Latest / Ryder Lee / Occult & Esoteric Heaven | Wayne Steiger & Ryan Gable

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Occult & Esoteric Heaven | Wayne Steiger & Ryan Gable · Ryder Lee

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  Welcome back to Rais by Giants Discussion. We are live. Welcome everyone in
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  the chat. Good to see you guys and any moderators or channel members out
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  there. Today. We have a never before done combo here this evening with
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  Wayne Stager and Ryan Gable here with us today and Mando. I love doing
• 0:39
  things that's never been done before. But before I bring them on for what
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  I know is going to be an amazing conversation. A shout out to my
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  are writer arranger channel members, thank you very much. So with that down,
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  we have an amazing little panel here today with returning guests of the show
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  but have never before been together. And first up we have a philosopher,
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  researcher, educator, spiritual teacher and visionary on in esoteric studies, Wayne Steiger.
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  It's good to see you, my friend. How is it going.
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  Good to see you, my friend, writer. Good to be here,
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  and thank you for the invite. Yes, I'm very much looking forward to
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  the discussion here today. I'm a little under the weather, but we're gonna
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  make it through here. Next up is author and producer of the show The
• 2:23
  Secret Teachings and my good friend Ryan Gable. Welcome back to the show,
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  my friend. How's it going. It's going good, Writer, thanks for
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  having me on the show. Yes, and so the other day, gentleman,
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  we're just going to jump right into it. I was pondering on this
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  concept and this idea of heaven, and to any analytical person you know,
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  would do I thought to myself, where did this concept of heaven come from?
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  Because it's always heavily referenced in Christianity, and I'm pretty su sure that's
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  where everyone has heard of this concept of heaven from. But I knew that
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  the oldest religion in the world is Hinduism, which dates back over five thousand
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  years, and that Hindus believe in reincarnation and reincarnation based off of karma,
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  so it couldn't have come from Hinduism. So the question that I guess that
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  I opposed to both of you is did this concept of in afterlife or the
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  concept of heaven come from Christianity or is there an older religion or an older
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  teaching that dates back further than Christianity have this concept of in afterlife? And
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  Wayne, if you want to start, yeah, I think it's solely a
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  Christian theology. You know, prior to that, if you look at the
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  Egyptians, they had their belief of a afterlife and the underworld. But the
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  idea of heaven itself is a Christian concept because that's your reward or going to
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  heaven. Are you're going to have eternal peace and whatever that is. Although
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  I do find it interesting the Bible really doesn't talk a lot about heaven.
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  Paul wrote about it, but in the Old Testament, the Hebrews did not
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  believe in a heaven right. And it's interesting too because the Old Testament doesn't
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  really even reference a or a house. So if they didn't believe in heaven
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  or how then what exactly do they believe in? Ryan? What do you
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  well? I agree with Wayne. First of all, I think it's primarily
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  a Christian concept. But when I say it is a Christian concept, I
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  think the question is what is it? Because everybody has their own interpretation of
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  what heaven is, you know. And Waine's also right that you have the
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  concept of the underworld, and you find that in Egypt famously, but you
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  also find that in meso America, Zibalba, you find that in Japan.
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  I like to talk about the East because that's not very well known about in
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  the West. The land of Yomi in Japan was the land of the underworld,
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  and very I had very similar stories to the Egyptians and to the meso
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  Americans as well. So from meso America all the way to the Land of
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  the Rising Sun. You have this underworld concept, which I suppose you could,
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  depending on how you interpret it, interpret it as both a heaven or
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  a hell like state, because you went through the underworld in order to either
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  be reborn as a star or to transcend and maybe to be reborn again into
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  a physical body, which was a was a. I think that was an
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  original tenet of Christianity, was reincarnation. So I agree with Wayne in those
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  ways, and just to expand a little bit, that's that's my thoughts.
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  But I do want to add one more thing that in the Hindu belief system,
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  there's a place or I guess a state of being called and I don't
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  speak Sanskrit, but it's something to the pronunciation of zivarga zivarga s v A
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  r g a, and that's like the seventh heaven or they called the Lopez,
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  which is like a plane or a state of being, which is also
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  similar in the in the Kabbala with Kether the crown, and it's also something
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  that you find with the seven classical planets, and you find that with the
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  seven what they call the seven Garments of Ishtar, and also the seven garments
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  of isanagi in Japan. So these are concepts that are universal, and those
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  I guess those are my opening thoughts on your question. Isn't there a trinity
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  of the Kabbala that has Kathar in A, the Cathar, Chokma and Bana.
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  Isn't that the trinity of the Kabbala? Oh? Yes, yes,
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  for a second, I thought you were saying something else. I believe off
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  the top of my head, I think, and that's the same with uh
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  Barahma. And yeah, yeah, so that's the Shiva. In Shiva the
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  destroyer, but the destroyer is also the allows for new things to be born
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  in birth, so it's like a cyclical necessary evil. But yeah, that's
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  in Hinduism, it's all over the world, it's in us, like you
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  know, birth, life and death, et cetera. Yeah, it's really
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  interesting in this this concept of heaven and hell in the Old Testament. Nowhere
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  in the Old Testament doesn't say that when you die you go to heaven or
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  hell. So if there wasn't a concept of heaven and how for the Old
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  Testament people, then that means that heaven and hell is a relatively new concept.
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  Would you agree with that? Wien. Yeah, it's kind of like
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  the do you have a soul or do you have a spirit? Do you
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  have a spirit and a soul? And when I think of heaven, of
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  course, in Bible School, you know, we were Paul wrote about it.
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  He said there were seven levels of heaven marrying much around the world,
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  Ryan, as you were pointing out. And the thing that I think about
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  heaven is, well, what is the purpose of heaven? I mean,
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  what does it? Sir? Hell is the concept that we had from Dante,
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  and the Church grabbed a hold of that because that was the perfect control
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  that they needed to keep basically the peasants in line. Yeah. Hodgemunch says
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  here that no hell mentioned in the Old Testament. Well, I mean it's
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  kind of referred to what is that word? There's she all? Yeah,
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  it's like referred to as the pit. I believe so kind of yes,
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  depending on it was the twelfth gate in the city of Jerusalem was the pit
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  Guyana, and it's where they took all the refuge of the city and that's
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  where it was burnt, and it burned all the time. Do you know
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  what side of the city that was on was that west? I believe it
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  was the land of death where Ro's sunbat would crash each night. Mm hmm.
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  Yeah. I think every culture has that too. I think, I
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  mean from the Egyptians famously, they have the land in the West, but
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  I was even I think it's in Japan too. Japan has this legend about
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  a mystical island that in the Tibetan Book and the Dead as well. Oh
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  it is. I didn't know that. Yes, it's it's always in the
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  west, but that's because that's where the sun dies each night and becomes the
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  black Sun, you know. I think that the question that you're asking writer
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  can be looked at from more of a psychological point of view, and based
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  on what Wayne is saying, I think we should expand on Dante's version of
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  Hell because Dante's version of Hell is quite contradictory to the Church's version of Hell.
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  Dante's depiction and you could look this up if you wanted to show an
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  image of it, look up ice Palace Hell. Dante. Dante described,
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  and I think it was thirty three or thirty four of his story, that
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  Hell is actually an ice palace and that the devil or this devilish character is
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  actually physically encased in ice. So I've always looked at Hell as being sort
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  of like and I wrote this in my Occult book. I've always looked at
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  Hell as being kind of a place where it's a state of mind, like
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  when you're betrayed or when you don't feel loved, you feel really cold,
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  you feel really alone, you feel really cold. But when you feel loved,
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  when you feel appreciated, you feel really warm, you can feel the
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  light. That's kind of how heaven would be described. And then likewise,
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  purgatory is the state between those two states of awareness where you're really uncertain whether
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  maybe you're in a situation where you haven't made up your mind about something.
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  You're kind of in a state between feeling warm and filling cold. That would
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  be another, I think interpretation of it. Yeah, they're the one in
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  the middle there that you had that was the ice palace of Hell. Yeah,
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  it's interesting that you bring up this, this purgatory idea, because from
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  my understanding, that is what the Old Testament people believed happened when you died.
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  They believed in purgatory with aud it Abraham's side or Abraham's bosom, which
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  is referenced in Luke sixteen twenty two. I believe and God. Now,
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  I was going to say, if you look in what is it in the
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  Book of Samuel Saul King Saul when he called upon the Witch of Endoor,
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  and it's one of the few references in the Old Testament that we know that
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  there is this afterlife. It also shows that this witch had the ability to
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  communicate to the dead. And what the ancient prophet told Saul was that why
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  did you disturb me? And apparently it's a very grayish place. It's apparently
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  a place where the spirits or the soul's rest. So it's very interesting when
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  you take that concept and you try to play it into the heaven and hal
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  role, it doesn't jib. Yeah. In purgatory, the original word is
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  Latin pergatorious, and it means the translation in Latin is horrifying. So when
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  you apply the idea of purgatory to the Gates of Ishtar, or the Descent
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  of Enon, or the story of Isanagi going into the underworld to rescue his
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  wife is a nami in Japan. When he comes out of the underworld unclean,
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  he goes to a river and he strips off all of his garments and
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  purifies himself in the river, and when he does that, he then gives
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  birth to the Sun goddess am A Tanasu. So from the underworld or what
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  we might call hell, to the purifying of the river and losing the garments,
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  which is just like Ishtarananana to the birth of the Sun goddess. You
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  have this transition hell, purgatory heaven in a sense in that old Japanese story,
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  and that's essentially what purgatory is. It's the purifying of the soul.
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  I believe it was meister Eckhart, that German mystic, who said that if
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  we learn to we learned to understand that this is a paraphrase, we learn
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  to understand that angels and demons kind of play the same part. That demons
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  feed off of the negative things that we feel and the wightfull emotions like in
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  the Hall of Judgment in Egypt that would be consumed by the great beast.
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  So those demons actually feed off those things, and they're doing the work of
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  the angels, if you will, because in order to reunite or to as
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  sind if you will, that's a really bad word to use nowadays, but
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  to ascend through the spheres of consciousness. One has to be purified, which
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  is what purgatory is. It's the state between in a sense, between life
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  and eternal life in the spirit realm. Does that make sense? It does.
