Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Living Nightmare: Son Jake on Director Rob & Michelle Reiner Murders

Transcript

Living Nightmare: Son Jake on Director Rob & Michelle Reiner Murders · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A living nightmare. That is
0:08
Speaker 1: how son Jake Reiner describes the horrific months after his parents' murder.
0:16
Speaker 1: And a Hollywood irony, Rob Reiner, his dad, gets an
0:22
Speaker 1: Emmy for FX's kitchen drama, The Bear. Reiner's award for
0:30
Speaker 1: Outstanding Guest Actor in a Comedy was announced at the
0:34
Speaker 1: Creative Arts Emmys in mentioning his posthumous after-death Emmy. Award
0:42
Speaker 1: for his performance in The Bear. I'm just thinking back
0:45
Speaker 1: on everything Rob Reiner gave to us. The Princess Bride.
0:51
Speaker 1: I've watched that with the twins 50 times. When Harry
0:53
Speaker 1: Met Sally. This is Spinal Tap. misery. There's just so
0:59
Speaker 1: many more. In fact, I remember him in All in
1:02
Speaker 1: the Family when I was in high school. We watched
1:06
Speaker 1: it every time it came on, and we'd just laugh
1:09
Speaker 1: and laugh and laugh. Remember, he was a meathead, and
1:13
Speaker 1: we feel like we know him, and I still believe
1:16
Speaker 1: to this day that actors and actresses' personalities come through
1:21
Speaker 1: in their performances. And I recall, again, I hope you're
1:27
Speaker 1: not tired of hearing it, meeting Rob Reiner. And he
1:31
Speaker 1: was so amazingly kind and actually called out my name,
1:36
Speaker 1: and I turned around and walked back to him. I
1:39
Speaker 1: don't know how in the world a famous guy like
1:42
Speaker 1: him would know a peon like myself, but he did
1:46
Speaker 1: and he was so kind. That said, his living children
1:54
Speaker 1: are in anguish and this is why. 33-year-old Nepo baby
2:00
Speaker 1: Nick Reiner formally indicted in the murders of parents Rob
2:04
Speaker 1: and Michelle Reiner with disturbing special circumstances added on. This
2:12
Speaker 1: as he tries to crack into a multimillion-dollar trust fund
2:16
Speaker 1: set up by his murdered parents. The indictment alleges aggravating circumstances.
2:25
Speaker 1: What are aggravating circumstances? They are charges in the indictment,
2:30
Speaker 1: special charges that could trigger the death penalty. Not just
2:37
Speaker 1: any murder charge triggers the death penalty. There must be
2:41
Speaker 1: aggravating or special circumstances. Here, special circumstances are multiple murders. Translation,
2:50
Speaker 1: anything more than one dead body, multiple murders. And lying
2:54
Speaker 1: in wait. lying in wait. Why is that aggravating? Because
3:00
Speaker 1: you didn't just pick up a gun and pull the trigger.
3:03
Speaker 1: You lie coldly in wait, waiting for your chance to kill,
3:08
Speaker 1: giving you time to think over what you're doing. Also,
3:13
Speaker 1: it's alleged he used a knife as a deadly weapon.
3:18
Speaker 1: Another aggravating circumstance in this bill of indictment, the crimes, quote,
3:24
Speaker 1: involved great violence, great bodily harm, threat of great bodily harm,
3:31
Speaker 1: or high degree of cruelty, viciousness, or callousness. Also, the
3:37
Speaker 1: indictment calls the victims particularly vulnerable.
3:42
Speaker 2: Why?
3:42
Speaker 1: Because they're senior citizens in their sleep, in their own bed.
3:49
Speaker 1: As I often said in court, Your Honor, may I
3:53
Speaker 1: refresh the witness's recollection. Rob Reiner and his wife were murdered.
4:02
Speaker 3: Their daughter came across the street.
4:04
Speaker 1: She lives right across the road. And then she finds
4:06
Speaker 1: their bodies. They had multiple stab wounds.
4:11
Speaker 4: I got totally spun out on uppers. I think it
4:14
Speaker 4: was Coke and something else, and I was up for
4:17
Speaker 4: days on end, and I started punching out different things
4:21
Speaker 4: in my guest house.
4:23
Speaker 1: Like a frame? Like what? No, I think.
4:26
Speaker 4: I started with the TV, and then I went over
4:28
Speaker 4: to the lamp, and then progressively, just everything in the
4:33
Speaker 4: guest house got wrecked.
4:34
Speaker 5: Our office will be filing charges against Nick Reiner. who
4:38
Speaker 5: was accused of killing his parents, actor-director Rob Reiner and
4:42
Speaker 5: photographer-producer Michelle Singer Reiner. These charges will be two counts
4:48
Speaker 5: of first-degree murder with a special circumstance of multiple murders.
4:54
Speaker 5: He also fesses a special allegation that he personally used
4:58
Speaker 5: a dangerous and deadly weapon, that being a knife.
5:02
Speaker 1: You are hearing the local district attorney, and earlier you
5:05
Speaker 1: were hearing Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner's son, Nick Reiner, describing
5:10
Speaker 1: how he totally got spun out on uppers. I think
5:14
Speaker 1: I was on coke and something else. I was up
5:17
Speaker 1: for days on end and started punching out different things
5:20
Speaker 1: in my guest house. Let me just do a quick
5:24
Speaker 1: little correction right there. Kayla Brantley joining us, a reporter
5:28
Speaker 1: at large dailymail.com. It wasn't his guest house. He was
5:34
Speaker 1: living on on the largesse of his parents, Rob and
5:38
Speaker 1: Michelle Reiner. And this wasn't the first time he totally
5:42
Speaker 1: destroyed the guest house. I mean, the entitlement of this guy.
5:47
Speaker 1: Is it true, very different from what we first learned,
5:51
Speaker 1: that Rob and Michelle Singer Reiner were found, their throats
5:56
Speaker 1: slit in their own bed? Is that true, Kayla Brantley?
6:02
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, Nancy.
6:05
Speaker 6: It was around Sunday at 3.30 p.m.
6:08
Speaker 1: When their bodies were discovered.
6:09
Speaker 6: And what we're now learning is that Rob and Michelle
6:12
Speaker 6: Reiner had been dead in their bed for some hours. So,
6:16
Speaker 6: of course, now the police are putting together a timeline
6:19
Speaker 6: of when this could have happened. We know Saturday night
6:22
Speaker 6: there was a fight with Nick and his parents at
6:25
Speaker 6: a party at Conan O'Brien's house, a Christmas party. And
6:28
Speaker 6: by Sunday at 3.30 p.m., they were found dead.
6:32
Speaker 1: Guys, in the last hours, video has emerged of the son,
6:37
Speaker 1: Nick Reiner. Now, this is after he allegedly murders both
6:41
Speaker 1: his parents in their sleep, which I'm going to circle
6:43
Speaker 1: back to Philip Dubé about. I mean, talk about stalking
6:47
Speaker 1: and predating upon someone, attacking your parents in the dark,
6:51
Speaker 1: in their sleep, when they can't fight back. After that,
6:56
Speaker 1: and after he checks into a local hotel and cleans up,
7:00
Speaker 1: he's spotted here. Let's take a look at Nick Reiner.
7:04
Speaker 1: This is the latest happening now. There he is. Wow.
7:08
Speaker 1: He packed clean clothes. He has on a matching outfit.
7:11
Speaker 1: Check it out. He's got on shoes without blood, new
7:16
Speaker 1: pants without blood. He's got a backpack, a jacket against
7:21
Speaker 1: the cold, a hat. Let's keep watching this because I
7:24
Speaker 1: see him walk in fully aware of what's happening, going
7:28
Speaker 1: straight to the drink area. He gets a drink. Then
7:31
Speaker 1: he goes and stands in line. Yeah, looks totally sane,
7:38
Speaker 1: doesn't he? This is from CBS News, by the way.
7:41
Speaker 1: Philip Dubé joining us, a high-profile lawyer out of L.A. County,
7:46
Speaker 1: former public defender there. It's going to really be hard
7:50
Speaker 1: for his new high-profile lawyer, Alan Jackson, who represented Karen Reed,
7:56
Speaker 1: to argue mental defect issues. Because he looks completely sane
8:00
Speaker 1: right there. He knew to pack. Could you take him down, please?
