Latest / WoT Spoilers / Outside the Gates - Knife of Dreams chapter 30 - EP503

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Outside the Gates - Knife of Dreams chapter 30 - EP503 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time spoilers podcast.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: All right, do you want to dig into this because
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: we're now over an.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Hour after all right? Yeah, So all that to say,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I have no life updates. I just have bitching about
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Mike's you're about podcast production.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: But let's be honest, we cannot We cannot end the
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: plot line about Parent rescuing Fayelle without delaying for at
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: least an hour before we started. This chapter needs to
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: be put off. It has to be. It does. It's
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: it's fate, It's it's fate. For four books, we've been
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: waiting for this chapter, and finally, finally we reunite Parent
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: and fay.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: God the most anticipated reunion in the entire I swear.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Most maybe uh.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, one of the most anticipated renions in.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: The same way that infamous and famous are related. I
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: feel like anticipated and like in anticipated need to be related. Right,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: this is the most in anticipated chapter.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Is in anticipated even a word?
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: It is? Now, I just invented that.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's reasonable, I'll take it, cannon accepted.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: It's the one that like nobody really wanted to see,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: but like there's been so much build up to it,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: and it's like the most well known, famous one that
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: like everyone talks about happening. We just didn't really care.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: We were told to care aggressively. We refused, but we
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: still were told. Some of us cared. But yes, we
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: are finally here at chapter thirty, outside the Gates, and
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: our symbol is the I yeel spear. And because we're
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: gonna kill us some creepy rape abusy a salty weirdos
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: who are I here, We're gonna kill them.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: I like his little They pinch butts, so they should
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: be killed. Part of this.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: It's like, wait a minute, that's not but yes, it
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: is a disproportionate spot to smash a man's head in.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: It is slightly disproportionate.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: But why yes, yes, given everything else, there's a good
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: reason for it. But yeah, it does. It does feel
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: a little bit like, oh wow, that was oh okay.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Like just in like like he thought we were gonna
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: let them get redeemed, Like no, no, no, we weren't.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Like Karen literally killed the man who kidnapped his wife.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: He didn't explicitly know that, but he killed Roland in
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: the spirit of the thing that Roland literally did. So
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: like we all felt fine about it. We didn't need
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: the butt pinching to make us want him dead like
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: that seemed like an unnecessary flourish at the end. But
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: whatever should I read us in?
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Please read us in to outside the gates.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, in to outside the gates. Okay, that makes so
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: much sense.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Fayo tried to estimate the time by the slant of
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: light falling through gaps in the ruined building overhead. It
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: seemed still short of noon. All that had been cleared
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: was a small space at the very top of the
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: basement stairs. Any of them could have passed through it
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: if they dared to try climbing the slanted pile of
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: black and rubble, but that still looked as though it
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: might fall in any moment. The tangled heap still creaked
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: alarmingly at times. The only good thing was that it
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: had not started raining on their heads. How long that
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: would last was a question. She had been hearing thunder
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: for some time, quite a lot of it, and slowly
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: coming closer. The booms were almost continuous. A storm that
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: fierce might be enough to make the building finish collapsing light.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: She was thirsty mood, Fayel, I too am thirsty. That's
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: all I'm going to read that was somehow the most
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: mentally demanding thing I've ever done.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: That's yeah, some of those sentences are a little awkwardly formed.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: I can see that. I can see that. So, yeah,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: three brotherless, But like I don't really understand why that's
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: too many. I guess because they can't get away. That's
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: enough to like turn them over.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it's three brotherless is enough to kill, incapacitate whatever,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: all of the Guyshine is the assumption because Fayel doesn't
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: know there's a battle happening, right, you know that the
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: brotherless have decided today is the day and they're bouncing
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: and also parent, the parent avalanche has Yeah, exactly exactly.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: She has no idea any of that. She assumes that
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: the brotherless are still like just shidow light, but they're
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: not anymore.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And she's like, man, that thunder. There must be a
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: storm coming. It's gonna start pouring any minute now.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And she's taking that for like hours. It's like,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: at some point you have to realize that any minute
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: now has not occurred. It just isn't. It's not gonna happen.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I also wonder about the frequency, do you not understand that,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Like anyone who's been involved in a thunderstorm versus a
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: one power battle, I feel like there was there would
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: be a difference in frequency in strikes.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and like a very.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Obvious pattern, and one would sound like a battle and
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: one would sound like nature.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, presumably it's just the noise and the tension of
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: her situation just sort of blanking out paying attention to that. Yeah,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: because she is in a very dire situation listening to
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: like people talking and the sound of them moving, rubble
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: right right, all of that, So like it's just kind
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: of all background to her. She's like, yeah, thunder, I
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: guess whatever, that's like it for her attention, and she
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: does as soon as she gets out, she does go like,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: wait a second, this isn't this isn't thunder thunder, Like
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: she does think that as soon as she's out of
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: the building.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Sure, sure, sure it's being underground and like not having
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: any visibility into what's going on.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Here, it still feels weird. I agree, it still feels like,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: surely after hours you would have noticed that the rhythm
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: is wrong.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of assuming that the thunder didn't go on
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: for hours, that the thunder kind of appears right as
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: they're about to get out.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, time is very slow and blurry during his battle sequences, though,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: an RJA classic is he does not let you know
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: how much time.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Is passing the booms. She had been hearing thunder for
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: some time, quite a lot of it and slowly coming closer. Yeah,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: sometime sometime.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: M right, She's trying to estimate the passage of time,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: but like it's not working. So like Archie's telling us,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: don't even bother.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, it's just a it's less than a day.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's enough time that the Brotherless have worked on.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Roll On has let them try to dig themselves out,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: and he's tried to dig out from the top, and
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: then they have decided, oh, the battle is moving closer
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: to us. This isn't working, and that's when they roll
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: On leans out and says, now we're gonna do a
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: human rope thing. We're gonna have can win, Like hold
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: my ankles and you're gonna climb up over me because
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: we don't have time. And he doesn't say we don't
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: have time because of the storm, but what he's saying
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: is like, we don't have time because I can hear
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: the battle coming closer, So however long it takes battle
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: to move, right, like whatever, the speed of battle is
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: not constant, not constant, right, but like it's not minutes, right,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: like it could be like an hour, Like it takes
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: a while for a battle to like begin in one
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: area and then move to another area. Like this is
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: a foot battle, right, this is not like a car
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: battle or whatever. It's gonna go reasonably slow, and these
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: guys are gonna be looking at it and going, eh, yeah,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: we got to change the strategy we've been doing for
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: like twenty minutes or whatever. Like it's taking them minutes
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: to an hour, I would think, But I can't be
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: three hours. I mean, the battle does is supposed to
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: be over by noon. Battle is exhausting. This is a
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: mid battle decision, so it can't be more than two hours, right.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Well, And also at the end of this chapter, he
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: says they will be here in about two hours, So
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: that means and if they're going to be there at noon,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: that means that's still ten o'clock when parent rescues her. Yeah, yeah, right,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: so that's still ten am, which is still pretty early
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: in the morning. And I know they went out at
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: like dawn. But assuming even assuming this is like, well
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: time of year, is it.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I think we're a little bit past bell tanes or
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: a past spring equinox.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. So so Don's going to be like, yeah,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: seven at the earliest, right, so yeah, three hours?
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'd say Don was probably six for.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Them, So you know, we're talking four hours since they
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: got up and went out there.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, I mean, this is this process, entire
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: process of them trying to dig out with the brotherless overseeing.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: It can't be more than an hour hour and a half.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: And don't forget they were down there for a while
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: with Magden trying to wave the flag.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Too, right. Yeah again, so yeah, this is like, yeah,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: forty minutes maybe that they spend with roll On being
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: like yeah, sure we can dig you out. Actually no,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: never mind. And then he you know, has them human
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: chain their way up and he pinches all the women,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: which is annoying. But we have the beginning of the pattern,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Refayelle always beginning. We have the continuation of the pattern.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Refayelle is prioritizing others.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Well, and it's everybody does it right because there are
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: these this nobility of the queens of like, no, no,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: the I will be the last one out, and then
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: in rolland's like, I'm not getting aybody out unless you
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: come first, right, So she's like fine, and then she's like,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I'll be the last one healed, and the healer ends
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: up ignoring her. That's all. Yeah, that's later.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: But it's a funny iteration of that pattern, right.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: It's sort of in the same vein. I wish parent
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: was here. He knows what to do with women, right, like.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Right, I must go to the back of the line.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I am the least worthy. I wish I was as
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: brave as the others.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's what the other one I was gonna go
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: is nineve saying I wish I was as brave as
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: a lane and then charging face first into a battle
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: forsaken I mean like yeah, not brave, not brave, definitely
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: not brave.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Parent and Fayeel's people, their deal is no, don't
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: treat my wounds until everyone else has been healed. It
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter that I literally have a gut wound or like.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Right, right, and they have a bruised arm.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Right, like yeah, yeah, yeah, that is That is the
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: basher e Bara cultural trait that they're going to pass
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: on to their entire new nation. It's like no, no, no,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: don't treat me.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: I mean it's Two Rivers too as well, to.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: A certain extent. Yeah, that is basically the Two Rivers.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: But Fayel didn't learn it from the Two Rivers. Fayiel
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: definitely had that from her Borderlander origins.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Well, and that's something that we see a lot with
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Land and Rand is that they share a lot of
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: these like the sympathy for women, the the hard work,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: the sacrifice, this like I would almost say this puritanical
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: view of life that is shared with the Borderlanders and
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: the Two Rivers.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Stoic to the point of insanity.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that Manethrens seem to have the same
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: values of the Borderlanders because they were in this constant
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: battle with the dark One, right, and then those values
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: seem to have passed on and down to the people
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: of the Two Rivers. And somehow that DNA is shared
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: with the Borderlanders.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Shades of Protestantism, yes, religion, but yeah, no, I think
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: you're right. There's an implied Jordanism that fighting against the
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Shadow will have you in this sort of yeah, like
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Protestant work, ethic kind of space which is like pretty
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: toxic in some iterations, but also create some fun noble
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: tropes that will transcend their other cultural trappings and get
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: that synergy.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: You have to look at and or you have to
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: look at these words. I mean these these are these
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: are England Camelot analogies, right, Like, so you're gonna have
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: a world that is course based in that sort of mythology, right.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, a world in which the Protestant work ethic
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: is not seen as a bad thing is going to
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: center it as a good thing, and like, okay, sure,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: for the sake of argument, will allow it.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: No, the Protestant work ethic has totally made my life
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: better and hasn't harmed me in any way, shape or.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Form anyway to the book.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: So she gets out and gets a big gulp of
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: fork route.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Which doesn't affect her because she has no channeling ability whatsoever.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: It does affect her, though there is a moment later
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: on here we go. Magnan passes out right because she,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: of course drinks the four routine does have the ability,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: and Fil says, she must be very tired. File said,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: smoothing hermaid's hair and trying to think how they blah
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. It would be light. She felt
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: to touch wobbly herself. Yeah, because she drank fork bluetee,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: and people who don't have channel channeling abilities still feel
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: a little bit wobbly and a little bit off when
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: they drink fork routine It gives them a.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Slight and then literally a paragraph later she almost collapsed
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: beside Megan with relief or Magnane with relief, like, yes,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: mostly relief, but.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Oh that she could not afford weakness. Not now she's feeling.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: This weaknessbb just just scosh wobbly, which is what forkro
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: tea does to you. Just on being excited to be
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: like Magdi passed.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Down right right, because we both missed if.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I Yeel experienced it too, Because yeah, she drinks like
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: a whole water skin of the stuff. She's gonna feel it.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: To us, she feels it at one fifth of strength,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: but we've been told it's roughly like a one to
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: five ratio. Ah, that makes so much sense.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Good catch, Thank you, yeah, and again thanks to again
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: to Encyclopedia Watt for having this in their notes and
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: being like, oh, yeah, you passed out because the forourit
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: me going, you know, forehead palm, immediately slap my forehead.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, you dumb ass. Why didn't you think
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: of that earlier?