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  And I want to bring up this verse really quickly because I think that
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  it is very important, which is Luke sixteen twenty two. And here it
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  is. It says the poor man died and was carried by the angels to
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  Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried and in hades,
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  being in torment, and lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and
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  Lazarus in his bosom. And this verse is very interesting because it's where the
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  whole idea and the whole thought of what hell is really comes from. And
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  how many times have we heard people talk about, oh, well, when
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  you go to hell, you'll be able to see God but not be able
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  to do anything about it. That comes from this verse. And what I
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  find interesting on this verse is that, hey, if you really study the
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  scriptures, is that it's mixing two different theologies here. It's robbing from the
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  Hebrew culture, because I contend Christianity has no God. You can't tell me
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  who the Christian God is. But in here Jesus would have never said this.
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  Jesus was a rabbi, he would not have had the concept of a
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  hell. He would have understood Abraham. And you know, the story goes
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  on that there's this great chasm between Abraham and the rich man. Las or
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  something is the other story. So it's very interesting how the mind trap starts
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  right here. From the get go two different theologies, one that was old,
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  one was being invented. It's also interesting here the distinction between the poor
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  man and the rich man. It's almost like, if you're poor, then
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  you're going to be saved. If you're rich, you're going to torment.
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  You know what I think you can relate that to what Luke or whoever wrote
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  this book is saying, is they're basically describing in different terms the Egyptian Hall
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  of judgment. In the Hall of judgment, you had the heart and you
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  have the feather that were weighed. The feather was the soul. The heart
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  was the physical aspects of life. And if your heart was heavy or weightful
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  with sin or with regret or with desire, the beast would eat it and
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  you were not able to go into the next stage of the after life,
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  so that that would be a man who is poor in a sense, and
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  the man who is rich has no physical possessions, but is rich in spirit.
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  The feather therefore is more weightful than the heart, and then you're able
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  to transcend. I think that's what that's saying. I think so too.
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  But it's just interesting in the words that they use to describe it. I
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  think it's definitely a metaphor, but it's just interesting the poor, the poor
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  and the rich, because it's something that's been you know, propagated through Christianity
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  that if you have a lot of possessions, and you know, God isn't
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  really favoring you if you if you have a lot of things, if you
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  have a lot of material possessions, and that's of the devil, right.
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  It's almost it's almost Buddhist in a way. And I think that people have
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  also politicized that because a lot of people take the Bible and say that,
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  because they say the Book of Luke says something to that effect. They believe
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  it's like an anti capitalist message, which is in the same way that you
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  can interpret the Bible and you can interpret you know, you can interpret a
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  simple verse like that to mean some political thing. You could interpret it to
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  mean that I have to be poor in order to go to heaven. You
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  can interpret it as as I do. I interpret it as being part of
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  the ancient mystery tradition. But the Egyptians taught in the Underworld story. You
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  can interpret it and quite a few different ways. I don't think it's literal,
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  to put it bluntly, I don't think it's literal. You know what's
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  really interesting to this discussion is that I go back to the very beginning.
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  So what came first? Was it the creation of this heaven hell? Death?
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  Or was it live? Because if you have the construct that there was
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  a heaven in Hell, who populated it? How did it start? How
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  did it begin? And if you look at the whole concept of Hell of
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  Satan Lucifer, then Hell has to be run by a woman, because a
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  woman would be the direct antithesis of the Hebrew god Yahweh, the Eloween.
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  So the whole concept of Hell, when you begin to examine it, begins
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  to crumble very quickly because what it's saying is that Hell is run by women,
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  and because they would be the only ones that would accept God's rejects,
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  and the mother of all demons is a well in the Jewish vision, is
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  Lilith or Lam Yeah, yeah, so she was the mother of all demons.
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  You know, she just didn't fit into the Catholic narrative. But I
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  think in the very beginning, when they were still trying to figure out who
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  the God of Christianity is, you know, I think in one of the
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  versions it may have been a woman, but it still gets back to the
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  whole idea. So what was the purpose of this creation? And if man
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  came in after the scene, then it's a setup. It's a complete setup.
• 20:07
  You know that if you take the idea of the queen of the queen
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  of the underworld, which is something that you find in Greece very famously with
• 20:17
  Persephone or Proserpina in Rome, and that's a concept you also find again in
• 20:22
  mess America, you find in Japan with Isanami, the queen of the underworld,
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  or the Scandinavians actually called her. Funny enough, the Scandinavian name for
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  the underworld goddess was hell h e l translated to how we would pronounce it
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  today. Hell. So the goddess or the queen of the underworld. That
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  was always a queen, it was always a woman, And usually that story
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  is meant to be interpreted as an allegory and a metaphor for nature. So
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  I'm sure that you guys both know this. But like Persephone is probably the
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  most famous story. When she goes into the underworld, she's this young,
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  beautiful woman, so she represents spring in summertime. She's defiled by the fall,
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  which is represented by Hades, who rides the black Horse that is the
• 21:08
  horse of the end of the year, the coming of the lifting of the
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  veil, the apocalypse, the unveiling, and then the Pale Horse, which
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  is the death of winter. So you have this beautiful young woman of spring
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  and summer. She's kidnapped and raped and abused by Hades with the black horse,
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  who actually carries scales in some of the stories, and he takes her
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  to the underworld. And when she goes to the underworld, Earth essentially dies.
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  And because Demeter, her mother, is very saddened that her daughter has
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  been kidnapped and raped and abused, so she lets the crops die. And
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  Zeus gets upset in the story because all mankind is going to die without food,
• 21:47
  without light, so eventually Zeus convinces her to and convinces Hades to allow
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  Persephone to go. The story goes that she eats food in the underworld,
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  which you see that movie Man's Labyrinth when Ophelia's turned out to eat the food
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  and the pale Man's layer. That's purely Greek and Roman and other mythologies.
• 22:07
  So she eats a pomegranate seed, which often is also correlated to the apple
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  and the garden of Eden. And when she eats the pomegranate seed, I
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  think she eats a third or something like that of the pomegranate. So she
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  has to stay in the underworld that portion of the year. So she has
• 22:23
  to stay there roughly through the fall in the winter, and then when she
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  comes back to life in the spring, everything blooms again because her beauty comes
• 22:30
  back to the world. So although she is essentially the queen of the underworld,
• 22:36
  she's also the queen of regeneration and rebirth, which is something we find
• 22:41
  in Egypt, where Queen Isis has both white veils of purity where we get
• 22:47
  the wedding veil from in part, and also black veils of mourning where we
• 22:51
  get the story of the cinders on her face. The Cinderella story, she's
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  searching for her prince Charming. So she's both a white and black goddess or
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  queen in the same way that I think it's the Zohar. You have the
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  black and white god, and there's an agricultural aspected element to all of this
• 23:07
  that's very important, I think to the discussion of heaven and hell. It
• 23:12
  odd that the pomegranate had also adorned the doors to the Holy of the Holies,
• 23:18
  the temple. Mm hmm, well my still on, Yeah, okay,
• 23:27
  I'm good. It's interesting when we talk about, you know, these
• 23:32
  people going into hell because you know who else descended into hell. Jesus Christ
• 23:41
  whenever he died, he descended into hell for three days and then resurrected and
• 23:51
  then ascended into heaven. Which people really leave that part of the story out
• 23:56
  for some reason. Wait a minute. He was crucified on a Friday and
• 24:00
  raised on a Sunday morning. That ain't three days. I'm just I'm just
• 24:07
  telling what the book said. I mean, you know, there ain't no
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  three days there. Well, it was on maybe on the Thursday, Fridays,
• 24:14
  the day Saturdays, on the third day I guess it can't be no
• 24:18
  good Maybe good Thursday. I don't know, but they didn't sell enough fish,
• 24:22
  so I mean, maybe that's why. I don't know. I've actually
• 24:25
  heard some scholars suggest that that a lot of the stuff in the Bible fish
• 24:29
  and wine is really just a bunch of marketing. Well, what was it,
• 24:33
  Pope? Was it? Was it Pope Pious the Third who said,
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  Oh, how we've deceived the people in this this belief of Jesus that never
• 24:41
  you know existed. So and today it's odd because it influences all of our
• 24:48
  culture. We're talking about heaven and Hell. It's the great fear. Hollywood
• 24:52
  has made billions on, you know, personifying this place called Hell. Yes,
• 24:57
  as a philosopher, I look at Hell is probably the place where i'd
• 25:02
  want to be, because I'd be very uncomfortable in heaven because I'm the problem
• 25:06
  child. I'm the person that when you see me, I'm someone said the
• 25:11
  great question mark, you know, I guess, yeah, I'm trying to
• 25:19
  look for this verse really quickly. I think it's Ephesians four nine that says
• 25:26
  Jesus descended into the lower parts of the earth. Well, I mean the
• 25:33
  whole Jesus story. A lot of people say, well, it's just sun
• 25:37
  worship. Well, in a sense, it is, but it's a little
• 25:40
  more complex than that. It's really kind of a mixture of both agricultural analogies,
• 25:45
  metaphors, and allegories, Like there's a whole bunch of stuff that gets
• 25:49
  put into the story that becomes the Jesus descending into the hell story or the
• 25:56
  verse that you're looking for. In the same way that when Jesus transcends and
• 25:59
  goes up into Heaven, that is a story that's also told all throughout the
• 26:02
  world in various different forms. So really, the Jesus story isn't simplified in
• 26:07
  my view as just oh, it's just sun worship. Now, it's far
• 26:11
  more than that. It's basically a mixture of what it seems like virtually every
• 26:17
  major culture on this planet. It's putting all this together. And I think
• 26:22
  that the Church, and I think most people understand this and know this already,
• 26:25
  that the Church was trying to take these ancient cult beliefs and basically make
• 26:30
  it easier for the people to accept this new state sponsored religion by bringing those
• 26:37
  people that already have these beliefs into the Christian narrative because it was so similar
• 26:41
  to what they already believed, they just created a new version of it.
