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Pole Position Politics: NASCAR’s Long Ride Through American Ideology · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

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Brake Fix's History of Motorsports series is brought to you in part
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by the International Motor Racing Research Center, as well as the
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Society of Automotive Historians, the Watkins Glen Area Chamber of
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Commerce, and the Argettsinger family.
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Pole position.
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NASCAR Nation and National Politics by Mark Howell.
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This presentation, part of an ongoing larger body of research, explores the
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long, complicated, and often controversial relationship between NASCAR, the National
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Association for Stock Car Automobile Racing, and the American political system.
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From NASCAR founder Big Bill France's campaign support of then presidential
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candidate George Wallace, to former NASCAR Grand National driver Ty Scott's arrest
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for allegedly attacking police officers during the Capitol riot on January
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6, 2021, the road to Washington, D.
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C.
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has often taken a detour, usually a hard right, through Daytona Beach.
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Part of this paper looks at NASCAR's connection to various political
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candidates, both during campaigns and after votes have been counted.
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And certified another section of this presentation examines
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the use of race cars as campaign promotional vehicles over the years.
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This paper explores the very public and very strategic alliance between
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political candidates and NASCAR Nation.
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From Jimmy Carter welcoming Grand National Drivers to the White House,
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to Ronald Reagan sharing Kentucky Fried Chicken with Richard Petty, the
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relationship between stock car racing and politics presents itself as a calculated
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combination of regional identity and popular culture driven stereotypes.
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Dr.
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Mark D.
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Howell has been involved with motorsports his entire life.
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He earned a BA in English in 1987 and an MA in American Studies in
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1990 from Penn State, then earned a PhD in American Culture Studies from
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Bowling Green State University in 1995.
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His dissertation evolved into From Moonshine to Madison Avenue, a Cultural
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History of the NASCAR Winston Cup Series, which was published in 1997.
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In 2014, Dr.
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Howell co edited with Dr.
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John Miller of Longwood University, Motorsports and American Culture,
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from Demolition Derbies to NASCAR.
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Dr.
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Howell's full time job since August of 1997 has been a professor of
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communications at Northwestern Michigan College in Traverse City.
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He spent two years before NMC as a visiting assistant professor in the
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Department of American Thought and Language at Michigan State University.
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Mark has also taught advanced courses for Tiffin University,
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Oakland University, Ferris State University, and Davenport University.
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There are two events that prompted today's presentation.
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The first was back in October of 2021, when Brandon Brown, a young NASCAR XFINITY
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Series driver, won his first career race at Talladega Super Speedway in Alabama.
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NBC's Kelly Stavast was interviewing Brown track side on live television
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when nearby fans began a very loud, very profane chant about President Joe Biden.
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Stavast trying to shift the narrative.
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Told viewers the crowd was actually shouting, Let's go Brandon!
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In celebration of Brown's inaugural career win.
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Within days, all sorts of MAGA marketed Let's go Brandon merchandise appeared.
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From shirts and decals to flags and yard signs.
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The derogatory slogan embarrassed both Brown and NASCAR executives, all of
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whom publicly distanced themselves from the explicit chant that spread quickly
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among Trump's faithful followers.
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The second was just this past June, when I learned that a friend of mine,
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a gentleman I've known for a long time, For almost 30 years, former NASCAR
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Cup Series driver, Ty Scott, Ty drove during the mid 1970s through the late
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1970s for Walter Ballard, who sadly, Walter just passed away last weekend.
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But Ty was arrested for his involvement in the January 6th
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attack on the United States Capitol.
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Ty and his son were both formally charged with assaulting
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and injuring police officers.
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These events prompted me to explore the relationship between NASCAR
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nation and national politics.
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We can spend the rest of our lives debating current events or talking
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about political science, but my focus here is on the role that NASCAR has
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played in the evolution of nationally recognized political ideologies.
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American society can be a bit guarded when it comes to the federal government.
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People are sometimes suspicious of big, in quotation marks, government oversight
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and excessive taxation, an attitude that's commonly linked to a politically
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conservative mindset as one might see within the Republican Party, let's say.