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: The power of our nerdoms.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Combined, we can almost keep up with Robert Jordan, almost almost.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: And he needed Maria to keep him on track.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: That's true, that's true.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Maria is the actual MVP.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Let's not forget that. Behind the man writing this book,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: we're at least two women doing the majority of the work.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Quite literally, when he says we need men and women
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: working together for balance to create great things, he's not
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: fucking getting he knows.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: What he's talking. Yeah, so yeah, I Fayel manages to
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: drink some water and thus gain enough like awareness and
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: functionality in her brain again to put together what is
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: happening and realize that there is a massive battle and
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: is it paren? Is it a yeel? Like she's running
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: through all these options trying to figure out what could
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: possibly be happening, but she finally knows there's a battle
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: either way.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I like that. One of her options is,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: you know, it's unlikely this, it's unlikely that, and it's
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: just as unlikely as and then she names the real thing,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: which is Paren getting together a bunch of channelers to
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: fight and also somehow preventing the wise ones from fighting back?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: How is possibly? Like, She's like, it must be a
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: civil war. I don't understand, like what's going on? And
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: then yeah, of course.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: The only explanation is that Paren's done a whole bunch
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: of really improbable things that he absolutely cannot do according
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to my knowledge. Right, yeah, well you're in a novel, Girly, so.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Magden, you know, does the same thing. Magden washed
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: out her mouth hurriedly before beginning to gulp thirstily. So yeah,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: of course she, being the channel or only channeler of
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: the group, is the one who collapses right away. I'm
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: sure being tired doesn't have a contribute, right, The.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Only one channel link the whole time, and channel ling
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: is an exhausting activity, particularly when you're learning and pushing
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and stretching. I'm sure her channeling ability got bigger because
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: of the effort she put in. She maybe would be
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: tired at a much deeper level than the rest. But yeah,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: the tea has to have made such a big difference
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: in the rate at which she passed out.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she collapses literally, yeah, but yeah, and then that paragraph,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: we get a little bit about fail feeling a bit
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: wobbly and almost collapsing beside, we'gett in with relief, she says,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: aka being drugged a little bit.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the lack of tension plus a sedative
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: flooding your system. That's going to be a constructive wave
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: to want to punch you down into. Like bring that
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: woman a pillow and like let her put her feet
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: up because she is needing an.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: App So at this point, the Brotherless basically say we're
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: getting you out.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they say, a shit is moving fast. Our
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: first priority is to stash you somewhere safe outside of
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: everyone's sphere of influence.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: And then we'll come back and get you and take
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: you out here, give you whatever supplies you need, like
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: And that is kind of a little bit depressing about
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: how they get killed. Is like if they had just
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: stopped and talked for a second, they could have said,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: we all have the same goal here, which is getting
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: these women out of camp.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: But also Roland literally is the one who captured Fayel.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely right, like and he was kind of demanding
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: sexual favors for getting them out right, like.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was like literally sexually harassing the other
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: women just to try to provoke Fayel because he was
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: playing weird mind games with her to yeah, coerce sexual
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: favors out of her, Like it's all very icky, and yeah,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: it's very depressing that they were kind of doing a
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: good thing at the end, where yeah, for the sake
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: of getting the prisoners out, cooperation with Paren for a
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: brief period totally makes the most sense. Right, But then
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: you have to kill an enemy because he's a douchebag,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: or you have then have to kill an ally a
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: brief temporary ally because it turns out he's your longer
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: term enemy in a total douche like.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean this goes back to my theory where
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I would have loved to see Paren take in more
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: of his enemies. I would have loved to see him
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: take in the Brotherless and have them fight for Paren
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: as opposed. And that's how they could fight for the
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Dragon Reborn without fighting for Rand, right. I think we
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: talked about this theory in the past.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Right, Oh yeah, yeah, And I mean then, yeah, you
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: could have a whole moment where Paren has to like
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: kind of pseudo forgive Roland because Roland's like I am
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: now your spear and you can literally kill me, and
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I won't even bother to like resist because like perpetual
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: guy shine, but I'm willing to go do violence against
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the bad guy. Blah blah blah. Like yeah, we spend
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: this whole thing out with like Aram helping retrieve Messima's
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: people and Paren just collecting the maridin but yeah to
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: turn them to have roll on specif cifically bring the
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: merit in to Paren and have Paren have to wrestle
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: with the fact that this is specifically the man who
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: kidnapped his wife, but also that same man is saying,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: my life is yours. You can do with it what
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: you want, because that is how I learned the error
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: of my ways. We get a massive double forgiveness or
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: with Paren that would be very interesting to explore, but no,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: instead we get brains on his hammer.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Alas, and well, I think it would be fun to
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: explore the cutting off of the hands with Roland the
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: victim in that.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Case, like I will have to take one of your
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: hands as restitution, just just in general, just because that's
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: what I do to yell to piss me off. Now,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: so I take away a hand.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: But we're past that, right, He's thrown away the axe.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: All right, yeah, yeah, I don't want to do them
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: with a hammer.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: No, no, crush, crush your hand of the hammer.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah no, we don't need that.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: No. So Fayel's got her blade stashed away that she's
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: going to use on Rollin later.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She well she or anyone, right, she still has
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the knife and she's like, I don't know who's going
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: to be regaining control of me, Mi stay goes on,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: but I have a knife and I will fucking use it.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that's how we end the POV is with
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: her being like, even though the man has my arm
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: in his fist, I have a knife in the other hand,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: and we see her use that knife to kill Kinwin
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: in the night. That's right, Yeah, Rolland gets killed by
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Paren as Kinwin rushes past Fayel to attack Paren. In
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Roland's wake, Fayel negates the issue with that knife.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Paren ran along the winding street through the tents. No
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: one moved in his sight, but through the roar of
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: exploding fireballs and light, he could hear other sounds of battle.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Steel clashed on steel, men shouting as they killed or died,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: men screaming blood ran down the left side of his
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: face from a gash in his scalp, and he could
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: feel it oozing down his right side from where his
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: spear had grazed him, oozing down his left thigh from
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: a spear that had bitten deeper. Not all of the
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: blood was his own. A face appeared at the opening
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: to a low, dark tent and drew back hurriedly, a
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: child's face, and frightened. Not the first he had seen.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: The shadows were being pressed so hard that a good
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: many children had been left behind. They would be a
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: problem for later. Though. Over the tents, he could see
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: the gates a little more than a hundred paces ahead.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Beyond them lay the fortress and fight. Yeel So yeah,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: he's basically in battle, getting attacked, attacking people. He's got
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: a couple of cuts gashes. I you know, reading the
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: story the first time, and I didn't realize how often
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Paren takes really bad wounds. This doesn't really acknowledge them,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: and he usually takes on healing like Matt complains about
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: his wounds and he doesn't get healed, so like he
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: kind of went limps fro him for a long time,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Like he's his hips broken for a long time, right.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: I think of Matt as someone who gets wounded I
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: think of Rand as someone who gets wounded a lot,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: because he's always got that wounded aside, and he's constantly
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: getting healing because of that plus whatever other wounds he gets.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Paren I just forget, like he gets that arrow in
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: him for a long time. All his battles. He's cut
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: up really badly and he just goes. But he always
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: has either an I sid eye with him, right, like
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: a varren or Alana right for a while in those
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: early books. Yeah, and now he's got a couple of these,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: sayanid right, yeah, and where did they come from? Where
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: are they with him?
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: White Tower Embassy at some point one of the white
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: terror embassies that got broken up and reformed into a
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: hass to the taverns.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: And he's got the Oshaman with him as well.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: And the Ashaman no healing also, yes, yeah, parent has
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: no issues or unhealable wounds. He just gets normal, straight
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: ahead wounds. And he has a reasonable person's approach to
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: magic healing, which is yes, please.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, oh wait, you can heal me, especially when
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: they get the healing that like doesn't knock him out
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: for a couple of days, right when they use like
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: nineties version of healing where.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: They can like, I don't think that ever makes its
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: way to parent's camp. I think they're stuck with the
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: old healing the whole time.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: The men always heal with the new healing.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Oh that's true, that's true. They just never learned the
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: battle field stuff. They only for whatever reason they oh,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: because they were learning from Tayim.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Who was taught by it for sacred Yeah, for sake.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that would explain why they got the correct
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: form of healing from the jump.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Well, he's clearly not demand red because VanIn is demand red,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: and there's no way in both places at the same time.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, internal consistency is required. I get it.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: I'm more and more convinced the more I think of
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: that theory, the more I'm just like, Nope, Jordan was
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: writing absolutely like, it's it's it's the place, it's where
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: there should be fortaken there that should be the spot
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: where there is a forsaken.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's. As so often true, it is Jordan
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: who is wrong?
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, is it me? No? No, my head canon is right.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: It is Jordan who's wrong.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Objectively and absolutely no one can counterfactual us. We will
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: be taking no questions at this time or any time.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Speaking of Elene and Avianda, they are not in this chapter.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, no, no, definitely not. So he runs
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: into two shidow who are distracted by something on their left.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: He kills those two shidow and then from the left
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: comes am. We need to talk about.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: It's such a good potential, completely wasted. He was so young.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: And this is where I have to go. Why why Paren?
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Why aarm? Why that character? Why are they related? What
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: was Jordan trying to do and what was he trying
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: to say with aarm? Because I think if there's any
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: time to summarize it, it's you know, in in memorim.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: So yeah, to just recap the encounter, Aaron attacks Paren
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: and says in a very dazed, knocked on the head
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: compulsed kind of way, the prophet explained it to me,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: I have to kill you to save Fayel. Paren cannot
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: bring himself to kill aarm properly, and so some other
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I yield take advantage of the two Wetlanders who are
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: tangled up, shoot one Wetlander and attempt to shoot the
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: other and thus Paren gets away because Tavern. That's the bare.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Bones of the action scene.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like Aaron dies to arrows in the back is
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: how he actually dies. Paren doesn't even have to deliver
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: the final blow. He's about to get cut down. It's
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: a whole mess. It's an absolute wet part of an encounter.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: So and and and the end of it, Parent goes
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: huh and like keeps going right, like it's no, there's
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: it's it's a real huh that happened? I mess up? Yeah,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: it really is.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: And he thinks about it later and it's a whole thing,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: but like in the moment, it's that's it. So yeah,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I agree in memoriam to what Aaron should have been.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about it.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I think what Jordan was trying to do is basically Okay.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Whenever I go why is Jordan doing something? I remember
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: he's either trying to do two things. Say explain that
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: myth fades to rumor right, which fades the legend right.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: So either he's basing this off of the legend and
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: this character is doing it because the legend does it right,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: or he's trying to demonstrate that balance is important.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Which is very thematically relevant with Paren and violence in particular.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, and so with Paren the hammer is the balance
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: for him, right, The hammer is the thing that has
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: multiple purposes. The axe is for killing only. We're ignoring
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: the fact that you can use an axe to cut
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: down a tree because it's a battle axe not a
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: tree axe. Yeah whatever, Yeah, that aside, the axe is
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: a weapon for killing. The hammer is not. Right. The
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: hammers can be used for killing, but can also be
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: used for creation. Aarm picks up a sword, which we
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: know from the way of the leaf is a weapon
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: only it has no use other than killing. Right. At
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: the same time, Paren took away everything aarm believes in.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: He has no family, he has no creedo right.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: He has no kid or kid.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: No, Yeah, it is nothing, nothing going on in his
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: life other than the sword, which it's only uses for murder.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Right, Right, Swords only exist to exert martial control.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: What is parent and say, I'm a blacksmith? Right, he
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: has something else in his life? And what else in
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: he has?
