Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Her Goal Was My Birthday: Hotel Executive Turned Coach Lindsy Wnorowski on the Story That Changed Her Life

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Her Goal Was My Birthday: Hotel Executive Turned Coach Lindsy Wnorowski on the Story That Changed Her Life · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi,
0:16
and today's guest is Lindsay Winorsky.
0:19
She is the founder and Managing Director of Executive Leadership
0:23
Consulting, a firm specializing in leadership development,
0:26
strategic planning, change management and executive
0:30
coaching. Their mission is to align
0:32
culture with strategy using the Red Thread leadership model,
0:36
helping businesses of all sizes achieve sustainable growth.
0:40
Lindsay brings extensive hospitality experience across
0:43
global markets where she has built high performing teams and
0:47
shaped hotel general managers to excel through cultures of
0:50
innovation and excellence. Before launching the company,
0:53
Lindsay honed her skills at major hospitality brands,
0:57
gaining deep insights in the leadership and organizational
1:00
design. Now before we get into all that
1:02
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AD back benefits.com. All right, back to our guest
1:46
today, Founder of Executive Leadership Consultants, Lindsay
1:50
Winorski. Thanks for making the time to
1:51
Share your story today. Anthony, thanks for having me.
1:55
I'm really looking forward to getting to know you and sharing
1:57
the story with my fellow Buckeye.
1:59
So, all right, Ohi. Already.
2:04
Yeah, big victory. And I see that you're donning
2:06
the scarlet in Gray, and that warms my heart.
2:09
Much appreciate. Just for you, Anthony.
2:13
So Lindsay, you we're with Marriott, I think since you
2:17
graduated college 27 years, which is basically all you had
2:21
known at the time, what first drew you into the world of
2:26
hotels and hospitality? Thanks for the question.
2:29
Actually during college, so I, I, I graduated at 17, headed out
2:35
to Colorado for my first year, thought about playing softball
2:39
at Colorado State, ventured back home to Bowling Green State
2:42
University and during school started working for a Marriott
2:45
Hotel. I had family in the business and
2:49
needed a job to, to help pay for college and started a 90 room
2:54
Courtyard Marriott in Maumee, OH, we, we opened the doors to
2:59
that place. So which is it's a special
3:02
opportunity when you open a hotel, you're putting the
3:05
mattresses and you're putting the garbage cans in.
3:07
You're, you're sort of putting everything together within the
3:09
hotel. And that camaraderie that's
3:11
built is something that I, I fell in love with.
3:16
I didn't know it. I was going to school for
3:17
finance, but ended up getting ready to graduate from Bowling
3:22
Green, was looking to head into a career in financial planning
3:26
and had been kind of working at the front desk of this small
3:29
hotel during college. And the regional director at the
3:33
time came in and visited the hotel, Mike Marcus, and said,
3:38
would you ever consider staying with Marriott?
3:40
And I was 20, I believe. And I thought, maybe what's that
3:46
mean? And he's like, we have
3:47
opportunities and, you know, different capacities.
3:50
And I ended up engaging in the conversation with Mike and
3:53
interviewing for a job in Chicago and interviewing a job
3:56
for a job in San Francisco from small town Ohio.
3:59
And I took the the leap and made my way to Chicago.
4:03
Then 27 years later. And what was that first role
4:06
then kind of coming out? Of college, it was an assistant
4:10
general manager and it was so funny, Anthony, they said we
4:12
can, you know, pay for your relocation.
4:14
And I thought I'm sort of looking around my apartment
4:18
thinking I, I don't think we need to pay for any of this
4:20
stuff to be transported to Chicago.
4:22
But it was an assistant general manager.
4:23
So it was a bit of a a leap from a kind of front desk agent at a
4:29
small hotel and to an assistant general manager in the the
4:31
northern suburbs of Chicago and Highland Park.
4:35
So what was it about Marriott that you fell in love with kept
4:38
you there for nearly three decades?
4:42
The travel benefits are not terrible.
4:45
I've got to tell you now. I mean that that is a true
4:48
thing. I, I did, again, coming from
4:51
Maumee, OH, became very quickly sort of a, a global citizen with
4:56
the Marriott benefits. But it was, it was a family.
5:00
It really was a family. The hotel that I, I first
5:03
started at, the majority of the housekeepers had sort of
5:06
emigrated up from Mexico. They taught me Spanish, which
5:09
was fantastic. I became, you know, a godparent
5:14
to some of their children. It was just this amazing, just
5:18
connectivity and family atmosphere that allowed me to be
5:23
myself and, and grow. I was always looking to, I just,
5:28
I had a thirst for growth and Marriott, you know, Marriott
5:32
allowed that and being in the Chicago market, just the
5:35
diversity of people that I met in the different perspectives
5:41
from around the world that that's a huge reason on why I
5:44
stayed with the this great company for almost 30 years.
5:47
Did you, in the early days second guess the decision not to
5:50
get into financial planning? Never, never.
5:57
The schooling that I did was beneficial for me.
6:01
A lot of you know what I did, I was, I was only in that
6:04
assistant general manager role for probably 16 months or so and
6:10
very quickly at the age of 23 became a general manager.
6:14
I had no idea what I was doing. That was quite an interesting
6:16
experience by the way. But what I had learned from a
6:20
financial perspective in college, it it absolutely was
6:24
applicable. Now running this multi
6:27
$1,000,000 business at 23 years old, trying to figure out, you
6:30
know, what I was doing. So I I never second guessed it
6:32
actually. And you use the phrase, I had no
6:35
idea what I was doing. Who or where could you kind of
6:39
go to get support? Who could you lean on?
6:43
You know, I had a visit from the senior leaders within Marriott
6:48
when I was at that hotel in Highland Park, and my general
6:52
manager at the time happened to be in Thailand, and I had just
6:56
really gotten there and knew what I needed to do.
7:01
I make the hotel look clean, make sure everybody was smiling,
7:04
have a good first impression, sort of brush up on the business
7:07
as quickly as I could. And that day really changed my
7:13
life. They visited my hotel area vice
7:16
presidents, regional vice presidents, folks who had been
7:18
in the business forever, left my hotel, went and visited another
7:22
hotel where that property visit did not go so well.
7:25
And they made a phone call and said, I want Lindsay to come
7:29
over and run this hotel. I was 23 and I learned a lot
7:36
through trial and error. I walked into the hotel.
