Latest / Constellations and all that... / 80. Listening to the Land: Nature Constellations and Ancestral Wisdom with Aiste Samsonovaite

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80. Listening to the Land: Nature Constellations and Ancestral Wisdom with Aiste Samsonovaite · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy: Kia ora, and welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:03
  Tracy: I'm your host, Tracey Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators from, and clients from around the world, looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  Tracy: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  Tracy: I hope that you enjoy
• 0:26
  Aiste: this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:33
  Tracy: Kia ora, everyone.
• 0:34
  Tracy: Welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:37
  Tracy: Today, I have the pleasure of talking to my friend Aiste Samsonovaite.
• 0:43
  Tracy: I think I might have s- we've just been practicing saying your last name.
• 0:47
  Tracy: But I'm gonna invite you please, Aiste, to introduce yourself a bit more and share with the listeners and the viewers who… A, a little bit about you.
• 0:56
  Aiste: Hmm.
• 0:57
  Aiste: Kia ora.
• 0:57
  Aiste: Thank you Tracy for having me here, for inviting.
• 1:01
  Aiste: It's lovely to be with you again.
• 1:03
  Aiste: So I come from Lithuania, from one of the Baltic states in the northeast Europe.
• 1:08
  Aiste: Guess for some people it's good to know where it is.
• 1:10
  Aiste: And, uh, yeah, my name Aiste, which is, uh, coming from my land.
• 1:16
  Aiste: It's actually the tribal name.
• 1:18
  Aiste: It's our tribe name from long time ago.
• 1:21
  Aiste: Yeah, I was born in the 1989, just before the collapse of Soviet Union, and you know, the freedom and the reconnection with the ancestors and our culture was very much in the air.
• 1:33
  Aiste: So yeah, that's how it came, came to me, and the connection to ancestors, it's part of what I carry in my name.
• 1:41
  Aiste: So I'm a constellations facilitator, and I do walk a ceremonial path for many years now, been adopted into a tribe in north of Canada, Anishinaabe people, and it's a really big part of my life.
• 1:54
  Aiste: It really guides me-
• 1:56
  Tracy: Yeah… Aiste: on my journeys.
• 1:57
  Tracy: And, uh, yeah, we've experienced some of that together.
• 2:01
  Tracy: We have.
• 2:02
  Tracy: It's been amazing.
• 2:03
  Aiste: Being guided on some ceremonial places.
• 2:04
  Aiste: And I am also a psychologist.
• 2:06
  Aiste: I did study bachelor's and master's degree in health psychology, and worked a bit in a mental hospital, so do have that experience as well.
• 2:15
  Tracy: Wow.
• 2:16
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 2:16
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 2:16
  Tracy: And you and I met in Mexico, in Mérida last year, and I've been watching you, um, enjoying watching you traveling and sharing your magic around all over the place actually.
• 2:31
  Tracy: You're quite the… You described yourself as a nomad.
• 2:35
  Tracy: I was referring- … to gypsy'cause there's gypsy in me.
• 2:38
  Tracy: But nomad, yeah.
• 2:40
  Tracy: Can you talk a little bit- Mm-hmm … about that?
• 2:42
  Tracy: About what you're doing, what you're up to at the moment?
• 2:45
  Aiste: Yeah, I was just coming into terms myself with this, with this description.
• 2:49
  Aiste: Like, who am I?
• 2:50
  Aiste: A nomad.
• 2:50
  Aiste: I guess it's true, you know.
• 2:52
  Aiste: I've been traveling a lot.
• 2:54
  Aiste: I, I build this relationship with the land where I go.
• 2:58
  Aiste: Mm. And then time passes, and I just feel I need to go there again.
• 3:02
  Aiste: So I do have friends and people and ceremonial family as well that, I mean, I feel called and invited to go to, but it's also the land that just talks and says, "Okay, like, come visit me.
• 3:14
  Aiste: Let's see what wants to open up, what, what's here to share between us."
• 3:18
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 3:19
  Tracy: Yeah, you took us to an amazing place on the way to- Ushma?
• 3:25
  Tracy: Were we going to Ushma that day?
• 3:27
  Aiste: Exactly, yeah.
• 3:28
  Aiste: Yeah, yeah
• 3:28
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:29
  Tracy: And, um, so Ushma, for those who don't know, is the, um, temple that is behind me in this, in this image that I've popped up there.
• 3:38
  Tracy: And we went to a, to a shaman in, um, on a hill in a very remote location.
• 3:47
  Tracy: Well, on the way to the, to there.
• 3:48
  Tracy: And g- yeah, I don't know.
• 3:51
  Tracy: You wanna talk about that a little bit?
• 3:52
  Tracy: W- it was an amazing experience.
• 3:54
  Tracy: A, um-
• 3:56
  Aiste: So we met with you, Tracey, in the, in the conference, right?
• 3:59
  Aiste: And then you had some days, free days after with some people- Mm of New Zealand and Australia.
• 4:05
  Aiste: And I was very pleased that you've invited me to travel with you, and just these little things happen on the way.
• 4:11
  Aiste: Like, we could stop in one of the places that I knew from many years ago, that I met this elder there.
• 4:17
  Aiste: And I didn't know, will they be there or not?
• 4:19
  Aiste: But I just knew- Mm that they carry that story of the dwarfs, of the little people.
• 4:24
  Aiste: They don't say dwarfs.
• 4:25
  Aiste: Little people living there, like the spirits of the land.
• 4:28
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 4:29
  Aiste: And I thought you might like to connect with that, because it's something very unique for that area and for the Mayan people in Yucatan.
• 4:36
  Tracy: It was, and it was amazing s- um, place.
• 4:39
  Tracy: And, uh, the shaman was taking us through a, an experience with, um, sound and s- he'd used, been using smoke and, you know, doing a ceremony to invite us into the land and that.
• 4:52
  Tracy: And I'll never forget that one.
• 4:54
  Tracy: He was drumming away, and then his drumstick just went flying up into the… It snapped in half, went flying up into the air and wedged up in the roof.
• 5:03
  Tracy: And he hadn't even realized.
• 5:05
  Tracy: And he was still drumming away.
• 5:07
  Tracy: But his, uh- Mm … one of his comrades had, uh, had realized.
• 5:11
  Tracy: It was amazing.
• 5:12
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 5:13
  Tracy: Amazing experience.
• 5:14
  Tracy: And, and the land was so… It felt really familiar.
• 5:19
  Tracy: Mm. And I think that's what you feel a lot about land when you're traveling, and you feel that connection.
• 5:25
  Tracy: And there was something really, for me, really familiar about Mexico in, in itself.
• 5:31
  Tracy: So-
• 5:31
  Aiste: Mm… Tracy: it was beautiful.
• 5:32
  Aiste: I feel that place, you know, because people, people continue acknowledging the land and the, and the spirits that are there, or just, you know, the essence that's there, and live in that respectful way.
• 5:45
  Aiste: It's something so ancient and ancestral that, that we all- Mm … recognize.
• 5:50
  Aiste: There is- Mm … that homecoming in some, some-
• 5:52
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 5:54
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 5:55
  Tracy: So you're a family constellation facilitator, and you- Mm … travel around quite a bit sharing your, um, your work.
• 6:03
  Tracy: Can you tell me… So at the moment, where are, where in the world are you?
• 6:07
  Aiste: I'm in Switzerland now, just for a few weeks.
• 6:10
  Aiste: I used to come here few summers before, and actually did a retreat here last, last year, a camp on the mountain- Oh, nice … of constellations.
• 6:20
  Aiste: And, uh, I guess it's again the same, like, connection with the Alps, with this place.
• 6:25
  Aiste: It's really good to be here.
• 6:27
  Aiste: Be here again.
• 6:28
  Aiste: Yeah
• 6:28
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 6:29
  Tracy: And so do you… Because all facilitators have different styles, how would you describe your style of work?
• 6:35
  Tracy: Obviously connecting to the land, how does that connect in with the ancestors and bringing in your
• 6:41
  Aiste: sacred land?
