Latest / WTF! Women Talk Finance / EP 07: Most Profitable Investments We Ever Made

Transcript

EP 07: Most Profitable Investments We Ever Made · WTF! Women Talk Finance

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Jackie.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Candice.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: And this is WTF.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Grab your coffee, wine, water bottle, emotional support snack, no judgment.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: And let's get into it.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yay, we're back.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Hi.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: We're both wearing color today, too.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: This there must be like a full moon, Mercury retrograde, something in the water for us to both wear color.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's like gloomy out here.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's overcasty, so maybe I felt like I needed to not wear my typical uniform.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: We'll go with that.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like 80.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's 80 here.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: 85, maybe.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's so hot.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we got storms rolling in.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I hope.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Love a good storm here.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: We look like a little bright sunshiny day, which is adorable.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're like the sunshine, I'm the cloud.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, you're okay.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: The sky and the sun.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: For anybody who's like not watching, we're wearing yellow and blue, which is not our normal uniform.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Not our normal uniform.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, today we're diving right in.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about the most profitable investments we ever made that weren't financial.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I would actually probably posit that all of the most profitable investments I've ever made have not been financial.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Should I say more?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you should say more.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think this episode's gonna go the direction of talking about how we invest in ourselves and invest in experiences and invest in like up-leveling our knowledge or um our our self-care, anything that's tied to like self-worth, I think those have been my most profitable investments.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: I would agree.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think some of my most profitable investments, I was just um talking about this the other day, have been the investments I didn't make or the things I said no to.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: The things I said no, the things I held a boundary on, even if it was really hard to do.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um those have been sometimes like those, I think those have been the best investments.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Then, yes, I would agree with that.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then my most profitable one, most top, top, tip top, would have been walking away from a job that was absolutely brutalizing me.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: So let's let's dive into that one because I think that you and I both have stories of that.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I I want to talk through that because that I'm seeing more and more of my friends, um, people I'm close to who are either saying no to jobs that would just be absolutely killers, or stepping away, taking significantly less money to get some quality of life.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: So can you tell?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: I know it.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: I know it, but I brought my tea, so you tell me the story, boo-boo.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it was my first job out of law school, and I want to preface this by saying like, I have so much gratitude to this person that like took me under their wing, brought me in, gave me a job.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Go back to 2008.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: This was when like the Great Recession was just about to hit.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: I came out of law school.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: At that time, there were four law schools in Minnesota, and there were like no jobs for lawyers coming out.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: So all of our millennials are like, yes, Queen, we know this.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: We know this story.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: I graduated with attorneys that went to work at Caribou, Caribou Coffee, because there was there were no jobs.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I had an uncle who was in the bankruptcy space in North Dakota that was like connecting me to different people.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, maybe they'll have a job for you, maybe they'll have a job for you.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And through a chain of connections, I did.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: I started I started working at a boutique bankruptcy firm.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: The owner of it was a woman who was very talented, very um, she was she was hard to work for.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: She taught me a lot.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm grateful for the experience.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: But when I say that job raked my soul, like I, my nervous system was like the crunchy, crunchy ash of the dead leaves in the spring that have been set out all winter, that have died and fallen from the tree, been covered in heaps of snow, have just now seen the light of day and are drying out into the powder that's gonna be like the next allergen.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: That was my nervous system.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Were you on like kind kind of constantly vibrating just from nerves at that point in life?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know if vibrating was the word.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was, if you could describe a permanent crash out, I was on permanent crash out.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was sick all the time.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was nervous and anxious and um like unsettled all of the time.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I actually turned my ringer off of my phone.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: No vibration, no light, no sound.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like this device has not made a noise since 2010.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because I couldn't.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I couldn't.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Everything was just like panic.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so my dear friend, her father, actually saw what it was doing to me.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to add, my own dad is very much like, um, just hang in there, right?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, great, great.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was taught great work ethic.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, ride it out, hang in there, keep going.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: You can do it.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that attitude.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: But my friend's dad was like, no, like you're being so abused.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're not okay.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting you out of there.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so he was instrumental in helping me.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I didn't have the confidence.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have a shred of like, I'm okay, I'm safe, I can go quit this job.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even have that.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it took him being like, I'm gonna wrap around you with a plan.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to tell you a time, like a day and time.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: He called my office and he goes, go have the conversation that we put together, the plan, go tell her what the plan, whatever.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: He like step by step by step walked me through it.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And in that moment, yeah, I was a shaky, like I blacked, blacked out.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I walked into memories and I was like, um, it whatever, whatever, whatever he had like coached me to say, I was like, okay.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: I blacked out, but somehow I said, like, I'm quitting.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're not still there.