Latest / The Death Of Journalism / Episode Two Hundred Sixty Eight: The Dumbest Conspiracy

Transcript

Episode Two Hundred Sixty Eight: The Dumbest Conspiracy · The Death Of Journalism

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcomed episode two hundred and sixty eight of the Death
0:03
Speaker 1: of Journalism podcast. My name is John Zigler. I'm your
0:05
Speaker 1: host on today's show. As the Epstein stupidity continues to
0:09
Speaker 1: dominate the news cycle, I debate cable news legend in
0:13
Speaker 1: liberal commentator David Schuster on what is really going on,
0:17
Speaker 1: how we are now living in two totally different worlds
0:20
Speaker 1: when it comes to climate change. Sixty minutes tries to
0:23
Speaker 1: calm nerves a little bit on Ai Trump makes maybe
0:27
Speaker 1: his most insane White House statement ever. We'll do a
0:31
Speaker 1: football update, and is the family of Ronald Goldman really
0:35
Speaker 1: finally gonna get oj Simpson's estate? We are still mired
0:41
Speaker 1: in maybe one of the dumbest major stories in modern
0:46
Speaker 1: American history. I'm referring to the Jeffrey Epstein scandal slash saga.
0:51
Speaker 1: It appears as if we are finally reaching the crescendo
0:56
Speaker 1: of this story, which I don't believe is going to
0:58
Speaker 1: provide much of a bad because I think this has
1:01
Speaker 1: been grossly overblown. To be clear, as I have said
1:06
Speaker 1: from day one, Jeffrey Epstein was guilty of the charges
1:11
Speaker 1: against him, which is why he killed himself despite having
1:14
Speaker 1: lots of money and political connections, but the level of
1:18
Speaker 1: insanity and stupidity that has surrounded this story. Every time
1:23
Speaker 1: I think it can't get any worse, it does, And
1:26
Speaker 1: in the last couple of days, we've now seen the
1:28
Speaker 1: House of Representatives in the US Senate finally vote to
1:32
Speaker 1: release whatever the hell is in the so called Epstein files.
1:37
Speaker 1: And frankly, there's so much insanity and stupidity surrounding the
1:42
Speaker 1: story that if I wanted to, I could probably spend
1:45
Speaker 1: a full three hour podcast on just that. I'm not
1:47
Speaker 1: going to, but we have a lot to get to,
1:50
Speaker 1: so let me get right into it. I think the
1:52
Speaker 1: first thing I want to talk about is Megan Kelly.
1:56
Speaker 1: And the reason why I want to talk about Megan
1:58
Speaker 1: Kelly is not because I think what she said most
2:01
Speaker 1: recently about Epstein, which created an awful lot of controversies
2:05
Speaker 1: all that significant in and of itself, but because it
2:08
Speaker 1: really goes to the much larger issue of who Megan
2:12
Speaker 1: Kelly really is and what the right wing media now
2:16
Speaker 1: has become in the era of Trump. As you probably know,
2:20
Speaker 1: I've been very critical of Megan Kelly for many years
2:22
Speaker 1: because I believe her to be a shape shifter. I
2:25
Speaker 1: believe her to be inauthentic. I believe that she changes
2:30
Speaker 1: her positions based upon what her self interest is at
2:33
Speaker 1: the time. I've noticed this for many, many years, most
2:37
Speaker 1: specifically when it came to her completely baseless and false
2:42
Speaker 1: attacks against my friend Matt Louer, the former Today Show
2:45
Speaker 1: host at NBC, which she engaged in simply as a
2:48
Speaker 1: rationalization for why it is that she got fired from
2:52
Speaker 1: NBC after doing a completely failed show there. And it's
2:56
Speaker 1: really the issue of sex abuse allegations. Megan Kelly has
3:01
Speaker 1: exposed herself most dramatically, and she did so in an
3:05
Speaker 1: almost comical way a few days ago. And what's so
3:09
Speaker 1: amazing about this story that I'm going to tell you
3:11
Speaker 1: about is I think that Megan Kelly actually essentially told
3:16
Speaker 1: the truth. But the problem is she told it in
3:20
Speaker 1: a way that was very contradictory to her past statements
3:23
Speaker 1: on the entire issue of sexual abuse. And she did
3:27
Speaker 1: so way too late, because this Epstein narrative has so
3:33
Speaker 1: exploded beyond all recognition of reality that no one can
3:38
Speaker 1: understand the context of what she was trying to say. So,
3:41
Speaker 1: when you tell the truth about a story that you
3:44
Speaker 1: have helped and the right way media has helped grow
3:48
Speaker 1: exponentially beyond whatever should have all because it's all of
3:53
Speaker 1: a sudden in your self interest to do so, because
3:57
Speaker 1: the politics of this have changed to now all of
4:00
Speaker 1: a sudden, Trump supporters are a little bit antsy about
4:03
Speaker 1: this all Epstein and think this might be causing too
4:06
Speaker 1: much harm for their cult leader. So now all of
4:09
Speaker 1: a sudden they have to look back at the facts
4:11
Speaker 1: on this. I mean, this is so insane making And
4:15
Speaker 1: what I'm referring to is a statement that Megan Kelly
4:17
Speaker 1: made on her show where all of a sudden, all
4:21
Speaker 1: of a sudden, after being one of the patron saints
4:24
Speaker 1: of sex abuse, going back to her days at Fox
4:28
Speaker 1: News Channel where she made claims about Roger Als and
4:32
Speaker 1: then she got played by Charlie Starron in a major movie,
4:35
Speaker 1: and then, of course, as I said, going after completely
4:38
Speaker 1: falsely my friend Matt Lower because it fit her agenda.
4:41
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, when Pete Hegstad needed
4:44
Speaker 1: help when it came to his sex abuse allegations which
4:47
Speaker 1: were far more serious and legitimate than those against Matt Lower,
4:52
Speaker 1: where Hestat actually had to pay a settlement, he ran
4:56
Speaker 1: to Megan Kelly, and she held his hand and helped
4:58
Speaker 1: him through barely getting through the confirmation process to be
5:02
Speaker 1: the new Secretary of War. And I attacked her for
5:05
Speaker 1: her hypocrisy on that. But here's she is all of
5:09
Speaker 1: a sudden realizing that it's in her self interest because
5:13
Speaker 1: the audience it's now changed because of the perceived politics
5:18
Speaker 1: of this whole thing, viz A v Trump that Wait
5:20
Speaker 1: a minute, you know I've been told, which is maybe
5:23
Speaker 1: the dumbest part of what she's about to say here.
5:25
Speaker 1: You're about to hear her say here because what she's
5:28
Speaker 1: claiming is not inside information. She's couching this in inside information,
5:33
Speaker 1: that she has a source that you know, what Epstein
5:36
Speaker 1: was accused of here is different than what people perceive.
5:40
Speaker 1: You didn't need inside source for that, You just needed
5:42
Speaker 1: to be able to read. But no one bothered to
5:45
Speaker 1: read or research the actual allegations in this entire situation.
5:51
Speaker 1: So Megan Kelly decides, all of a sudden it's in
5:55
Speaker 1: her self interest to say, gee, you know, maybe this
5:58
Speaker 1: isn't nearly as bad as what we thought, But in
6:00
Speaker 1: the course of doing so, completely exposes herself as a
6:05
Speaker 1: hypocrite because she sounds like she's defending child sex abuse.
6:10
Speaker 1: And here's what that sounded like.
6:12
Speaker 2: As for Epstein, I've said this before, which is a reminder.
6:15
Speaker 2: I do know somebody very very close to this case
6:17
Speaker 2: who was in a position to know virtually everything, not everything,
6:21
Speaker 2: but virtually everything. And this person has told me from
6:25
Speaker 2: the start, years and years ago that Jeffrey Epstein, in
6:28
Speaker 2: this person's view.
6:30
Speaker 1: Was not a pedophile.
6:31
Speaker 2: This is this person's view who was there for a
6:33
Speaker 2: lot of this, but that he was into the barely
6:35
Speaker 2: legal type, like he liked fifteen year old girls. And
6:40
Speaker 2: I realized this is discussing. I'm definitely not trying to
6:42
Speaker 2: make an excuse for this. I'm just giving you facts
6:45
Speaker 2: that he wasn't into like eight year olds, but he
6:49
Speaker 2: liked the very young teen types that could pass for
6:53
Speaker 2: even younger than they were, but would look legal to
6:58
Speaker 2: a passer by. And that is what I believed, and
7:01
Speaker 2: that was what I reliably was told for many years.
7:03
Speaker 2: And it wasn't until we heard from Pam Bondi that
7:07
Speaker 2: they had tens of thousands of videos of alleged forgive me.
7:12
Speaker 2: They used to call it kiddie porn, now they call
7:14
Speaker 2: it child's sexual abuse material. On his computer that for
7:18
Speaker 2: the first time, I thought, oh, no, he was an
7:21
Speaker 2: actual pedophile, I mean, only a pedophile. It gets off
7:23
Speaker 2: on young children abuse videos. She's never clarified it. I
7:28
Speaker 2: don't know whether it's true. I have to be honest,
7:30
Speaker 2: I don't really trust Pambondi's word on the Epstein anymore. Yeah, so,
7:37
Speaker 2: I don't know what's true about him. But we have
7:41
Speaker 2: yet to see anybody come forward and say I was
7:44
Speaker 2: a like a I was under ten, I was under
7:48
Speaker 2: fourteen when I first came within his purview. Look, it's
7:53
Speaker 2: you can say that's a distinction without a difference.
7:55
Speaker 1: No, it's not. I think there is a difference.
7:57
Speaker 2: There's a difference between a fifteen year old and a
8:00
Speaker 2: five year old. You know, it's just whatever now, of.
8:03
Speaker 1: Course, it is so typical of this upside down world
8:06
Speaker 1: in which we now live, where Megan Kelly decides to
8:10
Speaker 1: start telling essentially the truth about the Epstein case. And
8:14
Speaker 1: to be clear, I'm in no way, shape or form
8:16
Speaker 1: defending Epstein. This is one of the biggest problems we
8:19
Speaker 1: have when it comes to the issue of any sort
8:22
Speaker 1: of sex abuse. You're not allowed to actually say even
8:26
Speaker 1: what the allegation is if it's not as horrendous as
8:30
Speaker 1: the public perception, because then it sounds like you're defending
8:34
Speaker 1: the indefensible. And so that's what's happened with the Epstein thing.
8:39
Speaker 1: But so it's just so typical of how totally broken
8:43
Speaker 1: our entire media system is that Mega Kelly got roasted
8:47
Speaker 1: for this. Now. I think she deserves to get roasted
8:50
Speaker 1: because of the hypocrisy issue as well as this exposing
8:55
Speaker 1: her as a shape shifter, because the only reason why
8:57
Speaker 1: she's suddenly deciding to tell the basic truth about the
9:01
Speaker 1: allegations against Jeffrey Epstein is that it is now perceived
9:05
Speaker 1: that Trump is somehow in trouble on this and that
9:08
Speaker 1: we need to kind of reel this back in. But
9:11
Speaker 1: it's too late to reel this back in. I mean,
9:13
Speaker 1: this narrative is way too big to fail at this point.
9:17
Speaker 1: I mean that's maybe by number one conclusion about the
9:20
Speaker 1: last week, which is not earth shattering. We've known this
9:23
Speaker 1: for a while, but it is absolutely positively the case
9:26
Speaker 1: that regardless of what happens when these files are finally released,
9:31
Speaker 1: in whatever shape or form they are released, the narrative
9:35
Speaker 1: will survive. Even though there's not gonna be anything earth
9:38
Speaker 1: shattering or no, there's not gonna be any bombshells in there.
9:41
Speaker 1: I'm convinced to that the narrative will survive because there's
9:45
Speaker 1: too many people deeply, deeply invested in that, and if
9:49
Speaker 1: they need to, they're just gonna claim that Trump or
9:52
Speaker 1: the Trump DOJ scrubbed the files or there are too
9:55
Speaker 1: many redactions. I mean, these conspiracy theories can never die,
9:59
Speaker 1: right because inherently they involve the most powerful people in
10:03
Speaker 1: the world, that they have magic powers and therefore they
10:06
Speaker 1: can do anything you want, and they can act totally illogically,
10:10
Speaker 1: and that no theory has to have any sense behind it.
10:14
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be consistent, it doesn't matter because
10:18
Speaker 1: it's just what people want to believe for some very
10:21
Speaker 1: very strange reasons, which I'll have a theory about a
10:24
Speaker 1: little bit later on in this episode, but specifically with
10:28
Speaker 1: regard to Kelly. Look, I enjoyed Megan Kelly getting roasted,
10:32
Speaker 1: especially on this particular topic, because she is a hypocrite.
10:36
Speaker 1: She is a shape shifter, and you know, in the
10:38
Speaker 1: last episode of the podcast, I spent a lot of
10:41
Speaker 1: time on this weird alliance between Megan Kelly and Candas
10:46
Speaker 1: Owens and Tucker Carlson, specifically over issues like the Charlie
10:53
Speaker 1: Kirk assassination and Megan Kelly backing Candace Owens against Ben Shappie.
11:00
Speaker 1: He basically calling Ben Shapiro a liar for him claiming
11:04
Speaker 1: in an interview with Megan Kelly, I believe correctly the
11:07
Speaker 1: Candae Owens has at least implied that Erica Kirk was
11:11
Speaker 1: somehow involved or at least turning point, USA was behind
11:15
Speaker 1: along with somehow the help of Israel and maybe, by
11:18
Speaker 1: the way, now I guess Egypt. I don't even understand
11:20
Speaker 1: what Canda Owens do his theory is behind the assassination
11:25
Speaker 1: of Charlie Kirk. And I actually kicked myself a couple
11:30
Speaker 1: of days after the last episode of the podcast because
11:33
Speaker 1: I at one point I said, you know, I don't
11:35
Speaker 1: really understand what's motivating this alliance between Megan Kelly and
11:41
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens. And I theorized that maybe
11:46
Speaker 1: Megan Kelly believes that demographically this is in her self interest,
11:50
Speaker 1: or maybe there's something else we don't know, and I realized, Zigler,
11:54
Speaker 1: you freaking idiot. You've basically already talked about this. In fact,
11:59
Speaker 1: I even read first it in directly for another reason
12:03
Speaker 1: in the last episode of the podcast, and that is
12:05
Speaker 1: that Megan Kelly, Tucker Carlson, and Candas Owens all have
12:09
Speaker 1: something very clearly in common, and that is lawyer Brian Friedman,
12:15
Speaker 1: who I've mentioned several times in this podcast, the guy
12:18
Speaker 1: I briefly worked with in the Michael Jackson case. He's
12:21
Speaker 1: an extremely high profile lawyer here in Los Angeles. He
12:25
Speaker 1: represents Megan Kelly, he represents Tucker Carlson, and he represents
12:30
Speaker 1: Justin Baldoni in that whole Blake Lively lawsuit. And it's
12:35
Speaker 1: obvious that Candas Owens has been getting leaks from the
12:40
Speaker 1: Baldoni camp on that story. Now don't they come directly
12:44
Speaker 1: from Brian Freeman or someone you know in between Brian
12:48
Speaker 1: Freeman and Candas Owens. But there's clearly an alliance there
12:51
Speaker 1: between the Baldoni camp, which is Brian Friedman and Candas Owens.
12:56
Speaker 1: So now we have at least an explanation that they
12:59
Speaker 1: all have this connection to Brian Freeman, who I believe
13:02
Speaker 1: to be a bit of a conspiracy theorist himself. I
13:05
Speaker 1: think he's a very smart guy. He's extremely successful. He
13:08
Speaker 1: and I went sideways because he sent me off on
13:11
Speaker 1: a wild goose chase on the Michael Jackson case that
13:14
Speaker 1: was frankly a conspiracy theory that I came back to
13:19
Speaker 1: him on and said, Brian, I think he got the
13:21
Speaker 1: wrong guy. I think you have misidentified this person. And
13:25
Speaker 1: I think he was embarrassed by the fact that he
13:27
Speaker 1: had misidentified somebody in this conspiracy theory that he had
13:32
Speaker 1: me check out in the Michael Jackson case. And I
13:36
Speaker 1: think that's the worst thing he could do to an egomaniac,
13:39
Speaker 1: is to make them feel bad about themselves. And that
13:41
Speaker 1: pretty much or all deads of purposes ended the relationship.
13:45
Speaker 1: So I don't have a really great feeling about Brian Freeman,
13:47
Speaker 1: but there's no question in my mind that that is
13:49
Speaker 1: at the heart of this very bizarre and telling alliance
13:53
Speaker 1: between Megan Kelly, cantaz Owens and Tucker Carlson. And it
13:57
Speaker 1: now touches on almost every issue. Touches on the Charlie
14:01
Speaker 1: Kirk assassination, it's even touching on the assassination attempt on
14:06
Speaker 1: Donald Trump last year in Pennsylvania. Butler, Pennsylvania. I mean,
14:11
Speaker 1: in just the last few days, both Knadas and Tucker
14:13
Speaker 1: supposedly out with these new bombshell reports on the Kirk
14:16
Speaker 1: assassination of the attempt on Trump's life, none of which
14:20
Speaker 1: is based on any reality. There's no theory that makes
14:23
Speaker 1: any goddamn since and of course, the biggest absurdity of
14:27
Speaker 1: the entire subject is Donald Trump is president of the
14:31
Speaker 1: United States. The Trump DOJ is headed by Cashpittal, a
14:36
Speaker 1: very good friend of Charlie Kirk, and obviously the Trump
14:40
Speaker 1: administration should be trusted to properly investigate the assassination attempt
14:46
Speaker 1: on Donald Trump. I mean, if Harris had won, I
14:51
Speaker 1: could at least understand. Okay, well, the people in charge
14:55
Speaker 1: the DOJ, they don't have a great self interest when
14:59
Speaker 1: it comes to get into the bottom of a potential
15:02
Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk conspiracy or a conspiracy to assassinate Donald Trump.
15:07
Speaker 1: But that's not the case. Trump won. So therefore you're
15:11
Speaker 1: burden of proof in trying to claim some sort of
15:15
Speaker 1: massive conspiracy or that we're not being told. The truth
15:19
Speaker 1: about either of these situations is extremely high right off
15:22
Speaker 1: the top, And of course it's inherently contradictory because these
15:26
Speaker 1: people are allegedly Trump facts not if this makes any
15:29
Speaker 1: goddamn sense anyway. So, and then there's the issue of
15:34
Speaker 1: anti Semitism and whether Tucker Carlson interviewing Nick Flentays has
15:41
Speaker 1: outed him as an anti semi which people have suspected.
15:45
Speaker 1: And then Donald Trump gets asked about the interview between
15:48
Speaker 1: Tucker and Flents, and Trump backs Tucker and claims he
15:52
Speaker 1: doesn't know who flin Days is, which is just another
15:56
Speaker 1: absurdity in all this. And then we go back to
15:59
Speaker 1: the Epstein because Trump is now in the perception of
16:03
Speaker 1: the media, and certainly the left has completely flipped on
16:07
Speaker 1: whether or not the Epstein files should be released. And
16:10
Speaker 1: the left's version of this is, aha, he's guilty. He
16:16
Speaker 1: won't allow the Epstein files to be released. The only
16:20
Speaker 1: explanation for why Trump is stonewalling here is that he
16:25
Speaker 1: is implicated. We knew it. That's the left's view. Now.
16:30
Speaker 1: In my view, there's another way I look at this,
16:33
Speaker 1: which is that Trump having been accused falsely in the
16:38
Speaker 1: past in this realm, and also someone who knows Epstein
16:42
Speaker 1: and knows Maxwell, Glenn Maxwell, the person's in federal prison
16:46
Speaker 1: right now for allegedly enabling Epstein's crimes, even though I
16:51
Speaker 1: believe her trial is a complete sham during COVID, But
16:56
Speaker 1: in my view, it is certainly possible that Trump understands
17:00
Speaker 1: that within these files there's a bunch of garbage, because
17:03
Speaker 1: that's what grand dury investigations are. They throw everything they
17:08
Speaker 1: possibly can against the wall they can, they try to
17:11
Speaker 1: see what can stick, and oftentimes there's crap in there,
17:17
Speaker 1: there's stuff that doesn't make any sense, that it's not
17:21
Speaker 1: based in reality, where people, if you misinterpret it, can
17:25
Speaker 1: be falsely accused. And that Trump might be standing on principle,
17:30
Speaker 1: and maybe it's possible that there's stuff in him about
17:32
Speaker 1: him in there that would be misperceived. They are people
17:35
Speaker 1: close to him that would be misperceived. So from a
17:37
Speaker 1: principal standpoint, I realized it's weird to claim that Trump
17:40
Speaker 1: is standing on some sort of principle, But in this case,
17:42
Speaker 1: the principle might be it is self interest. That's always
17:46
Speaker 1: made sense to me that he would not want these
17:49
Speaker 1: things released because he understands how the media obsession on
17:53
Speaker 1: this story is insatiable. Everything is radioactive now, everything is
17:58
Speaker 1: nuclear charged, and so therefore he understands the dangers of this. Well,
18:03
Speaker 1: now he's flipped and the reason why Trump is perceived
18:07
Speaker 1: as having flipped is that it's obvious that they were
18:10
Speaker 1: going to lose the vote. I mean, I get that
18:13
Speaker 1: Trump decided, Okay, I'm not going to win this vote.