• 6:41
  Aiste: Yeah, I still feel like I'm a very, you know, traditional family constellation facilitator, really following, you know, Bert Hellinger's initial work, and my teacher Barbara Morgan.
• 6:54
  Aiste: So staying with those, I guess like, uh, ground teachings.
• 6:59
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 7:00
  Aiste: Um, but I, I truly love the work of Francesca Mason Boring as well, and bringing the nature in.
• 7:05
  Aiste: And whenever I have, you know, more days when it's, you know, a few day workshop or a camp, I love bringing nature and doing constellations with nature and inviting the elements that are there and just saying, "Okay," like, "is there something you wanna share with us?
• 7:19
  Aiste: We are open to receive, to witness, and, um, yeah, to be in that, uh, relationship."
• 7:25
  Tracy: Great.
• 7:26
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 7:26
  Aiste: And another thing that you really inspired me to do as well, I was always so curious about sound, you know, like… 'Cause sound is so powerful.
• 7:34
  Aiste: I love starting the, the constellations, like I love starting with a prayer initially.
• 7:40
  Aiste: Um, but then I love like singing a song together that really, you know, you can just feel how it like clicks us all together.
• 7:47
  Aiste: It already like brings us all so much closer.
• 7:50
  Aiste: And then I learned, you know, that within the constellation when it gets really stuck or there's kind of no more movement forward, I just trust now to, to, to be guided to take my rattle from time to time and walk around the, the space and just allow that movement, inviting others even to make a sound and to bring that in.
• 8:10
  Aiste: So that's something new I've been working with the last year.
• 8:14
  Aiste: It's been really beautiful.
• 8:15
  Aiste: Lovely.
• 8:15
  Aiste: So I'm also grateful for you for showing it to me, you know?
• 8:18
  Aiste: And I just… And I was like, "Oh yeah." Yeah.
• 8:20
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 8:21
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:22
  Tracy: It kind of showed itself to me and I was like, "Oh, this is so different to what I've seen" Mm you know?
• 8:29
  Tracy: Um, and so really had to just… It kept coming back and coming back and all right.
• 8:35
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 8:36
  Tracy: Tried it out and it was like, oh yeah, this, the field really wants this to happen, because you know sound there is vibrations in the frequencies and even our language, right?
• 8:44
  Tracy: You know, the other
• 8:45
  Aiste: thing I've, I've discovered with that, it's like inviting other peop- It usually for me comes in the end of constellation.
• 8:51
  Aiste: So we've been already for a while working together with that one, one person's field within that field.
• 8:58
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 8:58
  Aiste: And then just saying, "Okay," like,"let's see if we can support this somehow, support the system." Like, like invite that love even from ourselves- Mm … as humans we're just present in the circle.
• 9:10
  Aiste: Like just make some sound, whatever comes And truly magic happens.
• 9:15
  Aiste: Like how, how we become a tribe, I don't know.
• 9:18
  Aiste: We just become this united force that can, that can bring change or just support the change to, to happen, um-
• 9:28
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 9:29
  Tracy: Well, I think if you think about the different nations, the different nationalities, the tr- you know, when you go back to the, our, our ancestors of the fire, sound, whether it was stomping of the feet, clapping, or, you know, or just humming even, was all- Mm part of the healing, isn't it?
• 9:50
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 9:50
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 9:51
  Aiste: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:53
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 9:54
  Tracy: So beautiful.
• 9:54
  Tracy: So beautiful.
• 9:55
  Tracy: So tell me, how do you… how did you first meet constellations?
• 10:00
  Tracy: W- how did you get involved?
• 10:02
  Aiste: So I was aware about it for, for many years as I studied psychology, you know, when I was 20 and all, but, mm, never fully drawed me in.
• 10:11
  Aiste: I always had, like, some resistance.
• 10:13
  Aiste: Wasn't sure what is this.
• 10:14
  Aiste: The name sounds weird.
• 10:17
  Aiste: And then one time I just saw it online, I guess, like that Barbara was coming to Lithuania, Barbara Morgan.
• 10:23
  Aiste: She, she used to come for some years.
• 10:26
  Aiste: And, uh, I change… I just knew.
• 10:28
  Aiste: Like for many it happens.
• 10:29
  Aiste: I just knew I need to be there.
• 10:31
  Aiste: Mm. And, um, yeah, after representing, stepping into the field, just being there, I had this sense like I know this work.
• 10:39
  Aiste: I haven't read about it.
• 10:40
  Aiste: I don't know what she's doing like what- Yeah … what are the laws or, yeah, the orders.
• 10:46
  Aiste: Just all was new, but inside of me, my soul, I just knew.
• 10:51
  Aiste: I know this work.
• 10:52
  Aiste: I recognize.
• 10:53
  Aiste: I remember.
• 10:54
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 10:54
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 10:55
  Aiste: And then she was saying, "I'll do, I'll do the training," so I was just the first person to go in and say, "Okay, I'm here."
• 11:01
  Tracy: Did she do the training in Lithuania or in England?
• 11:04
  Aiste: No, in England.
• 11:06
  Aiste: In England.
• 11:06
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 11:07
  Tracy: Oh, beautiful.
• 11:07
  Tracy: I would love to, I'd love to meet her someday.
• 11:10
  Tracy: Um- Yeah … yeah.
• 11:11
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:12
  Tracy: She's a, she's done a lot of important work in for family constellations, isn't she?
• 11:17
  Tracy: And held that space of the Knowing Field for a very long time with her.
• 11:22
  Tracy: For those who don't know, the Knowing Field is a… It was a printed, like a n- like kind of like a newsletter but journal sort of thing, and then it became… It's online, isn't it?
• 11:32
  Tracy: And you can, you can get copies of it online.
• 11:37
  Tracy: I think it's- Yeah … still under… You just look up the Knowing Field journal, and yeah.
• 11:43
  Tracy: Heaps of information.
• 11:43
  Tracy: That's amazing.
• 11:44
  Tracy: Lots of, lots of letters and emails and exercises and all of that from many, many different facilitators, some that are, are no longer with us.
• 11:54
  Tracy: So it's a great resource.
• 11:56
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 11:57
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 11:58
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 11:58
  Tracy: So how do you describe it when you're wandering the earth and you're meeting new people and they ask you what you do?
• 12:07
  Tracy: How do you describe it?
• 12:09
  Aiste: I guess it depends on the person I talk to.
• 12:12
  Aiste: Um, because that's… Yeah, it's not easy to describe.
• 12:16
  Aiste: It's always just inviting.
• 12:18
  Aiste: Mm. Like, come, come and experience it.
• 12:21
  Aiste: I guess I start about like that it's a way of stepping out of our individualistic way of being and seeing things and seeing ourselves and our problems and issues, and, uh, going into this wider systemic or collective seeing.
• 12:38
  Aiste: I like to name that, you know, the person who brought this work to us is Bert Hellinger, and that he also spent a lot of time with a tribe in South Africa, with the Zulu tribe.
• 12:47
  Aiste: And there are some teachings that, that you can just feel there is this like knowing of the, of the collective field of the, of the community.
• 12:56
  Aiste: So I like to name that and to name our interrelatedness with our ancestors as well, that they matter and their experiences matter and we are not separate.
• 13:05
  Aiste: So some of the things that we are living now might be the consequence, I guess, of the, of the lives of our ancestors and some of the pain and troubles that we carry might be Something that come from there, so it's really a beautiful way to look at that and to see some of those patterns and to see, and possibly bring love-
• 13:28
  Tracy: Hmm
• 13:28
  Aiste: into, into that line, into our-
• 13:31
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 13:32
  Tracy: That's a beautiful way to describe it.
• 13:34
  Aiste: Thank you.
• 13:35
  Tracy: When you're working with the land and you're working with constellations… Just trying to think of the, how the to formulate this question.
• 13:44
  Tracy: How w- how w- Okay, I'll just go, I'll just keep it really simple.
• 13:47
  Tracy: How do you, how do you work with the land and constellations together?
