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Transcript

Night and the City · The Next Reel Film Podcast

• 0:02
  Pete Wright: I'm Pete Wright.
• 0:04
  Andy Nelson: And I'm Andy Nelson.
• 0:05
  Pete Wright: Welcome to the next reel. When the movie ends
• 0:08
  Andy Nelson: Our conversation begins.
• 0:10
  Pete Wright: Night and the city is over.
• 0:12
  Pete Wright: If you ain't got socks, you can't pull them up, can you?
• 0:21
  Pete Wright: Hi. How'd you do with Night and the City? Night and the City?
• 0:24
  Andy Nelson: Night in the City. We are we are back, to a one off entry into our film noir series, which we've done ages ago. And, plus we have a member bonus episode coming up that, will also be a holiday episode. I'm talking about repeat performance, which is also added to our film noir series. But, yeah, I love film noir.
• 0:45
  This is one I'd seen a number of times. Jewel Dassen, I think, a great director. And I'm excited to talk about it. But I'm curious for you because this is we're now gonna be spending a a bunch of time talking about your series since really the first half of our season was me and all of mine. Because it was it was time to 2025.
• 1:04
  So what can I do?
• 1:05
  Pete Wright: No judgment.
• 1:06
  Andy Nelson: I know. So now now we're jumping into a lot of your shows, and we're kicking off with this film noir that you had picked. And I'm curious, what was your draw to this as the noir of choice for this one off film noir entry? I don't know if
• 1:23
  Pete Wright: you know this, Andy, but it's now been a long time since we picked our series and watched through them, and it's a little bit fuzzy. I think part of the reason is that I like Jules Dasson, and I like Richard Woodmark a ton. And I thought the whole idea of this setting in and around wrestling promotion was really compelling. And I had not seen it, so I thought it would be a a fascinating addition. It wasn't a gamble.
• 1:50
  Like, this is a movie that is seen positively in in film in the eyes of film history. So it's not like I was really rolling the dice on this mysterious film noir. I just wanted to see it. Honestly, I just wanted to have it in the catalog because it looked like a compelling watch, and I it it met my needs for sure. I think this is a fantastic movie.
• 2:14
  I think the idea of having it set in London with this shady American club promoter is a is a really neat sort of set of conflict of cultural conflicts that makes for a really interesting film.
• 2:30
  Andy Nelson: There are reasons that we'll get to as to why this was in London. Yeah. But I think that it's an interesting world that yeah. Kind of this world of con men and and as he kind of shifts his focus and becomes kind of a wrestling promoter as a way to make a quick buck. Like, that's an interesting story for noir.
• 2:52
  And we certainly have a character in Harry Fabian who is very ambitious, very needy as far as, always broke and needs more money to put these deals together. Like, he's always got some scam in the works. And I love what, Mary says about him later. This is the I don't know. The girlfriend who's kind of a a rough relationship.
• 3:20
  It's not doesn't seem to be going very well, you know, because of him. But she says, like, you you have so many great ideas. It's just I wish that you would end up with some of the good ones. Like, all the ones that you end up running with are the are the bad ones. And that's kind of the problem with Harry is he just he is a very smart guy, but every idea that he has pushes him down a road of, more trouble, more crime, more problems running up against other people, and, lands him in this place where he just ends up causing problems with the wrong people and and, you know, ends very very noirishly with him, dead and tossed into the Thames.
• 4:05
  Right? I I think that that's such an interesting story. Plus, kind of have our, in the scope of noir, we kind of have our our femme fatale in Helen Nosaros. Right? Googie Withers character who is the one who gets him the initial money because she's also trying to get change her life, and she wants to get out of this crappy marriage that she has in this, this world of scams that she's in with her husband, Phil, who's a nightclub owner, but also hires Harry to scam people to get them to come to their club.
• 4:38
  And so it's kind of this whole thing. And and so we're getting a lot of interesting setup with some some interesting characters, and it all revolves around Harry Fabian and these dumb decisions that he kind of continues to make.
• 4:55
  Pete Wright: I agree with you. These are he makes these dumb decisions. But I think the ideology of the film sets up that he has no choice, that everybody in this thing plays a role as a piece in a machine that does not care about them at all. Even Philip. Right?
• 5:14
  That everyone in this thing is just playing their part to keep a machine moving. And Harry has gotten himself he's a very small cog in this machine, and no none of the larger cogs really care for him. They'll take him out. They'll replace him with new cogs. Nobody cares.
• 5:32
  The fact that we're centered on a very small cog and a very big machine is part of what makes this an interesting story. Right? There is no safe harbor for the small cog. There is no sense of anything other than exile for Harry. Right?
• 5:52
  There's no way this is going to move in any other direction than it does. There is a constant sense of impending doom. Even in the very beginning when you realize what his night job is, right, to get his tux on and and go to other places and just try to get people to come to his club, which is still a job right now. Right? I mean, this is the how you get people
• 6:17
  Andy Nelson: to go to your club,
• 6:18
  Pete Wright: is to be a club promoter. And
• 6:21
  Andy Nelson: It's just a sleazier version of a club promoter, though. It's sleazier version of
• 6:25
  Pete Wright: it. Right. Right. It's a a less authentic version of it. And, like, even there, you think, oh, maybe he's pretty good at this if he would just stick to it.
• 6:34
  You know? But he has aspirations to be a larger cog, and he cannot ever he will not the narrative will not allow him to get to the other side of his own aspirations. It's very depressing.
• 6:48
  Andy Nelson: Well, and and so many of the characters are not really sympathetic. Right? Like, we like Harry. I mean, I that's actually, I think, lot of Richard Woodmark. I think he's such a interesting actor because he's been such just malicious evil people in in films.
• 7:06
  But at the same time, there's something incredibly charismatic about the guy that I really enjoy. And I've just always enjoyed him. But I mean, yeah, going back to like kiss of death that he did a few years earlier was when he was Tommy Udo. That was like where he broke out and he's like, that's where he throws like somebody in a wheelchair down a flight of stairs. Like, he's an awful awful person.
