Latest / Towing News Now / Unpacking the Towing World's Political Landscape with Bill Johnson

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Unpacking the Towing World's Political Landscape with Bill Johnson · Towing News Now

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome on and all to the American Tone Recovery Institute podcast.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Remember this is your podcast to promote safety, education, positive public relations and networking within the professional and business minded towing and recovery industry.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm your co-host, dj Harrington, better known as the toe doctor, and my other host is Wes Wilbur, over 40 year towing industry veteran, the founder of American Tone Recovery Institute of Fayetteville, north Carolina.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: He has produced and conducted training and certification programs for leading towing companies, equipment distributors, towing associations, dot, fire departments, rescue, as well as military installations across the United States.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Wes has been published over a hundred times in major towing publications.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Wes has developed many courses, including the most recent awareness level course for all responders that specialize in electric vehicles as well as hybrid, natural gas and hydrogen vehicles.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Wes has provided insight as the main speaker for over 30 years at more than 900 training classes and has been recognized as one of America's greatest towing trainers.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: He is well known for his straightforward but down-to-earth teaching styles.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Wes Wilbur and his American Tone Recovery staff has developed an electric vehicle phone app, wwwevdesclevercom, with over 700 passenger vehicles and over 100 heavy duty vehicles, bringing you a new level of convenience for information at your fingertips for all responders and their groups.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Without further ado, here's my dear friend and a great guy for our industry, wes Wilbur.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Thank you, dj.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: You're too kind with your words.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you, I appreciate that.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Hope you're doing good this morning.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I am doing excellent and now that we have that great guest coming on, that these listeners are going to really hear a man of our industry.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: So it's a great guest you have on today.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we absolutely were super excited about that.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: I guess I want to do my standard update, but I guess I'll start with.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Obviously, if you're not living under a rap somewhere and you're in the Tone industry, you know that there's been a big hoot that hooted.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know what.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Would you call it Donna Hoot, donna, donna Hoot, nanny.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: So a lot of discussion and he said this, they said that, and what are we going to do?
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Kind of situation.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so with the Federal Highway and Federal Trade Commission and a group called ATRI we'll talk about that for a quick second.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: The Tone Industry and Trucking Research Institute has issued a very long report, over 50 pages about basically everything that's wrong with the Tone industry.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: And again, that'll be our focus of the podcast.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Today We've got a great guest, bill Johnson with TRA.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: So a couple of things to talk about before we get Bill out here.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Dj, here's a problem I have.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure what to do with it.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Maybe you can offer me some advice.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: When we named the organization, I didn't really think about how many words there were American Tone and Recovery Institute, how long.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: It is challenging with different names of different organizations in the industry, kind of state different, et cetera.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: About a year ago we made a conscious decision to stick with American Tone and Recovery Institute but abbreviate our initials down to.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: ATRI and make that our logo and make that how we answer the phone.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: And just trying to shortcut it.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Now all of a sudden, as I look at the American Tone and Transportation Institute and hear people referring to them as the ATRI study the ATRI study I feel like my first order of business when I get back from my school in.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Louisiana.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: This weekend is changing the name of the organization.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: What?
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: do you think?
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: DJ.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Well, it depends.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: You know for so many years you have been Now, maybe you answered your phone.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: American Tone Recovery.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Institute and don't use these initials.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I guess, we got to go back to that.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, we have bigger problems than that, but that is something that's floated up.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of use of ATRI, and I just don't want people to get confused.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Well, tomorrow, leave at 5 am in the morning and get three-day class in Louisiana.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to it and excited about it when I get back from that we don't have anything going on for a couple weeks.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: We've got Charlotte for heavy duty class class of Charlotte, North Carolina, hosted by Hunters.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Hunters is one of the founding members of the Institute.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: We'll be there March 23rd and 24th.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: As we record this thing today, DJ it's class about half filled up Heavy duty Tone Recovery with rotator.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: And then also I don't want people to forget on March 6th we have a free webinar at 7 pm.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: We'll be doing that as well.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I've got a bunch of other dates that post out in the future, so we'll come back to them, let's go ahead and, I guess, have our first guest introduce himself and we'll start with talking about what's going on out there.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: I'm proud to present to some.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Introduce to others.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Bill Johnson serves as first vice president of the PRA, the National Telling Association.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Bill, do you mind introducing yourself?
