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Choosing a Mission Over a Basketball Scholarship: Spencer Kimball on Building Unshakable Faith · ToddTalks--Spirit By Design: Your Weekly Survival Guide

• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Recording.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Todd Talk, Spirit by Design, where I help you design your spirit life in order to prepare you to be ready for the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And today I have a treat for you.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm talking with Spencer Kimball, who is a good friend of mine.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: My wife and I have known him forever.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: My wife's known him a lot longer than I have, but we've known him forever.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: He's a state president, which is a uh, if you're not a member of the church, he's over multiple congregations down in Destin, Florida, uh, well over a thousand members of the church.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he has some spiritual insights.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're going to talk about um faith and building your faith, even when the way ahead looks a little murky, a little dark.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because uh I know he's had some experiences with some stress, and and he's worked with a lot of people that have gone through that, and I know that you are probably going through that.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, welcome, Spencer.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the program.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's an honor to be here.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm I'm glad, and I appreciate your willingness to uh take time out of your busy schedule to uh to do this.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, in order to start out and get this going, I'd like to just ask a couple of questions.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And first, first and foremost would be how did you develop your faith?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have uh any specific uh experiences that let you know, yes, I have a testimony of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and of the church?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was raised in a home where it was just common knowledge, it was just there, and so I think I always had a sense of the spirit because I was raised around it.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was raised in a family that prayed.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have the greatest parents that ever walked the earth, and my dad is a deeply spiritual man, and he's he's my hero and my mentor.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so as I was growing up, anytime we would have a challenge or an issue, he taught me the muscle memory was to get on my knees and pray.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And my dad would always he would lead that when I was young, and he'd say, Okay, let's go ask the Lord what we need to do here.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then as soon as the prayer ended, he would stop, and I can hear it like he's saying it right now.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: What does the Lord want us to do?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So from a young age, I just learned to listen and and to try to be led by what I felt after I prayed.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think my faith actually develops later on when I was out of the house and it got tested, and I didn't have mom and dad to go to to walk me through everything.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that always when uh when we truly develop it?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's when we we have to be tested and be out on our own and actually learn through the trial of our own faith.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's when you get it confirmed that that it's there and that he's there.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I I've never really doubted that there is a God, that I have a father in heaven, because I've I've felt him, felt that love throughout my life.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: So as far as deepening that relationship and getting to a point where I know I can trust in what he's going to lead me and guide me to, that came through going through some storms.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: So ain't that the truth?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I you and I seem to have a similar background in that regard.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I grew up in the church, I knew all the time I you know lived off my parents' testimony, grew on, grew my own as I was young, and I remember getting ready to go on my mission, and I was sitting working in a factory, and I I was doing just monotonous work, and so I was saying prayer, hey, I'm getting ready to go teach about this.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I've never really had those big spiritual experiences ever experiences everyone always talks about, you know.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I just had a quiet voice in my head telling me it's because you didn't need it, you don't need it, you already know it's true, and that was kind of the confirmation for me.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then growing up, getting out of the house on my own, had uh my own refiners fires that I had to go through in order to strengthen and build that baseline that I had as a kid.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that I think that journey is similar for everybody.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we can always rely on someone else who we love and who we trust, who we look up to.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, when you're by yourself and you have to make the decision, I think that that's where the trial of the faith comes.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then depending upon how we listen and act, that's how the testimony strengthens and you get to where you're just firm in it.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll tell you my the the the first one that I can really remember was when it was time for me to serve a mission, and I had I didn't want to at all.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I had worked really hard to be a basketball player, and towards the end of my, you know, I was not all world by any stretch, I was you know a D2 level player, but at the end of my senior year, I had this dream of playing college basketball at Barrie College in Rome, Georgia, close to where I grew up.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And right before my senior summer break began, I was over there working out with some guys on the team and had a good senior year.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the coach called me into his office and he said, Hey, um we're excited to tell you that we've been watching you and love the workouts and we're prepared to offer you a scholarship.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I was over the moon excited.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And as we sat and talked later in the conversation, he said, now there's this one thing I want to clear up.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: We understand that you're a Mormon, and there's no problem with that.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're free to worship however you like, but we also know that these Mormons oftentimes go on these two-year mission trips.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we just want to make sure that if we're gonna invest in you, that we have your commitment that I mean you can do that after the four years, but that you're not gonna come here for a little bit, get you all trained up to play, and then you're gonna leave.