Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 39

Transcript

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 39 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: missing day thirty nine. With so many agents, so much
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: forensic technology, how can we not find an eighty four
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: year old grandma? Tonight? Breaking regarding the tattoo we've all
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: been studying, an expert joins us with all of the
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: clues that are left behind because of that one sliver
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: on the purpse wrist, and also, why not release the
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: ransom notes at this juncture? Couldn't the vernacular the verbiage
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: in that ransom note reveal to some people who the
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: kidnapper is. How can we trace the email? Was that
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: the way it was conveyed? I'm Nancy Grace, this is
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: It's like he didn't expect the camera to be working,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: and then he has to backtrack and try to cover it.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: He's like, what, maybe I can beat it to death,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: and then got the big surprise when maybe he saw
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: the camera blinking.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: What we're looking at here is likely some kind of
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: vandalism that took place.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Joining us an all star paneltmic sense of what we
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: are learning tonight in the search for Nancy Guthrie. We
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: do know that authorities have asked Mexican residents to pull video.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Is that being done in the Nancy Guthree case? Joining
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: us right now a special guest, Darren the Dude Russa
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Darren tattoo artist of Rising Dragon Tattoos in New York City,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: thirty plus years perfecting artistry in Japanese fantasy, American traditional
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: and bowl style tattoo at Rising Dragon dot Com. And
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: the Dude Rosa. Thank you for being with us. I
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: know you have carefully studied the perpse wrist. Let's see
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: the video of the porch guy approaching the front door
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: of Nancy Guthrie's home. They are intuson the video. Now
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: notice he's got his body totally covered long sleeves, gloves,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: possibly two sets of gloves, face covering the works. Now
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: wait for it. At some point he reaches up to
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: dismantle or up the door cam or obfuscate his own moves,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: and when he does that much is revealed. Now we
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: know that the FBI has a tattoo data bank largely
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: gleaned from gang memberships. It includes gail tattoos, it includes felons.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: They're not members of gangs. And their tattoos. Whenever person
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: has a tattoo that is entered in writing in typed
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: writing on their booken report every tattoo, every mark on
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: their body. Very often those tattoos are photographed at the
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: time of booking to identify the perp. We also know
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: that Arizona has a gang tattoo database. We also know
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: about tag tattoo and Graffiti, a special elite team in
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Quantico that analyzes tattoos and graffiti of all sorts, even
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: from foreign countries. Now, let's zoom in on the tattoo.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Let's zoom in and take a look at the tattoo,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: the sliver app tattoo between the sleeve and the glove
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: straight out to daring the dude, Rosa. You have studied
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: this and what if anything have you learned?
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, very interesting watching that footage with you. With you,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: first of all, it looks like he took care to
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: cover himself. He's got the hoodie, the gloves. It looks
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: like he's right handed. He keeps preferring that hand when
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: he's when he's trying to cover the ring cam the
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: very sliver. I see black and gray work. I can
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: see some subtle shading on the edges of the crease.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: It looks like to me it's most likely a full sleeve,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: especially because he took.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on just a second. You've gone deaf con
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: four on me, Darren, the dude, I want to talk
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: to you. You said you see black and gray work.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: For those not familiar with the gang affiliation tattoos, what
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: does black and gray mean to you?
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, Well, it's a prevalence, especially with the Mexican cartel
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: or the Chicano gangs.
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: They prefer a style.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: Where the outline of the tattoo is a single needle
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: and the majority of the tattoo is shaded with levels
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: of black ink we refer to as black and gray.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, look at the photo. Tell me what you're saying.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I think I know what you're saying regarding black and gray.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: But explain to the viewers, please.
