Latest / Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast / Soft birth, prenatal depression, and revolutionizing maternal health care

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Soft birth, prenatal depression, and revolutionizing maternal health care · Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast

• Merelise Wilson: right, we are live. Hello and welcome to the Arrivals podcast. I'm your host, Merelise Wilson. ⁓ today I am ⁓ excited to have Nicole Connell with me today. She's a mom, a founder of an amazing company called Mere ⁓ I just can't wait to dig in and talk to you about all things pregnancy, birth and maternal mental health. ⁓ I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Of course. I'm so excited ⁓ connect with you when ⁓ I first heard about your company and everything you did, was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. But then as I've shared with you as well, my nickname, like most of the people close to me in my life called me Mere. And I was like, oh, well, it's just meant to be like, we definitely have to connect. Yes, absolutely. I know. So sweet. I love that. Your name's beautiful. So. Oh, thank you. So you have two little girls. Yes. So Evelyn is my oldest. She's six, almost seven. in kindergarten, so big year for us. And then Loretta is my youngest and she's three and a half. Oh my gosh. And a tear. I know, we were talking about that before. mean, those second born, they're just, they're feral. They're feral. It's something. of the breed. is. Entertaining, but feral. Yes, exactly. And so what was your kind of pregnancy like with Evelyn? What was your journey like? Getting pregnant with Evelyn, it wasn't planned. I know that can be really triggering for some people to hear. So I do recognize that. But yes, we got pregnant with her. It was a surprise for us. And I wanted to be prepared. I wanted to be prepared for pregnancy. I wanted to be prepared for birth. I was the one YouTubing birth stories. I love it. Yes. I wanted, ⁓ as you had said earlier, knowledge is power and I just wanted to be ⁓ in the know on everything that could happen. So pregnancy was just, it's different and not many people talk about it, right? You are expected to glow and have great hair and enjoy eating ice cream. But pregnancy for me, I felt a little limited. I felt limited, not, you know, unable to work out how I wanted or ⁓ unable to eat how I enjoyed. Small things that ⁓ felt ⁓ kind of depressing for me. ⁓ I love to work out. I love to like be active. And so that was a really hard one. ⁓ And I really struggled. I struggled with depression for quite some time with pregnancy. I didn't sleep very much. Depression really can be deeply connected to sleep. Yes, absolutely. And I did not sleep in pregnancy, which was not expected. No one talks about that, right? I know. I feel like you hear people talk about it in the end of pregnancy, like when you're really uncomfortable. Yeah. But. Did you have insomnia throughout your whole pregnancy? Wow. Throughout. Probably started around like 10 weeks pregnant and that was it. I would get like... experienced that before? No, no, never. Never at all. fun symptom that I didn't know about. So at the time, did you do anything to address your symptoms of depression or did you just kind of roll with it and hope for the best? Yeah, I didn't. I didn't at all. And in fact, I didn't think, I don't think I recognized it as prenatal. depression until post. When you're in it, it's hard to recognize. ⁓ We talk about that with patients all the time. So it's hard to see it. And that's why we lean into our OBs or our friends, those around us who can recognize what's going on when maybe we don't. But that wasn't something that was brought up to my attention during that time. So I just went through it. And that was it. Came out the other side. I was on Zoloft through both of my pregnancies, which is amazing that that is an option for women out there. But I do remember in my first pregnancy, I... was had was on it pre pregnancy. Then I got off of it, which was not advisable. And I started having all these intrusive thoughts. Yeah. And pregnancy of like, ⁓ I'm chopping these carrots. What if I accidentally stabbed my stomach with this knife? Yes. Like crazy things. And that's when I knew fortunately, like having a background in mental health with my dad being a psychologist, I knew to be vocal about asking for help. And my OB was like, yeah, you need to get back on Zoloft. That will probably help. but yeah, I definitely relate to those crazy feelings when you're pregnant. Yeah. I'm so proud of you for recognizing ⁓ that. it's hard to see, ⁓ those, those symptoms and what you're thinking. so ⁓ yeah. but pregnancy overall, it was not my favorite. ⁓ That's okay. ⁓ Birth great. So ⁓ you you wanted to know everything about. birth. So did you have a birth plan? Did you, what was kind of like your, your approach? Like what, what interested you about it and what resonated? Yeah. I've always been intrigued by birth. ⁓ growing up, I wanted to be like an OBGYN. ⁓ and so I, I, I just, I wanted to be prepared for anything that could happen, but I didn't want to go in with a plan per se. ⁓ because we all know that anything can happen, right? Yes, it's so unpredictable. So I knew what like my dream might be, but I also went into it eyes wide open, just knowing that anything can happen, to just experience it and to just be in the know when people start screaming out, you know, medications that you might be going on or something like that. So yeah, was just, it was good and I was really thrilled. I was really excited to experience labor and delivery. I know. I do. I remember feeling the same way, like being like, feeling like I was joining a cool club, like, you know, that wanting to experience that feeling of labor and delivery and yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So did you go into labor naturally with Evelyn? I did. It was like a movie scene. Oh really? Yes. They always tell you, you know, you have like a what? 10 % chance of your water breaking and it's like a trickle or something like that. They're like, your water is never going to break in the street. ⁓ That was absolutely me. ⁓ Yes. It was like three days before my due date. I woke up at 2 a.m. and I was like, ⁓ something's not right. I ran to the bathroom and my water broke like a basketball all over the floor. was... way too dramatic. I woke up my husband and he's like, why is the floor wet? So, ⁓ so yes, I did. It went into labor naturally and it was, ⁓ you know, it was like, okay, now we've got to rush to the hospital. ⁓ I had like the, what was it? like the positive struck B test or whatever. So I was like, great, I have to go to the hospital. I can't labor at home. ⁓ but I did know going into it, even though I didn't have a I knew that I wanted to labor as far as I could without an epidural. I felt like it was a little bit of a mental challenge for me. also, again, don't like to be restricted. I like to be active. And so the idea of just being stuck in a bed for too long was not that appealing for me. So I went in knowing I was going to bounce on balls and walk in the room. And I did. I did that. That's awesome. And so wanting to delay the epidural for you. that was mostly just about what you just described, that feeling of not wanting to be restrained. Did it have anything to do with what you had researched about, like progression and labor or anything, or just really like a gut feeling you had? ⁓ My mother has always claimed that she had like a 48-hour labor and had an epidural when she was like three centimeters long. ⁓ So I think in the back of my head, I was like, You know, let's just not even give that a chance, right? I didn't want to put myself in a situation where, ⁓ you know, something might happen. And so I wanted to try and push as long as I could so that, you know, progression could happen. ⁓ Because my water broke, I delivered at Piedmont, ⁓ they did feel strongly that I needed to be on Pitocin. ⁓ yes. And so at the, I, don't know if it's because of how much it broke. have no idea, honestly, but, I was put on bedosin. did immediately when you got there. Immediately when I got there, I arrived like 4 AM. So, ⁓ how dilated you are? Did they check on you? ⁓ when I first got there, it was only like three centimeters. And were you having contractions? ⁓ yes. ⁓ yes. And I had a lot of contractions leading up to, ⁓ like going into labor with both my kids, honestly. So had a ton of Braxton Hicks and stuff and had prodromal laborers. So yeah, so got there, got settled. They put me on Pitocin and I mean, you can do all the research, but Pitocin contractions are another thing. Yes, they're beasts. had an adder with my birth. yes. They are painful. Um, so I got to like six, seven centimeters was on all fours in a bed screaming. I was that, I was that woman in the hospital. And so my husband was like, maybe it's time. Maybe we should just try to do this naturally and let's just get that patrol. Um, and I was like, yeah, that sounds great. Let's do it. So we did. I got an epidural. Um, as soon as I got the epidural, she came an hour later or well, I, I was ready to push an hour later. That's amazing. Yes. You were probably like about to go through transition. Probably. That's why you were like this. Probably sitting in transition. were like, check, I'm out. Holy, I'm done. Thank you. ⁓ my gosh. Yes. So I pushed for three hours with her. ⁓ She came out. The doctor was like, ⁓ it's a nine pound baby. And I was like, what? There's no way. She was not a nine pound baby. Her head is mad. ⁓ okay. That's my second one is his head is huge. He's like in the 97th percentile of my does one tell us? Like body is crazy. Why does no one tell us? I know. Those big old heads. ⁓ my gosh. How much did she end up weighing? ⁓ she was only seven pounds. But it was just all head. It was all head. I'm so sorry. I know. It was, ⁓ yeah, that was fun. But man, when she came out, it just felt. The depression lifted. I felt free in my body again. She was there. It was beautiful. Um, we got to do, you know, skin to skin, um, that golden hours. They call it was just, it was magical. Um, was so magical. So you push for three hours. my gosh. they ever talk to you about like laboring down? There was by the end things were happening in the room where we had a a team