Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.413: Understanding The Hype Around Baccarat Rouge 540 & Other Trend Worthy Scents ft Olya Bar

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E.413: Understanding The Hype Around Baccarat Rouge 540 & Other Trend Worthy Scents ft Olya Bar · Skin Anarchy

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• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: This is another Fragrance Friday special.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited because the series is really coming together, and I've just had such um good luck and the privilege to host some amazing guests.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: And we have another one with us today.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Olia Barr.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: And Olia is a fragrance expert, um, industry expert and knows all about the things that we don't know when it comes to fragrance.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome to the show, Olia.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited to be hosting you.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_04: Hi, and thank you so much for having me.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you have been really just delivering amazing content.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm really excited to be able to speak to you and to share um some insights.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, no, thank you so much.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: That's such a that's so kind of you to say that.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: I, you know, it's not me, it's the guests.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: They're amazing.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's a combination.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: No, but I want to get I I want to get started and learn all about you because I know you um have an interesting, you know, like backstory and just like your path into fragrance.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: I would love to learn about that.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then we can kind of dive in to some questions I have.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um so honestly, my role in the fragrance industry is very exciting, but it's kind of like this hybrid of uh trend hunting, digital marketing strategy, and basically like a never-ending curiosity quest um, you know, about fragrances and everything that's related to scent.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, my background um is originally in international and trade in marketing from FIT.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I have over 10 years of uh experience in a fragrance field, uh, specifically niche fragrance field.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it started actually at a small place that no longer exists.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's a perfumery that used to be in Soho, and it was called Min New York.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_04: And it was a perfumery that curated um a whole variety of uh of niche fragrances, um, things like Amoage, Montal, Mancera, Frapon, and many other brands that was, you know, back then it was um there was a lot less brands on the market.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um so these were kind of like the pillar uh players.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_04: And it was really exciting because even though I always loved fragrances and I've had quite a large collection of my own, but they were mostly designer fragrances.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_04: I had about 30, which was, you know, which seemed like a lot back then.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_04: Now that I have a collection of 900, it doesn't seem that big.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it was very exciting because um, you know, I got to learn so much about the niche industry.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: I started creating this kind of uh mental database um by smelling.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, I started meeting so many amazing people who were passionate about this industry.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I was very lucky because I was able to learn kind of because you know, both the industry aspect of it because we were working on it was a small team, we were working on multiple projects.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I was able to see the retail aspect, I was able to see kind of the internal process.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_04: We were also launching back then um a collection of uh our own fragrances.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_04: It was under New York.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_04: So it was very exciting to be able to learn all that, you know, organize these cool events and and just kind of really um get a feel for the industry and again meet some incredible people.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so that was kind of the beginning of it.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: And um later I worked, you know, I continued to work in industry.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_04: I was on my own for some time.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: I left um in New York, I believe in 2015 or 16.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: And um I was working with so many amazing brands, you know, on pop-ups and things like that, consulting.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_04: And then in uh 2021, um, it was very interesting how kind of uh I was circling back, you know, or I guess they call it destiny.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I ended up um accepting a position at your perfumes, which is one of the biggest distributors in the industry, with a portfolio of brands like Amage and Mencer and Montal, which were kind of like, and of course, Maison Francis Kurgeon and uh Maison Corvalli now, and so many, so many others, and kind of making this circle, you know, and going back to how I originally started.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but my position um is now currently um as uh digital strategy and communications for Twisted Lily, which is an e-commerce uh niche boutique.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's like a fragrance paradise, if you if you ask.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I think a lot of people don't know, but Twisted Lily used to be a small store in in Brooklyn, in Brooklyn, New York, and um kind of with a niche and a little bit of an indie curation as well.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_04: And uh Vicken Arslanian, who is the founder of Euro Perfumes, he knew the founders very well.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_04: And uh he bought out um this the the brands basically when during the pandemic they you know were ready to close doors, and he really wanted to keep this um this concept of Venice perfumery going.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_04: So he bought it out and uh now it's under the EuroPerfumes umbrella and it's its own, you know, it's its own beauty, it's uh it's really thriving, and uh now it's a fully um e-commerce retail destination.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it's really exciting.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we've been we've been up to so many, you know, fun things because of course the struggle I think is um is that you don't have a consumer walking through your door and smelling the fragrances in person.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_04: So how do you, you know, how do you deliver that message?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: How do you make their experience amazing?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_04: And how do you create this um seamless, you know, and uh really fun experience and make it as easy as possible for the for consumers to discover fragrances.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: But more about that because we have a lot of things.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I mean it's it's a really good point though, you know, and I I love that you, you know, eased us into that, honestly, Olia, because it's something that I um I'm very passionate about because I I think that's where the expert you know insights really come in, you know, and that's really where I I find your experience to be so valuable, is that I've always been very intrigued by how brands describe fragrances and how they can bring that feeling to a consumer, even if you're sitting, you know, on your computer and just reading about the notes and reading about the bit, you know, what's in it.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I really have always um related it to like poetry, you know, and I'm I was a huge reader growing up.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, I think it's always been like this weird, like it's been tied in, you know, artistically, um, this this concept of being able to describe what you will experience rather than just smell, you know?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: So like I find that to be a really interesting um just area in general, you know, and when it comes to really getting people to fall in love with the concept of maybe a perfume brand or even just one fragrance, right?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and what I think one of the big things I want us to talk about is this huge um like buzz around Baccarat Rouge, you know, 540, which is I'm really dying to hear your perspective on this one because it's everywhere, you know, as you already know, it's on TikTok everywhere.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I it's just interesting to me how like certain fragrances come up, you know what I mean?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: And they become viral all of a sudden, even though they've been around.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I would love to hear your take on that.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, I would love to talk about that fragrance because um I will share, you know, this is this is very um, I'll be I'll be honest, I wear the fragrance myself and I love it.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_04: I I'm definitely the team love buccalat because I know some people um kind of don't quite they can't quite wear it.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that's what was also part of what made it so exciting because there was that team who couldn't understand, and and I believe that some people feel like it smells very salty and mineral to them, and sometimes even people have negative associations, and then some people absolutely adore it, you know, and they love it, and they are on, you know, they've been buying multiple bottles, and sometimes they even buy many different variations on it that have been created by multiple brands.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so it's quite a it's quite an interesting phenomenon because it's you know, when I originally um, you know, got into the into the industry, there was only a few players and you know, key players, and some of them were Frederick Mall, Sergio Tanz, Amoaj, to name a few.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um and then in 2009, we've seen, you know, um the Maison Francis Kurjent kind of um being born, you know, and I have so much admiration for um for Francis Curgeon because as a creative, he is a man of precision and limitless creativity.