8:04
Speaker 1: He knew to pack new clothes, fresh clothes. What happened
8:08
Speaker 1: to the murder weapon? Has it been hidden? Did he
8:11
Speaker 1: know enough to hide or discard the murder weapon so
8:14
Speaker 1: it will never be found? What knife was that? What
8:18
Speaker 1: utensil did he use to stab his parents and slit
8:22
Speaker 1: their throats? He knows how to go into a gas station.
8:26
Speaker 1: He goes straight to what he wants. He gets it,
8:29
Speaker 1: closes the fridge behind him, comes up to the line
8:32
Speaker 1: and stands there patiently waiting to pay, pays for his food,
8:36
Speaker 1: his drink. Wow, he looks just like you, Dube, going
8:40
Speaker 1: into a gas station. You don't look crazy to me.
8:43
Speaker 7: If you kill during the throes of psychosis or if
8:48
Speaker 7: you kill while under the influence of some type of meth,
8:52
Speaker 7: induced situation like a form of meth-induced psychosis, it cannot
8:57
Speaker 7: form the basis of a legal defense. The jury can
9:00
Speaker 7: factor it in in deciding whether or not he had
9:02
Speaker 7: the intent to kill, but you're not going to walk
9:04
Speaker 7: away from it. And I think what the evidence will
9:07
Speaker 7: probably show is that at some point, he was going
9:10
Speaker 7: through some type of a drug-induced euphoria, likely from methamphetamine
9:16
Speaker 7: And that it dissipated and he went to what we
9:18
Speaker 7: call that meth or cocaine crash. And that's why you're
9:22
Speaker 7: seeing him so calm afterwards.
9:25
Speaker 1: Uh-huh.
9:26
Speaker 8: Uh-huh.
9:26
Speaker 1: Did you interview Nick Reiner and learn all this? Or
9:33
Speaker 1: are you just guessing? You're just projecting. He was on meth.
9:37
Speaker 1: He was on coke. Now he's in a euphoric downer
9:40
Speaker 1: and he was in psychosis at the time he murdered
9:42
Speaker 1: his parents. You're just kind of extrapolating. Is that right?
9:46
Speaker 7: I am telling you, he is a statistic. He is
9:49
Speaker 7: the mirror image of that homeless, drug-addicted population out there
9:53
Speaker 7: that goes through that meth or cocai. It dissipates, and
9:57
Speaker 7: then they crash. And during that crash... stage they are
10:00
Speaker 7: cool you're.
10:01
Speaker 1: Saying the same thing again or am I caught in
10:04
Speaker 1: a demonic echo chamber are you making this all up
10:08
Speaker 1: did anybody tell you this are you co-counsel with a
10:12
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer and you know this by some interview
10:15
Speaker 1: with a defendant or are you just spinning it out.
10:18
Speaker 7: No, I'm not saying that. I am enriching you as
10:21
Speaker 7: to what the likelihood is. That's really what's happening.
10:24
Speaker 1: Okay, so where did you get your information, if you
10:27
Speaker 1: could reveal that?
10:30
Speaker 7: I'll tell you what tipped me off that that's what happened.
10:34
Speaker 7: When he was arrested, they booked him into the Twin
10:38
Speaker 7: Towers Correctional Facility rather than the Men's County Jail. And
10:43
Speaker 7: that is the largest psych hospital in the United States
10:45
Speaker 7: within a jail system. It tells me that at the
10:48
Speaker 7: point of arrest.
10:49
Speaker 3: Just stop.
10:50
Speaker 1: You must cut his mic. Because for Pete's sake, Paris
10:53
Speaker 1: Hilton was booked in the Twin Towers. That means nothing
10:56
Speaker 1: to me. The fact that he's in the Twin Towers.
10:58
Speaker 1: You are spinning out like Rumpelstiltskin. You're taking mangy looking
11:04
Speaker 1: wet hay and you're turning it into gold. But guess what?
11:08
Speaker 1: That doesn't work. with a veteran trial lawyer. That would
11:12
Speaker 1: be me. The lie stopped right here. You know nothing
11:16
Speaker 1: about his mental state. You know nothing about whether he
11:18
Speaker 1: was on speed, whether he's on meth, whether he's on coke,
11:22
Speaker 1: much less a euphoric downer after. Bottom line, you know what?
11:28
Speaker 1: Why am I asking a JD like myself? Mental health questions.
11:33
Speaker 1: When I've got Dr. Bethany Marshall with me, renowned psychoanalyst
11:36
Speaker 1: joining us out of this jurisdiction along with Dubé, author
11:39
Speaker 1: of Deal Breakers. You can see her on Peacock now
11:44
Speaker 1: and find her at drbethanymarshall.com.
11:46
Speaker 2: Dr.
11:46
Speaker 1: Bethany, Philip Dubé is talking about statistics and all trial
11:51
Speaker 1: lawyers know if they've ever tried a case and they're
11:53
Speaker 1: not just a talking head, that statistics are overwhelmingly disallowed
11:59
Speaker 1: as evidence at court. So that's not happening. Now, it
12:06
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if Reiner, as in the son, Nick Reiner,
12:11
Speaker 1: had been on meth. It doesn't matter if he was
12:13
Speaker 1: on coke. It doesn't matter what he's on. Voluntary use
12:17
Speaker 1: of drugs or alcohol, not a defense. Bethany, I would
12:22
Speaker 1: like you to look at your screen. We're going to
12:23
Speaker 1: look at this gas station video again. A lot of
12:26
Speaker 1: you may be wondering, why is this important? Because Alan
12:30
Speaker 1: Jackson has swooped in, the Karen Reid lawyer. This is
12:33
Speaker 1: from CBS News, by the way. And I already see,
12:38
Speaker 1: as Dubé said, rightfully, that they're going to try a
12:41
Speaker 1: mental defense argument. Okay. But look at this guy. This
12:46
Speaker 1: is a couple of hours after he allegedly said, slits
12:49
Speaker 1: the throats of both of his parents. You know why?
12:52
Speaker 1: Because he just couldn't take living in that multimillionaire home,
12:57
Speaker 1: that lifestyle he was given on a silver platter on
13:01
Speaker 1: top of a Christmas tree.
13:03
Speaker 9: You know, Nancy, I see somebody walking casually around a
13:08
Speaker 9: mini mart, getting a drink. He doesn't show signs of
13:12
Speaker 9: drug abuse here. He's not pacing. He's not agitated. He
13:16
Speaker 9: looks quite calm to me. So instead of putting this
13:19
Speaker 9: in the drug addiction category where somebody's on meth and
13:22
Speaker 9: there's overkill, which I speculated to yesterday, what I'm going
13:26
Speaker 9: to say now is that often with domestic homicide, when
13:31
Speaker 9: somebody successfully kills a family member, there's an extraordinary relief
13:37
Speaker 9: phase afterwards. So they will be quite calm. They will
13:41
Speaker 9: go shopping. I mean, like Casey Anthony.
13:43
Speaker 1: Danced on the stripper pole yesterday.
13:45
Speaker 9: They will go out and enjoy their lives. Now, in
13:49
Speaker 9: terms of drug abuse, I've been looking at all the
13:51
Speaker 9: interviews last night, Nancy, and one of the things I
13:54
Speaker 9: noticed about this guy, Rob Reiner's son, is he does
13:58
Speaker 9: a lot of what we call tongue thrusting, pushing his
14:02
Speaker 9: tongue out as he's talking, which means that he has
14:04
Speaker 9: tardive dyskinesia, which is a sign of antipsychotic medication, meaning
14:11
Speaker 9: This guy was in the lap of luxury of psychiatric care.
14:15
Speaker 9: He had the best psychiatrists, the best hospitalizations, everything available
14:22
Speaker 9: to him. I see this as much more psychological than
14:26
Speaker 9: something that is related to drug addiction.
14:28
Speaker 1: I want to go to Rob Schuder joining us, star
14:32
Speaker 1: of Naughty But Nice podcast, author of a brand new book.
14:35
Speaker 1: It started with a whisper, which is a big hit
14:38
Speaker 1: on Amazon now. You can find them at robshuter.substack.com. Publicist
14:45
Speaker 1: to the stars. You know, Rob Shuter, I'm going to
14:47
Speaker 1: put you under the microscope right now and do a
14:52
Speaker 1: lightning round. Isn't it true you know Nick Reiner? Isn't
14:56
Speaker 1: that true?
