Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 1080: 9 Big Ways Mark Drury Has Changed His Mind on Whitetails

Transcript

Ep. 1080: 9 Big Ways Mark Drury Has Changed His Mind on Whitetails · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired2Hunt podcast. This week on the show,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I'm joined by the one and only Mark Drury to
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: discuss nine big ways he's changed his mind about deer
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and deer hunting. All right, welcome back to the Wired2Hunt
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: podcast brought to you by Moultrie. Today on the show,
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  Speaker 1: we are joined by the mad scientist himself, one of
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: my favorite guests ever to be on the Wired2Hunt podcast,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Mark Drury. He is the co-founder of Drury Outdoors, host
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: of so many different TV shows and YouTube shows. It
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: would take much too long to list them all. He's
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: simply one of the best deer hunters and deer hunting
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  Speaker 1: communicators to ever, you know, I'm probably maybe not exaggerating
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: here by saying to ever grace this planet. Mark is
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  Speaker 1: an OG. He's the real deal. And today I wanted
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: to talk to him about something different. I wanted to
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: talk to him about how maybe what he used to
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: have all figured out wasn't as figured out as much
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: as he thought it was. So I texted him the
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: morning of our podcast and I said, Hey Mark, my
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: plan for our podcast today is to explore in what
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: ways you might have changed your mind or updated your
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: beliefs on key whitetail topics in recent years. He responded,
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  Speaker 1: I haven't. So are we done here? And then, uh,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: a laughing emoji. The truth of the matter, though, once
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: we start talking, is that there are many different ways
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  Speaker 1: in which Mark has updated his beliefs, adjusted his strategies,
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  Speaker 1: sometimes even changed his mind when it comes to the
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  Speaker 1: deer hunting topics that we're all so fascinated by. For example,
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  Speaker 1: one of our, actually several of our most popular podcasts
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: with Mark Drury were spent completely talking about all the
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: different ways he believes that weather impacts deer movement. Well,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: guess what? In recent years, he has changed his mind
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  Speaker 1: on some of that stuff. And there are many different
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  Speaker 1: examples like that. So today, I'm going to ask Mark
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: about that. How have his beliefs and opinions and strategies
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  Speaker 1: changed when it comes to the weather, the moon, barometric pressure,
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  Speaker 1: mature buck behavior, patterning deer, using wind, using trail cameras,
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  Speaker 1: access and exits, and so much more. That's our conversation today,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: and without any further ado, let's get to that chat.
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  Speaker 1: Thanks for being here. All right, with me back on
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  Speaker 1: the line for, I don't know, maybe his sixth or
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: seventh or eighth appearance is Mr. Mark Drury. Welcome back, Mark.
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  Speaker 2: Hi, Mark.
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  Speaker 3: How are you doing?
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: I'm great. I always am excited for these conversations and appreciative,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: so thank you for being here.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Likewise, I wanted to make sure my computer was plugged in.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: It just hit me, just to make sure we've got
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: power for this whole thing.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Better safe than sorry.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I'm looking good on my end, and you look good
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: this morning, and the season has started, and here we go,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: fall of 2015.
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  Speaker 1: This has become like an annual tradition. I feel like
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: somewhere around the end of September, early October, you and
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I always get on one of these and catch up.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: So what I always want to know, and what I'm
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: always excited to be following along with is, is what's
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: happening in the woods where you're at, Mark? Recent hunts,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: anything exciting lately as the season's kicked off?
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: So far, so good.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Taylor was in from Utah for about two weeks, and
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: she killed us this beautiful Missouri buck, just a really
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  Speaker 2: tall brow tines, big, giant body, and that was very exciting.
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  Speaker 2: It's already out on YouTube, and people seem to be
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  Speaker 2: really enjoying that.
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  Speaker 3: And Coondog... Night.
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  Speaker 2: Before last, killed a giant seven-and-a-half-year-old, just this tank of
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: a body down in Missouri. But most importantly, our Catch
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: a Dream family just flew out, and they came in
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  Speaker 2: with a little boy, the youngest Catch a Dream hunter
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  Speaker 2: we've had in a while. He was 10 years old, Wyatt,
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  Speaker 2: from the great state of Ohio, and he killed this
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  Speaker 2: 20-inch-wide 10-point, in Iowa the first night the deer came
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  Speaker 2: out making a scrape tearing the woods up came into
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  Speaker 2: a clover field right in the middle of this big
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  Speaker 2: acorn ridge and um just made a perfect shot the
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  Speaker 2: deer ran about 75 yards so that always starts the
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  Speaker 2: season off right that's the hunt we look forward to
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  Speaker 2: the most the one we do all the planning about
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  Speaker 2: and Wyatt got his mind off and his family got
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  Speaker 2: his mind off of some of the things that that
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  Speaker 2: has been ailing him and um it was nice to
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  Speaker 2: see that that come together so.
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  Speaker 1: You've been such a great example of this idea of
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: sharing the hunt with other people over the years, right?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, for as long as I have seen your stuff,
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  Speaker 1: you guys have been giving back in this kind of way.
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  Speaker 1: What's that been like? I mean, I have experienced some
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: of this in taking out new hunters and helping teach people.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: And I felt like as much as you're giving to them,
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  Speaker 1: they're giving back to you too. There's just a tremendous
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  Speaker 1: sense of fulfillment that comes from that, isn't there?
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  Speaker 2: It is, and I always say it's them that bless
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  Speaker 2: us when they're in with their presence, you know, especially
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  Speaker 2: their families.
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  Speaker 3: And I don't know how Catch a.
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  Speaker 2: Dream does it to come up with these just amazing
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  Speaker 2: families going through these trials that all of us would
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  Speaker 2: dread and hate and yet to see their positive attitude.
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  Speaker 2: It's a real inspiration when they come in knowing what
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  Speaker 2: they're going through. This little boy at age 10, and
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  Speaker 2: I have permission to talk about his condition. From the family.
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  Speaker 2: He's already undergone two complete bone marrow transplants. At age five,
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  Speaker 2: his donor was his two-year-old sister at the time. And
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  Speaker 2: then again at age nine, they found a match in
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Europe because the first one failed, which was, according to them,
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  Speaker 2: like one in 100,000 ever fail when it's actually a
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  Speaker 2: sibling that is the donor.
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  Speaker 3: So it failed.
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  Speaker 2: The cancer came back. and he went through it again
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  Speaker 2: at age nine. So this young boy by the young
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  Speaker 2: age of 10 has gone through more than most of
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  Speaker 2: us will ever, you know, go through in our lives
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  Speaker 2: and to see how much he loved the outdoors and
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: how much he, he just wanted to be outside. Whether it,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: when we were done with the buck the next night,
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: he killed a doe. Then he went fishing all day
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  Speaker 2: and they said he gets in trouble at school because
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: he's looking out the window, looking at outside.
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  Speaker 3: He doesn't want to be in school.
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  Speaker 2: And, To see what the outdoors means to these families,
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  Speaker 2: it's very, very encouraging. And I've said it many times,
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  Speaker 2: I wish I could take them all. It's just the
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  Speaker 2: greatest joy. And if by chance any of your listeners
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: aren't familiar with Catch a Dream, go to catchadream.org and
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: look at what this group is doing and this organization.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Make-A-Wish does not honor hunting and fishing wishes. Catch a
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  Speaker 2: Dream was born some 25-plus years ago. We've been working
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: with them for over 20 years. And Whitetails Unlimited helps
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: us with our antlers that we auction off at their
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  Speaker 2: banquets to raise money for trips for families.
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  Speaker 3: Just like Wyatt's.
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  Speaker 2: And it's just the best organization out there as far
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  Speaker 2: as I'm concerned.
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  Speaker 3: And it is a true.
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  Speaker 2: Blessing to be trusted to take these beautiful children out.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's phenomenal. And it's just got to be a
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  Speaker 1: great way to kind of reset your perspective. every year, right?
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  Speaker 1: We get so worked up. We get so worked up about, oh,
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  Speaker 1: this buck or these antlers or this mistake I made.