18:16
Speaker 1: So now I got to be on the right side.
18:17
Speaker 1: So I'm going to say, screw it. You know, what,
18:20
Speaker 1: to hell with innocent people getting destroyed and all this.
18:24
Speaker 1: I can't take this anymore. Uncle, go ahead and release
18:27
Speaker 1: the goddamn things. And in my opinion, this is going
18:30
Speaker 1: to cause all sorts of problems. We've already seen this
18:33
Speaker 1: with the emails that got released, not from the Epstein files,
18:37
Speaker 1: but from the Epstein estate that we focused quite a
18:40
Speaker 1: bit on in the last episode of the podcast. The
18:43
Speaker 1: former president of Harvard, Larry Summers, who I've always felt
18:46
Speaker 1: was a pretty decent guy, a smart guy for a liberal,
18:50
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, as an economist goes. I mean,
18:53
Speaker 1: there are not too many good liberal economists. But I've
18:55
Speaker 1: always thought he was okay. And you know, he was
18:58
Speaker 1: involved in some embarrassing emails with Epstein, clearly had a
19:02
Speaker 1: very close relationship with him. Nothing remotely criminal, nothing remotely criminal.
19:08
Speaker 1: But the story is already so radioactive that he has
19:11
Speaker 1: announced that he is essentially stepping away from public life.
19:15
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren is demanding that Harvard, where he used to
19:19
Speaker 1: be president and he's still a professor, essentially fire him.
19:23
Speaker 1: Fire him what we fire him for what? Which is
19:29
Speaker 1: completely absurd when you consider the fact that we now
19:31
Speaker 1: know from these communications that there's a Democratic member of
19:36
Speaker 1: Congress that was texting with Epstein literally as they were
19:41
Speaker 1: questioning Michael Cohen in a congressional hearing. Should they be
19:46
Speaker 1: forced to resign from office? I mean, I mean, Summers
19:49
Speaker 1: is just a professor at Arvard where he used to
19:52
Speaker 1: be president. But from a media perspective, that's how radioactive
19:56
Speaker 1: this story. Obviously, when it comes to my perception of
20:01
Speaker 1: this story, a lot of this is clouded by my
20:03
Speaker 1: PTSD from the Penn State Joe Paternal Jerry Sandusky case,
20:07
Speaker 1: where so much of the exact same types of things happened,
20:11
Speaker 1: where people were collateral damage that had nothing to do
20:15
Speaker 1: with this, even though the whole story was a scam
20:18
Speaker 1: to begin with, But it becomes so large that you
20:21
Speaker 1: end up having people like Graham Spaniard every hand of
20:24
Speaker 1: goddamn conversation with any of the key people going to
20:28
Speaker 1: prison as a former president the Penn State. It's that's what.
20:32
Speaker 1: That's the danger of a story getting so large and
20:35
Speaker 1: so toxic and so radioactive injustice is gonna happen. And
20:41
Speaker 1: you know, speaking of these emails that were released from
20:45
Speaker 1: the Epstein estate kind of as an appetizer supposedly for
20:50
Speaker 1: the Epstein files to be released. So this email between
20:55
Speaker 1: Michael Wolf and the reporter, the author, who I've never
20:59
Speaker 1: had any trust for it has the word redacted. And
21:05
Speaker 1: the Democrats on the House Oversight Committee released the email
21:10
Speaker 1: with the word victim over top of it in capital letters.
21:16
Speaker 1: And at the time of last week's podcast, I didn't
21:20
Speaker 1: know who the victim was, and I questioned, Okay, how
21:23
Speaker 1: do we even know who this person is? And without
21:25
Speaker 1: their identity, how can we possibly understand the context of
21:28
Speaker 1: these emails that were being used as Aha? See, you
21:33
Speaker 1: know this victim supposedly spent lots of time with Donald Trump.
21:38
Speaker 1: We've got the smoking gun, because what else would a
21:41
Speaker 1: Epstein victim be doing spending lots of time with Donald
21:44
Speaker 1: Trump if not being abused by Donald Trump. That's the
21:48
Speaker 1: Democrats implication or their alleged logic here. Well, soon after
21:53
Speaker 1: I taped the podcast, the Republicans on the House oversyche
21:56
Speaker 1: Committee said, yeah, that person who will redacted their name
22:01
Speaker 1: was redacted for no legal reason whatsoever. Was Virginia Geoffrey,
22:07
Speaker 1: who is dead because she killed herself not long after
22:10
Speaker 1: faking a bus accident. She's got a book out that
22:14
Speaker 1: came out well after she committed suicide. And the reason
22:18
Speaker 1: why that's incredibly significant is twofold number one. They won't
22:23
Speaker 1: tell you this, even the Republicans in the House are
22:25
Speaker 1: afraid to tell you this. But she's clearly not credible.
22:29
Speaker 1: She has all sorts of problems with her credibility, which
22:33
Speaker 1: we have outlined time and time again, including making a
22:36
Speaker 1: completely totally false allegation against Alan Dershowitz that she was
22:41
Speaker 1: forced legally to retract. And I also believe that someone
22:45
Speaker 1: who kills themselves just before releasing a book with no
22:49
Speaker 1: names and all sorts of dubious allegations is inherently suspect.
22:55
Speaker 1: But that's not the most important reason why her name
22:58
Speaker 1: discredits the entire purpose of the Democrats releasing the email.
23:03
Speaker 1: Her name discredits it because in the book she's on
23:07
Speaker 1: record praising Donald Trump. So and she's dead, so she
23:13
Speaker 1: cannot now even though Epstein victims tend to be magic
23:17
Speaker 1: a lot like Sandusky victims, she cannot now reverse that statement.
23:22
Speaker 1: She so she and this is a woman who basically
23:25
Speaker 1: claimed every man she ever met abused her except Donald Trump.
23:30
Speaker 1: So if you use the name, I've always said this
23:34
Speaker 1: is this is one of my major complaints of a
23:37
Speaker 1: million in the Penn State paternal Sandusky case. The anonymity
23:41
Speaker 1: of the accusers made it impossible for the public to
23:46
Speaker 1: understand the story. And that's what Democrats tried to do here.
23:50
Speaker 1: They tried to hide that this quote unquote victim. Let's
23:55
Speaker 1: pretend she is a victim of Jeffrey Epstein. Even if
23:59
Speaker 1: that's the case, it doesn't matter because she's on records
24:03
Speaker 1: praising Trump and she has no hesitation of accusing everybody
24:08
Speaker 1: of having sexually abused her. So those emails were complete
24:13
Speaker 1: and total bullshit. They with regard to Trump at the
24:16
Speaker 1: very least, and then maybe even dumber than this, the
24:20
Speaker 1: Democrats put out an email that claimed, or at least
24:27
Speaker 1: they claimed, was an indication that Jeffrey Epstein had spent
24:32
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving with Donald Trump or vice versa in twenty seventeen
24:38
Speaker 1: when Trump was president. And this was all based upon
24:41
Speaker 1: a very vague email from Epstein. But this just drives
24:46
Speaker 1: me crazy. Use your goddamn brains. He's the president of
24:51
Speaker 1: the United States in twenty seventeen. We know where he
24:54
Speaker 1: is basically at all times. And the Democrats, let's put
25:00
Speaker 1: out this Thanksgiving email, which they eventually deleted because I
25:05
Speaker 1: think somebody finally realized, Oops, wait a minute. We know
25:09
Speaker 1: that there's plenty of evidence that Trump did not spend
25:13
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving in twenty seventy with Jeffrey Epstein. But if it
25:16
Speaker 1: would only take just basic probably a Google search, to understand,
25:21
Speaker 1: not to mention basic logic, that this was ridiculous on
25:25
Speaker 1: its face, and so to me, the Democrats are already
25:31
Speaker 1: stepping in it on this. I think it's possible they
25:34
Speaker 1: may step in it further depending on how what is
25:37
Speaker 1: in these files gets perceived. And I fully understand, and
25:41
Speaker 1: I've already stated that Democrats have a couple things very
25:44
Speaker 1: much on their side, Number one of which is that
25:47
Speaker 1: the media is as invested as everybody else is in
25:50
Speaker 1: there being some sort of vindication of their narrative in
25:55
Speaker 1: these so called Epstein files. But frankly, I am more
25:58
Speaker 1: and more confident as I have been throughout this saga
26:02
Speaker 1: that there's not going to be any there there. There's
26:05
Speaker 1: not going to be any evidence of any sort of
26:07
Speaker 1: crimes by anybody really other than Epstein. Now, maybe there'll
26:11
Speaker 1: be some embarrassing stuff, there might be some stuff that
26:14
Speaker 1: requires further investigation or questioning, but I don't believe that
26:19
Speaker 1: anybody else is going to be proven to have committed
26:23
Speaker 1: crimes here, because everything we've learned so far is one
26:28
Speaker 1: hundred percent consistent with my view of this story. The
26:32
Speaker 1: use of Geoffrey to try to create a false narrative,
26:36
Speaker 1: Democrats jumping on this bullshit Thanksgiving story, and then we
26:40
Speaker 1: get to the issue of the former Prince Andrew, who
26:44
Speaker 1: I believe was completely railroaded in this whole thing. And
26:47
Speaker 1: I've gone through several times in the past why I
26:50
Speaker 1: am more and more confident, almost on a daily basis
26:54
Speaker 1: that the former Prince Andrew, the brother of now King Charles,
26:59
Speaker 1: who I believe had it out for his little brother
27:03
Speaker 1: because he was his mom's favorite, Queen Elizabeth, and the
27:06
Speaker 1: whole complicated series of circumstances that caused the royal family
27:11
Speaker 1: to act a lot like Penn State did in the
27:13
Speaker 1: Jerry Sandusky saga and plead guilty for things that never
27:17
Speaker 1: actually happened. To me, what we've now learned in the
27:22
Speaker 1: most recent dump of these documents from the Epstein estate
27:26
Speaker 1: one thousand percent backs up my view that Prince Andrew
27:31
Speaker 1: was railroaded. And it's absolutely astonishing, even for someone as
27:35
Speaker 1: cynical as I am about the modern news media and
27:40
Speaker 1: why they're so broken, and why this podcast is called
27:42
Speaker 1: the Death of Journalism. Even I am a bit stunned
27:47
Speaker 1: that we can simultaneously when we want to claim that
27:52
Speaker 1: everything that Epstein says in this cash of emails from
27:57
Speaker 1: his estate is credible, believable, and it is important for
28:03
Speaker 1: the historical record what really happened here. When it fits
28:06
Speaker 1: our agenda, Epstein is a credible narrator. But when it
28:11
Speaker 1: doesn't fit what we want to believe, we just ignore it.
28:16
Speaker 1: And there is an exchange. There's a couple of exchanges
28:19
Speaker 1: that have been released between Epstein and then Prince Andrew
28:25
Speaker 1: regarding the allegation from Virginia Gioffre that to me, one
28:32
Speaker 1: thousand percent, as much as any email possibly could exonerates
28:38
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew. This is how that exchange was reported in
28:43
Speaker 1: Time magazine Epstein forwarded quote unquote, the Duke Prince Andrew
28:50
Speaker 1: an email in March of twenty eleven about an upcoming
28:54
Speaker 1: Daily Mail story about Geoffrey's allegations against Andrew. The Duke
29:01
Speaker 1: wrote back, quote what I don't know any of this?
29:07
Speaker 1: How are you responding? Epstein writes back, just got it
29:12
Speaker 1: two minutes ago. I've asked lawyers to send a letter.
29:17
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how to respond. The only person she
29:21
Speaker 1: didn't have sex with was Elvis. The Duke replies, please
29:28
Speaker 1: make sure that every statement or legal letter states clearly
29:32
Speaker 1: that I am not capital letters involved, and that I
29:36
Speaker 1: knew and know nothing capital letters about any of these allegations.
29:42
Speaker 1: I can't take any more of this on my end.
29:46
Speaker 1: Two days later, Epstein sends the Duke an email, you okay,
29:51
Speaker 1: these stories are complete and utter fantasy. I don't know
29:57
Speaker 1: and have never met Al Gore. Clinton was never on
30:01
Speaker 1: the island. The telephone book is not mine. It was
30:05
Speaker 1: stolen by my houseman that is currently in prison for
30:08
Speaker 1: doing so. Unquote. The Duke also wrote to Glainne Maxwell,
30:14
Speaker 1: Webstein's associate, who was convicted of sex trafficking, in an
30:18
Speaker 1: email that she forwarded to Epstein, quote, Hey there, that's
30:23
Speaker 1: what's all this. I don't know anything about this exclamation
30:28
Speaker 1: point you must say, so please, this has nothing capital
30:33
Speaker 1: letters to do with me. I can't take any more
30:36
Speaker 1: of this. Unquote that's from then Prince Andrew to Glainne Maxwell. Now, folks, look,
30:44
Speaker 1: I realize people lie all the time, and people lie
30:47
Speaker 1: sometimes in personal emails, but this is stuff that was
30:53
Speaker 1: never expected to be made public. This is the immediate
30:58
Speaker 1: reaction to the nolage that there's this allegation two people
31:03
Speaker 1: very very close to him, Epstein and Gleamn Maxwell. So
31:09
Speaker 1: at the very least, you're getting a response that deserves
31:14
Speaker 1: to be taken seriously, because the natural inclination, if there
31:19
Speaker 1: was any guilt at all at all, would be, oh fuck,
31:24
Speaker 1: what do we do about this? That would be the
31:27
Speaker 1: reaction of a guilty person. The reaction of an innocent
31:31
Speaker 1: person is I have no idea what the hell you're
31:33
Speaker 1: talking about, And to be very concerned and emphatically concerned. Again,
31:40
Speaker 1: these are two people he's close to and he trusts
31:44
Speaker 1: in a private communication. This is almost like having a
31:48
Speaker 1: wire tap and getting the authentic reaction, knee jerk reaction
31:54
Speaker 1: to an allegation which oftentimes can tell you an awful
31:58
Speaker 1: lot about whether or not somebody guilty. To me, these emails,
32:02
Speaker 1: while they don't one thousand percent prove innocence because they
32:06
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly do that, are one thousand percent consistent with innocent.
32:11
Speaker 1: And when you consider that there's no evidence or logic
32:15
Speaker 1: behind any of the allegations against Andrew, and that the
32:19
Speaker 1: accuser of Virginia Jeoffrey has all sorts of massive credibility problems.
32:24
Speaker 1: To me, this sinch is it? And yet, with the
32:27
Speaker 1: exception of the story in Time magazine that I just
32:30
Speaker 1: quoted from you, essentially there's been a blackout on this.
32:34
Speaker 1: There's been a blackout on this element of this cash
32:39
Speaker 1: of emails from the Epstein estate because it doesn't fit
32:42
Speaker 1: with anyone's agenda. And poor Andrew is not even a
32:46
Speaker 1: prince anymore, has that his nuts completely cut off. He
32:49
Speaker 1: can't respond. It's probably part of his deal to keep
32:52
Speaker 1: a roof over his head that he's going to keep
32:54
Speaker 1: his mouth shut. And the Royal family, much like Penn
32:57
Speaker 1: State in the Sandusky case, has absolutely possible, latively no
33:01
Speaker 1: incentive whatsoever to fight back and go, hey, wait a minute,
33:05
Speaker 1: doesn't this show our guy was innocent because they've already
33:09
Speaker 1: pled guilty on his behalf. And so it's just so
33:14
Speaker 1: unbelievably obvious what really did and did not happen here.
33:18
Speaker 1: And the media is too broken to either understand or
33:22
Speaker 1: report in a significant way any of this. And so
33:27
Speaker 1: we now have a situation where I believe we're going
33:30
Speaker 1: to have these Epstein files released. We're going to go
33:33
Speaker 1: through days and days of breathless media coverage where the
33:38
Speaker 1: emails that they don't like, like the ones I just
33:41
Speaker 1: reference between Epstein and Andrew, are going to be ignored
33:44
Speaker 1: that information, you know, that didn't happen. You know, we're
33:46
Speaker 1: not going to tell the public about that because people
33:49
Speaker 1: might get ideas on their own for what really transpired here,
33:52
Speaker 1: which is not consistent with our narrative, and it'll expose
33:55
Speaker 1: us as having railroad and an innocent person. We don't
33:59
Speaker 1: want that. I'll emphasize whatever they can, you know, making
34:03
Speaker 1: mountains out of molehills, out of stuff that either was
34:07
Speaker 1: not proven or is misconstrued or it doesn't have proper context.
34:11
Speaker 1: I mean, they're going to see a lot of that.
34:14
Speaker 1: And there's gonna be people like Larry Summers that are
34:17
Speaker 1: having their lives disrupted and may be destroyed, or were
34:20
Speaker 1: things that never happened. It's just gonna be ugly. It's
34:23
Speaker 1: going to be terrible, And in my frustration over this story,
34:28
Speaker 1: I've been very, very confused. I've been confused by the
34:32
Speaker 1: right because of their obsession with this story from the beginning,
34:35
Speaker 1: because of the fact that it was always obvious that
34:37
Speaker 1: Epstein and Trump had a very close relationship, and that
34:41
Speaker 1: I didn't get why Maga World would be playing with
34:44
Speaker 1: fire like this. It didn't make any sense to me.
34:47
Speaker 1: But I've also been confused more recently by the left
34:51
Speaker 1: buying into the idea that this is finally going to
34:54
Speaker 1: be the thing that brings down Trump, and it has
34:58
Speaker 1: a very reminiscent feel of Russia Gate two point zero.
35:01
Speaker 1: To me. I'm not the only person that has said that,
35:03
Speaker 1: but there have been a few others that have made
35:06
Speaker 1: the same comparison, and so I wanted to find out
35:10
Speaker 1: a little bit more about what the left is really
35:12
Speaker 1: thinking here. And the person I probably trust in that
35:16
Speaker 1: realm more than anybody else is a guy by the
35:18
Speaker 1: name of David Schuster, who's in my mind, a cable
35:22
Speaker 1: news legend because he's been a news anchor at literally
35:25
Speaker 1: every single cable news network that there is. He's now
35:28
Speaker 1: a liberal commentator in the Young Turks Network. He and
35:32
Speaker 1: I have quite a history together because before we ever
35:36
Speaker 1: actually met, we did two very high profile MSNBC. I
35:40
Speaker 1: wouldn't even call them interviews. They were more like boxing
35:43
Speaker 1: matches back in my days. Following my Newsmaking interview with
35:48
Speaker 1: Sarah Palin after the two thousand and eight presidential election,
35:52
Speaker 1: he went after me hard. I went after him hard.
35:55
Speaker 1: There was no real viral nature of interviews back then,
36:00
Speaker 1: but if there had been something that could truly go viral,
36:03
Speaker 1: this would be it. And they were very memorable, and
36:07
Speaker 1: I never would have thought that many years later David
36:10
Speaker 1: Schuster and I would become friends, but we have because
36:12
Speaker 1: we have a mutual respect. David, much to his credit,
36:16
Speaker 1: has essentially acknowledged that he might not have been particularly
36:20
Speaker 1: fair to me at the time. We've done several interviews
36:23
Speaker 1: on this podcast and others, and I very much respect
36:27
Speaker 1: his honesty and his intellect, and so I asked him
36:31
Speaker 1: to come on to explain the left wing position on
36:35
Speaker 1: the issue of the Epstein files, and he agreed to
36:39
Speaker 1: do so. Now, because of scheduling. We did this a
36:41
Speaker 1: few days ago, but I don't think there's really anything
36:44
Speaker 1: in here that is particularly dated. We pretty much presumed
36:49
Speaker 1: that the House and the Senate we're going to vote
36:52
Speaker 1: to eventually release the Epstein files, which they have, but
36:56
Speaker 1: that occurred a few days after this interview was conducted
37:00
Speaker 1: to hear some of the things that have already referenced
37:02
Speaker 1: in this episode that we talk about in this interview.
37:06
Speaker 1: So that's the reason for the redundancy. But this is
37:10
Speaker 1: my interview with David Schuster trying to understand the left's
37:15
Speaker 1: perspective and expectations when it comes to what they hope
37:19
Speaker 1: to accomplish with the release of the Epstein files. David Schuster,
37:25
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Death of Journalism podcast. John.
37:28
Speaker 3: It is always a pleasure to be with you. How
37:30
Speaker 3: are you.
