my way through various different roles before deciding in 2016 or 17 I think it was after being at Prudential and deciding to take Leap of Faith and joining MNG's first cohort through their academy program and, yeah, having a conversation with Kateate during that and, as kate said a minute ago, here we are a couple years down the line and we're um, we're flying fantastic right and just for to give people a bit of an insight into that journey.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Then within the academy how long did that academy process take and what did you actually cover when you were in it?
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so the initial stage I didn't have any qualifications, so the initial 12 month stage was about getting your diploma, and so that period of time was fully focused on studying and following a rigorous study schedule and sitting one exam every two months and at the end of it, achieving, obviously, a diploma in regulated financial planning.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: I was lucky that I didn't fail any of the exams, so I never actually fell behind.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: So that's either down to luck or pure preparation, I'm not really sure, but, um, but yeah, so 12 months it took to get the diploma and then after that, a couple of months doing some work on sort of people skills, communication skills, just going through how to talk to a real life client with a real life problem, and then after a couple of months of doing that and joining as a full-time advisor.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: So I would say, from start to finish, I think the process um to actually becoming an advisor and going out was probably around the 15 month mark and then from there mng sort of support you for for a few years.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: So the next 12 months is all about you obtaining competent advisor status.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Um, obviously, trying to write some business, get yourself, building a bit of momentum before dropping off the academy, which will be in March next year.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: So it's a sort of three to four year programme, and the closer you get to the end, I'd sort of say maybe the less support they probably feel that you need.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: So yeah, so that's sort of how it works.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Great Realistic timescale, then, of a couple of years.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: We need to be up and running, fully self-sufficient and away from the, the support, if you like, from the academy, which which sounds to me completely realistic.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: So, kate, you met ryan then did you during the academy process, is that right?
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: ryan and I knew each other from his role within Prudential Financial Planning.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: So I'd had several conversations with Ryan work related and then I knew he was going on the academy and I knew he was looking for an opportunity anywhere in the UK.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: And when I heard that Ryan was looking for an opportunity, I thought this is my opportunity.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: My immediate thought was the guy lives in Scotland, how's that going to work?
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I'm in Wakefield in West Yorkshire.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: So I was then told that Ryan will relocate anywhere in the UK for the right opportunity.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: So Ryan and I had a a conversation.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: I suggested he come to Wakefield to see the sights of Wakefield before he make a decision.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: So I did give him a get out clause.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he came down.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Thankfully the sun shone that weekend and he just decided yep, wakefield's gonna be my new home.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: So we had some really great discussions and we decided, yeah, let's go for this.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: So I took Ryan on as an employed administrator while he was finishing his academy training and that meant that I could start to give him pieces of work, that he could gain some experience of how to put a case together, how to write a case, and that coincided with his training on the final step of the academy.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: So it worked really, really well, and that's how this beautiful relationship was then formed.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Fantastic.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: So, ryan, leap of faith.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Really, moving from Scotland to Wakefield, I think I've come across lots of people that would move anywhere for an entry-level opportunity in financial planning.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: So I don't think you're alone there.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: It's a shame, isn't it, that people just can't find these opportunities on their doorstep.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: There just isn't enough opportunity for people in their own cities or hometowns.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: They're out there sort of almost a bum fight, isn't it for those opportunities, and it's a shame that people have to get up and go and look elsewhere in the country for an entry-level role.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Hey, you started, ryan, off then as an administrator on an employed basis and in your head, was it an administrative role or was it like a trainee financial planner pathway?
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Definitely the latter.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: So I was in a position where I knew that Ryan was going to have it was about six or seven weeks of training and I knew he was going to have to leave his existing employed role with Prudential at the time and literally have no income, because that's part of the academy, where you have to commit to doing the training.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: And if he would have been going down a self-employed role or whatever, he wouldn't have been able to work for somebody.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: So I said to him why don't you come and work for me?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I will employ you, I will provide you with a salary that gives you some financial security.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: And in that time he moved to Wakefield.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I had the luxury of a full-time administrator.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Well, I say full-time, he did have to commit to all the training sessions as part of the academy.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: That said, it wasn't Monday to Friday for the full working day.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: So I had the luxury of administrator.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Ryan had the luxury of learning the job from an online training course but actually doing the job at the same time.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: So we started going out and seeing clients together as well at that time, so that he got a feel for the entire job and in that time also relocated as well so, ryan, when we talk about administration, just give our listeners a bit of a breakdown of what it was you were actually doing as an administrator so I think I think, um, it sort of felt I mean I mean it felt more we were doing more than I think probably what a normal administrator would do.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: Um, I had the luxury of having experienced some of the systems that m&G use and stuff prior to starting in the business.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: But it would be sort of simple things to start with, maybe updating some sort of business sheets, that sort of thing, and then as time went on and as the weeks progressed, we started to get into some more complicated stuff again, to some more maybe complicated stuff, some some stuff that an advisor would do.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: So the likes of um maybe updating a fact, find um, uh, chasing some business or maybe phoning up providers and and finding out where information is, um helping draft suitability reports.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: So, in effect, we, we were doing, both of us, we were doing quite a lot of the the advisor role and prior to becoming an advisor, but without sort of overstepping the line of of what, what you're able to do, and without the qualification, it sort of stood me in really good stead and and obviously it was beneficial, I think, for both of us, because Kate was able to pass stuff over me that I was able to then do and I was also learning on the job, so I always talk about how beneficial it is doing something that you're going to be doing anyway and maybe the next few months time, rather than just learning about it.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: So, whilst the sort of two months that we had learning about body language, asking open questions, finding out soft facts from clients, you don't actually learn properly how to update a fact-finding for a real-life client as an example, which I think was super, super important, and I think it certainly stood me in really good stead then for starting full-time as a qualified financial advisor.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you had the training from M&G, from the academy.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: A lot of that was online Structured training, soft skills things.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: You should be doing that type of thing, but it was theory, essentially.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, experience in putting that into action, alongside Kate, during client meetings, prospecting fact finds, all that type of thing.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: So, 100%, you know we learn by doing.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: I certainly do.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: I like to throw myself into the deep end.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: It's the quickest way to learn, isn't it?