• 7:31
  We're not that far from that by the time we get to to this film in his career. Now, it's the same year he has Panic in the Streets where he's in the military. So obvious or he's like military medic, I think. Anyway, so he's he's definitely not just playing a type, but I think he fits very well in the world of noir. And I what I love so much about Harry is he's he is so likable, but at the same time, we have such a hard time, like, with sympathy for him as likable as he is.
• 8:02
  Because he's charming and he he says sweet things and everything, but then at the same time, he's also like, you know, going through your pockets and and taking all your money. Like, that's that's the sort of guy he is. And between the the two Nosoroses, Phil and Helen, neither of them are really likable. Phil is kind of just he runs a sleazy nightclub where they teach the girls how to, you know, use their womanly charms to kind of, like, scam more money out of the customers. Like, that's the that's the business.
• 8:33
  And Helen is trying to get out from under Phil. She wants to go do her own have her own club, and so she's putting a scam on as well. And then you have Christo, Herbert Lom's character who runs this new boxing world, and it's all just like this modern version of wrestling that is much less authentic but more showy. And that's what pisses his dad, Gregorius the Great, off so much. And so you've got those people, and it sounds like Christo rules the wrestling world with kind of his own iron fist.
• 9:03
  And so you've got all these people and, like, the only one who might be the only couple, I think, who might actually be sympathetic in this pool of noirish dark characters are Mary, Gene Tierney's character, who who works at the club. Right? She's one of the people who goes around with her cigarette box and sells candy and sings songs and everything. And she's the one who's kind of with Harry. And then Hugh Marlowe.
• 9:29
  Adam. Yeah. Adam, who lives upstairs and who's, I I think, an architect and and is interested in Mary, but she is so stuck on Harry that it's like this broken relationship, and he's trying to figure out how he can get into it. And and so they're the only couple that really has that we can find much sympathy for.
• 9:49
  Pete Wright: Well, and the sympathy for for because we kinda want them to be together. Right? We know that we know that Harry is not good for Mary and that Mary should be with Adam, and and really, ultimately, Mary and Adam presumably end up together because Harry ends up in a very deep relationship with a river. Do you see what I did there? Deep Yeah.
• 10:08
  With the river. I just wanna make sure it didn't go Yeah. Okay. What do we know about the two versions of this movie? There's the British version apparently.
• 10:17
  What did you watch?
• 10:18
  Andy Nelson: I watched the American version. I didn't have time to put the British one on as well, though it is available. The, both of them were released on the the various discs and everything. The American version is what Jules Dassen prefers. It's shorter by five minutes.
• 10:36
  It has a different score. I think it's, Franz Waxman does the score here. And it has this darker ending where he gets killed. The British version has a new score by Benjamin Frankel, five minutes longer, and the ending is more positive.
• 10:56
  Pete Wright: He doesn't get thrown in the river?
• 10:58
  Andy Nelson: I don't know. I'm not sure. I'll do some real time research, but I'm not exactly sure how the British ends. Which one did
• 11:05
  Pete Wright: you watch? He gets thrown in the river.
• 11:07
  Andy Nelson: So you watched the American version.
• 11:08
  Pete Wright: But I didn't know that there were two versions when I turned this on. I just watched the one that was in front of me.
• 11:14
  Andy Nelson: I gotcha. Like a real dope. It looks like it ends on a more hopeful romantic note showing Harry, Fabian, and Mary walking away together arm in arm over the bridge as the final shot, suggesting a chance at redemption and love amidst the city's darkness instead of his death. So, yeah, I guess, you know, she saves him. I don't know if we're still seeing Christo and all of his men on the bridge as they walk off.
• 11:43
  But anyway, regardless, it's it's more of a long love conquers all version.
• 11:47
  Pete Wright: No. I don't care for that. Yeah. It actually surprises me that that isn't reversed. That it's not the the American version that is the love conquers all version of the Brits that are all like, everybody dies.
• 12:01
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. No. It's it's interesting. It does make me wanna watch it.
• 12:06
  I I hear that the music itself also changes the tone of the film kind of completely. And so, in fact, I again, I didn't have a chance to watch it, but on the on the disc, there is a feature about, like, twenty minutes about the music and the comparison and and what it actually does for the tone of the film. So and to try to check that out, I'm curious to see how it the how the feel is. Yeah.
• 12:32
  Pete Wright: Well, it is relentlessly cruel to our human characters. I and let's talk about London because this is, you know, this is a London that I honestly it it was set and filmed in London. It it could have been a studio. Right? It just it felt like they could have built what they did.
• 12:51
  I don't I feel like some of the the shots of the Thames, obviously beautiful, but most of it takes place in clubs and apartments.
• 13:00
  Andy Nelson: And streets. There's a lot of streets.
• 13:01
  Pete Wright: There's lot of running running. There's some runnings. Yep.
• 13:03
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. A lot of streets, construction sites. We get a wide variety of of locations throughout the film. It's actually pretty interesting, and it's it's other than there's some shots of him running where he's like cresting something, and you have kind of silhouettes of some downtown London buildings, I believe, behind him that kind of give you a sense of the place. But otherwise, it doesn't feel specifically London.
• 13:33
  It just feels like, you know, I guess what you're getting with seedier areas of of any place. Right? It just feels kind of seedy and run down most of where we are. Whether it's kind of the boxing rings or the clubs or the streets, it all is the the lesser cared for areas of the town.
• 13:53
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Yeah. Was it in London? What's going on with Jules at this time?
• 13:59
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Jules was, one of these people who was cited for communism and put on the Hollywood blacklist, and he is somebody who had moved back and forth to Europe anyway. And so when this whole thing with, the blacklist happened, he, moved off to London and ended up or in Europe, just kind of working over there instead of in The States. And so I wanna say, is it Thieves Highway, did he do Thieves Highway? It was right before this.
• 14:33
  And I think that he did that in The States, I believe. And then Daryl Zanek actually, like, pushed him to London. Said, get over there so you can make this film, this film that we just talked about or that we're talking about, Night in the City, so that you don't have to get interrupted during production by, the HUAC hearings. And so that's largely why he went over there. And so, you know, we were just talking about this complexity of the two versions as far as the British and the American version.