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  Speaker 1: But then when you look at that, I think it
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  Speaker 1: has a way of recentering yourself on what really matters, right?
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  Speaker 3: Really quickly and dramatically. Dramatically. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And it's amazing how the family comes in and you
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  Speaker 2: bond and then you become friends. And it's, I'm just,
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  Speaker 2: you know, praying for Wyatt and his family and hopefully,
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  Speaker 2: you know, Things go well. Of the last four children
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  Speaker 2: we've had, two are no longer with us. To show
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  Speaker 2: you the seriousness in which Catch a Dream, all these
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  Speaker 2: families that they're dealing with, to show you the seriousness
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  Speaker 2: of that, it'll break your heart, I promise you.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, wow. Well, there's no good transition from that, but
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  Speaker 1: I would say that I imagine this perspective shift that
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  Speaker 1: we're talking about when it comes to appreciating the little
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: things or just appreciating the blessings in our life, that
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  Speaker 1: is somewhat related to the larger set of ideas I
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  Speaker 1: wanted to run by today, Mark. Because as I was
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  Speaker 1: thinking about this chat coming up, I thought back to
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  Speaker 1: the fact that you and I have been talking here for,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know, well over a decade now. And for
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: as long as I have been paying attention to this world,
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  Speaker 1: it seemed like you have always had it figured out, right?
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  Speaker 1: You're one of the best. you are someone who we
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  Speaker 1: all look up to, and it might seem from the
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: outside looking in that you've had it all figured out
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  Speaker 1: from day one, right? And that you're never making mistakes
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  Speaker 1: or that you're never having to learn something new. But
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  Speaker 1: in these conversations we've had, you know, time and time again,
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  Speaker 1: you've talked about, well, you know, actually this deer taught
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  Speaker 1: me X or this experience taught me Y, or actually
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  Speaker 1: I used to think this, but it's shifted a little bit.
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  Speaker 1: And I got to thinking that if we were to
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  Speaker 1: look back over the last 10, 15, 20 years in
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  Speaker 1: which we've been connecting on these podcasts and things, I
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  Speaker 1: was betting that there might be some interesting places that
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  Speaker 1: you've updated your beliefs. We've had some of our podcasts
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  Speaker 1: over the years that have been so widely listened to,
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  Speaker 1: so universally appreciated. I got to wondering, man, does everything
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: in those still hold up? Or Maybe from 2013 to now,
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  Speaker 1: maybe you have a slightly different idea about some of
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: these things. And so that is what inspired my idea.
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  Speaker 1: idea here today, Mark. And I'm wondering, for somebody who
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  Speaker 1: might have that assumption with you, that you have it
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  Speaker 1: all figured out, am I right in that that's not
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  Speaker 1: actually true? Like you are constantly tweaking, adjusting, maybe sometimes
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  Speaker 1: changing your mind. And if so, how often do you
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: find yourself in a given, I don't know, is it
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  Speaker 1: once a year? Is it once every five years? Once
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  Speaker 1: every 10 years where you're like, oh, you know what?
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  Speaker 1: I kind of had that wrong. Or actually, I think
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  Speaker 1: it's a little bit different. Does that still happen to you, Mark?
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  Speaker 3: It certainly does. And first of all, I don't have
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  Speaker 3: it figured out.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, that's why we go to learn and to
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: search and seek. And I would say that each day,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: we evolve. I know for years, Terry and I would
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: speak daily. We don't do that as much now as
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: we've aged, but for years, we would talk daily for
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: an hour about what he's seeing and what I'm seeing
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: and how to strategize. But those long conversations evolved into
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: the show 13 and the app DeerCast and so on
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: and so forth as we formulated our opinions and put
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: our minds together and came up with what they're doing
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: when and so on.
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  Speaker 3: And so forth.
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  Speaker 2: But I will say this in the big picture sense,
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  Speaker 2: I think many of your listeners, cause when did we
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: do that? It's been years ago that we did that.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Um, the, the weather, uh, yeah, that very first one
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  Speaker 1: that was like 20, yeah, like 2013 or 14, something
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  Speaker 1: like that.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: So that was when we were developing deer cast through
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  Speaker 2: that period. And many of those premises were based on
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: the weather that we had experienced the previous 25, 30
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  Speaker 2: years of hunting. And if you look at what our
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: weather patterns are now, look at the last five years,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: we have literally been going through autumn at 10 to
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: 15 degrees above normal for the most part. And the
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: cold fronts would bring us to the normal temperature. That
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  Speaker 2: has been true the last five years. What has also
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: been true is much less precip, and I'm speaking here
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: in Iowa and Missouri, and this may or may not
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  Speaker 2: relate to someone in a different part of the country,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: but I know here, but they could still derive perhaps
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  Speaker 2: some opinions based on what I'm about to say. But
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  Speaker 2: the weather has been warmer and drier, and therefore we've
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: seen an adjustment in the deer herd to how they
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: react to um, those temperatures versus what was in our
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: original algorithm with deer cast. And we've suggested it because
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: we saw it happening on, on the fly. Like if, if,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: if you would have taken a normal autumn, call it
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: fall of 13 or fall of 14.
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  Speaker 3: And, and, you know.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: By mid August, you've got your first or by sorry,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: mid October, you've got your first frost. and the daytime
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: highs are in the 50s, the lows were in the 30s,
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  Speaker 2: which is what we all dream about. And then you
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  Speaker 2: hit them with any day we've had in the last
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: few Octobers, it would just shut them down all together, right?
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  Speaker 3: Because we're so much above normal. I have seen them adjust.
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  Speaker 2: I've seen, you know, small, young deer grow up with
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  Speaker 2: these warmer temperatures, and suddenly there's almost an inverse relationship
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  Speaker 2: to where when it gets really, really cold, it slows
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  Speaker 2: them down because they're used to very, very warm.
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  Speaker 3: Temperatures, as opposed to 10.
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  Speaker 2: Years ago when it got really, really cold, it would
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: enhance daylight activity. So we've seen that adjustment because of
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: the change in the weather pattern. We just exited out
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: of the solar minor. We're now in the solar major.
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  Speaker 3: I think these types of.
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  Speaker 2: Trends are here for perhaps the next 7 to 10 years, based.
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  Speaker 3: On what I read.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm kind of a geek about droughts and weather
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: and heat and all that type of stuff.
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  Speaker 3: And I think we're going further into a warming pattern. Okay?
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: We currently have the strongest El Nino on record out
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: in the Pacific, which is going to affect the country
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: in different ways depending on where the jet stream sets up.
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  Speaker 2: But it has changed the way they react to warmer temperatures,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: in my opinion.
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  Speaker 1: So....
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I have changed, and we adjusted the algorithm because of that.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I've also seen this dry, nasty pattern we're in create
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: so much EHD because of the droughts in different parts
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: of the country that have never had it before. I
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: was texting yesterday with Eric Boothin, and I remember Eric.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: And I always stay in touch.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: He's a great deer hunter in northern Iowa, southern Minnesota, and.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I remember 10 years ago, we don't get that up here.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: We don't get that up here. We're talking about EHD.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: And now he's like, we're getting it up here.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Hasn't smoked them to the point we have in other
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: parts of the country. Look at parts of Wisconsin getting
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: it this year.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Ohio last year.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Of course, you always see it in Missouri and Kentucky
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: and Tennessee.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: But we're getting bigger bouts of it. It's more widespread
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: because the drought is more widespread.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: I saw a thing on social the other day. It
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: hasn't rained in Nashville in like 32 days. And Dallas,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Texas went 100 days above 90 degrees in a row.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: You know, this warming trend is just it's very dangerous
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: to the wildlife, you know. And I've seen that EHD
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: take out a big number of deer. It's also given
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: a hangover effect to many that were affected. Their body
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: systems were affected in some way, shape, or form. They
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: don't move as well. They don't look as healthy.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: So I think the.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Overall health of the herd is not in a great
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: state right now. Um, we've lost a lot of deer
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: to EHD in certain pockets, not everywhere. There's other places
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: that haven't been affected by it, but I'm sure many
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: blisters and right now I'm nodding their head going, yeah,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: my neighbor found deer. I've found deer. I don't have
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: the deer I used to have. Um, so those two
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: things have, have evolved my thinking, uh, after having normal
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: autumns for 25, 30 years with average temperatures to below.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you'd get warm. It's now, uh, It's reverse of that.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: And I've thrown a.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Lot of that out the window and I hunt a
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: little bit different and I'm trying to sneak in there
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: a little closer to bedrooms than ever before. So I
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: have evolved in that way because of the weather and
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: because of the sickness.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: In the herd.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I want to drill in on the weather thing just
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: a little bit more. How exactly, so you mentioned that
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: maybe now some deer are actually moving more when they
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: get a warm spell versus a cold spell. Can you
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: just elaborate a little bit more on the specifics of that?