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Can you imagine what that does to your body when you I know what it does to my body when I'm in that like constant mode of panic and wait waiting and the alerts and just your heart sinks every time your phone goes off.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: And what that probably does to your to your actual physical self, also your your of course your your spirit, but like your physical body is is just absolutely going through it.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, we've had this conversation, like disease is we believe you know, dis-ease in the body.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: So coming back to like how this was like leaving, leaving that environment, that situation, that job was the most profitable investment I ever made, and it was not a financial one because had I stayed, the dis ease in my body, it is not a stretch to think that I would have taken 10 to 15 years off my life.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: I could have got like I said, I was I was sick all the time then, but that was sick with like suppressed immune system, colds, flus, that kind of stuff.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: I could have gotten sick, sick, sick.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like cancer type sick, where your whole body is just in metabolic crash out, not okay.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, that's that's my story.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to hear yours.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um I love that story.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: I well, well, let's let's go to the next part of the story, though.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think the next part of the story is like really the important part, right?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not just like the escape, it's like the rest, like the getting your getting to the next chapter.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it takes time to get there, right?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like the next day, it's not like you woke up and you were like, Oh my god, everything's great again.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm feeling wonderful.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: How long did it take for you to recover?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what was your continued time investment?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Five years.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Five years.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I can I can answer that definitively because I know when I left, I know how much yoga and energy work and Reiki clearing, and like you name it, I was doing it to cope at that time.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: I know how much, how many different modalities I had to leverage to get back to like a neutral baseline of I'm okay.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember it was then 2018, it was like January in 2018.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember saying, I I like my life, like I'm good, I'm so happy right now.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then it was in March of 2018 that I was like open, and the universe dropped this fantastic opportunity in my lap out of the middle of nowhere.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's yeah.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, hey, she's talking about me.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: I know for those for those where it's not clear, that's when I met Candace.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And P.S.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Your nine-year-old daughter, when I first met you, Steve was holding her like a little nugget, and her she was so tiny, her legs stuck straight out like a little cabbage patch doll.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: That was my first time meeting her.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just just like a little lump of person.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: I know now she's told me she's a preteen.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've been informed nine is when you become a pre-teen.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, she wasn't an eight.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: No, nine to twelve is preteen.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: I had to fact check it.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, I now have a pre-teen.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so what were the things like obviously somebody else looking out for you and almost like giving you that like external kind of permission sometimes to like prioritize yourself?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: That helps.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: What were the things holding you back from just being able to say I need to do this for myself?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a huge question.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it goes to self-worth and um what we allow ourselves, what we deny ourselves, what we think we're deserving of, right?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think you and I were both raised like you gotta earn it.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta earn it.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've talked about imposter syndrome.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was so young, all of these factors, like I, and I do, I felt grateful to be there.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: I had a job.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was learning so much.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: This woman did, she fast-tracked my career.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: She was so incredible for so many reasons, and yet I was in such a dark space, I was not okay.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't have the self-confidence, the self-worth.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I didn't, I thought I deserved it.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, like, like all of the bad that came with the good, I wanted the good, and so I thought I deserved all of the bad and didn't think I deserved anything different.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have, and I'm not, I'm not trying to put this on you.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm saying like I could see this being a thought too.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have a feeling of like guilt almost?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like everybody else was fighting to get these very few jobs.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: I have this great job.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: I need to just suck it up and stick it because I feel like that's such a big thing.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're kind of sold, right?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that narrative was very much an actual narrative out of the mouth of this person I was working for.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you are so lucky, we are so lucky.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't have me, like we're we're in trouble.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, what would you say to yourself?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm saying this because somebody listening is like in this right now, and I know that because I literally have a family member who was in this a couple, like a year ago, and had to make a really hard decision.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: There was nothing anybody could say to her.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: She had to get through that herself and make that decision herself.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: But what would you say to yourself?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like going back, like we're talking like ghost of Christmas past style and giving yourself a little future jackie wisdom to your old self.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: The the wiring, the model from youth, like you're gonna work hard, you've got great worth work ethic, hang in there.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: All of that can remain in place and be true.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: And nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing in any category, in any dimension, on any level, in any time, space, continuum, nothing is worth like depleting.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going like this, because that's really like the energetic vibe of it, like taking your nervous system down to nothing.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it is the like baseline self-respect and baseline, like whatever else I'm capable of, I deserve to just treat me like I care about me.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And showing up and doing what I'm doing is is not that.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actively through my actions, I'm actively telling myself, like, I don't care about you.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Let alone I don't love you.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like, I don't give a shit about you.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here to destroy you, is the message I was giving myself.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not like, please, no, please.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Knowing that you deserve peace, knowing you deserve happiness, those are really just like powerful feelings.