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Journey Through Oz With Tori Calamito | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome back listeners to the BSB Podcast.
• 0:02
  On today's episode we're journeying back to the land of Oz, covering the extensive history of this powerhouse franchise.
• 0:08
  From the works of L.
• 0:09
  Frank Baum to the more recent two wicked films from Universal, anything and everything is on the table.
• 0:15
  course, no journey down the Yellow Brick Road would be complete without a little expert sorcery.
• 0:20
  Today we're joined by a very special guest, Tori Calamito, better known as the Oz Vlog.
• 0:25
  With over 316,000 loyal Ozians following her on TikTok alone, her knowledge of all things Oz is nothing short of spellbinding.
• 0:34
  We are thrillified to have her joining us today on the podcast.
• 0:38
  Welcome, Tori, and thank you so much for being here.
• 0:41
  What an introduction!
• 0:42
  Thank you so much for having me!
• 0:46
  But before we dive in, possible spoiler warning as we will be talking about so much of this franchise, including some of the newer entries.
• 0:52
  Tori, can you give the listeners one of your iconic spoiler warnings?
• 0:56
  for anyone who hasn't seen The Wizard of Oz, Wicked, Wicked for Good, hasn't read the books, you've been warned.
• 1:04
  Thank you so much.
• 1:05
  That was made my day, made my year 2025 going out with a bang here.
• 1:09
  ah So obviously we're going to start with your very early journey, Tori, if that's okay.
• 1:15
  The Wizard of Oz is an iconic film from MGM.
• 1:18
  There's also, of course, the books from L.
• 1:20
  Frank Baum.
• 1:21
  Where did you kind of get your journey into the world of Oz?
• 1:25
  I think I started where most Oz fans begin with the Ozian gateway drug that is the 1939 Judy Garland film.
• 1:33
  I saw it, the legend has it that I saw it when I was two years old.
• 1:36
  I stole the videotape from my grandmother's house, never returned it, it's still here and I just fell in love with it.
• 1:43
  And then through that gateway discovered as I wanted to do research, because my, my...
• 1:49
  Curiosity was so peaked as soon as I could, I got my hands on any materials I could to learn more, learned about the books, read all the books, and started collecting and have
• 2:00
  just never stopped.
• 2:02
  So your grandmother was really the one to kick off your Oz uh fascination.
• 2:08
  It's all her fault.
• 2:09
  Thanks, Grandma.
• 2:11
  What a great way to kind of celebrate that and to have such a such an early beginning.
• 2:15
  ah With that being said, then with the Judy Garland film, I know it's it's was a long time ago that you started with that.
• 2:23
  what is like like what about that film really stands out to you as to why this film is still so iconic today?
• 2:31
  You know, I always say you come for the beautiful bright colors and the fantastic music and the characters and you end up staying for the deeper themes of found family and
• 2:41
  self-actualization.
• 2:43
  I think as you watch it growing up, changes, the experience changes.
• 2:47
  through the different lenses of your different selves as you watch it from, you know, the time you're a child and then a teenager and then an adult.
• 2:54
  And certainly the things, the nuggets of truth I mine from it now are so different than the ones I saw as a kid.
• 3:01
  The hero's journey is a universal one that we can all relate to, wanting to identify with that person you're following along on the journey.
• 3:08
  Dorothy is the every person, the normal in this fantastical.
• 3:13
  And, you know, as I got older,
• 3:16
  I started seeing mirror experiences in my own life, my own found family, the journey that I was on, the twists in the yellow brick road and the flying monkeys always coming your
• 3:25
  way.
• 3:26
  And so as I grew up, the meaning changed and became much deeper.
• 3:30
  I love that you mentioned that about Dorothy being like the everyday person, because truly like this is a fantastical world where there's magic happening everywhere.
• 3:38
  And she's kind of thrust into this world and that's kind of a metaphor for life.
• 3:42
  Absolutely.
• 3:43
  And obviously as someone who has spent so much time looking and reading not only the books, watching a film, how would you compare those two original items when it comes to
• 3:57
  kind of the different worlds of Oz and obviously the surrounding, like kind of cinematic versus on paper?
• 4:07
  There are different things to be mined from both because they're so different from one another.
• 4:12
  You know, the 1939 film, I would call it a loose adaptation of L.
• 4:17
  Frank Baum's The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, very different book.
• 4:21
  Even Dorothy as a character, she's supposed to be around the age of eight or nine in the novel.
• 4:26
  And while they did try to age Judy down to around 12, she clearly reads a teenager.
• 4:30
  So her, you know, coming of age story reads very differently than Dorothy's journey in
• 4:37
  the book, which is one of a young child lost and trying to find her way home.
• 4:43
  So I think...
• 4:45
  Dorothy as a character is more relatable to the contemporary audience in the 1939 film because an eight-year-old now dropped in a foreign land without any understanding and no
• 4:55
  GPS would probably not have a smooth journey as Dorothy had then.
• 5:00
  But being a farm girl of the turn of the 20th century was perhaps more resourceful or more hearty.
• 5:08
  But I think those values, those core values very much read the same.
• 5:13
  We're all seeking
• 5:15
  self-actualization.
• 5:16
  You know, we're all seeking knowledge and love and the courage to pursue our dreams and we are all facing obstacles along that journey.
• 5:27
  And so I think the book reads as much more a manual for life and also an idealized society because of course Oz is a matriarchal utopia by the end of the 14 novel book series.
• 5:40
  And
• 5:41
  you know, 1939 film being boiled down to a three act structure reads differently.
• 5:47
  So I think there's a lot of really interesting things to be pulled from both of those adaptations and they feel very different as you're exploring them.
• 5:56
  I many people realize, like I knew that there was a lot of books, but I didn't realize that like it became like a utopia at the end, nor that that journey lasted for so long.
• 6:06
  What was that kind of like reading those books and going on that journey?
• 6:09
  So there are 14 novels by L.
• 6:11
  Frank Baum, the original author himself, and then other authors picked up the mantle after his passing that the publishers actually tapped to be the next royal historians after him.
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  So there are now over 40 canon Oz books, and some are better than others.
• 6:29
  I really like the core 14 the best.
• 6:33
  But it was, you know, it's delightful discovering this world and how it changes.
• 6:37
  ends up run by a trans woman and uh all of the power players in Oz, good, bad and ugly are women.
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  You know, the wizard is an ineffectual leader.
• 6:48
  who tries to bring capitalism to this fairy land and fails magnificently and flees in his balloon.
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  He is given a redemption arc, so he does come back.
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  He tries to learn real magic, but it's under the tutelage of Glinda and Osma.
• 7:00
  And so, yeah, it's, sitting in 2025 where we're still grappling with issues of equality.
• 7:07
  and gender fluidity and what that means for our society.
• 7:09
  It's lovely to open a series of books where, you know, you are celebrated for difference and not only celebrated but held aloft for your differences and the more different you are
• 7:20
  the better and the more useful.
• 7:21
  yeah, just a lot of really still contemporary lessons to be learned there would strongly recommend that parents read them to their kids.
• 7:31
  like impressive that this book series that was, you know, the first one came out in 1900 and then the 14th one came out in 1920 was, I mean, he was, that was very progressive
• 7:41
  thoughts at the time.
• 7:42
  And that's incredible to see.
• 7:44
  Well, actually, so we have regressed as a society.
• 7:48
  The ideas of gender and sexuality were not linked as much with morality as they are now.
• 7:57
  There was, you know, the idea of the dandy and things happening in your youth, you know, before you said, you know, obviously nobody was out and proud, but it was kind of
• 8:07
  understood that this was part of society.
• 8:09
  It wasn't really, you know,
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  That puritanical view that we've taken since was not as prevalent at the time.