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Because I remember that first show we did together, right?
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Episode 63, that number sticks in my head. People were
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: so fascinated by the specifics, right? Okay, if you got
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: a 10 degree or more temperature drop, well, then you're
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: probably going to get an increase in movement for so
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: many days afterwards, et cetera, et cetera. Can you give
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: me that level of detail when it comes to how
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: you're seeing things now? And if, you know, The warm fronts,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: is that a one-day bump or is that more so?
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: And similarly, are the cold fronts now less important?
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Well, if I said that, I misstated.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: I'm saying that they have gotten used to the warm
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: weather and they are now moving in warmer temperatures that
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I would not have seen them move as well, call
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: it six, seven years ago.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Because they've kind of equalized and gotten used to it,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: if you will.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: New norm.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: The new norm.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: And I've also seen certain cold fronts, especially earlier in
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: the year, shut them down when previously I would not
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: have expected that.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: And I'm talking a drastic change in temperature where it
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: gets really, really cold.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Whereas previously, mid-October, if all of a sudden you've got
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: highs in the 30s and 40s, I couldn't wait to
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: get out there. But here now, the new norm, if
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: we've just gone through 10 or call it three or
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: four weeks of 75 degrees is the high, and then
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: you drop.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: It that much, I've seen them shut it down for
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: a little bit and they have to almost.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: recreate a new equilibrium for their system. So some of
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: these things have thrown us some curveballs.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: Where we're sitting there scratching our head going, why are
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: they not moving?
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: But it could also be that they're not feeling as
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: well because of the EHD, and therefore cold weather puts
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: them in a conservation mode for energy as opposed to.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: Expanding that energy. So that's my true belief, that in.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: General, the herd is not as healthy as it was
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: 10 years ago because of all the EHD.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: Year after year after year.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Previously, we had bouts of it, 98, 08. 12 but
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: you'd have it and then they would recover and then
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: you would be ehd free for a few years these
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: past few years man we just keep getting slapped with
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: it i haven't seen it yet this year uh but
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: in 2022 23 24 25 i mean we just we
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: just lost so many deer and it was it was
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: the type that wasn't um It wasn't the type that
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: killed them in August. It was the type that made
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: them sick and then they would die. And when the
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: rut hit or then... in January, February, March. I remember
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: last year, so spring of this year, it was like,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: it was like May. Turkey season had ended. I'm coming
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: down the driveway. I was actually doing some skid steer work.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: I'm coming down the driveway and I see.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: This shed antlered buck just spinning in my driveway like this.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: He's just spinning. So I knew what it was. This
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: is May, and he's dying of EHD, literally in my driveway.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: I live on one of the farms.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: And I called the game warden and let him know,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: and I sent him a video.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: And, I mean, the deer could hardly stand. And he
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: told me, he said, you know, dispatch it, and I'll
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: come down and check it out. So that's what I did.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: And he was just foaming at the mouth, and he
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: was totally out of control, spinning. And it was really,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: really sad. So here we are in May still losing them.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: And that stuff, those things didn't happen 10, 15 years ago.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: You know, not to my knowledge anyway. We had a
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: deer dying upon.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: In the spring of 2025.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: And he had EHD, a buck that had shed his antlers.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: 25 out there just submerged and dying.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: I just don't remember those types of instances where it
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: just lasted for so long and was such.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: A killer on a broad day. But back to your
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: original question. I do think that normal to above normal,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: provided other conditions are there, we now see movement that
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: we previously had not. I can't put an exact number
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: on it. But I do know that I firmly believe
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: pressure has as much to do with deer movement as
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: anything else in all the different variables. If you still
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: have good pressure, they will still move even in those really,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: really warm trends. The last few years, not fall of 26,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: but fall of 25, fall of 24, the first two
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: or three weeks of the season, we were at 85
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: to 90 degrees.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: But we had sunshine. We had high pressure. We had breezes.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: And the deer still moved. They might move a touch later,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: but they still moved.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Have any of the other factors shifted in your mind
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: at all in recent years? You mentioned pressure, but I
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: know also you guys pay a lot of attention to
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: cloud cover and wind direction, wind speed, shifting wind directions,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: so many different things. The moon, of course. Have any
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: of those other things been tweaked a little bit in
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: your mind in recent years?
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Not so much that I can tell. Not so much.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: But I think if you went back to episode 63,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: you would have heard me talk about barometric pressure a
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: great deal back then too. And I still believe that
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: in my heart. It's the number one influencer when it
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: comes to whitetails is that pressure. But there's also slots
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: for that pressure and it's relative per season. High pressure
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: in the early season is a little bit lower than
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: high pressure in the latter part of the season. And
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: if you get out of that optimal range, high, high,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: high pressure can subdue the movement or make them a
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: little bit weird.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: I've seen days in December where it.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Would get to like 30.75, like a record high pressure,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: you know, and it kind of almost shuts them down
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: a little bit, you know.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: Interesting.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: They get a little bit weird with really, really high pressure.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: So there's optimal ranges for all of those different variables.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: And that's part of how our algorithm is built is
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: around the optimal range as opposed to, just because it's
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: high pressure doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be, uh,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: amazing every time.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: One thing you kind of referred to there a second
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: ago was just how you've been seeing maybe some buck
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: behavior change a little bit because of this, these health issues, right? Um,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: And I feel like in past conversations, you've talked about
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: how these dear individuals sometimes are the greatest teachers, right?
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: We can learn so much from individual mature bucks. They
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: seem to always surprise us with something new. So we
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: did an episode, this would have been probably four or
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: five years ago, episode 699, that was all about mature
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: buck behavior. Everything you learned about behavior of mature bucks.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Have you changed your mind at all on that in
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: recent years? Has there been a buck that has been
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: eye-opening to you or an experience that said, huh, I
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: guess maybe things are a little bit different sometimes than
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I thought? Can you think of anything like that?
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: No, not necessarily, other than this whole subject of the
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: weather has affected them in that I think a lot
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: of them don't feel overly well and.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Therefore aren't moving as far.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: The other thing we've seen with EHD, it seems to
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: be far greater on the buck herd than it does
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: the doe.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: So therefore, what previously was a more balanced herd is
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: now out of balance and therefore.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: They don't have to travel as far. When it comes
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: to the rut, I've seen some really miserable rut activity
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: the last few years. You couple the warmer temperatures with
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: a herd that's out of balance and a herd that
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: may not be feeling the best, you know, and all
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: of a sudden you have a lackluster rut, you know,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: where they're just not moving that great. You have a
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: great day or two, but you don't have that week
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: of unbelievable movement. I still like my dates that I've
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: always liked, you know, 7th through the 9th, and then
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: 17th through the... you know, the 20th or so.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: I still like the just before, just after a little
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: bit better than peak of the rut.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: But I haven't changed a great deal other than I
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: do think, I do think, you know, the weather has
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: changed the overall dynamic of the health and therefore the movement.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Okay. How do you adjust to that? You know, if
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: you're in a situation like this where the herd health
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: has maybe been hurt in some ways, the ratio, the
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: sex ratio maybe has been changed. You've got these warmer temperatures.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: You're getting this Period of the year that you've looked
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: forward to all year. And now you're dealt that set
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: of cards. Like, how do you, how do you adjust
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: and still make the best of that?