7:39
Every person in the hotel was significantly my senior and I'm
7:44
supposed to get them to come with me, not behind me to
7:47
achieve common objectives. And they're looking at me like,
7:51
who is this child coming in to run the hotel?
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And and really I'm going to ask, where did I learn?
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Who was my mentor? It was a lot of trial and error.
8:00
And I think I learned in my career.
8:03
That was a way that I learned well.
8:05
I mean, it was ingrained. It then became I have a
8:08
philosophy that I teach some of my coaching clients and it's
8:11
called sort of be no, do you know be who are you know, what
8:17
do you know and then do what do you know how to do in the
8:21
significant difference in those three categories.
8:23
And throughout that first stint as a general manager and a
8:28
growing up in that hotel, I really learned who I was.
8:33
It wasn't till much later in my career until I got to this sort
8:36
of do what do I know how to do? But I I don't think I could pick
8:40
one particular person that was kind of a mentor at that stage
8:43
of my career. And tell us about a couple of
8:47
the other stops that you made along the way before we get to
8:50
sort of present day on what you're doing now.
8:52
So I, I want to kind of lay the groundwork for some of the, the
8:56
foundational experiences that you've had.
8:58
Sure. I mean, really, the foundational
9:01
experiences I had I think came from playing sports in high
9:04
school and learning that just innately I was competitive.
9:10
I wanted to win by sort of 40 instead of four, always.
9:16
I had a coach who Jamie Mercurio, who went on to play
9:20
college basketball at University of Miami.
9:24
They played in the NCAA tournament.
9:25
He he has, you know, we watched the video of him shooting many 3
9:28
pointers as he they played University of North Carolina.
9:31
They got knocked out in the first round, but he did it to
9:34
the NCAA Tournament. That was probably, I should have
9:36
answered that when you said who, who did you learn from?
9:38
It was in those foundational years that and I knew the only
9:43
way to win by 40 instead of 4 was with the team.
9:49
And so even at this first hotel in Lincolnshire, I knew walking
9:52
in, even though everyone looking at me was like, this is this is
9:56
a little bit of a stretch. She's so young.
9:59
The way in which we went about winning at that hotel, for me it
10:04
was just building relationships. It was building relationships
10:07
with team and getting them to trust me.
10:09
I was there for just a couple of years and moved on to a little
10:12
bit larger market into O'Hare, which I remember interviewing
10:16
for O'Hare and interviewing of against, you know, a bunch of my
10:19
colleagues who were significantly more experienced
10:22
than me. That was a challenge that I
10:25
overcame. When I did get that job, it was
10:29
everyone was was sort of confused how how I was able to
10:34
move into that rule. But again, even at O'Hare it was
10:36
it was the same process. It was building relationships
10:38
with the team, earning their trust, challenging them.
10:42
So I spent some time at O'Hare in a general manager capacity
10:46
and then in the hospitality industry, at least for some of
10:50
the coveted rolls are really in the downtown urban market where
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it's most complex. They generate the most amount of
10:58
revenue. The challenges are significantly
11:01
more important. The mistakes are, are much
11:05
bigger. So I spend a little bit of time
11:07
in it's, it's the revenue associated with the hotel.
11:11
They're typically generating higher AD Rs average daily rates
11:15
based on demand, supply and demand.
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And so the decisions and the judgement, you know, I always
11:22
think that, you know, why do I hire you as a leader?
11:24
It's based on your ability to make decisions, right?
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And if you make a bad decision in those markets, there's a
11:29
microscope on it. If I made a bad decision out in
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Highland Park, nobody really knew.
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It was a couple $1000 mistake as opposed to something bigger than
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that. But then I moved to downtown
11:39
Chicago and one of the best seven years of my life was was
11:45
downtown Chicago. My hotel was adjacent to Lurie's
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Children's Hospital, Children's Hospital in Chicago that is
11:54
world renowned. It was really where I saw the
11:57
impact of the privilege really of being a leader and the impact
12:04
that you can have on something so much greater than you and
12:07
your team. And it was really through a
12:08
bunch of those relationships with with Lurie's.
12:10
But I was there for seven years and was ready to do do more,
12:16
have a, you know, really grow more leaders, have a larger
12:21
scope of business. And that's when I moved into a
12:23
regional capacity sort of pre COVID and had the opportunity to
12:28
oversee some Midwestern markets, Minneapolis, Saint Louis.
12:32
So what does that mean? Like you sort of have several
12:35
general managers that report to you.
12:38
That's right. And and I worked on the manage
12:40
side. So we, we all worked for
12:41
Marriott. So we Marriott is largely a
12:45
management company. We don't own hardly any of our
12:48
hotels, very, very few hotels. We're not a real estate company,
12:51
which is very good in times and can be extremely lucrative
12:55
because you don't own the real estate.
12:57
So in the regional capacity, I had general managers reporting
13:00
to me. So my role was, you know, to
13:03
inspire and motivate them with the end result of driving
13:06
performance exceeding expectations of the owners.
13:11
Our hotels are largely owned by different owners.
13:14
Not a lot of people know that about about Marriott, but is it?
13:17
Like a franchise system. It's there's a franchise, a
13:21
large franchise component to the business, but they, these, these
13:25
owners come to us to manage their hotels.
13:28
So we are just a management company.
13:29
I'm not just a very successful management company, but that was
13:33
that that role pre COVID for me was in a regional capacity
13:38
partnering with general managers that I used to be to to deliver
13:42
performance. And so that particular owner,
13:45
they own the land, they own the actual building, they've paid
13:49
for the development. And they say, hey, Lindsay
13:53
Marriott, you guys are the experts.
13:54
We would like for you to come in here and actually run this for
13:58
us and we'll pay you a fee for that.
14:01
That's right, they pay a fee on the top.
14:03
You know, we charge a management fee, the percentage 5678 percent
14:07
on the top is what Myriad takes and the rest of it, when you
14:11
work through the the PNL, you know, so really how the hotel
14:14
performs is the success for the owner.
14:17
They're the ones with the net operating at operating income,
14:20
which is hopefully a positive at the end of the year, at the end
14:22
of the day, at the end of the month.
14:23
So performance, we always talk about performance drives
14:27
preference. The better we perform for this
14:30
owner, the more likely it is that we're going to be the
14:32
preferred management company. You know, as we grow, if we have
14:36
general managers that aren't performing, you know, you can
14:40
see that through the statement. And so if there's a manager
14:44
who's not performing, would they still keep the Marriott name and
14:49
bring a new management company in or would that be like, hey,
14:53
we're, we're ripping the Marriott name off of this
14:55
building and we're changing to something else?
