Latest / Masculine Containment / 14 - Cal Misener on Nervous System Regulation, Masculine Containment, and Becoming the Calmest Man in the Room

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14 - Cal Misener on Nervous System Regulation, Masculine Containment, and Becoming the Calmest Man in the Room · Masculine Containment

• 0:00
  Discovering and practicing the discipline of masculine containment has completely and totally changed my life and my relationship for the better.
• 0:07
  I didn't know it could be this good.
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  When I started teaching this to other men, I hope it would be the same way, that it would be a practice that made things easier, that made us more present, more aware.
• 0:17
  more able to deal with what life throws at us.
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  And I recently got to sit down with one of our second container members, Cal Meisner, and he shared his experience of understanding masculine containment.
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  And this was relatable and exciting.
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  And I learned so much from sitting down with him.
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  And I think you will too.
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  I hope that this recording affects you as much as it did me.
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  and that you feel his genuine transformation and excitement about this new discipline of masculine containment, then I'm confident he's going to be practicing for the rest of his life.
• 0:48
  Here's Cal Meisner.
• 0:51
  Today, it is my honor to have a member of the Brotherhood, the second container, Cal Meisner with me.
• 0:57
  Cal, thank you so much for joining the podcast.
• 0:59
  I'm excited to be here, Alex.
• 1:01
  Looking forward to our conversation.
• 1:03
  I've been excited about this all week, Cal.
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  So let's jump in.
• 1:08
  Before the Brotherhood, what was going on for you?
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  I think something that continues to come up for me and with clients that I work with and in many conversations, it was all around nervous system regulation.
• 1:24
  And I was like, to be frank, I didn't even really know what that meant.
• 1:27
  But I just thought, how do you, this is my interpretation of it is, how do I just stay calm?
• 1:34
  Like as a man in particular, whether that's in a business setting and with my family, like friends, whatever it is.
• 1:41
  Because I think we all have triggers, right?
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  We all have things that can set us off.
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  And so I was really intrigued with this idea of regulating one's nervous system, right?
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  How do you not get so triggered?
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  How do you stay calm even when maybe inside you don't feel that way?
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  And so I was looking for opportunities to do that.
• 2:00
  And then when I saw, you know, your post about the brotherhood, that sounds like exactly what I'm after.
• 2:07
  Like that's what I want to work on.
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  Can you tell me a little bit about what was going on and what wasn't working in your life or relationships that made you want to focus on central nervous system regulation?
• 2:19
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:20
  Great question.
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  Thank you.
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  And I think, you know, I've shared this a little bit, but I have quite an amazing relationship with my partner.
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  I feel really blessed to be with her and to have the relationship we have.
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  And quite literally before joining this call, we just had a little morning check-in and we were talking about it.
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  Sometimes it drives her crazy when I use percentages, but I'd say 85% of things are amazing, maybe even 90.
• 2:47
  And yet we still have this uncanny ability to trigger each other.
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  Right?
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  And I'm not going to speak to her experience, but my experience, there's certain things that she does where I just get...
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  I just get triggered.
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  I get... And one of them, here's an example.
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  She has a lot of passion.
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  She's very feisty, which is one of the things I love about her.
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  And I think, you know, in working through it now from my childhood and from some trauma that I experienced, you know, I experienced some violence and some feeling at a very young age not safe.
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  And so anger, for example, was something that it's still...
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  I'm grateful for the progress I've made.
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  It's got a much lesser grip on me now.
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  But there were times when I would experience if someone's angry, I literally viscerally would feel that in my body.
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  And I would feel like, whoa, like I'm not safe.
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  And so...
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  Speaking to, again, to her and her passion, and it's one of the things she's a bit of a social warrior.
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  She fights for the underdog.
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  And the way that comes out sometimes is it's very passionate.
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  And in my experience of that, sometimes it's anger.
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  And it is anger.
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  I think it's justified anger.
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  But that landed in my body in a way that I would get, like I would shake and then I would withdraw and I would like feel unsafe.
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  And I'm like, whoa.
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  And then start really questioning, should I even be in this relationship?
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  Like is this, and I now see it's literally my wounded child saying, I don't think I'm safe.
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  I need to exit.
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  And so that was something that I really wanted to work on, right?
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  Because again, the 85% is amazing.
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  And that there's this part where I was still feeling triggered and activated.
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  And I'm a bit of a geek in terms of human behavior and why people do the things they do, in particular myself, right?
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  Why am I doing that?