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Fayale Right home is Fayel.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fome is Fayel. Fayl grounds him and so you
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: know there's this this bit of warning, like you see
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: him going a little bit off the deep end, going
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: into that violence without Fayel. Right, that's what the cutting
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: off of the hand is is, that's he's becoming aerm
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: in that moment.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Right, The ax is too much when he doesn't have
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Fayal to balance it out, which maybe means it's just
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: too much in general, because he's can actually manage himself
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: with only the hammer without Fayo.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I think there's also another there's this contrast between Matt
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: and Paren that really only makes sense if you look
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: at Matt a little bit, where you look at Matt
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: as the one who everyone calls irresponsible yet is raising
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: a child, brings an army, wins the battle, is incredibly reliable,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: you know, does everything he says he's going to do.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: And then you've got Paren, who everyone says is incredibly reliable,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: and yet he's barely leading his army. He's going off
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: the rails to just rescue somebody. He refuses to take
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: responsibility for anything, and aarm his surrogate child he totally
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: abandons to death and corruption.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: God damn. Yeah, Matt has to work for his army.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Paren has to be begged by his army to serve
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Matt easily and naturally makes sure that Oliver is taken
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: care of. Paren makes sure that Aaron spirals out into
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: a cult follower. Matt instantly switches from philanderer to super
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: loyal man the second that he gets legally married. Paren
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: lets himself get.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: The second he meets the person he knows will be
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: his wife.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Paren does not know the beginning of how to handle
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: a weird, salacious rumor and just sort of lets its
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: spiral out of control, even though he is the most
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: loyal man in the world, Like he's so lost on
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: how to deal with his own image. Wow, Matt gets
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: so much shit for being irresponsible, and Parent gets so
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: much prayers for being responsible.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: But it's like, but Jordan loves proving his characters wrong, right, Oh.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's profound.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: And just how much he's ignoring his responsibilities right to
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: go after Fai yield, to go after what he wants,
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: the responsibilities of taking care of Aaron, taking care of
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: the people who depend on him, taking care of the
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: two of hers folks.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, I mean and fairness, Like Matt does kind
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: of have an army that follows him around and forces
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: him into a position of leadership that is actually kind
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: of consistent between the two of them.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Yep, but okay, but I was just reading that, and
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: like he makes a deal with Telmanis Tomnos talks him
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: into it, but he shakes his hand and says, yes,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I will be a leader, right and from then on out.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: He complains about it, but he is the leader of
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: the band from then on out.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's also that part where they have to force
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: it into like accepting that he's a prince and he
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: needs a procession to go into the city. But yeah,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: it's and they both do complain about all the people
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: looking to them for leadership and how young they are,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: but Matt gets a lot more shit than Paren does,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: even though they are very very equal in their reluctance,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: and that is interesting. But yeah, it really fails Arim
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: on a really profound level because everyone can see what's happening,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: and everyone just kind of shrugs and lets it go.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: And I have a really hard time buying that Abel
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: and Tam didn't like try. Like I have a really
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: hard time just being like, oh, yeah, they didn't see
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: it or didn't care either, And I'm like, would Tam
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: actually see an orphan tinker pick up the sword and
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: not go ooh ooh, that seems like a problem. I
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: feel like Tam, the best dad in the world, should
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: have noticed and done something.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: The only other thing I want to put out there, okay,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: is the sentence his eyes looked almost glazed, like those
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: of a corpse.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I wanted to bring all that up because
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: do we think that there's something extra going on with
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: aarm or is it just what happens when a terrorist
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: pulls the pin on the suicide vest.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: It's tough to know, right, because we're in this situation
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: where we know for a fact that Massima is being
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: influenced by Grendall posing as the dragon right in his dreams.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: She's fucking with his head. Aarm incredibly loyal, goes to
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: visit Messima, comes back with a glazed look in his eyes,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: spouting this nonsense. It's about Paren being a dark friend
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: that came from Massima, or that he thinks came from Massema.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: But if he's visiting Messima, Grendall pops in for a visit,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: she sees Aaron there knows that's Paren's companion, throws a
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: little hey guess what, he's actually a dark friend compulsion
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: into his head. He comes back with this incredible you know,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: dead eye focus on killing paren out of nowhere. Because
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: it's compulsion. I'm not saying I believe it. It's it's it's
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: it's a not even a theory, it's a theorem or
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: a hypothesis, hypothesis. It's a hypothesis, right, Like, I don't
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: really have a lot of evidence for it other than
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: circumstantial evidence.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's he's clearly becoming a zealot and becoming infected
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: with Messima's worldview. I think that that's happening in an
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: entirely organic human way.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: But but Massima's worldview is influenced by Friend all the Forsaken.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Very much so, and he kind of didn't like parent anyway.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: So like what he's preaching organically repeatedly at aarm is
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: these golden eyes mean that he's a dark friend. Blah
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. Like all of that feels to
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: me very just Miss Sema could have come up with
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: that in his own book, Canonical Perfect Context.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, certainly the White Cloaks think that, But when
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: have we ever thought of Messima thinking that he's a
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: dark friend with the with the yellow eyes is that something.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: That I thought that Missima was into that, because.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Because I definitely feel like the one we do know
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: is the white Cloak who gets it.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah for sure. And that's also by Grendel, and.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: That's also by Grendall. So yeah, but like common common
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: theme here, Grendall compulsion.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: But I do like the idea that one time Grandall
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: showed up and Aaron was there and she just put
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: the tiny one of those really tiny little tops and compulsion.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: That doesn't actually change your cognition at all. It just
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: says kind of like what Vern did, like find a
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: reason when the time is right, find a reason you're
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: hanging around Messima. Your subconscious is seated with plenty of reasons.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: You just have to find the right time. And the
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: battle is clearly the right time.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: It kind of reminds me of like more Gaze not
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: trusting the White Tower anymore. I just can't bring myself
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: to trust them for some reason for it right.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Yet without losing her intellect, Like it's just like there's
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: a gut feeling she can't shake.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: And that's compulsion from Ravine.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then yeah, maybe there's some sort of like
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Manchurian candidate kind of you know, like when the time
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: is right, like this compulsion will kick in and you
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: will like go in for the kill regardless of your
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: own self preservation.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Like decept shit, right right.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I just it's the way that Aaron changes at the
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: end is like is that just suicide brain or is
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: there something more? I want to believe that there's something
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: more because Massima has been so integrally manipulated by Grandall.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: It's like he maybe have the ability to like do
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: a feign style like compulsion on the people that he
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: was really close to. Did Grandall like grant him some
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: aura of compellability somehow? So she didn't even target air
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: on per se, She just targeted people that he was around. Like,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I want to believe that Aaron
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: had something extra. But also we've talked about over many
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: many chapters, like he's been lost, he broke his own brain.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: This feels inevitable. Maybe this is just what happens when
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: you cross that threshold.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and compulsion by Grandall erases all of parents responsibility
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: in it in a way that I don't like.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which, like that's always the thing with compulsion is
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: you do want to maintain the interesting characters with their
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: full human flaws. And it's like Aaron clearly broke his
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: own brain by going to a Zella, and Paren clearly
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: let that happen despite it being obvious one all the
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: less violence, and Masima was preaching that bad things needed
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: to happen to people who didn't agree with him, like
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: he was saying all that stuff. Aaron's subconscious totally could
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: have just yeah, hit that wall, had that associative break,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: had that you know, psychotic break probably, and.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Like, and he loves Fayel, not necessarily parent, right, He's
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: he's changed his loyalty to parent and viaiel to Fayel,
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: and I need to protect her from her husband.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I feel like many a good piece of
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: psychological thriller art has been made out of that kind
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: of motivation, without magic needing to make it believable. So yeah,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I do agree that I want to believe compulsion because
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I don't want to believe the depths of human depravity.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah he might. That might just be what
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: it's like when you cross that threshold and decide that
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: now is go time on your suicide mission. I would
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: not know. I've never been on a suicide mission. I
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: do not know that headspace.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: But and so the bit with Aaron ends with parent
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: thinking so many things he should have done too late.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Now last time he thinks about Aaron, ever, I'm.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Pretty sure Fayo brings him up one time after I'm
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: pretty sure.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: But he really did just dismiss him with h there's
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: a dead body too late now, I guess he you
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: shouldn't tried to kill me or something.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe don't suffer like profound life altering trauma and
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: then never get a good mentor to help you deal
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: with that. Maybe just try doing better next time you lose?
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right right?
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and thus yeah get good yeah God butmer Yeah.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Paren turns the corner and immediately gets distracted from his
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: complete and utter failure as a father to Fayel, the.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Most unlikely encounter of Fayel. Right, this has got to
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: be Tavaran twisting.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: It's very coincidentally. Well, the reason that it's there's Tavern
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: involved with the timing, But it also makes sense that
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Roland is taking them out of the gates because he says,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get you out of right physically and
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: like stash you off site and then go finish the battle.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: So like it makes sense that he's heading for the
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: same gates as Paren, but it's Taveren that allows them
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: to cross the gates at the same time.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, and so we sort of see this from Parent's POV.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: There's three guys. He thinks they're Shidoh because he doesn't
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: know the difference between Shidoh and Meridan, including one that
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: dwarfed Languin right, big dude, Yeah.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Big dude, bricks shit house quarterback massive.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is they seem to be an immediate threat,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: and so you know, of course Roland starts attacking.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Paren absolutely super reasonable.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: And Fayli screams Paren and that strikes Rolling just long
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: enough for Paren to crush his fucking call.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Right because as far as Roland is concerned, these are
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: invaders and they're going to kill any IEO they see,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: and why would they treat the guy Shine any differently
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: than I you, Right, Like, in Rolan's mind, he needs
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: to protect Fayel, and he has no idea who the
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: fuck Parent is until Fayel identifies him, and then he goes, ah, shit,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: that's the man I'm trying to protect her for fuck,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Like this is the one person she needs me to
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: not hurt.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Right, And I don't even think it's protect her for
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: because he wants Fayel for himself. I think it's more
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: like if I kill him, I will be she won't
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: forgive me, right.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: He this man is part of what he's protecting when
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: he protects Fayel, Right, he's trying to give her her
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: life back eventually. Right, He's like, I want to get
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: my favors from you.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: See I never saw that. I see her as him
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: is wanting her to come run away with him and
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: leave her old life behind.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: So when he says that I'm going to send you back,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: you think you think that's just part of his mind games.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Because he doesn't explicitly say I'm gonna pester you until
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: I send you back, but I am sending you back.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I think he's hoping that she's going to give it right,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: like he might have been. Why does he pestering her for? Right?
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: His lips are saying no, but his eyes are saying yes, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: He's enough of a creeper that I could imagine that
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: being true.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to force you to marry me. I'm
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: gonna put you in a situation where I can convince
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: you to marry me.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but regardless, he can't do that if he kills
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: her husband. Like, all that goes out the window, like
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: absolutely out the window.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Right right, of course he can't do it with her
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: husband kills him.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and arguably if her husband's dead, she'll need a comfort.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Fuck. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, killed her.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Husband, But you never know, women are strange. Yeah, a
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: lot of thoughts go through his head very quickly, and
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: then parents.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, goes through his head. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: That was Yeah, nice, It's.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: All follow it up with ten pounds of steel.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Basically, when my coach said don't stop before you touch
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: the wall, that's pretty much what I'm going to tell
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Roland here, is like, yeah, don't stop fighting until the
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: battle's over, because you stopped and the other guy didn't
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: and that's why you died.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And and the the effort of taking out
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Rollan takes you know, parent out of the fight. For
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: that you know round of battle. Kin Win is coming
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: up to attack him, right ifel is like with her
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: knife and.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: She just stabs him in the back.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is literally you know, rough right, literally takes
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: an Ally and and stabs him in the back, and
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: then Arala and Lucille together take out the other one,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: and Paren very dismissively thinks, oh, Arala is really upset
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: because she had to kill someone and she didn't like it. No, no, no,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: that's someone she actually had feelings.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: For, someone she was sleeping with.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, she had been sleeping with that person almost
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: as soon as they showed up in the camp, like
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: that was a very long standing relationship throughout the entire imprisonment.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: There was no hard feelings between them. They were absolutely
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: on good terms. And she didn't just stab an Ally
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: in the back. She stabbed like a lover who like
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: she was coming to really have feelings for in the back.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Like that's bad, and yet still kidnappers, right, Like that's
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: the whole thing is like that the original sin of
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: the kidnapping makes all of this completely justified. If they
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: had let them go and then the women had come
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: back to them, maybe, but they never got there.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really complicated, but it all happened really fast, right,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: And that's part of where the emotional whiplash for Eraline
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Laicilla is coming from. Particularly Araline parents, just like so
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: dismissive of her, Like, yeah, Chafayel can't handle Bloe and
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: it's like, bitch, she just had to go through so
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: many emotions and thoughts to pull that off. She has
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: so much processing to do, shut the fuck up, Like, ugh,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: so frustrating.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: But he's ignorant, right, he has no idea what they've
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: gone through in the time, and he makes assumptions about
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: what Fyl's gone through, right, Like the man was dead
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: and a woman had the right to keep her secrets
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: if she wanted, which we know that, Like she asked
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: some guilt because there was a moment when she believed
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: she would sleep with him, right she never did, which again,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: I think it would be more interesting if she did.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: I think it would be more interesting if she was
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: forced to sleep with him and Paren didn't sleep with Beryline,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: and that that would like the reversal of the jealousy
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: there right, this whole jealousy thing between Fayel and Beryline
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: and Paren. What she wouldn't have no foot to stand
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: on if she had slept with Roland while Paren had
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: maintained celibacy out in the camp.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I would have liked that better,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: but it would have been more drama.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a lot of tea. Yeah, I mean, you know,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: we liked it in the series. We do as not
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: for Group seal.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Actually, who did the stabby stabs? Sorry? Confused you with
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: so similar?
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Didn't they both stab?
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Or was it they both stabbed? But I was wrong
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: about which one of them was having the relationship?