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, we can see some form and then
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: on edges, it looks like some shading in between the
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: black forms. You know, just based on the location in
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: New Mexico, California, all of the neighboring states, there's a
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: high prevalence of these kind of gangs and this is
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: the preferred method of of tattooing that that they alike
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: and they appreciate, and they also use to identify members
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: of the gang. And I would you know, besides covering
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: his fingerprints, assume that he's also has hands tattoos and
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: that you know, like to have your wrist tattooed. People
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: don't normally go out of their way to just have
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: their wrist tattooed. Most likely he is very heavily tattooed,
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: he has tattoos on his hands, and it's probably a
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: gang of affiliation some time.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, Darren, the dude rosa joining us from New York City.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: He is at Rising Dragon Tattoos. Okay, Darren, I want
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: to follow up on something that you just said. Sure,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: you stated that an individual would not go out of
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: their way just to have their risk tattooed. What did
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: you mean by that?
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: What I meant by that?
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: You know, and kind of goes to my first point.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: This guy is you know, I would put all the
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: money in my pocket that this guy is very heavily tattooed.
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: He has quote unquote.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: Sleeves, So I would say we're looking for a heavily
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: tattooed individual. He's wearing the bacleava I. You know, I
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: put more money down and he probably has neck tattoos.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: This is the this is you know how they like
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: to get tattooed.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, let me see Darren, Darren Rossa joining us. I say,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: you have a neck tattoo. Are you telling me that
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: no one will go either way just to get a
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: risk tattoo? Therefore? Nice? Is that the devil? Is it
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: the devil?
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: I showed my neck tattoos because they're any color? Is
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: that the devil?
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Is that the devil on your neck? What is that?
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: Oh? No, it's a dragonhead.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, I see it better now, Okay, I'm glad to
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: know it's not Satan himself. Now back to this, Okay,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. Every time I have dealt with
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: a defendant or a witness that had anything on the wrist,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: it was part of a larger tattoo. Always the only
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: time I've seen a singular wrist tattoo. Okay, let's use
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Angelina Jolie as an example. Okay, maybe a female might
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: get a DMB.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: Or some little yeah, they get a little infinity loop
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: or like their grandfather's initials or something. But you know
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: this guy is absolutely heavily tattooed, and it's oh yeah,
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: it's amazing. What that We even got that sliver from
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: that ring camera like props to the race.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah tell it, Google, Google did it? So, Darren, you
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: are confident, based on thirty plus years in the tattoo business,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: that this guy has a full sleep translation from here
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: up covering the arm like a sleep. That's what a
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: sleeve means.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: He's probably covered everywhere and especially why you know, okay,
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: he doesn't want to be seen. He's wearing a baklava,
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: but I would hands down bet he's also got neck
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: tattoos and probably something near his eye because that's that's
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: how they run.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Just to help you going forward, baklava is a nut
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: based dessert. Is the covering when you go to a
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: great restaurant, scholar would be delicious. Okay, back to the tattoos.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Do you believe that getting tattoos is addictive? And I've
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: got a reason for asking, because you're saying you think
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: this guy's heavily tatt I think it's addictive once you start, yeah,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: like it, and then you end up with your whole
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: body covered.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Well, there's there's a lot of different factors, and we
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: have our Bethany, you know, for our behavior analysts. But
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: I mean there is in doorphins, like any people who
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: get addictive to marathon races or or ultra marathon races
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: that the runners high. There is something called ink therapy
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: that people who come to us in the winter months
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: who are suffering from seasonal depression come in for ink therapy. Yeah,
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: people most likely get heavy work, but also gangs, cartels
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: get heavy work. The kind of people that would form
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: this kind of crime get heavy work.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned black and gray work that you've identified
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: in that sliver of tattoo that you believe that is
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: part of a particular region's choice. Of what region would
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: that be?
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: That would be the southwestern right states with California, you know,
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: the neighboring states Arizona, you know. And not to put
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: anything against the Mexican people, but it's a very high
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: population of Mexican immigrants and those of them who don't
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: get legal work, you know, go to crime and join gangs.
