Latest / Behavioral Health Brief / Ep. 9 | Why Behavioral Health Needs Leaders With Lived Experience

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Ep. 9 | Why Behavioral Health Needs Leaders With Lived Experience · Behavioral Health Brief

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Behavioral Health Brief presented by Tern Behavioral
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Health Services. Behavioral health is about people, people who deserve compassion, dignity,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and the opportunity to heal. At Tern, that belief drives
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: our mission of improving lives. This podcast brings together behavioral
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: health expertise and real stories of transformation to elevate the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: field and inspire meaningful change. Hi, I'm Jim Callahan, President
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: and CEO of Tern Behavioral Health Services. And today I'm
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: here alongside my co-host and Tern's Chief Operating Officer, Dr.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Wendy Brodin.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Wendy, thanks for joining us today. Great that you're my
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: co-host again. And why don't you start us off this morning?
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: What do you got for us?
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Jim.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Really happy to be here today. And we just want
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: to take a moment, a little PSA, a public service announcement.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: for our listeners and viewers. And just to let you
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: know that today's episode, we're going to be having conversations
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: around suicide, addiction, and recovery. And we understand that this
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: might be difficult or sensitive for our audience. And so please,
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: we encourage you, if that's the case, to take care
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: of yourselves, step away, and then please know that what
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: we're intending today is to raise awareness, reduce stigma, And
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: also remind us about the importance of connection.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Right, great.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Today, we're joined by Danny Stone, Vice President of Turn
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Behavioral Health Services, and Tim Bryson, the Program Supervisor of
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Center Star Act, correct? Did I get that right? Because
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I always go by buildings by their location. You're in
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: the blue glass building across from the shopping center down there.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: And so anyhow, I think I got that right. But
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Danny and Tim, thank you guys for being here. You
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: have any opening comments this morning, Danny or Tim?
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: Happy to be here.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Good, good, good to have you. Because I think the
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: good thing about this is going to be able to
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: highlight you with the rest of our workforce, to see
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: and hear from both of you and what you do
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: on a daily basis in your jobs. So both Danny
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: and Tim recently accomplished something very impressive while continuing their
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: work and service at the communities. They each graduated from
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: San Diego State University with a Master of Science degree
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: in Rehabilitation Counseling with an emphasis in clinical mental health.
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  Speaker 1: Congratulations to both of you. That's quite the milestone that
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: you accomplished. So Danny, let's start with you. What inspired
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: you to pursue graduate school at this stage in your career?
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: It's kind of a trickle-down effect with the people that
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: you surround yourself with. In our agency, Tim was going
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: to school at San Diego State at the time, and
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: I was at the time the program manager at East
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: County Center for Change. And he was in his bachelor's
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: program and connected me with Sonia Peterson, who was the
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: director of the rehabilitation program. And it's just something that
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: my boss at the time, Shola, was always encouraging us
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: to further our education. Wendy's encouraging us to further our education.
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: Everybody around us is talking about going back to school,
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: getting certified, getting into their master's programs. And it's just
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: part of the the encouragement and it's such a natural
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: conversation that takes place. I think within our, our community
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: of workforce, um, that it was just a matter of
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: carving out the time, you know, just getting out of
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: that complacent mindset and saying, okay, we're going to do this.
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  Speaker 4: And for me, it's a, I have to lead up
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  Speaker 4: to that. It's not something I just do overnight. I
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: have to mentally prepare like, okay, this is the sacrifice
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: this is going to take. And, But, I mean, once
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: that phone call was made and Tim connected me with Dr. Peterson,
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: once I got off the phone, I knew this is
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: where I'm going to be for the next three years.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, it was three years. Yeah. Wow, long program.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, in person. I was super excited to go to
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: San Diego State. Tim was always bragging about being an Aztec,
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: and it was pretty cool. But it was natural.
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  Speaker 2: Go Aztecs.
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  Speaker 3: You know, it occurs to me that it's– challenging to
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: overcome some of those internal barriers, right? So it's a
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  Speaker 3: voice that says, I'm too old to go back to school,
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: or it's going to take time away from my wife
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: and baby or your family. So why that particular major?
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  Speaker 3: And how did you, we'll start with Tim, how did
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  Speaker 3: you get over that hurdle, that mental hurdle that, you know,
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  Speaker 3: this you're doing, uh, as an adult and going back
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  Speaker 3: to school. So tell us a little bit about that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So I was in the bachelor's program and I think
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  Speaker 2: that was more difficult because I am in class with
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: people half my age that were probably young enough to
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  Speaker 2: be my, my kid. Um, so going to the master's
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  Speaker 2: program was like, it was a goal. I was set
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: on this goal. Um, The bachelor's was a little more
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  Speaker 2: difficult because luckily I got support from Danny and my
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: program manager, Roxy, when she was there because the classes
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: are in the morning and in the middle of the day.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: And so I was able to do a split shift.
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  Speaker 2: Now going to the master's program that we picked, the
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: classes were the earliest ones at 4 p.m. And then
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: there's another one. So we had time to actually go
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: after work. And so that worked out really well.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So what motivated you guys both to do that particular
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: rehabilitation with an emphasis in clinical mental health?
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  Speaker 5: Why that?
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  Speaker 2: So again, Roxy found this co-occurring certificate program. Oh, nice.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: And then I went more into it. She told me, hey,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: I think this would be a great program to take.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Looked more into it. Dr. Sonia Peterson was in charge
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: of the clinical aspect of the rehab program, rehab counseling program.
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  Speaker 2: And then I went and met with her for like
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: an hour. She has lived experience too, just like myself.
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  Speaker 2: And so seeing just her telling me all about it
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  Speaker 2: was like, this is the one I want to go to.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I looked into the MFT and the social work one,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: but the rehab counseling one seemed like it was more fit,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: geared for the population we serve.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Great.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So I was going to ask the question. Go ahead, Danny.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I saw you were ready to go.
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just going to agree with Tim. I
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: was really sold on the aspect of that conversation with Dr.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: Peterson for starts. She really emphasized how valuable life experience,
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: for me, having this life experience and what I can bring.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: So not only was she talking about what I would
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: get out of it, as far as application, immediate application
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  Speaker 4: to my job, it was the life experience and what
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  Speaker 4: I could bring to the program. And that really kind
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: of shined a light towards my North Star, which is
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: everything needs to make sense to me and align the
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: right way for me. And, you know, I interviewed for
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: the MFT at Alliant, and that was the direction I
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: was going. And San Diego State bailed me out of
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: that financially because that would have been a, a huge difference,
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: you know, as far as the private school and stuff
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: like that. But that's the direction I was going. I was,
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  Speaker 4: I was in the process of waiting for my acceptance
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: with Alliant and got rerouted.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Just because of the doctor?