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when you're in the thick of it, it's actually hard to believe it, right?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing that you can be good to yourself without apologizing, you don't have to struggle through this like self-abuse to prove any point you don't deserve that.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was lucky that I had someone step in and basically that was someone that I respected very, very much.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I didn't have my own self-worth to say no, I'm done.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I respected somebody that said, you have more, you're you're worth more than this.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And not about money, but about treatment, about energetic treatment.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have to take a financial hit to make that choice for yourself?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was my only income.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I was so fortunate enough that I had people around me that could help me take that hit and step in.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I recognized that not everyone has that.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um if I didn't have support around me, I literally would have been an incomeless young person with expenses.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I would have, yeah, I would have had to scramble really quick, or maybe made a different plan with that person, like lined up alternative income before I made that jump.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was very fortunate about that.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: But the financial shift was temporary.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, these all these years later, like not the same situation that you were in when you left.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's almost like I think sometimes maybe what's stopping us is that I'm already in pain.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to add on the pain of financial stress too, because I can't even visualize the long-term goal of peace and happiness and self-care and love, and um recog like shifting that mindset to recognize like maybe a plan does need to be put in place, but it's and the reason I say this is because we we actually have a stat on that 73% of women who made a major life pivot, career change, relocation, leaving a big relationship reported higher financial confidence within two years.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, and women who take career sabbaticals return to 18% higher earnings within three years versus those who stayed in burnout roles.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it is you are making a sacrifice of potentially two to three years, you know, for a longer term game.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it's almost like I play Candyland with my kids, right?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you know how like sometimes you like, oh, you go back and you have to like go back, but then you know, you're your next card, you might get a double.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so then you then you jumped everybody on the board.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I feel like that's kind of what those things feel like sometimes when we've taken those steps back.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's always piling on, like, oh God, I I really don't know that I can take on more.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: But then next thing you know, you're you're in the exact right situation.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's um this school of thought, and it's actually like a framework.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's called spiral dynamics.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that like you can apply it back to like our cavemen days.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: This goes, it's it's oldest time.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: There it is, spiral dynamics, yeah.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the the theory is that we're always evolving, right?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like the spiral goes up, but it can look like you're moving backwards, like retrograde, right?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: It can look when you're on this part of the spiral moving this way, it can look like you're moving backwards, but you're actually still, it's like expansion and contraction.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're still moving up.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I would say to anyone listening, my I knew I was not okay, right?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it starts with being like, I'm not okay, this is not okay.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's okay to not be okay.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay, yeah, it's okay to not be okay, but like acknowledge it, like don't deny it.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't have to do anything immediately, but having that acknowledgement is empowering to say, this isn't okay, I'm not okay, I'm gonna do something so that I can get okay.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then you just start making a plan, right?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: And knowing that you deserve to be okay, period.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: In any situation.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a long answer to the most profitable investment I ever made that wasn't financial.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to hear about yours.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is such a I love this I love that you asked this question.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I was thinking too was when you so when you and I met, we were on the road all the time, and I had a small baby and I and then had a second one.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we went through so many career highs and lows together.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: So many.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um and my nervous system is not built to slay dragons, I've learned.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't love it.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's not something I actually I thought I did because I was in it for so long, you know, and I actually had no concept of not being on the road.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: I really thought that no, I'm a I'm a road dog.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I do.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a road warrior.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm out there, mom.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: Every week.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm not on a plane, I'm not working, like I'm not if I'm not productive, if I'm not doing these things, then I'm I'm not adding value.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: And when we kind of went through our different transitions with Roe, and then now with with the founder's office, I had to hold a really hard line of I'm not going on the road anymore.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: And if that means that I'm not, you know, and and nothing really changed, is I again place of a lot of fortune to say like I'm not doing that.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because a lot of people don't get to make those calls in their career to say, like, this is not, I want the job, I want to do this, I want to be part of this team, but I'm not this is my this is not something I'm willing to do.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: This is my hard no.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: This is my hard no.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: And my hard no was I'm I'm not gonna be on the road.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not going to work myself to oblivion again.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to do things that are really important to me.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um This is my hard line.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: I've I got a taste of being a homebody during COVID, like all of us did.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I it was the Katy Perry song, I kissed a girl and I liked it.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh my god, I love I love elastic waistbands and being at home and like not taking my car out of the garage for days on end.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't know that was even an option for my because my whole career had been pretty much like I was always on the go.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I remember you call, you and I had a just a chit chat a while ago, like a couple years ago.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you were like, how are you doing?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, good.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, no, how are you doing?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, tell, like, how are you really doing?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I was like, liar.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: I know, but I was like, I am so happy not playing dragons right now.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really, I didn't know I actually could have this like baseline of, and I'm don't get me wrong, I'm always moving, I'm always busy, I'm I'm always doing something, but it's on my terms right now, and it feels amazing.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it was really hard for me.