14:58
Absolutely incredible question. And that's on the mind of many
15:02
general managers daily. I mean, there's a management
15:04
agreement in place and there's a variety of ways in which owner
15:08
could sort of kick us out of managing their their company.
15:11
Sometimes it's encumbered, meaning you can, you know, kick
15:16
Marriott out, but you're still going to have to be managed.
15:19
Other times it's unencumbered where they can say, listen, we
15:22
want a different management company to run this hotel
15:25
because we're not happy with the current management company.
15:28
So it really depends on the management agreement, but that's
15:31
what we were always fighting for was to, in my opinion, Marriott
15:36
should be the best manager of Marriott hotels.
15:40
It's who we are, but there's some really successful franchise
15:45
management companies out there that there's there's a ton of
15:47
them. The majority of our business is
15:48
really franchise. So you were on a great career
15:52
track, dude, been moving up. Now you're, you know, regional,
15:56
you've got several GMs that are reporting to you.
15:59
I'd like to hear about what was behind the decision to leave
16:03
this kind of safe corporate job and go out on your own.
16:07
And I think maybe a good place to start.
16:09
You tell me, But it'd be interesting to hear about the
16:13
mentor from Whirlpool and how his guidance kind of influenced
16:18
the decision that you made. Yeah, I, I'm crazy.
16:21
I think that's one thing for sure.
16:23
Leaving a, a really, you know, 27 years and three decades, The
16:28
foundation of my life is the relationships and opportunities
16:33
that Marriott afforded me. And we, we went through a bit of
16:37
a reorg in sort of December of this year.
16:40
And I had always sort of had a reputation of pushing the
16:49
boundaries a little bit. There was perhaps opinions that
16:53
maybe I was a little bit too transparent, maybe sharing, you
16:57
know, behind the scenes with my team, what was really going on.
17:01
And and it always bumped up against some boundaries.
17:05
And I like to look at it of sort of a compare and contrast.
17:12
Making the decision 27 years and through lots of conversations
17:16
with my mentor and thanks for mentioning him was about I felt
17:22
ready and prepared based on what I had learned in the three
17:25
decades. It was about having the
17:30
opportunity to do what I love, which is be up close and
17:34
personal with leaders, have the freedom to do it authentically
17:39
my way without any precedent, any sort of bureaucracy or or
17:47
layers of approval. And I had a discussion, lots of
17:51
discussions with a mentor of mine.
17:52
I met a gentleman who was the chief human resources officer
17:57
for Whirlpool Corporation. I was on my first day as a
18:01
general manager at O'Hare and the event manager walked into my
18:04
office that was green, I remember, and said we've got a
18:09
client in the media room today. That's a real pain in the ass.
18:12
And I thought, well, good morning, I'm Lindsay, nice to
18:14
meet you. And in hearing that, I thought
18:17
what a great opportunity. I love when they're a pain in
18:19
the ass. This one's going to be fun for
18:21
me. You.
18:22
Enjoy that? I do.
18:24
I looked at it as as an opportunity.
18:27
I love building relationships with people that are perceived
18:32
difficult that when I have the opportunity to really get to
18:37
know them in whatever capacity I can based on the timeline, it's
18:41
like, I don't think they're a pain in the ass.
18:42
They just have high expectations.
18:44
They're very detail oriented. They don't accept mediocrity.
18:49
So this gentleman, Ed Dunn, watch into my office.
18:54
And again, I'm 26, maybe at the time, a little bit wet behind
18:59
the ears. And I just looked at him.
19:00
I shook his hand and I said, you must be the pain in the ass that
19:02
we have in our meeting space today.
19:04
And he starts laughing. And I felt comfortable saying
19:07
that it was, you know, some people are like, you're kidding
19:10
me. That's how you greeted him.
19:11
And it just felt it felt right. Talk about pushing the
19:15
boundaries a little bit and being transparent.
19:18
He and I, we met, you know, we talked.
19:21
Everything went great with his meeting.
19:22
He chose to retire from Whirlpool and became a
19:27
consultant doing head hunting for CE OS.
19:32
He was extremely intelligent, just and so humble, so not a
19:39
pain in the ass at all. By the way, he's I look forward
19:41
to seeing him later this week up in Saint Joe, Michigan.
19:44
He became a mentor. We actually went out to dinner
19:45
that night. I remember we went to Nick's
19:47
Fish Market and at O'Hare and had some Dover soul by the way.
19:50
But he became a mentor for me. He was my greatest source of
19:55
inspiration and has changed my life.
19:58
He's probably in his 80s now, and like I said, I'm getting
20:01
ready to go see him in Saint Joe, Michigan to do some.
20:04
Work this coming weekend. But he and I spoke about the
20:07
transition from leaving Marriott and he did it and he went
20:12
through it and he had a significant, well, a significant
20:17
more amount of stress than me thinking about leaving the
20:20
comforts of corporate America. He had a wife that was battling
20:23
cancer who has unfortunately passed away.
20:26
But the insurance benefits and, and that type of stuff that come
20:29
with that decision. But he, he instilled the
20:32
confidence in me that what you've learned within Marriott
20:35
is important and valuable and you can do it in your own way.
20:40
And I'm going to support you by doing that.
20:43
And that's, that's kind of what I've been doing over the last 8
20:46
to 9 months and it's been, it's been really exciting.
20:49
OK, so let's dive a little bit more into what it is that you're
20:52
doing at Executive Leadership Consulting.
20:55
Who, who are your clients? What?
20:56
What can you do for them? Yeah, I mean it's it's really
21:00
rooted in talent and performance.
21:03
So my clients are, it kind of spans from GMs who are looking
21:06
for coaching, so general managers within merit and and
21:10
even outside of merit that are just either stuck and looking to
21:15
go through a process that I kind of call Adm assessment,
21:19
development, measurement, working through that sort of up
21:22
close and personal with them in a coaching perspective, doing
21:26
some workshops that are really transformational.
21:30
I mean, there's a leadership transition workshop that we go
21:34
through that I learned through through Ed where anytime there's
21:40
a change at the top, whether it's a new general manager, a
21:42
new CEO, change creates anxiety. Everything pauses, especially in
21:51
a hotel. We have AGM that's been in
21:53
position for a long time. They're moving on, they're
21:55
retiring, they're moving to another role.
