Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK Assassination - Ep. 282 - Roscoe White...Alleged Assassin

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JFK Assassination - Ep. 282 - Roscoe White...Alleged Assassin · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:03
And so my fellow American son, ask not what your country can do for
0:09
you, ask what you can do for your country. Jeans Jewry Sen,
0:15
Joey Jomy and trouble be bab and Jimboy and Joby rock Dogy Shoo Red Trimbleby
0:24
and Joby Showy and trimble be Bama timbo By said, Joby rock Docky job
0:30
a Red Army. I would taken the tip the fat chef jam is going
0:48
back and here we go and here we go, and I still can't hear
1:03
you. What the hell I heard you when I wasn't. Oh your mic
1:11
is muted? There nuts, Now can you hear me? Now? I
1:19
can hear you all right? And here we but I'm echoing on your end
1:26
for some reason, probably because I had to disconnect my mic. Hold on,
1:34
don't touch any touch anything. Okay, how about now people? Yeah,
1:42
no echo? All right, how about y'all. How about Joe?
1:48
Joe, you're good, there's no echo? Jack said, Now you can't
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hear Joe. That's because he had his mic muted. But you should be
1:56
able to hear him now, okay, gotcha, So are we all good?
1:59
No echoes? Rob and Joe are here yeah. Yeah, only nine
2:07
only nine minutes late. Oh my god, what a ship show of an
2:13
opening. Yes, we apologize, we do, but you know what,
2:17
that's what happens when we do things live and you know, things happen,
2:24
and you were just just like in life, and uh, keep it going.
2:34
Yeah, the Grimlins are in the system. What's up everybody? Oh
2:38
by the way, Rob, just so on rewatch you don't get caught off
2:44
guard. When I was holding it down, I sat on the new host
2:53
of the lone gunment and I fired Rob. I don't think many people would
3:00
have been happy with that, But of course that's not true. And I
3:05
did tease a little bit of the subject of Roscoe White and some of the
3:13
things surrounding his story and his wife, or more his wife's story and his
3:23
son's story. Right, and uh, and what was found the fourth backyard
3:31
photograph I believe versus the Pains Demor and shield Marina Roscoe White or Geneva White
3:46
correct different poses for if you count the one that Marguerite supposedly destroyed of Oswald
3:54
holding the gun above his head with both arms, there's four different The one
4:02
that Roscoe whitehead. They didn't even know about until nineteen seventy six. Yeah,
4:11
yeah, after you know the whole there's this whole story where and we
4:16
will get into this. I promise we'll get to the document, Neil,
4:23
we promise, and and things like this. Yes, and you know he
4:36
I was telling people he died the worst way you would want to go ever,
4:43
Yes, slowly and painfully. Yeah. And it wasn't an instant death.
4:48
No no. And I, uh, this is going to be a
4:55
little bit of a replay for some people, but you were not here.
5:01
This is what I played so in this and I know when when I say
5:11
the name, people are gonna be like, oh God, here we go.
5:15
This pertains. This pertains to uh, former Dallas pleaseman Roscoe White.
5:24
Hey, who the hell was that? Ah? So some it sounds like
5:29
an idiot. Well, it was very interesting because I was listening to a
5:35
quick Hits that you uh, you touched on some of Roscoe White's story Quick
5:43
Hits number thirty eight, I believe with obviously our mutual friend Doug Campbell of
5:48
the Dallas Action podcast, And there were some really interesting things that stood out
5:57
to me. And reading that and well, way back in the day,
6:04
like back in the teens of the show. I did a show called I
6:09
Was Mandarin, all about Ricky White that was many many moons ago, and
6:14
then I've touched on it here and there, and it's one of those things
6:17
where I just don't know which side of the fence to come down on.
6:19
Joe. Part of me thinks that there might be something there, and part
6:27
of me thinks that this is all a bunch of horse you know what.
6:30
But you know, there's some very intriguing things that you just can't overlook.
6:39
I think they're gonna be a little bit of both the Roscoe White story and
6:43
the Ricky White story, you know, because there is no Roscoe White story
6:47
without Ricky White, his son coming forward and Geneva. But we'll get there,
6:56
I promise, So without further ado, we've raced enough time. Joe,
7:00
kick us off and give us some of the some of the background on
7:04
this whole Rasco White story, because there's lots to it, and I will
7:13
inter interjection when needed. Sure. Well. The background is Roscoe White joined
7:24
the Marines in nineteen fifty seven. He was from Alabama, and he sailed
7:29
famously aboard the USS Spexer from SANFN San Diego to Yoko Suta, Japan,
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the same ship Lee Harvey Oswald sailed on to Japan, the same one,
7:44
folks. And that is you know, the basis of a lot of speculation,
7:51
right, But it sucks, Joe, it is. It is.