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not the best at saying no, I'm not the best at having boundaries.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: It does take a lot for me to say, nope, I'm not going on that.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I will only go on a handful of work trips a year, and this doesn't meet that criteria.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I remember that conversation that we had, and I remember it because I feel like starting out, you were very careful to like say that you were happy almost because it was like admitting something dirty or wrong, or you weren't sure that it was allowed or even good, or like it would be judged or interpreted, or like judged as something bad.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're you're happy, like how you like are you not working?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but then we talked about it, and I like to I love celebrating people's happiness.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's amazing when you can be happy and openly share it, and it's not braggish to be like, I fucking love my life, yeah, and I'm so happy.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy that's what we celebrate for each other.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: It felt but it took you time to get to like, okay, okay, I I can own this and it's a good thing.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was in a transition period where I didn't have a big deal going on.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like I had some big, you know, we I was in a transition of like we we had wound down row, we weren't quite launching anything new yet.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I felt like I'm not allowed to sit here and celebrate because I'm supposed to be figuring out what I'm what's next, how I'm gonna be the next big, how I'm gonna make this next thing the greatest, you know.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I just was like, you know what I really love?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: I love that, you know, the I I love this like routine I've built.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: I love a routine.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: I just really am happy with with stability.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Who knew?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea that I loved it, I had no clue.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: And like once I got it, I was like, oh my god, I'm never letting go of this.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: This is amazing.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: I love it so much.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, it did feel like in this world of you, oh, like, what is your next big thing, and what are you working on?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: And what like, what is your next LinkedIn postworthy proclamation?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have anything and I couldn't have been happier about it.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I needed that space, I needed time to heal physically, mentally, spiritually.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: I had gone through really big surgery, I had gone through big business transitions over the course of years.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it was like the first time I was giving myself a little bit of permission just to like, it's okay.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Just take a minute, just take a step back.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: No need to climb that next rung of the ladder right this second.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: You can take a beat.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: We talk a lot about like the whole goal of this is to normalize conversations, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like women talk finance, like that's not normally it's not the normal topic of conversation for women.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: So with this, I think we've we've noticed like the societal narrative is that we applaud busyness.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: We are all about, yeah, like you said, what's the next LinkedIn post?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: What's gonna get you the likes?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing that's like the wow factor?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think we even prize martyrdom, right?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you talk with your friends, it's it's it like I am so busy.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: I am so, so, so, so, so busy.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it would be so kick-ass if we helped normalize and encouraged others to normalize.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, things are pretty chill right now.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: What are you up to?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Not much.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: I am catching up on Netflix, I am like petting my cats, I am journaling, and God, my nervous system feels calm.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I deserve that.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can have a board, investors, advisors, and still have nobody you can actually talk to about what is really going on.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: That is not unusual.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is the founder reality.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we step in right there.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Tom Powell, and at the founder's office, we're proud to sponsor Women Talk Finance.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Gardening, I told you.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like all of us, I'm really leaning into those old lady crafts.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: Gardening, crocheting.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: I need some photos.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I know I need to send you a picture of my solarium.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, little little homestead action here.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know what?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: I ate a whole salad that was from my garden.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it felt like ingredients.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Need them.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Let's have what's okay.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: I had the what were the greens?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: I had spinach, the I had Caesar lettuce, um, Octavian, tomatoes.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've got chives and green onions going.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um you have cubes.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not you have cubes or peppers.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: Not oh pepper, yeah, they're getting, they're starting.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: They're they're they're working on it.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Cream beans, they're they're working on it.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um strawberries are kind, they're getting there.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but boy, you would have thought that I had just closed some massive deal.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: The level of like joy and pride I was able to take in something like that.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to take time to recognize those things.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're right, like we feel like we can only celebrate certain things, especially financial wins.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and while it felt amazing to stick it to big salad and make my own.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um that like four dollar savings was not the financial win that I was like, wow, but I did feel great about it.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Therapy ROI.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a real thing.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Every one dollar spent on mental health treatment returns four dollars in improved health and productivity.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: I would like the the return you go on that.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: That was through the yep, WH.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Your investment in yourself, like there's no way that that four dollar salad.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the$16 salad based on that math.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna like challenge this.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna challenge the who in specific situations to give this more of like a 1,000 X.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe$4, 100 X, whatever.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't need a number, it doesn't need an actual metric.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: I would agree though, like I so I've seen my same therapist for years.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: I go every week.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: I go every week, like clockwork.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's blocked out of my calendar.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: We've it I do I do not go to anything on Tuesday afternoons because that is when I'm in therapy.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: I do not miss therapy.