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He was in the CIA for 27 Years | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

0:30
Speaker 1: My name is Jim.
0:31
Speaker 2: This is germ warfare, the Battle of ideas. Ray McGovern,
0:36
Speaker 2: thank you for joining me in the trenches.
0:40
Speaker 1: Glad to be with you in the trenches.
0:43
Speaker 2: I use the trenches metaphor obviously because I'm referring to
0:48
Speaker 2: the information war. But there is definitely an information and
0:52
Speaker 2: real war going on.
0:55
Speaker 1: There is, indeed, and there's the kind of censorship that
1:00
Speaker 1: I used to associate with the Stalin regime when I
1:04
Speaker 1: was just a little boy, and yes I was alive
1:06
Speaker 1: during Stalin.
1:11
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure if I should respond.
1:15
Speaker 1: Let me let me make it easy for you. A
1:17
Speaker 1: good friend of mine, Dan Kovalik, was detained by your
1:24
Speaker 1: counter terrorism police in Liverpool just a few days ago.
1:30
Speaker 1: I had the airport, ironically named John Lennon Airport treated
1:38
Speaker 1: like a criminal, all of his electronics confiscated for a while,
1:44
Speaker 1: DNA taken from his body. Do you know if he's
1:49
Speaker 1: if he's a freeman, or isn't some some London prison.
1:53
Speaker 1: I have no idea, you know, Okay, Well, I just
1:55
Speaker 1: wanted to say that I'm aware of that. And when
1:59
Speaker 1: I talk about the kind of censorship or the kind
2:02
Speaker 1: of repression that I've never seen before, except maybe when
2:07
Speaker 1: I was a little boy in the Stalin. All Right,
2:11
Speaker 1: I feel that I have to sort of protect you. Sure,
2:15
Speaker 1: will you get in trouble if I say that I
2:17
Speaker 1: don't like Israel.
2:18
Speaker 2: No or no, no, please, by all means say whatever
2:22
Speaker 2: you want to say.
2:23
Speaker 1: Ukrainian War was not unprovoked, flat fat things like that
2:29
Speaker 1: that I could get detained at the Liverpool airport for.
2:33
Speaker 1: Is there okay on this program?
2:35
Speaker 2: Yes, you can speak freely, Okay, So you won't get
2:37
Speaker 2: in trouble for this. No, let's just quickly go through
2:40
Speaker 2: your background. You've got an extensive history. You were almost
2:44
Speaker 2: thirty years in the CIA, if that's correct.
2:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had at thirty years in the CIA and
2:50
Speaker 1: thirty years since trying to keep my former analysts honest,
2:56
Speaker 1: which has been a major task in my day. Early on,
3:01
Speaker 1: when the Soviet Union was a real threat, I was
3:06
Speaker 1: able to tell it like it is, tell it like
3:08
Speaker 1: it was. It was very heavy duty. Since then, things
3:13
Speaker 1: have pretty much fallen apart, not only on the operations
3:16
Speaker 1: side of the agency, but on the substance if on
3:19
Speaker 1: the analysis side. And I guess when you spend almost
3:24
Speaker 1: thirty years at a place that you love and where
3:27
Speaker 1: you were able to do constructive work without hindrance. Really,
3:32
Speaker 1: I was working in the Soviet Union, not on Latin America,
3:36
Speaker 1: where there were lots of hindrances. It's really sad. So
3:39
Speaker 1: when I started what they call now activist career, it
3:45
Speaker 1: was when I saw my former analyst colleagues prostituting or
3:53
Speaker 1: analyst trade so that Dick Cheney and George Bush could
3:58
Speaker 1: have their war, an Iraq war totally unjustified, a war
4:03
Speaker 1: that was primarily sponsored or urged upon them by Zionists
4:11
Speaker 1: and co followers in Washington, which became very clear to
4:17
Speaker 1: me as the years went by, and which is very
4:21
Speaker 1: clear to me now of course with respect to Iran
4:25
Speaker 1: a new war. Why well, the head of the counter
4:30
Speaker 1: terrorism unit in our intelligence establishments said it quite simply,
4:36
Speaker 1: there was no imminent threat. This was all because of
4:40
Speaker 1: pressure from Israel and it's Israel supporters in Washington. End quote.
4:46
Speaker 1: His name is Joe Joe Kent, Clark, Joe Kent, and
4:53
Speaker 1: he was the head of the counter terrorists. So yeah, Kenny,
4:56
Speaker 1: he knows he was a man of principle, and there
4:58
Speaker 1: are all too few p people who quit on principle.
5:03
Speaker 2: You served under seven US presidents, if I'm correct.
5:08
Speaker 1: That's right, starting with John Kennedy.
5:12
Speaker 2: Now speaking of Kennedy, he wasn't very pro Israel, was he.
5:18
Speaker 1: Well, that got him into real trouble. No, he didn't
5:21
Speaker 1: think Israel should get a nuclear weapon. He knew that
5:26
Speaker 1: people within the place where I worked, the CIA, were
5:30
Speaker 1: very happy to help steal the technology and give the
5:35
Speaker 1: Israelis the capability of making a nuclear weapon. James Jesus Angleton,
5:41
Speaker 1: first and foremost, who was pretty much very influential on
5:47
Speaker 1: Israel's behalf within the top reaches of the CIA. So
5:51
Speaker 1: that was one, let's say, tragic flaw if you look
5:55
Speaker 1: at it that way, being honest about the relative merits
6:00
Speaker 1: Israel having a nuclear weapon. Well, so he was honest.
6:03
Speaker 1: He tried to prevent it, and I do believe that
6:06
Speaker 1: that was part of the There was one factor in
6:10
Speaker 1: why he no longer is with us. There were the
6:13
Speaker 1: factors as well, but they all came together at an
6:17
Speaker 1: unhappy juncture. In November nineteen sixty three, just five months
6:22
Speaker 1: or so after I joined the CIA, largely because John
6:27
Speaker 1: Kennedy asked a whole bunch of us getting out of
6:30
Speaker 1: college and out of the Army. You know, I asked
6:33
Speaker 1: ourselves what we could do for our country. I mean
6:36
Speaker 1: that sounds corny, Now why should that sound corny? It
6:40
Speaker 1: wasn't corny. There was a new age coming in and
6:43
Speaker 1: he killed them.
6:45
Speaker 2: Now he wasn't a fan of your organization, the CIA.
6:50
Speaker 2: Am I allowed to ask you if the CIA was involved?
6:54
Speaker 1: Of course they were involved. I mean there's a Oh,
6:57
Speaker 1: it's a book behind me. If I just this book,
7:00
Speaker 1: all you need to do is read this book, JFK
7:07
Speaker 1: and The Unspeakable. It's by an author who has no
7:11
Speaker 1: access to grind. He's in possession of all the former books.
7:16
Speaker 1: His name is James Douglas. He puts it all together.
7:19
Speaker 1: And it was the CIA, and it was the generals
7:24
Speaker 1: that wanted to get at the at the Soviet Union.
7:27
Speaker 1: And I mean, after all, when Kennedy had this golden
7:31
Speaker 1: chance in the idea of Curtis le May, the Air
7:35
Speaker 1: Force General Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, this
7:39
Speaker 1: cold an opportunity to obliterate the Soviet Union and China
7:45
Speaker 1: in the in the process. I mean, William Kennedy blew it,
7:49
Speaker 1: sugared out. He didn't do it. He didn't have made Cuba.