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: How are you doing?
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: Thanks Wes, thanks DJ.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: Basically I'm just a tall guy out of Massachusetts that's been involved in the industry for 30 years now and I was past president for STA and legislative chairman for STA and legislative chairman for the TRA.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: So, bill, just real quick, yep.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Just real quick.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Statewide Tone Association just for folks that don't know is the second oldest Tone Association in the country.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I believe it started in the 50s.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Does that sound right, bill?
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: No, 1970.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: Oh, okay, I think California might be the oldest, I'm not sure.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: Or one of the associations Michigan, is it Michigan?
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Michigan is one.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: In your you all are.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Two is what I've always been.
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't, but to me it is what it is.
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: It's like it's just try to do your job.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I got you, just try to keep our listeners informed, no problem.
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: I don't know where you want to start with all this.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Well, why don't you give us your synopsis of what's going on for the listeners that doesn't know what's going on or maybe hasn't had time to digest the 58 days report?
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I know I haven't, so I'm about halfway through it.
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: Well, it's deeper than that.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: I have to go back to the fall of 2022.
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: And the Biden administration gave charge the FTC to regulate junk fees.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: And whatever it needs to remember is this proposed rule had to be approved by Congress and rulemaking and when you read the original rulemaking, it was for ticket master, overdraft fees assessed by banks, airline fees, resort fees, warranties, you know, like hidden, hidden fees Towing was never, never mentioned.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: Also, I've read there's a 66 page report from the federal register, volume number 88, number 86, that was put out November 9, 2023, on the proposed rules.
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: Towing was never mentioned.
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: So you have a lot of people in this industry running around yelling fire in the theater and they have no clue where the fire came from, or you know they're just hollering and they haven't done the due diligence.
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: So now, fast forward to February 7.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: So you gotta remember, right, this year, right.
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: So you gotta remember the start of the 22, with the FTC charge underneath the Biden administration.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Just real quick, bill.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: When did it start?
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: In 22?
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Did you give?
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: a month.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Fall of 22.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Fall of 22.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: No, I don't have a month.
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: I don't have an exact month.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Just fall of 22.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Just trying to put some perspective.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: So Toeing was never mentioned.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: So that's like somebody saying hey, wes, you did that recovery and that trucking company complained to the public authority about your recovery.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: Why didn't you stop them?
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: It's ludicrous to say that because it was never on the radar.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: You know, we know we have enemies, but we never know where they're gonna strike and when you follow something.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: So what are we gonna do?
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: Put a stop on the radar.
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: What are we gonna do?
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: Put a statement to FTC and say, hey, by the way, we know Toeing's not mentioned, but don't include us in this.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: So Toeing was never, never mentioned.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: So on February 7th, the last day, the Sue Lawless, who's an acting administrator, sends in this three-page, three-and-a-half-page letter.
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: Basically, you know that toers are the worst things since.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: You know whatever.
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: You know that were just all bad and blah, blah, blah.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: When you read the letter, this letter was not written by a bureaucrat, you know.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: So this was probably ghost-ridden by the ATA.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: That's my opinion.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: And Bill had one second point Just for a matter of record.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: We've invited Ms Lawless to come on the podcast.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: We've invited the ATRI, the American Transportation Group, on the podcast.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: We've also invited the Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg.
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: Buttigieg Pete Buttigieg.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: As of this moment, no response yet.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: We'll keep the listeners informed.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Sorry about the interruption.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Go ahead, bill oh no problem.
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: So February 7th this guy dropped.
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: We found out about it.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: Our lobbyist group either found out about that afternoon or the next day.
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: We called up the lobbyist, called up Larry Minor who is the policy and procedure guy, policy and regulation guy for the, you know, for the federal motor, for the USDOT.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: To ask him what the heck was going on.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: He did not know this letter was drafted, so you need to.
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: You gotta follow the votes, follow where the direction came from.
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: What we're finding out is this letter was authorized by the main guy at the legal guy at the DOT and it's a directive from Biden administration.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: You know Elizabeth Warren I don't know if you guys have seen she's a senator from Massachusetts here.