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, gotcha? So I was like, he's got two
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: knife hilts out of his back. So unless one of
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: them went, you know, do double stabby, I'm assuming each
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: one of them had one knife.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: No, la Celle is the one who's suffering the worst
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: emotional trauma from that. I got it backwards. Anyhow, Paren
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: gets to hug Fayeel. Everyone cheered, it's a great moment.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: And then he yeah, he says, there'll be another six
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: or seven thousand spears here in less than two hours, right,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: So that's I'm assuming if they're going to be there
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: at noon. We're at ten o'clock now, after all of
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: this drama, after all this fighting, everything that's going on, Yeah,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: two hours before noon.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: That sounds right. And now that she's been reunited with Paren,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: suddenly Fayel is in charge of everything again and has
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: her feet under her and it's just like, all right, now,
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: I'm in charge, and she immediately takes it upon herself
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: to say, oh, well, if the attack is happening, that
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: means we now have one hundred thousand refugees, we're gonna
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: need to manage and get home and et cetera, et cetera. Eravine,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: you start marshaling Bannerman to make that happen.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: And I want all of the Savan's money.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, every last scrap of gold that parasite has hoarded
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: is mine now, because we have literally one hundred thousand
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: people to relocate, which is a lot.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: That's all the guy shine that we're taking.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: Right, way too many guys shine. I'm just gonna say it.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: That is wealth hoarding.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Savannah a billionaire, Oh my.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: God, seriously, major billionaire energy.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: So the only thing I want to say is that
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: we've got these two clans coming in. They're the White
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Cliff Clan and the Mariyah Clan. Mr Ai Clan. No
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: really mention of them in the rest of the books.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming they joined Savannah and head back to the
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: ideal waste Rava. Right, Sorry, Savanna is taken yeah, but yeah,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming they joined Thrava and go back with her
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: to the waste. That's my sum. But there's no other
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: mention of them in the books other than these.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they have to be part of the remnant,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: remnant of a remnant of a remnant that back to
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: the ways with its tail between its legs to just
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: go extinct.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Well, one would assume die out within a generation.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Or two, yeah, because I mean they say at the
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: end of this chapter it's going to take us generations
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: to rebuild, and Theravas is fine, we'll take generations. I
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: feel like we know that they will die out in
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: just a few generations because it would take generations to
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: build back ups and it's not going to happen.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: It's also the prophecies right way, way way back in
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: book four when it was basically you have to come
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: to Ruidian to and the Wise One said essentially follow
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Rand or you will be killed. Anyone who doesn't follow
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Rand will perish.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Right first, it was anyone who doesn't follow this new
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: ritual of going through the columns will perish. Then it's
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: anyone who doesn't follow Rand will perish, you know, Like
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: there's iterations of this and.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: There will only be a remnant of a remnant of
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: those who do follow Rand. But at least that's something, right, right.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: This is one of the other remnants, and they are
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: going to just fade away like an ice cube on
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: the sidewalk, like they're done.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Because like they'll never be able to get anything back
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: from because like they'll never be able to go to
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Rudian again because that's being occupied as a major city there.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: They'll be outclassed by technology very quickly with guns and
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: all that. They have no channelers left.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well they're going to have some channelers. There is
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: mention of some women being slung over the backs of
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: the warriors in Galina's perspective. At the end Therava escapes.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: The Rava's a decent channeler. They do have some channelers,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: but like, yeah, they're they're super outclassed for the world
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: that's coming and taverin Fate, the pattern is not going
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: to be kind no to them. They're going to have
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: the worst time. The other iyele are going to ostracize them.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: These shan Chan invasion is going to be very bad
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: to whoever the Ayeeal don't like, right, like whatever whatever
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: iteration of the future events that happen, the Shidow are
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: going to be able to losing.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Side Avienda's vision. The future isn't going to happen to
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: anybody except the Shadow.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Right, something like that is going to be how the
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Shidow get extinct, something along those lines. It might not
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: be the Raven Empire. It might not be after like
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: a long drawn out, like deliberate genocide, but something like
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: that is gonna happen because they they made their bed,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: their die is cast, you know. All right, So Doop
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Bee Doopy doo Paren tells her about the whole Fortress thing.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: She's like, what the fuck? They compare notes on Alice
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: slash Galina. They sort of work out, oh, she must
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: be a dark friend like blah blah blah. They send
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: someone off. They send Tharroll off to go get Isidai
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: and Warders and everybody from there. It's a whole like,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: let's get bring the party back together. And then we
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: have a series of people heading off into the battle.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: Kirkland goes off after Massuri because she, I guess didn't
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: come with them. I'm confused about where she is. But
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: what's more relevant is gaul gall is like wait a second.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: If she odd's not with you and never has been
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: with you, then that means I have to go into
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: the battle all by my lonesome where no one knows
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: that I'm on any side and find her. And Elias
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: is like, a go with him, will manage It's great.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: So what happened is all these relevant people went to
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: the fortress where he told Galina to tell and so
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Daryl had to go fetch them. That's why they were
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: all somewhere else.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I don't get why Missouri's not with
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: them when they come back, like I thought Missouri was
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: with them, and like, but then Kirkland's like, I have
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: to go to Missouri and he just runs off, and
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know why she didn't come with
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: them from the fortress. I guess because she's off studying
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: ideel channeling or something.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Well, no idea.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very weird. I thought that the group would
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: have included all of them, but Missouri apparently didn't come.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: So Kirkland runs off and then is promptly followed by
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: gall who's then followed by Elias. Because everyone's got a
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: freaking side quest to the need to accomplish.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: I guess, just so that you can do the thing
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: where it's like, oh, we have to go get the healer,
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: because they always have to do that in series. I
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: don't know, just sit there in pain and leading for
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: a while and have conversation before they can heal them.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: But that's not even what's happening. She's just a randomized
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: to die I don't know whatever, well who heals paren
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: saying it like she shows up in the group of
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: people from the fortress, like I thought the Missouri White
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: with her, but whatever, for whatever reason, she's not. Kirkland
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: runs off. But I love that Alias goes with Gall
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: just the way he's like, I'll go look after him.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: It'll be fine, Like I did highlight that and be like, oh,
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: like Elias is a.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Good dude, Like Gall has a wolf companion, like he's
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: companion to the Wolf King, but then also one of
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: the Wolf King's like random friends is like, hang out
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: with him. I'll go after him and keep him safe
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: out there. And we know that Gall is going to
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: accidentally rescue both Chiad and Baine together by killing the
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: man who owns both of their guys Shine certificates. However
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: that works.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Talm Wore freaks out because Magden is passed out.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean he's in the same place as Paren
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: right looking for his lady love, but she's you know,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: passed out and in the arms of a stranger. Like
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: that's a different reunion than Paren just got to have
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: with fail. I don't like the talent war more gaye thing,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: but like in this moment, I will allow him to
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: be a bit of a weirdo because like, yeah, that's
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: an upsetting sight to see at the conclusion of this
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: plot moment, like is she even alive, like, you know, concern.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the part of the talent more gayze thing,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: I think it's because it's told for her POV and
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: she's like I think she's doing a lot more to
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: flirt with him than she's willing to admit, and is
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: a lot more back and forth then she's willing to admit.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: It feels like she doesn't treat him that well, but like,
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I think that's because she doesn't treat herself that well, right.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: But she also seems wholly disinterested in him, and he
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: seems to have been be in love with her for
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: her at a distance vibes fair. Yes, I don't know
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: what to think about that, except that I wish that
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: it was clear. But you know, it's typical RJ romance,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: like what are you doing? Whenever he tries too hard,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: it's weird, and when he doesn't try at all, like
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: a vi Elaine, it's fine.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: So anyway, I think what he's trying to do with
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: more gaze is tell her story of her journey to
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: accepting herself as a woman and not as a queen,
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: and trying to do that through her acceptance as of
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: talent war. But it kind of comes off as arrogant
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: and a little airheaded and distant from the reality.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to be like this woman will discover her real
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: value and a man fucks her properly, Like I.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: That's not it, more of just like she's she has
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: to let herself have relationships where the because all of
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: her prior previous relationships were for the crown, right, for
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: ambition and politics, and this is the first one where
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: she actually likes him right, and in her own head,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: she cannot let herself like him because she has to
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: be married for the crown, and it's only once she
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: gives up the crown that she can say, oh, I
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: do actually like it, and I do actually want to
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: be with him, and she's you know, in the same
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: way that that Ninieve has to make herself deliberately angry
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: all the time. Why isn't any boys I angry? Well,
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: she's trying to be angry, right, Like, why is more
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: gaye dismissive of talent war because she doesn't think she
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: can be with someone for love?
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, do you think that that is what Jordan's
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: trying to say?
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: How effectively is at it? We can talk about that later.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in many future instances of their interactions, we'll get there.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: So then we get the healing humor moment of like, no,
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: get healed first, No, you get healed first, No, you
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: get healed first. And then at the end of that,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Seyona is able to sort of chime in with some
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: more eyes to Die information on top of the is
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Galinak has been a dark friend situation and be like,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: that's a serious charge and here's the legal procedure, and
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: that's sort of a fun thing to be like, all right,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: we're having information sharing between multiple parties. Isn't this nice?
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: Let's continue?
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: I'm nodding, but yeah, paren basically is like, I'm gonna
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: kill her, and they're like, no, we need to do
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: a trial and why and she's like, because you remember
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: when you were in the Two Rivers and you thought
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: that trials were important. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah,
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: I guess they are.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: Basically right, the rule of law has to apply to everyone,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: otherwise the people it needs to apply to in confusing
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: circumstances won't fucking buy it, right, Like, it's an unfortunate
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: reality of judicial systems.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: And it's different if she's throwing fireballs at you and
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: you hit her in the head with a hammer, right, Like,
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: that's different than like, you know, accusing somebody. And then
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: and of course nothing ever comes of it, because she
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: ends up being throb as play thing for the rest
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: of the series.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: And yeah, right, but it's important that our heroes are
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: seen to be pointed down the correct, you know, moral
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: path with respect to this immoral person. And the next
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: thing is naked Savannah.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: As and then paren does the whole thing of like,
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: I'm going to look at her because my wife expects
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: me to look at her.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: And if I feels like now with that element that
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: really I hate that woman on such a specific level.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: Please do not ogle the literal war trophy who I
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: would like to kill because she tortured me for like
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: six weeks.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: And we get the results of the battle, which are
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Massiema's men held to the point of suicide. Most of
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: them are dead or dying, and the Demani turned that
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: ridge into a death trap only a madman would walk into.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: So basically they channeled all the show, all the shido
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: through Messima's men, and they were, for all intentsive purposes,
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: wiped out to a man.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they held with zealot level fervor against like yeah,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: machine gun fire, like it's just not gonna go well
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: for you. You have to run away at some point,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: except they didn't. So they didn't except for Masteema and
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: his like small band of people who we will see
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: at the top of next book.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: Right, because remember they were with paren not with the
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: rest of his troops, right.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: They like cut their way through and ran way, so
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: like he'll have a few followers by the time that
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: Fayeel hunts him down and kills him. But like, yeah,
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: everyone else just died for the glory of the Lord Dragon.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: You know, they just all went down like zelots and
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: is a messy.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: And while the Shidow were wiping out his men, the
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: two rivers longbows and channeling that was pretty unopposed essentially
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: wiped out the Shadow and took them. That's that's the gun,
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: the machine gun fire. I sort of think of that
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: the Shidow were caught in.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean Tyley says that the losses between
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: their two forces are maybe a hundred.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: And how many people did they wipe out?
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Thousands didn't.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: Weren't the numbers like thousand.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, twenty thousand, No, there was twenty thousand of Messima's followers.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: That was how we say the twenty thousand people that
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: paren is just consigning to death with a very little thought,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: and that's against the Shidow. So it's gotta be more
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: like I mean, it's it's also if I says, it's
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: like roughly like equal shie, Like there's more guy Shine
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: than there are Shidow, and there's one hundred thousand Guy Shine,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: So there's like eighty thousand Shidow, say, and twenty thousand
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: of these zealot cult people like went up against them
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: probably took out you know, maybe five to ten thousand
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: Shadow just through sheer mass and wild stabbing. But then
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: the Demani took out so many, right, I mean, like
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that parents forces did a lot of work
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: with their bows, but like the Demani had to have
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: done so much of that heavy lifting, just so much.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: Yep, they are machines of war.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: It's just I imagine how horrifying it must be for
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: the shidow clans that are coming up and coming in after.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: And again, how many of these shidows were at do
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: my as wells? First? Right?
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: Right right? And like you mean pick through this charnel
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: field looking for like children, intents that got left behind,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: you know, like with all that oh my god, ah
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: that do might as well as trauma. Like it's just
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: like the shadow are having a really rough year. Like
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: this is what happens when you a rate, when you
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: elect a demagogue, this is what happens.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: Don't they take a lot of the shidow as Guy Shine?