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, he was behind projects like Sending the Fountain in Paris, organizing spectacular immersive scent installations and setting fragrances kind of as a form of style expression as at the core.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I think every work by Francis is like the sensory adventure.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_04: And he knows, you know, exactly how to appeal to the consumer and create the fragrance as an accessory that I think many people can incorporate into their daily lives.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_04: You see, I see fragrances as both art and business, of course, and I understand the value of creating something that is both creative but also wearable.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_04: And there are so many perfumes out there which are like these ridiculous pieces of art you admire in a gallery, but would most likely never bring home to enjoy on an everyday basis.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_04: And um, I think what, you know, what is one of these biggest strengths about um Francis Curgeon, besides, of course, you know, his amazing, brilliant mind.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a huge fan.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it's this blending of wearability and creativity.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_04: And it's kind of, I think, a secret spice to success in general, um, based on like analyzing many brands across the industry.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_04: But you do have these kind of outliers sometimes that you don't even expect.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: And you can do all the calculations possibly in a world.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_04: And then sometimes, you know, originally Baccarat, for example, was a uh limited edition that was supposed to be created for the 250th birthday um of the brand.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_04: And then it became this cult favorite, you know, and I think it's uh could be potentially.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, this is um just kind of my personal guess, but you know, there are a certain, there, there are certain notes in this fragrance um that are kind of tied to also uh gastronomy in a way, because the uh Francis uh Purgeon worked with ambroxin, it's like a plant-based uh molecule similar to ambergre, combined with the like that woody note to evoke that warm sand, like that base material of crystal.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: And it's that like ethyl maltol, uh, which is a it's an organic compound that is commonly uh used in flavors.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that is, you know, kind of sometimes described as like this caramelized sugar or caramelized fruit.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um but then there's also this minerality about the fragrance, and there's that spiciness, you know, there's that saffron, there's um, you know, the jasmine aspect.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that a lot of times maybe it's so um addictive because it has this kind of gourmand kind of aspect to it, even though it's not a straightforward gourmand, like an angel, for example, from Theory Mudler, um, that was created by Olivia Crest many, many years ago.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_04: But I do find it very interesting that there are people who strongly disliked it, dislike the scent, and they find it salty and repulsive, even sometimes.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_04: And then there's people who are completely obsessed with it.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: And my personal experience was very interesting.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_04: I have to share it because I think it was um it was also an interesting experience that allowed me to even sometimes uh reevaluate how I myself um experience certain things and how I sometimes judge fragrances as I'm reviewing them, whether it's for curation or um I also write for I'm a contributing editor for Self LeBon.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I review a lot of fragrances and I write about them.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, before I provide my review, I have to wear the fragrance in kind of every setting.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_04: I try to do it for like um all kinds of types of weather and mood.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: So I fully understand, you know, how to write about it and how to speak about it better.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so it's it's quite interesting that I was um I was uh in Manhattan and um this woman passed by me in a burqa and I just got this beautiful whiff, you know, like the centrail behind her.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_04: So I was mesmerized, and of course I follow her.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_04: Not strange at all.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: You know, so I follow her and I said, I'm sorry, I I just have to ask you, what is it that you're wearing?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_04: And she turns around and she goes, Oh, this is uh it's baccarat rouge.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, No way, because I smelled the fragrance and it didn't smell like that to me.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_04: She goes, No, really.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: She pulls it out of her bag just to prove that it's not lying.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: And it just really changed my perspective about how I judged that fragrance because I smelled it on paper and it smelled nothing like it.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I felt completely in love with that central behind her.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, funny thing, we were friends so many years later.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and we always have that story where we laugh over it because it was like we got bonded over.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_04: But I do find it interesting that, you know, um it's a scent that is really it's hard to explain this uh, you know, this cold following.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_04: But it's also one of the first of its kind, you know, just like um Aventsis, you know, by by Creed was kind of that blend of that pineapple and ambroxin and birch, you know, that smokiness and that fruitiness.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_04: And then now we see so many different variations on it.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and to kind of go back, you had that um overdose of aldehydes and Chanel, and then so many years later it's still one of these fragrances that's a cold following.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I find it very um interesting to see, you know, almost every few decades you have something like this that comes um to the market, and then people go wild for it because um baccarat rouge was not supposed to, it was supposed to be a limited edition, and then now everybody fell in love with it.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_04: So thankfully it's available at all times and different concentrations.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I I really understand what you mean because I that's what I was thinking.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when I first saw it on everywhere on TikTok, I was like, oh my gosh, I guess we're just you know bringing back fragrances that we love, you know.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's it was interesting to see like how something that was created, you know, um it just randomly gets picked up and it becomes this viral, you know, phenomena in the fragrance world because I've seen it before, even when I was growing up, like for example, um, I remember my father had gone to like overseas, you know, some conference and brought back Jador, you know, by Dior for my mother back when I was younger.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: And now, you know, when I grew when you, you know, years went by and it just kind of got really, really popular, you know, and it was like something I watched my mother kind of put on, you know, and and it was interesting to see that, you know, how there was like this evolution of that fragrance as well.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that, and it's a commonality that I'm starting to see just as a general consumer, that, you know, fragrance is like one of those, I think, you know, areas in beauty and you know, luxury that you create it and then it takes a minute for people to, I think, pick up momentum, you know, like it's like for the ones that last for a long time, at least from what I've noticed.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, like there's a lot of hype around some, and there's not so I would love for you to like kind of dive into that topic because what in your mind makes something like, you know, in a from the fragrance category like timeless, you know, something that people will keep coming back to.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: You know, that's a very good question because I um sometimes, you know, as you analyze things and you go back into kind of the archives and you see what people have been gravitating towards, I think there are certain things that either, you know, you have a new scent, completely new scent profile, you know, on the market, which is kind of like the baccarat rouge and again like creed evensis and or for example, you know, the uh um eccentric molecule that I remember was, you know, like rock the olfactory world because it was so simple.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_04: It was literally like one a quart of IC super, and uh which is a synthetic molecule.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_04: And then it just it went absolutely bonkers, like everybody started.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's probably still still perhaps one of the top sellers across the world.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_04: But I also think it's certain things that tie um that have to do with olfactory um kind of memories and imprints since we are kids, because there are certain things that may feel familiar and they feel good, you know.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_04: So there are certain notes, like for example, a vanilla accord.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_04: We're seeing a huge comeback, you know, in the past few years, that fragrance that accord in so many different fragrances, we have smoky, we have bitter, we have uh cupcake sweet, we have all kinds of you know varieties of this, and people are just eating it up.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_04: And I think a lot of times it could be tied to um to things that are they just the things that are tapping into these olfactory, you know, like very emotional parts um of of our past, you know, because of course fragrances are very tied to um to everything that we've been experiencing, you know, it's kind of like any if, for example, you're going through a positive experience or a negative experience, um, whatever it is that you're exposed to at the time uh in terms of scent is what's gonna get imprinted forever in your in your brain.