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  I really want to dive into that.
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  And so...
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  That's something that was happening prior to joining the Brotherhood and then going through the work with you and the, you know, the full container and the full experience.
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  I feel like I have so much more insight into that and knowledge.
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  And it's not just knowledge.
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  It's like somatic experience with being able to release knowledge.
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  it's hold on me, if that makes sense.
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  So when... No, it totally makes sense.
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  Literally, we had some things happen over the weekend, a little bit, some stressful family stuff going on and whatever, and yes, it came up, but my reaction was way less severe.
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  And I think most importantly, like I said, literally just before getting on this call, we had a conversation and...
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  And it's so cool to be able to say, hey, you know, this is what happened.
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  My stuff came up.
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  Here's what I was experiencing.
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  I apologize.
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  I probably withdrew a bit.
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  I did this.
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  And...
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  But I'm working through that and being able to even speak to that, right?
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  To name it and speak to what's happening and be not only aware, but have the tools to say, ah, something's coming up for me.
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  My nervous system's getting a little activated, but it's okay.
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  I have the tools to deal with it.
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  Take us in that previous experience, Cal, like just so that men can see themselves in it.
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  What was it like for you day to day prior to understanding that stuff?
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  It was like...
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  Again, getting triggered for whatever the behavior.
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  In my case, it was probably two things.
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  One is perceived anger.
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  It was difficult for me.
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  Another one that, and I think many men experience this, is avoidance, right?
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  So meaning she will often, she's incredibly passionate about a number of things and she'll get really focused on something.
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  Like she's doing her master's work, for example, right now.
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  I may not hear from her for six, eight, ten hours, twelve hours, right?
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  And for her, that's just, she's just like in her zone doing her thing.
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  But there's a part of me that, you know, would have this reaction.
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  Like, what's wrong?
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  Why am I not hearing from her?
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  And that feeling again of not feeling safe in the relationship.
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  And knowing that, now knowing at least, that that all comes again from trauma.
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  It's a slightly different one, I think, than what triggers the way I feel when I experience anger.
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  Yeah.
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  But it's this feeling of anxious attachment, right?
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  If I don't hear from, especially the person in my primary relationship, the person that I'm most connected to in this world, if I don't hear from her, then I just would get anxious.
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  I would shake.
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  I would get, yeah, I would be...
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  it would just really disturbing, really would just really throw me off my scent.
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  I'm normally, I think, a pretty grounded, centered Zen dude, and all of a sudden I'm not, right?
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  And the crazy thing is, is having awareness isn't enough.
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  It's like, oh, wow, I can see what's happening, but I can't stop it, right?
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  And no matter how much I want to, it's still happening, right?
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  It's still, but the cool thing again is now,
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  The distinction now is I can see it and I have some tools to deal with it, namely like breathing and a lot of the exercises that we talk about.
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  And then I think it's the duration of those moments has decreased significantly, right?
• 8:31
  Still happen, still get triggered.
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  Yeah.
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  But it's, it's, the recovery time is way faster now.
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  It's like, okay, see what's happening.
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  And maybe, you know, some of the things we talk about, even just going for a walk, right?
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  How do you, what are the tools you use to regulate yourself?
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  And the cool thing, again, is being so much more conscious of things and then having the tools at your disposal.
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  Say, ah, okay, okay.
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  I see there my human is doing its thing again.
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  All right, I'm going to go for a walk.
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  I'm just going to do some breathing, right?
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  I'm going to take some time out and just quiet myself down and come back to being grounded and come back to being present.
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  So good, Cal.
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  It's so relatable.
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  I can feel I get body reactions as you're describing it because so much of that was happening for me.
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  Like I've actually told people 85 percent was awesome.
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  15 percent was a challenge.
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  So it's funny.
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  Is that so prior to the brotherhood?
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  Was there a breaking point or a moment or or something that caused you to say like something needs to change?
• 9:33
  I don't think there was like some really acute breaking point, but it was more of, I just didn't want to feel that way.
• 9:40
  I wanted to feel, I mean, I'm on a relentless pursuit of my own happiness and healing and growth and control.
• 9:54
  And I hesitated a bit to even use the word because it's not like I want to be controlling.
• 9:58
  Yeah.
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  But I want to have control over myself, my emotions.
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  I never want to react.
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  I want to respond.
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  Like if something throws me off, like I don't want to respond in haste or anger myself.
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  I want to like, okay, just take a moment here and respond, you know, in a mature way.