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  Speaker 4: Something that she said she had, it was, uh, in
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  Speaker 4: her life experience and really listening. She wanted to hear
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: my story. She didn't, she didn't want to hear me
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: read off my, my resume. She wanted to hear who
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: Danny was and, That's when I started kind of connecting
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: the dots. I'm like, oh, this is where I'm supposed
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  Speaker 4: to be, this population. You know, it was just, I
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: don't know what it was about her. It was funny
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: because when we started, she had moved on. So she
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: was kind of served as this vessel to kind of
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: bring us in that direction. And then we didn't have
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: any classes.
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  Speaker 1: Where did she go to? Or is she still there
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  Speaker 1: at SDSU?
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  Speaker 4: I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: I think she retired.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: She retired, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, wow. Yeah, she moved on.
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  Speaker 4: We stayed in touch, let her know that we, graduated
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  Speaker 4: and things like that so dr peterson if you're viewing
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  Speaker 4: we did.
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  Speaker 1: It yeah that's really nice i mean you know somebody
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  Speaker 1: kept motivated you guys to get into the program and
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  Speaker 1: and go forth that's really great did your time at
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  Speaker 1: turn and what you currently do help you in your
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: master's program and what you were doing i believe so
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  Speaker 1: i mean so the work that you do today and
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  Speaker 1: that relating into your master's program you're able to bring
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  Speaker 1: stuff i would assume right into class.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. One of the professors, Dr. Tony, she would
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  Speaker 2: always tell me to share more about my life experience.
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  Speaker 2: You know, speak up. She would always tell me. That
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  Speaker 2: was always my feedback because we had to meet with them,
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  Speaker 2: all the professors or department heads or whatever, chairs or
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: something like that. And they would tell me, speak up
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  Speaker 2: more in class, Tim. You have knowledge to share it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, especially if you were with kids. You know, you're
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: with kids in class, you know, and you have all
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  Speaker 3: this You know, life wisdom. I know, Danny, I can
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  Speaker 3: see your face.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you do.
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  Speaker 3: We have wisdom.
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  Speaker 4: We're like old school, the movie old school.
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  Speaker 2: It is.
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  Speaker 3: It's the life of hard knocks, but there's a place
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  Speaker 3: for it. And I love that about TURN because there's
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  Speaker 3: a place for lived experience as a source of expertise.
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  Speaker 3: And of course, it doesn't replace academia or certification or licensure.
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  Speaker 3: It supports it. But it's so true. It's so true,
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  Speaker 3: what you have, your life experience matters It makes a
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: huge difference. I'm sure the way that you approach client
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  Speaker 3: care is much different. You're not going through a source
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  Speaker 3: of what you learned on books. You're marrying that with
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: what you already know.
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  Speaker 4: My experience, and I'm glad that you brought that up,
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: this question, Jim, because it's my experience I I was
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: going into my master's program leaning into that life experience
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  Speaker 4: and I came out of it really learning a lot
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: from the the younger generations coming up and how tech
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: savvy they are and how research um clever very clever
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: and their ability to access information and organize and I
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: was really kind of like a sponge picking up from
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: them and that's That was my intention going into this
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: program is not to be the old guy that's in
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: class that knows it all, has all the answers because
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: I've got the 20 years experience and not to roll
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: my eyes when I hear like the crusader in the
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: back of the room with all the textbook answers, but
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: to really merge myself into bringing that life experience with
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: today's current knowledge, today's current research. evidence-based and really come
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: out as the best possible version of a professional and
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: a personal me that i can and that that was
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: i feel like i mean we were in classes together
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: and stuff i feel like that was my intention was
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: to not come across as like that way with our cohort.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Did the did the youth in the class gravitate towards
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: you guys because.
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: I had some of them you did yeah that's awesome yeah.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: That was a good cohort. I think it was a
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: good mixture also. In the grad program, it was a
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: mixture of people of all ages. There's the younger crowd
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: and everything, but we all were close together. Like most
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: of them, we still stay connected a little bit the
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: best we can through Instagram or through social media.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: And I think you mentioned that at some point in time,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: maybe even during your bachelor's program, where you were able
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: to share your lived experience with the classroom and, and
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: what was that like for you and what, how was
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: it received by the other classmates when they heard the story?
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Some of my bachelor's program, not so much. Um, I
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: will give a shout out to, uh, project rebound when
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: I was in my undergrad, because those were the people
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: I can actually relate it to. It's a program for
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: people who, uh, prior incarceration. And so I got to
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: be a part and hang out with them. I felt
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: more connected with, and I'm so glad that they had
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: that club at SDSU, especially for my undergrad, because I
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: did not really have too much in common with the
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: other people there. And the master's program, that's where we
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: had a lot of people who have a lot of
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: similarities of us, but then it was such a wide,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: diverse crowd of people. Uh, there was people who are
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: also in recovery, have lived experience. Then there was also
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: people who just graduated, so I can actually share a
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: little bit of both on their sides. And, um, I
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: like the focus in our program of disabilities. And so
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: we had people from multiple different types of disability backgrounds.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Like I worked with, like some, some students worked with
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: people with autism and, and I got to bring, you know,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I work with people with psych disabilities. mental health and
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: substance use, which is more of a psych disability. And
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: so we get to share all of our information and
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: come up together to actually develop interesting topics. We got
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: to talk a lot. You can see I get excited
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: when I get on a topic I like.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Because you're doing it during the day and then you're
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: bringing it in the afternoon back to the classroom, which
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: had to be hugely beneficial for everybody in the classroom
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: to hear from both of you.
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  Speaker 4: And it's... It's interesting, Tim, when you bring that up.