7:59
But there I was reading there were hundreds and hundreds of military personnel on this
8:07
boat, so they were not in the same unit. So Rascall White and
8:11
Lee Harvey Osweld were assigned to the first Marine Air Wing at Atsugi and later
8:20
Subjoic Bay and the Philippines, but were in different units. So it's kind
8:30
of impossible to tell if they were drinking buddies. I mean, you would
8:33
think both being Texas boys, you know, boys from Texas, they might
8:41
have known each other and connected and talked. But we don't know. We
8:50
just don't know. We just don't know. Or maybe somebody told Rascoe to
8:54
keep an eye on the Kamie weirdo. Yes, which we'll get to third
9:00
bulletpoint here, because in nineteen fifty nine Roscoe White re enlisted for six years
9:05
and this is in the Navy, and but then applied for hardship discharge,
9:15
ironically the same discharge Lee Harvey Oswalt received before defecting, you know, the
9:20
whole whatever cookie. But his mother get hit in the face with the jar
9:24
candy. Well, was it a cookie or candy? What is the candy
9:30
jar? Okay, you've got a face full of jelly beans, Joe.
9:33
Okay, Well, I could think of worse things. But of course,
9:43
a lot of the basis comes from the fact that he joined the DPD six
9:50
weeks before the JFKA. And we are being careful about what we say here
9:58
because Robi explained that we've been getting dinged a little bit. So. But
10:07
he quit the DPD in October nineteen sixty five, exactly two years to the
10:15
day of which when he joined, Yeah, to supposedly go work in the
10:20
drug store. Okay, folks, yes, you go through all this stuff
10:26
in the military. It's right up his alley to join the police force.
10:30
When he gets out in two days or two years after he joined, he's
10:35
out to go work it a drug store. Yeah. And I believe he
10:41
said something like his dream was to be a cop or something. So I
10:46
guess they didn't last too long. And September nineteen seventy one, he was
10:54
working at equipment company called M and M and was killed in an explosive fire
11:05
that took place during during work, and you guys explained it on Quick Hits.
11:11
He had some type of torch and opened a flammable container, is the
11:18
story. Uh? Yeah, now he uh. A lot of people like
11:26
to think that. See Oswald worked at Leslie Wilding Company and this was Eminem
11:33
Wilding Company. You know what eminem stands for, Joe, I don't,
11:37
Martin, and Martin knows. I'm joking. Okay, it would be cool
11:45
if it did. Okay, Well what I don't know what it stands for?
11:48
Okay, Well, I didn't want to get you upset, but I
11:52
found some interesting connections with Roscoe White, and the one of the first affections
11:58
that USSR. William Martin. Who you're confusing Roscoe Whites. Oh that's yeah.
12:09
This guy was no doctor. The guy we're talking about is no doctor.
12:13
Okay, yes, yes, you're right, that's right. Real quick,
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before we get too deep into this, I want to read a little
12:20
small excerpt because this is perfect timing about what happened to Roscoe White at work,
12:26
and this is comes from straight out the book. Folks. Uh,
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let's see the two men paused briefly at Roscoe's work bench as his boss,
12:37
A Dare, excused himself to go to the restroom. As a Dare walked
12:43
away, Roscoe picked up the welding torch and lit it. Instantly, there
12:46
was an explosion, with the force of the blast propelling a Dare across the
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shop, slamming him into a forklift his lower torso that means his bits,
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yeah, and those legs were on fire. Stood in thick black smoke blanketed
13:05
the entire shop. Seconds later, another explosion rocked the shop and the entire
13:11
work area was engulfed in a bright fireball. A five gallon container of highly
13:16
flammable and corrosive chemical liquid had been overturned and ignited by the first explosion.
13:22
The burning liquid was quickly spreading across the floor and streaming towards Roscoe. The
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fire quickly reached Roscoe's work bench and he was surrounded by a wall of fire.
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Stumbling through the intense heat and smoke, Roscoe tried to find his way
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to the nearest exit. Upon reaching the door, he found that it was
13:39
locked. With his clothes and skin burning from the chemical Roscoe was trapped in
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a wall of flame with no way out. His only hope was to reverse
13:48
direction and try to run through the flames towards the open overhead door at the
13:54
front of the shop. Staggering blindly through the chemical fire, he heard someone
14:00
shouting this way. Moving towards the voice, Roscoe could make out a tiny
14:05
sliver of light from the overhead door, and seconds later he stumbled into the
14:07
parking lot. In the swirling heat, smoking fire, Roscoe saw a man
14:13
running from the shop carrying a briefcase. He recognized a man and thought to
14:16
himself, that's it. They got me. At that point, he realized
14:22
the fire was no accident but a deliberate act, and he was the intended
14:26
target. So who Yeah, apparently Roscoe White believed that this was an attempted
14:41
murder on his person, and his friends and employees did as well. Yeah,
14:50
so very interesting stuff. Yes, one of his coworkers was also burned
14:56
but survived and poor uh this poor guy died the next day of his wounds.
15:09
Okay, twenty four hours later, h and allegedly told the pastor about
15:18
all his murders on his deathbed, Pastor Jack Shaw, Yes, reverend,
15:28
reverend pastor, they were all fake, all fake bishops and uh, that's
15:37
where I guess some of his alleged confessions came from. Although there's not much
15:48
details on it, I'm gonna I have a little bit on it. The
15:52
poors will tell you that, you know, this, this Reverend Jack Shaw
16:00
story has changed over time, which is of course a giant red flag for
16:07
any of these storytellers associated with the case. But again, the man is
16:12
a minister or a reverend, a man of God, somebody who shouldn't be
16:17
lying. So there's that. And of course, you know, I doubt
16:22
he's trying to profit in any way from any of this. So no,
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you know, do we believe the reverend that, you know, Roscer White
16:30
said all this stuff on his deathbed. Hard to argue with them, I
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you know what, I'm just very skeptical of deathbed confessions, of diaries,
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of notebooks of whatever, those type of items that could be reproduced, like
17:00
like a certain diary that is famous or that is a big point of contention,
17:07
and the hey, speaking of that Joe Community book as well. They
17:11
go through some of the famous diaries of history, James Wilkes Booth's diary See
17:17
Her Hands, Her Hands Diary, Arthur Bremmer, the guy who was going
17:22
for Nixon. He had a diary. Mary pincho Meyer had a diary.