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It's very much a hands off or laissez faire philosophy.
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An attitude driven by America's sociocultural history, the unique
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relationship between American politics and motorsports originates from this
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traditional value we commonly call rugged individualism or self reliance.
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As I suggested in my first book, the origins of stock car racing were closely
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tied to the heavily agrarian economies of the American mid Atlantic and Southeast.
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Scots Irish immigrants brought to America their practice of fermenting and
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distilling grass crops like barley, rye, and corn into forms that were easier
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to preserve, transport, and store.
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These alcoholic byproducts could also be used to barter for goods and services.
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When the newly formed federal government tried levying taxes on
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these fruits of rural frontier labor, the settlers who tended the land, grew
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the crops, and distilled the liquor as a form of both currency and curative
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asserted their autonomy and stood in defiance of federal interference.
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This revenue stream led to the passage of a national whiskey tax in 1791.
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The hard working, predominantly Scots Irish frontiersmen intimidated federal
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tax collectors until 1794, when newly elected President George Washington
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sent 13, 000 federal and state militia.
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The militia came from Pennsylvania, Virginia, New Jersey, and Maryland.
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He sent them to western Pennsylvania, the region near what is now
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Pittsburgh, around the Alleghenies.
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The idea was to enforce the new tax and bring the disgruntled farmers into line.
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Washington ordered commissioners to begin negotiations with the the
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frontiersman while at the same time leading the aforementioned troops
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toward possible confrontation.
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The Whiskey Rebellion played a role in the ongoing formation of political
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parties in the United States, but it also reflected the qualities of rugged
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individualism or self reliance that eventually brought us to the high banked
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asphalt at Daytona International Speedway.
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It was hardscrabble subsistence farming that sustained the frontier tradition of
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fermenting and distilling grass crops.
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Throughout Appalachia, the primary crop turned into liquid currency was corn.
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With corn mash, sugar, water, a heat source, and the proper equipment,
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people throughout the American South could provide for their
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communities by, once again, standing in defiance, of federal legislation.
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The cottage industries of moonshining and bootlegging grew from the public's
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disdain for the 18th Amendment, which was intended to control the manufacture,
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transportation, and sale of alcohol, with an emphasis on federal taxation.
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This disdain sustained the rebellious attitudes and activities that eventually
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caught the attention of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
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Now, from a folkloristic and romanticized perspective, bootleggers with heavy
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feet and modified sedans brought a much more individualistic quality
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to the sport of stock car racing.
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NASCAR founder William Getty, Big Bill, France, recognized
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the public's fascination with these outlaw personalities.
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Many of NASCAR's earliest stars earned money by bootlegging moonshine.
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Drivers like Junior Johnson, the last American hero according to Tom
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Wolfe's 1965 Esquire article, who did jail time in Chillicothe, Ohio
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in 1956 after getting arrested at his family's still in North Carolina.
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This outlaw mythos has been part of NASCAR ever since.
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Race teams operate as independent contractors.
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As such, teams have a somewhat antagonistic relationship with their
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sanctioning bodies, disagreements between racers and those who govern
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the series in which they compete.
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Sometimes this antagonism is driven by dedicated race fans who embody the
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perceived values of the sport, and sometimes the antagonism is more playful.
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Like when Roger Penske or Dan Gurney were nominated as presidential candidates
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who'd support motor racing interests.
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But if we look at the history of motorsports, we see connections
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linking racers to real life political structures and or ideologies dating back
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to the earliest days of competition.
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In 1909, Barney Oldfield told the media that his national racer, nicknamed Old
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Glory, would make sure that, and this is a direct quote, the foreigners that crosses
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my path with Old Glory as my colors is going to find a Boston tea party brewing
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before the dust and smoke clears away.
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In 1910, Barney Oldfield received a telegram from Kaiser Wilhelm of
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Germany, praising America's speed king for setting a land speed record in the
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Blitzenbends at Ormond Beach in Florida.