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  Speaker 4: The first place I go to is just how much
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: we learned about not just disability and the stigma of it,
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: but just looking at it from the lens of a
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: person who's living with a disability in everyday life. If
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: there was one thing that I can take away from
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: that three years on that track, was aside from learning
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: about cognitive disabilities and neurodivergence and helping people get back
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: into the workforce and the importance of purpose for people,
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: purpose and access, it goes back to what we always
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: talk about in our line of work, which is overcoming stigma,
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: having an empathic lens, looking through the lens of somebody
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: who's living whose life you know, the barriers that they're
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: dealing with. So it goes back to get out of
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: school Monday night, Tuesday, I'm at a program, visiting a program,
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: and I want to know what the first day, you know,
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: walk me through what that first day of a client
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: here at this program is like. You know, who's greeting
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: them when they walk in? Who's picking them up? What
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: resources are we accessing? It's fresh off of my mind
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: because we just spent four hours talking about this. And,
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: and imagining.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: To take that application right back into the field.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Amazing. Right.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, cause you're, you're, you're right away using what
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: you just talked about the night before and helping somebody
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: improving lives.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's like shooting out of a cannon every,
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: every day, the next day at a, after a class,
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: you know, it really helps with your mindset and getting
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: into that empathic approach. But what I think the higher
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: education does is also provides you with the resources because motive,
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: motivation and mindset is really, really great. But if you're
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: able to provide the resource to go with that, then
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: you can really be a part of something special.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: And you talked about, you know, empathy, which is so important.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: And I think one of the things that we talk
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: about and we see quite often is folks with lived
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: experience recovery, um, have a frame, right? And it's that you,
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: like you were saying earlier, Tim, you saw yourself in
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: Project Rebound clients or the students who were there from
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: former incarceration. And so you saw yourself. And I think
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: sometimes that's what gives us a little bit of not
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: an advantage, but a place to connect with the clients
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: because we see ourselves in them and they can see
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: themselves in us. And there's nothing wrong with anyone entering
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: this field through sheer academia, absolutely 100%. But I think
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: there's that way that you can lean in that offers
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: empathy and a knowing. And sometimes that's what our clients need.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Maybe you're that voice that they need to hear, just
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: like that professor was for you both, that she reached
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: you through something she said. And both of you had
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: mentioned because she had offered up her lived experience.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Really terrific. Really terrific. Thank you for that. How about
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: we're going to turn the conversation a little bit. Tell
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: our listeners, each of you, and choose who goes first,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: about your role at TURN and the communities that you serve.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: So my first role was an intern. I started as
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: an intern at East County Center for Change. I got
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: lucky that I ended up there, too. I did not
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: have any AOD classes right before my internship. So I
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: missed out on the fair and everything. So I got
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: a list. I just went down this. I saw MHS
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: and I was like, I've been there before. I won't
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: tell why, but that looks familiar. So I sent it
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: out to emails to everyone. Roxy hit me up, got
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: me on as an intern. And then I got hired
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: on as a recovery advocate. Then I got promoted to
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: a counselor. Then I got promoted to a lead counselor.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Then I got a chance to become a program manager.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: And I was a little scared to leave my comfort
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: zone at being at East County Center of Change because
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: I was there for so long until this guy, he
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: kind of gave me a secret push. He's like, why
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: haven't you applied yet? He told me about the job,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: then told me to apply. And then I didn't apply.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: And he's like, why haven't you applied? So I applied,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: and then I got to become a program manager at
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Action Central, which was one of the only integrated co-occurring, well,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: partially integrated, closest integration we could get in our system
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: of care in San Diego County, and I loved it.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, I got to work with some co-occurring clients
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: who have severe mental illness and severe substance use, chronic homelessness,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: and that's my population. You know, Drug Court, Justice Evolved,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: and then Action Central. co-occurring and I was yeah I
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: can't tell how much happy I was just being able
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: to run a program with my vision on what you
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: know treatment should look like I know I was surprised.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: When I got told you were leaving East County Center
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: for Change I said really why but I heard you
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: were moving up and moving on so I was really
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: happy for you because you were a fixture at East
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: County Center for Change and did a great job over
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: there so I can remember, I think the first time
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I met you and I always, when I met Roxy,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: East County Center for Change was right off Second Street,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I think it was, in El Cajon, in that small.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Little building over there.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: It was behind the gas station and everything.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Right by the freeway.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: And I said, hey, we need to move this someplace.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: We got to get this thing out. It was like
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: really tiny and tight and, you know, you had to
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: walk down the aisles but you know great on your
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: growth how about you danny what about sharing about your
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: communities and what you do for turn.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: Well i love that tim went all the way back
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: because that's that's such a big part of who i
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: am today is where i started and and uh you
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: know my story of uh how i got to mental
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: health systems now now turn um was a series of
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: events and started with getting my life together and going
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: to a residential program and being inspired by a counselor
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: at this residential program called Crash and this counselor really
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: shined the light in a time of desperation when I
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: wanted to leave and I wanted to give up on
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: myself and I wanted to quit and I wanted to
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: go back to what was comfortable to me which was
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: going back out onto active addiction and onto the streets
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: and without even making any effort but just connecting with
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: me and letting me know that she cared, I stayed
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: for one more day and I stuck it out. And
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: I completed that program. And it was that connection, it
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: was that, I won't say necessarily that moment, but it
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: was that moment with her. Her name was Teresa. And
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: she inspired me to want to be something bigger than me.
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: And I was actively involved in the self-help community, and
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: I was doing the work, the internal work that it
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: takes to get out of self and to understand there's
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: something bigger going on besides Danny. But I was really
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: motivated to go back to school because I found my tribe.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: It's like, you know what, these are my people. There's
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: people coming out. I was a little bit further along
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: in the program. I stuck it out. I started finding
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: my sense of belonging. And it was just all within
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: that crash community in the early 2000s that pointed me
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: in a direction that led me to go back to school.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: You know, it's that one person, Teresa, that puts you
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: on the path. And look where you're at today. I
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: think that is just truly amazing for both of you, right?
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Somebody at that moment flipped a switch for you and said, no,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I'm going to stick this out and I'm going to
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: go all the way. And that's what both of you
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: have done. And now you're giving back, which is just,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: it happens to us over and over again at TURN
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Behavioral Health Services where we're always giving back. So I
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: commend both of you for what you do and every
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: day for our communities and just within TURN ourselves. So
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: really good. Tim, what brought you first to the behavioral
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: health field? What was your first?
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: So when I... started in recovery, um, and you know,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: got my act together. I had a choice of, I
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: was thinking about like, cause I was wanting to, I
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: always say go back to school, but I had like
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: two college classes. So I started school and my choices
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: were computers or, uh, treatment and computers. You can make money, um, treatment.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: You can make, uh, you know, internal field goods. And so, um,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: that's what I started in. And then, um, I think
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: the biggest thing was when I was trying to find
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: treatment myself, it was really hard and difficult for me.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: From my lived experience, I was homeless. I didn't even
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: have cell phones before you could get a free cell
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: phone and stuff like that. So I remember trying to
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: get different type of programs that are like, we'll call
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: every morning. I was like, I can't. Do you want
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: me to camp outside here? One place actually took me
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: in and that was a methadone clinic. And so I
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: got a methadone, which saved me from always having to
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: use every day. But now I got another barrier. I
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: can't go to residential programs because I'm on methadone. And
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: that's how it was back then. You know, I'm like, oh,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: you're on methadone? We can't take you. And so I just,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: I guess the short answer is spite kind of got
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: me into treatment because I decided that this was not
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: the right way to do it. And I want to
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: be able to help change it to how it's kind
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: of working today. And I think we have come a
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: long way from when I was first trying to get
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: into it. So computers are fun, but doing this is
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: way better. You were always an.
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: Early pioneer advocate of Medicaid-assisted treatment within the justice population.