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: No, well, no, the shan Chan do. The shan Chan
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: do take a lot of shadow as Guy Shine. Okay,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: but what a lot is I don't know, because they're
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: not going to be taking on more numbers than they
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: can like keep secure handle on, and a lot of
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: shidow are going to go down fighting and not be
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: taken alive very deliberately, I think so. I don't know
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: how many that could be compared to the number of casualties.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just looking for if they have any numbers
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: about how many. I don't think so, just that the
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: people who have given up are now basically, you know,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: won't fight back because they're guys. Shine right, Tylie's like, yep,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: we're good. Yeah.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: What is frustrating also is the they've already fitted Adam
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: to over two hundred women the shidow level. This is
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: part of why Tyler gets honored so hard, is because
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: she brings back hundreds of new channelers, not just like servants,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: but channelers.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: Which that's how they participate in the last battle.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Oh God, do not make me glad that they fucking
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: took shidow channeler's hostage, because otherwise they would have been
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: doing fuck all during the last battle, right, literally, otherwise
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: they would have been doing all during the last battle.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Oh God, don't make me argue that.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Don't do that. It helps it. It helps the last battle. Absolutely.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: We have two hundred channelers who otherwise would not have
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: been helping the side of good now with the sean
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Chan force to fight in the last bat because it's
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: always more so long than the money.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, this is a more quote unquote good
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: thing to happen than the White Tower raid. Yep, oh
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: my god, that's disgusting. I don't say these things. That's Jordan.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: These are the moral the moral choices that paren made. Right.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: He is making the forces of the light more powerful
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: with every decision he makes.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: And Rand thinks he's making morally questionable decisions.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Parent did say it is deal almost with the devil, and.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: Then he thinks at the end, well, Tiley seems like
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: a nice person, and it's like, yeah, well this is systemic, sir.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: It's not about individuals.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: Right. Oh you feel I feel like you just hit
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: a moral dilemma wall right there with that one.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the sound of my moral compass breaking.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Ouch, slavery a good thing? No, no, bad, No,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: can't say that.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: It's if you if your moral compass leads you to slavery,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: you need a new moral compass. So fuck.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: So. While Parent is checking out Savannah's booty, Fayel says
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: she wants Savannah's booty.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: She does indeed, Yes, yes she does.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so she has a huge chest of jewels and
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: I want them. Don't look at me like a Loubi parent.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: I love that, loub I know we have one hundred
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: thousand people to feed, clothes and help get back to
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: their homes. One hundred thousand at least, because that's just
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: the guy shine, right, and then you've got the shidow
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: and everybody else.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they don't really take many shadow guide many
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: guy shine shidow uh in parents army. I think only
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: the shadow contingent of his army takes like individual guy shine,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: but he as an army does not engage in that.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: I think that most of them do end up being
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: taken by the shawn cham Yeah. Uh, I like this
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: line dirty or no dirty face she was regal talking
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: about by you, which made him think of the broken Crown.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: Discussion of that little matter would have to come later,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: because remember he's found out that she is basically the
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: inheritor of the broken Crown of Saldaea, which I.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Thought he learned in book four.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but sure.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: Let's pretend like it's a revelation.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Now here's another one of my little bits I sent
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: you in the fight with Ravin Ninive has taken Mogedion
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: prisoner and the tossing bail fire right, and Anive goes
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: or I only, oh, shoot, it might be early a
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: different power.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I remember you sending me this.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: Basically, someone's tossing bailfire around. I don't remember exactly what
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: it is, and Ninive goes, huh, whatever that weave is,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: we have to avoid it. And then someone says it's bailfire,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: you idiot, and she goes, huh, okay, I'm wondering what
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: bailfire is yet. Back in Tanchico books earlier, she's attacked
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: by one of the dark friends who has a tearran
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: greol that creates bailfire, and she goes, oh, that's bailfire. Yeah,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: she knows what it is. She knows what it looks like,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: she's been attacked with it before, she knows the name
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: of it. She knows that tearang greoll creates it because
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: she's gotten a dossier on it.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: So her not knowing what bailfire is books later bothers
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: me bothered me a little bit. I was like, that's
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: a mistake, Jordan.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this feels similar because I swear in book four,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: he asks what her point in the line of succession
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: is and she says it straight out, so like, I
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: don't know what further revelation the broken crown could be
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: here so many books later, so I swear the conversation
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: he's he asks her like, how many steps between you
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: and the throne? And he is very impressed at how
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: a few steps it is, because she's like, it's my cousin,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: my father, and then me.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: And let's also make the point of saying, this is
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: the only time in this book the term broken crown
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: comes up. It's not like he's thinking about it beforehand.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: It's not like this is a discussion he had earlier
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: in the book. It's like, wait, what are you referring
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: to something like books ago.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like I think at one point, like Elias
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: is off like it's mentioned that off screen, Elias mentioned
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: it or something, and it's just like I need more
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: than that in order to care about what this is.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: Right, right, But I mean, and we know it's her
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: being basically the pair to the throne of Saldaea, right.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: The throne of Saldea is the broken crown, Like it
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: just means that he's going to have to deal with
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: being king someday, Like that's all, well, king consort, right,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: he's going to be busy being king of the two Rivers, so.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: You know, right, and this this is the whole thing,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: right because like everyone above her dies very quickly in
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: the last and.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: Her parents die like in the same day. I think
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: of the battle like it's just like boom boom.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: Because Tinobia does something reckless and gets pulled down because
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: she like rides off into battle.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: I think it's when the plans are starting to get
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: screwed over.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: Oh no, she gets betrayed by the jug that's right. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: that's right. She's betrayed.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: She's one of the major losses to that series of betrayals.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean Fayo becomes queen while she's lost
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: in the blight. It's a whole process, her whole series
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: of events. I mean, there's no crowning obviously, but like, yeah,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: she's she's actively lost when the crown passes to her
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: legally speaking, Oh my god, we're going to be at
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: that book so soon, just a couple of years.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: We're down to like seven chapters of Robert Jordan writing
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: left right, because this is chapter thirty. There's thirty seven
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: chapters plus an epilogue, and then that's it. I mean,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: we have newcy Spring. We haven't done this spring yet,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: but yeah, this is the last time we get Robert
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: Jordan writing about paren.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: I like that Savannah not only introduced herself proudly to
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: the shan Chan, she also managed to kill two of
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: them before well two of the Altaurans. But still I
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: like that she like picked up a spirit to kill
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: two people before getting taken captive. It's like, just be
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: fucking spicy to the end, you know, I mean in
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: terms of fighting skill and ability, Like they're not even
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: true sean Chan, like they're you know, they're just all Tarans.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: They're just what landers to her. But it's like she
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: is an a Yeel despite everything, despite everything that's gone
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: on in her cultural lack of being a yell, she's
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: still like born with a spear in hand dangerous because
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: she's an aieel. Its Savannah indeed acting like a cougar
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: in good comment.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: This is the last time that we get Savannah as well.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: We never have any more follow up on her.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: I would have really liked some follow up on Savannah
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: we get a tiny bit of follow up on Elida,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: but not Savannah.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: So do you want to talk about this last paragraph
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: here with paren It was a strange world. He had
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: gone to her thinking he was making a deal with
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: the dark One and the light news. Some of what
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: the sean chand did was beyond repugnant, but the woman
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: was stalwart and true to her word.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. To that, I say, you can have a good
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: person in a bad system, and that will not change
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: the impact of the bad system. Like Tyley is going
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: to be a critical part of changing the system from
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: the inside. To the extent that systems can be changed
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: from the inside. You know, there's a real strong argument
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: for in Audrey Lord's words, the Master's tools will never
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: dismantle the Master's house. That's like a really poignant perspective
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: that I think is really relevant to this, but also
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: to the extent the sean Chan Empire can be rebuilt
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: without being dismantled. You're gonna need people like Tilie, right.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think that it's we live in the American Empire, right.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: We're white people in the American Empire like we are
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: tiy In an ideal circumstance, we are the person who
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: is decent and good and will be early on in
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: the Hey, maybe we shouldn't do that anymore conversation, Like,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: in an ideal world, we are the tily of this.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: So you have to be able to see the shan
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: Chin is having nuance, It is having gradations, and does
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: having people that are worth engaging with, like Tiley, and
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: people that our heroes cannot be morally stained by interacting with,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: like parent, Like we need that because that's us in
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: the equation.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: But it does feel white parents sitting here going, I
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: can excuse the slavery, but I draw the line it lies,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: you know, And it's like, yeah, there's a certain level
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: at which lie being is the ultimate sin in the
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: wheel of time, above anything else. Lying is just not acceptable.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: You can be a decent person if you tell them.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're honest and you have slaves well. And
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: part of the reason why that works is because cognitive
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: dissonance is where change comes from, and cognitive disiness tends
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: to come from someone being faced with these are your values,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: you are an honest person, how do you square those
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: values with these facts? And the person actually going through
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: a process of cognitive dissonance and then changing their mind,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: which is what we see Lylwyn entirely both going through.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: And what we want to see with Tuon.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: You need honesty in order for that process to work, right,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: Like you can't have a dishonest person face their cognitive
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: dissonance and make an uncomfortable change. That's just like not
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: how that works. And yet it is part of why
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: Tuan is such a betrayal is because it's like, I
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: can't believe that you're being honest with me if you
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: are both a good person and down with slavery, Like no,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: there is a fundamental dishonesty if you're a good person
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: who has yet to be faced with slavery in a
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: way that will make you change your mind about it.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: While that's an unfortunate human condition that we can forgive
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: because we're Americans and we live in a racial caste system,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: like we all get to go through that revelation process
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: at some point in our lives because we were born here,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: Like every Shanshan has to at some point realize they're
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: in a slave society and choose how to deal with that,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: and like you can choose different things throughout your life,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: and too on not choosing things when we see her
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: faced with all the evidence, the same kind of evidence
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: that Lyle Wan and Tyly face in boat loads more
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: in greater scale, and she does it, It's like it
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: feels like dishonesty. And I think that's why she's so frustrating.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: It's because Jordan has trained me to see honesty as
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: the ultimate barometer of goodness. Whether that's true or not
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: is beside the point. Jordan trained me to see this
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: world in that light.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: So right, because what's the worst thing that the dark.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: Aja does, Father of lies?
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: We, you know, the good guys pledged to tell the
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: truth no matter what on an oath rod right, Like,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: there's so many instances of.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: And giving your word, having your word really.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: Like Bond, Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: I say, Matt and Land both really get all up
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: their asses about what they're working. Gollag Godwin, for fuck's sake,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: Like all of them get really obsessed with what their
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: word means to be.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: And so then we finish off this chapter with a
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: goodbye to Galina little Lena, which I'm gonna say this
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: out loud because it took me way too long to
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: realize it, But Lina is just the back half of Galina.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, poor baby, you only just noticed.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: That, not just but not. I've always got.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: It was the best diminutive little name for her, because
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: it's just taking her pretty scary, imposing name and just
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: making it so infantile. And it's like it was right
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: there in the name of the whole time. I've always
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: loved it as a diminuation. Little Lena Galina becomes a
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: little Lena aw little bite, little lea bean little Yeah, right, totally,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: totally and yeah, this is the scene where I was like,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: I thought that she was about to use the rot.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: She wasn't. She was about to change her clothes. I
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: conflagrated that with the fact that she has the rod, Like, no,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: she was not about to use the rod. That was
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: totally a me problem.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: Nope, she's trying to find somebody who will channel into
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: it and help her use it. But she has to
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: get away first, and she fails that pretty miserably.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then Therava walks up and immediately says, you
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: will never ride a horse again, cutting out the first
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: leg of the tripod of how she's going to get away,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: and then says, you will never touch the rod again,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: and you will never channel again. I think, no, you
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: will never try to escape again. She doesn't say channeling.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: She says, you will never touch this and you will
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: never try to escape me again.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: And so that, well, the channeling is already in yeah faction, right,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: that's already a standing order.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: So yeah, with this, Gallina's life completely collapses into nothing
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: but being a basically, I mean, this is basically what
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: a corsuvro would do. Right, You have no will.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: It's why the oath of obedience is so dangerous because
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: then someone essentially can bind you to any oath they
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: want at any time, for any reason, simply by stating
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: it out loud.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you will walk on your hands for the rest
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: of your life. Would be a really awkward way to die,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: because you know, but it would happen, right like ooh.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: Fouji made a good point in chat. If Galina had
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: not tried to double cross Fayel, she probably would have
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: actually escaped successfully.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: Why because she would have been with paren.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming so she would have been with Fayel, they
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: would have escaped, she would have ended up with pair,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: and she wouldn't have crossed paths with the escaping Therava
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: like that whole interaction wouldn't have happened, she would have
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: had a totally different trajectory away.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if she's just done what parent asked her to
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: do and done what fay done, what she'd promised to do,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: what she promised to do.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: If she had just done what a not black Aujia sister.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: Would have done, right, she would have been fine.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: She would have probably gotten away. Probably if she had
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: actually worked with Fayel to get away, she would have
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: ended up getting swept into parents camp and she would
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: have been fine. But no, she had to be a
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: petty black Aja bitch. That's good. Come up, and it
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: is hard to see someone going into like no free
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: will permanent slavery to a sadist and cheer that. That