14:57
Speaker 3: I've met Nick Reiner, yes.
14:59
Speaker 1: So then, simple answer, yes. And you have actually sat
15:04
Speaker 1: down and had a meal with him, yes, no?
15:06
Speaker 6: No.
15:07
Speaker 3: Coffee with him and maybe a croissant.
15:12
Speaker 1: That's not a yes, no, but whatever. When you were
15:16
Speaker 1: with him, did he seem psychotic or just a spoiled brat?
15:22
Speaker 3: A spoiled brat. He felt entitled.
15:24
Speaker 8: He turned up late for a meeting that he arranged.
15:29
Speaker 3: I didn't arrange it. So he wanted to meet with
15:31
Speaker 3: me in LA and he turned up late. Kind of late.
15:34
Speaker 8: Late enough that You notice, not five, 10 minutes late, late.
15:38
Speaker 8: That bothered me. When he turned up, he was rude
15:40
Speaker 8: to the staff, which is always a tell when you
15:43
Speaker 8: turn up and you're rude to people. I remember at
15:46
Speaker 8: one point they got his order wrong and he blew
15:48
Speaker 8: off the handle really shockingly, shockingly quick and then came
15:53
Speaker 8: back down and sat and talked.
15:56
Speaker 3: He was arrogant. He was entitled.
15:58
Speaker 8: And he sort of had this sense of himself that
16:00
Speaker 8: was way bigger than the reality.
16:03
Speaker 3: He believed.
16:04
Speaker 8: that he was a major player in Hollywood, the same
16:08
Speaker 8: way that he believed he trashed his guest house.
16:11
Speaker 3: No, you are not.
16:12
Speaker 8: A major player in Hollywood. Your parents are, your dad is,
16:16
Speaker 8: and that ain't your guest house. It's your dad's.
16:19
Speaker 1: Rob, why did he want to meet with you? What
16:21
Speaker 1: did he want?
16:23
Speaker 3: He was struggling.
16:24
Speaker 8: He wanted to be a really successful screenwriter. He wanted
16:27
Speaker 8: to be famous. I think he desperately wanted to step
16:31
Speaker 8: out of his mom and dad and his grandpa's shadow.
16:35
Speaker 8: He was a lost guy and he had access to
16:39
Speaker 8: resources that the rest of us people struggling in the
16:42
Speaker 8: entertainment business would absolutely, absolutely desire. He had phone numbers,
16:47
Speaker 8: he had emails, he had contacts, but unfortunately here, he
16:50
Speaker 8: didn't have a lot of talent.
16:52
Speaker 3: And so he had trouble squaring that.
16:55
Speaker 8: And he was looking for somebody to come along and
16:59
Speaker 8: turn him into the next amazing screenwriter, which obviously I
17:04
Speaker 8: couldn't do and nobody else could do.
17:05
Speaker 3: Only he could do, and he didn't have the gifts
17:07
Speaker 3: to do that.
17:08
Speaker 1: Rob Shooter, you stated that he contacted you to meet
17:11
Speaker 1: with him because he wanted to become a successful screenwriter.
17:15
Speaker 1: What is your experience, Shooter, as a screenwriter?
17:19
Speaker 3: My experience is zero.
17:20
Speaker 8: I have never written a screenplay.
17:23
Speaker 3: Okay.
17:23
Speaker 1: So what you're good at, what your forte is, is
17:27
Speaker 1: you are a PR guru. People from all around the
17:31
Speaker 1: world come to you for PR help, public relations help,
17:34
Speaker 1: whether they're in a crisis or they just want to
17:37
Speaker 1: become famous for whatever reason. You've seen it all from
17:40
Speaker 1: Brittany to Sean Combs, so many more. So he didn't
17:44
Speaker 1: come to you for help to become a screenwriter. He
17:47
Speaker 1: came to you because he wanted to be famous.
17:51
Speaker 8: Yeah, there was no craft there. He didn't come to
17:53
Speaker 8: me to learn the art of becoming successful. He had
17:56
Speaker 8: no interest in learning his craft. He had no interest
18:00
Speaker 8: in taking a screenwriting class and learning how to do this.
18:04
Speaker 8: He wanted to go straight from zero to 100. And
18:07
Speaker 8: this is not that uncommon. It very rarely happens, but
18:10
Speaker 8: everybody wants to be famous. Everybody wants to be successful.
18:13
Speaker 8: Are you willing to put in the work, the hours,
18:16
Speaker 8: the hours, the years, the years, I tell everybody that
18:19
Speaker 8: works with me, for a little bit of success, it's
18:21
Speaker 8: going to take five to 10 years of hard work.
18:25
Speaker 3: He wasn't willing to do that. He wanted to go
18:26
Speaker 3: straight from a zero to 100.
18:28
Speaker 1: Well, how did he want you to make him famous?
18:31
Speaker 1: What were you supposed to do?
18:33
Speaker 8: He had no idea how I'd do it. He thought
18:35
Speaker 8: I'd done it for other people. I explained to him very,
18:38
Speaker 8: very carefully that I had worked with a lot of celebrities,
18:42
Speaker 8: but I hadn't turned anybody into a star who didn't
18:46
Speaker 8: do the work. And that everybody I worked with from
18:49
Speaker 8: a Jennifer Lopez to a Jean Bon Jovi works their
18:52
Speaker 8: tail off. There's this thing, this perception out there. that
18:56
Speaker 8: you can become famous overnight without doing the work. And
19:00
Speaker 8: it's just not true. You have to do the work.
19:02
Speaker 8: He showed almost zero interest in that. I asked him
19:06
Speaker 8: if he had a screenplay. Show me your play. Let
19:08
Speaker 8: me read it.
19:08
Speaker 3: Let me see.
19:09
Speaker 8: He hadn't even put together a sentence.
19:11
Speaker 3: He sent me nothing. Okay.
19:14
Speaker 1: Does that change your opinion, Dr. Bethany Marshall, what you
19:17
Speaker 1: were learning from Rob Shooter? We're getting to the very latest.
19:21
Speaker 1: We know where he's being held right now. We know
19:23
Speaker 1: what his lawyer is up to. We have seen the
19:26
Speaker 1: very latest videos and evidence. We have evidence from the
19:30
Speaker 1: hotel where he snuck into and literally blacked out the
19:36
Speaker 1: windows with sheets hiding out where he cleaned up, leaving
19:41
Speaker 1: behind blood in the shower, his parents' blood, Before I
19:46
Speaker 1: get to that, this is a real insight for me, Dr.
19:49
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. I usually don't get to have this when
19:53
Speaker 1: I'm looking at a target. This changes a lot for me,
19:58
Speaker 1: this insight into Nick Reiner's mind, Bethany.
20:03
Speaker 9: Yes, it changes a lot for me too. I was
20:05
Speaker 9: fascinated by what Rob was saying because what I'm hearing
20:09
Speaker 9: is true entitlement. Entitlement is the expectation of reward without achievement.
20:16
Speaker 9: You want to be at the top of Mount Everest,
20:18
Speaker 9: but you don't wanna work out, hike, get all the equipment,
20:21
Speaker 9: try to get yourself to the top. You just wanna
20:22
Speaker 9: be magically helicoptered there. And so people who have severe addictions,
20:28
Speaker 9: like obviously Nick did, they have to work really hard
20:33
Speaker 9: to surmount those addictions, right? They have to go to rehab.
20:36
Speaker 9: They have to surround themselves with a community that will
20:39
Speaker 9: hold them responsible. But if you're drug addicted and entitled,
20:43
Speaker 9: you are not going to put in the work to
20:46
Speaker 9: gain sobriety. Now, if you're living in a guest house
20:50
Speaker 9: with very rich, very talented, renowned parents, what you're going
20:56
Speaker 9: to see is a sack of gold on the other
20:58
Speaker 9: side of the driveway. And if yours, it doesn't belong
21:01
Speaker 9: to them anymore.
21:02
Speaker 1: Now it's yours.
21:03
Speaker 9: You should have it yourself, even though maybe you haven't
21:06
Speaker 9: done anything to earn it, right? Maybe you haven't gone
21:10
Speaker 9: to Conan O'Brien's Christmas party and chatted people up and
21:14
Speaker 9: been kind and, you know, taken pictures, shake hands or
21:19
Speaker 9: anything like that. You just think that it belongs to you.