• 8:16
  So when you open the Oz books, plenty of gender fluidity, plenty of suggestions of same-sex couples, nothing explicit.
• 8:26
  I would strongly recommend the book Queer Oz by Tyson Pugh if you're interested in learning more about this particular aspect of the Oz book series.
• 8:33
  It's all very implied, but it's there and it's really delightful.
• 8:37
  Do you think that that's, you know, as we go into some of the recent things of like Wicked, there is kind of this, like when it comes to like Alpha, but in Glinda, and
• 8:46
  there's a little bit of, you know, what people have interpreted as same sex attraction, stuff like that.
• 8:51
  Do you think that plays in because of what was there in the original text?
• 8:56
  I think the LGBTQIA plus community and Oz are so inextricably linked you cannot possibly remove one from the other.
• 9:03
  The Oz fandom was built on the backs of that community and we would not, I don't think we would still have it without them.
• 9:11
  And acknowledging their presence and their contribution to Oz is essential.
• 9:16
  um I definitely think that the Gliphie ship and all those things we talk about now, it's all there, you know, and it's
• 9:25
  It's just human relationships because sometimes those lines do get blurry with friends.
• 9:31
  And I think anyone who reads it that way is totally valid.
• 9:35
  And if you don't read it that way, it's totally valid.
• 9:37
  That's the beauty of art.
• 9:39
  Art is in the eye of its beholder and can be interpreted a million different ways.
• 9:44
  which absolutely we've seen, RJ, we've had conversations with people even in the films where some people don't interpret it that way and some people do.
• 9:51
  And as members of the LGBTQ plus community, we see different aspects of it.
• 9:56
  So it's just really kind of cool to see that there's a history of that with this long running franchise that probably a lot of people don't even realize is there.
• 10:05
  And you know, if you don't read it that way, there's nothing wrong with that either.
• 10:09
  It's totally fine.
• 10:10
  But I think it's really important as we continue in our contemporary moment to examine these classic pieces of literature and examining humanity and morality to acknowledge that
• 10:22
  these things have always existed and there's nothing amoral about it.
• 10:26
  Absolutely.
• 10:28
  I mean kind of transitioning from the OG story into modern day a little bit.
• 10:35
  uh We fast forward into the you know.
• 10:42
  The thing we've been talking about for the last two years or more.
• 10:45
  Wicked.
• 10:46
  What was your first exposure to the uh Wicked franchise?
• 10:52
  Was it the books?
• 10:54
  Was it the Tony nominated musical?
• 10:57
  What was that like for you?
• 11:00
  I read Gregory Maguire's novel, Wicked, the Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West at a shameful young age.
• 11:06
  Now here's a novel that is very geared toward adults.
• 11:10
  And I spotted the Wicked Witch of the West on the cover from across the Barnes and Noble at the age of 11 and said to my mom, that, I want that.
• 11:19
  And she said, book, absolutely.
• 11:20
  Because the answer to may I have book please was always yes, of course.
• 11:25
  My mom made the fatal error of not reading said book before handing it to me and I had a lot of questions.
• 11:33
  At which point she said, what are you reading?
• 11:35
  um So I was exposed to the novels before the musical was in production.
• 11:44
  And then of course in the early 2000s, the amazing team behind Wicked the Musical got together and started formulating this brilliant piece of theater.
• 11:53
  and it opened in 2003 and I was listening to that original Broadway cast recording as if my life depended on it.
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  And by the time I stepped into the Gershwin Theater in 2006, I knew it backwards, forwards, and upside down and fell madly in love with the musical.
• 12:09
  What I love about your story is that mine was kind of different where I didn't see them read the book until after the musical.
• 12:15
  My sister had the book.
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  She was eight years older than me.
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  And I saw the musical and I was like, I'm going to read the book.
• 12:20
  And she had never seen the musical before.
• 12:22
  And so all of a sudden I read the book and I was like, this is a different experience because it is very adult and there's a lot of adult themes and the Wicked the musical kind
• 12:32
  of has made it more family friendly.
• 12:34
  So it definitely is a very different story.
• 12:37
  I would say it's the Disneyfied version of the novel, which is a very complicated political allegory.
• 12:45
  think, and Gregory Maguire himself says he feels like the step-uncle of the musical.
• 12:50
  He feels attached, but not really.
• 12:51
  It's his, but it isn't.
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  um And I think your experience of the novel really depends on whether you read it first or saw the musical first.
• 12:59
  I find that people who saw the musical and then went back and read the book don't like the book, and people who read it first and then saw the musical really enjoyed it.
• 13:07
  And I'm in that camp.
• 13:09
  It was my favorite reread book.
• 13:11
  After finishing it, putting it down for a little while, I would reopen it again.
• 13:15
  And there were several nights under the covers with a flashlight because I couldn't put it down.
• 13:19
  Even rereading it, it was so exciting.
• 13:21
  So yeah, I love how different those experiences are depending on which door you took into the Wicked universe.
• 13:29
  RJ, what was yours?
• 13:30
  Because I know you read the book and you've seen the musical.
• 13:33
  Yeah, I was very similarly to Tori.
• 13:37
  I will actually my first exposure was literally just the song Defying Gravity.
• 13:42
  It was like on like a CD of like Broadway's top hits of the year or whatever.
• 13:47
  And so I listened to that religiously and then listen to the full album.
• 13:51
  um
• 13:53
  We weren't financially in a place where I could go see the show.
• 13:57
  So I found out there was a book and the library was my favorite place.
• 14:03
  And so went and grabbed the book, but was very curious preemptively as to why the book was in the adult section because at the time I also was a child.
• 14:15
  And so I did check it out and read it and I...
• 14:20
  Yeah, it was quite a read for a young one.
• 14:22
  um I probably did have a lot of questions that went unanswered because I didn't really tell anyone that I was reading this book.
• 14:31
  um But then eventually did see the musical and then revisited the book um because it is very, it's different, but obviously the familiarity of the characters.
• 14:44
  um
• 14:46
  It just gives you two different scopes when you look from the musical to the book and from the book to the musical.
• 14:52
  But it did, it made me appreciate both of them because yeah, we kind of get this fun loving Broadway musical that everyone can enjoy.
• 15:00
  And then you get this like in depth, almost behind the scenes.
• 15:05
  It feels like after the musical of like, here's why these intentions were there and here's what's happening in between that timeline and.
• 15:13
  all of those pieces.
• 15:14
  So I appreciated both.
• 15:16
  Honestly, I feel like I need to revisit the book again since the movie.
• 15:21
  ah So maybe that's on my to-do list.
• 15:25
  now you can get the alternate covers featuring Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande.
• 15:29
  Thank you, HarperCollins Publishing.
• 15:31
  And I've had parents reach out to me and say, you know, this is going to confuse children because they're going to see Ariana Grande on the cover and pick it up.
• 15:39
  Parents, it's your job.
• 15:40
  Read the book first before you hand it to children.
• 15:43
  Decide for yourself if your child is ready.
• 15:46
  And read the books with your kids, you know?
• 15:49
  It's a great bonding experience.
• 15:51
  which you know, you having a daughter and stuff, like you probably got to do that with the original, books to get to share those and sharing those.
• 15:58
  But you obviously as a parent, you would be like, we'll wait and see how mature you are and what you can handle before I'm handing you the Wicked book to take off and read.
• 16:07
  She hasn't expressed an interest yet in reading them.
• 16:09
  She's a big fan of the musical and the films.
• 16:12
  She has read, she's in the process of, I read her the Oz books and now she is rereading them for herself.
• 16:19
  So there will be a day where she's like, I wanna read the Wicked books.
• 16:22
  And when she's ready, my answer's gonna be book?
• 16:25
  Yes, because knowledge is power, read book.
• 16:29
  And this is a very powerful book.
• 16:31
  This is the one I remember.