• 15:09
  He couldn't oversee the final film because he was stuck in Europe, and all of the stuff went over to The US, to the studio, for the editing and everything. So he didn't get to oversee it. That's why we ended up with these these alternate versions of the film. And so frustrating for him, but at the same time, at least he was able to make the movie.
• 15:29
  Pete Wright: Frustrated for him. Can you even imagine making a movie like that today? Can you imagine a project in which you were filming and had to just mail your stuff to across the planet and just wait and see what happens? I it would drive me crazy.
• 15:51
  Andy Nelson: Well, yeah. I mean, you know, the the comparison, I suppose, would be the Iranian filmmaker whose name is eluding me at the moment, but whose new film is out. And just that world of of trying to make these movies in a place where you're, you're having to, like, turn over things, or you have threat of imprisonment, or very frustrating. Jafar Panahi is what I'm thinking of. Yeah.
• 16:20
  So
• 16:21
  Pete Wright: We need to talk about Greco Roman wrestling just a little bit. Part of the premise of this movie and what Harry thinks is gonna get him out of the rat race, like get him out of being a small cog, is that he has come into a relationship with an aging wrestler, Greco Roman wrestler, who is the father of two other wrestlers. One is a a Greco Roman wrestler. The other is a is a wrestling promoter. But his the other son is promoting, I guess, more modern wrestling.
• 17:01
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I don't think I don't think that the guy with him is
• 17:04
  Pete Wright: a son. Nico? Nicholas? You don't think Nicholas is a son?
• 17:07
  Andy Nelson: I think he's just a wrestler that he's
• 17:09
  Pete Wright: A wrestler.
• 17:09
  Andy Nelson: Promoting. Okay. Yeah. Or working with who's training for Greco Roman wrestling. Yeah.
• 17:13
  Pete Wright: So the other wrestler, this is it I and I'm not a wrestling guy. So it surprised me that we were talking about the wrestling that would offend the classical Greco Roman wrestling father in this era. Because it feels like we're on the verge of the wrestling we have now, the more theatrical sort of wrestling. Do you have a a position on the wrestling in this movie? Did you did you find you were captivated by what they were trying to do?
• 17:46
  Andy Nelson: Well, I think it's an interesting story, and it talks about the old world and the new world, and I think that's an element. And interestingly, Greco Roman wrestling, I mean, has been around forever and is still around because that's specifically like the type of wrestling that they do in the Olympics. It's kind of that traditional wrestling. And I believe it's the same wrestling that high school students are doing. Right?
• 18:06
  Like that's that's that type of wrestling. Whereas this wrestling that Christo is promoting and organizing is like, it's starting to move toward the more sensational type of wrestling that would become like WWF and those sorts of things because that is, something that is more interesting for people to watch. There's, you know, the personalities and the fighting and the all sorts of nonsense. That's and he recognizes like things are shifting. The market is changing.
• 18:41
  That's what people wanna watch. And his dad doesn't agree, and they have the big fight at at Christo's match that he's promoting. And that becomes kind of this world. And so it's really a battle between the old world and the new as as far as like how things are shifting. And that's what I think is interesting is watching Harry Fabian, who is somebody who is such kind of like a con artist tapping into like, you'd think that he would easily fit into the world of the snazzier, the the more catchy type of of stuff.
• 19:16
  But he latches on to Gregorius, the great, and wants to now use that as a way to break into take down Christo's control of the wrestling world by having Christo's father on his side. And that's the whole thing. And I think it's an interesting angle. I I mean, I watched, like, WWF when I was a kid. I haven't followed it, you know, since middle school.
• 19:44
  There's there's an interest in it and how theatrical it can be. But, and I can I can understand, like Christo's position, wanting to make something? Like, that's like everything. Everything that we have is like, how can we make it more exciting for the audience? What can we do that would boost, you know, boost ratings?
• 20:02
  I mean, we sports are constantly changing and evolving for that very reason. And so, you know, so I get it. I just I I find it to be interesting that in some capacity, it's the old style that is what becomes Harry's supposed saving grace.
• 20:22
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I I think it's perfect. That's that's how it hits me is that Harry has made a series of bad bets. Right? And this, the thing he is most excited about in this movie, is ultimately a bad bet.
• 20:38
  Maybe through the eyes of history do we have this sort of cement itself. But the fact is the more promotable sport is the sport that Christos is supporting, is promoting. It's the new wrestling. And Harry is attaching himself to a boat anchor, to something that doesn't have commercial potential. And that is just the the last sort of data point in the fall of Harry.
• 21:11
  Right? He's made just bad decision after bad decision, and it's not getting better with this choice to of of what to promote. So it's like he has bad luck. He also has bad instincts. It's yet another unsafe harbor for him.
• 21:27
  He can't trust himself, and he doesn't know it.
• 21:30
  Andy Nelson: But here's what's so interesting about that is that he's he's so close. Like, he actually has a win in his hands. Right? Like, he he sets this whole thing up with Gregorius the Great and and Nicholas to kind of do this old style wrestling and ends up talking to the strangler. Right?
• 21:56
  His promoter, you know, because there's this whole battle. They like, they're always arguing the strangler and Gregorius. Like, there's this there's this tension. But he sets up this thing because he's kind of pushed into it. Like, all of this stuff is like, these machinations are going on behind him.
• 22:13
  Christo wants to bring him down and and has Harry give him funding to set a fight between the strangler and Gregorius because he thinks that his father will say no and that it will be an opportunity to or not with Gregorius, but with Nicholas. Because it will be an opportunity for for Gregorius to see the scheming that that Harry is doing. But it doesn't work out that way. Harry spins it so well that he convinces Gregorius and Nicholas that this is the best thing that we can do. You're going to fight the strangler, and you're gonna prove that your way is better.
• 22:57
  And that's like, that's what we're going to do. And Gregorius buys into it. Like, it's so fascinating. And if if everything had gone according to plan, and they could have gotten the strangler out of that office, out of the ring, where he was just sitting there taunting Gregorius and Nicholas. If none of that had happened and if they got out, they would have had a wrestling match and Harry would have been, you know, rich.