• 26:45
  Whether that's the point out that when Christianity came about, and I always figure
• 26:51
  about three seventy five four five it was organized, that was also the beginning
• 26:56
  of the Dark Ages, and ever since this religion has populated through the world,
• 27:02
  it has brought the Dark Ages with it. I mean, the Batylonian
• 27:07
  Tulmult says that the Goam are the slaves of the Jews, and that Christianity
• 27:14
  is the curse of the Jews upon the Goum, because the Hebrew God will
• 27:18
  never allow a gentile in his presence right the story, I mean, that's
• 27:26
  what it says. And so you've got this false narrative where today in the
• 27:30
  Western world we're convinced that this story actually is true, but actually we all
• 27:37
  know deep down that it most likely is not so anyway, Which of course
• 27:41
  doesn't mean that many of the motifs and the principles and whatnot that you find
• 27:45
  in Christianity aren't things that you should abide by or better ways to live your
• 27:51
  life. Like Christian principles, it's probably a pretty good way to live objectively
• 27:56
  speaking, But that doesn't mean that Wane's not right, which I agree with
• 28:00
  him that it's and I think I mean the Muslims in the Jews, that's
• 28:03
  one thing they agree on, that Jesus was not the son of God.
• 28:07
  That was a blasphemous thing to tell me that space. If you read the
• 28:11
  talent, it says, I'm sure Wayne knows this. It says that anybody
• 28:14
  who well, they refer to anybody who distresses Israel as being the chief,
• 28:19
  which is a word that was used to describe basically detractors of the Rabbis and
• 28:26
  detractors of the of the I guess the elites in the rabbinical class. And
• 28:33
  they said that anybody who does that, which included Jesus, who they said
• 28:36
  was a wicked sorcerer from who learned magic in Egypt, who claimed blasphemously to
• 28:41
  be the son of God, that he would burn eternally an excrement. I
• 28:45
  think it's like track fifty seven A or fifty seven B of the tal Me.
• 28:48
  Actually, people say that doesn't say that. No, it does say
• 28:52
  that. You can just look up. I just taught on this a couple
• 28:56
  of weeks ago. So it's very Rabbi Fuchs when I was looking to convert
• 29:00
  to Judaism after our third meeting, he just looked at me and he says,
• 29:06
  do the Jews a favor. Don't convert because their opinion of the Twelve
• 29:11
  Apostles that they were the twelve devils, the twelve rebels that destroyed Jerusalem.
• 29:18
  And that's how the Jewish people view Christianity. It was those twelve so called
• 29:22
  Apostles that were the ones then the blame for bringing down their their whole society.
• 29:30
  Yeah, I think it's just a couple tracts or versus. After the
• 29:33
  THECES comment, where is this guy named Akellos? I don't know how to
• 29:38
  pronounce the name? You know that? Is it on Kelos? You know
• 29:41
  that name? You're close guy, I have no on Kellos something like that.
• 29:45
  I'd be speaking in tongues, you know, That's what it feels like.
• 29:49
  So he wants to convert to Judaism, and he goes to some of
• 29:53
  the higher ups and asks and they and he basically the story goes, he
• 29:57
  goes and actually reforms necromancy. It literally literally says this in the teal mute.
• 30:06
  He performs necromancy to resurrect Jesus from hell or from the dead, and
• 30:11
  then he asks Jesus, what do you make of these Jews, Like that's
• 30:15
  what he's asking. And Jesus says, well, he said you should not
• 30:18
  seek their misfortune, but you should seek their guidance and protection like you.
• 30:22
  Basically you should convert to Judaism, I think is essentially what Jesus tells him.
• 30:27
  And the guy says, okay, well what if I don't, what
• 30:30
  if I choose to go my own way? And he says, well,
• 30:32
  then you will be punished the way that I was punished. And he says,
• 30:34
  well, how was how were you punished? And he says, you
• 30:37
  will burn eternally in boiling excrement if you do something that the Jews don't like.
• 30:44
  So I find it really ironic. And I know that's one section of
• 30:47
  the Talmut. It's very large, and you can take things out of context.
• 30:49
  But and the same with the Bible or the Koran. But you know,
• 30:52
  Christians and Muslims believe a lot of the same things, and yet the
• 30:56
  media and our society have them neck to necking each other's heads off all the
• 31:00
  time. And there's extremist groups of course, in both, but for the
• 31:04
  Christians to be so held bent no pun intended on supporting the Jews and supporting
• 31:11
  Israel, when the Jews on average don't really support Christians and actually see the
• 31:15
  Christians as blasphemos themselves and say, actually, all the in the tell me
• 31:19
  this says, all the followers of Jesus will be punished in that way.
• 31:23
  It's weird because the Muslims believe virtually what the Christians believe, with the exception
• 31:29
  that Jesus is the son of God. I've always said Christians have far more
• 31:32
  in common with Muhammad and Allah and Muslims than they do with the Jews.
• 31:36
  I'd agree with that. Doctor Charles, in his book of Historical Jesus,
• 31:40
  pointed out that he felt that it was the Vatican in eight eight hundred right
• 31:47
  around there that they were the ones that also helped start the Islamic religion.
• 31:55
  Interesting I ever heard that. I'll check and after the show, I'll send
• 31:59
  you the book. And the reference of it was that what because it allowed
• 32:04
  Rome to have the perfect corner on the market. Rome took the umbrella of
• 32:09
  the Abrahamic Covenant as its own, so basically like almost like offering like a
• 32:16
  one company that makes two or three different products, but they own them all.
• 32:20
  It's SELFI national we serve everybody. Y Coca pepsi is basically what it
• 32:28
  is. Here's this verse, this verse right here Ephesians for nine through ten.
• 32:36
  Now that he ascended, but what is it but that he also descended
• 32:40
  into the lower parts of the earth. He then is the seam as the
• 32:45
  one that uscended up far above the all heavens, that he might find or
• 32:52
  that he might fill all things. So, and I think that this is
• 32:58
  what the the Old Testament people kind of believed that whenever Jesus was crucified and
• 33:07
  died, then he freed the souls from hell. That's why you went to
• 33:13
  He descended into hell, and then that made it to where people can enter
• 33:17
  into haven. I think what Jesus in my view, I think Jesus quote
• 33:28
  unquote whatever you define that name, because it's a title and it's more,
• 33:32
  it's not There was no Jesus in the Hebrew or even in the Greek.
• 33:37
  It was more like Jesus. It was more like Zeus and translated from Hebrew
• 33:42
  to yeah, Jeseus right from Hebrew to Greek. So there was no Jesus,
• 33:49
  but there might have been many people that played a part like Jesus.
• 33:52
  In fact, there certainly were because the Romans actually, well they usually did.
• 33:57
  From what I understand, the Romans didn't crucify people usually for religious crimes.
• 34:01
  They did for other crimes, so it was kind of uncommon. I
• 34:05
  don't know how true that is. I didn't live in ancient Rome, so
• 34:07
  I don't know, but from what I understand, they didn't really usually crucifiable
• 34:12
  for religious crimes, but there were people that certainly committed religious crimes. Whoever
• 34:16
  this Jesus character was, or many Jesus characters, because there are probably many
• 34:22
  of them that whatever they had done, they certainly had angered the Roman establishment,
• 34:27
  the Roman authority. They could have been more like political activists. I
• 34:30
  mean, if you were teaching that Rome wasn't the main authority in the land,
• 34:37
  I mean, that's enough to get you killed. Probably It's same as
• 34:39
  it would be today if you were in China or North Korea. It's a
• 34:43
  very similar kind of a thing. So I do I think what Jesus was
• 34:46
  teaching, in my view, or at least conceptually, what we can kind
• 34:50
  of pull out of the Jesus story is he's teaching the mystery religions, because
• 34:54
  when he raises Lazarus from the dead, that's the same story that we read
• 34:59
  about the Egyptian temples and pyramids. It's raising someone physically from the dead,
• 35:05
  but they're not physically dead. They call it living resurrection. And so Jesus
• 35:08
  is showing you to go to Hell and to come back. It's really in
• 35:13
  psychological terms, or even in literature terms, it's kind of like the poems
• 35:17
  and the stories. I think they were like sixteenth century. I forget who
• 35:21
  wrote them and came up with the idea of the dark Knight of the soul.
• 35:23
  You go into yourself, and that's I think what the Jesus story is
• 35:27
  all about, going into Hell, going into yourself, dealing with your demons,
• 35:31
  killing the dragon, slaughtering the beast, the animal sacrifice, and then
• 35:37
  transcending out of that and recognizing you're part of a much larger whole ide heaven.
• 35:40
  And I think that's what the Jesus story is actually saying. And then
• 35:45
  you have to weigh that with history. I mean, when I finally realized
• 35:50
  that the Jesus story was just that it's a story, because history shows when
• 35:57
  the real character in the New Testament, and the first four gospels are actually
• 36:01
  the exploits of Vespasian. Now Vespasian was real, we know what he looks
• 36:07
  like. We have a bust of them. And where the crucifixion story came
• 36:12
  from was because of his son Titus, when he basically held siege to Jerusalem
• 36:19
  and allowed the Jews for the first time within years to come in worship on
• 36:23
  the high Holy days, and then Titus sealed them in and basically it was
• 36:30
  two million people that were slaughtered. That was the fall of Jerusalem. And
• 36:35
  it was right after that that Titus went into the temple and took out the
• 36:39
  holy relics of the Hebrew worship. The three people that Titus did in fact
• 36:45
  crucify on the hill, that story is actually true. But they were as
• 36:50
  you pointed out, and they were actually rebels. They were the ones that
• 36:54
  actually broke the law according to Roman law. But we don't hear that in
• 37:00
  the New Testament. You don't hear the story of Titus. And again,
• 37:06
  the idea that we read these gospels, the lunacy of this is is that
• 37:10
  you really think a human being could sit down twenty years later and write a
• 37:15
  story per batum. I mean, we know that's impossible unless it was channeling.
• 37:23
  Now maybe he was in fact channeling something. But that's the problem that
• 37:28
  I see that we face here in the West. We're still hung by this
• 37:31
  god spell that still hangs over our whole culture, particularly now that it's spread
• 37:37
  worldwide. But that's just my opinion. A couple interesting things to what you
• 37:43
  said. First of all, a lot of the way that we interpret heaven,
• 37:46
  hell, purgatory, God, the devil and all that is cultural.
• 37:52
  So like, for example, in Japan, although a lot of Japanese now
• 37:55
  have transitioned to become Christian because I think they love Western ideas, blue genes
• 38:01
  and rock music, rockkup music and all that, they also like Christianity.