17:26
Marilyn Moreau had a diary. Alan Pope had a diary. Who the hell
17:32
was that Pretchuck Flouty's Fletcher Prouty is a source on that guy, So we'll
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skip that. Oh yeah, Lee Harvey Oswald had a historic diary which we
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talked about here before, and that brings us to Roscoe White's diary. Okay,
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that Ricky White allegedly found in nineteen eighty two. Yes, so you
18:00
got to think of the timeline here. Right when I was listening to the
18:07
quick Hits today, actually re listening, you were talking about an insurance policy
18:15
they had taken out on Roscoe White and the beneficiary was the employer, which
18:23
was a little suss. However, there was a separate insurance plan that was
18:33
his wife, Geneva, made out one hundred thousand dollars, which was a
18:37
cool mill back then. And I don't know, it's a weird thing,
18:47
but there is. There's certainty that he had expertise in photography. He was
18:59
in the marine with Lee Harvey Oswald on the same ship, not on the
19:03
same unit. And obviously we'll look at some of the backyard photos and the
19:10
wrist and his wife who allegedly worked for Jack Ruby as a stripper for three
19:17
weeks. And I have been looking and trying to confirm that one hundred percent,
19:29
because she of course later denied that right after the breaking of her home,
19:36
and you know, she wanted nothing to do with this, and it's
19:47
very I'm going to show you the believed picture of her. Well, I
19:56
can confirm that that picture that Joe's about to show you is in this book.
20:03
And so to me, that is since Ricky White wrote the book through
20:11
Gary Shaw and Brian Edwards, that Ricky White confirms that this is his mother
20:18
in the presence of Jack Ruby, and that she worked there in the fall
20:21
of nineteen sixty three. Yeah, and disregard the title, by the way,
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uh because here, yes, as the photo captions the admitted assassin's wife,
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Geneva poses and goes to work for Roscoe's friend Jack Ruby in September of
20:36
nineteen sixty three, as Roscoe goes on to work for the Dallas Police Department
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on October seventh, nineteen sixty three. So yeah, yeah, can you
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yeah, are youssuming in on there? Boy? Because do I have to
20:59
explain? M hm, Well, do you like that? That's a sweet
21:03
haircut? We called it, Darth Vader. I mean you go to the
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haircuttering. I asked, what you want? You say, I want to
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Darth Vader. I mean yeah, I mean I would have gone to the
21:15
carouselts. You know. Uh, that's a little too bony for your boy,
21:19
A little bit more meat on the bones there. Oh yeah, yeah,
21:26
okay, So what is your stance on was did you work for Jack
21:33
Ruby for three weeks as a stripper? Well? I was before I saw
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the picture in Ricky White's book. I mean, if it's in Ricky's White
21:42
White's book and he's saying that that that is his mother, you can't argue
21:48
with it, you Okay, I'm gonna play Devil's advocate. What if you
21:57
put it in there to make the connection to Ruby for money? You know,
22:04
he doesn't really need the connection to Ruby. I mean, yeah,
22:07
it's a nice little side story that his mom worked for Ruby, But okay,
22:12
I mean you don't need that part of the story. A side story,
22:18
but a story that proves a connection between I mean, Ruby had many
22:26
connections within the DPD. We all know this, uh, I lean,
22:33
yes, she was as well. I don't know. I was just kind
22:37
of playing devil's advocate. Well, I have heard that people think that that's
22:42
not her, you know, but you know, if Ricky White says that's
22:52
his mother, then in the book and that's his mother. Oh, I
22:56
agree. Plenty of photos of her or out there, you know. And
23:03
this information has been alleged for many, many years. Many web you the
23:11
man, Yes, thank you, colonel, thank you. And okay,
23:19
so I'm going to share the next picture, which is the COMPARI it's not
23:26
the backyard photo comparison, it's the risk comparison photo that would bump on the
23:33
wrist that seems too along with the chin seems to indicate that this backyard photo
23:44
was possibly doctored, right, photo shopped. And well, look, I
23:52
mean if you really look at if you really look at Oswald's head, okay,
23:57
on this body, to me, something doesn't look right now people have
24:04
done. I mean, his head looks way too big for his body on
24:08
the right there, I just I don't know, his neck looks huge and
24:12
he has a little face. It's just weird. It's just a weird looking
24:15
picture. His neck does look very large compared to and look at his arms
24:22
like he was like one sixty, wasn't it, Like, yeah, somewhere
24:27
in that neighborhood. But Rasco White probably wasn't much different in weight height.
24:34
Sure, Sure, it's just a weird looking picture all around like it is.