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm very open about it.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: I talk about it.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's not just a gift to myself, it's a gift to everyone around me.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a selfish act, it's it is, and it benefits everyone around me.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think I'm a better uh partner, a better parent, a better coworker, a better uh, you know, uh teammate.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think our clients benefit my the the way I process information.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: And there's weeks where I don't have a lot to talk about, but it's the consistency.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh girlfriend found out she loved a routine, and I really do.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that that that really helped me.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: When I started going, I was in a very unhealthy place.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: I was very underweight.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: I my nervous system was in just complete disruption.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it took about two years to kind of get just almost to like an equalized space and to get to a place of like, I feel okay being okay.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: This um talking about these investments we made, they they look different, of course, for everyone, for both of us, but ultimately I think we can see like they change the trajectory of our lives.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um in such a way where when we first even when we first met, when we first started doing the podcast, we're different people now.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, we continue to be.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you met that girl that went and worked at that law firm, you I don't think it's it's not recognizable.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: I am not the same person, period.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think too, I think to kind of even that original conversation, right?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think we think you have to constantly be making these financial jumps in your career, right?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: It only goes up.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and you only move if it's if the needle's going in the right direction.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I look at this uh person that just recently made the jump, they took about half.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: That is a substantial cut.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: It was thought through, it was planned, it still was it was very hard for them.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it took so much of that, like they had to have enough confidence in a pretty broken space to say, I can do this, and it was a pretty big pivot.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: I will tell you, externally, going back to like the benefits of self-care and and and prioritizing those things, externally, I'm watching this person, they're they're happy.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: The things I hear from them and the tone.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you when you're talking to somebody and you're like every kind of layer, there's like this undercurrent to it, their undercurrent is now lighter, which just tells you their brainwaves are so much, like they're so much happier, they're so much lighter.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: They're making half what they were making.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: They are happier, they look, they look healthier, much healthier.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: And ironically enough, in two to three years, there's actually a potential for them to grow substantially in this in this role and get back to where they were.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's that, but they're and they get this two to three years to heal themselves and just seeing it from an external perspective, having gone through it, lived through that, and knowing like that process, that yucky part, seeing it in somebody else and seeing how much they're thriving by making that choice as hard as that choice was.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, really great, actually, to see.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's close out by redefining ROI.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of return on investment, it's really like a return on your identity.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Who do you want to be as a person?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: How do you want to show up?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: How do you want to move through life?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can move through in this state of constriction with a wrecked nervous system, but what's the trade-off?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you don't have to, and you certainly don't deserve that, no matter what, period.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there's investments, small investments in yourself you can make that are non-financial.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're free.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're they're decision-based.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're setting boundaries, they're making different choices, they are free.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: And they're just investments in who you are and how you move through the world.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: Saying no is sometimes the best thing you can do.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: Saying no.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: Saying no for yourself.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I had like a little, like, you know, like a number one that you put up like a baseball game.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I just wish I had like no.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or my little champion, like no cupcake or something.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Cordially uninvite yourself.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't sound like anything I want to be a part of.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: I actually, it's funny.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: I uh we have a work trip.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have a work trip coming up in June, and I remember texting you and being like, Are you going to that?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you were so kind.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, No, I have different plans.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: But you should have been like, Don't even ask me again.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know better.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, like I'm not doing travel.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I would not be going to that.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Of course I would.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, God.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was ridiculous that I asked.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: When your nervous system's at a baseline, I didn't actually recognize how toxic some of those like those networking or like social um trips were for me.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: I did not know.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then now when I go to those, they take me weeks to weeks.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: To recover.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: To recover because I'm so out of it.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh my god, I was doing this much damage to my body, to myself for years.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: For years.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I did have to be a step back, and I did have to take a hit to do that.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm could not be happier that I did that every day.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yay.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: I celebrate you.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: I go to those events that I piece out when I feel like it to protect my own energy.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: You do.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: You're actually so good about like, all right, I'm going to my room to not talk to anybody and take a three-hour tub.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: So bye.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: Pleasantly, warmly, bye.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: My best regard.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: Warmly.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that was today's episode of WTF.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: If you laughed, learned something, or felt a little less alone, make sure you hit follow.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: And send this episode to a friend who might need it.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: Women don't gatekeep, especially not the good stuff.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: We'll be back next week with more real talk, more stories, and probably more over sharing.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time on WTF.