21:58
The performance takes a dip. And the point of this meeting,
22:03
this leadership transition meeting is to really mitigate
22:06
the depth and the duration of that dip in the way that we do
22:10
it with the third party consultant.
22:12
And I've had the opportunity to do 5 or 6 of these in the last
22:14
couple months, which have been so rewarding.
22:16
Is it's a structured process that really brings all of the
22:21
fears, all of the unknowns about the new leader.
22:24
For instance, you know, am I in or am I out?
22:28
I was so and so's number one guy.
22:31
How am I going to be with this individual?
22:34
Am I in top or am I on bottom from a control perspective, from
22:38
an open and trust perspective? Am I going to kind of wait and
22:41
see and kind of hold off on bringing my full self to the
22:44
business or am I going to go all in and trust this individual?
22:47
So this process is brilliant. It originated actually in in
22:54
organizational effectiveness program in the Army.
22:59
Ed Dunn and his his colleague have put me through the be no do
23:04
so they put me through a couple of these with them and then have
23:07
unleashed me to to do these on my own.
23:09
And it's amazing to see the team that walks in on the day of the
23:14
meeting is so different than the team that walks out of that
23:18
meeting. And the way that they hit the
23:20
ground running the next day that they show up to work based on
23:22
what they've talked about, the trust that has started to build.
23:28
I, I, I had a couple of folks, directors of human resources say
23:31
to me, I've learned more about my team that I've worked with in
23:35
14 years in the last four hours in this leadership transition
23:39
meeting. And wow, we get to work together
23:42
differently now. And it's, so that's, that's one
23:45
of the workshops. Anthony, another thing that I'm
23:48
passionate about, I'm sorry to get you off is, is culture.
23:54
It all comes down to culture. It, it really does.
23:57
I mean, we're in the performance industry and we want to deliver
23:59
results. Whether I was the point guard or
24:04
the 23 year old GM, the culture dictated the performance and the
24:12
results. And so there's a a lot of work
24:15
that I've been doing around associate relations make me feel
24:21
that I am somebody at every single individual.
24:25
During COVID, the essential workers, right?
24:29
We all heard about the essential workers.
24:31
And if it was not clear in advance of COVID who the
24:36
essential workers in the hotel, it was 1000% crystal clear after
24:41
COVID, the essential workers in the are the housekeepers period.
24:47
And instilling that in general managers, I do a lot of work
24:52
with sort of servant leadership. I know it's a bit of a cliche,
24:56
but it's really what I believe. If you as a general manager
24:59
don't feel like it's an absolute privilege to lead A-Team, you're
25:04
probably not in the right job. So that's a little bit of the
25:07
work that we're doing. And then there's an owner
25:09
ownership component, which is really exciting.
25:13
On the ownership side, like we talked about, a lot of the
25:16
owners are owner operators. So they don't have Marriott
25:19
there to manage their their hotel.
25:21
They have their own team. So some of the work that has
25:24
been interesting and I'm getting ready to do tomorrow.
25:26
Meeting with an ownership company here in Kansas City is
25:29
more of a total organizational assessment, taking the
25:32
opportunity to assess the business, kind of analyze the
25:38
opportunities and whether that's through selection or
25:43
deselection, that may be part of that part of it, or just
25:48
tweaking the Rubik's Cube a little bit to, to help drive
25:51
performance. But that's, that's the bulk of
25:53
it is talent and performance owners, individual GM's,
25:57
workshops on leadership. I've been a leadership junkie
26:02
and have craved that knowledge probably since I started
26:06
following Bobby Knight back in the day.
26:09
So. Is Bobby Knight an inspiration
26:12
for you? Because you don't come.
26:16
Across as a Bobby Knight. I don't endorse the chair
26:20
throwing across the but what I do love about Bobby Knight,
26:24
besides the fact that he was a Buckeye, I think like a 6th man
26:27
on the on the Ohio State team. In case you don't know that, but
26:32
the way in which his team performed was rooted in
26:35
practice. Practice, practice, practice,
26:38
practice, plan, perform. That's how I built my teams.
26:43
We were so good that I had a phrase, we built A-Team so
26:49
strong that you don't know who the leader is.
26:52
It was incredible. So Bobby Knight, you know, as as
26:57
harsh as he comes off, his team was so loyal to him and his his
27:03
players graduate, which which I can, you know, kind of draw a
27:06
line to the team that worked around me and with me.
27:11
They weren't jumping at the next opportunity that paid more,
27:14
right? I mean, imagine now in NIL,
27:16
right? Who knows what it would be like
27:18
with Bobby Knight coaching now, what the team would look like.
27:20
But our team was so close, built on loyalty.
27:23
And my expectations were really high and I pushed people, you
27:27
know, to get there. And so he is an inspiration to
27:30
me, oddly enough. Minus the chair throwing.
27:34
And minus, minus the chair that that was not good.
27:37
I do not condone that of. Course.
27:40
But I want to go back to one of the first things you were
27:42
talking about that you provide this 4 hour workshop where I
27:46
think, you know, one of your clients said, yeah, I've been
27:48
working with my team for 14 years.
27:50
I know more about them now from the last four hours than I do
27:54
the previous 14 years. What's taking place in that room
27:56
during that time? If I'm doing a good job and what
28:00
I think I've really spent my career on and where it came a
28:03
little bit of a rub for Marriott was creating an open
28:09
environment. So I am very clear on, you know,
28:12
a lot of GM say I want to bring the entire leadership team and
28:15
my first question to them is, is it safe?
28:18
Is it safe? Is it going to be safe for a
28:21
direct report in a subordinate once removed to really share
28:25
what's going on? And so the design, the I was I,
28:30
I think about 80% process, 20% content.
28:33
The design of the meeting is such that it's a safe
28:37
environment. I do some one-on-one interviews
28:40
with everybody in advance of these meetings and gather the
28:43
what from the interview, not The Who.
28:46
So there's a confidentiality that's really important to me
28:50
and critical to the meeting being successful.
28:53
And the way it's it's it's the way that either the questions
28:58
are asked, the environment that is set.
29:00
We don't do it at the hotel. We're always off site.
29:04
I like teams of three as opposed to teams of 2A.
29:07
Triad is significantly different than a dyad.
29:12
So there's a lot of thought put into the process that allows for
29:18
the open dialogue. I was doing one last week and at
29:21
the the very end, 4:30, this typically ends at 5:00.