24:40
And if you really zoom in on on like his his temple area of
24:44
his head, it almost is like you can see another hairline. I don't
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know, it's just to me, I always thought this photo looked doctored as
24:55
hell, along with the shadow analysis has been done on here, along with
25:00
people looking at the the flowering patterns of the foliage in the background, because
25:07
supposedly this picture was that neely, right, was that neely? And it
25:12
had to be in late March, and you know certain certain things were either
25:18
in bloom or hadn't bloomed yet. But you know, a lot of that's
25:23
hard to say. There's problems with the rifle, of course, being the
25:27
one, the same one that ended up in evidence later, the strap the
25:33
sarcastic counter or fascists was that on the morn shields or worn shields. But
25:42
ah, but yeah, I mean it's odd. I mean people, I
25:48
mean everybody doesn't have a wrist bump like that. It is odd. I
25:56
mean, some people do have a wrist bump, but some people don't.
26:03
Is it? Does that prove it definitively? Him? You know I have
26:07
a wrist bum. Yeah, you are the backyard photographer. I do not
26:12
have a wristk bu see, but that's from falling off the scooter and the
26:18
summer before, falling in tennis and paddle with my girlfriend. So I broke
26:26
my fall and my wrist three times. So pretty sure it's a hairline fracture.
26:32
But I still go to the gym and say fuck it. Whoops.
26:37
Uh but uh, okay, let me get to some of the the rest
26:45
of this. Uh well, real quick, Joe, before you get too
26:53
far, let's show ready this one? Yeah, please do all right.
26:57
So we showed this at the beginning and at the far right of the middle
27:03
picture where there's four of them across, you know, and everybody always says,
27:08
how that's a you know, a really weird way to stand or pose,
27:15
you know, the way that the legs are angled and stuff. And
27:18
so the picture all the way on the right is a picture of Roscoe,
27:21
you know, standing in the ocean, and this weird pose where he's putting
27:25
all of his weight looks like most of his weight on his right right leg
27:30
and his left leg is kind of cocked out, and that kind of matches,
27:36
you know, the Oswald backyard posing, you know, which is is
27:41
odd. It's just damn odd. And not to mention. When I was
27:47
listening to quick Hits, you were reading a document where his wife Geneva because
27:53
they were both having affairs at the time. Correct, I believe so,
28:00
yeah, And uh, Roscoe threatened Geneva and said, if you do something,
28:08
I'm gonna create a photo with you of some guy in bed and that
28:15
will be grounds for divorce. Quick. It's thirty eight uh and uh yeah,
28:23
And that's what he was at the police department, right, it was
28:27
the photography division. Yes, so let's end. Let's add him up here
28:36
on the boat with Oswald dpd Uh the same stupid discharge excuse and then the
28:48
one you just said, what the stance? But also uh, I just
28:59
lost trying to though. But the other coincidences of of roscill White and there
29:07
are also some allegations, there's plenty that he was in New Orleans, that
29:15
he was part of the Tippet murder. I'm going to show you a couple
29:19
of those slides from a couple of books in a second, and uh,
29:25
I mean there's definitely enough. There was shown this picture after he was arrested.
29:33
He said, he even said it's been doctored. It's not me.
29:37
Somebody put my faith on this picture. He said he could prove it.
29:44
So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly right now.
29:48
Something about the backyard photographs, Joe, that I didn't know real quick before
29:52
we get too shure. Sure. So the copy that ross a white hat
30:00
is called one thirty three dash c okay, which nobody had seen before publicly
30:07
until you know, the House Select Committee got it from Geneva White. But
30:17
let's see where is it? Oh, so got Gus Rose found a brown
30:26
cardboard box containing books, papers, and photographs, and there was two Prince
30:30
of Oswald holding the rifle, each showing him from a slightly different pose.
30:33
There was a negative from one of the prints that had been made that were
30:37
taking the police headquarters. One was CE one thirty three A, the other
30:41
post CE one thirty three B. When they asked Marina how many pictures she
30:51
took, first she said one, then she said two, and then first
30:55
she said it was the end of February beginning in March, but he hadn't
30:57
even got the rifle yet by then, So then she changed her story to
31:00
the end of March beginning in April. And it just went on and on,
31:06
and you know, she was like, you know, in between each
31:07
picture, also had to come over and wind the camera for me, you
31:11
know, and all this stuff. Yeah, but I was reading somewhere.
31:19
Well, I have a surprise for you later regarding one of the questions mister
31:26
Douglas had on who Roscoe White's mistress was and where she worked, because I
31:37
might have found it. Oh yeah, And he was, right, Alex,
31:45
we'll get there, I promise, Yes, Okay, here we go.
31:52
So about the print one thirty three C. Right, yeah, man,
32:01
script George. Two additional first generation prints, one of one thirty three
32:07
A and one of one thirty three C. That's the Roscoe White one.
32:13
We're also obtained by the House Select Committee from former Dallas police detective Richard Stoveall
32:20
on April fourteenth, nineteen seventy eight. Stovevall was among the police officers who
32:23
discovered the backyard photos during a search of the Pain's house. On November twenty
32:29
third, nineteen sixty three. So this guy, Richard Stoveall, also had
32:37
a photo of the Roscoe White pose in his personal belongings that had never been
32:45
made public before. I did not know that. Wow. Well you theorized
32:50
on your Quickheads episode that if Roscoe White did make a copy or did doctor
33:00
the backyard photo, he would have probably not made those copies at the DPD.