7:53
Speaker 1: He didn't, So, I mean, yeah, that sounds strange, right,
7:57
Speaker 1: didn't sound strange to these guys. So there was a cabal. Yeah,
8:01
Speaker 1: I had personal experience in this. My first boss, okay,
8:06
Speaker 1: I came on in April nineteen sixty three, so April
8:12
Speaker 1: Kennedy was killed in November nineteen sixty three. My first boss, well,
8:16
Speaker 1: not my first, my third boss up. I was just
8:20
Speaker 1: a junior analyst, right, with a fellow named Fred Janny. Now,
8:25
Speaker 1: his son has written a book about Fred Janney's participation
8:31
Speaker 1: in covering up the CIA's role in the assassination of
8:36
Speaker 1: his of John Kennedy, like his father, right, I mean,
8:41
Speaker 1: he's writing this book about his father.
8:43
Speaker 2: And what he is.
8:44
Speaker 1: A young man overheard on the telephone as they really
8:48
Speaker 1: worried about the unraveling of the information that would have
8:52
Speaker 1: proved that they were responsible for the killing. Now, he
8:56
Speaker 1: came to me. I was working in Inner City, Washington
8:59
Speaker 1: at the time, twenty five years ago, and he says that, Look,
9:03
Speaker 1: he says, did you know my dad, Fred Janny. I said,
9:07
Speaker 1: I worked for him. He said, well, let me tell
9:10
Speaker 1: you the story, and of course he documents it in
9:12
Speaker 1: his book called Mary's mosaic and there I say memos
9:19
Speaker 1: written in the old IBM diverter that we used to use,
9:23
Speaker 1: showing that Fred Janny was sharing a group to make
9:26
Speaker 1: sure that this follow in Texas wasn't allowed to testify,
9:31
Speaker 1: and you get him off for no time and it
9:33
Speaker 1: was just a corrupt and through it. I never had,
9:37
Speaker 1: you know, I never really liked Fred Janny very much,
9:40
Speaker 1: so that sort of morose tesciturn guide and mile much.
9:45
Speaker 1: And now I'm guessing as an analyst, they had a
9:48
Speaker 1: whole lot of his conscience. He and the others that
9:53
Speaker 1: structured this thing in cooperation with the Troy chiefs and
9:56
Speaker 1: parts of the Secret Service. And Jed Hoover knew about
10:01
Speaker 1: it as well. So this is pretty I mean, how
10:03
Speaker 1: they kept it all secret for so long. Well, for
10:06
Speaker 1: one thing we know, and this is relevant to our discussion.
10:08
Speaker 1: Let me go on for a second. JFK told these
10:15
Speaker 1: guys Alan Dulles, the head of the CIA, and all
10:18
Speaker 1: those operative guys now the operations people, not the analysts.
10:23
Speaker 1: It's kind of a bifurcated agency. There are two agencies really,
10:28
Speaker 1: the CIA Operations and what used to be CIA Intelligence.
10:31
Speaker 1: So what happened dullest and all the operatives persuaded Eisenhower,
10:35
Speaker 1: and then when John Kennedy came in, persuaded him, Look,
10:39
Speaker 1: we got it. Maybe we trained all these emigrants that
10:41
Speaker 1: are going to land on the beach, and we might
10:43
Speaker 1: need we might need a little support from from US
10:46
Speaker 1: Armed forces. And Kennys time out, Time out. What you say, Well,
10:51
Speaker 1: we might you know, we might need You're not going
10:53
Speaker 1: to get it. This doesn't really smell real good to me.
10:57
Speaker 1: But if I Senhower approved it, you go ahead, but
11:00
Speaker 1: don't expect any support from US forces. I'm not going
11:04
Speaker 1: to give it to you. Well, they went ahead anyway, right,
11:07
Speaker 1: And the big story was that Fidel Castro, as soon
11:12
Speaker 1: as these guys lean landed on the beach, he would
11:15
Speaker 1: he would be he would be deep deep platform, so
11:20
Speaker 1: he would they're being uprising here, we be moved, and
11:23
Speaker 1: all those communists, those communists from Cuba would be out
11:26
Speaker 1: of there. Were we we'd have Cuba back for the
11:29
Speaker 1: Batista type folks. Okay, well guess what they got. They
11:33
Speaker 1: get caught on the beach there, and Castro came down
11:37
Speaker 1: with his own high powered machine gun forgets no popular
11:41
Speaker 1: insurrection point of the story is this.
11:45
Speaker 3: Uh.
11:46
Speaker 1: Kennedy was very upset. He said, I told these guys
11:50
Speaker 1: not to expect US support. They asked for it, and
11:53
Speaker 1: I told them, Look, don't you remember what I said,
11:55
Speaker 1: no US support. What happened to Castro? Oh? Well, he
11:59
Speaker 1: was a very very popular figure, and he persisted. So
12:04
Speaker 1: he asks Arthur Selessinger Junior, a very noted historian at
12:10
Speaker 1: the time. He said, Arthur, would you take two months
12:13
Speaker 1: out and go through all the sensitive correspondence and the
12:17
Speaker 1: equivalent of emails and so forth and find out how
12:21
Speaker 1: the CI get this so wrong that Feto Castro would fall?
12:25
Speaker 1: And guess what he reported two months later, mister present,
12:29
Speaker 1: I could hardly believe it. It was only the people
12:33
Speaker 1: who were devising and implementing this ka kamimi plan that
12:40
Speaker 1: told you that would fall. The Anvelsis division was number
12:48
Speaker 1: one never told about these plans, and number two still
12:53
Speaker 1: less was it asked for its appreciation of what the
12:56
Speaker 1: likelihood would be the JFK would fall. So you got
12:58
Speaker 1: a real problem. You got a real problem, mister president.
13:02
Speaker 1: You got two agencies and these guys. Now I checked
13:05
Speaker 1: with the analysts and they said, well, yeah, we would
13:08
Speaker 1: have told Ray Kline was the Deputy Director for Intelligence.
13:12
Speaker 1: I worked for him. Later, I said, so he said, no,
13:14
Speaker 1: I didn't tell us anything but what we would have
13:16
Speaker 1: told missus strange, this is crazy. Where did you get
13:19
Speaker 1: the idea? The cues were full of crazy. So that's
13:22
Speaker 1: when John Kennedy said, I want to split the agency
13:27
Speaker 1: into a thousand pieces and spread it to the scatter
13:31
Speaker 1: it to the winds. Yeah, he didn't like them, they
13:35
Speaker 1: didn't like him. But Alan Dulles, whose brother was Secretary
13:41
Speaker 1: of State, was so much a part of the establishment
13:45
Speaker 1: that what happened, well, Kennedy couldn't fire him until a
13:49
Speaker 1: decent interval, maybe four or five months later. Then he
13:53
Speaker 1: fired him. And then eventually, after the assassination, Allan Dalles
13:59
Speaker 1: just up the way into know what was his job? Oh,
14:04
Speaker 1: he was made chief of the nine to eleven commission.
14:11
Speaker 1: Really not that not that was not nine to eleven,
14:15
Speaker 1: but the Kennedy assassination.
14:18
Speaker 2: You mean the Warren commission.
14:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, good, So, yeah, he was on the commission. He
14:24
Speaker 1: ran or he orchestrated all the testimony and everything else. So,
14:29
Speaker 1: you know, lastly, I'll just say this, Uh, when we
14:36
Speaker 1: observed that it was really strange that a guy who
14:40
Speaker 1: hated Kennedy, who had legitimate, legitimate grievance. In his mind,
14:45
Speaker 1: grievance is against Kennedy, who was fired by Kennedy, would
14:48
Speaker 1: end up directing the Warren Commission proceedings to find out
14:52
Speaker 1: who killed Kennedy. We said, this sounds fishy to us,
14:57
Speaker 1: this sounds really strange. And what you guess what we
15:01
Speaker 1: were called germ conspiracy theorists. All right, that's where it
15:08
Speaker 1: really got its pizzazz, this conspiracy theorists. So you know,
15:14
Speaker 1: sometimes there are real conspiracies. You know, if you uncover them,
15:18
Speaker 1: well they call you a conspiracy theorist in hopes that
15:22
Speaker 1: you'll go away. We're not going away with a lot
15:24
Speaker 1: of good people working on all this. And this was
15:27
Speaker 1: a crucible in American history where they killed the president
15:33
Speaker 1: who was willing to reach out to so called enemies
15:36
Speaker 1: like the Soviet Union, had a modicum of trust and rushoff,
15:42
Speaker 1: which was a mutual sort of thing and which I
15:45
Speaker 1: could assure you was a lost opportunity and we would
15:50
Speaker 1: not be where we are today if Kennedy had lived
15:54
Speaker 1: in firm.