• 16:32
  I was in high school, college when I read it and it was like the idea of the power dynamics and what's going on with the structure.
• 16:41
  Sometimes those things don't, know, I was colleges, I know they don't sink into kids' head when you see that.
• 16:45
  You even when they watch Wicked, either the movie or the show, sometimes those deeper level of storylines maybe don't sink in at a very young age.
• 16:54
  They're just seeing the magic and the sorcery and the...
• 16:56
  what makes us so beautiful and colorful and that's really cool and you get to have that experience with them.
• 17:00
  like then as you get older, you get to have that different relationship with it.
• 17:04
  And a sign of good art is that no matter where you are in history, it's still applicable.
• 17:09
  And there are folks who asked Winnie Holzman who wrote the book for the musical and the screenplay, she co-wrote the screenplays for the films, you know, did they update the
• 17:17
  story to reflect our current world?
• 17:18
  And they did not.
• 17:20
  The story remained the same and our world keeps shifting around it and it still applies.
• 17:24
  So there you have it, excellent art reflecting back to us what we see in the real world.
• 17:30
  so beautiful.
• 17:31
  That's so beautiful.
• 17:32
  ah Before we move on from the book and the stage play, to kind of talk about some of the things with the film, because you were quite active in the film presentation and stuff
• 17:42
  like that.
• 17:43
  But what was that like then for you as someone who grew up on ah The Wizard of Oz and these stories to see it from a different point of view?
• 17:51
  that like, was it easy to kind of shift your mindset when you were reading those books and seeing the show uh to kind of...
• 17:57
  because it is the same story, but it's told from that different perspective and you're seeing the Wicked Witch, is one of the most classic villains of all time in The Wizard of
• 18:05
  Oz, become something different and there's more layers to that.
• 18:09
  One of the lovely things about being an Oz fan my whole life is that I've been primed to accept that there are just different canons and different adaptations and sometimes
• 18:18
  they're linked and sometimes they're not and sometimes they are amalgamations of a bunch of different things.
• 18:24
  The 1939 film is obviously based on the novel but it borrowed from the 1902 stage play concepts from that and yet it's its own thing and so I had already a foundation of being
• 18:35
  used to that and okay with that so I look at Wicked as it's
• 18:39
  own thing.
• 18:40
  The novels are their own thing, the musical is its own thing, the films are now in their own universe, they all borrow from each other.
• 18:47
  They borrow from the Baum books from the 1939 musical because the witch is only in a couple of chapters of the original novel and she's not the main villain of the book
• 18:57
  series.
• 18:57
  She's in one book, she's in a couple of chapters, she's an obstacle that Dorothy overcomes, but she's not the main villain.
• 19:04
  So
• 19:05
  A lot of that's borrowed from 39, but not really, because copyright.
• 19:09
  you know, it's, it's...
• 19:11
  I had no problem suspending my disbelief enough to just accept this universe as its own thing.
• 19:16
  And if you are struggling with that, viewers, listeners, then, you know, you can think of it as the 1939 film is the propaganda version of the true story, if that's how you want to
• 19:27
  interpret it, because that's a fun way to look at it.
• 19:30
  Um...
• 19:30
  Yeah.
• 19:32
  And with that too, I've watching so many of your videos you had mentioned too, like there is some fine lines when it comes to using the film, like using the 1939 because, correct
• 19:41
  me if I'm wrong, but like she didn't have green skin in the original book that was a 1939 thing, but they were able to use it because of Gregory McGuire.
• 19:50
  So there's a lot of like playing and finding the pieces here, correct?
• 19:54
  Right, so a green witch is not copyrighted.
• 19:57
  know, people can have a green witch if they wish.
• 20:00
  But it really comes down to fine lines of aesthetic difference.
• 20:04
  So you can have a green witch, but you can't have her in the dress that Margaret Hamilton had.
• 20:09
  And it has to be distinctly different and cannot infringe upon the original work or its ability to generate revenue.
• 20:18
  copyright law is so subjective and complicated.
• 20:22
  You know, there's
• 20:23
  People go around saying, the color of the shade of green that Margaret Hamilton has is trademarked.
• 20:28
  And that's not entirely true.
• 20:29
  There's no specific which color in the trademark registry.
• 20:34
  But you have to be really careful because Warner Brothers would have a case if the aesthetic is similar enough.
• 20:40
  So studios do avoid using that shade of green, which is why in other adaptations, like for example, with Oz the Great and Powerful, they had to go back to the drawing board because
• 20:49
  it was too close.
• 20:50
  they had to redesign and that's why her outfit and all the décolletage is very different.
• 20:56
  um And with Wicked, they compiled their own green color for the stage play.
• 21:04
  Mac Cosmetics has this combination of colors that is their original witch green.
• 21:09
  And with Cynthia Erivo, they tested many shades of green on her for her skin tone, under different lighting.
• 21:18
  to get it just so that it worked on screen because if you get it wrong it can look bad.
• 21:23
  I love Once Upon a Time, but Zelina's particularly wet shade of pea green is very unsettling.
• 21:33
  So it's hard to get it right and get it in a way that it looks palatable because Elphaba's supposed to be likable to a point.
• 21:40
  She's also a rebel, so go girl.
• 21:41
  um
• 21:43
  But it's a complicated question and it's a fine line that they're all walking to not step on the Warner Brothers' toes.
• 21:51
  I remembered years ago hearing about the idea of putting purple in the costume for the stage play because that was a way to kind of separate it as well and make it.
• 21:59
  And so it was always interesting to watch of like, they know exactly how to toe the line, but there is like, it gives also artists a different way to interpret the character and
• 22:07
  stuff like that and bring it to really have Wicked have its own kind of identity in the grand scheme of things.
• 22:13
  Absolutely, and if you adopt that mindset that the 1939 film is a propaganda version of the true story, you know, putting this character in all black and making her deformed and
• 22:26
  ugly with a big chin, big nose, you know, unpleasant to look at.
• 22:30
  That narrative fits with the whole idea of, you know, those posters they had with Elva looking scary and evil.
• 22:37
  And so, and, you know, having her dress be a very simple black instead of having that nuance of purple.
• 22:43
  and other colors brought in.
• 22:45
  So, you know, definitely works out that way.
• 22:48
  before we kind of talk about Wicked and Wicked for Good, I do want to kind of jump and maybe talk about your journey into content creation because you've been doing this for
• 22:57
  quite a bit of time.
• 22:57
  You have so much knowledge, but like when did the idea or the journey kind of begin into this idea of sharing your knowledge on social media?
• 23:08
  I started posting on YouTube back in 2006 when YouTube was brand new and before Google owned it and it was just a video sharing platform and I was bored the summer after high
• 23:18
  school before leaving for college and it's really the only thing I know how to talk about so I turned on my camera and started talking about my collection, posted it, completely
• 23:27
  forgot about it, went off to college and you know I used a college email address so wasn't checking in really on my regular email address.
• 23:34
  came home and realized that a lot of people had engaged with it and really wanted to know more and also said, my gosh, I collect Oz things too.
• 23:42
  I had no idea.
• 23:43
  So it opened the door to wanting to communicate with other people and share more.
• 23:49
  this, after I got home from college, leading into grad school, getting married, having my daughter was posting more and more on YouTube, joined the Google AdSense Creator Fund that
• 24:01
  they had then.
• 24:02
  And then,
• 24:03
  You know, during the pandemic, again, found myself, you know, by then we had established Oz Talk on YouTube with my friend Ryan J.
• 24:10
  And we were, you know, was doing more actively in the Oz community in a public way with the International Wizard of Oz Club.
• 24:17
  I was running their Facebook page and, you know, doing live watch alongs of Oz projects with the club.
• 24:24
  And then TikTok came along.
• 24:26
  And again, just I'm so comfortable talking about these things.