• 38:06
  But in traditional Japanese belief, which is mostly from Taoism, Confucianism, and
• 38:14
  Hinduism originally Buddhism and Hinduism at its core, they practice what you might know
• 38:20
  I practice as Shintoism, and Shintoism is totally different than any other thing I've
• 38:24
  ever read in my life about religion or any kind of theology. They actually
• 38:29
  see life not to be suffering. They see life as a positive, wonderful
• 38:32
  thing, and that the only time life becomes uncomfortable and painful is when you
• 38:38
  fail to fulfill your duties, honor your ancestors, do what you need to
• 38:43
  do for your community. So and that really speaks to the cultural essence of
• 38:47
  what the Japanese are. I'm not saying all Japanese, but traditionally so in
• 38:52
  the West, we usually see the world in a totally different way, just
• 38:57
  like other Eastern countries do. It's not right or wrong, but the culture
• 39:00
  that we live in, is my point, can radically transform our perceptions of
• 39:06
  what's the meaning of life, what's the point of of living and dying,
• 39:10
  what happens after we die, just from a cultural standpoint, just from a
• 39:15
  cultural point of view, that can that can drastically change the way that we
• 39:19
  look at the world. And then when you try like the Romans, clearly
• 39:22
  that when you try to create something like I had a thought that came to
• 39:29
  my head a moment ago when Wayne was talking. I was think, I
• 39:31
  don't know how again, I don't know how true this is. I didn't
• 39:34
  live in ancient Rome, but from what I've read, I understand that the
• 39:37
  Romans, depending on the time period, because Rome was vast in terms of
• 39:40
  how much power and how well they had power for the Romans, like at
• 39:45
  certain points didn't actually prosecute people for religious crimes, and the scene. You
• 39:51
  really it's kind of like Siria. Today. I met some people from Syria.
• 39:52
  They said, actually, if you're a if you're in Syria, a
• 39:55
  lot of places in Syria, you can be a Jew, you can be
• 39:58
  a Christian, you can be a Muslim. There's no contrary to or our
• 40:00
  media says. I was told that by multiple people from Syria. It's kind
• 40:05
  of the impression I got of like ancient Roman at certain points, the Romans
• 40:07
  are actually very accepting. In fact, Manly Hall, my favorite author all
• 40:12
  time, he said he said that it was the Christians that originally burned Rome
• 40:15
  and that the Romans finally had enough of Christianity, but enough people in power
• 40:20
  thought hey, this is a really good cult. We could use this,
• 40:23
  and so they adopted it. But that the Romans originally they were like this
• 40:28
  is Christians are fine, you can be here. It was the Christians that
• 40:30
  pushed which it's really bad if you pushed the Romans to do that. The
• 40:35
  Romans were like, these people are insane. So but we could use them.
• 40:38
  It's kind of the idea that Manly Hall played with. He wrote a
• 40:40
  book called How to Understand Your Bible, which is really good, and he
• 40:45
  talks about that in that book. He pointed out as well as that isn't
• 40:49
  it odd? The one Roman who basically invented and wrote Christianity New Testament theology
• 40:57
  was Paul. Paul's family supplied the Roman legions with tents and other utensils,
• 41:05
  made them what would be comparative today to billionaires. The story of Paul being
• 41:10
  beheaded in Rome is actually false because there is, in fact the twenty ninth
• 41:15
  chapter of the Book of Acts where Paul went and settled up in Germany,
• 41:21
  and in fact, in the twenty ninth chapter of the Book of Acts it
• 41:23
  says that he actually killed Pilot. So it's very interesting when you start dissecting
• 41:30
  all this to see how it completely as you said, right, it fashions
• 41:36
  our culture, our society, our laws, our governments. Another example of
• 41:42
  that would be if you looked at like the Scandinavian countries, they're depictions of
• 41:46
  Hell and their depictions of the end of the world. You know, these
• 41:51
  are places that are famously like the Vikings came to places that are famously like
• 41:55
  cold and hellish, like unlike you know where I'm from, Florida. You
• 42:00
  know, we if these ideas develop today, you know, my idea of
• 42:04
  heaven or hell might be different coming from Saint Pete Beach, Florida than someone
• 42:07
  who lives up in like Manitoba, Canada, you know, because of the
• 42:12
  just the climate alone can change our views on heaven and hell, can change
• 42:15
  our views on what it means to live and to die. I think that's
• 42:21
  a really important ask, just to kind of play on the question that you
• 42:23
  asked at the beginning of the show, writer, I think, you know,
• 42:27
  the way that we grow up, the climate a lot of our culture
• 42:30
  that can certainly determine how we we view the world and our experiences, you
• 42:37
  know, our experiences of life dictate, you know, what we believe in,
• 42:40
  how we fashion our own thoughts and our ideas and our beliefs. Now,
• 42:45
  as I mentioned in the very beginning of the show, how Hinduism is
• 42:52
  one of the oldest, well is the oldest religion in the world, dating
• 42:57
  back over five thousand years, and they believed in reincarnation. Now, when
• 43:04
  I'm thinking of reincarnation, I'm like, well, if reincarnation is real and
• 43:14
  we get brought back onto the Earth, but just in a different body,
• 43:20
  what would be the reason for that? And when you deduct, oh,
• 43:24
  well, if that's the case and that's really what's happening, does that mean
• 43:30
  that there's not any other place else to go? Right? Well, I
• 43:35
  mean, why would we need to be constantly continuously recycled back here? To
• 43:40
  me, that would indicate that there's no other place else to go, that
• 43:45
  this is the only place for us to go. If indeed reincarnation is a
• 43:51
  you know, let's rider, can we expand on that? Because if reincarnation
• 43:54
  is for our corporeal bodies, spirits, whatever you want to call it,
• 44:00
  then what about the planets. Earth is a living entity, It's a living
• 44:06
  planet. If it wasn't alive, we wouldn't be alive. Earth will eventually
• 44:10
  cease to exist, something will happen to either our Sun will go super nova,
• 44:15
  but Earth will eventually, some point in the future be destroyed. So
• 44:20
  how does the reincarnation story go then? Is Earth reincarnated? Does Earth come
• 44:27
  back into the ethereal realm and reincarnate as another planet, or does it become
• 44:31
  a sun you know, my mind and my meditation. I think about these
• 44:37
  things and you begin to extraculate it, and you're going, but wait a
• 44:40
  minute, reincarnation is finite. That's a good point. It is finite.
• 44:49
  I honestly don't have much of an interpretation or perception of reincarnation. Writer to
• 44:54
  your question, I do know that it's one of its probably I would say
• 44:58
  it's probably one of the oldest docs. It is part of the Christian doctrine
• 45:01
  originally, And of course it also depends on how you define reincarnation. So
• 45:07
  I suppose my interpretation would be, if I had to give you one is
• 45:10
  that we assume reincarnation means you come back into this world. But perhaps like
• 45:16
  in meso America and in Africa, the idea was you like pharaohs would be
• 45:22
  reincarnated but as stars. But that doesn't mean that they were like physically they
• 45:29
  physically became a star, or like the baby son from the Teletuppies, like
• 45:32
  it became alive. If it means you transcended to the stars, you transcended
• 45:40
  the heaven, like you reincarnated as something else, or you became associated with
• 45:45
  this with a star or something to that effect. So reincarnation. We assume
• 45:50
  it means bodies, but it might not mean physical human bodies or animal bodies
• 45:55
  or insect bodies. It might mean a consciousness that is that perhaps elsewhere I
• 46:01
  guess, rebirthed in the cosmos somewhere. That could be as a star,
• 46:06
  that could be as another planet. Like I'm not saying literally you become a
• 46:10
  planet or a star. I'm saying that the idea in Egypt was that the
• 46:14
  pharaohs would go to become stars. That's how they were reincarnated. So reincarnation
• 46:19
  might not be that we just come into a physical body again and when we
• 46:22
  die and see the light, that's us being born. I gin it's a
• 46:24
  very new age concept, so it's like we're star seeds, you know.
• 46:30
  I think that there's another way to interpret and define reincarnation again, as the
• 46:35
  Egyptians and as the Meso Americans did, that you were reincarnated as part of
• 46:38
  the cosmos view or actually, you know what that idea might be similar to
• 46:44
  that the mainline physics view of energy, right, like energy can't be destroyed,
• 46:47
  it can only be transferred themodynamics. Yes, it's in fact, I
• 46:52
  think modern physics there's actually a good book written on this about how modern physics
• 46:57
  mirrors a large amount of what we find an Eastern philosophy and the just tradition.
• 47:02
  I think that might be what reincarnation is, Like your energy gets recycled,
• 47:07
  not that you come back into a body. Does that make sense,
• 47:09
  right? I was just saying the perception of what people think reincarnation is.
• 47:15
  The people, Yeah, they think when they think of reincarnation, and I
• 47:21
  think the way that it's been depicted is that it's like an endless loop of
• 47:28
  being reincarnated back into a human body. But I believe that the Buddhists believe
• 47:32
  that you can be reincarnated into animals and plants and like all different forms of
• 47:40
  life. But again, I think people think that it means that we're automatically
• 47:47
  brought back onto this planet. And then that's my question and my point of
• 47:52
  bringing this up is like, well, why why would we have to come
• 47:58
  back here? You know, it doesn't really make any sense unless this is
• 48:02
  the only place for us to be, if this is the only place that
• 48:07
  it can stain physical three D life, such as the people that are listening
• 48:14
  to this and such as Wayne myself and Ryan. Right, if you deduct
• 48:17
  all that, and let's say reincarnation is real, then that would imply that
• 48:23
  this is the only place to be because it's the only place that we can
• 48:30
  I mean, what the fuck I mean that is hell? I mean means
• 48:32
  that this is a trap, there's no way out. Excuse me, bluntness,
• 48:38
  but that's exactly whatuld be my depiction of Hell. I mean, what
• 48:42
  do you go to hell for anyway? Well, you have to go back
• 48:45
  to the Christian theology or whatever. But that to me, you see,
• 48:49
  that's what drives me inside. And I'm going but wait a minute. So
• 48:52
  the ultimate intelligence that creates all of this architecture, this is what we call
• 48:58
  reality, the universe, ex that this is the best it could come up
• 49:01
  with. Maybe the idea of what maybe the purpose of what you're saying right
• 49:10
  of the purpose of coming back into this this world. Maybe it's like a
• 49:16
  lot of cultures believe in ancestor worship, where your ancestors are with you.