• 13:51
  Aiste: I love doing, you know, like a nature constellation or land constellation as I named before.
• 13:57
  Aiste: Like inviting… For example, in Glastonbury I do run workshops quite often, actually co-facilitate with my colleague.
• 14:04
  Aiste: And Wiltshire in UK and Glastonbury, and it's one of the pilgrimage sites too in England.
• 14:09
  Aiste: Mm-hmm.
• 14:10
  Aiste: One of the im- really important ones in Europe.
• 14:12
  Aiste: Um, so for example there we, we did this constellation where we bring just what pe- what comes to people to relating to that place.
• 14:22
  Aiste: You know, so there is a sacred hill.
• 14:23
  Aiste: There are the water springs, the red spring, the white spring.
• 14:27
  Aiste: There is a Magdalene temple that's really drawing a lot of people there, and the rose, and then the local people, the pilgrims, the tourists.
• 14:36
  Aiste: So we just bring everything that's there, and we do a blind constellation often with that, setting it up and seeing what comes and what, what the place itself want to tell us, right?
• 14:49
  Aiste: Hmm.
• 14:49
  Tracy: Hmm.
• 14:50
  Tracy: Like,
• 14:50
  Aiste: it's a, maybe it needs something from us.
• 14:52
  Aiste: Like, sometimes we, we forget and things happen just because the land needs something, so why not to do it in a good way?
• 14:59
  Aiste: So that's
• 15:00
  Tracy: one- Beautiful.
• 15:01
  Tracy: So, so giving back to the, to the area.
• 15:03
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 15:04
  Aiste: Beautiful.
• 15:05
  Aiste: It was amazing.
• 15:05
  Aiste: That constellation, I just remembered it now because actually the whole thing turned upside down.
• 15:09
  Aiste: Like, the clouds became on the ground.
• 15:12
  Aiste: The tower that's there became upside down, and it felt like, oh, we really l- reached the, um, the Avalon, which is another name for that place.
• 15:20
  Aiste: Ah.
• 15:20
  Aiste: Which is more a spirit realm of that place.
• 15:23
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 15:24
  Aiste: It's like, wow, how beautiful this field is, but it's really, you know, shows us- What's there?
• 15:30
  Aiste: Mm.
• 15:31
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 15:32
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 15:33
  Tracy: So a lot of people aren't familiar with, with, um, land or nature constellations.
• 15:39
  Tracy: Is there a- w- how else does it show up for you in a nature constellation or a land constellation?
• 15:44
  Tracy: Just give a, for those who aren't aware of them- Mm … so much.
• 15:49
  Aiste: Nature constellation.
• 15:51
  Aiste: I mean, I don't know, like bringing nature as a resource inside the constellation, the elements of nature, the places that people are really connected to just to support them in the process or some, you know, some plants or some hills from our childhood might be a really huge support to, to just set it up in the constellation and see- Mm-hmm you know, how, how the, the field can change.
• 16:14
  Aiste: Um, yeah, t- just recently, you know, I, I found out that it's really important sometimes where the big traumas happen to us to include those places.
• 16:24
  Aiste: Nature as well-
• 16:25
  Tracy: Yeah… Aiste: as a resource, as a support, and as There is the land also with us, so- Mm
• 16:32
  Aiste: yeah, that can be powerful as well.
• 16:35
  Tracy: Yeah, I think sometimes as humans we forget that we're a part of everything that is around us as well.
• 16:41
  Tracy: I, I do remember- Mm … Francesca years ago, um, I was at a workshop of hers and, oh, it was probably about 12 years ago, and in the constellation we were outside, we were having this experience, and it was like, um, a, some of, part of a tree fell down at this particular moment.
• 17:00
  Tracy: Mm. And it was like nature was giving us another sign, you know?
• 17:04
  Tracy: It was, that was part of the constellation, a kind of a message from there.
• 17:08
  Tracy: And then, um, and then there were birds that came in and just trying to think.
• 17:14
  Tracy: There was something else that happened.
• 17:16
  Tracy: Oh, I think there were some children 'cause where we were was we were sharing this area, um, with a school group as well.
• 17:23
  Aiste: Mm.
• 17:23
  Tracy: And it had been very quiet, and we were all doing this beautiful constellation, you know, and having this moment.
• 17:30
  Tracy: This branch had fallen down, and there was these birds, and then all of a sudden there was these bursts of laughter and all these young children come running through, almost like literally through the middle of our constellation, having the time of our life, and it was so pertinent to what we were doing, you know?
• 17:46
  Tracy: So- Yeah, when we look at the, the other signs, not just what's happening in this moment of this field and what we're seeing there, but all of the other signs around us as well.
• 17:57
  Tracy: That's what I love about, I love about when… the awareness that it brings, yeah, when you're open to that.
• 18:04
  Aiste: And you do work a lot with nature yourself, right?
• 18:07
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:08
  Tracy: More and more.
• 18:09
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 18:09
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 18:10
  Tracy: Um, yeah, and I think you were part, I think you were part of the constellation I did in Mexico where we worked with the land and we worked with the, your maunga, which is your mountain, and your awa, which is your river.
• 18:23
  Aiste: Love that.
• 18:23
  Tracy: And, um, yeah, that is very potent.
• 18:26
  Tracy: Very potent.
• 18:27
  Tracy: It takes us all, all places.
• 18:30
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:30
  Aiste: Yeah, beautiful.
• 18:30
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 18:30
  Aiste: Remembering like what's the mountain of your father or what's the mountain of your mother, or the river of your mother, your father.
• 18:37
  Tracy: Mm.
• 18:38
  Aiste: Oh, that's really profound.
• 18:39
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 18:40
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:40
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:41
  Tracy: And then you could just, you could also just say that the, an ancestor.
• 18:46
  Tracy: Because- Mm … we've got millions of them.
• 18:48
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:49
  Tracy: And it could be just, just by being as open as that, and it might be… I did one once where, um, so I have s- Sami ancestry from- Mm … up in, um, Scandinavia.
• 18:59
  Tracy: And so I just asked for, uh, one of the Sa- Sami mountain and Sami awa.
• 19:06
  Tracy: And, phw, it actually took me to the ground as soon as the constellation started, and I was meant to be giving a demonstration.
• 19:12
  Tracy: And, um, and then, yeah, did a little bit of work around that and brought myself, got b- myself able to stand up and stuff.
• 19:19
  Tracy: But it was so powerful.
• 19:21
  Tracy: A- and I didn't expect that, and yeah.
• 19:25
  Tracy: And I don't know why I didn't expect it to be potent and powerful, but it was, um, yeah, it was un, it was unexpected at that time.
• 19:31
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 19:32
  Tracy: So, and what else?
• 19:34
  Tracy: What else have you been up to?
• 19:36
  Tracy: So have you got any workshops coming up?
• 19:38
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 19:39
  Aiste: Um, I'll be going back to Lithuania, so I will be holding workshops there in July and in August, and then going back to UK in
• 19:51
  Tracy: September for a weekend.
• 19:51
  Tracy: Um- Nice.
• 19:52
  Tracy: And do you do stuff online as well?
• 19:55
  Aiste: Yeah, I do, I do.
• 19:55
  Aiste: I do a lot of one-to-one sessions online, and, um, from time to time hold groups online as well.
• 20:04
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 20:04
  Tracy: So, so where do we… how would people find you if they were looking?
• 20:08
  Tracy: They can check out- I know that you've sent me some information, and I'll forward that to, to be put on social media.
• 20:12
  Tracy: But if someone's listening to this, how would they find you?
• 20:16
  Aiste: Oh, you can see it on my website, uh, soulfulancestry.com.
• 20:21
  Aiste: I think that's the best place, and-
• 20:23
  Tracy: Beautiful… Aiste: and I post it Have you got any examples that you could share?
• 20:30
  Tracy: Um, of constellations that have been, that have stuck with you, that have been memorable that you could share that wasn't going to cross anyone's privacy boundaries or confidentiality.
• 20:42
  Tracy: And maybe it was one that you've experienced yourself.