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: The way we've adjusted is hunting harder and hunting longer,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: sitting longer hours. I mean, you've, you've got to optimize
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: your time. Obviously you've got to balance it with family
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: and work and everything else, but. The only way around that,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: I say it all the time and you hear me
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: say it, you got to be the camera. You've got
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: the trail camera sitting there and all of a sudden
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: that giant walks by it in daylight. Well, you've got
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: to spend the same amount of time out there that
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: that camera does in order to be there when the
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: giant walks by. So you've got to increase your odds
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: by increasing stand time. You know, if they're not moving
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: as much, you better be there when they do or
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: you're going to miss it altogether.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: So that's the way we've done it. It's just hunting
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: harder and hunting longer.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Okay. I love that line. Be the camera. That's one that's,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: that's stuck with me over the years since you started
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: saying that. And, uh, you know, this whole camera thing,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: trail cameras, they've changed a lot in the last five
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: ish years, right? When we, as we've shifted from standard
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: cameras to sell cameras and sell cameras continue to evolve
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: and change and the, the different tools we have for
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: understanding those photos and all that. Um, I think there's
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of people that chase cell camera pictures now, right?
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: That's a big thing. They get a picture yesterday, they
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: go there today, and that has become how people do it.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: We talked about this a little bit back in episode 585.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: We did a master class on patterning bucks, but that
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: was a while ago. Things have changed a bit as
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: cell cameras have become cheaper, easier to use. We all
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: have more of them now. How has your patterning of
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: bucks maybe evolved from Um, over that time, have things changed?
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Have you, have you changed your mind on anything or
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: adjusted how you do things at all recently?
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Not a ton, honestly.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, our, our, many of the spots you see
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: us sitting in are the same spots we were sitting in,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: you know, 10, 12 years ago, 15 years ago. I
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: do when setting up a new spot, have a tendency
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: to get further into the bedroom and closer to where
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: they bed just because daylight activity to me has has
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: been reduced a little bit the last few years so
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I'm setting up spots where I previously wouldn't have intruded
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: quite that far you know I used to be take
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: the bedroom you know call it a big square I'd
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: be right on the outside edge of the square you
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: know if that was the bedroom now I'm inside one
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: side of that square you know I'm cheating in a
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: little bit further you know if you will so I
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: like to get as close as I can to where
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I feel like they're betting.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: But I haven't changed a drastic amount in terms of that.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: How do you know how close is close enough? What
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: are you thinking through in those moments when you're either
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: scouting or moving in and trying to figure out this
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: new okay distance to be?
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: A lot of it has to do with, can I
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: get there or not? You know?
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: So if there's, if there's some access that allows me
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: to get to where I'm going to sit, then I'll go.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: If that does not exist, then I probably wouldn't intrude
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: in there because you're really doing no good for yourself.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: If you're bumping them out of the bedroom on the
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: way to your stand, you know, that's, that's one of
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: the biggest defeats you can have in deer hunting is,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: is to do a deer drive on the way to
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: your stand or bump any.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: Deer, you know, like, And that's for sure.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Like if I if I test a spot out and
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: I'm bumping deer, that's a big no no for me.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I just do not want to intrude on that bedroom whatsoever.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: I want to get as close as I can, but
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: I don't want to bump them out of there.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: That's for sure.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: So it really comes down to just, I guess, experience
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: in looking at a spot and going, you know, they're
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: not going to be bad.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: On this bald face or whatever. I can get right here.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: And get up on top of this Ridge and get
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: into this stand. Um, or I can get up this
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Creek and get in, you know, some little advantage to
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: get right in their bedroom, but yet not be detected
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: on the way.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: So on that front, one thing that I used to
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: think is that I, I used to be so paranoid
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: about bumping deer out of their bedroom. I was, I
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: was just on pins and needles anytime I entered the
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: cover because I thought, gosh, like if I ever screwed
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: up just one time, it's done. And, and going anywhere
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: near cover is going to be too dangerous. Um, but
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: over the years, just more and more experience, I've kind
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: of come to learn, like there's a little bit more
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: wiggle room if you're smart about it. And if you
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: do it as you described, like you can sometimes get
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: in there a little bit more than we used to think.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: Um, And that it's windy, particularly if it's windy.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point. And that's, that's maybe been
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: one of the biggest shifts in my thinking has just
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: been realizing like, oh, wow, you can actually get in
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: there a little bit in certain situations when you're smart.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden it's a totally different ball
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: game when you're playing the game in the stadium versus
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: outside of it. Right.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: No question. No question. I love windy days.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: There are certain stands that I'll only access if the
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: wind's above, you know, 14 or 15 miles an hour.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: And other days, I know I can't get there. It's
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: just too calm. They'll hear you or whatever it is.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: But when it's windy, they hold tighter to that bed
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: for sure, and.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: You can get there.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: So it does vary, I guess, a little bit on
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: the weather conditions to make sure that certain spots you can,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: certain spots you can't.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: And you can tweak that approach. Through time, if you
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: make a mistake and you go in on a day
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: when you're.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Busting a room, maybe it's great in the morning and
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: it's not so great in the afternoon or vice versa
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: in terms.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: Of your access. I have spots like that too.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't dare go to that spot of an afternoon,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: but of a morning, I know I can get there safely.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: And conversely, of a morning, if it's a heavy frost,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: once you get into late October and November, those are
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: days heavy frost will hold them in their bed much tighter.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Wind will hold them in their bed much tighter.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Um, those are, those are two opportunities where you can,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: you can go a little bit further.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Has these, have these warmer temperatures that we've experienced impacted
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: any of that? You know, like how often you get
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: those thermals you want or how often you get that
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: frost or anything like that, right?
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: That how few frost have.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: You seen the last few years? Think of your hunting
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: and think of. You get a frosty day, now it's
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: a rarity.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: It's a lot later.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: It used to be the norm, frost almost every morning.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: And now anymore, you don't get it as much, especially
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: late October and into, it's really closer to Thanksgiving before
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: it starts frosting, down here at least, before it starts
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: frosting every day. That's been the last few years. It's
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: 40s for lows instead of 20s and 30s.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: I want to circle back to the camera thing. Um,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: how have you, you know, as cell cameras have become
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: more and more a part of what you guys do,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: how have you fine tuned and tweaked how best to
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: use them? Because I think there's a lot of people
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: right now when it comes to cameras that are, um,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: we're in like a reshifting of how people use them.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: I think that when they first showed up cell cameras,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: there was this set of like, let's get them out there.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: And what they tell me here is where they're going
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to be tomorrow. And then they would go there. And
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's people now learning that sometimes you
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: can become like a dog chasing his tail. And so
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: there's some evolution in how people are starting to think
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: about them. How has your cell camera use, you know,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: what's that movement been like? Where are you at right
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: now with like the best possible way to use that
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: information so that it's helpful to you? Has that been
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: changed at all or adjusted at all?