• 49:22
  Maybe the reincarnation element is almost like being reincarnated or kept alive in the minds
• 49:30
  of your descendants. Maybe it's not you know what, I don't know who
• 49:34
  my ancestors are. I mean, on the DNA but I don't know how
• 49:37
  to connect my ancestors and I don't know them. Well, maybe walk and
• 49:42
  slap me in the face and I'd go, sure, prove it, you
• 49:45
  know. But maybe we learned that after we die, I mean, maybe
• 49:46
  we the restraints to the physical world are lifted and we have access to the
• 49:52
  akashik or whatever that the Kosher records record. Yes, what actually comes from
• 49:59
  the book of mallet Ki By the way, I didn't know that, Yeah,
• 50:02
  Malachi h three twenty. It's actually that talks about the angel or the
• 50:09
  entity that writes everything down into the book. But then comes in another thought
• 50:17
  and train of thought, what if when we die, things are so bad
• 50:27
  outside of our reality that this place is the only place for us to come
• 50:31
  to, right, Like, what if everything is just like destroyed and this
• 50:37
  is a real simulation for us to be in for a period of time until
• 50:42
  everything outside of us gets rebuilt. What you're saying is, when you die
• 50:45
  and die, you go to Portland, don't bring your guns. You know.
• 50:55
  Well, I mean a lot of people think that, you know,
• 50:59
  especially the New Age thought ideas and beliefs, that we choose to come here,
• 51:07
  right that's like a theory and a thought that has been permeated for a
• 51:12
  really long time, and I feel like it's an excuse like to be like,
• 51:15
  oh, well, you chose this life. Well, I'm sure for
• 51:19
  a lot of people they did not choose their circumstances or their ideas, which
• 51:22
  I think is complete in utter fabrication. But if we take that into consideration,
• 51:28
  and that concept that we chose to be here and live this life,
• 51:34
  then why would we choose to be here and live this life. There would
• 51:38
  have to be some sort of extenuating circumstances outside of our reality that would kind
• 51:46
  of force us to continuously come back here. I don't know. That's just
• 51:52
  where my thought process. You know, you think about the birth process.
• 51:55
  So if we're really you know, eternal, or if we're really these consciousness
• 52:00
  that really never die, never began. But so you're telling me that we
• 52:06
  thought about this, and and so we're reading the agreement. You're going to
• 52:09
  go through the birth canal. I can't think of anything more painful for a
• 52:15
  human to experience than physical birth. It only happens one way. You can't
• 52:20
  do it twice. And then you're going to roll the dice and hope that
• 52:24
  someone's there to take care of you. I mean that maybe that is the
• 52:30
  point the experience. I don't know. Maybe that's why we fear death so
• 52:37
  much that we're afraid of being born again. M Ryan, what do you
• 52:46
  think? You know? Honestly, I don't know if I have much of
• 52:51
  an opinion on it. I don't know if I'm not an opinion per se.
• 52:53
  But I don't really have that thought worked out too well. I don't
• 53:00
  know if it's something that I could really it's abstract. I don't know if
• 53:05
  I could really put them into words. How I feel about it, Like
• 53:07
  I understand the question, I understand what Wayne's saying. Don't if I really
• 53:12
  have many thoughts about that, I'm being honest, Yeah, I think it's
• 53:15
  just an interesting concept and just where my mind and brain goes is sometimes it's
• 53:22
  a weird mind and a weird brain, But sometimes I think it has takes
• 53:27
  me to that direction, like you know, to analyze things from a different
• 53:31
  kind of perspective. And what if there is extenuating circumstances that we do not
• 53:37
  know about because we're in this three D physical reality that whenever we get outside
• 53:45
  of this three D physical reality, we actually get the full scope, in
• 53:50
  the full picture, so then we voluntarily come back whether those extenuating circumstances or
• 54:00
  are bad circumstances, or regardless if they're good or bad. Well, do
• 54:06
  all spirits have physical bodies? I mean I went to Bible school, and
• 54:13
  you know, we John writes about in the Book of Revelation, how the
• 54:16
  one third of the heavens, you know, and if you go by his
• 54:19
  number one thousand times a thousand times a thousand, then you know you're looking
• 54:22
  at something like ten trillion angels that were created, and all of a sudden
• 54:27
  they fail a third of them. That means there is roughly about thirty three
• 54:31
  trillion angel fallen angels. Going with the concept, and did all of those
• 54:38
  trillions of angels demons? Do they have physical bodies? Or is it that
• 54:44
  there's another process that we're not fully understanding how consciousness manifest. I mean,
• 54:52
  so if we're the only ones that are going through the physical birth again that's
• 54:58
  finite. Well, then I think you kind of have to define what an
• 55:06
  angel is. I mean, is it's like you're saying, as an angel
• 55:09
  a physical entity, does it have a physical body? Is it an energy?
• 55:15
  Is it electricity? You know what is an actual angel, and I
• 55:20
  think that it's a that's a hypothetical and theological definition of what an angel is,
• 55:28
  because I don't really think anybody really knows what an angel is well.
• 55:31
  In the same way that you can interpret heaven as being a state of love
• 55:36
  and compassion and hell as being a state of like betrayal and loneliness and heartbreak
• 55:43
  and purgatory, is that transition between the two that means purifying. I think
• 55:47
  you can interpret angels and demons in similar ways, Like if you were to
• 55:52
  look at a lot of classical demons in the demonological lore, where you have
• 55:58
  let's say asthmo dea who is he gives different things, like he can teach
• 56:02
  you things, but he's usually rich, he can make you rich. He's
• 56:07
  usually the demon of lust. So a person who is lust full is said
• 56:12
  to be possessed by as Modeas. It doesn't mean that they're in need of
• 56:16
  an exorcism. They're possessed by the spirit, if you will, of Asmodeus.
• 56:22
  They're possessed by the idea of Asthmodeus. In the same way that you
• 56:25
  know, we even talk sometimes politically about possession. We'll say people are possessed
• 56:30
  by Marxism or possessed by ultra conservatism. It's the same possessed by power,
• 56:37
  possessed by their wealth, their ideas. You know, we say ideas,
• 56:42
  and like sometimes our thoughts are eating us alive, like the demons are inside
• 56:45
  of a senus alive. I mean a lot of and same with angels too.
• 56:49
  A lot of this stuff is a matter of we're personifying suffering or personifying
• 56:57
  aspects of ourself that we can't I don't think, identify with otherwise, like
• 57:01
  we project them externally. And another good example of this is where the word
• 57:07
  exorcism comes from, because it has a similar route x orcism and ex er
• 57:13
  size. So we say exercise demons. It's kind of a funny play on
• 57:17
  words, but we literally exercise demons. Traditionally, demons would be possessed through
• 57:24
  medical procedures, long before there was ever like a cannon sort of exorcism in
• 57:30
  the church. The samurai would actually come into a home. These were the
• 57:37
  famous samurai warriors, and if someone was possessed quote unquote, they would take
• 57:43
  their sword and they would cut the air above the head to sever the connection
• 57:47
  to the spirit. So the samurai performed exorcisms. You go back much further
• 57:53
  than the samurai, and you find that people performed exorcisms in different ways all
• 57:59
  over the world. They were people that were sick from an illness, some
• 58:01
  sort of illness. We didn't know what it was, and so we said
• 58:05
  that there was some spirit possessing them. And so they would usually do things
• 58:08
  like playing music, which is harmony, which is balance and love and all.
• 58:15
  Pythagoras talked about harmony being basically God. And when these things would the
• 58:20
  music would be played, they thought that people could be healed and the demon
• 58:22
  would leave the body. But the point of what I'm getting out here is
• 58:27
  that sickness was usually seen as the possessing spirit, and we personified sicknesses as
• 58:32
  different demonic entities, and when we exercised them, well, we still do
• 58:37
  the same thing. We exercise to stay in shape. We also exercise to
• 58:43
  keep our minds and our mental states in shape so that we're not possessed by
• 58:46
  corrupting ideologies or ideas. Well, hopefully that's what we strive to do.
• 58:51
  That so demons are in a sense, their diseases, their temptations, their
• 58:58
  personifications of things, rather than physical entities. In the same way that we
• 59:02
  can see heaven and Hell as personifications of states of mind. So I don't
• 59:07
  think it's necessarily that there's all these different characters running around in some etheric realm.
