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IDL Depth Chart 8/2/26 · Filmstudy - Baltimore Ravens Talk

• 0:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi folks, welcome to their episode of Film Study.
• 0:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Ken McHughsick.
• 0:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have a short for you tonight.
• 0:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about the inside at the interior defensive line depth on this team now.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this has been creating a wonky situation is the broader Washington renegotiation that we're going to talk about.
• 0:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Join me to do that.
• 0:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's Spencer Peterson.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Spencer, how are you doing?
• 0:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Doing well.
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ken, thanks for having me on.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: appreciate having on a you know a finance guy to talk about a a finance topic here uh... so the recent product question two million for two thousand twenty six additional two hundred fifty thousand incentives are possible with the orders incentives to be earned they'd be tagged on to the two thousand twenty seven cap so it's a two million dollar savings
• 0:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: for this season, the Ravens got.
• 0:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that contract is broken out as a $1.25 million salary for this season and that's fully guaranteed by the way.
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And 750,000 of a signing bonus.
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to tell you one some other possibilities, but we're the Ravens to trade, brother, Washington, perspective here at some point.
• 1:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to eat 750,000 one way or another at the minimum.
• 1:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was pretty surprised to see that it was fully guaranteed at first.
• 1:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think we'll get into why that might make sense.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that was surprising when I first saw that come across.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: So our big question here is, what does that do to the Raven's step chart of the interior defensive line?
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I just want to remind people where we are right now across this defensive line.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because there's a lot of players just point well in practice.
• 1:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the press rush seems to be really doing well.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a position of depth and yet most of the guys on the defensive line haven't been playing yet.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Travis Jones and John Jenkins, I'll start with our still on the PUP list, Jenkins with an undisclosed injury and Jones with a peck injury that can be a pretty serious thing.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Apparently he's had some surgery.
• 1:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: We know how long it took for real to get right after that in 2012 and he fairly remarkably was back on the field after what about
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see, it was 20 weeks.
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 20 weeks, well, okay, so it was injured.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think in a week five, I think it was back the first game of the playoffs.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it was not, it was a good, good fast recovery for him.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we don't know how bad the tear was in that case either.
• 2:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: John Jenkins, I've seen on the, on field three, they were, they're playing on field one yesterday, or sorry, I'm sorry.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Saturday on practice.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now Saturday was the stadium Friday at practice.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Jenkins was on field three doing some drills that looked pretty movement intensive for a big man, a lot of lateral movement stuff.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that kind of rules out some of the possible.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: injury types that have might have been and it was a it was good to see if he looks like he's probably closer to a trade practice.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've seen Manipike on the sideline a couple of one day anyway and on uniform at least two days and when he's come on he's done a little bit of work on the side as well.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's off PUP which is a very big deal for some reasons we should get into.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and one of the things that's interesting is if we're talking about this from the injury lens with Medabike back, but then Jones and Jenkins still sideline, Washington is not a you know, player type substitute for either of those latter two guys who are, you know, true nose tip.
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Travis Jones does everything, but Jenkins is very much a true nose tackle through and through.
• 3:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, brighter question, it would take Jones's role as a three tech on early downs, but he couldn't take Jones if they were, if they, you know, wouldn't have a nose tackle, but it could be a, it could be a situation where Jenkins and brighter question, you could play next to each other on early downs.
• 3:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, absolutely fair enough.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just more that, you know, if you think about who the,
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: for lack of a better term, most injured guys are.
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that, you know, presumptive start a 53 man cohort.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: He does not seem like a good kind of substitution for either of those.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, fair enough point.
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying, you really have to have a second nose tackle on your team of some type.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't just rely on, on broader Washington to be the backup nose, say, you need somebody like a coie to be a backup nose that would make more sense.
• 4:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I agree with that.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's based on what Mitcher has said and I don't know how to take this because Mitcher said that those guys are going to be ready for the beginning of training camp.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mitcher's new projection is the end of the first week of August and I don't know what that means.