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In the late 1930s, the Auto Union Silver Arrow Racing Program, also the
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Mercedes Racing Program, was supported both emotionally and financially
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by Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party as a symbol of the movement's
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technological and competitive strength.
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Resulting in cars that dominated most of the races in which they ran, as
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we have heard in a couple of programs and presentations over the years.
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In 1972, Texan Lloyd Ruby drove the Silent Majority Special at
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Indianapolis in honor of that emerging sociopolitical philosophy and the
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Americans who believed in its emphasis on traditional, more conservative values.
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In 2001, American values were emblazoned across NASCAR following 9 11, with
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cars carrying paint schemes and language in response to the event.
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In 2013, Texas Motor Speedway hosted the NRA 500 NASCAR Cup Series
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event, with the full support of Republican Governor Greg Abbott.
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And in 2015, Republican interests increased voter turnout in Florida
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with the Rev the Vote Sponsorship Program of teams in both the
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Xfinity and the Cup Series.
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Now motorsports are at the mercy of their respective collective economies.
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NASCAR Nation has been affected by the cost of competition for race teams and
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by the cost of consumption for race fans.
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In NASCAR Nation, as we often say in the study of popular culture, you pay for the
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privilege of taking part in the event.
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Big Bell France understood this all too well.
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He knew that stock car racing was a viable way to grab people's attention,
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and he knew that politicians would most likely want to get their names
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and causes in front of an audience.
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In 1972, France used his influence to win the state of Florida for
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presidential candidate George Wallace.
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France helped guide Wallace's campaign because Wallace, as
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governor of Alabama, allowed for the construction of the Alabama
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International Motor Speedway in 1968.
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Wallace's campaign ended, however, after he was paralyzed in 1972
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in an assassination attempt.
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That said, NASCAR slowly grew into a viable political force, its
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influence wielded by the France family and extending to the White House.
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NASCAR was a conduit for capitalizing on and exploiting the sociocultural
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attitudes and interests of its fan base.
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During the oil embargo of 1974, NASCAR came to the aid of President
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Richard Nixon and shortened the distance of that year's Daytona 500
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and select other races by 50 miles.
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To the federal government's surprise, NASCAR wound up consuming 30
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percent less fuel in 1974 than it did in 1973, and the restrictions
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were summarily dropped in 1975.
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In gratitude, President Nixon held a gathering at the White House to
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commemorate race teams for their achievement and for their civic duty.
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Junior Johnson's official pardon by President Ronald Reagan in 1986
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reflected the long and ideological relationship between NASCAR
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Nation and national politics.
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As a sport with significant corporate ties, NASCAR promotes consumerism,
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and as a characteristically American sport with a discernibly Caucasian,
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Christian, family oriented, working class audience, NASCAR became a
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safe haven for conservative causes.
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In 1984, Reagan flew to Daytona International Speedway to watch
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the Firecracker 400 on July 4th.
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It turned out to be the day that Richard Petty won his 200th
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career NASCAR Cup Series race.
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To honor Petty's accomplishment, the president sat down with NASCAR
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teams to enjoy a picnic of Kentucky Fried Chicken and Pepsi Cola, both
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companies being loyal NASCAR sponsors.
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The day resulted in some of the most recognized photographs in
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auto racing history, not entirely because of Petty's milestone victory.
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In fact, one of the most famous photographs is the one of Petty running
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down the backstretch at Daytona while Air Force One is coming in for a
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landing at the nearby airport, and it's a picture that became sort of
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famous and kind of synonymous of this connection between politics and NASCAR.
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Richard Petty is NASCAR's most famous or most recognized Republican.
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His family's roots in racing go back to the bootlegging days when his father,
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Lee, hauled Moonshine in North Carolina.
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Despite his political leanings, Richard Petty was a founding member of
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the Professional Drivers Association that boycotted the inaugural NASCAR
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Grand National Race at Talladega because of safety concerns.
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Richard also won the 1979 Daytona 500 that, number one, put NASCAR on
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the national radar, and number two, leveled financial penalties on Cale
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Yarborough and the Allison brothers for their televised post race fight.