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  And so, again, there was no acute event for me like I blew up or I hit someone or anything like that.
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  But it was like, no, I just, it was more of an area that I need to focus on this.
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  It keeps coming up.
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  I've done all the work.
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  And yet, and here's the thing too, like, and I know you and I share this is I have done a lot of work on myself.
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  And of course, being a coach, I help others with a whole host of things.
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  But knowing this stuff isn't enough because it's visceral, it's embedded, it's somatic, it's in your body, right?
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  And so I guess that was the part that really motivated me is, hey, like I know this stuff.
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  And yet I'm still triggered and thrown off and discombobulated for the entire day because of this one event.
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  I'm like, yeah, no, that has to change.
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  Yeah.
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  I need to dig deeper into that.
• 11:19
  No, man, I so appreciate your level of introspection.
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  It's like, especially as a coach, because you know the strategy, but when you can't apply it yourself, that's like this, you know, it's like this is the work, you know.
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  1,000%, yes.
• 11:34
  So you were a member of our second container.
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  What made you decide to join the Brotherhood?
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  You already gave us a little bit of insight, but what was the deciding factor?
• 11:43
  Yeah.
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  Um, okay, don't let this go to your head, Alex.
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  But a big part of it was you.
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  I mean, we've known each other, I think, since 2019.
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  And I trust you.
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  And I think also the, you know, I followed you on social media for some time.
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  And I think I mentioned this, but when you started talking about masculine containment and the way that you had spoken about it was a way that I'd never heard anyone else on the planet
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  frame this.
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  And it just landed with me.
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  It's like, yeah, that.
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  So back to where was I at?
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  What was I thinking?
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  I was thinking about nervous system regulation.
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  I was thinking about how do I not get triggered the way that I used to or the way that I have been.
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  And so there was just something the way that you were speaking to your journey and what you had learned about being a contained man.
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  And
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  And responding, not reacting.
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  And I was like, yeah, it just really resonated with me.
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  Thanks, Cal.
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  I appreciate it.
• 12:49
  What were you afraid would happen if you didn't change something or if you didn't step into something new?
• 12:56
  Well, again, I didn't want to feel the way that I was feeling being triggered all the time.
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  I shouldn't say all the time.
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  But when it happened, here's the other thing that I experienced is back to the 85%.
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  85%, especially in my relationship, is brilliant.
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  But the 15%, when it happened, when I'm feeling triggered, it overshadows all of the goodness.
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  And you just forget it all, right, until you can come back.
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  And so I just thought...
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  No, this isn't on, man.
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  How do you have all this incredible connection and, you know, like this relationship that is just unbelievable and then it's not?
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  Like that's, there's something wrong here.
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  There's something that needs to be addressed because it can't, the 15% can't instantly overshadow the 85%.
• 13:54
  So relate, Cal.
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  So once you were in the brotherhood, what did you actually start doing differently?
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  What was the work for you?
• 14:04
  Oh, it's extensive, but a few things.
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  Like one, I'm a huge believer in like awareness.
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  I'm going to use one of my percentages again, but awareness is 85% of the solution, right?
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  Just being aware of things is like, then you have the opportunity to...
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  to reflect, to go, to go inside, to, to change your perspective or consider another perspective that maybe you hadn't.
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  So just that awareness.
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  And so, you know, some of the awarenesses, if that's a term that I, that I, that I gained in the container was take it.
• 14:43
  We'll take it if it's not a word it is now.
• 14:45
  Um,
• 14:47
  One of them, you know, you talked about this very early on, and we talked about this in the container, but the idea of men and women having a very different experience, sorry, in this world in terms of safety, right?
• 15:02
  And one thing we talked about is there, and it just landed, and it just landed with me again just thinking about it, is many women have not felt safe perhaps ever.
• 15:16
  Right?
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  And having to go through life not feeling safe, always being on guard, always watching your surroundings.
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  Like, we as men don't have to do that as a rule.
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  And so that one, I say, little insight, it was a huge insight.
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  It's like, holy shit.
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  Like, now I just see the world in a way different way.
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  And knowing that...
• 15:47
  Yeah, knowing that most women don't experience safety in the same way that we do, it just gave me so much insight into what I can do as a man to help impact that, to create safe spaces, to stay calm and grounded, and to help create safety for others.
• 16:08
  Cal, I can see there's some emotions coming up for you.
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  And first, I just want to say I'm honored, brother, with...
• 16:15
  your trust and, and letting them come up with me, but where are they coming from?