15:55
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, going from Kennedy to Trump, who wants
15:58
Speaker 2: to turn Gaza into to a holiday resort.
16:06
Speaker 1: I've told my wife I don't want to talk about Trump,
16:08
Speaker 1: but I'll make an exception here.
16:12
Speaker 2: Well, he isn't US president.
16:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, as I also say that my wife frequently. It's
16:19
Speaker 1: not my fault. It's not my fault. Okay, now, yeah,
16:24
Speaker 1: he's I know what the adjectives is. I think from
16:29
Speaker 1: the Russian point of view, he's unpredictable. Okay, that is
16:33
Speaker 1: dangerous with a capital D. That, my friend, is why
16:40
Speaker 1: it was incredible for me to believe or knew something
16:44
Speaker 1: about the Soviet Union in Russia. Incredible to believe that
16:51
Speaker 1: the Russians would prefer an unpredictable mercurial person like Trump
17:02
Speaker 1: to a known quantity like Hillary Clinton just didn't make
17:08
Speaker 1: any sense at all. Okay, I mean, Hillary Clinton is
17:11
Speaker 1: no favorite of the Russia, but it was very clear
17:14
Speaker 1: that they would prefer her, and some of the information
17:17
Speaker 1: coming out shows that they would. Who would have preferred
17:20
Speaker 1: her than somebody? What's worse for a fellow like Poochin
17:24
Speaker 1: to have an unpredictable mercurial person on the the other
17:30
Speaker 1: side of the ocean with his hands on the nuclear codes.
17:35
Speaker 1: Nothing is worse than that. So what I'm saying here
17:38
Speaker 1: is that. This is why Pooching, in his perspicaciousness, is
17:45
Speaker 1: treating Trump with kid gloves, as we say, doesn't want
17:50
Speaker 1: to alienate him. See some possibility that Trump could make
17:54
Speaker 1: good on his claims that he wants a better relationship
17:57
Speaker 1: with Russia, and so Pouching is doing a gradual thing
18:01
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. He's winning. He doesn't want to provoke NATO
18:05
Speaker 1: retaliation for God's sake, NATO as such as it is
18:09
Speaker 1: these days. So the big thing about Trump is these
18:13
Speaker 1: unpredictable the Russians are willing to talk to. My God,
18:17
Speaker 1: they're even willing to talk to these two I call
18:20
Speaker 1: him Mutt, Mutt and Jeff. I don't know if you
18:22
Speaker 1: have that comment there very big Mutt or Mutt and
18:25
Speaker 1: Jeff Witkoff and Kushner. I mean, are they going to
18:31
Speaker 1: talk to them again? After all the duplicity I mean
18:35
Speaker 1: with the Iranians, I mean they talk to them and
18:37
Speaker 1: they kill the negotiators, I mean hello twice. So so
18:44
Speaker 1: Kushner and Witkoff are only received by Puccin because they're
18:52
Speaker 1: representatives of the president. Now, of what kind of president
18:59
Speaker 1: of a president that changes his mind from six in
19:02
Speaker 1: the morning eight in the morning and ten at night
19:06
Speaker 1: and so forth. So this is the key, and it's
19:09
Speaker 1: a damn lucky thing. We have somebody so cautious, somebody
19:14
Speaker 1: who knows about war. And Bouchin was born right after
19:19
Speaker 1: World War Two. His big brother was starved at death
19:22
Speaker 1: in the Lenigrad, the blockade of Lenigrad, and his mother
19:30
Speaker 1: was left for dead on a pile of bodies that
19:33
Speaker 1: his father, when he came home, saw she was still breathing.
19:36
Speaker 1: So so a little Ladimir Vladimedovich was was born later.
19:41
Speaker 1: But you can't imagine. I mean, he says to his parents,
19:45
Speaker 1: didn't talk much about it. Well, that's that's very familiar.
19:50
Speaker 1: But you know, that's the experience he comes out of.
19:53
Speaker 1: And so he knows a little bit about war here,
19:54
Speaker 1: and he knows conversely that people like will take JD there.
20:01
Speaker 1: I'm a millennial, you know, you know, what the what
20:08
Speaker 1: the hell does a millennium burial know about war is zero? Okay,
20:16
Speaker 1: And that's one reason, in my view, why Poucine is
20:20
Speaker 1: so cautious and so so careful not to provoke the
20:25
Speaker 1: worst in people as unpredictable as Trump.
20:30
Speaker 2: You mentioned Clinton, but weren't you arrested at a Clinton event.
20:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. I always arrested a number of times for speaking
20:39
Speaker 1: in a non violent way. Yeah, and this one it
20:42
Speaker 1: was Hillary Clinton, even the year before she did Libya.
20:47
Speaker 1: I mean, she was Secretary of State, and long story short,
20:52
Speaker 1: I found out she was going to be speaking it.
20:56
Speaker 1: It was George Washington University, and I had a friend
20:59
Speaker 1: who was on the fact there, can you get me
21:01
Speaker 1: a ticket? He asked me why, and I breathed a
21:06
Speaker 1: sigh of relief. So I got a ticket and I
21:08
Speaker 1: was there and when she came in. You won't believe this,
21:10
Speaker 1: but she was greeted with like two minutes of standing applause.
21:17
Speaker 1: And it was reminded me of when Moushoff for Briershniff
21:22
Speaker 1: would make a speech and then Pravda. There were both
21:27
Speaker 1: sides of the first two pages were full of the speech, right,
21:31
Speaker 1: and after every five paragraph there would be this little
21:36
Speaker 1: insert in bold italics, bored in the appolodsment, just stay
21:42
Speaker 1: on stormy bor my stormy applause everyone stands. So I said,
21:50
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is a flashback. So that when
21:54
Speaker 1: they finally stopped, I took off my shirt. I had
21:57
Speaker 1: Veterans for Peace on my T shirt and I turned
22:00
Speaker 1: it back to her and for that not saying a word,
22:05
Speaker 1: and for that I was allowed to do that for
22:07
Speaker 1: about three or four minutes, and then the police descended
22:10
Speaker 1: upon me, brutally attacked me, removed me from the auditorium,
22:16
Speaker 1: put me in jail. The sad thing was, no one protested,
22:21
Speaker 1: No one says what's going on? He does say anything?
22:24
Speaker 1: No one, okay? And what was she talking about the
22:29
Speaker 1: imperative to have more respect for human rights in Iran? Okay?
22:38
Speaker 1: So anyhow, I got out of jail that time before
22:42
Speaker 1: I had to spend the night. On other occasions where
22:44
Speaker 1: I peacefully protested, I was not so lucky.
22:48
Speaker 2: She was quite a fan of getting rid of Goduffy.
22:53
Speaker 1: She was, oh, yeah, well, you know, after he was
22:56
Speaker 1: brutally rapes when they found them in a sewer and
23:04
Speaker 1: these were irregular forces, you know, supported by the US.
