Latest / Pit Talk / Is this the start of Lando's comeback? Austrian GP Review

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Is this the start of Lando's comeback? Austrian GP Review · Pit Talk

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Pit Talk, brought to you by Shannon's.
0:03
Speaker 1: On today's episode, Lando Norris scores a decisive victory at
0:06
Speaker 1: the Austrian Grand Prix to reduce his title devicit to
0:10
Speaker 1: Oscar Piastri, and after another disappointing result for Alpine, is
0:14
Speaker 1: yet another driver change on the cards. My name is
0:17
Speaker 1: Michael Lomonado. It's great to have your company and the
0:19
Speaker 1: company of my co host. He's just got off the
0:22
Speaker 1: phone with Flavio Briatore something about a drive after the
0:24
Speaker 1: mid season break. It's Matt Payton.
0:26
Speaker 2: Look, I'm a little bit busy, but I could probably
0:28
Speaker 2: squeeze five races in because that tends to be what
0:31
Speaker 2: most drivers at Alpine get. So I'll be done just
0:34
Speaker 2: in time for us to head to I don't know,
0:36
Speaker 2: Katar or something. It's a bit hot there, so I'm
0:38
Speaker 2: to drive there. But I'll do my best in my
0:40
Speaker 2: five races and then pass the baton onto somebody else.
0:43
Speaker 2: That seems to be the way it's going.
0:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, who says there's no certainty at Alpine? You know,
0:47
Speaker 1: you get five races and you're done. It's just the
0:50
Speaker 1: way it is. We will talk about the situation at
0:52
Speaker 1: Alpine a little bit later on, and of course at
0:54
Speaker 1: Red Bull Racing, where nothing's changed and that's the problem.
0:57
Speaker 1: But let's start with Lando Norris winning the OS and
1:00
Speaker 1: Grand Prix. It was the rebound he needed after the
1:03
Speaker 1: catastrophe in Canada, and he dominated from start to finish
1:06
Speaker 1: except FP one, which he did not enter, but all
1:09
Speaker 1: of the practice sessions is he had FP two, FP
1:10
Speaker 1: three top. There are all three qualifying segments, biggest pole
1:13
Speaker 1: margin of the season, victory over teammatee Oscar Piastre, including
1:17
Speaker 1: some genuine wheel to wheel battling in the first stint
1:20
Speaker 1: at least, does it feel like to you, Matt Lando
1:24
Speaker 1: Norris's back, is there is this another false dawn like
1:27
Speaker 1: the Monaco example.
1:29
Speaker 2: I don't know. Either of those questions could be yes
1:31
Speaker 2: or no. I guess I think firstly, I'd like to
1:33
Speaker 2: welcome you to the start of the second half of
1:35
Speaker 2: the Formula one season two races early because I feel
1:38
Speaker 2: that McLaren being in their own category at the front
1:41
Speaker 2: of Grand Prix, particularly with a real change looming for
1:44
Speaker 2: twenty six and all of the developmental taps being turned off,
1:48
Speaker 2: a term we're going to hear quite a bit I
1:49
Speaker 2: feel that we're going to have a lot more racist
1:51
Speaker 2: like this, where it's too McLaren's in one race and
1:53
Speaker 2: everybody else in another one. But to my mind, this
1:57
Speaker 2: was a win that Norris had to have in the
2:00
Speaker 2: manner that he had it because of what had happened
2:02
Speaker 2: in Canada, the fact that he put his hand up,
2:04
Speaker 2: the fact that he had lost wouldn't say control, certainly
2:07
Speaker 2: lost momentum within his own team, and in the championship fight,
2:10
Speaker 2: he needed to win a race. He needed to win
2:12
Speaker 2: a race like this, and I think if this championship
2:16
Speaker 2: battle is going to run and run for the remainder
2:17
Speaker 2: of the season, which given that it seems to be
2:19
Speaker 2: a two car championship now I think is going to happen,
2:22
Speaker 2: he had to have this. We did foreshadow this in
2:24
Speaker 2: last week's preview episode that this has been a particularly
2:27
Speaker 2: good track for him, and even when McLaren wasn't particularly good,
2:31
Speaker 2: he was quite good here. So the manner in which
2:34
Speaker 2: he won on the weekend was impressive, probably not a
2:37
Speaker 2: massive surprise. I guess we'll never really know how the
2:41
Speaker 2: race might have played out differently, or at least the
2:43
Speaker 2: battle for pole, because of how compromise. Q three was,
2:47
Speaker 2: but given he'd had some sort of ropie races and
2:50
Speaker 2: there'd been some questions about his championship bona fides, I
2:52
Speaker 2: think this is a win he had to have, and
2:53
Speaker 2: the way he did it was very impressive. Whether Oscar
2:56
Speaker 2: Piastri had a pole position lap in him, we're never
2:59
Speaker 2: going to because of what happened in Q three, you
3:01
Speaker 2: would say unlikely, But we also know that Piastre is
3:04
Speaker 2: a guy who rises to the occasion when the stakes
3:06
Speaker 2: are at their higher, So it was a shame we
3:08
Speaker 2: never really got a definitive answer to that. But the
3:10
Speaker 2: first into the race, it was great that they allowed
3:14
Speaker 2: them to race because it was very compelling tov, wasn't it.
3:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it really made up for what otherwise
3:20
Speaker 1: would have been very really quite streadfulard domination. So it
3:22
Speaker 1: was an entertaining race. Once Osco Piastri got into second place,
3:26
Speaker 1: you do wonder, how do you even at least qualified
3:28
Speaker 1: on the front row, how different this race might have
3:30
Speaker 1: been because he made a passed straight off the line. Okay,
3:32
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been the same pass, but to have been
3:35
Speaker 1: competing from turn one rather than turn three as it
3:38
Speaker 1: was maybe things would have looked slightly different, but I
3:41
Speaker 1: do like and I think the question is now obviously
3:44
Speaker 1: beyond doubt because not only have we seen so many examples,
3:47
Speaker 1: but it now looks pretty clear it is just a
3:49
Speaker 1: two horse race for the driver's title. How many times
3:52
Speaker 1: McLaren's proved that, yes, they are going to be free
3:54
Speaker 1: to race and it's going to be fine, and we're
3:56
Speaker 1: going to manage it fine, and there's going to be
3:57
Speaker 1: no issues or controversies. I feel like they passed a
4:00
Speaker 1: lot of those tests, you know, the only real test left,
4:02
Speaker 1: and obviously the team will be hoping they never have
4:04
Speaker 1: to be asked. The question is when they genuinely crash
4:07
Speaker 1: into each other in the heat of battle, not in
4:09
Speaker 1: a clumsy era like was in the case in Canada
4:12
Speaker 1: with Lando Norris. But they are sticking to their guns,
4:15
Speaker 1: and I think it's really interesting. And I'm not sure
4:17
Speaker 1: if this is just because you only get a certain
4:19
Speaker 1: amount of radio through the team and you can go
4:21
Speaker 1: and find full radio communications, but every driver communicates with
4:24
Speaker 1: the engineers differently. But I find it really interesting how
4:27
Speaker 1: much Lando Norris in particular, But it is happening to
4:30
Speaker 1: Oscar to a lesser extent is being motivated to compete
4:35
Speaker 1: with the other car in a way that as if
4:38
Speaker 1: the other car were from a different team. Obviously they
4:40
Speaker 1: know that they're their chief championship rival, so it's not unusual,
4:43
Speaker 1: it's not too strange, but it's just really interesting that,
4:46
Speaker 1: you know, the further we get into this season, the
4:48
Speaker 1: clear it's become that McLaren knew ahead of the year
4:51
Speaker 1: that this was the likely outcome. Where all the down
4:53
Speaker 1: talking every team does when they know they've got a
4:55
Speaker 1: dominant car, and they feel really prepared to let these
4:58
Speaker 1: two drivers battle as hard as possible and yet trust
5:02
Speaker 1: them not to make a mistake. And I just think
5:03
Speaker 1: there's another interesting chapter in that because they went very far,
5:06
Speaker 1: and they let them go very far without ever intervening.