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  What's that?
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  The, the emotion?
• 16:22
  Yeah.
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  Just that, uh, I'm talking about awareness again.
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  I, I, I just feel so deeply for, for the women of this planet that have not been able to feel safety.
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  And largely, you know, some of my brothers on this planet may not like this comment, but it's largely at the hands of men, mostly.
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  And so when that, having that insight was like, whoa, but it literally changed my perspective of the world.
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  Right?
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  It's like, wow, this is, this is not cool.
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  And as a man that I consider myself, I wouldn't say enlightened, but on the path to understanding, I have an obligation to be better.
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  And I have an obligation to other men as well, and to women, to change conversations, right?
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  To share this awareness.
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  So what I found, one of the things that...
• 17:31
  as a result of being in the container with you and the brotherhood, I'm now sharing that with other men all the time.
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  And I'll, you know, I can't think of a specific example, but someone said, well, why does she, like, why is she so upset about that?
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  And I'm saying, hey, brother, have you ever considered that, like, she might feel like her life is on the line, literally, and it probably is.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  How do men respond when you share that, Cal, when you share with them the level of lack of safety and vulnerability that women feel?
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  Because you're doing it from, it sounds like this has landed in your body.
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  This feeling is now embodied with you.
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  How do other men react when you share that?
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  There's a variety of reactions, but one of the, and I'm going to back up for one second, but as a coach, I think...
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  if I'm in a session with a client and I ask them a question and they say, wow, that's a really good question.
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  I feel like I've done my job, right?
• 18:28
  I've given someone a perspective that maybe they didn't otherwise have.
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  And so in one flavor or another, that is typically part of the reaction at least.
• 18:38
  Men say, oh yeah, wow.
• 18:39
  I hadn't really considered that or wow.
• 18:41
  Yeah.
• 18:41
  You know, I've,
• 18:43
  I guess when I walk to my car in the parkade at night, I don't really have to carry pepper spray and my keys in my hand to defend myself.
• 18:50
  I hadn't thought about that.
• 18:52
  That alone, sharing that awareness, I think, is massive, right?
• 18:57
  Because, you know, like we've discussed, I don't think many men have that perspective.
• 19:04
  Yeah.
• 19:05
  No, I don't think as men we will ever truly understand what it's like to be a woman walking around in this world.
• 19:11
  But we can understand so much more.
• 19:12
  And I appreciate that you're sharing it with other men because I think it's one of those life insights.
• 19:16
  Like you said, it changes your perception of the world.
• 19:19
  Yeah.
• 19:19
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:21
  So let's talk about what shifted for you, Cal.
• 19:25
  We spent 10 weeks together in this Brotherhood container.
• 19:28
  You were there, I think, on every call and one of the most active members we had.
• 19:32
  I can't tell you how honored I was by that.
• 19:34
  But tell me about the shift.
• 19:36
  What's different now?
• 19:40
  Again, I feel like I'm not sure where to even start.
• 19:42
  But I feel like I feel so much more comfortable in my own skin.
• 19:52
  I feel like I'm literally a better human being because of it.
• 19:59
  I feel like I'm more compassionate.
• 20:01
  I'm more empathetic.
• 20:05
  I feel like I'm more grounded, which was part of my goal.
• 20:09
  I feel like specifically in my relationship, I've seen some pretty big shifts.
• 20:18
  Tell us about those.
• 20:20
  just feeling like...
• 20:24
  So back to this idea, I think, of most women not experiencing safety.
• 20:29
  And I feel like when I can stay grounded and centered and present and create safety, I actually become magnetic, which is a very unexpected thing, right?
• 20:44
  And so when...
• 20:46
  I'll give you an example.
• 20:48
  But thinking about physical intimacy.
• 20:51
  I realized that it's something that I, you know, having sex with my partner is something that I love to do, of course.
• 21:00
  But I was...
• 21:02
  Same here.
• 21:02
  Yeah.
• 21:04
  I think that's healthy.
• 21:06
  But I had an expectation around it, almost a demand of it.
• 21:12
  And she had spoken to this in the past, but I didn't really understand where she was coming from.
• 21:20
  And I was almost like, I was, I was defensive.
• 21:22
  I'm like, well, yeah, I mean, I desire you.
• 21:25
  You're my partner.
• 21:25
  Like, shouldn't I desire you?
• 21:26
  Shouldn't I?
• 21:28
  I think it's a good thing that I chase you around and always desire you.