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: I'm still old school in the fact that, and we've
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: talked about this before, I still think take all of
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: the photos that I've had throughout the season and put
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: them into a program, and I'm looking at that program
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: as much or more than I am looking at a
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: cell report each day.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I just want to know what that historical information was
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: in the previous two or three falls, especially if it's
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: a deer that has age to it, and learn what
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: I can about what's about to happen as opposed to
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: what just happened. And that's the best way I can
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: state that I'm trying to predict what he's going to
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: do as opposed to what, see.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: What he just did.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: So I, luckily historical information is very valuable when it
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: comes to a white tail deer. If you have it,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: they oftentimes will do general things in general areas, the
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: same year in and year out. So I'm, I'm big
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: on saving every photo. And I think some folks, um,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: that I know only look at cell pictures.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: And, And then they're not keeping them, right? They get
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: that cell report. They move on to the next day
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: and the next day and the next day. And then
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: that photo's gone. It's out of their mind because they're
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: drawn to some other thought or some other deer that
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: came in their cell report.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: And if I get focused on a deer, I stay
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: on that deer and I'm looking at previous year's pictures
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: and trying to predict.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: I also make sure I keep every single photo.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: It's an awful, awful thing to do in the off
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: season after the deer season just ended to go through
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: and catalog everything And we're probably close to 2 million
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: photos a year now between all the different spots, you know, and,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: you know, how many cameras we have rolling.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: But I go through all of them. We went through
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: them when they came in, and then I go through
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: them again, and I keep them all.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: And then I'm building plans as I'm going through that
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: for this coming season.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: There is a big deer right now that I'm.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Aware of that was nice last year at age 4
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: 1⁄2 this year.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: We got summer pictures of him. He's really nice. And
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: it's a deer that Wade's going to target.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: And we already have a plan for when he was
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: on us during a certain period.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: You know, it's not right now. It's coming up.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: And we've got a plan based on all of his
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: activity the previous two seasons. We know exactly where we
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: want to be to try and take that deer, whether
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: we get the wind to do it or the conditions
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: to have the access we want to get into. But
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Wade's going to target that deer. It'll be interesting to see.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: It's a true test. We've got about a week to
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: 10 days based on what the pictures show where.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: He's actually on us during this period.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: It'll be a true test to see if we can
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: make it happen because he's going to be a tough one.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: He wasn't daylighting.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Much on us, but we've got a plan for it,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: and we put it together.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: What about this? So you have this plan in place
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: based on what he did last year. Last two years. Okay,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: last two years. So you're going to assume he's going
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: to be in area A or B, if you get
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: the right conditions during that time period. But what if
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: like just before that period hits, you get a cell
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: picture of him in somewhere totally different in an unexpected place.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Would you go chase him in that unexpected place instead
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: of sticking to your plan from history? Or would you
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: stick to the history plan?
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: We'll stick to the history plan. Okay.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Yep. Because where he's at, where he is, where he was, uh, Yeah.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Never forget that with a cell picture. That's where he was.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: That's not where he's, you know, you get the picture,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: but that's where he was. I want to know where
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: he's going.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: No, I think that's the biggest thing right now with
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: cell cameras is that people are obsessing with where he
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: was and not where he's going to be.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Um, okay. What about the, uh, the issue of scent control, uh,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: You've had a program over the years that I've seen
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: change a little bit, um, dealing with wind patterns, dealing
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: with all the different ways you guys have, you know,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: went from tree stands mostly to box blinds. More often
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I've seen you use various sprays and washing regimens. I've
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: seen you use ozone. Um, you've used a number of
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: different things over the years, both the way you behave
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: in the field and the products you use and the
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: process you go through. Um, Where does your scent control
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: process lay today? What's it look like today? What's been
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: the most important evolution over the last 10 years, maybe,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: on that front?
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes on all the things
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: you mentioned. I'm still a freak about.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Everything we do when it comes to scent, from clothes
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: washing to ozone baths daily.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: In terms of our clothing and.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Our gear, spray down, spray down while the hunt's going on,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: ozone while the hunt's going on. And you're not trying to,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: everybody says scent elimination. It's really minimizing your scent profile, right?
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: It's trying to knock it down to where they can't dictate,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: you know, holy cow, that guy stinks to high heaven
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: from a mile. They might have to be 30 or
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: 40 yards before they're figuring out, oh, that's a human.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: So it's really about the distance in which they detect
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: you as 100% a predator and then flee. We try
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: to knock it down in every way we possibly can.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: If you watch our shows, you'll see us with those
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: windows closed and those blinds. They are not scent-proof. Our
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: scent gets out, especially on windy, windy days. But they
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: do help, along with all the other steps we take,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: minimize how much scent gets out.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: And we have pretty good luck out of them. Yeah.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the scent regimen, I've always thought of that as
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: like you're stacking– you know, little dominoes or something. You're
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: just stacking all these little pieces, you know, doing the
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: shower is going to give you a little bit more
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: and then washing your clothes a little bit more and
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: then keeping it in a bin outside a little bit more.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: And then you stack all of these little things, you
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: do all of the little things, right. Eventually it can
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: lead to a difference. But if you pick and choose
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: and do just a couple of things, and then you're
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: surprised that you're still getting winded from a mile away,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't be surprised, right?
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: I've, Yes.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: And I still see say, I still people say on
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: social media.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: It doesn't matter. And I'm telling you, it matters, man.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: It matters. It matters when you access it. It matters
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: on your, your way back to the truck. The less
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: set you leave, the.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: Greater the chances are he doesn't know he was hunted.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: The more scent you leave, the greater the odds.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Are he's going to figure you out.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: And we've learned a lot of that just by using
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: tracking dogs, watching Tracker John's dogs and what they can
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: pick up about a deer versus what you had in
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: your mind.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: Those deer are unbelievable at figuring you out. So don't
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: let them figure you out.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, watching those dogs, take a track and find
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: a deer that's a mile away with little bitty clues
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: and watching how they work. If you think a deer
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: can't figure your scent out.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: You are, you are misguided.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: There's like two parts to this equation though, right? There's
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: one part, which is just controlling what you have on you.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: As far as like the scent that's eliminated, it's emanating
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: off of you one or another. And so you can
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: control that, mitigate that, minimize that using those things you mentioned.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: And the other side of things is just figuring out
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: where is all of that scent going to blow and
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: how do you set yourself up so that you don't
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: blow it in the wrong places and you do blow
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: it to the right places. We talked last year. We
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: did our full episode just about wind and thermals. It
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: was really cool. But I want to revisit that and
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: ask you, what's the biggest epiphany you've had when it
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: comes to wind, thermals, currents and how you think about
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: that or how you utilize that to your benefit over
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: the last 10, 15, 20 years? What's been that aha
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: moment where you're like, okay, this is going to help
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: me because I understand this better, or this is actually
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: slightly different and I can take advantage of it? Is
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: there anything that comes to mind on the wind front?
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, you have to be very mindful of where your
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: downwind scent is drifting to on the way in, the
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: way out, and how that could affect a deer that
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: catches you. Or more importantly, just your wind drift and
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: the scent that you lay downwind. And again, this is
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: from Tracking with Tracking Dogs or Tracker John. The conditions,
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: you know, is the pressure going up? You know, or
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: is everything going up on your way in? Or is
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: it a cloudy day with rain and everything's getting suppressed
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: and there's moisture in the air and your stuff's going
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: There for 48 hours after you leave?
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: So that access in and out is very important in
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: terms of how many deer are going to cross that trail.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: After you visited that area. It's not just about sitting
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: in the stand.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: It's the trail you use getting in there and the
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: trail you use getting out and how many deer are
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: going to contact that and then figure you.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: Out and go, oh, wait a minute, there was a
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: predator here.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: They're really good at living. They're really good at figuring
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: that stuff out. So I think access in and out
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: as it pertains to weather, wind, all those different things,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: there's certain places you can go on a windy day
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: and certain places you can't.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: And again, it all comes with experience.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: But I love those spots that I've got a creek
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: bottom to walk and keep everything low and visually, audibly
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: and olfactory.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: Keep it low.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: You know, that you can't always do that. But when
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: I can use a Creek, I do use a Creek.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: We clear them out so that our, our path is
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: clear on the way in and out.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: We'll take a chainsaw. If we've got a log.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Jam or whatever it is, we make sure we've got clear,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: clear passage in and out of those bottom stands. If
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: it's a Ridge, I like to come up the backside
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: and get to the top and stay there. I, you,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: you would, you seldom see me walking through an open
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: hardwood during the season. It, If at all, I'm always
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: on the outskirts or just inside the outskirts. And I've
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: got a decent access without a lot of deer using
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: that access, at least in my mind, uh, to get
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: in and out. So I kind of just refined my
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: spots based on failure. You know, if you're, if you're
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: burning a spot out, it may not be because you're
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: sitting there. It might be the access you're using in
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: and out that burned it out, you know? or it
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: might be the wind direction you chose to sit it
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: on because of a backdraft or something like that. So
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: as you fail and you learn that this is not working,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: what I'm doing is not working, try a different approach,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: perhaps in the same area and see if it will work.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: And we've been able to do that because many of
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: the places we hunt I've owned for a while or
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: leased for a while. And therefore we know where we're
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: safe and we know where we're not because we've made mistakes.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: And unfortunately, I wish I could get everybody, give everybody
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: one sentence that says, here's how to be a better hunter.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: But in reality, you just got to get banged around
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: a little bit and make some mistakes and avoid those mistakes.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: In the future.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: One of the biggest piece of advice I give you
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: all day.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Like if you have a failure, learn from it. You know,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: if something goes wrong, what did I do wrong?