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that means they come off PAP then and they start working on the side more and then they're ready for the season but they don't play in preseason anyway, maybe they don't even do any live fire, I don't know what it means, but that was the latest projection of what he's saying.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: you get in that role and I really thought the injury talk would be something big test for midter in terms of whether or not he could be super quiet about the injury front and he seems to have some of the same characteristics that you hear from a hardball wanting to give a date on injuries.
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think I'm I don't know that I thought deeply about it several years ago but you I'm now of the same mind that I think U.S. Bows can which is
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: The best comment is just not saying anything.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, refer to the injury report and that's it.
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: These tourists as possible.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our only comment is, is no comment.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll take any questions about the, about the Colts game.
• 5:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what it ought to be.
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, not only made at B.K., the fact that he's off P.O.P, we got to talk about that a little bit.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: That overcomes probably the biggest hurdle of him certainly returning to play is that the Ravens doctors have cleared him physically to play.
• 5:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what this means.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a big risk with that that something further would have were to go wrong.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: effectively guaranteed by the fact that the Ravens would take a, you know, a big cap it to eat it.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was a major stage gate that got passed through.
• 6:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you and Vas were talking about this maybe a week or two ago, or on a Friday morning GM, and there was a very open question of, you know, he had been cleared by his doctors, but that doesn't mean the Ravens are, you know, when will he actually be back?
• 6:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that he's already off Pup for the Ravens, that's a major stage gate clear for him.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, unbelievable, frankly, that he's out this quick.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now we haven't seen what all in any kind of drills.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not even positional drills.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: He hasn't been up against a sled.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: He hasn't been, you know, that I've seen and they kind of hand or foot placement stuff.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's been on, you know, working on the side on a individual conditioning, oh my, I did come out in uniform though, and the crowd obviously went wild for that.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: The syntax of the way it was being discussed, his situation is being discussed, led me to believe there might have been legitimate friction between the Ravens doctors and his, that that was one of the possible things, also that he'd just be considering retirement, but he's obviously really wanted to play and great to see him back.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and there were potential questions about, you know, what he had been cleared by his own doctors, but the Ravens had, you know, is this, you know, vaporware of some sorts is not real, but the Ravens have no incentive to clear him and get him on the field here.
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: If this were, if they, there was not some actual path to him be on the field this year.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So,
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, kind of, without reservation, this makes me more optimistic about, you know, directly more optimistic about him being on the field and being a potential contributor to this here.
• 7:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we still need to see how much you can play and how well he can play.
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know that, but but he's, this is of the three biggest is will he play at all.
• 7:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think this was the biggest of the three.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: hurdles to him being going back to a player who's, say, 80% of what we knew just there might have to be, or not be about a big hit to be.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's move on.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Collears Campbell.
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Family tragedy, obviously, you know, the terrible interweeds of that, I don't want to get into.
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just say, we had a family next door to us growing up that had a similar situation where the child of the family killed two grandparents, just an awful, awful situation.
• 8:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know how the family ever recovers from that kind of thing, but the interesting thing was, Clayus, is on the field at Maryland, working his way into camp shape is how
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: on the on the field at Maryland, and they didn't have a lot of space either.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: But he really, you know, it's been the point.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's been made that he doesn't really need the reps.
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's been a leak for 20 years.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's not one blessed thing that he's going to learn from camp.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, he could probably could have been signed September 10th, and that would have been fine for him getting ready to play on September 15th.
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, the only thing is, you know, just helpful to have, have them in the building and ease of professional, I don't know that you really are so concerned about his conditioning or anything like that, but it's always good to just, you know, have them putting on pads, have them at least jogging, et cetera, so that they're, you know, the shape they're in is where you want them to be a week one, but the minimal concern with, with Campbell there.
• 9:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, but you know, I can't rule out retirement for Campbell.
• 9:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't even rule it out for Manabike for that reason.
• 9:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: If he tries this and it doesn't feel right or something happens, I mean, he could be him not playing in 26 anyway.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't rule out the possibility that Jones and Jenkins don't really have the positive prognosis that's being framed up by, by mid to so far.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Those look to me like four roster locks at this point.