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_04: And if you encounter that scent later, you know, it could be years down in line, your body will most likely recreate that emotional chemical response that it had during whatever was happening.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_04: So that's why sometimes people um they recall feeling really happy over smelling something, but they can't quite pinpoint it.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_04: But sometimes it's tied most of the time, it's tied to just the chemical reaction in the body that they were experiencing when they were having a good time.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: And same thing, by the way, with the bad experience, which is why I always say that if you are heading to an unpleasant event, which you know sometimes happens, um, don't wear your favorite fragrance.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, that's a really good pro tip.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's really a lot, I mean, that's solid.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: I like that you said that because that's really, really true.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: I've experienced that before where you know you get the scent gets tied with that memory forever.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can't get rid of it, and it like smells completely different, like after that situation.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_04: So exactly.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_04: But to to go back to um, you know, what you were mentioning about TikTok is that I think TikTok is a whole other story because today, you know, I think that you can also sometimes there's things that are trending on TikTok that I can't even wrap my head around.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_04: It's like oh my gosh, Johnny, what am I watching?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I feel like TikTok just has a power of, you know, on its own to really just make anything blow up at this point, you know.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_04: So I am still trying to quite understand, you know, to understand how um, you know, even my own addiction to TikTok at this point, I really tried to resist for a long time.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_04: And now I I find myself spending, you know, hours on it.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, what is happening?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm the same way.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like this is a total sidetrack, but genuinely, like I feel you.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was like avoiding it because of like the business side of things.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: I got on it, and now I'm like, well, not have to post on TikTok, you know, like on it all the time.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I hear you.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, I mean, but you know, it really comes down to regardless of how people are finding these fragrances, they still are, right?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: And they're becoming this phenomenon, you know, overnight.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and that's what I really you know, that's where my question really stemmed from is this con this concept of like, you know, what is it?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and you know this ties into a lot of the i i think the topic of niche fragrances and that's where i really want to go with this conversation is that you know what is it that makes people just like believe somebody when they say you know this is the best fragrance I've ever tried, you know, and those kind of things.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I would I want to learn more about you know just the niche fragrance world in that regard because I think that there is this um aspect of you know just that coveting aspect of oh my god I found this fragrance, nobody else is wearing it, you know, it's something that's mine, it's a it's a piece of my, you know, personality.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: And that is often the case, you know, with with what we find as our signature fragrance.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what is like your take on that when we look at the niche fragrance industry?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, what is it does, you know, how does that all work together?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even really know how to phrase this question.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, I would I love that question.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_04: And um, to be honest with you, I think there are quite a few layers to this.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think that one is going back to what you originally said is how you describe the fragrance.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: And this is going back to TikTok and YouTube reviews and the OG blogs that kind of started it all.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, the written format, the descriptions on site.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: I think this is all um very, very important because if you see, you can of course connect to the way something looks, to uh, the design of the bottle, the color of the juice, so to say.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_04: But I think it's a combination of everything that really allows the consumer to better understand what is it that they are missing probably in their life, you know, because of course designer fragrances, they are um they are less of a playground, let's put it this way, you know, because of course the niche industry offers such a huge variety of things.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and the beauty of the most niche fragrances is that they also perform a little bit different on the skin.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: Because a lot of the designer fragrances, they're kind of designed to uh capture capture your attention right there in a spot.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_04: So a lot of times the fragrance doesn't change as much.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and of course, it's not the case for every single fragrance because there's still the the you know the the chemistry the chemistry of each person who's wearing it, because that's gonna also determine how the fragrance opens up and performs and lasts, etc.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um but at the same time, you know, how do you when when you're landing on a site, for example, let's say you heard somebody speak highly of a fragrance, and then you're landing on a website, um, for example, that you're you know starting to search this fragrance and do your research, how is the what does the description look like?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_04: What are the words that are poetic at and at the same time relatable?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_04: You know, how can I understand what this fragrance is about?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_04: And also how can I sample it?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and this is the question that I think has been a really big um point to stress for a lot of brands that have, you know, slowly adapted because back in the day um there was really no concept of samples unless these were really, really big brands that were designer brands.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_04: And now I think consumers used to being able to ask for, you know, a sample.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_04: Is there uh a sample to buy um that I can order, live with for as long as I need, wear it in my comfortable setting, able to understand it and wear it in different moods and kind of different settings and really understand do I want this fragrance, do I want to splurge$150,$200,$300 on it or not?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and I think that's also changing kind of how brands are approaching things because, for example, at Twisted Lily, you know, we have we put a huge focus on sampling, you know, because somebody is landing on a site and how do you provide this experience to them?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like we just recently we launched um a whole section that is browse by mood.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_04: So you can, you know, see, are you happy?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, do you want something uplifting?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_04: Are you feeling kind of more, you know, um, do you want something a little bit more intoxicating and more sophisticated?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it allows to kind of um, you know, to just direct people better.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: And then they can dive in deeper as well.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_04: Because um uh, like for example, Michael Edwards, who is absolutely a darling of the industry, and he created this uh concept of a fragrance wheel.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah so you can classify all these fragrances, and also we added this to the site so you can type in the name of the fragrance that you have previously worn, and it will provide you with three different options from our curation that you can sample afterwards.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and everything is available in a sample format that can be purchased.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: Brands are also offering, and this is across the entire industry, they're offering discovery sets.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_04: So you can get familiar with the brands through an entire discovery set and kind of see what is the whole story of the brands.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, kind of these, it's almost like reading a book, you know, to me, um, and really getting familiar with the DNA of each brand, which I think is marvelous because just a few years ago, discovery sets were not exactly a regular thing.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_04: It was not really a big part of the conversation.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: It was just at the beginning.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so it's really exciting to see all these things that brands and the industry in general is doing to make the experience of discovery of niche fragrances so much cooler, more fun, more in depth, more personal, and just easy, you know, because I think that at the end of the day, you do have to make um you have to make this a convenient journey.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_04: But I think it's also so exciting because during a pandemic, for example, so many people have turned to um ordering fragrances and discovery sets and having these online masterclasses.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_04: And it was the way to escape.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_04: It was it was a way to discover, it was a way to soothe, you know, their anxiety.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it was a way to discover something completely out of their comfort zone, something they they could have possibly disregarded if they were just running through the shop and just smelling something really quickly.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because the niche world offers such a variety of things.