• 24:31
  That's what I started talking about on TikTok.
• 24:33
  And that's when it really took off and people started engaging in a massive way with it.
• 24:40
  Up until then I had a few thousand followers on YouTube and it was a dedicated, you know, group of folks that was talking to each other and then it became this other thing.
• 24:48
  It really, you know, launched from there.
• 24:51
  That's so cool.
• 24:52
  like happy 20, almost 20 years then that you've been doing this.
• 24:57
  That's so exciting to have such a big monumental occasion, especially the kind of pair along with what's been going on over the past two years.
• 25:04
  And you've had been able to participate in quite a few different exciting Oz pportunities here.
• 25:09
  ah But first, what was it kind of like, I guess, to see the show on the big screen for like, it's been kind of in the news for a long time that this was in production.
• 25:20
  They were
• 25:21
  They were trying to get the right script, were trying to get the right production team, and it's finally a reality.
• 25:25
  What was that like?
• 25:26
  I kept saying, I'll believe it when I see it, because they started talking about a film adaptation almost immediately after the musical was a hit.
• 25:33
  And so we'd been holding our breath for two decades waiting for this thing to happen.
• 25:38
  And it really wasn't until John Chu was, you know, Green was the one that they signed on, because there were a few different directors who came in, you know, started having a
• 25:47
  screenplay written, then bowed out to do other projects and, you know.
• 25:50
  So it was in development limbo for a very long time.
• 25:54
  And when John Chu stepped on and started, you know, really exploring the idea of making this, decided it was going to be two films, and then the casting announcement started
• 26:04
  coming, I was like, okay, wait, buckle up, here we go.
• 26:06
  And it was exciting.
• 26:09
  And, you know, I was in the camp of folks who was hesitant about Ariana Grande being cast as Glinda and was proven completely wrong to have had any hesitation.
• 26:19
  She was perfect.
• 26:21
  And so it was just...
• 26:23
  It was a wonderful ride to finally see this thing launch and take off because Oz projects get announced and canceled all the time.
• 26:31
  And so to see it come to fruition and finally happen and to happen with a team that cared so deeply about it being good and not just good, great was such a thrill and it was
• 26:45
  amazing.
• 26:46
  think that part of the, you know, the hesitation, I will, I'll be honest, I had hesitation when they announced the two part, because I was like, that was such a big change of, know,
• 26:56
  in my head, I was like, this is a story that's two and a half hours on stage, and I am so glad to be wrong about how, like, that was, it was a great choice to be able to expand and
• 27:05
  kind of see different characters in different aspects and to have bigger stories.
• 27:10
  Like the expanded story of...
• 27:13
  the animals in the second act, I think is so important to the storyline that the stage show doesn't always have time to get all of that in, you know?
• 27:22
  know, John Chu talked about the fact that they were talking about what they would have to cut in order to make it one film.
• 27:27
  And one of the things they were talking about was Dr.
• 27:29
  Dillamond and the whole animal subplot, which is the soul of that story.
• 27:34
  And so he was like, no, absolutely not.
• 27:36
  We're going to do this.
• 27:37
  We're going to do it properly.
• 27:37
  It's got to be two.
• 27:39
  And he was 100 % correct.
• 27:41
  He's a brilliant filmmaker and a fantastic leader.
• 27:44
  And he was 100 % correct.
• 27:47
  And...
• 27:47
  know, act to the great criticism of it is that it drops so much so that it can put a pin in everything.
• 27:54
  It shifts the focus from Elphaba's activism to the love triangle, to now incorporating the story of the Wizard of Oz into their narrative, which takes up time and explanation.
• 28:07
  And so, you know, giving it that extra breathing space was crucial.
• 28:11
  And there are still folks who are criticizing it for not being a complete enough narrative.
• 28:16
  But, you know, there are often folks who aren't familiar with the musical and have not experienced the, huh, what happened there?
• 28:23
  Dr.
• 28:24
  Dillamond is on the lam, but where does he go?
• 28:26
  What happens?
• 28:27
  um So, you know, I'm so glad that they took the time to do that.
• 28:31
  And also, it was great for us fans having a whole nother year of press lead up was so fun.
• 28:37
  Yeah, I think after seeing the first film, of course that immediate like, I immediately need to see part two, right?
• 28:45
  I need to see for good.
• 28:47
  um Especially again, in a very similar camp to you, Tori, where I was very hesitant about when they announced, yeah, decades prior.
• 28:59
  we're gonna make this film.
• 29:00
  And I was like, well, I haven't even seen it on stage yet.
• 29:03
  How could you possibly be considering making a movie about it?
• 29:06
  uh And what will that do to, as a theater lover, what will that do to the show and its success?
• 29:15
  But so happy, couldn't be happier to be wrong.
• 29:18
  uh And same thing in regards to casting, their casting crew.
• 29:25
  I was like, how could you possibly find anyone who will live up to our expectations?
• 29:30
  Again, couldn't be more thrilled with all of the decisions that they made, which goes to speak, as you said, about John's choices and just that entire creative team being so
• 29:43
  intentional and obviously living with that content and with those characters for such an extended period of time.
• 29:51
  uh
• 29:53
  which so grateful, like makes me wish for some reason that there was like a whole nother film.
• 29:59
  Like, can we just get a whole film of literally the day to day creation because I would love to see that.
• 30:05
  And obviously we know after the recent drop with the deleted scenes and all of the extra content, I haven't watched anything yet, but I can't wait because those are the pieces
• 30:17
  that again, as someone who's lived with this show and story for a while, it's very
• 30:24
  intriguing to see other people's perspectives, especially those that again lived with the characters for years.
• 30:34
  What I think is interesting too is that everybody has their own, like their Elphaba their Galinda.
• 30:40
  And RJ, when you mentioned about how like, how can you, like how can they live up to expectations?
• 30:45
  uh Tori, we were very early on in this process of BSB here when we got to go to our local screener to see ah the first Wicked.
• 30:56
  And I remember leaving and I said, now I don't know how anyone's going to live up to, you know, Cynthia and to Ariana because
• 31:03
  It was just like, it felt so right for the film.
• 31:06
  And obviously every actress that takes up the roles is fantastic.
• 31:09
  And I don't want anyone to think that I'm not saying that, in my head I was like, that was almost like the definitive Elphaba and Glinda now in my head that I'm like, everything is
• 31:17
  going to be like living up to this movie now.
• 31:21
  And they will, but like, it's funny that when you kind of think about that, that like they were such perfect casting, even if there was doubt at the beginning.
• 31:29
  You know, and again, this comes down to chicken and egg and what you experience first and how that influences your enjoyment of that medium.
• 31:37
  Because of course, you know, adapting a musical to film is exceedingly difficult to do well.
• 31:44
  You know, on the flip side, you look at the producers as an example, which I love the stage show of the producers.
• 31:49
  The film tried so hard to capture the literal essence of the musical that it failed as a film because so much for the medium of film.
• 31:58
  doesn't work when it's directly translated from the stage.
• 32:01
  So they had a huge task.
• 32:03
  And I think there are people now who are going to go back and watch the stage show, which relatively speaking deals in minimalism because the framing device of Wicked the Musical
• 32:13
  is the clock of the time dragon.
• 32:15
  So you're in a literal clock.
• 32:17
  The bubble is the pendulum.
• 32:19
  You're looking at the gears.
• 32:20
  And the sets are more minimal.
• 32:22
  And your imagination is meant to fill in those gaps.
• 32:25
  So now if you've experienced this lush, lavish film version first, and you go back and watch this minimalist, relatively speaking, it's still a huge production, musical, you may
• 32:35
  go, what was that?
• 32:37
  But, you know, I want to hit this nail hard for those listening.
• 32:44
  Medium is the message.
• 32:45
  Go into it with that mindset.