33:06
He would have outsourced it to Okay, I'll end the tease here his
33:10
mistress who allegedly worked at Jackson Starres Stovall And what name did you just mention?
33:20
Rob something Snowfall. Wonder if that's connected, way man a detective,
33:31
well, some bitch detective Richard Stowball, Jagger Child Stoveball. I wonder if
33:37
they are related somehow. That's a good catch, Joe. Somebody out there
33:44
and need to do some digging on that one. Because we have a good
33:47
community. Hey, let's uh, let's start a locals thread and let's uh
33:54
let's get on him. I could use my ancestry thing. Uh, you
34:00
know, you'll have business registrations. Although I don't think he outsourced the if.
34:07
I think if anybody faked those photos, it was him. But right,
34:12
I don't think he outsourced to some chick. No, not outsourced in
34:16
a sense, but but not done at DPD headquarters because well, he claimed
34:29
he could have done it of course, of course, uh the equipment.
34:34
He did not want other DPD officers to know that he had the copy.
34:39
So what you're saying is a sad piece could have let him in the door
34:45
after hours Jagger's chise. Yeah, yeah, and they probably did some dirty
34:52
work while it was like in the black room, you know, in that
34:57
or him and Oswald could have been doing this for some weird reason. Right,
35:01
Well, that's another connection, right, Yeah, they knew each other
35:07
in the Marines, if they actually talked to each other, if they became
35:10
friends once they came back to Texas, who knows, I mean, uh,
35:16
you know, they could have been feeding each other, you know,
35:20
lines of bs about you know, why they're doing what they're doing things.
35:24
You know, Roscoe could have been told to help set this guy up.
35:28
Yeah, you know, who knows. Yeah, very interesting, very interesting,
35:34
But it would have definitely been uh uh Bungles had weird and control and
35:40
yeah, it would have been compartmentalized. Roscoe might not have known the the
35:49
end, uh you know, plan of the plotters. But he might he
35:54
could have served a role if he was on the grass you know, if
35:58
he if he killed j D. And if he started killing on the witness
36:01
list and he knew what was going on. If that is true, yes,
36:08
I mean he was dude, he was mandering, that's true. But
36:13
the question we all face is if was he on the Grassy Knoll. Beverly
36:22
Oliver said she saw him on the Grassy Knoll as badge man. Correct,
36:29
correct, But there was also who was it Bobby Hargas one of the motorcycle
36:35
cops that they saw opposite of j D. Martin. And there was someone
36:40
else, uh a Mike Robinson, Yes, yes, overheard, uh some
36:47
police officers as he was in the bathroom. Let me see where can find
36:52
that real quick? Uh something Walt Brown you talk about? Yep? Are
37:12
you talking about, mister trec I have a couple Walt Brown things. I
37:15
think here it is Mike Robinson. Okay, this is the Mike Robinson story,
37:22
folks from Walt Brown. November twenty second, nineteen ninety three was the
37:28
thirteenth anniversary of the tragedy in Dealey Plaza. Thirtieth sorry, and as such
37:34
was the ocasion for the dedication of the area's a historic landmark. Blah blah
37:37
blah, blah blah. I found myself next to Mike Robinson blah blah blah
37:40
blah blah, talking to him, contacted him. He was fourteen year old.
37:46
Fourteen years old today the president was killed, and I had been sixteenth
37:52
at the time. This is Walt Brown speaking. I felt I could relate
37:54
to the emotions. He told them he had watched the motorcate at Maine in
37:59
Harwood, Order, where Dallas Police Headquarters was located, with a friend whose
38:02
father was a higher up in the police. I have since been able to
38:07
confirm the existence of both the friend his father's rank and his father's perhaps too
38:13
deep curiosity as to the events of November twenty second. As the motorcycle passed,
38:19
the boys went to a theater, bought their tickets and popcorn, and
38:22
then heard the rapidly spreading news that the president had been shot. Figuring that
38:27
headquarters will be the center of action, he and his friend hastened back there
38:30
in time to get to the third floor, check in with the friend's dad,
38:35
and then see Lee Oswald being led out of the elevator. Since this
38:38
was a once in a lifetime adventure for a young boy, and since the
38:42
media were mob in the area, they stayed and observed that things going on.