5:09
Speaker 2: Which is commendable and again easier to do when you're
5:13
Speaker 2: probably you know, you know, you're really the only two
5:17
Speaker 2: drivers in contention for the World Driver's Championship. I mean,
5:19
Speaker 2: at this stage McLaren's going to win the constructors Championship.
5:21
Speaker 2: For most teams, that's exactly what they want, and so
5:24
Speaker 2: the identity of the driver who wins it is probably
5:26
Speaker 2: a bit of a secondary consideration. What you said then
5:29
Speaker 2: is really interesting with the way that they were looking
5:31
Speaker 2: to exploit what the other car was doing. But I
5:34
Speaker 2: think there's also juxtaposed against this, they're trying to be
5:37
Speaker 2: so fair strategically, I think between the two drivers in
5:42
Speaker 2: that the way that race played out, I wonder if
5:46
Speaker 2: you know there was an alternate strategy there for Pastre
5:49
Speaker 2: to perhaps one stop or run the hard tire for longer.
5:52
Speaker 2: And is that a strategic option you take if the
5:55
Speaker 2: person you're racing against for the race win isn't from
5:57
Speaker 2: the same team. And that's interesting to me because to say,
6:00
Speaker 2: what was a Ferrari upfront of a Mercedes? I wonder
6:02
Speaker 2: if you'd be more bullish about perhaps going for some
6:05
Speaker 2: of those other strategic options. They're so determined to play
6:08
Speaker 2: at fair strategically, yet they're trying to chip away at
6:12
Speaker 2: every little advantage they can get over their rivals. So
6:15
Speaker 2: it's is a strange contrast here in that, yes, they
6:18
Speaker 2: are trying to win the race, but they're not going
6:20
Speaker 2: to do it necessarily through throwing a hail Mary to
6:23
Speaker 2: get an advantageous strategy or doing something different. There's this
6:27
Speaker 2: fairness they're trying to operate and it's commendable and it
6:29
Speaker 2: looks great when it's written down a piece of paper.
6:31
Speaker 2: But as you just said, then we've got, however many rounds,
6:34
Speaker 2: We've got to go a lot and there is inevitably
6:38
Speaker 2: going to be some contact because this is what happens
6:41
Speaker 2: in world championships with two strong race winning drivers in
6:45
Speaker 2: a dominant team. You know, you think back to the
6:46
Speaker 2: beginning of the V six turbo hybrid era where Lewis
6:49
Speaker 2: Hamilton and Nico Rosberg ran into each other on a
6:52
Speaker 2: number of occasions. Now only a Mercedes driver was going
6:54
Speaker 2: to win those championships, but you know, you think back
6:57
Speaker 2: to twenty fourteen. Daniel Rocado's winning Belgium that year vowed
7:00
Speaker 2: itself to the fact that the Mercedes ran into each
7:02
Speaker 2: other on the first lap, and it's going to happen.
7:05
Speaker 2: I don't think Mercedes are going to win every race
7:07
Speaker 2: of the rest of the year. A because Maxwistappen's two
7:09
Speaker 2: good at certain places, and b because there will be
7:12
Speaker 2: a race where you're going to see a Barcelona twenty
7:15
Speaker 2: sixteen situation where they're probably both going to end up
7:17
Speaker 2: in the gravel somewhere. It's just going to happen. So
7:20
Speaker 2: how long this concept of fairness and team play and
7:23
Speaker 2: everything else lasts It will depend on how many other
7:26
Speaker 2: rivals there are realistically in the fight for race wins.
7:28
Speaker 2: I think the championships out of the question now, but
7:30
Speaker 2: we've got so much of this season still to go,
7:33
Speaker 2: so this story could still change two or three times
7:35
Speaker 2: between now and when we get to Abu Dhabi. And
7:37
Speaker 2: picking when that's going to twist and what the inflection
7:40
Speaker 2: points are going to be is going to be really
7:42
Speaker 2: interesting in a series where on pace performance alone, I
7:46
Speaker 2: think Austria showed us that this really is a one team,
7:49
Speaker 2: two driver World Championship at this point. Those types of
7:52
Speaker 2: championships and races can be super interesting, as we know.
7:55
Speaker 2: But given you've got this looming regulation set change for
7:58
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, I think it's just escalate that even more.
8:01
Speaker 1: You think, I think so, And I think that it's
8:04
Speaker 1: sort of funny to think you talk about how long
8:06
Speaker 1: of the seasons to go, It feels like we've already
8:08
Speaker 1: lived more than half of the season. With the momentum
8:10
Speaker 1: Piastre had behind him since the Australian Grand Prix and
8:14
Speaker 1: the prospect of maybe that won't change and maybe this
8:17
Speaker 1: will be a one off, a nour or maybe it'll
8:18
Speaker 1: simply be much more even between them. But with so
8:21
Speaker 1: much the season still to go, it just makes you
8:23
Speaker 1: reassess or recontextualize the fact that there's there is so
8:26
Speaker 1: much potential for changes. You say the strategy thing just
8:29
Speaker 1: before you move on, I think is really interesting because
8:31
Speaker 1: I was trying to think back, and I've gone done
8:33
Speaker 1: a little bit of reading to remind myself, because it's
8:35
Speaker 1: alarming that it was a decade ago now when Mercedes
8:38
Speaker 1: really had the run of things in the start of
8:40
Speaker 1: his turbo hybrid era. It would always come to a
8:43
Speaker 1: point where they'd also let each side of the garage
8:46
Speaker 1: strategize their own way through races. Yes, like really it
8:48
Speaker 1: was almost as though there were two separate teams, which
8:51
Speaker 1: ultimately ended up being to the detriment of harmony. Anyone
8:54
Speaker 1: who remembers twenty sixteen, as I've alluded to, their un
8:56
Speaker 1: to the point where Tota Wolf swapped all the engineers
8:58
Speaker 1: and mechanics between cars to try and detox the team,
9:02
Speaker 1: if you like. But I wonder when that when McLaren
9:05
Speaker 1: will feel comfortable allowing that to happen, because that four
9:08
Speaker 1: lap op set is minimal strategy difference, right, it is
9:11
Speaker 1: still a little bit because it meant the drivers are
9:13
Speaker 1: doing slightly different things in middle stint. But I wonder
9:16
Speaker 1: how many points behind is max with staff and have
9:18
Speaker 1: to be in third place before McLaren is willing to
9:22
Speaker 1: allow its drivers to do their own thing because it's
9:25
Speaker 1: so clearly a one on one championship. But I don't
9:27
Speaker 1: feel like they'really that close. There's still this hedging mentality.
9:29
Speaker 1: Maybe it'll be a post mid season break thing, assuming
9:32
Speaker 1: that there is no change in the form guy between
9:34
Speaker 1: now and then, which is pretty unimaginable anyway. But I
9:36
Speaker 1: think that'll be interesting because that'll be the next test
9:38
Speaker 1: when you start to give them a bit more leash
9:41
Speaker 1: to be creative, to fight their own battles rather than
9:44
Speaker 1: deferring to the team and this idea of being a
9:47
Speaker 1: good team player. That's when you risk a little bit
9:51
Speaker 1: of those cracks. I think the characters are good and
9:54
Speaker 1: can survive it, but you don't know how tense this
9:56
Speaker 1: is going to be, right, We don't know what it's
9:57
Speaker 1: going to look like in Abu Dhabi, and.