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: And how can I correct it?
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: What's that process look like for you, Mark? Cause I
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: think a lot of us, kind of we'll give that
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: lip service. We'll say, oh, we screwed up. I better
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: learn from that. But then we're doing the very same
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: thing next year and the next year and the next year.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: It's so easy to just get stuck in a rut
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: and just stuck with what you do. How have you,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: how have you like pushed back against that and actually
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: been able to learn and grow from those failures versus
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: just doing what all the rest of us so easily
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: can be tempted into doing?
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: I think it's discussion with other hunters personally. Like, We
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: are always with someone else because of the cameraman situation
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: or if I'm the cameraman and we discuss every single
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: thing that happens in the woods. And it's amazing how
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: many thoughts you can gain just by conversing as opposed
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: to just sitting there processing. It's much better to sit
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: here and have a conversation like we are. And then
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: listen as much as you talk and respect everybody's opinions
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: and then derive from that a plan to go forward
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: and be better. Wade and I do it every single day.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Terry and I do it often. We used to do
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: it every single day. And break down the hunt. What
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: did we do right? What did we do wrong? What
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: are we going to repeat in the future? What are
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: we going to avoid doing in the future? And through that,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: if you take good notes and remind yourself in future years,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: I must go in there at this time of the
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: day and.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: The wind needs to be here. And it went wrong
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: when I did this.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: And when I took that left turn, I should have
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: went here, you know, all of those different things. We
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: do it through discussion and groupthink.
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: After the season, we'll break down the whole season. We'll
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: break down each.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Spot, and we just discuss and discuss and rediscuss and
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: go through each other's minds and try to figure out
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: a plan forward. If you've got a hunting buddy or
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: you've got somebody you can bounce thoughts off of, I
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: don't think it's a bad thing to call and say.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: Here's what I did wrong. Examine. Do you have any thoughts?
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: I have my own, but I think discussion is a
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: very powerful tool for deer hunters. You know, you can
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: see it on social media, but there's no substitution for,
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: you know, an oral conversation between two hunters that are both,
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: you know, wise to the ways of the world.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: That's such a great point. I have found on this
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: kind of topic that one of my frequent mistakes that
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: I keep making over the years and, and I know
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: it and I will like address it to myself or
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: a friend will point it out to me, but then
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: I kind of fall back into this is, is, is
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: getting stuck in like paralysis by analysis. I'll overanalyze things.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: I'll overthink things and then I'll get, you know, stuck
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: in a loop because of it. Um, like that's like,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: that's a common mistake of mine that I could look
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: back over so many years and see that I'm almost
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: overthinking it, making it too complicated and, Um, and I'm
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: curious if you have anything over the years that you
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: could look back on and say like, ah, this has
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: been a thing that I have done repeatedly. Here's a
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: common mistake that I make, or here's one of those
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: things that, gosh, I know I gotta, you know, learn
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: more about this or adjust this. And every year I
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: tend to fall back on it. Every few years I
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: make that same mistake again. Is there anything like that
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: for you? Or am I just uniquely bad at correcting
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: everything every year?
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. And that's, that's not all bad.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, I think the more you self-examine
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: and the more you criticize yourself, the better you're going
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: to become, you know, as a hunter and as a human,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: as far as that goes, you know, I think The
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: worst personality is one that thinks they just do everything
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: right every single day. I mean, you're never going to
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: learn and never going to get better. You know, almost
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: the narcissistic deer hunter, right? You know, you don't want
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: the narcissistic attitude with, I know everything, you know, you
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: really need to go into it and go.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: I only know what I know. What can I learn today?
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: So I think your approach is probably a wise one,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: although it'll cost you a lot of sleep.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: I do know that, particularly those trail photos.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: You know, you could sit there and examine and look
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff as they come in through those
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: cell reports. But you got to make sure. you stay
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: rested because if you spend too much time thinking and
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: not resting, you're not ready and you're not alert enough
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: the next day to go out and perform. I think
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: that's a very important aspect. It wasn't the question, but
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of guys run themselves down and
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: then aren't sharp and aren't focused.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: You need a lot of focus.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: To deer hunt because the sport in and of itself
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: will fatigue you just from looking, listening and watching, you know,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: trying to find a deer. So you got to stay rested.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: So you really need to give yourself, you know, this
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: is it. It's nine 30.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: I'm shutting. I'm not looking at another trail photo. I'm
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: going to bed.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: I'm getting my rest and we'll deal with it tomorrow.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: You know, those types of things. So, I think rest
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: is very important. And really, you don't hear people talking
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: about it, but I work my tail off throughout the day,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: each and every day for the entire season. But when
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: it comes 9 or 9.30, leave me alone because I'm
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: going to bed. I want to get a good night's
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: rest so I'm ready for the next day. And when
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: I was younger, I wasn't that way. You know, I
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: was the guy up having a few beers, you know,
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: talking with my.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: Buddies, all that good stuff.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: All of a sudden it's 12, 31 o'clock.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: Oh, wait a minute.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: We got to get up at five in the morning.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: And then you're, you're not, you're not rested. And anymore,
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: as I age, I'll be 60 in October.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: That rest is so important.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: That would be one, one piece of advice I could
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: give all of your younger listeners. Prioritize rest when you're
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: young and you'll be a better deer hunter just because
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: you're focused and you're ready for the day.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: It's interesting you bring that up because this is actually
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: somewhere where I've changed my mind a little bit. Or
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: at least evolved some. But not as much at night,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: but during the day. And I'm interested in what your
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: take has been on this and how that's evolved at
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: all with you. So when I first became really, really
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: diehard about whitetails, like trying to kill mature bucks, I
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: was of the mind that during the rut, Of course,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: there's increased daylight movement. And in the middle of the day,
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: there's going to be those bumps on certain days during
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: certain conditions. And so there is no excuse to not
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: be out there every single hour of every single day
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: because you need to give 1,000% effort, right? And so
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: I would hunt 21 straight days, 13 hours a day,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: whatever it might be. And I would grind myself to
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: an absolute pulp because I wanted to do as much
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: as I possibly could do to maximize success, right? Um,
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: but then what I found is that I would burn
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: myself out. I would be so exhausted, so, uh, you know,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: stressed almost in physically and mentally by all of that, that,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I ended up losing my focus. I ended
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: up not performing as well in the field. I ended
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: up not enjoying it as much. And then because of that,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: not doing all the other, many other little things you
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: need to do.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Um, and so in recent years, I've started to adjust
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: that a little bit, still sometimes hunting all day, but
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: also sometimes giving myself permission, like When your buddies are
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: visiting for the week, you should see them at lunch
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: and enjoy that camaraderie. Or maybe take a day off
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: and reset your body and then be ready to be very,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: very focused for the next seven days or whatever it
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: might be. What's that look like for you?
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: It is similar to that. I don't hunt nearly as many.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Middays because of FOMO, which is your fear of missing
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: a deer.
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: My goodness, what if he walks today at noon? And
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: I'm not there.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: I remember back in the day, Terry and I would
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: sit all day, every day. And Terry sits longer hours
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: than I do. But I try to stay rested at night.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: And then I also try to give myself mental breaks
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: throughout the season. If there is a period that we
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: focus the hardest, it's October and December. We hunt harder
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: in October and December than we do in November. November,
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: I hunt hard, but I don't hunt nearly as hard
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: as I used to because of the sporadic nature of
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: the hunt and them being locked down with those. I
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: will give it my all up through about the 9th
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: or 10th. And when they lock down, that like 11th
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: or 12th through about the 17th, I generally take a
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: fairly decent breakthrough there where I just don't quite hunt
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: as hard just to give myself a break right in
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: the middle part of the season because I just went
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: through all of October and then I'm going to rest
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: up and get ready for December because.
