Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Student Choreography

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Student Choreography · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_04: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_04: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance, from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_04: If you're a dancer, chances are you remember the first time you created a dance routine, whether that was in the front yard as a little kid or in your bedroom as a teenager.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_04: Letting choreographers get their start in all kinds of places, and if they're lucky, they have the support of their dance teachers along the way.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_04: Chatting with us today are former student choreographer Mary Hundel and current dance educator and IDA judge Lauren Alto about the benefits of student choreography in the competitive dance world.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: Hey dance world, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I am here with my fabulous co-host, Leslie Mueller.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_04: Hi, listeners, and hi Courtney, and happy belated birthday.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, thank you.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: I am pumped to be celebrating another birthday.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: Another it's a 33 for me.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: This is my 33rd birthday.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Feels very weird to say that, but I'm really excited to be in my 30s.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: 30s have been, even though you know there's been a global pandemic and um it's a weird past few years.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: I will say overall that I'm I'm really happy with my 30s and time here so far.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_04: That's good.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: That's good to hear.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: I like that.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I hope you had a great day.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I did.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm hoping I did.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's the future right now.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_04: It's the future, but I hope I hope you did.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: Do.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, we are about to jump into the heat of the competition season.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: So if there's any listeners out there who have already been attending events, congratulations, you're kicking it off nice and early.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: But the the heat of the season is about to get in full swing.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: We have judges going out at events all around the country.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: And guess what?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: If you didn't know, we decided to relaunch our very popular IDA virtual competition.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: It is now open again on our website, and you can submit your solo now to enter into our virtual event where you'll compete with dancers from around the world.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: And truly, we get people from everywhere entering into our event.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: It just opened registrations on February 15th, and we're going to be accepting rolling submissions all the way until April 30th.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: So we have plenty of time to get those solos filmed and prepared and sent in.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: And we revamped the format just a little bit.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: So you can learn a little bit more about that on our website.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: And you will receive lots of detailed feedback from an IDA judge.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: You'll receive a IDA virtual competition patch mailed straight to you, as well as a broken down score sheet, which will show you where those deductions came from in what categories.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: We're so excited to be relaunching our virtual competition.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: So if you would like to enter, entries are$55 and you can submit your solo now at ImpactDance Adjudicators.com/slash virtual competition.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and Courtney, I am just always have to give ourselves a pat on the back because the virtual comp is no small deal.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's a lot of work and we do love it.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I think this is what competition number nine or something.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's like nine or ten total.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_04: So we're just happy that everybody is still interested and helping give our judges a little extra work on top of all the work we're already doing.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_04: So we appreciate you guys.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_04: If you guys haven't heard, which I'm sure you have, if you're longtime listeners, we started a new, a new thing this year.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: It's called Buy Me a Coffee.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_04: And it is basically just an opportunity for you as a listener to support the podcast in another way.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_04: So if you have a few dollars to throw our way, if you like what you hear and appreciate uh the work that we do on this podcast, you can buy us a coffee.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_04: You can go to kofi.com slash making the impact.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_04: The link is in our show notes.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_04: And we would just really appreciate your support.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_04: And we've gotten so many great reviews and supporters there as well over the season.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I would love to shout out to my friend Shannon Thomas, my double from college.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_04: She's donated a Kofi donation and says, keep up the good work.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_04: So thanks, girl.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_04: And then we also have somebody named Kim who says, Thank you for building such an open and authentic community.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: Aw.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, you're welcome, Kim.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_04: And we are grateful that you feel that way.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what we try to do.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much to all of our fans, all of our supporters, and everyone who's donated to us on Kofi.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: All right, and we can't produce this fabulous podcast without our wonderful sponsors who love and support what we're doing over here at Making the Impact.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: And we would love to share with you one of our sponsors, which is Dance Costumes by Urzua.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: If you are still in need of a few last-minute costumes before you hit the stage this season, Dance Costumes by Urzua is here to help.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Dance Costumes by Urzua offers high-end custom, one-of-a-kind costumes for all genres of dance.
• 5:12
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• 5:18
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• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: And you can also check out the Urzua Dancewear line, which features semi-custom tanks, leotards, bikers, leggings, sports bras, and more for class and convention.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: Use our exclusive podcast promo code on your next order to receive 15% off all costumes or dancewear.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: Use the code Impact15 in all caps now at dancecostumes by Urzua.com.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: All right, everybody.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: So today we are talking about student choreography, which I am really excited to chat about.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: And also, Leslie, and tell me if I'm speaking the truth.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think that our podcast community requested this specific topic last season as one they'd like to hear.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_04: You do speak the truth.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um you always speak the truth, but yes, this is true.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_04: Uh we we did.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_04: We did a poll uh last season of the well, I guess it wasn't last season, it was this season, early this season, uh, when we released that community.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, this was one of the number one requests.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's because, you know, it's more so something that studios are offering now.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_04: I think back in the day for a lot of us, student choreography was something you just sort of dabbled in on your own time without any support or help or instruction until maybe you got to college.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_04: But now I think there's there's so many outlets for creativity.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I think studios are realizing that kids want more and more opportunities to be creative on their own and are able to s provide that support in the studio.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_04: So I I do think that that's kind of why we saw this topic jump up to the top of the list for people.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I can't wait for you to meet our special guests who are joining us today.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to welcome back a returning guest to our podcast, but you haven't heard this guest on our pod since season one, episode 15, competition kindness etiquette at the event.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very excited to welcome back IDA Judge Lauren Auto to the podcast.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Lauren.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much, Courtney.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm so excited to be back.