• 23:24
  He would have had all of that money. Now I would he have been able to continue? That's the question. But he still would have had that match that as the strangler's promoter says, like, this is gonna make us a ton of money. Everyone wants to see this fight, and it could have been big.
• 23:40
  But because they couldn't control the wrestlers who had their own agendas, it all ends right there when suddenly Gregorius and the strangler hop into the ring and fight each other.
• 23:51
  Pete Wright: I think I'm much less optimistic about the potential of this particular fight because we never get to see it. We never get to see, you know, who shows up. We never get to see who's excited about this kind of fight. Everything else that that we're seeing, the only public fight that we get to see that is well attended is the one that is, you know, the modern the the sort of neo wrestling, the the modern take on wrestling. And I I just my headcanon says Harry's luck is so bad that this fight would end up being lampooned.
• 24:28
  Even if they had one fight where people attended, it would have been lampooned as old versus new, and Harry would have been embarrassed again. Of course, I'm writing that in my head because this movie is pretty bleak, and that that's the easy the easy outcome for me. And I think I'm glad we don't get to see it because by the time Harry's dead and thrown in a river, I'm kind of exhausted by his lack of success. But I just doesn't feel like he would have he he would get that outcome.
• 24:58
  Andy Nelson: But you're forgetting about Rocky Balboa, Pete. Oh god. Seen We've
• 25:04
  Pete Wright: We've seen it. Works. He lost that first match.
• 25:10
  Pete Wright: Oh my god. Okay. You you win on the Rocky Val Boa point. You win. I'll give you that.
• 25:16
  Absolutely.
• 25:17
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I mean, I think it's really interesting. I do enjoy the story. And I, you know, honestly, I think bringing in these wrestlers, they have Status Loss Zabisco, who is a professional wrestler in real life playing Gregorius, and Mike Mazurky, who was also a professional wrestler before he became an actor. And he's somebody that we've seen in a lot of films, especially these kind of crime and noir films.
• 25:40
  He's always like a thug or something. And like they have a serious wrestling match at the two thirds mark of this film, where they really just kind of go at it. And it's a serious wrestling match. It's a long scene, and it it's interesting, and it plays well. And we're, like, rooting for Gregorius because we kind of wanna see him be able to prove that that he can do this.
• 26:04
  And and and he does. And I think that's what's great. And his son is there watching. Like, kind of becomes this moment to for Gregorius to prove that that his way is better. But of course But he lost to his death.
• 26:18
  Well, I know. But see, that's the thing.
• 26:19
  Pete Wright: He kills himself. There is no positive outcome for this. The old way literally dies in that ring.
• 26:27
  Pete Wright: He wins, but for nothing.
• 26:29
  Andy Nelson: Right. Right. But it's it's it was that proof. It was it was a very bleak way to prove that his way was better. And again, if they just had gotten the strangler out of there and saved this match for the ring with Nick Nicholas, Nico, we could have probably had a better moment.
• 26:48
  Would Nicholas have been able to beat the strangler actually in the ring? Who knows? But it still would have been seen by a lot of people. But, you know, egos and all of this, end up getting in the way, and we end up having a moment where nobody can stop these two. They're big wrestlers, and you just can't stop them.
• 27:05
  Everyone gets hurt. Nicholas tries to stop them and gets a broken wrist.
• 27:09
  Pete Wright: Gets a broken wrist. Yeah.
• 27:11
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Crazy. You know, if Fabian tries to stop and the other promoter tries to stop and, like, everybody just gets keep gets pummeled, and they just have
• 27:18
  Pete Wright: to sit and watch these two go at it. And it's it's tough. It's a it's a tough final moment for Gregorius. I think the pace of that fight dictates the promise of Nicholas in in the ring with the strangler. Gregorius it's not an easy fight for Gregorius.
• 27:35
  It's not just a a cakewalk for him. It's hard because the strangler is actually, you know, a physical specimen and very strong and very big. I don't know. It was hard for me to watch that fight with Gregorius, even with Gregorius winning, and think, man, Nicholas is lucky he broke his wrist and didn't have to actually get in the ring with this guy.
• 27:56
  Andy Nelson: Well, I mean, he's, also much older than him too. Right? Yeah. He's like, you know, 27 older in real
• 28:03
  Pete Wright: life In real life.
• 28:04
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Than Mike Mazurky. And so, yeah, and so I I think that's also part of it. Like, it's it's, you know, getting an older person into the ring to do something like this. When Nicholas, you know, maybe who knows if he would have been able to beat the strangler, but he wouldn't have died.
• 28:22
  Pete Wright: He was tiny. He would have he
• 28:23
  Pete Wright: was a twig compared to both of those guys, Nicholas. He was a little a little scrawny scrawny twig. He was a reed in the wind. He would have been broken
• 28:33
  Andy Nelson: in seventeen places. He's he's a heavyweight wrestler. So I think
• 28:37
  Pete Wright: he would have wrist just getting tossed from the ring. Yeah. Well, yeah. There is that. There is that.
• 28:44
  Alright.
• 28:45
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Let's talk about the women in the story. We've already talked about them a little bit, but I just wanna get a sense of kind of the yin yang balance that we have between Mary and Helen who work together at the club. They both have relationships with Harry, but in different ways. And I think it's interesting, especially because there is a sense that the story paints in in kind of backstory conversations that at one point, Helen and Harry had been an item, and Helen chose Phil because Phil is the one with the money.
• 29:17
  And so he ended up with Mary.
• 29:19
  Pete Wright: And Mary ended up with aspirations beyond her remit in this time and place. And she had aligned herself herself enough with the wrong people that she had the same general trajectory as Harry. She doesn't end up dead, but she ends up having made wrong decision after wrong decision. Right? First, hooking up with Philip in the first place, but hooking up with Harry turns out was a really tough decision.
• 29:53
  Right? That he was the one who secured a fake license for her to sell liquor, which was revealed by a cup ring stain from a from a glass of water. Like, it it's crazy how this house of cards that Harry's built ends up falling in a way that impacts everybody around him. And she was a victim of that, Mary.