9:58
Speaker 2: That will actually be super compelled, I think, because I
10:00
Speaker 2: think what made that Mercedes were just braining everybody every
10:04
Speaker 2: race weekend at that point. But what made that interesting
10:06
Speaker 2: was you always felt, I don't know whether it was
10:08
Speaker 2: true or not, but it certainly felt from my vantage
10:10
Speaker 2: point that there was this more sort of cerebral side
10:13
Speaker 2: to Nico Rosberg and that he could engineer himself into
10:17
Speaker 2: an advantageous position. And you know, whether that's reality or not,
10:21
Speaker 2: it always felt like Hamilton was the faster rider and
10:23
Speaker 2: a driver, and Rosberg was the smarter driver in that time,
10:28
Speaker 2: and so the contrast of each other's strengths mitigated against
10:31
Speaker 2: the other week That's what made that fight so interesting,
10:33
Speaker 2: because they were trying to achieve the same thing from
10:36
Speaker 2: different angles, Whereas at the moment the McLaren ever on
10:38
Speaker 2: this very narrow path. We will do things fairly. We
10:40
Speaker 2: will do things fairly. And in answer to your question,
10:42
Speaker 2: at what point how many points ahead of third place
10:45
Speaker 2: is enough? I mean, look, I said before McLaren's almost
10:49
Speaker 2: unlosable lead in the Constructors Championship. The fact that they
10:52
Speaker 2: already won that last year, so it's not what they're
10:55
Speaker 2: going for that for the first time, I think is
10:56
Speaker 2: an interesting point here as well, because they're not at
10:59
Speaker 2: risk of losing that. And then once it becomes realistic
11:03
Speaker 2: that nobody else other than a McLaren driver is going
11:05
Speaker 2: to win the Driver's World Championship, I think we will
11:07
Speaker 2: see that. The fascinating thing for me is that's probably
11:10
Speaker 2: going to favor one driver over the other. But who
11:12
Speaker 2: that's the answer. We don't know yet because we've got
11:15
Speaker 2: no evidence to suggest that one of them is going
11:16
Speaker 2: to be better placed. If they become the new dare
11:19
Speaker 2: I say rules of engagement, If that becomes a new thing,
11:24
Speaker 2: who does that advantage which side of the garage? Who
11:26
Speaker 2: is better at that, Who can think better on the fly,
11:29
Speaker 2: who has got better preparation, who can adapt within a
11:32
Speaker 2: race situation. I think that adds a lot of intrigue
11:35
Speaker 2: to some races at the end of the year, where
11:37
Speaker 2: we'll go into them knowing that it's probably going to be,
11:39
Speaker 2: all things considered, two orange cars on the front row
11:41
Speaker 2: and one of them is going to win. I think
11:43
Speaker 2: that will make it a lot more interesting just simply
11:45
Speaker 2: we're dealing with something we've not seen.
11:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it will be, and I do wonder
11:49
Speaker 1: whether they'll get there or whether they'll know for the
11:51
Speaker 1: first Drivers Championship. They'll refuse to allow that relaxation, but
11:54
Speaker 1: it'll be really interesting to see because I think it's
11:56
Speaker 1: pretty clear at this point we're heading towards that conclusion.
12:00
Speaker 1: I want to talk now about the broader picture here
12:02
Speaker 1: because we've had quite a few what have almost been
12:06
Speaker 1: billed as last chances for the rival teams to catch up. Right.
12:09
Speaker 1: We had those rule changes in Spain, the first major
12:11
Speaker 1: upgrades in him are all that sort of stuff, and
12:13
Speaker 1: no one's been able to catch McClaren. There was Canada
12:16
Speaker 1: that was a blip and there were circumstances behind it,
12:18
Speaker 1: but this one felt a little bit different because all
12:20
Speaker 1: the front running teams brought upgrades. Red Bull Racings brought
12:23
Speaker 1: one that I hoped would change things for Arari two.
12:25
Speaker 1: And I want to stick with Red Bull Racing here
12:26
Speaker 1: because not only did they bring these upgrades, but this
12:29
Speaker 1: is the home race of the Red Bull Company, even
12:31
Speaker 1: if the team's not based here, and it's also a
12:33
Speaker 1: track like Norris that Vestapan's always done very well and
12:35
Speaker 1: he's always formittable here. Five wins at this circuit and
12:38
Speaker 1: the team was just kind of nowhere all weekend. Versaven
12:42
Speaker 1: probably could have qualified, well, let's say third, could have
12:44
Speaker 1: done the front row. But if we assume he would
12:46
Speaker 1: have completed his lap, we've got to say Pastre would
12:48
Speaker 1: have been I think he probably would have taken the
12:50
Speaker 1: front row. Nonetheless, he would have qualified a lot better.
12:52
Speaker 1: It maybe not been obliterated by Andrea Kimi Antonelliot it
12:56
Speaker 1: turned three, but he was And that's part of the story.
12:59
Speaker 1: But the other part of the stories, of course, that
13:01
Speaker 1: the team still had one car in the race, but
13:03
Speaker 1: very easily forgettable. It was Yuki Sonoda who qualified eighteen,
13:06
Speaker 1: finished two laps down. You only driver two laps down,
13:09
Speaker 1: thirty seconds off the back of the pack. Yes, you
13:11
Speaker 1: had to make a third pit stop. Nonetheless, really poor
13:14
Speaker 1: race from him, despite the fact Matt that this was
13:16
Speaker 1: actually his closest he's been to maxim qualifying in terms
13:19
Speaker 1: of time deficit. This felt like a bit of a
13:23
Speaker 1: new low for me because it was another race where
13:25
Speaker 1: he ended saying I don't know why, I don't know
13:27
Speaker 1: why I'm slow. I don't know what to do about it.
13:29
Speaker 1: This is essentially paraphrasing his words, but they're not that different.
13:32
Speaker 1: If anyone's got any ideas, I'll try them. This was
13:35
Speaker 1: grim for Red Bull.
13:36
Speaker 2: So just to go back, you said that Red Bull
13:39
Speaker 2: had two cars in the race. I was not aware
13:41
Speaker 2: of this. In fact, I've not been aware that Red
13:43
Speaker 2: Bulls had two cars since since Daniel Riccardo drove there
13:47
Speaker 2: next to Maximstaff. And I mean, we only have to
13:49
Speaker 2: listen to that Sergio Perro's interview last week where they
13:51
Speaker 2: basically ambitted. They only according to Perez, they only run
13:54
Speaker 2: two cars because they have to. And this is the problem.
13:58
Speaker 2: I think it was at seventy seven since Red Bull
14:01
Speaker 2: didn't score a point. And this is the issue here
14:03
Speaker 2: because it is a one driver team and you've had
14:08
Speaker 2: this rotating situation now where you've tried so many different
14:13
Speaker 2: drivers in that second seat since Daniel Ricardo left that
14:16
Speaker 2: team for twenty nineteen. And I'm starting to think that
14:20
Speaker 2: we keep talking about the fact that they have a
14:22
Speaker 2: second driver problem, maybe they have a first driver problem.
14:26
Speaker 2: And because Max for stappad is so good and he
14:29
Speaker 2: is able to drive around the difficulties of a problematic
14:35
Speaker 2: car year on year, and we've discussed this before, it's
14:37
Speaker 2: the Mark Marquez Hondo Motor GP analogy here that is
14:41
Speaker 2: the problem. Is they're trying to find someone who can
14:44
Speaker 2: do some sort of percentage of what for Stappan can do,
14:46
Speaker 2: and maybe that person doesn't exist because the car is
14:49
Speaker 2: so extreme and you saw a situation it was made
14:53
Speaker 2: all the worse because everyone had come dressed in orange.
14:56
Speaker 2: You know, whether you're supporting Red Bully, supporting Max or
14:58
Speaker 2: whatever it is, you've got the giant or the infield
15:00
Speaker 2: of the circuit. This race exists because of a drink
15:04
Speaker 2: in a can. Let's be perfectly honest, and yes, their
15:08
Speaker 2: main guy was out on the first lap, and then
15:10
Speaker 2: after that that should be where the second driver is like, well,
15:12
Speaker 2: I'm going to banker solid sixth then at the very
15:16
Speaker 2: least so you actually notice. And the only time we
15:18
Speaker 2: saw Yuki sonoda was when he was getting into scrapes
15:21
Speaker 2: with people right at the very very back and trumbling around.