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_04: And now there's even candles, you know, and all these different things that a lot of brands have added.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, Maison Francis Curgeon actually going back to um the conversation, uh, is now launched.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I believe they had this before, but now it's like this big relaunch of uh laundry detergent.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_04: So now you can add that as part of this kind of olfactory um, you know, layer to your home and everything you experience at home and you know the the laundry process, which doesn't seem to be everybody's favorite.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um there's so much that this field I think offers.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_04: And then of course, I think you know, it's transparency and being able to connect with the creator, with the perfumer, yeah, and learn about their craft because you know, there's so many um challenges in the industry that um I think are a matter of time when they're gonna get you know fully addressed and fixed.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_04: But one of those challenges is uh, you know, for for many years, perfumers were not really a credited for their work and they just kind of work behind the scenes.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_04: But that is strange because you would you usually do talk about the author of the book, for example, or the author of the song, you know, and it was just it, there's a lot of kind of still blurry lines that that need to be um, you know, that that needs to change, and a lot of them is protection of the formulas, you know.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_04: We see so many dupes as they call them.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's too many at this point.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and there's you know, on one side, people can argue and they say, well, there these are more affordable options, but I can also argue that they're very questionable options, um, because nobody really uh knows what goes in there.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of times these brands are sometimes a bit shady.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_04: But, you know, of course, um, it also goes back to the conversation about if a brand and a perfumer develops a formula and they cannot protect it in any way, um, you know, that's not exactly something that is right, you know.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that consumers are also starting to understand this um better.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_04: And uh they're also speaking out.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that there's that shift that's happening, which is very exciting to see, you know, as a stand and you know, part of the and being part of the industry as well.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I mean, I think it's it's really interesting what you said about the dupes as well, because I was really thinking about it.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: I was, you know, it coming to just this, you know, memory I had of going into like a Walgreens.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember, I don't remember what the brand is called, but they have like literally every fragrance that's been famous and like it's been made into a dupe.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I know that it's like, you know, in on one side, I have mixed feelings about fragrance dupes because, you know, back in the day growing up, fragrances were, and they still are, you know, they were expensive, right?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't very easy to collect them.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't very easy, you know, if you're a college student and you really, really love fragrance, and that's one of your, you know, staple beauty um products that is for me, it was right.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I I would have a hard time because I'm like, oh, I really want to buy that.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: But like I remember, you know, there were there was this aspect of accessibility there that I really enjoyed.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: But now it's gotten so out of control that like I, and the older I got, I have gotten, I think I've really started to appreciate like what you um just kind of mentioned, you know, just now was this idea of like who's behind the fragrance?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, where did this come from?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: Where did this originate from?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: What's the story behind it?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and there's so much more to a fragrance than just copying the notes, you know, and that's where I, that's where I get really, really um excited, you know, when I talk about, you know, this with anybody, you know, that's an expert, because um it can a fragrance can make or break, you know, the way you feel, your confidence level, your the way you carry yourself in the world, you know, um ever it's tied to so many things.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the really cool part about the old factory system, as even as a scientist, we don't know anything about it.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's more mysterious than the eye, the vision, you know, the sense of vision, because it's is you know, you find one thing out and then you realize, okay, wait a minute, you know, this might not be the the final pathway or the final thing I need to understand.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, on that note, I want to actually, you know, just kind of understand, I guess, your personal, like, I guess, way of assessing, you know, is a fragrance, um, is it something new?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: Is it something standout versus something you've already experienced before?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like how what is that process like for you when you like, you know, you're looking for something unique, you're you want to find something different that's not in your collection, which I mean with 900 different scents, I'm sure that's difficult, you know.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: But I would I just out of curiosity, I'd love to know.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_04: I love that question, you know, because um I remember just a few years ago, they're probably even, you know, half of launches that are happening today.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: So it's impossible, even for me.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_04: I try to really smell new things every single day just to be able to, you know, stay on top of my game.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_04: But even with that, there's no way I can get through all of the novelties.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I do try to kind of, you know, sift through them and see what are kind of the highlights that I really have to prioritize in my speed smelling performance, you know, kind of just like this approach, because sometimes that that's what has to happen, at least in the initial stages.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but to be honest with you, I always look at the creator, you know, because for me, the brands, um, if we're if we're looking just if we're smelling blind something, let's say I don't, I have no idea who this is.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_04: Of course, I look for things that are that I haven't really encountered before, whether it's a specific blend or it's the way the the fragrance opens up, you know, is it sometimes the formula is turned kind of upside down?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_04: You know, usually we're we're seeing traditional citruses on top that are very fleeting, um, kind of a core base of either florals or sometimes spices, and then the concrete kind of bases of like musks and woods.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes you have, you know, everything is kind of upside down.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes you have these really kind of crazy notes or even the story about the perfume.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: So a lot of times, you know, we do have some provocateurs of the niche fragrance industry, and they're very risky in how they approach creation, which I find to be refreshing, you know, because it's it's always interesting to see uh when people take risks.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: And that's another thing that, by the way, I think sets uh the niche industry apart because it's hard to take a risk when you're, you know, uh really developing a fragrance for everybody to like, which is kind of the designer approach.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_04: And the niche industry allows to kind of have this wild playground of things that you can you can do.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_04: There is, you know, one of one of these people is Etienne Diswatched.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_04: He's uh creative director uh for Etat Le Bidourange.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I might be mispronouncing that by the way, don't hold me to it because my French is so far from it's okay.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: We're in the same boat.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because it's like my pronunciation sometimes for these brands.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, oh, I'm butchering this one.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but you know, he uh created a fragrance that was called secretions magnifique, for example, and it was inspired by these bodily fluids, you know, such as semen and blood and breast milk and people, and you read that description and you're both repulsed in a way, but you're very curious, and then you smell it, and it's this combination of notes that sometimes actually works.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_04: I have encountered a few people in my life, only a few, but you know, that fragrance worked amazing on them.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_04: And for me, I mean it doesn't necessarily work for me, but that's the beauty of fragrances, you know, to each their own, and everybody is gonna have a different kind of reaction and experience.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_04: And um, I think that's what makes it so beautiful.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you have, of course, people like Serge Lutans who were who created these dark and gothic kind of things, but then, you know, for me, I also look at the approach to overall creation.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that um this is where a lot of times it's that blend of working of the creative director of the brand and the humor as well.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_04: And one of the people that I absolutely have to, you know, discuss is Renault Salmon, is that he's a oh I might be mispronouncing that as well, but you know, he's the chief creative um officer of Amoage.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_04: And he's actually a chief experience officer, which is not um which is not like a title that we've seen very often before, because it is his job to create an overall 360-degree experience for anyone encountering Amoage brands.