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: I love the way that you remove those barriers for clients.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: One of the things that we talk about a lot
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: is how our clients don't show up with one convenient diagnosis.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: They don't just show up with alcoholism or drug addiction.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: There's usually very compounding elements at play. So whether it's
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: mental illness or whether it's somebody who is on medication-assisted treatment.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: And it very much used to be siloed. And you'll
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: still find those barriers today. We all know it. But
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: trying to get past that so that we can actually
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: treat the whole person, right? So why don't you guys
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: tell us a little bit about how you take that
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: whole person into account? How has your graduate school and
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: your lived experience impacted the way or shaped the way
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: that you provide client care today?
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's an excellent question. I'm glad that you
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: brought that up. And if we have couple more hours
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: we can can really really do a seminar on this
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: but uh to really i think you you hit it
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: on the on the nail windy when you talk about
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: the whole person it's it's really our job as providers
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: you know on our side of the of the the
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: seat or to understand you know where they're coming from
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: the to understand and assume that there's trauma involved uh
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: to to assume that there's more things going on than
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: what they're letting you know. We're talking about layers of
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: family dynamics. There's cultural considerations to take into place. There's
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: physical disabilities. There's hidden disabilities like learning disabilities and how
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: that plays a role in somebody's confidence in themselves and
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: getting back into the workforce or going back to school.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: There's the social stigmas. There's the gender issues. And the
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: different things that the world, the messages that the world
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: is showing our youth and our children. I don't want
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: to start going too deep into it, but this person
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: walks into it. We have two minutes, five minutes to
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: prove to them that we're here for them and to
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: gain that trust so that we can keep them there.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Is it that short a period of time that you
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: have to grab them in that two to five minutes
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: to keep them there?
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: It's just that they can be there for 18 months
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: but not ever be there, Jim. The authenticity, our clients,
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: our population can read a room and can read a
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: person and can tell if you're for real or not
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: within seconds. That's how they survive. We know that because
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: we were that. And that was our... One job in
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: life was to survive, and some of us did it
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: differently than others, but the one thing that we all
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: have something in common is being able to read people
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: and figure out, are you for real or not? You know,
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: don't sit there and tell me that you're here for
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: me and you care when you're on your computer sending emails. Like,
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: people pick up on that pretty quick.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: You know, Jennifer and Sharon shared that same thing, what
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: you just shared and the other podcasts that we had
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: with both of them. Both shared that, that. the ability
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: to read somebody right away and know that they're going
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: to be there for them, which is a big issue.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, going back to the whole person, it's just
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: really got to leave all of our stuff at the
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: door and try to be as most present. And it's
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: a lot easier said than done. I mean, anybody can
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: go on a podcast and talk about being fully refreshed
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: and mentally ready to serve clients, but that's the big struggle,
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: isn't it, is going from one to another bringing everything
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: that we got going on in our lives, putting down
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: that phone, focusing and locking in because once they're in,
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: there's no turning back. That's why we're here is for
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: that experience.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: Like you said, taking out the biases though too, not
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: making assumptions because yes, our clients are going to pick
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: up on it in probably two minutes, right? And they're
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: going to know, but we also have to check our
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: biases at the door as well. So when somebody walks in,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: I need to make sure that I'm not making a
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: two-minute assessment and not giving that person enough space and
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: time to come forward because fear is the fundamental block.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: And if we can understand that, then we can you know,
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: allow space and time.
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: So let them be the authors of their own stories.
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, and also be authentic, you know,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: like people, like you're saying, people pick up on stuff.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: They're going to know you're having a bad day and
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: that's okay. You know, like, you know, and I don't know,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: just being truthful and show integrity and what you're going
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: to do and everything like that and being authentic. Um,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Definitely picks up. And then always check your biases. I
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: like the saying that if you think you don't have
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: a bias, then you're biased. Yeah, there you go. Because
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: everyone has a bias. There's unconscious biases. That's right. One
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: of my favorite classes in my undergrad is social psychology
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: where we talked about different cultures, biases, stereotypes, prejudices.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: Privilege.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: Knowing our privileges.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: And understanding that.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: I'm, you know, we're lucky knowing how it affects us.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: But also I like the way you bring about the
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: whole person situation. If we got to heal the whole person,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: which people always think, oh my gosh, I shouldn't make assumptions.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: We know you got to treat the mental health and
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: addiction at the same time. You know, like if you can't,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: you can't do one and the other and then like, okay,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: now you're ready to go to this other side. I
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: also like to believe, and the research has shown, you
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: also got to take care of the body because all
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: this junk down here into organs and everything is to
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: take care of this up here because this is where
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: your conscience is going to come from. So if your
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: body is not healthy, this is going to affect. And
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: then some of the research shows that the best way
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: to get through those pause, the post acute withdrawal syndromes
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: is food, diet, exercise, and sleep. Oh, don't forget sleep.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Sleep is the big one too.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: No, that's right. I mean, a hundred percent. And you know,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: our clients, um, have, years, and we know this, we
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: know this, but we'll just say our clients have years
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: of neglect, neglecting health, medical and dental care. And so
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: it is very hard to engage in treatment if I'm
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: the client and I've got acute dental pain going on.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: It is very hard when I want to climb out
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: of my skin because I'm you know, having all kinds
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: of pain symptoms. It's very hard. So when we talk
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: about helping people address the basic needs so that then
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: we can help them to engage in the process. But that's, again,
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: you can't make an assumption that because somebody looks a
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: certain way, you know, we have to be able to
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: ask the questions. You know, when is the last time
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: you've been to your primary doctor? Do you have a
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: primary doctor? When's the last time you received dental care?
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: And all those kinds of things. So It's a really
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: good point, Tim.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Especially with dental care.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Teeth are so important and we forget about them when
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: we're out there. Right. Literally.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Well, Danny, Tim, and my co-host, this is a, you know,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: exciting conversation. But before we go further, probably take a
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: quick pause right here and talk about the brief. And
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: the brief is where we highlight programs, policies, and emerging
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: trends that are shaping behavioral health. So we'll be right
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: back with our audience in a few minutes. Today, I
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: want to highlight National Recovery Month, Suicide Prevention Month. One
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: message remains consistent across behavioral health as we recognize these
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: in September. Recovery is possible. And now I'm going to
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: turn it over to my co-host, Wendy, who is one
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: of the leading experts in recovery. Wendy? Yep.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Jim. And guys, one of the things that
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: we love doing is celebrating milestones in recovery. And like,
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: we get to hear some of your story today and
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: we always allow our clients that same process. I mean,
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: both of you have spoken about drug courts and we
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: love that, right? We recognize the clients coming across the
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: stage and the judge and all that. So maybe you
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: could share with the audience, why is that important? Why
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: is hearing people's recovery stories and celebrating milestones such a
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: key cornerstone of recovery?