21:23
Speaker 9: And so what I hear is somebody who thinks he
21:25
Speaker 9: should be famous. He doesn't have the talent. He doesn't
21:28
Speaker 9: want to put in the work. He is building up
21:30
Speaker 9: this boiling resentment towards his parents who did put in
21:35
Speaker 9: the work and his grandfather who did put in the
21:38
Speaker 9: work and envy that green-eyed monster envy when you want
21:42
Speaker 9: something somebody else has and you don't feel you can
21:45
Speaker 9: get it for yourself. It causes the wish to destroy
21:49
Speaker 9: the object of your envy. And I think that's what
21:52
Speaker 9: we're seeing right now is that he just he destroyed
21:54
Speaker 9: his parents, even though they gave him every benefit, every opportunity.
21:59
Speaker 9: He thought he could just skate in and, you know,
22:03
Speaker 9: have lunch with our naughty but nice, you know, person
22:07
Speaker 9: here and that all of a sudden he would be famous.
22:10
Speaker 9: It's the offending pattern. I see it everywhere now as
22:13
Speaker 9: we're talking about it tonight.
22:14
Speaker 1: As we go to air tonight, we're learning the district
22:17
Speaker 1: attorney there in L.A. has filed formal charges, including, you
22:24
Speaker 1: legal eagles, if you caught this, special circumstances, which means
22:29
Speaker 1: the death penalty is on the table.
22:31
Speaker 5: These charges carry a maximum sentence of life in prison
22:36
Speaker 5: without the possibility of parole or the death penalty. No
22:41
Speaker 5: decision at this point has been made with respect to
22:44
Speaker 5: the death penalty. We have requested and currently Nick Reiner
22:49
Speaker 5: is being held without bail. One of these special allegations
22:52
Speaker 5: is that the murder was committed with a deadly weapon
22:55
Speaker 5: or a knife. As to where and how the weapon
23:02
Speaker 5: was located or will be located, that will actually be
23:06
Speaker 5: evidence we'll present in court.
23:07
Speaker 1: The murders of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer Reiner
23:11
Speaker 1: stabbed dead multiple stab wounds. Injuries to the neck, categorized
23:16
Speaker 1: as slash wounds. Both their throats slit. Arterial bleed is
23:21
Speaker 1: like a water sprinkler.
23:22
Speaker 9: I can guarantee you that this is a bloodbath.
23:27
Speaker 1: And in the last hours, Nick Reiner, suspect number one
23:31
Speaker 1: in the murders of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer Reiner,
23:35
Speaker 1: appears in court looking grim, wearing shackles and a suicide
23:42
Speaker 1: smock as he makes his very first court appearance in
23:47
Speaker 1: the murder cases. Sidney Sumner, what happened? What happened, Nancy?
23:51
Speaker 10: Essentially nothing.
23:52
Speaker 11: Alan Jackson tells the judge he's already spoken with the prosecution,
23:56
Speaker 11: and they agree to postpone Reiner's arraignment until the new year,
23:59
Speaker 11: so they'll be back in court on January 7th. The
24:02
Speaker 11: judge asks Reiner if he agrees to waive his right
24:05
Speaker 11: to a speedy arraignment, and Reiner meekly responds, yes, your honor.
24:09
Speaker 11: The only thing we really learned here is that Reiner
24:12
Speaker 11: is likely being held on suicide watch, evidenced by that
24:16
Speaker 11: barely visible blue smock.
24:18
Speaker 1: So Sidney Sumner, the spoiled brat turned accused double killer,
24:23
Speaker 1: said very little in court. He appeared behind glass. He
24:27
Speaker 1: was shackled. He did not enter a plea. Why?
24:32
Speaker 10: Mr.
24:33
Speaker 11: Jackson answered that for his client, telling the judge it's
24:36
Speaker 11: too early to enter a plea as he had just
24:38
Speaker 11: a few minutes with his client before this initial appearance.
24:42
Speaker 11: It seems the court is already on holiday mode as
24:45
Speaker 11: both prosecutors and the judge quickly agreed to postpone until
24:49
Speaker 11: January 7th.
24:57
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Months after both parents murdered,
25:05
Speaker 1: Jake Reiner... says the last months have been a, quote,
25:09
Speaker 1: living nightmare, and I'm sure that they have. The bad
25:18
Speaker 1: news is it never goes away. I know firsthand. It
25:24
Speaker 1: does get less painful. You don't cry every day, but
25:32
Speaker 1: that shock and that trauma and that hurt really changes
25:37
Speaker 1: the fabric of your DNA. I know that for a
25:40
Speaker 1: fact firsthand. It changes how you see the world. With
25:45
Speaker 1: facts like these, I just pray for this family. I
25:49
Speaker 1: pray for the children left behind, specifically the ones that
25:55
Speaker 1: aren't in jail for murder. These facts must haunt him
26:02
Speaker 1: every night, every day. These are the facts. Once high-profile
26:06
Speaker 1: lawyer Alan Jackson enters the scene, Jackson waives the right
26:10
Speaker 1: to a speedy arraignment, and it has been delayed. Remember,
26:15
Speaker 1: a defense attorney's best friend. Delay, delay, delay, and so
26:20
Speaker 1: it has started.
26:21
Speaker 11: Well, I don't think we can be too hard on
26:23
Speaker 11: Jackson yet. I'm not sure this delay can be categorized
26:27
Speaker 11: as unnecessary. We saw Jackson go into the courthouse less
26:31
Speaker 11: than 45 minutes before this arraignment, giving him just a
26:34
Speaker 11: few minutes to meet with Reiner and the prosecutors. I
26:37
Speaker 11: can't blame him for pushing back a plea to get
26:40
Speaker 11: a chance to actually sit down with Reiner and get
26:43
Speaker 11: a better understanding of his story.
26:45
Speaker 1: The arrest of Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer Reiner's son
26:49
Speaker 1: goes down in a public location, and eyewitnesses state that
26:54
Speaker 1: Nick Reiner, the defendant in this case, seemingly was acting
26:58
Speaker 1: like a, quote, ordinary guy.
27:00
Speaker 12: He was arrested in a public area, in the Exposition
27:04
Speaker 12: Park area near the University of Southern California campus. He
27:08
Speaker 12: was approached by the officers, and he was arrested without incident.
27:10
Speaker 12: There were no indications that... There was no indication that
27:15
Speaker 12: he was going to resist or anything like that. He
27:17
Speaker 12: didn't flee or anything like that. He was taken into
27:18
Speaker 12: custody without issue, and he was transported to our police
27:24
Speaker 12: headquarters facility.
27:25
Speaker 1: Kayla Brantley joining us, investigative reporter, DailyMail.com. Kayla, what happened?
27:30
Speaker 1: Tell me about how the arrest went down.
27:32
Speaker 6: Yeah, as you can see from those pictures and as
27:34
Speaker 6: was described by the officer, Nick Reiner appeared very calm, collected.
27:39
Speaker 6: He didn't put up a fight. And you can see
27:41
Speaker 6: in these pictures right here, you know, he put his
27:43
Speaker 6: arms behind his back. He was not resisting arrest. And
27:47
Speaker 6: It appears that he was in those same clothes that
27:50
Speaker 6: he was seen in that earlier surveillance footage that you showed.
27:53
Speaker 6: So he didn't have a change of clothes and he
27:55
Speaker 6: was taken away very easily.
27:57
Speaker 1: Tell me about what was found at the hotel.
28:01
Speaker 6: It was a horrific scene. Now, what we've learned is
28:04
Speaker 6: that there was blood.
28:05
Speaker 1: Everywhere.
28:06
Speaker 6: He's obviously changed his clothes. There was no blood on him,
28:09
Speaker 6: as you saw there. And what they haven't found yet
28:13
Speaker 6: or what they haven't disclosed that they found yet is
28:15
Speaker 6: a murder weapon. So obviously, everyone's assuming that there was
28:18
Speaker 6: a knife that was used for those lacerations to his.
28:21
Speaker 1: Parents' throat.
28:22
Speaker 6: But we haven't learned yet if that has been found
28:24
Speaker 6: or if it was found in the hotel or at
28:26
Speaker 6: the crime scene.
28:28
Speaker 1: You're right, Kayla Brantley, DailyMail.com. Take a listen to the L.A.