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_04: And this is one of the oldest brands, so it was very interesting to see how he came um you know to uh to the house after the after Christopher Chung was was um creating fragrances for quite some time for the house.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_04: And his focus, you know, was to create a to create a position to cultivate and celebrate the origin of the brand while simultaneously proving that you know this true luxury brand can originate from anywhere in the world and not just you know places like Paris or Milan or New York, you know, which is the usual kind of uh places of origin for a lot of big brands.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it's he's began collaborating with these different artists, you know, through different mediums expressing the idea.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_04: So it was the video and the sound and working with the perfumer, you know, to recreate all these different experiences of Oman in general, because that is the the origin of amouash, and all the things that are native to Oman, for example, and really immersing the consumer, you know, in this absolute new world, you know, because I think, of course, if you are, it's like watching a movie almost in, you know, in 3D, 4D, where you're like, whoa, this is really intense and this is really immersive and really beautiful.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, and then there's things that are just fun and provocative, you know, things like acro.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, acro was created by Olivia Cresp, who is the perfumer behind some of the biggest things that, you know, some of the biggest fragrances like Angel Um and Dolce Gabbano light blue that so many of us, you know, love and and warn out.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_04: That is my college fragrance.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_04: Mine too.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_04: I remember meeting Olivia and I was like a little groupy.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, oh my god.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_04: Because these these memories are priceless, you know, and uh and he created a brand that is uh that celebrates you know all the human vices.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_04: So there's like um a wake for the addiction to coffee, and there's haze, which is an addiction, you know, or not addiction, but I would say indulgence in, you know, a joint.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_04: There are things like um ink, which kind of ties back to the uh the experience of getting your first tattoo.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_04: My experience only happened in the 30s.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, most people are like, oh yeah, I remember getting my first one when I was 18.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, well, I was a late bloomer.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um so the funny part is that I got the tattoo two weeks before the official launch of the fragrance.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_04: So um, but during the launch, like you could have gotten a tattoo because it was at the tattoo parlor.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I just thought it was such a cool approach.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_04: So I think today it's about this um, you know, it's the creative direction of and the vision.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, it's about how do you how the execution, you know, and what it, how do you immerse the consumer?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_04: How do you kind of wrap this product in into what and how do you deliver it?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, and how do you tell your consumer the story?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: Is it interesting?
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: Is it fun?
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: Is it exciting?
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_04: Is it provocative?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: Is it something that's you know very different?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_04: Because there's so many brands launching.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of them are just kind of, you know, I mean, as sad as as it is, but I think it's kind of like this natural selection where only the brands that will be continuously innovating and brands that are gonna be really understanding how to speak to this consumer who is changing so rapidly, you know, there's so many there's so many different things to it.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like I myself, I'm like sometimes I I watch, you know, TikTok or YouTube and the consumer is changing, you know, there's so many um Gen Z people who are entering this space.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like rediscovery.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's like rediscovery and like, you know, it's like morphing into completely something different.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like I even with like, you know, you you look at it, you know, in the sense of like, okay, you guys might be, for example, you brought up light blue, beautiful fragrance.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: If anyone talk, you know, talks about it, most of us know how to express ourselves when we talk about that fragrance.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_03: But like people are now discovering it.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, you know, you kind of are I go through it like, you know, as a consumer, it like brings up this whole like interest and this intrigue around how are they going to react to this, you know, like compared to how I did when I first discovered it.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: So it's definitely interesting to watch, you know, it's definitely a um a journey.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's what for me in in fragrance, like it for me, fragrance is I think one of the most like closely tied areas of wellness and self-care to like just, you know, in terms of like meditation or like just sitting down or like something that's slower, right?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: More slow paced than like that instant gratification you get with like makeup or like, you know, something like that.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think you have to really take your time with fragrances and you have to really kind of allow yourself to experience them, allow yourself to feel whatever it is you're gonna feel when you wear that.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's just such a cool experience to not only undergo, but then watch somebody else, you know, experience at the same time, or maybe later on.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, uh it's it's a fascinating world, you know.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_04: I I love that you mentioned wellness because you know, I think that that's what I think that that's what people started actually viewing fragrances more during the during the pandemic, because before it was kind of something you put on, you know, you're off into the world, whether is it to, you know, seduce or whatever it is that a lot of times people think fragrances, but it's so much more, you know, it's an expression of style, it's an expression of it's a non-verbal communication, and it's a very powerful one.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I find that, you know, and it's a huge part of the wellness because it is something that's yours and it's it feels very intimate and very personal.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it's interesting because um this is something that I've never seen before, but actually um commodity, which was um bought out by uh Vicken, also who is the the owner of your perfumes, and he really created this whole concept of sense space, you know, and kind of being able to pick your projection, even, which is not something that we have seen before.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_04: And one of the questions that a lot of times I used to hear when I used to be in retail is does it have a strong projection?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_04: Because some people were worried because they wanted the fragrance to walk in before they do into the room.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_04: And some people wanted this to be more of their personal kind of little space.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_04: So I think there's a lot of um, there's definitely this amazing opportunity.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: Opportunity for brands to explore all these different things because everybody has their own needs.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I think people are starting to understand that fragrances is something that you can really experiment with.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_04: And it's not something that, you know, you're not, and it's also becoming more approachable because brands are kind of creating more travel sizes, more like of these 10 milliliters sometimes, you know, decants that you can kind of, you know, pop into like these atomizers that you can take with you on a go.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_04: And they're a lot more approachable in terms of pricing.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you can explore sense in terms of uh, you know, candles and or diffusers, or you know, so many different kind of mediums of exploration there.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's amazing, you know.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_04: I think, but I think for me it's uh it's definitely very, very tied to also this this part of self-care, you know, because it's it's something that's mine.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's something that it's almost like a skin that I can change, you know, different um personality that I can just try on for the day and change if I don't like it, you know.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it's very, very exciting, but it's it's also amazing to see people exploring more, you know, this concept of uh signature scent, you know, of having one scent for the rest of your life.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I mean, look, I I don't have anything against it.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: If that's if if that's somebody's thing, that's that's their thing.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm nobody to judge.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_04: I just think it's why why limit yourself when you can almost like it's like food, you know, you can explore and it's a never-ending um exploration of something delicious, exciting, interesting.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_04: So there's so much to play with and so much in the future that will be created.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: No, I know, and I I absolutely agree with you.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, and it's it's a very interesting, you know, topic for sure.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: So Olia, I want to know about trends now because I I really want you guys to kind of school us on what is, you know, really trending right now, or what are some of the fragrances that we should be like kind of focused on wearing right now?