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As Bobby Allison once told me, the punishment that cost his
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family income ended up earning tens of millions of dollars.
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For NASCAR, because NASCAR used a lot of that footage in promotional materials.
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Such hypocrisy puts NASCAR in an uncomfortable position.
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Every event on the NASCAR Cup Series schedule is televised, and
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such coverage provides extensive optics for the enterprises that
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put their names on cars each week.
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Such optics can, unfortunately, rile the ideological emotions of NASCAR Nation.
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We saw this when NASCAR decided to ban the confederate flag in the wake of the Black
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Lives Matter movement a few years ago.
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We also saw it as well in the backlash from fans and from Jimmy Spencer, who
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disagreed with the inclusion of Toyota as a NASCAR approved manufacturer.
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These same optics can celebrate the ideals promoted by NASCAR itself,
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such as the customary pre race flyovers featuring military aircraft.
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If a politician wants to align themselves with the estimated 75 million citizens,
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quote unquote, of NASCAR Nation, all they have to do is find a place to fit in.
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Georgia Governor Jimmy Carter was a friend of stock car racing.
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As president in 1978, Carter invited NASCAR stars and cars to the White House,
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despite him holding a Mideast Peace Summit at Camp David when NASCAR came calling.
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That didn't matter because it was First Lady Rosalyn Carter who took charge
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and made Gail Yarborough and David Pearson and Benny Parsons and car owner
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Bud Moore, among others, feel at home.
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Democratic politicians like Jimmy Carter recognized the influence of
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NASCAR, but responses from fans have been a blend of apathy and anger.
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When Bill Clinton was running for president in 1992, he was booed.
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By fans at Darlington Speedway in South Carolina.
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Despite this, several less vocal attendees, including NASCAR team
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members and drivers, according to South Carolina news writer Kathleen
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Decker, believe that Clinton would indeed make a good president.
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In 2011, then First Lady Michelle Obama and Second Lady Jill Biden
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attended the NASCAR season finale at Homestead Miami Speedway in
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recognition of veterans families.
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They too were enthusiastically booed.
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A writer from Great Britain posited that NASCAR fans perhaps were threatened
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by intelligent, independent women.
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Perhaps that was true.
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NASCAR Nation was somewhat indifferent and almost critical when Janet Guthrie,
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an aerospace engineer and experienced SCCA competitor, tried to qualify for the 1976
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World 600 at Charlotte Motor Speedway.
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Even though Sarah Christian and Louise Smith, drove in NASCAR
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events during the 1940s and 1950s.
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In 2004, I did a radio show with NASCAR executive Herb Branham and Sears Point
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Raceway president at the time, Steve Page, regarding this phenomenon called
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NASCAR dads, the term coined by political pollster Celinda Lake in response to
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swing voting soccer moms who were part of our popular culture at the time.
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President George W.
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Bush was campaigning for re election and looking to connect with voters.
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Of the two major sporting events he could attend that February,
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either the Super Bowl or the Daytona 500, he opted for Daytona.
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His decision was politically motivated.
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Fan favorite Dale Earnhardt Jr.
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had financial support from the National Guard, and the United
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States was at war in the Middle East.
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Public radio listeners in the Pacific Northwest openly criticized the NASCAR
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National Guard relationship, yet no one mentioned President Bush's very visible
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campaign visit to the Daytona 500.
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And Jimmy Carter was not the only Democratic president to
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host NASCAR at the White House.
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Barack Obama had Cup Series champions Jimmy Johnson, Kevin Harvick,
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Brad Keselowski, and Kyle Busch to Washington during his time in office.
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And visits to the White House during that time included drivers like Clint
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Boyer, Denny Hamlin, and four time NASCAR Cup Series champion Jeff Gordon.
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At a rally in Georgia in 2016, then NASCAR CEO Brian France enthusiastically
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endorsed GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump, who stood next to
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drivers Mark Martin, Ryan Newman, Bill Elliott, and Bill's son, Chase.