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: It's just a natural evolution.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Speaking of crime, I've been looking very carefully at the
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: tattoo Darren the dude, and I don't believe it's jail tat,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: but you have a different opinion. Explained, Well, you.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: Know, it doesn't look like super clean work. It looks
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: a little fuzzy. I know the whole image is fuzzy,
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: but I would say if it was performed in the penitentiary,
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: they might do makeshift tools. They're not going to use
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: high grade three sixteen Japanese steal for their needles, so
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: you're going to get some bleed throughs on the outlines.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: It's just how they do it.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Well, Darren, I disagree with you, of course, my law
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: degrees have not prepared me to argue with you sufficiently.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: But every jail tat I've ever seen was not that
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: delicate because they don't have the tools that you were
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: just mentioning. They find precision tattoo tools behind bars. You
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: mentioned penitentiary as opposed to jail. Do you find more
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: prison tasts in the pan versus the local jail because
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: Okay, right, penitentiary means they're going to be there for
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: a long time, correct. So these people, especially if we're
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: talking about cartels or gangs or whatnot, become very sophisticated
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: with their network of of of who assists them right
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: in their daily activities and their income. They're they're going
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: to be friendly with guards, staff, et cetera.
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: They're going to have stuff.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: Smuggled in or assisted in, and some of the work
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: has become a lot more. I've seen very sophisticated stuff
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: to rival legal tattoo shops. I've seen very sophisticated stuff
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: come out of penitentiary.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: During the reason I'm making these subtle but important distinct
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: between jail and pen is because if he's in the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: pen versus the jail, that gives me another clue as
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: to who he is. Jail jail, think of Andy of Mayberry,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: think of the Fulton County jail, think of the local jail.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: The time you spend in the local jail is less
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: than in the pen, the penitentiary, the CI Correctional Institute.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Why you were in the local jail. You were in
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: the local jail because you've got a misdemeanor and you're
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: doing twelve months or less, or you're waiting for your
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: trial or your court date. That's less time for you
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: to smuggle in tattoo artistry mechanisms or so. My point is,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: you got to be there for a while. To get
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: all that smuggled into you. So that tells me if
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: this is a jail tat, this guy has done hard
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: time in the pen and he's been convicted as opposed
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: to waiting at the Mayberry lockup with otis. See what
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I mean? If that's giving me a clue as to
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: who he is. Now you believe this could be a
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: prison tat. I do not, because it's too delicate. You
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: refer to a Japanese needle. What type of instrument would
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: be used to create a tattoo of this magnitude, a
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: full sleeve of that fine definition.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Well, these days the tattoo machine has evolved into kind
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: of a fat marker like pin and very sophisticated gradations
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: and needles. These new machines take what we call They
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: no longer take needle bars. They take cartridges, and some
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: of the better cartridges are using three sixteen. It's a
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: type of stainless steel Japanese metal for the needles. So
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: sophisticated tattoos can definitely be performed in the in the pen.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Absolutely so black and gray work from the south western
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: region of the country. The wrist tattoo indicates a full sleeve,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: a full sleeve airgo Therefore, as suggest a full body
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: tat you believe the gloves not only cover up fingerprints
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: but also an identifying tattoo. Yeah, would you have tattoos
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: on his hand? Would that be inked?
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: Absolutely? Absolutely, It's it's a continuation. I mean, he's got
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: a sleeve, he's got a hand tattoo, and what we're
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: seeing is just the in between.
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: This is the junction.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you the million dollar question, literally
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: the one point two plus million dollar question, because that
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: is the amount of the reward for information leading to
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie one point two plus million
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: dollars on the table. Darren, After looking at this, I
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: want you to think carefully before you answer. Could you identify,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: just make a stab at it your best estimate as
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: to what this sliver it's a small portion of a
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: larger tattoo, what is.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: It most likely?
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: You know, if we're going to go with the Chicano
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: gangs and stuff like that, it's going to be angels,
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: cloud work, family members.
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: It's going to be some kind of uh uh in memory,
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: some kind.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Of memorial to either a deceased relative or or or
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: a friend who died with them on the streets.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at it as you're speaking. You said, angels,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: cloud work, what's cloud work?
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: Clouds heaven? You know, like a memory of there it
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: would be.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: There would be words like uh to you know, to
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: my uncle love an angel, maybe some praying hands, all
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: these kind of like Christian symbolism.
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: That would be my.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Stat And also, Darren the Dude Rosa, you mentioned you
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: believe he's right hand dominant. Do people typically get their
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: dominant arm or hand tattooed or not?