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_04: From yeah, no, I I love that question because you know, I mean, we trends trends come and go.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, just like in fashion, um, I think in fashion they're they are changing a little bit quicker.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because every season it's like throw these things out and get these things in uh into your closet, which I find to be ridiculous because I'm like, I'm not throwing out half my closet every season.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I do think um, you know, with fragrances, there are certain almost kind of like decades, you know, and sometimes maybe this decade will be a little bit shorter.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I do think there's been like the whole reign of vanilla fragrances for quite some time, which is interesting because we have seen this sometime before, you know, when you had this kind of birth of angel that was created by Olivia Cresp, who, you know, we spoke about earlier.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_04: And this was the beginning of this whole gourmand area um and genre.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of people started wearing and experimenting, even though it took some time to take off.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_04: And then we're seeing like this huge comeback to vanilla.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and uh now you have, you know, and all these kind of gourmand kind of edible fragrances.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_04: But then at the same time, what I think is gonna be happening, and this is already starting to kind of roll in, is multiple trends that are you know covering kind of more earthy and green kind of aspect.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_04: I think we're gonna see a lot more vegetal, um, kind of leaning fragrances with a lot of minerality almost coming back to this botanical um sustainability, you know, driving back with nature.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I think this is this is something that's that's been part of conversation for a lot of houses.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we've seen big brands like Hermes um launch H24, which just has that green kind of steel sappiness.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_04: We've seen uh diptyque coyoto, which had this beat kind of minerality to it and had this vegetal kind of aspect.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_04: We've seen Lotzan launched a whole collection around vegetables, and it was quite interesting to see, you know, and I think another huge trend that is like right at the cusp, and I think it's already starting to explode, but it's just gonna get bigger, is the focus on drinks and beverages in general.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we've seen tea play out in so many different ways.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_04: We've seen coffee fragrances, but now it's getting kind of uh bigger and broader and more fun because we're seeing so many interesting releases, like Replica just launched on a date with the Champagne Accord, Atelier de Zor launched, which is a niche fragrance house, and they launched uh a fragrance that's called Pink Me Up, and it's all about champagne, um, and also kind of coming out of the pandemic and celebration of life.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then Mancera is launching a fragrance that's I think I'm mostly excited about, and it's a fragrance that's called Tonka Cola.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm a kid who grew up like drinking Coca-Cola and Pepsi.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_04: So this one kind of hits close home, even though I wasn't allowed to have it very often.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_04: But now I'm like, I can do it.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_04: So there's a lot of things kind of uh in that genre, and I think it's really fun.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there's a lot of brands that are gonna be coming out and exploring this kind of area, whether it's something alcoholic or it's matcha, definitely be on a lookout for a big brand to be launching something around that note.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna say I can't, I'm not allowed to say who yet, but there's gonna be a really, really big release that's gonna be around that note.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_04: And we again we've seen, you know, replica kind of uh dip their toes into this whole matcha category.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really interesting to see.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I also think that in general, we're gonna have a lot more focus on AI.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_04: You know, AI has been kind of, you know, uh, you know, changing everything in every industry.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's definitely gonna um play a big role.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm curious to see what kind of fragrances are gonna be AI generated, um, or just approach.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like just recently, uh somebody from the industry who I I value her opinion and I respect her very much, Olivia Yesler.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not sure if again I'm pronouncing her last name, but she's you know, she's a really interesting person in industry who talks about actually the future kind of of um this industry.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_04: And she came up with the incredible tool.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_04: It was called Sengenie.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_04: And the uh tool basically allows you to search for fragrance based on words that you put in.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_04: So they could be like anything, adjectives, nouns, you know, multiple things that you're just kind of plugging in, and then it curates based on that.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I have to say I put it to the test.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_04: So her and I kind of did it together as we want to call, and I have to say it was very spot on.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's really interesting to see how we're gonna see this whole thing, you know, play out in metaverse, and obviously a lot of brands exploring in that genre.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sure, you know, she just recently talked about how Google is kind of developing their whole um sense and and how we're gonna be able to, you know, eventually smell things through the screen, which I think is gonna be absolutely incredible, you know, and I think a big focus on you know things that are gonna be a little bit more, you know, kind of blend of masculinity and femininity, we're already seeing this.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's gonna be more common because, you know, like Yves Saint Laurent, for example, they launched Libre, which is um that kind of modernized feminine fougère, and fougère is naturally a masculine category.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_04: It's been it's been always considered like the foundation of men's colognes, um, or profans at this, you know, at this point, but even though cologne is a concentration.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_04: But then you have this whole reinterpretation of the classic eau de cologne, which as we know is like that this blend of citruses and woods in a dry down.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_04: And now we're seeing that kind of transition into a category that's now more accepted by you know the feminine market.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_04: And the interesting part that I find, and this is something that I've seen, you know, over the years, is that you never hear a woman, you know, asking you, is this fragrance for women?
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you know, you never hear that question from women, but from men, it's like you hear that all the time.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_04: They go, Is this for men?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_04: I just want to make sure is this for men.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I think we're seeing like less of that now, and people are more open to looking at accords because accords and and notes, they're just like food.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_04: You can't exactly put a gender.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it's it's refreshing to see.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, sustainability across the whole sector.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_04: I think this is gonna be this is already a big conversation, and um, and I think brands and people, consumers paying attention.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really exciting to see.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I have to say, I have to mention this brand because this is something that um I think is gonna be very interesting for you because I mean, the um your podcast is called Skinarch Anarchy.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that this brand, so the brand is called House of Bo.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_04: And it was started by Bernardo Muller and his husband Giancarlo, who's a neurosurgeon.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_04: And um they're you know, it was inspired by their native Mexico.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_04: The scents are incredible, but what really, really um drove it home for me is they developed this nourishing primer, which is a skincare um product.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_04: And it has this hyaluronic acid, it has pomegranate extract, vitamin E, aloe vera, and um sentinella asiatica.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_04: And it's interesting because it hydrates and nourishes your skin, which is the best way to apply your fragrance because a lot of people complain about um longevity.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_04: And if you don't have a hydrated skin, no matter how strong the fragrance is, most likely it's not gonna last.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_04: So this nourishing primer is really one of its kinds.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's the first one to hit um the market.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_04: And it has this, you know, it's basically you have to apply it on.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_04: It has this kind of serum-like consistency.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_04: It's really chic.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_04: And it has these nourishing properties that prep your skin before fragrance application and allow it to last longer.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was literally, I don't want to interrupt you, but I was literally talking to you when I was talking to Vernonique uh goodbye on one of our episodes together.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: This is literally one of the things we came.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, why don't we make a primer?