• 20:45
  Tracy: Because I know that one of the c- one of the, um, feedbacks that I get a lot from people is they love to hear the stories, 'cause then sometimes they have an aha moment.
• 20:56
  Tracy: Oh, yeah.
• 20:57
  Tracy: You know, like there'll be something in a story that allows them to recognize something for themselves, so.
• 21:03
  Tracy: So that's why I often ask people if there's anything to share.
• 21:07
  Aiste: And I guess what, what's been really present for me lately, it's also coming back to my first constellation, the one I had with, with Barbara initially.
• 21:17
  Aiste: Because it was, you know, this… It was something that I didn't know about that came- Mm … came through, that was always questioned in my family, not taken seriously, not, uh, not looked at really.
• 21:29
  Aiste: As I talk about my great-great-grandfather being a general of the Russian army, which, you know- Mm … I'm from Lithuanian.
• 21:37
  Aiste: We are very pat- patriotic, and my family especially, like, we're very much, we are Lithuanians and this, and carrying it so strongly.
• 21:47
  Aiste: But actually I do have the, the Russian or either Ukrainian bloodline as well, and it's a whole huge history which I was just completely shut down to.
• 21:57
  Aiste: And the constellation opened that up and it was a really, really, you know, needed part for me to, to reconnect and to step in and it, it's still with me.
• 22:07
  Aiste: You know, many years has passed and it's Reemerging and just learning that, like, carrying the, the victim and perpetrator dynamic within-
• 22:17
  Tracy: Yeah… Aiste: you know, and how, Beautiful.
• 22:20
  Tracy: It opens you up to so much, doesn't it, when we can… If there's a part of our ancestry that we're really struggling with, I know in New Zealand we have a lot of, um, for a lot of people, the, the whole colonizer, um, exper- you know, that, that journey.
• 22:38
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 22:39
  Tracy: And for a lot of people it's not easy.
• 22:41
  Tracy: Um, they, they really struggle with their English heritage.
• 22:46
  Tracy: Um, but I mean, in the long run, England's only one part of the colonizer story really.
• 22:54
  Tracy: But, um- Mm … yeah, the difference it can make in us when we can be able to be at peace with all that stands behind us.
• 23:02
  Tracy: Hey.
• 23:03
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 23:03
  Aiste: And what a resource it can be as well- Mm … when you step out of that, you know, good and bad.
• 23:08
  Aiste: That's the whole work of constellations for me, you know, just being able to, to step out of that and, and take fully in who, who you are.
• 23:19
  Tracy: Mm. Yeah.
• 23:20
  Tracy: How powerful.
• 23:21
  Tracy: That's beautiful.
• 23:22
  Tracy: I, it's funny because since, since we started talking and you were talking about Balkan, so, um, I have that in my ancestry as well, but that's only been a recent find.
• 23:34
  Tracy: Mm. And I'd said, I'd said to someone recently, "Why do I keep attracting these, um, little…" So how would you… Is it Eastern European?
• 23:43
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 23:44
  Aiste: Balkan?
• 23:45
  Aiste: No.
• 23:45
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 23:46
  Tracy: Would you d- would that be described as Eastern European?
• 23:49
  Aiste: No.
• 23:50
  Aiste: Like, more east, uh, east south.
• 23:55
  Aiste: South maybe.
• 23:56
  Aiste: Okay.
• 23:56
  Aiste: Just Balkan.
• 23:57
  Tracy: Okay.
• 23:57
  Tracy: I need to get my geography sorted out then, don't I?
• 24:00
  Tracy: Okay.
• 24:00
  Tracy: So I have, in my lifetime, in my later lifetime, I have, um, attracted a couple of, um, ladies from… that have been around that area of the world, much older ladies who, um, have taken a real liking to me, and I've taken a real lik- you know, like, there's been a real kinship- Mm … happening.
• 24:24
  Tracy: And I had put that out there.
• 24:26
  Tracy: Wonder, wonder why.
• 24:27
  Tracy: Wonder where that is.
• 24:28
  Tracy: And then, um, to discover that, yeah, there's the Balkan, um, heritage.
• 24:35
  Tracy: Mm. So it's like, oh, okay.
• 24:38
  Tracy: Maybe there's something in that.
• 24:40
  Tracy: Mm. Something that's calling me to kind of… Yeah.
• 24:45
  Tracy: I'd love to know more How did you learn
• 24:46
  Aiste: about it?
• 24:47
  Tracy: How did you- Uh, through DNA
• 24:48
  Aiste: Okay.
• 24:49
  Tracy: Yeah Yeah.
• 24:50
  Tracy: We, we did a DNA journey, my mom and I, uh, during that, that large time when the world closed down and everybody did not much other than being at home.
• 25:01
  Tracy: Yeah, and that… 'Cause that was where I found out, um, I found out quite a bit in, in that journey, actually.
• 25:08
  Tracy: I've always been a little bit interested in genealogy and ancestry and, yeah, it's quite an, quite an interesting adventure.
• 25:16
  Tracy: So your family is Lithuanian, Ukrainian, Russian?
• 25:22
  Aiste: I'm mainly Lithuanian, but then the surname I carry comes from, from that li- from my father, father's father, and father's father's.
• 25:31
  Aiste: And, you know, at that time, I know the territory is Ukraine, but it was part of Imperial Russia, Tsarist Russia, where that great-great-grandfather comes from, and he actually was a general in the First World War and led the Russian Army, one of two, I guess, battalions or however you call, of the Russian Army, and, uh-
• 25:49
  Tracy: Yeah
• 25:50
  Aiste: he was defeated and, uh, yeah, the troops were captured.
• 25:54
  Aiste: It was a, you know, really not a successful battle for him in the beginning of the First World War, and he committed suicide just in the woods in Poland.
• 26:03
  Tracy: Oh, wow.
• 26:04
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 26:04
  Tracy: Obviously he'd started a family beforehand.
• 26:07
  Aiste: He did.
• 26:07
  Aiste: He did, and, uh, yeah, he left his, his wife and his, I guess, one son.
• 26:13
  Aiste: I don't know that much more about that.
• 26:15
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 26:16
  Aiste: But there is a whole big piece about it because when I went to visit his, uh… There is a monument in the forest where, where he did kill himself- Oh, wow … after his troops were captured.
• 26:28
  Aiste: I think it was about 100,000 army.
• 26:31
  Aiste: Like, it was a big, uh, big movement.
• 26:34
  Aiste: And, um, when I went there, I just realized that, you know, that place is just 10 kilometers away from where the Battle of Tannenberg happened like 4- or 500 years ago.
• 26:47
  Tracy: Mm.
• 26:48
  Aiste: And that's a big one because that's when Lithuanians and Po- Poland and Lithuanian United Kingdom, they defeated, mm, how you say?
• 26:57
  Aiste: It's like the Germans, the Crusaders.
• 26:59
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 26:59
  Aiste: And now, and now here, the Germans, they defeated this army.
• 27:04
  Aiste: So it's like the later Hitler came into, into power, and he even built a huge monument there just saying, "Okay, we have won now."
• 27:14
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 27:15
  Aiste: So I mean, it carries the history of the, of the 400 years somehow.
• 27:20
  Aiste: And, um- Mm-hmm … it's been a lot going there and feeling all that and relating to that and- Was not talked about at all in my family,
• 27:29
  Tracy: like So how was that for you when you went there?
• 27:32
  Tracy: 'Cause it's kind of like you were bringing him back into the family.
• 27:35
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 27:36
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 27:37
  Aiste: Powerful.
• 27:37
  Aiste: You know, I was, uh, a lot like quite resistant to the history and learning because Lithuania carries a lot of trauma.
• 27:44
  Aiste: I mean, the last-
• 27:45
  Tracy: Mm… Aiste: 100 years and the wars, Uh, so there is a lot of pain and, and sadness, and I end up keeping myself away from that.