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I think having somebody next to you who's a mentor that can guide you and show you and answer those questions quickly is the most efficient way to learn as well, because you can very quickly nip bad habits in the burn.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: You can learn from your mistakes, but you can also pick up on the things that Kate's doing really well in those meetings.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: There's nothing better than using those wonderful things we have ears to be picking up on amazing things that people do around us.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I'm always listening to those people around me.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: If I walk into a business and someone says to me oh, that's the top dog, they're the best, I'm like right, I'm going to push on the end of their desk for a couple of days.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: I'm going to listen to why they are.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: You know what are they saying, how are they doing it, how do they structure their day?
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: I'm really keen to learn from the best people.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: There's no point in reinventing the wheel is there.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: You may as well listen to those people.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: So I guess the in the you know that environment mng has created where you can continue to get the quality you know, get the qualification, get the training, but actually embed yourself into somebody's practice.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Employed or self-employed is is hugely beneficial.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: But, kate, you know you, you obviously had the option of self-employed or employed with ryan.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: You didn't to take him on, and why was it so important that you took him on employed?
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: For me it was probably more about Ryan, more so than myself.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Ryan joined me at the age of 25.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: And, like I said, he was relocating.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: So I knew he was going to be in a position whereby he wanted to get on the property ladder and also eventually start a family as well.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: So for me to say to him go self-employed, that for him would have been just pure instability.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: So he certainly wouldn't have bought his first home, which he did last year, probably would have had to start thinking about family much later down the line.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: And now he's done all of that in the space of a year.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: So it gives him absolute freedom and security.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: From my point of view it was a case of I'm looking for somebody that is going to be completely embedded within my business.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I wanted somebody to learn from me, have the same values, the same passion, the same goals as me and drive this business forward.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: So again, complete toss up employed, self-employed.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: But it was primarily financial stability for Ryan Didn't really make much difference for me, but we've made sure that there's an absolute career path.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Ryan knows exactly what his trajectory is and we sat down and discussed that in a lot of detail at the time.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: So, starting as an employee, the next step will be shareholder, eventually director, and then the plan is that this business will become Ryan's, because this is part of my exit strategy.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: So that's what we're working on together to make sure that for me, for Ryan, for the business and ultimately, for the clients, this is the best possible outcome for everybody.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Well, fantastic.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: So, ryan, you literally walked into a ready-made career with a clear-cut career framework in place, or pathway, if you like, which I like that to use that term it's what term we use at hoxton is pathway, because it is ways.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: There's nothing worse joining a business where there isn't a clear pathway to.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Um, where you want to get to within a business right whether that's own a business, be self-employed, earn more money, improve your skills, whatever it might be when companies don't have a clear career framework, it's a bloody nightmare.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: People don't know where they're going.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: So having that in place has been fantastic.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Kate, have you taken that career framework?
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Was that something that you were given?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Did you build it yourself as you've been going on the journey with Ryan?
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Is it something that you're now implementing into your business and thinking hang on a second, I could probably scale this.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I could probably take on another 10 people through the M&G industry.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in answer to your question, I was completely blind.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I was going in blind.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: We have worked through everything together.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: We've been finding our feet together very much so Four years ago I was absolutely intentional that nobody would work within my business typical control freak so I have found my way by asking questions and learning as I go.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: This has been a massive experiment for Ryan and I and a big risk for both of us.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: So what it's allowed us to do is get in a really good position now and everything that I've learned along the way.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I've now thought well, actually it's going really well, why not replicate it?
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Um, and as a result, I have now brought somebody else through the academy and we have another trainee advisor starting with us on monday it happened and going on the exact same path as Ryan.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: So within the space of four years, I've gone from just me and to me and another advisor and actually, as of next week, two advisors.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: So as of next year, our new training advisor will also be up and running and out seeing clients as well.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Fantastic.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Has that sort of fitted in with your own personal career goals as well, kate?
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: To step back from advice and to be more of a business owner and manager?
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah again, if you'd have asked me four years ago, I would probably have given you completely different answers to what I'm giving you today.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I would probably have given you completely different answers to what I'm giving you today.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: But as time's gone on, it's made me realize that I've done this for 24 years and the only constant in this business is change, and the regulation and the rules are very, very stressful, and I've absolutely loved every minute of this journey.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: But what I've also realized is that I have something to give.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I have a phenomenal opportunity, and just because of the business that I've built.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: So what it allows me to do is give two young people and who knows potentially more and watch this myth the opportunity to have a phenomenal, successful career such as I've had, but also an opportunity for me to start doing something different, because for 24 years I've been going out seeing clients, giving advice, writing reports and doing everything else in between.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: What I can do now is adapt more of an operational role within a business and actually run a business from the background, but also impart my knowledge, my experience, my skill set onto newer advisors.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: And going back to a point you mentioned earlier about bringing Ryan in literally myself and Ryan in a meeting in front of a client with a mirror image of each other.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: So we do the same things, we have the same values and we pride ourselves on being quite uniform in our approach, and that also will be passed on and to our new advisor as of next week that's fantastic.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: So proper quality mentoring then, and guidance, that's what it's all about?