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: No, Well, if we just go by the people coming
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: in my shop, for some reason, they want to get
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: their left arm done first. Not sure why. It might
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: be this psychological thing to get like the weak arm strengthened,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: because tattoos can be like a symbolism of strength or protection,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: and that might be why a lot of people tend
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: to get their left side first.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: If this is his right side and we know it's
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: a full sleeve, that means his left arm, which he
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: probably had tattoed first, is also a sleeve. So we
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: got got two sleeves and according to your reasoning, a
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: full body joining us. Darren the Dude Rosa renowned tattoo
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: artist in that circle at Rising Dragon Tattoos in New York,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: thirty plus years perfecting artistry in Japanese Fantasy, American traditional
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: and bull style tattooing any of the thoughts on the tattoo, Darren.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: I would say, like like to repeat, this is going
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: to be heavy work. He's covering up his hands and
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: his neck. I would say, all of that is, all
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: of that's tattooed, and he's most likely in a gang affiliation.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: He mostly Lee had some help, so I would say
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: his true is also heavily tattooed.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: And Darren, have you ever been approached by law enforcement
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: to identify a tattoo on a purp?
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: Yes?
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: I have funny you should ask that question. That's a
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: great question. Many years ago, I would say, about thirty
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: years ago, I had FBI approached me with photos of.
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: A Long Island per This particular serial killer was going after.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: Pay for sex women and they all had tattoos.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Factory crime stories with Nancy Gray, Darren, isn't it true
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: that tattoo artists like yourself have huge catalogs of tattoos
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: for people to pick from, And isn't it also true
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: that the tattoo artist that did this likely did all
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: of his tattoo work and would remember it if they
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: could be found.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. The catalog thing doesn't apply so much.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: I would think if he was in a pen and
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: he was getting, like I said, China tattoos, they were
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: probably you know, spontaneous put together with some of those
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Christian symbols and memorials I talked about. But absolutely most
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: likely the guy who tattooed him is also in a
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: penitentiary unless he's gotten out been released.
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: I wanted to come on, and it's been two weeks
• 22:03
  Speaker 6: since our mom was taken, and I just wanted to
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: come on and say that we still have hope and
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: we still believe.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: The Pema County Sheriff's Department has put up a link
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: begging for video. Let's see the link from Pema County
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department. It states that the department is urgently requesting
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: assistance in locating Nancy Guthrie. They describe her age last scene.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: If you have info, contact Pema County Sheriffs. They give
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: the number, and they actually give you a way to
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: submit video evidence. I can't stress how important this is.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Straight out to Dave Matt Crime Stories. Investigative reporter tell
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: me about the website set up by Pema County for
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: citizens to hand over surveillance video.
• 23:05
  Speaker 7: Nancy.
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: It's a very simple click to send website. There's a
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: link right there on the page so that people living
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: in the area or outside that have any kind of
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: video or pictures that are of interest that they can
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: submit it right there online. It's a very simple process.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: Very wise they did it.
• 23:23
  Speaker 7: I'm just surprised it took so long.
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: But Nancy, right now, law enforcement knows that this crime
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: can be solved, but it's probably caught on video, and
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: it's one of these videos that maybe they didn't think
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: about or somebody saw and didn't give any credence to
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: and now they're going, wait a minute, I need to
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: go back and look. That's what law enforcement has been
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: asking of neighbors of Nancy Guthrie. You know, please go
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: back and review your video footage now there.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: And they actually say urgent, urgent request. Guys, you can
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: find this online. This is from our friends at Fox News,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: and the reason we're showing it is because as a
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: neighbor submitted this video which behind the porch guy video
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: could be the single strongest evidence in this case. Trust me,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: this is being analyzed, blown up. I sewed the works
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: and it wouldn't be the first time a case was
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: cracked by car surveillance video. Do I have to say?