15:23
Speaker 2: And this is not an isolated incert But you could
15:26
Speaker 2: substitute Liam Lawson in here or anybody else. The contrast
15:30
Speaker 2: for me as well, is that Liam Lawson had his
15:32
Speaker 2: best Formula One result of his career with sixth place
15:35
Speaker 2: in Austria, and the normal course of events with the
15:38
Speaker 2: second team like that, you'd be like, well he seems
15:41
Speaker 2: good that young lawson Blake. Maybe we could promote him
15:43
Speaker 2: to Oh no, we can't do that because we gave
15:45
Speaker 2: him two races and we sent him back to the
15:48
Speaker 2: B team. So the whole thing is a bit of
15:51
Speaker 2: a shambles, let's be perfectly honest. But they seem quite lost.
15:56
Speaker 2: I mean, there was so much discussion about, oh wait
15:58
Speaker 2: till we get to Barcelona and we've got these new
16:00
Speaker 2: flexwing tests and this is going to be the you know,
16:03
Speaker 2: the magic bullet to get us back to the top.
16:04
Speaker 2: All that came and went with a bit of a whimpet,
16:06
Speaker 2: didn't it. And they're just they're just pretty much nowhere.
16:10
Speaker 2: And the one the thing I thought was interesting was
16:12
Speaker 2: that you may have read that maxistaff and didn't even
16:15
Speaker 2: watch the rest of the Grand Prix once he got
16:16
Speaker 2: knocked out. He actually went and sat and watched the
16:18
Speaker 2: spar twenty four hours with TV and that was fun,
16:22
Speaker 2: but he wasn't watching it. I think quite a few
16:24
Speaker 2: people in the crowd worked for that one either.
16:27
Speaker 1: I mean, I've done the Austrian ground for a couple
16:30
Speaker 1: of times. I think a lot of people in the crowd,
16:31
Speaker 1: maybe they look like they're watching but at some point
16:34
Speaker 1: they're not fully aware of what's going on.
16:36
Speaker 2: They're mostly just sunburnt and slightly inebriated.
16:39
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, at some point you can't tell the difference
16:41
Speaker 1: between the orange capes and just the orange sunburn. It's yeah,
16:44
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty much it. It is an interesting
16:47
Speaker 1: situation for it. Well, I like the way you put it.
16:49
Speaker 1: It is a first driver problem because you can't help
16:53
Speaker 1: but think. And I've been thinking about this this week
16:55
Speaker 1: because there's this idea that well, you know, we've got
16:57
Speaker 1: to the end of the regulation. This is certainly Christian
16:59
Speaker 1: Hornet's perspective. Okay, we've struggled in the last years of
17:01
Speaker 1: the regulations. He's blamed the old wind tunne a little bit.
17:04
Speaker 1: He's talked about well, this team's also designed that most
17:06
Speaker 1: dominant car in f On history a couple of years ago. Yeah,
17:09
Speaker 1: haven't become indiots overnight. Next year's regulation change is completely new,
17:14
Speaker 1: including with the power unit. It'll be a blank slate.
17:16
Speaker 1: We'll go back to being good again. But I can't
17:21
Speaker 1: help but think. I can't believe I'm making an analogy
17:22
Speaker 1: with Daniel Ricardo. Remarkable for an Australian doing such a thing.
17:26
Speaker 1: But remember when he joined McLaren in the preview the
17:29
Speaker 1: last year of the previous set of regulations. Now and
17:33
Speaker 1: we made the exact same assumptions. He couldn't needn't understand
17:35
Speaker 1: the car, didn't jar with the car, but you know,
17:36
Speaker 1: the regulations are going to change the following year, and
17:39
Speaker 1: he'll start from zero like everyone else, and it will
17:41
Speaker 1: be good. And yet he struggled in pretty much exactly
17:43
Speaker 1: the same way because it's the same team of designers
17:46
Speaker 1: who are designing the car, even if the regulations are different.
17:49
Speaker 1: When we're talking about things like the balance of the
17:51
Speaker 1: car and how you adjust that and the operating window. Yes,
17:54
Speaker 1: there's an aerodynamic component, and the aerodynamics are changing next year.
17:57
Speaker 1: But I've found it interesting how many different teams been saying, well,
18:00
Speaker 1: there are some things we can carry over to next year,
18:02
Speaker 1: because you know, suspension is fundamentally the same note of
18:05
Speaker 1: what car you build, and the tires are going to
18:07
Speaker 1: be the same next year, and all these interacting elements
18:10
Speaker 1: that Red Bull seems to be struggling with, at least
18:12
Speaker 1: a little bit or as a part of their struggles,
18:14
Speaker 1: will be built by the same people who built this
18:16
Speaker 1: year's car, and the same people who Adrian Nue since
18:18
Speaker 1: left the team has said refused or did not or
18:22
Speaker 1: could not recognize these problems when they began occurring in
18:25
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three because Max was making them look so
18:28
Speaker 1: good and are now playing catch up. Maybe you can't
18:31
Speaker 1: have as much confidence that that same group of people,
18:34
Speaker 1: using Max for staff and as their reference as they should,
18:37
Speaker 1: won't design a car with similar problems or some other
18:40
Speaker 1: problems that Max will be able to handle for a
18:42
Speaker 1: year or two until the land up down the same
18:44
Speaker 1: dead end road of development, by which point Dalla burned through,
18:49
Speaker 1: Isaac Kadjar and probably three or four other drivers two
18:52
Speaker 1: years down the road have brought Daniel kiveyat back presumably,
18:55
Speaker 1: and Hill have done no good as well. I think
18:57
Speaker 1: that it's too easy to say, well, we just got
18:59
Speaker 1: to it through this year and ride it off. I
19:01
Speaker 1: think this problem at Red Bull now it's nearly a
19:03
Speaker 1: decade sin Saniel Ricardo left. It's a long running thing. Yeah.
19:06
Speaker 2: And also the fact that you aren't just rolling through
19:09
Speaker 2: a very stable set of regulations for next year and
19:12
Speaker 2: so oh we might find something next year, or we
19:14
Speaker 2: could change the driver and it's all fine. There's a
19:16
Speaker 2: lot of trying to speak optimism into existence right now
19:19
Speaker 2: when you're looking at twenty six, because yeah, there's spinning
19:22
Speaker 2: a lot of plates for next year with a new
19:23
Speaker 2: engine partner, and there's a lot of change. As it
19:26
Speaker 2: is when you've got a second car that, no matter
19:29
Speaker 2: who drives it, contributes absolutely nothing, and then when you've
19:33
Speaker 2: got races like this that it just exposes the problem. Yeah,
19:38
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of unanswered questions there, and
19:40
Speaker 2: you've always got this is Max leaving? Is Max going
19:42
Speaker 2: to retire young? Is Max going to move to Mercedes?
19:45
Speaker 2: There's so much being placed upon him and about you.
19:48
Speaker 2: I think I never underrated Max Forstappan as a driver.
19:52
Speaker 2: I mean, the guy's won four World championships. He's clearly
19:54
Speaker 2: excellent at driving a Formula WLDE car. We've had a
19:56
Speaker 2: lot of evidence of that over a long period of time.