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: you know we've, ryan.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: How old are you?
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I'm 26 now 26, so under 30.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I had a couple of people recently comment on a post of um I think it was chris's actually, and I got involved in it and he was talking about how younger advisors under the age of 30.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: So I think I commented there was a distinct lack of advisors under the age of 30 and a lot of people commented and said well, they don't have the relevant life experience.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: How can you have somebody in their 20s sat in front of somebody you know he's going through retirement or maybe a divorce?
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: They've got no experience of any.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Why would they make good financial planners and wouldn't it be risky?
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Someone even said their brains haven't developed until they're in their 30s.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: What's your view on?
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: How has your experience been?
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, as I say, I joined the profession Well, not the profession, I joined the industry at 17.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: So I came into the financial services industry at 17 through the apprenticeship program and have had eight years' worth of experience within the industry.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: So I think when people talk about life experience and stuff, it's a really interesting point and I do think there's sort of an age where you need to build up that life experience.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: So maybe if you're going into an academy program at 18, maybe you've not had enough work and life experience to truly become a financial planner.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: But when you've been through that process for maybe five, six, seven, eight years, you've been in the industry and you've learned from people, you've networked, you've built professional sort of network with people within the industry on social media channels and through work, I think you do have the relevant life experience.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, I read a stat the other day and it was relevant to the post that you were mentioning that I think 6%, 5% or 6% of all financial planners in the UK are under 30.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: There's only 6% and something like 0.5% or 1% or something under 25%, which is staggering.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: I find that staggering and I go out to client meetings and, yes, I feel like at the start I was probably conscious that when I was chapping somebody's door, they were maybe opening the door and thinking this guy looks like he's just come from school and he's come here to talk about my pension.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: So I like to get the elephant in the room out there quickly and I like to mention to people that I am young, I'm fully qualified, I've been through the relevant exams, I've got eight years within the industry.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Things like platforms like Vouch4 is a really good tool to show people that you've done really good work for other people as well.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, I think that the life and work experience point is important, but I think if you're willing, you're motivated.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: But I think if you're willing, you're motivated, you're enthusiastic, you're passionate about the industry as well.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: Age is just a number.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Hey, you've hired somebody under 25.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: I think there's 130 people under 25.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: That's financial advisors, right?
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: So you're obviously championing younger advisors.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: You saw something in Ryan.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Were you nervous about hiring a younger advisor at all?
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Not at all.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I was 21 when I started giving financial advice.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: So I've been there and I've done that, and I echo exactly what Ryan said.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I'd go out and knock on somebody's door and you know, going back all those years, the stigma of a financial advisor was very much an old guy in a pinstripe suit and and I rock up, um, and I really really pride myself on breaking that mold, um, and every day, since I'm like I'm not some old guy, I am me and I think being a younger female in the industry all those years ago, well, let's face it, I don't think it's done me any harm, has it?
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: So, with Ryan being young, I saw in him what I saw in myself all those years ago young, passionate, determined, driven and a long-term goal and a long-term vision.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And if I'd have taken somebody on at the same age as me or potentially older, well, what if that person wanted to retire next year or the year after as well?
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: So where does that leave me?
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: I'm, then, back at square one.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: So I wanted somebody that could drive this business for a long, long time to come.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: So taking somebody on the 40s and 50s absolutely no use to me whatsoever.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: So I would massively encourage anybody to think of a younger age, but also as well.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: It's like you know.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, ryan's freshly qualified, but that means everything he's learned and everything he's studied for is in there.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: I did my qualifications years ago.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: So ask me to read through an RO book or sit an RO exam Well, that could be interesting.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: So ask me to read through an RO book or sit an RO exam Well, that could be interesting.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: But ask me for experience.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: What would you do in this situation?
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: How do you handle that kind of client?
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: What does this look like for somebody?
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: I've got the benefit of all that experience and I've got a lot of knowledge, but I'm also thinking about my own retirement as well.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: So all of that combined between Ryan and I, I think we've got it all okay so someone might be listening to this who runs their own business at the moment.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Thinking about bringing somebody on succession planning is pretty much what we're talking about.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a really great way to look at it.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: And also, when you focus on the younger advisors they're going to be around for some time builds confidence, probably with your clients first.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: You know it's gonna be there throughout their life and that's really really important for those long-term relationships.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Now, what advice would you give a financial planner who's considering doing the same thing?
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: How much of their time do you think is dedicated to the training and development of someone?
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Ryan, you know, does it eat into your day?
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: What preparation?
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: What things should they think about when taking on a trainee Because they want to do it?