38:46
Mike indicated that he overheard a conversation that it was clear to anyone who
38:52
was talking that the police were convinced beyond all reasonable doubt, even as early
38:55
as two thirty that Oswald was the culprint on both counts. Let's give you
39:01
the good part. Mike and his friend saw Oswald moved from the various places
39:07
he was shunted to, and also saw him inside one of the glass homicide
39:12
cubicles. Mike also saw Bobby Hargas the motorcycle officers were splattered by particulate matter
39:19
from the president, blood and brain matter on him. Uh. He literally
39:24
slammed his helmet into a wall and literally went berserk, requiring a number of
39:29
other officers to restrain him. Yeah, the right wing guy that yeah,
39:37
okay, maybe he's just pissed. He get a suit dirty, you know
39:40
who knows? Yeah, I think that more likely. This afternoon approached evening,
39:46
a trip to the restroom became an absolute necessity, but with extra police
39:52
and the media on the third floor. It was damn near impossible. When
39:54
you gotta go, you gotta go. So Mike was taken by the ranking
39:59
officer whose son he was with, down to the lowest level of the building,
40:02
where the officers had their lockers, and told that the restroom was just
40:07
past the locker room. While in the toilet taking a dump, the enormity
40:12
of events hit Mike hard, and he became emotional about them now as he
40:15
found himself literally alone with the knowledge that the president he had waved too just
40:21
a few hours earlier was now in a coffin. As this emotional turmoil came
40:24
upon him, the restroom's serenity was broken by the fart by the arrival of
40:30
three individuals. Not to appear a sissy or be embarrassed, Mike lifted his
40:36
feet and hid in the stall so that anyone observing would think that only the
40:42
three men who had just entered were present. Their brief conversation forever changed Mike
40:47
Robinson's life. Initially, there were whispers, but eventually one individual and these
40:52
people were police or police related, and the officer's restroom vented some anger through
40:57
gritted teeth with appropriate profanity to make statements that add great credence to the thesis
41:05
enunciated herein. As Mike Robinson reconstructs the statements, their order was this,
41:13
someone says, angrily, you knew you were supposed to kill Lee, followed
41:17
by icy silence. Then the same voice, in the same nasty tone,
41:21
said, then, you stupid son of a bitch, you go and kill
41:24
a cop. At this point, another individual entered the room, and the
41:29
first three fell silent. The newcomer, who Mike could identify as wearing blue,
41:35
did his business, flush yer and on left. The original three men
41:37
then concluded, well, Lee will have to be killed before they'd take him
41:42
to Washington. Naturally, uncomfortable with what he'd heard, Mike remained in his
41:45
hideout for a decent span of time after the three men left the room.
41:50
Then he left. As he passed through the police locker room, one officer,
41:53
in the process of changing his clothes stared at Mike as if to say,
41:58
were you in there when we were? Having been shown every available photo
42:01
of officers in the Dallas Police Force at that time, Mike Robinson believed that
42:07
the man who stared at him in a menacing way, can I guess Roscoe
42:14
White ding Ding ding dinging winter winter chicken dinner points points points for the Sexy
42:23
Beast to the northeast. Please don't say that you made it. I'm never
42:29
liking to go. In fact, I'm going to change Joe be to that
42:34
next time. Okay, all right, sounds good, Yeah, pray Pray
42:37
continued Joe. I just wanted to, you know, add some more fuel
42:40
to the fire to some people who have seen or heard or want to put
42:45
Roscoe White on the know or have him say in some crazy things that incriminating
42:52
things. Yeah, I love it. I love it. So I'm just
42:59
sharing an HSCA document that essentially confirms that the d's white. Yes, yeah,
43:12
yeah, to I believe there was made a name where the person you
43:17
married after Honora. I don't know for sure, but there were Roscale White
43:23
photos of Oswalt and the index. And there was also what the rifle,
43:30
which I believe was in their book right, yes, okay, I'll let
43:37
you get into that later. So we went through that. So just a
43:43
couple of things I found in a couple of books. In the book Conspiracy,
43:46
Matthew Smith advances the theory that G. Tippett had been asked by Roscale
43:51
White to be in the vicinity in order to drive a CAA agent to the
43:57
Redbird airfield. Today. I have a feeling Redbird might come into your book.
44:04
This is the reason tipp it. It's the same story, right,
44:07
That's my point. They keep recycling it at his son. I mean,
44:15
this is the reason Tippet's police cars in this particular area of Dallas while their
44:20
call cars are in Dealey Plaza. Believe. Smith believes Tippitt here's the description
44:30
of the alleged assassin over the radio, and begins to think he's been set
44:34
up, theorizing that it's Roscoe White who shoots Tippett, after which Lee Harvey
44:40
Oswalt rushes to the Texas Theater, going to the nearest theater. As procedure,
44:47
CIA Assets agents are told to follow if they ever get in trouble.
44:53
I don't know about that. Yeah, I'm completely with you there. Smith
45:00
says that Roscoe White fits the description given by some Tippety with murder witnesses.
45:05
What she does kind of short, ky, have you set with the black
45:07
bushy hair where he's wearing his twope, his two pey yes, and the
45:15
bottom is I believe it's in the same book. It might be from a
45:22
different book, but it doesn't do with the backyard photo. When Dallas police
45:25
officers arrived to search the Pain residents, they are met by sheriff officers who
45:31
have the jurisdiction, but choose to leave the search to the locals. At
45:35
quitting time, not much to be on a blanket had been found yet the
45:38
day after the now famous backyard photos will be quote found in quotation marks at
45:45
the Pain residence. Another quote backyard photograph and quote will eventually turn up in
45:52
the possession of Roscoe White. So I don't know what us up here real
45:58
quick. Yeah, Jeff Carter argues that Geneva's White Geneva Whites lost backyard photo
46:06
was shown to Michael Payne by the FBI on the November twenty second, the
46:09
day before the DVD found the other backyard photos. Well, look, Jeff
46:15
Carter's an idiot, that's what. That's all I can say about that.
46:20
He also thinks Fletcher Proudy with somebody as well. So I don't put much
46:27
faith in what Jeff Carter says. So was he was he sent to our
46:30
favorite place, Antarctica so he could be so he could not protect Kennedy.