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: She's a senator from Massachusetts, here, wasn't she?
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: I will not say anything.
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: She can't be.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: I'm not gonna see anybody else.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, she's the right one.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: She's the right one.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: She, I'm not saying anything, Wes I just, I don't follow politics closely enough.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Obviously, I follow politics, gentlemen, period.
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: So yeah, so she did a post, basically on paraphrasing, but she did a post the very next day that said, you know, basically condemning the towing industry and you know that were predatory, blah, blah blah.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: And you know the Biden administration is aware of this, you know.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: So you gotta follow the votes.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: And the trucking association they usually they vote Republican.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: So remember, in the midterms in 2022, when Biden said he was gonna forgive all the student debt, yes, and everybody said this is illegally, can't do it.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: But how?
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: many votes did they get out of that?
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: There was 25 million people that went to that website.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: There was 16 million people that applied for forgiveness when they're student loan and there's something they couldn't do.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: And I hate to say it, as we dig into this and unravel this, this is what we're kind of find out.
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: This is kind of like a false flag.
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: The ATA.
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: They did a great job of a sneak attack.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: I've been telling a lot of people whether, depends what generation you're in, you can either call this a December 7th Pearl Harbor or October 7th Hamas attack on Israel.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: It's you know you have enemies, but this was unforeseen and nobody knew this was happening because towing was not mentioned.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: And number two, it is probably not even legal for what they're even talking about, because everybody remembers that Congress has ceded regulation of non-consensual towing to the states and local authorities.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: So how can the FTC now get ownership of that?
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: So there's a lot of layers to the onion we're unpeeling here.
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: The TRAA has been diligently working to unravel what's going on.
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: We've been working with our lobbyist group, tremont strategy group.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: We've been working with our attorneys Baker, donaldson, berman and Codwell and Berkowitz PC's and working, and there's been a lot of people in the industry, for whatever reason.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: All they're doing is going around hollering fire and they're not really.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: They're not taking, they're not trying to find where the fire's coming from, they're just fanning the flames.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: We as an industry I'm sure this will resonate with toers out there what happens when two toers are going at it in a community saying different things?
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: The public authorities shut down the elected.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: At the point of the authorities, they just stop listening.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: We've seen it happen with states that have two different associations.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: What happens?
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: The legislature doesn't listen, no more.
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: They just do whatever.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: So we as an industry need to be very careful on how we react to this, because if we have two, three different groups trying to resolve this and we don't have the same messaging, this is not going to bode well for anybody.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: This should be a wake-up call to the industry that we need to all be pulling the rope in the same direction and work together.
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: You know, I can assure you the TRAA is diligently working on this.
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: This is not something that anybody could have foreseen.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Yep, let's stop right there for a sec.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: I want to just take a moment, introduce and explain TRAA to some of our listeners.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: I'm sure a lot of them know who they are.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: I probably should give a disclaimer.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: We, the American Telling Recovery Institute, joined TRAA as a member in the fall last year.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever been a member before.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: It comes back to in the 90s, Grandmaster and TRAA battling out about certification.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: I was on the front line to that battle so many times.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: I didn't get treated fairly, and again at the turn of the century when I started out on my own, so that's why I stayed away from TRAA for many years.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Our staff decided it was in our best interest to join as a member.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: In the fall we did.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I will say I've always had an excellent relationship with Cindy Martin.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I was the executive director.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: She's always been super professional.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I always had a good I feel a good relationship with you as well, Bill.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: So I'm just putting it out there as to be fair about it.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: With all that being said, I believe we got to take a break, but when we come back and you start, to notice out about the history of TRAA, who you all are, and then we get into what your exact plans.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: are you good with that, Bill?
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: I'm here for you, wes Well, you too, dj, can't forget about you.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: That's a great blessing Bill.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Alright, guys, listeners Hangalyn will be right back after the break.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: Information in this podcast is made possible by generous sponsorship from Henry's Rekker, serving the community with quality towing and recovery for over 40 years.