• 27:56
  Tracy: And I guess this- Yeah this opened me up a bit more of seeing the bigger context, going even, you know, even further away and then I guess even drawing power from there to look- Yeah… Aiste: to look at what really happened and is a beautiful country and the people are beautiful, but you can feel the pain.
• 28:17
  Tracy: Like, you can really, really feel feeling- No wonder you do land constellations and nature constellations, and it's all part of you- Mm … your, um… It's, it's innate.
• 28:28
  Tracy: It's innate for you.
• 28:29
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 28:30
  Tracy: From where you come.
• 28:31
  Tracy: It's very special.
• 28:31
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 28:32
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 28:33
  Tracy: That's so beautiful.
• 28:35
  Tracy: You work a lot with the sacred as well.
• 28:39
  Tracy: I know that, um… I just witnessed your being and how you are in the world.
• 28:45
  Tracy: How would you describe or w- or share that?
• 28:50
  Tracy: How do you bring that into the work, or as, how is it for you in your daily life?
• 28:55
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 28:56
  Aiste: I mean, I, as I mentioned in the beginning, like, I do walk this path of ceremony and, um, I guess since 2012 ceremony strongly came to me through Mayan people then, uh- Mm different elders I met on the way and just sh- who shared teachings with me.
• 29:14
  Aiste: But then later on, uh, I was adopted in this tribe in, in Canada, and they, they taught me a lot.
• 29:20
  Aiste: They really took me in.
• 29:21
  Aiste: I stayed on their reservation in Canada and kept on going back.
• 29:24
  Aiste: I stayed first half a year and then would go back and continue deepening in, into the teachings.
• 29:31
  Aiste: And, um, it's mainly about, you know, having good relations.
• 29:36
  Aiste: It's simple.
• 29:37
  Aiste: It's not that… Mm. I mean, you learn about your place in cosmos as well, and I love what Francis Weller… I don't know if you know Francis Weller, the, who does the grief work.
• 29:48
  Aiste: He's amazing elder as well.
• 29:49
  Aiste: He talks about the loss of original identity.
• 29:53
  Aiste: So as we come from the mystery, we land in the body, which is like our home.
• 29:57
  Aiste: But then-
• 29:58
  Tracy: Mm-hmm… Aiste: now we are kind of Then we land in a family that's could be, like, supportive and welcoming, but of course not a lot of- relations get broken in there, then we land in a living community which also gives us our, you know, like gives us our medicine, gives us our belonging, and also gives us our responsibilities in the sacred, in the cosmos, through the clan system or through the some ways like seeing yourself in a bigger picture.
• 30:29
  Tracy: So I didn't have all of that and, uh, and the people in Canada, they, they showed me lots of, lots of the way to connect to, to that bigger picture, finding my place.
• 30:43
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 30:43
  Tracy: So yeah, uh I do make my offerings wherever I go.
• 30:49
  Tracy: I acknowledge the land.
• 30:50
  Tracy: I, I walk with tobacco or, you know, some grain or something, just put that offering.
• 30:55
  Tracy: I often leave the food for the ancestors.
• 30:58
  Tracy: Mm. Whenever I eat, I try to, you know, leave a bite honoring, honoring the ancestors, just building those relations.
• 31:06
  Tracy: I love, you know, swans as well, so I do feed them too, and, and name them and invite them in the space.
• 31:14
  Tracy: In the work, I usually start with a prayer.
• 31:17
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 31:18
  Aiste: Acknowledging the land, the, the essence there, acknowledging the elements.
• 31:22
  Aiste: I do bring elements on my altar a lot, all four elements, water, fire, air, and- Mm.
• 31:29
  Aiste: And I invite people to call in whatever, you know, they relate to i- it as sacred.
• 31:34
  Aiste: You know, it can be just trust or love, which is also big and helpful for, for holding the space.
• 31:41
  Aiste: But some people, you know, they don't talk about it, but they have relations with, with some animals, with, uh-
• 31:48
  Tracy: Yeah… Aiste: angels.
• 31:50
  Tracy: So I always just wanna make space for that.
• 31:53
  Tracy: And sometimes it's
• 31:54
  Aiste: really surprising, isn't it?
• 31:55
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 31:55
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 31:55
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 31:56
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 31:56
  Aiste: It's good to make space for it.
• 31:59
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 32:00
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 32:00
  Tracy: Mm. That's beautiful.
• 32:01
  Tracy: How did you, um… how did you find… How did you meet this tribe that, uh, adopted you?
• 32:07
  Aiste: I started the first with the sun dance and moon dance ceremonies in, uh, in Mexico.
• 32:12
  Aiste: Mm. Yeah.
• 32:13
  Aiste: I started with Vipassana meditation, like, long time ago, you know, 25 years ago, and then I met people from s- from ceremony, and I just wanted to, yeah, to learn, to, to see.
• 32:25
  Aiste: Um, and in one of the sun dances, I was, uh, smudging there, and, uh, for a few years, and, uh, the elders from Canada came.
• 32:35
  Aiste: My teacher now, Bear Hands Extended to the People, he came because he was in the area.
• 32:41
  Aiste: He was invited, and he had a free day, so he came to share with the elders there.
• 32:46
  Aiste: And because I was smudging, uh, they needed someone to smudge the circle of the elders.
• 32:51
  Aiste: Happened to be there and make that connection, then, then I was invited.
• 32:55
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 32:55
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 32:56
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 32:57
  Tracy: What does it mean, just for anyone to understand, when you say, um, being adopted?
• 33:02
  Tracy: Like, what does that mean for you?
• 33:06
  Tracy: How does that land?
• 33:08
  Aiste: You know, I didn't, I didn't know it as well.
• 33:10
  Aiste: I was just there in one of the sweat lodges, and, uh, I… it just came.
• 33:16
  Aiste: Like, uh, my teacher now, he said, "Just I adopt you as my sister, as my little sister."
• 33:21
  Tracy: Oh, wow.
• 33:23
  Aiste: I was like, "Okay," just the tears rolling, the, the cheeks.
• 33:26
  Aiste: You don't, you don't know what it means, but it means a lot.
• 33:29
  Tracy: Mm.
• 33:30
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 33:30
  Aiste: ' Tracy: Cause it's that, it's It's- Yeah.
• 33:35
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 33:36
  Aiste: I guess there comes a certain responsibility with that too, that I'm just- Mm-hmm still learning.
• 33:41
  Aiste: But I truly feel for, for the people, for the First Nation people in, in, in Canada and US, um, and, and all around the world.
• 33:49
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 33:49
  Aiste: Like, I really respect, you know, what they kept through all the difficulty and, uh, and, and that they're open to share with, with us.
• 33:59
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 34:00
  Tracy: And, and when, uh, feeling into what you shared about Lithuania and that pain.
• 34:07
  Tracy: And it, and I think it's, it's everywhere, isn't it?
• 34:10
  Tracy: But in some- Mm … degrees it's closer to the surface than others.
• 34:14
  Tracy: It's been a lot further back, or some, for some it's a lot, uh, more recent.
• 34:19
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 34:20
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 34:21
  Aiste: And it's also finding that way to, you know, to connect with our ancestors, not only on that pain layer.
• 34:28
  Aiste: Going a bit deeper and-
• 34:30
  Tracy: Yeah
• 34:30
  Aiste: allowing those… Yeah, also the healing to flow through those ancestral lines as well.
• 34:35
  Aiste: It's there.
• 34:35
  Aiste: There are wise ancestors in our lines.
• 34:37
  Aiste: Like, there are, there are teachings that we, we can pick up as well.
• 34:43
  Tracy: Mm. Yeah.
• 34:44
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 34:45
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 34:46
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 34:47
  Aiste: Mm. Thank you, Tracy, for exploring that with me.
• 34:51
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 34:52
  Tracy: No, it's, it's, uh… I had a similar experience 20-odd years ago with, um, with a, with a group that I was involved in here in Aotearoa, in New Zealand.
• 35:04
  Tracy: And at that time, I mean, I'd always felt that, the connection to, to Maori, and, you know, having grown up in a very small village where, um, we were all just, you know, we were all just mates.