29:25
We start at noon or so. At 12:30, this team was a little
29:28
hesitant to really open up. And I talked through with them.
29:32
I named it. I said, if I'm doing a good job
29:34
today, we're going to go from control, the inclusion to
29:38
control to openness. And at 4:30, one of the leaders
29:42
in the room looked at their new GM and said, you know what?
29:46
I do not appreciate this and I've been dealing with this and
29:50
this is really challenging for me.
29:52
And that leader looked back at the the leader on their team and
29:56
they simply said thank you. And I said, we made it.
30:00
We made it to openness and trust in that it wouldn't have
30:03
happened without probably someone facilitating, you know,
30:09
that wasn't within the organization.
30:10
So I get that, you know, there's a lot of thought put into who's
30:15
in that room, right in the combination of people, the
30:18
number of people that are going in there.
30:21
And you've got through these pre interviews that you do to kind
30:24
of as much as you can understand some of the dynamics that are
30:27
going on. But what's the actual content
30:30
that's taking place? Is it, you know, you're not
30:32
doing, I'm going to guess you're not doing like trust falls and
30:35
that kind of a thing. It's more like, I don't know
30:38
what, tell me. It's a great analogy, by the
30:41
way, though I love the trust falls, right?
30:43
And ideally we don't do trust falls, by the way, my favorite
30:45
is when the person falls forward, but it's it's at the
30:50
beginning. It's kind of what don't you know
30:53
about this leader that you'd like to know?
30:56
And then them kind of sharing that feedback.
30:58
It is what are some things that have been going on at this
31:02
property forever that don't make sense and that you'd really like
31:07
to stop? The the first thing that I, that
31:11
I share with the leader, the new GM having been one, especially a
31:17
young one, I felt like we always had to be the change agent.
31:21
You're bringing me in here to be the change agent.
31:24
One of the things that we talk about very openly in this
31:26
meeting is what are the things that we have to protect?
31:30
You know what, John, you can have the freedom to change
31:34
anything, but don't touch these 10 things.
31:36
These are critical to the core of the hotel.
31:38
These are critical to who we are.
31:40
So having the leader learn from the team what they can't change
31:46
before they even start to think about all the things that they
31:49
want to change is a mindset that isn't typically talked about.
31:54
So those are some of the things that we talked about in this
31:56
meeting. And we end with, you know what,
31:58
with a dinner that night and I ask everybody to just kind of go
32:01
around the room and say one or two words about how they felt
32:03
about the day. And it's typically, well, it's,
32:07
it's been always good. It's, I don't know if I'd like
32:10
the word vulnerable because I think people, you're vulnerable
32:13
and they look at a picture in the dictionary and they see,
32:16
maybe they see weakness. I don't know.
32:17
I, I'm hoping that changes, but it's a vulnerable meeting.
32:20
It's a meeting where it's safe to share what's really going on.
32:25
I might ask you to be vulnerable here for a moment, and it would
32:28
be good to explore a serious challenge that you've overcome
32:33
in your life. How did you get through that and
32:35
what did you learn? I would say that the most,
32:40
there's a few, but one that comes to mind that ties back to
32:42
something that I briefly touched on earlier was the proximity to
32:45
Laurie's children's. And I don't know what you can
32:48
see behind me, but there's a little bit of a picture right
32:51
there and you can kind of see it of a young lady who lived at a
32:58
hotel with me. She was born in Iraq, lived in
33:00
Dubai at age 6, was diagnosed with with with cancer.
33:06
And oddly enough, as rich as the country is of Dubai, their
33:09
healthcare from a children's perspective is really lacking.
33:14
We would all want to go there if we had something going on with
33:16
us. But from a child, they brought
33:18
this child to Chicago to Lurie's to be to be treated.
33:24
There was a change in administration in the US where
33:27
the fact that their passports were from Iraq became difficult
33:33
for them to stay in the country. Even though they're 6789 and 10
33:37
year old, which is the ages that this young lady, Haya Arkhan
33:41
Abdul Azim lived, ended up living with me, They had to go
33:45
back to Iraq. This this couple, it's a bit of
33:49
a long story, but I was the general manager at the hotel and
33:52
they spoke basically just Arabic.
33:55
I got introduced to them because they were going to be moving in
33:57
for who knows how long. It ended up being four years.
34:01
They ended up leaving and their six year old, 7 or 8 at the
34:05
time, was still there. I became the medical power of
34:10
attorney and essentially A surrogate mother for this young
34:13
lady. I The hospital is literally 2
34:17
blocks right down Meese Vander Way from the hotel.
34:21
God bless my team at the hotel who allowed me to basically take
34:23
my laptop to the hospital and work most days.
34:26
Haya ended up learning English, becoming a little bit of a mini
34:31
me. We had a name tag for her that
34:33
was, you know, resident manager. She walked around with a notepad
34:36
and I would take a little bit of time off on vacation and my
34:39
phone would ring and she'd say, Lindsay, nobody's doing anything
34:43
calling me. But she hated it when this is
34:45
during when the Cubs won the World Series, by the way, which
34:48
they were all at the parade and she she definitely called me and
34:50
told me. Long story short, which it
34:53
deserves probably a book to be written.
34:57
Haya in the middle of the night one night they called, she
34:59
needed a new liver and they called and there was a liver.
35:03
Unfortunately there was a car accident on the Kennedy and
35:06
there was a liver and so we went rushing over to Laurie's.
35:09
I pulled up in my Jeep. I left it running in valet.
35:12
I knew them so well. We were there pretty much every
35:14
day. Went into the ER of the
35:17
Children's Hospital and she started to have liver surgery.
35:21
And as they removed her liver, the, the surgeon came in and he
35:27
said, and they've done, we had so many PET scans, so many CT
35:31
scans. I mean, I thought we knew where
35:33
the cancer was. I thought that we, we certainly
35:36
felt that if there was a new liver, there was hope that she
35:38
would live. And when they took out her
35:40
liver, it had just spread everywhere.
35:42
And he said to me, I really shouldn't be doing this
35:46
transplant because we're supposed to be giving this liver
35:50
to someone that, you know, has a good chance of living.
35:53
He did the transplant. She woke up and was so excited
36:00
and having to tell her that what had transpired.
36:04
It's difficult right now even, but this kid just changed my
36:10
life and taught me more than any, any lesson about fighting
36:22
and about perseverance and love, unconditional love.