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember sitting there going, there's the answer.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to go.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I I just got he he just gave me my out, and I didn't really want to go anyway.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh I remember getting in the car and going home and practicing my speech to mom and dad, had the whole thing dialed in.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I am going to be the Steve Young of Barry College basketball, and I'm gonna I'm gonna represent the church by how good I play.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And because I mean that's basically the same thing playing for the 49ers and some no-name college in Rome, Georgia.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: But exactly totally, but I had it worked out in my 18-year-old brain, that's what was gonna happen.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And as I was driving home rehearsing my speech, I had it nailed and I walked in the house, and I still remember where my dad was sitting.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And for for those that are of the LDS faith, um, my dad was a mission president when I was younger.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: So there was an unspoken expectation.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it was a spoken expectation that that we were gonna go on mission.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I was prepared for an explosion to go off when I shared the news.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And had an explosion gone off, I knew exactly what I was going to do.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I was gonna go to Barry College and play basketball as a result of the explosion because that would have been just irrational and not right, and I had it all built up.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm guessing he reacted differently.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: He uh he listened as I explained with all this excitement.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: He offered me the scholarship, I got it, and he said, Son, I'm so proud, so happy for you.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know how hard you work, something along those lines.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then at the end of it, I was like, there's just one little thing.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he said that uh I could go on a mission, but it's at the end of the four years, and so you know I'm gonna just put that off and I'm gonna go play, and that was it.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then I braced for the explosion, and just my dad just said, Wow.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Again, he knew how hard I'd worked and complimented me, and then he said, There's just one thing I want you to do, and I will support you 100%.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be at every game cheering for you.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just there's just one thing, and I was like, What do you want?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm done.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: I will do it.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is not the way I thought this was gonna go.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: You want me to wash your car?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: You want me to mow the lawn, what do you, whatever it is, I'll do it.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I just want you to go upstairs and get down on your knees and ask Heavenly Father if I get emotional now talking about it.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Get down on your knees and ask Heavenly Father if this is what he wants you to do.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if he says yes, I will be there with you every step of the way.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, okay.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally remember walking up the stairs thinking, well, that was easy.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now I just need to talk Heavenly Father into it.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now the hard part starts.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh then I got down on my knees, and by the time I got back up, it was unmistakable.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I wasn't gonna be playing basketball at Barrie College, at least not right then.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And uh then I made one of the hardest calls I've ever made in my life to let him know that wasn't gonna happen, and that I was gonna go, and he obviously said, hey, we respect your decision, but you know, you could come try to walk on if you decide to come to school this year, and and because we're gonna put our scholarships awards, kids are gonna be here for four years, and so that was when I knew, and and I I thought I was walking away from basketball, and it was very hard for me, but I also knew it was the right thing.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you fast forward, this is this kind of fits into the whole uh the whole idea of you gotta go through the darkness, the murkiness.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: But uh on my mission, I I served in Sweden where it is dark a lot of the year and murky, and and I had this dream that one day I'd get to play basketball again.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And but towards the end of the two years there, because every every time we had a day off where we wrote our letters and all that stuff, I would go play basketball.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And about four months before I came home, I was working in in Stockholm in the mission office, and the the mission president came to me and said, I want you to just go all in for the rest of your mission and ask me for my basketball.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I gave it to him.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's hard.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I loved him, Keith Richie.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Keith and Vera Ritchie are some of the greatest people to ever walk the earth, but I I gave him the basketball and stopped, and so I thought, okay, this is over for me.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Got home, went to Auburn, and I'm gonna fast forward the story because this is how the Lord has always worked in my life.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I went to Auburn, tried to walk on the basketball team there, and was basically told, yeah, you could be here, but you're never gonna play ever, which is not what I wanted.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I said, okay, I'm gonna go find the school that I'm gonna play at.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I got really close to signing with North Georgia College when I got a message about this school up in Virginia.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Southern Virginia University had just become a thing, and it was not accredited, it was new, but it was a bunch of LDS kids that were the pioneers of this school.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And to make a very long story short, when the when the coach there found out about me, he was at Auburn a couple of weeks later, signed a letter of intent, blah, blah, blah.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I didn't go on to play in the NBA, obviously, but what did happen was I had a better basketball career at Southern Virginia than I ever would have had at Barrie as a kid straight out of high school.