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Leslie told me this was episode 92, which is amazing.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so happy to return from that episode in the first season.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's now my third or fourth season with IDA, which I love it.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: I love being part of this community.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm so excited to share with everyone again today.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: And just to tell you a little bit more about my background in addition to the judging, my professional performance career was mainly in contemporary dance.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: I worked with a contemporary company based out of Cincinnati.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I've actually spent the bulk of my working professional career teaching.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I've taught in a bunch of different settings, the K5 public schools, private high schools, multiple studios, studio directing, coaching, things like that.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I love bringing in the choreography aspect.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm so excited that this was something that our community requested.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really happy to talk about that and hopefully everybody learned something new today.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: I know I'm excited to chat about it too.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm happy to have you back on the pod.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much for joining us.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: All right, and our next special guest is a unique guest because brand new guest to the podcast, but also a current student in college.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like I've gotten to know this dancer through the years because she utilized IDA's online critique service throughout the years as a student choreographer herself.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I knew that she'd be the perfect person to speak on this topic from the actual student perspective.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I am very excited to welcome Mary Handel to the podcast.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Mary.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an OG podcast listener in the Facebook group.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love to listen to everything you guys have to say.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_04: Well, thanks.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_04: We like having you here.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we're so excited to have you and love having fans on the podcast as well.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: So thanks for supporting us from the beginning.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, if you wouldn't mind sharing with the dance world out there, Mary, a little bit more about who you are, where you're originally based, what you're up to now, and maybe what you're looking forward to in your dance career in the future.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm from Burlington, Vermont, and I started dancing when I was nine.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was a rec kid for years, like once a week, jazz classes, but I started competing in middle school because of dance moms.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I really wanted to be a choreographer.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've been creating solos since I was 11.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started to switch my focus to more like pre-professional dancing, danced at Fusion 802 under the direction of Nicola Bootin, one of the best teachers ever, if she's listening.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I am now a sophomore at Point Park University, getting my BFA with a jazz concentration.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm currently a cast member with the Enchanted Experiences.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And after college, I would love to be a judge and dance on a cruise ship or become a studio owner.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really passionate about teaching and choreography.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: So you do, I I mean, obviously you have a passion for choreography since you were young, but do you think you're gonna dabble into the performance aspects of the dance world or go straight into choreo?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to start, you know, performing.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to dance for Disney or maybe do Broadway, but ultimately I see myself on the other side of things as an educator.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like growing up creating for myself, I did a lot of like recording myself and like analyzing.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm super into like seeing the details and like what to fix.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't start out with an amazing facility, so I really had to like learn the best ways to make things work, and that really translates well when I'm teaching at home.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think you're gonna if you do go into that pro professional performance world, I think you'll make a great little dance captain.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because those details matter and you have to have an eye for that, and you already have an eye for that.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: So love hearing it.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thanks for joining Mary and Lauren.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Let's jump into this episode.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: Let's jump in.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and a side note, Courtney, I was trying to see.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_04: I almost I almost feel like Mary, you might have been the very first person in our Facebook group.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, really.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure I was.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I saw it like in one of the episodes.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: You guys were like, We're starting a Facebook group.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, so this is where I need to be, clearly.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right, like I guess it's me.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't post a lot, but I read them all the time.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: You think I voted for student choreography as a topic?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh love that.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: Which, by the way, listeners, go join our Facebook group.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: If you haven't joined it, just putting that out there.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, there's some really good discussions over there after some of the episodes.
• 12:21
  unknown: Oh, yeah.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_04: We are especially season three.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: Season three is people have some opinions.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: Well, so we've heard a little bit about Mary's early student choreography experiences.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: And Lauren, so I'm curious, did you grow up choreographing for yourself at all or mess like dabbling in it?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_04: Or what was your experience like?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I did always kind of, like you said, dabble.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think back when, back in the day when I was dancing, it wasn't as structured in the studio like you mentioned, Leslie.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: It was kind of something like you did on your own.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: I literally remembered like five minutes before this podcast, I did compete a self-core solo one year though.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was how did that go over?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it was like wild.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was wild.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because it was like one of those things where I just I had another solo.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: I was wanting to do it.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think the director just like let me loose to do it, and it didn't have a lot of feedback or structure.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, like I thought it was it, you know.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, this is amazing, but now I'm like, oh, that's why I kind of forgot I did that.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, the teacher guidance and that is huge.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then I then I think the next year I competed like musical theater and point or something.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was always trying to do different styles.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that's something cool with self-core.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: If if we have any dancers out there that are like, hey, I'm contemporary all the way.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe push yourself into another category too and see what else you can learn with that.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I like I said, I don't think there was as much of a structured thing when I was in the high school and studio stage.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then as I started to go into college and performance, then the improv was definitely encouraged more and the choreo creating from there.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: I really like what you said about, you know, pushing your own boundaries as a choreographer and it and you know, changing it up a bit.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of as we discover who we are as choreographers, I think that we sometimes do find our little path as far as I'm just a contemporary dancer, so I'm just gonna choreograph contemporary.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: But as young dancers evolve into being an overall choreographer, you have to remember, and we say it all the time on the podcast, that versatility is important.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: So knowing even how to not just dance different styles, but choreograph different styles.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: If your goal down the road is to be a dance teacher in a studio setting, they want to be able to hire people that can, oh, you can cover the jazz and the lyrical.