36:28
And unfortunately, the liver did extend her life.
36:33
Haya made it to July 28th of 2017 at 2:16 PM.
36:40
My birthday is July 29th and her her goal was to make it to my
36:45
birthday. That's something overcoming that
36:51
trying to go through that and run a hotel, having her parents
36:56
on a screen with an Arabic translator.
36:59
They made it back. Her parents were back before she
37:02
died. This is actually her mom's
37:06
wedding ring, which I will never take off.
37:08
But is that the the gift that they could give me that that
37:12
thank them for, you know, providing love to to their
37:17
daughter, which if I could only cheer with them how much she,
37:19
you know, she provided to me. But that's overcoming that in
37:25
learning from her. I mean, we were in a country
37:27
that struggled with folks that looked like the folks looked in
37:31
Middle East. And there were just so many
37:33
things that I learned from that family and what they went
37:36
through and going back to the hotel the next day and you know,
37:41
that's I LED like this, you know, I couldn't keep it in.
37:44
And and the team knew her, everyone knew her.
37:46
We basically raised her within the hotel, the most special
37:52
individual I've ever met in my life, and I think about her
37:54
every single day, every day. Thank you for sharing.
37:57
That letting me share that. Thanks for letting me share
38:00
that. It's been a while.
38:01
It's been a while. You talked about there being so
38:04
many lessons that you've learned from her.
38:06
What's the one that sticks with you the most?
38:10
Just, you know, I would always regret what I didn't do versus
38:16
what I did. And she that child, 23 rounds of
38:21
chemo like and every single one thought that she was going to
38:25
make it. And her, her ability to fight.
38:28
I mean, during COVID, you know, when I was in a regional
38:31
capacity, I went from 27 hotels to 80.
38:35
And it was, you know, seven days a week, 16 hours a day.
38:39
And I, and I had I not gone through and learned from her
38:43
about perseverance, Nothing else in this world was a challenge.
38:47
When I saw what she went through, I thought it's hard.
38:50
I don't leave my seat. I put on some weight.
38:52
I'm a little stressed. This is impacting my
38:54
relationships and my health. But there there's nothing that
39:00
I've come up against that. As I reflect back on what she
39:04
went through, I don't think I can make it through it.
39:09
I can do it. This team can do it right?
39:11
I mean, that's right. You know, I have leaders that
39:14
that are struggling and I know people can make it through.
39:17
If we, you know, if we just put the right emphasis on it and but
39:22
she she's just taught me to live optimistically.
39:24
Every single day that I wake up is a blessing for me.
39:27
It's a blessing. I just.
39:29
Did and I'm guessing you, you find strength in that as you're,
39:34
you know, working to build this new consulting business.
39:36
You left the security of, you know, corporate America.
39:39
And it sounds like you, you know, you've got a bunch of
39:42
clients, like a lot of good things going on, but this is
39:45
still, you know, uncharted territory for you.
39:48
How are you approaching kind of the day-to-day?
39:51
It is. And I mean one of the things I
39:53
take from high is just is I think the word courage, you
39:56
know, going from the comfort, you know, the comfort of
39:59
Marriott. I knew Marriott, you know, I
40:01
mean, I could sort of do it really well.
40:04
Based on what I knew and I think of the courage that it takes to,
40:08
to launch a new business and find clients that, you know, I,
40:12
I hate selling, I hate sales. I just, I'm uncomfortable with
40:17
it. I, I would rather just sort of
40:18
perform. And this is, I'm on a new
40:21
trajectory right now. It's it's a trajectory filled
40:26
with hope, new relationships, new learnings.
40:33
It's humbling to me how many people I call and sort of
40:36
prospect that don't have the money or aren't ready to work
40:39
with me. I'm driven by accomplishment.
40:43
I like to win. And so I've had a lot of
40:46
failures, you know, as this business has started.
40:50
But I think it's like a golfer. And I'm not a golfer, but I
40:55
think people golf like really poorly.
40:57
And then they hit like an incredible shot.
40:59
It takes them back to golf again.
41:02
You know, I'll have 5 rejections and then an ownership group that
41:06
is like, we need you and what you bring and then I'm all in.
41:11
I think lastly, Anthony, on that, I mean the relationship
41:14
that I had with Haya, I don't think my team would have ever
41:17
described me as patient. I do like a little bit of
41:20
patience. She taught me patience.
41:24
And in this new world, in the consulting business, I have the
41:29
ability to give all of me to every client.
41:32
I'm not battling 27 different things and kind of going through
41:38
the sort of law of diminishing returns they get all of me.
41:41
And it reflects back to when I would walk into my office, no
41:44
matter what was going on in the hotel, I just stopped and my
41:48
blood pressure went down and I had this little human being in
41:51
front of me, right? And, and I, I feel that way with
41:54
clients where it's just us one-on-one, there's nothing else
41:59
going on. And it's, it's been incredible.
42:05
It's been incredible. It's it's a gift to to have
42:08
especially today where I feel like it's harder and harder for
42:11
us to focus on a single thing. You know, I'm sitting here in
42:14
front of my computer all day long.
42:15
My phone is lighting up with calls and text messages.
42:19
I've got all kinds of stuff beeping on my computer.
42:21
I've got different channels of communication I need to check.
42:25
And so I could see like the experience with being like
42:30
nothing else is that important right now, Like I'm here with
42:33
you. And when you have an opportunity
42:36
like that to focus all of your attention, your, your brain,
42:40
your, your, your heart, everything is on this one
42:44
person, this one moment. What a gift to be able to then
42:47
take that into less serious situations, but give your
42:51
clients sort of the same gift of your complete and total
42:54
presence. It, it's, it's really the
42:58
differentiator. I mean, it is I was walking into
43:04
having sort of 57 hotels or 57 direct reports and I just
43:09
thought that's not the best use of my, my skill set real, real
43:13
quick. I've, I had a couple of clients
43:15
who were previous general managers that used to work for
43:17
me and they're like, my gosh, we've never had a conversation
43:21
like that. Why?
43:21
I wish you would have led me that way.
43:23
I said, well, you were, I was trying to get your issue solved
43:26
like really quickly so I can go on to the next thing.
43:30
And how different different the depth of the interaction is now
43:34
and how they're learning so much about themselves through my
43:36
ability to just be all in. I mean, we are in a world that
43:40
is racing towards in personalization, whether it's
43:43
through AI or and I want to stay in this lane as long as as, as
43:48
long as people will have me. How do you work on culture?