• 35:18
  Tracy: Everyone was… And I was one of the… We call them pa- It's called Pakeha, which means, which is non-Maori family.
• 35:26
  Tracy: And, um, but I've always felt like I had Maori in me, and so it wasn't until, again, did the DNA to discover that, yes, there was.
• 35:35
  Tracy: Going back to having that experience by being adopted in a way, by being taken in and, um, supported and guided, yeah, by, by people who had a, a much stronger connection to their knowing of who they are and where they come from, and yeah.
• 35:57
  Tracy: And, and in a way it was reminding myself, it was rem- reminding my DNA, "This is part of you as well." And I think as you were sharing that it was like, yeah, they were just… What you were learning was, was, was a reminder for, you know, we all come from a people of the fire.
• 36:13
  Tracy: We- all of our ancestors at some point would have done a lot, uh, their traditional teachings, their traditional ways, their… Again, comes back to the sound.
• 36:21
  Tracy: It comes back to the being in nature- Mm-hmm … and, yeah, the, it all weaves together.
• 36:27
  Tracy: It's so good.
• 36:28
  Tracy: So good.
• 36:29
  Aiste: Like, w- when I did my first fasting ceremony with this, with this tradition, Bear came to me in the end and he said, "My ancestors know your ancestors."
• 36:38
  Tracy: Wow.
• 36:40
  Aiste: And, you know, from that place like, how come?
• 36:41
  Aiste: Like, I'm so different.
• 36:43
  Aiste: I'm so far away, and- And then still, you know, I knew it's true.
• 36:47
  Tracy: Mm. Well, remember the millions though, right?
• 36:50
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 36:51
  Aiste: I mean,
• 36:51
  Tracy: 20 generations back, there's over a million in that one line, and the world was a bit smaller place then, like as in population to now.
• 37:01
  Tracy: Mm. And then you go back another… I haven't e- I haven't even calculated beyond that.
• 37:06
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 37:06
  Tracy: And often when I'm drumming and I'm talking and I say to people, "You know, there's two that stand behind you, your mother and your father. Then behind them there's four, and then there's eight, and da, da, da," I'm going through the 16, 32.
• 37:19
  Tracy: Seven generations, there's 128 in that line.
• 37:22
  Tracy: Mm. 20 generations, there's over a million people in that one line.
• 37:26
  Tracy: So yeah, to think absolutely, there's absolutely- Mm … it makes sense.
• 37:32
  Aiste: And what comes to me now, I know when you say that, just I remember now like- Meeting some people or some clients who say, "No, no, actually my ancestors don't matter.
• 37:43
  Aiste: I, I don't wanna look there.
• 37:44
  Aiste: No, no, let's do something else." I… How, how does it not matter?
• 37:48
  Aiste: It's, it's so much, right?
• 37:51
  Aiste: That's a real gift of- It's where we come from … of this work.
• 37:54
  Aiste: And again, Francis Weller says, like, the ancestors became the outcasts in our culture somehow.
• 38:03
  Tracy: Mm.
• 38:03
  Aiste: We do not talk about them.
• 38:04
  Aiste: We barely remember them.
• 38:07
  Aiste: Well, they're such an important part of who we are.
• 38:11
  Aiste: And they are- Yeah … with us still.
• 38:14
  Tracy: Like your… Was he a general?
• 38:17
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 38:17
  Tracy: Was your gr- and yeah, y- like your grandfather, great-grandfather that was a general.
• 38:22
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 38:23
  Tracy: It's that remembering.
• 38:25
  Tracy: What was that song?
• 38:26
  Tracy: Who, who sings that song that says, "We die twice"?
• 38:30
  Tracy: And it's, um, first when you, when you leave this, when you leave the body, and second is when they stops mentioning your name.
• 38:38
  Tracy: Not that we know the name of all of our ancestors, but it feels like th- those ones who are, who are excluded often, they're finding their way, they're finding their descendant that's gonna remember them.
• 38:50
  Tracy: So that's beautiful.
• 38:51
  Aiste: And just those loyalties we have.
• 38:53
  Aiste: We constantly see in constellations how we go hold certain loyalties to, to the ancestors.
• 38:59
  Aiste: And it's, it's from love too.
• 39:01
  Aiste: Mm. We know they belong.
• 39:03
  Aiste: In our soul we know they belong, so we, you know, we carry like, I don't know, from this ancestor I can say, like, I cannot be big because I'm gonna end really bad, you know?
• 39:14
  Aiste: Like… Or I cannot be a leader because it's gonna end up like that.
• 39:19
  Aiste: I mean, I do, do or did have those, um, beliefs in me as well.
• 39:24
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:25
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 39:26
  Tracy: And so did you do some- Working with him … work around that with him?
• 39:29
  Tracy: With him?
• 39:29
  Tracy: I
• 39:29
  Aiste: did, I did.
• 39:30
  Aiste: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:31
  Tracy: Wow.
• 39:32
  Tracy: Well, that's a pr- I mean, that's a, that's a, not big boots to fill, but it's a big role that he had in the, in history that didn't work out f- in the good for him.
• 39:45
  Aiste: Mm.
• 39:46
  Tracy: And yeah, that unconscious loyalty of who am I to stand up in the world and be seen, be big- Yeah like you say.
• 39:54
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:54
  Tracy: Wow.
• 39:55
  Aiste: What if I make a wrong decision?
• 39:57
  Aiste: Like…
• 39:57
  Tracy: Mm.
• 39:58
  Aiste: Oh, that's a big one.
• 40:00
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 40:01
  Aiste: Mm.
• 40:01
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 40:02
  Tracy: Can you talk a little bit about that for the au- for the audience just so that they can understand what you're meaning?
• 40:08
  Aiste: I mean, just relating to that s- story of my great-great-grandfather, right?
• 40:13
  Aiste: Like, leading this big group of people into war and then ending up surrounded.
• 40:20
  Aiste: Many people died, many people were captured, families were broken.
• 40:24
  Aiste: It's a huge, big- To, to hold, to carry, and, you know, it possibly came from his… I don't know if it's only his decision, but part of it is like, okay, some- somebody had to make a decision.
• 40:37
  Aiste: It's possibly the people who lead, right?
• 40:39
  Aiste: And it's like, wow, so if you lead, you can really make a wrong decision and lots of, lots of lives might be ruined in a way.
• 40:48
  Aiste: I don't know, like lots of pain can come out of that.
• 40:51
  Aiste: Mm. So it's dangerous.
• 40:52
  Aiste: Mm. Yeah.
• 40:54
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 40:55
  Aiste: That's one part of it.
• 40:56
  Aiste: I feel like it's complex.
• 40:59
  Aiste: Mm-hmm.
• 40:59
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 40:59
  Tracy: It's amazing, isn't it?
• 41:00
  Tracy: The things, like you say, the loyalties that we hold onto.
• 41:04
  Tracy: So yeah.
• 41:06
  Tracy: And when we're able to look at that and, and, you know, honor his role in the family of that was his fate and history wouldn't be history.
• 41:15
  Tracy: We wouldn't be, we wouldn't be doing what we're doing if that had been any different, eh?
• 41:21
  Aiste: But I can also see, you know, the brokenness of that line- Mm… because eventually he took his life.
• 41:27
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 41:27
  Aiste: And he didn't come back to his family wh- who were, you know, waiting for him.
• 41:32
  Aiste: They came back to, to, to find his body and to bring it back to the land, which I feel is beautiful.
• 41:39
  Aiste: Um- Okay.
• 41:40
  Tracy: Back to Lithuania?
• 41:41
  Aiste: Uh, no, no.
• 41:42
  Aiste: It was… Well, nowadays- Oh, Russia … Ukraine.
• 41:44
  Aiste: Sorry.
• 41:44
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 41:45
  Aiste: Yeah, Ukraine.
• 41:45
  Aiste: Well-
• 41:46
  Tracy: Yeah… Aiste: Imperial Russia at that time, um, which is all mixed again, right?
• 41:54
  Tracy: Um, and then his son somehow came to Lithuania, so I don't know why.
