Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / SMNTY Classics Redux: E. Jean Carroll

Transcript

SMNTY Classics Redux: E. Jean Carroll · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I never told you production if
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I heard you, and today we have I would say
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: a special classic to bring back. And this is a
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: rare instance we've heart. I don't think we've ever done
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: this before, but we're bringing back a classic that we've
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: already brought back and recently. But there's a pretty big
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: reason for why, right, Samantha.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Yes to my delight. As I was doing my daily
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: doom scrolling a week or two ago, I saw a
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: post saying that this day is a day for celebration
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: as e Gen Carrol, who we had on the show,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: whose interviews coming up, was actually awarded the money that
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: she had won through civil lawsuit against Donald Trump. And
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: this is from scottis Blog. They wrote two weeks after
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court declined to hear President Donald Trump's appeal
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: of a five million dollar jury verdict entered against him
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: in a sexual abuse and defamation case filed by Eagen Carol.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Carol collected that payment plus interest, according to court records
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: and her legal team.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: So our girl, yes, I said, our girl has gotten
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: some because this is one of nick a few lawsuits.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: But some of her money and that is that five
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: million plus interest. Yes, everybody clap. So of course we
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: had to celebrate by bringing back this classic because she
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: is amazing and every time I think of her, my
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: heart just swells just ten times bigger knowing she's still
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: out there doing the Lord's work.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, same every time I see her in the news,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you better win this, like the people better
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: decide with you, and they did.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: And just overall, y'all, she is as iconic as you
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: would imagine.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's a fantastic interview, so please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff on
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Never Told You productive Iyheart Radio. Before we get into
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: today's episode, just a quick content warning or we're just
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: going to be discussing some topics around sexual assaults. I
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: feel like Donald Trump is kind of a warning in
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: it himself. But the book we're talking about today at
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: large does go into it. Highly recommend you read it.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Don't we barely touch the surface. There's so much that
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: we didn't get to talk about in this conversation, so.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: Go check it out.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: But just know that that is something that is in there.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: And today we are so excited to be joined by
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: journalist and author of the New York Times best selling
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: book Not My Type One Woman Versus the President, Egene Carroll.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: Welcome to the show.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: Yay exactly.
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: Yes, I'm just glad to see that you are here.
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: I hear you've been on jury duty.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: I yes, I was.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I actually tried to look up the case because I
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: did get dismissed. They didn't like me enough or they
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: were afraid of me, one of the two things.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: So I got dismissed.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: What was the case? What was the case?
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: It was malicious murder and a lot of felonies with that.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: So it was a shooting that happened here in Decatur
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: slash Atlanta. So I was it was going to be
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: at least a five day trial, We're pretty sure.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: But at least yeah.
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: So I was like, hey, so our jury, Yeah, our
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: initial jury questioning took two days and they didn't even
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: finish with us. They were just like, okay, wow, we
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: got at least forty something out of the sixty. We'll
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: see if we can pick from there. So it was
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: it was definitely a lot longer than I anticipated. And
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: that was actually my first time at being present, like
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I usually get dismissed before, so after the questioning, I
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: don't think they liked the fact that I said I
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: was on a podcast for.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: Inter social feminism.
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: Immediate dismissal, immediate, Right, So what else did they ask you?
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: But asked me about that? It was really kind of
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: funny because you know how they ask about jobs. They're
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: like podcaster, you know, with like kind of a doubt,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, I understand, it's a job,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I promise, but I had experienced as a social worker
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: in like the Department of General Justice, as well as
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: investigating cal the abuse.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: So they were like, yeah, all of that, we're just
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: gonna go.
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: Unless oh boy, oh no, the prosecutor was extremely smart,
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: I want to put you on the jury.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: I don't know if they argued about me.
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: There was a lot of bet they did.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: What was the racial makeup of the people who showed
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: up for jury duty?
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: It was actually pretty mixed in race, because I think
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: there was like the least amount was Asian people and
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Latina people, but there was a lot of very heavy
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: like black community base, especially in that area, as well
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: as white. So essentially I think it's good more more
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: black community than any other demographic. Yeah, decatury kind of
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: it kind of hits that way, right, But yeah, and
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I see what you're doing. I see you're questioning me
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: and using your interview skills over here. This is not
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: this is not this episode, ma'am.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: No, ma'am.
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: It's just jury's are fascinating.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: They are. You're right, it was. It was interesting.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I was kind of both of those, like, I don't
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: have time for this, and the thought of being on
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: this type of trial really makes me a little ansious,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: So I didn't want to be on it.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, I'm still curious and.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I kind of want to know how that played out,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: and especially knowing the jurors, like we had enough time
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: to all talk about our thoughts, and I was like, oh,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: this is going to be an interesting makeup.
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: I'm interested in jury's of course, because we before first
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: trial against Donald Trump, we had something called mock jury's.
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: Oh really, this is jury ECUs a big, big cases
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: where a lot is at stake, And there was a
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: lot at steak because I had sued the sitting president
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: of the United States, right, and so it's my jories
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: of where you present your arguments to twenty seven typical
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: jurors to see if your arguments are working. You know,
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: you don't quite yeah, you know. So we put on
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: an entire trial in find a twenty seven typical New
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: York is in a big ballroom in downtown New York.
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: We put on witnesses, we had videotapes, we had someone representing,
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: We had Donald Trump represented by one of our lawyers
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: who played Joe Takapeta, the great criminal defense lawyer. And
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: the case went. We thought the arguments were brilliant. And
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: then the twenty seven typical New York jerors met to
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: discuss the cases, and they were divided into three of
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: nine each. And here's what they decided. They all agreed that, yes,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: two people could end up in a dressing room in
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: Bergdorf Goodman. Yes, and yes, they agreed that two people
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: could involve involve themselves in something sexual in a dressing
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: room in Bergdorf Goodman in nineteen ninety six. And they
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: agreed that the two people in the dressing room and
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: Bergdorf Goodman were Donald Trump and Ejan Carroll. But what
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: they all thought was that I was begging him for it,
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: all of them pretty much. Wow, pretty much all the men,
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: pretty much of the men. Now, it was that it
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: was because I was They saw me on videotape and
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: a deposition I was too old, too dissiccated, too much
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: of an old crone that they couldn't imagine what it
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: was like in nineteen ninety six. Sequence is. So then
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: we had to redo my hair like it was in
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: ninety six, to the makeup like it was in ninety six.