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Had the opportunity to go play on an all-American team and write the record books.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: That was all great from a basketball standpoint.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: All my dreams to the level that I believed occurred, but the important part was this was all leading me to where my wife was.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: The whole thing.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Had my dad exploded, had I not been willing to listen, I my whole life, the trajectory of my life would be completely different.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and everything that I know about your life happened once you got to Virginia.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, your your whole life completely changed.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: It did.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you would have missed out on all of it.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: All of it.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's a 0% chance I ever would have ended up at Southern Virginia if I had stayed in small town Georgia and and played at Barrie, which was my dream at the time.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing that I've started to realize over and over.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And now I just turned 50, so I'm an old man now.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: I can see that what the things, the things that I want aren't happening.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: If I'll take a step back, I'm usually being led to a better place.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I have to trust it and I have to exercise faith.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to be willing to listen.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're you're talking right about everything I've been preaching for the last year as I've been uh my focus for 2026 has been learning or helping others to listen to the spirit and act on the promptings they receive.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because so many times we receive promptings, we receive intuition, as it were, sixth sense, and a lot of us are afraid.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: The hardest, hardest thing to do is take that first step sometimes, especially into the unknown.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And but that's one thing that Tiffany and I have have really striven to do over the the last 30 years of marriage, but especially in the last 10 years is really focus on what does the Lord want us to do, where does he want us to go?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: We get him an impression, we act on it.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell you what, you've heard you've heard some of our life story.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: We've had a crazy, incredible, adventurous life that is completely different than we would have chosen for ourselves 30 years ago.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: But the Lord has led us and guided us, and and our life is much bigger than we would have chosen for ourselves had we been the uh ones at the helm instead of letting the Lord be the one at the helm.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: High school Tiffany Small would not have chosen to live in Serbia, I'm pretty confident.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Nor in Norway, nor um do all the different things that we're currently doing.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the things, since we're on a kind of a doctrinally safe setting, is when I there's a couple of stories in the Book of Mormon that that help us to see it, if we'll pay attention.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: One of them is when the Jaredites are trying to get to the promised land, and when they get on the boat and the wind and the storm is raging and they're scared.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine what that must have felt like when it was that very storm and the wind that was blowing them exactly where they needed to go.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that is such a great parable for us in our lives.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is sometimes it feels like the world is falling down around us, and maybe it is, so that we can see the world we're actually supposed to step into.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just I look at when we moved to Florida after I retired from the Air Force.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I went four months without a paycheck, and that was very, very, very, very stressful, especially for Tiffany.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: But fast forward, got the job at Delta.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um we listened, we ended up having some of our kids in Florida with us, even though it made no sense when we moved out there why we were going out there, other than we felt that's where the Lord wanted us.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And within a month of my retirement, we had three of our four kids out there with us.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um we we met a bunch of people through what we were doing.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Then that really refocused us on personal development.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: We we listened to the Lord to move up to Alabama and ran into uh or became friends with Devin, who moved for the same reasons to Alabama.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: The Lord sent him there, and then through Devin, we saw we got back in with your group expansion in order to now both of us were in a position financially, emotionally, spiritually, mentally to expand our faith, family, fitness, and finances.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'm down almost 20 pounds, my spiritual strength is higher than ever.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's I look, you can only look, you know, hindsight's 2020.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I look back at the path that led us to where we are now.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is not a path that we would have chosen ourselves, but we just act on the inspiration that that we're given, and it's put us on this path, which we love the path that we're on now.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can enjoy that journey in a different way.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, uh we can because it came with its own struggles.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've we've we've had to go through our refiners' fires in multiple different ways in different times, but we've come out stronger and on the other side because we've worked at it together.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love this.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the uh that's my key takeaway from it is when we're going through the the troubles, going through not only are we going through it and taking Jesus as our as our brother and our our savior and having him help us through it, but we're doing it together, which strengthens our marriage and strengthens our vows and strengthens everything about us, and we're happier and stronger today as a couple than we were 30 years ago, um by far, because of it.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think when we're in it, it's well, I know.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know that when we're in it, and there may be people listening to this right now who are in the storm and they're looking up saying, Heavenly Father, how could you let this happen to me?