28:32
Speaker 5: District's attorney, One of these special allegations is that the
28:35
Speaker 5: murder was committed with a deadly weapon or a knife.
28:39
Speaker 5: As to where and how the weapon was located or
28:46
Speaker 5: will be located, that will actually be evidence we'll present
28:49
Speaker 5: in court.
28:49
Speaker 1: You see the local district attorney seemingly correcting himself, pausing
28:53
Speaker 1: there about the weapon. Well, it will be located. It
28:58
Speaker 1: was located. That tells me that the weapon has been discarded.
29:05
Speaker 1: Much like in the Brian Koberger case, we found the
29:08
Speaker 1: knife hilt with the defendant's DNA on it underneath one
29:13
Speaker 1: of the murder victims, but we never found the actual knife. Interesting.
29:21
Speaker 1: Joining me, Scott Eicher, digital forensics expert, founding member of
29:25
Speaker 1: the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey team. FBI, 22 years and
29:33
Speaker 1: former homicide detective in Norfolk. Scott, thank you for being
29:37
Speaker 1: with us. I want to find that. weapon. And after
29:41
Speaker 1: much analysis, I think the best way to find the
29:45
Speaker 1: weapon is to track Nick Reiner's cell phone. How do
29:50
Speaker 1: we do it?
29:52
Speaker 13: Well, there are several different ways to do that. You've
29:54
Speaker 13: got all the different applications on the cell phone and
29:56
Speaker 13: the cellular connections that the cell phone makes all the
30:01
Speaker 13: time when it's on. So you can track the towers.
30:05
Speaker 13: You can get more detailed information from distance from the towers.
30:09
Speaker 13: And you might be able to get some information from
30:11
Speaker 13: the applications like Google or Facebook, Instagram. All those provide
30:17
Speaker 13: some locational information so you can track him historically from
30:22
Speaker 13: the house to the hotel and maybe or to where
30:26
Speaker 13: he was arrested, which was about, you know, 12, 13
30:30
Speaker 13: miles away. So there's a good amount of distance between
30:33
Speaker 13: those locations. So they got their work cut out to
30:36
Speaker 13: try to figure it out. But obviously, they've got this video.
30:39
Speaker 13: They've gotten to a point. They're putting a timeline together,
30:43
Speaker 13: and they're just going to chronologically go through each little
30:47
Speaker 13: step to see where they could figure out where he
30:49
Speaker 13: might have put that knife.
30:50
Speaker 1: That gas station video from our friends at CBS. Okay,
30:53
Speaker 1: I'm going to go out on a limb here and
30:55
Speaker 1: go back to Philip Dubé. He is actually a veteran
30:59
Speaker 1: trial lawyer. He's a defense attorney, and he has been
31:02
Speaker 1: with the L.A. County Public Defender's Office. What does that mean?
31:05
Speaker 1: They're on trial all the time, just like assistant district attorneys.
31:10
Speaker 1: There are thousands of cases to be handled, and you've
31:13
Speaker 1: got to go to trial or else you get fired.
31:17
Speaker 1: Very simply put. Philip Dubé, this guy may have been
31:21
Speaker 1: in the movie Mailou. He's been around screenwriters. He's been
31:25
Speaker 1: around stars. He's been around plenty of whodunit movies. But
31:29
Speaker 1: do you really think that he thought to, he's only
31:34
Speaker 1: alleged to have committed these crimes, but would he have
31:36
Speaker 1: thought so deeply to think, oh, let me turn my
31:40
Speaker 1: phone off before I get rid of the murder weapon.
31:43
Speaker 1: Let me put it on airplane mode. I don't think so.
31:47
Speaker 1: Remember one of our last suspects that put the phone
31:50
Speaker 1: on airplane mode? Oh, yes. That would be Barry Morphew,
31:57
Speaker 1: whose phone went on airplane mode around the time his
32:01
Speaker 1: wife was killed or went missing. So, Philip Dubé, do
32:06
Speaker 1: you really think he thought that deeply when he got
32:10
Speaker 1: rid of the weapon?
32:11
Speaker 5: No.
32:12
Speaker 7: And I'll tell you why. I can tell by the charges.
32:15
Speaker 7: The prosecution is not alleging that this was a planned
32:18
Speaker 7: premeditated murder. The only reason why he's rising to the
32:22
Speaker 7: level of it being a special circumstance is because there
32:25
Speaker 7: were multiple victims. They're not even alleging that he did
32:28
Speaker 7: it for financial gain, which certainly is the classic motive,
32:33
Speaker 7: particularly in Hollywood. So what you really have here is
32:36
Speaker 7: somebody who is out of his mind, again, likely due
32:39
Speaker 7: to psychosis, drugs, or maybe even an untreated personality disorder.
32:45
Speaker 7: who flew off the handle in a fit of rage
32:47
Speaker 7: for whatever reason and fled while still in that either
32:52
Speaker 7: drug-induced psychosis or some type of mental health crisis. Does
32:57
Speaker 7: it excuse the behavior?
32:58
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what, Sidney Sumner, that was all my
33:01
Speaker 1: fault because you never, on the stand anyway, ask a
33:05
Speaker 1: witness a question that you don't already know the answer to.
33:08
Speaker 1: So I asked him, Dubé, about the weapon and where
33:12
Speaker 1: it would have been discarded. And was the cell phone
33:15
Speaker 1: turned on or off at the time the weapon was discarded?
33:18
Speaker 1: And he goes back to his pretend drug psychosis theory.
33:21
Speaker 1: Sidney Sumner, let's get some facts. Joining me, Sidney Sumner,
33:24
Speaker 1: along with Kayla Brantley, Daily Mail, Sidney Sumner, Crime Stories
33:27
Speaker 1: investigative reporter. What exactly are the charges against Nick Reiner?
33:34
Speaker 1: We just heard the district attorney speaking. What are the charges?
33:38
Speaker 10: Well, Nick Reiner is charged with two counts of murder,
33:43
Speaker 10: with the special circumstances of multiple murders because he killed
33:47
Speaker 10: two people at the same time, and that special circumstance
33:50
Speaker 10: of using a deadly weapon.
33:53
Speaker 1: Sydney, aren't those murder charges first-degree murder? Isn't that true?
34:00
Speaker 10: You're right, Nancy. They are first-degree murder.
34:03
Speaker 1: And in this jurisdiction of California, murder one is.
34:10
Speaker 1: Murder with malice aforethought. That's what murder one is in California. Sydney?
34:17
Speaker 9: Exactly.
34:18
Speaker 10: So there is some assumption that this was premeditated in
34:22
Speaker 10: some degree.
34:23
Speaker 1: So when we hear Philip Dubé state that this is not,
34:28
Speaker 1: these are not charges that include intent, that's diametrically opposed
34:35
Speaker 1: to what the charges actually are. The charge is intent.
34:39
Speaker 1: Murder one. Again, out on a limb, Dubay, under the law,
34:44
Speaker 1: there is no specific time required to prove malice of
34:48
Speaker 1: ortho or, as we call it, premeditation. Premeditation to commit
34:53
Speaker 1: an act can be formed in the blink of an eye,
34:55
Speaker 1: the twinkling of the moment. Isn't that true, Dubay? Yes,
34:59
Speaker 1: it is. Okay, so when you say the charges do
35:04
Speaker 1: not include intent, that's actually not correct. This is a
35:09
Speaker 1: murder one charge, isn't it?
35:11
Speaker 5: Yes.
35:11
Speaker 7: No, I didn't say that it was not intentional. What
35:14
Speaker 7: I'm saying is it wasn't planned and premeditated.
35:16
Speaker 3: Yes, you did.
35:17
Speaker 1: Didn't he say that? Controller, didn't he just say that?
35:21
Speaker 1: They're saying, yes, you did just say that.
35:24
Speaker 7: Well, then I retract that.
35:25
Speaker 1: We've got it on tape. Do I have to play
35:27
Speaker 1: it back for you for Pete's sake, like the gas
35:28
Speaker 1: station video?
35:30
Speaker 7: It is absolutely an intentional act, but it was not
35:33
Speaker 7: planned and premeditated. In other words, it was for the moment.
35:36
Speaker 7: There's a difference.
35:37
Speaker 1: Murder One is premeditated murder. I feel like I'm screaming
35:42
Speaker 1: at a lamppost. Yes, it is. Murder One is with
35:47
Speaker 1: malice aforethought.