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: I wore clothes that I actually owned and wore in
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety six. And so that's what we did, and
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: we found out our arguments were way off. We thought
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: we were doing a case for all women, right. We thought,
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: you know this is going to be where this is.
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: You know, powerful men may not always be believed. Perhaps
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: so woman has a story. Oh no, uh uh no.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: The gender divide is as strong as ever in this country.
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: We found out. And Robbie Kaplan, the great you know,
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: legal mind of generation, my attorney, said, from now on,
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: this case is not for all a woman, Jean, this
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: case is about you and Donald Trump. And he lied, right.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: So that's why I'm so fascinated with jerrys.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: I mean, I mean isn't. It's just fascinated.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: We had the best case of the world. They didn't.
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: They didn't see it because I'm too old, too old,
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: too ugly.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: So yeah, and you did an amazing job in opening
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: this because yes, you essentially had that as an introduction
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: for this amazing book before we start, because we did
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: mention who you were and what we're specifically talking about today.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: But I think people you really don't need that big
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: of an introduction. The minute I saw your name in
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: our email, I was like, yes, yes, yes, we need
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: to talk to her immediately, but can you introduce yourself
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: to our listeners just in case?
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: Well, how do you do? How do you do? I'm
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: Eg and Carol. I'm a journalist, the journalist for fifty years.
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: I was an advice columnist for Elle for twenty seven years,
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: and I've led a really fascinating, wonderful and incredible life.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: I was missed cheerleader USA, and I happen to suit well, okay,
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: I happen to be the only person on the planet
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: to have beaten Donald Trump twice.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: The balloons are amazing. I'm so in love with that.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Guest listeners, their balloons happening in the back.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Oh. I there's so much to your life story that
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I really there's so many things that we could talk about,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: and I really hope we can be friends enough that
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: you want to come on to our show again so
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: that we can have a deep dive about your life
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: and all the things that you've experienced just alone and
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: like your vice columns, and because you were kind of
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the beginning with the many others to like talk about
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: what it is to have a call based on people
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: asking you for your advice. You talk about therapists asking
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: you for your advice. So we want to have you
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: on for so much more. So please, if you have
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: any free time and you want to hang out with
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: two lonely girls in the South, we need to come
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: back on for more.
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: But now, why, why would anybody want to come on
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: the show of two women who have decided to do
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: a podcast every single day of the week. Who are you?
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: Why would you do every day? That's a great question,
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: is true.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: One must ponder that before accepting our offer.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: Do fill one of those spaces up again?
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: That's true, It's amazing, it's a huge accomplishment. Then people
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: get addicted to you, and then they've got to hear it.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: You know, you become part of their day. So that's
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: in a way very wise.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Very yeah, you know, kind of like the whole jury divide.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I think there's a love and hate for us.
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: Let me ask you, do you run out of things
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: to say? We haven't yet.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think with the way in the state
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: of the world, Oh, there's other things at least we
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: can update because we have to constantly update because of
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: the way things have changed so quickly, and as long
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: as we have the freedom to do so, we will.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Much like having you on the show, which we are
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: so privileged to have you on this show.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: But yeah, like right now.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: We have to kind of go into the darkness, if
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: you will. But there's plenty there in that darkness. I
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: don't want to go hard on time and trying to
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: find the optimistic point of view.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: So it must be amazing that you had to really
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: start turning towards the dark because I know you two
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: don't necessarily that's not your life vision.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, it's not.
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: I've been doing this.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I've been on this podcast either as a producer or
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: editor since twenty ten.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: Way minute twenty ten ten, I didn't.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Start as a host until like, I think twenty eighteen. Wow,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: but I was producing, editing, and so seeing like the
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: timeline of how things have changed in this space has
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: been really really.
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: Wild, particularly the road that women have taken since twenty ten. Yes, yes, indeed.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Well, one thing we wanted to talk about before we
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: get in to your book more in depth is that
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: you do have this really.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: Varied writing career.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: You've written for SNL, You're a contributing editor for Playboy,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: the Advice Column ask Egene, numerous books. You've had a
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: lot of adventures doing it. How did you get into writing?
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: When I was twelve, I sent off my first pitch
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: letter to the series of Robut catalogs. I had an
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: idea for a story. I just I was raised in
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: a house full of magazines. One of the high points
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: in my childhood was my father coming home waiving Time
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: Magazine and saying they've published my letter in Time Magazine,
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: And the whole street where we lived was like, oh
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: my god, Tom Carl's got his letter publishing Time Magazine.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: So I thought, wow, this is pretty exciting being in
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: a magazine, right, So that's sort of what I wanted
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: to do. And I spent twenty five years after pitching
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: the series in Roebuck Caalog at the asy, Joe, took
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: me twenty five years to get in my first magazine,
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: twenty five years. Can you imagine the hideous ambition drive
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: lust to be a magazine that would drive some poor
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: woman twenty five years through no, no, no, no, the
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: blizzard of nos from New York editor. I never got
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: a yes. I never got a yes. And then in Esquire,
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: a woman named Marilyn Johnson picked my poor Manila envelope
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: off the top of their slush pile. And Esquire at
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: the time was the just the brilliant literary magazine in
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: the country. And there's slushbot. I have pictures. We're five
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: and six feet tall, that's how tall. They're slush wrong
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: and she having to pick it off, and she called
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: me and they accepted it. So that's all I needed
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: to get in, you know. Once I was in, you know,
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: once you're in, you're in. And I got my big
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: size of loving shoe in that Esquire door, and that's
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: all I needed.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Like there's so many questions. I have a feeling this
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: is going to be a long interview. Because every time
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: you kept give us like such great storytelling information, I
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: have like more questions that.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Come off of that.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: So so hopefully we can get through this from the
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: hour A lot it to us. If not, I'm telling
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: you we want you to come back.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: But all of that to say, how did you deal?
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: What's twenty five? What made you keep going? Within like
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: having twenty five years of a projection? Because I'm one
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: of those that like you hurt my feelings on my
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: just leave that life enough for me of a rejection,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: but you pushed through and that's a dedication in itself.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: How what what made you keep going?
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: The glamorous life of a magazine writer was is almost
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: unimanageable today. To work for a magazine meant you had
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: the ticket. They would send you anywhere in the world
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: to write about people you had never met, would never
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: see again, about some subjects you knew nothing about, and
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: they would send you away and you would get it
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: was the life was so adventuresome and so glamorous that
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: I couldn't help but want to just be right in
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: the middle of everything. And it turned out to be true.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: It turned out to be it turned out I mean,
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: I mean the off days in you know, the eighties,
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: at the peak of magazine Glamor, running down the boulevards
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: at three point thirty in the morning, you know, getting
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: eating a French onion soup at four in the morning.