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: is a slightly complicated thing, but you're seeing a bad
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: person taking control of a bad person.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: So, however, this is remember the head of the Black Aja,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: the head of the worst organization to ever exist, and.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: She's going to a sadist who is not a dark friend,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: which seems like the best possible punishment if we're gonna
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: go with vindictive justice here, which like the head of
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: the Black Aja, probably deserves vindictive justice, like someone who's
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: not a dark friend, but who is very much into
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: samarag kinds of games.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: And yes, sorry, head of the Red AJA on the
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: council for the Black that I always get that.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're right, you're right.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: Yep, that every time.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: So she's extremely bad. She's on like the high she's
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: on the thirteen high council level bad because you're right,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: you're not technically the leader. She's the leader of the
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: Red AJA, who is not entirely evil. The Red AJA
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: is ostensibly a necessary force who does have some non
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: dark friend people working for them, but.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: However, they have been led by a dark friend yeah,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: for a long time.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: I assumes she's not the first who has done that.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: And their Black AJA also is massively overrepresented in the
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: Red and the Red has been a vehicle for a
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: lot more Black AJA plots than the other ajas, I
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: would assume, given the male channeler connection.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: And specifically in the last twenty years, they've been trying
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: to hunt down a channeler of a specific kind of
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: male channeler. Yeah, I mean, it's just it's.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I want to be like, you know,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: the Red has a place to exist in this world.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: It makes sense for there to be a police AJA.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: But ah, yeah, they do a lot of bad things.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: They do a lot of bad things.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: And the way Suan lied about them setting up false dragons,
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: it's just again, time and time again. I'm like, I
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: know it's a lie, but it just feels so accurate.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: It's hard for me to believe. It's a lot. It's
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: hard for me to be like.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: Especially every three thousand years you're telling me this has
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: ever happened, Like I yeah, yeah, So it's easy to
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: be okay with Therava taking complete control of Galina.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: And by the way, Glena Kit became head of the
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: Raja in eight nine to eight one, which is you
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: guessed it the year rand was born. Mm, yeah, so
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: the year he was born. She takes over the red
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: O Jaw to hunt for male channelers.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's she hasn't done a lot of redeeming acts,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: Like Roland has been a saint compared to this woman.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: Roland has redeemed himself so many times over, compared to
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: what he's made one mistake, has made right, Like, she
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: has done nothing ever to redeem herself. She's simply a
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: series of bad things. So have at her Therava make
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: her life long and miserable.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: I guess just just a series of glina best hits.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: She's instrumental to electing Elaia to sit her. She leads
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: the circle that stills Swan and Leanna. So Galina specifically
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: is the person that stilled Swan.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: Right, and she had a good time doing it, you.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: Know she did? Oh yeah, oh yeah. She kidnaps Rand.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: She orders the beatings for Rand and is the reason
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: he goes preserved.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she's the one who says, no matter if
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: Arian wants it or not, we're doing it.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm mm hmmm. Just a short little yeah, no,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: have at her throat summary of things. Yeah, go for it,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: go for it. Just remember every time you have any
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: sympathy for her, she's the reason Rand was put in
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: the box and beaten on a multi top MOLT time today.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: I'll beat men to punish Rand. If that's what, If
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: that's what will work. Yeah, yeah, no, that's a really
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: good point. Anytime, anything, all.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: This PTSD, all of that.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can't be worse to her. She was to Rand,
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: And even if she can't, I don't care.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: She put him in the box. Like that's why we
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: were talking about the box earlier, right, Like the reason
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: what's in the box Galina put rand in the box.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and like the box to get him out
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: of the palace. We could forgive that because that's just
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: spy shit. But the beating box, that's unforgivable.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: Sure, for a couple hours you put somebody in there
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: to sneak him out, No, but beating him and putting
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: him back in, no, it's not. No. And we we
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: kind of blame it on the line up for the kidnapping,
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: but no, it's Galina is the reason that, Yeah, he
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: could have been escorted back, you know, chained up in
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: a lot of ways as a prisoner, yes, but not
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: necessarily as a box specimen.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: Galina was the one who was like, yeah, know, we
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: were always going to beat him into submission. That's what
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: the Red Auja does is we beat people into submission.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: That's kind of yeah, and like only the Red Ada
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: knew that those were the instructions that we were going
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: to carry out if need be. Like, there's just like
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: layer upon layers of like she engineered this to be
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: as bad as it could be. So yeah, Therava be
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: the lights justice, even though you're also sort of the
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: worst because Savannah never would have gotten anywhere without Tharava
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: backing her up. So no, she sucks, but she doesn't
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: suck as a dark friend. So it works as a
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: punishment for an extremely bad dark friend, because of most
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: she was just a dark friend, then you'd end up
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: with like dark on dark nonsense and whatever. But like, no,
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: Tharava is committed to the light in her own very
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: twisted way. So this is this is gonna be relatively good,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: maybe so good it becomes air at Hall, but we're
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: just going to ignore that because the shadow of they're
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: not doing an.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: Air at Hall.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: They're going extinct.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: No, they'll have enough city.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: There's one thing in here I wanted to point out.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: Galina looks at the whole group. It's several hundred men,
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: women and children. Some of the men carrying women slung
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: over their shoulders, so that's got to be the chandelers.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: There's also every man and woman except the wise ones
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: was carrying at least one's spear. And they had their
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: veils face their faces veiled too, with a scarf or
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: just a scrap of cloth. What could it mean? I
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: think this is them. This is an interesting moment of
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: them trying to go full survival mode of like Okay,
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: everyone's been deputized to warrior status. Will sort it out
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: once we're somewhere safe for the time being, martial law
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: applies basically, and like literally everyone has to be part
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: of the fighting force.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: And this is where I go back to Avienda's vision
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: of the future, because one of the steps of the
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: downfall is that she thinks, oh, that was a time
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: when people had different jobs. Now everybody has to be
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: a fighter.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: Uh huh. That is one of the stages. Yes, yes, and.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: So that's when I see them starting that progression where
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: everybody's going to be a fighter and they're never going
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: to go back to having differentiated skills. Yes, And that's
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: how you have a society lose its skills, lose its knowledge,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: lose its abilities because you have nobody specializing in anything
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: but fighting, right right.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: In Avianda's vision, it's part of a protracted genocide. In
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: this case, it's you know a little bit different. But yes,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: that is the connection of like, oh, I recognize this.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: This is one of the steps in Avienda's future visions
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: that that's the connection. Yes, absolutely, all right, cool coo cool,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: And then we get mentioned if it's going to take
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: generations blah blah blah. So it's like, yeah, yeah, it
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: will take generations. This process is a generations long process,
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: whether it goes bore down either way.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but at some point you will either be murdered,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: bred out of existence, or just ignored to the point
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: of relevance where you're not even surviving in the desert because,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: like I just again, everybody's going to be a fighter.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: They're going to lose skills. So what's going to happen.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: You're gonna lose survival skills, You're going to lose foraging skills,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: you're gonna lose farming skills. It's very difficult to survive
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: in the waste if all you have is fighters.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But at the same time, it's going to be
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: very difficult to survive to the waste if you don't
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: have everyone keepers.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's a good point. Yeah, yeah, they've got a
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: long way to go.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: That's the equation that Therava is attempting to balance, is
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: how do we survive long enough to get back to
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: the waste where all those survival skills will mean anything.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: They have to cross all of and or all in
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: all of Kyriete to get back to the waste.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: They're going to miss the whole last battle trying to
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: get back to the waste and getting picked off as
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: they go. That's rough.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the other thing is like what's you know,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: all the weird stuff with the way the world's working
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: and food is spoiling, Like we never hear what happens
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: to them, but like I'm guessing they starved to death
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: because there's nothing for them to eat, like.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: Out on the caroline grass. They don't even get back
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: to the waste. They just all die in the middle
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: of the prairie or something.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's so bleakly perfect. They die lost and alone
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: in a strange land with the world turning against them
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: and even metal camp they relied on.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: And oh all those sorts of things.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so bleak and so perfect for what the
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: fuck they did to damage the ieels participation in the world. Like, oh,
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: that's perfect. Is it bad that I want them to survive?
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: So Galina doesn't get off too easy?
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: And then I think, just read us out maybe the
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: last two paragraphs.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: All right, here we go. Then we will take generations,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: Therava said firmly. We will take whatever time is necessary,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: and we will never leave the threefold land again. Her
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: gaze shifted to Galina, who flinched. You will never touch
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: this again, she said, raising the rod briefly, and you
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: will never try to escape me again. She has a
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: strong back load her and let us be on our way.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: They may try to pursue us, burdened with waterskins and
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: pots and kettles, till she almost felt decently covered. Galina
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: staggered through the forest at Therava's heels. She did not
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: think of the or escape. Something had broken in her.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: She was Galina Kaspan, highest of the Red Adja, who
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: sat on the Supreme Council of the Black Aja, and
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: she was going to Beva's little plaything for the rest
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: of her life. She was the Rava's little Lena for
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: the rest of her life. She knew that to her bones.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: Tears were silently down her face. You're out, bitch.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: That's done. Yeah, And that's man, it's hard to believe
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: that's the last parent I'm looking through being like we've
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: done the last Rand right. That was episode five hundred.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: Was the last time Jordan wrote Rand was when he
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: gets loses his hand. It's a plain wooden box.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: Are you gotta make all these said milestones, and.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: Then we've got that was the last parent, and then
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: we're gonna get some Alane. We're gonna get some Matt.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: But I don't think I don't think we're gonna get
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: any more I neive Wow or anymore A GWayne. So
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: we've done let's.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: See just spiraling in on the end of the Jordan parts,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: because even when we go back to New Spring, it's
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: gonna be Swan and Land and Moraine, like it's it's
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: none of our of our core of our core people.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, Lane and Marianne are pretty core.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: The last A GWayne chapter was Honey in the Tea
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: that Jordan wrote. That was when she basically wins her
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: battle in the White Tower to be accepted. You know,
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: she sort of realizes what she's going to how she's
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: gonna win the battle in the White Tower.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: It's not even actually winning the battle, that's just her
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: having thoughts about winning the battle.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: The last ninive is when she put Land through the gateway.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: At least Jordan got to get the Golden crane going.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So and I think that's it for the Emmons
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: Field five. We've done that. That's the last of each
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: one of them is like, we haven't done the last Matt.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: We haven't done the last Awayne, but we've done the
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: last nine Eve, We've done the last Ran, and we've
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: done the last pairn.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: Wait, it is the last Awayne. Honey in the tea?
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: Oh it is honey in the tea? Not yet?
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: No, we did that already.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we have done the last yes, last Away.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we just haven't done the last Matt and Elaine. Sorry,
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: did I say I said away instead of Lane?
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, you said it backwards. But she's not Emmsfield five,
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: which is why I was confused.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: You sure, sure Emmonsfield. I do think of her as one.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: Of them, though, Yeah, no exactly because her.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: Aanda and men sort of get put in there. It's
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: the Emmonsfield five plus the Romance three.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: Plus rans harm.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: Because I guess if you if them, I guess if
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: I think of you got Mmonsfield five plus the people
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: they love. Right, So you've got rands three, you've got
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: fai Jeel. I don't include two On in that.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, two On doesn't get to be in that exalted company.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: Fuck that bitch. No, but we can allow Moraine and
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: landin as the parents. Of the group.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And also nine sort of ends up being well.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: She's in Msfield five, so she's fine. She was already
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: in the original count I guess you can let Tom
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: in there.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, but I'm saying, is you really core If
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: Land and Moraine are the parents, it's weird that I
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: need dates Land.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, well Moraine and Tom can be the parents.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: Then there were Yes, Yes, I like that because they're
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: the ones who are actually together and.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: They and they're the ones who really shepherd the kids
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: in a more like taking control. I mean, Land just
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: helps Moraine. Right. Land doesn't take a lot of agency
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: in what he's doing. He's just helping Mareene and then
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: he's helping ninety. But nonetheless he's always helping someone else.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: But Tom takes agency in a way that Land just
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: would never dream, right, right, And I don't like Tom
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: Moraine per se, But in this schema, it makes sense
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: for them to be the parents of the found family.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: So if the Emmonsfield five is the family, the extended family, Yeah, yeah, Tom, Moraine, Land,
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: Rand's three girlfriends fayeel. I think that's where it stopped there. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Matt has not partnered up with someone who's worthy
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: of being in the family.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: I mean maybe Burgida, you could not almost fit her
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: in there, but I.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: Don't yeh No, those are friends of the family. They're
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: not in the extended family. They're just friends of the family.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: Right's pretty close. But also she's dead now she's a
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: hero of the Horn, like you know, it's very close friend.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like that's the same tier with like
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: nol Yes.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: That's literally who I was thinking of, or like tom
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: hon Is. I mean, honestly, Talmnus could be part of
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: the family if Matt would just admit that he's a
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: bisexual disaster.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: And who's the hat who wears the hat?
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, Julian Julian jul No, honestly, Matt needs to just
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: pair up with Nlysi and fuck to on and just
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: like be with not Lucian Tom Honis throws. Yeah, Mat
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: just needs to be with Tomnis and then Talmanis can
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: be in the family because he's cool.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: And I still think of Matt Elaine getting together would
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: be kind of interesting.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: God, they would make so many things blow up like
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: them and Eludra like so many city walls would have
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: holes in them, like it would be a move, like
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: they would get Napoleonic on that ship. So fun, it
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: would be such a problem.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: Elaine being like, you know, for the safety of the world,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: we have to conquer it, and Matt being like, all right,
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: I'm leading.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: Fuck, I guess I'm damn it exactly Like, oh my god, like,
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: do not allow those two to team up?