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: I think it's the inspirational impact it has on people,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: seeing them, um, I remember when I would go to
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: my first 12-step meetings and you see that person taking
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: a year and you're like, oh my God, they have
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: a whole year. Here I have like a day or two.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: And then seeing that person take 10 years, seeing that
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: person take 30 years. And then one of the cool
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: things about Drug Court is the countdown too. And we
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: all get to see all the time we have. And
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: I think the inspirational impact. And just, you know, like
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: that guy who's taking 30 days, that's a big deal.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: You know, that's the hard one. Me taking a 10-year,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: that was not as hard as taking that 30-day trip.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: You know, I think everybody that works for us should
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: go to a drug court graduation and see it and
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: experience it and be there for the countdown. They're so moving.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Grinds my feet in the ground every time I get
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: to go to it. a graduation, and then I walk
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: out of there and I go, I know why I'm
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: doing the job that I do as CEO every day.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: It's for everybody in that room. That's what's so great.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: That's... At Center Star, I'm getting people. I told them
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: about the graduation that's going to be coming up. And
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: I'm like, are you coming with me? You got to
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: see it. It's awesome. You never see anything like it. So, yeah,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I tell people all the time.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great.
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: There's definitely a pull. It's an attraction. And the way
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: I best describe it, what it is that I'm feeling,
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: it reminds me of this. It's a saying or concept.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: It's not necessarily a poem, but it's a saying about
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: the addict that's in the hole. And it's a contribution
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: to every person because everybody plays a role. The professional,
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: the clergy, the family, everybody plays a role. But if
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: you imagine there's an addict in a hole and he
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: can't get out, 10-foot hole, no ladder, no rope. And
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: during the course of a day, different people are standing
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: down and looking down at him, the psychiatrist. What are
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: you doing down there?
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: How can I help?
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: The addict starts to tell their story. Psychiatrist says, okay,
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: the hour's up. Well, I'll be back next week. The doctor,
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: what can I prescribe for you? It sounds like we
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: can do something there. Doctor leaves, prescription. The therapist, same thing.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: Tell me a little bit about your story. Where'd you
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: come from? How does that make you feel? all very helpful.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: And the addict in recovery comes along, a person that's
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: got some time under their belt, like 10 years. What
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: are you doing down in that hole? The person says,
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: I've been down here for quite some time now. I
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: don't know how to get out. And then he jumps
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: in the hole with them.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: So what are you doing? What did you just do?
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: I know the way. Let's get out of here. And
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: it's that story of one addict or one alcoholic or
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: one person in recovery or one person with that life
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: experience that's struggling that knows all of those those little
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: details of what it takes because someone helped them and
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: that's that pull that's that attraction that's that power of
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: one person helping another with that life experience and that's
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: what i think people feel and see when we're all
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: laughing at stuff that you don't normally laugh about when
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: it's people's you know traumatic Examples of their stories, like
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: what Tim and I were cracking up about a few
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: minutes ago, that's humorous to us because we know what
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: that was like. And now we can look back and
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: we're one of the lucky ones that gets to look
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: back and laugh about it now. But that one always
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: stays with me and why it's always important to surround
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: yourself around. Like Tim's talking about finding his tribe with
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: the folks at the San Diego State. Project Rebound, find
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: your tribe, people that you can identify with, people that, no,
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: don't even need to talk about it sometimes. You know,
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: Tim and I, sometimes it's just understood.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: I think the other thing when I listen to you
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: guys talk about recovery is that there's the crossover from
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: what you've gone through to help other people and to
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: help other young men or young women that are struggling,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: maybe not in addiction, but what you've been through to
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: be able to share that with people and help them
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: with their challenges in day-to-day life and getting through those challenges,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: like you said, the addict and the whole, right? And
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: so that's a perfect example because a lot of kids
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: get stuck, right? Or young men and young women get stuck,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: come out of college. What am I going to do now, right?
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: And so there's maybe, can you describe that at all?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Is there a crossover after you've been through recovery? And
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: when you look at somebody else that's struggling, maybe you
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: even met someone at the.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: College when you were there.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: And we're able to help coach them in some way
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: or share your thoughts with them about getting through recovery.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Is there a crossover there?
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I remember this one presentation. I had to
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: deal with the communications. They wanted us to bring something
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: and to admit something to us. So I brought my
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: court paperwork from my expungement. And so, like I said,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: this is important to me because this is my expungement.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: This shows like, you know, here's what my past was.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: And now I don't, you know, I got expunged. There
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: was a sheriff, a deputy in my class with me
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: who worked at the courthouse, and he shared about how it's.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: was so awesome to see what happens at the end.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: All he sees is people going to jail. He just
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: sees the horror part of it. And so he was
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: so thankful. He was a military vet also. He was
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: a deputy. And we became friends during the class, which
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: usually my people don't become friends with the cops. So
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: there's crossovers, and I think it just shows inspiration. I mean,
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: it's usually... It's someone to kick me a little bit
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: to share my story too. I'm not always so open,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: but when someone tells me to open up and I
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: start opening up, you can kind of see the inspiration
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: and other people kind of see it.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, I've never heard a graduate go across
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: the stage, nor have I ever sat in a room
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: and listened to someone take a token and ever say,
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: I'm so glad I was able to do this by myself.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: I'm so glad I am that strong that I figured
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: this out. I've never heard that. The only way we
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: get through it is together. You say, you know, find
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: your tribe. In my circle, we call it, you know,
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: staying in the middle of the herd. But, you know,
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: you're never alone. You just don't ever survive this thing
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: by yourself. You stay, you know, basically stuck. If you
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: try to strong arm it or do it, do it along, right?
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: So.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's... Oh, go ahead. No, go.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: I was just going to say... I was going to say,
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: you know, you bring up, I think you gave the example, Tim,
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: you know, you're watching someone take a 10-year token and
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: you've got a day or a one year and you're
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: just amazed that somebody had one year. You know, I
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: am sure that there's going to be at least one
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: audience member today that is listening to, you know, 20
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: plus years, 13?
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: A dozen. Yeah. Give or take. Yeah. Okay.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: We've got some years.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: We've got some years in the room. And that person
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: is thinking to themselves, they're lying. There's no way they
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: have that much time. Or they're thinking, that's so far
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: from my reality. All I'm thinking about is how do
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: I get until one o'clock today without taking a drink?
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: Or I promised my kids I wasn't going to miss something.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know how I'm going to do it without
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: having a glass of wine first or whatever it is.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: So what do you guys say to those people or
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: that one person, right? We don't care if it's one
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: person that we can help today. What's that message?