23:10
Speaker 1: The next day she was doing an interview. And people
23:14
Speaker 1: need to see this too to get some sense of
23:18
Speaker 1: the woman. The interviewers are so happy what happened with
23:25
Speaker 1: the cataphi yesterday? And she hillary famously said, yes, we came,
23:34
Speaker 1: he saw he's dead. Now we came, we saw, Yeah,
23:39
Speaker 1: he's the equivalents of yeah, he's dead. I mean, and
23:45
Speaker 1: she had so you know that was that was part
23:50
Speaker 1: and parcel of our foreign policy under Obama as well
23:55
Speaker 1: as Biden and as well as Trump. We had a
23:58
Speaker 1: big shots. We could do what we want. And when
24:01
Speaker 1: an upstart like Kadaffi lets himself be hoodwinked out of
24:06
Speaker 1: pursuing his nuclear weapons and then you know starts starts
24:13
Speaker 1: causing trouble for US in Africa and has a lot
24:17
Speaker 1: of money, well this is what she did to such people.
24:21
Speaker 1: We did that the Mussa dec in Iran and nineteen
24:24
Speaker 1: fifty three with great help from British I six. So
24:29
Speaker 1: that's us. That's what we do. That's us. You're gonna
24:32
Speaker 1: do something about it? Huh? Is that what you're gonna do?
24:35
Speaker 1: Forget about it? That's that kind of what's the word
24:41
Speaker 1: mafia type outlook on these.
24:43
Speaker 2: Things you're talking about Putin and his relationship with Trump,
24:48
Speaker 2: what do you think she's in Ping thinks of Trump?
24:54
Speaker 1: I think Cheshiing Ping is just this clever as his
25:00
Speaker 1: the fellow he called his best friend one time, and
25:03
Speaker 1: that's Vladimir Putinchi willing Putin his best friend. This is
25:10
Speaker 1: about eight years ago. If memory serves okay, now, I
25:14
Speaker 1: mean it's the same look that you and I give
25:18
Speaker 1: to President Trump. Mercurial, unpredictable. How do you handle a
25:26
Speaker 1: guy like this who has his fingers on the nuclear codes.
25:30
Speaker 1: You'd be very very nice to him. If he wants
25:33
Speaker 1: to come to Beijing, you let him come, You meet him,
25:37
Speaker 1: and you treat him in a decent way, which is
25:40
Speaker 1: part of Chinese and Russian diplomacy. When best friend putin comes, well,
25:48
Speaker 1: they don't embarrass the world by giving him so extreme
25:54
Speaker 1: laudatory reception that it stands out, but to give them
25:59
Speaker 1: all the best friend attributes and and you put your
26:04
Speaker 1: finger on it because you know, in my purview, which
26:08
Speaker 1: goes back six decades, my first portfolio was watching Soviet
26:16
Speaker 1: foreign policy towards China, what was then the International Communist Movement, Korea,
26:23
Speaker 1: Southeast Asia. In those days, China and Russia were loggerheads.
26:29
Speaker 1: China was claiming one point five thousand kilometers square kilometers
26:38
Speaker 1: in Russian Siberia. Yeah, every denta, right, I mean, what
26:45
Speaker 1: do they say, Well, they said, you guys seized this
26:48
Speaker 1: land and made us obey these things by concluding unequal treaties.
26:54
Speaker 1: Now with any historial fact, of course, that's exactly what happened.
26:59
Speaker 1: A Cussick going out to Siberia. Aermak was his name,
27:02
Speaker 1: but Russian flag, and Siberia said, now it's ours, okay.
27:07
Speaker 1: And then the Treaty of Nerchinsk sixteen eighty nine, I
27:11
Speaker 1: think had comfortized all this. There were other unequal treaties.
27:15
Speaker 1: So the Chinese had had all this, all these grievances.
27:21
Speaker 1: They were shooting each other at each other across the
27:24
Speaker 1: Amor and Usuri rivers, and the contests for influence in
27:30
Speaker 1: the communist world was really really tough. Okay. So this
27:34
Speaker 1: is where I began. And as I watched this progress,
27:37
Speaker 1: more enlightened rulers came into being in China and Russia.
27:41
Speaker 1: And this is crazy. This is the main enemy in
27:45
Speaker 1: the US. We're just enervating our efforts here by fighting
27:51
Speaker 1: each other. Why do we get together? And that's where
27:54
Speaker 1: they are now together. They've never been so much together,
27:59
Speaker 1: and that's tonic shifts in a balance of power. Just
28:03
Speaker 1: to try to represent it graphically, we used to, that
28:08
Speaker 1: is decades ago, describe the Sino Soviet US relationship as
28:14
Speaker 1: a triangular relationship. And we used to say it was
28:18
Speaker 1: sort of trilateral, equilateral. I guess that's the word, okay,
28:23
Speaker 1: But now it's isasles okay, with Russia and China on
28:30
Speaker 1: the long ends and the US at the short end
28:34
Speaker 1: of the stick. I don't know if you could see that,
28:36
Speaker 1: but you know, hello, and nobody gets it. We tried
28:41
Speaker 1: to play off. Russia gets show. We try to get
28:43
Speaker 1: the Chinese to quote, use their influence in Russia to
28:46
Speaker 1: help the US and the West with respect to Ukraine.
28:51
Speaker 1: If they really thought that was going to happen, forget
28:54
Speaker 1: about it, you know. So anyhow, that's the big change
28:57
Speaker 1: in relationships, and of course the Third World and the
29:01
Speaker 1: rising South is part of it. The Shanghai Cooperation Agreement
29:06
Speaker 1: bricks all that stuff you have that drift towards the
29:10
Speaker 1: East in terms of power, and when Russia joins this,
29:15
Speaker 1: it's got power. China has even more potential power. But
29:19
Speaker 1: the shift in the power relationships in the world are
29:22
Speaker 1: such that the US really can't work as will as
29:26
Speaker 1: it would like to do in places like Ukraine or
29:29
Speaker 1: the Middle East. And this is painfully obvious now when
29:33
Speaker 1: Trump is tricked into full scale war against Iran by
29:39
Speaker 1: Nathan Yahu and now he has to say, you told
29:42
Speaker 1: me it's going to be easy. You told me these
29:44
Speaker 1: guys will kill them all, and then we'll kill the
29:46
Speaker 1: next and then the place will fall apart. It doesn't happen.
29:49
Speaker 1: What's going on? So now Nathan Yahoo is playing the spoiler.
29:55
Speaker 1: Trump is desperate to get those straits, to get the
29:58
Speaker 1: straight up Houmuso. You might say he's in dire straits right.
30:03
Speaker 1: One of them is Hormuz. You might also say that
30:08
Speaker 1: a lot of us feel that they should take a
30:10
Speaker 1: straight jacket and put it on this guy. But anyhow,
30:14
Speaker 1: he's not doing really well either there or in Ukraine.
30:19
Speaker 1: And if there are midterm elections in November, oh, we
30:24
Speaker 1: say McGovern if well, you know you have your anti
30:30
Speaker 1: terrorism laws. In Britain, we have ice paramilitary group funded
30:38
Speaker 1: by billions with a bee of dollars, scooping people up
30:43
Speaker 1: for protests or for saying things that are untoward, and
30:48
Speaker 1: preparing big warehouses and putting sort of a test case
30:52
Speaker 1: immigrants in there. If I end up there, I hope
30:56
Speaker 1: you'll have me have me broadcast from one of those
30:59
Speaker 1: prisons there, because this would not be the first time.