37:31
Speaker 1: I'm doing well. Always great to talk to you as well,
37:34
Speaker 1: especially considering our remarkable history together. We seem to talk
37:37
Speaker 1: on this podcast about once a year, and I thought
37:40
Speaker 1: it would bring be a particularly appropriate moment because of
37:44
Speaker 1: the Jeffrey Epstein story exploding back into the news. And
37:47
Speaker 1: I've watched your tweets for a long time and I'm
37:51
Speaker 1: just very, very confused not just by you, but by
37:54
Speaker 1: a lot of people on the left and their view
37:57
Speaker 1: of this story and where they think it's going. And
38:01
Speaker 1: you know me very well, I'm basically an anti Trump conservative,
38:06
Speaker 1: so I have no political dog in this hunt when
38:08
Speaker 1: it comes to Trump and Epstein. But I'm honestly very
38:11
Speaker 1: confused by how it is that many of you guys
38:14
Speaker 1: on the left have come to what seems to be,
38:18
Speaker 1: in my view, an erroneous conclusion about what this story
38:21
Speaker 1: was really all about. So let me start by just
38:23
Speaker 1: simply asking you, in very broad terms, what is David
38:27
Speaker 1: Schuster's view currently And we're taping this before the Epstein
38:31
Speaker 1: files whatever they are, have actually been publicly released in
38:35
Speaker 1: their totality, But what is your current belief about what
38:39
Speaker 1: likely transpired in the entire Epstein saga.
38:42
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, let me state that I am
38:44
Speaker 4: happy to try and help you, and I'm always a
38:47
Speaker 4: joy to be on with you to try to educate
38:49
Speaker 4: you on positions that you're confused about, because you're not
38:52
Speaker 4: confused about a lot of stuff. So let me start
38:54
Speaker 4: big picture, big picture, and that is I'm one of
38:56
Speaker 4: these people who feels like who let the ships fall?
39:01
Speaker 4: Where they may if Bill Clinton is in the Epstein files,
39:03
Speaker 4: if Bill Richardson, if there's a whole host of Democrats,
39:06
Speaker 4: whole host report, whatever it is, I want it all out.
39:10
Speaker 3: And I believe.
39:11
Speaker 4: Whoever was messing around with Jeffrey Epstein, who was friends
39:14
Speaker 4: with him, who was either enabling or looking the other
39:16
Speaker 4: way at his sex trafficking, I believe that at the
39:19
Speaker 4: very least it may not be a crime, but they
39:21
Speaker 4: should be publicly shamed and shamed out of polite society,
39:25
Speaker 4: and they should pay a price. And some people around
39:27
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein have paid that price, whether it's they've been
39:30
Speaker 4: removed from boards, whatever it is. So that's where I start,
39:34
Speaker 4: is that, to me, Jeffrey Epstein was engaged in sex trafficking.
39:38
Speaker 4: He was using Glaine Maxwell's girlfriend associate whatever it is,
39:42
Speaker 4: to procure girls from like private New York City high
39:46
Speaker 4: schools to come to his mansions and provide him with
39:50
Speaker 4: sexual massages and et cetera, et cetera. Where I feel
39:54
Speaker 4: like Donald Trump is part of this is Donald Trump
39:58
Speaker 4: and Jeffre Epstein. By the accounts of p people who
40:00
Speaker 4: knew them both in the nineties and early two thousand,
40:03
Speaker 4: they were each other's best friend for at least a decade.
40:06
Speaker 4: They shared everything. They shared airplanes, they shared business deals,
40:10
Speaker 4: their allegations, according to Michael Woolf, who interview Repstein, repeatedly
40:14
Speaker 4: that they shared women and girls. And so it's always
40:18
Speaker 4: sort of struck me that for years, when there was
40:22
Speaker 4: this theory on the right in conservative circles and oh,
40:25
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein convicted pedophile, he was running a pedophilia ring
40:29
Speaker 4: that was enabling Democrats and high profile Democrats to trafficking
40:34
Speaker 4: young women. I always thought, well, that's you know, I think
40:37
Speaker 4: he was enabling all sorts of people to have access
40:39
Speaker 4: to young women. But it always struck me as interesting
40:41
Speaker 4: that Maga world's, particularly in the run up to this
40:44
Speaker 4: past election a year ago, Cash Betel Pambondi, Dan Bongino,
40:49
Speaker 4: when we get in office, we're going to release all
40:50
Speaker 4: the Epstein files. Donald Trump was sort of sheepish about it,
40:53
Speaker 4: but okay, they basically said, if Donald Trump wins.
40:57
Speaker 3: This is all going to be released.
40:59
Speaker 4: And they with the lips of mega people who are thinking, oh,
41:02
Speaker 4: we're finally gonna get this information about the democratic pedophilia ring.
41:06
Speaker 3: Everybody was so worked.
41:08
Speaker 4: Up and then nothing they don't release anything, and suddenly
41:12
Speaker 4: it's like, well, wait a second, and then Pambody says, oh, well,
41:14
Speaker 4: there's there's nothing there. There are no more charges, there's
41:16
Speaker 4: no client list, And in my view, it's sort of like,
41:20
Speaker 4: wait a second. It was the maga world that created
41:23
Speaker 4: this uproar over Jeffrey Epstein, and so in some ways, Okay,
41:27
Speaker 4: Donald Trump is being hoisted on his own petard because
41:30
Speaker 4: of what he and his supporters had been saying for
41:32
Speaker 4: so many years.
41:34
Speaker 1: All Right, this is going to be fascinating. I feel
41:36
Speaker 1: like this is going to be a fascinating conversation because
41:38
Speaker 1: I totally get everything that you just said. It's my opinion, David,
41:43
Speaker 1: that you've misinterpreted some things, and so I don't know
41:49
Speaker 1: whether I want to start attacking your theory until I
41:52
Speaker 1: fully understand your theory.
41:55
Speaker 4: Well, maybe I should offer a little bit more about
41:57
Speaker 4: my view of Donald Trump, particularly sort of spoke broadly
42:00
Speaker 4: about Epstein and what he was doing. My view of
42:03
Speaker 4: Donald Trump is that Donald Trump has been lying repeatedly
42:08
Speaker 4: for the last several years about his friendship with Epstein,
42:11
Speaker 4: about what he knew about Jeffrey Epstein. I think had
42:14
Speaker 4: certainly come out that you know in these emails that
42:16
Speaker 4: came out from the Epstein state that Donald Trump was
42:18
Speaker 4: aware of what Jeffrey Epstein was doing. Of course he
42:20
Speaker 4: was aware. They were best friends. What has struck me
42:23
Speaker 4: is particularly interesting over the past year is that. And
42:27
Speaker 4: I keep going back to Michael Wolfe, who wrote several
42:29
Speaker 4: books about Donald Trump, and he became pretty close with
42:33
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein in terms of reporter to a source, and
42:36
Speaker 4: he spent a lot of time talking to Jeffrey Epstein.
42:39
Speaker 4: And I was struck when a year ago Michael Wolfe
42:42
Speaker 4: said on several different platforms publicly that I think it
42:45
Speaker 4: was in twenty sixteen, ewither right before Donald Trump was
42:47
Speaker 4: elected or right after. He was at Jeffrey Epstein's mansion
42:51
Speaker 4: talking to him about Trump and this book that Wolfe
42:54
Speaker 4: was writing, and Epstein said, I've got something to show you,
42:57
Speaker 4: and Epstein pulls a couple of thot out of his safe,
43:02
Speaker 4: shows it to Michael wolf and Michael Wolfe says, I
43:06
Speaker 4: saw at least three photographs of Donald Trump with half
43:10
Speaker 4: naked what looked to be teenage girls sitting on his lap.
43:15
Speaker 4: In one photo, they were pointing at a stain on
43:18
Speaker 4: his pants. And laughing. So to me, that's more than
43:23
Speaker 4: just Donald Trump was aware of what Jeffrey Epstein was doing.
43:25
Speaker 4: Donald Trump was perhaps taking advantage of the same girls
43:30
Speaker 4: that Jeffrey Epstein had in his sort of okay, So
43:33
Speaker 4: to me, that was sort of you know, and I thought, okay, well,
43:37
Speaker 4: is Michael Wolfe to be believed? You know, I had
43:39
Speaker 4: no reason to sort of disbelieve Michael wolf and so
43:42
Speaker 4: to me, but what's been so fascinating is Michael wolf
43:46
Speaker 4: is almost like kryptonite to the mainstream media, Like nobody
43:48
Speaker 4: will even mention Michael Wolfe except maybe criticize his role
43:52
Speaker 4: of how he was helping, you know, Jeffrey Epstein. But
43:54
Speaker 4: I'm thinking, why why didn't everybody jump on this a
43:57
Speaker 4: year ago when Michael wolf was saying, Hey, I saw
44:00
Speaker 4: all these photographs and they were in a safe and
44:02
Speaker 4: it was the safe that the FBI got when they
44:05
Speaker 4: came in and swept into to Epstein's mansion.
44:08
Speaker 3: I thought, that's a big deal.
44:10
Speaker 1: All right, There's about twelve things I want to address
44:13
Speaker 1: what you've said, But why don't I start at the end,
44:15
Speaker 1: Because you mentioned Michael Wolfe and this most recent email dump,
44:20
Speaker 1: which began with these three emails and then exploded with
44:24
Speaker 1: many more and from the Epstein estate. And I don't
44:29
Speaker 1: believe that Michael Wolfe is a credible narrator, and I
44:34
Speaker 1: think that he has massive problems in the history of
44:37
Speaker 1: his journalism, especially with regard to Trump. And let me
44:42
Speaker 1: ask you, very specifically, as a journalist yourself, did it
44:45
Speaker 1: not bother you greatly? That a large part of your
44:49
Speaker 1: theory appears to be based upon the word of Michael Wolfe,
44:53
Speaker 1: a guy who we now have an email of him
44:57
Speaker 1: essentially advising Jeffrey Epps on how to manipulate Donald Trump?
45:02
Speaker 1: Did that not bother you?
45:03
Speaker 4: David Well his coaching advising Jeffrey Epstein to me, Yeah,
45:07
Speaker 4: that crosses a line, and that's inappropriate, but that but
45:10
Speaker 4: two things can be true at the same time. I
45:12
Speaker 4: can say that, you know, I didn't, I don't like
45:14
Speaker 4: the idea that Michael Wolfe was advising Jeffrey Epstein. But
45:17
Speaker 4: I can also still believe that when Michael Wolfe says,
45:20
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein showed me pictures of Donald Trump with these
45:23
Speaker 4: half naked teenage girls on his lap and those came
45:26
Speaker 4: out of a safe that can also be true. And
45:29
Speaker 4: to me, that's actually even more significant.
45:31
Speaker 3: I Mean, if you look at every major story.
45:35
Speaker 4: Of the last thirty years, you can always find somebody
45:38
Speaker 4: who sort of claims to be a journalist, who crosses
45:40
Speaker 4: the line, who behaves inappropriately, who who advises or takes
45:44
Speaker 4: a side. I mean, he goes on and on and on,
45:47
Speaker 4: and so that doesn't bother me so much. And I'm
45:49
Speaker 4: not as concerned about what Michael Wolfe's role was in this.
45:52
Speaker 4: I'm more concerned about Okay, you're.
45:55
Speaker 1: Taking his word, but David, currently you're taking his word
45:58
Speaker 1: on what you considered to be a key piece of
46:01
Speaker 1: evidence when it comes to connecting Donald Trump to Jeffrey
46:04
Speaker 1: Epstein's crimes. These alleged photographs, which by the way, even
46:08
Speaker 1: the way you describe them sound to me like Trump
46:10
Speaker 1: is at the Miss Universe pageant, is not new information.
46:14
Speaker 1: I mean, depending on Michael wolf is known to exaggerate, Okay,
46:17
Speaker 1: so we're relying on on his testimony about photographs that
46:23
Speaker 1: are not in evidence that would not be allowed in court.
46:27
Speaker 3: And what would be allowed is the photographs.
46:29
Speaker 4: So what, okay, what gets me is if there's really,
46:32
Speaker 4: if there's really an innocent explanation for the photographs for
46:35
Speaker 4: everything else. What is it that's keeping Donald Trump from
46:39
Speaker 4: just releasing everything. He's got that power, he's got that authority.
46:42
Speaker 4: And that's where I sort of feel like, I mean,
46:44
Speaker 4: between the lies between SI, we're going to release it
46:46
Speaker 4: and they're not releasing it not, I mean to me
46:49
Speaker 4: that that's that's that's a problem.
46:50
Speaker 1: I have an explanation for that part. And I want
46:53
Speaker 1: to say that because I think we're gonna get ahead
46:55
Speaker 1: of ourselves, because I still want to get to the
46:58
Speaker 1: nuts and bolts of the story. Because I think that
47:00
Speaker 1: what has happened not just with you. You're just the
47:03
Speaker 1: person that's nice enough to come on and talk with
47:05
Speaker 1: me about this, and you know, we have a prior
47:07
Speaker 1: relationship and understanding and respect for each other. So that's
47:10
Speaker 1: why this interview is happening. But you do kind of
47:12
Speaker 1: represent a large group of people on the left online
47:15
Speaker 1: who have a very similar view of this story. And
47:17
Speaker 1: what I think in general has happened, David, is that
47:20
Speaker 1: there's a misunderstanding of the epicenter of the story and
47:25
Speaker 1: it has created, like on steroids or exponentially bad interpretations
47:33
Speaker 1: of where we are. Because let's start at the very
47:36
Speaker 1: beginning you said you believe that Jeffrey Epstein the trafficked
47:40
Speaker 1: young girls in sex, right, and that Glene Maxwell enabled
47:45
Speaker 1: that help that, and that's why she's in a federal prison.
47:47
Speaker 1: And there's no question that Jeffrey Epstein was guilty of that.
47:51
Speaker 1: We know that for a number of reasons, number one
47:54
Speaker 1: of which is he killed himself in a federal prison.
47:57
Speaker 1: And if you're as rich and as well connected as
47:59
Speaker 1: jeff Epstein is, you don't kill yourself before trial unless
48:04
Speaker 1: you're guilty, right, you would acknowledge that, right, that's illogical.
48:07
Speaker 4: I'm not going to get in his mind of somebody
48:09
Speaker 4: who's mentally disturbed to commit suicide. But I will say, I mean,
48:12
Speaker 4: and never mind Jeffrey Epstein, and we have all of
48:14
Speaker 4: these victims, and to me, you know, there are a
48:16
Speaker 4: lot of women, and there's a lot of people who
48:18
Speaker 4: have gone on the record and that's been corroborated. So yes,
48:21
Speaker 4: I think he took advantage of young women, and there's
48:24
Speaker 4: no doubt about that.
48:25
Speaker 1: But just to be clear, you do understand that the
48:28
Speaker 1: core allegation here and I'm not minimizing this at all,
48:31
Speaker 1: but it's important to point out what is actually the allegation.
48:35
Speaker 1: The allegation against him was that he was hiring prostitutes
48:40
Speaker 1: who were technically underage. You do understand that that's the
48:43
Speaker 1: core allegation, right, Oh, that's.
48:45
Speaker 4: And that's what he that's what he pled guilty to,
48:47
Speaker 4: and that's what I mean. That was sort of the investigation.
48:50
Speaker 1: But David, would you acknowledge that there are a lot
48:53
Speaker 1: of people that would be surprised that that was the
48:57
Speaker 1: allegation because I think there's a perception that somehow Epstein
49:03
Speaker 1: was physically raping twelve year old girls and having his
49:07
Speaker 1: friends over to have these twelve year old girl rape parties.
49:11
Speaker 1: And again, I'm the reason why no one wants to
49:13
Speaker 1: mention what really happened here is it sounds like you're
49:16
Speaker 1: minimizing what did happen, right, which no one wants to do,
49:20
Speaker 1: especially in the main street news media. It's understandable, but
49:23
Speaker 1: it's also important to lay out what the fact pattern is.
49:26
Speaker 1: And the fact pattern is Epstein had a thing for
49:29
Speaker 1: young underage girls. He paid them a lot of money
49:32
Speaker 1: to come to him, and by the way, most of
49:35
Speaker 1: them came back time and time again because they were
49:37
Speaker 1: quite happy to accept a lot of money to have
49:40
Speaker 1: some sort of sex with Jeffrey Epstein. You acknowledge that, correct, Sure,
49:44
Speaker 1: of course? Okay, all right, And so here's what I
49:49
Speaker 1: think that it's funny to me and interesting to me
49:51
Speaker 1: that you accept, which I'm very glad that you do,
49:54
Speaker 1: that he killed himself in prison. Right. You do accept
49:57
Speaker 1: that he killed himself, correct?
49:58
Speaker 4: Yeah. I'm not one of these people who's like buroscy
50:00
Speaker 4: theories that he was murdered. I don't believe any of
50:02
Speaker 4: that stuff.
50:02
Speaker 1: Okay. See. To me, that is the key to this
50:06
Speaker 1: entire situation is if if Epstein was still alive today, David,
50:11
Speaker 1: you and I are not talking about this. I don't
50:13
Speaker 1: think anybody's talking about this. It is the perception that
50:16
Speaker 1: millions of millions of people, ironically on mostly on the
50:19
Speaker 1: MAGA side of this equation, have that he was killed
50:24
Speaker 1: in a federal prison. Well, Donald Trump was president, which.
50:27
Speaker 3: Is you know, right, I both in the state.
50:29
Speaker 4: I think that's loony tunes and ridiculous, and I regret
50:32
Speaker 4: that people think that. To me, I mean, that should
50:34
Speaker 4: be just put aside and people should ignore that.
50:36
Speaker 3: To me, the issue is, I mean.
50:39
Speaker 4: Donald was Donald Trump actively either helping Epstein, enabling Epstein,
50:44
Speaker 4: was Donald Trump taking advantage of young women, whether they've
50:47
Speaker 4: wanted to be there or not, and was you know,
50:51
Speaker 4: if Donald Trump was having sex with a woman that
50:54
Speaker 4: was under eighteen years old, that's you know, that's statutory ray.
50:58
Speaker 4: Right now, Donald Trump's already in a judah cad rapists
51:00
Speaker 4: based on what this, you know, this judge said in
51:02
Speaker 4: New York. And maybe we as a nation, we're okay
51:05
Speaker 4: with that. But I think, you know that the truth
51:08
Speaker 4: should come out. And I think the the other part
51:11
Speaker 4: about this is that I feel like these this whole
51:15
Speaker 4: sort of Epstein's story as crazy as the Mago world
51:20
Speaker 4: has been and talking about this, you know, worldwide democratic
51:23
Speaker 4: pedophilia and whatnot. I do think if we got all
51:26
Speaker 4: of the information about Jeffrey Epstein, I think it would
51:29
Speaker 4: reach into a lot of banks, a lot of financial institutions.
51:34
Speaker 3: There would be so.
51:34
Speaker 4: Many powerful, wealthy people that would be hurt who treated
51:39
Speaker 4: young women as meat and they said, I'm powerful, I'm rich,
51:43
Speaker 4: I'm famous, i'm a rockstar, or whatever it is. I'm
51:45
Speaker 4: going to get what I want and to me, that's
51:48
Speaker 4: you know, that's another part of the story, Okay.
51:50
Speaker 1: And you may end up being right about that. I
51:52
Speaker 1: don't have a strong opinion about that, although I suspect
51:54
Speaker 1: that you're probably not correct about that because of my
51:58
Speaker 1: view of the scope of this thing. See, I think
52:01
Speaker 1: that the key going back to the suicide. The suicide
52:05
Speaker 1: and the perception that he was actually killed in the
52:07
Speaker 1: federal prison sent this story in your media expert, like
52:11
Speaker 1: I am, sent this story into a completely different level, right,
52:15
Speaker 1: I mean, it set it into the stratosphere. It was
52:18
Speaker 1: not that big of a story until he killed himself.
52:22
Speaker 1: But because of the mystery, alleged mystery surrounding that, it
52:27
Speaker 1: created an enormous amount of energy in this story became
52:31
Speaker 1: nuclear powered, and because of that nuclear power, Prince Andrew,
52:36
Speaker 1: in my view, got completely railroaded. He got run over
52:40
Speaker 1: by a mack truck with no evidence against him Gleane Maxwell.
52:45
Speaker 1: Because there's now this moral panic and a thirst for
52:49
Speaker 1: someone to pay for Epstein's crimes, because he's not going
52:52
Speaker 1: to pay because he killed himself. She ends up in
52:54
Speaker 1: the middle of COVID having a trial that was a sham, David,
52:59
Speaker 1: a sham. Her trial was a joke. She may be
53:02
Speaker 1: guilty as hell. I don't know. I suspect that she's
53:05
Speaker 1: not as guilty as people think. But her trial was
53:08
Speaker 1: a joke. And so when you so, when when you
53:11
Speaker 1: combine this progression to Prince Andrew getting run over by
53:15
Speaker 1: the mack truck and Gallainne Maxwell getting a getting railroaded
53:19
Speaker 1: in a ridiculously absurd trial, now all of a sudden,
53:23
Speaker 1: the floodgates are open, right and and and this story
53:27
Speaker 1: cannot be brought back to the to the realm of
53:31
Speaker 1: where gravity has any impact on it.