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: Every time I think about something like this, the only
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: thing that I can go to is my experience and
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: my message to the person if they're in that dark places,
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: instead of you can do it, you know, things that
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: would come across as something that anybody can say, I
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: can just go to willing to sit down and share
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: my experience with you. And there was a time 24
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: years ago where I was on a rooftop in Seacoast
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: Drive in Imperial Beach with my feet dangling over the
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: edge of a 10-story renovated building where I was in
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: the middle of the night, 3 in the morning, ready
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: to jump. Mm-hmm. And obviously I didn't jump, but that
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: was a very dark moment in my life and I
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: was in my active addiction. And instead of jumping, I
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: got up and decided that I was going to start
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: breaking into things and committing crimes, which led to me
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: getting arrested that night, which led to a couple court
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: hearings and a sentence and a mandated treatment option. And
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: that's changed the trajectory of my life. But in that moment,
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: I was riding the trolley. I was figuring out ways
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: to jump on trolleys. And I was able to look
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: down the trolley, inside the trolley, through the windows to
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: see if the trolley cops were coming. And we had
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: the system where we can jump off before they jumped on.
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: And we were able to ride around San Diego for free.
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: And the survival that it takes to be on the street.
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: every trolley stop you're already assessing the parking lot situation
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: for people that are smoking cigarettes so you can bum
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: a smoke off somebody you're looking for the other people
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: that are that are possibly you know scandalous that might
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: be no good and stay away from you have the
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: whole situation assessed and at the same time i didn't
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: have the self-esteem to even go inside of vons because
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: i felt like i was that big of a low
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: life and and that's what the story you know that
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: That's what I was telling myself as I was sitting
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: on that roof. I was like, who would miss me
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: if I jump?
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: We would have missed you. Who would miss me?
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: And so if somebody's feeling that way, I can share
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: my experience with them and tell them, yes, I got arrested. Yes,
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: things didn't go my way in court. Yes, I was
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: held accountable. But that accountability led for me to get
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: onto the path where I was able to meet that counselor, Teresa.
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: who encouraged me without even saying it to stay one
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: more day at CRASH so I can get up the
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: next day and go, this is where I belong.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: And that sometimes is the thing. The lowest point is
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: the intervention. And so when we talk about rock bottom,
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: if you will, there is an example what you would
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: think back on and just be like, I can't even
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: believe I was that close. But through that action, Through
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: that darkest time came your intervention to hope, recovery, carrying
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: the message, and impacting that listener today. So that person
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: knows you are walking the walk and talking the talk.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: You know you've been there, no doubt.
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: Never forget where I come from.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: At least once a year I go back to that spot.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: To the building?
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: To that building.
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: And I've even taken my 10-year-old son there and showed him.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: I learned something new about you today, Danny. I hadn't
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: heard that version before.
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: It's all the way down at the end of Seacoast
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: Drive where the rocks, those big boulders on the rocks
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: and stuff, there's those renovated buildings there. And all I
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: was doing was just looking for a place to hide
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: out in the middle of the night. But that was
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: that place, and I revisited it. So when I see people,
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: and I see myself, And when I see myself in
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: someone that's struggling, whether if it's mental health, substance use,
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: active addiction, the first thing I got to do is
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: take my place to that spot to remind myself of
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: what I felt like then before I even, you know,
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: I don't want to lecture. I don't want to do
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: anything more but just say, hey, do you got a minute?
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: And share my experience and hope that that would be
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: enough to keep them going.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Question real quick. Do you ever, well, thank you for
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: sharing that, by the way. Do you ever see Teresa,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: that woman?
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: I haven't seen her in 10 or 12 years, but, man,
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: do I talk about her a lot.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you have. I can see it when you mention
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: her name.
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: Some of those counselors at CRASH are still there today, Kevin, Edward,
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: my counselor, Bill. So if you're a CRASH grad, you
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: know what I'm talking about.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Who believes? Who believes?
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: You were at crash and early in.
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: Your career well i was uh i was the program
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: director at the men's residential but that was back in
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: oh yeah yeah yeah i don't even know 98 maybe
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: so i think i was there before you got there
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: and and had right went from there to uh to
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: the hospital mental health systems yeah.
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah i went to the i was at the fifth the.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: Fifth floor okay i worked on marlboro.
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: We had Providence Place right underneath us.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember that because, yep.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Well, I think for our audience today, I need to
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: highlight this. With Danny, 22 years. With you, 13 years.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: With Wendy, 38 years in recovery. That totals 73 years
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: between the three of you. I think that's simply amazing.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: I think that's just tremendous. All that you guys have
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: been through together.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Wendy, anything to add to that?
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, with 38 years in recovery, you've shared some
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: of your stories every now and then.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, I just think that the commitment to carrying
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: the message, you know, it's just the commitment. And I think,
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: you know, we will know that one thing that's important
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: to me is that no matter what, people know it's
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: not the number of years that gives you recovery, right?
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: It gives you the presence. It gives you, you know,
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: the day, the one day that you have is the
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: day that you have. And all we have in here
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: is today. I have, what, I've been up since about
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: five this morning. So I have a few hours under
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: my belt by all intents and purposes. And I think
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: when we come at it from a humble space, a
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: respectful place, a grateful place, that's really what grounds us in.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Anything to share, Tim?
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: When you're sharing about the we, that's what I love
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: about the word we. I don't always share my story
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: with all the clients, but the way I kind of
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: self-disclose that I love to do is I say when
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: we get in a situation, in a situation, I say
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: we a lot, because that just kind of like slowly
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: puts it out there like I understand.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Well, anything to add with Suicide Prevention Month, Wendy?
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: Well, I just think it's our responsibility to raise awareness.
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: And I want to say that, you know, Danny shared
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: a little bit about his story, you know, sitting on
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: the edge of a building at the brink and that
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: I want our, and I know we want our audience today,
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: the takeaway is you never have to do it alone.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: We're here for you. And if not us, there's other organizations.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: We've heard of some good organizations today as well. It
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter where you get help. It doesn't matter where
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: it is, just that you get help. And, um, you know,
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: we honor that it's also a recovery month and we
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: understand why we celebrate and it's always to carry the
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: message to the newcomer, the person that's still struggling.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to add on if you're feeling like
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: thoughts of wanting to kill yourself or harm yourself, you
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: can always call 988. That's an emergency mental health line,
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: and they will have someone there to talk to you.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: And if needed, someone will come out and meet with you.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's terrific. That's really terrific. And I think as
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: we highlight Suicide Prevention Month, I can't think of a
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: more relevant time to feature a word from our Courage
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: to Call program for veterans and active military veterans. The
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: reports are in 2024 that 6,000 veterans died by suicide.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: So Courage to Call provides support to current and former
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: service members and their families. And now a brief word
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: from Courage to Call.
• 51:05
  Speaker 5: Improving lives every day and in every way for Californians.