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Each driver made a brief, rather generic stump speech, and it was widely speculated
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throughout the racing community that the drivers were actually ordered by
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NASCAR executives to make an appearance.
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It was clear to the Republican Party that Donald Trump's road to the White House
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went straight through NASCAR Nation.
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Teams signed deals to promote Trump on cars in all three of the Turing Series.
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In return, President Trump welcomed NASCAR champions to Washington in
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what were now very customary media events and photo opportunities.
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And those opportunities aren't just for racers.
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We see this all the time with Super Bowl champions, college
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sports champions, the World Series.
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I mean, the Los Angeles Dodgers will probably go to the White
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House at some point here.
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So that idea has become part of our national tradition.
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When the seemingly more culturally inclusive NASCAR that banned Confederate
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flags publicly supported the cause of Cup Series driver Bubba Wallace, who
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openly championed the Black Lives Matter movement, then President Donald Trump
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criticized the sanctioning body for giving in to liberal pressure, for going woke,
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as he put it, and for blatantly insulting the stereotyped good ol boy audience.
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Such political prejudice is curious when you examine the statistical
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realities of NASCAR's quite diverse fan based demographics.
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NASCAR fans typically skew younger in age.
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The majority are male, as we would most likely predict, but 44
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percent live in urban environments.
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Half have gone to college, at least for some time.
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The average income is 1, 000.
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Pretty healthy 72, 000 and notice that the fastest growing demographics
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are African Americans and Hispanics.
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So the idea of NASCAR being that good old boy sport that is
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changing as our culture changes.
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More importantly, NASCAR Nation is revered for fan loyalty to sponsors.
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As we know, the sport consistently ranks number one among all
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other professional sports.
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In 2020, Donald Trump became the second sitting president in history to attend
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the Daytona 500, and this past May, he attended the World 600 Cup Series
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race at Charlotte Motor Speedway as the guest of car owner Richard Childress.
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Who then hosted a political rally for Trump in the Charlotte area.
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Trump's running mate, J.
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D.
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Vance, attended the Cup Series event at the Charlotte Roval.
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He was a special guest at the driver's meeting.
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He got to spend time with Richard and Kyle Petty, and he left nine laps
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into the post season elimination race.
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NASCAR has wrestled with sociopolitical ideologies throughout its 76 year history.
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The days of Johnny Reb at Darlington, South Carolina eventually gave way to
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an open expression of national identity.
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Today's NASCAR is now currently facing a federal antitrust lawsuit brought
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on by a Cup Series team owner who is also one of the most famous and beloved
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African American athletes of all time.
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For more information visit www.
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fema.
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gov This is the liminal space NASCAR occupies in 2024, a space where the
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sport's current fan base reflects a growing and changing diverse and
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inclusive society, while the sport itself reflects on its sociocultural heritage
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and tries to balance its relationship to national politics with the evolving
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opinions and attitudes of its fans.
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And with that, I thank you for your time and your attention.
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Mark is always very interesting and obviously very appropriate.
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Are there any Democrats that drive a NASCAR?
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Not that I have seen or come across.
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I'm sure there are people, and I guess that there are folks who have liberal
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sensibilities, but for them to come out publicly and to admit that, I think in
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some cases might be not career suicide, but at least career possibly damaging.
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And again, it has to do with that.
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Who are you as the individual?
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Are you part of this team and what they espouse?
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Or do you stand out and stand out for yourself?
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I'm guessing probably Bubba Wallace, the most liberal of the drivers and
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whether some of the guys in his posse.
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I mean, you've got Ryan Blaney and some of the younger drivers there, Chase Elliott.
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I don't know where they would skew.
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And that goes back to the idea of the rally in Georgia.
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Bill Elliott and Chase were there because they're state superstars.
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But I think there was some question as to just how devoted Chase was to the cause.
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If you look at photographs of him speaking at that event, he looks like
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he'd rather be getting a root canal.
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So, but I'm not sure I can't say for sure.
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How much more exploration do you think we should be taking in this ideological?
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We tend to be focused on, you know, Paul Bach has done with
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fascism, Uyghur has done with the National Socialists in Germany.