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: You know, just going just it's just you just banging
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: on life. It's ship ring on every bell. And there
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: are several books out right now about the Glamour's eighties magazine,
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: the Graydon Carter biography. There's one now about Condie Mask
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: coming out. But it really was. It was romantic and uh,
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: you know it was. It was a stupendous stupendous Unfortunately,
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: now do you know what our new magazines are. Our
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: new magazines are now podcasts. That's what the new magazines are.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: That's it that the podcasts have taken over. Well, I
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: think it's pretty cool.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: I think it's pretty cool an interesting format. I will
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: say for sure, I want the Glamorers part because I
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: think your life story, your career story, where's your HBO series?
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: You need one. You need it just to.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Tell the people out there and if someone does pick
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: it up, I want I want a personage.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: I need it.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: That's smart, that's smart.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: My name I'll here y'all.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Okay Again, Like I said, I have a feeling we're
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: gonna have so much to talk about, and I'm going
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: to try to focus.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: I promise I'm gonna try to focus in your book,
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: not my type.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: One woman versus a President, which, by the way, what
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: a title delves into your two lawsuits against Donald Trump.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: So before we get into the specifics, could you break
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: down the lawsuits so we and the audience are all
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: on the same page. Annoying, especially what you thought of
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: with the lawsuit and everything else.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Could you break that down for us?
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: Very simple. Nineteen ninety six, Donald Trump and I ran
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: into each other in front of Bergdorf Goodman. Bergdorf Goodman
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: is a luxury department. It's not a department store. It's
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: a specialty shore. It's like no other store on the
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: base of the earth. It's a mansion at seven floors,
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: and it's just brillant. He asked me to help him
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: find a gift for a friend. I was delighted that
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: that was my job. That's my business, I advised people.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: So it turned very dark when we got to the
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: sixth floor, and it was so bad that I stayed
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: silent about it for almost thirty years and then the
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: Weinstein story hit the cover of the New York Times.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: Remember that, and the waves of women standing up and
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: telling their story. I just said, well, I am the
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: biggest hypocrite of all time. God damn it, that's seventy
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: game five. I'm not going to be silent any longer.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: And I told my story. He when it hit, It
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: was on the cover of New York magazine, when it
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: hit for three straight days from the White House, he
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: called me a liar, and he said I was a
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: liar twenty six different times. I knew there would be
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: a ruckus I had. I was no, I was not
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: at all prepared for what for that? And at a
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: party at Molly jong Fast, who you should also have
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: on your podcast. She just wrote a great book about
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: her mother. I ran into George Conway, of all people,
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: and George was the first person to actually tell me
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: about possibly something called a lawsuit. George was, of course,
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: as a famous lawyer in his own right. He went
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: to he was, you know, five bigger capitin from Harvard.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: He went to Yale Law School, he started the Lincoln Project,
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: and he explained to me what a lawsuit is nobody'd
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: ever really taken the time, and he said, actually he
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: wrote a piece about it in the Washington Post that
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: George was a famous Republican by the time. At the party,
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: he had written a big op ed in the Washington
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: Post to his fellow Republicans saying, if you believe Jannita Broadrick,
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: remember why Nita Brodrick is a woman who claimed that
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: President Clinton had raped her. So George's op ed piece was,
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: if you believe one Nita Broadrick, you gotta believe Egene
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: Carol because she has a better case, a stronger case.
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: So I went over to thank him, and then that's
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: when he explained that.
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: I had a lawsuit, and it was I never thought
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: of lawsuit, so I was not thinking of loss of
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: other people are saying are you going to sue?
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: Are you going to sue? And I it would just
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: it would not mean anything because I didn't even know
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: what that meant. So he said, and I may be
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: able to help. Think of someone to help you. And
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: the next day here's an email saying introductory email and
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: there were two words, Robbie kaplan. It was like a
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: bomb going off, because you know, Robbie at that time
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: was just trouncing the Nazis in Charlottesville. She'd open the
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: way to gay rights in a Mayerica America with Windsor.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: She was really, she really is one of the great
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: legal minds that's ever practiced law in the whole United States.
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: So we met two days later and that was it.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: I knew the minute I shook her hand that this
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: is what I wanted to do. So we sued him
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: for defamation. We see the sitting president for defamation. That
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: started a long trip and suit him for defamation. He
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: asked the DOJ to step in and to pay his
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: legal bills and represented him well. That case was stopped.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: A second case, I sued him again for sexual abuse
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: because New York State passed something called the Adult Survivors Act.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: So then midnight on Thanksgiving I sued him again for
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: sexual assault. So now we have two suits. Okay, with
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: sexual assault and defamation went first. That we won unanimous
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: jury said Trump was liable for sexual abuse and defamation.
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: We totally won that. Two days later, after we won,
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: Trump went on the CNN town hall and re said
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: and redid everything. He had just paid me five million
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: dollars because he said in the person. So I sued
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: him again and that became that that was added to
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: the first suit. So the second trial was only about damages.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: We had proved there was sexual assault, so we didn't
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: need what now. It was about damage done to me.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: And that was the big trial, and he misbehaved every
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: single It was wonderful just to see him in court.
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, the apricot makeup, the hair done up
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: like Barbara Stanwick in Ballifire, I mean, the antics. It
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: was an incredible It was just an After each day's
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: trial he would go out and say, this is a
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: travesty of judge. I deserve I deserve the damage she
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: hurt me. Why you know why? Why? So So that
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: was the second trial, and that when we won, and
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: he's being made to pay eighty three point three million
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: dollars for his lives and the damage he did to
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: me because he killed my reputation.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: He just killed it, right, And I know just last
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: month he lost the appeal to that, which is even
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: more glorious to see.
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: No, he always loses the appeals. He loses every single aval.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: He must be exhausted from losing. I mean he must,
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: he just must, see Robbie Caplan's face and just fake
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: from fear because he cannot He cannot win this case.
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: He cannot win it. He's exhausted, the appeals on the
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: first truck, the five million dollar drought, He's lost all that.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: The only thing he can do now is go to
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: the Supreme Court. He has sixty days to go and
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: he hasn't gone yet. So I don't know what he's
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: I don't think. Well, wait a minute, Annie Samanthy, what
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: do you think do you think this Supreme Court is
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: going to want to hear a case where the President
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: of the United States, who they all apparently worship, sexual
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: abuse of women? Do do you think they want to
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: hear that case?