53:34
Speaker 4: And so I suppose I agree with you on that.
53:36
Speaker 4: But who's responsible for that? Isn't isn't magl World mostly.
53:40
Speaker 3: Responsible for that?
53:40
Speaker 4: Yes?
53:41
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, man, That's what's so weird. That's what's so
53:45
Speaker 1: weird about this story is that it's Magaworld that created
53:49
Speaker 1: the nuclear generator. And it wasn't until you guys thought,
53:55
Speaker 1: wait a minute, maybe this is the golden ticket to
53:58
Speaker 1: finally getting Trump you guys started to care about it.
54:02
Speaker 1: And here's my main question. I have many, but I
54:05
Speaker 1: have two basic points that in my view, torpedo the
54:09
Speaker 1: Trump theory. Okay, okay. The first The first is, so
54:15
Speaker 1: there's this evidence somewhere in the DOJ and the Epstein
54:19
Speaker 1: files that Trump is implicated in a significant way. And
54:24
Speaker 1: of course we seem to have forgotten that something very
54:27
Speaker 1: significant happened in November of two thousand, which is that
54:32
Speaker 1: Donald Trump lost the presidency and Joe Biden and his
54:36
Speaker 1: DOJ took over for four years. They went after Donald
54:40
Speaker 1: Trump with everything they had.
54:43
Speaker 4: I'm so glad you brought this up, because one of
54:46
Speaker 4: the constant things I hear and I hear you saying
54:48
Speaker 4: it is that if there was anything there, the Biden
54:52
Speaker 4: Justice Department would have leaked, it would have you put
54:55
Speaker 4: something out damaging to Donald Trump, so that he would
54:57
Speaker 4: have been toasting.
54:58
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty four.
54:59
Speaker 1: Yes.
55:00
Speaker 4: The issue that I have with this, and this is
55:01
Speaker 4: where we're going to have I think some interesting disagreement,
55:04
Speaker 4: is that I think it's kind of a naive view
55:07
Speaker 4: of the way the Justice that because the trump'sters and
55:10
Speaker 4: Maga folks see the Justice Department now as a political instrument,
55:15
Speaker 4: because Donald Trump's going after his enemies and the Justice
55:17
Speaker 4: Department is going after call me and letician James and
55:19
Speaker 4: all this sort of stuff, the assumption is, well, the
55:22
Speaker 4: Justice Department has always been a strictly partisan institution, and
55:27
Speaker 4: in my years of covering it, I found that most
55:30
Speaker 4: of the people at the Justice Department actually were not partisan,
55:33
Speaker 4: that they revered their independence from the administration.
55:37
Speaker 1: That was David But David Trump was indicted four times,
55:40
Speaker 1: twice federally by special counsels. Okay, but it's still it's
55:45
Speaker 1: still the safety o Jase wouldn't necessarily it would not
55:50
Speaker 1: necessarily have required an indictment. You already said it. Why
55:54
Speaker 1: not a leak if these photographs exist? Why they were
55:59
Speaker 1: running against him for president?
56:02
Speaker 3: Why?
56:02
Speaker 4: Because also there were enough people at the Justice Department
56:05
Speaker 4: who felt like, think about it. Gallaine Maxwell's case is evolving.
56:09
Speaker 4: There are rules at the Department of Justice about grand
56:11
Speaker 4: jury secrecy, about information that cannot be leaked or released
56:16
Speaker 4: out in the midst of a criminal case. It used
56:18
Speaker 4: to be I remember when we were covering special counsels.
56:20
Speaker 4: The special council will tell you got to wait three
56:22
Speaker 4: years until I have a report before you can finally
56:25
Speaker 4: find out did Monica Lewinsky really? I mean, that's how
56:28
Speaker 4: the Justice Department handled this, is that there were very
56:30
Speaker 4: strong rules about grand jury secrecy and evidence not being released.
56:34
Speaker 1: And the David Department of David you know the way
56:37
Speaker 1: that David hold On, Oh, David, come on, you know
56:40
Speaker 1: the media.
56:41
Speaker 4: I just don't accept that that the Biden just department
56:43
Speaker 4: was so partisan. Look when they were as partisans as
56:46
Speaker 4: many Democrats had wanted you. You hear all the criticism,
56:50
Speaker 4: Merrick Garland. Why did he wait so long to name
56:55
Speaker 4: these independent councils to get these cases going against Donald Trump?
56:59
Speaker 4: If he was a part and he should have done
57:00
Speaker 4: it as soon as he was named Attorney general.
57:02
Speaker 1: David, even if I accept everything you just said as
57:06
Speaker 1: gospel truth and a really great analysis instead of hopeful thinking,
57:11
Speaker 1: which I think it might be, I think you would acknowledge,
57:14
Speaker 1: as a media expert, as someone who's been in this
57:16
Speaker 1: position many times, even if everything you just said is true,
57:20
Speaker 1: somebody in the BIDENDOJ would, if not leaked the actual evidence,
57:25
Speaker 1: would leak the existence of such evidence to the New
57:29
Speaker 1: York Times or the Washington Post, or to any number
57:33
Speaker 1: of liberal outlets, especially once they were no longer in
57:36
Speaker 1: power and no longer in jeopardy of losing their jobs.
57:39
Speaker 1: Would you not agree with that?
57:41
Speaker 3: What would they have leaked? Right?
57:42
Speaker 4: They would have leaked that Donald Trump was friends with
57:44
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein, Maybe that Donald Trump knew that Jeffrey Epstein
57:48
Speaker 4: was engaged in, you know, trafficking young women.
57:50
Speaker 3: Well, there was no doubt. We didn't. Nobody had any
57:53
Speaker 3: doubt about that.
57:54
Speaker 4: Until a couple of years ago when Donald Trump started
57:56
Speaker 4: denying it. When Donald Trump started saying, I wasn't you know,
57:58
Speaker 4: I was friends with them for a little while, but
58:00
Speaker 4: then he stole some women from my club and I
58:02
Speaker 4: threw him out because he was a creep. That's not
58:03
Speaker 4: what happened. I mean, we know that Donald Trump from
58:06
Speaker 4: from these emails. Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein got together
58:08
Speaker 4: for Thanksgiving in twenty seventeen, after Donald Trump was already president.
58:13
Speaker 4: That's years after Donald Trump said he cut off Epstein.
58:16
Speaker 1: So that's a hold on, said David. David, you're accepting
58:21
Speaker 1: something in a vague email, and that is, in my opinion,
58:25
Speaker 1: a very very liberal black of a better term interpretation of
58:31
Speaker 1: that email. You you really believe that that email proves
58:34
Speaker 1: that they had Thanksgiving together in twenty seventeen. That email
58:37
Speaker 1: does not says.
58:38
Speaker 4: I'm going to see the Trumps. He's referring to all
58:40
Speaker 4: the mouse. He wasn't friends with, he wasn't friends with
58:43
Speaker 4: Don Junior, he wasn't friends with Eric, he was friends.
58:45
Speaker 3: With David, but Donald Trump's senior.
58:48
Speaker 1: I love it. I loved to Jeffrey Epstein. I love
58:50
Speaker 1: that Jeffrey Epstein's word in emails is now considered like
58:53
Speaker 1: gospel truth. I love that we can interpret a dead
58:57
Speaker 1: man's intent for you a couple of lines in an
59:00
Speaker 1: email many years later.
59:02
Speaker 4: Well, we can have more contacts to fall the files
59:04
Speaker 4: that sit at the Department of Justice and FBI would
59:07
Speaker 4: just release.
59:07
Speaker 1: All right, So I'm not buying. I appreciate your effort.
59:12
Speaker 1: I'm not buying your explanation on the BIDENDOJ, but I
59:15
Speaker 1: think I have an even stronger point in this realm,
59:18
Speaker 1: and that is okay. So Michael Wolfe is telling the truth.
59:23
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's emails that we already have are a true
59:26
Speaker 1: indication of Epstein's animus towards Trump, the nature of their relationship.
59:32
Speaker 1: They're very close, and clearly by things you've already said,
59:37
Speaker 1: Epstein has a lot of dirt on Donald Trump. And
59:41
Speaker 1: yet when he gets charged federally in a Donald Trump administration,
59:49
Speaker 1: not only does Epstein not wait for a trial. This
59:52
Speaker 1: is a man with enormous means, great connections. He's got
59:56
Speaker 1: new York Times reporters giving him heads up on the investigation,
1:00:00
Speaker 1: which we've learned in the emails. He's got Michael Wolf
1:00:03
Speaker 1: giving him counsel on how to manipulate Donald Trump. He's
1:00:06
Speaker 1: got all the money he could possibly need. He's got
1:00:09
Speaker 1: high profile lawyers. Ken Starr is one of his lawyers,
1:00:13
Speaker 1: and he's got dirt on the President of the United States.
1:00:18
Speaker 1: And he chooses to brutally commit suicide in a federal
1:00:24
Speaker 1: prison before ever making any effort to get Trump to
1:00:29
Speaker 1: help him out, to ever make any effort to indicate
1:00:32
Speaker 1: he's got dirt that he's about to spill on the
1:00:35
Speaker 1: president of the United States. How does that make any
1:00:39
Speaker 1: sense at all?
1:00:40
Speaker 4: David, Well, you're looking at people who are suicidal as
1:00:43
Speaker 4: if there's some sort of rational reasons for why they
1:00:45
Speaker 4: do it. And the fact of the matter of the
1:00:47
Speaker 4: people who commit suicide are depressed for all sorts of
1:00:50
Speaker 4: reasons and are not thinking clearly.
1:00:52
Speaker 1: David, he was thinking, David, David, he changed his will.
1:00:56
Speaker 1: He changed his will days before he did this. He
1:00:59
Speaker 1: was he had strategized this. In fact, I believe he faked.
1:01:04
Speaker 1: He faked a suicide at ten days before to see
1:01:07
Speaker 1: if he could get away with it. This guy was
1:01:09
Speaker 1: thinking about this extremely clearly. Come on, David, maybe he.
1:01:14
Speaker 4: Would look maybe he felt guilty about his life. We
1:01:17
Speaker 4: don't know why I did it, but but David, I
1:01:19
Speaker 4: have led this life where I've been obsessed with young women,
1:01:22
Speaker 4: and I've you know, taken advantage of all these people,
1:01:24
Speaker 4: and I you know, blackmailed a lot of people. And
1:01:26
Speaker 4: I got a lot of money because I went to
1:01:28
Speaker 4: people who were wealthy and said, hey, you know, you
1:01:30
Speaker 4: came over to my house and it would be a
1:01:31
Speaker 4: shame if this got out. So hey, I really want
1:01:33
Speaker 4: you to spend fifty million dollars in this business deal
1:01:36
Speaker 4: for me so we can continue to be David. I mean,
1:01:38
Speaker 4: all that blackmails that.
1:01:40
Speaker 1: David, that could all be That could all be theoretically true.
1:01:43
Speaker 1: But guess what, that person you're describing wouldn't kill themselves
1:01:48
Speaker 1: before a trial without at least hold on, let me finish,
1:01:53
Speaker 1: at least playing every card they have. Epstein was a
1:01:57
Speaker 1: by all accounts, a master, you know, philosophically, a card player.
1:02:03
Speaker 1: This was a guy who was a manipulator. This was
1:02:05
Speaker 1: a guy who became very very rich by leveraging relationships.
1:02:10
Speaker 1: He was machiavelliot and if he has blackmail on the
1:02:13
Speaker 1: president of the United States, well, he's in a federal
1:02:16
Speaker 1: prison facing federal charges. He's gonna play every fucking card
1:02:21
Speaker 1: before he kills himself. And he didn't. He didn't even
1:02:24
Speaker 1: make an implication that he was gonna play a card.
1:02:27
Speaker 1: That doesn't give you pause.
1:02:29
Speaker 4: Now, I just I can't go there in terms of
1:02:31
Speaker 4: you know, people who commit suicide and why they do
1:02:33
Speaker 4: it and why they don't, that's just not I mean,
1:02:37
Speaker 4: maybe you know that that's a theory, and I respect you.
1:02:40
Speaker 4: You you're bringing up a theory that I haven't sort
1:02:42
Speaker 4: of really thought about. But I still feel like, regardless
1:02:45
Speaker 4: of what Epstein's motivation was for ending his life, we
1:02:49
Speaker 4: know there's certain there's certain inalienable facts. We know that
1:02:53
Speaker 4: he and Donald Trump were best friends for more than
1:02:54
Speaker 4: a decade. We know that Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein
1:02:58
Speaker 4: shared everything. We know that Jeffrey Epstein was taking advantage
1:03:01
Speaker 4: of young women galade Maxwell was paying a lot of women,
1:03:04
Speaker 4: as you said, and a lot of them went back repeatedly,
1:03:06
Speaker 4: but a lot of them were also underage. We knew
1:03:09
Speaker 4: Donald Trump was all aware of that, and I think
1:03:10
Speaker 4: it's probably safe to assume that Donald Trump participated in that.
1:03:14
Speaker 3: It was the nineteen.
1:03:15
Speaker 4: Nineties, it was New York, it was a different time.
1:03:17
Speaker 4: Donald Trump was between marriages. Okay, so he was, you know,
1:03:20
Speaker 4: enjoying the fact that he ownly Miss America pageant or
1:03:22
Speaker 4: Miss Universe pageant, whatever it was, and bragged about being
1:03:25
Speaker 4: able to walk into the locker room and changing room
1:03:28
Speaker 4: and seeing these young girls naked.
1:03:30
Speaker 3: He liked that. Okay, but why deny it now?
1:03:35
Speaker 1: Well, okay, there's a lot of different issues here, and
1:03:38
Speaker 1: I want to try to keep this as focused as possible.
1:03:41
Speaker 1: Are you not, David? Are you? Are you not at
1:03:45
Speaker 1: all concerned about the fact that in this first batch
1:03:49
Speaker 1: of emails that everyone went crazy about the the Democrats
1:03:53
Speaker 1: put out from the House Oversight Committee that the name
1:03:58
Speaker 1: of Virginia Giaff was redacted with the word victim put
1:04:04
Speaker 1: in it, and that this was the quote unquote victim
1:04:08
Speaker 1: that everyone went crazy over because of the fact that
1:04:12
Speaker 1: the email indicates that Trump had spent I don't know
1:04:15
Speaker 1: what it was, several hours or whatever. The allegation was
1:04:17
Speaker 1: that Trump had spent several hours, no allegation of any wrongdoing,
1:04:21
Speaker 1: but I get that that's weird that Trump allegedly spent
1:04:25
Speaker 1: several hours with this victim. Does it not bother you
1:04:28
Speaker 1: that the Democrats were so insecure about who that quote
1:04:32
Speaker 1: unquote victim was Virginia Geoffrey for a number of reasons
1:04:36
Speaker 1: that they redacted her name for no actual legal reason,
1:04:41
Speaker 1: no moral reason, and put in the word victim when
1:04:45
Speaker 1: she's just put out a book after having faked the
1:04:47
Speaker 1: bus accident and then killed herself several weeks later, and
1:04:50
Speaker 1: then puts out this book, which in my view is
1:04:53
Speaker 1: not credible at all. In the book, she actually in
1:04:56
Speaker 1: the book, she actually praises Donald Trump, right, but also so.
1:05:01
Speaker 4: Your book is not credible at other things. To use
1:05:03
Speaker 4: your logic, why should we believe when she's saying that
1:05:06
Speaker 4: Donald Trump didn't do anything.
1:05:08
Speaker 1: Right, David, I'm not vouching for Virginia Geoffrey's credibility. You
1:05:11
Speaker 1: guys went crazy over that emails. Aha, it's the smoking
1:05:15
Speaker 1: gun he was spending time with with an Epstein victim.
1:05:18
Speaker 1: And the reason why they didn't give the name is
1:05:21
Speaker 1: because if they gave the name, the story immediately falls
1:05:24
Speaker 1: apart from her own testimony.
1:05:26
Speaker 4: Well, I've also heard though that the Democrats who the
1:05:28
Speaker 4: Democrats released their emails before the Republicans, right, and the
1:05:31
Speaker 4: Democrats always had decided that for I think for moral reasons,
1:05:35
Speaker 4: they were not going to name for all sorts of
1:05:38
Speaker 4: democratic you know, morality reasons that you don't name the victims.
1:05:42
Speaker 4: And so there's I think there's an argument that maybe
1:05:45
Speaker 4: the Democrats said, we're just not gonna We're just not
1:05:46
Speaker 4: gonna name any of the victims here, and then the
1:05:48
Speaker 4: Republicans release this whole batch and the Republicans name it. Okay, Well,
1:05:52
Speaker 4: the report that the effect is the same. We know
1:05:54
Speaker 4: that by this person being Virginia Goffrey, that she said
1:05:58
Speaker 4: Donald Trump didn't do anything wrong to her, that he
1:06:00
Speaker 4: was nice to her. Okay, but that doesn't it still
1:06:03
Speaker 4: doesn't explain, well, what what was Donald Trump doing with
1:06:05
Speaker 4: her for a couple of hours. And this is the
1:06:07
Speaker 4: same woman who Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein apparently, according
1:06:13
Speaker 4: to you know, some of the documents in some of
1:06:15
Speaker 4: the reporting, is that Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein took
1:06:18
Speaker 4: it upon themselves. They described, I don't know if I'm
1:06:21
Speaker 4: allowed to say this, but rhymes with woosy. They were
1:06:23
Speaker 4: the woosy squad for Prince Andrew.
1:06:27
Speaker 1: They whatever you want on this podcast. Okay.
1:06:30
Speaker 4: Now, they took it upon themselves to be the pussy
1:06:32
Speaker 4: squad for Prince Andrew to get Prince Andrew the young
1:06:34
Speaker 4: women that he wanted. So okay, Donald Trump worked with
1:06:37
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein to satisfy the cardinal interests of Prince Andrew. Okay,
1:06:41
Speaker 4: maybe friends do that with each other. They're boys being boys.
1:06:44
Speaker 4: One man's flying wing man. I don't know whatever it is,
1:06:46
Speaker 4: but okay, but that's Virginia Guffrays in the midst of that.
1:06:50
Speaker 4: And so if she's being trafficked out willingly or unwillingly
1:06:54
Speaker 4: to Prince Andrew, to me, it makes sense that well,
1:06:57
Speaker 4: maybe Virginia Guffrey is also playing a certain role for
1:07:01
Speaker 4: other wealthy people.
1:07:02
Speaker 1: How much how much do you know about the history
1:07:04
Speaker 1: of Jeffrey.
1:07:07
Speaker 3: Fair amount?
1:07:08
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean, I'm assuming I'm not. I mean, like,
1:07:10
Speaker 1: I don't want to put you on the spot. But
1:07:12
Speaker 1: here's my problem with Jeffrey. Okay. By the way, if
1:07:15
Speaker 1: if we're accepting everything in this batch of emails from
1:07:18
Speaker 1: Epstein to be gospel, you're probably aware that he tells
1:07:23
Speaker 1: Andrew in one exchange that this woman has the only
1:07:28
Speaker 1: person she hasn't had sex with is Elvis in her
1:07:31
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a line from Jeffrey Epstein. Because she's
1:07:35
Speaker 1: she's a serial fabricator. Okay, this is a woman who
1:07:39
Speaker 1: apparently lived a terrible life even before she met Epstein.
1:07:43
Speaker 1: By her account, she was brutally abused by almost every
1:07:47
Speaker 1: man that she's ever met. I don't believe that she
1:07:50
Speaker 1: was ever abused in any way, shape or form by Andrew.
1:07:53
Speaker 1: But here's here are the facts about her. She made
1:07:56
Speaker 1: a complete false allegation against alanuits on multiple occasions, multiple
1:08:03
Speaker 1: occasions there is and then later tried to claim that
1:08:06
Speaker 1: it was a misidentification. David, you know, Damie Trill. Eventually,
1:08:10
Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
1:08:11
Speaker 3: Didn't she retract that eventually? Maybe she was?
1:08:14
Speaker 1: She She eventually said it was a misidentification. There's no
1:08:18
Speaker 1: way to misidentify Alan Frekindershuits. Okay, she did not misidentify.
1:08:23
Speaker 1: She just picked the wrong guy because he fought back,
1:08:26
Speaker 1: because he's a lawyer, all right, So she made a
1:08:28
Speaker 1: false allegation against Alan Dershowitz. You may not be aware
1:08:33
Speaker 1: that when Galainne Maxwell went on trial in the middle
1:08:36
Speaker 1: of COVID in this moral panic in this sham trial.
1:08:39
Speaker 1: You know who the prosecutors did not call. They did
1:08:42
Speaker 1: not call Virginia because they had so little faith in
1:08:46
Speaker 1: her credibility. They didn't want her to screw up the case.