35:49
Speaker 7: Malice aforethought standing alone does not necessarily mean premeditated. It's
35:54
Speaker 7: a separate element. I'm telling you.
35:56
Speaker 1: Okay, what do you think malice aforethought is? Because I'm
35:59
Speaker 1: looking up Black's Law Dictionary right now. Go ahead. I
36:01
Speaker 1: can't wait to hear this. What do you think malice
36:03
Speaker 1: aforethought is?
36:05
Speaker 7: Malice aforethought is intentional killing. That's the bottom line.
36:10
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right.
36:11
Speaker 7: It is. Yes, that's right.
36:16
Speaker 1: It's intentional killing. Intent. You form intent. You have a plan.
36:21
Speaker 3: Not necessarily.
36:24
Speaker 7: Not necessarily. Absolutely not.
36:30
Speaker 1: I'm wasting very valuable time arguing with you about what
36:34
Speaker 1: you just admitted. These charges, and correct me if I'm wrong,
36:37
Speaker 1: Kayla Brantley, joining us from DailyMail.com, on this from the very,
36:42
Speaker 1: very beginning, Kayla Brantley, he, Nick Reiner, is charged with
36:48
Speaker 1: premeditated malice murder. That is what first-degree murder is. He
36:54
Speaker 1: is also charged with felony murder. That's an alternative count,
36:59
Speaker 1: which means you don't have intent. The state doesn't have
37:03
Speaker 1: to prove you had intent, but a death occurred, very simply,
37:09
Speaker 1: during the commission of a felony. In this case, that
37:13
Speaker 1: felony would clearly be aggravated assault with a knife. You
37:17
Speaker 1: don't have to have intent to prove felony murder, just
37:20
Speaker 1: that a death occurred during the commission of a felony.
37:24
Speaker 1: And A sentence for felony murder can be life without
37:27
Speaker 1: parole or death penalty. Again, tell me the charges, Kayla Brantley.
37:35
Speaker 6: It's two first-degree murder charges. There's the special circumstance and
37:39
Speaker 6: the special weapon charge right there. And like you said,
37:43
Speaker 6: either life in prison without the possibility of parole or
37:47
Speaker 6: the death penalty.
37:48
Speaker 5: Nick Reiner will be then brought to court. He is
37:51
Speaker 5: going through medical clearance, something that everybody who gets arrested
37:57
Speaker 5: and gets held in a Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department
37:59
Speaker 5: jail goes through. Once he is medically cleared, he will
38:02
Speaker 5: be brought to court to be arraigned on these charges.
38:06
Speaker 5: At that point, he will enter a plea of guilty
38:09
Speaker 5: or not guilty.
38:10
Speaker 1: Kellogg Brantley joining us, DailyMail.com. Why was he a no-show
38:14
Speaker 1: in court?
38:15
Speaker 6: According to Reiner's lawyer, Alan Jackson, he wasn't medically cleared
38:20
Speaker 6: to appear in court. Now we don't know exactly what
38:22
Speaker 6: that means, but as you heard there, that's something that's
38:25
Speaker 6: very standard. Everyone needs to get medically cleared. Now, This
38:28
Speaker 6: could be a psych evaluation. It could be a regular
38:32
Speaker 6: medical evaluation. We're still finding that out.
38:35
Speaker 1: It could be him refusing to put his clothes on.
38:37
Speaker 1: It could be him clinging to his bunk and refusing
38:41
Speaker 1: to go. We don't know what it is. Dubay, what
38:44
Speaker 1: is the reason that he was not, quote, medically cleared?
38:48
Speaker 1: Don't make something up, okay? He missed court.
38:53
Speaker 3: Why?
38:55
Speaker 7: I'm telling you, when he got booked, they brought him
38:57
Speaker 7: to the Twin Towers Correctional Facility, and they put him
39:00
Speaker 7: in a medical unit. My hunch is, and it's just
39:03
Speaker 7: based on my years of doing this stuff, that when
39:05
Speaker 7: they arrested him, they felt he was a danger to
39:08
Speaker 7: himself or to others still. So they put him under what's,
39:11
Speaker 7: my guess is, they put him under what's called a
39:13
Speaker 7: 5150 status, where it's basically an involuntary hold for a
39:18
Speaker 7: minimum of 72 hours, unless and until he is cleared
39:21
Speaker 7: by a doctor. And that includes going to court. If
39:25
Speaker 7: he is still psychotic, he cannot be brought to court.
39:28
Speaker 7: So my hunch is that they needed to medicate him
39:31
Speaker 7: to therapeutic levels, at least in the short term, so
39:34
Speaker 7: he could be brought to court for the arraignment. If
39:37
Speaker 7: they need to extend the hold, they can do it,
39:39
Speaker 7: I believe, up to two weeks, anything beyond that. They
39:42
Speaker 7: have to go into court, the mental health court, for
39:45
Speaker 7: an order extending the involuntary hold pending arraignment.
39:49
Speaker 1: To Kayla Brantley, have you heard anything at all about
39:53
Speaker 1: him being in psychosis, suicide watch? What do you know,
39:58
Speaker 1: if anything, about that?
40:00
Speaker 13: Not yet.
40:00
Speaker 6: We haven't heard anything about his current status. But what
40:03
Speaker 6: we have found out from family friends of the Reiners,
40:06
Speaker 6: people who knew him his entire life, is that from
40:09
Speaker 6: an early age, he appeared to be a difficult child
40:12
Speaker 6: to through tantrums. One of the sources is quoted as
40:16
Speaker 6: saying he had anger in his eyes and at some
40:19
Speaker 6: point his father, Rob Reiner, would have to restrain him
40:21
Speaker 6: during these tantrums. And that those tantrums really progressed into adulthood.
40:27
Speaker 2: Dr.
40:27
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, just because Nick Reiner has been booked into
40:31
Speaker 1: Twin Towers, that means nothing to me. Other people, other
40:35
Speaker 1: celebrities have been there. Cosby, Bill Cosby, O.J. Simpson, Al Capone,
40:42
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy. Birdman of Alcatraz, Bernie Madoff, who worked the
40:48
Speaker 1: world's largest Ponzi scheme. He certainly wasn't crazy. He was brilliant, evil,
40:54
Speaker 1: but brilliant. And many, many others. How Dubé is extrapolating
40:59
Speaker 1: because he went to Twin Towers must mean he's on
41:02
Speaker 1: a psychiatric hold. That doesn't make sense. What do you
41:07
Speaker 1: think is happening, Dr. Bethany? Another tantrum?
41:11
Speaker 9: Another tantrum. Out of an abundance of caution, they're going
41:13
Speaker 9: to make sure he doesn't want to harm himself or
41:15
Speaker 9: other people, but he's not a risk there. What I'm
41:19
Speaker 9: going to say is when you diagnose people, you can
41:21
Speaker 9: diagnose them on five axes. Axis one is mental disorders.
41:26
Speaker 9: Axis two is personality disorders. They're treating him like he
41:30
Speaker 9: has a mental disorder, but Nancy, this is personality driven.
41:34
Speaker 9: He had tantrums. From the time he was very little,
41:38
Speaker 9: according to one report, when he was 11 years old,
41:42
Speaker 9: he had such a huge tantrum that his father had
41:46
Speaker 9: to put him in a big bear hug and hold
41:49
Speaker 9: him to help him regulate down into a normal state.
41:55
Speaker 9: Could it be that Nick is.
41:59
Speaker 1: Bethany, can I tell you something, please, before you say
42:02
Speaker 1: one more word? before we hear any more made-up theories
42:06
Speaker 1: from Philip Dubé, and he wins a lot of cases
42:09
Speaker 1: on arguments just like this, by the way. Paris Hilton,
42:13
Speaker 1: who has since become quite the hero on various fronts
42:16
Speaker 1: and now is a married mom, Paris Hilton was put
42:20
Speaker 1: in the Twin Towers after violating probation from a DUI.
42:27
Speaker 1: She was put there because she was, quote, claustrophobic.
42:30
Speaker 8: Mm-hmm. All right?
42:32
Speaker 7: So.
42:33
Speaker 1: All of Dubé spinning out his theories, that's not supported
42:38
Speaker 1: by the facts we know tonight. He just happened to
42:41
Speaker 1: be booked into Twin Towers. It's in that jurisdiction. So
42:45
Speaker 1: that really means nothing to me probatively at this juncture.