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Most of them do want to do it, but they're nervous about doing it.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I've spoken to a lot of my colleagues within M&G that have had similar questions to ask of me as well.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: For me, 100%, it's been worth it.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, you do have to invest time.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: I couldn't have just said to Ryan there's a client, off you go.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: I 100% make sure that Ryan knows I am always available to him for anything that he may ever need.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: We sit down on a regular basis together.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: At the very beginning we'd talk through cases, cases.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Now it's more about the long-term strategy of the business rather than just how to deal with client cases.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: But those queries will still crop up and they always will.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, you've got to invest time.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: You can't just expect something to just come from nothing.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Um, but without a shadow of a doubt, it's also so rewarding because, you know, two years ago Ryan had never sat in front of a client.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: So to see what he does now and to see his vouch for reviews and to hear my longstanding clients say to me what a great guy, so knowledgeable, so professional that to me is so rewarding.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, we spent a lot of time, we invested a lot of time together and hard work does need to be input, but the rewards from that are just phenomenal because also, as well, having Ryan working in the business has allowed me to take a bit more of a step back.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: So, from a personal level, my work-life balance is so much better.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: So invest the time now to reap the long-term rewards.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: And also, it's something that had to be done because there's always going to be a day that somebody like me wants to exit their business.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Nobody wants to do this forever.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: So you've got to have some kind of succession plan in place, because this isn't about me, this is about my client.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: So I've spent years and years and years nurturing relationships with clients.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: The last thing I want is for them to get a letter that says hey, bailey, financial planning, yeah, she's sold now, you now deal with so-and-so.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: That, for me, was never, ever going to happen.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: So if you really care about your business, everything you've built and your clients at the end of the day, then you've got to have some kind of succession plan.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: So it's just a no-brainer.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: It's a no-brainer, I get it 100% and I think it is just shifting that mindset that there's going to be some time and energy put in in the beginning.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: It's going to really water the fun.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: You're already seeing it from the world.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you that, being locked in because you're locked in right, here's a goal you can own this business one day.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Has that shifted your mindset at all?
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Has it made you feel like, wow, I am locked in for the long haul with Kate Bailey, your mindset at all?
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Has it made you feel like, wow, I am locked in for the long haul with Kay Bailey?
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: No, and the reason I say no is because that was sort of the plan for us at outset.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: So we did sit down, we had a good discussion about where both of us, I think, want to be in five or 10 years' time, and there was a period of time, obviously at the start, where you're fully focused on learning the job right.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: I've never had a client facing role before.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: I always dealt with internal customers.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: So there was a period of time, even still now, and I don't think any financial planner in the uk or elsewhere can say that they've got the job perfect.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: I don't think anybody does.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: There's always room for learning and I think at the start that was that was the focus.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: The focus was getting up to speed, making sure that I was able to do the job um successfully.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: I knew how to speak to clients, I knew how to ask open questions, my body language was the way it needed to be and I was getting hints and tips off k dropping k.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: I watch that message almost every other day, which I'm sure she maybe got sick of from time to time, but to this day I still do the same.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: So I think for that first period it was, as I say, learning the job and, as Kate mentioned a couple of minutes ago, it's now starting to look more longer term.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: So what does the next three years look like?
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: What does the next five years look like longer term?
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: So what does the next three years look like?
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: What does the next five years look like?
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: And probably, um, coming to the realization, I think, for both of us, that at some point, kate will want to, kate will want to exit, as she's mentioned, um, and I'll be a business owner, which is daunting.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: It's daunting to me.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: I'm 26 and I've just had my first son.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of change happening just now, so, um, but it's exciting and I think that's what keeps both of us going.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: It's exciting.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: It's um, we're sort of both looking forward to seeing where the business can go, which is which is super important.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you, kate so you're planning on taking on some more people, some more younger individuals?
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: We've talked talked to Ryan, then about being a business owner and that's part of the long term strategy.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: But what about the others coming through?
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Are you offering equity to those individuals?
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Is it an employee ownership program?
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: How have you structured this?
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: At the moment, we've got our next training advisor coming in any advisor coming in and genuinely, it's not something that I've really thought long and hard about because, from day one, my view was always it was always all about Ryan.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: So what I'm not going to do is unbreak a promise that I've given to Ryan.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: So there is a clear strategy for Ryan, and that question probably better asked her if I, because that might be something that he wants to think about when he grows the empire.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: So I genuinely I can't really answer that because at this moment in time, it's just going to be.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: We'll just see where it goes.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Feels a bit like it's a partnership at the moment.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Is that the kind of vibe you guys have got?
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, from day one.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: I've always made absolutely clear to Ryan you don't work for me.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the contract says you do, but actually you work with me.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: So we are very much a team.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Everything we do it's about the business, it's about us.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: We're not about Ryan and Kate.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: We very much work together.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I see us as equals.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, my name's above the door, but that's really as far as it goes.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: It is very much a partnership between the two of us sounds great.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: So one of the toughest challenges for new advisors that enter the profession is not getting the qualifications that, relatively, you know, a lot of people are getting the qualifications.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Biggest struggle that we come across and I come across in the 16 years of running a recruitment business and the messages I get in as well from newbies is business development.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: How do you generate clients?
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: How do you win new client relationships, whether that's through professional introducers or B2C?
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: How are you doing it?
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: It's a lot more difficult than I think people are led to believe, right that people are just going to walk through the door and say I want some advice and here's my money and invest it for me, for instance.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about how you got yourself up and running, got yourself in front of clients and have you had success and how have you had success?