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: then you've got product Washington you've just given him guaranteed money and that's got to be an indication that his chance to make the team is good we can talk about whether or not you know insurance policy is really the right way to look at it but the Ravens only normally only carry five defensive linemen on their 53 and when you look at who else is on the outside looking in it's an awful lot of talent that the Ravens could be letting go come cut down day.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think there's a couple layers to this to the point about I think if you zoom out and think about projections for the 53 man, I think at least my kind of written and pencil version of that always had five interior defense of lineman.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think if you look at the other positions, I don't see them going more than four and nor do I see them going a lot fewer than four inside linebackers.
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, with cloudy signing, and I don't want to go too far to the field of the tangent, they're kind of one option to replace a decent Isaac has gone, but sort of assumed five there.
• 10:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then with what you have in the corner group, and that just kind of long tail of corners they need to work through, it's kind of hard to believe that they would go six, you know, interior events of alignment and potentially remove a spot that could be used in the secondary.
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, kind of in the first wave of consideration here.
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I find it hard to believe they go above five defensive linemen.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then second point to thinking about the 53-man roster projections, I think most everyone Washington was a presumptive, you know, outside looking in, very far outside looking in, there's plenty of fans who have been wondering, why has it even cut yet?
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I sort of was always of the mind that until
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: there became really serious injury risk that the Ravens were well suited to keep their optionality open there.
• 11:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think the cap dollars were burning a whole new pocket that they needed to design someone immediately.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now that could have changed if there was a Lamar deal that somehow put pressure on this year's cap, but I think for his structure that doesn't make sense.
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, potentially a flower is extension that put pressure on this year's cap, potentially, but even then the structure probably wouldn't work out that way.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there was really no compelling reason.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: for the Ravens who can see their optionality with respect to broader question in the future.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I, you know, we're sitting here on Sunday night recording this on the second of August, and the third of August in the morning is gonna be the Ravens first padded practice.
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in some ways, that's a great point of risk.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Additionally, the Ravens want to avoid is the possibility of brother getting hurt on a four million dollar contract where the Ravens would have to pay the whole thing.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: So they wouldn't be excited, obviously, about that happening.
• 12:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, injury risk is, you know, it's a great point you've made.
• 12:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe you talked about derisking that salary.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe let's talk that through right now and then I want to go back to something about some things about the SnapCount
• 12:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, of course.
• 12:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So brought Washington his cap this year, or at least the relevant cap it was $4 million of base salary.
• 12:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so with the way the NFL rules work that, you know, if tomorrow he goes on the field in Twisted's Day, it was going to be out for the year.
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Ravens would be on the hook for that full $4 million.
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so,
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: as those kind of realistic opportunities for him to get hurt and potentially have that financial liability or cap liability for the Ravens, become real.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is the point or the decision point where they have to really think about that because if he did, you know, it was playing basketball, something off-contract or something not allowed, they could have, you know, kind of way out of that potentially.
• 13:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: But now,
• 13:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're sort of up against it.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're having to weigh the decision of, do we want to have brother washing around for the optionality of backfilling one of our defensive line spots, potentially trading at the end of camp, you know, as other teams lose players and weighing that up against the risk of, okay, if he goes down in preseason game one or one of our practices were on the hook for that salary.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I think what we're seeing with this deal that was worked out, uh,
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: which is not just a pay cut but also some guaranteeing a money is a meeting in the middle of of sorts to kind of address that point.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right well from broader caution and perspective he wants to know he's playing in the NFL this year and this gives he's that effectively whether it's for the Ravens or for somebody else you know he's going to get two million dollars and he might earn some incentives as well that's certainly possible.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think D risking is a great way to put it, you know, they obviously want to get the injury, risk off the table.
• 14:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: They want to take some of the risks that accrued these other four players off the table.
• 14:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then, yes, it's not a perfect one for one thing, but maybe Campbell is the guy he's the best one for one replacement for.
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if that were the case, I mean, I just can't put a zero possibility that Campbell's going to not play this year.