• 32:46
  The medium of theater uses different things to tell their story.
• 32:49
  It's more driven by emotion than by visuals.
• 32:53
  And...
• 32:54
  You're going to have a different experience watching the musical.
• 32:58
  And, you know, they are separate entities.
• 33:01
  Cynthia Rivo and Ariana Grande will forever be remembered as Elphaba and Glinda, no matter what else they do in their careers.
• 33:07
  When you do an Oz project, that is a part of a greater legacy.
• 33:13
  So they are now going to be Elphaba and Glinda forever.
• 33:19
  Huge responsibility to take on, and they did it so beautifully well.
• 33:23
  and the Oz fandom is so proud to have them.
• 33:28
  you know, all of the people who do it on stage are such impressive human beings.
• 33:34
  And the musical has thrived in the shadow of the film.
• 33:38
  You know, the ticket sales have not been harmed.
• 33:40
  If anything, it's sold out still every day.
• 33:44
  So, um and as someone who has tickets to go again in a couple of weeks, ah I don't think the musical's in any danger.
• 33:52
  No, absolutely.
• 33:52
  It's almost really exciting to see how it's found, like not that it was ever suffering, but like people are going in droves now to it and tickets were already hard to find here
• 34:03
  in Detroit when it tours and I'm sure it's gonna be impossible to get your hands on them because it's also made theater accessible to people who maybe haven't done that, but also
• 34:13
  it reignites that love for the story that people are gonna wanna go back and see again.
• 34:18
  Absolutely, and you know a lot of the members of the production have noted that there are more kids in the audience now than there were before.
• 34:25
  So that's a lovely thing.
• 34:27
  What a great first theater experience that must be.
• 34:31
  So for you, what has been the biggest surprise about maybe the development of Wicked and Wicked for Good?
• 34:36
  As an Oz lover, as somebody who has been kind of invited to things and done things, but also you just observing this process for over 20 years of them making the film, what has
• 34:45
  been kind of surprising for you?
• 34:47
  I was very pleasantly surprised that they went the route of practical effects and building Oz.
• 34:55
  You know, in recent Oz projects, Oz the Great and Powerful being the biggest live action outing that Oz has had in a long time.
• 35:02
  It was all green screen.
• 35:04
  They really...
• 35:05
  And you felt it.
• 35:06
  You can feel the difference in terms of the performance and the interaction with the space when nothing is there.
• 35:13
  And that movie already sucks and we don't have to talk about it.
• 35:15
  But, um...
• 35:18
  em But, you know, so I was very pleasantly surprised that Universal invested the money to build it.
• 35:27
  It made a huge difference to the final product.
• 35:29
  It made a huge difference for the performers.
• 35:32
  But also, Universal has so benefited from the musical.
• 35:36
  It's been one of their biggest earnings in the last two decades, has been Wicked the Musical.
• 35:41
  So I am glad that they took note of that and did everything they could to serve it the way it deserved.
• 35:48
  And I was pleasantly surprised to see the diversity in the casting.
• 35:59
  Oz has not been great about that in its entire, you know, 125 year history.
• 36:05
  There's not a person of color to be found in the 1939 film and people have thoughts about what Oz should look like.
• 36:13
  But Oz is a very diverse place, so seeing that reflected in the casting by John was really delightful.
• 36:20
  Absolutely.
• 36:22
  guess circling back around somewhat full circle um to a more recent experience that is available for Oz enjoyers.
• 36:35
  um The Wizard of Oz at the Sphere.
• 36:40
  I recently attended this and was curious on your thoughts.
• 36:44
  um
• 36:46
  on how that experience was and how it was to kind of again come full circle.
• 36:52
  We start with the Wizard of Oz.
• 36:53
  We're in the midst of this wicked uh tornado and now back to kind of springing a spotlight on Wizard of Oz.
• 37:02
  What did you think of that experience overall?
• 37:07
  had fun, you know, again going into it with this idea that this is an adaptation, this is not, you're not going to have the same experience watching the Wizard of Oz at the sphere
• 37:17
  that you'll have in your living room watching the Wizard of Oz or even at a movie theater watching the Wizard of Oz.
• 37:23
  It felt more akin to a theme park attraction for me than a sit-down film experience.
• 37:30
  And I was there the night of the premiere, so obviously we were filming.
• 37:34
  It was a different experience than perhaps you'll have as an audience member going on any given day.
• 37:40
  It was really fun.
• 37:42
  The AI didn't work in a lot of places.
• 37:46
  There were things about it that I just looked at it went, what the heck am I watching?
• 37:50
  But you can see.
• 37:53
  And they bungled the PR leading up because every company right now is trying to hammer that they have the AI technology, but they don't.
• 38:01
  And so, you know, they built up this AI, but really what they had to do was hire VFX artists because the AI didn't do what they needed it to do.
• 38:09
  So you can tell where artists touched it and where they didn't.
• 38:14
  And in those places, it is so successfully rendered.
• 38:17
  and so beautiful that my breath was taken away in a lot of places, literally and figuratively, because that tornado sequence, literally, I was like, the wind.
• 38:25
  ah But I had a great time.
• 38:28
  And if you're an Oz fan, this is something we'll be talking about for decades to come.
• 38:33
  We're still talking about The Wizard of Oz on Ice from 30 years ago.
• 38:36
  We're going to be talking about this for the next 30 years.
• 38:38
  So if you're a big Oz fan, go experience it.
• 38:40
  It's a good time.
• 38:42
  And it will never replace the 1939 film because it is so venue specific.
• 38:46
  There's really no other way I think they could adapt this other than maybe a VR experience.
• 38:51
  You can't release this version in other theaters, it won't work.
• 38:55
  So there's no fear of it getting the George Lucas treatment and replacing what we know.
• 39:00
  Absolutely.
• 39:01
  I 100 % similar experience.
• 39:05
  The experience itself was very impressive to me.
• 39:08
  Like the act of going through the building itself and everything.
• 39:12
  won't give away too many things, but the experience as a patron was very fun.
• 39:20
  The movie itself...
• 39:23
  Obviously will always I will always go to the original film it just that wasn't actually my favorite even though I know that's kind of what we're there for It ended up not being
• 39:33
  what I was there for due to that AI piece, but everything else Yes, very much glad to have experienced it glad to we'll say if you're a big Oz fan, obviously It's it's worth it uh
• 39:48
  But yeah, and just another fun thing, I think that this franchise is having this moment, right, in so many facets.
• 39:58
  Obviously capitalizing on the spotlight that Wicked has right now, and then...
• 40:05
  returning to its origins, but I'm interested to see, kind of like what else can they possibly do after sending us through a literal tornado, because that was really
• 40:19
  impressive.
• 40:21
  It's cool to be able to take it into, and I have not got to see it yet, um but it's cool to be able to take it into an experience.
• 40:27
  And all the videos you see of people on social media, they're talking about the things like the apples dropping and the wind and the poppy, and the flying monkeys.
• 40:35
  There's a lot of cool, again, bringing it into another generation for another group of people.
• 40:42
  And people are going to be flocking to it in droves to see this experience.
• 40:46
  and there were kids there.
• 40:48
  who were watching it with slack jaws, who probably hadn't seen the film yet, and this was their first experience.
• 40:54
  And so, you know, again, there is no right or wrong way to experience Oz.
• 41:00
  You know, there are so many ways to experience it, so many mediums in which to watch it.
• 41:05
  And we are in the midst of an Oz-issance.
• 41:07
  So for me, anything that's happening is good, because when you take your kids to see The Wizard of Oz at Sphere, what's the next thing?
• 41:14
  Oh, there's a book.
• 41:15
  Can I read it?
• 41:15
  Sure.
• 41:16
  Let's go to the store and get it or go to the library.