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_04: Do the whole night of classes.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and if you have, if your choreography is great and it's just about trying to figure out, well, how do I tweak it to make it lyrical versus contemporary versus jazz or whatever your genres are, the more you explore that while you're young, then the more hireable you will be later down the road.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: I just had a flashback, Lauren, as you were saying, I just remembered that I did this thing in high school.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_04: I just remembered that I we there was a student choreography like showcase at another studio in our town when I was in middle school.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: And we had some connections there.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_04: And so me, my sister, and one of my best friends entered.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I remembered at that time, and I think maybe this is a lot of why some younger people, young people, get into student choreography is because they want to do something that they can't do at the studio.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_04: They're not allowed to do, they aren't being taught.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: And at the time, you know, it was what 1998.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_04: So like lyrical was the thing.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_04: Celine Dion lyrical was the thing.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_04: And we were not doing that at my studio, but that's what we wanted to do.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_04: So we choreographed this probably very I don't remember anything about it except for that it was dramatic and we did it ourselves.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_04: And there was a lot of like reaching to love you more by Celine Dion, which is just, you know, it's just a big, huge song, as all of her songs are.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_04: But like that's the reason that I wanted to explore was because I was like, all we're doing is this, but I want to do this.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I can't really leave my studio because it's my mom's studio, but I can at least, you know, try to do something different.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_04: Courtney, did you ever choreograph for yourself?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: As you were sitting here telling me your story, then I started trickling back into my memory and was like, have I ever done choreography?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so, and I'm it's very I I really can't remember like the logistics of what my studio did with this, but there was a point in time during my training at my studio back in Maryland where we did a student choreography showcase, I think as like a training tool.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: And we had a really large studio space that could like kind of makeshift into into like we set up chairs and there's lights.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: So they just did that one weekend.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I specifically remember I did it, I think it was a duet with two of the fiercest little younger dancers at the studio.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: It was to No Doubts, I'm Just a Girl.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_04: Wait, so you choreographed it on them?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I choreographed it on them.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I picked the song.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: It was obviously jazz.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh No Doubt, Love No Doubt.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: No doubt, Love No Doubt.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I very much remember going to Hot Topic and and getting Hello Kitty pink shirt with like black and white and pink, because like I was that was so I was so into that then.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I rhinestoned that darn Hello Kitty, like perfect for the student choreography.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, because that's what we did it, you know, like it's competition, but in my head, it was my competition.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I wanted to make it perfect.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I don't remember it being good.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: I remember it being good because the dancers were good, but the choreography wasn't good, if that makes sense.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: But I was grateful that my studio offered some type of opportunity like that to just like all right, we have a few rehearsals, we're gonna get into the room, and it's it's really interesting being on the other side of it and working with dancers and trying to get your vision out to them.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a whole new ball game, as a brand new like you might understand how to choreograph on yourself for yourself what feels good for you, but how how do you then teach it to someone else as a young dancer?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: That Mayor, do you have any experience doing that?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure you do.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so my senior year, I did my first group dance.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was like my senior tribute for my little babies that I'd grown up dancing with, and it was really sad and lyrical and pretty, but it was really hard to just get them to see you as a teacher, not as much like executing the vision, but when you've grown up with these girls and they were like, you know, 11, 12, and I was like 16, 17.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they thought it was fun and we were so gonna hang out, like we always would do at competitions, but I was like, no, you have to listen for this, you know, hour that we're gonna work on this dance and your technique and everything.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that was the hardest thing is like when the age range is so close because when you're a more seasoned teacher, you're a lot older and they're usually not kids you necessarily have grown up with, but getting to teach them was a good learning experience explaining your process to somebody else because they're not gonna get it like your choreography sits in your own body.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: And when you were able to do that, was that something your studio asked you to do, or was that something you asked to do?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: They asked me if I wanted to do it because the girls asked if I would choreograph for them because I'd done solos for years and they like loved watching them, and their moms really liked all of my pieces.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was super grateful that they approached me about it and I was like, I've never done this.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was really nervous, but now I choreograph a lot of pieces for the studio every year, and so I'm a lot more comfortable with it now, but it was very scary in the beginning.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_04: And let's go back a little, Mary, because we I you had told us that you started choreographing for yourself when you were 11.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_04: What was that experience like in terms of like how did you decide that's what you wanted to do?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_04: What was the impetus for it?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_04: And how was your your first couple times?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was like in elementary school, I used to choreograph for my friends and we would pretend we were on dance mobs, and I would build them little trophies and paint them.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to enter the school talent show when I was in sixth grade, and I was like, I was watching lyrical was like booming on YouTube, and I remember just seeing all these like viral videos, and I was like, I think I can do that.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I never took a lyrical class, I didn't even take ballet, just took jazz, but I was like, I can do that.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I taught myself the tricks and like all the little ballet basics, and I made a solo and I auditioned it for this talent show, and then I got to be the finale, and I was like, and people really liked it, and I didn't know that they were gonna like my dancing like that.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's when I started to focus, and I was like, I want to start being seriously trained because I think something could be here.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it was really hard.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have mirrors, I did it in my living room.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: There was no floor, it was a carpet, on my discount dance, little dress.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's definitely like getting a studio like over time to work on it has made the process easier.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember that was just a very interesting experience.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that just goes to show like if you want something, you're gonna figure out a way to do it, even if it's not the perfect way to do it.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's you know, you figured it out.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's awesome.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, Varen, I know that you mentioned previously to me that your current studio that you work with does do some student choreography elements into their studio.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: Is that true?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, yes, so we do.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: I would say primarily it's been for performances or showcases and not as much a competition.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: We have had some compete though with them, uh, pretty much usually in the advanced senior category.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been a couple advanced senior solos, a couple advanced senior duos that were students that just were ready for a new challenge.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe they had been doing continuous.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Contemporary forever.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: They had done, I guess, contemporary choreography or mine a million times and they wanted to do something new.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: And they had that base down.