• 30:18
  Andy Nelson: No. That's Helen.
• 30:20
  Pete Wright: That's Helen. Mean, Helen. Yeah. The one who's interesting is is Mary, who is the the sort of test of purity of the film. Right?
• 30:28
  She's the one who has is fighting her urge to continue to support Harry in spite of the horrible things Harry does. To the point where Harry's just stealing from her and getting physical with her, where she clearly has lost her, you know, is fighting losing her complete faith in Harry and and her love for him.
• 30:52
  Andy Nelson: I agree. Mary is very interesting, but I I don't think I would say that Helen is uninteresting in the way that she's crafted. I think that she's incredibly interesting and there's a there's a need and a kind of a darkness that we have with her particular character that I find absolutely fascinating that she married Phil, yet is so disgusted by him. He I mean, he's kind of rough in his physical way in how he comes on to her and and kisses her and and, you know, the the earlier moment when he he grabs her and kisses her. It's it's very forceful and and frightening in a in a relationship.
• 31:34
  And then to have her go through this whole plan to steal or to sell off the fur that he gave her, and to, give the money to Harry so that he can get more money, and then use that, you know, to get her license. She tells Phil off. Like, it's one of my favorite sequences in the film is when she tells Phil off, like, I'm leaving. I'm never coming back. And like, even if everything falls apart, I will never come back to you.
• 32:06
  I want nothing to do with you anymore. You disgust me. I hate you. She starts her own club. Everything falls apart because the the fake license is revealed, and then she does come crawling back.
• 32:17
  And I thought that said so much about this character that she doesn't know what else to do. And so she, you know, comes crawling back to try making amends with him. Yet she doesn't realize, and it's so it's crafted so well that Phil has killed himself. Like, the way that he's sitting there, we don't see that. She's just talking to him.
• 32:39
  And then finally, we're it's revealed that he's holding a gun in his hand and had left everything to Molly, this woman who kind of pedals flowers out in front of the place. And Molly is just sitting there laughing at her. And it's just like, it's the destruction of Helen. And I think it's a fascinating way to kind of portray the femme fatale character that we have in this film, is this woman who who is greedy and pushes for more and gets it almost only to have everything come completely falling apart. And I just thought her story is just fascinating.
• 33:16
  Those final moments was just so dark and twisted.
• 33:19
  Pete Wright: Well, it's an interestingly sort of classic scene where she is is confessing to dead Phil. Right? Before she knows he's dead, she's she's like spilling her heart, which we have no reason to believe is authentic in any way, shape, or form because she is unreliable. But then to find him dead is is sort of the it it's a twist for us for Phil's character too. Right?
• 33:47
  That that the one thing that he felt authentic about was his relationship with her, and that was enough to cause him to take his own life.
• 33:58
  Andy Nelson: Well, what was interesting about that is because he says when she leaves, he's he's like, oh, you'll come back. And then she's out the door, he's like, and I'll take you back. Like, acknowledges, like, he's also weak. Like, he as much as he knows that she hates him, he still needs her in his life because he doesn't have anyone else. And I think that was such a a fascinating psychology that we are are introduced to.
• 34:27
  And it almost makes him killing himself slightly less believable because I would think that if that was what he was thinking, would he have waited more than a couple hours? I mean, it's it's I don't know. It seems like it's the same day that all of this happens. I don't know how she got Oh, it's a whole club up and running, but somehow Yeah. All within the same day she has.
• 34:50
  Pete Wright: Yeah. It's like a few hours later, it feels like. Like she leaves, she comes right back. She hasn't changed clothes.
• 34:55
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. And and yet he's killed himself in that window. Yeah. So it's very dark.
• 34:59
  Pete Wright: But that's
• 34:59
  Pete Wright: the interesting thing about his character. It's like he he says, and I'll take you back, and then clearly realizes, oh, no. I'm this isn't this isn't who I am. I can't I can't live like this. Yeah.
• 35:11
  Right. Who knows what what he's actually believing, but he's he's dead. And and that sends a stronger message maybe than either of what Helen or Harry go through that that Phil is is really struggling in a way that as an ancillary thug character, we don't see very often.
• 35:31
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I really enjoy that interesting psychology that we have here. And I think that's something that we just with film noir characters often, there it's just such an interesting world that we have of these sorts of things that I really enjoy. I wanna ask you about Hugh Marlowe's character. You know?
• 35:49
  I mean, it's it's an interesting small role for him. I mean, it's same year. He's in All About Eve, which is, you know, gonna be winning best picture. And here he is playing this relatively small part of this guy who lives upstairs, is interested in Mary. He's in a couple scenes, and it feels very bit part.
• 36:13
  How did Adam play for you in the film?
• 36:17
  Pete Wright: You know, in some respects,
• 36:19
  Andy Nelson: the
• 36:19
  Pete Wright: entire Adam, Mary relationship is like an appendix to the movie. Right? It's it's sort of interesting, but not necessarily required for all of the other big story that's going on. I do like him because he's just exudes charisma on screen, and I absolutely believe that there is a relationship that has formed between Mary and Adam. They are the the white dove of this movie.
• 36:51
  Right? They're the only thing of light that is going to survive in this darkness. And yet I still find, do did I need did I need it? Did I need him as a part
• 37:03
  Pete Wright: of this? I don't know.
• 37:06
  Pete Wright: I I come away thinking this could have been the same movie without him. What do you think?
• 37:11
  Pete Wright: You
• 37:12
  Andy Nelson: know, I I guess I don't mind the part. I think it's I think it works for the context of the story to have somebody else there for Mary who she can bounce off of. I think in my head, a lot of it comes down to the fact that it's Hugh Marlowe, And it makes me wonder how many Americans are all, like, living here in this particular area. Like, why what's the reason that we have such a pool of of Americans, expats who are are all over here at this particular point in time? I was like, would I have less issues if it wasn't Hugh Marlowe, if it was a British actor, even of the higher caliber who was in this bit part, but just somebody that was British?
• 37:54
  Because I I think with Richard Woodmark, with Gene Tierney, Hugh Marlowe, but at least those three. It just it just seemed like maybe one American too many. You know? Like, for mean, kids Man, it's
• 38:09
  Pete Wright: all over the world are saying that right now. Right now. Just about everything.