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing that's happening is literally taking us to our knees.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I believe that that's the point, is so that we'll end up on our knees and that we will learn to trust and believe that it's happening to take us to a better place.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's easy to say when things are going really well in your life, and it's it that's hard to say when your kid gets diagnosed with type 1 diabetes.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's hard when there's a death.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard when you can't wrap your head around why this is happening.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it seems like the world is gonna end.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if we'll trust him, not only will he make the burdens light, like he promises, but we can get that insight into this.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is a it's a Lot bigger than what happens here on this earth right now.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I went through five and a half years of constant pain, like level five pain, back pain.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing that it really did was it made me dependent on the Lord.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like dependent on getting on my knees and saying, Hey, this hurts.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Can I have some help here?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and eventually I was able to find somebody that was able to get me through that pain without surgery, etc.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it, you know, I still get a little bit of the pain when uh when everything tightens up in my back and everything, and but it re it's just a little reminder that, hey, I'm I'm not fully in control here, but God is.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can trust him, all will be well.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that there's one more thing that I would love to add to this because it's something that I missed for decades of my life, and that and that is while we're going through it, that I I believe that the Lord wants us to partner with him on what's coming next.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're not just powerless in this journey.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're part of what's going to happen.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just like we're sitting on a ride and waiting for it to end wherever he takes us.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: We have a say in this and visualizing and doing the work to visualize to in in the worldly terms, to they use that term to use visualization techniques.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: In the church, we say, look forward with an eye of faith.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: If if you don't know who Elder Corbett is, uh learn.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody who's listening to me, he's he came into the state conference here in Florida and changed changed the lives of a lot of people, mine included.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the principles that he taught was something that I'd overlooked my whole life.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that is how in the Book of Mormon, these prophets were looking forward with an eye of faith.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: They were visualizing, they were seeing.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you hear about old Lehi who's a visionary man, but I didn't dig into what that actually meant.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: What it meant was he was doing the work on his end to see what the Lord wanted him to see.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: So he was part of that journey.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't just taken, it didn't just happen to him.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, he had to, they all had to put forth effort.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and especially Mormon Moroni, when their entire civilization was crumbling around them, they they had to keep, you read the letters, and I just finished the Book of Mormon again.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you you read the letters of Mormon to his son Moroni, just telling him and buoying him up in his in his face, saying, Hey, this is all the sin and wickedness going on around me, but I know that you are still strong in the Lord, and that helps strengthen me.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just really, really neat to think about it that these prophets that were looking forward, as you say, with an eye of faith, they they were doing so because they could see, and it would strengthen them to try to help their family to continue to improve their their faith in in the Lord Jesus as well, to be able to see.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one of the best examples in all of scripture is right there in 1 Nephi chapter 5.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: I remember it because it's 1 Nephi 5, 5, where Lehi is out in the wilderness.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: They've sent the boys back to get the plates.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sariah is not thrilled with the situation, and it's like he's left us here to die.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And Lehi actually acknowledges right in this few verses, I know that I'm a visionary man, but the language that he uses there is like he's not saying, Hey, I think this could happen.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: He actually says, as a result of this, he's I'm gonna try to quote it right, but he says something to the effect of, but behold, as a result of all this, I have obtained a land of promise.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: I have obtained a land of he doesn't say, Hey, because of all this, we might make it.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: He says, I've obtained it.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that was eight years before they got there.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and you you gotta imagine Sariah looking at him like, you've obtained what we're we're in the wilderness, Lehi.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Our kids might be dead.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: What have you obtained exactly?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: But he saw it as though it had already happened.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's how great his faith was because he had done that work, that visualization.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: He saw it, he partnered with the Lord and saw it, and that's that's the message.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody who's going through a dark time and struggling with their faith, do that work, do that spiritual work to visualize what it looks like on the other side.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: See it before it actually happens.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can do that, it get you get there a lot faster.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and to go along with that, our words have power.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we were just talking about this yesterday in the class that we were on, but also it goes along with um in the Book of Mormon and the Bible, it says our thoughts become our words become our thoughts become words, our words become actions, and our actions lead to our future.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: So when you are in the thick of it, when you're in the dark, when you're in the the muckity muck, if all your words are negative, it's gonna keep you in the negative because it's gonna keep your mind.