43:53
I know that's one of the things that's really important to you,
43:55
but as you come in as a consultant or, you know, for
43:57
listeners who are like, I've got a company, I've got a group,
44:00
I've got a team of employees, and I want to work on our
44:02
culture, I don't even know where to begin what.
44:05
Do you say, yeah, I mean, absolutely.
44:08
It's there's a there's sort of a there's a model.
44:11
I'm not a big model person, but there there is a model that, you
44:14
know, you can kind of go through.
44:16
But at the end of the day, the culture is, you know, I think of
44:19
it in a couple ways. I mean, there's got to be
44:22
there's got to be fair pay, to be honest.
44:24
That's part of the culture, right?
44:25
There has to be fair pay. And I talked to some teams about
44:29
sort of felt fair pay where they feel like, you know, I would say
44:33
to folks, we're not going to be paying you David Merritt salary.
44:37
None of us are getting that. However for the job that you're
44:40
doing, are we taking care of you here in sharing even with with
44:44
regards to pay, being very transparent, here's what the
44:48
hotel's paying across the street.
44:49
Here's what our total compensation includes.
44:51
You were talking earlier about benefits, you know, in
44:55
healthcare and providing healthcare to to individuals.
44:58
So that's a component of it is, is really fair pay.
45:01
A huge part of it is, and I, I hate to, you know, really curse,
45:05
but I, I talk to these guys about sort of no asshole bosses.
45:09
If you have bosses that don't believe in servant leadership,
45:14
you're going to have a significant problem with the
45:16
culture. So, so much time we focus on
45:19
selection. I let people know deselection,
45:23
deselecting somebody is as important as selection.
45:27
You know, there's another layer that we talked about it just
45:30
making me feel like I'm somebody.
45:32
When's the last time, you know, your wife or, or you have gone
45:35
home from work and it's been like, you know, how was the day,
45:38
honey, same old, same old. What about if they came home and
45:42
said it was absolutely unbelievable today and you'll
45:45
never believe what my leader did for me.
45:47
They they took me to lunch. We wouldn't even talk about
45:49
work. We just chatted about the kids,
45:52
right. So those sort of unexpected, not
45:55
all the time, but genuine interactions that are.
46:00
Like a real human connection moment.
46:02
Like I'm I'm focusing on you. We're not here to complain or
46:06
talk about work necessarily. We're just I want to hear about
46:10
you. I.
46:12
Agree. And I and in my kind of world,
46:15
leadership, leadership and communication are the same
46:18
thing. If you don't effectively
46:20
communicate, you can't lead. And part of the culture thing
46:24
is, you know, I'll go in and ask leaders.
46:26
I mean, who are some of the greatest communicators you've
46:27
ever heard of? Martin Luther King, you know,
46:31
whatever they, they go through a list of people and it's like,
46:33
who are some of the greatest leaders that you've ever?
46:35
And, and there isn't a great leader that isn't a great
46:37
communicator and that permeates down through the culture, right?
46:41
I mean, there's a huge component on effective communication.
46:44
But the most important piece, truly, Anthony, is, and I always
46:48
have people write this down, make me feel like I am somebody.
46:52
That's what we all want. Make me feel like I'm somebody.
46:55
And then and then how? OK, great.
46:57
How do you do that? How do you do that?
47:01
Communication, communication, communication.
47:05
It's it's, it's not complicated, but it's challenging because
47:10
somebody has to do it. That that that's the culture
47:14
piece. It really is.
47:16
How do you get around resistance to change?
47:19
Right? Because that can really derail
47:22
even the best strategies. It's, it goes back to these
47:27
leadership transition meetings, right?
47:28
I mean, talking about the fears of the unknown, bringing it up.
47:32
What, what and resistance to change is, you know, I, I love
47:37
starting with everything that we're not going to change.
47:40
Change is so scary for people. It's amazing, the pause that
47:45
happens in an organization. One of the, the last clients
47:49
that I had an opportunity to work with, the pause started
47:53
when this leader announced 3 months in advance that they'd be
47:57
retiring. That's when the pause started
48:00
and all the work kind of stopped.
48:02
And I mean, just to think about how much was lost during that
48:07
time and had we come in and really talked about what their
48:12
fears were, what the unknowns were, how they're still going to
48:16
have control, you know, over the environment, what that looks
48:19
like. But change management is, it's
48:23
psychological. One of the things that I've had
48:25
the freedom to do after leaving Marriott is take some graduate
48:30
level courses in psychology. I took a couple in interpersonal
48:35
dynamics and wow, just learning how the brain functions and what
48:41
we attach to. I mean, that's all about change
48:44
and what happens when change is occurring within our psyche and
48:48
bringing it to the forefront and naming it and talking about it.
48:51
It sounds so basic. When I start these leadership
48:54
transition meetings and say to people, you're all sitting here
48:58
right now and likely, if you're being honest, this is what
49:00
you're thinking, boom, boom, boom.
49:02
And they're all like, yeah, that is what we're thinking.
49:03
I can't believe we're calling that out.
49:06
We don't do that typically. When a transition in leadership
49:12
is anticipated, what's the right timing to engage with you?
49:19
This particular meeting best works around the second week.
49:24
It gives the team an opportunity to have some time with with the
49:28
individual We're doing some that are 5 weeks out in the meeting
49:31
is still just as good. But you know, I enjoy starting
49:39
that process maybe two or three weeks in advance of the
49:43
transition actually occurring with someone on ones and then
49:46
the meeting taking place around the 2nd to 3rd week of them
49:50
actually being in in place. Is is is really good timing?
49:55
It's it's ideal. Can you recommend a favorite
49:59
podcast or book for the audience, Something that's been
50:02
really helpful for you? It's funny kind of sitting on my
50:05
desk and it's so old school. It is like so old school that
50:09
probably if you went on to Amazon, maybe there's 2 copies
50:11
less left. But it's my Bible and it, it was
50:16
written in the 70s and it's actually called the lessons of
50:20
experience. And it's, it's how successful
50:23
executives develop on the job. This is, this is the book.
50:26
And what what this talks about, and I've used this throughout my
50:30
career, is the way that we learn and grow as leaders is through
50:36
is there's three ways primarily who's your boss is critical,
50:44
good or bad? It's critical.