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: This is the mission of TURN Behavioral Health Services. By
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: focusing on wellness, recovery, and resilience, TURN is helping create
• 51:18
  Speaker 5: lasting change especially for our military community. If you're active duty,
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: a veteran, reservist, regardless of military status or part of
• 51:28
  Speaker 5: a military family in San Diego, support is here. Courage
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: to Call is a free confidential helpline staffed by veterans
• 51:37
  Speaker 5: who understand military life. From 8 a.m. to 8 p.m.,
• 51:41
  Speaker 5: you can connect with peer-to-peer specialists who are ready to listen, guide,
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: and help on the very first call. Struggling with mental health?
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: food insecurity, finances, housing, you don't have to face it alone.
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: Call 877-698-7838. That's 877-698-7838. Courage to Call will answer your call.
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: Courage to Call is a program of Turn Behavioral Health Services,
• 52:09
  Speaker 5: improving lives every day in every way.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Behavioral Health Brief. I'm Jim Callahan. Dr.
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: Wendy Broughton.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: And let's talk about purpose and passion since it's so
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: evident in both of you. What I come away with
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: today that I think is really, really poignant is your
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: stories could be shared with a lot of young men
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: who may be out there struggling. I have a son
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: right now who just called me this morning and was
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: struggling and said, Dad, I need to talk to you.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: I'm really struggling with this thing. And I'm going to
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: recommend to him that he watch this program as it
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: comes out because your stories are so compelling about breaking
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: down barriers, about all the challenges that you face.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: And I commend both of you.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: And just really terrific what you're sharing today. I think
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: it really can cross over to young men who might
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: be struggling out there, who may be dabbling with addiction.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: And so I think that's really terrific work. Wendy?
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think that is such an important
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: point that you bring up. And I think, Danny, you
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: mentioned it earlier around gender and gender differences. And it's
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: not that there's one treatment application fits all, right? We
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: know that men are socialized a certain way. So provide,
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: get to work. Your value is what you bring. Women
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: are socialized to be relational. And so how you feel
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: matters to me. Not that it doesn't matter to men,
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: but there's just a difference in how men are raised.
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: And you make a good point. So I think one
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: of the things that occurs to me with what Jim
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: said is men are taught to be stoic. You pull
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: yourself up by your bootstraps. You don't share your feelings.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: You certainly don't express your emotions. But when you do
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: that long enough and you suppress all that, it's going
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: to come out sideways. It's going to come out somewhere.
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: And that could take the form of addiction, crime, and
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: any manner of maladaptive coping skills. So I just think
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: that's super important. So what do you guys think about
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: being examples for men and the hurdles and barriers that
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: men in particular are facing?
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: Well, for me, I feel like you bring up so
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: many good points. It's the reason why men generally die
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: before women. Our lifespan. It's why our suicides are more violent.
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: It's why the only... At least for the Western culture,
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: the only expression that we're socialized that it's okay to
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: show is anger. And as we've learned, anger is a
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: secondary emotion. So if I had any kind of a message,
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: it would be to any mentors to.
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: Any person that's around the younger generation, to encourage them
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: to express their emotions, to encourage them that it's okay
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: to talk about what's going on. That stigma of just
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: suck it up and tough it out, that's what gets
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: us as men because we're viewed as weak and replaceable.
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: If I say, Jim, you hurt my feelings the other day. Well,
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: in some social circles, you're teased and ridiculed. You know,
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: especially as a young second grader on the schoolyard.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: And, you know, that's the biggest thing for me. And
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: the best way I can do it is instead of saying, Jim,
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: it's okay to share how you feel. I'm going to
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: share how I feel. I'm going to role model that
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: for you. I'm going to shock the room by saying, hey, Wendy,
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: that hurt my feelings. So when people start to see
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: a man speak up like that, especially... a person who's
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: confident in themselves and can carry themselves in any room,
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: it changes the narrative. And that's what we need our
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: young men and our young boys to start to see
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: is that example.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: I grew up exactly how you described that. That's how
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: I was raised, right? Put on the boots, pull up
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: your boots, quit whining, get back out on the field,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: get back out on the field of life, right? Everybody
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: experiences it. And don't share your feelings on the way.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: right how about you tim.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: I was just thinking people should know that you don't
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: have to be alone you know that's another way that
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: that um feeds into addiction stuff like that you feel
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: like you can't talk to anyone you know you don't
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: have to you know there's people out there ready to
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: listen but i think danny said it perfectly they got
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: you got a role model um it was i remember
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: i did this uh uh I went to a junior
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: high school and talked about my job before. What is
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: it called? Job fair day or something. I can't remember.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: But a kid asked me, I want to learn in
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: junior high school or what's needed to learn. And I said,
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: learn how to express emotions, emotional regulation. We need to
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: be able to actually talk about feelings. Because like I
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: was saying, Jim, that's kind of how I grew up too.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: We don't talk about that. Get back on the horse,
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: you know? Oh, run it off. You know, that was
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: the biggest thing. You stub your toe, run it off.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: You're okay.
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: Rub some dirt in it.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: You're bleeding?
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: You know, and it's okay to have other emotions. It's
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: all right. I like how Danny said, you know, you
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: hurt my feelings. It reminds me of this time I
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: took my friend to a baseball game recently, and I
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: apologized for something I did like 11 years ago. I said,
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: and you called me out on it. And I appreciate that.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: And he was like, I have no idea what you're
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: talking about, Tim. And so it stuck with me, but
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: he does not remember. And we both, we did treatment
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: together at one of these places we keep talking about, Crash,
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: where we had Teresa as a counselor too. And so
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: that might've been where we learned it.
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: That's what I love about listening to you is I've
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: seen you in real time make amends and clean up
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: your side of the street. And And I believe that's
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: another gift that the self-help community offers us, that work.
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: We're all, if you stick around long enough and you
• 58:32
  Speaker 4: do the work, we're trained to look within and to
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: find it.
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: They give you tools to live in your own skin, right?
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: And make things right. There you go.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: And clean up what you've left behind.
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: That's it.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not perfect.
• 58:47
  Speaker 5: Right, right.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: Well, this has been terrific today, guys.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: Really terrific.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: I've learned so much from both of you today. Really exciting.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: But we're at a point now for community questions. So
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: we have two today. And Danny, you're up first. And
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: we have this from Amanda from Riverside. What advice would
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: you give someone who has lived experience and is thinking
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: about turning that experience into a reality? a career in
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: behavioral health?