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Want to hear?
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: I mean would they hear?
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I don't because there's too much I don't Trump, You're
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: trying to get me in trouble. There's a lot to
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: be said that this Supreme Court, especially the way he
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: is stacked, is there purposely and for a reason, and
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: it's for Trump's advantage. So I think, like I would
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: hesitate saying that, I don't think they would want to
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: hear it, but I don't think they would completely dismiss it.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: So who knows? Who knows because also we're not legal.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not a legal person, so.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: That you know you're but you're a highly intelligent person.
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: It doesn't make sense that during these Epstein days that
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: they would hear anything.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: And that's the other question to that is if he does,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: well that open it up, because you mentioned that in
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: your book and about the fact that you had that
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: as like in your back pocket. That could be like,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: if he was smart about it, I would think that
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: he especially because he's I feel like he's done everything
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: he can try to suppress that information. So this seems
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: like if you were But then again, I don't know
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: the level of intelligence, I don't kindly that I'm going trouble.
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: Well, maybe that the level of intelligences they may want
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: to help him when.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Right right, Well, also, like I said, the level in
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: touches are like this may get view and avenue to
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: open up all of that.
• 29:02
  Speaker 7: Both questions about oh it would not yes, exactly, it
• 29:05
  Speaker 7: would not be smart because their only argument, I here,
• 29:09
  Speaker 7: do you know what Trump's argument is on this case?
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: Tell me, oh boy, you're not gonna believe it. You
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: are not going to believe it. Trump is saying, because
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: one of my witnesses. Remember I had eleven witnesses at
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: the first trial, which is unusual because there are usually
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: never any witnesses when sexual assault takes places. Well, we
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: had eleven witnesses. One of those witnesses was Jessica Leads
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: and you remember her. She was the woman who he
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: assaulted on the airplane in nineteen eighty. Okay, and he's
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: always denied it, and there are cases that she should
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: not have been a witness. Are you ready for this?
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: You better grip your deaths. You got a grip, because
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: I don't want you to fall to the floor. Okay.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: Their argument is she should not have been allowed to
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: be a witness because when he assaulted her in nineteen eighty,
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: assaulting a woman on an airplane was not a crime
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: in nineteen eighty.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: A feeling you're gonna say that.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Because in the air yeah, oh my gosh, I thought
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: it was going to be that she should have had
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: her own case, which is also pretty damning.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: I can I feel like that.
• 30:40
  Speaker 6: That's how they're thinking, that's how that So this is
• 30:44
  Speaker 6: why I say I go back and forth, like I
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: would say, rationally he should not, but then again, his
• 30:51
  Speaker 6: ego as well as the fact that, yes, he's he.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Will continue to lose to you in order to try
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: to win, which is also a thing.
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: But right now, cool, that's that's I like that. I
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: like that. Yeah, that's good.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just saying that there's so much to that.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: That that's like he is one of those and then
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: his team whatever whatnot.
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: He's got the lawyers in the country, you know, he's
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: maybe money from. Yeah, they they're all now Alena Hobbe
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: is now as you know, attorney general. You know, Joe
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: Takapina goes on to his attorneys are all Okay, Alena
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: Habba Esquire doesn't know Diddley squat about the law. Okay,
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: we understand that. We understand that. But she's brilliant. She's
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: a great politician, mark my words. She will be running
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: percentate soon. She is. And she's got the stuff. She's
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: got beauty, brains, confidence, she can do it all. She
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: just doesn't know anything about the law anything.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: You know. It doesn't sound like a requirement needed for
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: any of those decisions at this point in time.
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of things about Trump's, like people in
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: his orbit that I'm like, this is just you want
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: someone who looks a certain way and who loves you,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: and so a lot of what I was reading in
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: the book I felt was less about the law and
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: more that they were trying to play on people's ideas
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: about sexual assault or people's ideas like these things they
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: know have worked, but they're not like actually using a
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: good law case, like they're just playing to these ideas
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: and the jury. Which one of the things that stuck
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: out to me is you do start the book and
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: you say, you know, I want you to be as
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: discombobulated as I was during this whole process, and you
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: can just see transcripts of the questions you got asked,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: and it was very telling of what they were trying
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: to paint, the story they were trying to tell. And
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: I think the title you know, not my type. You
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: talked about that a little bit more a little bit earlier,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: but that's something we've discussed. We've been very open about
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: our own experiences with sexual assaults, and one of the
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: things with mine was that the first one of the
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: first things I thought was, no one's going to believe
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: me because I'm not pretty enough.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: I never believe it.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: And you talk about that in the book where you say,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: you wrote, nobody's going to believe an eighty year old
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: woman was ever attractive enough to assault. So can you
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: talk about that and why you titled the book that.
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: Well, the title is It's just too delicious because he
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: was sitting at the what's the famous desk called the
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: what's his the desk? Yeah, he was sitting at the
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: resolute desk when reporters from the Hill asked him about
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: this assault and he said to the reporters from the
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: White House, as president, she's not my type. Okay. Then
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: missus Robbie Kaplan gets him in a deposition. She's at
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: Mary Lago and he's on camera and everybody's recording him,
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: and he she gets in to say several times that
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: he has been shown a photograph of me. She tells
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: him three times she is about to show him a
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: photograph of the playtip e gen Carrol. She's fair, but
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: she's like Odessus. She just lays trap after a trap,
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: and like the cyclops, poor old Trump is gonna fall
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: into most of those things. So, after telling him three
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: times she's gonna show, she shoves a nice black and
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: white photo across to him. He's got four people in it.
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: She says, can you identify the people in this photograph?
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: Immediately he says, that's John Johnson. Why John Johnson is
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: on TV. That's the first person. He's my ex husband.
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: Great guy. Then he slides past Ivana. He says, I
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: don't know who that is, and then he points right
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: at me. He says that's Marla, and Mama said, you're
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: saying that. He says, yes, yeah, that's my wife. Then
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: Haba lips in says no, that's Carol, and then Trump
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: says uh huh not and nods, and then he says,
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: about seven seconds later, but the photo is blory. The photo,
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: of course, is as clear as just It's just crystal
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: and clear. So it was odd if you see pictures
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: of Marla and me from the time we are, it's
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: difficult to tell us apart. I mean, it's really a
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: strange thing. So most attorneys at that point would have said,
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: look it's over, you've got no case. I mean, that's it.