• 21:31
  And she was like, yeah, but like you, it feels like it comes with pressure, right?
• 21:37
  Like you have an expectation always that we're going to be intimate.
• 21:42
  And what if I'm not feeling it?
• 21:43
  Or what if, how, what if I had the opportunity to initiate or...
• 21:49
  And so I thought, ah, that's okay.
• 21:51
  Okay.
• 21:52
  Again, I'm trying to listen.
• 21:53
  I'm trying to grow.
• 21:54
  I'm trying to be better.
• 21:55
  I said, okay.
• 21:57
  But what I found is the more that I could stay grounded, centered, present, and not have any expectations, the more intimacy we had.
• 22:09
  And I was like, okay, this is...
• 22:11
  It's such a dichotomy.
• 22:13
  This is something.
• 22:15
  I did not sign up for this, but I am so glad I'm here.
• 22:20
  You know, it's interesting.
• 22:21
  I share that with men all the time that and I'd like you just if you can reflect on this a little bit.
• 22:26
  You know, one of the things I tell men is the less expectation you have around intimacy, the less pressure you're putting around intimacy, the more it shows up.
• 22:36
  And it's hard to trust that at first.
• 22:37
  Like a lot of men tell me like, Alex, you're crazy.
• 22:40
  But how did that work for you, Cal?
• 22:41
  Yeah.
• 22:43
  You're right in that it is hard to trust that because it seems counterintuitive.
• 22:49
  Completely.
• 22:50
  And back to, that's why I love this work we are doing so much is it's not well known.
• 22:58
  It kind of goes against the grain of what we've been taught as men.
• 23:02
  And so, yeah, I like that.
• 23:04
  I'm a contrarian anyway.
• 23:05
  So like doing things in a contrary fashion appeals to me.
• 23:10
  But when you do it and you have a, you know, a result like this, it's like, ah, there's, okay, this is very cool.
• 23:16
  And so thinking about, and, and, and, you know, when you sit with it and experience it for a while, it just makes perfect sense.
• 23:25
  Yeah.
• 23:26
  Right?
• 23:26
  It's like, forget all about intimacy for a moment, but if someone's coming at you and they're very demanding and they want something and it's kind of like that grabby energy, you're like, whoa, dude, settle down, man.
• 23:38
  Let's have a conversation.
• 23:41
  Right?
• 23:41
  And so the minute that there's no expectation any longer, there's just openness and presence.
• 23:48
  then there's room for, well, for intimacy, but it's magnetic in every way, I believe.
• 23:54
  It's not just intimacy.
• 23:56
  Sorry, I got weird sunshine coming through the window here.
• 23:58
  No worries.
• 24:00
  You know, I've also found that even in business, things are different.
• 24:06
  I feel like I'm more magnetic in that regard as well.
• 24:11
  You know, one of the things I was inspired by as part of the container, I've been thinking about doing a retreat for men for some time.
• 24:18
  And so I was inspired through the work we were doing was to say, okay, forget waiting, just get on it.
• 24:25
  And I feel like
• 24:27
  there's been this really wild shift in that when I speak about the work, this work and how passionate I am and the retreat and the experience that I think men will have people, I just got a text literally before this call saying someone else just signed up for the retreat.
• 24:41
  I don't even know this person.
• 24:42
  Congratulations.
• 24:45
  But I feel like that's part of it's, it's similar, right?
• 24:47
  It's like when you,
• 24:49
  When you can be grounded and present and okay with yourself and not triggered and not anxious and not needy, then things start to flow your way.
• 25:00
  Cal, you shared that, and again, so relatable, you shared that before you did this work...
• 25:06
  Sometimes you would feel anxious during the day.
• 25:09
  Sometimes you would feel like triggered from escalating emotions.
• 25:13
  Tell us what those things are like now because intimacy is so important.
• 25:16
  But like day-to-day just living your life, how is it now?
• 25:21
  I feel way more at peace.
• 25:24
  Isn't peace amazing?
• 25:26
  Oh, peace is, I also realize at my age, let me rephrase that.
• 25:31
  At this stage of my life, peace is a very critical component to me.
• 25:37
  And there was a time when I chased money and stature and title and I got all those things and I didn't feel much different.
• 25:47
  But now peace is the thing that like, it just does it for me.
• 25:52
  The more peaceful I can, and I really think, the more peaceful I can be and calm and grounded, the better I make the planet.
• 26:00
  The better I am for everyone around me.