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Brian Coburger, Let's see that video. He went back to
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: the scene at least eleven times. But this is the
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: video that I find really interesting. There is video of
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: him cruising around the neighborhood. It's hard for us to
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: make out with a naked eye, but this was enhanced
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: and isolated to catch his white Elantra. Not only there,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: but a store clerk like a seven to eleven quick
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: trip type convenience store, took it upon herself to go
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: through hours and hours video and then call l E
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: law enforcement when she spots of white Elantra speeding. By
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: the morning of the murders around four a m. That
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: is where white Elantra first originated from her. Then white
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Elantra was sent to law enforcement all around the area,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: including Washington State University and Pullman. They plug in who's
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: registered here for a parking permit with a white Elantra.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: That's the first time the name Brian Coburger emerged. Let's
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: see then of course, there's the Caitlyn Armstrong case, the
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: so called glam yoga instructor. There she is circling, circling
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: multiple times. Once wasn't enough, chasing the home of her
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: love rival, a world champion, beautiful young dirt bike racer
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: in her early twenties. She murdered her. She murdered her
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: over a love triangle, or so she perceived, caught on
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: video that leads to the yoga instructor, the glam yoga instructor,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: as she is called, she looks like Satan to me.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Caitlin Armstrong was convicted of murder. And then, of course,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Molly Tibbets, the young co ed studying all day into
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the evening, decides to go for a run. She is
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: approached by this vehicle see following her as she's running.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: She finally threatens to call nine one one. At that
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: point the perp attacks her and murders her. Distinctive markings
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: on the side of his vehicle lead to the killer
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: and he is convicted. So in this case, to you,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Scott Iiker, an urgent plea to the public has now
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: been made. Submit your video. Can it work? It worked
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: in those cases.
• 27:05
  Speaker 8: It's a fantastic push again. I know they've said it
• 27:09
  Speaker 8: several times, but now they're giving them a quicker way
• 27:12
  Speaker 8: to submit that video. You got to remember it's probably
• 27:16
  Speaker 8: the older community doesn't know how to get the video
• 27:19
  Speaker 8: off their cameras or how to provide it, you know,
• 27:23
  Speaker 8: a simple way to get that information to the website.
• 27:27
  Speaker 8: Hopefully that helps, or at least have the FBI or
• 27:30
  Speaker 8: the Sheriff's office come over and download that stuff for them.
• 27:35
  Speaker 8: I think it's could be a very key aspect to
• 27:38
  Speaker 8: the case. We've seen this numerous times, and as this
• 27:42
  Speaker 8: investigation progresses from the frantic stage, Hey we've got a
• 27:47
  Speaker 8: missing person too, We've got you know what, now we
• 27:51
  Speaker 8: have a possible kidnapping. So now we're kind of getting into,
• 27:56
  Speaker 8: all right, the forming of a task force. When you
• 28:00
  Speaker 8: this task force, you're kind of going backwards a little
• 28:02
  Speaker 8: bit to say, all right, we need to regroup, we
• 28:05
  Speaker 8: need to re examine the data we have now, we
• 28:09
  Speaker 8: need a second set of eyes on it. We need
• 28:11
  Speaker 8: to retriage to all the forty thousand leads that came
• 28:15
  Speaker 8: in and see did we miss something the first time?
• 28:18
  Speaker 8: And they might start saying, okay, you know what we
• 28:21
  Speaker 8: were missing video from this area. Let's make another push
• 28:24
  Speaker 8: to get more video from that area.
• 28:26
  Speaker 9: In a case such as this, you're going to keep
• 28:29
  Speaker 9: that evidence until the case is completed. We never took
• 28:33
  Speaker 9: something and then fixed it and gave it back to
• 28:36
  Speaker 9: the people that we took it from.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: What were they looking for? Day thirty nine in the
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: search for Nancy Guthrie. Now the FBI using the behavioral
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: analysis team looking at everything, every identifiable thing, every mannerism
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: of the porch guy. Straight back out to Brian Fus
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Gibbons discuss it from Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security as
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: to why the ransom note hadn't been released. You say
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: you're not surprised. I am surprised because at this juncture,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: what is there to lose?