• 18:26
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• 18:46
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• 18:56
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• 19:11
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• 19:21
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• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Welcome back listeners.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the American Tone and Submarines 2 podcast Wes Wilburn, dj Ehrington and our special guest Bill Johnson From t-r-a-a-a.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: I want to remind all of you every week we do our best to bring you new and formative episodes like this one with Bill Johnson.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Make sure you download and listen.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: We're available on Spotify, itunes, pandora, victor, iheartmedia, amazon or wherever you get your podcast.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: We got further ado.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I'm bringing on right on back to Wes.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Thank you, DJ.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I would like to thank our listeners as well.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: We definitely appreciate your support.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: Got a great interview today I want to come right back to Bill.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: We're just starting to introduce t-r-a-a Bill.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I know they were started, I guess, in the late 70s, and Howard Cough got a group of followers together in Kansas.
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: Tell us about t-r-a-a what they're at today, yeah.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: I believe t-r-a-a started in 1979.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: I'm not 100% sure.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: I said to me, you need to know history because if you don't, you're doomed to repeat it.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: But, with that being said, I always try looking forward, not backwards.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: I appreciate history but to me it's not important whether it's started in 1978, 79, or 77, whatever.
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: I think t-r-a-a has over the last decade, with Cindy Martino as the director and the new I don't want to say new, but different people involved.
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: We've really picked it up.
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: We've had the lobbying firm now, I think for three and a half years, psg, and that's really changed the direction of the t-r-a-a.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: We reimagined the Hill Day in DC and we've made huge strides to reach out to our elected officials.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: I think last year I'm going for my memory I think last year we met with 59 or 61 congressional and senatorial offices.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: It's been huge.
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: Like I said, to pivot back to this whole report from Susan Wallace to the FTC, towing wasn't on the radar at all, not in any of the proposed rules.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: I've run through the 66-page report that was in August, in October of last year, November of last year I apologize, november of last year.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: It was kind of like just a bombshell on this February 7th and we've been dealing with it.
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: We're working to get meetings with the appropriate staff at the federal motor carrier and the federal trade commission.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: You can't put a fire out to.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: You know where the origins are.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: That's what we really did.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: The first four or five days was really just kind of like okay, how did this happen?
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: Where did it come from?
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: We all know the ATA wants to destroy the towing industry.
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: They don't want to work with the towing industry, and same thing with OIDA.
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: Actually, probably a lot of your listeners don't know this, but Mike Matusik, who worked with OIDA, left OIDA and now is working for the ATA.
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: He was no friend of the industry.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: He wouldn't even listen to the issues within the industry.
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of false things in that report that Sulalis sent in, like how the heck can you have all your charges up front when you go to a wreck?
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: Is it leaking fuel, especially a truck wreck?
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: Is it leaking fuel?
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: Is the trailer loaded?
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: Is it empty?
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: Is the trailer compromised?
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: There's so many things.
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: There's no way you can give one price for everything.
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: We need to educate them.
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: Then, like I said, it gets back to what I said is, congress has ceded the authority to regulate non-consensual towing to the states and local government.
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: There's a legal issue here too.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: You're saying it would take an act of Congress to change this.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: Possibly that's one of the things we're looking at.
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: The other thing we need to remember is this is the banking.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: A lot of the people that are yelling the fire in the theater make it sound like this is going to be implemented next week.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: This is, at the minimum, probably six months out before anything happens.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I got a hold right there.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I grew up outside of Washington DC.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: I know some of these people that work as a federal government system.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Now, I'm not a huge political person but I do pay attention.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: They don't get anything done in six months up there that kind of split a hair I would say.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: So a couple different things here.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: You're saying six months to regulate.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: No, what I'm saying is that before this, any before the federal, it's going to be six months at a minimum before they weed through all the comments of this proposed ruling and come out with any thoughts to where it's going.
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: Okay, six months at a minimum, okay.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: And before they have to go through, so when they do, this gets back to.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: I forget.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: I think it was in the 70s or 80s Congress took away a lot of the federal trade commission's clout Because remember, do you remember in the 70s, when there was a nanny state, when that phrase got coined, that was a result of the federal trade commission and their overreach.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: So Congress pulled back on their authority on what they can do, and that's where they have to submit proposed rulemaking to Congress for approval, and towing was not even mentioned in that proposed rulemaking.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: So there's many different angles.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: This is getting looked at.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: It's getting looked at legally, where even they can do it, because the Congress has already ceded the authority to the states for not consensual.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: Then there's a question well, can they get involved with consensual towing Underneath the junk feed they're trying to propose?