• 38:15
  Andy Nelson: I think it's more than one American. But Believe me.
• 38:17
  Pete Wright: We we get it.
• 38:18
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Too many.
• 38:20
  Andy Nelson: Too many. So, yeah, I just I think that's the issue largely for me is, like, I could have just had a British actor in that role, and it would have made a little more sense to me.
• 38:31
  Pete Wright: I that's a really interesting observation, and I hadn't thought of it this way. But when we were in Korea, it was easier for me to imagine as we were living there that the Americans and Canadians would find each other because of the language, because none of us were were proficient with with Korean. So it was easy to imagine that we would sort of find one another in coffee shops. We stood out. Right?
• 38:54
  This you we don't have that situation here. I I don't understand how the Americans find each other because they don't stand out in coffee shops. Like, you have to actually do some work to to find them.
• 39:07
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Right. And, you know, I mean, okay. So Mary came over, ended up working at a nightclub. Harry came over.
• 39:15
  He also ended up at the same nightclub. I can see that kind of connection. And but then Adam, I guess it's just an upstairs neighbor. Neighbor? Is this the American building where all the Americans live?
• 39:25
  I don't know.
• 39:25
  Pete Wright: It is. It's the expat building. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.
• 39:28
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I don't know. I I did think just as a another note, I love how the film starts where and again, I I I made a note of this that we start with a a voice over describing kind of setting up the world for us. And the very first thing they say is the title of the film. We're like, oh, check that off for Pete.
• 39:45
  One thing to be heard too about. And a voice over. He's like, oh, come on.
• 39:50
  Pete Wright: Well, and then I hear that the British version has no voice over.
• 39:53
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Because I don't know if he needed it really. But it sets up the story. But what I love so much about the start is you get Harry running, and it's this fantastic wide shot. It's kind of establishing shot of this area where he comes running across this little figure, and somebody's chasing him.
• 40:09
  And that's the setup of our story. Somebody chases him until he pops into Mary's flat and hides out there. And they kind of give up chase when they see him go into this building, which I I was I don't know. I scratched my head about it. I wondered why they and they're just waiting outside for him to come back out.
• 40:24
  But it's an interesting setup where Harry's always running. I love this. He's always in some issue where he's gonna be getting chased for something. I thought that was a great way to kind of establish our character.
• 40:35
  Pete Wright: Andy, do you did you think at all about the amount of sweat that he would have been having to deal with running in a suit? All these guys run so hard in suits. I struggled with that. That was the era. I could not I didn't care for it.
• 40:48
  It made me think about all the suit running movies we've seen, North by Northwest. It's just a I'm lot to
• 40:53
  Andy Nelson: start just jogging in a suit, put a suit on, and just
• 40:55
  Pete Wright: Just that's not a bad that's not a bad idea. Who was it who started jogging in a in a plastic jogger to start losing weight and nearly died? That's rough. That's awful. Night and the city.
• 41:10
  The night is tonight. Tomorrow night, or any night, the city is London. Not only does it start with the title of the movie, but that entire line is cockamamie confusing to read. I kinda get it in the terms of the voice over, but I didn't care for it. It the movie started in in in a deficit for me, for sure.
• 41:37
  It reclaimed its its itself, but I didn't need the voice over. I was upset with that.
• 41:43
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. It's I mean, it's it's fine. It definitely felt of its era, I guess. Definitely not needed. But, you know and because it's it's not a returning voice over.
• 41:53
  It's just a setup voice over. Something that is here to set the story up.
• 41:57
  Pete Wright: Harry, Harry, you could have been anything. Anything. You had brains, ambition. You worked harder than any 10 men. But at the wrong things, always the wrong things, Mary knew all along.
• 42:10
  Yeah. Mary was the smartest. Is smart.
• 42:13
  Andy Nelson: Yep. Another element that I really love about this movie is when we have Harry going around trying to get money, and we get to meet all of the different con artists and scammers in town. Like, we get the guy who has all of his beggars with all of their, like, fake missing legs and It's beautiful. Like that whole world, which reminded me of of that that version of that world in the John Wick movies. Like, makes you wonder, like, if these people should have been invited to jump into the wrestling match.
• 42:43
  We've got the the woman down in the docks at the fish market who's, like, transporting stolen goods across the river.
• 42:50
  Pete Wright: Like, all these different The sign maker, the passport maker, the guy who made the fake license.
• 42:55
  Andy Nelson: Right. Like, we're meeting all of these people. And I just love that we're just dipping our toes into this. I love that sense of world building that we have where
• 43:02
  Pete Wright: it
• 43:02
  Andy Nelson: feels like there's a lot of shady stuff going on around here.
• 43:06
  Pete Wright: A lot of shady stuff. And even though they're all in the same business, they are all like, they they don't really look out for one another. Right? The the woman
• 43:15
  Andy Nelson: It's all about money. That's that's all about money.
• 43:17
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Community is money.
• 43:19
  Andy Nelson: I mean, as the beggar, the guy, he he brings Harry into his place, and as it turns out, it's only because he wants the thousand pounds Yeah.
• 43:27
  Pete Wright: The reward. So
• 43:29
  Andy Nelson: it's all about
• 43:29
  Pete Wright: the money. The level of his generosity ends with, I could give you a, you know, an amputated leg prosthetic, if that would help. Right. But that's about the end of it. That is.
• 43:40
  You know? It's bleak, man. It is a bleak film.
• 43:44
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I mean, it fits very well into this series. I'm definitely glad that you picked this. Any last any last thoughts?
• 43:51
  Pete Wright: I I don't think so. I think the the the message of the movie is that Harry's ambition is, sadly terminal, and he doesn't make it.
• 44:00
  Andy Nelson: Ambition is a terminal disease. His type of ambition. As Mary said, he puts it all on the wrong things. All of it. Yeah.
• 44:09
  Yeah. Yeah. Great movie. Alright. Well, we will be right back, but first, our credits.