• 14:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So,
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and maybe one other thing that just came to mind is it's not just the risking and this is saying the same thing but a different direction, but in some ways they've banked two million of the savings that they could have taken from cutting him at the end of camp and so they've said, you know, we're getting at least that if we have to.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Pay him if we have to play him, if he gets injured, if we, whatever happens, we at least have that 2 million in the bank salvaged, and it could, we could do better, but we can't do any worse than at least saving 2 million dollars.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: They can do a little bit better, potentially, if they created Colleus Campbell, I'm sorry, if they traced out of these.
• 15:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: If the traded Bride of Washington got rid of the 1.25 million off their books and maybe got a little bit of draft capital return.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a fixed for float situation.
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is kind of like trading on there where you're, you know, the Ravens are the fixed rate,
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: the fixed rate buyers, right?
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because they're taking that two million and instead of the four million wave, we'll take our chances, we'll wait until the end of the camp, and the Google still cut you kind of thing.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they've probably paid a little bit for that right to reduce it.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: But looking at the rest of the roster, before we get into the other players who are now on the outside looking in, we have to talk about, what do we expect
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: to look like on game day.
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, first of all, I think they'll have five interior defensive linemen on game day, at least I hope they deal because anybody who's ever read my inactive reports, though, how much I spas out when the Ravens have four active on game day and how stupid I think that is.
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, it's a big risk when they do it, but this Ravens team
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: will play very little base defense.
• 16:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a good reason for it is that they really last year leaned into big nickel being a substitute for many of their face snaps.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't mean they don't play any.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: They still play to 9% in change of base and they played another 2% of jumbo, but they only played
• 16:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: 2.04 defensive linemen per game, it's sorry, per snap last year.
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now what that means, 2.04, what are you trying to even tell me, what I'm trying to say is you divide that number by five, if you have five active guys, that means those guys have to average 41% of the stats, 40.8.
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, times five is equal to 2.04.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And,
• 17:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's a normal kind of a rotational load.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Travis Jones probably plays a lot more than that.
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe Chris Campbell plays somewhat more than that.
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: John Jenkins can play more, but he can also play less.
• 17:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then you have Washington and whoever else else's active would be playing the rest of that.
• 17:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's, I think it's a very manageable level.
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think they could be lower this year.
• 17:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: in terms of defensive alignment per play because of several several reasons.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: One is that they have outside linebackers this year where they had real shortages last year who can kick inside.
• 17:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: They had tapious robins have lost for a period of time.
• 17:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: They had, you know, they were down outside linebackers.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: They lost tapious Robinson when he's leading the defense the front seven in steps at that point in the season.
• 17:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, just a bunch of things can go wrong, but when you have Robinson and young,
• 17:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: who can each kick inside, you have the potential to play fewer defensive linemen per play.
• 18:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, we hope they want Maddie PK in there every third down the whole year, and that would be, you know, provide less opportunity for that, but it would also mean that Maddie PK is playing well.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's also why, I think we've talked about this at times before, I kind of like the current roster construction approach they're taking, being a little more overweight towards nos tackles on the roster.
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: One, I think, is an efficient use of cap that not just, you know, pursuing past rushing through tax up and down the roster.
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 18:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's great if you have bad to be gay, you can get them out there, but then you've got,
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: You've got Jones, you've got Jenkins, you've got Cheyette of a Quay on the roster which they did last year at one point they were carrying four guys.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: But both in terms of going, you know, not going base and so maybe you have two heavies on the field when you go big nickel or some other nickel front against what might be a run run offense of package.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, it's always going to be true that you would have two heavies on the field unless you have one or zero.
• 18:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you can never have three.
• 18:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the important point when you have a nickel on the field.
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, and when I say two heavies, I don't mean just two interior defensive linemen.
• 19:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, two big, two big nose tackle types.
• 19:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 19:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I gotta be clear about that.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is possible.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can play the jumbo nickel and you just go with one inside linebacker.
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not something I see the Raven's doing, but it could show up some this year.
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: But most of the time, the Raven's are going to be playing two defensive linemen.