• 41:19
  Let's watch the movie again on our screen at home now that you've seen it.
• 41:22
  Let's read, you let's go see Wicked.
• 41:25
  And so, you know, again, this re this this Oz-issance moment is a door opening for a generation of people to experience it again in new ways and
• 41:36
  I don't want to, you know, there's a lot of judgment surrounding that particular project.
• 41:41
  And I understand people's reservations about AI.
• 41:43
  a legitimate concern.
• 41:45
  But the project itself existing is a net positive for the future of the Oz fandom.
• 41:51
  I love that you call it the Oz-issance because I think that when you talk about like Oz the Great and Powerful that came out a decade ago or so, it felt like there was almost
• 41:58
  like a period for a little bit of like what's going to happen with, you know, this this franchise that's been around forever.
• 42:03
  And there's like and there's so much excitement about it.
• 42:06
  And there's talks about the future and stuff like that, that it really is like it feels like we OK, and we're back and we can breathe like Wicked was always there.
• 42:13
  We could kind of carry this through.
• 42:15
  But on the larger scale, it feels like the world's talking about this again.
• 42:20
  And that is how Oz has continued to survive.
• 42:23
  And this is why it doesn't worry me when we have dry spells of Oz content.
• 42:28
  Because there's always something coming.
• 42:31
  And Oz is such a universally beloved story that it will continue to be reinterpreted.
• 42:37
  Which is why the word remake for me is not a dirty word.
• 42:40
  Even if it's a terrible remake.
• 42:42
  Oz the Great and Powerful sucked.
• 42:43
  But...
• 42:45
  Because it was made, other things were made around it.
• 42:48
  Legends of Oz Dorothy's Return, a very underappreciated cartoon version of one of Roger Baum's books, was made at the same time.
• 42:57
  And so, you know, Oz is always simmering, even when it's not out in the open for people to enjoy.
• 43:03
  And we, I grew up in the, my heyday was the early 90s.
• 43:07
  I was born in 88.
• 43:08
  So I was there for the Oz-issance that we experienced following the 50th anniversary of the 39 film.
• 43:14
  There was a boom of stage plays and ice shows and merch that came and lasted, I would say, petered out in the mid to late 90s.
• 43:22
  We had that dry spell there for a bit and now we're back.
• 43:24
  So, you know, again, Oz,
• 43:27
  comes in waves and it's feast and famine but it's always there and it'll be back.
• 43:33
  If it goes away for a little while it'll be back.
• 43:35
  I think it's always interesting too when you talk about that because we're both 90s babies.
• 43:40
  We were 92 and 93.
• 43:42
  So by the time we were kind of old enough to remember, like you said, I was kind of starting to peter off at that point.
• 43:47
  I didn't even know there was a Wizard of ice show until I saw your video about it, I'm pretty sure.
• 43:51
  And I was like, I had no idea that there was an ice show about Wizard of Oz, but that makes a ton of sense because it is, again, another accessibility thing for people to see
• 43:58
  the story of the Wizard of Oz.
• 44:00
  And ice shows had a huge boom in the 90s after Tonya Harding and her husband took a metal pipe to their competition.
• 44:08
  And actually um Oksana Bayul, who won the Olympics that year, was in the filmed version of The Wizard of Oz on ice.
• 44:16
  and Madison Square Garden had a production with Eartha Kitt and Mickey Rooney.
• 44:23
  it was a great moment for Oz fans.
• 44:25
  And there was a lot of merch, still is.
• 44:27
  That will definitely never go away.
• 44:29
  And so, and it's very interesting now with Netflix having put out an option to buy Warner Brothers.
• 44:36
  So what's going to happen with Oz there?
• 44:38
  What's the future?
• 44:39
  We don't know.
• 44:40
  It's so exciting.
• 44:42
  Stay tuned.
• 44:44
  So you've been having your journey with Wicked currently over the past two years.
• 44:48
  uh Has there been a standout moment from your time?
• 44:52
  I know you've interviewed quite a few stars, you got to go and have quite a few different tours and experiences.
• 44:57
  Is there anything that really stands out to you?
• 44:59
  Boiling it down to one.
• 45:02
  So I was in the camp of, you know, people assumed I would get invitations to things.
• 45:11
  I never had that assumption.
• 45:14
  I was just happy to be included in whatever.
• 45:17
  I think one of the most thrilling moments was that first email I got in the summer of 2024.
• 45:24
  I got an email from Universal.
• 45:27
  saying, hey, we'd like to meet with you about the possibility of interviewing John Chu.
• 45:32
  And I was like, my husband and I were jumping up and down screaming like, my god, I can't believe it, that's amazing.
• 45:41
  And what that developed into was a conversation about, they were also talking to my friend Tiffany Sutton who followed the yellow brick girl.
• 45:48
  And I was like, my gosh, yeah, we're real life friends, we're very close.
• 45:52
  And they're like, would you wanna do this together?
• 45:54
  And we were like, yes, my gosh, yes.
• 45:57
  So over the course of the last couple of years, I've gotten to, because she lives in LA, so we don't see each other in person as much as I would like.
• 46:05
  So we had all this opportunity to spend all this time together, which was such a joy.
• 46:10
  And I think one of the biggest standout moments that I just talked about on my TikTok, we were not scheduled to interview Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo the first time we went out
• 46:22
  there to do interviews.
• 46:23
  We were scheduled to do basically everyone else.
• 46:26
  But they were so slammed that they had no time for us, which is totally understandable.
• 46:30
  We were sitting with people from NBC and mainstream media.
• 46:34
  We were lucky to be in the room.
• 46:36
  And we were sitting waiting to interview Ethan Slater and Marissa Bodie, which was amazing.
• 46:41
  And out of the corner of my eye, I spotted Ariana Grande on the other side of the soundstage, which they had sectioned off to do multiple interviews at the same time.
• 46:50
  And I turned to Tiffany and said, look, it's Ariana Grande.
• 46:53
  And by the time I turned back, she was running at a gallop towards us with Cynthia Rivo in tow.
• 46:59
  And they gave us big hugs and said hi, as if we've known each other for years.
• 47:03
  They're so unbelievably kind and gracious.
• 47:07
  And they didn't have to come say hello to us, you know?
• 47:11
  So.
• 47:13
  We were talking and they were like, so we'll talk to you guys later, right?
• 47:16
  And we're like, unfortunately, you guys didn't ever meet your schedule, but was such a joy to meet you.
• 47:20
  And they were like, absolutely not.
• 47:22
  And they turned around to their teams and said, we'll take care of it.
• 47:24
  We'll see you later.
• 47:25
  And we were like, what the heck does that mean?
• 47:27
  And when we came out of that interview with Marissa Bodie and Ethan Slater, they had a golf cart ready to take us to an interview with Cynthia Urivo and Ariana Grande.
• 47:35
  And I think it's really important to emphasize they had not had a break all day.
• 47:39
  They had not had a chance to eat or use the bathroom or have a minute to breathe and they found five minutes in their schedule for Tiffany and I to talk to them.
• 47:47
  And again, they did not have to include us in that way.
• 47:50
  We are small potatoes compared to the people who were there, know, people with millions of followers, big media outlets.
• 47:57
  And, but they knew how important it was to engage with the fandom the way they did.
• 48:03
  Wicked thrived because fans were so hungry for it.
• 48:08
  So otherwise, it might have flown under the radar as another musical adaptation, but because the Oz fandom is so strong, it thrived.
• 48:16
  And they knew that, and they engaged with that on purpose, online, in these interviews, not just with us, but with lots of content creators.
• 48:25
  And that was a great idea.
• 48:27
  Good job, Universal.
• 48:29
  And um it was thrilling and amazing, thrillifying even.
• 48:34
  And they, again, everyone on that crew and in that cast was so kind and so loving.