1:08:49
Speaker 1: She is never, David, never before she died, ever testified
1:08:54
Speaker 1: in a criminal proceeding in this entire case against anybody.
1:08:58
Speaker 1: She fakes a bus accident, and then she kills herself
1:09:02
Speaker 1: a few weeks later, and then she just happens right
1:09:05
Speaker 1: before she puts out a book with this cockababy story
1:09:09
Speaker 1: about a prime minister that she can only name in
1:09:11
Speaker 1: the United States. Not no, she can't name anywhere, but
1:09:14
Speaker 1: she only references in the United States version of the
1:09:16
Speaker 1: book because our libel laws are a lot more liberal
1:09:19
Speaker 1: than they are in the UK. I mean, this woman
1:09:22
Speaker 1: isn't just not credible, David.
1:09:25
Speaker 4: Here's my issue with the way the mainstream media, I
1:09:28
Speaker 4: think has treated this the last couple of days. They
1:09:30
Speaker 4: have treated it as blockbuster breaking news that Donald Trump
1:09:34
Speaker 4: spent time through, whether it's Virginia Jeufrey or anybody else,
1:09:37
Speaker 4: Donald Trump spent time with a young girl. Donald Trump
1:09:40
Speaker 4: had a closer relationship with Jeffrey Epstein than he has said, Okay,
1:09:45
Speaker 4: so what I mean, we've known that. To me, the
1:09:48
Speaker 4: news is either Donald Trump was involved in statutory rape,
1:09:53
Speaker 4: he was taking advantage of young women, or he wasn't.
1:09:57
Speaker 4: It's not news to me, to anybody who's sort of
1:10:00
Speaker 4: been following the Epstein story, that Donald Trump was aware
1:10:04
Speaker 4: of what Jeffrey Epstein was doing, that Jeffrey Epstein was
1:10:07
Speaker 4: involved in, you know, taking advantage of young women and
1:10:10
Speaker 4: paying them. There's no news there. And so for the
1:10:13
Speaker 4: mainstream meeting to make such a big deal. Oh, donald
1:10:16
Speaker 4: Trump knew about the girls.
1:10:18
Speaker 1: Duh.
1:10:19
Speaker 4: He was Jeffrey Epstein's best friend for ten years. Of
1:10:22
Speaker 4: course he knew the question that we should be asking,
1:10:25
Speaker 4: which I think there are some answers to if the
1:10:27
Speaker 4: FBI and DJ eventually releases all of this stuff, the videos,
1:10:31
Speaker 4: the photographs, all the data. Was Donald Trump involved sexually
1:10:37
Speaker 4: with underage women? That's the issue to me, And there
1:10:40
Speaker 4: are a lot of people at the Department of Justice,
1:10:42
Speaker 4: in part because of Pam Bondie's own incompetence and Dan
1:10:46
Speaker 4: Begino's own in competence. Back in March, she has signed
1:10:49
Speaker 4: like a thousand people the DJ and the FBI to
1:10:52
Speaker 4: go through these three hundred thousand files, whatever they are,
1:10:55
Speaker 4: and flag every single mention of Donald Trump and every
1:10:58
Speaker 4: sort of reference or any time he appears in a
1:11:00
Speaker 4: photograph of video A thousand. They put no security protocols
1:11:04
Speaker 4: on who these thousands were. There were no arrangements in
1:11:07
Speaker 4: terms of compartmentalizing, and by the time they sort of
1:11:10
Speaker 4: figured out how to organize this a thousand people at
1:11:12
Speaker 4: the DOJ and FBI had access to everything. So of
1:11:16
Speaker 4: course there's tons of people now in Washington who have
1:11:19
Speaker 4: seen large trunks of the files, who have, you know,
1:11:23
Speaker 4: maybe contacts in Capitol Hill. So it's very easy for
1:11:25
Speaker 4: members of Congress who have back channel contacts at the
1:11:28
Speaker 4: FBI at the DJ who say, the story is not
1:11:31
Speaker 4: that Donald Trump knew was good friends with Jeffrey Epstein,
1:11:34
Speaker 4: or knew about the girls. The story is not that
1:11:37
Speaker 4: Donald Trump spent some time with one of these girls.
1:11:40
Speaker 4: The story is was Donald Trump sexually involved with an
1:11:44
Speaker 4: underage girl or girls?
1:11:46
Speaker 1: Right?
1:11:46
Speaker 3: That's the story.
1:11:47
Speaker 1: And if that had happened, and Jeffrey Epstein is we're
1:11:51
Speaker 1: talking about the files involving him, if he had any
1:11:54
Speaker 1: evidence to that to that point in that direction, he
1:11:59
Speaker 1: would have used it well, Trump was president and he
1:12:02
Speaker 1: was facing federal charges, and instead of using it, he
1:12:06
Speaker 1: killed himself. That is a very, very very difficult thing
1:12:10
Speaker 1: to get around. David.
1:12:11
Speaker 4: Well, let's take the inverse of that. If there is
1:12:13
Speaker 4: no evidence, if Donald Trump never had sex with underage girls,
1:12:17
Speaker 4: there's nothing incriminating. Maybe there's, you know, stuff that's embarrassing.
1:12:21
Speaker 4: Why what is it that is keeping Donald Trump from
1:12:25
Speaker 4: releasing this stuff, especially when his own people said over
1:12:28
Speaker 4: and over and over, as soon as we get in office,
1:12:30
Speaker 4: we're going to release everything. What is keeping him from
1:12:33
Speaker 4: doing that?
1:12:34
Speaker 1: You've asked the perfect person, David, because I have an
1:12:37
Speaker 1: answer for you, one that you probably have not heard.
1:12:41
Speaker 1: And the basic answer is this. Maga World, we've already
1:12:47
Speaker 1: referenced this became obsessed with this case and with the
1:12:51
Speaker 1: idea that Epstein had been murdered in a federal prison.
1:12:54
Speaker 1: Now you and I both know that's batshit crazy on
1:12:56
Speaker 1: multiple levels, especially since Trump was president and Bill B. A,
1:13:00
Speaker 1: the Attorney General, was in charge of the federal prison system.
1:13:03
Speaker 1: It made no sense at all for Maga World to
1:13:05
Speaker 1: be obsessed with this, but they became obsessed with it,
1:13:09
Speaker 1: and Cash Ptel who and Dan Bongino, who were in
1:13:14
Speaker 1: the grift business in Maga World before Trump got elected
1:13:18
Speaker 1: the second time, they became invested in this theory. Why
1:13:23
Speaker 1: not because they believed it or had any evidence of it,
1:13:25
Speaker 1: because they were trying to become popular within Maga World
1:13:30
Speaker 1: and Trump World, and that was a ticket to do it.
1:13:33
Speaker 1: And so therefore, release the Epstein files was code for
1:13:38
Speaker 1: I'm with you on Epstein having been murdered and we're
1:13:42
Speaker 1: going to get to the truth of this. Pam Bondi,
1:13:45
Speaker 1: who was, as you know, was a late addition to
1:13:48
Speaker 1: this whole thing because it was supposed to be Matt Gays.
1:13:50
Speaker 1: She probably didn't even understand all the issues because she's
1:13:53
Speaker 1: in Florida. This is not a big deal to her.
1:13:55
Speaker 1: She's not a national figure at this time.
1:13:57
Speaker 4: Hearing you correctly, they're not releasing the FBI. They're not
1:14:01
Speaker 4: releasing the files because they don't want to undermine this
1:14:04
Speaker 4: narrative that's out there in some crickles that let.
1:14:07
Speaker 1: Let me finish, Let me finish, Okay. I'm telling you
1:14:10
Speaker 1: how this story evolves and how they got invested and
1:14:15
Speaker 1: making these statements of release the files, release the files,
1:14:19
Speaker 1: release the files. This becomes this Mantra and Pam Bondi
1:14:23
Speaker 1: makes that you know, infamous interview where she refers to
1:14:27
Speaker 1: she thinks she's referring to files, and in fact she's
1:14:31
Speaker 1: not really in my opinion, she's she doesn't even understand
1:14:34
Speaker 1: what the difference is between files and lists, and everyone
1:14:37
Speaker 1: misinterprets that she just makes a misstatement and is now
1:14:40
Speaker 1: seen as Aha, she lied. She said she has seen
1:14:43
Speaker 1: the list, and now they're saying there's no list. That
1:14:45
Speaker 1: was all bullshit. That was just her incompetence. Okay, but
1:14:49
Speaker 1: you have you have, you have, you have Cash Betel
1:14:52
Speaker 1: and Dan Bongino on the record thousands of times almost
1:14:56
Speaker 1: literally about release the Epstein files because that's what Maga
1:15:01
Speaker 1: world wanted and that was their ticket to becoming relevant
1:15:06
Speaker 1: potentially getting jobs in the FBI, which ended up working well.
1:15:10
Speaker 1: Then they get into the FBI and they get into
1:15:12
Speaker 1: actually see the actual information, and they realize, holy shit,
1:15:18
Speaker 1: he actually killed himself and oh, by the way, there
1:15:22
Speaker 1: was no massive sex trafficking ring. By the way, it's
1:15:26
Speaker 1: important David, this and this is where you and I
1:15:28
Speaker 1: may have a disconnect. The alleged murder is key to
1:15:32
Speaker 1: the sex trafficking ring. Theory, because the whole idea is
1:15:38
Speaker 1: he was killed to protect these powerful people that were
1:15:43
Speaker 1: engaging in the sex trafficking ring. So if there's no murder,
1:15:49
Speaker 1: there's no need for a sex trafficking ring or vice versa.
1:15:53
Speaker 1: So this is where I'm talking about how this story
1:15:56
Speaker 1: became way too large for people to grasp because of
1:16:01
Speaker 1: the circumstances that we already talked about, this perfect storm,
1:16:04
Speaker 1: this moral panic. There's Prince Andrew, the Glenn Maxwell, and
1:16:08
Speaker 1: so then let me just finish David, because so now
1:16:10
Speaker 1: we have a situation where Maga world is still thirsting
1:16:15
Speaker 1: for these files. They can't accept that Santa Claus doesn't
1:16:19
Speaker 1: really exist. They've been told Santa exists, and they're pissed
1:16:23
Speaker 1: off that now bound Bongino and Patel and Bondi are
1:16:27
Speaker 1: all telling them that there is no Santa. But so
1:16:30
Speaker 1: now they've got to give them something. They've got to
1:16:32
Speaker 1: give them something, but there's nothing actually to give them
1:16:35
Speaker 1: because the only person guilty in this whole thing was
1:16:39
Speaker 1: just Jeffrey Epstein. Now I will agree with you that
1:16:42
Speaker 1: they look guilty as hell, but they look guilty as
1:16:46
Speaker 1: hell because they're still trapped. They're trapped in this situation
1:16:50
Speaker 1: where they've told their base that they were going to
1:16:54
Speaker 1: get something that doesn't exist. We already saw this with
1:16:57
Speaker 1: the JFK assassination files. There was nothing. There was nothing
1:17:03
Speaker 1: because there's no new news. It was always absurd that
1:17:07
Speaker 1: there was going to be new news. And so what
1:17:09
Speaker 1: I think, David, David, I honestly believe in part of
1:17:11
Speaker 1: why I wanted to talk to is I wanted to
1:17:13
Speaker 1: warn you because I think you guys are heading into
1:17:16
Speaker 1: Russia Gate two point zero. You're you're heading And just
1:17:19
Speaker 1: because they look guilty, just because they're having meetings with
1:17:23
Speaker 1: Congress people, with the with the President and the and
1:17:26
Speaker 1: the Attorney General and they had the FBI, Oh my god,
1:17:28
Speaker 1: they look like they're panicked. They're not panicked. They know
1:17:31
Speaker 1: there's nothing in there. They guys are headed for an ambush.
1:17:36
Speaker 4: Well, let's listen, let's not worry about you know, the
1:17:38
Speaker 4: Democrats and the ambush and the media and the ambush.
1:17:40
Speaker 4: What I hear you saying is that Pam Bonnie Cash Bittel,
1:17:43
Speaker 4: Dan Bongino. The reason they don't want to release this
1:17:46
Speaker 4: now is because it would show that they sort of
1:17:48
Speaker 4: grifted their way into the administration they don't want to
1:17:51
Speaker 4: disappoint the MAGA base.
1:17:56
Speaker 1: David David, David. There's been one attempt this week to
1:18:01
Speaker 1: release the files, and it was the Democrats that voted
1:18:03
Speaker 1: against it. It wasn't the Republicans. There was a Republican
1:18:07
Speaker 1: congressman that proposed in the House a vote and the
1:18:10
Speaker 1: Democrats voted against it.
1:18:11
Speaker 4: It wasn't the Republicans that the vote, and the Democrats
1:18:14
Speaker 4: want to make a big spectacle of it next week
1:18:16
Speaker 4: with the with the victims. That's why it's not they
1:18:18
Speaker 4: could you know, I wish they would have voted the
1:18:20
Speaker 4: other night when Burshette put this forward. But the Democrats
1:18:22
Speaker 4: have this whole sort of media plan about how they
1:18:25
Speaker 4: want to you know, ring as much out of this
1:18:26
Speaker 4: as they can before the vote. But but here's here's
1:18:29
Speaker 4: the here's my concern with your with your theory. And
1:18:31
Speaker 4: let's suppose I accept that Dan Bongino, Pam Bondi, cash Mattel.
1:18:36
Speaker 4: They're embarrassed that they over promised MAGA, and and they're
1:18:40
Speaker 4: they're worried about their own sort of read. They've already acknowledged,
1:18:43
Speaker 4: they've already said that Epstein killed himself. They have already
1:18:49
Speaker 4: faced the MAGA wrath from going against what they said
1:18:52
Speaker 4: in the campaign. The issue that I see is a
1:18:55
Speaker 4: bigger problem for for them now. It's not that Magaworld
1:18:59
Speaker 4: is going to be disappointed. It's that Donald Trump is
1:19:03
Speaker 4: getting killed on this story. Donald Trump is a is
1:19:07
Speaker 4: digging his hole deeper. Donald Trump is adding to the
1:19:10
Speaker 4: perception that there's something there, that Donald Trump was a
1:19:13
Speaker 4: rapist or whatever. Laurence so Donald said the other night
1:19:15
Speaker 4: by Donald Trump not releasing this, and in my view
1:19:18
Speaker 4: that the loyalty that Dan Bongino and Pam Bondi and
1:19:22
Speaker 4: Cash Mattel have now is not to the mag of base.
1:19:26
Speaker 4: It's to get their boss, Donald Trump out of this jam.
1:19:29
Speaker 4: And if it is a complete dud, if there's nothing there,
1:19:32
Speaker 4: if this was Russia two point zero, they should say
1:19:35
Speaker 4: to Donald Trump, get this out there, let's stop talking
1:19:39
Speaker 4: about it. Here's what's peered all out there so people
1:19:41
Speaker 4: can see there's nothing here. Because right now you're headed
1:19:44
Speaker 4: for months and months of focus on whether you were
1:19:47
Speaker 4: a rapist, because people don't have the information, and because
1:19:50
Speaker 4: it looks like you're trying to hide something.
1:19:51
Speaker 1: And I get where you're coming from on that, David,
1:19:53
Speaker 1: but there's another part of this equation which I didn't
1:19:56
Speaker 1: get to, and this is going to sound odd, and
1:20:00
Speaker 1: in fact, the only part of this that makes me
1:20:02
Speaker 1: wonder that I might not be right is because it
1:20:03
Speaker 1: doesn't really fit with Donald Trump's normalm but it would
1:20:09
Speaker 1: fit with a with an actual rational human beings, and
1:20:13
Speaker 1: that is David. Here's the problem as I see it
1:20:16
Speaker 1: with regard to and they're gonna be released, whatever they
1:20:19
Speaker 1: happen is going to be released. Republicans are going to
1:20:21
Speaker 1: vote for this next week. Democrats are going to vote
1:20:23
Speaker 1: for this. We're all gonna see whatever the hell is
1:20:26
Speaker 1: in this.
1:20:26
Speaker 3: It's gonna take a while, though.
1:20:27
Speaker 4: It's gonna take a while, right because then it's got
1:20:29
Speaker 4: to get through the Senate, and it's got to get
1:20:30
Speaker 4: sixty votes in the Senate to start to bay.
1:20:32
Speaker 3: There's a whole process.
1:20:33
Speaker 4: So okay, the White House was looking at perhaps weeks,
1:20:36
Speaker 4: if not months, of a focus on this.
1:20:38
Speaker 1: All right, here's my primary point, and this really goes
1:20:41
Speaker 1: to a media story, which is I'm very curious is
1:20:44
Speaker 1: to see whether or not you're gonna understand where I'm
1:20:45
Speaker 1: coming from. This story has become so nuclear charged to
1:20:51
Speaker 1: an absurd almost unprecedented degree. And we saw it with
1:20:55
Speaker 1: the release of these emails that every little thing is
1:20:59
Speaker 1: going to be misinterpreted, taken out of context. Innocent people
1:21:05
Speaker 1: are going to get their reputations destroyed, maybe their business
1:21:08
Speaker 1: is destroyed. There's going to be pressure for people to
1:21:11
Speaker 1: get charged with crimes they didn't actually commit because this
1:21:14
Speaker 1: thing has gotten totally out of control. And when this
1:21:18
Speaker 1: these whatever you want to call it, the Epstein file
1:21:21
Speaker 1: is finally released, it's going to create injustice. There's going
1:21:26
Speaker 1: to be people who are innocent that are going to
1:21:29
Speaker 1: be caught up in this maelstrom that is nuclear powered.
1:21:33
Speaker 1: You don't see that, David.
1:21:35
Speaker 4: Look, I think people who were friends with Jeffrey Epstein,
1:21:39
Speaker 4: that doesn't necessarily mean they committed crimes. That doesn't mean
1:21:41
Speaker 4: that they were, you know, taking advantage of underage women,
1:21:44
Speaker 4: and so okay, yeah, there's an ick factor to some people.
1:21:47
Speaker 4: You know, Lauren Summers, right, he was asking supposedly Jeffrey
1:21:50
Speaker 4: Epstein for dating advice. I bet you know, Lauren Summers
1:21:53
Speaker 4: may never recover from the fact that he was friends
1:21:56
Speaker 4: with Jeffrey Epstein.
1:21:57
Speaker 3: Is that fair?
1:21:59
Speaker 4: You know, make a judgment about that. But he's not
1:22:01
Speaker 4: being charged with a crime. He's just being shamed.
1:22:04
Speaker 1: David, you don't so you don't think that the Laurene
1:22:07
Speaker 1: Summer's example, which is a very good one that you
1:22:09
Speaker 1: just referenced, proves my point that is this guy, there's
1:22:12
Speaker 1: no culpability in any of these crimes. There's oh, he
1:22:15
Speaker 1: didn't do anything remotely wrong in these emails or anything.
1:22:18
Speaker 1: He's gonna suck. He's going to suffer because he got
1:22:21
Speaker 1: exposed in a very high profile way. Is being close
1:22:24
Speaker 1: to Jeffrey Epstein.
1:22:25
Speaker 4: He was close to Jeffrey Epstein. And sometimes we unfortunately
1:22:28
Speaker 4: fair or not, that's how life is. Sometimes we get
1:22:30
Speaker 4: defined by the people we hang out with and the
1:22:32
Speaker 4: friends that we're with. He's not having his liberty taken away.
1:22:34
Speaker 4: He's not have his freedom taken away. He's not facing
1:22:36
Speaker 4: a trial all the way James callmay Ltician James might
1:22:40
Speaker 4: be facing. He's getting he's you know, getting a sting
1:22:43
Speaker 4: factor because who his friends, what his friend was. In
1:22:45
Speaker 4: my estimation, though, let's just suppose I agree that, Ah,
1:22:49
Speaker 4: it's terrible that all these people might be unjustly shamed
1:22:52
Speaker 4: and they haven't done anything wrong, but they're friends with
1:22:54
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein is unfair that they're going to, you know,
1:22:56
Speaker 4: lose their board positions and maybe their jobs and their businesses.
1:23:00
Speaker 4: Do you really think that Donald Trump cares more about
1:23:03
Speaker 4: those people than he cares about himself, because in my view,
1:23:08
Speaker 4: Donald Trump would happily throw all of those people overboard
1:23:11
Speaker 4: if he could find a way out of this mess.
1:23:14
Speaker 1: I understand one hundred percent what you just said there. However,
1:23:19
Speaker 1: it's possible that some of these people are friends with
1:23:21
Speaker 1: Donald Trump or he's friends with them. It's possible that
1:23:24
Speaker 1: there is more stuff in there, much like we've already
1:23:27
Speaker 1: seen in these emails that references Donald Trump, and that
1:23:31
Speaker 1: people will take out of context, and he knows that
1:23:34
Speaker 1: and that this will be a never ending story because
1:23:36
Speaker 1: of that. I think that's you know, if you look
1:23:38
Speaker 1: at it from the self interest perspective, which obviously that's
1:23:41
Speaker 1: always Trump's number one thing looking out for himself, there's
1:23:44
Speaker 1: it's not difficult to comprehend a scenario where Trump doesn't
1:23:48
Speaker 1: want to have to deal with the bullshit that's going
1:23:51
Speaker 1: to consue because of allegations that are not based in fact,
1:23:55
Speaker 1: based upon straight pieces of information in an investigation. I mean, Dave,
1:24:00
Speaker 1: but you know, grand jury.