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: So for them to just go compete in other contemporary solo, like cool, that's still a great learning experience.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: You're still going to get awesome feedback.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: But to go do it as a self-core was just a new level of growth as an artist.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's a different learning experience.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: They're finding their voice, they're pushing their artistry, they're like learning all those aspects of choreo where that's where we decided, hey, yeah, this is okay.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Go complete like a self-core solo because what you're gonna get value-wise out of that is going to be higher than just continuing to do the same thing.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now, some kids I think maybe aren't totally ready for that.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's completely fine.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like maybe that's the instance where, hey, like let's do a solo for a showcase or to share in class or for a recital and maybe not compete it yet.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I think because the owner of the studio has done such a good job of creating that culture of it's okay to create and it's okay to share choreo, and there's a good mentoring sort of program at the studio where those older dancers are teaching younger dancers.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's so involved in the whole studio vibe, I think, that that's why it's something that's encouraged and that we've felt it's okay to showcase and and give students those opportunities.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_04: That sounds so like inclusive and lovely.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_04: What a what a nice sounding studio.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, she is a lovely owner for sure.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's something that I think you can see.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: There are just like we all kind of talked about our first little choreo pieces, right?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: And we probably thought those were awesome at the time.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like I know I did.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that feeling of like pride and accomplishment that you get, that's so worth it.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Even if this it wasn't your best choreo.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe everybody thought it was like crazy, or you look back years later, like I am now, and I'm like, what was I doing?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: At the time, I was like, Yes, I made up this dance.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: I too rhinestone to costume Courtney.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: You reminded me that I was like, bedazzling this, I'm competing this, and like that level of ownership, especially as a younger dancer, is huge.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like win or lose, that's something really cool to take away with you.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think that kind of like what I mentioned before, like what's so exciting about student choreography for many dancers, once they finally discover it, is how comfortable they are in that movement.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, especially if it's a solo.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: If you are, I feel like every dancer in the world, if you you're meant to dance, you dance all the time, even when you don't even realize it.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: You get home from dance, you're in your bedroom, you put a song on and you're dancing, you're improving.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: That eventually you know what feels good for you.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Then when you actually put it to a song with musicality, with transitions, with a little bit more structure, you've created this beautiful self-chore graphed solo that works well on your body.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that when it comes to self-choreographed routines at competition, and Leslie and Larn, you can let me know, even Mary too.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like there's not many competitions that have like a student choreography section.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I think they should because it's a perfect opportunity to get three new perspectives and uh giving choreography notes to a student when normally we aren't allowed to talk about choreography to the teachers.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: So this is like, I think that dance competition should fully take advantage of hey, everybody, it's it shouldn't just be an announcement that this was self-choreographed, it should be like a student choreography section in the competition, like a separate competition almost that can still place with everybody else.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: But for us to really give those tools to help that new brand new choreographer succeed, maybe that transition isn't really working.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe their teacher didn't guide them, or maybe the teacher didn't catch it, you know, things like that.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_04: Or maybe the teacher wasn't even involved, but I can definitely see how that's part of it too.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Which is what was so cool, Mary, about you, because you would always send us our online critiques and you can actually make requests when people send in online critiques.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, hey, what do you think about this choreography?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: This is self-choreographed, and I'm not sure.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: And what about this one transition that happens at 130 in the dance?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, things like that.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: You can actually make requests, you can't do that at regular competitions.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel like you taking advantage of that throughout the years probably really helped you grow and see things as a new perspective coming straight from a professional.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't get guided with the process at my studio.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, I want to do a self-quarry gap solo.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so they would like let me, but nobody really helped me through it.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was mostly my mom would come and record me once at the end of my practice, and then I would watch that video all over until my next practice.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like my teachers didn't know what to say that would like they didn't want to offend me or like my style was really branching out from what my studio did.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like they didn't have a lot of experience with like I did a lot of instrumental, like I wanted to create my own stories and not like follow.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so getting critiques online was the only way I really got affirmation if something was working or not until I got to competitions because my studio would always just say, like, oh, you look pretty, or like something about a technical element, like, oh, you bobbled on that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: But like I wanted, you know, that artistry feedback and like the transitions and all of the nitty-gritty stuff that really makes a piece dynamic and not just like, oh, you weren't turned out in your fourth position.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_04: Like, right.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and like you said, Courtney, you know, I think I think at Spirit we do we have awards that we can give away that are student choreography awards, and it's always announced.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you entered as a student choreographer, it will be announced as such.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_04: It's not necessarily a category, I don't think, but Mike, it's sort of my favorite thing in the world at other competitions that I've judged when you know the first overall person comes up for their solo and you know you get to talk about it for a second, and the MC is like, and who choreographed this?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_04: And the girl's like, I did.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, Yeah, that's amazing.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like, that's my favorite thing ever is when it's a self-choreographed thing because a lot of times you can just tell that like either this choreographer knows this person in and out and is so honed in on what they can do, or it was choreographed by the person themselves.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_04: And like there's just nothing, there's nothing better than, like we've all said, feeling confident in your own way of movement.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_04: And it just shows on stage too, when it's done really well.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_04: And like I think that's another thing that I want to sort of touch on.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's like, Lauren, did you go to college?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_04: I did, yes.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_04: Where'd you go?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, Cincinnati.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_04: And Mary, you're in college for dance.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, we I took a choreography class, and I'm sure y'all did too, at least one.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_04: And the sort of academic nature of choreography, I think sometimes doesn't play into a lot of studio choreography.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I've been working a lot on different articles for the website that I write for about dance.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm even coming across ideas that I haven't thought of in years for choreography because they're so academic.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's like the six qualities of movement and thinking about how you can change each kind of movement and you know, what that means and like how we think about it in the studio, I think there should be more of that, even though it feels like stuffy and academic, to be like, change your movement quality.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_04: But like, yes, change your movement quality.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: That's part of it.