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: So, firstly, I think it's probably important to note that RGE do provide leads, so we do get leads through the academy and whilst the leads are available, we take them because they're there to be taken on.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: But I think it's also important to note that we're not overly reliant on leads.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, the odd lead that comes through is good, good, but we're not as a business, reliant on the leads.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: The business is very self-sufficient.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: So Kate has spent the last 24 years and more recently in the last four or five years, building up the business so that it can be self-sufficient.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: And I think it's at one point before I came on board.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: I don't think, kate, you've ever taken on leads and I think a lot of the business that's come through has been through referrals.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: It's been through family members of clients and I saw the business has sort of grown from that perspective before I had joined.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: I think now that I've joined, obviously there's a couple of different avenues that the business has now got access to, because I am sort of young and motivated that I want the business to grow, I want to get out there and I want to build a network.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: So leads is a good first example.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: So the business is growing naturally, from converting leads, which is great, still generating further business through clients that we've already got within the business.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: That will always happen.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: I think I don't think that will come a time where that won't be the case.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: And then a couple of different avenues that maybe the business, the business sort of, wasn't looking at before because there wasn't really a need.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: So the likes of referral programs.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: So firstly, asking, asking clients, which I know is um site seems pretty simple.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: Not a lot of people like doing it, being up front asking clients, just saying listen, how would you feel about recommending me to a family member or friend?
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: And I think the the success that we've certainly had from that and I've certainly had from that in the in the last two years of being a financial planner, has been great right.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: So I've seen husbands and wives, so I've seen husbands and wives, I've seen kids and I've seen relations, so brothers and sisters of clients and the business has naturally grown that way, which is which is great.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: Other referral programs the likes of vouch for and other programs where we can generate reviews on a platform and bulk, send out something that requests if the if the client will refer us on to somebody else.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: So it's a sort of quick win by pinging an email out to clients and saying listen, hopefully we've done a good job for you.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: Do you mind recommending us to somebody else?
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: And then I think the third point that we are actively trying to look into at the moment and we're spending a fair amount of time doing it is A to B, so trying to get in with businesses in the local area.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: So, whether that's Wakefield, leeds, further afield in terms of the wider Yorkshire area, we're trying to get in with businesses.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: We want to promote financial wellness, we want to promote financial education.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: We want the amount of people, the amount of clients we talk to, who say I didn't know anything about this and it would have been great if my employer had told me how this pension works or that I could pay more money into my pension.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: So I think, whilst there's a lack of knowledge of the profession itself within younger people, I also think there's a lack of general financial planning knowledge just within the population.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: And I think we're trying to do our little bit, because we're not going to take over the world, we're not going to um be be in and amongst the biggest businesses in the uk and elsewhere, but we want to play our part and hopefully get in with local businesses and we've got a couple of things on the go at the moment, um and get in and just talk to people about financial planning, give them a bit of a general overview and, of course, in turn, that hopefully generates some leads for us as well hey, so have you yourself been out knocking on those cold doors and those businesses and offering services?
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: you're doing like what?
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Pension clinics and things like that, what?
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: How are you getting through the door?
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Because people struggle, don't they, to get through the door and have those conversations?
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Are the doors being?
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: opened in the businesses, yeah, so.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: So we've had, we've had a few conversations and we spoke to a couple of different consultants about different ways for us to be able to what's the most successful ways for us to be able to get in with businesses because, let's be honest, hr departments and businesses are inundated with emails and calls and stuff with people offering service.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: So we've sort of um, we spoke to various different people that have given us different avenues to explore.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: We've had a couple of calls with some local businesses and we're sort of waiting to hear back in terms of where they want to go and how they want to operate.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: Um, but a lot of my time now is, yes, still spent clients.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: A lot of my time now is working on that business development side of things.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: So it's actually not looking at um.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: What's, what's the business sort of generating just now, revenue wise?
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: It's what can the business sort of generate in the next maybe three or five years?
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Where can we get to in terms of advisor numbers and and how can we get more clients through the door and how can we help more people?
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I think, okay, have you found that bringing ryan on has generated more referrals from existing clients, like having an extra person in the business.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: That's quite new, that can maybe phone up, send some emails, do some marketing.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Has it had an impact on those internal referrals from existing clients?
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Because I've always, whenever I speak to advisors and they struggle for the first couple of years, but once they've got some clients actually in the mix, they say then the referrals start coming and that's when the business starts to ramp up.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Have you sort of found that yourself?
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: And having ryan on board turning stones over where you might not have had the time to do it, has it had a positive impact?
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: There's now, you know, two working bodies in the business, so clearly there is more time and there's more resources and very soon there'll be three of us, so even better.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: So again, it's just making sure from the outset that Ryan has part of his strategy, asking for referrals and talking about how we build our business.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: So you know, in the beginning that's what I used to do.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I'd leave several business cards scattered on the coffee table and say feel free to pass those out, and it's something that is ongoing.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: We've always asked that.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: So I got the benefit of being around for a long time and my name's quite popular in some businesses with relation to, um, you know, some big pension transfers and things that we've done.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: So word gets around in in that respect and it is inevitably just the domino effect one person spreads to another, spreads to to another, and Ryan is fully aware that, going forward, he's got a vested interest in growing this business but also as well bringing on younger clients.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: So I think, again, being a younger person himself, that also is quite an advantage, because he's talking to people more on his age level as well as people significantly older than us as well.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: So it's just about going through the motions and making it part of your repertoire that you always explain to clients that we grow our business proudly on referrals, and who do you think will benefit from the service that we've just provided for you and things like going out to businesses.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: You know I hold my hands up.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: It's not something I've ever wanted to do or needed to do, because whilst there was only me, I was literally.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: There wasn't enough hours in the day to run the business and give the advice itself, so I wasn't in a position where I could have said, oh yeah, I'll come and do a seminar to a bunch of employees in the staff room or whatever, whereas now Ryan is focusing on that and does set time aside each week to work purely on business development.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Again, it's not an easy thing.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: It's not something he's done before, but it's like anything, isn't it?