• 26:03
  You know, we talk about something in the book,
• 26:05
  in the brotherhood, and you've talked about this for years, is the calmest man in the room wins.
• 26:10
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:10
  And it's not so much about winning, per se, but it's about if you don't lose your stuff...
• 26:17
  you know, it's just a better place to be.
• 26:19
  And so I considered myself, like I said, pretty grounded, a pretty Zen dude, but still anxious and still getting triggered.
• 26:29
  And since doing this work, that's just, it's decreased so dramatically that, again, the peace and calm in my life is pretty exceptional right now.
• 26:41
  So I think when some men hear peace, they're going to hear like, oh, he's not doing anything.
• 26:46
  He's just sitting around feeling peaceful.
• 26:49
  But one of the things I share with men is once you understand the discipline, the martial art like discipline of masculine containment, that it increases your capacity to do just about everything.
• 27:00
  Can you speak to that a little bit, Cal?
• 27:02
  Yeah.
• 27:03
  Yeah, thank you for the question and for that distinction.
• 27:05
  And, you know, one thing that I've developed, refined, I should say, as part of being in the container is my morning ritual.
• 27:16
  One of the things that I do, and I do even more consistently now, is practice Qigong.
• 27:22
  which is, for those that don't know, similar to Tai Chi.
• 27:25
  It's more of an inner art, inner martial art.
• 27:28
  And to your point, it's another one of those crazy dichotomies.
• 27:33
  The calmer I get, the more grounded, the more centered, the more at peace, the more powerful I become.
• 27:39
  Yeah.
• 27:40
  The more of a warrior I am.
• 27:43
  And so to your point is, for some man, peace might sound like wishy-washy or like, oh, wow, now you're all kumbaya and that's fantastic, but you're not accomplishing anything.
• 27:55
  It's like, actually, in my experience, the opposite is true.
• 27:59
  The quieter and calmer I get, the more I accomplish.
• 28:03
  And in particular, from a creative point of view, like I literally...
• 28:10
  And since being in the container, like I purposely cleared a lot of stuff out of my life just to be as quiet as I could and do the work and focus on what's going on inside of me and my own growth and the nervous system regulation I spoke of.
• 28:28
  And what I found, which is so cool, is in that quietness is where all the great ideas come from.
• 28:35
  Right?
• 28:35
  Like I'd be quiet, I'd be doing my morning practice down by the river, by my little farm here on Vancouver Island.
• 28:40
  And I'll say, whoa, that's cool.
• 28:45
  And that's a great idea.
• 28:46
  I'm going to go pursue that.
• 28:49
  But it's doing so with discernment, right?
• 28:51
  It's like if you're busy and you're scattered and you're running around and your nervous system's on overdrive and you're fried, in my experience, you don't get those same downloads.
• 29:00
  You don't get that same clarity.
• 29:03
  Yeah.
• 29:03
  I often tell men that, you know, most of us are running so fast, we run right by intuition and inspiration and miss it.
• 29:12
  Yes.
• 29:12
  And it sounds like, you know, I'm also a devout practicer of Qigong.
• 29:17
  I've been a martial artist my whole life, but I love Qigong more than anything because it's so internal.
• 29:22
  But it's amazing.
• 29:23
  Same thing for me.
• 29:24
  So often I'll be doing this very internal practice and literally have to stop and write something down because it's such a big download or a huge intuition or inspiration.
• 29:33
  It sounds like you're getting the same thing.
• 29:35
  Totally is.
• 29:36
  Totally is.
• 29:39
  And again, that's one of those counterintuitive things, I think, especially for men and especially in this culture, right?
• 29:46
  When all you hear is hustle and grind and do more and...
• 29:49
  And you being the provider, like you've got to go, go, go and do, do, do.
• 29:53
  It's like that is freaking exhausting, man.
• 29:58
  So exhausting.
• 29:59
  A, it's exhausting.
• 30:00
  And B, being busy is not the same as being productive.
• 30:05
  Like they're two wildly different things.
• 30:08
  I used to have a gentleman that worked for me and every morning I would see him and every morning I'd say, Darrell, how are you doing?
• 30:12
  And every morning I get the same response.
• 30:13
  Oh, busy, busy, busy, busy.
• 30:16
  And I'm like, what does that even mean?
• 30:18
  Like, what?
• 30:19
  Right?
• 30:19
  Like, I don't get that.
• 30:20
  And so, but again, I think that was his way of demonstrating that he's being productive.
• 30:24
  Like, I'm doing something.