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: That's but he of course went on and so the
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: not my type thing is so he says, not my type,
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: and then he says, yes, that's smart. So of course
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: I'm going to title the book not my Type because
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: he's not my type. He is not my type. And
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: I don't think he's your type. Annie, I don't think
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: he's your tribe. Samantha, I don't think he's our type,
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: do you. No, No, I don't know. We need to
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: hear from your listeners. We need to hear from listeners.
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: Is Dowald Trump your type? I don't know. It's down
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: Trump your type. Seriously, I'm a little nauseated.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: We can't talk about this in context of the human.
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: No, No, can I just say for the listeners, I
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: have them on camera. They're both looking like they're well,
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: I don't know. They're holding their hands over their mouths
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: O them. I don't know.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: You're trying to get us in trouble for what you do.
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, so you already talked about your mock jury
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: and the outcome of that trial and how it was like, okay,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: now we have to change our argument. As a part
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: of this, you tried to recreate how you looked at
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: the time. You even hunted down the hairstylist who gave
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: you the bob You recreated outfits, right, Can you explain
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: why that was so important?
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: I had to give the jury of an echo of
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: the woman that was attacked in Brodors. They couldn't see
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: it from me just sitting there. So we had to
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: create the look, the same look that I had in
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety six, And so when they held up pictures
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: of me in nineteen ninety six, they could really put
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: it together with the woman who was sitting at the
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: plaintiff's table. Because we were against a force so large
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: and so powerful, the only thing that could fight that
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: borus was fact. And that's what that's what we use.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: Fact she is okay, they could see, okay, there's a
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: dim echo of the woman that we're talking about here.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: That's what we had to go with.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: That's such an odd situation in prepping for our trials,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: is that you have to play or look the part
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: in order to be of course, a believed, be even
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: heard at any point in time. Into that you have
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: to go through the most invasive questions that seems nonsensical
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: half the time, like why are we even talking about this?
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: My personal life has nothing to do with that specific incident.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: And at one point, I know the Trump team asked
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: you about your lovers, like they needed to go through
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: a whole list and even descriptors of people. And by
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: the way, we just recently had an episode about zuobale Zoo.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: So when Ben Vereen came on your list, I was like, wait, what,
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: wait what.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: I did?
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: I was like, I was like what Ben Veren? I
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: just talked about him anyway, moving on with a wow.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: I was just like, it just made me made me
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: my fuck and you were able to respond with detail. Unfortunately,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: because they kept asking you things like all of that
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: seems so over the top in any like this has
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with anything. But with all of that, A,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: how were you able to go through and honestly do
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: this type of interview? Uh, with the humor that you
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: were able to insert into this book, because that in
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: itself made me die a little bit. Just the thought
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: of having to replay, like tell about my personal life
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: to talk about a really horrific incident. A. I'm like,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: wait what and then you did it with such finesse
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: in the book, but also just being able to do
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: it seemingly respectfully to them and just what it wasn't
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: like to go through that type of questioning.
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: Talking about my lovers was one of the most fabulous
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: moments I got to enjoy it. I loved it. I
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: love talking about my lovers. I love it. You want
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: to talk about my lovers of Lena Square, let's talk
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: about me.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: You literally gave the accolades.
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: I started off with a gold medal, Olympic world record
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: holding butterfly jam. You know, so it was. It was
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: the one moment in that deposition when I felt I
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: was flying with happiness. Said we lifted the whole room.
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: It was fantastic. It was just yeah, she asked me questions.
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: Elena asked, why asking questions like that to shame me,
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: to you Millia, to make me look like a fluozy.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: But you know, it made no sense. Why is she
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: asking me about my lovers when they say he wasn't
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: even there, when they say it didn't even happen. So
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: the minute she's starting to ask me about my lovers,
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: I know that she knows that she knows he was
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: there right at Bourg views. So that really the absurdity
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: of the truph. So the book is comic, a high
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: comp high comedy, because it's absurd. If he wasn't there,
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: why are they asking me why I didn't scream? Did
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: that make sense? Didn't make sense? Is it absurd? Yes,
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: is it funny, Yes, it's funny. You know, you don't
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: tear apart a woman, you know, for not screaming when
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: he wasn't there. So yeah, that's why the book is finne.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Right, And the level of like humor that you do
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: put in this does kind of also reflecting like the
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: moments of seeing what's going on that you can't help
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: but just laugh about the absurdity of it all. And
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: that's one of the things that really really push you
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: about in that moment of like you not realizing the
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: ill intent that was about to happen. And we like
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: we talk about this all the time, and we've gotten
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: criticized by listeners, by men specifically saying that we as
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: a host giggle too much because we do talk about
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of serious things, and our response is to
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: kind of laugh at it because we can't do anything else.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: It feels like it feels like if we don't laugh
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: at it, we might fall apart, or it just feels
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: like we have to look at the absurdity beyond what's
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: right in front of us, because if we don't, none
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: of it would make sense. Note that it makes sense anyway,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: but at least we can find a little like calming
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: in laughter, which has a lot.
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: Of their keep it up and keep it up, keep
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: it up there, so one, that's one of our great weapons. Exactly.
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: They don't like to be laughed at. Exactly, keep laughing, ladies,
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: keep laughing, go for it. Keep it up. That you're
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: being criticized as a good sign. That's a good sign.
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: Do not stop with the giggling, and do not stop
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: with the laughing, please, it's a show of strength and confidence.
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: That you can laugh shows that you are not looking
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: dead like you know, what's happening is flattening out the country.
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: Because if you're laughing, that is a good sign. It's
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: a sign of strength. Do not stop it.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Jesus, come on, take this audio clip and put it
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: somewhere in my like affirmations. But this is this is
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: something Trump's lawyer made a big deal about and that
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: they try to try to use against you that you
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: laughed instead of screening. Why do you think they focused
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: so much on that. Maybe you just said it because
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: it is a strength, But why do you think they
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: focused so hard and was hoping that that would discredit
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: you somehow.
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: Well, they've now set winning back fifty years fifty years
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: taking away our rights. So of course their argument is
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: going to come from the seventeenth century or this fifteenth century,
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: or from the Bible. Actually, they're going to go two
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: thousand years back, and I better have being screamed or
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: I'm lying. That is one of the oldest arguments. Actually
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: it's in the Bible. So it's just the Republican way
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: of seeing women. And Joe Takapino in one of the
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: great criminal defense lawyers. He got Asap Rocky Off, he
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: got Michael jacksonall acquitted, he got the Sopranos killer killer Off,
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: he got the guy who bludgeoned Natalie Holloway down in
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: a room, but got him out of jail for like
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: nine years. He's one of the great criminal defense lawyers.