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: You've just got to, like you said, you've got to throw yourself in at the deep end sometimes, sam, and it's like anything, isn't it?
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: You've just gotta, like you said, um, you've got to throw yourself in at the deep end sometimes, sam, and it's just sink or swim, isn't it?
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: And for every door that closes, that just means there's um another one open, and so you've just got to keep working and working towards finding that and and getting your foot in the door with people have some fun as well, yeah absolutely yeah business development fun.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Building relationships are fun.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Meeting people that you've never met before, having conversations with them.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: It's fun.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Find creative ways to have those conversations, as I said to you, pretty cool.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Like for me, I get excited by business development.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: So I got into hoxton.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I've never worked in financial planning before.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: I've gone straight into the leadership.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I'm ahead of creative.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: I'm adding value around the business in lots of different ways.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Right, my head says bring in as many assets as you possibly can.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Right, I don't ever want to be a financial planner.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: It's not for me, it's not that type of job for me.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Right, but building relationships and bringing clients in that way, or assets in that way, that's really interesting, exciting.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: So I'm looking at ways that I can build really good relationships with the types of introducers that would deal with the types of clients that we're working with.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: And I'm also thinking outside the box.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: You know I'm not going to be able to sit in front of a solicitor or an accountant and probably win them over.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: But could I sit in front of a guy who runs an international travel company?
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Probably probably I could.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: You know I could sit there and I could talk to them about what are you doing?
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: How are you doing?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: How are you generating clients?
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: This is really, you know, an amazing entrepreneurial thing that you're building.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: By the way, we're an international financial planning company, multi-jurisdiction.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: We can talk to your clients about pensions.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Have you ever thought about introducing those people that you know are moving to us?
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: And we can arrange a nice, introduce a relationship.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Or I've got somebody at the moment who moves people from america over to france and he goes through the whole process, that real tricky process of moving people, people that are retiring, so they've got quite a large amount of liquid assets in pensions and they sold their house, etc.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: None of them are ready to have, none of them have thought about financial planning.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: So we bring the financial planning element into the process that he is doing.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: So we get warm, excited people wanting to move to france, for example, or wherever in the world, and we can then talk to them.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Have you thought about your tax before, about your financial planning, and for me that's exciting.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: So for me it's like right, I'm not going to try and pretend I'm a function, I just want to bring people that are doing really interesting things with the types of people that I want to speak to and can I create content.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: So one of my things as well is that, okay, great, you've got amazing service, looks like you've got a small youtube following, a bit like me.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Why don't we come together and co-create content on the life?
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: And we can create podcasts, we can create youtube videos.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: So when somebody searches for the top five schools in dubai and I'm working with somebody that talks to people about moving their kids to Perugia, co-create content and it's a Hoxton wealth.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: So there are these really creative ways to do things and I think it's fun, it's exciting, and stepping outside of the traditional room and me not coming from financial planning is.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: I think it's adding value to the business that I'm going into, because I see things from a different perspective, not just with my financial planner head on.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense?
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: I think you have fun with it, don't you?
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: yeah, absolutely yeah, because you know the, the job itself.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: It could be deemed quite boring, um, you know what we do, so you and and life is what you make it, so you've got to have fun along the way, absolutely success then, ryan, have you had much success?
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: talk to us about your performance so far yeah, I think quite a quite, quite, quite um quite a lot of success.
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: So actually that's the last year with an mng um, the business um, one ar firm of the year, um, which was really exciting and I think I'm concerned for both of us.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: It wasn't expected, it was nothing that we'd sort of aimed towards, so it was really nice, really nice to be recognised for the work I think we're doing for the wider business but also for our clients as well.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: I also won Academy Advisor of the Year within M&G as well within my first year, which again wasn't expected.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: But really really sort of sit down when we first started, when I first sort of came into the business, and we did set some objectives of what we wanted to achieve and when, and sort of loosely I think, we were sort of saying that it would be nice, it would be nice if we were to win something at the end of this year.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: Just, it's always nice to win things and we did so success-wise.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: That was great.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: And, yeah, it's always nice to win things and we did so success-wise.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: That was great.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: And yeah, it's always nice to be recognised, I think, other things that we've been doing as well within the business.