• 59:15
  But I do think that, without sounding like a new ager, there
• 59:19
  is a universal I guess stream, let's say, of consciousness. And I
• 59:22
  don't think that you can separate it and say that there's a billion or a
• 59:25
  trillion of this, or that it's an infinite stream of consciousness let's say,
• 59:30
  and we're all just individual segments of that or little pieces of that. How
• 59:37
  many times have you read the law of one material right? Zero? I
• 59:44
  respect myself too much to red But there is some aspect of that. I
• 59:51
  think why that material is so popular because there's some aspect of that concept that
• 59:55
  is probably universally true. I mean, like the idea of animism. That's
• 1:00:00
  probably one of the oldest religious like beliefs or philosophies, that everything is animated
• 1:00:05
  with a spirit. I mean, if you you go, it doesn't matter
• 1:00:08
  where you look. If you look in like in the old Shamanic belief systems
• 1:00:14
  or the Shamanic cults or whatever you choose to call them, you know they
• 1:00:16
  kind of viewed everything as being I guess blessed with spirit. The animistic cults
• 1:00:24
  believed everything had spirit. Same thing. Again, I practice Shinto. Within
• 1:00:30
  Shintoism, there's kind of a universal idea, at least in Japan, there
• 1:00:34
  is everything is alive, everything has a spirit, you know, even ordinary
• 1:00:39
  kitchen utensils have a spirit. So it's interesting as well for myself. So
• 1:00:45
  in the Gospel of Mark, if you study the book itself, it's it's
• 1:00:52
  interesting because that is the primary book that introduced demons prior to the Gospel of
• 1:01:00
  Jesus. Was not the one that we would think. But in the Gospel
• 1:01:04
  of Mark and every village in town that he went into, the first thing
• 1:01:07
  he did, before he even laid hands to heal the sick, he cast
• 1:01:12
  out the demons. And then we have the demonac at the Dicopolis, that
• 1:01:19
  where Jesus asked the man, He says, well who are you? And
• 1:01:22
  the demon said, we are legion, meaning and of course the story goes
• 1:01:29
  on that then that demons came out of him and hit into a herd of
• 1:01:32
  swine, and they drowned themselves over the cliff. Lester Somraw's a guy I
• 1:01:39
  studied under in my youth. But it's very interesting because prior to that,
• 1:01:44
  in the Old Testament we had evil spirits. Saul was tormented by an evil
• 1:01:49
  spirit, and David would play the heart and soothe his temperament. And so
• 1:01:55
  again, the whole idea of demons within themselves a modern concept that we have
• 1:02:02
  now propagated to a whole structure of occultism. It's a whole structure of religious
• 1:02:08
  belief within itself. Yeah, well call it. The Plancy's Dictionary in Ferland
• 1:02:14
  late eighteen hundreds really amplified that because it he depicted all the classical demons and
• 1:02:20
  other I mean, it's a it's a dictionary, it's a encyclopedia, and
• 1:02:23
  gave them book. By the way it is. I have a rare copy
• 1:02:27
  of it. It's beautiful, lucky one. You know. You know that
• 1:02:31
  book. So if anybody doesn't know that book, go try to find a
• 1:02:35
  copy of it. Just look at it online. Huge, beautiful book,
• 1:02:37
  very expensive, but all like a lot of the demons that we like that
• 1:02:40
  that that we see depicted today, A lot of them, or I'd say
• 1:02:46
  almost all of them are referenceable back to the Plancy's Dictionary. So that was
• 1:02:52
  in like what the late what was it the nineteenth century? That so nineteenth
• 1:02:57
  century. Yeah, a lot of them depict or just they're just like one
• 1:03:01
  hundred and one hundred and forty years old something like that. They're not that
• 1:03:05
  old, but like whatever we consider it, I mean, demon demons are
• 1:03:09
  They come from the word damon, which again is right, divine ones,
• 1:03:14
  right, which is part of you, which I think is where the idea
• 1:03:16
  of the little angel and the little Devil on the shoulder come from. It's
• 1:03:21
  really you. You have that angelet. And even Native Americans have this.
• 1:03:24
  I don't know which tribes, if all tribes do. A lot of Native
• 1:03:27
  tribes have this idea of the two wolves in whichever one you feed, which
• 1:03:30
  when you feed, is the one that wins and gets strong. It's the
• 1:03:35
  same thing. Do you feed the angel, listen to the angel, or
• 1:03:37
  do you feed the devil? Or if you watch that, if you have
• 1:03:39
  watched family guy Peter's got the devil on the shoulder or something's like where's the
• 1:03:44
  other guy? A great joke that goes with that. It's a cute little
• 1:03:46
  blond thing and then little prick. We'll keep this there. You ready,
• 1:03:55
  there is the angel on Peter's shoulder, stuck in trap. That's unbelievable.
• 1:04:09
  Always a good time on Riders show. That's all I got to say.
• 1:04:13
  Yeah, so we have this, Uh we've covered a lot uh here today
• 1:04:18
  covered I can't even see it in the rear view mirror. Any what are
• 1:04:21
  we talking about? Demons? Demons play a big role into Hell, because
• 1:04:31
  that's that's who's the tormentors, right, that's the whole idea. You get
• 1:04:35
  sent to Hell, you're going to be tormented by the demons. Right,
• 1:04:45
  Yeah, I just lost my train of thought on what reached me? Think,
• 1:04:48
  well, what do the angels do for you in heaven? The seventy
• 1:04:55
  two virgins, and you know, you get the idea, well, they're
• 1:04:58
  all a but also a family guy or something said they were all man.
• 1:05:02
  They just didn't know it. They were all like a bunch of nerds playing
• 1:05:06
  World of Warcraft or some family guys. One of my favorite family guy skits
• 1:05:18
  was whenever Peter goes and looks in the mirror and he's contacted by his one
• 1:05:26
  of his ancestors that was black, and he asked him what's heaven like?
• 1:05:30
  And then the ancestor says, well, there's a shortage of chairs. He
• 1:05:40
  just disappears. But I've heard it said that demons give while angels take,
• 1:05:49
  which I think is a very interesting consolet that if you're if you want to
• 1:05:57
  tell the difference between an angel and a demon, you can tell by like
• 1:06:00
  what it's doing. If you're being given something, then it's by a demon.
• 1:06:04
  If something's being taken, then it's an angel. Which I think that
• 1:06:08
  the concept of angels and demons have been flipped. It's just like I think
• 1:06:14
  the concept of God and Satan or the devil or whatever personification you want to
• 1:06:20
  use, Lucifer has also been flipped. They're the opposites. Those are totally
• 1:06:27
  different characters, right, I mean, for heaven to be the opposite of
• 1:06:30
  hell, heaven or vice versa, hell to be the opposite of heaven,
• 1:06:33
  we could look at it that way. Hell couldn't also be a pit of
• 1:06:36
  fire. Fire is light? Like you ask the most tale the Baptist missionaries
• 1:06:42
  that where's hell again? We're bringing the family and everyone else. Yeah,
• 1:06:48
  it's having the opposite, you know. The contrary is it's if you have
• 1:06:53
  a place of fire and light, that's not the opposite of a place of
• 1:06:58
  heat and light and beauty and hell. That doesn't make any sense. That's
• 1:07:00
  purely a creation. But suffering and feeling like anger creates heat. You can
• 1:07:08
  feel the heat when you get really angry. You can also feel the heat
• 1:07:11
  when you get really you know, you feel really in love. You say
• 1:07:14
  people are in heat or in animals in heat. It's the same kind of
• 1:07:16
  a thing. We look at God and we look at these different definitions and
• 1:07:20
  versions of God. Same thing with the devil. Like people say the devil,
• 1:07:24
  Lucifer, and Satan are all the same character, They're not. Satan
• 1:07:28
  is Hitan the adversary. You could interpret that as a necessary evil like Saturn
• 1:07:32
  or chronos chronology time time is a necessary evil, death and resurrection, death
• 1:07:39
  and rebirth. The accuser the devil, I mean, in simple terms,
• 1:07:45
  the devil would be the inversion of life. So l I ve live.
• 1:07:48
  Turn it around, it's evil at a D it's devil. Devil is d
• 1:07:53
  e v I L reverse that it's lived, to have lived. The opposite
• 1:07:57
  of to have lived is to die. That's evil. And then Lucifer is
• 1:08:00
  this false light. So in the same way that you know, anger can
• 1:08:04
  make you hot and love can make you hot. Both of those things are
• 1:08:10
  also I think exemplified in the concept of Lucifer, because Lucifer is false light,
• 1:08:17
  but there's also good light. In the same way, there's actually good
• 1:08:23
  and bad darkness. Like good darkness, you could say, is the abyss
• 1:08:26
  without the abyss or the beginning of everything when the spirit hovers over the waters
• 1:08:31
  in Genesis. You can't create light if there is no darkness, and Manly
• 1:08:35
  Hall argues that too. He talks about how there's a real darkness and a
• 1:08:40
  fake darkness, and a real light and a fake light. So when you
• 1:08:43
  start to look at it from that point of view, these are not all
• 1:08:45
  the same characters. These are totally different characters, and they're kind of like
• 1:08:48
  Heaven, Hell and Purgatory in a way because you have Satan who is kind
• 1:08:55
  of hot, you have the Devil who is kind of cold in that ice
• 1:08:58
  palace, and you have Lucifer, who's kind of lukewarm in between. It's
• 1:09:01
  a very similar, almost trinity like concept. I think that's just that's my
• 1:09:05
  view. Oh, even the Bible says that God, you know, Genesis
• 1:09:11
  one to one, came from darkness. There was no light. It spoke
• 1:09:16
  and it said, let there be light. I don't know who heard that,
• 1:09:19
  but anyway, so by that, the very logic is is that whatever
• 1:09:24
  this creative force was, it came from the void. The nothingness came from
• 1:09:29
  the void. That's right, and that darkness is kind of like the necessary
• 1:09:33
  evil to compare and contrast these things. I've also thought, this is my
• 1:09:39
  opinion, and I wrote a book on this recently called Garden of Hallucinations.
• 1:09:44
  I was thinking, you know, I've never done ayahuasca, but when I've
• 1:09:47
  listened to other people who have done ayahuasca, and I've looked at paintings from
• 1:09:50
  shamans, ayahuasca experiences sound really similar to Genesis. You're in a garden surrounded
• 1:09:59
  by all these creatures, and as snake, who's half woman in the tradition
• 1:10:05
  Lilith with the red hair, comes to you on a tree. And in
• 1:10:11
  the ayahuasca experience, you're usually in a garden. There's a lot of animals
• 1:10:15
  and snakes. It's very beautiful, and Mother Ayahuasca, who is half human
• 1:10:20
  half snake, comes and talks to you. And from Genesis to Revelation Saint
• 1:10:26
  John, there's a I mean, I've heard some people that I think would
• 1:10:30
  be considered pretty reputable sources, like scholars talk about the idea that John was
• 1:10:35
  maybe high on mushrooms when he wrote Revelation, right, there are a lot
• 1:10:39
  of Yeah, So from Genesis to Revelation, you've got like an ayahuasca experience.
• 1:10:45
  You've got like a amanita muscare mushroom experience. The Bible is very much
• 1:10:48
  like a shamanic journey in a way, whether that's you know, internal in
• 1:10:53
  you or an altered state of consciousness external of you or both. Isn't the
• 1:10:57
  snake people but naga half human half's right one of them? Yeah, it's
• 1:11:02
  India, I believe India. Yes, and you find them everywhere. They
• 1:11:05
  got like the dragon dragon people in China, the rainbow serpent in Australia.