• 30:26
  Yeah, it's like a badge of honor.
• 30:28
  That's right.
• 30:29
  Yeah.
• 30:29
  Yeah.
• 30:29
  And it's so counterintuitive.
• 30:31
  But the, back to, I'm going to say it again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record.
• 30:36
  But the quieter you get, the calmer you get, the more you can make peace in your life.
• 30:42
  I think that's when you really start to hear that intuition.
• 30:45
  You hear the voices of your heart, right?
• 30:48
  And what I've also come to learn, those voices, those things that I hear when I'm quiet are the things I can trust the most.
• 30:58
  Amen.
• 30:59
  It's like, ah.
• 31:02
  And you don't just hear them, but you feel it, right?
• 31:05
  You're like, oh, that landed.
• 31:07
  That is something I need to do.
• 31:08
  That's...
• 31:09
  That feels 100% aligned with where I'm at.
• 31:13
  Whereas when you're busy, busy, busy, I just don't have the same experience.
• 31:19
  So good.
• 31:20
  So relatable.
• 31:22
  Now that you've adopted this practice of masculine containment, what do you trust about yourself or the world that you didn't before?
• 31:32
  Um...
• 31:35
  It may sound like cliche, but I trust myself way more.
• 31:39
  I trust that I, again, I hate to use the word control because it feels controlling, but that's not it.
• 31:46
  It's like I'm more capable.
• 31:50
  I'm more, the word is eluding me, but I have the ability.
• 31:55
  Regulated maybe?
• 31:56
  Maybe.
• 31:57
  Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
• 31:58
  Thank you.
• 31:59
  Yeah.
• 31:59
  And just have the ability to choose to, and to, you know, it's, I also think like being calm is enough.
• 32:09
  Like that's, I, one thing I've really come to learn is presence is one of the greatest currencies on this planet.
• 32:20
  And so many people don't, A, they don't have it because they're so busy and triggered and unaware of what's running them and the programming that's running them.
• 32:29
  So that's part of it.
• 32:31
  And B, I think so many of us just don't get to experience presence.
• 32:35
  Right?
• 32:36
  When someone, something as simple as you say to someone, good morning, and then you actually wait and listen for the answer, like you care about how they respond.
• 32:45
  Right.
• 32:45
  So many people these days, in my experience, they ask you a question before you can even get the answer out of your mouth.
• 32:51
  They're on to the next question or they've just moved on.
• 32:54
  And so presence is like, I don't know, it's just to me, it's key.
• 32:59
  And so back to your question, like what has changed or what?
• 33:04
  That's something I've been becoming very aware of is the value of presence.
• 33:08
  Yeah.
• 33:10
  So good.
• 33:11
  Cal, you're a coach.
• 33:13
  If a man listening to this, to our interview, feels like you did before the container, what would you say to him?
• 33:21
  Well, I would say sign up for the next container.
• 33:23
  Would be...
• 33:24
  Thank you.
• 33:26
  And the reason that it's not just a shameless plug, it's like, it's the...
• 33:33
  I've been immersed in this kind of work for a long, long time.
• 33:36
  I've not seen anywhere else where...
• 33:40
  The exercises, tools, strategies that can help men are put together in such a cohesive, manageable way.
• 33:49
  Right?
• 33:50
  And so I think, yeah, I think signing up for the next cohort for the Brotherhood would be key.
• 33:55
  And for whatever reason, if that's not accessible, I would just say...
• 34:01
  You know, everybody's journey is different.
• 34:04
  And the work looks different, I think, for each of us.
• 34:06
  But do the work, whatever that means for you.
• 34:10
  Like, start to observe yourself would be a great step.
• 34:14
  And we talked about this, and I was thinking about this the other day.
• 34:18
  Like, one of the most tangible examples, I think, for men in particular, and some women I know, is where you lose your stuff is road rage.
• 34:27
  Right.
• 34:28
  So you're driving and someone cuts you off and you just come completely unhinged.
• 34:32
  So a great step would be just start to observe where you where you lose your stuff.
• 34:37
  That would be a wonderful place to start, I think.
• 34:40
  So good.
• 34:40
  Yeah, road rage is one of those training opportunities.
• 34:43
  It's like if you're practicing martial arts, you want to stay in your body.
• 34:47
  So find that trigger and then make sure you stay in your body and breathe.
• 34:52
  Or if I can just share another one, like in relationships in particular with your family, and it came up a lot in our discussions with people's children.