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: In my broader point just being that I kind of like that roster construction kind of not seeding the three tech, but you know also supplementing it with edge guys that can kick inside as well on passing downs if you want to go that round and it feels like an efficient use of your roster construction versus trying to have some of the more expensive players to pursue kind of at every positional group.
• 19:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's definitely true and they've looked for to save money in that way.
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it also kind of gives you the flexibility to allow you to exploit the flexibility of a Travis Jones.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's already paid for where you can play him at 1 or 3.
• 19:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's probably plenty of situations where playing him at one will drive the pass rush to a greater degree when you're when you own a pass rushing down, but there may be other times where you want him as in as you're three tech on an early down when you got to take me to be case got to take some snacks off playing next to John Jenkins and give you a gives you some pretty good pass rush for me inside even when you're also trying to defend the run.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 20:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, go back a few years, 2023, the Ravens, he's 2.2 defensive linemen per play.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Part of that was 17.5% base.
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: They want to approach that this year.
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe, and 1.3% jumbo.
• 20:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you look at those two together, by the way, very easy to do math on this, because you see 17.5% base, that's those are three defensive linemen snaps basically.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And 1.3% jumbo double that for having two extra linemen.
• 20:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you could technically have three,
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: 2.6 plus 17.5 is 20.1 and they average 2.20 defensive linemen per place.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: It really makes sense that they didn't really use anything but a second inside lineback of that season.
• 21:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't go to a lot of rush nickel, which would have been a three outside linebacker package or kicking outside linebacker inside as we talk about it.
• 21:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a, I don't, I don't see the Ravens,
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: going as extreme this year in that regard.
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I think this could be a year where Matt Epique isn't even really used as a close-out player.
• 21:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: He may want to.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the Ravens Vigis want to control his snaps and, you know, you're up by two three touchdowns.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: You take Matt Epique off the field.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would love to see more, you know, a race car potentially is the close-out package.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a big fan of that.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have a lot of young guys there that would be great for them just kind of pin the years back and get after it.
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's let's talk about who then is impacted by the proud of question in signing.
• 21:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I don't see a world in which this doesn't make it more difficult for either Ray Sean Benny or an ESP equals to make the 53.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way they've been looking really good in practice.
• 22:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just say that right now and how pads aren't on yet, you know, what can we make even?
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: They could be playing a lot harder there, but he else, the obviously both know they're, they're good chance they're playing for the same spot, but those guys have significant poaching risk.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Peoples probably a little bit less than Benny because Benny is a rookie, but I still think pretty significant poaching risk could be involved there.
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and we'll talk about one of the guy at a moment, but
• 22:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Benny and Peoples, and then along with Akoya, who's like, I'll talk about a moment.
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But those three, on top of the four, we said we're locks before, coming into prior to today or the last 24 hours.
• 22:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I saw those seven is ahead of Washington in terms of the making the roster potential.
• 22:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so those three young guys that you've got Akoya, Benny and Peoples, I took it that they were sort of in the,
• 23:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: knockout dragged down fight for that last fifth spot.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe someone like I'm at a BK starting on the PUP opening and additional spot for one of them early in the season, but this absolutely complicates the question or the picture at the back end of that defensive line group.
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: It certainly does, and one of the other things, and you can see, if racetrack betting on any of us, and as people's both get beaten out for the last five, you got a real de-utification of the team.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just going in the wrong freaking direction.
• 23:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is an ancient defense, as it is, with five guys in your ten or later, who are significant contributors to it.
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: The offense is a similar set of problems.
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have a bunch of old guys who are making contributions to the team.
• 23:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: It would be really bad if if one of those two guys doesn't make the team this year given You know the age of the age of the squad.
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's very hard to turn that whole group over.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: They did it once already by the way You know where they had to basically either re-sign or turn over the roster and You know, Travis Jones was at least at the heart of that Travis Jones is will be a UFA after the 207 season.
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I believe
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a, it's, you know, it's, it's not an easy path to, to changing that up for product Washington, undoubtedly be going after this year.
• 24:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would expect to be going after this year.