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, again, I don't believe the FBI will release something
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: if they believe they have something to gain from it,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: and I think in this case, you know, with these
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: short ransom letters, there's nothing for them to gain and
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: potentially things for them to lose about releasing information about
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: the crime scene that may have not been public yet.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Joining us renow It's psycho analyst out of the Beverly
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Hills Jurisdiction, Doctor Bethany Marshall. She's the author of deal Breaker.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: You can see her now on peacock and find her
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com doctor Bethany. While the FBI
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: is sifting through over forty thousand tips, they've got the
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: behavioral analysis team looking at his every move, his tattoo,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: the ransom notes, why not release them? And what if
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: anything have you gleaned? You know, Nancy?
• 30:04
  Speaker 10: Those ransom notes are so important because they tell us
• 30:08
  Speaker 10: something about intent. If it's a very short note that's
• 30:12
  Speaker 10: asking for financial remuneration or some kind of you know, money,
• 30:17
  Speaker 10: then that means the intent was just a kidnap for profit. However,
• 30:22
  Speaker 10: if there's some kind of ideology in there, some kind
• 30:25
  Speaker 10: of a missive or a manifesto, now the intent changes
• 30:29
  Speaker 10: to more of a stalking profile, because we know that
• 30:32
  Speaker 10: stalkers cannot help but write about the relationship with the
• 30:37
  Speaker 10: victim and the victim's families, and stalkers do pick up
• 30:41
  Speaker 10: a lot of clues about the victim's life. So the
• 30:44
  Speaker 10: fact that this person knew something inside of Nancy's house
• 30:49
  Speaker 10: it could tilt either way. Kidnap for profit, proving that
• 30:54
  Speaker 10: she's they were in there or kidnap as a part
• 30:59
  Speaker 10: of a stocking, meaning that this perpetrator had gleaned a
• 31:03
  Speaker 10: lot about Nancy Guthrie's life.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: What do you make of not releasing the ransom notes,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, because I feel, at this juncture, what is
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: there to lose?
• 31:13
  Speaker 10: I wish they would release the ransom notes. And I'll
• 31:17
  Speaker 10: tell you why. Most people have what I call affectations
• 31:22
  Speaker 10: in their speech. It's a word or a flourish that
• 31:27
  Speaker 10: they use to make what they're talking about seem more
• 31:31
  Speaker 10: important than it really is. And so I think people
• 31:35
  Speaker 10: who are criminal are rather empty people, grandiose people. They
• 31:40
  Speaker 10: have poor thought, you know, reasoning abilities. So I would
• 31:43
  Speaker 10: guess that there's going to be some kind of an
• 31:45
  Speaker 10: affectation in these notes that would be recognizable to a
• 31:49
  Speaker 10: family member or a friend of the perpetrator.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Do you agree or disagree, doctor Bethany, that the likely
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: has a criminal history?
• 31:59
  Speaker 10: You know what I do think the fact that they
• 32:02
  Speaker 10: couldn't find him in Codis tells me that he's he's
• 32:07
  Speaker 10: in a family, comes from a family who's rather unsophisticated.
• 32:11
  Speaker 10: In other words, they're not on twenty three and meters,
• 32:14
  Speaker 10: they're not doing genealogy research in their leisure time. That
• 32:18
  Speaker 10: it's a very hard working family whose time is tied
• 32:22
  Speaker 10: up making money. In terms of a criminal history, what
• 32:26
  Speaker 10: I really think, you know, Nancy, I want to talk
• 32:28
  Speaker 10: about the behavior and criminality. When I first saw porch guy,
• 32:31
  Speaker 10: I felt irritated, and I've examined what was my irritation about.