come in, a respiratory team come in who was ready for her to come out, not breathing. At the time I was on oxygen at that point. I was a little out of it. I'm just trying to like focus, you know, you're running the marathon at that point. So it wasn't until after that my husband was like, yeah, I think that maybe something was going on. But she came out screaming and it was fine. know, Apgar was great. The team left and it was fine. Yeah. And then what was your, so when you, when you were pushing, were you fully souped up? Like, could you feel anything with epidural or like? With her? I could not. I had requested a light epidural and then, ⁓ they came back and readministered just because it hadn't quite hit the first time, which is fine. It happens. So they came back, ⁓ redid it and it was totally fine, but I was numb. Yeah. So there was not a lot of control there. Yes. That was my guess when you said you pushed for three hours. Yes. ⁓ my goodness. I'm grateful though. Yeah. Probably would have been really painful. That is true. And then what was your recovery like? Did you have any sort of like tears or? Yeah. Unfortunately, I, there wasn't a degree of tear cause I just tore everywhere. ⁓ Unfortunately, cause her head was so big. I split like in a circle, which is wild. All directions? All directions. I've never heard that. I know the ⁓ OB, you know, they start, you know, they're working down there and you're just in like newborn bliss all of a sudden. And it was wild. And I was like, is everything okay? She's like, it's like a spider web. So, ⁓ yes, that recovery took a little longer than I expected. know, I had prepared for like the sweet little newborn walks in the neighborhood. It was a good like three weeks before I could like go for a walk without inducing a ton of bleeding. so I know. So that is a first. I've never heard of. God. So fun. That is so brutal. Crazy big heads. Yeah, I know. Right. You're welcome. ⁓ did you do any sort of like, like public floor therapy afterwards or anything? Like I didn't just kind of let it heal. didn't which ladies don't do that. Don't do that. Do as I say, not as I do. Don't go see someone. Don't do that. Yes, I did not, which at the time, ⁓ I knew what pelvic floor was, but again, it's not heavily promoted. Your OB is typically not saying like, go see pelvic floor, you know, ⁓ unless there's some severe issue. And after three weeks, I was going for runs again. I was like, you know, it just, took a minute to get there. That's all. So that's amazing that you were running again after three weeks. Well, I don't know if that, I think if a pelvic floor therapist heard that, they'd probably be like, what? But you felt good enough. I just wanted to exercise my body again. Yeah. So I probably. did, again, do as I say, not what I do. But overall it was positive, sounds like, even with all of that. Yeah, transition to motherhood was beautiful. I really, really enjoyed it. I loved to be a mom. ⁓ I had an amazing newborn though. So ⁓ I was teed up for success with mental health postpartum with such an awesome newborn. Slept through the night early, yes, like fed well, just had no... You know, it was, it was just very, very easy newborn life. I know. Redemptive after a tough pregnancy. Yes. I think it was a blessing. Honestly, I needed that. Um, especially to even have a thought of a second. Yeah. Yeah. And I've heard you say before that you, um, weren't sure you wanted to have a second. Yes. It was a conversation that my husband and I had. Um, we, you know, both work. a lot. love my jobs. I love what I do. I'm a career girly. And so I knew that I also didn't want to just divide all of my attention between work and kids and them not feel loved on enough. Right. I wanted to make sure I was showing up as a mom in the way that they needed. And so he and I had a long conversation about it many times. The depression in pregnancy No one talks about how difficult mental health, depression, anxiety can wear on your relationship as a couple. know? We hear a lot about what it does to us internally, but it can really hurt a marriage. It can be really hard on marriage. And so pregnancy was hard on our marriage. Because I was in a funk, right? And that pulls people down when they're around you and... And so it was something that my husband said he just wasn't sure he wanted to see me walk through again. I definitely understand that. Yeah. So I went on birth control immediately, you know, the six week visit. And what's your plan? I know. What's your control plan? So I did. went back on birth control. Evelyn was about to turn two and I missed a period. It just never came. And I was like, I'm on birth control. What's going on? You know, and it happens sometimes. I thought nothing of it. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. I was on an oral pill. Took me about three weeks post that like lost period to, to take a test. And it was positive. Do you think you were like just in denial or you were like, have no, I honestly taking that test is a blur. I was I was shocked, truly shocked. I think the feelings of like, cannot walk through depression like that again alone without support. That's not possible. ⁓ And I think that it took, so I didn't find out until later, I guess in pregnancy. And then by the time we got to ultrasound, my OB was like, I just don't know if this pregnancy is going to work. I don't know if the baby's going to live. ⁓ wasn't showing like great signs. And so we ended up miscarrying at around like nine, 10 weeks, I guess. and along with that comes guilt, right? Guilt of like, ⁓ man, I wasn't expecting this pregnancy. I don't know if I was super excited when I got that positive pregnancy test. So there's, there's so much guilt wrapped up in, in all of that. It was something I really had to, to walk through and, ⁓ and overcome. So, and so, throughout this whole period, have you at this point like sought out any sort of therapeutic help or anything? No, still not yet. I hadn't, I hadn't, I didn't seek out any kind of therapy, didn't seek out help. I look back at that now and I'm like, what was I thinking? I think I just didn't know where to go. I didn't know who to see. And honestly it was in such a, I was working full time, I had a toddler. We were in the middle of building our home. So I wasn't even living at home when all this occurred. I was living in an apartment at the time, trying to oversee ⁓ the building of a home, which is always fun for those who have built, know. ⁓ And so it just, it wasn't conducive in life to like even have time to get help essentially, right? Because most therapists want to see you face to face. I didn't even know virtual therapy was a thing at that time in my life. I remember when I was postpartum with my first. We talked about this off mic. My background, my dad was a psychologist. I had been in therapy off and on my whole life. Huge advocate for therapy, I just happened to not, I hadn't been in therapy for a little while when I had my first. And I did end up calling a therapist who, I reached out to a couple of friends that I knew were seeing therapists and I said, who are you seeing? Would you recommend them? And I reached out to one and she, had a full calendar at the time, like she wasn't accepting new patients. And I remember she said to me, but in my experience, honey, usually when a postpartum mom calls me, it's already like... you're in a bad place basically is what she said. was like, so she was like, please, please like find someone and I'll give you recommendations. Cause she was like, I can put you on my wait list if you want, but like if you're calling me, I think you probably need to like go talk to someone sooner than I will be able to talk to you. How kind of her. know. And she was so right. Like, cause it, you wait, you wait, you wait. And then you finally pull that trigger and make the call. And it feels like such a step. And then, you know, for them to not be able to like see you or take you. And yeah, she was right. I was like ready in that moment. I was like, I need to start today. Yes. Yes. Um, so I feel like so often we see women who are sitting in the crisis before they're willing to reach out for help. So that's something we need to fix as moms. I I completely agree. That's a whole nother conversation. know. you're walking through this season of life where you are, you have a toddler, you're building a home, you are working full time and you have this miscarriage and then I up changing jobs ⁓ about months after that. ⁓ Going through life transitions like that is hard. ⁓ And I think that I was walking through my own version of depression in that moment of just grief. ⁓ Grief ⁓ of lost baby, grief of a loss, like comfort of just being in a home and having space to just be. ⁓ and then losing a job, was just, it was, it was a loss period, ⁓ which is hard to walk through. And it was six months later that I was on yet another form of birth control that I found out at nine weeks pregnant that I was pregnant with my now. youngest daughter. ⁓ my gosh. Yes. So my husband's now had a vasectomy. I was going to say, you guys are dangerous together. My husband's now had a vasectomy. Yes. I, and like I said, I know that that can be really triggering for women who walk through years and years of infertility, right? And are just like, that's sickening that you can just get pregnant so easily. At Mere, we always say like every woman's story, there's a place for every woman's story. And your heart is hard and that's okay. And this was hard for us. This was hard for our life, what we had been through. So getting pregnant without, not on purpose was our hard because we weren't prepared for it mentally. I love what you said that. Yes, absolutely. Like everyone's heart is hard. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think the blessing of that pregnancy was I was incredibly tied up mentally with dealing with our house and working and having a toddler. And so I was so distracted. There wasn't really time to focus on all the things I couldn't do in pregnancy. You know, I could barely work out anywhere. was so busy. You know, so it was just different. I didn't struggle depression that pregnancy. was, it was honestly kind of a blur. feel like it went by really quickly just with everything going on. Yeah. So with that one, was there any sort of birth prep or did you kind of feel like, I've done it once. I'll just rinse and repeat sort of thing. I know. No, actually there was no birth prep. When you go through a loss and miscarriage, think that there it's very easy pregnancy after, after loss, it's easy to not allow yourself to commit to that child. Yeah, I've heard that consistently. Yeah. ⁓ and so I think, I think that that was where I sat for quite some time. ⁓ probably deep into my second trimester before I was like, okay, like we're probably going to have this baby. I had, I had some bleeding off and on, with her because I had placenta, I had early like placenta previa, any kind of, you know, bleeding with a pregnancy, especially after a loss, it just kind of reassures like you cannot commit to this mentally. And so, So yeah, I think it took a while for me to get excited, if that makes sense. Absolutely, I think that's so understandable. Yeah, so there wasn't a lot of research or planning. It was very much just like, can't think about this. I'm just gonna focus on what's in front of me right now. Day to day. Yeah, yeah. yeah. I also went into labor naturally with her. My water did not break. It was a week before she was due, I started having contractions. Had them for quite some time, went into the OB's office just to get checked and she was like, yep, head over. ⁓ really? Like you were having active labor. Wow. I was admitted that day. It was so quiet in comparison to my first birth. The drama of the water breaking. Exactly, drama of the water breaking and rushing around to the hospital. It's your first baby, pitocin, contraction. It was just like loud. It was a loud labor and delivery. ⁓ This was such, it felt like redemption a little bit. It was such a soft delivery and labor. I went to the hospital. It was very calm. ⁓ I got checked in at like 5 PM. I was eating Chick-fil-A in the bed. Dr. came in and was like, hey, you're in active labor. Do you want me to just break your water? I was like, go for it. Let's get this show on the road. And I labored naturally for until 1 a.m. Wow. Yeah. And it was beautiful and soft and not a single person came into our room in that entire time. Just like left us alone. My husband and I just like watched movies and talked. I actually didn't bounce with her. I walked. like, paste the room for, I remember my husband was like, that was like a six hour walk, what are you doing? You got yourself in. I know, but like it was just, I don't know, it did, it felt redemptive, it felt quiet and calm and what I needed after kind of those two years of just a lot, a lot. So it was beautiful. I got an epidural at like 1 a.m. and I was like, give it to me. put me on Pitocin, let's get her here. And she was there an hour later. Do you remember how far along you were, or how dilated you were when you got the epidural this time? I was five centimeters when I got to the hospital. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. So then I don't, I probably, I don't, I didn't progress that much in that time. So I was only like six or seven when I got the epidural. I just knew that if we got epidural, got Pitocin, she'd she'd just be there. And I was like, I don't want to be tired. Just give it to me. Yes. ⁓ I absolutely understand that. Yeah. Did you feel like the non-potosin contractions were so different? So different. So much more manageable. Yes. Yes. Wild. And you said that you experienced potosin contractions versus non. Yes. What did you think? I will say that both of my, so with my, my first, it was a longer labor and The pitocin contractions were horrible and I was on a low dose of pitocin. was horrible. And with my second, it was so fast. So they were horrible because it was all really like together. it just came, like it was back to back. just, once it started, I really didn't get a reprieve. So it's hard for me to really compare pitocin to non-pitocin because they were just different labors. But I have heard that pitocin it's yeah, it's just off the charts. Off the charts painful. It is wild. And the non-pitocin contractions, It was like are these contractions? I mean, I know they are but it just didn't hurt. you know, it was just it felt different I guess so it was yeah. I know it was lovely and then what was pushing like with her five minutes five minutes. Oh my god. She does not have a 100 percentile head Thank you. She's like my 15 percentile Thank you Loretta. Thank you. Just slithered on out. Oh my god. It was 2 a.m. And so it was you know, the room was dark. had two people in the room. was doctor, nurse and my husband. Like so three people, but like that was it. Were you at the same practice? Same OB practice? Same OB practice. I was back at Piedmont. Um, it was just such a different delivery with Evelyn. I think it delivered at 4 PM in the afternoon. So delivering in the middle of the night where it's quiet, no one's screaming in the hospital. No one's running around. It just, again, the whole process just felt so peaceful. and redemptive and I needed that and so yeah it was beautiful. I know. If I didn't have to get pregnant again I would love to go through labor and delivery again. I feel the same way. like, I would love to birth another baby. Now being