• 44:26
  Pete Wright: The next reel is a production of True Story FM, engineering by Andy Nelson, music by Vacheslav Dragunov, Ziv Greenberg, and Yuval Shapiro, bunker buster, oriel novella, and Eli Katelyn. Andy usually finds all the stats for the awards and numbers at d-numbers.com, boxofficemojo.com, indv.com, and wik ipedia.org. Find the show at truestory.fm, and if your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show.
• 45:08
  Andy Nelson: Hey there, pal. I've got a little something special for you today. A real opportunity if you catch my drift. They call it Letterboxd, and it's the hottest ticket in town for anyone who knows their way around a good flick. Letterboxd is the kind of place where all the movie mad big shots and starlets gather to swap stories about their favorite pictures.
• 45:28
  You can keep tabs on every thriller, romance, and adventure you've ever laid eyes on, uncover new gems that'll knock your socks off, and rub shoulders with a bunch of other film crazy folks. And here's the real cherry on top. If you mosey on over to the nextreal.com/letterboxed or sign up directly on letterbox and use the code next real, you'll get a nice little 20% off your membership. That's right. 20% off, whether you're a wide eyed newcomer or a seasoned vet of the silver screen.
• 45:54
  With the letterbox pro or patron membership, you'll have all sorts of nifty features at your fingertips. Ad free browsing, personalized stats, streaming service notifications. It's like having your own personal secretary, always ready with the latest scoop on where to find the best flicks. But listen, Letterbox isn't just about the bells and whistles. It's about the people.
• 46:12
  It's all about connecting with other movie buffs, swapping hot takes and theories, and maybe even uncovering a few juicy tidbits along the way. It's a regular cocktail party of film fanatics, and you've got a VIP invite. So what's the word, friend? You ready to dive into a world of cinematic thrills and chills? Ready to mix it up with the biggest movie nuts in town?
• 46:32
  Then sign up for Letterboxd and use that code, next real. Trust me. It's the smartest play you'll make in this wild, unpredictable world, moving pictures. See you on the inside, champ.
• 46:44
  Pete Wright: Sequels and remakes, Andy. Have I seen this movie again?
• 46:49
  Andy Nelson: You tell me, Pete. This was remade in 1992. It's called Night in the City, surprisingly. What? Zork.
• 46:59
  Erwin Winkler directed this remake. It was actually a passion project for Robert De Niro, who stars in it with Jessica Lange. He had been wanting to do this story for a while, and I believe well and I should say, we didn't talk about this, but it's based on both versions are based on the novel Night in the City by Gerald Kirsch, which is funny because Jules Dassen says he actually never read it. Anyway, Robert De Niro really wanted to retell this particular story, and word is, he was pushing to work on it with Martin Scorsese. Was kind of the plan, but things kind of fell through.
• 47:36
  And Erwin Winkler, who's produced a number of things with Scorsese and who's, you know, directed stuff himself as well, ended up taking it on to direct. Nineteen ninety two, it wasn't received overly well, but I don't know. I I've heard mixed things. I actually it's tricky to find. I actually found it on, online, a a crappy, very low res version.
• 48:01
  I was gonna try giving it a watch to see see what I think. So if I get a chance, I'll let you know.
• 48:06
  Pete Wright: Yeah. How about the numbers?
• 48:17
  Andy Nelson: Well, Pete
• 48:18
  Pete Wright: It doesn't it doesn't start well. We're
• 48:20
  Andy Nelson: not kicking off things for you well on your half of the year. For somebody who made so much fun of me for all of my picks, I'd just like
• 48:28
  Pete Wright: to It's say gonna be slow start, Andy, but just you wait. We shall see.
• 48:33
  Andy Nelson: We shall see. For Dassin's film, this is what I have. The movie opened in The UK in April 1950, then premiered in The US on 06/09/1950. And apparently, it had a rerelease in Greece in 2008. I'm assuming it's the the gregarious the great Greco Roman wrestling slant that, they wanted it to rerelease.
• 48:52
  Anyway, that brought about 43,000 on that rerelease. But that's it. There is no budget information, no grosses. It is a big financial mystery. Yep.
• 49:03
  Pete Wright: Oh, I'm not crazy about that report. Yes. But I'm optimistic. Just give me a couple more weeks. Alright.
• 49:12
  Couple more weeks.
• 49:13
  Andy Nelson: We'll see
• 49:13
  Pete Wright: how things go. Alright.
• 49:15
  Andy Nelson: Well, I'm glad that you picked this one. I really enjoy it. Criterion released this and Night in the City as kind of a matching set of DVDs back in the day. I have the DVDs of both. They've since, I think, re released Night in the City on Blu ray.
• 49:29
  I don't think that they upgraded Thieves Highway, but they're both great films. Definitely worth checking out. I'm glad that you picked this one and put it on the list. It's a lot of fun and definitely worth talking about.
• 49:39
  Pete Wright: Me too. It's a it's a winner, Harry. It's a winner. Alright.
• 49:44
  Andy Nelson: That is it for today's conversation. Next week, we are going musical. That's right. We're kicking off our John Carney's Streetwise musical series with his 2007 film, Once. I thought it was interesting that you picked three.
• 50:00
  Wasn't there a fourth film that he made recently? Yeah. Like, The Mom and Her Son or something?
• 50:06
  Pete Wright: I can't remember. It was an Apple TV plus thing over the pandemic. And I forgot
• 50:12
  Andy Nelson: that it existed. Something like that.
• 50:14
  Pete Wright: Flora and Son. That's right. I was like, Fiona and Son. Yeah. I haven't seen it.
• 50:18
  Andy Nelson: Oh, okay.
• 50:19
  Pete Wright: Maybe that maybe we can throw that in as a bonus sometime, extra.
• 50:24
  Andy Nelson: Maybe down the road. Yeah.
• 50:26
  Pete Wright: Honestly, I read Steve's review of it, and I don't think he liked it. So I didn't I didn't prioritize it.
• 50:34
  Andy Nelson: I see. I see. Well, I'm excited to talk about these ones. I love ones. So
• 50:39
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I love them all. What are you talking about?