• 32:37
  Speaker 10: He saunters up to the house as if he owns
• 32:40
  Speaker 10: the place. There's a casual arrogance, which tells me that
• 32:44
  Speaker 10: he has done this before. Either he has a relationship
• 32:47
  Speaker 10: with Nancy and he feels like he has power over
• 32:50
  Speaker 10: her and that's the casual arrogance, or he has targeted
• 32:54
  Speaker 10: old ladies and he's broken into houses before, and that
• 32:58
  Speaker 10: that's where we see the familiarity. On the other hand,
• 33:02
  Speaker 10: he does not anticipate the ring camera, which tells me
• 33:05
  Speaker 10: that if his offending pattern is targeting elderly people who
• 33:09
  Speaker 10: can easily be subdued and he's not too concerned about,
• 33:13
  Speaker 10: you know, being caught, that he's really been targeting lower
• 33:18
  Speaker 10: income households which do not have ring cameras. So that
• 33:23
  Speaker 10: maybe this guy's offending pattern is that he's becoming emboldened
• 33:27
  Speaker 10: to go into wealthier and wealthier areas where he encounters
• 33:31
  Speaker 10: new scenarios that he had not anticipated.
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: To Whoever has her or knows where she is. But
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: it's never too late, and you're not lost or alone,
• 33:58
  Speaker 6: and it is never too late to do the right thing.
• 34:02
  Speaker 6: And we are here.
• 34:07
  Speaker 11: We believe, and we.
• 34:10
  Speaker 6: Believe in the essential goodness of every human being.
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: That stub too so.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Who would have seen Nancy? Likely a cohort, a compatriot
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: of the kidnapper.
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: Somebody crosses the border, they can take off in any
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: direction they want to go. This person claims that he
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: or she saw Nancy Guthrie in Mexico.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Where is Nancy Guthrie? Is she still alive? Is she
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: in somebody's basement or hidden away in an apartment? Is
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: she eating? Is she sleeping? Did they give her her meds?
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: This as we learned, civilians have been asked in Mexico
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: to search video. Will that be done in the Nancy
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Guthrie case? Joining me An All Star panels straight out
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave the.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: Latest, Nancy, you know you mentioned the search and we've
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: got the FBI asking for help from citizens. They're asking
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: for video, any video. They're really focused on this, trying
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: to locate anything that leads to Nancy Guthrie. We know
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: that at this point there has been little in terms
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: of information that has been let out by the local
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: sheriff of Nanos, the FBI being a little more open
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: about how they're searching for things.
• 35:41
  Speaker 7: As you see that video right there.
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: That video is probably the most important we've seen yet,
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: showing two and a half miles away a car going
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: back and forth away from Nancy's house. But Nancy the
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: FBI seeking help in Mexico is what we're hearing now
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: and asking for videos there. So this is an ongoing,
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: not cold at all kind of case, and it's just
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: at the point now where you're going, what could possibly
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: happen next?
• 36:09
  Speaker 7: Where do we go? Now we've got to get help
• 36:12
  Speaker 7: from the public.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Guys. You're seeing video that Nanos first said was unrelated,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: but that now is being analyzed over and over. Also,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: we understand that the FBI behavioral analysts are reviewing the
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: porch video to determine what they can learn this as
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: the ransom note is being searched studied to determine what,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: if any clue it can give straight out to Scott Iiker,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: former FBI with the Cellular Analysis Survey Team Homicide in Norfolk, Virginia,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: now with precision cellular Analysis. Scott, I'm very concerned about
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: why the ransom notes have not been released to the public.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: As Dave matt was describing so much evidence being kept
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: close to the vest. I'm sure you recall the case
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: of the unibomber, Tech Kazinski. He terrorized the country for
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: years with bombs, the unibomber, and it was only when
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: his manifesto was published in the New York Times did
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: someone his brother, identify his phraseology. He knew immediately that
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: was his brother. Why has the FBI kept this close
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: to the vest? I don't try to figure out what
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Nanos is thinking, But wouldn't it help if that was
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: released if in fact the ransom notes are legitimate.
• 37:46
  Speaker 8: That's the first question is are the ransom notes legitimate?
• 37:50
  Speaker 8: And we could obviously say those letters from the unibomber
• 37:55
  Speaker 8: his manifesto were related to him. There was enough in
• 37:58
  Speaker 8: the information there to say, yes, this is our bomber.