31:02
Speaker 1: This is part of American history when presidents go awry
31:08
Speaker 1: and think they're challenged by revolutionary forces. Will they end
31:13
Speaker 1: up using the National Guard as well as ice now
31:19
Speaker 1: and maybe even parts of the uniform military if Hegseith
31:23
Speaker 1: is asked to do that to make sure that we
31:27
Speaker 1: don't miss around with the November elections? Now, am I
31:33
Speaker 1: worried about that? Yeah? I am? Is it unlikely? I
31:38
Speaker 1: don't know anymore? It's really hard. I mean, you guys
31:40
Speaker 1: should detain Dan Kovalek, Professor of Law, University of Pittsburgh,
31:46
Speaker 1: Stanford A Warde. I mean, the guy has human rights
31:51
Speaker 1: and does that get you detained at Liverpool Airport? Do
31:55
Speaker 1: that get you to get your your electronics? All? See
32:00
Speaker 1: your DNA? Take you how they took as DNA? But
32:03
Speaker 1: my god, what kind of indignities are inflicted upon people
32:06
Speaker 1: who are just trying to tell the truth. I have
32:08
Speaker 1: to tell you. Dan is a friend of mine. I've
32:10
Speaker 1: lurbed one of his recent books. He's an excellent writer,
32:14
Speaker 1: and of course he's a human rights lawyer. And human
32:19
Speaker 1: rights don't seem to matter much either in Britain or
32:23
Speaker 1: the United States lately.
32:26
Speaker 2: How did Israel get so embedded in the US.
32:32
Speaker 1: Well, the mistakes were made back during Truman he was
32:36
Speaker 1: warned that this was not a good thing to do,
32:40
Speaker 1: to jump in with both feet and defending Israel. The
32:45
Speaker 1: Zionists persuaded him. Now it worked both ways. Eleanor Roosevelt,
32:55
Speaker 1: to her great credit, care deeply about what's happening to
32:59
Speaker 1: the Jews in Germany, and so when she heard that
33:07
Speaker 1: large ships over teeming with Jewish displaced persons were being
33:16
Speaker 1: denied entry to the United States. Mind you, this is
33:20
Speaker 1: right before the war, she remonstrated with Franklin's Franklin, what's
33:25
Speaker 1: going on here? You got to let those people in here?
33:28
Speaker 1: You turn them around and go back to certain death concentration.
33:32
Speaker 1: We know all about that, Franklin. Sorry, Eleanor, Sorry, what
33:39
Speaker 1: was that all about? Well, it wasn't a popular cell or,
33:44
Speaker 1: as they say these days, it wasn't a good look
33:47
Speaker 1: to let a bunch of Jews in the United States.
33:52
Speaker 1: I had to say it that way. But anti antisemitism
33:58
Speaker 1: was real. It's still real in a much lesser degree,
34:04
Speaker 1: but there was any Semitism. So here I am nine
34:07
Speaker 1: years old, right, and I hear, oh man, the Jews
34:11
Speaker 1: who was so persecuted in the war are getting their
34:14
Speaker 1: own place to live. It's a place without people for
34:21
Speaker 1: people without a place.
34:23
Speaker 2: Oh it.
34:24
Speaker 1: I lived in the Bronx in New York. There were parades,
34:27
Speaker 1: nineteen forty eight pre parades, and of course we had Exodus,
34:32
Speaker 1: the film and all this stuff, all this stuff about
34:34
Speaker 1: neglecting the fact that, oh, we've got to mention it
34:39
Speaker 1: wasn't a place without people. There were people there, and
34:43
Speaker 1: what the Jewish people did was to expel seven hundred
34:48
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand Palestinians that lived there, and half of
34:55
Speaker 1: them ended up in a place like called Guzza. And
34:59
Speaker 1: the people who are still there are the grandchildren or
35:03
Speaker 1: sometimes the children of people who were driven out of
35:07
Speaker 1: their own homes. Some of them took the keys with them,
35:13
Speaker 1: still have the keys. It's very poignant, okay. And so
35:17
Speaker 1: that wasn't explained to us that Wait a second, this
35:20
Speaker 1: was not only without people. This is a people that
35:24
Speaker 1: was expelled from there from some of them lived there
35:29
Speaker 1: for generations. So all I'm saying here is that there
35:34
Speaker 1: was and is to a degree lesser degree, anti Semitism.
35:38
Speaker 1: But that doesn't justify, well, we approved of the Zionists.
35:44
Speaker 1: Really more properly stated that Zionists wanted to do in
35:48
Speaker 1: this place where they were still trying to exterminate, and
35:53
Speaker 1: I use that word advisedly. That's what they try to do.
35:57
Speaker 1: They brag about it, for God's sake, out loud. They're
36:01
Speaker 1: chief leaders in seventy percent of the Jewish population. If
36:06
Speaker 1: you believe the polls bring about exterminating these people. And
36:11
Speaker 1: what's going on in Gaza, well, I don't know if
36:13
Speaker 1: you're allowed to use the word g begins with ge n.
36:20
Speaker 1: I don't want to get you. I know you already doing.
36:23
Speaker 1: Anybody speak for you, Can I say genocide or force starvation, assassinations?
36:32
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm Irish. My people came from Ireland. They
36:38
Speaker 1: know what forced starvation is like, all right, same people,
36:46
Speaker 1: same people. The British enable this whole thing, and of
36:50
Speaker 1: course British sold the Palestinian then still selling the Palestinians
36:55
Speaker 1: down the road. So if I feel I know it
36:59
Speaker 1: for let me since we have just a little bit
37:03
Speaker 1: of time, let me let me tell you. In the
37:05
Speaker 1: Bronx where I grew up, Bronx, New York, there was
37:08
Speaker 1: a very large Irish and a Gray population, and my
37:13
Speaker 1: grandmother my grandfather both from Ireland, Okay, and They used
37:17
Speaker 1: to have friends around and sometimes they'd sing a song,
37:21
Speaker 1: a song based on a letter from from Ireland during
37:25
Speaker 1: the Great Hunger, where the Irish was starved, whereas the
37:33
Speaker 1: food there was a ship to London and then off
37:36
Speaker 1: to the other colonies. Right, okay, so there was a
37:41
Speaker 1: letter where we're described the situation. Let me take one minute.
37:48
Speaker 1: They used to sing it around the table. Prattees, of course,
37:52
Speaker 1: are potatoes in Irish.
37:56
Speaker 3: Ah the pretty they are small over here. Over here
38:04
Speaker 3: are the preaches, they are small. O over ah, the
38:12
Speaker 3: pretchy they are smalld And we're.
38:16
Speaker 1: Coming to the hall. There's not enough for all over now.
38:29
Speaker 1: We bundled our dollars and five dollar bills and sent
38:33
Speaker 1: them to Ireland, but you couldn't buy any food in
38:37
Speaker 1: those states. Well, I was a generation behind, but it
38:41
Speaker 1: was just a matter of luck that my grandfather's parents
38:46
Speaker 1: somehow escaped the Great Hunger, and as soon as my
38:49
Speaker 1: grandparents could find their passage to America, they did, and
38:54
Speaker 1: that was in the late eighteen hundreds.
38:57
Speaker 2: I've still got goosebumps from my home, not from that
38:59
Speaker 2: little song.
39:02
Speaker 1: Well, surem, you know, we're soul as well as body,
39:08
Speaker 1: and some of these things just invite an emotional response
39:13
Speaker 1: as well as a cognitive one. Most of my stuff
39:16
Speaker 1: is cognitive, but when it comes to force starvation, I
39:21
Speaker 1: kind of lose it.
39:22
Speaker 2: The problem with Israel and the US has been going
39:26
Speaker 2: on basically since JFK will post JFK, I mean, is
39:31
Speaker 2: there any light at the end of the tunnel?
39:36
Speaker 1: Well, for the first time in recent history, I can
39:39
Speaker 1: say yes, there is maybe. Now. Now picture this, the
39:47
Speaker 1: head of Mossad, the CIA from Israel, right, does a
39:53
Speaker 1: briefing on the big screen in the situation room in
39:56
Speaker 1: the White House, and Natignell, who is the and the
40:00
Speaker 1: President is there, and his little acolytes are all there,
40:04
Speaker 1: Rubio advance and the heck sets and the rest of
40:09
Speaker 1: them okay, and the briefing is, look, we've got this thing.