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I teach visualization and meditation and all that, along with the gospel, um, and how they work with the gospel, they're actually truths of the gospel that um that if you visualize and you use your words and you speak in the present tense the good things, then those blessings will be poured out upon you.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: But when you speak of things in the negative and the and that maybe they'll happen and in a wishy-washy kind of way, it's always going to be further away and and take longer, or you might you won't necessarily get the dreams and goals and and wishes that you want, because when you're talking about the negative, you're bringing more negative into your life.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: When you're talking in a positive way, uh as though it's already happened, like Lehi did, they arrived.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: It took them eight years to get there because they had to cross an ocean and build a ship to do it, but they arrived at the Promised Land as he knew that he had already obtained eight years prior.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the same thing works in our life.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a goal or you're you want to get out of the pain that you're going through, start talking about it as though you've already arrived on the other side.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: What does it look like on the other side?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And start talking about obtaining it, obtaining that as already having been achieved.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'd learned to trust, I'd learned to have faith.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: What I hadn't learned to do is map it out and see it.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd learned to map things out, to plan, to have goals, all that, but I had not learned to actually do the visualization work because when you do that work, you recognize where you're supposed to go along the way.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Using that Lehigh example really quick, and I'm gonna get off my soapbox.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: But that that example, when he was saying that to Soraya, I don't believe that he knew that the bow was gonna break.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe that he necessarily knew that they were gonna have to build a ship.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he knew that uh the storm was gonna rage and all that stuff.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: All he knew was it's there and I'll be led there.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how it is for us.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: We get so hung up on the how.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that we take faith out of the equation.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have to know every single step.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: I need to be meticulous in my plan so that I know what I'm gonna do in every instance.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, as a church leader, I get caught up in it sometimes and have to stay back, take a step back, and be like, hold on, this isn't this isn't my plan that I'm executing here.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: I know where I'm supposed to go.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: He would back me.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: When we get caught up like that and have to have it all planned out before we take the first step, guess what's the hardest thing to do?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Take the first step.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if if you just trust this is where I've got to go, you take the step, the Lord shows you what the next step is gonna be.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't always give it to us all at once.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Completely agree.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: But that in a nutshell, I wish I had this podcast when I was 15 years old.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I had this podcast when I was 25 years old and 35 years old to be able to think back, okay, I've got 75% of it, but man, it could be a lot easier with a less stress and anxiety if I would just do the that work that I frankly I didn't know to do it.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was also one of those guys, which will make you laugh now, knowing my business partner and all, but I was completely against anything that had to do with meditation.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was some nonsense.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: You and Tiffany are very much alike.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: We grew up in the same area.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not only that, but you were best friends, and and you two are very much alike in the way you think, and Tiffany was the same way until recently, in the last two years, three years, where she realized that no, all this woo-woo meditation and visualization and all that stuff, it's gospel principles just as taught differently, as taught differently, but it is got gospel principles behind it.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because there is anything good is of God, anything evil is of the devil, and so there is we can attribute the good things to God because he inspires all men.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, as long as he is part of the equation, yes, because I will say, I still believe that some of that stuff goes way too far and it makes the human being the center of the universe and all that, which I I don't subscribe to that, but I do 100% subscribe to that getting into meditation could also be praying on your own mountain or visualization could be looking forward with an eye of faith.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: As long as the Lord's our partner in it, then it is absolutely doctrine.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that and that's the way I teach it because you're exactly right.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: The world takes that kernel of truth, and then Satan goes, I can mess with this.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I can make people worship themselves instead of worshiping God, which is what happens when people delve into the worldly side of visualization meditation, where they become their own God.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so Satan takes something good and he likes to mess with it.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that is something you always have to watch out for.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: With when we are talking about these other things, you have to look where is where is God in the equation?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is he a part of it?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Then yes, let's let's focus on this.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is he pushed out to the side and you become God?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a little too much woo-woo.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, a lot too much for me.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I ever got to that point, then I would feel like uh it's completely inadequate.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it wouldn't it wouldn't work for me.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: But so so let's go, you know, circle back.