• 1:11:11
  Yeah, even quits ocuadle is the plump serpent in in America, the plum,
• 1:11:15
  the plume serpent, the origins of America. And it's esoteric meaning you
• 1:11:23
  know, I could be off on that amoral like a mirror am. I
• 1:11:30
  think it is Native Americans, right cuco Kan Yeah, and they have the
• 1:11:41
  I mean they have the the adversary of quits. A quaddle is took to
• 1:11:45
  capta is the god of illusions, very much like Lucifer. It's so you
• 1:11:50
  have the same I mean, these concepts are universal. I think that we're
• 1:11:55
  dealing with Honestly, I think all this, these mythological narratives and all these
• 1:12:00
  like the ancient magical practices, the ritual magic practices that some people still do
• 1:12:04
  today. I think a lot of it's just honestly psychology, like in the
• 1:12:09
  same way that you have like astrology, and then astronomy comes out of astrology
• 1:12:15
  alchemy, and then like biology and chemistry largely come out of more so chemistry
• 1:12:19
  comes at alchemy. You've got like magic, like ritual ceremonial magic, and
• 1:12:26
  psychology kind of comes out of ceremonial magic because that's what like the magical tools
• 1:12:30
  like the wand and the sword represent your will, represents your mind that you
• 1:12:35
  know. The pinnacle is the body, you know, the cup or the
• 1:12:39
  cup is the pouring out of perhaps thought or consciousness. Different schools they assign
• 1:12:45
  those two different elements like firewater, air, and earth. But it's really
• 1:12:49
  just psychology. It's really it's a really and mythology itself is actually a form
• 1:12:56
  of science because you're trying to catalog and figure out why things happen the world
• 1:13:00
  and give names to them. Why does lightning come down from the heaven?
• 1:13:03
  Why does it rain? Why is their wind? Why are their floods?
• 1:13:05
  Why are their storms? You personify them, give them me. That's science.
• 1:13:11
  Quite interesting to talk, Beau. I have a ton of ghost hutting
• 1:13:15
  equipment, and one of my favorite ones is the SLS camera. And when
• 1:13:20
  you're walking in the woods, it's quite interesting if you think I've seen this.
• 1:13:26
  If you think something's going to scare you, you have this anticipating of
• 1:13:30
  fear. It seems to radiate and manifest exactly that which you are thinking.
• 1:13:35
  Whereas if you go in with the calmness and say, well, I'm going
• 1:13:39
  to speak with the spirits, it amazes me how I can pick them up
• 1:13:43
  on the camera. They become very proliferated within the trees themselves. But that's
• 1:13:49
  if you believe in ghosts. Yeah. I think there was a science experiment
• 1:13:56
  where a group of researchers actually created a ghost, like an agregoric ghost.
• 1:14:03
  They gave it a backstory and gave it a name, and like all the
• 1:14:08
  stuff and wild try and communicate with it, and then it would communicate back
• 1:14:13
  with them. It just shows you that your thoughts and your ideas and your
• 1:14:17
  beliefs create reality. Well, it says the children of Israel when they faced
• 1:14:23
  the Philistines that they created go them the excuse me these clay figures that are
• 1:14:34
  alive. I just forgot the word at the moment. What were the gollum
• 1:14:41
  thought forms like the thank you, the tulpas and the or Paracelsus had a
• 1:14:47
  weird name for them. I can't remember the name they were usually actually sometimes
• 1:14:51
  they were so I think Paracelsus, the alchemist and physician and some of the
• 1:14:56
  other old writers associated those like golams are tulpas or agrigors, which I think
• 1:15:02
  is French. They associated those with the elementals, and actually Jock Folet talks
• 1:15:08
  about them as being the little people, the little green men, which is
• 1:15:12
  part of the UFO narrative as well. I mean, and the sylths,
• 1:15:15
  which are the air spirits. I mean, they're basically like there's these creatures
• 1:15:19
  that can fly through the air. They abduct you into like the fairies,
• 1:15:23
  they take you to their world. So there's a correlation, without doubt between
• 1:15:27
  everything from the elementals, which are associated with modern elements, modern elements,
• 1:15:32
  carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, et cetera. And then all the
• 1:15:35
  you know in UFOs, all the way back to what's that you brought up
• 1:15:43
  just this article on our research group brought Philip the ghost to life, which
• 1:15:48
  which was what I was talking about, and they gave it a backstory,
• 1:15:53
  the fictional character and named it Philip, and they created this whole biography for
• 1:16:02
  this entity and this in this ghost, and then they started to communicate with
• 1:16:09
  him. So like when you're looking at that's an interesting story because when you
• 1:16:15
  perform ritual ceremonial magic, let's say, and you do something that's more black
• 1:16:18
  and you try to communicate with the demon or the devil and obtain something.
• 1:16:24
  I mean, ultimately you're you're doing this with yourself, which is why black
• 1:16:29
  magic can drive people mad and crazy. Like really dark you know, things
• 1:16:33
  where you're doing really bad stuff will help you can talk about necessarily, but
• 1:16:38
  like that kind of thing where you're asking for assistance or you're asking for something
• 1:16:42
  from some some other entity, you're really talking to yourself. And that's why
• 1:16:45
  you can drive yourself mad. That's why the demon in the myths or the
• 1:16:48
  stories, the demon will try to kill you and break the contract. It's
• 1:16:53
  really you driving yourself crazy. In the same way that when you see the
• 1:16:57
  death tarot card, that means that you might actuly. You might actually have
• 1:17:01
  a relationship that's ending, or you might have a job that's ending. Let's
• 1:17:04
  say you can interpret it that way. But if you worry so much about
• 1:17:08
  it, you might actually end up doing something that you wouldn't have done otherwise,
• 1:17:12
  and you might end up dying because you were so afraid that you saw
• 1:17:15
  the death tarot card. So if they can create a ghost and basically like
• 1:17:19
  they can manifest this thing, it's the same thing when you're talking about the
• 1:17:23
  spirit realm, or the demons or the angels, like these are things that
• 1:17:26
  we can septualize, personify, and if we see them in a particular way,
• 1:17:31
  then they can have an effect on us. That's what all the magical
• 1:17:34
  works all about. Anyway, you know something, Ryannie, you were saying
• 1:17:39
  that, it's exactly the same thing when I was in the ministry of Christianity.
• 1:17:44
  Isn't that what you pray to God for? You want God to answer
• 1:17:47
  your question, your prayer, your request, But there is an exchange that
• 1:17:53
  is required. If you're in the occult, even if you're into a religion,
• 1:18:00
  it's the same principle. I've told people this many times. My initiation
• 1:18:03
  into the occult was thirty years in Pentecostal Christianity, because within the charismatic Pentecostal
• 1:18:12
  movement there is more of what I would call occultism taking place in the ceremonies
• 1:18:17
  than I've seen in any black magic or any other occult practices that I've seen
• 1:18:23
  or read about. Let's tell people to go to a Catholic church. Well,
• 1:18:29
  I mean you think about communion is a blood covenant, It's a blood
• 1:18:31
  contract, the consumption of the flesh within itself. I mean the same thing
• 1:18:39
  when you put someone in the middle and you form a prayer circle around them,
• 1:18:43
  the same thing when you're going to lay hands on a person to receive
• 1:18:45
  the Holy Spirit or to cure them to bring forth healing. All of this
• 1:18:50
  is ritual magic. It totally is. I completely agree with you, and
• 1:18:57
  in fact, I went to church recently. I went to a couple of
• 1:19:01
  churches recently just to I haven't been a church as I was a kid,
• 1:19:04
  and they're the first on you or anything like that, not burst into flames
• 1:19:11
  or anything like that good. But the first day I was, the first
• 1:19:15
  night I went. I want going every week, but the first time I
• 1:19:17
  went, they were talking about the Witch of Indoor, which is like one
• 1:19:19
  of my favorite stories. But then the like I went the other night and
• 1:19:23
  they were talking about they were talking about marriage, but they had they I
• 1:19:29
  forget exactly what the pastor was saying, but as he was talking, I
• 1:19:31
  was thinking, like, this just sounds like magic. It just sounds like
• 1:19:35
  some ceremonial ritual thing that you're doing. But if you do it in a
• 1:19:40
  church setting, everybody's you know, shakes each other's hands and dresses nice,
• 1:19:44
  and they're like, no, this is for God. It's like, well,
• 1:19:46
  that's what you're doing, and it's ritual magic. You purify yourself the
• 1:19:50
  baptism, you clean yourself, you wear nice clothes, you light the incense
• 1:19:56
  and the oils the sophima gationation, and we pray to God, let let
• 1:20:01
  this, they say, Let this Bible study, you know, fill us
• 1:20:03
  with knowledge and wisdom from your great books. It's all this, we would
• 1:20:08
  say, and we invite the Holy Spirit to come in and take command of
• 1:20:12
  the meeting. Excuse me, I could put the you know whatever, Lucifer
• 1:20:18
  in the front of that, you know, but that's really and we,
• 1:20:20
  like you said, because it was in a church, it's completely legal.
• 1:20:25
  Yeah, so to speak. And actually when you say when they say the
• 1:20:29
  end of the pray or they say amen at the beginning to end, I
• 1:20:30
  always tack on raw. Yeah, and raw not a woman, but am
• 1:20:39
  a Monroe. See that's what always got me with Paul. You know,
• 1:20:43
  Paul wrote in the Book of Acton he was in Ephesus, which was the
• 1:20:45
  occult center of that time in that era. A lot of people don't know
• 1:20:50
  Ephesus was known for that. And it's always interested me because Paul comes in
• 1:20:55
  and he says, well, I saw your promenade where you had the different
• 1:21:00
  gods that he had, and then he had one that was dedicated to God
• 1:21:02
  that had no name, and he says, that's the God I serve.
• 1:21:08
  Now. He said that in fifty yards across the way was a synagogue,
• 1:21:14
  so Paul would have known the name of Jehovah. So who is this god?
• 1:21:20
  Again? I know it extends all the way into what I how the
• 1:21:25
  occult is so much or the religion is so much like the occult. I
• 1:21:30
  don't know if this is similar to what are relevant to what you brought up
• 1:21:32
  earlier, Wayne about how maybe the founders of Christianity in a sense like the
• 1:21:39
  founders of Islam. There's a similar origin because in this there's an esoteric story
• 1:21:45
  which you might be familiar with, the interpretation of Lucifer being cast down to
• 1:21:49
  earth or from the heavens down to the land below, and that is the
• 1:21:54
  moon God often depicted as or personified as Jehovah, casts the light because the
• 1:22:00
  moon is the reflector casts the light of Venus Lucifer down to the earth.