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: Then there's a question of whether they even can add us on.
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: Am I the only one that finds this ironic?
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: Think about this.
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: The federal trade commission is puts out this proposed ruling because they want to get rid of hidden fees and junk fees and fees that are added on after the fact.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: But yet towing was not mentioned in any of the proposed rulings.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: And now, all of a sudden, they're going to add it on because an administrator submitted a letter in the last day of comments on February 7th.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: Am I the only one that finds the irony in that?
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: Here's this group that is tasked with saying that all these hidden fees, you have to be transparent to the consumer, but yet the bureaucracy doesn't have to be transparent and give for warning.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: So there's a lot of.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: I absolutely agree, Bill.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of it.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you cleared up the comment that the towing wasn't mentioned originally Because one of my first questions if we do get any of these interviews with the lady that wrote the letter, etc.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: One of my questions was going to be if this involved the towing industry and we were supposed to notify, give me one example where you told any towing-related organization or even towing company about it.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Obviously that number zero.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: But you explained why it was zero for a different reason.
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: Well, stephen, it gets deeper.
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: Wes the ATA like again.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: I believe it was back in 2000.
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, go ahead the.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: American Trucking Association Go ahead.
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: The ATA yes, I'm sorry, american Trucking Association.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: They had some sort of committee back in 2020, I believe it was that I was on.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: Actually, quinn Penning was on it and Jeffrey Godwin was on it.
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: I participated in two meetings and I said I'm not saying there's not any.
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: Maybe bad actors out there or some bills or maybe a lot of the towing wouldn't support I goes, please send me the carnage.
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: I want to see the tow bills.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: They sent me six tow bills out of like a three or four-year period.
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: The very next meeting I went through them and the biggest problem I saw with all of the tow bills was the lack of a proper narrative.
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: I think that's one thing that I need to get across to the towers throughout the country is, if we want to be treated like professionals, we need to act like professionals In the time.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: Write a narrative, explain what you did.
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: Don't just put truck rolled over, sent six trucks, ten guys, whatever.
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: Write a narrative explain, paint a picture in words of how you did that recovery and bill accordingly, support your rates.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: Whatever rates you have, make sure you can support it.
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: Like headsets, for example.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: When I bill out my headsets I submit a sheet.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: I show what the cost of the headsets were.
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: I do a ROI return on investment.
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: I called up the manufacturer.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: They said no less three years.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: I did the amount of times that I use them per year on average.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: Then I divided it up and I come with a price.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: I submit that documentation with the bill.
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: We as an industry, we have created a lot of these problems because we're all busy.
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: We don't take the time to do the due diligence and really dial into our numbers, to explain our numbers.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: We get frustrated when we get challenged on our numbers instead of taking the time to explain to them why you derived that.
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: Think about it.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: Some guy showed up and fixed your washing machine and sent you a bill Well fixed washer $683.
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: How would you feel?
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: You do want a little context to what you're getting billed for.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: That's one takeaway here.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: I think we as an industry the industry is matured we need to be treat-alike professionals, since the Tim's quick clearance has put a lot more pressure on us to have excess equipment, excess personnel to respond to these roadside incidents.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: We also we need to remember that if we start dividing ourselves, that old adage divide and conquer is going to take hold.
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: Think about that.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: What does anybody do?
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: They try to divide the people.
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: Whether it's you look back through you're talking about history, wes look back through history through any dictator they try to divide the people.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: If our industry gets divided, we're going to lose.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: We need to keep that in mind.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: I can assure everybody the TRAA is the voice of the towers.
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: We do have a handle on this issue.
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: We are making, doing the right moves.
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: We're getting appointments with the proper people at the US DOT, the FM, the Federal Motor Carriers.
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: We're trying to get a point with the FTC and we're working on getting this resolved through multiple angles through the legal challenge we have to, politically and through the administrative side.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: I have to tell you, one of the reasons that we did join the TRAA this past fall was because it does appear they have a tow hold on intended and politics in Washington DC.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Again growing up in that area, it's very hard to do.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: I think that's one of the things that the TRAA offers as the TRAA goes forward.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: What are the forward-thinking plans, bill?