• 24:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jenkins is signed for, I believe only for one year and, you know, Campbell signed for one year.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't expect him to play another year either.
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're, you're, you're talking about a massive overhaul that don't have to make after this year.
• 24:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, people's in many, you have those guys for several more years after this one.
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: If it's even close, you would think that you would want them to have that roster spot.
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: All things being equal for sure.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're right.
• 24:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: If they could be behind, and you still want them to have the roster spot.
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I also think Benny fits the team's needs probably a little bit more directly.
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Washington is more of a, um, give you a little bit of each run defense and past offense.
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Benny gives you more run defense.
• 25:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's actually what the Ravens want in terms of early, early down, uh, protection for this team.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's one thing you would think of new coaching staff, you know, why is there any loyalty to guys that are whole over his life-washing him?
• 25:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But weaver was his defensive line coach for several years here.
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I do wonder if there's some relationship existing there that might be, you know, making him more attractive to retain or helping keep him around a little bit more tightly.
• 25:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me.
• 25:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: He played well.
• 25:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was 22 or 23.
• 25:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was right before you got signed that he had the six passes defense in the in the one year.
• 25:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's basically his entire career total.
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he is seven now in his career.
• 25:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's a, it could well be that we've were remembers him fondly from that era and, and once him.
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, we've also got to be smart about this himself.
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he understands the risks of rebuilding this defense fully after this 2020 season.
• 26:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's, it's dangerous.
• 26:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway,
• 26:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go through the various possibilities that could occur that they might have been thinking.
• 26:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, there aren't, we didn't talk about CGA Koye.
• 26:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: We probably should.
• 26:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's a bigger poaching risk and he was last year.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not sure 100% that he'd be poached by, I think it becomes much more likely as the season rolls along, that people look at someone who had 200 snaps last year and is the kind of size he has and said, you know, you just can't get a physical specimen like that.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's give this guy a shot.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Particularly if you're a bad team and you have injury problems.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and he is absolutely the get off the all get off the bus team guy that, you know, Benny and people's just aren't at Norris-Bronic Washington, and so, you know, you think about what he did in the pre-season last year where there were times where, you know, he just looked like a monster that some team you would think would want to take a chance on him.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's a guy I'm excited to hopefully keep around, but the numbers, the numbers crunch here is ultimately a hard one to avoid.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 27:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then the three ways that you could look at at their injury and retire and concerns that might have been a reason why they did it.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about that a little bit already so I don't think we need to go further.
• 27:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Possibly number two is that there's fewer total defensive line snaps, but the ravens could still carry six on the roster potentially.
• 27:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: They just would be sacrificing at corner.
• 27:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Another case where they'd be effectively carrying Washington,
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: forcing a six defense of lime that he carried for 2027 effectively and then losing a younger corner back because of that because that's the position that would be lost if he there's four safeties the hope is that they'd have room for seven corners by keeping only four safeties and if that's the case then
• 28:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think that's a good solid step towards committee to youth, and if they have to unravel that for, you know, a veteran deep hits of line, and I'm not very impressed by that.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would not be a fan of that at all, as I mentioned before, you know, I think Brother Washington is above the replacement level, but I don't think I see him as much more than a solid rotational kind of end of your defensive line rotation type player, which is fine if there's, you know, injury that a trits on your team and you know, he is a guy that weak one is there and you can have on the team.
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: If it's at the detriment of some of the corner back youth, the promising corner back youth they have on the team,
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Meet me either.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: One other thing, you know, it's kind of like a inert material in the bloodstream that kind of clogs up your your roster is that defensive alignment don't play special teams.
• 29:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're on the field goal kick and blocking it's potentially, but they don't play any of the important kickoff or or punt.
• 29:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: return stuff and you got to have bodies to do that and you're using up one roster spot which is a non special team spot.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying carry a special team's player but I'm saying you need to dip on your roster among those players that you normally carry.
• 29:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You want to have your special teams players and you know corners they can they can do it regularly they can jam they can gun they can you know they can do lots of things they can they certainly
• 29:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have a lot of things, a lot of ways they can contribute.