40:16
Speaker 1: We can eliminate the top leadership. The people will rise up.
40:23
Speaker 1: Reminds me of what JFK was told about Cuba. Right,
40:26
Speaker 1: The people will rise up as one person and they'll
40:29
Speaker 1: overthrow these people and then there will be no threat
40:33
Speaker 1: from we run. Now, if I were the president, I
40:36
Speaker 1: would say, well, no threat, no threat to whom they're
40:40
Speaker 1: no threat to us. Oh, come on, mister President. Threat
40:44
Speaker 1: to Israel. That's what's all about. Oh, so we're supposed
40:49
Speaker 1: to start a war because there's a threat to Israel
40:54
Speaker 1: and this Ushan has no nuclear weapons. I mean if
40:59
Speaker 1: those would have been logical questions. But no, no, Trump says,
41:03
Speaker 1: this looks terrific. Thank you very much, Masade. Well you
41:07
Speaker 1: all think of this. Now, these clones, what do they do? Well?
41:14
Speaker 1: This old Uncle Remus song. You know, bur Bear was
41:19
Speaker 1: really Rabbit was really clever. He didn't say nothing right,
41:23
Speaker 1: he didn't say nothing, Okay, bur Bear or Rabbit. Well
41:27
Speaker 1: this guys didn't say nothing right. We know that. But
41:33
Speaker 1: the next day the New York Times reporters, who are
41:36
Speaker 1: writing a book about all this, interviewed all these guys,
41:40
Speaker 1: and then these guys said, well I didn't think that
41:43
Speaker 1: was a good idea. No, no, I didn't. I really
41:46
Speaker 1: think it will be the golf? How about the golf?
41:49
Speaker 2: Straight up?
41:49
Speaker 1: For Mousa. On the other so, she writes, or she
41:54
Speaker 1: and her co writer write, oh, these people were really opposed,
41:58
Speaker 1: But she never asked the question. Did just say that?
42:01
Speaker 1: Did you tell the president that? Of course they didn't.
42:05
Speaker 1: So so the prosident goes off half cocked, and you know,
42:09
Speaker 1: we know Israel started it. I mean they had full
42:13
Speaker 1: assurance we were joined. But twenty eight February was the
42:19
Speaker 1: joint attack. And three days later, on the second Rubio
42:25
Speaker 1: was asked before the and we used to see the
42:28
Speaker 1: rolling cameras before the press, So how does this happen?
42:34
Speaker 1: And he said, and this is a direct quote, ISRAELI
42:37
Speaker 1: told us that they're going to attack Iran. And we said,
42:41
Speaker 1: oh my god, the Iranians will probably attack us in
42:46
Speaker 1: retribution as well as Israel. So let's do something preemptive
42:52
Speaker 1: so that we will join the Israelis, and then we
42:56
Speaker 1: will suffer fewer losses by having joined the Israelis. From right, then, okay,
43:03
Speaker 1: so translation, Israel has made us through it, you know.
43:09
Speaker 1: And then Joe Kent, who I think I mentioned before,
43:12
Speaker 1: the top guy encounter terrorism who quit, said, look, there
43:16
Speaker 1: was no imminent threat. That's why, after due consideration, I resigned,
43:21
Speaker 1: mister President. There was no threat. It was completely due
43:24
Speaker 1: to pressure from Israel and from its supporters in Washington
43:31
Speaker 1: period end quote. I quit. Never before has anyone from
43:37
Speaker 1: that higher perch quit on principle saying number one, there
43:41
Speaker 1: was no reason for the war, and number two, the
43:43
Speaker 1: real reason was Israel. My god, Now did they shoot him?
43:48
Speaker 1: Not yet. He's still playing an active role spreading truth
43:52
Speaker 1: around about what really happened. But you don't get that
43:55
Speaker 1: very often. One thing that did happen to him, of course,
43:58
Speaker 1: is the FBI initiated, and they go an investigation of
44:03
Speaker 1: whether he whether he handles classified information poorly or out
44:10
Speaker 1: of regulations. Well, if it's classified information that Israel runs
44:16
Speaker 1: our policy on Iran, while you and I are both guilty,
44:20
Speaker 1: because that seems to be the case. So an answer
44:24
Speaker 1: to your question, this time Trump is pissed off. I mean,
44:29
Speaker 1: there's a little theater about him using the F word
44:32
Speaker 1: and conversations with the net. But he's pissed off and
44:35
Speaker 1: he has every reason to be really pissed off because
44:38
Speaker 1: he was full by the clever Massad guys. The guy's
44:41
Speaker 1: gone now, David Bernea, I think the guy to new
44:44
Speaker 1: Massad guy, and the old guy is living high in
44:47
Speaker 1: the hog. So what does this mean? Well, this means
44:50
Speaker 1: that Trump really has to face the choice of getting
44:56
Speaker 1: the straight up home was open and that will require
45:02
Speaker 1: persuading the Israeli authorities to stop what they're doing in Lebanon,
45:08
Speaker 1: or if they don't stop. He's not going to get
45:11
Speaker 1: the straight open. So there is a chance right now
45:15
Speaker 1: that the US will find it in its own interest,
45:18
Speaker 1: after having been deceived and after having pretty much lost
45:23
Speaker 1: the war, in his own interest, to lean on the
45:26
Speaker 1: Israelis and say, look, if you don't knock it off
45:30
Speaker 1: with respect to southern Lebanon and northern Israel, we know
45:36
Speaker 1: that the Uranians are going to attack, okay, and they
45:40
Speaker 1: can attack you in a way where you can't defend against.
45:43
Speaker 1: They have hypersitic missiles. You know you've disguised it, you
45:47
Speaker 1: kept it out of the press, but you know how
45:49
Speaker 1: much time is they have already done? Now. Woud Trump
45:53
Speaker 1: at this point be able to say, if you keep
45:57
Speaker 1: on doing what you're doing in Lebanon, will inevitably attack
46:02
Speaker 1: you and forget about our helping you. That's it. We're
46:06
Speaker 1: not even going to give you any more arms. Okay.
46:11
Speaker 1: Would Trump be able to do that, that's a sixty
46:13
Speaker 1: four dollars question, But the sakes are higher than ever before.
46:17
Speaker 1: Trump definitely needs the straight open, and he's not going
46:21
Speaker 1: to get the straight open unless well, here's the thing.
46:26
Speaker 1: Why is Lebanon so important? Well, because Israeli occupation of
46:32
Speaker 1: southern Lebanon, is Raeli treatment of other resistance forces. I'm
46:38
Speaker 1: thinking has Boila, but I'm thinking also the Gaza. We're
46:42
Speaker 1: talking about all around that the occupied territories. Okay, Now,
46:49
Speaker 1: under international law, resistance forces against occupation, against illegal occupation.
46:59
Speaker 1: And this is illegal application because the UN has ruled
47:03
Speaker 1: it to be such and has required under a unanimous
47:08
Speaker 1: resolution November nineteen sixty seven, that Israel withdraw its forces
47:14
Speaker 1: from the occupied territories, the ones they occupied earlier that year. Okay,
47:19
Speaker 1: Israeli hasn't done that, So there's resistance. Is that legitimate? Lawful? Yes?