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: Elaine gives me princess bubblegum vibes. If you've watched Adventures, Yes, okay,
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: fair enough, there's a very much conquering the world for
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: its own safety vibe going on there.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: That's Elaine for sure.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, sure, she.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: Thinks that she'll she'll nobly sacrifice herself to ruling the world.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: It's like, maybe we could have slightly more anarchy than that.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, her, her, I guess, I guess I'll be the
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: queen because I'm just the only one who understands how
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: to sacrifice for the queen ship, how to be a
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: real should just.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: Pay your fair share in taxes and live in a
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: reasonable size house.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: All right. Well, that that was a surprisingly fun chapter.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: I just I enjoyed that. It just it took a
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: while to get there, but there was a lot going
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: on A lot of interesting stuff. I enjoyed talking about Aaron.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: I enjoyed talking about Galina's crimes.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a really that was a really good
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: payoff chapter. That was it a lot not just of
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: the literal payoff, but like good stuff to talk about
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: around that payoff and how it matters, and good character
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: moments of like par and smashing a man's head in
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: and then immediately hugging his wife like it was. It was.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: It was a good chapter. That was a really solid chapter.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: And I'm not really that surprised that we managed to
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: talk for over two hours about it.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: No, me neither. It's We've had a series of very
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: good chapters. I feel like, I mean, we're at the
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: end of us.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: This is a good part. This is a good part
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: of the series of dreams.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: This is just one of the best writing and just
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: so much payoff happening right and so much obviously like
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: closing out plot lines because we were going to have
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: the last battle next.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, was back in the groove. He was pulling stuff together.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: He was getting to like harvest fruits he had sown
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: years ago, and it's just everything is clicking along real
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: smooth right now in the writing and.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: I gotta say my only regret about the last three
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: books is there are some called dangling plot lines, rotting fruit,
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: some unfinished business, whatever you want to call it. There's
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: some things that just Jordan didn't put in his notes
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: and Sanderson didn't address. And so we have some characters
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: that get dropped, some plot lines that get dropped, some
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: unanswered questions, and some just more than any of that,
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: some really good setups that never get used, some Chekhov's
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: guns that stay on the wall. And that makes me
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: more sad, I think, than something like Matt's bad characterization. Yeah.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's easier to forgive characterizations than plot
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: stuff because you can actually like skim out mark out
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: what the plot should be. In a way that character
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: is harder like characters. It's sportlier in a way that's
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: like plot is like, yeah, it's right there, just.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: Use it, use it. He said that, right, Well there,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: you know. And something else that I think I've really
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: come to realize over the course of this podcast is
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: that Sanderson wrote the last three books with the same
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: understanding you and I had before we started the podcast. Sure,
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: and I feel like we have a much deeper, better
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: understanding of what Jordan was intending and going for having
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: done this deep dive. Sanderson just didn't have six years
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: to study the books before he started writing them. Could have,
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: but he was a fan, but he never. I don't
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: honestly don't think Sanderson went as deep into the.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: Watch podcasts just didn't exist as a phenomenon when he
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: was a fan, Like we became a pin on after
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: he finished the series, Like there's a necessary order of
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: operations there that we just have to forgive him for,
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: Like these podcasts, us and everyone else wouldn't have existed
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: because the books weren't done, and the toll that this
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: is all this falls out because the.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: Pot right right, and so like yes, yes, no, I understand,
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: I understand, you know. It's just it's hard for me
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: to to love the final three books as much as
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: I should when I'm like, Okay, the person writing these
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: didn't know the characters as well as I did.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: Well, we can rewrite them, Okay, Okay, we can we
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: just after the podcast.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: There might be a awful lot of this is how
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: the chapter should have gone in the Sanderson stuff. I
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: feel so much safer being able to say that because
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: what we're reading in the last three books is Sanderson's
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: take on Jordan's story. And I don't mind being like, no, no, no,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: I can come up with a better day.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: We can do that. There's nothing says we can't do that.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: And then of course people we'll be like, yeah, but
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: the stuff you're criticizing is the stuff that Jordan actually
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: wrote and left behind them, Like, yeah, but it needed
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: to get edited.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: We've been saying that for some books now.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, yeah, and the man needs an editor,
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, Like, yeah, than Harriet, Uh.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean she has an All I'd say is
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: it's not erase Harriet. We're saying we want to replace her.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and my understanding is a lot of the
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: books that we say need editing, part of the reason
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: they need editing is because they literally did not have
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: the time to edit them. Yeah.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: So now we get to blame capitalism.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, he was so close to the published deadline that essentially,
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: and because he was such a big author, they let
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: him do that in a way they wouldn't let normal
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: authors do. And so the books just didn't get that
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: level of the slog books as we described them. You know,
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: seven through ten did not get the kind of attention
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: in the edit room that some of the other books did.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: That's my loose understanding of why the editing might not
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: be as tight on those books.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't know shit about shit, but I am
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: very content to blame capitalism and patriarchy for creating a
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: situation in which we got a subpar productally from that team.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: Totally why not capitalism can take it.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: And again, you and I we talked about the slog
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: being real, but the only books I actually didn't enjoy
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: was Crossroads.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: We did a lot of bitching for Crossroads and Winter's Heart.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of bitching in Winter's Heart.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, some of Winter's Heart was those Winter's Heart were
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: parts of it that I could have pult have skimmed
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: over a little faster.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: But like our second past through the podcast, we'll just
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: through the series. We'll just completely re edit the books
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: to suit our tastes.
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, well, well this is where I've
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: talked about.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: Making exactly I know exactly the books, and yes, that
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: is what I'm saying is.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: We need to re edit the series. Honestly, the Watts
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: Spoilers book series of wheel Time wouldn't change anything spoilers cuts.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: The wat spoiler's cut wouldn't change anything through the first
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: seven books. No, not a thing through in.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: A few days. For men, that could be.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: Fun, sure maybe if yeah, they maybe cut a few
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: things so our head cannon can be.
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly. Sure up our own head cannon with foreshadow.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly exactly. But then book eight nine, ten would
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: be one. Book eleven would be pretty much untouched, and
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: then we would rewrite twelve through fourteen, but steal blatantly
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: from what's in twelve three.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly. We would take the parts that are
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: good and then like conclude the plots we needed concluded.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: Right right. A lot of Parent stuff would be you're written,
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: A lot of Matt' stuff would be rewritten, which.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: We would know Jordan didn't write any of that. We
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: know for a fact that Sanderson had one line of
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: to work with about Parent, so anything about Paren would
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: be completely fair game to say, no, Jordan, you did
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: not throw out a Jordan piece, because we know that's
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: all Sandy.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: So the whole relationship between the Sean Chan, Parrien and Matt,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: I think is something that I would rewrite that whole
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: like everything about those three groups and their interactions could be.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we would take I would keep.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: Some of the parent then Slayer stuff.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: The Laren Slayer stuff was dope like Sanderson, because tell
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: Irenriotte is the kind of place where Sanderson's magic breaking
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: brain just fucking goes. Like Jordan was already had finally
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: created a space where you could break the rules and
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: was beginning to play with that's it for Sanderson to
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: get in there and use that was like, Okay, no,
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: I believe this. Jordan totally set this up to be
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: this way. I love all the Slayer shit. I don't
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: really love Slayer. We could do a little bit with
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: his ending, but I love all the parent Slayer in
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: until I run. We can just keep that, yeah, for sure.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: And I would alter the Rand Dark One Fane stuff
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: a little bit because I would want to integrate Faine
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: into that battle a little bit more and have him
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: become part of the last battle, right. I want Faine
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: to somehow infect the Dark One's prison or replace the
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: Dark One, or in some way be the yin to
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: the Dark One's Yang of Evil.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, there's so much there with like the Dark
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: One being the seeds of his own destruction. With respect
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: to Rand, it would totally make sense that Fain comes
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: in and like stabs the Dark One in the back
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: or whatever, like right.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: Right this whole like Rand decides that he doesn't want
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: to kill the Dark One, spares the Dark One. Faint
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: comes in and says, no, the Dark One must die,
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: pulls a smell, right, and like kills the dark One,
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: but then becomes the new dark One because he gets
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: sucked into the prison and Rand creates a new prison
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: around him because the Dark One's dead, and that prison
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: is the Dark Ones's dead, right and also right because
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: I believe tell around Riod is the dark One's prison, right,
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: that's the layer that is created.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: Huh, yeah, we can we can make that true.
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: In this you could, yes, you can actually like but
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: you can have like the Teller and Reod fall apart
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: completely because that's the dark One's prison. And then Rain
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: recreates it out of threads of the pattern to create
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: a new prison around Fame.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: And it's like he is the dreamer of the whole
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: world because the dream ends like for the IEA, like
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: their whole thing about the dream lending. Then like he
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: literally recreates and that would be so cosmological for the
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: whole world to just be the world, the prison of
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: the world's existential threat, to be contained in the dream
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: of his mind that is also the dream of the world.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: Like the dragon is one with the land, the dragon
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: is one with everyone's subconscious psyche like manifest space. See,
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: this would be so much more fun.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: Right awayn Agwayne doesn't fucking die.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: And Gwainn doesn't fucking die, nor is she pregnant with
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: anyone's fucking baby.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: But Matt does. No, we do a lot more with
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: Llewellyn and GWayne, like the reason Agwayne doesn't die as
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: well and saves her life, right Dollin.
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: Gowin goes out, maybe fine, we can keep that.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's fine, can die?
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Lylwin helps Agway get through everything, helps her
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: heal her shan Chan trauma, like down to the point
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: of being able to like actually work with like dismantling
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: and restructuring the shan Chin Empire for channelers properly mm hmm.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: Right, because she has the shan Chan who she trusts,
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: so she has credibility with the sean Chan and with
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: this new Empress was of course coming around because She
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: has a relationship with Matt, who has made her promise
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: to stop enslaving Channelers.
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: Even though Matt's died. Now she's doing Victoria and holding
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: true to that promise, even though she only knew the
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: man for like five minutes right right now. She wouldn't
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: do that. That would be very ood of character. We will
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: workshop that. That's not that's not what she would do,
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: But we'll figure that out somehow. We can just kill her,
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: she can die, that'd be fine.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we do need to. We need someone. She does
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: kind of is the ruler. We don't have someone else
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: to rule the shan Chan.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and dismantling the shan Chan empire is a big
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: outrigger of an ask, shall we say?
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: Right? Right? So? Yeah, and that's one where like killing
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: off Matt does make that a more difficult task, right,
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: it lets me have.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: So and actually having a change of heart in preceding
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: books that would allow her to springboard even with Matt
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: being dead, which like we haven't seen, but we could.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: Make, right, We could make that happen earlier on with
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: Matt and Tuon in their relationship and basically not have
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: them split up and go their separate ways. At the
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: end of this book, but they have them come back
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: together and have her be.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: Like she keeps Sitala as her truth speaker and like
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: actually fucking learn from her, Like.
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: She yeah, oh that would be fantastic. Yeah. She goes
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: back to the shan Chan, she tests, she realizes that
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 2: the whole yeah souldalm can channel two thing is real,
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: and then she goes back to Matt and says, Okay, now,
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: what what do we do?
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't have to consider it waste of potential
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: as we get to the last three, because it's all
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: just fan fick after the original author does right, and
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: we can just steal shamelessly as long as we're playing
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: in our own sandbox. It's clearly labeled as such. No
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: one can fucking take it.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you this. There's a lot that can be
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: done there that we've sort of these these dangling plot
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: threads that we've been like, oh and this this got.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: Dropped, and then we could make it a little like
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: animated visual series just goes totally rogue. The most rogue.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: See this is this is actually how the show gets
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: ruined because like that the writers did the same thing.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: They're like, you know, we truly know what Jordan really meant,
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 2: and we're going to write our own story and it's
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: so good it no no, And then we got the
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: TV show.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: Except that I don't think that everyone would like ours.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: I just think that we would like ours, and it
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: would be better. I would love ours better for us
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: and our fans. And that's enough.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: You know, we're starting with we're not changing anything in
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: the first seven books, right, Like that's like the show
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: didn't get nearly that far.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: Art is so fun and subjective. That's a beautiful thing. Mark.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: This is why we know that RG made such a
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: good piece of art, is because it does not stop
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: inspiring feelings and emotions and reactions, whether they're good, bad,
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: or indifferent. Well, there's none that's in different, right, Everyone
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: has a strong reaction, and there's so many creative sparks
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: that you can take away from it, Like he really
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: did give us an endless cornucopia of magic.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: And again I've said this so many times, but the
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: way the series changes as I age and reread it
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: and reread it and interact with it in different ways
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: as different persons and with different experiences. I take different
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: things from it almost every time. And I keep expecting
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: that to stop. I like, and I was like, Oh,
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: at least once I've done this podcast, i won't have
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: anything else to learn. And I'm going back and listening
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: to being like, oh, except all this shit that I've missed.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've definitely. I mean, currently I'm working on trying
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: to re listen through the end books because that's where
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: we're going next. So I'm trying to like really like
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: do my homework and like listen, like for my job.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: Where I'm coming at is saying, Okay, all of this
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: stuff in the end, I'm looking for the foreshadowing. I'm
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: looking for the stuff in the beginning that was really
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: talking about the ending stuff, so that when we get
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: to it, I can be like, oh, yeah, I remember
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: in book three when we uh when blah blah blah
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: said blah blah blah, Because that's really where I think
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: it's going to be interesting to come at those last
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: three books and be like, where was the foreshadowing for that?
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: Where did we hear? Yeah?
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing, right is that's the original motivation
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: behind the podcast. But it's literally been so long and
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: we're so deep in the weeds that like, I don't
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: fucking remember the beginning, Like it totally makes sense to
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: be like, now that we're approaching the end, remember all
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: the foreshadowing that got the podcast started in the beginning.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: Like it's truly too big to hold in your head
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: all at once.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: It is, it really is.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: It truly is despite this massive body of work we're
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: creating that's attempting to do that. It's like, and yet
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: we're still having to do sectional. He reads through it
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: through the process. That's wild, It's amazing.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: It's why the reread never ends. We even with this podcast,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: even with this level, because the more detail you go into,
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 2: the longer it takes, and then then the more you forget,
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: and then but if you do a faster reread, you
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 2: don't get all the detail, and so you can always
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: dig in deeper.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: It's it's just the gift that keeps on giving.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: I love the way I gesture Zoom keeps thinking I'm
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: doing giving something thumbs up and popping an emoji thumbs
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 2: up on the screen, so I will do it. Actually no, yeah,
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: ignores my action. But if I gesture this.
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: For a while, then like balloons will come up. I
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: don't know. It happens to Ali all the time, just
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: you know, one too, like gesturing, just counting, but like
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh that was a gesture. Then you do
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: it on purpose and it's.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: Like for yourself. Thanks zoom. I'm so happy we're burning
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: tons of energy on AI. It's really made my life better.
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's great how the minuscule progress we've
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: made and against climate change has been completely wiped out
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: by the proliferation of AI bullshit. I think that that's
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: like super excellent.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: AI and pitcoin, I think are pretty much have ended
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: any progress we've ever made on climate change.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: It's my favorite.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Ah, so yeah, if you ever want to know
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 2: our fine fathered men theory, you'll have to come to
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: the live shows.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: That's only for the people who are in live chat
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: right now. It was not recorded, it will not be repeated.