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• 30:25
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• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just like, you know, flipping it, mirroring it, changing the levels.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, we're gonna do the exact same phrase, but we're all gonna face on different angles, or you're gonna drop down, you're gonna take it two counts later, and we're gonna do the same move, you know, those types of of choreographic drills and ways to kind of add the layers to your vision because it can it can start very flat.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's the actually, and this isn't one, this isn't in regards to student choreography, but just choreography in general.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's something that I feel like is hard to achieve as a guest choreographer when when I'm now traveling and teaching and have a set time limit.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because if I was a studio choreographer where I got to rehearse this dance over and over and over again, I would make adjustments to every single week.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'd watch it again and I'd make another change and I'd watch it again and I'd be like, I don't like how that looks.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna change it.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: But when I go guest, it's one and done.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I need to add those layers as I go if I want it to visually work.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's that's the good thing about being a student choreographer is that if if it's your solo or if it's your group with dancers at friends at your studio, you should be able to keep evolving it.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like we've we've talked about editing in choreography on the podcast before.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes we can throw too much out there and then we can reel it back in and edit, or it can be not enough where it's a little too flat when you're watching it.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, well, if I just add a level change here, that'll really change that dynamic.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe I can make it be symmetrical and have a mirror image here instead of everybody being flat to the front.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, things like that are ways that you can evolve and enhance choreography in group settings.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: But I love watching student choreography dances at competition.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes they don't tell us because you don't get to always know who choreographed to dance at competition.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: They're not writing down the choreographer every time, but some competitions announce it, some might put it in the program, or some might have a student choreography category at competitions.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: But I wish we always knew because I would approach my feedback as a judge completely different.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_04: Well, because I mean if you're if you're entering as a student choreographer, Mary, you can either back me up or say no to this, but like you're you're entering it not only to showcase your work, but to look for the feedback on the choreography.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like, yes, and your execution of the things, like you said, your turnout or whatever.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_04: But like if I don't know it's student choreographed and I can't talk about choreography in my critique as per the competition's rules, then you're not getting what you paid for.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the flip side, like you mentioned earlier, it is really satisfying.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Some of my favorite like wins were when they had no idea.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: It would feel so special to be like, you thought this was choreographed by a professional, but it was my work.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: But the other hand, I really liked the competitions that gave feedback to me.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like Diva is like my longtime favorite competition, and you get it right there, and then and but like they would just say it to me and be like, Well, have you thought about you should try this differently?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yes, I love that.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like my solo would never look the same when you start it in, you know, August, September to the end of the season in April, May.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Never.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always looking for something new to do to it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the the judges, when they know you did it, absolutely give feedback in a more helpful way than when they have no idea they never mention the choreography at all.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's tricky.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's it's a it's a sensitive subject.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's choreography at competition in general is a sensitive subject for many.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I've always kind of approached it as like as educators, like as an educator myself, as a per as a dancer myself, I'm always looking for feedback.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like in any way possible, I feel like I'm always trying to learn.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I've said it many times before on the podcast.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes when you get to a professional dance level, you don't get the feedback anymore.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't hear how do I make myself better?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I I find it interesting that our competition industry is afraid to, the teachers are afraid to hear feedback on choreography because it's a perfect opportunity to continue to grow as an educator and choreographer.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: So just like how you said, Mary, how as a student choreographer you want that feedback, I wish more edge like choreographers wanted the feedback too.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because then we can all grow and evolve.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: And especially in that scenario where I know, Mary, you said that your teachers weren't guiding you as much choreographically when you were doing student choreography.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: But for all the other teachers out there who are allowing student choreography to happen in a safe place in their studio, whether they go to competition or whether they don't, just being able to hear that feedback to their dancers, it might be something that they completely missed.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like I would have never thought to do that transition that there, that's wonderful advice.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: You guys should definitely try that.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then that might be a light bulb moment for that choreographer as well for their future work.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I just can't stress that enough that I just want that to happen more often at competition.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I applaud every dancer that is willing and is excited to bring their own choreography to competition.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's like you said, Lauren, you said a lot more of your advanced senior level dancers.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: I do believe I feel it should be around that age.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if we should be having 10-year-olds do self-choreographed dances.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: There have been instances, actually, I've seen and witnessed a competition, an entire studio only bring self-choreographed dances to competition.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: At the same time, they weren't ready for it either.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: So it was kind of just like a little confusing for me where I felt like is the teacher guiding them in the right direction, or are they just giving them all the freedom, you know, and just making everybody happy?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: But there still needs to be more like a little bit of structure involved in the process where it should be private lessons on the weekly, just like a regular solo, if you want to compete it, or even for just perform it.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think part of the problem that teachers may see with self-choreo, or even why maybe we don't give as many critiques about choreography, is because it can be hard to not take it personally, right?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's your art, it's your work that you shared.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we're have to find that balance of being like sensitive to that, but you can still give constructive feedback and criticism to that in a way that's going to help the dance along.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not all just about like I didn't get the meaning of this, or I didn't like that movement phrase.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: There are ways that you can structure your feedback and also your choreography teaching.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it is kind of in a way like more academic, like Leslie was saying, something that came to mind for me that I did actually, I did this a lot with K5 dancers.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: Not that I'm saying have your K5 compete self-chore.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: But if you want to start it in the classroom, they responded so well to this elements of choreo uh that'll rattle off real quick.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then that could be a way that you can like incorporate with your older dancers if you're not totally sure how to say we need to fix X, Y, or Z.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: You could break it into certain elements and maybe have them work through those.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: So the elements that I would look at would be body, which would be what shapes are we making?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Where are we initiating our movement from?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: What ways are we bending or shaping our body?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Action.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: So are we traveling?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Are we staying put?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is a pause part of the action, or is it all really big movements or small?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Your space.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: So are we using all of the stage?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Are we facing different ways or oriented different ways?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Are we high, low, different levels?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: Time, like your rhythm, your musicality, which is such a good learning experience in Choreo.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like we think about the expression part, but that timing thing is huge, especially if you have little ones that struggle with counts.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: Let them create an eight count and see if they can like internalize that music.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then the final piece would be energy, which would be your how, your why, your movement quality, heavy, soft, kind of like that little artistic bit at the end.