47:24
Speaker 1: It is? Oh what about violence? I hate to tell you, folks,
47:29
Speaker 1: I guess that's lawful too, Okay, under international law. So
47:34
Speaker 1: now not many people pay attention to this, but the Uronians,
47:38
Speaker 1: you know, Shia Muslims, not even Arabs. For some reason,
47:45
Speaker 1: it's hard for Westerners to understand, they do care about this, Okay,
47:49
Speaker 1: my god. In the very first paragraph of that fifteen
47:54
Speaker 1: Memo of misunders not memo of understanding, okay, it was
48:00
Speaker 1: that first paragraph had two sentences and one country was
48:05
Speaker 1: mentioned three times in those two sentences. And what was
48:09
Speaker 1: that that was Lebanon, Lebanon. So I don't understand this
48:15
Speaker 1: exactly because I'm a realistic realism school of international vations.
48:20
Speaker 1: But it is factual that Iran cares deeply about what
48:26
Speaker 1: happens to its compatriots in Lebanon, Kaza, Syria, all the
48:34
Speaker 1: adjoining It cares a lot. And now it's in the
48:36
Speaker 1: catbird seat. So that's fact. Is the street going to
48:41
Speaker 1: be open unless Israel? If Israel keeps doing that, No,
48:46
Speaker 1: it's not going to be. Will there be a worldwide depression,
48:50
Speaker 1: not just a recession, Yes, it will be. What about
48:54
Speaker 1: the midterms, Well, if they're allowed to proceed in a
48:57
Speaker 1: lawful way, the Republican is going to really take it
49:01
Speaker 1: on the chin. So all the stuff is in the mix.
49:04
Speaker 1: Your question is the most relevant one. Getting back to it,
49:08
Speaker 1: Is it possible that Trump could prevail on the Israelis
49:11
Speaker 1: right now? Most people would say no. I'd say if
49:15
Speaker 1: they can. If Trump can't do it now, the American
49:18
Speaker 1: president can never get the Israelis to do what they want,
49:22
Speaker 1: unthless they cut off the arms, arms, and economic billions
49:28
Speaker 1: of dollars that they give to Israeli every year under
49:31
Speaker 1: legislation that goes back eight or nine years.
49:34
Speaker 2: Now, if you could sit in the Oval room, what
49:38
Speaker 2: would you tell the president?
49:41
Speaker 1: Well, funny, you should mention, because I briefed presidents one
49:47
Speaker 1: on one between nineteen eighty one nineteen eighty five under
49:52
Speaker 1: the first Reagan administration. If your eyes go wide, well yeah,
50:00
Speaker 1: mine did too. This was the first time in the
50:03
Speaker 1: history of the agency that we had one on one
50:06
Speaker 1: contact with the President and his senior advisors, with what
50:12
Speaker 1: we call the President's Daily brief, which we struggled over
50:17
Speaker 1: all day updated. When I committed five o'clock in the morning,
50:21
Speaker 1: the operation Center, got in my car, went down to seat.
50:25
Speaker 1: It was a matter of Schultz was the first secretary, Say,
50:30
Speaker 1: Schultz was the first one I briefed. Weinberger would be
50:33
Speaker 1: second Secretary of Defense, then the National Security Advisor. There
50:38
Speaker 1: were several under the first Reagan administration, the vice President
50:42
Speaker 1: who was Bush, the elder Bush at the time. And
50:46
Speaker 1: if the president was awake to the president now, I
50:49
Speaker 1: have to tell you that the president was very awake
50:52
Speaker 1: when we started this process in Pacific Palisades when he
50:56
Speaker 1: was the president elect. Every morning come down for breakfast.
51:00
Speaker 1: Not I in those days, but my superiors would brief
51:03
Speaker 1: personally with the president daily brief. So when they got
51:06
Speaker 1: to Washington and George W. Bush, George H. W. Bush, sorry,
51:11
Speaker 1: knew what was going on. He said, Now, mister President,
51:15
Speaker 1: I know you get the CIA briefing and daily brief
51:19
Speaker 1: six mornings a week. What would you think of letting us?
51:24
Speaker 1: I think I think I should get it too. And
51:27
Speaker 1: secretarials Weinberger, you're a national security advisor, probably the joint
51:32
Speaker 1: chiefs of staff. What do you think? Reagan says, great idea,
51:38
Speaker 1: great idea, And Bush says, well, what time would you
51:42
Speaker 1: like to be brief? Well, you know, I think probably
51:46
Speaker 1: would be best if you all got brief at that
51:50
Speaker 1: normal hour of eight o'clock, nine o'clock and then come
51:54
Speaker 1: see me about eleven thirty. Would that'd be good? And
51:56
Speaker 1: then we'll discuss it all that because I like you
51:59
Speaker 1: now that here in Washington, I like to kind of
52:02
Speaker 1: sleep in. And so long, long story short, we've seldom
52:07
Speaker 1: so the president. But we saw all these very hierarchy
52:12
Speaker 1: the highest ranking people in the national security apparatus, and
52:17
Speaker 1: you know, it was the ideal. It was the ideal
52:21
Speaker 1: situation for someone as an intelligence analyst. Okay, let me
52:28
Speaker 1: just very briefly describe what the intelligence cycle is. First,
52:32
Speaker 1: you have requirements. You want to know this is what
52:34
Speaker 1: policymakers need to know. Okay, you need to know that.
52:38
Speaker 1: Then you have collection. We collect the information, whether spies
52:42
Speaker 1: or technical means or whatever. Then you process this with
52:46
Speaker 1: the analysts, and then you disseminate it. Now, it works
52:50
Speaker 1: really well if you have good requirements. But the key,
52:54
Speaker 1: the key part of this intelligence cycle is dissemination. We
53:00
Speaker 1: never had access to the president or as chief advisors
53:03
Speaker 1: other than sending down the president's daily By now, we
53:06
Speaker 1: had people who were respected, including myself at that time,
53:10
Speaker 1: who would tell the president or his advisors what we
53:13
Speaker 1: really thought. It was terrific. Okay, and so will you
53:17
Speaker 1: talk about what? Okay, so you're getting back. Sorry, I'm
53:20
Speaker 1: i Risian and I'm extroverted. So let me get back
53:24
Speaker 1: to your question. What would I tell president President? What's
53:28
Speaker 1: his name? Trump? Uh? I'd like to start with Ukraine,
53:33
Speaker 1: if that's okay, and then I'll go on to Okay,
53:37
Speaker 1: mister Trump, Vladimir Pucin is being very kid glovish with you. Now,
53:44
Speaker 1: he's still giving you the benefit of the doubt. He
53:48
Speaker 1: thinks that you're unable, not just unwilling, but you're unable
53:53
Speaker 1: to persuade the Europeans from egging Zelenski on and giving
54:00
Speaker 1: him all kinds of weaponry, some of which we are
54:03
Speaker 1: hitting pinpricks in Russia. So we realize that you're trying
54:10
Speaker 1: to stay out of this thing. You've got the NATO
54:14
Speaker 1: summit meeting coming up on the seventh, just a couple
54:18
Speaker 1: of days from now in Ankara, Turkey. Well, what Puchin
54:26
Speaker 1: really would like you to do would be for you
54:29
Speaker 1: to say to people like the Latvians, Estonians and the
54:34
Speaker 1: Lithuanians and all other people who want to provoke Russia
54:38
Speaker 1: into some kind of a war, just tell them that,
54:42
Speaker 1: as far as you're concerned, this is the US's latest
54:47
Speaker 1: and last NATO summit. You guys have been following around
54:53
Speaker 1: too much. We'll sell you some arms because that's good
54:56
Speaker 1: for us to make money. We're going to do anything else,
54:59
Speaker 1: and we serve we aren't going to support you if
55:01
Speaker 1: you get into an armed conflict with Russia. Okay, that's
55:06
Speaker 1: that's beyond a pair. Why you would want to do
55:08
Speaker 1: that is beyond us. You're not going to win. And
55:12
Speaker 1: if one of you, let's say you Latvians. Now you
55:16
Speaker 1: have some bases there in Latvia, and my intelligence people,
55:21
Speaker 1: that is Puchin's intelligence people, has told uh told the
55:26
Speaker 1: world that the Latvians were persuaded by those very clever
55:31
Speaker 1: Ukrainians that the Ukrainians could use those bases in Latvia
55:37
Speaker 1: fire missiles and drones into deepest Russia and the Russias
55:41
Speaker 1: will never be able to figure out where they came from.