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump of course hires him because Donald Trump Trump
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: has committed a crime, so criminal defense lawyer. And I
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: think that Joe Taccapino was smart enough not to do
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: this old argument because Joe has daughters. Joe knows better.
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: I think Trump was telling him what to argue. I
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: think Trump was telling him from what I hear reported
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: about Trump, you know, telling his a lawyer. Well, actually
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: I heard him every single day telling Elena Hobbitt what
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: to say, what to do. So I think he must
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: have done that with Joe Tacopina, and I think that
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: was Trump's argument. I don't think that was Joe Tacopina's argument.
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: I think Joe Tacopina was doing what his client wanted
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: him to do. They beat up I mean for not
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: going to the police. Oh my god, has he ever
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: met a woman. I mean, a woman knows if she
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: goes to the police, some man may retaliate. Correct, the
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: woman may lose her job. Correct, she may not be
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: able to feed her family. I mean, that's why you
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: don't go to the police. They don't want She doesn't
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: want her family to find out who's the police will
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: be talking to everybody. Her life is basically, you go
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: to the police, forget your life going on ever again.
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: But if you don't go to the police, if you
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: stay quiet, no they don't know about it, and your
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: life can go on. These are the decisions that women
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: are forcing in the making when they're assaulted and then
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: to be banged on for not going to the police.
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: I just I was amazed at the ignorance. But it's
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: not ignorance, it's a you of women.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Right right, And it's still in today with like if
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: she really was scared, if she really did go through
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: these things, you would go to the police and yeah,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: have you seen the police state?
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: They probably wouldn't even taken that case.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: They probably would have just been like, oh, we'll take
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: care of it and let you walked out. Like the
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: amount of like question and especially the fact that it's
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: happening today in nineteen ninety six.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: What were you wearing, what were you doing? Did you
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: go in with him alone?
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Just saying that you were at the store with him
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: would probably be like, no, you don't have a case,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: and I would have dismissed it.
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: There's nothing.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: The minute I read those sentences from him, I was angry.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: I was like, what the hell are you talking about?
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: Do you not know about?
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Like the amount of cases that actually never go in
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: front of the court ever when they are reported.
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: Oh no, it's only out of a thousand cases, it's
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: out of a thousand, it's only that go to trial
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: and the man is convicted. I think a thousand. I
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: think five, Yeah, convicted, I think a single digit number
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: for sure. Yeah, No, it's it's shock.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly exactly which is, which is amazing because we've
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: had episodes when we talked about Me too era, like
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: that's kind of how we started as a duo, talking
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: about you know, triggers and trauma warnings and why things
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: like this, especially in the Me Too era, was important.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: But we also talked about the importance of civil lawsuits
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: and how they are most of the time the only
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: way to get any justice anyway. In the sexual assault cases,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: they're sexual haress.
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: But nobody has enough money to do the thing.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: And they don't even know how to do that.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so much to that conversation about why and
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: then also just in the like ideal of suing immediately
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: gets pitched as she's a gold digger, she's a money
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: immediately immediately, but like a case like yours has changed
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: the trajectory, especially with you being so loud about how
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: this is about reclaiming my name and how important that is.
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: Just alone, that was really the only thing, and in
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: the end it did. It did as Robbie ke and
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: figure out it would hurt him to give a bunch
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: of money, right, particularly if we gave the money away
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: to help women.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Exactly the fact that he's losing on such a large platform,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: large scale is beautiful to see because it takes more
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: and more to be like to see. No people are
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: understanding how bad this really was and the fact that
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: he can't let it go is also something that shows
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: like how much of an ego and the sociopathy is.
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's impossible for women because difficult to sue a
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: powerful man because a powerful man will always be believed
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: over the woman, always, always, in every situation. Then if
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: she decides to sue him, he will sue her back
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: for defamation for millions of dollars. Then the woman gets
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: frightened because she does not have millions of dollars, and
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: she will you know, it's that's what's that's why this
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: doesn't happen unless you have somebody, unless you run into
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: George Conway at a party, unless you could. You know,
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: it's really because Donald Trump and my friend who I
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: told almost immediately after the attack, Carol Martin, the great
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: New York's anchor woman who's an icon in New York.
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: Tacopina beat up on her bad. Don't beat up on
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: Carol Martin. Don't put Carol Martin on the stand. No,
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: do not do that. Do not put Carol Martin on
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: the stand he walked in at anyway, she was a
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: woman that I told almost immediately afterwards, and she said,
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: don't go to the police. He's got two hundred lawyers.
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: He will bury you. Yeah, So Tacopina course had to
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: ask her all about that. But uh, yeah, it's just
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: that men had lawyers. Women don't have lawyers. Unless you're
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: Cheryl Shamburg or somebody, you may have a lawyer or two.
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: But so it's a hard situation. It's a hard situation.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: It is, and one of the things that was in
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: the book frustrating, but also I think all of us
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: we're living through this right now, is that it's not
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: a surprise. We've seen this pattern of behavior with Trump.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: He pretty much told us in the infamous Access Hollywood tape,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: like what kind of person he is? When I was
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: reading your book, and I was like, no, I've heard
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: about that case.
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: I didn't realize that.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: Like I was like, oh my gosh, we know this
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: about him, And it's just it wasn't enough to prevent
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: him from becoming president twice, and so it can feel
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: very disheartening. But you did win against him.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: Twice, Like that's right, that's right, baby. So how did
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: it feel?
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: I know you talked about it in the book, but
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: how did that feel when you were waiting for the
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: verdicts and then after you got the.