1:24:01
Speaker 4: And I'm glad you said never ending because to me,
1:24:03
Speaker 4: they gets to the to the part of this we
1:24:05
Speaker 4: haven't talked about, and that is the politics.
1:24:07
Speaker 3: The Democrats are in the.
1:24:09
Speaker 4: Perfect political position because either Donald Trump in the White House,
1:24:14
Speaker 4: they release everything, and you know there's whether there's something
1:24:18
Speaker 4: there or not.
1:24:18
Speaker 3: It creates a frenzy.
1:24:20
Speaker 4: And maybe there's stuff that's embarrassing to Donald Trump and
1:24:23
Speaker 4: embarrassing to his friends, which that helps Democrats, or Donald
1:24:27
Speaker 4: Trump doesn't release something and the Democrats continue to be
1:24:30
Speaker 4: able to speculate and drive everybody crazy about oh, maybe
1:24:34
Speaker 4: Donald Trump's a rapists, maybe he was taking So the
1:24:36
Speaker 4: Democrats win no matter what. They are in a perfect position.
1:24:40
Speaker 4: They have an opportunity to take advantage of this regardless
1:24:43
Speaker 4: of which way it goes. The Republicans are screwed, right
1:24:47
Speaker 4: because they can you know, they don't really know what's
1:24:50
Speaker 4: in the Epstein files. They just know that their base
1:24:52
Speaker 4: is wanting all the stuff released, so they're going to
1:24:54
Speaker 4: go along with the Democrats. They'll vote to release it,
1:24:57
Speaker 4: and then they're screwed because they face the wrath of
1:25:00
Speaker 4: Donald Trump and if they decide, oh, I can't handle
1:25:01
Speaker 4: the wrath of Donald Trump. I'm going to vote not
1:25:04
Speaker 4: to release this stuff. Then they face in debates or
1:25:07
Speaker 4: primary challenges or battles with Democrats. You voted to protect
1:25:11
Speaker 4: Donald Trump on the Epstein files, and in some ways politically,
1:25:14
Speaker 4: it's probably better for Democrats if the stuff never gets released,
1:25:17
Speaker 4: because the imagination of what might be in there they
1:25:20
Speaker 4: can put out there where they're never contradicted by the
1:25:22
Speaker 4: actual evidence. That's probably a better position for the Democrats,
1:25:26
Speaker 4: especially if what you're saying is true that this is
1:25:28
Speaker 4: all a giant dud Russia two point zero.
1:25:32
Speaker 1: Well, that last point we're going to agree on one
1:25:34
Speaker 1: thousand percent, and I think that was very well stated
1:25:37
Speaker 1: and articulated. Look, I'm not saying that there's not going
1:25:40
Speaker 1: to In fact, I'm going to say the opposite. If
1:25:43
Speaker 1: all this stuff is released, there are gonna be days
1:25:46
Speaker 1: and days of stories that will probably involve Trump, probably
1:25:50
Speaker 1: involve very prominent people, And my guess is the vast
1:25:54
Speaker 1: majority of it is going to be based in bullshit.
1:25:56
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, we live in a world where nuclear powered
1:25:59
Speaker 1: bullshit can do a lot of damage. And I don't
1:26:02
Speaker 1: and you know, I just have this inherent, you know,
1:26:05
Speaker 1: thirst for justice and I hate injustice, even if it's
1:26:08
Speaker 1: somebody I don't like, like Donald Trump. It bothers me
1:26:11
Speaker 1: that people are going to be unfairly smeared, but with
1:26:15
Speaker 1: ridiculous you know, fragments of information from a grand jury investigation, David,
1:26:21
Speaker 1: You know, Dan right, Well, grand jury investigations are inherently bullshit.
1:26:25
Speaker 1: That's literally what.
1:26:25
Speaker 4: They're dre And that's that's why I subscribe to the
1:26:28
Speaker 4: theory and I respect to the people. The Justice Department said,
1:26:30
Speaker 4: we're not going to release stuff from a grand jury
1:26:32
Speaker 4: unless somebody is actually criminally charged. Then the evidence comes out,
1:26:36
Speaker 4: but it comes out under the rules of evidence, it
1:26:38
Speaker 4: comes out in a courtroom. We are throwing all that aside.
1:26:41
Speaker 4: We're saying, to hell with grand jury secrecy, to hell
1:26:43
Speaker 4: with the respect for investigations. Let's just put everything out there.
1:26:47
Speaker 4: Let's put all the witness interviews, whether the corroborator or not.
1:26:50
Speaker 4: Let's put in all the witness testimony, Let's put in
1:26:53
Speaker 4: all the photographs, Let's put all the videos without even
1:26:55
Speaker 4: authenticating anything, everything, all the stuff you would normally go
1:26:58
Speaker 4: through in a trial to make sure that stuff is legit.
1:27:00
Speaker 4: We're suggesting push all that aside. I think that's dangerous,
1:27:04
Speaker 4: and I think that's a bad precedent. But the choice
1:27:06
Speaker 4: that Donald Trump has to make here is he's got
1:27:08
Speaker 4: to figure out. Okay, can I withstand what's what's worse
1:27:11
Speaker 4: for me? Is it worse for me to pay the
1:27:13
Speaker 4: political price of not releasing things and continuing to get
1:27:16
Speaker 4: hammered for trying to hide things that the cover up
1:27:18
Speaker 4: is worse than the crime. Or is it worse for
1:27:22
Speaker 4: me to put stuff out there? Put it all out there.
1:27:24
Speaker 4: I maybe embarrass my friends, I maybe, you know, burn
1:27:28
Speaker 4: some people, Maybe I create days of nuclear stories.
1:27:31
Speaker 3: What's worse for Donald Trump?
1:27:34
Speaker 1: Well, we don't know one hundred percent what's in there,
1:27:36
Speaker 1: but I am pretty confident for reasons I've already stated
1:27:39
Speaker 1: that there's never going to be a smoking gun in
1:27:41
Speaker 1: there involving Donald Trump's criminal culpability. By the way, I
1:27:45
Speaker 1: am curious, David, from the liberal mindset, If you guys
1:27:49
Speaker 1: really do believe that there is a smoking gun for
1:27:52
Speaker 1: Trump's criminal culpability, and you believe that Trump understandably is
1:27:56
Speaker 1: capable and the people around him are capable of all
1:27:59
Speaker 1: sorts of corrupt why wouldn't they just get rid of
1:28:01
Speaker 1: that evidence?
1:28:03
Speaker 4: Well, Here's why, because the evidence is kept in multiple
1:28:06
Speaker 4: government agencies. And remember when Pam Bondi came to testify
1:28:10
Speaker 4: to the US Senate and she was asked specifically, and
1:28:13
Speaker 4: I'll be full disclosure here. Until about six weeks ago,
1:28:17
Speaker 4: I thought there is no way any of this evidence
1:28:19
Speaker 4: continues to exist, if the wood photographs, if there's anything incriminating,
1:28:22
Speaker 4: I thought, it's all been shredded. It's all been destroyed
1:28:24
Speaker 4: through the years, Pam. And then then you know, then
1:28:27
Speaker 4: we've got Michael Wolfe making the allegation about the photographs
1:28:30
Speaker 4: and Donald Trump with half the new teenage girls on
1:28:33
Speaker 4: his lap in the state whatever.
1:28:34
Speaker 3: So, Senator white.
1:28:35
Speaker 4: House, when Senator when Pam Bondi testifies to the Senate,
1:28:38
Speaker 4: he asked her specifically, did the FBI get these photographs
1:28:43
Speaker 4: of Donald Trump with half naked teenage girls on his lap?
1:28:46
Speaker 3: Have you seen them?
1:28:48
Speaker 4: She doesn't say, no, Oh, Senator Whitehouse, how could you defame?
1:28:54
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah, She dodges the question. And to me,
1:28:56
Speaker 4: it was like, wait a second, if you know that
1:28:59
Speaker 4: this stuff doesn't exist, or you know that your agency
1:29:02
Speaker 4: got it to disappear, wouldn't you be the first person
1:29:04
Speaker 4: as Attorney General say, how dare you that is, no,
1:29:08
Speaker 4: this stuff doesn't exist. We're going to put an end
1:29:10
Speaker 4: to it right now. There are no such photographs. There's
1:29:13
Speaker 4: no such criminal or incriminiting information.
1:29:15
Speaker 3: Period. She didn't do that.
1:29:17
Speaker 4: She gave a non denial, and to me, that was like, well,
1:29:20
Speaker 4: wait a second, why would she do that.
1:29:23
Speaker 3: She would do.
1:29:24
Speaker 4: That if A the stuff really exists and there are
1:29:27
Speaker 4: such photographs and she's seen them, and B she hasn't
1:29:31
Speaker 4: been able to destroy it because maybe there's multiple copies
1:29:34
Speaker 4: at various government agencies or c.
1:29:36
Speaker 3: There are so many people who have seen.
1:29:38
Speaker 4: This stuff that as soon as she says it does
1:29:40
Speaker 4: not exist, then the whistlebowlers come forward and pambody. The
1:29:44
Speaker 4: next time there's a democratic administration, she's facing perjury charges
1:29:47
Speaker 4: lying to Congress for misleading the Senate during this testimony.
1:29:51
Speaker 4: So she plays it safe and doesn't answer the question
1:29:54
Speaker 4: and leaves it hanging out there.
1:29:56
Speaker 3: And what that did is it didn't just strike me
1:29:58
Speaker 3: as an ahah moment.
1:30:00
Speaker 4: There are people on Capitol Hill who are floored by this,
1:30:03
Speaker 4: who said what she couldn't issue a denial? Maybe there
1:30:08
Speaker 4: is something there, and that is one of the reasons
1:30:11
Speaker 4: that so many Republicans over the last several weeks have
1:30:13
Speaker 4: been freaked out because this is that there have been
1:30:16
Speaker 4: plenty of opportunities in the story, particularly about Michael Woolf
1:30:19
Speaker 4: and the lud Trump photographs that has been circulated over
1:30:22
Speaker 4: and over and over, and Pam Body has never put
1:30:25
Speaker 4: that to bed. She's never put it to rest, and
1:30:27
Speaker 4: as a result, there are plenty of Republicans now who think, Okay,
1:30:30
Speaker 4: now I've got to deal with if there is such
1:30:32
Speaker 4: a photo and it does come out, where am I
1:30:34
Speaker 4: politically with Donald Trump, who's already at thirty two percent
1:30:37
Speaker 4: economic approval rating and thirty seven percent approval rating overall.
1:30:40
Speaker 4: Donald Trump does not have the same political power and
1:30:42
Speaker 4: strength he had a year ago. So members of Congress
1:30:45
Speaker 4: are looking at their own careers, trying to safeguard their elections,
1:30:49
Speaker 4: and they're going to do whatever they can to get
1:30:51
Speaker 4: ahead of this to create distance from Donald Trump because
1:30:54
Speaker 4: they don't have a guarantee as to how this is
1:30:56
Speaker 4: going to go.
1:30:57
Speaker 1: I think that was an outstanding analysis of the theoretical
1:31:01
Speaker 1: mindset of Pam Bondy. Normally I would say you're probably
1:31:05
Speaker 1: one hundred percent then on, but I think magl World.
1:31:08
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's difficult to interpret exactly.
1:31:11
Speaker 4: But I'm not saying Magol I mean, Magworld's gonnaterpret things
1:31:13
Speaker 4: their own way. But I'm saying for members of Congress
1:31:15
Speaker 4: who are sort of trying to decide.
1:31:16
Speaker 1: I know, I'm talking about from Bondi's perspective, David, I'm
1:31:19
Speaker 1: saying that because of who Trump is, it's possible. Again,
1:31:23
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm saying it's possible that in her
1:31:26
Speaker 1: brain she's thinking, what does the boss want me to
1:31:29
Speaker 1: say here? And so she went down that path and
1:31:33
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily based upon the thinking that you have
1:31:36
Speaker 1: attributed to her, which is absolutely logical, but of course
1:31:39
Speaker 1: also makes me think, how could David Schuster so clearly
1:31:42
Speaker 1: understand and articulate the thinking behind Pam Bondy not responding
1:31:47
Speaker 1: properly to that answer, but then also refuses to accept
1:31:50
Speaker 1: that if those photographs existed, Jeffrey Epstein would have used
1:31:54
Speaker 1: them against the President of the United States and never
1:31:56
Speaker 1: committed suicide.
1:32:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I look, that's there's all sorts of
1:32:02
Speaker 4: inconsistencies here, and I look, I just I am sort
1:32:05
Speaker 4: of in the camp of that. To me, the easiest
1:32:08
Speaker 4: way that Donald Trump gets out of this with the
1:32:11
Speaker 4: least amount of damage I think politically. And you know,
1:32:14
Speaker 4: he's never going to be crime. He's never going to
1:32:16
Speaker 4: be charged. Nobody else is ever going to be charged
1:32:18
Speaker 4: with the crime. I mean, that's not going to happen.
1:32:20
Speaker 4: The only thing that's going to happen is to your
1:32:22
Speaker 4: point that a lot of people, some people might get
1:32:24
Speaker 4: really embarrassed and they might have their businesses ruin, their
1:32:27
Speaker 4: reputation's ruined.
1:32:28
Speaker 3: Unfairly. That may happen.
1:32:29
Speaker 4: But Donald Trump at a certain point has got to decide, Okay,
1:32:32
Speaker 4: what's more important my own sort of political survival viability.
1:32:35
Speaker 4: Do I become a lane duck as of the next
1:32:37
Speaker 4: midterm elections because the Democrats sweep in and take control
1:32:40
Speaker 4: and I get impeached again, or does Donald Trump want
1:32:42
Speaker 4: to say, I'm going to prove to all of you
1:32:44
Speaker 4: that there's no there there, that this is Russia two
1:32:46
Speaker 4: point zero, release it all.
1:32:49
Speaker 1: Well, I'm really glad that we did this because I
1:32:51
Speaker 1: do have a better understanding of where you guys are
1:32:54
Speaker 1: coming from, and that was what I was hoping to
1:32:56
Speaker 1: get and so I appreciate you providing that before we leave, David,
1:33:01
Speaker 1: I do have to ask you about a much, much
1:33:02
Speaker 1: more important subject, which of course is the fact that
1:33:05
Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks the Ohio State Michigan game
1:33:07
Speaker 1: will be happening. And you, being a huge Michigan guy,
1:33:11
Speaker 1: and we've talked about this in years past, it looks
1:33:15
Speaker 1: as if, as of right now that this game, despite
1:33:18
Speaker 1: the twelve team playoff, which I despise, will actually have
1:33:21
Speaker 1: real significance, not just because of the fact that you
1:33:24
Speaker 1: guys have an unprecedented winning streak going against Ohio State,
1:33:27
Speaker 1: but also because it's theoretically possible that Michigan could make
1:33:31
Speaker 1: the playoff if they beat Ohio State. So where is
1:33:34
Speaker 1: David Schuster's mindset as we start to head into the
1:33:37
Speaker 1: big rivalry game.
1:33:39
Speaker 4: You know, back when Ohio State was reeling off, I
1:33:41
Speaker 4: think it was what seven straight victories over Michigan in
1:33:44
Speaker 4: a decade ago whatever. Every year I kept saying, Oh,
1:33:46
Speaker 4: this is the your Michigan's going to win. And then
1:33:48
Speaker 4: over the past five years, I've always said, well, this
1:33:50
Speaker 4: is your Michigan. It's going to lose to Ohio State,
1:33:51
Speaker 4: and they keep reeling getting these victories. So my heart
1:33:56
Speaker 4: is that my brain is Ohio State's gonna beat me Michigan,
1:34:00
Speaker 4: even though it's in ann Arbor, and even though Michigan's
1:34:02
Speaker 4: finally has a quarterback and Bryce Underwood and and you know,
1:34:05
Speaker 4: a great running game, and that by the end of
1:34:07
Speaker 4: the season, Michigan will figure out how to again get
1:34:10
Speaker 4: into Ohio State's head. And that's where my sort of
1:34:14
Speaker 4: my heart is that Michigan will win My head again.
1:34:17
Speaker 4: Is like on paper, I mean, it's Ohio State, and
1:34:20
Speaker 4: then there's the rest of college football. I mean you
1:34:22
Speaker 4: look at for example, Indiana and the struggle that they
1:34:24
Speaker 4: had over you know, in the last game against was
1:34:27
Speaker 4: a Michigan State. I try to remember who they just
1:34:28
Speaker 4: played that Ohio State just beat the crap out of Well,
1:34:33
Speaker 4: it was Penn State, right, Ohio State just beat the
1:34:35
Speaker 4: crap out of Penn State. In Indiana sort of had
1:34:37
Speaker 4: to survive with the final, you know, two minute drive
1:34:39
Speaker 4: to win the game. So I just think there's there's
1:34:41
Speaker 4: Ohio State, and then there's everybody else. The one thing
1:34:45
Speaker 4: that I love, though, is that that old expression about
1:34:48
Speaker 4: living rent free in somebody's head. Michigan lives rent free
1:34:52
Speaker 4: in the head of everybody at Ohio State right now,
1:34:54
Speaker 4: especially Ryan Day and that's a huge advantage going into
1:34:57
Speaker 4: a rivalry game.
1:35:00
Speaker 1: Uh. I got to ask you one last question related
1:35:02
Speaker 1: to that. You and I have similar views with regard
1:35:05
Speaker 1: to the the nostalgia for the way college football used
1:35:09
Speaker 1: to be in this new world that we live in.
1:35:12
Speaker 1: Is it impacting your level of interest and passion in
1:35:16
Speaker 1: the game in general and specifically with regard to Michigan
1:35:19
Speaker 1: in particular.
1:35:20
Speaker 3: A little bit. Well, it came up a strange way.
1:35:22
Speaker 4: I watched the Michigan basketball game the other day and
1:35:24
Speaker 4: realized that like all of Michigan's players are transfers, and
1:35:27
Speaker 4: to me that was like, what so, I still love
1:35:30
Speaker 4: the college game and even though it's it's it's really about,
1:35:33
Speaker 4: you know, who can spend the most. And I'm again
1:35:37
Speaker 4: I think it was said at last year. You know,
1:35:39
Speaker 4: it used to be that the SEC, in my view,
1:35:40
Speaker 4: would pay people under the table at Michigan and other
1:35:43
Speaker 4: Big Ten schools would try to operate on the up
1:35:44
Speaker 4: and up. Well now, okay, now it's that's you know,
1:35:47
Speaker 4: it's an even playing field. And if the SEC really
1:35:50
Speaker 4: thinks that they can go up against Michigan's alumni base
1:35:54
Speaker 4: an amount of money that Michigan is willing to collect
1:35:57
Speaker 4: and pay for the best football players in the world.
1:35:59
Speaker 3: I'll take that at any time.
1:36:00
Speaker 4: And you know, Michigan's got one of the largest alumni
1:36:02
Speaker 4: bass in the world, one of the wealthiest for a
1:36:04
Speaker 4: public university, and so it's no problem for Michigan to
1:36:08
Speaker 4: spend forty to fifty sixty million dollars on their football team.
1:36:11
Speaker 3: Is that a form of cheating? Is a not honest?
1:36:13
Speaker 4: Well, that's We're in an arms race, and Michigan's going
1:36:16
Speaker 4: to win that arms race every day.
1:36:19
Speaker 1: It is fascinating how when the rules that you don't
1:36:22
Speaker 1: like actually favor your team, they seem to be a
1:36:26
Speaker 1: little bit easier to take. It's remarkable how.
1:36:29
Speaker 4: That was One more thing, because I know we haven't
1:36:31
Speaker 4: really talked too much about the media, but to circle
1:36:34
Speaker 4: back to all the epsteam thing. If there's one thing
1:36:35
Speaker 4: that we can be guaranteed of over the next several
1:36:37
Speaker 4: weeks and months, it's that the media is gonna it's
1:36:41
Speaker 4: going to make us lose even more faith in the
1:36:43
Speaker 4: media as an institution, either whether it's taking things out
1:36:45
Speaker 4: of context, whether it's getting things wrong, whether it's claiming
1:36:48
Speaker 4: that certain things are news and they're missing the story
1:36:51
Speaker 4: or whether it's cow tewing to Donald Trump and not
1:36:53
Speaker 4: being willing to go out on a limb. I think
1:36:55
Speaker 4: the media is the best thing that Donald Trump has
1:36:58
Speaker 4: going for him, is that so many people hate the media,
1:37:00
Speaker 4: and justifiably so when I'm talking about the mainstream corporate media.