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: So if you can kind of break it apart into those, so it was body, action, space, time, and energy, then you have more of an objective way to critique your choreo or create it.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because otherwise, like I said, it can feel very subjective or very personal.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: If you love your piece and maybe it's about like something going on in your life that's major, you might not necessarily want as much feedback on that, or it might feel more personal.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: But if you can kind of pull it apart as elements, just like there are elements that go into a pirouette, right?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have your prep, you have the turn itself, the position of the leg, and break your choreo into some pieces.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: That might be a good way as teachers to guide your students that are creating, or as students, if you're like, I'm stuck, I don't know what to do, I can't think of any new moves.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like go back to those elements and see what you can come up with.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a checklist.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: You're guiding off of which I know I do when I choreograph.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: I have a checklist in my head.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: I want to make sure I hit all points of the stage.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: I want to make sure that I showcase the dancer in the right way.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: I want to make sure that I showcase them on both sides.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then I want to make sure that I'm using some floor work.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: I want to have enough, you know, those checklists are so important.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I need a circle.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_04: I always think that's a good one.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: I love a circle too.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: It's not a circle in a dance, it's not a message.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_04: I love a circle.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that's amazing advice for all choreographers, young and seasoned out there.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you, Lauren.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: That was so great.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_04: Lauren, I have a question.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_04: At your studio, you were saying that you have some of your more advanced students choreographing.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_04: Are they choreographing on themselves or on other people or both?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: For like the competition setting, it's only been on themselves.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: That being said, I do think there was a few years ago that we had some seniors like help with a piece for a novice junior group or for a younger group.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: And the thinking behind that was that that group might not be ready for a guest choreographer, but they had the same teachers over and over.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: So bringing like a new person into the room was that new energy, somebody new to learn from.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that was a good, a good balance, I think, for those older dancers to kind of like get break into teaching.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: The younger ones were learning from a new person.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't enter that as self-core, I'm pretty sure.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like as you're saying, it's not as common at all.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: The comps, some of them have it, some of them don't.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think the rest of the choreo that we've done with the older dancers, if they are choreoing for someone else, that would just be for a performance like recital setting.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: We wouldn't take those to comp in general.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_04: So my reason for asking that, and Mary, I wanted to ask you too, did you get paid for the choreography that you did while you were in high school for other people?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: I only started getting paid like last year when I was in college for the first time.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_04: That was gonna be my question that I feel like some studio owners might have, like, okay, well, if I if we're doing student choreography that will be entered into competition, is anybody expected to be paid for these things?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I I think my that's why I was asking Lauren about your students too.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, interesting.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think if I would say if that's a student that you have hired on as an assistant teacher that you're otherwise paying as an assistant teacher, yes, you should probably give them something for the choreo, whether you're just sticking at their hourly rate or a flat fee, whatever that is.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think more importantly, it's just that you keep the same standard for everyone.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: So don't pay some kids and not the others because they're volunteering and some are volunteer hours.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's where it gets into trouble a little bit.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: So whatever your studio policy is otherwise with assistant teachers, that's probably where I would err on with the choreo as well.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_04: That makes sense.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_04: I don't, I just haven't thought about my past in a while, apparently.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: But I was like, oh yeah, I taught my junior and senior year of high school for my mom.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I taught like four or five classes of of little kids and choreographed, you know, and I got paid hourly, but like those kids weren't competing.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_04: But that made me think of like, okay, who's getting paid for this?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_04: Is anybody getting paid and should they get paid?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_04: And so I agree with you, Lauren.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_04: I think that, you know, if if they are on board as a student teacher or a teaching assistant, you know, they they're taking the time just like anybody else to create, you know, the work.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's what what you all just said kind of is important for dancers who do have the same goals like Mary, where you knew you wanted to be a choreographer and you loved it and you knew what it takes to get to that next level.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: And now you're in college.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: But while you were still uh training in studio, it's important to remember for all the teachers out there that yes, we're training uh professional dancers, but at the same time, a lot of these dancers might just want to teach at afterwards.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: And teaching usually means you're gonna be choreographing, whether it's a recital dance or a competition dance or a solo or whatever.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: So giving the dancers that want that the opportunities to start at the bottom with some of the wrecked students and getting them to understand what it's like to put dancers in formations and visuals and levels and those things we just talked about, that's the perfect stepping stone.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because I feel like the transition from student to teacher, like I'm 18 and I'm an advanced student at my studio, and now I'm 19 and graduated and I'm teaching class all of a sudden.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: If you've never had the experience, it's gonna be a really hard transition for a lot of dancers.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that scenario happens all the time because not everyone goes to college.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the studio's like, oh, you're so great, you're so talented.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: Why don't you come teach some of these classes?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: Now you're getting paid all of a sudden you've never done this in your life.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like at least you at least you should be like a student teacher, like you were mentioning.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: And even Leslie, you were you were a student teacher when you were growing up.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like I never had the opportunity to do that, but I think it's really important and it could be a really great stepping stone and learning experience for dancers as they progress into their teaching career.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean, it I remember it being a great learning experience.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_04: And obviously growing up, you know, day in, day out for 20 years in a dance studio with my mom.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like I was already, I saw how you I saw how to teach.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like I knew how to teach because I was around it constantly.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember in my jazz ped class in college, I got a hundred out of the entire class.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_04: I was the only one who got a hundred on my three-year-old jazz class.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_04: That was like the age that I got to pick.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I just remember my teacher saying, like, I'm just so amazed that like you, you already know how to do this.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like I didn't even really teach you anything.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like all the things you did.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, I grew up in it.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like I watched people do it.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_04: I and then I was able, like allowed to start teaching, you know, with supervision, obviously, in high school.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_04: So like I just knew what to do.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_04: And so I I can't.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_04: And it was interesting also watching my friends in class who had never set foot in a classroom with children in any capacity before.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_04: And like, and they were struggling with with what to do for a five-year-old beginner jazz class because they were, you know, had come from competition season, you know, senior year of high school and didn't quite know what a five-year-old could do.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I do think it's it is really important, like you said, Court, for all those kids who know that they want to teach and know that they want to choreograph to just be given that opportunity in some way.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_04: I want to talk a little bit about just I think some options for studios who maybe don't offer this already.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_04: What are just some sort of programming ideas?