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: It gets back to what I'm in and I guess this will do a little sales pitch.
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: Everybody says there's what?
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: I've heard different numbers.
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: Everybody says there's what?
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: 30,000 towers out there in the country.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Somewhere between 30 and 40,000,.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know how you believe.
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: Right, I always like to look at conservatives.
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: Or let's just say there's 25,000.
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: We don't have and this is I think this goes back through state associations national association.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: The toers are not getting involved.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: The toers do not understand the value of association, you know.
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: Think about any state association.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: They're all struggling for membership and the national association is also.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: I mean, we should have the national association, should have four or five thousand members.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: So, bill, tell me, how much is TRA membership for the, for a towing company, let's say Five hundred dollars a year.
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: It's money well spent.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: And an associate member.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I believe that's what we are.
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: I believe.
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: I believe that was six hundred dollars a year, but I'm not a hundred percent sure.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I think DJ piped in it is six hundred, correct, dj?
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I want to tell all our listeners just go online to traaonlinecom.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: It tells you everything about the five hundred dollars right on down to an affiliate member.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: No, how much is an affiliate DJ?
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Affiliate runs five hundred to a thousand two hundred a county year.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Now everybody got to remember.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Traa is a non-profit, so it's a 501c6, and every time you give a nickel to traa it's tax deductible.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: That's another crazy thing that coars don't take advantage of.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I just want to clarify one thing.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: You're not getting paid.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: You're a volunteer, aren't you Bill?
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: All the cabinet members.
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: The only traa only has two paid employees.
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: That's the executive director and then the I don't know the fancy name of the media and fulfillment for the certification programs.
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: There's only two paid positions.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: Everybody else works for free.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: And the other thing I want to mention is the lobbyist has been paid by contributions from members.
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: There's not enough money in the budget to pay for the lobbyist, so I don't like myself.
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: I committed I think I forget what that was.
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: I think it was nine thousand dollars over three years, and many other people have stepped up and contributed to this.
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: So that's why I guess I get a little frustrated with these people that are going around yelling fire in the theater, and I'd be guaranteed I don't think any of those, or many of them, have donated to the tra lobbyist fund.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: I don't know how many are members of the traa and a lot of people.
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: It gets back to what you said, wes, that I'm not trying to rub salt in an old wound.
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: You know what are you saying in the beginning of the show.
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: You didn't get involved with tra because you had bad feelings because of what happened 20 years ago or 25 years ago with training and certification and everything that transpired through there and I can guarantee you that some of these people that are trying to create issues right now, they harbor, I bet you, if you look back in their history.
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: They harbor ill feelings to the traa and it's not about what is best for the industry, it's just their personal vendetta.
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: That's the only conjecture.
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: I'm not mentioning any names, but I guarantee you, if you look back in the history, there's a couple of those.
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: I think some of the people it's kind of like.
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: You know people get involved and they get involved and they hear something and they don't have the time to.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: So it's whoever gets the message to them first sometimes is where they go with the blue.
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: But all I can do is ensure everybody the traa is working diligently on this issue.
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: We have the lobbyist firm, we have the attorney firm, we have the ears of the traa and the agency is involved and we're setting up meetings and we're working on it.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: It was a shock to all and I'm not going to sit here and say, oh, you know, I was very surprised when this happened because it was never mentioned.
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: It was never none of the proposed rulings.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that really changes.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: You know how many doubt look on that.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Knowing those facts, let's take a quick break.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after the break listeners.
• 38:41
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• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Welcome back listeners.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the American Tone Recovery Institute podcast Wes Wilburn, dj Harrington and our special guest, bill Johnson, the vice president of TRAA.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Please remember to like, review and share everywhere.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: And if you want another industry expert like a Bill Johnson to be on this podcast, dial the hotline number 706-4095603 here in the studio and Wes Wilburn will do his very best to get that industry expert on the line with you.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Wes, I'll turn it over to you.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you, yeah Bill.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Your current position as first vice president and also head of the legislative committee is that correct?
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: And, as I understand it, you're running for president unopposed at this point.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: That is also correct.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: So, more than likely, you're the leadership that will be in place.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: How long of a term is that?