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_03: I love Vernoni, by the way.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she's amazing.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, she's amazing.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, no, I mean that's exactly what came up was this idea of this primer because people are always talking about the longevity longevity of perfumes, you know, on their skin.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was like, Yeah, why hasn't somebody come up with a primer, you know, like just to that universal?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but you know what?
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, Verenik also has um, I believe it's like Poin G, because I think I may, um, I don't remember, but there was a lotion that she created.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_04: I know that she has a fragrance that's that's uh Le Point G, which is kind of that base that you can mix with other things.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I do think that she does have some kind of lotion that's supposed to kind of do that.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, also.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I think she definitely has touched up on that category.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_04: And I love her fragrances.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_04: I think Veronique is such a visionary and she drives, you know, with the whole wellness component and um meditation and kind of just you know, having sense that are they're supposed to ground you.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I love her work.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_04: I I wear quite a few of my her Rose de Mai is oh my god.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, every single one is like one of my I mean, honestly, her I have her whole collection and I just am obsessed in her new aroma line.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, that's you know, we don't want to like we don't want to go down that rabbit hole because you'll never get me to stop, you know.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_04: But like I know you and I we're gonna be we're gonna be on this podcast until like it's gonna be evening.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna be like, wait, it's I've been hours.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_04: We're still talking.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_04: But I love that, you know, I love that, I love that this is um this is something that you're passionate about because I again, yeah, I can talk about this for hours, so you better cut me off because Oh, no, no, no.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_03: I would I you know I would never cut you off.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm honestly it's like more it's so interesting to me how you approach, you know, this because I want to know, like, you know, in terms of like upcoming trends, like how does that work for you?
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, in terms of what you're seeing in terms of um what's going to happen in the next couple of years, you know, but that's not so immediate.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_03: Because you had mentioned the the vanilla scents and the more, you know, this this whole genre of perfumes.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, going forward, because I'm more of like a citrusy person, right?
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like I love fragrances that are light and airy and just, you know, they're not very heavy.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I oftentimes like times like avoid like sweet scents because I just can't, like, I just can't do it, you know.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_03: But like I'm curious, like, you know, what do you see for the future?
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's kind of, I mean, on one hand, we can, you know, of course, try to predict certain things, but I do think that it's it's a little bit hard because in a in a way, it's also a reflection of what is happening in a world, um, which we all see for the past few years have been quite unstable to predict anything.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_04: But at the same time, I think that a huge component is gonna be layering because that will, and it's already big, you know, people are already exploring it.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_04: Some brands have been exploring it for quite some time, but I think it's also gonna allow um you to play with your own kind of blends, you know, because you can have a whole wardrobe, you know, of fragrances that you can mix and match.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_04: And just like you said, you like citruses, but you may want to kind of amplify it a little bit for the evening.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_04: You may want to add a little bit of that kind of sweetness on a certain day.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it also is gonna create a lot of possibilities for this individuality and this kind of like sun styling direction where it's already happening.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_04: You know, people are experimenting.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_04: I think we're moving away from this concept of, oh my God, this is not something to, you know, to not blend.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I know some perfumers are gonna disagree.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_04: I even may know who this is because he scolded me for saying that I should blend fragrances.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, oh no.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but at the same time, I do think that, you know, a consumer who's not necessarily obsessed, who is just, you know, likes fragrances, uses them as an accessory, um, uses them to kind of amplify their mood or soothe their mood, you know, kind of tap into these things as something that uh is not necessarily like art to them.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_04: I think that it creates exactly like these things that you have in your in your wardrobe.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you can layer pieces, excuse me, in your wardrobe.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what allows for so many possibilities.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that that we're gonna see a lot more of that because um not a lot of people, of course, there's a category who likes very intense fragrances and they care about projection and they call them, you know, the beast mode, um, as we call it in the community.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_04: But then the majority of people kind of want to be able to wear the fragrance and not have to offend anybody.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I think possibly this whole layering component um is gonna be able to, you know, allow you to wear something lighter in the morning and then have something a little bit darker, amplify it depending on your mood.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_04: And again, like we're already seeing this, but I think it's just gonna get, you know, more intense.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that with the creation of AI and just with, you know, innovation, we're gonna see a lot more interesting accords, you know, that are gonna be synthetic.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_04: But um, at the same time, there's nothing wrong with synthetics.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I always I always have this conversation with so many people who sometimes think that synthetic accords, you know, are somehow a lower quality than some of the naturals.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_04: But I do have to say that, you know, when when it comes to natural sandalwood, that takes years and years and years, takes over 25, sometimes even longer, to for the tree to mature.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_04: And then you have to do it in a sustainable way.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_04: And there's not that many trees left to begin with.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_04: Same thing with ood, you know, and a lot of naturals, vanilla prices also really fluctuate depending on the weather and the season and the harvest.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that we're gonna see a lot more of these um synthetic, uh beautiful innovations, you know, that are gonna be wearable and most of the time hyperallergenic, like this big perfume that everybody talks about, not a perfume by Juliet has a gun, um, is one of the only fragrances that I would say, you know, if you have to recommend it to somebody who's prone to allergies because it's made with one ingredient that's literally hypoallergenic.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that as we're moving into the future, we're gonna see a lot more kind of experimentation in that, in that uh field.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, kind of a blend of everything that I've been mentioning before, but it's interesting, you know, and that's what I guess these are just some of the predictions, but I'm still really, really curious because of course none of us have a crystal ball, but I'm curious to see um where, you know, where we're gonna find ourselves in the next five years.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that also designer houses are gonna be taking a little bit more risks.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_04: I think they already are starting to do that because they're looking at the niche sector that's growing rapidly, and they're kind of seeing that people are open to exploring, you know, they are open to trying out new things.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that also is driving this whole concept of um smaller sizes, you know, which we touched upon before, and being able to sample a variety and being able to pick something up in a in a size of the 10 milliliter, even you know, for somebody who is, you know, a student or somebody who's um, oh, of course, here you go.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_03: You got New York noises in a background in New York City.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but yeah, so these are just some of the things.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_04: But of course, none of us have a crystal ball.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_04: But I hope that I hope to see some of these things that I'm mentioning, you know, in the future because um it's exciting.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's exciting to see.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_04: And this is what keeps driving my curiosity is that really at the end of the day, you know, you wake up and you really are the whole world is there to explore.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's what's uh one of the most beautiful things about this industry.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I really love like how you broke it down because you're so right, you know, Oli, I I can only speak from my perspective.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, as a consumer, I definitely know what you mean when you say, you know, things change so rapidly because I kid you not, sometimes, you know, I find myself, you know, now that this I've started the series, you know, I'll be trying a perfume and I'm like, I never thought I'd enjoy that.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I never thought that would be up my alley just looking at the different um, you know, like the the words and the notes that are listed like on the website, but then you try it and it's like this immense like shock, right?