• 41:59
  Tracy: And he had my grandfather, but then he disappeared, so that man is also missing.
• 42:04
  Tracy: Mm.
• 42:05
  Aiste: And then my grandfather, he had two kids, but he separated for, with my grandmother, and then kind of the kids grew up without a father, and then I grew up without a father too.
• 42:16
  Tracy: Wow.
• 42:17
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 42:18
  Aiste: So there is that brokenness, right, that just, uh, repeats.
• 42:21
  Aiste: Mm.
• 42:22
  Tracy: Oh, thanks for sharing that.
• 42:24
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 42:25
  Aiste: Yeah, I love constellations.
• 42:27
  Aiste: I mean, it helped me so much.
• 42:28
  Aiste: That's why I'm so passionate about it, and, uh, the stories I witness also when facilitating.
• 42:35
  Aiste: It's just… It's so powerful.
• 42:38
  Aiste: It's so needed, and- Mm … just wish it expands and- … more and more people can come.
• 42:45
  Tracy: Where do you see… Where would you see yourself in five years' time in the constellation field?
• 42:50
  Tracy: Do you have, uh, an idea, or yeah.
• 42:55
  Tracy: I'll just leave what, lead with that question first.
• 42:57
  Aiste: I don't know.
• 42:58
  Aiste: Would be nice maybe to, to write a book one day.
• 43:01
  Aiste: I would love that.
• 43:02
  Tracy: I was gonna ask you that.
• 43:04
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 43:05
  Aiste: I start- … taking some notes, you know, now after constellations.
• 43:08
  Aiste: I'm just, like, so blown away of the things that- Mm reveal themselves.
• 43:13
  Aiste: Each time I'm there, I'm learning.
• 43:16
  Aiste: You know, we are, as facilitators, we don't know.
• 43:19
  Aiste: Like, we don't know what's gonna happen next.
• 43:21
  Aiste: It's that listening to the field and all the things that come and how, you know, how it moves.
• 43:27
  Aiste: It's so expansive.
• 43:29
  Aiste: Like-
• 43:29
  Tracy: Mm… Aiste: I say it's expanding It, that's what it does, so.
• 43:34
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 43:35
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 43:36
  Aiste: And it opens the heart.
• 43:37
  Aiste: Some stories are really hard to, to hear, you know, to, to witness.
• 43:41
  Aiste: Like, there is sometimes a lot of, a lot of torture or-
• 43:46
  Tracy: Yeah… Aiste: I mean, some stories making space for that too and, uh, allowing it into, into the heart.
• 43:55
  Tracy: That humanity, you know, is, is like that.
• 43:58
  Tracy: It's not closing your eyes to- What's there, or our hearts as well Yeah.
• 44:05
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 44:06
  Tracy: Yeah, human beings can be cr- very cruel to each other.
• 44:10
  Tracy: And there's… find the love in, in the, in… There's still love.
• 44:15
  Tracy: Find the love.
• 44:16
  Tracy: That's part of the healing, isn't it?
• 44:18
  Tracy: The love and acceptance.
• 44:19
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 44:20
  Aiste: And the part that we do not car- need to carry it alone.
• 44:23
  Aiste: Like, some things are so big that it's, it's really hard to carry it alone.
• 44:29
  Aiste: Like- Mm … that's why this work, that's why it's so good.
• 44:33
  Aiste: There is place for all of it.
• 44:35
  Aiste: There is place.
• 44:36
  Aiste: The field is strong.
• 44:36
  Aiste: The field can hold it.
• 44:39
  Aiste: Mm. The group can hold it.
• 44:41
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 44:41
  Aiste: It's a real invitation for people to come, you know?
• 44:44
  Aiste: Don't do it alone.
• 44:45
  Aiste: It's so hard.
• 44:47
  Tracy: Do you… When you go to Canada, do you, um, do a constellation work up there with your, um-
• 44:52
  Aiste: I never done it on a reservation yet.
• 44:53
  Aiste: I've done it on the band office, so just working with some people who work in, in the… I mean, some people from the reservation.
• 45:02
  Aiste: But I do work more just offer it and see who comes.
• 45:05
  Aiste: Mm. So it's more actually European, um, how you say?
• 45:09
  Aiste: European…
• 45:11
  Tracy: Descendants
• 45:11
  Aiste: People… Descendants.
• 45:12
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 45:13
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 45:13
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 45:14
  Aiste: More, more of them come, or mixed, uh, mixed race.
• 45:17
  Aiste: I think for the people from First Nation people, it still need to build more, more trust and, uh- To come into those spaces and possibly for me to stay longer if I wanted to offer that.
• 45:27
  Aiste: I did offer it to Mayan people in Guatemala because I was invited to a really rural, rural, rural area.
• 45:38
  Aiste: Very traditional Mayan people, and it was, yeah, very beautiful as well.
• 45:43
  Aiste: Um, but in Canada it was really- And then they
• 45:45
  Tracy: would have got it, they would have understood it, right?
• 45:47
  Tracy: With their history and their, their, um, way of life, yeah?
• 45:51
  Aiste: Yeah, I mean, there are different things.
• 45:53
  Aiste: Uh, like some maybe emotional education is not as, as we have it, right?
• 45:59
  Aiste: Some people as, like May- I would… I notice that emotions are very locked in, you know?
• 46:05
  Aiste: It's, it's quite hard to feel or to show.
• 46:09
  Aiste: But stepping into the field is very easy because they know it, because they're still functioning in that, um-
• 46:15
  Tracy: Yeah
• 46:16
  Aiste: in that realm, I guess.
• 46:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 46:19
  Aiste: Less mind.
• 46:20
  Tracy: Do you think that the, uh, you just shared the, the emotions are hard for them to access, or is it that it's hard for them to access when foreigners are, are around maybe?
• 46:33
  Tracy: Or is it just- Um- … something that you observe, have observed?
• 46:36
  Tracy: 'Cause I know you've spent quite a bit of time with the Mayan, uh, community in different p- parts.
• 46:41
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 46:43
  Aiste: Um, it might be, definitely it might be that I'm a foreigner.
• 46:46
  Aiste: It's truly different and, uh, some people even ask me, like, would I train them to do this work?
• 46:51
  Aiste: And I feel that would be much more beneficial if they, if they did it.
• 46:56
  Aiste: Um, but the other thing, yeah, um, I feel like the women are suppressed a lot in- Mm in that culture, um, in the household and, uh, not sure if they can feel safe expressing their, their emotions.
• 47:12
  Aiste: That's just my impression, right?
• 47:13
  Aiste: I haven't done that much work.
• 47:15
  Aiste: But yeah.
• 47:16
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 47:16
  Aiste: Something that I did.
• 47:17
  Tracy: I think that's something that we see in many different cultures around the world, too.
• 47:22
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 47:23
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 47:26
  Tracy: I've observed that, and, 'cause we do a little, we do a bit of looking into each other's eyes, 'cause that's part of- Mm … seeing the other person is representing something for you, so you're looking at them.
• 47:38
  Tracy: And it's not that you're looking at them, but the, you're looking … Well, it's, it's a c- catch-22, isn't it?
• 47:46
  Tracy: You're looking at them, but you're not looking … Yeah, but you're not looking at them.
• 47:52
  Tracy: Because you're looking at them 'cause they're holding an energy for you.
• 47:56
  Tracy: They might be representing a, a grandmother or, um- Yeah … an energy of love or something like that.
• 48:04
  Tracy: So you're looking at them for that, but you're not looking at them like I'm not looking at you and having that connection there.
• 48:11
  Tracy: I'm looking at you 'cause you're representing love for me.
• 48:14
  Tracy: You all right?
• 48:14
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 48:14
  Tracy: The energy of unconditional love.
• 48:16
  Tracy: So for some people, that's a, a … Just looking at someone, looking into their eyes is just like something that they've never done.
• 48:24
  Tracy: Mm. I worked with a man from, um, where was he from?
• 48:29
  Tracy: Sierra Leone, and, and he couldn't look.