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: So obviously the amount of business we've been writing, the amount of clients we're able to go out and see, has been really sort of successful as well.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: I think just one thing just to sort of comment on is that just sort of tying in with the business development point a bit.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: Um, I think a lot of people sort of get caught up at the start of getting down, writing as many reports as they can, trying to build as much business as possible, try and gain some momentum, try and build a client banking.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: Often people forget about that business development side of things because that's where the real, that's where the real success is long term.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: As you, as you, as you have just said about hoxton and stuff, it's all, it's all relevant, like, um, and I think, because newer people are coming into the profession, maybe having, maybe having done something separate, they're not focusing on that business development point initially.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: It's all about how do I become the perfect financial planner, and that gets put to one side.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: And kate mentioned a minute ago, we spend um time on a weekly basis focusing on business development and sometimes it can be tough.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: It can be tough putting that couple hours aside on a friday morning and because you've maybe got another report to write, you've got a client to see, but it's important, it's a long-term view.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: Um, that will, that will continue to make the business the business success yeah, 100, 100 agree with you.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Coming into that hoxton world actually, yeah, where they bring people on without any experience they call it a trainee wealth manager role and again off the way to become a financial advisor.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: During that period they do their qualifications.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: It's very unique in the sense that there's not many firms that will take somebody on without any experience, give them a basic salary and then put them on the telephone to phone up inquiries that have come through paid-for advertising.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: These young guys and girls are on the phone day in, day out phoning up people that have shown an interest in pension transfer or moving their pension from one of the Whatever the query might well be based on the advertising we're putting out.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: They do that, they hone their skills.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: They knock on a few doors.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: They get a lot of rejection but they get better and better and better at being able to recognize those opportunities.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: And once they do that, they then pass them on to the financial planner.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: And they've been managing the process as well behind the scenes, making sure they're booked in, making sure they're followed up.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: So they start to really start to develop on their client relationship skills as well, and they have to do before they even get considered to go on to the pathway to becoming a financial planner.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: So the one thing I'm impressed by I so the one thing I'm impressed by I think more firms should do is create this entry-level role which is focused on business development, because it is the weakest area of people coming into financial planning.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: They need to focus on business development.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: They need to be sitting in front of meetings.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: You hear about people that are going down a trainee financial planner, starting as administrators or paraphrasers, and in two years they're not even sitting in a meeting with a financial planner.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: They're in the back doing the reports.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: I just think, well, how is that a trainee financial planner role?
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, go and do the hardest thing in the very beginning.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: If you don't have experience, if you don't have experience of picking the telephone and phoning somebody up and feeling uncomfortable, go and do it because that's the quickest route to becoming the success.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: What's interesting is where I've come in and I'm seeing these people that go through the process, and this is the thing as well Young people.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: We've got a guy named 300,000.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: He's under 25.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: 300,000 as a financial advisor and he's under 25 years old.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I'll never go in some 15 million within his first 10 months of being, and these are all people that have gone through the process of a business developer, training, wealth manager role whilst doing their qualifications.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: It works, prospecting and BD works, and I think we put more people a little bit too much in this profession and I think people should be chucking them in at deep end.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Get out there and do some BD.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Companies need to be spending some money on some advertising, bringing in leads for these people to convert.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: I think it's using LinkedIn, using marketing methods, to actually do that.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Ryan, have you had much success through LinkedIn yourself?
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: I see you on there quite a bit.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: So LinkedIn was never really set up for me.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've always had LinkedIn, but I've only really started using it since joining kate's business um and for me it was never really about generating leads, so I never really wanted I mean it would.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: It would have been nice to have um from the sort of from time to time, but it was never about it was never a lead generation tool.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: So for linkedin, for me it was about one building, building the business's brand and getting the business's name out there for more people to see, whether it be introducers or anyone.
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: Just building a sort of business brand and secondly, building a bit of a professional network as well.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: So I want to be part of the financial planning industry.
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: I don't want to just be a financial advisor who works for a business and that's it like who works.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: I want to be more than that.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: I want to be out there, I want to be helping people and I get a lot of people, a lot of people coming through who are thinking about joining an academy, so they'll speak to um.
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: Maybe they may be having conversations with other academies within the profession.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: They're considering joining the mng academy.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: Ryan, what's it like?
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: What was your experience and and often I spend maybe a couple hours a week speaking to these people and maybe it's not for them and maybe they sort of just needed the information, but how good does it feel being able to provide that and help someone on their journey as well?
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: Kate mentioned about how rewarding it is for her just now seeing, obviously, me coming through and stuff like that, and I'm sort of it's really early on, but I'm sort of hopefully trying to do my bit as well with other people because I believe in it.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: I'm passionate about the profession, I love what I do.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, so LinkedIn was never really for the generation.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: So from success-wise, depending on how you define success, for me helping other people, building a professional network and the brand's sort of network in the industry as a success- in itself.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Keep doing that, because the byproduct of that is you'll get business come in, people will be aware of you.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: I think that's a smart move.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: When I did Financial Plan of Life, I didn't create a lot of business In the last couple of years, it was just brand awareness.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Positioning myself as a key person of influence helped me out in a hindrance to the profession.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Once you do that, people see you that way and then later on down the line they're like he's not going away, he's adding value, he's obviously doing something right.
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: So let's work with and every morning I go into LinkedIn I'm not sure about you every morning I go into LinkedIn and update it, your face pops up at the top of the screen.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: So it's like, right, okay, there's another clip, we'll go in and have a watch of the 30-second clip and then when I'm driving to my next client meeting, we'll put the podcast on in the background.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: So it's great, and you've had influential people in the industry on the podcast as well, and I think that's why it was important for us to come on and tell our story and, I think, do our bit for the industry and hopefully this podcast and us having this conversation will help someone.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 100% it will, without a shadow of a doubt, business owners and new people that are coming through.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: So let's end on this, then.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: What would be your biggest bit of advice, kate, for somebody thinking about hiring someone under 25 years old?