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When I first saw this topic, it was like, how much has
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there really been done on this?
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This has seemed like a very unique approach you're taking.
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Just from the American standpoint, this idea of self reliance, those of us
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who teach literature, we kind of lump that into Ralph Waldo Emerson and all
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of his addresses about self reliance.
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But, you know, you can go back to de Tocqueville and go back to those
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very early days of the new country, the emerging country of the United
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States, and you see that idea.
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One of the things de Tocqueville wrote about Was seeing this independent spirit.
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Americans didn't have to answer to a king.
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They didn't have to answer really to anybody.
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And that's kind of where that thread became part of our collective fabric.
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I think there's really not a lot that's been done looking at this connection.
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There's more work to be done, certainly.
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With the push for electric cars in motorsports, um, I
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know the NHRA has attempted it.
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I believe they've tested some out in NASCAR, but I think that's another
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issue that could clearly divide the country because one side is really
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pushing it with a close deadline, and the other side is more relaxed.
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Going with the person's choice.
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So how do you feel that will come down in the future?
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That's a good observation to make because the next gen car, which is the direct
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descendant of the car of tomorrow, the next gen car has been designed to contain
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regenerative Equipment, the idea that they could make those cars hybrids very easily.
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They have the room under the hood and around the chassis to
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put that regenerative equipment.
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NASCAR tested an electric vehicle out at Chicago during the summer.
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Again, it was all about optics.
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It was getting that particular car in front of an urban, probably
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a little more liberal audience.
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I think the fan feedback was pretty exciting, but that's going
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to be a direct sort of assault.
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To those traditional sensibilities of the internal combustion motor,
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fossil fuels, you know, the roots of what made automobiling automobiling,
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even though electric cars, as we know, go back to the turn of the 20th
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century, the electric cars were on the streets back in the early 1900s.
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But I think it's going to create a real divide within NASCAR nation because
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you're going to have the younger audience.
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That's leaning toward that more environmentally conscious idea.
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NASCAR went that way.
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NASCAR has a very active green sort of environmentally conscious aspect to it.
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They encourage recycling of oil.
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They encourage recycling of products, plant trees at all the
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different venues around the country.
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NASCAR is trying to lean in that more environmentally conscious direction.
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But again, you're going to get that pushback from that traditional, this is
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the way NASCAR has been don't change it.
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And I think we're already starting to see rumbles of that with the next gen car.
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When people start complaining about how many lug nuts are on a wheel,
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that tells you that there's a difference of opinion out there that's
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just bubbling beneath the surface.
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Just to build on that, I think there's a safety concern that
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still needs to be addressed.
28:05
If you went full EV, the battery situation, you have the massive, you know,
28:10
wreck, and you have five cars piling up and they all become an inferno blaze,
28:14
that's a serious risk to the drivers, and a lot of tracks aren't built for that.
28:17
Equipped to support how to extinguish an EV fire.
28:21
We have Formula E, so obviously they're doing something.
28:24
I don't know enough about what's going on in that realm, and how
28:27
they address incidents and crashes.
28:28
I think something like Formula Series tends to wreck a little less spectacularly
28:34
than NASCAR does, so I don't know if we're there yet to go full EV.
28:37
Maybe there is that middle ground of hybrid where you, you have both and
28:41
you have less risk to the drivers, to the track, to the vehicles themselves.
28:45
Yeah, just the idea of how to deal with an accident with an EV.
28:48
Rescue crews wouldn't be able to necessarily use the jaws of life because
28:53
there have been cases where the jaws of life can actually risks of electrocution.
28:58
Emergency crews have to learn specifically how to deal with EV incidents.
29:03
And, I hate to say it, from the optics perspective Two or three EVs colliding
29:08
at Talladega will not have the same kind of, harden the language here, explosive
29:13
effect of cars that are running internal combustion gasoline powered motors.
29:19
We see all those photographs of the cars that are on fire and sliding
29:23
down the wall and down the banking.
29:25
That's not going to be as readily visible with an EV.