42:50
Speaker 1: But I do know he's hired a very high-profile lawyer,
42:54
Speaker 1: Alan Jackson.
42:55
Speaker 3: We'll be back day to day.
42:57
Speaker 2: The bailiff has indicated that the Sheriff's Department will take
42:59
Speaker 2: it on a day-by-day basis.
43:01
Speaker 3: So hopefully we'll be good tomorrow.
43:05
Speaker 1: From our friends at Fox News Digital, Sidney Sumner, who
43:08
Speaker 1: is paying for him?
43:11
Speaker 10: That is the million-dollar question. I don't think his siblings
43:15
Speaker 10: are footing the bill, and I don't know what kind
43:18
Speaker 10: of funds he has access to that don't belong to
43:20
Speaker 10: his parents. So it's very unclear where Alan Jackson is
43:25
Speaker 10: going to get his paycheck from.
43:27
Speaker 1: Two special guests joining us now. Dr. Kendall Crowns, renowned
43:31
Speaker 1: chief medical examiner out of Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth.
43:34
Speaker 1: He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of
43:37
Speaker 1: Medicine at TCU, and he's the star of a hit
43:40
Speaker 1: new podcast, Mayhem in the Morgue. But don't be fooled
43:44
Speaker 1: by his joviality on his podcast. He has conducted thousands
43:49
Speaker 1: and thousands of autopsies. Dr. Kendall Crowns, thank you for
43:54
Speaker 1: being with us. Dr. Crowns, there is a big difference
43:58
Speaker 1: in stab wounds and the slicing of his parents' throats.
44:03
Speaker 1: What would the stab wounds to the body, not the
44:07
Speaker 1: slicing of the throats, indicate to you?
44:11
Speaker 14: So a stab wound is a wound that is actually
44:15
Speaker 14: longer than it, or the wound itself is shorter than
44:18
Speaker 14: it is deep. So as the knife enters into the skin,
44:22
Speaker 14: it leaves a wound that is very small, but the
44:25
Speaker 14: actual wound course is very deep. The wounds they're describing
44:30
Speaker 14: on the Reiners is a slashing wound or incised wound
44:34
Speaker 14: that is longer than it is deep. So it's kind
44:37
Speaker 14: of a shallow wound that hits multiple organs or multiple vessels,
44:41
Speaker 14: but doesn't go very deep into the tissues.
44:44
Speaker 1: Well, let me understand something, Dr. Kendall-Crowns. Even though the
44:49
Speaker 1: slicing motion you just made doesn't have to be deep,
44:54
Speaker 1: in fact, it can be quite shallow, that would likely
44:57
Speaker 1: be the mortal wound and why?
45:02
Speaker 14: So the vessels or the structures in your neck, carotid artery,
45:06
Speaker 14: jugular vein, your trachea, they're all very close to the surface,
45:11
Speaker 14: like millimeters or less than a quarter inch below your skin.
45:15
Speaker 14: You have these vital structures. You hit the carotid artery,
45:18
Speaker 14: it's going to start spurting blood out and it's going
45:21
Speaker 14: to be lots of blood coming out in a very
45:23
Speaker 14: short period of time. You'll be dead in minutes. If
45:26
Speaker 14: you just hit the jugular vein, it'll start oozing heavily.
45:29
Speaker 14: And again, you'll be dead in minutes. You cut the trachea,
45:33
Speaker 14: you're going to have trouble breathing. And when you cut
45:36
Speaker 14: the trachea, you'll also cut blood vessels. You'll get blood
45:39
Speaker 14: into your trachea. So when you're dying, you're sucking in blood,
45:42
Speaker 14: and you're basically drowning in your own blood as you're
45:45
Speaker 14: bleeding to death.
45:46
Speaker 1: Dr. Kendall-Crowns, we know that when their daughter Romy arrived
45:50
Speaker 1: and called authorities, the fire department arrived, and they stated
45:56
Speaker 1: that the Reiners were already in full rigor That tells
46:01
Speaker 1: me an approximate time of death. Could you explain?
46:05
Speaker 14: So rigor mortis is the stiffening of the joints that
46:07
Speaker 14: occurs after you die. And what happens is your muscles
46:12
Speaker 14: continue to use the things they use for metabolism even
46:18
Speaker 14: after you die. And when they run out of these substances,
46:20
Speaker 14: they go into full contraction. And this can start occurring
46:25
Speaker 14: in about a half hour to an hour after death.
46:27
Speaker 14: and gets to a maximum about 12 hours. So it
46:30
Speaker 14: starts in the small muscles first and then goes to
46:32
Speaker 14: the larger muscles throughout your body. So if you see
46:36
Speaker 14: full rigor, it could be about 12 hours. But it
46:39
Speaker 14: can be affected by activity, drug use, how much blood
46:43
Speaker 14: loss you've had, a number of other factors, how warm
46:46
Speaker 14: it is in the house. So using it as an
46:49
Speaker 14: exact time frame for the post-mortem interval is difficult.
47:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jake Reiner, the son of
47:09
Speaker 1: Rob and Michelle Reiner, states, quote, nobody really understands what
47:13
Speaker 1: it's like to go through something like that until you're
47:17
Speaker 1: living it. It's been eight months. It feels like eight
47:20
Speaker 1: years at the same time. And it also feels like
47:23
Speaker 1: eight minutes because every moment that I wake up, I'm
47:27
Speaker 1: reminded of my reality. Oh gosh, that hurts to even
47:34
Speaker 1: say it out loud. I remember distinctly waking up in
47:39
Speaker 1: the mornings after my fiancé' s murder and just for just
47:42
Speaker 1: a split second thinking everything was normal and then it
47:46
Speaker 1: would hit. Hard to reconcile. Is this really true? These
47:52
Speaker 1: are the facts that are making his life and his
47:56
Speaker 1: sister's life living hell. Isn't it true that after a
48:00
Speaker 1: period of hours when someone is in rigor, the rigor
48:04
Speaker 1: breaks and the deceased's limbs become limber again?
48:11
Speaker 4: Yes.
48:11
Speaker 14: After the 12-hour interval of it setting up, you'll stay
48:17
Speaker 14: in full rigor for about 10 to 12 hours. And
48:20
Speaker 14: after that, it starts to subside and disappears over another
48:25
Speaker 14: 12 hours unless someone moves it and breaks the rigor further.
48:29
Speaker 14: and then it goes away completely. So you have about
48:33
Speaker 14: a 24-hour window of full rigor before it disappears.
48:37
Speaker 1: Okay, is it 12 hours or 24 hours?
48:39
Speaker 14: So 12 hours to set up, 10 to 12 hours
48:42
Speaker 14: after it sets up where it stays in place, and
48:45
Speaker 14: then after that it begins to subside over another 12 hours.
48:50
Speaker 1: Okay, Dr. Kendall Crowns, what type of defensive wounds would
48:54
Speaker 1: you have expected to be found on Michelle Brown? and
48:58
Speaker 1: Rob Reiner's bodies. We've heard nothing about defensive wounds, such
49:02
Speaker 1: as blocking with the hands, the arms, even curling up
49:06
Speaker 1: in a fetal position and getting defensive wounds on the
49:08
Speaker 1: knees or the legs. I've heard nothing about that. I've
49:11
Speaker 1: only heard about stabs, we believe, to the torso.
49:16
Speaker 14: So, since they were in bed and may have been asleep,
49:19
Speaker 14: they could have not even seen this coming and not
49:22
Speaker 14: had an opportunity to react. Since there's two individuals, at
49:26
Speaker 14: least one individual probably was awoken by the other individual
49:29
Speaker 14: being killed and may have had a chance to defend themselves.
49:33
Speaker 14: But usually defensive wounds is what you see is the
49:35
Speaker 14: individual trying to grab the knife and trying not to
49:38
Speaker 14: be stabbed. And you'll see slices or incised wounds across
49:42
Speaker 14: the fingers, across the palm of the hand. And then
49:45
Speaker 14: you'll see also incised wounds or stab wounds of the
49:48
Speaker 14: forearms as they're trying to block the knife themselves. And again,
49:54
Speaker 14: like you said, you may pull up your legs even
49:57
Speaker 14: and you'll see stab wounds or incised wounds on the
49:59
Speaker 14: legs and feet.