1:37:03
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of great independent podcasts and
1:37:07
Speaker 4: independent substacks and things like that that are out there.
1:37:09
Speaker 4: But anybody who's relying on cable news or broadcast networks
1:37:13
Speaker 4: right now, they are as much of a problem in
1:37:17
Speaker 4: all of this as anybody else.
1:37:20
Speaker 1: Now, you may have noticed that I forgot to ask
1:37:24
Speaker 1: David Schuster a question that you might have been anticipating
1:37:28
Speaker 1: because it's been part of my mantra on the Epstein
1:37:33
Speaker 1: case in general and specifically with regard to Donald Trump's
1:37:37
Speaker 1: particular potential culpability here, And that is, where are the lawsuits?
1:37:44
Speaker 1: If Donald Trump really did abuse young women, people have
1:37:49
Speaker 1: sued him all over the place related to Jeffrey Epstein.
1:37:54
Speaker 1: Why hasn't he been sued here? And so I decided
1:37:58
Speaker 1: to text David question, and you know, David understood the question,
1:38:04
Speaker 1: and he basically responded by saying, well, you know, E. G.
1:38:07
Speaker 1: And Carroll, who won a defamation case against Donald Trump
1:38:12
Speaker 1: for an alleged allegation of sexual abuse that I don't
1:38:15
Speaker 1: believe was at all accurate, has talked about these are
1:38:19
Speaker 1: David's words, has talked about how difficult that whole situation
1:38:23
Speaker 1: was in her life, and that maybe there are victims
1:38:27
Speaker 1: out there Donald Trump who just don't want to go
1:38:29
Speaker 1: through the ordeal of being attacked by MAGA and by
1:38:33
Speaker 1: him and everything that goes along with that, which is
1:38:36
Speaker 1: a common response whenever you're in a sex abuse allegation
1:38:41
Speaker 1: and victims or accusers aren't acting the way that you
1:38:45
Speaker 1: would expect, you say, oh, well, they're terrified. We've seen
1:38:48
Speaker 1: this with Epstein already, where you know people are claiming,
1:38:52
Speaker 1: which I'm going to get to again, the idea of
1:38:55
Speaker 1: death threats or that somehow you know your life is
1:38:58
Speaker 1: in danger or this is just so difficult, which I
1:39:01
Speaker 1: don't really buy. But when it comes to Egen Carroll,
1:39:04
Speaker 1: I responded to David by saying, first of all, David,
1:39:07
Speaker 1: I don't believe Egen Carroll was telling the truth. And
1:39:09
Speaker 1: if you look at the interview that she gave to
1:39:12
Speaker 1: MSNBC after she won her case, where She's basically orgasmic
1:39:18
Speaker 1: and laughing and reveling in this victory and talking about
1:39:22
Speaker 1: giving money to other people that are on the show
1:39:26
Speaker 1: where her are going on vacations and all that sort
1:39:29
Speaker 1: of thing. It's really hard to make the argument that
1:39:31
Speaker 1: this was a terrible event in her life. I actually
1:39:34
Speaker 1: truly believed that Egen Carroll loved this. I think that
1:39:37
Speaker 1: this was the greatest thing that happened in the last
1:39:39
Speaker 1: portion of her life. And that's even without the money
1:39:43
Speaker 1: that she's apparently eventually going to get from Trump. I
1:39:46
Speaker 1: don't even know whether not Trump's ever paid a time
1:39:48
Speaker 1: of it yet. I'm sure he's fighting that as much
1:39:50
Speaker 1: as he can. But I really I understood David's response,
1:39:53
Speaker 1: but I didn't really buy that that's a legitimate explanation.
1:39:58
Speaker 1: And it's my opinion, and David, to his credit, is
1:40:01
Speaker 1: probably gonna be the first person willing to admit this
1:40:04
Speaker 1: to be the case should I turn out to be correct.
1:40:07
Speaker 1: Although I do believe that there's a very good chance
1:40:10
Speaker 1: that the water is going to be so muddied here
1:40:13
Speaker 1: by everybody having a deep self interest in having their
1:40:19
Speaker 1: narrative be validated and them not looking like idiots that
1:40:23
Speaker 1: anything they possibly can to justify what they already want
1:40:27
Speaker 1: to believe is gonna be used in these Epstein files.
1:40:31
Speaker 1: I am very very, very very much aware that almost
1:40:35
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna say, you know what, we were wrong. There's
1:40:39
Speaker 1: nothing in there. It was just Epstein that was guilty.
1:40:41
Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna do that because there's gonna be enough where
1:40:44
Speaker 1: they can create smoke, and you know, the narrative is
1:40:48
Speaker 1: way too big to fail. But if anybody's gonna be
1:40:52
Speaker 1: willing to do that, my money's on David. I think
1:40:55
Speaker 1: he's honest enough to acknowledge that if there's really nothing
1:41:00
Speaker 1: thing there, especially with regard to Donald Trump, that we
1:41:04
Speaker 1: have to say that that's the truth. But I am
1:41:06
Speaker 1: exceedingly confident, exceedingly confident that there's not going to be
1:41:10
Speaker 1: any proof of Donald Trump's criminality in the Epstein files.
1:41:15
Speaker 1: Of course, when there is no proof of that, there
1:41:18
Speaker 1: will be lots of people who will just pretend, aha,
1:41:21
Speaker 1: the reason is because Trump scrubbed the files, or Trump's
1:41:27
Speaker 1: DOJ scrubbed the files, or everything that was important was redacted,
1:41:30
Speaker 1: and that'll all be bullshit. And that's the most frustrating
1:41:33
Speaker 1: thing about conspiracy theories. Because it's almost impossible to prove
1:41:37
Speaker 1: them wrong, especially when in this particular case, you know,
1:41:40
Speaker 1: it used to be the conspiracy theories didn't have a
1:41:43
Speaker 1: media apparatus behind them, but in this case you've got
1:41:46
Speaker 1: the right wing media, the left wing media, and the
1:41:49
Speaker 1: legacy media all in this bizarre alliance where everybody is deeply,
1:41:54
Speaker 1: deeply invested in what I think is a dark fairy
1:41:56
Speaker 1: tale where there was no massive sect trafficking ring, and
1:42:02
Speaker 1: that the person that was largely guilty of not entirely
1:42:04
Speaker 1: guilty here was Jeffrey Epstein. Now, whether Maxwell was guilty
1:42:08
Speaker 1: or not, I'm still open on I've said many times
1:42:11
Speaker 1: I don't know if she was guilty. I just know
1:42:13
Speaker 1: that her trial was not fair. It was essentially a
1:42:17
Speaker 1: scam under a moral panic and also during the COVID panic,
1:42:22
Speaker 1: so there were two panics going on at the same time.
1:42:25
Speaker 1: And I don't think she got a fair trial. But
1:42:27
Speaker 1: I'm just it's so obvious to me what is really
1:42:31
Speaker 1: going on here, and yet no one seems to be
1:42:35
Speaker 1: willing to get it. And let me give you a
1:42:38
Speaker 1: really good example of this. So Chris Cuomo interviewed a
1:42:44
Speaker 1: woman by the name of Lisa Phillips on News Nation. Now,
1:42:48
Speaker 1: Lisa Phillips is somebody who a former guest on this podcast,
1:42:51
Speaker 1: Michael Tracy, who's done a lot of investigative work on
1:42:54
Speaker 1: the Epstein case. Although he and I vehemently disagree about
1:42:58
Speaker 1: the issue of whether or not Epstein killed himself in prison,
1:43:01
Speaker 1: David Schuster and I understand that he did for some reason,
1:43:04
Speaker 1: Michael Tracy is not willing to say that, which I
1:43:07
Speaker 1: think is a mortal sin when it comes to fully
1:43:11
Speaker 1: understanding this story. But Michael Tracy talked about Lisa Phillips
1:43:18
Speaker 1: and has done so on social media, being someone who
1:43:21
Speaker 1: clearly if she was abused by Jeffrey Epstein, it was
1:43:26
Speaker 1: her own damn fault. I mean, this was a woman who,
1:43:29
Speaker 1: by all accounts was twenty one years old and was
1:43:33
Speaker 1: probably a paid prostitute and probably very much enjoyed the
1:43:39
Speaker 1: money that she was receiving, and now all these years later,
1:43:43
Speaker 1: because it gives her the opportunity to get attention, she's
1:43:47
Speaker 1: an Epstein victim, not to mention money. Now, I don't
1:43:50
Speaker 1: know whether she's been paid or not, whether she's looking
1:43:53
Speaker 1: to get paid, but here's a person who even News Nation,
1:43:57
Speaker 1: when they describe her is pretty I think they described
1:44:02
Speaker 1: her as someone who says that they were abused by
1:44:04
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, because there's been no court determination that Lisa
1:44:10
Speaker 1: Phillips was abused criminally by Jeffrey Epstein or anybody else,
1:44:15
Speaker 1: and she's being interviewed by Chris Cuomo on News Nation Now.
1:44:18
Speaker 1: Chris Cuomo was interesting because those of you who followed
1:44:22
Speaker 1: with the Benefit of Hindsight podcast probably remember that Chris
1:44:25
Speaker 1: Clomo was the only mainstream legacy reporter to ever interview
1:44:30
Speaker 1: victim number one in the Jerry Sandusky case, who was
1:44:33
Speaker 1: Aaron Fisher, And in my opinion, Cuomo got completely hoodwinked.
1:44:38
Speaker 1: Cuomo got snowed by Aaron Fisher, who clearly lied to him,
1:44:41
Speaker 1: and he went literally running after the administrators at the
1:44:45
Speaker 1: high school where Aaron Fisher was attending when he made
1:44:49
Speaker 1: the allegation against Jerry Sandowsky, who were not the bad guys.
1:44:53
Speaker 1: They were actually the good guys. They were the ones
1:44:55
Speaker 1: who tried to tell Aaron look, are you sure about this?
1:44:58
Speaker 1: Because they didn't believe him. They were right not to
1:45:00
Speaker 1: believe him. They knew who Jerry Zanusky was, they knew
1:45:02
Speaker 1: who Aeron Fischer was. They knew he was not credible,
1:45:06
Speaker 1: and Chris Cuomo completely blew it on this. I mean,
1:45:09
Speaker 1: I would love to have a conversation with Chris Cuomo.
1:45:11
Speaker 1: I've never asked to have a conversation, even though I
1:45:13
Speaker 1: could probably facilitate that through my friend Dan Abrams, but
1:45:18
Speaker 1: because I never thought the timing was right and it
1:45:21
Speaker 1: may never be right. But there's a little tidy bit
1:45:25
Speaker 1: all for Chris Cuomo because this clip I'm about to
1:45:28
Speaker 1: play for you to be is so classic. It's so
1:45:32
Speaker 1: classic because Cuomo is so close to getting it. He
1:45:37
Speaker 1: clearly doesn't understand essentially, you know, effectively what I forgot
1:45:43
Speaker 1: to ask David Schuster about is okay, So he doesn't
1:45:47
Speaker 1: say where are the lawsuits? I don't think he says
1:45:49
Speaker 1: that in this clip, but that's the implication of okay,
1:45:52
Speaker 1: So who are these other people? Who are these prominent
1:45:55
Speaker 1: people that are allegedly guilty in all this? And where's
1:45:59
Speaker 1: the list that we were promised? And Lisa Phillips has
1:46:04
Speaker 1: absolutely no good answer at all, And the lack of
1:46:09
Speaker 1: a good answer here to me is extremely telling. And
1:46:13
Speaker 1: Cuomo is so close to getting it, but of course
1:46:17
Speaker 1: he doesn't. For I'm sure a variety of reasons, including
1:46:20
Speaker 1: the fact that he has no self interest in getting it,
1:46:23
Speaker 1: because if he did, their backlash at this point would
1:46:27
Speaker 1: be pretty extreme. Now, is it possible, on the line
1:46:31
Speaker 1: possible that if the Epstein files really are a huge bust,
1:46:35
Speaker 1: that eventually someone like a Cuomo could come back and go,
1:46:39
Speaker 1: wait a minute, maybe we need to take another look
1:46:41
Speaker 1: at this, and maybe we completely blew this story out
1:46:45
Speaker 1: of proportion. But I found this clip to be extremely
1:46:48
Speaker 1: telling because Cuomo is almost getting it and Lisa Phillips
1:46:53
Speaker 1: is clearly making stuff up, and philibustering has no answer
1:46:58
Speaker 1: because there is no answer, because if there was legitimate
1:47:03
Speaker 1: allegations to be made against very prominent and rich people,
1:47:08
Speaker 1: they already would have been made because we have this
1:47:10
Speaker 1: thing called civil lawsuits that is built for this exact
1:47:15
Speaker 1: same situation where there's lots of money and attention to
1:47:18
Speaker 1: be had, and yet nobody has gone down that path
1:47:22
Speaker 1: because there aren't any legitimate allegations against anybody that could
1:47:27
Speaker 1: survive in court. And here's what this very telling exchange
1:47:31
Speaker 1: sounded like on News Nation television.
1:47:34
Speaker 5: But if you know that there are other people other
1:47:37
Speaker 5: than Epstein, other than Prince or former prince, you know,
1:47:41
Speaker 5: whatever his name is. Why haven't they come out and
1:47:44
Speaker 5: why hasn't a list been put together already?
1:47:48
Speaker 6: It's so hard to answer that question because a list
1:47:50
Speaker 6: has been put together for years, our attorneys, survivors, we've
1:47:55
Speaker 6: named names for years. And when I said, well, we'll
1:47:59
Speaker 6: release a list, it was just speaking to more survivors
1:48:02
Speaker 6: to get more names on the list. The same names
1:48:04
Speaker 6: keep coming up, the same names that we've given with
1:48:07
Speaker 6: their attorneys to the DJ and the FBI is the
1:48:11
Speaker 6: same names they've always had. So we do want to help,
1:48:16
Speaker 6: but they already have had all the information they've needed
1:48:19
Speaker 6: to release for years now. And so to answer a question,
1:48:23
Speaker 6: I don't know why it's taken so long. I mean,
1:48:25
Speaker 6: isn't that the million dollar question?
1:48:27
Speaker 5: Why are you guys afraid to put out the names?
1:48:30
Speaker 6: Death threats? A lot of us are mothers. You know,
1:48:35
Speaker 6: we want the names to be out there, we want justice,
1:48:37
Speaker 6: But why do we have to do it? That's a
1:48:40
Speaker 6: very scary thing.
1:48:41
Speaker 1: And I think you know that.
1:48:43
Speaker 6: You know, it's just we want to help to put
1:48:47
Speaker 6: the names out there, but it's not our responsibility to
1:48:49
Speaker 6: do so. And I think you know, I think you
1:48:53
Speaker 6: know why I mean, so many people, so many of
1:48:55
Speaker 6: the survivors have received have received many death threats.
1:49:01
Speaker 1: You know what that reminded me of with regard to
1:49:03
Speaker 1: Chris Cuomo, since I've been relating a lot of this
1:49:05
Speaker 1: to the Penn State Joe Paterno Jerry Sandusky case, and
1:49:08
Speaker 1: obviously Cuomo has a role in that whole saga, it
1:49:13
Speaker 1: almost feels like when there was there was some questioning
1:49:17
Speaker 1: of why Mike McQuary didn't beat the crap out of
1:49:21
Speaker 1: Jerry Sandusky in the shower, or at the very least
1:49:25
Speaker 1: get the alleged boy in the shower out of that
1:49:28
Speaker 1: dangerous situation. That was the one area where even legacy
1:49:32
Speaker 1: media outlets were like, boy, that is weird. But of
1:49:36
Speaker 1: course they all came up with these bullshit explanations about
1:49:40
Speaker 1: McQuary being shocked and panicked. A guy who had been
1:49:43
Speaker 1: a quarterback for a major college team that played on
1:49:47
Speaker 1: national television and in front of crowds of one hundred
1:49:49
Speaker 1: thousand people not exactly a guy prone to panic, GGG
1:49:53
Speaker 1: and pressure situations. I mean, there was some questioning about that,
1:49:58
Speaker 1: and it was the closest anybody got They're going, wait
1:50:01
Speaker 1: a minute, the mcquery story doesn't make any sense. Well,
1:50:04
Speaker 1: and the very same sense that Cuomo was going down
1:50:08
Speaker 1: that path and almost getting it but not quite. And
1:50:13
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of reasons why someone like Chris Cuomo
1:50:16
Speaker 1: should start to be getting it because this fraud being perpetrated.
1:50:21
Speaker 1: And when I say fraud, and you know, Trump has
1:50:23
Speaker 1: used the word hoax, and I think this is essentially
1:50:26
Speaker 1: what Trump is referring to when he says this whole
1:50:29
Speaker 1: Epstein issue is a hoax. The hoax is the narrative.
1:50:33
Speaker 1: It's not the allegations against Epstein. It's this narrative that's
1:50:38
Speaker 1: now too big to fail. The evidence that it's a
1:50:42
Speaker 1: fraudulent narrative is overwhelming. So in preparation for this vote
1:50:49
Speaker 1: on the release of the Epstein files, the accusers had
1:50:52
Speaker 1: yet another press conference because there's nothing in these people
1:50:55
Speaker 1: like more than attention. And you may recall that we
1:50:58
Speaker 1: interviewed Michael Tree see after the last press conference because
1:51:02
Speaker 1: he was escorted away because he tried to ask very
1:51:06
Speaker 1: legitimate questions of some of the accusers and they would
1:51:10
Speaker 1: have none of it. Well, this time they literally announced
1:51:15
Speaker 1: This is a tweet from Michael Tracy, who was once
1:51:18
Speaker 1: again there in front of the US Capitol. He tweeted,
1:51:22
Speaker 1: it's been announced that journalists are not to question or
1:51:26
Speaker 1: quote unquote cross examine the purported quote unquote survivors, but
1:51:33
Speaker 1: instead politely listened to their quote unquote stories. Sort of
1:51:38
Speaker 1: strange that the journalistic no go zone has been declared. Now,
1:51:45
Speaker 1: Michael Tracy is I think a terrible interview. I think
1:51:49
Speaker 1: he's but he's really good on Twitter. I don't know
1:51:51
Speaker 1: what the disconnect is there. He can be when he's
1:51:54
Speaker 1: forced to make it concise in a tweet or a post,
1:51:59
Speaker 1: you can often be very, very good, but he gets
1:52:02
Speaker 1: off on tangents when you interview him, and I think
1:52:04
Speaker 1: he's totally lost when it comes to the issue of
1:52:07
Speaker 1: whether or not Epstein actually killed himself. By the way,
1:52:09
Speaker 1: he also has told me and said publicly that he's
1:52:12
Speaker 1: not one hundred percent sure that Virginia Jeoffrey is even dead,
1:52:17
Speaker 1: which is just crazy. So even the person that's speaking
1:52:19
Speaker 1: the most sense of this story is out to lunch
1:52:23
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. But that to me, the
1:52:26
Speaker 1: prohibition of any questions is a mass of red flag,
1:52:31
Speaker 1: massive red flag because these people cannot their stories cannot
1:52:35
Speaker 1: withstand any scrutiny at all, specifically when it comes to
1:52:39
Speaker 1: this whole idea of the vaunted Epstein List, and two
1:52:45
Speaker 1: members of Congress I think have been completely hoodwinked or
1:52:49
Speaker 1: maybe they have no choice politically by this entire narrative,
1:52:53
Speaker 1: and am referring to Thomas Massey and Marjorie Taylor Green. Now,
1:52:59
Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green has been getting an awful lot of
1:53:02
Speaker 1: publicity lately because she's now no longer on the Trump train.
1:53:06
Speaker 1: She's been kicked out of MAGA. Trump has disowned her
1:53:10
Speaker 1: and has asked for someone to run against her in
1:53:12
Speaker 1: a Republican primary for her congressional district. And Thomas Massey
1:53:17
Speaker 1: is in the exact same boat. They've both been kicked
1:53:20
Speaker 1: out of MAGA, and I don't think it's the coincidence.