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: Frankly, in my opinion.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: Bucktober and deercember are the best two times to kill
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: those bucks when they're not with the does as opposed
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: to trying to kill them with the does. Now, that's
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: on my farms and how we hunt. And I've lost
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: a bunch of deer.
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: During the rut. You know, they wander and they go
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: get killed and so on and so forth.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: But the way I hunt and the way I've had
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: the most success, we kill the bulk of our deer
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: in October and December.
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: We kill several in November as well.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: We're lucky in the fact that Missouri opens up rifle
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: season in November, and we enjoy that camaraderie around rifle camp.
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: And we go out and we partake.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: But the long and short of it is, through the years,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: the bulk of the movement we see are the first
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: two hours and the last two hours of the day. Yes,
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: there is sporadic movement throughout the middle part of the day,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: but it still doesn't match up to what is the
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: first couple and the last couple overall, you know, and
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: there's been a bunch of studies that show that as well.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: If you really want to hit the bulk of the movement,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: at least 80% of it, go sit the first two
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: or three and the last two or three, and you're
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: going to see about 80 plus percent of the movement
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: in any given day. Peak of the rut, full moon,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: that may not be true, but most of the season
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: that statement is fairly true.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And gosh, I would rather see 85% of
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: the movement when I'm feeling 100% and operating at 100%
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: versus being out there for 100% of the movement but
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: operating at 50%.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: You said it right there. Yeah. You need a t-shirt.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Shorten that up and create a t-shirt.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: I'll work on that.
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: An avalanche promo with an X through it, you know? Yeah.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Gosh, that has plagued me for many years, that's for sure.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: End it.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: At the end of the day, so what if you
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: don't kill him?
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Very true.
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: Does it change you?
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Does it change your life, your children, your wife, your
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: relationship if you don't kill him?
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: No.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: It changes your mental, your own personal desire and perhaps ego.
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: Let's all admit it. We as deer hunters have egos.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: We want to kill that big deer just to satisfy
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: our own drive and our own ego.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: But at the end of the day.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: As I age, my perspective on what it means isn't
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: anything close to what I felt when.
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: I was in my 30s and 40s at all.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: What led to that? Was there a moment or a
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: period of your life or a specific deer or anything
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: where you all of a sudden that clicked for you
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: and you realized, ah, this isn't life or death or
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: whatever that moment was like for you?
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: No, I think as you age, we all get a
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: bit more spiritual. Our work with Catch a Dream has
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: affected me a lot. Many of the people in my
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: life have affected me a lot. My wife has affected
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: me greatly. She's not a hunter. So I've lived with
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: her approach and aspect to life my entire life. And
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: I draw on that a great deal because she has
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: no interest in killing an animal. She has no interest
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: in hunting or going out whatsoever. So I don't want
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: to say that it's changed me, but it affects me.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: it affects my overall approach to things. I'm still just
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: as passionate as I've ever been, but I don't quite go.
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: Over the top.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Like I used to when I was 30 and 40
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: for sure, but I'm.
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: Still just as passionate.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: I still go, you know, 12, 13 hours a day,
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: every day, all day.
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: And I love taking other people hunting and I love it.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: Just absolutely eat, sleep and breathe being with someone else
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: and seeing them get that reaction or, that excitement of
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: killing a deer the other night. When Wyatt shot that deer, buddy,
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: if I could have bottled that up, I would just
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: have that emotion day in and day out. He was
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: so excited to see that deer come and then make
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: a heart shot, you know, with his.
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: 350 Legend.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: And it was just, there's nothing like it, seeing somebody
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: else succeed out there in the outdoors. Because you know
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: he's got his whole life ahead of him, right? And
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: here I am at age 60, I don't know how
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: many years I got left. I'm probably starting the fourth quarter, frankly,
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: you know? Um, so, you know, I like seeing other
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: people enjoy it now more, more so than myself in
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: all honesty.
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: And I think everyone.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Goes through that natural evolution as a, as a hunter,
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: you know, passing on becomes more and more important. I
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: just traded a text with my son-in-law the other day
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: about that, that very thing.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: When you were 30, let's say, give or take, how
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: did you define deer hunting success?
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: Killing a big bot, man.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: That's all it was. Yeah, exactly.
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: Find a big mature one and go kill him. Look
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: at me, you know?
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, exactly.
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: And so now you're almost 60. Did you just turn
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: 60 or almost 60?
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: I will in October.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: Okay. Happy early birthday.
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: How do you define success today?
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: Success today to me is, is leaving things better than
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: I found them. I am big in habitat and I'm
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: big in improvement. Seeing poults hatch, seeing fawns, seeing a
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: herd that's more balanced. It's conservation type subjects as opposed.
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: To going out and trying just to kill a big deer.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: It's about them, the resource, not me or a trophy wall,
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: if you will. It's about everything else as opposed to
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: trying to kill that big deer.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong. I'm hunting big deer and I
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: want to kill that big.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Deer, but those are the things that are a little
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: bit more prioritized than, than that moment.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, speaking of conservation, I saw that you were awarded, uh,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: by the state of Missouri, a conservation award, Mark. So
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: congratulations on that.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: Thank you. I appreciate that. We were honored to go
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: there and it was an honor to have mom there
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: with us that night. That was, that was fun.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Well, well deserved. Um, And I feel like this is
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: a perfect place to kind of wrap it up because,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: you know, the impetus for this was just trying to
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: explore a little bit of your evolution. And as I've
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: been thinking about my own evolution, I think that, you know,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: so many of the things that have shifted for me
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: and that I thought were important were, you know, how
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: do I get better at using the wind? Or how
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: do I use my cameras better? Or how do I
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: set up my access or exit? But probably the thing
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: that has made my deer hunting better has shifted my
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: deer hunting the most in recent years, and has probably
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: led to me being a better deer hunter now, has
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: just been redefining success more than anything. It's just been
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: getting comfortable with who I am as a hunter and
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: figuring out what success means for me. And once I
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: kind of got that, everything else started getting put into place.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: And because of that, I think that's unlocked, I think,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of great years ahead of me. And I
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: think I've, I imagine a lot of us have seen
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: you go through a similar evolution and it's been very
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: interesting to kind of hear you talk us through that.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: So thank you, Mark.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: Oh, my pleasure.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's, as you age, you don't have any
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: choice because you're not as good.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: As you were, right?
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: I can't pull the pounds I used to pull. I
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: can't shoot the groups I used to pull. I can't walk,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: you know, as far as I used to or at
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: the speed that I once did. So age is a
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: it'll humble you. I'll promise you, you know, and I
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: still look to brother Terry. He just turned 70. So
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: my whole life, I've always like, well, I got at
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: least 10 years left, right?
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: And here he is, here he is 70 years old.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: And just out there kicking butt, man. And his, his
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: passion motivates me. And here's mom at 93. I got
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: a text last night. She was like, I can't wait
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: to go with Terry. He and Forrest have plans of
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: where I'm going to sit. They think they've got some
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: good deer I can go hunt. I'm going through physical therapy.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: I'm having trouble with my legs, but by darn, I
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: can't wait to get out there and go hunting. Then
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: I want to come up and hunt with you during
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: rifle season. That's the stuff we were texting about last night.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: She's 93, so what a motivator. You can look to
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: other people in your life and help motivate you and
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: also reset your overall expectations.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what an inspiration. She's amazing.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: She is.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: That's really pretty amazing.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: She is amazing.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: She's killed two deer three years in a row, and
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: she has also killed at least one archery deer, now
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: with a crossbow, four years in a row.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: But three years in a row, she's killed two different bucks.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Good for her.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: So at ages 92, 91, 90, and then 89. We
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: can all hope to be so lucky, right? I'm telling you.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you, we could all hope to be so lucky.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: And I think it, I look back at mom's upbringing.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: She was raised dirt floor poor on a farm, three.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: Other sisters, milking cows at 5 a.m. every day before school.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: And to this day, when she walks in a house,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: she will take something and wipe the bottom of her
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: shoes off to clean them off. She will use a
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: paper towel, hang it up to dry it. She is
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: the most conservative lady you will ever meet ever. And
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: I think it is all in your raising. Look what
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: she went through, through the Great Depression and all of
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: those different periods in her life. Look at how we're
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: raising our kids now with excess and surplus. What is
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: society going to be like in 60, 70 more years?