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: Two years.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just going to play around and do it more than one time.
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: Yes, one cannot always predict the future, but yes, Okay, yeah, All right just want to make one quick comment.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Part of why I changed my mind and got involved with the TRA a few months ago was listening to Michelle DJ.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Helped me with her last name, Zuko.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: Her podcast that she did on attending legislative day and that's coming up in March, isn't it?
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: Yes, march 5th through, I believe, the 7th.
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: Yes, you can go up online traaonlinecom and check it out.
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: I know it's getting full.
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: We had to move hotels because it's grown so much from last year and we appreciate the support.
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: That's what we need.
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: We need grassroots support.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: We need more.
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: When you go to, when you speak to public officials, you can say we represent so many companies, x amount of companies.
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: That carries weight.
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: So it's really important that people get involved.
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: And the other thing I want to I know we're kind of getting tight on time One thing I want to mention is the TRAA is the only entity, the only association recognized by, I believe, three federal agencies the DOT, the Highway Safety and I can't remember what the federal highway, I believe the Highway Safety and the National Highway Safety Board.
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: Just the two.
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: I can't remember the third one, but you know we're the only bottom line, we're the only association recognized by the federal government and that carries weight when we're trying to get appointments here with the various groups on this issue, on any issue.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Absolutely Well.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: We definitely appreciate you coming on sharing the information with us.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Can we write you back sometimes if things progress, to keep us up to date.
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: Sure, I mean, I hope I did.
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: It's such a.
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: It's a deep issue and it's hard to try to par it down to this type of a conversation because there's just a lot going on.
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: But I, like I said again, I'm repeating myself, but I want to assure the Towers out there that the TRAA is working diligently on this.
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: We will get it resolved and I think I'm hoping that the industry becomes stronger out of this and unites and that we don't divide ourselves.
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: I can't agree strongly enough the whole part of a conversation that I wanted to have that we didn't get to is I'm not so sure.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: This isn't a good thing, because if some kind of regulation does come along, if they're going to regulate prices, they got to look at doing a proper price study.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: I truly believe in my heart that if a proper price study was done on what it takes to run a profitable excuse me a professional telling business pay your employees a living wage, run safe trucks, pay your taxes, etc.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: I believe if we looked at all those numbers the public would realize what a deal they're getting now on services.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: And of course, there's a whole nother argument about prices.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Some of these big recoveries are so big because of the ones that don't pay.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: So I think there's all kinds of good things to be looked at from this Bill.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Could we get you back and address some of those issues maybe?
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, most certainly, wes.
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: I'm very transparent.
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: That's one thing you brought up.
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: I said this so deep.
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: The TRA requested the federal government through I believe it's the AGO, the account of there's so many acronyms out there but we requested a study to be done because we heard rumblings about remember the Van Hollen bill where they're trying to re-regulate towing.
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: The TRA worked to kill that and we said we need to do a study.
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: Everybody's saying there's problems, but please show us the problems.
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: The only person saying there's a problem is the people paying, which that's always nobody likes to pay.
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: So we asked for a study.
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: That was that never took hold.
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: We asked for it I believe it's the AGO, is the agency and that was never done.
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: So we have that.
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: There's a lot going on, wes.
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: There really is.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: So we'll have you back and I want to cut them off, but we do have to go up against the heartbreak the next couple episodes.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: We have some other groups coming on to talk about this, so we're we're going to be focused here.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Bill, I can't thank you enough for your time and we'll look forward to having you back on.
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: No, I thank you guys for the opportunity to explain this, this, this issue, which is very important to us all.
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Thank you, dj, take us home, buddy.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Wes.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I want to remind everybody that t r a a represents all 50 states, the territories, over 35,000 members.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: We have over 210,000 commercial vehicles and we employ over 350,000 towing families and t r a a represents every one of them.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Started in Kansas City back in 1979.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: T r a a is the voice of the industry and everybody should be a member.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: That's how I'm going to end this and build Johnson.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: From the bottom of my heart, I thank you for everything you've done for this industry and put what you've done for the United States, and I look forward to seeing everybody on the next podcast of the American Tone Recovery Institute.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: See you next week.