46:39
Yeah, I mean, I don't know what. I've never seen anything that
46:42
says Michael Payne was shown the backyard photograph on November twenty second. No,
46:50
but if you have a document that's cecil, please posted on locals and let's
46:55
talk about it. Look it out. We are open to them. Any
47:00
evidence. We have no steak in Roscoe White. You don't have a book
47:07
about him. I keep going back and forth. Man, I'm a flip
47:10
flopper on this. I am want to believe in part of these things.
47:15
Well, that's because there's enough there with the marines, the boat, the
47:21
photography, the dpdo I know. So that is the conundrum here, Right,
47:35
you have his kids since sensationalizing the story in a sense, would you
47:40
agree? I don't know if they're sensationalizing it. I mean I haven't read
47:45
the book. So you have look one quick, one quick story in the
47:51
book that I hadn't heard before. Okay, lay it on me so you
47:55
can see here there's a picture of two keys found to the safe deposit box.
48:02
There were safe deposit boxes, right, and they were found in a
48:07
bank bag for the wind Wood Bank, which had a branch in oak Cliff
48:12
on West Illinois Street. So apparently him and Geneva arrived at the oak Cliff
48:22
branch in nineteen eighty seven of the wind Wood Bank and after showing identification and
48:27
Roscoe was death certificate, they were escorted into the vault using the key stamp
48:30
with the number two H three the mosler key. So can I stop you?
48:36
Yeah? You said eighty seven? Yeah, okay, when does the
48:40
book come out? This book? Yeah? Last year? Okay. You
48:49
talked on quick hits about the trust running out at some point, and I'm
48:55
talking about the monetary uh motivation here? Uh? Why wait from HCA to
49:07
late eighties to to figure this out because he had just found the bank bag
49:17
Joe okay in the foot locker, right that also had oh, let me
49:30
find it the foot locker, trying to figure out when they found a foot
49:37
locker. I'll see, hmm. Here it is the long lost foot locker.
49:54
In October of nineteen eighty two, eighty two, he was five.
50:00
When Weldon Tolan died, they returned to the home in Paris, Texas.
50:07
Ricky's cousins went to a small shed the corner of the property, hoping to
50:10
find some antiques in an old upright piano they remember playing his children right.
50:15
It was their grandfather's house. It was panted next to the piano under several
50:21
layers of cardboard blankets. They discovered a green trunk with the name Roscoe a
50:25
white one six sixty six one oh six stenciled on the lid and white paint.
50:30
And there they have a picture of Roscoe White's Marine Corps foot locker right
50:36
there. Okay, is that white or is that gray or brown? Well,
50:44
the lettering is white and it's green. Okay, that makes sense.
50:47
The trunk was not locked. There's a shirt in there identified the team's name
50:53
and Roscoe's Marine Corps unit. The bottom of the trunk, Ricky found his
50:58
father's swagger stick. Dick was a thin wood shaft top with an empty rifle
51:01
casing swagger Yeah, rifle casing the sergeant's emblem on one end. You missed
51:09
that one man. You had an opportunity there. Well, it wasn't the
51:14
magic stick. Who was the swagger stick? That could be Even if you
51:19
found Roscoe's magic stick in this trunk, it probably would have looked like a
51:24
burnt limb. I'm trying to find out what the date is that they found
51:32
this thing. But anyway, in the trunk they found a bunch of stuff,
51:36
a bunch of other stuff, and his bank bag was in the trunk.
51:39
Also in the trunk was a bunch of stuff. Uh. Two backyard
51:47
photos, Leoswald mug shot, a photo of le Oswald's autopsy, a photo
51:52
from the inside the sniper's nest of the TSBD, individual photos of Ruby and
51:58
Tippett, letters to and from Roscoe when he was in the Marines. And
52:00
numerous official cram scene photos of evidence recovered by the Dallas Police. And they
52:07
have a picture of all this crap laid out on a table what you can
52:10
see here supposedly from the foot locker. Wait, so shart it again.
52:15
I'm sorry. I was responding to a comment. Can you straighten out a
52:22
little bit? And this is what again? Every foot locker, everything that
52:29
was in there. Okay, there's a bank bag, the keys found in
52:34
it. Oh, the keys were found in in the money bag. And
52:37
then and then, uh, that was the safe deposit box in Fort Worth
52:45
or was in Paris, France or I thought it's at Paris, France,
52:50
but it's Paris, Texas. Uh. The safe deposit box was in Dallas
52:54
Winwood State Bank, Dallas, Texas. All right, back to this,
53:00
So in nineteen eighty seven, Ricky and Geneva arrived unannounced at the Oak Cliff
53:07
branch of the Windwood Bank and after showing identification and Roscoe as death certificate,
53:12
they were escorted into the vault using the key stamp with the number two oh
53:15
three. The bank rep verified the key was for a box in their vault.
53:21
However, the other key from the bank bag did not correspond to any
53:23
safe deposit boxes at the branch. Okay, But so one of the two
53:30
keys worked with the key from the bank and the master key from the bank
53:35
representative. Box two three was opened, and once opened, Ricky told the
53:38
authors it was plumb full of bearer bonds. Now, mister fintech, what
53:46
is a bearer bond? Uh? I it's probably the so back in the
53:54
day they had when you were to buy shares in the company, who would
54:00
actually send you physical bond certificates? Right? Some people have them. A
54:07
lot of people I worked with had them, like the old school ones,
54:09
framed in their office. So I think that's what that is. It's it's
54:15
it's it's bonds that are a cueing interest. I believe correct, and bear
54:24
means whoever has them can get the money, right bearer bonds. They're not
54:30
in anybody's name. Basically, it's just you have these bonds and their bearer,
54:36
whoever bears them to the you know, I believe so yes, can
54:39
get I'm like ninety five percent confident you're correct, yes, But yeah,
54:45
so you're just yeah, maybe he invested in like Apple on the sixties or
54:52
something, or maybe there is some Jackson Styri Stovall all bonds there too.