29:28
There are so many different factors playing into that.
29:31
But, The culture is going that way.
29:33
It's something that NASCAR is going to have to confront here.
29:36
Seriously, very soon.
29:37
I just like the sound of 40 V8 motors going around Talladega.
29:42
I don't think I could get used to EVs going around Talladega.
29:45
It just wouldn't sound the same.
29:46
In an interview with Bloomberg.
29:48
back over the summer and the writer was talking about how Dodge was ceasing
29:53
manufacture of gasoline powered internal combustion muscle cars, chargers, and
29:58
some of their sort of higher end products.
30:01
And this idea that I guess you can actually flip a switch in the car and
30:05
make it sound like an internal combustion motor so that if you really miss the
30:10
sound of big iron under the hood, burning gasoline, you can essentially
30:15
Tweak the sound of the car so that it copies that particular kind of resonance
30:20
as opposed to just this kind of whoosh going by you on the highway world.
30:25
Rally Cross went in that direction.
30:27
They switched to full EV back in 22, 21, and the pushback
30:32
from the fans were the racing's.
30:33
Very exciting, but it doesn't.
30:35
Sound as exciting anymore and also if they have a crash they do this in
30:38
endurance racing as well There'll be a red light will flash on and that
30:42
will say something is damaged in the electrics It is now dangerous.
30:45
This car must stop immediately But based on what you were saying about
30:49
cultures going EV way and so on and so forth Would you argue that NASCAR?
30:54
Pushes society forward, or does it more react to what's going on?
30:57
There's that push and pull of tradition.
30:59
You get those fans who don't want anything to change.
31:02
They want the NASCAR of 1960, 1970 to be the NASCAR of 2025.
31:09
And that's just not going to be the case.
31:11
And what some fans tend to forget is that those good old days
31:15
weren't really all that good.
31:17
I mean, when you had races where the winning driver was one or two laps
31:23
ahead of the second place driver, that's what people are saying, you
31:26
know, we want that kind of racing.
31:28
Well, I don't think they do, you know, you're not going to see finishes
31:32
like that, where you have a car that's a lap ahead of everybody else.
31:36
On the evening news or on ESPN Sports Center, you're going to see
31:40
the photo finishes where you've got three cars crossing the line within
31:44
literally inches of each other.
31:46
That's where the excitement comes in, and that's where a lot of new fans
31:49
are becoming interested in the sport, but it's that old traditional guard,
31:53
that kind of old school NASCAR nation.
31:56
They don't want the new technology.
31:58
They don't want.
31:59
The new rules, people have been complaining about this playoff
32:02
system and you got to win to get in and it's all about points.
32:06
That wasn't like it used to be.
32:08
Yeah.
32:08
Well, it used to be that Dale Earnhardt would win the national championship two
32:12
weeks before the last race of the season.
32:14
So I guess it becomes this idea of how do you define what good competition is?
32:19
How do you define what excitement is?
32:21
And that changes with our culture.
32:23
We become desensitized to certain things over time.
32:27
Okay.
32:27
But the EV question, it's going to require fundamental change throughout the sport.
32:31
It's going to change the way teams operate.
32:33
It's going to change the way drivers think about their on track behavior.
32:38
What do you do when you have to change a battery?
32:40
Like right now, I guess, Formula E, you have two cars, at least you used to,
32:44
and you would just simply swap cars.
32:46
Are they going to do that in NASCAR?
32:47
It's still uncharted territory.
32:49
The sanctioning body, I think, is trying to sort of think in that direction,
32:54
start moving in that direction.
32:55
But again, there's going to be some real criticism coming back from
32:59
those old school fans who they don't want to see that big brother control
33:03
mechanism coming in, even though that's what NASCAR has been since 1948.
33:08
Bill France was a benevolent dictator.
33:11
That's the way he operated.
33:12
It was his show.
33:13
So those two attitudes probably aren't going to play well together over time.
33:18
Mark, that was terrific as always.
33:20
Thank you so much.
33:23
Thank you, Ken.
33:24
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