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: Well, great question Amanda and it's such an awesome topic
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: and the best advice that I can offer is first
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: of all really glad to hear that you're inspired to
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: get into the field and just remember that once you
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: start working in the field, you're going to be forced
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: or facing a lot of other people's trauma. And so
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: it's going to bring up your stuff. And it's really
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: vital and important that especially if you have the lived
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: experience that you continue to take care of yourself and
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: you continue to do those things that you did before
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: you got into the field of separate. So in other words,
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: I think when Dr. Broughton says this the best is
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: just don't stop doing what brought you here. Don't think
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: that those treatment groups that you're facilitating, that that cognitive
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: behavioral therapy group is your personal recovery. In other words,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: we get burned out from all the experiences. And then
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: when we're burned out, we're not at our best. And
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: we start to personalize. we start to wanting to take
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: credit for client success and wanting to take blame for
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: clients downfalls and if we're taking care of ourselves outside
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: of work we'll find ourselves with a fresher perspective and
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: and then we're not burned out and we're able to
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: serve better yeah.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: That's excellent advice there's there's a um there's a saying
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: and i'm gonna paraphrase but i love it and it's
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: Don't let the life that recovery gave you get in
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: the way of your recovery life. You have to put
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: your recovery. It's just like putting your oxygen mask on first.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: You can't give away what you don't have.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: And we see it all the time. We watch people.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: It's their biggest downfall and it's filled with people with
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: personal experiences. They stop taking care of themselves and they
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: start tough. you know, going down a path that they regret.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: We've seen it in our workforce sometimes, right? We experience it.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: And then Tim, we've got one here, a community question
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: from James in San Diego. And he asks, how can
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: families best support a loved one who wants help but
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: doesn't know where to start?
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: That's a good question. It's a perfect example of like,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: If you want to help that family member get connected
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: to a treatment program, I mean, you can always look
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: up 211. There's the website and phone number. Just remember
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: to get bombarded. We're a huge county, and we're limited
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: to availability. People love what we do. There's just not
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of us, so give us some patience. You
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: can also just go on to Google, you know, straight
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: search 211. Check out San Diego County. There's tons of options.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: If you have your own insurance, you could call the
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: back of that insurance card. They will love to connect
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: you to a program because with the ACA, it's required
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: for them to get you into treatment for mental health
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: and addiction. So there's many options. Best place to start
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: is 2-1-1. I think it was on one of your
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: other shows with Luke Bergman. He said, I was at
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: that show. We need the hospitalist to step it up.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, hopefully I'm not calling them out. But like
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: if someone comes in there and they have a SED
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: of some sort or a mental health problem, they connect
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: them right then and there. Why not? You know, I
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: remember I have experience when I used to try to
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: get help. I'll go to the ER because I needed something.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: I was in bad withdrawals. And they said, damn, that sucks.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: Here's some clonidine. uh, which is like a, uh, high
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: blood pressure medicine and sent me on my way. I
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: didn't get anything. I didn't get no brochures or anything.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: Nowadays it's a little more helpful where we're going to
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: help you. You can walk into a family health center
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: program and just say, I need help.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: And they're going to help you.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: You know, that, that, that brings up a quick story
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: about Hanford when we first moved into Hanford, uh, central
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Valley up there. And I went to one of the
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: community meetings and, uh, where everybody's going around the table
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: and describing what we were doing. And we were new
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: in town. We were just standing up their first act
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: program in Hanford County. And the person that was in
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: charge of the hospital that was there heard what we do.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: And she goes, I have an office for you in
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: our emergency room and you're going to staff it and
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: I'll pay for it because they needed people there to
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: be able to deal with somebody who was coming in,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: who was in crisis rather than the emergency room. So
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: I think hospitals are trying to stand it up and
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: get better at it. But anyhow, with that, um, Danny, Tim,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: we want to thank you for being here today. Really
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: appreciate it. Learned a lot about both of you and
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: it's really warmed my heart to hear from both of
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: you and your recovery and your journey and really excited.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: But before we close, is there anything you would like
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: to share with our listeners today?
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, you don't have to be alone. Um, there's
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of good resources in standing. I think we
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: have come a long way. Um, from even when I
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: was trying to find my own way to get clean
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: to now. I mean, before then, we've definitely, San Diego County,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: the system of care is a lot better, and I
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: want to continue to make it better for our community.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: I'm born and raised in San Diego. This is my community,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: and I want to see it succeed.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: I'll just piggyback on what Tim's saying. There's so many...
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: people can play such a different role in helping no
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: matter of what area of your expertise you have something
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: to bring to the table and if you're struggling or
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: if you're feeling like you're finding yourself in that dark
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: place just know there's so many people out there that
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: want to help and if they're and the only thing
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: that we want back in return is just to see
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: you make it you know that's it and and I've
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: seen with my own two eyes, you know, because I'm
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: always assessing the situation and people's motives. And there's a
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: lot of people out there that just genuinely care about
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: other people's well-beings. Very unselfish, despite what we see on
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: social media and on the news and things. There's a
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: lot of good people out there that want to help.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: Let's find each other.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: I've really seen the growth in programs in the last
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: 10 years since I've joined TURN from when we started
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: to what we do now in each one of our communities.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: But now we're just about ready to wrap it up.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: We call this part of our program gratitude.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: I'd like to go.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: Around the room and just share. Tim, share something that
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: you're grateful for today.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: My family. I love having my family back in my life.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: I got a beautiful wife, two awesome pugs, my mom
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: and my siblings. I was even... I was grateful to
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: even share time with my dad when I was clean.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: I'm just grateful for today and grateful to be here.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: I have a whole laundry list of people that I'm
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: grateful for in my life. But to be able to
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: have the privilege of being able to sit here and
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: be asked to be a guest on such a vital
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: topic that means so much to me, and I know
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: it means so much to everybody in this room, makes me,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: it just aligns. with my North Star, so I'm grateful
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 4: for this moment and this space.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: I'm grateful that you guys are here today. What I'm
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: grateful for, not to jump in, Wendy, but just to
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: hear your stories today has brought me closer to you,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: and I'm really grateful for that because I really like
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: to be close to our employees. And when you're the CEO,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: sometimes it's hard to get close, but this has brought
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: me a lot closer to both of you and really
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: respect what you've done, so I'm really grateful for you
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: sharing today. Wendy?
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: Wendy?
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm grateful that we have a platform where
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: we can normalize discussions about suicide, addiction, recovery, families. I
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: love the question that Tim got from James in San Diego.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: And I just think, remember, this is a family disease.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: It's not just one identified patient that we plug in somewhere.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: It's a family disease. And so not just the audience,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: but the families of anyone listening. If you need help,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: there's help for all of you. And I love the
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: examples today. I think one of the things we take
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: away from today is the demonstration first. You demonstrate before
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: you ask anyone to do anything. You walk that walk.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful that we.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: Have this platform today.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you very much. And to our listeners... Thank
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: you for spending time with us today. Please like, share,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: and subscribe. I'm Jim Callahan.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: Dr.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: Wendy Bruton.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: And this has been the Behavioral Health Brief. Have a
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: great day. This has been the Behavioral Health Brief, where
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: insight meets impact.