• 48:42
  John Chu ran into us on the backlot the night before the premiere of Wicked Part 1.
• 48:48
  And he had been on the phone with, I think, his wife.
• 48:51
  He was on a FaceTime call.
• 48:53
  And we were walking on the backlot.
• 48:54
  And I saw him and was like, don't make eye contact because he was on the phone.
• 48:57
  And I didn't want to make him think I was trying to engage him.
• 49:01
  But he was like,
• 49:02
  Oh, my friends are here, I gotta go.
• 49:03
  And he hung up the phone and crossed the street and came and talked to us.
• 49:07
  And he was like, you know, I don't even know if I'm gonna make it to the premiere.
• 49:10
  I think my baby's gonna be born.
• 49:11
  I was like, what are the odds of that?
• 49:13
  Guess what?
• 49:15
  The next day he was not there because his wife went into labor.
• 49:19
  But just again, so down to earth, so kind, so lovely.
• 49:23
  And there was not, you didn't get a sense of ego or self-importance.
• 49:28
  And I was genuinely starstruck.
• 49:31
  but they put you really at ease because they were so nice.
• 49:35
  you know, having done this for quite a bit of time where we interview people like you or like stars, you know, and stuff like that, it can get like, can get nervous after, you
• 49:43
  know, and so it's nice to have somebody that's just like, we're here and we're cool.
• 49:47
  Like, you know, because those are, you know, Elphaba and Glinda, know, John Chu, these are, these are real people who are also megastars.
• 49:55
  Like it's kind of hard sometimes to be like, I'm so nervous getting up there and doing that.
• 49:59
  I think it's really just important to remember that these are just normal people.
• 50:03
  These are just human beings who have had extraordinary experiences in their lives and are so talented that their talent has lifted them to this place of notoriety, but they're all
• 50:12
  just people.
• 50:15
  you know, meeting Ariana Grande felt like hanging out with one of my cousins, because we're both Sicilian and so our cultures are the same and like her mom and brother are so
• 50:23
  awesome and like they're very friendly and, you know, again, we're all just...
• 50:28
  human beings and they are extraordinarily talented human beings and that's why we admire them but other than the fact that they are in this public space they are no different from
• 50:41
  you or I and it's a shame when there are stars I'm sure who let that fame get to them but if that has happened for them I did not experience it.
• 50:52
  And I got to spend a lot of time on that backlot.
• 50:54
  So I think if that had been a thing, we would have noticed.
• 50:57
  But they were hardworking and lovely and kind.
• 51:02
  And that, you know, they were so emotional in that first part one PR campaign because it's an emotional experience.
• 51:09
  But also they were under the lens for when I I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that that interview day that the press day where we interviewed them, that was a 12 hour day.
• 51:19
  So they were going from one outlet to the next, boom, boom, boom.
• 51:23
  And getting asked basically the same questions over and over again, you know, that was one of the lovely things I think about our interviews, please go watch them, that we were
• 51:31
  asking them very Oz specific questions that, you know, NBC and ABC weren't asking.
• 51:36
  So it was at least a little bit of something different.
• 51:40
  I will say that having watched those, those are some of my favorite interviews because you were specific questions that they knew the answers to, but were more related to Oz than
• 51:50
  just like the, and what was it like getting sitting in the makeup tier, you know, to get the green skin?
• 51:54
  You know, those are very basic questions and you were like asking really thoughtful and thought provoking questions.
• 52:00
  And they had read the books.
• 52:02
  So they were knowledgeable about things that most people aren't.
• 52:08
  They were throwing out deep cut book knowledge that most people would have no idea about.
• 52:13
  And it was so exciting as an Oz fan because you knew they had taken the time and invested their energy in making sure they did this right.
• 52:20
  when I think that.
• 52:21
  Franco didn't read the books.
• 52:24
  You
• 52:24
  That certainly, like it just shows, right, that that translation of they put in the time and the effort to really make sure that the experience for those watching was as true as
• 52:41
  it could be, right, in that specific medium because
• 52:47
  they knew that there was such a large fandom and such a hunger for representation and accuracy and that backstory that we haven't gotten previously.
• 53:01
  again, kudos to you in some of those interviews oh because I do think comparatively, like we get so much more information on the way that they were thinking as.
• 53:12
  as when it comes to character development and the thought process in those character lines compared to, yeah, mean, big media outlets, they are gonna ask the same questions that are
• 53:25
  more geared towards the actor as an individual rather as the actor as the character.
• 53:31
  uh So yeah, it was really exciting to see that content because we don't really get it.
• 53:38
  And kudos as well to Tiffany Sutton, Follow The Yellow Brick Girl, who did those interviews with me because it was a very collaborative ah effort to, you know, come up
• 53:47
  with those questions and those ideas and those games.
• 53:49
  And ah she's an amazing content creator and she is so confident that I was, I always joke with her, like, I'm sucking the confidence out of you so that I can walk into the room
• 54:02
  with the same level as you because she is so good at that and she's so...
• 54:08
  secure in herself that she is a woman I really admire.
• 54:12
  doing that with her was such an honor and a joy.
• 54:17
  And the two of you were just such a great team in that as well.
• 54:19
  And then I think it's led people to see different kinds of coverage as well, because you both have your own channels and stuff like that.
• 54:25
  Um, and I didn't know about Tiffany until your videos together started coming up with interviews and I started following her and stuff like that.
• 54:32
  And it's just, it's the same quality as well between the two of you with just different perspectives.
• 54:37
  And so like, that's really cool.
• 54:38
  And like, again, you guys did a great job in those interviews.
• 54:40
  I would have been completely awestruck and not have been able to form words at the fact that I'm sitting in front of them.
• 54:46
  And you guys made it look so professional with those great questions.
• 54:49
  so, yeah, top notch.
• 54:52
  you know when you walk in a room and you see Jonathan Bailey and Jon Chu sitting next to each other and the first thing that happens is Jonathan Bailey gets up and gives you a hug
• 55:01
  and says I love your stuff.
• 55:03
  Thank you so much for talking about our movie.
• 55:05
  You go, oh, okay, this is gonna be fine because they just talked to you like anybody else and so you know you take them off of that pedestal and now we're sitting across from each
• 55:17
  other and it feels much more comfortable.
• 55:19
  He also wore
• 55:20
  Wizard of Oz on ice t-shirt to that first interview I did with him and said I've been looking for more of these t-shirts do you know where I can get them?
• 55:28
  I was like good luck if you find some let me know but you know again just completely at ease completely kind lovely down-to-earth people who genuinely cared and I think this was
• 55:41
  part of John Chu's genius because he had auditions for these roles he didn't just pick because he could have picked from all of the a-listers he could have picked anyone
• 55:50
  and handed it to them, but he had everyone audition and try for it.
• 55:54
  And so they were people who wanted it and were hungry for it.
• 55:58
  And that made such a huge difference, I think, in the overall dynamic.
• 56:02
  Absolutely, absolutely.
• 56:05
  Well, as we.
• 56:06
  I may say, John Chu is an exceedingly kind person.
• 56:10
  And so he led from a place of kindness and inclusivity.
• 56:14
  And everyone who worked on the film said he made everyone feel like number one on the call sheet.
• 56:19
  And if you had an issue, you could go to him and talk to him and it was not a big deal.
• 56:23
  And so again, that leadership from the top permeated through the whole thing and it shows.
• 56:30
  Which is really cool.
• 56:31
  That's like, because like obviously it needs to start from the leader to have that area where you can feel like you can talk about things.
• 56:37
  And as I remember from some of the interviews that they've given, they were also very collaborative.
• 56:42
  All of the actors were very collaborative in the approach of bringing these characters to life.
• 56:45
  So to be able to have that conversation instead of being like the, the director, it's my word or not, you know?