19:59
Speaker 2: I'm actually respecting a lot more what he's doing this year,
20:04
Speaker 2: simply because the car is clearly very difficult and he's
20:08
Speaker 2: just swimming upstream against the current every single weekend to
20:12
Speaker 2: try and get into a position to do anything. There's
20:14
Speaker 2: a bloody mindedness and a determination that is commendable with
20:19
Speaker 2: the way he's going about it. But it also feels
20:21
Speaker 2: like at some point the courage is just going to
20:22
Speaker 2: take him down stream when he can't keep swimming back
20:24
Speaker 2: up again. It's got a little bit of a feeling
20:26
Speaker 2: of that, whether it's being taken out unluckily on the
20:28
Speaker 2: first lap of a race, or they'll just come a
20:31
Speaker 2: point where the car just doesn't work and he's doing
20:34
Speaker 2: everything in his power to finish sixth Somewhere. That's going
20:38
Speaker 2: to be the period where you know they're in trouble now,
20:41
Speaker 2: that they could be in serious trouble for next year,
20:43
Speaker 2: because if I had to frame a market on who
20:46
Speaker 2: do I trust to get a new regulation set right
20:48
Speaker 2: for twenty twenty six, Red Bull aren't at the top
20:50
Speaker 2: for me, and they might not even be in the
20:52
Speaker 2: top two or three.
20:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that's a fair call. It's the
20:55
Speaker 1: great mystery of the regulation change, particular ones that are
20:57
Speaker 1: so big and include a power unit and red Will
20:59
Speaker 1: Racing speret inhouse power. It's interesting situation. Just before we
21:02
Speaker 1: move on, Matt red Bill scored twenty scored nineteen points
21:06
Speaker 1: in the last three races. Sober has scored twenty.
21:08
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you wrote this down that Saber has
21:11
Speaker 2: outscored every team except for McLaren Ferrari m Mercedes over
21:15
Speaker 2: the last three Grand Prix. So I'm glad you've bought
21:18
Speaker 2: sober up. Hat tip to them. Also on my list
21:21
Speaker 2: because we needed to talk about Liam laws and we've
21:22
Speaker 2: done that. Gabrielle brought a letto. He's looking quite good,
21:26
Speaker 2: isn't he.
21:26
Speaker 1: Yes. Finally, I mean imagine this, Matt. Imagine a team
21:30
Speaker 1: in Formula one giving a rookie more than five to
21:33
Speaker 1: six races to prove they belong in Formula one.
21:35
Speaker 2: What do you try to That's ridiculous talk from you, Lemonado,
21:38
Speaker 2: What are you talking about.
21:41
Speaker 1: Let's move to Move of the Week, brought to you
21:44
Speaker 1: by Shannon's Formula One and Moto GP in action over
21:48
Speaker 1: the course of the weekend. I'm going to kick us
21:51
Speaker 1: off today. I'm going to go with the Austrian Grand Prix.
21:53
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep it pretty straightforward though, because I
21:55
Speaker 1: thought this was a great move with a great bit
21:57
Speaker 1: of context behind it, which was what technically Lando Norris's
22:01
Speaker 1: overtake for the lead. I think it was on a
22:03
Speaker 1: lap eleven after Piastri had briefly taken it from him
22:06
Speaker 1: at turn three. He played the more clever tactical game,
22:11
Speaker 1: which is something that I feel like we've struggled to
22:14
Speaker 1: say about him almost ever. To be fair, he's only
22:18
Speaker 1: been in a race winning circumstance for a year or so,
22:22
Speaker 1: but particularly in the in contrast with last year when
22:25
Speaker 1: he was battling with Max Withstappen for the lead, and
22:28
Speaker 1: while the crash was Max's fault, there's no denying that
22:32
Speaker 1: in the sense of him not winning the race with
22:33
Speaker 1: a car that at the place to do it, I
22:35
Speaker 1: think Lando was guilty of just being too blunt of
22:37
Speaker 1: an instrument, of not really understanding the tactics of racing
22:40
Speaker 1: at this circuit that is unique three to our s zones.
22:42
Speaker 1: I think it's seventy percent of the track whatever it is,
22:44
Speaker 1: A lot of the track is dominated by drs. It
22:47
Speaker 1: is a certain way of racing. This year, he got
22:49
Speaker 1: it absolutely right when Oscar made the move up into
22:51
Speaker 1: turn three, understood how he could fight back from that,
22:54
Speaker 1: and he did exactly that. You know, because had he
22:56
Speaker 1: not done that, Oscar had taken the lead. I think
22:58
Speaker 1: it would have been pretty easy to imagine a Constants
23:00
Speaker 1: in which he just then controls the race there after
23:02
Speaker 1: and he's not seen again or fundamentally, so a really
23:05
Speaker 1: important overtake, one that shows that he is developing. When
23:08
Speaker 1: I think earlier this year it's been easy to say
23:10
Speaker 1: maybe he hasn't been particularly in a racecraft sense, which
23:13
Speaker 1: I think is a weakness reality of tu Oscar. So
23:16
Speaker 1: I think that made this victory just that a little
23:18
Speaker 1: bit more important, regardless of the bounce back from Canada,
23:21
Speaker 1: the points, all that stuff proving that he's made progress
23:24
Speaker 1: and he's doing it against his teammates, equal machinery, all
23:26
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. I thought it was a really
23:27
Speaker 1: important overtakes. That's my move of the week.
23:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly more important. You know that, the context and
23:32
Speaker 2: what it means, and even the fact of where it
23:34
Speaker 2: was because of Austria last year. I think they're all
23:37
Speaker 2: very good points. And I'll also give you an extra
23:39
Speaker 2: golf clap for use of blunt instrument because it's the
23:42
Speaker 2: for anyone playing lemonato bingo at home. You can cross
23:45
Speaker 2: that one off.
23:47
Speaker 1: All right, what do you got for us about?
23:49
Speaker 2: Well, I sort of in one of those uncharitable moods today,
23:53
Speaker 2: so I'm just going to let this one fly. I'm
23:55
Speaker 2: saying move of the Week was Kimmie Antonelli taking Max
23:57
Speaker 2: for staff and out at seven three on the opening
23:59
Speaker 2: lab simply because Michael, simply because it exposed the red
24:04
Speaker 2: Bull driver pipeline for what it is, basically a car crash,
24:08
Speaker 2: making us more aware of something that's actually a car
24:10
Speaker 2: craw So that's why I'm giving Kimmy Antonelli Move of
24:13
Speaker 2: the Week because it brought something into plain view that
24:16
Speaker 2: we all know that we all talk around the edges
24:18
Speaker 2: from time to time, and then what happened in the
24:19
Speaker 2: subsequent sixty nine and three quarter lapse of that race
24:23
Speaker 2: just expose that driver pipeline for what it is.
24:25
Speaker 1: Yes, I like it. I like a lot where you've
24:27
Speaker 1: taken that and like I said, move of the Week
24:30
Speaker 1: does not imply success, does not even imply and overtake,
24:33
Speaker 1: so perfectly happy for that loophole to be exploited. There's
24:38
Speaker 1: one other team I want to talk about, Matt in
24:40
Speaker 1: summing up the Austrian Grand Prix, and that's Alpine Alpine,
24:44
Speaker 1: which is owned by Reno, one of the biggest car
24:46
Speaker 1: companies in the world, also partially owned by the French state.
24:49
Speaker 1: Some people don't know that it's last in the Constructors Championship.
24:52
Speaker 1: It's scored just eleven points. That's less than half the
24:55
Speaker 1: total of Sauba, which is on a great run. Now
24:58
Speaker 1: looking at this race, Pierre Gasly qualified in the top ten,
25:01
Speaker 1: just tenth after he spent out the last warning, but
25:02
Speaker 1: unth less top ten. Franco Colobindo qualified in Q two's
25:06
Speaker 1: that's okay, that's fine, talk about him in a second
25:08
Speaker 1: as well, but failed to score. Both cars just went
25:11
Speaker 1: backwards through this race, and that's indicted well, not only
25:14
Speaker 1: because the cars went backwards, but this is a race
25:16
Speaker 1: in which only five of the front runners scored points.