• 50:42
  Pete Wright: Why are you talking about us? I
• 50:45
  Andy Nelson: I because that's the one
• 50:46
  Pete Wright: we're talking
• 50:46
  Pete Wright: about. More and they're really good. I know. What are you doing can't to speak to them right now. So You better speak oh.
• 50:53
  Oh, you better get ready to speak to them. I will. Wait in a few weeks. Alright. Alright.
• 50:59
  Andy Nelson: Alright. We'll be right back for our ratings.
• 51:15
  Pete Wright: Look, I know how this sounds, but I've just come from the ring. No. No. Not the ring. The rink.
• 51:23
  Concrete floors, folding chairs, a thermos situation, and what I saw there is gonna change everything. Now don't laugh. That's what they said too. They always laugh first. But this, this is chess on ice.
• 51:38
  It's strategy with brooms. It's two people yelling very calmly while trying to make a rock behave. There are no knockouts, no trash talk. Applause feels sort of optional, and that's the genius of it. It's called curling.
• 51:52
  The thing doesn't have promoters, and that's the problem. It wants silence and respect and probably a cardigan. But here I am anyway, telling you this is the next big thing. And that's basically the Next Real Family Podcast membership. The Next Real Family Podcast membership is curling for movies, Same energy, wrong messenger.
• 52:16
  It's not louder. It's longer. Members get extra reels. They get the conversations that slide a little farther. The context that never makes the highlight reels.
• 52:26
  The films that don't care if you're impressed as long as you're paying attention. No hype videos, no whistles, just people who like movies enough to argue about them when no one's watching. You don't join to cheer, you join to lean in, to squint and say, wait, did you see that? The doors are open. The ice is cold.
• 52:48
  Visit truestory.fm/join today and get on the ice. And, you know, bring a broom if you want. Or don't. You'll still feel it when the stone stops.
• 53:04
  Pete Wright: Letterbox, Andrew. Letterbox.com/thenextreel. That's where you can find all the reviews and ratings for this show. As you know, the rules are very simple. If you're going to apply a star or a heart to a movie, you have to take it away from another movie.
• 53:17
  These rules are never followed by anyone. Andy, what are you gonna do to this film?
• 53:21
  Andy Nelson: I'm gonna, as usual, ignore Pete's silly rules that he tries
• 53:25
  Pete Wright: to impose on the world.
• 53:28
  Andy Nelson: I although I will say, I am gonna go full stars as you always do. I'm gonna do four stars and a heart with this one. Four stars and a heart because I really enjoy this one. This is one I I'm happy to revisit.
• 53:44
  Pete Wright: I think it's a a great great horror film. And where does the star fall? It's just it does.
• 53:55
  Pete Wright: Okay.
• 53:56
  Pete Wright: Okay. You heard it here. It's very esoteric fall, Pete. Well, I asked because I am also four stars in a heart. And I think that it's because I have this overwhelming feeling of bleakness.
• 54:10
  It's an exceptional movie that just doesn't feel great to watch, and I feel that about a number of noir films that are extraordinary movies that leave me feeling a little a little more empty than I was when I started.
• 54:24
  Andy Nelson: But don't you give Requiem for a
• 54:26
  Pete Wright: Dream five stars? Not anymore. Not in You're you're
• 54:29
  Andy Nelson: you're if you're grading down for three stars. Did I give did I give Reckley 35
• 54:34
  Pete Wright: stars? What the hell?
• 54:36
  Pete Wright: What am I thinking?
• 54:39
  Pete Wright: Alright. You win this round. Still, four stars in a heart. Yeah.
• 54:42
  Andy Nelson: Alright. Well, that averages out to four stars, which you can find on our account at Letterboxd at the next reel. You can find me there at sota creek film, and you can find Pete there at pete wright. So what did you think about Night in the City? We would love to hear your thoughts.
• 54:56
  Hop into the Show Talk channel over in our Discord community, where we will be talking about the movie this week.
• 55:01
  Pete Wright: When the movie ends,
• 55:03
  Andy Nelson: our conversation begins. Letterbox giveth, Andrew. As letterboxed always doeth.
• 55:24
  Pete Wright: I think you should start.
• 55:26
  Andy Nelson: I went low. I went with a one star by Walter, who has this to say. I liked this one as a kid, but frankly, it's just one big unpleasant commie bear hug. Okay. And I wanted to pick this one because specifically, like, we talked about Jules Dassin, leaving the country because of of Hughack and his communist leanings and everything, we didn't bring up the fact that there is this element of of our American actor.
• 55:59
  Like, it's it's specifically an American over here in London who, for whatever reason, has fled The US. And I I think that's an interesting element that we're kind of looking at that element of of witch hunts in in the scope of this story. So
• 56:14
  Pete Wright: That's really interesting. What would happen? Who else would be chasing poor Harry if he went home?
• 56:19
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Not even just that, but just like he's he's always be getting chased anyway. Like like that whole thing. It was like he's he's he is the witch.
• 56:27
  Pete Wright: Yeah. We're we pick up when he's in London, but but he he was probably chased over here. He's just a I guess he's a terrible yeah. Terrible mess.
• 56:36
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. And apparently, Mary was too. And so is Adam. They're all commie bastards.
• 56:40
  Pete Wright: All commie bastards. Okay. Well, I guess I have one. Three and a half stars from Jay Schmoney, who says, I'm assuming Vince McMahon watched this as a kid and said, this scumbag Harry Fabian guy, he's exactly who I wanna be. My main complaint with the film is two sweaty half naked men holding each other gets more screen time than second billed Gene Tierney.
• 57:05
  Alright. I like the Vince McMahon bit.
• 57:08
  Andy Nelson: I like the Vince McMahon bit. You know, somebody needs to get over themselves when it comes to wrestling. But yeah, Gene Tierney, I mean, she she's wonderful. I always love seeing her in the film. This is just a side note with her, but apparently, Dassin was pushed to cast her by Xanax because he was concerned that she was suicidal and was hoping that some work would would help her state of mind.
• 57:32
  So I was like, wow, that's interesting. Yeah.
• 57:35
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Goodness. Thanks. Letterboxd. Learn something new every week.