• 1:22:04
  So it's really like a physical thing where the light of Venus is cast to
• 1:22:08
  the earth by the moon god Jehovah, but as a moon god Jehovah.
• 1:22:11
  That's I mean, the moon is the centerpiece of Islam. I mean they're
• 1:22:15
  I mean Allah, which is Arabic for God. I mean it is a
• 1:22:18
  moon based religion. So it is the Hebrew calendar. Yes, it's moon
• 1:22:24
  based, and that's why they it's and in fact, if you go to
• 1:22:28
  Temple Square in Salt Lake City, they have the sun too, but they
• 1:22:31
  have a lot of moons simply they have all the phases of the moon carved
• 1:22:35
  into the main temple which is oriented west to east. Yeah, I mean
• 1:22:42
  moon worship is a is a primary foundational element within all of human history,
• 1:22:46
  which it's from erb the you know, which the Abrahamic religion. He was
• 1:22:51
  a Samarian, but that's what his family were. They worked at the temple
• 1:22:56
  for the moon goddess yep, and the moon moon goddesses. Now you find
• 1:23:01
  the moon goddess in in ancient Japan too, they worship the moon goddess.
• 1:23:05
  I believe Suki Yomi, which is my name name, yeah, Yomi,
• 1:23:13
  is the Japanese underworld. So here again you have Suki Yomi, I believe.
• 1:23:17
  I'm a double check that to make sure that's right. But you have
• 1:23:19
  Asuki Yomi. Uh who is the who is the moon goddess? And double
• 1:23:25
  check the name, Yeah, Suku Suko or Suku Suku Yomi. So you
• 1:23:30
  can extract the underworld out of the name for the moon goddess. And that's
• 1:23:33
  really what the moon is. The moon is a reflector of light, so
• 1:23:38
  it is the in a sense that you have the as above so below hermetic
• 1:23:42
  axiom here too, I think because you have the moon, which is essentially
• 1:23:45
  reflecting the light onto the underworld when the when the sun, the black sun
• 1:23:49
  is you know, goes into the underworld like Ross Chariot in the West,
• 1:23:55
  and there's darkness upon the Earth, and all we get is that the reflection
• 1:23:58
  of the moon. So the moon like the Sun. I mean, it's
• 1:24:01
  not just sun worship, it's moon worship. And I think that gets overlooked
• 1:24:06
  quite a bit. I smell a rat, yeah, And I think another
• 1:24:13
  thing is like if you if you extract the name YopE me out of moon
• 1:24:16
  goddess in Japan, it shows you that the moon is intimately associated with darkness
• 1:24:21
  and with the underworld. That's and false light because it's the moon that casts
• 1:24:28
  Venus or Lucifer down to the Earth. Didn't you see the black moon during
• 1:24:31
  the eclypse Ryan? You mean the double moon in the double sun. Yeah.
• 1:24:38
  I was talking to somebody. I was talking to somebody at my apartment
• 1:24:41
  complex that when this was happening, and they said, they said, I'm
• 1:24:45
  trying to find the moon and I said, well, it's some pretty sure
• 1:24:47
  it's right there. And they said, no, no, no, they
• 1:24:48
  said that's not the moon. They said there's another moon. I said,
• 1:24:53
  I was like, I don't I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.
• 1:24:56
  They said, well, no, they I read someone online they said
• 1:24:58
  that there's another there's like multiple planets, it's happening right now, and there's
• 1:25:01
  like a fake moon. And I was like, what are you reading?
• 1:25:04
  What are you talking? A bro? Well, that's probably what they were
• 1:25:11
  getting at. Yeah, the super planet. Did you see people cutting these
• 1:25:16
  videos? I'm sure you saw this writer where people like filming the eclipse or
• 1:25:20
  something and then like the video clearly cuts, and then they have a they
• 1:25:26
  have like the video of the moon. They're like, well, how's the
• 1:25:29
  moon over there if it's supposed to be over here? And it's like they
• 1:25:30
  clearly just cut these two videos together. They got like a million hits on
• 1:25:34
  Youtubeer, all we all we have to do is lie, I guess,
• 1:25:41
  just bring a little fear into it and get a little bit of the occult,
• 1:25:44
  little bit of religion. You gotta. You got a best seller,
• 1:25:46
  and if you don't believe me, you're going to hell. That's the way
• 1:25:51
  it works. That's why I'm not as popular as I should be. Guys,
• 1:25:58
  I can ask you both a question real quick. If you had to
• 1:26:00
  define your philosopher lane, like what religion, philosophy? Like, what's your
• 1:26:05
  outlook on life? Like I do practice Shinto. I think it's beautiful.
• 1:26:10
  I'm not. It's not a dogma though, Like what do you guys practice?
• 1:26:15
  Do you think? Do you have? Do you have an identification of
• 1:26:16
  classification for yourself? Either of you? For myself? It's like Aristotle said,
• 1:26:26
  I I realized that the one constant in my life is I don't know
• 1:26:30
  anything. I have always been a person who gives praise and gratitude, and
• 1:26:36
  as I have evolved, I don't know if you want to use that word,
• 1:26:41
  it's probably as good as word as any. I give praise to the
• 1:26:45
  one who created my consciousness. I don't know who or what that is,
• 1:26:50
  but I do know it exists. I can't give it definition, but I
• 1:26:55
  sing to it. I give gratitude and praise and thanksgiving for it, because
• 1:27:00
  if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be who I am. So that's
• 1:27:03
  kind of where I'm at. Okay, what about you, writer? And
• 1:27:06
  then I know you get to wrap it up. I was just curious about
• 1:27:09
  this. Well, every time that I think that I one hundred percent for
• 1:27:16
  a fact know something something. Later on in the future comes out and makes
• 1:27:24
  me reevaluate my beliefs. So it's always a it's a changing it's an ever
• 1:27:32
  changing thing and I and I think that's the beauty of it. The beauty
• 1:27:38
  of it is that we can have these kinds of theosophical discussions and maybe change
• 1:27:45
  our ideas and our beliefs and our views. I think that that's what makes
• 1:27:49
  us so special here. And anybody that is locked into a strict dogma that
• 1:27:56
  does not allow criticism, does not allow outside thoughts and ideas, in my
• 1:28:03
  personal view, is the wrong way to go. I think that we should
• 1:28:08
  always be open to different thoughts, ideas and beliefs and not be able to
• 1:28:15
  and be able to change and edit our own personal thoughts, ideas and believes
• 1:28:21
  when presented with new information. That's why people I never lie. I change
• 1:28:30
  my mind a lot, but I never lie. I mean, all you
• 1:28:34
  can work with is the knowledge that you have at the time, and once
• 1:28:39
  we gain more knowledge, our ideas and thoughts and beliefs inevitably change, and
• 1:28:45
  they should change. That's a part of the evolving nature of reality here.
• 1:28:53
  I agree they should change. It's probably not good to be stuck in stuck
• 1:28:57
  in ways, especially when it's some sort of dogma or doctrine that you're trying
• 1:29:01
  constantly to defend. You find that's really hard to the date or converse with
• 1:29:06
  people that do have that, because they're trying to defend their stance and when
• 1:29:11
  you're not really even attacking it, nor are you presenting your own. Really,
• 1:29:15
  I think some people have a hard time dealing with that. But maybe
• 1:29:17
  before we go, Rider and I are going to be at the contact and
• 1:29:20
  the Desert Conference, we should mention that again, that's coming up soon end
• 1:29:26
  of May. Yeah, how can people get a hold of you to contribute
• 1:29:34
  to that fund? Ryan? Yeah, we're actually I think we pretty much
• 1:29:39
  made a most We're only like fifty bucks away or something. But you want
• 1:29:43
  to find my content. Rdigable at yahoo dot com is my email if you
• 1:29:46
  want to contact me. But the Secret Teachings like you see above here at
• 1:29:50
  the Teachings dot info is my antiquated website, and there's an inbed player for
• 1:29:58
  the free show archive. Uh, there's an RSS feed. And then of
• 1:30:01
  course if you're interested in my books, a cult Arcana would probably be a
• 1:30:05
  book you'd really enjoy, h that I think would be really in line with
• 1:30:12
  what we talked about that I actually have a chapter on Heaven Helen Purgatory in
• 1:30:15
  that book. So that's at the Secret Teachings dot info cult Arcana. Thanks
• 1:30:19
  for having me on writer. Don't you love that? Ryan? Whenever I
• 1:30:23
  just come up with something and don't even know that you've written about it and
• 1:30:27
  we just have a conversation on it, It's beautiful. It happens all the
• 1:30:30
  time. I love it. That stars that's we're connected. Thanks so much
• 1:30:35
  for coming on. Ryan. Really appreciate you. Wayne. Where can people
• 1:30:39
  find you online? Just over YouTube? Are Wayne Steiger? And thank you
• 1:30:43
  Ryan. I'm gonna be adding to my library. I think you'd really really
• 1:30:47
  enjoy it. We should actually do a show sometime of Life Too, Love
• 1:30:50
  Too and our writer' I'm sorry, go ahead, no, go ahead.
• 1:30:56
  That's I'm not actually a star seed. I'm more involved than I'm a star
• 1:31:00
  sprout. My seat has sprouted, so I'm a stage ahead of you.
• 1:31:05
  Well, I might have missaid I think I'm a star butterfly. Oh my
• 1:31:10
  god, I'm evolved past that, not a monarch, right, because that's
• 1:31:14
  mind people that the star then out of the butterfly. I turned into a
• 1:31:20
  Star moth Man. Star moth Man. Well, thanks so much everyone for
• 1:31:27
  being here. I really appreciate you guys, everyone in the chat and you
• 1:31:30
  have the channel members and moderators out there. Nina, thanks for being here,
• 1:31:34
  Lori, Scottie Boy, Candace, good to see you, guys,
• 1:31:39
  Lost in Space, Deborah Silent Voice, and anybody else that contributed to the
• 1:31:45
  chat. Please be sure to hit the thumbs up button to help the channel
• 1:31:48
  and algorithm share subscribe. Hit the bell icon as well for notifications, and
• 1:31:53
  we will see you guys next time. Thanks everyone,