• 29:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Defensive Lyman just won't do that, and then that puts you in a harder position.
• 29:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of like a lot of other things where all these problems are interconnected, because you can say, well, that's what they got Chris Moore back for.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's no space on the offense for Chris Moore.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Chris Moore is, you know, this space for him to have three practice squad elevations, and this space for him is somebody got hurt, but the really isn't space for him, otherwise, to be on the roster.
• 30:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, and she's probably will occur, but it's not a, this isn't, you know, it's another non-useification move that is, you know, really bothersome to me about this, you know, very old team.
• 30:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 100%, and just one quick thing on that point, it's almost the inverse of a special team specialist inside linebacker.
• 30:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can really afford for your fourth inside linebacker to be just a guy who's really good at special teams.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's actually a pretty efficient way to do that.
• 30:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Having your sixth defensive lineman who does not play special teams who's not particularly special as a defensive lineman and plays a position that Where he's a little undifferentiated is is not really Okay, please do get a little you're a matter Yeah, and you go on the future either and so be a whole other thing if if
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: This were a rookie who was promising and was kind of a three-tech, not special in any particular way, but you kind of liked and he had three years after this one of Chief Control.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: You mean, kind of like a DSP-bols or a racer-like thing?
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, both, and DSP-bols even actually has more of a, you know, a spiky trait kind of thing going on even than the broader Washington does.
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: that these are spikes in certain areas and to the detriment of some others in terms of size.
• 31:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there's sort of a carrying trait there where you say, hey, this guy is, you know, it's kind of unique in terms of his past-rush potential and that sort of makes you look beyond the size.
• 31:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he does one thing really well as a role player, Braddock Washington sort of just feels like a, and no offense to him at all.
• 31:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's a quality like I said above replacement player.
• 31:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But,
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's nothing about his profile that really spikes, and you say, here's the one or two things you could do amazingly well in a limited role, and really give you some platoon advantages.
• 31:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm with you there.
• 31:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess what question to ask is, how much you want brother Washington playing in the preseason?
• 31:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So more than I did 24 hours ago, because as we mentioned, the banking of the savings of the D risking,
• 32:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think this gets to the next potential possibility that I imagine you were going to get to in just a moment here.
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: The potential for him to be traded to a team that has lost players or head injuries or has major question marks and what they're going into the season with from the defense of line position, that was a quite risky proposition when he was carrying that $4 million number.
• 32:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's very de-risk now, and so I think the team has the ability to go through to the end of the preseason, make sure that their own depth holds up,
• 32:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if he looks good, maybe someone's willing to send you a 7th round pick, or a conditional 7th that can turn into a 6th if he starts x games or whatever, maybe, you know, for broader Washington, if he looks like he gets back to when he was playing a little more promisingly.
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess they could also end up ironing one of these rookies.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're both relatively cheap, but it's not a zero cost to hold them on the roster the entire season.
• 33:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: It probably actually is very similar to the amount of guaranteed money to give gave product wash it.
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's sorry, that the,
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the 750 that they'd have to eat if they they traded them.
• 33:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: But interesting that that you know, they've got a couple of options there.
• 33:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the third possibility is is the trade possibility and and you just you just covered it very well.
• 33:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think there's anything more than we need to talk about that.
• 33:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: But this does not.
• 33:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: My main problem with the entire thing is the age situation of the ravens.
• 33:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think they've done enough different things to get younger across the entire team.
• 33:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's very bothersome to me.
• 33:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just can't remember the ravens ever being this old before.
• 33:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 33:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's fair.
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I don't know that this this move necessarily makes that any worse.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't necessarily improve it either, but I believe that's that was the situation they were in.
• 34:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whether or not this move is made to a large degree.
• 34:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if it kicks many off the team, and he's put it there, no, no, no, maybe I'm fast forwarding in the movie a little bit to the point where I, I, I, I, I, I, it's a little more than expect, but that that's not how this should play out.
• 34:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: That I sort of think the cascading Domino's here are monitor the injury situation.