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: Verdicts, well, waiting for the verdicte, I felt sort of
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: the weight. Well, first of all, it's impossible, but I
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: feel the weight of all And I know many of
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: these are the twenty three, the twenty seven to forty
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: three women who all have said come forward. It's not
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: just me, not just the access how I would taking,
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: it's all the other women who've accused him. So I
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: felt that. But the waiting, it's impossible to win a
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: sexual assault case because there's no witnesses. We happen to
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: have a lot of witnesses. Then we went out, the
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: jury left. Judge Lewis a Kaplan who should be on
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: the Sistine Chapel as God himself. One of the most
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: terrifying men I have ever seen in my life. Conservative
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: by the book Break No Rules. In his courtroom, he
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: and a Lina Hobba. Oh my god, he actually said,
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: right before the jury went out, uh bringing them missus Habba,
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: you are within minutes of going to lock up because
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: she she actually asked him. She said, your honor, I
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: don't like to be spoken to that way. To Judge
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: Leuis anyway, So when the jury goes out and you've
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: presented your case in the first one, in the first trial,
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: where we worked so hard and prepared so hard, we
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: actually presented a very strong case. But Takapina is one
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: of the great attorneys in the country and very persuasive
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: with a jury, very peruisive. However, our jury was not
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: a Manhattan jury, even though you'll read it a thousand
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: million times on Twitter they wanted New York the Manhattan year. No,
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: it was an upstate jury full of people from the
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: Trump counties. Robbie tried to get one of them taken
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: off the jury because he was such a follower of
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: Tim Poole as a conservative who had actually talked about
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: me several times on his podcast, and one of the
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: liar I was on Robbie trying to get Judge Katherln
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: here again he follows the rule. Judge Kaplan had a
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: private interview with this jury and said, can you fairly
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: render a bridique in this case? And the man said
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: yes he could. Judge Caplin says he stays on the jury,
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: so we really thought we were going to get a
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: hung jury. We've got trumpers on the jury, and we
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: had exactly the kind of jury that we didn't want.
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: We had six men, and they're the guys who all
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: said that she's too ugly in the mock trial, and
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: we had three women. So it was pretty terrifying. So
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: we go out at lunchtime. We're in a big, marble,
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: beautiful room where we were waiting. Your voice echoes gorgeous,
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: is in the Federal Court Room, which is the Mother Court.
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: We're in the Mother Court of the United States of America,
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: the first court that held session even before the Supreme Court.
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: So it's really it's a historic place. And I'm a
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: wreck and I keep asking This team of attorneys is
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: just brilliant, and I keep asking each one when do
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: you think the jury will come back? And it was
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: obvious that they had eleven questions to answer in this trial.
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: Eleven questions. So my team, the entire team, believed that
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: would take days. And the team was, uh, not only
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: thought it would, they were certain of it because my
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: team had the team was so brilliant. We had uh
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: a clerk for just Justice Ruth bader Ginsburg. We had
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: one of the clerks for just as Kennedy. We had
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: a clerk for the Who's now clerking was so my ore.
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: This is the level of the team we had, and
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: there their things. A genie's gonna take days. Just go
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: calm down. So I went into our little witness room.
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: I was taking a nap and bang the door opens,
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: ferd Exa in I, well, can you imagine I'm nearly
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: had a heart attack? Days and days? Is going to
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: take days and days? I got a loving questions to answer.
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: Are they have to take days and day? You? And
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: the man who opened the door was the Duke of Ferrara,
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: Mike Farra, the great Mike Fharra, who presented our case
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: so perfectly, and who wrung the jury's heart. Man, he
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: you know, just banged on them because Takapter kept saying,
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: because I laughed, because I went to a couple of
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: parties that I couldn't have been sexually sauld. Mike Ferrara
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: had lost his wife to cancer, and he said, when
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: something bad happens in your life, just that mean you
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: can't go on with your life. You can't go on
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: and enjoy your life. Can't. You can't. Can't go on
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: with your career and go to work. You can't go
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: on with it. Uh what does is that? What is
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: that what Joe Tacopina is saying.
• 59:10
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: So his final argument was it was brilliant. So he's
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: the one who opens on and he looks frightened to death.
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: And when I saw that, the Duke of rar looked frightened,
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: I mean I was seized with terror. So we staggered
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: back in the courtroom and Judge Katherlin said, had you
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: chosen a leader? And the woman stands up, one of
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: the three women, So that was a good sign, and
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: the verdict came in. It was, without a doubt, the
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: happiest moment of my life. It was you could feel
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: the people in the courtroom just a sind with joy.
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: And I understand that news whipped around the world boom boom, boom.
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: And there was an off Broadway play in production at
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: the time and in a very serious scene and from
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: what I hear, and a producer ran out on stage
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: said Carol One, and everything stopped and the house lights
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: flashed on and off. That's what it was like in
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: New York. Now, it was it was impossible. We did it.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: It was incredible. And Robbie and I were in the
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: car after the great win, you know, making our way
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: through the press and the white balls and everything. We
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: got in the car. We went through Chinatown and then
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: up through Soho and then through the village, and Robbie's
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: on her phone just yacking her brains out, calling everybody
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: she knows, getting congratulations over there. And I'm sitting in
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: the other corner of the car looking out and I'm thinking,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump, this is your town, baby, and I just
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: beat Thish daddy. So it was. It was incredible. It
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: was incredibly right.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: I love so much of this And honestly, one of
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: the things that we were told that we need to
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: ask you about why you're fabulous, But honestly, just in
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: the first ten minutes, I kind of knew why you're fabulous,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: just from your book.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: I absolutely know why you're fabulous.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: And I want to like just bathe in your aura
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: because it is fabulous.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: Okay, I want that to be noted.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: But also you kind of already mentioned this earlier, and
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: I think it's important because this good closure to this
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: interview is you were awarded five million in the first trial,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: and then eighty three point three million in a second.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: But as you had eluded, this wasn't for you, it
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: was for women, It.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: Was for the victims. It was for those who are survivors.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: Can you kind of talk about with getting this money,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: what you're going to do with it?