25:19
Speaker 1: Two of them. Of course, will wiped out and Yuki
25:21
Speaker 1: Snoda was never at the races and both Williams cars,
25:23
Speaker 1: I think this is almost the more important part. They
25:25
Speaker 1: both retired in what's turning into a pretty horrendous mid
25:28
Speaker 1: season runner reliability for the team that looked pretty locked
25:31
Speaker 1: on for fifth in a Constructors champion twenty a few
25:33
Speaker 1: weeks ago. That should have been easy pickings for a
25:36
Speaker 1: team like Elpaine that had qualified again with one kind
25:39
Speaker 1: of the top ten, but it was South that got
25:40
Speaker 1: both cars into the points and good with them, but
25:42
Speaker 1: it's interesting to hear the language coming out of the
25:45
Speaker 1: team now Flaveerberatore, and it's up to you how you
25:48
Speaker 1: want to interpret all of the words, but it's called
25:51
Speaker 1: it increasingly concerning you, he said, and this was after
25:53
Speaker 1: on Saturday he said he was disappointed by Franco Colobinda
25:55
Speaker 1: not getting into the top ten, that he needs both
25:58
Speaker 1: cars to be there. Someone I assumably told him afterwards
26:02
Speaker 1: that he's only been in the car for five races
26:04
Speaker 1: to help him. But nonetheless, this is a team that's
26:07
Speaker 1: looking pretty shaky. And then there are reports on Monday,
26:09
Speaker 1: and I think this is where things start to get
26:11
Speaker 1: increasingly bizarre or highlights the chaos. That the teams are
26:15
Speaker 1: talking to valtri Botas or Mercedes to try and get
26:17
Speaker 1: the services of Volti Botas, not just for next year,
26:20
Speaker 1: but for this year.
26:21
Speaker 2: What on earth is going on now? I mean, it's
26:23
Speaker 2: the way you set that up earlier, and that you
26:25
Speaker 2: were talking about the context of what Alpine has done,
26:28
Speaker 2: and that Souber given the resource and the budget and
26:31
Speaker 2: the fact they run very very garish green cars that
26:35
Speaker 2: look like they don't belong in Formula one, the fact
26:37
Speaker 2: that they're comprehensively outperforming a team that is partially owned
26:41
Speaker 2: by the French state. I mean, put that together as
26:44
Speaker 2: a sentence, that doesn't make sense. It's absolutely crazy. What
26:47
Speaker 2: is not going on there. It just seems it seems reactionary,
26:52
Speaker 2: it seems rudderless, it seems there's just there's almost an
26:57
Speaker 2: inevitability now when you wat them that you just expect
27:01
Speaker 2: it to be no good. And part of that, I
27:05
Speaker 2: think is that it's talking about other drivers whose stocks
27:08
Speaker 2: and reputation are probably up this year. Pierre Gastly's driving
27:10
Speaker 2: very very well at the moment, and oh he used
27:13
Speaker 2: to drive a red bull racing remember that. But he's
27:15
Speaker 2: another guy who's been rehabilitated and gone off somewhere else
27:18
Speaker 2: and made a very good Formula One career for himself.
27:21
Speaker 2: I don't think that the problem is what he is
27:23
Speaker 2: doing necessarily. It just seems very haphazard. It seems even
27:27
Speaker 2: coming into this season, when you're a works outfit and
27:31
Speaker 2: you've made the decision to shut your own engine program down,
27:34
Speaker 2: even things like that at the start of the season,
27:36
Speaker 2: it's like, what are we actually doing here? And it's
27:39
Speaker 2: highlighted by Williams having this really strong start to the season. Yes,
27:45
Speaker 2: things have nosed dive pretty spectacularly since, but they have
27:48
Speaker 2: made what I believe is the very sensible decision to
27:52
Speaker 2: if we had a stable rule set for twenty twenty six,
27:54
Speaker 2: I think Williams would have pushed on and really and
27:57
Speaker 2: really taken that early season momentum and run with it.
27:59
Speaker 2: They're making the sensible decision. It's like, Okay, good, we
28:01
Speaker 2: can build a good car, we can do good things.
28:04
Speaker 2: Let's do that when everything changes then, so they're going
28:06
Speaker 2: to clearly tail off what Sauba doing at the moment
28:09
Speaker 2: is it's a product of stability and slight evolution and execution.
28:16
Speaker 2: It feels like Sauber get a lot of things right
28:18
Speaker 2: on race weekends at the moment, and these are the
28:20
Speaker 2: areas to me that Alpine is always left falling short.
28:23
Speaker 2: And then you've got the driver instability, and you know
28:26
Speaker 2: Jack doing at the start of the season refusing to
28:28
Speaker 2: answer questions about his future because he and we all
28:31
Speaker 2: knew exactly where that was going. And then Franco Colopinto
28:34
Speaker 2: comes in and he scores precisely the same number of
28:36
Speaker 2: points as Jack doing over his five races in the car,
28:39
Speaker 2: and the whole thing is completely chaotic. But you mentioned
28:41
Speaker 2: Valterie Botas. This is really interesting for me because yes,
28:45
Speaker 2: there's a Mercedes power plant going into that car for
28:47
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, but of course Botas has already been
28:50
Speaker 2: discussed in potentially being a Cadillac driver for next season.
28:56
Speaker 2: That's an interesting conundrum, isn't it, Because you've got a
28:59
Speaker 2: team that operationally and stability and management wise is a
29:02
Speaker 2: bit of a mess and our plane has been for
29:04
Speaker 2: a while. They're going to have an engine that I
29:07
Speaker 2: would almost put the house on is probably going to
29:09
Speaker 2: be the best engine in Formula One next year in
29:11
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six with a Mercedes engine. So there's a
29:14
Speaker 2: known quantity in terms of management and potentially engine, and
29:17
Speaker 2: he's also driven Mercedes powered cars a lot in his career.
29:20
Speaker 2: Or is the potential of a startup getting on the
29:24
Speaker 2: ground floor base camp Cadillac operation with a Ferrari power plant,
29:28
Speaker 2: which is more probably of an unknown than Mercedes. You'd
29:31
Speaker 2: have to say the fact that Valsi Botas has potentially
29:34
Speaker 2: got two options is two more options than we probably
29:36
Speaker 2: thought he'd have to get back on the grid. But
29:38
Speaker 2: if he does have two options, there's no easy answer
29:41
Speaker 2: to that is there because there's compelling cases for both.
29:44
Speaker 2: I don't think either of them are wrong, but one
29:46
Speaker 2: of them is going to be more right.
29:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right, because it's just funny that
29:52
Speaker 1: there's a choice at all. Forether of these drivers, I
29:55
Speaker 1: mean their fortunately Cadillac's coming in. Otherwise all of this
29:57
Speaker 1: could be Bizarren. We shouldn't forget that. Alpines also farming
30:00
Speaker 1: out paul aarro On. It's reserve driver at a Saber
30:02
Speaker 1: for a couple of FP one sessions before the mid
30:04
Speaker 1: season break, plus three it's got planned for later in
30:07
Speaker 1: the year and he's potentially in the frame, you know,
30:09
Speaker 1: as a contingency at a minimum. So that's sort of
30:12
Speaker 1: interesting in its own right. But let me sell you
30:15
Speaker 1: alp in two different ways.
30:17
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to this.
30:18
Speaker 1: One is the Renault owned works manufacturer Alpe know it
30:22
Speaker 1: is Reno by another name. It's just a different color
30:25
Speaker 1: with a great history of championship winning success. B it's
30:28
Speaker 1: the independent team that's going to finish the last in
30:30
Speaker 1: the Constructors Championship with less than half the points of
30:33
Speaker 1: the team that was last last year. Because that's what
30:35
Speaker 1: it is. Next year, it's owned by a big company,
30:38
Speaker 1: but it will no longer be a works team. It's
30:41
Speaker 1: a team that fields, like with the exception of Flavio
30:44
Speaker 1: Brittorio has a remit to report to the board at
30:47
Speaker 1: Reno or the CEO who's now leaving the team, so
30:49
Speaker 1: that throws that into uncertainty on a different level. Feels
30:52
Speaker 1: like it's at arm's length from the works team anyway,
30:55
Speaker 1: certainly different from Ferrari is an example, different even to Mercedes, which,
30:58
Speaker 1: even though Mercedes only owns a third of the Mercedes
31:00
Speaker 1: F one team, the collaboration is close and historical and
31:04
Speaker 1: likewise with the engine component of that team. Cadillac, on
31:07
Speaker 1: the other hand, yeah, it's running Ferrari customer engines next year.