• 48:32
  Tracy: He couldn't look in the eyes because it wasn't culturally, it wasn't acceptable thing to do.
• 48:37
  Tracy: You n- you didn't look people in their eye.
• 48:39
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 48:39
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 48:40
  Aiste: It's true.
• 48:41
  Aiste: Like, in some culture it's a sign of respect, too.
• 48:43
  Aiste: Like, uh- Mm … not to go too straight into the soul of somebody.
• 48:48
  Tracy: Mm. Yeah.
• 48:50
  Tracy: So we're walking a fine line.
• 48:51
  Tracy: Walking a fine line, but finding the balance in it as well, in the work.
• 48:55
  Tracy: Especially when we're doing work in, in other countries and other cultures that aren't- Yeah … aren't familiar to us completely as we are with our country of origin, I suppose.
• 49:05
  Aiste: You know, when you asked about Canada, I just remembered one of the, one of the circles I did there and, uh, 'cause we started with, like, acknowledg- standing in the circle and then acknowledging our ancestors and all the places they came from.
• 49:19
  Aiste: And I was just like so surprised that there was- You know, like so much Europe in the room.
• 49:26
  Aiste: I was like, I felt so far away from, from my homeland and from Europe being there, and then all these, like Netherlands, Belgium, England, Scotland.
• 49:35
  Aiste: It was all in the room.
• 49:37
  Aiste: And, uh- Mm … when the constellation was happening, I think one of the, the last ones, suddenly someone started singing, and then all of them joined in some song that, that they would sing when the boats were coming, and all the room knew the song.
• 49:54
  Aiste: Oh, wow.
• 49:54
  Aiste: I was just witnessing.
• 49:55
  Aiste: I was almost, like, crying myself just seeing it happening.
• 49:59
  Aiste: And my strongest takeaway from that was that the ancestors in Europe are… I mean, part of it it's they're angry that people didn't come back.
• 50:09
  Aiste: Part of it it's they're sad and-
• 50:11
  Tracy: Mm… Aiste: missing them.
• 50:13
  Tracy: Mm.
• 50:14
  Aiste: Just wanting to be seen, to rem- to be remembered, and that really touched me.
• 50:19
  Tracy: I love watching those Who Do You Think You Are programs.
• 50:22
  Tracy: There's… And, you know, um, long lost family and programs like that.
• 50:28
  Tracy: When, um, a few years ago when I was still in the, um, in the cycles of bleeding and stuff, I would always save up on the television those programs for that time of the month when I could- Mm just sit and watch these programs and cry and cry and cry and cry.
• 50:45
  Tracy: Yeah, you know, my mum was the first generation of her, in her mother's line to be here in Aotearoa, and her mother had come out as a wee child with the family.
• 50:58
  Tracy: And, and the… and she never went back to her homeland to visit at all.
• 51:02
  Tracy: Oh.
• 51:03
  Tracy: And so I think there's a part of, m- you know, that searching for the ancestry and… But I just love watching them.
• 51:10
  Tracy: I've actually been watching them today online.
• 51:12
  Tracy: I think I watched Susan Sarandon and Rob Lowe and a few of the, um, few names from America, a few of the actors and stuff like that.
• 51:20
  Tracy: And just the fascinating stories, you know, of people that go off on a voyage and then never come home, and th- you've got all those that are left behind wondering what ever happened to that person and, and, you know.
• 51:33
  Tracy: I'm sure that we've all got ancestors that have done that at some point.
• 51:37
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 51:37
  Aiste: Did you go back?
• 51:38
  Aiste: Oh.
• 51:39
  Aiste: Do you have a chance to, to visit?
• 51:42
  Tracy: I haven't been to where my, um, mum's family are from, but my mum did.
• 51:47
  Tracy: She went back, and I always remember her saying, "I feel like I did that for my mum." Because- Mm … she was the only one of the children that did go back.
• 51:55
  Tracy: Her brother and sister never traveled out of the country at all.
• 51:58
  Tracy: Um, but she went back to there.
• 52:01
  Tracy: And- My nana was one of eight children, but only f- th- there was only three that s- And, uh, the family left England because all the children were dying, so they left to come to New Zealand to, to start a better life and, and, uh, you know, hoping that it was safer and easier for the children.
• 52:22
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 52:23
  Tracy: And obviously it was 'cause we've s- they've all survived, so.
• 52:26
  Aiste: And
• 52:27
  Tracy: thrived.
• 52:27
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 52:28
  Tracy: Thrived here in the country.
• 52:29
  Tracy: Yeah, the ancestors that leave and didn't, and, and then the family doesn't know.
• 52:33
  Tracy: I talked about that recently with someone else online about in Ireland there was a l- a lot of, um… And probably throughout different parts of Europe as well, but particularly in Ireland, like people would just be taken off the streets.
• 52:46
  Tracy: They might have gone to get some flour to make, to make, go home and make some bread, and they'd taken, and they were y- taken as slaves.
• 52:55
  Tracy: And the Irish woman particularly were taken for breeding purposes.
• 53:00
  Tracy: Um, you know, so yeah.
• 53:03
  Tracy: The m- many families out there looking The unknown.
• 53:10
  Tracy: Gosh, that little thread went off on a different, totally different tangent, didn't it?
• 53:13
  Tracy: I love it.
• 53:14
  Tracy: I love… That's why it's called Constellations and All That.
• 53:16
  Tracy: We just go, follow that thread.
• 53:17
  Tracy: Where's it taking us to?
• 53:18
  Tracy: Where's that rememberings going?
• 53:21
  Tracy: Ah.
• 53:21
  Tracy: It's so good to talk to you.
• 53:23
  Tracy: Good to see your face and, uh, share some time with you again.
• 53:27
  Aiste: It's lovely, Tracey.
• 53:28
  Aiste: Thank you for having me- Mm … for inviting.
• 53:32
  Tracy: You're welcome.
• 53:33
  Tracy: What time is it in Switzerland right now?
• 53:36
  Aiste: Mm, 10.
• 53:37
  Aiste: 10 in the morning.
• 53:38
  Tracy: 10 in the morning.
• 53:39
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 53:40
  So it's… And it's 8: 00 at night.
• 53:41
  So it's… And it's 8: Uh, yeah.
• 53:43
  So it's… And it's 8: Well, thank you so much for, uh, coming along, sharing your wisdom.
• 53:47
  So it's… And it's 8: And, um, yeah, if anyone's interested in working with, um, Aistė, just reach out to her on her website.
• 53:56
  So it's… And it's 8: We'll put the links into the thread.
• 53:58
  So it's… And it's 8: And, uh, yeah, she's a nomad who can work all around the world.
• 54:04
  So it's… And it's 8: Digital nomad.
• 54:05
  Aiste: Yeah.
• 54:06
  Aiste: I mean, come visit in Lithuania, or come visit Glastonbury in UK.
• 54:10
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 54:10
  Tracy: You're
• 54:10
  Aiste: welcome.
• 54:11
  Tracy: That sounds exciting.
• 54:12
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 54:13
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 54:14
  Tracy: And, and maybe, um, I have a… Yeah, when you have some workshops and stuff like that, share, share the links with me and I'll pop them on… I've got a couple of pages, pop them on there.
• 54:24
  Tracy: There's some bigger international pages as well that I can put them on.
• 54:29
  Aiste: Um- Thanks, Tracey.
• 54:30
  Aiste: Lovely.
• 54:30
  Tracy: You're welcome.
• 54:31
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 54:32
  Tracy: Lovely to- Thanks for sharing your, sharing your time with me.
• 54:35
  Aiste: Thank you.
• 54:36
  Tracy: Thank you for listening.
• 54:38
  Tracy: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 54:43
  Tracy: You'll find me at tracey.cartwright.
• 54:46
  Tracy: That's Tracey with no E .cartwright.
• 54:49
  Tracy: And th- or head over to my website, traceycartwright.co.nz, and receive a free audio with a gift from your ancestors.
• 54:59
  Tracy: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it