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, oh my gosh, I didn't even know that would like smell good on me.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think it's definitely gonna be interesting to see like how um everything evolves because I know that Gen Z is obviously getting into fragrance, you know, they're getting into like wanting to understand.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I just um, you know, I'm curious to see how those, how that impacts these trends and how that impacts, you know, how companies approach, you know, and fragrance houses approach marketing to the like the masses, you know what I mean, to where people are now because you know, one of the coolest things, and I I don't know if you've noticed the same thing or if I'm hallucinating, you know, but like I've seen that a lot of um, you know, yet the younger crowd, they do want to know, you know, they want to know like what are the really nice um fragrance houses?
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_03: Where is it, you know, what are the greatest destinations for me to go and pick up a good fragrance?
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, where should I be shopping for this stuff, you know?
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_03: And and so when I look at them being curious about this, it makes me excited for the future, you know, to see how brands will incorporate this into their everyday and you know, handling those, you know, a larger sum of consumers, you know.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and especially now with like the influencer industry, like they're really kind of, you know, they're putting it out there.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, for example, Jackie Aina has a phenomenal collection, you know.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: So like somebody like that, you know, putting it out there and her like really putting her face behind this and and investing in things like, you know, good fragrances, I love that.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I love seeing that because it's like I I would love to get the stigma out, you know, of this industry where it's like what, you know, kind of something what you said, which is like, you know, men's fragrance versus women's fragrance, or, you know, can we make everything, you know, unisex?
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_03: Those kind of topics, you know, I would I'm really curious to see what happens there.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_03: But um, as far as trends go, I love all the insight that you've shared here.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I I'm just so excited to see, you know, in the next couple of years how everything transforms with the metaverse and and all the good things that are coming.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_04: So me too.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's really, you know, everything you said absolutely spot on because I think that it's about the growing community.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, that's what we've seen at Twisted Lily that, you know, the more people come on board and the more conversations we have, and the more transparent that we can, you know, on our hand on our side can make the business and you know, with the brands, interviews with perfumers, with creative directors.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_04: I try to do that on my channel as well.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_04: It's that community, you know, sense of community conversation, transparency, and bonds, you know, because you can really truly find some amazing people in the industry.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that is what's incredible because it really brings people together.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_04: It makes absolutely a difference in your mood.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_04: It makes people happy, and it just creates, you know, this good kind of vibe environment.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I think we all can can use a little bit of that in our lives.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the good vibes thing is so important what you said.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it really is, it comes down to, I think, for me, personally speaking, yeah, especially for me, you know, why I love fragrance so much, you know, like I think most consumers is that feeling, you know, it's the feeling that it brings to you and it's the feeling that you're left with.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, like we had talked about earlier, you know, the memories that are associated with fragrance, like all of that stuff for me is so intriguing.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, you know, finding light in a very gray area, you know, and and especially looking at, you know, back in early 2000s, we didn't know anything, right?
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't know anything about fragrance.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_03: I felt like fragrance was this mystical world that I would never understand.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, if I could somehow, you know, once in a while I'd come across a scent that I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing, you know, but it was never something I felt educated about, you know, and it was never something I felt like, okay, this is I know this, you know, I know this field now.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_03: And but now, you know, speaking to people like yourself, you know, it's becoming more clear and it's becoming less of this haze, you know, and more of this understanding is developing around what do we need to understand as consumers.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like obviously, you as an expert, you know way.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: more, you know, than any like standard consumer will ever know.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_03: But like even to hear like what you think are going to be upcoming trends, it gives us a nice little, you know, I guess lead on what to really kind of look for in the marketing and then also how to approach it, you know, when we are trying to find that new scent for whatever reason.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I I really, you know, I I really value, you know, what you've shared with us here.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_04: No, I think that, you know, I think it's it's also about asking questions and not being afraid to to to sample something.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like you said, you found something that you wouldn't expect to like and then you fell in love with it.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_04: So I think stepping out of your comfort zone, trying things out, you know, and really just not looking at fragrances as something non-approachable, which I think sometimes happens with a lot of these, you know, kind of fancy brands, but at the same but at the end of the day, it's just perfume.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's there to make you happy.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_04: So you know at the end of the day, that's what really matters, you know, your your state of mind and mood.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I I love it.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_03: I love it too.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so glad that we had this conversation.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad that we, you know, touch base, but I would love for everyone listening to chime in and let us know if there's some questions you guys have.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_03: And you know maybe we can get some QA going and you know Olia you can come back and answer some questions for us to help you know clear the case.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_04: We can host you on on Twisted Lily you this could be an interesting interview too because you know we can we can we can definitely explore so many different things you know because we love to you know I love to interview and um you know the brand director she Elaine she's amazing and she she loves to kind of interview everybody from the industry and you have so much to offer so I think we're gonna get this conversation going.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_04: I'm always here you know at your disposal I love this you know I'm so grateful that you invited me because this is a chance to to speak about the things that I love.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm really really excited and um I I look forward to our relationship just getting stronger and for chat about this.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah no you're my you're my new uh scent fairy oh you're my new best friend when it comes to scents yeah I'm really excited and you know I I think that for everyone listening out there yeah like Olia said you know don't be scared to experiment go out there and find something that makes you happy and and just have fun.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: And you know I I really am looking forward to everyone's feedback.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_03: But thank you again and for everyone listening I will be back next time.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 1:08:21
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• 1:08:53
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• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.