Latest / Kyle Meredith With... / Documentarian Amy Berg on Capturing the Myth and Humanity of Jeff Buckley in It’s Never Over

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Documentarian Amy Berg on Capturing the Myth and Humanity of Jeff Buckley in It’s Never Over · Kyle Meredith With...

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[SPEAKER_02]: That's me, Kyle Meredith.
1:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Today, my guest, Amy Berg, you know her as the documentary behind deliverous from evil.
1:56
[SPEAKER_02]: The corruption in West of Memphis, the slow motion collapse of Janis Joplin in Little Girl Blue, and now she's turns her lens on Jeff Buckley.
2:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a new documentary called It's Never Over, Jeff Buckley.
2:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And Amy and I are going to explore the legacy of the Grace Singer.
2:14
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, Amy is going to discuss why I took over a decade to bring the film to life, earning the trust of Jeff's mother, and choosing to frame the story through Jeff's emotional voicemails, feminist ideals, and the women in his life, rather than the looming shadow of his father, Tim Buckley.
2:31
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about the enduring power of Jeff's voice.
2:35
[SPEAKER_02]: The misunderstood brilliance of sketches for my sweetheart, the drunk, the album that was never finished.
2:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And the emotional toll of telling the story that still hits so many listeners at a sold-deep level, myself included.
2:48
[SPEAKER_02]: She's also going to tease some bonus footage, the possibility of a future biopic, and that she's working on a Chris Cornell documentary.
2:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, stick around after this interview.
3:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to include a bonus interview with Jeff's former manager, Dave Lori, that we recorded back in the in twenty eighteen.
3:06
[SPEAKER_02]: But let's jump into it talking about the documentary.
3:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It's never over Jeff Buckley.
3:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Meredith with Amy Berg.
3:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
3:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's casual this documentary.
3:16
[SPEAKER_02]: My wife and I were watching it together.
3:17
[SPEAKER_02]: She was crying before the credits were over.
3:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Friends, I've had friends talking about that too.
3:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, because I've been recommended to to to to anyone like that it's coming that you need to see it when it comes out.
3:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And I had a friend that said, you know, when when Jeff thought they died, it hit me so hard that I just don't think I'll be able to.
3:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And I said, no, no, you're going to cry.
3:39
[SPEAKER_02]: That's for certain.
3:40
[SPEAKER_02]: But my God, what a beautiful beautiful telling that you've done here.
3:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Congratulations.
3:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much.
3:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it means a lot to me.
3:49
[SPEAKER_04]: The film means so much to me too, so.
3:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So I know, I've read the bio on this.
3:55
[SPEAKER_02]: You've been working on it long.
3:56
[SPEAKER_02]: You've been trying to work on it for a long time.
3:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did it take so long to tell this story?
4:02
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it comes down to trust.
4:04
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I've wanted Final Cut and Mary and I've been discussing it since like, two thousand nine I think.
4:12
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's like, and she just feels ready.
4:15
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's hard.
4:16
[SPEAKER_04]: It's hard to let go of this for her, obviously, because there's only gonna be like one time this is gonna happen.
4:23
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think she felt ready.
4:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still surprising.
4:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, I know there's personal.
4:29
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the goes alone.
4:30
[SPEAKER_02]: As you're saying, especially, you know, big mom and she's in here and everything.
4:36
[SPEAKER_02]: this story.
4:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But I guess that's, to me, that's almost still surprising.
4:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm glad you waited until you did it the way you wanted to do it.
4:44
[SPEAKER_02]: But for this, this, I want to say the character of Jeff Buckley, right?
4:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there is this mythical thing that because it's been so huge and geez, the way the Halloween cover took off, especially in the last twenty years.
4:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, I guess that leads to the next part.
5:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, so, so you finally get to do it.
5:03
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the story that you want to tell?
5:04
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the, what's the angle?
5:05
[SPEAKER_02]: If that's
5:07
[SPEAKER_04]: been easy way to pass that well I was first of all I heard that voice mail messages many years ago and I was drawn to those just they they were so emotional and they made me cry multiple times so I always wanted to incorporate the mother son relationship I'm a mother of a son and I you know I really can relate to like
5:30
[SPEAKER_04]: the challenges that are faced in that situation.
5:35
[SPEAKER_04]: And I also, it was like right in the middle of Trump's presidency and there was like the women's march conversation was front and center.
5:49
[SPEAKER_04]: right when I got the the actual rights to the film and I just remember there's this one interview with a Canadian journalist.
5:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Where Jeff just is speaking the same feminist language that like the women who are running the women's march we're speaking and I you know it's
6:08
[SPEAKER_04]: five and so it's just kind of like he was the original feminist and I remember as a huge Jeff Buckley fan myself and my twenties just remember that it was only cool to like Jeff Buckley if you were a girl or if you were gay basically so like now all of a sudden there's all these men that are like feeling empowered by the fact that you know it's okay to be vulnerable it's okay to be emotional it's okay to
6:33
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, be Jeff Buckley.
6:35
[SPEAKER_04]: So it just feels like the right way to tell the story.
6:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
6:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
6:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And further that, I mean, because the way this story is told, like he is, he's way more defined by the women in his life.
6:51
[SPEAKER_04]: then the guy and of course we were we mean Tim buckley at this point of course yeah I mean it's that the narrative of you know his father being this very successful kind of cult figure in music and only meeting him once and then having to step into situations like interviews where he was being referred to as Tim buckley son when
7:15
[SPEAKER_04]: he really didn't feel like Tim Buckley's son.
7:18
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think he grappled with that and he ultimately felt that the thing he did inherit from his father wasn't that horrible.
7:26
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, he was like, I think he finally acknowledged the fact that, you know, getting coming from the, he talks about the men and the family and how they all pass this voice down.
7:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I think he embraced that eventually.
7:38
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, it's not easy for him for sure.
7:41
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a really powerful moment and I say this having been in a few awkward interview moments in my life or the interview just brings up right away and man does he shut it down.
7:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I forget what he says but like the only time I think about him is when you ask me.
7:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Totally, next question.
7:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, there was even like, there was this BBC radio did something many years ago with his, one of his managers that wrote a book about him and they talked about this, this taxi, they were late to an interview in London in London traffic and the taxi and he could hear the DJ talking about
8:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Tim Buckley's son is on his way over here, and he literally was so angry by the time he got to the interview.
8:24
[SPEAKER_04]: You could tell that he was just so annoyed by this.
8:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I can't imagine what it must have been like.
8:31
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like just salt on the wound every day.
8:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and especially, you know, when people don't know the backstory and I'm not trying to make apologies for the interview, is there anything like that?
8:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Read the room, right?
8:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
8:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, we're faced with those moments a lot.
8:49
[SPEAKER_02]: When you have legacy acts and everything and how it must feel, I guess.
8:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's kind of crazy to consider Jeff a napo baby like in that way because he's like, he didn't get those benefits.
9:01
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, he didn't really get those benefits.
9:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You say in your right up that Jeff's main challenge in life was his gift, though.
9:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it wasn't.
9:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Tim wasn't the main challenge.
9:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess is what I'm getting at.
9:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it was his gift.
9:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I'd love for you to talk about that because that's a really powerful line in itself.
9:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a great thing to pick up on because Jeff was
9:24
[SPEAKER_04]: a harsh critic of himself and of everybody else.
9:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And he knew he was great, but he didn't really accept that he was great.
9:34
[SPEAKER_04]: He knew what greatness was, and he really was hard on himself about that, because it had to be perfect.
9:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And obviously he lived through so many things that we all migrated towards and great.
9:48
[SPEAKER_04]: So those are his personal life experiences.
9:50
[SPEAKER_04]: He wasn't just like,
9:52
[SPEAKER_04]: writing stories that he was making up.
9:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Those were like those were his real emotions and so I think like it's hard to put yourself on display like that.
10:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And he was, but he was also able to capture the emotion through his voice of people, other people's words, which is like so unique, you know, and beautiful.
10:12
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm working on another documentary right now.
10:15
[SPEAKER_04]: And somebody, I was interviewing someone the other day and they were talking about how some singers become method actors when they perform.
10:24
[SPEAKER_04]: And I couldn't help but to think that that's what Jeff's, you know, that's what he drew from.
10:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting because my entry to Jeff's music was through Chris Cornell.
10:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And I grew up very much in the middle of Kentucky where I didn't even pick up on Jeff until he was already gone right after and Chris was releasing you for you morning.
10:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think he was doing an interview and it's interesting what you're talking about because because Chris talked about that a lot as well about how when people latched on to certain things about him, he felt like he had to play into that's like for those two voices to have met each other and been so close to each other.
11:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's so weird that you just said that because the person I interviewed was Alan Johannes about you for a morning and Chris is
11:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I've been ready to do that.
11:10
[SPEAKER_04]: That's crazy that you just said that.
11:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
11:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
11:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So now you know what my next film is.
11:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I got to I got to know Chris a little bit and and do some interviews with him and and and and it is like
11:26
[SPEAKER_02]: When I look back on it, I guess that's my way, even to look back at Jeff's music and stuff because they shared so much.
11:36
[SPEAKER_04]: The percolation is kind of what I've noticed with both of those artists, but especially with Jeff with Grace, is that his life just had to see Ben and as it see Ben, he came up with phrases and musical phrases and lyrical phrases, and I think it all is just part of being a sponge for life and trauma.
11:56
[SPEAKER_04]: pain and joy, you know, he was definitely not, um, he was bullied at school.
12:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, he was made fun of for being small and being feminine and all those things and it turned out that those are the things that made him into the straight artist.
12:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, and we'll be right back right after this.
12:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back.
12:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Meredith with Amy Berg.
12:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So what was your entry?
12:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I was working like I was in the music scene heavily in the music scene in the nineties and I was like very much into sound garden and you know everybody else around that period I worked at SST records actually as a teenager.
12:38
[SPEAKER_04]: But I just you know and I had the same mentality that every musical person of that era can relate to of that just like
12:49
[SPEAKER_04]: just like it was just balls to the wall and like you had to see every single live gig you can never miss anything was like a kind of high octane thing and then I was introduced to his music and it was like I don't know it just cut right through all of that noise and it just like made me like feel in a different way and it was like game over that was my go to you know it was just
13:12
[SPEAKER_04]: It's amazing.
13:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was saying this to somebody else earlier today that, you know, I was surprised when I started talking to some of these like punk bands from New York of the era of Jeff's exact era because that Saint Mark's place and the, you know, Laurie said was all like really hard.
13:32
[SPEAKER_04]: punk at the time.
13:34
[SPEAKER_04]: That's not that's not the right term for it.
13:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you know it?
13:36
[SPEAKER_04]: There was a there was like a it's not straight edge but there was something like I can't remember the term of this type of New York punk rock.
13:45
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway they were all like they loved Jeff and it's just it's kind of interesting you know it was like he kind of gave everyone permission to be a certain way.
13:55
[SPEAKER_04]: So so that's my
13:59
[SPEAKER_04]: And I similarly, you know, I didn't expect Jeff to die so young obviously and I had it I had my son in nineteen ninety seven in the in the end of January and I remember when Jeff went missing it was like it was just
14:15
[SPEAKER_04]: it was horrible and I was just we didn't have like as much of an internet at the time.
14:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it was very early days and I was just like waiting and following that story and I just never really got over it.
14:27
[SPEAKER_04]: So this film has helped me in that way too.
14:31
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, like help others heal and offer something that we've had to leave behind.
14:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it says because there's magic in that record.
14:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's why we all
14:43
[SPEAKER_02]: grabbed on so hard.
14:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I talk with, I know Mike Doty and I need a friend go really well, and of course they came out of that scene.
14:53
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, for that to be something special like I love them and I love them by the way, but there's something else that you get with Jeff music that no one in that scene had yet.
15:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, which is why it sticks, you know, that's why like last week, you know, there was a billboard, Grace entered billboard for the first time in thirty years at one, ninety eight.
15:17
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, there's a reason it sticks.
15:19
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just songs or
15:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they don't really leave you.
15:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So the magic in that record as we feel that magic in that record, but the way you tell the story.
15:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's it can.
15:31
[SPEAKER_02]: What is their danger in deflating the magic by showing how the sausage is made, I guess.
15:35
[SPEAKER_04]: That's why it took me so long, but that's why it took me so long, honestly, because I wanted to make a film that was equivalent to the feeling that you get when you listen to grace, and that is a high bar I know, and I'm not saying I achieved that, but I want people to feel that way that
15:52
[SPEAKER_04]: people of our age felt in the nineties when he was able to like encompass whatever the pain or joy or whatever it was that we were experiencing.
16:03
[SPEAKER_04]: So I wanted to do that with the film and it took a long time and it took a lot of editing and a few editors and it was like peeling the layers out and massaging and then sitting you know out of the edit for a couple months waiting to see like how things could
16:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we went, the production went down.
16:23
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, we would go down and come back up.
16:25
[SPEAKER_04]: We needed time to digest it.
16:27
[SPEAKER_04]: And my producers were so amazing to allow that process to happen in that way.
16:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And to still allow that magic to be there.
16:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I almost thought at one point like it's almost unfair to think of him as supernatural because he worked so hard at those films.