• 35:02
  But wherever you lose your stuff, that's a great place to start.
• 35:07
  For sure.
• 35:07
  Right?
• 35:07
  Because, and right back to what we were talking about around safety, is when we lose our stuff as men, the people around us don't feel safe.
• 35:18
  And it stands to reason, right?
• 35:21
  I'm yelling and ranting and throwing stuff like, whoa, that doesn't feel very safe.
• 35:26
  That just feels like something I just want to back away from.
• 35:30
  Right.
• 35:31
  And so just I think for us as men in particular to consider that when we lose our stuff, how does it impact those around us and how can we just start to shift out of it?
• 35:42
  So good.
• 35:44
  Last question, Cal.
• 35:45
  If you think back to the person you were before you started this work, what would you tell him?
• 35:52
  I would tell them to just keep doing the work.
• 35:54
  Like, their life can be pretty frigging sweet.
• 35:57
  And, you know, and like I said to you on more than one occasion, I've done a lot of different work.
• 36:06
  This particular body of work is some of the most profound stuff I've ever done.
• 36:11
  And so, you know, do the work.
• 36:15
  Yeah.
• 36:17
  being aware now that like as men, I think we have in particular, we have an obligation to do better.
• 36:23
  We, I think we had a bit of a discussion of this, right?
• 36:27
  But if you look at a lot of the problems on this planet, and I hate to say this, but a lot of them, I think are created by unregulated men.
• 36:37
  You don't have to look too far in terms of leadership, global leadership to see
• 36:47
  And so how do we just do better?
• 36:49
  How do we be more grounded, more calm, create safety for those around us, be more empathetic, in particular towards women, and say, you know what, we can do better.
• 36:59
  We have to do better.
• 37:01
  And when you look at a society that's largely patriarchal,
• 37:08
  And many men are not doing a great job, especially in leadership positions.
• 37:13
  Like we owe it to ourselves and to everyone on the planet to be better men.
• 37:19
  And yeah, everyone benefits from that.
• 37:23
  That's interesting.
• 37:23
  You know, as you talk about being better for everyone else, it's extraordinary how much we actually get out of doing that work.
• 37:33
  You know, it's like, yes, it's for our partner.
• 37:36
  Oftentimes men ask me, I'm doing all this work for her, you know, and it sounds like it's all about them.
• 37:41
  And it's but.
• 37:43
  When you do this work, I think the person who without question benefits the most is you.
• 37:48
  Would you agree?
• 37:49
  100%.
• 37:50
  And it's another one of those dichotomous things, right?
• 37:55
  It's like the better I am, then the better those around me are.
• 38:00
  And because of that, I just get better.
• 38:03
  Right?
• 38:03
  It's pretty simple, but I would agree totally.
• 38:06
  And think about the...
• 38:08
  I don't know...
• 38:10
  I don't know any men that when they actually completely lose their stuff, that they're proud of that.
• 38:16
  No question.
• 38:17
  So think about the feeling of, you know, you learn some tools, you get some awareness, you have the ability to regulate yourself and stay a little more grounded and you don't lose your stuff.
• 38:27
  How will that feel?
• 38:30
  Right?
• 38:30
  And I think for most men that would feel pretty frigging cool.
• 38:33
  Like, yeah, you know what?
• 38:34
  I'm a guy that can keep it together.
• 38:38
  So good, Cal.
• 38:40
  Thank you for recording with me today, for being so transparent, so real.
• 38:44
  Thank you for the connection we have between us.
• 38:46
  And thank you for being such an active member of the Brotherhood, like not just doing this work yourself, but for all the support you provided the other members.
• 38:53
  I think it was invaluable.
• 38:55
  Well, it's my pleasure.
• 38:56
  And I enjoyed this conversation and I am just such a firm believer in what you're doing in this body of work and that, you know, life can be pretty sweet if we, as men, can do the work that we need to do.
• 39:10
  Thank you so much, Cal.
• 39:12
  Thank you.
• 39:15
  Thank you so much for listening to my interview with Cal Meisner.
• 39:18
  If you are as excited as he was about this practices of masculine containment, I would love to work with you directly.
• 39:24
  Go to thebrotherhoodsociety.com, and if interviews are open for our next container, join one, and if not, join the wait list.
• 39:30
  I look forward to meeting you soon.
• 39:32
  This is a life-changing practice if you let it be.
• 39:35
  Thebrotherhoodsociety.com.
• 39:37
  I look forward to seeing you.