55:44
Speaker 1: Give you break, okay, says the says the Russian intelligence agency.
55:50
Speaker 1: Look you want, you want the coordinates of each of
55:52
Speaker 1: those five bases, We got them. Well, you want the
55:55
Speaker 1: coordinates of decision making centers in Rita, the capitol, we
56:00
Speaker 1: got that too. Last sentence, most important membership in NATO
56:06
Speaker 1: is no guarantee against retaliation. Now it's big okay, So,
56:13
Speaker 1: mister President here I am talking to Trump. What Putin
56:16
Speaker 1: would like you to do is make sure that these
56:20
Speaker 1: NATO are the members realize that protection is not that
56:29
Speaker 1: they will not be protected if they fire missiles or
56:33
Speaker 1: drones from Latvia or any other NATO state. Now that's
56:39
Speaker 1: what Putin would like you to do. A lot of
56:42
Speaker 1: us think that if you don't do that, this ambiguity
56:47
Speaker 1: may spill into a situation where let's say the Latvians
56:52
Speaker 1: fires some they haven't yet, but let's say they fire
56:56
Speaker 1: some missiles or drones from Latvia. Most of the intelligence
57:02
Speaker 1: community says that that Pucci will be forced to retaliate
57:09
Speaker 1: against Latvia. Latvia being a member of NATO and Latvia
57:16
Speaker 1: likely to invoke Article five of the NATO Treaty, which says, well,
57:20
Speaker 1: everybody's gets attach against one is attack against all. Okay,
57:24
Speaker 1: So you can prevent that if you make it clear
57:29
Speaker 1: that that's not going to happen. That the United States
57:32
Speaker 1: is out of the Ukraine thing to the point where
57:35
Speaker 1: they're not going to support any any any attack against
57:41
Speaker 1: a member of state if it's deliberately provoked by in
57:45
Speaker 1: this case, the lat Fields. So if you do that,
57:48
Speaker 1: that will be pretty good. And you know the last
57:52
Speaker 1: NATO summit where you came in late and they all
57:55
Speaker 1: they're not going to be so nice this time, to
57:58
Speaker 1: remember the rule to the Secretary of Chaerner, Oh, daddy's here,
58:03
Speaker 1: Daddy's what he welcome? Daddy, Well, daddy turned out to
58:06
Speaker 1: be a dead beat. I don't know if dead beat
58:09
Speaker 1: means the same, and it does. Okay, he's not going
58:12
Speaker 1: to pay child support. Daddy's not going to pay child
58:16
Speaker 1: support or alimony, okay, And he made that clear, and
58:20
Speaker 1: I thought that might be the last NATO summit. I
58:23
Speaker 1: now think the one in Uncora that begins on the
58:26
Speaker 1: seventh may now be the last NATO summit that depends
58:29
Speaker 1: on an unpredictable guy named Trump. But at least I
58:34
Speaker 1: would tell him to do that now. With respect to
58:38
Speaker 1: the Runian situation, I would say, mister Trump, we in
58:46
Speaker 1: the intelligence community know that our military has run out
58:53
Speaker 1: of the kinds of weapons that we used there against Iran,
59:00
Speaker 1: which people want to say we're very effective, but actually
59:06
Speaker 1: Iran withstood that. Iran has closed the straight as we predicted.
59:12
Speaker 1: Many others thought they would not do that. But so
59:15
Speaker 1: all we're going to say here is that, yes, the
59:18
Speaker 1: world economy is going to plunge as it never has
59:22
Speaker 1: plunged before, at least since nineteen twenty nine, unless you
59:26
Speaker 1: get the straight open. And there's the only way you
59:28
Speaker 1: can do that is to persuade the Israelies to observe
59:34
Speaker 1: the first article in the Memorandum of understanding. Otherwise, clear
59:40
Speaker 1: and simple, mister President, Iran is not going to open
59:45
Speaker 1: the straight and there's no way that you would be
59:51
Speaker 1: able to cajole them, and no way we could prevail militarily.
59:55
Speaker 1: And you can check with the general what's his name
59:58
Speaker 1: on this, you know, short of using a nuclear weapon,
1:00:02
Speaker 1: and you've said several times you don't want to do
1:00:05
Speaker 1: that makes sense to us. There's no way a military
1:00:09
Speaker 1: attack on Iran, and mister President, we don't know what
1:00:14
Speaker 1: those marine expeditionary forces are doing off you know, off
1:00:20
Speaker 1: in the sea there or the eighty second airborne. It
1:00:24
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense to us, mister President. But if
1:00:27
Speaker 1: there they land somewhere, we really, we really fear for
1:00:32
Speaker 1: their welfare. They're going to be part of the word obliterated.
1:00:36
Speaker 1: So can you just cool it? Can you can? Well,
1:00:40
Speaker 1: what we would suggest is that if Natano can be
1:00:43
Speaker 1: persuaded as play ball, you got a ball game going.
1:00:46
Speaker 1: If he can't, the Uranians seem to care very very
1:00:50
Speaker 1: strongly about Lebanon. That's not going to change. I mean,
1:00:54
Speaker 1: some things don't change. When you have sort of an
1:00:56
Speaker 1: altruistic a kind of a commitment to resistance, the axis
1:01:03
Speaker 1: or the arc of resistance happens to be very powerful here,
1:01:07
Speaker 1: mister President. We can't break it. The only way it
1:01:10
Speaker 1: can be broken is if Israel is brought to its
1:01:13
Speaker 1: good but to its census. So that's what i'd say.
1:01:17
Speaker 1: Probably I would avoid as much as I did in
1:01:20
Speaker 1: terms of proposing policy. That's what we try to avoid,
1:01:23
Speaker 1: so we don't look like we're advocating one policy over
1:01:26
Speaker 1: the other. But that's the situation that I would describe
1:01:30
Speaker 1: to President Trump at the present time.
1:01:33
Speaker 2: Time is against us.
1:01:34
Speaker 1: Ray.
1:01:35
Speaker 2: I have absolutely loved chatting to I hope to chat
1:01:38
Speaker 2: to you again soon, but for now, how can I
1:01:43
Speaker 2: follow your work?
1:01:46
Speaker 1: Well, there are a number of ways. I'm all over YouTube.
1:01:50
Speaker 1: I appear on judgm to Pelatano's show Judging Freedom on
1:01:56
Speaker 1: Mondays at ten and Fridays at four. I have my
1:01:59
Speaker 1: own website, raymcgovern dot com. I have I'm on substack,
1:02:06
Speaker 1: and my ex is simply at ray McGovern and most
1:02:11
Speaker 1: of the stuff can be seen on my website because
1:02:14
Speaker 1: when I do an X site, yes, my assistant to
1:02:19
Speaker 1: post it on those other platforms as well. So thanks
1:02:21
Speaker 1: for asking and thanks for having me, Jeremy, it was
1:02:27
Speaker 1: a pleasure talking to you.
1:02:29
Speaker 2: Stay safe if you're in Britain, thankfully I'm in Katon.
1:02:33
Speaker 2: By the way, have you been to South Africa?
1:02:39
Speaker 1: No, North Africa, I guess South Africa never, but that's
1:02:43
Speaker 1: one of my dreams before I become old.
1:02:48
Speaker 2: All Ray McGovern thank you for joining me in the trenches.
1:02:52
Speaker 1: You're most welcome via ARN