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe, Lauren, you can speak a little bit to this with what your studio does of, you know, if you're a studio that wants to start incorporating student choreography, you know, what are what are some easy options that you can just integrate into your studio life?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think there are probably lots of little easy things you could do just integrating in your classes if you're not already doing that.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: So one that I love that's so simple to do is if you're doing a combo already at the end of class, I stole this idea from I think it was from Missy Zimmer and Andrew Hubbard.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: They called it musical music.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: So they would literally just change the song on us.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you would do the choreo and then just change the song.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then you are having to change your timing, you're having to change your movement quality, and maybe your kiddos that are like, I hate improv or I'm not ready for this, that is giving such a safe structure that they could literally just do the same sequence of movements or they could take it and run with it.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: So if you can sprinkle in little easy things like that with your student choreo, that's awesome.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to take it another level farther, I mean, so much with the virtual world now.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: If you have like a band app that your team is on, or you have a closed YouTube or something like that, encourage students to share.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you could do like a student feature every month.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you could do something fun, like have one dancer start out choreo and pass it to the next, and then they do a video and add on, and you make it more of like a game or an outside project that they can get buy-in into.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to necessarily say, like, okay, we have to incorporate student choreo.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's nowhere else in our schedule for it, but like where's the class time?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: It can be like pieces of your classes that you already have, or like I said, it could be an additional thing that you do like on social media in a in a safe way that you're incorporating like those performance opportunities.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think we have hinted on it a couple of times, but that IDA virtual comp, that's so awesome.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's such an easy way to put out your self-core and get that good feedback.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: So if you have dancers that are like, I want to do a self-choreo solo, and as a director, you're like, I don't know, like if we're ready to take this to an actual in-person competition or it's our first year doing it or something like that, send it to a virtual comp.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: Get that feedback to get the program going.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: Mary, what do you have any advice to studios out there, like as someone who wanted the student choreography option more incorporated into your student training?
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have any advice as to what would have helped you?
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: I would have loved something I do in college now, is we have like a contemporary club and students take turns teaching the club, and I've done this a few times.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if studios could have like maybe a part of their contemporary classes or completely separate, letting students take turns creating a short phrase for their peers would be super helpful or having them collaborate or like having an improv class.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know not every studio can have the time to add that, but I feel like if there was a dedicated, you know, 30 minutes a week to practice improv techniques.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now that I take dance composition, I realize how much you could learn that would be beneficial from that academic standpoint to start bringing to kids that might not be exposed to that if they don't go to school for dance.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: And just really encouraging them, even if it's only an eight count or two, or deconstructing a phrase your teacher might give you and say, Well, can you change an arm here?
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or what if you don't use your arms at all?
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: And what if you just use the feet, but the way the arms would have gone?
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: Or what if you do the whole dance lying on your back?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't know what you could create if you don't give them those fun little prompts.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's great advice.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think sometimes we get so focused, especially at this point in the season, we get so focused on it's competition time and we have to run our competition dances at the end of every class instead of focusing on the technique and the improv that we maybe could do more in the fall.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, there's obviously not enough time in the week for all these different styles that every dancer's training in all the time.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: But I love those prompts.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's so great.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: And improv is so important in your dance journey.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: Whether you're gonna be a choreographer or if you're gonna be a pro, you have to know how to improv.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that definitely gets overlooked at a lot of studios.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: I see it all the time at convention.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: When I teach at conventions, and dancers are asked to improv at the beginning of before the combo starts or during the audition portion, and dancers are just scared.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of dancers are scared to improv.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: And if you don't naturally connect to the music and feel what your body feels when you hear this song or this rhythm or this groove, then how are you gonna become a choreographer if you can't even immediately adapt to this new song that just should naturally move you as a dancer, you know?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_03: So improv is really where a lot of choreography stems from and starts.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I do want to mention in that thought that for young dancers who love to improv and are thinking, like, wow, I should try student choreography.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: There is a difference between improving a solo and choreographing a solo.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: So it starts with improv, but you still have to find that structure to create a dance.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: It can't just be an improved solo every time you go on stage or in your performance.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: It has to have counts.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: It has to connect to the music.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of dancers struggle and the transitions, I think is the hardest part for young dancers to figure out are transitions.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_03: How do I connect?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_03: I know I want to do my tilt jump because it's so great.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: How do I connect this tilt jump to this reach immediately following it?
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: And what count does the tilt jump happen to make the reach happen on this lyric and the music?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: Those things are hard to navigate for young dancers because they have their checklist of what I want to achieve and what I know feels good for me and what my skills are.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: But it's all about that's when the choreography process happens is connecting those dots and creating something beautiful.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: So keep that in mind if you're starting that student choreo venture.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_04: Ooh, that was gonna be a good clip there, Courtney.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_04: You should pull that one out.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that was like the connection that one up.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, improv choreo thing.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_04: I've seen a few solos that have one first overall, and the the kid comes up and says, I improved it, and you're like, I don't, I don't know that I enjoy that as much now.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like now I'm angry at you.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like that's not nobody asked you to improv anything.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like this is supposed to be choreography.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_04: Different disciplines.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_04: There's a few competitions.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's a different discipline.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: An improv category, which is range of which I appreciate, I will appreciate that.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I love it.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: Or if they do it for title, I've seen them have to do improv for title.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like all about it.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's definitely different than saying you choreographed your own solo.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's a different way of moving, it's a completely different if you I mean, I don't I don't know.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_03: There's some dancers that might dance their best during improv, but my brain doesn't work fast enough.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I know my transitions aren't going to be as seamless in my improv as they would if I had choreographed movement.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: But every dancer is different with how they interpret things.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: And especially if they're not used to improving, then they might like the structure of choreography better.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, yeah.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_03: I love that that is, I think all competitions should there's a lot of improv challenges at competitions, but I've seen them like actually like in registration, you can do like, I want to do an improv solo, and that's awesome.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's so cool.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what a good audition thing.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how many auditions did you go to that they're like, okay, now improv?