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Well, I've said it before and I'll say it again it is just do it, but you absolutely need to invest the time and effort and you need to make sure it's not just anybody under 25.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: It needs to be the right person.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: So make sure you take the time to get to know that person.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: I was very blessed in Tavares.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Ryan and I had a relationship prior to working together because I knew of him, I knew his reputation, I knew of his skill set before he even joined the business, and I did actually take on an advisor prior to Ryan, a trainee advisor.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: And so also as well you've got to appreciate is um, learn from your mistakes, because that situation didn't go well, unfortunately.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: I brought somebody into the business and I put them through the academy assessment process with me and I was told by the assessors we don't think he's right, we don't think he's right for us or the academy, and I said take him on anyway.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: And then, six months later, sadly, he had not been able to pass a single exam first time and we'd come to the end of the road, because if you can't pass an exam, you can't get the qualifications.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: If you're not qualified, you're no good to me.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: And so we did part company.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: So do you know what?
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: I made a mistake and I learned from that.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: So I made sure that when I put the feelers out for bringing somebody else on, I said, look, this person has got to have skin in the game.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: I need to make sure that this person has already started some qualifications and there's got a little bit of history that says they can get through an exam.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: And I need somebody that's got the same, the same goals and the same long-term vision as me and somebody that can come in and care about my clients and my business.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: The way that I do so.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: It's not just take somebody on end of, it's find that right person, work with them, make sure you're on the same page and invest the time, invest in everything you need to do to grow and develop that person.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't stop once that person becomes qualified.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: It's an ongoing relationship from that day forward.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: So training financial planner isn't just for Christmas, it's for life right.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, yeah yeah.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: Training financial planner isn't just for christmas, is for life, right?
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, yeah, yeah, but so rewarding and what you get back from what you give is just it's invaluable.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: It really really is I love it.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Fantastic advice.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: That, by the way, love learning from learning from previous mistakes.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: I ran a recruitment company made loads of bad hires, held on the people for far too long when deep down I knew they were wrong, but I was kind of emotionally connected to it, and sometimes you have to make those decisions.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Make sure we're hiring the right person, because all it's going to do is cause you a headache in the long run yourself and the person who's going through the process, who's not right for the process.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: So that's really good, ryan.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: What about advice for anyone considering becoming a financial planner, then?
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: Ryan Duffy, do it, do it, give it a go.
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: Um, if you're, if you're genuinely passionate about, um, helping people, um, I look at I've always said purpose and profitability.
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: That's the way I look at it.
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: It gives me purpose, it's something that I'm passionate about and, let's be honest, it's profitable as well.
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: So it works in sort of both ways.
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: So I'd say, anybody that's looking to join the industry, and certainly anybody that's younger looking to join the industry, as kate said, find the right person.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: I also had conversations with other people prior to speaking to kate.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: So when I was going through the academy, there was other opportunities, um, north of where I was living at the time, a couple of opportunities a bit further south, not as far as West Yorkshire, right enough, but a bit further south, and I was having the conversations, and the conversations didn't fit in with my goals and where I wanted to be.
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: And I think when Kate and I had that initial conversation, to be fair, I think we both sort of knew that it was right for each other and I think, actually, we were both sort of thinking how quickly can we get this done rather than waiting for a period of time?
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: So I think, find the right person.
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: Speak and network with business owners as well.
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: Don't forget that the job and the profession comes first.
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: So learn the trade, get good at what you're going to do.
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: Speak to people, younger people in the industry who have went through the process, like myself.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: My, my linkedin or or whatever's always open to anybody that wants to ask any questions about my experience, or if I can give any any hints or tips, then great and but learn from other people before you decide to to sort of do it.
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: But it's an incredibly rewarding career and, as I say, kate's obviously provided me with a fantastic opportunity now in the future to grow the business and hopefully eventually become a business owner.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I know, if I was listening to this right now, well, knowing what I know about the success that you guys have had together, I'd be looking at you as a blueprint for success.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: What have you done?
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: How have you done it?
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: What would you have done differently?
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: And I'd be looking to roll that out across mng, talking to other ar managers, helping them grow their businesses by adopting probably the same process.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: There's a lot that people can learn from you, because it's not an easy ride doing.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: I think it sounds like you've been very successful in your journey so far and lots of people I think will will be interested in talking to you both anyway, the ones that come no, listen to this podcast now, but I think internally, what a what a result that you've had and the awards show them and the success you've had to show as well.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: So I'm sure they'll be knocking on your door, if they haven't already, to be sharing the secrets of how you've made a super success.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: I hear really good things about mng.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: I hear about the ecosystem there and um, obviously the academy's up and running is quite new.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: It's always a struggle, it's always very difficult, but it sounds like you are a shining example that it is a success if the right person comes into it and also if the right person ends up in the right hands, because a really good person can end up in some terrible business and take the life out of them, you know, and they might not be the success they should be because of the environment they're in.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: So I think it works two ways, doesn't it?
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: Don't think about going self-employed all the time.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: You can go into an existing business, but do your due diligence on the person, and you guys did that.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: You got to know each other for quite some time before you started off, but it seems like it's a match made in heaven, so it's lovely talking to you.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: Both love hearing success stories and um.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing on the financial plan of life today.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having us sans been great to catch up.
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: Thank you, sam, you take care and you cheers.