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: It's only for the gods and the people who showed
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: up for.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: Truly any theory. Okay, but I will have to say
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: I've been doing a re listen right because I feel
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: like it's been long enough since the early books for
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: me now, I mean we're years out since we've I've
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: done podcasts on them that actually have some distance. I've
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: forgotten some things and I can form new opinions again, right,
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 2: because the problem was I was having is re listening
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: to them and I was like kind of stuck because
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: I was just re sort of litigating arguments we'd had.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: But now I'm like, oh wait, I kind of forget
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: some stuff. So I've sort of been texting a radia
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: or discording you like little d ms every time I
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: kind of feel like I find.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: Something readappening on the back burner.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: It's great. Yeah, And so like I just I feel
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: like there's a few of them I have to like
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: go through and read off as I scroll through. So
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: this the edit this down so it makes sense because
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: it can me long pauses where I like look for
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: the next one in the text I've sent you. Yes, okay,
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: so reading the first book this is I think this
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: is actually book four, right, Lord Luke comes in after
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: killing Trollocks and Phades right drops.
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's book four, Book four.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: He drops, you know, Fade's head on the ground, and
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: then he grows off and he's riding a black horse,
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 2: and the horse is described exactly like a Fades horse.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: So just in case he's not a bad guy, I
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: think Lord Luke is riding a FAD's horse.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: That totally makes sense. He's just shadow touched enough to
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: be able to like contact with that sort of a creature.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 2: And like he went, hey, guys, give me a horse,
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: because that's he's leading fades. He's the reason he has
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: Fate's heads is because he's killing them when they fail him.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: Right, And I'll take your horse. Yeah, And the horse
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: is like, you are not technically a fade, but you're
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: close enough that I'm gonna allow it for whatever reason.
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: Because he's a horse, he's a dark horse, whisper right.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: He rides a quote all all black house horse, all
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: black horse, all right. So, and I think this might
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: actually be an origins But I was reading through and
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 2: su On pulls a fake name. Her fake name is
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: Mara Tomanes, right, Mara Tomans Mamanes. I think I think
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: that's Jordan adapting Marissa Tomay, who's an actress who's very
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: popular at that right now. And I think that basically
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: he identically he thinks Suan looks like Marissa Tomay, and
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: that's who he pictures whenever he's describing her, because that
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: fake name is remarkably similar. It's just like, take the
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: back end of Marissa and put it on her last name,
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: and you get that fake name. And that's what he
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: loves to do, is just rearrange it.
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see it. I can see his descriptions
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: of Swan matching with the pinteresque mood board of this
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: woman's na I can see it. I can definitely see it.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: This is when she's in brain Wood, right, and she
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: this is the fake name she gives to Gareth Brynn.
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: Right, this is her weirdly youthful phase when Brynn is
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: just falling in love with her because she looks young
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: enough to be his daughter. And that's not creepy, let's
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: not unpack her. It's when she's going through that process
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: of discovering that she looks different than she did as
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: a young woman. Right, She's like this d oath thing
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: that has happened to me, Like, I don't look like
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: I did as a young woman. I look prettier, you know.
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: It's like a weird Jordan thing, like when Seline's like,
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: my true self is a slightly older, hotter version of myself.
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: Like it's weird Jordan y energy. But like I can
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: definitely see him looking at this woman and being like, yeah,
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: that's the like old but young energy that is in
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: my brain.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, now, I swear I send you a bunch more
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: of these, but I'm not necessarily finding them because we
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 2: end up sending each other a lot of messages. You
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: should have pinned them or something something. Yeah, No, I
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: don't really have. Uh, I should have done the work
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: to I thought I could just scroll through and find
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: them really quick, but.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: They're yeah, I thought you send me several. Well, I
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: guess I'm no. I'm going to try to scroll up too,
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: like that's gonna help. Yeah, it's when when did you
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: start sending these messages because it might have been a
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: while ago. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you should
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: do your homework better.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: I really should. Yeah. No, I really sucked at my
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: homework today's but that's what editing's for, right, Yeah. Do
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: we have we talked about our plan for the wedding
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: at all? For schedule stuff.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: Last recording, you were saying that you were rethinking your
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 1: feelings about taking September off, and that, of course throws
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: all of our scheduling plans into absolute chaos because we've
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: been I've been operating under the assumption that we're taking
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: September off and making adjustments to guest schedules and everything.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: You know how sometimes I'm dumb.
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: You're definitely going to need to take time off for
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: the week of end of the week after, because the
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: those two weeks are going to fly by so fast
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: that there's absolutely no way that the recording will fit
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: in there. But you do have the entire month of
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: September blocked offf currently. That is what our schedule currently reflects.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: That is how I have been talking to people that
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: want to do guest spots.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: The only thing I was thinking is, you know, maybe
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: like September third, is that first Tuesday? Right, And that's
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: still like a ways out right, But yeah, no, my
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 2: brain is already pretty much thinking about wedding stuff twenty
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: four to seven.
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: We've noticed.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: We exactly yes, yes, okay, fair enough. Yeah, it's it's
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: I didn't think it would consume you this much. But
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: you know that there's a certain amount of because we're
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: doing it ourselves mostly we're not hiring a lot of
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: people to do it. There's actually more planning involved and
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: and more coordination than I really anticipated, because I think
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of people just spend the money so that
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: they can just say the bartender the bar is doing drinks,
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: the caterers are doing the food, the decorators are doing
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: decorations and stuff like that, and we're like, no, we're
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: gonna We're gonna get there a day early and do
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: the decorations. I'm making the cake myself, or getting the
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: food picked up and having it, you know, buffet style
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: so everyone can serve themselves. We're picking up the alcohol
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: and having that buffet style so people can open bar themselves.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: Whatever that I've got cider that I'm making, never is
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: going to put together mixed drinks.
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: You're not supposed to host your own wedding. You're supposed
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: to get married.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, parents are supposed to help you financially too,
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: and that's not happening. So that's a lie. My parents
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: did give me some a little bit of money to
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 2: help with the wedding, so but yeah, not enough to
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: pay a bunch people do the work. Yeah.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: Well, in theory, your friends volunteer their time, their energy,
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: and sometimes even the keg of beer.
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah no, that's fair, that's fair. My friends are on
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 2: top of a lot of that, but some of it,
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: you know, like, I think it's fun to be like, hey,
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: I made this cake myself, right like that i'lcohol you drinking.
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: I made that myself. Like, there's some fun and a
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: lot that I can do way ahead of time. So
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: on the day of I'm not doing shit.
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: Well, you were oscillating wildly between saying that you've taken
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: on the right amount of work and you've taken on
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: too much work. So I'll just let you decide and
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: then you can get back to me.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 2: Because how we feel about that, I'm wildly oscillating between
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: this is going to be a drastic success and a
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 2: incredible failure.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: So it's going to be fantastic. I can tell the
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: future and it's a speaking of men exactly exactly.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to it.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be great. It's gonna be great
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: because all your friends are going to make it be great,
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: and we're going to tell you to go sit the
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: fuck down before you pass out.
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: Have some kate right here?
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly.
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: All right, Uh, where are we at. Let's get into
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: this chapter because I feel like unless there's anything else
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: we won't need to touch that's off topic. Do we
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: need to follo up on wat con it all or no?
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: Okay no, I think yeah, I had literally just left
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: a half an hour of us talking about our lives
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: on episode five oh one, Like didn't even put it
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: at the end, Like I'm just like, no, you just
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: all can skip ahead half an hour if you want
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: to get to the book. I put it in the description.
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: I put it as a chapter in the file, like
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: you want to skip the life updates, go ahead to
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: minute thirty three, Like, go right ahead. I have normally
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: I put that shit at the end, but I'm too
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: fucking tired, too tired to do that. So deal, I
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: don't even have editing a radio voice on board, Like no,
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: you're just getting it straight away from Wow.
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's that's conn burn out. I bought my tickets
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: for next year though, Oh good. I think I did
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: get a coworker who has always wanted to be involved
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: in the fandom into coming to the column. So that's
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 2: always fun. Someone who's a little bit older, you know,
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 2: in his in his fifties, and never he's like, I've
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 2: never really connected with the fandom. I didn't really know
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 2: what was out there, but but I am constantly re
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: listening to wheel time over and over and over again,
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, I was like, you need you need
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 2: to go to walk on. I'm sorry, Like what con.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: Is the perfect community? It's so funny, dude, how much
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: everyone in the entire goddamn world except for you is
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: like you have to buy a good mic, and you
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: have to export and wave and it has to be
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 1: in stereo. That is the conventional wisdom fucking everywhere. And
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: like you are just like, nah, seems like empty is
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: good for the human am my, stepdad and me, just
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: like the lived experiences Like yeah, no, one seems really
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: the mic doesn't matter, you guys. The room matters, like
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: the way the way the file type doesn't. I don't
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: need waves, I don't need stereo. You just need mono
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: MP three. Like there's points zero zero one percent of
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: the population that can hear the difference on a goddamn
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: podcast recorded in your living room.
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the the limitters are probably the the speaker people
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 2: are listening on, because most people are listening either with
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 2: head MUDs or on their freaking phone speaker right, which
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: can't reproduce most of the frequencies anyway. Yeah, and then
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 2: and who needs stereo? You're listening to a single point
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: voice from a single source.
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: You are not a symphony. No, you might be making
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: good points, but you are not a symphony. You do
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 1: not need a full panning room to make to make
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 1: a sense of space. It's not a thing.
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: And so all of those things, because here's the thing.
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 2: I come from an old school world where pop podcast
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 2: size mattered. The size of the file in which you
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 2: were downloading was a big deal because podcasts existed pretty
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 2: early on in the Internet when it took time to
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 2: download them, right, And so the difference between a forty
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: megabyte hour long thing and a two hundred or three
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: hundred long or five hundred megabyte file was huge. Right.
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 2: And then also what kind of quality were you getting
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: out of that? Right? So, given a certain file size,
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: mono MP three's high quality MP three's, right, I'm not
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 2: talking one hundred and twenty eight bit. I think we
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: used two fifty six K like we use a high quality.
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 2: We might even use five to twelve for exporting. Right,
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 2: these are high quality MP three's. They have more than
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: enough data for our voices.
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's it's just funny how few people seem
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: to grasp that. Because I've heard zero complaints about our
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: audio quality. No, I hear complains about our content, but
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: not the quality.
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: Not the quality. And it's just like and and and
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: it's been that way since the beginning. And it's like, yeah,
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 2: you have to get a you have a minute, you
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 2: have to get a minimum quality mic. Right. There are
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 2: bad mics. Yeah, there are some twenty five dollars mics
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 2: that you know, I wouldn't use that are that are
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: that are technically microphones but basically wouldn't work on a
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: child's toy, right, like when you hear them and it's
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 2: all mechanical voice. Yeah potato yeah, but yeah, exactly potato quality.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: But like that that and that used to the problem
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 2: is that used to be you used to spend three
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 2: hundred dollars to get out of potato microphone quality. Right
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 2: now now potato microphone quality is fifty bucks, right, So
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: there's no excuse to have of a potato microphone anymore
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 2: if you're recording a podcast. And other than that, it's
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 2: your room.
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which most people like are not changing their room
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: in the slightest And it's like, well at that point,
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: stop worrying.
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 2: And then it's your mic discipline, right, like are are
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: you blowing into the microphone? Do you have a cloned
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: enough to your mouth for the kind of microphone that
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 2: it is. If it's a condenser mic, right, it's going
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 2: to pick up the whole room, right, or maybe I
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: have that backwards. I always forget which ones which, but
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 2: like one of them picks up the whole room. Yeah,
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: and one of them. And we have we both have
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 2: mics that are more room based, so we don't have
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 2: to eat them. We have them sort of a foot
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: to six inches from our mouth, right, as opposed to
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 2: some of those, like a microphone that you want on stage,
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 2: you really only want to pick.
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: Up that's a condenser, And yeah, you got to eat
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: those things. I've done stage performance. I know the I
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: know mic technique for singing into our rock mic on stage.
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: That's the mic technique tradition I've been trained in. Podcast
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: mic is very different.
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, and so, but some people get condenser's mic. Condenser
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: mics don't eat them and try and record a podcast
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 2: and the signal is so small that you can't hear.
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: Them, or they do eat them, and then you hear
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: nothing but their mouth moving and the content is completely
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: lost in the just mechanical sounds of their.
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 2: Or people try and eat a room mic, right and
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 2: then yeah, yeah, same result. Right, So there's there's certain
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 2: things you can do. But like, yeah, people like how
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 2: much money you always spend on a mic. I'm like
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 2: between fifteen one hundred bucks.
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. It's like, if you're not going to change
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: the room, don't spend more than two hundred dollars. Yeah,
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: just if you're not going to do anything in the room,
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: then do not be spending more than two hundred dollars.
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 2: Just don't because all that microphone is going to do
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 2: is pick up your poor room quality sound with more fidelity.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: Right, And like maybe you'll improve your audio space, So
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: it's worth investing a little bit more. So that way,
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: when you do decide to move into the closet or whatever, like,
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: you have a mic that will rise to the challenge.
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 1: But like, yeah, it's uh, it's it's funny to me
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: how much audio quality doesn't matter to most people. It
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: really doesn't. Most people just have not trained their ears
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 1: to be able to hear what you need to hear
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: in order to tell the difference with any of this stuff.
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: And you and I know that because we listen to NPR,
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 2: and NPR frequently has poor audio quality on it, and
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 2: it's like it's national radio. He goes across the entire
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 2: country and off and the quality is terrible, absolutely terrible.
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: They're recording it on an office phone. I just cannot
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: sometimes thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: Spoilers podcast. Rate us in the Apple Podcast app, or
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: support us on Patreon. That good enough.