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: Sometimes giving everybody everything is not a great thing. Sometimes
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: you've got to make sure people are earning it.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Man, that's the truth. That's an entirely... different podcasts we
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: could do someday but I do feel like hunting and
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: fishing but hunting in the outdoors in general is such
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: a great way to still provide some of that challenge
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: and hardship and necessity for perseverance like that's such a
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: great way to teach some of those things to kids
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: today in this strange new world we're in but.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah literally it is it's the best way no such
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: thing as being in a bad mood when you're out
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: in the woods I go out every day in some
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: way shape or form I'm outdoors trying to do something
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: We moved to the farm, and man, I just can't
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: get enough of it.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: In-season, off-season, whatever it is, it's amazing.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: That's the good stuff, Mark. Well, real quick before I
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: let you go, what's the latest on the Drury Outdoors side?
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: What should folks be looking for? What should they be
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: checking out on the app? Is there anything you want
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: people to know about?
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: There's so many different ways to reach out to us
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: or follow what we're doing.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: DeerCast is the number one.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: We put the kills up there before they go anywhere
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: else so you get to see the shots. all the
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: different aspects within DeerCast have just continued to improve and improve.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: The algorithm's as sharp as it's ever been. DeerCast Track,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: still one of the biggest, most important parts of that app.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: The food plot planner, I don't know if you saw
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: the ads we did for that, but you now can
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: go in, trace a food plot, And it'll tell you
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: the chemicals, the chemical application, the fertilizer, the seed rate,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: everything just based on the size, the algorithm, you know,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: does all the rest of that for you. So what
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: is traditionally been one of the questions we get most,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: how much of this, how much of that, what do
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: we do? It's kind of a confusing subject. The plot
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: planner breaks all that down for you. So that's a
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: brand new aspect of DeerCast. But you can also catch
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: us on Facebook, Instagram. And of course, our YouTube series
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: just continues to grow and grow and grow. I was
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: talking to Taylor yesterday. she killed that deer. We had
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: the hunt produced within, I think five days. And within
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: the first five days of it being on YouTube, it
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: had a million minutes viewed already, you know, 200,000 views.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: It's just incredible how the light speed at.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: Which everyone can enjoy and share in the moment and.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: Learn from what we're learning. It goes back to that discussion,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: you know, um, why not watch it? I love watching
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: some of my favorite stuff. You know, I like watching
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: the guys at seek one and the hunting public. And
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: I still love the real tree guys and the Mossy
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: Oak guys, the bone collector guys.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: I'm still a fan of all that stuff.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: So I've, I have a tendency to, you know, when
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: I see a real come through, I'll stop and watch it.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: And it brings me back to, you know, especially those
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: real tree classic stuff or Mossy Oak classic stuff. I
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: love seeing that stuff, you know, it's a, it's fun
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: to kind of drift back a little bit and, and, um, and,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Remind me of when I was 30 and 40 and
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: the things I got excited about.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: So true. Well, uh, I appreciate that you guys are
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: still putting it out, still doing such a great job,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: keeping us entertained and educated and, uh, and you're still
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: learning and we're still learning alongside you. And that's, that's
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: encouraging to me. So thank you.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: How many episodes is this for you?
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, Mark, this is like a thousand 80 or
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: something like that. It's crazy.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: Those working class bow hunter guys, when they do like
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: a 700 or an 800, they'll go for eight hours.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: So did you do 10 hours for your thousandth?
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: No, I don't have that kind of longevity. I've got
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: two kids, Mark. They've taken that kind of energy out
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: of me.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: You'd need a lot of gas and a lot of
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: alcohol like those guys do.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, I sure would. It sure would.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: Well, congratulations on your monumental, I mean, over a thousand episodes. Man,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: that is so, that's super good for you, Mark.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: A lot of information out there. How do you keep
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: it fresh? How do you, How do you do it, man?
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: That is one of the biggest challenges, Mark, constantly trying
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: to think of. I mean, that's why conversations like this
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: come about. It's like, okay, how can we rethink something
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: or look and try to see how have we evolved?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: Or I'll dive really deep into some narrow slice. I
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: think some of those are our best episodes. Like, you know,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: our chat last year when I just asked you nothing
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: but wind-related questions. I think that's somehow how I'm able
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: to find those new angles on things. You're right. It's hard.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: And I think there's a lot of people trying to
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: do this kind of stuff. And there's only so many
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: different people and so many different topics. So that's what
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: I have to get up in the morning and figure out.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: And I'm very thankful to get to do it.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: How many do you do? What's your pace? Like X
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: amount per week?
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so we do one new regular Wired to Hunt
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: episode every week. And then we've kind of shifted a
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: little bit. I've got a kind of a co-host that
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: does one every other week with me. And then another
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: guy that does one every single week, but it's a
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: different format. It's like a, like a monologue on one topic,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: like a 15 minute deep dive on something. So we have,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: you know, three different episodes coming out every week in
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: different styles and formats with three different voices now.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow. Good for you guys. That's awesome.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, there's no shortage of information these days.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: That's for sure. Where do you take it from here?
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: Oh man. You know, I would say that most, the, the,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: The next step for me has actually been diversifying. So
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: I have kind of along your lines, Mark, and I
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: don't know if you saw this, but I took on
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: a new role at Meteor. I'm now our director of conservation.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: I saw that. Good for you.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. So in addition to the whitetail stuff, yeah,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: I'm doing more and more on that conservation side. So
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: I actually have a conservation-focused podcast. too, doing more of
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: this kind of big-picture stuff as, you know, similar trajectory
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: to you, right? It went from I used to just
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: want to kill big bucks, and now I still want
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: to kill big bucks, but I also want to make
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: sure we have wild places and healthy deer herds and
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: healthy wildlife of all types that my kids and your
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: kids and others can enjoy in the future. And so
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: that's been... kind of that next era for me has
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: been stepping into that world.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: You know, one of the greatest conservationists I've met through my.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: Life is Rob Kick. I don't know if you've ever
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: had him on your show.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: I haven't.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: He would be a great guest if you just sat
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: back and said, how can I do my job the best?
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: He was the president of the NWTF and then he
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: became the director of conservation.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: At Bass Pro Shops. He was the guy behind Wonders
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: of Wildlife.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: He directed that entire project like Rob would be a
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: fantastic phone call for you, whether he'd be a guest
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: or just advice, man. He's got it going on. He
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: really eats, sleeps, and breathes conservation. He has for 40 years.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: That's a great suggestion. I'll be bugging you for some
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: contact info, I think.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. He's a good one. He's a treasure. He's a
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: national treasure, as far as I'm concerned.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: You know, it's going to be weird for you, but
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: someday people are going to be saying that about you.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: No, no, they won't. They're going to be you. They're
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: going to be you. I don't have to listen to
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: that guy anymore.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: Good riddance. Mark, I always appreciate these chats. I always
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. I wish we could do more. If I
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: was in your neck of the woods, I'd love to
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: get coffee every once in a while. But thank you.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: Thank you for doing this.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: It'd be a long coffee.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: That's true. Maybe one of these days I'll sneak over
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: to Iowa. We'll make it happen.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: Go there for breakfast and end up eating lunch.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: All right, Mark.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you. Keep up all the great work and
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: good luck out there.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: Blessings.