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: I hate I hated that when when Jen Sotkey was the uh spokesperson at the White House, but I'm gonna circle back.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: But anyways, let's circle back a little bit back to the um when we're going through hard times.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: As a as a stake leader, you've worked with a lot of people that have been going through hard times.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you yourself have been through hard times, I've been through hard times.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, for me to have this podcast today, it took 50 years of learning grief, uh, learning from my grief, doing things I should, doing things I shouldn't, learning lessons, repenting, uh, getting to the point where I have wisdom about a few things, and I don't lean upon my own wisdom, I lean upon the Lord to be able to uh to do this because my ultimate goal is to help you, the listener, improve your spirituality.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: So let's take like five minutes and we'll finish up.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: But what as you've helped people get through the dark times, what are probably what is the best advice that you've given or would give to people that are struggling, that come to you, they're struggling either spiritually, emotionally, physically, um in their marriage, whatever, they're struggling.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: What is the the advice that you would give to them?
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: They're going through the dark times right now.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: First thing is no two dark times are the same, and so first thing I really try hard to do is understand from their perspective what's happening, and then typically when they're in a dark enough place to where they get to where they want to sit with me, then they have a whole story about what everything means, and so I try to help them to rewrite that story.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: The words that they're using, like you already alluded to, they're they're co-authors in their reality.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're using negative words, the world's coming to an end, everything's bad, and more bad things are coming as a result, then they're attracting those things because that's what they're looking for.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna find them.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: You will find whatever you're looking for.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so helping them to recognize the language, the thoughts, and then break out of that.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then also that there's that trust component.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: I try to help them to remember the times when they were the most spiritually strong, when they felt the closest to the Lord.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: What were they doing?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: What were the habits that they had in their life?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: What made them feel that close?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Are they doing those things now?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: And oftentimes they're not because when you go through the darkness, it's a that old saying, when you need to pray the most is when you want to pray the least.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, sometimes it's um it's the primary answers that really are the answer.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's the reason why they don't.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Trust God.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I don't say those things like that, hey, you just need to go home and read your scriptures and everything's gonna be okay.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: But there's there's specific stories from the scriptures that typically apply to what people are going through in their lives, and so sharing those, but mostly it's helping them to get out of whatever cycle they're they're in mentally and recognize wow, I I'm actually part of creating this dreary path that I'm on.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to make a decision today to to change the way I think.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: And when I when the natural mindset goes back, when my natural man brain goes back down this path, I'm going to say, no, I'm not gonna go down this path.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna say happy things to myself, even though I don't believe them, because it will be better, the results of that will be better than digging deeper into the hole that I'm in.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that that applies to most of us, frankly, when we're going through the hard time.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: You see these people that are just so resilient and happy all the time, doesn't mean their life is perfect, it means they've mastered that component of their mindset, and those are the people that we all want to be around.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I've always said you become like the five people that you hang around the most.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, because either the four are influencing you, or you're one of the five, one of the four influencing somebody else.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: So look at your circle around you, and what are their attitudes, what are their activities, what how is their faith?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Are they strengthening you or bringing you down?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's something always to look at in those situations.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Very real.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for your advice and the stories and everything you've shared.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what people don't know about you or may not know about you is that you are you run a coaching program to build faith, fitness, family, and finance.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh call and it's expansion.com, correct?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: That word without the E in front.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, just expansion.com.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm gonna list that in the show notes so that people can uh see it if they're interested in learning more and working uh possibly with you for coaching because like I said, Tiffany and I have have joined your your coaching program, and it is absolutely changing our life for the better.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I appreciate you.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate the fact we've been able to renew our friendship and uh build it even better and build it stronger.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you, and thank you for being willing to do this.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Man, very kind of you again.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: What an honor to get to spend some time hanging out with my friend, and then also anybody who's listened to this.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Been amazing.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Makes me feel good to just get to be part of it.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for asking.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: This has been Todd Talks.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: I am going to stop the recording here, and we help you, Spencer and I, to develop your spiritual life so that you're ready for the Lord's second coming.