1:53:24
Speaker 1: This is where the media is so unbelievably bad because
1:53:26
Speaker 1: they have no imagination, They have no ability to think
1:53:30
Speaker 1: that maybe the narrative that they have is not just wrong,
1:53:33
Speaker 1: but it's upside down. And I'm somebody who likes Thomas Massey,
1:53:38
Speaker 1: He's the last libertarian in Congress. But I believe that
1:53:42
Speaker 1: Thomas Massey, out of self interest, has fooled himself into
1:53:47
Speaker 1: believing he's taking this great stand on principle and defending
1:53:53
Speaker 1: the victims of Jeffrey Epstein and standing up against the
1:53:57
Speaker 1: evil Donald Trump. And Marjorie Taylor Green is doing exactly
1:54:01
Speaker 1: the same thing. And the key question is which came first,
1:54:06
Speaker 1: the chicken or the egg. And this is where I
1:54:10
Speaker 1: think the media is getting it totally wrong, because they
1:54:12
Speaker 1: want to portray Massy and Taylor Green as heroes standing
1:54:18
Speaker 1: up for principle because currently that fits their narrative. But
1:54:23
Speaker 1: I think it's the opposite. I think that's what has
1:54:27
Speaker 1: happened here is that Massey and Taylor Green got kicked
1:54:30
Speaker 1: out of MAGA, and now they need both a viable
1:54:35
Speaker 1: explanation for why as well as the potential narrative to
1:54:42
Speaker 1: fight to save their seats in Congress. And what I
1:54:46
Speaker 1: mean by that is that, look, I've seen this a
1:54:50
Speaker 1: million times in the media, especially, someone gets fired, and
1:54:53
Speaker 1: essentially Massy and Green have gotten fired from MAGA, and
1:54:59
Speaker 1: they don't want the real reason for their firing or
1:55:03
Speaker 1: whatever the employer's reason was for their firing to be
1:55:06
Speaker 1: the public narrative, so they concoct and maybe there's even
1:55:09
Speaker 1: some semblance of truth to it. They concoct that this
1:55:13
Speaker 1: was because I stood on principle, and in reality, now
1:55:18
Speaker 1: that's just the rationalization there was. At best, it was
1:55:22
Speaker 1: more complicated than that, and you're just now trying to
1:55:26
Speaker 1: pretend and rationalize that you're firing was really because you
1:55:29
Speaker 1: made this grand stand on principle. You stood up to
1:55:33
Speaker 1: do the right thing, and you got punished for it.
1:55:36
Speaker 1: And I think that's a large part of what's happening
1:55:38
Speaker 1: with Massy and Green. But then there's also the future
1:55:42
Speaker 1: politics of this. What they're banking on, what they're invested in,
1:55:46
Speaker 1: what they're desperately hoping for, is that these Epstein files
1:55:51
Speaker 1: truly will be a bombshell, that it will show massive corruption,
1:55:56
Speaker 1: maybe even with regard to Trump, and if it eroded
1:56:00
Speaker 1: Trump's ability to defeat them in a primary, they might
1:56:04
Speaker 1: be able to survive this. And if they survived the primary,
1:56:09
Speaker 1: then they can appeal to Democrats in their district or
1:56:13
Speaker 1: independence in the district and say, see, I stood up
1:56:16
Speaker 1: the Trump and I won, and I'm independent and you
1:56:21
Speaker 1: can trust me to do the right thing. So from
1:56:23
Speaker 1: a political perspective as well as from a personal rationalization agenda,
1:56:30
Speaker 1: what Massey and Green actually are doing makes perfect sense
1:56:34
Speaker 1: to me as someone who actually understands the way these
1:56:36
Speaker 1: people think and the way these things work. What they're
1:56:40
Speaker 1: doing is they have now this is the only horse
1:56:44
Speaker 1: they have, the only horse they have to survival after
1:56:47
Speaker 1: being kicked out of MAGA, is for the Epstein Files
1:56:51
Speaker 1: to be everything that they have hoped and dreamed for
1:56:55
Speaker 1: and promised. And I think they have probably made a
1:56:59
Speaker 1: critical error. I think that there's a very good chance
1:57:03
Speaker 1: this is not gonna work for them, because I don't
1:57:06
Speaker 1: think Trump's going to have his ability to dictate Republican
1:57:10
Speaker 1: primaries completely destroyed by this or even badly damaged by this.
1:57:14
Speaker 1: And the evidence is overwhelming that they themselves are being duped,
1:57:21
Speaker 1: and they're so invested in the idea that there's this
1:57:25
Speaker 1: magic within the Epstein files, that there's this all these
1:57:29
Speaker 1: dark secrets are going to be exposed, that they're not
1:57:32
Speaker 1: even seeing the red flags. Back to Michael Tracy, so
1:57:37
Speaker 1: he's at this event, Green and Massy are standing next
1:57:41
Speaker 1: to each other because you know, they've got to make
1:57:44
Speaker 1: their brand now that we stood up for the Epstein victims,
1:57:48
Speaker 1: We stood up to Trump, we forced him to release
1:57:50
Speaker 1: the files, and we all we got vindicated, and that's
1:57:54
Speaker 1: gonna save us. It's both gonna rationalize while we got
1:57:57
Speaker 1: kicked out of MAGA, and it's gonna save us in
1:57:59
Speaker 1: the next election. And Tracy tweeted with a photograph of
1:58:04
Speaker 1: Green and Massey together. Thomas Massey told me the fact
1:58:09
Speaker 1: that Epstein's survivors declined two months ago that they would
1:58:14
Speaker 1: give him a list of child sex traffickers to read
1:58:18
Speaker 1: from the House floor but never did, does not make
1:58:23
Speaker 1: him question the veracity of the accusations, saying, quote, this
1:58:29
Speaker 1: is from Massey. It's not their job to release the names.
1:58:37
Speaker 1: And again, I like Thomas Massey. I'm a libertarian. He's
1:58:41
Speaker 1: the last one left. And I think either because he
1:58:45
Speaker 1: is naive or because he has no choice, and this
1:58:49
Speaker 1: is the horse he's decided to ride. It's the only
1:58:53
Speaker 1: horse he has left that he is not seeing the
1:58:57
Speaker 1: red flags here. That is a massive red flag. Do
1:59:02
Speaker 1: you remember at that press conference where Tracy was escorted away,
1:59:07
Speaker 1: there was much ado made about the fact that, well,
1:59:10
Speaker 1: we're going to provide our own list of names, and
1:59:13
Speaker 1: because we can't speak sued as members of Congress, we're
1:59:17
Speaker 1: going to read them on the House floor. Remember that
1:59:20
Speaker 1: never happened. The reason it didn't happen is because no
1:59:24
Speaker 1: list was provided, even though it was promised, And Massey
1:59:28
Speaker 1: is now rationalizing by saying it's not their job to
1:59:31
Speaker 1: release the names, which is the same absurd argument that
1:59:35
Speaker 1: the ghostwriter for Virginia Gioffrey has made. It's the authority's
1:59:40
Speaker 1: job to name names, not the accusers. That's absurd, but
1:59:46
Speaker 1: it's also, in my view, a real explanation for what's
1:59:53
Speaker 1: actually happening here if you use your brain. The reason
1:59:57
Speaker 1: why they're not naming any names Number one is that
2:00:01
Speaker 1: there aren't any other names. But the reason why they're
2:00:03
Speaker 1: afraid to do it is because they're afraid of being
2:00:07
Speaker 1: sued because the people that they would name would be
2:00:11
Speaker 1: people who are prominent, who have reputations to defend, have
2:00:15
Speaker 1: resources to defend those reputations with, and they would be
2:00:20
Speaker 1: potentially libel for defamation if they name somebody with no
2:00:25
Speaker 1: evidence whatsoever. So that's the reason why these And the
2:00:30
Speaker 1: most amazing thing is I've even seen people on the
2:00:33
Speaker 1: Epstein accusers side make this argument, oh well, we can't
2:00:38
Speaker 1: name names, will be sued into oblivion. No, you won't,
2:00:42
Speaker 1: not if you're telling the truth or even remotely telling
2:00:46
Speaker 1: the truth, because you're obviously talking about public figures, and
2:00:50
Speaker 1: public figures have an extremely high standard to prove for defamation.
2:00:55
Speaker 1: The only way that a public figure can win in
2:00:58
Speaker 1: this situation is if the defaming them knows what they're
2:01:03
Speaker 1: saying is false. So even if you're mistaken, like Virginia
2:01:08
Speaker 1: Geoffrey claimed to be with regard to Alan Dershowitz, was
2:01:12
Speaker 1: as obviously absurd because you can't mistake Alan Dershowitz. There's
2:01:15
Speaker 1: only one Alan Dershowitz. There's no legal liability there. But
2:01:21
Speaker 1: the reason why the names aren't being used, and this
2:01:24
Speaker 1: idea that somehow fear of death or fear of being
2:01:27
Speaker 1: sued is just preposterous. In this case, the entire media
2:01:32
Speaker 1: industrial complex is on your side. If you have a case,
2:01:37
Speaker 1: you're certainly not gonna lose, You're probably gonna win, and
2:01:40
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna kill you. I mean, Virginia Jeffrey would have
2:01:43
Speaker 1: been dead many many years ago if this situation was
2:01:47
Speaker 1: like we are being told it is. Instead, she killed herself.
2:01:51
Speaker 1: Of course, they're idiots that don't believe that, which is
2:01:53
Speaker 1: insane because if anyone was gonna kill her, it would
2:01:57
Speaker 1: have happened well before Epstein was dead and Prince Andrew
2:02:02
Speaker 1: had his balls cut off. I mean, it just it
2:02:04
Speaker 1: doesn't make any goddamn sense. And this idea that Massey
2:02:08
Speaker 1: is heading into this what I think could be, essentially,
2:02:14
Speaker 1: you know, an ambush, which is a phrase I use
2:02:18
Speaker 1: with David Schuster, is both sad to me because I
2:02:22
Speaker 1: like Massy, but also very telling about how intoxicating these
2:02:27
Speaker 1: types of narratives can be when everyone becomes invested and
2:02:31
Speaker 1: there becomes groupthink, and everyone around you is telling you
2:02:35
Speaker 1: you're doing the right thing, and all the media outlets
2:02:38
Speaker 1: are saying, oh my god, this is gonna be big,
2:02:40
Speaker 1: and there's got to be more to this story. And
2:02:42
Speaker 1: what's in the Epstein files is, you know, because everyone's
2:02:45
Speaker 1: everyone can't be wrong. Yes, everyone can be wrong. Everyone
2:02:50
Speaker 1: can be wrong when they become invested in a bullshit story.
2:02:54
Speaker 1: Let me give you another really quick example. This is
2:02:56
Speaker 1: gonna sound really small, but I think it exposes just
2:03:00
Speaker 1: how ridiculous things have gotten on the Epstein story. So
2:03:05
Speaker 1: there's this documentary which I have not seen, came out
2:03:09
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty about Epstein and Epstein victims, and one
2:03:14
Speaker 1: of the stories in the documentary is that Gleane Maxwell
2:03:18
Speaker 1: allegedly tried to recruit Paris Hilton, Paris Hilton when she
2:03:25
Speaker 1: was like nineteen or twenty years old, to be I
2:03:29
Speaker 1: guess sex trafficked by Epstein. I guess that was the
2:03:32
Speaker 1: allegation in the film. Now Paris Hilton, who's kind of
2:03:36
Speaker 1: making a comeback. You know, she was super famous, then
2:03:39
Speaker 1: kind of went away for a while. Then she's becoming
2:03:41
Speaker 1: famous again. And obviously she's part of the Hilton dynasty.
2:03:47
Speaker 1: That's why she became famous to begin with. So she
2:03:49
Speaker 1: doesn't need money, that's for darn shore. So you know,
2:03:54
Speaker 1: she's never made any comment about this, apparently, and so
2:03:58
Speaker 1: she eventually I guess because of all the news surrounding Epstein.
2:04:03
Speaker 1: She was doing an interview and she was asked about this,
2:04:05
Speaker 1: and her statement was, I don't have any memory of
2:04:09
Speaker 1: ever meeting Glenn Maxwell. She doesn't even forget about the allegation.
2:04:14
Speaker 1: She doesn't even remember meeting Maxwell. If Maxwell tried to
2:04:18
Speaker 1: recruit her to be sex trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein, I
2:04:22
Speaker 1: think she would have remembered, especially given all the publicity
2:04:26
Speaker 1: that has exploded over the last several years involving Jeffrey Epstein.
2:04:30
Speaker 1: But her statement is she has no memory. Now that
2:04:34
Speaker 1: is effectively a denial of a significant allegation in this documentary.
2:04:41
Speaker 1: In a rational world, the story is Paris Hilton denies
2:04:47
Speaker 1: allegation in Epstein documentary, and then there should be all
2:04:50
Speaker 1: sorts of questions about, Okay, if that was bullshit in
2:04:54
Speaker 1: the Epstein documentary, what else is bullshit? Instead? The New
2:04:59
Speaker 1: York Post conservative news outlet, usually somewhat reliable but definitely
2:05:03
Speaker 1: prone to getting things wrong in this kind of realm,
2:05:07
Speaker 1: they have a headline, Paris Hilton breaks silence on rumor
2:05:12
Speaker 1: that gallainn Maxwell tried to recruit her for Jeffrey Epstein
2:05:17
Speaker 1: on rumor. So you're acknowledging that this Epstein documentary was
2:05:23
Speaker 1: just based on rumors. But the most important part of
2:05:26
Speaker 1: that is breaks silence. That's clickbait, folks, because that's not
2:05:34
Speaker 1: what happened. Yes, technically, yes, she broke her silence. She
2:05:37
Speaker 1: said the story is bullshit if you use your brain.
2:05:40
Speaker 1: But no, no, no, no, we've got to pretend that
2:05:43
Speaker 1: somehow this narrative is maintained. Now, we can't do anything,
2:05:47
Speaker 1: We can't provide any data points that might get people
2:05:51
Speaker 1: to realize if they think for themselves that there's something
2:05:54
Speaker 1: wrong here, wait a minute, so that you're saying there's
2:05:56
Speaker 1: another false allegation with regard to the Epstein stone. But
2:06:01
Speaker 1: as bad as the New York Post was, People Magazine was
2:06:04
Speaker 1: probably worse. Their headline for the exact same story was
2:06:08
Speaker 1: Paris Hilton acknowledge his reports. Kawain Maxwell attempted to recruit
2:06:13
Speaker 1: her to date Jeffrey Epstein acknowledge his reports. Yes, she
2:06:20
Speaker 1: got asked about it and said it was bullshit, And
2:06:24
Speaker 1: I realized this is a very small part of this
2:06:27
Speaker 1: overall monstrosity of a narrative. But this is important because
2:06:33
Speaker 1: when people and we see this all the time in
2:06:36
Speaker 1: stories where the narrative becomes too big to fail, the
2:06:40
Speaker 1: media won't give you these little breadcrumbs, these data points
2:06:45
Speaker 1: that contradict the narrative. We saw this during COVID all
2:06:49
Speaker 1: the time, where if you have enough of these data points,
2:06:54
Speaker 1: people might eventually go, wait a minute, hold on what's
2:06:58
Speaker 1: really going on here. And if you don't give them
2:07:01
Speaker 1: the data points, and you're protecting the narrative at all costs,
2:07:06
Speaker 1: the vast majority of people are going to buy into
2:07:09
Speaker 1: that narrative or not jump off of that narrative, especially
2:07:12
Speaker 1: when that is a narrative they want to believe in
2:07:15
Speaker 1: in the first place. And I really think that that's
2:07:18
Speaker 1: what's driving the whole Epstein insanity. The bottom line here
2:07:22
Speaker 1: for me, and I've thought so much about this, is
2:07:27
Speaker 1: that at the essence of the Epstein story, Yes, the
2:07:32
Speaker 1: allegations of sex abuse make people's head explode, especially in
2:07:36
Speaker 1: the news media. There's an extreme bias on this topic.
2:07:40
Speaker 1: We've seen it time and time and time and time again,
2:07:43
Speaker 1: and it seemingly gets worse and worse. But at the
2:07:45
Speaker 1: very essence, what's driving this story is that the audience
2:07:50
Speaker 1: is nuclear charged. Okay, this is not about justice for
2:07:54
Speaker 1: the Epstein victims. This is about the fact that there
2:07:58
Speaker 1: is a nuclear charged, aue audience for every element of
2:08:03
Speaker 1: the news media, right, left and center. And the reason
2:08:08
Speaker 1: why this audience has become nuclear charged is. Yes, there's
2:08:13
Speaker 1: the element on the left of they think that this
2:08:15
Speaker 1: is how they're going to finally get Trump. I get that,
2:08:18
Speaker 1: but that's actually not inconsistent with what I think is
2:08:21
Speaker 1: at the essence and the foundation of what's really happening.
2:08:24
Speaker 1: The essence of this whole thing is the masses were
2:08:28
Speaker 1: promised a public execution of the elites in this story.
2:08:34
Speaker 1: That's what they were promised. They were promised a public
2:08:38
Speaker 1: execution of the elites. We're really in medieval times here, folks.
2:08:45
Speaker 1: We're not very far removed from the guillotine and the
2:08:48
Speaker 1: French Revolution or whatever. We have not really evolved very far.
2:08:52
Speaker 1: We just do it in social media now, lot less blood,
2:08:58
Speaker 1: but almost as much carnage. We just destroy lives and reputations.
2:09:03
Speaker 1: And people enjoy that because their own lives are miserable,
2:09:07
Speaker 1: and if the elites are being brought down, it makes
2:09:09
Speaker 1: them feel good about their own miserable existence. That's what
2:09:13
Speaker 1: this is about. We were promised a public execution of
2:09:17
Speaker 1: the elites. That's what I think drove the interest in
2:09:20
Speaker 1: this story on the right in Maga world. And let's
2:09:23
Speaker 1: face it, obviously no one gets more elite at this
2:09:25
Speaker 1: point than Donald Trump. So they have left thinks that
2:09:29
Speaker 1: they're finally going to be able to bring Trump down.
2:09:32
Speaker 1: That's what's driving interest in the story from their perspective.
2:09:36
Speaker 1: And I have no doubt that because the mob and
2:09:41
Speaker 1: the masses were promised the public execution of the elites,
2:09:45
Speaker 1: that they're going to get some public execution of elites.
2:09:49
Speaker 1: I don't know who, I don't know how many. I'm
2:09:51
Speaker 1: sure it's going to happen, and I'm very confident it's
2:09:55
Speaker 1: not going to be based in reality or any semblance
2:09:58
Speaker 1: of justice. And there was only one House member. One
2:10:02
Speaker 1: House member, you know, it used to be Thomas Massey
2:10:04
Speaker 1: could be relied upon to be the lone voice speaking
2:10:08
Speaker 1: out when everyone else has lost their mind. And he would,
2:10:11
Speaker 1: you know, oftentimes be the one vote in an otherwise
2:10:14
Speaker 1: unanimous House vote in the otherwise unanimous House vote to
2:10:18
Speaker 1: release the Epstein files. One member of Congress, a god
2:10:21
Speaker 1: the named of Clay Higgins from Louisiana, a Republican, had
2:10:25
Speaker 1: the balls to stand up and say, no, I'm not
2:10:27
Speaker 1: going to be part of this. This is effectively a
2:10:30
Speaker 1: Salem witch hunt. And by the way, he's on the
2:10:32
Speaker 1: House Oversight Committee, so he's had more access to the
2:10:36
Speaker 1: actual documentation than anybody else. And he put out a
2:10:39
Speaker 1: statement essentially saying what I did that this this is
2:10:43
Speaker 1: a situation where innocent people are going to be harmed
2:10:47
Speaker 1: because this is this is not information that was ever
2:10:50
Speaker 1: intended to be made public. It's not ready for prime time.
2:10:55
Speaker 1: It's going to be misinterpreted in this crazed, nuclear powered
2:10:59
Speaker 1: media environment, and I agree with that, and so I
2:11:03
Speaker 1: do not look forward to what's going to happen here.
2:11:05
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be a shit show, and
2:11:07
Speaker 1: it's going to be incredibly frustrating. This has already been
2:11:10
Speaker 1: a story that personally has been very frustrated to me
2:11:13
Speaker 1: because of the PTSD I have over Penn State, Paterno,
2:11:16
Speaker 1: and Sandusky, and because I see the exact same story
2:11:19
Speaker 1: almost exactly rewriting itself and nobody is willing to call
2:11:25
Speaker 1: it out, and so obviously we'll continue to cover it.
2:11:30
Speaker 1: I do not. I loathe. I loathe the next few
2:11:33
Speaker 1: weeks or whenever these things are finally released, and having
2:11:37
Speaker 1: to shift through all this bullshit. But I am very
2:11:41
Speaker 1: confident of two things. There will be no proof of
2:11:44
Speaker 1: criminal activity by anybody new to this story, but there
2:11:48
Speaker 1: will be people who will be destroyed by this story.
2:11:52
Speaker 1: And that sounds contradictory, but it's actually not, especially in
2:11:56
Speaker 1: this very fucked up day and age in which we
2:11:58
Speaker 1: now live. Thanks for listening to today's free drop of
2:12:02
Speaker 1: the abbreviated show. If you're interested in listening to the
2:12:05
Speaker 1: entire show. You must become a patron. Please go to Patreon.
2:12:11
Speaker 1: That's p A t R e O N dot com.
2:12:14
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash the Death of Journalism with John Ziggler.
2:12:21
Speaker 1: My name is j H N z I E G
2:12:24
Speaker 1: L e R. That's patreon dot com slash the Death
2:12:30
Speaker 1: of Journalism with John Ziggler. Good luck to you on that.
2:12:35
Speaker 1: But that's how you can subscribe.