16:42
[SPEAKER_04]: totally and you'd like to think like you know you'll know when you're done and but the truth is after going through this experience I don't think that's true because I feel like I could make it way better if I had another like six months or whatever there's always more that you could do you know but depth is like that you know I also do love that you hit on my sweetheart the drunk there I mean of course you're telling the whole story that you have to I am I did have I've had Dave Lori on here before and and I remember him telling me
17:12
[SPEAKER_02]: He never thought that should have been released when I couldn't disagree more because I'm like even as fragmented and maybe demoish as it was at the state even that is still a magical record.
17:25
[SPEAKER_02]: That is still an amazing, you know.
17:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Totally and good for you for saying that because I didn't get it until I got into Jeff's
17:35
[SPEAKER_04]: whole you know ora and i think that you have to understand where he was at to understand the music a little bit better and i think that's what happened as i was making it i kind of felt like i could understand and love that record much more you know yes some of those moments which is rave i mean that's uh
17:55
[SPEAKER_02]: everybody here once, of course, all that stuff.
17:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I was trying to remember, what's it there at the moment?
17:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Because now I've been a couple of weeks since I watched the documentary, but I've seen well, which is right because he had a dream.
18:05
[SPEAKER_02]: about the devil, was that it?
18:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
18:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
18:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
18:09
[SPEAKER_02]: What was the story on that?
18:10
[SPEAKER_04]: He was being visited by the devil.
18:12
[SPEAKER_04]: And he had a dream also that he had a brain tumor around that time.
18:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And when we were on shooting in his area on his street, people would talk about the ghost stories on that block.
18:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's a lot of Memphis lore that was seeping into that album, which I think is what makes it cool and moody and dark.
18:33
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's what he was into at the time.
18:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there bonus footage?
18:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe.
18:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe.
18:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think so.
18:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I think he'll be hearing about that soon.
18:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
18:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, you know, so there's the part the other part of the story is, I think you'd said, you know, Jess Mom originally wanted this to be a biopic.
18:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Wanted this to be a movie and that wasn't the way to go.
18:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And now that you've told this story, like, do you think there is a biopic that can be done out there?
19:02
[SPEAKER_04]: I think so.
19:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the way the reaction we're getting already before even releasing the film, I think people want more and more.
19:08
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, who knows?
19:11
[SPEAKER_04]: It's hard for me to imagine who would play Jeff, but there are some people that you know that she's been talking to.
19:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Who knows?
19:19
[SPEAKER_04]: It's possible.
19:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we always say that, right?
19:22
[SPEAKER_02]: That's big shoes to fill.
19:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Timothy, fantastic job is Dylan.
19:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the great.
19:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And I haven't seen Jeremy do Springsteen yet, but the preview looks pretty good.
19:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, okay, happy done.
19:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Those are two amazing actors.
19:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
19:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, we'll see.
19:40
[SPEAKER_04]: You never, somebody.
19:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you never know.
19:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, in the meantime, this, the whole story, the whole way you've done it.
19:46
[SPEAKER_02]: The animation, I didn't even hit on that.
19:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like everything is so good.
19:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so, I got nothing but compliments for you.
19:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Really congratulations on this.
19:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much.
19:57
[SPEAKER_02]: That was pleasure talking to you.
19:59
[SPEAKER_04]: You too, thanks Kyle.
20:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And we'll be right back right after this.
20:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back, it's Kyle.
20:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Man, if now I want to do a little part two here, it was back in, twenty eighteen that I spoke with Dave Lori.
20:13
[SPEAKER_02]: He had the unenviable job of managing a genius who didn't want to be managed and wrote the book Jeff Buckley from Hallelujah to the last goodbye.
20:23
[SPEAKER_02]: where, Jeff's former manager, Dave Lori finally told his side, after at that point like two decades of silence, the book walks through the brief chaotic, transcendent career of Jeff Buckley from signing the deal to Grace's cult ascent to that terrible call that he got in nineteen ninety seven.
20:43
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, Dave Lori was the guy who had to identify Jeff's body.
20:47
[SPEAKER_02]: He was also the guy who saw the warning signs that others either missed or ignored.
20:52
[SPEAKER_02]: This isn't a mythology.
20:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the industry version of the story with the heartbreak of someone who couldn't save the artist that he believed in most.
21:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to include that here.
21:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Since we're talking about Jeff from a twenty eighteen interview talking about the book Jeff Buckley from Halleluja to the last goodbye.
21:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Meredith with Dave Lori.
21:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm good Kyle yourself.
21:14
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about this.
21:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So you've got this really amazing account.
21:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Your book, Jeff Buckley from Haliluia to Alaska by which is an incredible read.
21:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm guessing the reason it took you this long to do it is because it was a difficult book.
21:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to arrive on an anniversary of his passing, right?
21:32
[SPEAKER_00]: That's correct.
21:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It was very difficult.
21:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously the first chapter was a death chapter and I had an open up the boxes for twenty years or nineteen years.
21:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It took me two years to write it.
21:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And my wife was his promotion manager in Europe.
21:44
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how we met.
21:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So I went in the back porch and started writing with death chapters.
21:48
[SPEAKER_00]: They wanted him to cry for three days and realize that I had not bereaved.
21:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the book itself was very therapeutic.
21:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Do like reading about your in Jeff's first meeting together, you know, the coffee shop and everything and he's late.
22:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I think most people will, you know, if they're not familiar with Jeff's background, they're going to find it maybe surprising that the two of you bonded over like eighty style metal rights.
22:15
[SPEAKER_00]: That's correct.
22:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's working like the fact I was a term manager for a lot of big metal bands in the eighties and the decadence.
22:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he was a big metal fan.
22:23
[SPEAKER_00]: He'd go from metal to Pakistani singers to eat with P.O.F.
22:27
[SPEAKER_00]: He was all over the place.
22:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I've ever heard of more if I just imagined it.
22:30
[SPEAKER_02]: He ever done any early recordings in that style because of my head he had, but maybe he hadn't.
22:35
[SPEAKER_00]: No, he really didn't.
22:37
[SPEAKER_00]: He did do some in L.A.
22:40
[SPEAKER_00]: prior to grace, but there were unfinished demos.
22:43
[SPEAKER_00]: He did about four songs, but he didn't even have a demo tape to send a record company.
22:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It was all to live.
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: He brought the whole time everything he did.
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Most people have a demo tape to send up to the record company when they come down the show.
22:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just the word of mouth.
22:57
[SPEAKER_00]: People thought there was a religious experience.
23:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So by that time, you know, hearing that live, what became the live EP, do you think he'd really found his voice at that point or was he still searching?
23:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was going to do something completely different.
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: He was not going to stay in one lane very long.
23:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I'm a big fan of my sweetheart the drunkers.
23:24
[SPEAKER_02]: We hear it now sketches of my sweetheart the drunk.
23:27
[SPEAKER_02]: How close was that to the final version that you're aware of?
23:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the night he disappeared in Mississippi River was the night the band came in to start two weeks of rehearsal before any walls went in the studio with him.
23:40
[SPEAKER_00]: They weren't even close when he gave me that cassette.
23:44
[SPEAKER_00]: The day he left, two weeks before he died.
23:46
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, this isn't finished.
23:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're not going to put the color in it.
23:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's amazing because as, you know, if that had been released, let's just say, you know, and it was released in that way.
23:57
[SPEAKER_02]: But even if that had been official, that sounds to me so complete.
24:00
[SPEAKER_02]: That says so much about how good he was just at the early process, I guess, right?
24:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Jeff was a composer.
24:07
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't the technical songwriter.
24:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So, we used to talk, you know, how do you write sergeant peppers or write at the opera by queen?
24:15
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the relayers of sound that went into those records.
24:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how, if you listen to Grace, it's the same way.
24:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So, he would have put all that in in the color.
24:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's, you know, those singles on there, uh, songs that could have been singles, uh, everybody here wants you.
24:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that was a hit.
24:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's on that record.
24:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was going to say sweetheart, the drunk is a very different record from grace, but that song seems to be the perfect bridge.
24:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It would have been huge.
24:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would have been.
24:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know your involvement is specifically with that record afterwards, because I know there was some legal battles with this family and everything, but was there talk of ever really pushing that as a proper album?
24:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was fired pretty much, as they in our guy in Andy Walls, we were all fired within a few months.
25:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I was probably too close because he told me it was not finished.
25:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Give me all the music from the road.
25:06
[SPEAKER_00]: The last time you don't let someone get it.
25:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a protection that you have as a manager of your client.
25:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to get artists that he was friends with like Chris Cornell, page and plan, Patty Smith, Elvis Costello, people like that to do those songs.
25:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And to let that go to a larger audience.
25:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there was a live record recorded on the last
25:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I was checking the last tour, but Australia, and it was the last life, and you proved he makes it a master that I wanted that to come out next, but everybody had a different opinion.
25:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned Chris.
25:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I know they were really close, and he even wrote some liner notes for Sweetheart.
25:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm guessing you were close to Chris too, and having seen that happen in the way that we lost him as well.
25:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's got to be, you know, it's own very tough moment within this Jepp Buckley family.
25:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It was because, you know, I'm writing this book and Chris.
25:55
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, Greg Olman, he died the day before I sung the contract, which I was on the twentyth anniversary of his death with the publisher.
26:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all these deaths were happening.
26:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Chris Dowd says in the book, he's a lead singer, Fishbone was just best friend, and he said music is like a blood sport, and he's right.
26:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Bring up the Greg Almond and the almonds.
26:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you did, you'd came off with working with the almonds with Ronnie Spector to go with someone that while there was a lot of attention, a lot of buzz.
26:24
[SPEAKER_02]: He still pretty much an unknown.
26:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that had to be a hugely buffet three.
26:29
[SPEAKER_02]: You had to have seen it early on.
26:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I did.
26:31
[SPEAKER_00]: If actually, if anybody asked me a question one day, I was teaching a course.
26:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And William Patterson, and he said, how did you pick a stop to work with an artist?
26:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I, I assume they can play their guitar instrument or sing.
26:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It's when they walk in a room, they light it up, they have that it factor.
26:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had that it factor.
26:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't as big an American at the time of his death as he was in a nationally and internationally.
26:54
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a large star.
26:55
[SPEAKER_00]: and giving an example of that his first trip to London on the live it's an AEP before Grace came out.
27:01
[SPEAKER_00]: He did a show called GLR and the next night we were in the small venue just I keep when he was doing engineering in New York and I walked out and there were literally people lined up for a box that couldn't get in and we went and booked two more shows at the height and people just followed him down the street.
27:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just magic.
27:20
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he was the first person to cover Hallelujah, but definitely became the most iconic.
27:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Did that sort of surprise you the long life of that song?
27:30
[SPEAKER_00]: No, in fact, I made a comment when we first went on tour, where he was just doing solo.
27:36
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a lot of resistance.
27:37
[SPEAKER_00]: People didn't understand that, you know, that's when we were running, you know, tongue can hip hop or all happening at the same time.
27:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, you're different, different, good, different will last.
27:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And Andy Wallace is a producer I spoke to you yesterday.
27:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said that he didn't know, Nirvana's album never mind.
27:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said today, people come about Jeff, they don't bring up Nirvana because it's the record's timeless.
28:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's what says it all.
28:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And I did meet Leonard Cohen over in London one day and you know, he said he loved the version.
28:09
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of different versions.
28:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, you'll be reading the book where Nick Cave wants to do holiday and he comes home to about eighty pages of facts that were versus, that's how many versions of it were.
28:21
[SPEAKER_02]: That's incredible.
28:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, for me, I, you know, if I was a musician, I would never touch that song because like that's it.
28:27
[SPEAKER_02]: The most perfect version has ever been done.
28:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Why even try, you know?
28:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was on one job, luckily that voice.
28:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never had an artist or a hood or an artist that could whisper while singing, scream, and how to just, you know, it's like singing a little bit, because it was an amazing voice.
28:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you're taking this book on two or yourself from how the lead will ask about your take of the music venues, right?
28:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm a butters don't pay.
28:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So I call the couple promoters.
28:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I say, keep them in a little room and they also just fan bases huge.
28:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it helps pay the bills and the cost of being on turn.
29:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I really want an interactive thing with the fans where they can ask me anything they want.
29:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not about me dictating in these shows.
29:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I call them shows in the really shows or Q and A's.
29:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But I wanted to put a stamp on his legacy call and I want people to get out of these what they want to get out of them.
29:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I sure appreciate that you're doing this Dave.
29:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a pleasure talking to you and Jeff Buckley from Hallelujah to Alaska by I know it took a while to write it and I'm sure it was hard, but thank you for doing it.
29:29
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll do and people can go to Jeff Buckley the book.com to find the tour dates.
29:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
29:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Dave.
29:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Kyle.
29:36
[SPEAKER_02]: There you have it.
29:37
[SPEAKER_02]: My thanks there to Dave Lori talking about the book from Halleluja to the last goodbye.
29:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, my thanks to Amy Berg, the new documentary is called It's Never Over Jeff Buckley.
29:49
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30:25
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31:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And that does it for another edition.
31:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Kyle Meredith.
31:03
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31:17
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31:20
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