50:46
The second one that we just spent a lot of time talking
50:48
about hardships and failures, hardships and failures that you
50:52
go through. How quickly and how do you adapt
50:56
to those? How do you come back from them
50:59
And the lessons learned? And the third thing in which we
51:03
grow and develop from is assignments, Babs opportunities.
51:06
What, what would people are so comfortable and want to stay in
51:10
the same hotel, the same brand, the same discipline?
51:16
They're avoiding those assignments and the lessons
51:19
learned from them. So those three things, hardships
51:23
and failures, bosses and assignments, and in this book
51:28
goes into a lot of other things, but they've been critical for
51:31
me. I've learned more from bad
51:32
bosses and I've learned from good bosses.
51:35
My own boss right now, it's a little crazy.
51:38
My partner would probably say they're my boss, but that's a
51:41
book that is near and dear to me.
51:46
It made an interesting comment about learning more from your
51:49
bad bosses than your good ones. Why is that?
51:51
How is that? You know, feeling it, being in
51:54
it, living it, knowing what it does to your mental health on a
51:59
daily basis and then how that impacts the rest of your life.
52:04
I sort of vowed not, not that I even needed to vow.
52:06
I think I learned this early on in sports, but to never sort of
52:10
be that way. You know, I think we can learn
52:13
things through the reverse. You know, here's absolutely who
52:15
I don't want to be and how do I, how do I go about that?
52:18
But I do I, I really firmly believe that aside from, I don't
52:23
know, maybe your priest, your pastor, your immediate family,
52:27
your boss has the biggest impact on your entire life.
52:33
And so the privilege to be someone's boss is it's, it's a
52:38
privilege. And, and I've worked for people
52:41
who did not feel that way. They're sort of autocratic and
52:44
top down command and control approach which just it it
52:49
doesn't work. They end up being good examples
52:52
of what you don't want to do, what you behaviors you don't
52:55
want to repeat. Yeah, I never want someone to
52:58
feel that poorly about themselves based on, you know,
53:02
an environment that is is not a culture.
53:05
I mean, getting back to culture, right?
53:07
The culture, the culture, how should we behave, right?
53:11
What's the behavior of people in in this environment?
53:14
I mean, that's the culture, right?
53:15
What what's the expected norms? I've learned a lot from bosses
53:20
that that were promoted beyond their capacity.
53:24
For sure, for sure. What daily practices do you
53:29
engage in that either help your day get started or keep you on
53:33
track? Yeah, I have.
53:36
That is so evolved through the years is so evolved.
53:39
It used to be Orangetheory. I remember, I think when I was,
53:41
you know, the most stressed, the best way to start my day was
53:46
either in a boot camp running over the Lakeshore drive on the,
53:50
the, the bridge that went over to Oak Street Beach there.
53:54
Now being in sort of suburban Kansas City, it is.
53:59
I've been in an urban environment my entire life.
54:01
I'm now, you know, sitting in Kansas City and every morning
54:06
reading LinkedIn, I do read. I do start the morning reading
54:09
the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, typically
54:12
LinkedIn to catch up on a couple of things with a cup of coffee
54:16
on the back deck listening to the birds.
54:18
I've downloaded an app thanks to my mom called the Merlin app.
54:22
And if you would have told somebody five years ago, I would
54:25
start my day saying I think that's a Carolina Wren.
54:28
They would have told you. They would have told you that
54:32
I've been taken out of my body and in an alien his.
54:35
This is a bird watching app. It's a bird watching app, but I
54:39
definitely start the morning. I'm early riser.
54:42
I think the best in the morning. I tend to hit a lull at like
54:46
between 2:00 and 3:00 and then I feel sharp again around 5 and
54:51
and feel like I do my best work early in the morning and even
54:54
from like 5:00 to 9:00 at night. But the routine for me, I was, I
54:58
want to keep up to date on what's going on in the world,
55:01
although it's not always good right now.
55:02
So I'm always starting the day reading New York Times, Wall
55:05
Street Journal. There's always something in
55:07
there that is applicable to leadership, good or bad
55:13
examples. But that that's a routine that
55:15
I've I've been in for quite some time.
55:18
What's your superpower, Lindsay? I would say establishing and not
55:26
only establishing but maintaining relationships.
55:30
I I give all of me in relationships that are
55:37
important. I don't have a ton, but the ones
55:40
that are important feed me. Most of my best relationships
55:46
right now are people that I met through through Marriott, and to
55:51
be able to work with them not as their leader or boss now, but as
55:56
a coach or consultant or just friend is really a very cool
56:01
evolution. Lindsay, I've just got one more
56:04
question for you, but before I ask it, I want to do a few
56:06
things. First of all, everyone
56:08
listening, if you want to get in touch with Lindsay, recommend
56:12
her LinkedIn page, Lindsay Winarski, and we'll put a link
56:16
to that in the show notes. Also visit her website, which is
56:20
Executive leadershipco.com, executiveleadershipco.com.
56:25
If you want to get in touch with Lindsay, our website is
56:28
Executive leadershipco.com. Also, as a reminder, if you want
56:32
to get more employees access to benefits that won't hurt them
56:35
financially and carries a financial upside for the
56:38
company, reach out to us at Add Back benefits.com.
56:41
Finally, if you will take just a moment to leave us a comment or
56:44
review on your favorite podcast app, we will be forever
56:47
grateful. So last question for you,
56:50
Lindsay, you and I reconnect a year from now and you're
56:53
celebrating something big. What's that big thing you hope
56:57
to be celebrating one year from today?
57:00
Is it crazy that my mind would initially to the fact that I
57:03
will be married one year from today?
57:05
So I'm looking forward to, to that will happen in April.
57:09
And I think secondarily and truly, secondarily, having
57:15
impacted and helped multiple leaders find, you know, their
57:23
true passion and their true authentic self.
57:26
I, I cannot wait. I'm looking forward to doing it
57:28
tomorrow. I'm looking forward to doing it
57:30
this weekend. I hope that, you know, it
57:33
becomes I'm teaching people how to fish so they can then fish
57:38
for themselves, and it just trickles down from there.
57:42
That'd be an amazing, amazing year ahead.
57:45
Lindsay Winorski from Executive Leadership Consulting.
57:48
I want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time
57:51
and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.
57:54
Anthony, thank you so much. What an absolute pleasure.
57:56
Go Bucks. Go Bucks, folks, That's a wrap
57:59
on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
58:02
Thanks for learning with us today.