31:09
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone expects them to do great things
31:11
Speaker 1: even in the first few years, but will be a
31:13
Speaker 1: real works team later eventually. So there's something there. I
31:19
Speaker 1: think you can you could you know if you were
31:21
Speaker 1: a Cadillac at least you're Mari Andrettie talking to Valdri
31:24
Speaker 1: Botas or Sergio Peris, because he's been rumored to be
31:26
Speaker 1: linked to Alpine as well. I think that's gone pretty
31:27
Speaker 1: cold recently. I think the pitch is probably easier to
31:31
Speaker 1: make for Cadillac, because then you've got to add in
31:33
Speaker 1: the fact that I think Cadillac is going to be
31:36
Speaker 1: certain inn F one for a minimum and a long
31:38
Speaker 1: amount of time, right, Like the minimum time is going
31:41
Speaker 1: to be long because you don't make this kind of
31:43
Speaker 1: investment and then leaving three ys, it's not going to happen.
31:45
Speaker 1: Alpine's future to me looks pretty uncertain because, like I said,
31:48
Speaker 1: the CEO is left unexpected, he's got a job elsewhere,
31:51
Speaker 1: and he's always insisted the team's not for sale. But
31:53
Speaker 1: like you said, they've shouted their engine division. A lot
31:55
Speaker 1: of the moves they've made looks like a team that
31:58
Speaker 1: wants to be sold. And more important that we don't
32:00
Speaker 1: know what the next CEO's opinion is going to be,
32:02
Speaker 1: regardless of the fact the team has denied consistently that
32:05
Speaker 1: they're up for sale and so far they haven't been sold.
32:07
Speaker 1: They've been right. There is a new CEO arriving. We
32:10
Speaker 1: don't know who it's going to be. We don't know
32:11
Speaker 1: what their opinion on the Formula one program is going
32:13
Speaker 1: to be, and the massive expense of that it could
32:15
Speaker 1: be sold, it could be closed. We don't know. So
32:17
Speaker 1: if you're looking for a Valtriebot has not looking for
32:19
Speaker 1: a one year deal just to prove you could get
32:21
Speaker 1: back in F one. He's looking for a couple of
32:23
Speaker 1: years at least. The team could cease to exist in
32:25
Speaker 1: that time. I think, actually it's a big question. I'm
32:28
Speaker 1: not saying you should definitely not choose Alpine because it
32:30
Speaker 1: could be a root of the grid in as little
32:32
Speaker 1: as two weeks, who knows, But I think the question
32:36
Speaker 1: of the long term is a much bigger one than
32:38
Speaker 1: you would have thought, maybe even twelve months ago. Yeah.
32:40
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And the other parts of this too is there's
32:42
Speaker 2: an expectation management element to all of this because of
32:46
Speaker 2: Alpine's name, and it's you know, it's longevity in the
32:50
Speaker 2: sport and what have you. Anything that Botas would do
32:53
Speaker 2: in Cadillac. There's that sort of underpromise over deliver, like
32:56
Speaker 2: no one's expecting Botas to come in and all of
32:58
Speaker 2: a sudden being Q three in next year. Fantastic if
33:01
Speaker 2: it happens. So every result that Cadillac get next year,
33:04
Speaker 2: it'll be well, they're a startup there and youw team,
33:06
Speaker 2: haven't they done well? You know, one of their cars
33:08
Speaker 2: just MISQ three that was excellent. What about that really
33:11
Speaker 2: good twelfth that Valteri Botas got in Bahrain or something.
33:14
Speaker 2: Whereas if you go to alp and it's got a
33:15
Speaker 2: Mercedes in the back of it and you're finishing twelfth,
33:17
Speaker 2: it's a disaster and the world is on fire. So
33:20
Speaker 2: the same results could happen but be interpreted two very
33:24
Speaker 2: very different ways, simply based on where these two teams
33:28
Speaker 2: and entities are in their Formula one journeys. If you're
33:30
Speaker 2: looking for a longer runway and perhaps longevity and the sport,
33:33
Speaker 2: if you're Valterie Botas, you'd probably be going to Cadillac
33:37
Speaker 2: because everything that you do that's positive is going to
33:40
Speaker 2: be celebrated far more than well, that was positive what
33:43
Speaker 2: you did at alp But why wasn't it more positive
33:45
Speaker 2: because your Alpene you should be doing better than this.
33:47
Speaker 2: So look, the Mercedes power plant is a pretty big
33:51
Speaker 2: character dangle in front of somebody in particularly because he
33:53
Speaker 2: knows how that company works. But I'm with you, like
33:56
Speaker 2: the whole thing with Alpine, is in any other business,
33:59
Speaker 2: any other sort of to sport business or sport business
34:01
Speaker 2: or just business per se, with the amount of decisions
34:04
Speaker 2: that have gone on behind the scenes there. It feels
34:06
Speaker 2: like something that is being prepared to be sold despite
34:10
Speaker 2: the denials to the country. And it's felt like that
34:12
Speaker 2: for a while. And you and I know that if
34:15
Speaker 2: you woke up tomorrow morning, look at your phone, it's like, oh,
34:18
Speaker 2: do you hear al Peina pulling out of Formula one?
34:20
Speaker 2: You'd go wow, But then you'd go, well, yeah, okay,
34:23
Speaker 2: that makes complete sense, whereas I don't think Cadillac are
34:25
Speaker 2: going to go, look, we've done all this prap, we
34:27
Speaker 2: we've spent all this buddey, we've hired all these people.
34:29
Speaker 2: But no, thanks, we don't want to do that. And
34:32
Speaker 2: that's a key difference between these two teams. So look,
34:35
Speaker 2: hoay fa valtrie Botouse. He's got choices. Certainly we didn't
34:38
Speaker 2: expect that. But I wonder if the incumbent team, with
34:42
Speaker 2: the history that Alpine's got, is actually going to be
34:45
Speaker 2: seen as the worst of the two choices for whoever
34:47
Speaker 2: takes that seat.
34:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is pretty remarkable. Just quickly. It's just reminds
34:51
Speaker 1: us speaking of a colleague and different podcasts. Actually, and
34:54
Speaker 1: he put it to me like this, and I really
34:55
Speaker 1: liked it. First, I thought it was just a brutal
34:57
Speaker 1: bit of commentary, but I think actually it sums up
35:00
Speaker 1: is that Alpine Alping is not at the bottom yet.
35:03
Speaker 1: I think that's the most alarming part, because they're not.
35:06
Speaker 1: If you look at their structure of Alpine and I
35:08
Speaker 1: know that part of the biggest problems. They don't have
35:10
Speaker 1: a team principle at the moment. But you can't tell
35:13
Speaker 1: me that that is the structure the senior managers. Who
35:16
Speaker 1: is going to take this team to success. Maybe, look,
35:18
Speaker 1: you people have different opinions on flav bet Or. I
35:20
Speaker 1: get it, but he's not there for the long term.
35:23
Speaker 1: He's already pretty old. He's got some old school ideas
35:25
Speaker 1: clearly on how they run the team, and I just
35:26
Speaker 1: don't see it being I just don't see, you know,
35:29
Speaker 1: the next time Alpine wins a race, you know, purely
35:30
Speaker 1: on merit is in Bodihuim contention, I can't see him
35:32
Speaker 1: being there going, oh well, I've I'm sure he will
35:35
Speaker 1: say it was all up to him, but I can't
35:36
Speaker 1: see him being there as the one who orchestrated at all.