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: Well, I love to talk about it, but it's changing
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: every day when I think. You know, when I first started,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: I thought, we'll get women's reproduction right back, That's how
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: we're going to spend the money. And now every day
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: there's some sort of tragic development with the immigrants and
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: with the arts, and with everything being taken away so rapidly.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: I just don't know what. It's just going to have
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: to We're going have to see, we're going to have
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: to take a look see where it can best be spent.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: What do you think, What do you think?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: God, a chunk of it goes to the lawyers. Of course,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: of course they deserve it.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's tricky it all. I guess it
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: would also depend, as you're saying, we are living in
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: a very rapidly changing environment. So when you actually get it, yeah,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: and looking at where it could be best implemented. But
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: as you said, like I do love the idea of
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: giving it to things Trump hates.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: That's a very fun if he hates it. If he
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: hates it, that's what I was going to give it.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: I think definitely you got to go for like the
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: queer community as well as a reproductive community as well
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: as sexual assault survivors, Like those three are a really
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: good way because obviously those are things that he absolutely have.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: That's part of the reason he won with the immigration
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: as well, Like those are the things he went on,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: so going after things that he's trying to disassemble.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 4: Right, I think on the cake, Yeah, particularly when you
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 4: think that you know the numbers of women who have
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: been sexual assault, because he was so high sky high
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: that people don't even can't even begin to grasp how
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: many people. I mean, because number one, there reporting is
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: not that's not accurate.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: Oh no, And like just recently when we were talking
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: about DEI and the fact that he's like, oh, this
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: is all DEI. But the actuality is it actually hurts
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: nonprofits like violence shelters, sexual assault, assault awareness stuff like
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: those things that people were like adamantly like, yes, we
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: need to help women who are in domestic violent situations.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: We need a god, yes, but.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: They don't care enough to see that those other things
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: that they think is happening is actually taking money away
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: from that.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: So stuff like that.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: It's definitely so I am.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: I'm an old lady. I beat Donald Trump twice. So
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: it makes no sense to me that the Ivy League
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: universities and the big media companies and the big corporations
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: have been in the need of Downald Trump because they're
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: fighting him. I don't that. I don't understand. So what
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: I'm worried about is if they're worried, this is why
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: people across the land are being quiet and aren't moving,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: aren't standing up, are raising their voices because he's got
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: everybody boguarded. Right, So I'm going back to one of
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: the oldest things mankind. It's an old old idea, older
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: than actually older than mankind. It's called signaling. When a
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: population is being attacked or oppressed, there are ways for
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: individuals to signal their support from one another. Right, we
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: don't have that signal. MAGA has the red hats, we
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: don't have them. So I suggest that we all take
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: an item which can picklocks, which can open handcuffs, which
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: when straightened out, becomes a lethal weapon, which stands for
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 4: holding things together and unity. I'm suggesting we all start
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: wearing the paper clip as a signal of our support
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: for the anti trumpers as against the president. I it's
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: very simple, So I wearing this paper clip. We all
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: put on a paper clip. We can see our sisters
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: and brothers who are also not liking what's going on
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: in the country. We don't have the Maga hat, but
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: we have this sly, subtle, sneaky and at work. If
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: you're going to get in trouble, put it on your
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: pantcuff or put it on your strap for your bag.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: What do you think.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: I like it multifunctional, that's going to be.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: Well, Samantha. I want you to start wearing it right
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 4: now and and when you start wearing it, because we
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 4: need influencers to do it, and you too, got a
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 4: lot of influence. So if you will every day put
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: on a paper clip. You got one at home, You
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: probably got one there where you are and behind you.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: I know you've got a paper clip in there somewhere.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: That's the question.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: It's a mess back there.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: I think the paper clup. We need to recognize each
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: other and this is just subtle. You know, we got
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: start doing it. I like it and for your listeners,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: clip it on, babes, clip it on. You know.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: I'm also really mad that Donald Trump ruined red hats.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: Yea, even if it doesn't.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: Even if it doesn't say and I'm like, this isn't fair.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: He shouldn't have gotten to do this.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: He ruined the whole thing.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: He actually ruined the American flag too, to be fair,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: so he's.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: Not ruining the paper clip. This is a big This
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: is a big symbol from the World War Two. Yeah,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: this is what they wore to show resistance to the
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: Nazi occupation and wore paper clips. Sell. Let's do it.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I like it.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: Another thing I have to ask you, because you do like,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: what is it about podcasts that you like? Because you
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: mentioned it before as being a powerful tool, and why
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: do you have one?
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: St No, No, I'm a good guest, but I'm not
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: a host. I don't know.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: You have your whole column that was asked. So I
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: think I think you need to do a podcast. People
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: asking you questions come on once a week, once a week.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: I couldn't, I couldn't you know what you started at
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: the top, and you were asking those questions are there?
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: You're already there.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 4: I can't no, no, But I love the guests. I
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: love being a guest. I could not do it. First
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 4: of all, Almost half the questions that I answered in
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: the twenty some thirty years of writing an advice I changed. Now.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: They just we could revisit those questions.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: Not me, man, no, no, I'm out of the advice business.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 4: And all I say now is yeah, do it?
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: Hey, that might be exactly what we need that or
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: the fabulousness are you telling us?
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, do this?
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: Do it?
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: Joy mankind, do it?
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 5: Do it?
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: That's it, that's all. Yeah, that's all we need to do.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good podcast. I'm just there.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: Well, let us know if you decided to do it. Yes, and.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: Always, always, always, we would love to have you back.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: There's so much we'd like to talk about.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: You guys are ass when you are a delight? Where
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: can the good listeners find you? You've got a lot
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: going on, a lot of books on the podcast. Well,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: first of all, where can they find you? Because they
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 4: can't find me unless they can find you, So where
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 4: are they finding you?
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: That's it. I feel like I've been a kind some
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: kind of mind trap question, because if they're not listening,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: I know what's even happening now, Well, listeners, you can
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: find EJ. Carrol on a wonderful episode of stuff I've
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: Never told you, which is available wherever you get your podcasts.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: That's it that you can give me on the bookstore,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: not my type and on substack e gen Girl subset.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: Yes the world is on substack. Now are you guys
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 4: on subseack?
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: Not yet?
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: What podcast?
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: Every day?
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: You literally do not have time to be on substack.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 4: You don't have time.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 6: She has two podcasts, so I know that that crazy
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 6: and I understand it.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: I'm with you. Well, you had to be very good
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: at it, so you do what you're good at. That's
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 4: so do two of them. Hell yeah, yeah, you do
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: two of them. That's good. So this is good. So
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: you'll you'll you'll call me anytime please if.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: You give us that invitational Billy you want to call
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: him this month? What about this month? So don't don't
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: open it too high because I'm gonna need to be
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: in your fabulousness.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: Oh, thank thank you, thank you thing. And also you
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: get a fifth time you got you're on here every day.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: It's more than just that, but yes, true, so much more.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: being here.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 4: It's been a delight, it's been amazing, it's been fabulous.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 4: Thank you so again.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: Please go check out Eugene Carrol and this book. It's
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: it's really really fantastic and her writing style is really wonderful,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: So go check it out. If you would like to contact.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 4: Us, you can.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: You can email us at Hello at stuff Onennever Told
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: You dot com. You can also find us on Blue
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Sky at also Podcasts, or on Instagram and TikTok at
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: stuff I Never Told You. We're us on YouTube and
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: we have a new place you can get merch called
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: Cotton Bureau, so check that out, and we have a
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: buck you can get where you get your books. Thanks
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: as always to our super producer Chestine or executive producer
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: and a contributor Joey. Thank you, and thanks to you
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: for listening. Stuff I Never Told You is production by
• 1:12:25
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• 1:12:27
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  Speaker 2: if you listen to your favorite shows