pregnant and raising them, I don't know. Just that one point right there. Just that one little day. And then you any tears? Did you tear in the same places? If I tore, it was probably like a first or a second. Like nothing, nothing at all. is so... Amazing, especially considering that you didn't do like any prep after having such a like severe, ⁓ like tear situation with your first. that, yeah, that's awesome. I know I still, it's wild because I still have pain from my first tear. Wow. Like, I mean, pain with sex ladies, if you have pain with sex, go to a pelvic floor therapist. But yes, it can be, it's still painful at times, which is so crazy. The scars that we bear for our kiddos. You know, it's all worth it, but damn the man. So, but yeah, so beautiful. So it was beautiful. And then what was postpartum like with her? I worked at a company where I did not have the ability to take a maternity leave. So I took three weeks vacation and then I went back to work full time. It was. It was a work from home position, but a very intense sales position. so ⁓ we were actually creeping up on, she was born October 1st, so we hit Q4 and I was expected to just keep going. It was Q4 and you have to make that a great quarter in sales world. And so it was hard. It was really hard. That's horrible. Yeah. I remember sitting on a blanket outside of our house trying to take her like one month pictures and just sobbing and just thinking like this is it can't get any worse than this. I can't show up from my oldest. I'm exhausted. I'm not sleeping at all. ⁓ I can't give what I need to. I can't connect with this baby in front of me because I'm so busy working and taking care of a toddler and taking care of life. ⁓ And that's when the depression just really set in. And from there, I tried to find a therapist. And like you said, you call a therapist and typically they're booked, right? And then you're like, how do I have time? I don't have time to go search for these therapists. Can someone give me a list? But my OB didn't have a list. No one else could give me anybody. And so ⁓ I just walked through it. I walked through it alone. ⁓ It took 14 months for that child to sleep through the night. it. my goodness. ⁓ I think, I think depression for me can, is very easily induced by sleep deprivation. ⁓ absolutely agree with that. Yeah. And so I think the moment she started sleeping through the night and I was actually sleeping myself, ⁓ changed. ⁓ yeah, I started Mere three months later. And yeah, I'd love to talk about that. So if you could tell the audience what, what is Mere ⁓ It's amazing. Yes. is. ⁓ It's been the biggest blessing. ⁓ Mere we are completely virtual ⁓ healthcare company for moms. So we take care of women from trying to conceive ⁓ all the way through. have women walking through perimenopause ⁓ our clinic. ⁓ we do it all. ⁓ We say that our tagline is for every chapter, for every chapter of motherhood because there are such, there's such hard chapters, right? Pregnancy and postpartum is just a glimpse of what motherhood can carry. ⁓ And so I wanted to create a space, a one-stop shop that was collaborative in the same way that you experience collaborative care model when you take your kid to CHOA. and you have everyone rounding on you in one place and everyone's talking to everyone, right? It's so great. We don't experience that in traditional healthcare. Your therapist is not talking to your OB and your OB is not talking to your pelvic floor therapist. And you were expected to carry your story everywhere and to make sure that it's being relayed the right way, understood the right way and treated the right way. ⁓ And that's hard when you're sitting in these hard chapters. And so I wanted to create a place where women could just take a breath and know that they will be cared for without having to worry about it, without the onus being on them. So that's incredible. Yeah. I mean, even sometimes within the same practice, I've had friends express that, you know, if they see one doctor one week and one doctor the next week, I had a friend who had ⁓ an ectopic pregnancy and you know, sometimes the doctor wouldn't take a chance. a minute to read her chart and then she'd have to re-explain everything and it was upsetting and hard and just that lack of consistency. And ⁓ that time spent, that continuity, that time spent, that thoughtfulness, it sounds like that's what you're building at Mere and that is so critical. And it's what we all deserve. And it's so wild that it's not just table stakes. ⁓ I hope in my lifetime, I hope by the time my girls are having babies, that the traditional landscape has changed for mothers. ⁓ I hope that health care digs deeper and that the insurance system allows our providers to do that because I think it's a system issue and not the provider's fault. And so I'm hopeful that I can be a part of leading that charge one day ⁓ because gracious it's needed, right? to sit for an hour in front of a physician. I mean, I've seen our nurse practitioner, you know, and to sit for an hour and just give your story and you're like, never connected that dot. No one's asked me that question. It is, it's a game changer for moms. It really