• 38:02
  Speaker 8: Now we can release it to try to identify our suspect,
• 38:06
  Speaker 8: and that worked out great. We had a family member say,
• 38:09
  Speaker 8: I recognize that that's my crazy brother. Okay, now looking
• 38:14
  Speaker 8: at the case here with Nancy Guthrie, do we actually
• 38:18
  Speaker 8: really have a ransom letter? Do we have a one
• 38:20
  Speaker 8: that's actually been a tied to the kidnapping, or do
• 38:24
  Speaker 8: we have a bunch of fake ransom letters people just
• 38:27
  Speaker 8: trying to get money. So the first thing is realizing
• 38:30
  Speaker 8: or being able to determine, yes, this is a real
• 38:34
  Speaker 8: ransom letter related to the case, and you can prove
• 38:36
  Speaker 8: that you would start working that hard first. When you
• 38:40
  Speaker 8: get to the end and you say I can't figure
• 38:42
  Speaker 8: out who this guy is based on the letter, then
• 38:45
  Speaker 8: you ask for the public's help.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: De Briyanhvus Gibbons joining US Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: leading a team of investigators around the world, including extractions
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: from Mexico looking for missing people for Iraqi war Vet.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering why they are not releasing the verbiage in
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: the ransom note. They don't know whether the ransom note
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: is connected or not. Have you considered the possibility, Brian,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: that at the beginning this was a ransom, a kidnapped
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: for ransom, but that at some juncture they could no
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: longer offer proof of life, so they offered details about
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie's room and the inside of her home, possibly
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: what she was wearing, because they could not send valid
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: ie video or photo proof of life any longer. Have
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: you considered that angle? And if so, wouldn't releasing the
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: ransom note be of great help? The way the manifesto
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: in Kazinski was a great help. I mean think, think
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: even in the Jombine Ramsey case, the vernacular, the word,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: the verted verbiage that was used, the word hints. How
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: many people do you know, except maybe me, occasionally use
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: the word hints heints. That is like waving a red
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: flag to a bull. Might as well take out an
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: ad on Third Avenue in downtown Manhattan who uses that?
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: So that is an example. Then another great example would
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: be BTK by Torture Kill, where he taunted, taunted police
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: and local media. His typed written letter of taunting was
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: traced back to its typewriter. And trust me, it's not
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: just the key, the key itself, even with the type
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: ball on a let's just say IBM selectra the ribbon
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: can give you the ransom note or the note sent.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: There are a million ways to track a ransom note.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: So help me. Brian has Gibbons. Why hasn't the FBI
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: released the ransom notes.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not surprised by this at all, Nancy. I don't
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: think that the FBI has anything to gain by releasing this,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: and I'll explain that for two reasons. One, compare it
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: to Ted Kaczynski's manifesto that was released in nineteen ninety
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: five that was thirty five thousand words.
• 41:33
  Speaker 5: Okay, so the.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Chance of somebody seeing an ideology connecting that back to
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: a person with thirty five thousand words is very probable.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: The John Benade Ramsey letter that was handwritten, right, there
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: might be somebody who recognizes the handwriting. In this case,
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: these were short missives sent digitally to TMZ. The FBI
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to cloud this copycats being created, or would that,
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: you know, as they verify this, they don't want that
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: those pieces of information that we're specifically in there being
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: released to the public.
• 42:11
  Speaker 11: We saw some things at the home that we're concerning
• 42:15
  Speaker 11: to us. We believe now after we processed that crime scene,
• 42:20
  Speaker 11: that we do in fact have a crime scene, that
• 42:22
  Speaker 11: we do in fact have a crime and we're asking
• 42:26
  Speaker 11: the community's help.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about Nancy
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Guthy's disappearance, please dial toll free eight hundred two two
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: five five three two four eight hundred two two five
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: five three two four, or if you wish to remain
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: anonymous five two zero eight eight two seven four sixty
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: three five two zero eight eight two seven four six three.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: There is a one point two plus million dollar reward
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: for information leading to the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie and arrest.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Much less a conviction is not really required for you
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: to get the reward. We remember American hero Captain Cody Cork,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: US Army Reserve Command, just thirty five killed in a
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: drone strike Kuwait. American hero Captain Cody Cork Nancy Gray
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: signing off goodbye, sir,