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like every month.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: You always have to improv in summer intensive auditions now.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: They they're like, we want to see two minutes of how you move.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can't choreograph it, or it's really obvious that it's the musicality is completely different.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's another thing I wanted to mention is like when you choreograph for yourself, I didn't rely on counts as much.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely let the music guide my intentions and my interpretation.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: But choreographing for students, whether it was a solo for someone else or a group, counts matter so much more because they're not feeling it the way you are.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to be really clear for anybody listening when you're gonna teach, you have to be very specific with your count.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, don't give me some.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: That is very true.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_03: We'll talk about counts all day.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe we should do an episode about counting.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh season four.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be that would be really good.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm ready for it.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_03: Because I am the kind of person and I'm also the kind of class taker that I will ask the question is that supposed to be on the one and?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_03: Is it supposed to be on the one and or the and one?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because those are two different things.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_03: Two different two different things that no one probably even thought about.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and my favorite is when the choreographer can't tell you.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_03: Because when that you're like, that's when I'm like, no.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: The dancers spend like half of the class fighting if it was on two or two and three, and then nothing gets done.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like, it's on a digga digga-da.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_04: And you're like, no, no, no, what's the count?
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me the count because the count's not wrong.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_04: Your interpretation of the count could be wrong, but what's in the counts lyric?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_03: Don't you hear?
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, I hear the lyric, but is it the one and or the or the and one?
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_03: Two different things.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's why as a frustrated class taker, I now make sure that I know the counts as a teacher.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, uh season four, everybody stay tuned.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm putting that on the list for for me.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: Counts.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_03: Leslie, you approve?
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I totally approve.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_04: Counting, why it's important, why you must.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, listeners, I hope that you enjoyed hearing a little bit more about student choreography.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you have a young dancer who is interested in dabbling in some choreography coming up the next few years, or this season, maybe they are working on a self-chore graphed piece.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_03: And if so, we'd love to see it.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_03: Send it on over to us over here at IDA.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: We want to see that beautiful work.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_03: But maybe there's a lot of teachers out there who have a new perspective on incorporating student choreography opportunities for your students and for your dancers at your studio, whether it's this season, next season, for the future, we would love to see that as well.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: And to all the competitions out there listening, let's get those student choreographers out there, let's get them more involved, let's get the improv more involved at competition.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_03: We'd love to see that too.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_03: So, so many good things being shared on this episode, so many great perspectives and thoughts and ideas.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_03: So, thank you so much, Mary and Lauren, for joining us.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_03: And how we always usually lead us out for this episode and all of our episodes, how we always lead out in our episodes, but is we have our guests share one final tidbit or thought or inspiration to all of the future student choreographers or current student choreographers out there that you'd like to share.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: My biggest piece of advice, if you're stuck as a student, is to journal about your piece.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that's helped me for years to figure out my storyline, what I want to say and the general flow of my piece.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: But to anybody who's thinking about doing it but is scared, I definitely suggest that you do it, even if it's not for competition.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's so rewarding to see the progress of your piece.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like you gain so much more confidence and you discover your unique artistic voice when you take that push.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I couldn't agree more, Mary.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_02: And my advice for teachers that are curious about self-core is go ahead and let your students try.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like try to step back from it if you can a little bit, give that feedback, but let them go for it and see what they create.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: And as a teacher, don't be afraid to do like a little improv with them or to take risks yourself.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: If they see that, that you're not afraid to improv or try some moves, that's gonna just encourage them that much more.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: And for all my student choreographers out there, I know we've all kind of talked about it on this episode, but we have all had choreo pieces that were fantastic and some that failed.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it is a thousand percent okay to fail at choreography and get better with it.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_02: Just like technique, it's a skill that you can improve on.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it's all right if the first piece you do you don't love or you think you could have done better, you will the next time.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: You'll keep getting better at it every single time, just like you do with your dance technique and your movement quality.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's a skill that you can acquire.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: So feel proud of what you put out there and just keep working at it.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_03: We hope you enjoyed this week's episode all about student choreography.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_03: Be sure to follow our special guests on social media.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: You can find Mary at Mary Selene underscore and Lauren at Dell Barn Alta.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_04: Don't forget to follow Mickey Leimpact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcast, Google Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_03: IDA's virtual competition is back, and registration is now open for a total early event.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: Compete alongside dancers from around the world and receive detailed personalized critiques from a free-screen IDA judge.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_03: And new for the season, your critique will include up to 15 minutes of start-and-stop style feedback, plus a new broken-down score sheet to help dancers really see exactly where their score was impacted.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: Your entry includes a virtual competition patch in the mail.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_03: And all dancers are eligible for individual special rewards, overall sponsored prizes, and the chance to recompete for brand new judges at our top 20 challenge live stream event.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: Entries are only$55 to participate, and registration is open until April 30th, 2022.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_03: Head to our website now to learn more and register your solo at Impact DanceEducators.com slash virtual competition.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: We can't wait to see your dance.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_04: Coming your way in season three of Making the Impact, we've got our next studio spotlight feature with Studio Blue, mental health for dancers, and keeping dances fresh throughout the season.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episodes.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_03: Until next time, keep dancing.