is. So. And just, mean, you you spoke about like the, the struggle of finding the time, you know, to find the resource. And it's just such a huge, like the mental load of everything that we are doing every single day is just huge. And to just take that one piece of it out, like, my goodness. Yeah. That's just amazing. Yeah. I call it the silent burden. Yes. We carry this silent burden, logistics and, you know, doctor's appointments and, you know, lunch room schedules and all the things, all the things. ⁓ You said it earlier, we wait until we're in a crisis. You wait until you need help that day. ⁓ At Mere we always have an appointment available in the same week. Because that was my number one rule. We have to have enough providers that there's always an appointment available because we cannot make a mom wait. That's amazing. So how does it work? Do you guys work with insurance as well? We do not. Not at this time. We are completely self-paying. Yeah. But we pay per, it's not like a membership fee. You're not buying up, you know, you're not buying like X amount of therapy sessions or anything like that. You just pay per appointment. Okay. So ⁓ very, I mean, we're true healthcare. Yeah. So while we can't, while we don't have contracts in network with insurance providers, we do have a partnership with Mentio where we ⁓ can utilize your out of network benefits to get reimbursed if you have them, if you've hit your deductible. Especially if you've given birth, typically you've creeped on that out of network deductible. And so that's when we are able to reduce that cost simply by giving the super bill over to insurance. yeah. Do you consider yourself a concierge medicine? I think that's probably a good way to term us. have never used that in our marketing. But yes, I had a patient in need of a medication the other day, a specialty drug. And specialty pharmacies are different from retail pharmacies. So can't just go to your CVS and get a specialty drug. I did hear that. Yes. so she had called the pharmacy, asked for a medication. And they were like, well, you can get it in a few days. You know, I got on the phone with the pharmacy, I sat on the phone with them for two hours. She got the drug the next day. Those are things that we are willing to do. We're willing to go out of the way for our patients because again, you don't have time, right? You're busy. You're in the hard chapter. Let us take care of that. So whether you call that concierge, I don't know, but it's just going the extra mile. say, do you find time? ⁓ I feel like The Lord has granted me a lot of capacity right now, if I'm being honest. I feel like I, I mean, I work two jobs. I do have two full-time jobs and that's a lot. Three, because Adam's mom. Three with kids. Yeah, Adam's mom. And I would be lying if I didn't say I have my own moments right now. You know, ⁓ I went on Lexapro from our nurse practitioner. I'm seeing a therapist. So it's not an easy season, but it is such a rewarding season and that's what makes the difference. I relate to that for sure. Yeah. I feel like also when you find something that just feels like you can't not do it. And I feel like that's what you feel like with Mere is like, it's just too important not to do. Yeah. And so that's the vibe I get when you talk about it. And so you'll figure it out because it's like a calling. Yeah, you're exactly right. I feel like I was born for this, to take care of moms. I love that. We're so lucky to have you. I don't know about that. you know, I just, I feel like that's my calling in life. Everyone has like their own. calling and say, I feel like this is mine. So it's so beautiful. And how amazing to have discovered it. Obviously you discovered it in a hard way, you know, going through tough times and challenges yourself, but how amazing to have figured it out and found your calling like relatively young. Yeah. Yeah. And also I think as, as a founder, as an entrepreneur, ⁓ you find the most successful companies when your founder has walked through the pain and found the solution to the pain. Right? And so when we as moms know what these moms on the other side of the camera need, it's really beautiful. And it's, you know, it's just great to help them. So it's amazing. Yeah. well, I always like to round us out by asking my guests to describe birth in three words, taking it back to birth, comes to mind. Three words, let's see. humbling and beautiful. I'd say it's just for me, my labor was gracious. And I feel like not every woman has that. But I feel like the Lord gave me a gracious labor and delivery where I just could enjoy them. Gracious. That's beautiful. I haven't heard someone say that. like that. Gracious. Well, I'm grateful that you spent some time with me today. really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Of course. This was wonderful. Thank you for everything you're doing. It's such important work and I'm so excited for more people to learn about Mere. Well, thank you for what you're doing. It's so nice to hear these beautiful stories. So, it's so uplifting. Yes, that's what I have to Yes, it is. So. All right. Well, you've been listening to the Arrivals podcast. Until next time. Thank you.