• 56:50
  So John, John and Chu is, he's, he's the director of like, like a generational director.
• 56:56
  He's one of my favorites.
• 56:57
  So that props them.
• 56:59
  right.
• 57:00
  Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande went to him and were like, we'd like to sing this live.
• 57:04
  The amount of technical layers of complication that that adds to John Chu's job as a director, that's a deep list of complications now.
• 57:13
  Now you need sound engineers and you're going to have to do more in post in terms of making sure that mix sounds right and sounds natural.
• 57:21
  And he was like, OK, challenge accepted.
• 57:23
  Let's do it.
• 57:24
  And he could have said, absolutely not.
• 57:25
  We're pre-recording it.
• 57:26
  That's how musicals are made.
• 57:28
  But the magic that is created from those performances being live and for having the space to improvise cannot be replicated.
• 57:36
  So kudos to everyone involved.
• 57:38
  These films are masterpieces.
• 57:41
  and also singing live while you're flying in the middle of the air, amazes me to this day.
• 57:48
  who has trouble enough when my feet are firmly planted on the ground, cannot tell you how much I admire that they are capable of that.
• 57:58
  RJ is an actor as well and he said he, I can't even sing those songs laying down, let alone flying.
• 58:04
  Well, I mean, just look at the song Defying Gravity, the amount of breath control you need to achieve those belts at the end and to be, to hold your voice steady.
• 58:13
  Cynthia Erivo is already just one of the most talented human beings who has graced the earth thus far.
• 58:20
  But then to be in a harness which restricts your ability to access your abdominal muscles in the way that you need to support breath on those songs.
• 58:29
  So she had to sing completely differently and she still did it and said,
• 58:33
  Actually, it wasn't the hardest thing I've ever sung.
• 58:36
  And I was in the audience during the recording of One Wonderful Night, which was the television special concert that they did for Wicked for Good.
• 58:44
  And she was, again, singing in a harness, flying over the audience and made it look so easy.
• 58:51
  That woman is just so impressive and talented and beautiful and soulful.
• 58:58
  I don't know if you've read her book yet, Simply More, but I can't recommend it enough.
• 59:02
  What a great book.
• 59:03
  um She's a well of knowledge and wisdom.
• 59:11
  um
• 59:15
  That book is on my list.
• 59:16
  I have not read it yet, but I will read it.
• 59:19
  Yeah, it's, well, in just all in all, the culture of the film, I think, matches.
• 59:31
  what we want the culture of Oz to be, right?
• 59:34
  That warm welcoming down to earth, no matter where you come from, who you are, what pathway you're walking, like we welcome you.
• 59:43
  um And so that's so exciting to hear that not only obviously onset, offset.
• 59:50
  across the board which I think we see some of that in some of the PR right but it's always that those firsthand experiences uh that just ring so true to the the security of kind of
• 1:00:06
  the the legend that will be continued to be Oz and now this new part of Oz um and you know as we head into 2026
• 1:00:18
  You know, is, what does that look like for you as, you know, Wicked for Good is just now available for, you know, download and we're kind of moving into this, I don't want to say
• 1:00:33
  post-Wicked moment, but you know, obviously we know that this fandom will maybe not be as prevalent uh as we move forward.
• 1:00:43
  What are you kind of hoping for, for the journey and for Oz?
• 1:00:46
  um
• 1:00:47
  both as an Oz fan and as a creator who builds uh part of their platform around this.
• 1:00:55
  What are you hoping to maybe have in your future?
• 1:01:00
  You know, I don't think we've seen the last of Wicked by any stretch.
• 1:01:03
  Whether or not that means, I mean, Stephen Schwartz and Winnie Holzman have confirmed they're working on something.
• 1:01:08
  We don't know what that something is, but it's something Wicked this way comes.
• 1:01:12
  Whether or not that will ever see the light of day, we don't know yet.
• 1:01:15
  We have a new novel by Gregory Maguire all about Glinda's backstory coming out.
• 1:01:19
  He published Elfie last year, ah and now in 2026, we're getting the Glinda backstory, which I'm very much looking forward to.
• 1:01:28
  And I...
• 1:01:30
  I know even now there's a slew of new merch being released.
• 1:01:33
  The Care Bears have released new merch and Tubbs Ducks have a new line of Wicked merch and the parks just released snow globes that are brand new.
• 1:01:42
  so, know, Wicked the films may die down, but like its predecessor, The Wizard of Oz, the merchandising side of it, which I know some people go, enough, it's oversaturated.
• 1:01:52
  But as a collector, I'm like, yes, keep it coming.
• 1:01:55
  It's a part of the legacy.
• 1:01:56
  Even going back to L.
• 1:01:57
  Frank Baum, he merchandised Oz.
• 1:01:59
  So I'd love to see the continued creation of new merch and collectibles.
• 1:02:05
  I think we're going to see more to do with the theme parks for Wicked.
• 1:02:09
  If they don't capitalize on that, that would be a mistake, and I don't think they're going to make that mistake.
• 1:02:15
  Since this has been one of the largest earners Universal has seen in decades, I don't think they're going to sleep on that in terms of, you know, bringing that into the theme
• 1:02:23
  park fold.
• 1:02:24
  And they've just launched Epic Universe, which has plenty of room for expansion, so...
• 1:02:28
  I don't have any insider knowledge on this side note, but I see it coming.
• 1:02:33
  I ah anticipate it will come and I'm very much looking forward to experiencing that.
• 1:02:40
  Oz continues and more people are picking up the books.
• 1:02:45
  And there's another John Chu in the crowd somewhere waiting to create the next thing.
• 1:02:49
  There's another Steven Schwartz.
• 1:02:51
  There's another Winnie Holzman.
• 1:02:52
  There's so much creativity bubbling and Oz is so inspiring to so many people.
• 1:02:58
  We have definitely not seen the last of it and I'm so looking forward to that.
• 1:03:02
  And in terms of my content creation, I've been making films, I've been making videos about The Wizard of Oz for 20 years and I've never run out of material, so I'm not worried at
• 1:03:11
  all about what comes next.
• 1:03:14
  So it sounds like 2026 and beyond is gonna be a really good time for you and for your channel, the Oz Vlog and stuff like that.
• 1:03:20
  And we are just so excited to see what comes from that.
• 1:03:24
  Thank you.
• 1:03:26
  Thank you so much, Tori, for being here.
• 1:03:27
  Seriously, we are so, so, so thankful and so excited to have you on here.
• 1:03:33
  And we appreciate you spending time with us on New Year's Eve of all days.
• 1:03:37
  So thank you so much.
• 1:03:38
  I want to wish you both and your listeners and your viewers the happiest of Happy New Years.
• 1:03:45
  You know, I think we're all experiencing some highs and lows.
• 1:03:49
  2025 was a complicated year for us in general as a society, but I want to walk forward into the future with hope and joy.
• 1:03:59
  And I thank you so much for inviting me on this day of all days to talk about Oz and celebrate what comes next.
• 1:04:07
  appreciate it.
• 1:04:08
  And before we let you go to where can people find you obviously, TikTok, go ahead and give a shout out to your your handle and stuff and let people know where they can they can find
• 1:04:18
  your content.
• 1:04:19
  You can find me on all of the social media places where people social media, um, @TheOzVlog on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram primarily.
• 1:04:29
  I don't dabble in the app formerly known as Twitter, though it does exist.
• 1:04:32
  Um, so those are the places you can find me.
• 1:04:36
  Thank you again, Tori.
• 1:04:37
  We are so thankful to have you here.
• 1:04:39
  um So that concludes this episode of the BSB Podcast.
• 1:04:44
  Stay tuned for future episodes on Spamalot, Kinky Boots, and Phantom of the Opera.
• 1:04:48
  um Thank you so much for being here and until next curtain call.