35:38
Speaker 1: They don't have a team principal. Technical leadership has changed
35:42
Speaker 1: a lot in recent years, it doesn't feel like they're
35:45
Speaker 1: at and by rock bottom. I don't just mean they
35:47
Speaker 1: potentially could get worse, but I mean they're not at
35:49
Speaker 1: base camp. I think maybe he's a more clear way
35:51
Speaker 1: to say, they're not at that point where you can
35:53
Speaker 1: see the route to the top yet, whereas with Cadillac
35:57
Speaker 1: they are at they're at the start of thing. You know,
36:00
Speaker 1: we don't know when they'll ever win a race or a
36:02
Speaker 1: championship away, it's impossible to say, but they are at
36:04
Speaker 1: the start of something. Everything Valtrie does that's good there
36:07
Speaker 1: would have contributed to the foundations of the team or
36:09
Speaker 1: any driver who goes there. I just thought it was
36:12
Speaker 1: very interesting to think about the idea that helping is
36:15
Speaker 1: still further to go.
36:16
Speaker 2: No, you're right, Cadillacs at the start of something and
36:19
Speaker 2: Alpine might not be at the end of something else.
36:21
Speaker 2: And that's that's the easiest way to describe it at
36:24
Speaker 2: the moment. But the interesting choice for botasid all of this,
36:26
Speaker 2: because clearly he's not a guy who's going to be
36:28
Speaker 2: driving forever in a day. Either is there's a brand
36:32
Speaker 2: association AMBASSADORI or you can hit your you can hit
36:37
Speaker 2: yourself to a project that's got instant credibility and gravitas
36:41
Speaker 2: as you go forward, as opposed to something that, like
36:44
Speaker 2: I said, if you wake up tomorrow morning and the
36:45
Speaker 2: whole thing was in the bin, you wouldn't be surprised
36:47
Speaker 2: with Alpine. So yeah, there's more than just driving to
36:50
Speaker 2: consider with these sorts of things. And you know, all
36:53
Speaker 2: these guys of someone of his reputation and the ILK
36:55
Speaker 2: and Grand Prix winning experience has made enough cash at
36:57
Speaker 2: this point, so it's not just about that either. So yeah,
37:00
Speaker 2: it's certainly interesting. And you know the question there is
37:03
Speaker 2: if he ends up taking the Alpine seat, then who's
37:05
Speaker 2: in the frame for Cadillac or vice versa, Because yeah,
37:08
Speaker 2: like you were saying, Alpine's got about six hundred reserve drivers,
37:11
Speaker 2: they might all get three races each before the end
37:12
Speaker 2: of the year.
37:15
Speaker 1: All Right, that was the Austrian Grand Prix and a
37:17
Speaker 1: little bit of that news that's come out since then
37:20
Speaker 1: the British Grand Prixx this weekend, so you don't have
37:22
Speaker 1: to wait long for more Formula one. But let's have
37:25
Speaker 1: a crack at thinking looking at what's going to be
37:26
Speaker 1: happening with the Crystal Ball. Brought to you by complete
37:29
Speaker 1: home filtration. Matt, would you like to start us off?
37:32
Speaker 1: What are you? What's in your forecast? Now?
37:34
Speaker 2: Look, if you don't blow your own trumpet in this
37:35
Speaker 2: mic where no one's going to So I'm just going
37:37
Speaker 2: to remind you and everyone listening that I actually picked
37:39
Speaker 2: Lando Norris to win the Austrian Grand Prix, so good
37:42
Speaker 2: victory that for me. I'm only going to mention these
37:45
Speaker 2: things when I get them right. You'll never hear me
37:46
Speaker 2: mention it when I don't. But my crystal ball this
37:49
Speaker 2: week has been fitted with a very impressive square jaw
37:52
Speaker 2: line in honor of Mark Weber. Obviously, Mark Webber of
37:55
Speaker 2: course banishes Oscar Pastre and Mark Webber was as good
37:59
Speaker 2: at his home grownd pri as Jensen Button was at
38:01
Speaker 2: his home Grand Prix, and that Jensen Button would always
38:03
Speaker 2: win in Australia. Mark Webber won several times at Silveston,
38:07
Speaker 2: and both of them never fired a shot at their
38:08
Speaker 2: home Grand Prix, which is a very long way of
38:11
Speaker 2: saying that the British McLaren driver is not going to
38:14
Speaker 2: win at Silveston this weekend. Oscar Piastre is so Sky
38:18
Speaker 2: Sports can put the pomp Poms back in the box
38:21
Speaker 2: Bristol and Glastonbury tetowls flying at half masted over Silveston
38:25
Speaker 2: this weekend. I think we're going to see an Australian
38:27
Speaker 2: winning at Silverston, and I think Oscar Piastre is going
38:29
Speaker 2: to bounce back and take victory.
38:31
Speaker 1: I like it a lot. I like it a lot.
38:33
Speaker 1: My prediction. My Crystal Ball tell me some really specific things, though,
38:37
Speaker 1: I think might tally well with yours. I think we're
38:40
Speaker 1: going to hear a record number in the broadcast of
38:42
Speaker 1: the plural third person possessive determiner, a lot of our George's,
38:47
Speaker 1: our allies, our Lewis, depending on how he's performing, our
38:51
Speaker 1: Alex otherwise he's from Thailand. Yes, and of course I'm
38:54
Speaker 1: going to hear a lot about our nine and our Damon.
38:56
Speaker 1: I bet they're going to be there. Ian's also tally
38:59
Speaker 1: when I think I'm going to be spot on with
39:00
Speaker 1: this one. The Crystal World's telling me that the Lewis
39:03
Speaker 1: Hamilton's honorific of sir is going to be wheeled out
39:05
Speaker 1: quite a bit. Oh yes, Sir Lewis Helenon Ferrari hasn't.
39:08
Speaker 1: I haven't heard it in a while, but if it's
39:10
Speaker 1: ever going to happen. It's going to be at the
39:11
Speaker 1: British Grand Prix, which Matt, I'm sure you'll be reminded
39:14
Speaker 1: many times, is the first Grand Prix. It's coming home
39:17
Speaker 1: former World War air field and you know Sterling Moss,
39:21
Speaker 1: et cetera.
39:22
Speaker 2: Can we take the listeners behind the curtains slightly here.
39:25
Speaker 2: I'm not going to completely reveal all the contents of this,
39:27
Speaker 2: but I do believe that I still haven't saved in
39:30
Speaker 2: my phone somewhere that you made a Bingo card of
39:32
Speaker 2: things that will be said on the commentary during the
39:34
Speaker 2: British Grand Prix. We should post it somewhere if we
39:36
Speaker 2: don't get ourselves sacked in the meantime. But I think
39:39
Speaker 2: I had the whole Bingo card filled out by like
39:41
Speaker 2: the first ten minutes of FP two a couple of
39:44
Speaker 2: years ago. So all the old ones are going to
39:46
Speaker 2: come out, but the use of our is going to
39:49
Speaker 2: be absolutely fantastic. And pstre He is from that place
39:52
Speaker 2: where we used to send the convicts and everything as well,
39:53
Speaker 2: so I certainly won't do anything.
39:57
Speaker 1: Look you'll see they will all be ticked off very rapid.
40:00
Speaker 1: I am confident I think we've both made good predictions.
40:03
Speaker 1: We'll find out how they go next week. But that's
40:04
Speaker 1: all the time we have for bit talk today. You
40:06
Speaker 1: can subscribe to bittalk wherever you get your favorite podcasts,
40:09
Speaker 1: and you can leave us a rating and a review
40:11
Speaker 1: as well. This weekend it is the Formula one British
40:13
Speaker 1: Grand Prix, with lights out at midnight Sunday night. You
40:17
Speaker 1: can keep up to date for the latest F one,
40:18
Speaker 1: supercars and MotoGP news at Fox Sports dot com dot
40:21
Speaker 1: Au from Matt Clayton and me Michael Lomonado. Thanks very
40:24
Speaker 1: much for your company and we'll catch you next week.