• 34:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they think there's room for multiple because someone's going to have to start the RMPP.
• 34:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: If they can't, you know, if things hold up and they have enough guys or too many guys for five spots that they're able to trade Washington.
• 34:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think it's a bad point, by the way, you know, if you were at the 4 million, you could sort of work out whatever you want, like it doesn't really matter.
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: You could make any deal you want to say, we'll eat X amount of the dollars or you know, the other team could say, we'll trade for him, but hey, only if Washington agrees to take X-Pake up whatever happens,
• 35:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think, again, derisking going to the end of training campus final cuts is the bigger part of this, but then you have sort of already worked out, the fact that, I think he would be much more attractive at that 1.25 to another team than, you know, who's having death concerns?
• 35:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they don't normally do this either with a player who,
• 35:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: has some guaranteed money in the contract.
• 35:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: But in some way, the 750 is a sunk cost.
• 35:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the way to think of it.
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they could, they could make turn him into a handshake player.
• 35:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you look across this roster, the magazine, I have a really many, if any handshake players on the entire team.
• 35:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, oh, say good.
• 35:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to think who they have, it might be an offensive lineman that I'm not considering here, but it's got to be a veteran, if it's a case, he don't really have such a player against four.
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's maybe could be that sort of guy that depends on kind of what contract you agreed to.
• 36:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I still kind of feel somebody would take a chance on them, or there would be some potential poaching risk.
• 36:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you were to have to go through waivers, I think it's less with Washington, and I think that the Ravens might be also in a point where they're kind of ambivalent about if you get selected, okay?
• 36:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's life.
• 36:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't think it was going to happen, but it happened.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: They kind of, they talked about that being the case with Kai Uble Kelly a couple years ago with Ben Mason, also, you know, cutting him and then having him picked up by the Patriots.
• 36:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that they might just be ambivalent to it at that point if they had to cut him and try and get him back.
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: on the 53 to start the season after they move somebody else to IR.
• 36:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was going to say I was wondering if the guaranteed nature of his salary changed the math of the calculus on a handshake deal, but I don't think it does because even if he's guaranteed that money, I have to assume there's offset language that great if someone else signed him, we wouldn't necessarily be on the hook for the 1.25, it doesn't really change the potential of him coming back.
• 37:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'd be on the hook for the 750 that's already a sunk cost.
• 37:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think that that makes sense that he could still be a handshake deal.
• 37:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know they'll do it often with players who have a little bit of guaranteed money 750 is a larger amount of guaranteed money.
• 37:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would have thought that'd be on you know an unusual choice, but it could happen I think maybe Danny Pinter might be next Javan Gwyn would be another guy if he was gonna make the team I don't honestly think he's in a good position to make the team anymore, but he could be a handshake deal guys So if there are probably a couple names you could toss in there that would be
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: uh potentially ancient guys actually pinter has a bunch of guaranteed money too does you know like two milliliters yes and no if it's uh to go in but he feels more like a handshake deal to call you if we need you guys then a handshake deal to come back to the roster week one
• 37:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: right so they'll they'll they'll cut them and they'll try and get them on the practice squad and they'll they'll kind of lean on the notion that ledford and he had this great relationship and then he doesn't have an easy place to go but if you you know he's he's in his fourth year he's subject to waivers so somebody might decide hey you know we want to back including the Falcons yeah
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, Spencer always great talking football with you.
• 38:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: This was a, this is a really, I think an interesting discussion ended up being about not only what the Ravens options are, but what their risks on the table are for this position and on the roster in general in terms of the age, tell folks where they can talk football with you if they'd like to.
• 38:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can find me on twitter slash x at Spencer CP, always happy to talk Ravens there.
• 38:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, and a Spencer with an S in the middle to it is.
• 38:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess you have two S's.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, other folks out there, please use film study, mail bag at gmail.com for for any questions or comments.
• 38:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll direct them to the appropriate show.
• 38:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then that's also where show ideas go and have some great ones come in.
• 39:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Appreciate them.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Spencer, thanks again for coming on.
• 39:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll talk to you next time on film study.