50:00
Speaker 13: Did we all just forget that Rob Reiner was on
50:02
Speaker 13: this list or what?
50:05
Speaker 14: Now he's dead?
50:06
Speaker 1: What? The zany conspiracy theories have already started. Sidney Sumner,
50:11
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter. I don't recall Rob Reiner's name
50:14
Speaker 1: being on the Epstein list, by the way. That was
50:16
Speaker 1: from at Hunter Montrose on TikTok.
50:19
Speaker 11: Sid?
50:20
Speaker 10: The list that that user is standing in front of
50:23
Speaker 10: is not real. That is a fake list that has
50:26
Speaker 10: been circulating on social media. And Rob Reiner's name is
50:30
Speaker 10: on that fake list and circled, but there's no actual
50:34
Speaker 10: evidence supporting that he had any ties to Jeffrey Epstein.
50:38
Speaker 1: So sorry, Hunter, your zany conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.
50:42
Speaker 1: Rob Reiner was not on the Epstein list for Pete's sake,
50:45
Speaker 1: but There's no lack of theories. Maybe Philip Dubé can
50:50
Speaker 1: use these as the defense.
50:51
Speaker 14: Listen.
50:52
Speaker 2: Rob had been working on a series called The Spy
50:54
Speaker 2: and the Asset. The series was going to be about
50:57
Speaker 2: Putin and Donald Trump, their upbringings, different ways they intersected,
51:01
Speaker 2: and in Rob's words... What happens to democracy as a
51:04
Speaker 2: result of this convergence? That relationship of Trump and Putin
51:08
Speaker 2: being explored and extrapolated and navigated is going to bring
51:12
Speaker 2: a whole lot of corruption up to the surface, right?
51:14
Speaker 1: That from at Studio A8 on TikTok to Scott Eicher
51:19
Speaker 1: joining us, who was a founding member of the FBI
51:22
Speaker 1: cellular analysis survey team. Scott, I think I'd rather rely
51:28
Speaker 1: not on zany conspiracy theories. I will leave that to
51:31
Speaker 1: our veteran trial lawyer, Philip Dubé. Scott, I'd rather deal
51:36
Speaker 1: with hard facts. How difficult is it going to be
51:40
Speaker 1: for me to trace Nick Reiner's cell phone, where he
51:46
Speaker 1: went that night, any credit card or ATM use, and
51:52
Speaker 1: what was it for? I need to track not only
51:56
Speaker 1: his phone, but where there was a delay, even in
51:59
Speaker 1: the Alex Murdoch case, where Murdoch murdered his wife Maggie
52:03
Speaker 1: and son Paul. As he left the scene, I got
52:07
Speaker 1: from his, well, prosecutor, Waters got from his nav system,
52:12
Speaker 1: where he slowed down and the nav system showed Scott
52:15
Speaker 1: Eicher him lowering the passenger side window electronically. That's where
52:21
Speaker 1: he threw out Maggie's cell phone. Then he let the
52:25
Speaker 1: window up, sped up, and went and hid out at
52:28
Speaker 1: his mother's house who had dementia and really could not
52:30
Speaker 1: say what time he got there. That said, that's what
52:34
Speaker 1: I'm looking for. You know, this guy didn't think deeply
52:38
Speaker 1: enough to turn his phone on airplane mode or turn
52:41
Speaker 1: it off when he discarded the knife. So how am
52:44
Speaker 1: I going to find the knife?
52:48
Speaker 13: It sure does look like a crime of passion. In
52:53
Speaker 13: those instances, a lot of times the suspects do not
52:57
Speaker 13: turn off their phones. Don't think ahead like that.
53:01
Speaker 7: Once you get.
53:01
Speaker 13: The identifying information about the suspect, phone records, vehicle records,
53:10
Speaker 13: credit cards, it's really interesting how you can put a
53:14
Speaker 13: timeline together and kind of piece together all the things
53:18
Speaker 13: that happened before and after the crime.
53:21
Speaker 1: Hey, Scott Eicher. You and I have both marveled at
53:24
Speaker 1: the video montage put together by L.E. Law Enforcement in
53:28
Speaker 1: the Fotis Dulos case. They got him every which way
53:33
Speaker 1: but loose on video from ring doorbell cams to stoplight cam.
53:39
Speaker 1: This is after his wife, Jennifer, the mother of his
53:41
Speaker 1: five children, was murdered. I'm thinking that this neighborhood is
53:46
Speaker 1: blanketed in ring doorbell and stoplight cam, you name it.
53:52
Speaker 1: I bet they can follow him almost everywhere he went.
53:55
Speaker 1: And if he took an Uber or a ride share,
53:59
Speaker 1: there may be video in there that can help me
54:02
Speaker 1: track him and find the knife. That said, here's another
54:06
Speaker 1: zany theory. Listen up, Dube.
54:08
Speaker 2: Nick Reiner, who is allegedly the murderer in this case,
54:11
Speaker 2: the son of Robin Michelle, who killed both of his parents, allegedly.
54:14
Speaker 2: His name did not appear on Google Trends really at all.
54:18
Speaker 2: Here's it in the United States. United States, Nick Reiner, nothing, nothing.
54:22
Speaker 2: This is showing starting yesterday, 14th. So that was the
54:27
Speaker 2: United States. This is what happens when you look up
54:29
Speaker 2: the exact same query and only change the geolocation to
54:32
Speaker 2: be Tel Aviv instead of the United States.
54:35
Speaker 1: Nick Reiner.
54:35
Speaker 6: Tel Aviv.
54:36
Speaker 8: Nothing, nothing, nothing. Oh, look at that. Two bumps.
54:39
Speaker 2: A couple months ago. Last month.
54:44
Speaker 8: Interesting.
54:45
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, bumps.
54:46
Speaker 1: Again from at Studio A8 on TikTok. So, Dubé, I
54:51
Speaker 1: guess she's arguing. You may want to take notes to
54:54
Speaker 1: put this in with your drugs, like Coase's theory. That he, what,
54:58
Speaker 1: is actually a spy? She's mentioning Tel Aviv. I don't
55:02
Speaker 1: know what that has to do with. Maybe he's an avatar.
55:04
Speaker 1: Maybe he's a ghost. Maybe he doesn't even exist. Then
55:07
Speaker 1: who's that sitting in the Twin Towers?
55:10
Speaker 7: I got to tell you, I think it's genius because
55:12
Speaker 7: if we're all honest, it forms the basis of the
55:14
Speaker 7: not guilty by reason of insanity defense. If he truly
55:18
Speaker 7: thinks that he's going to be beamed up by the
55:20
Speaker 7: Starship Enterprise and he's got all kinds of wild imaginings.
55:24
Speaker 1: Nobody said that. You said that.
55:26
Speaker 7: Well, what else would it be?
55:27
Speaker 1: He just didn't have a Google profile. He had no
55:29
Speaker 1: social media profile.
55:31
Speaker 7: That's the evidence.
55:32
Speaker 1: And now you're claiming you've got another psychosis defense because
55:36
Speaker 1: he's not on social media.
55:38
Speaker 7: No, not because of that.
55:39
Speaker 1: Okay, good. I'm happy you said that. I couldn't be
55:42
Speaker 1: more happy. Jake Reiner states, quote, Romy called me and
55:47
Speaker 1: I screened it because I thought at the time I'm
55:49
Speaker 1: in the middle of something, you know, I'll call her back.
55:52
Speaker 1: And then she called immediately again. And I knew at
55:55
Speaker 1: that point something was wrong. Romy told me our dad
56:00
Speaker 1: was dead. And then she said, I can't find Mom.
56:06
Speaker 1: I immediately went into shock. Oh, my stars, I can't
56:10
Speaker 1: find Mom, she said. Because her mom's body, I guess,
56:15
Speaker 1: just looked like a pillow in the bed beside Dad
56:20
Speaker 1: Rob Reiner. Oh, my stars, that poor girl. Girl, oof.
56:26
Speaker 1: These are the facts as we know them, specifically about
56:31
Speaker 1: why Romy did not recognize that her mother was lying
56:34
Speaker 1: there in the bed as well. We wait as justice unfolds. God,
56:43
Speaker 1: please be with the Reiner family and all other crime
56:48
Speaker 1: victims that are suffering tonight. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.