55:02
But the bank representative removed the bank's contents one at a time and placed them
55:07
on top of the table in the vault. But neither Geneva or Ricky was
55:12
permitted to touch the bonds because the bonds. Neither Geneva or Ricky was permitted
55:21
to handle the bonds, which means they were not able to bear them.
55:29
They just weren't allowed to touch them. Yet. Well that means stake possession
55:32
as well. You Just as the bonds were being counted, Ricky remembers the
55:37
bank employee remained in the vault and wrote an inventory of the bonds along with
55:43
each bond's denomination. After the bonds were counted. The bank employee gave a
55:46
handwritten receipt to Geneva. Eventually, Ricky gave this receipt to Larry Howard at
55:52
the JFK Assassination Information Center in Dallas. Ricky remembers the receipt showed the bonds
56:00
totaled anywhere from two hundred thousand dollars or two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
56:06
The current location of the receipt is unknown due to the closure of the JFK
56:12
Assassination Information Center. Yes, that's about two point five million, and that's
56:17
a lot of money. It's a lot of money, and I mean it
56:23
probably was half that by the late eighties, Joe. I mean, this
56:27
wasn't nineteen oh yeah, yeah yeah, So it's like probably like all million,
56:31
yeah yeah, but still nothing to sneeze a right, So rick and
56:37
Geneva were not allowed to leave with the bonds until they could show proof that
56:39
Roscoe's will had been through probate. Yes, so basically the bank representative was
56:45
inventorying the contents of the safety deposit box, but they couldn't touch them.
56:51
Yes, probate is still as a lawyer scam to hold your money and make
56:59
you for lawyers until you can get it right. It is my best description
57:04
of that. And my girlfriend's a lawyer, so I hope she doesn't listen.
57:09
Oh oh, getting in trouble watch out now, but lawyer on that
57:22
part of the story that was in there. This is an interesting time of
57:30
the story, the late eighties, because this is right before you know,
57:36
Ricky White became public with all this stuff, right, and actually because of
57:45
this incident at the bank, or I guess that's what you could call it.
57:52
Here it is Ricky and his wife and Geneva and anybody with the last
57:59
name White in Midland County. Basically we're subject to this. This document wasn't
58:06
released until the mid nineties. Was secret City of Dallas, City of Dallas
58:14
secret document. Okay, okay, stamp secret all over okay, and it
58:22
is too or it's dated January twenty eight, nineteen eighty eight, to Captain
58:29
Rowlins of the Intelligence Division, subject requests for assistance from Midland County DA's office.
58:39
So Ricky White reached out for help to the District Attorney's Office of Midland
58:51
County. And what this basically states is that on December thirtieth, nineteen eighty
58:58
seven, Investigator JDS Lucky of Midland County District Attorney's Office contacted the Intelligence Division
59:06
for information on a former officer, Roscoe Anthony White. Investigator Lucky stated that
59:13
their office had been contacted by White's son, who stated that he had found
59:15
a diary, pictures, and two hundred thousand cash which his dad had left
59:21
to him and his brother. So there's money all over the place. Yeah,
59:27
all over the place. Yeah. I wonder if they mean cash says
59:30
in the bombs maybe or and thank you Colonel reb who just gave another ten
59:38
dollars. Oh, man, you are the man he is. I bless
59:42
you, sir mister. He asked the question, how many files do you
59:47
think will be released once Ruth Payne croaks rob Oh, hopefully hundreds. I'm
59:58
not exactly sure how many still are being held back about the pains, but
1:00:05
uh, it'll be interesting to see for sure. And isn't it funny that
1:00:09
like, like, I don't to me personally, I don't have much faith
1:00:15
that if once Ruth dies that you know, a ton of files are going
1:00:22
to be released on her. You know, she's been loyal, she's been
1:00:25
a company woman for her whole life. She's had this same story. She's
1:00:34
her sister and her father were CIA. I don't see it personally. Maybe
1:00:43
some tidbits that people like us could go through and get some more contexts,
1:00:47
But in terms of a good soldier, yeah, they like taking care of
1:00:52
her. Yeah, they're not going to just release Yeah, they're not going
1:00:55
to just call her a liar, like release files that I will say she's
1:01:00
a liar her whole life writer after she dies. Right, this doesn't make
1:01:04
sense, So that would be the answer, Colonel Rudd from both of yes,
1:01:08
and thank you again. So, mister White told Investigator Lucky that there
1:01:14
was a possibility that his dad had been involved in the Kennedy assassination. Mister
1:01:19
White alleged that his father had known Lee Harvey Oswald and had been involved with
1:01:22
an unknown woman who worked at the school book depository. Side piece alert.
1:01:30
Investigator Lucky stated that they were just getting bits and pieces from the sun and
1:01:35
that he was being very cautious with the information. Investigator Lucky asked for assistance
1:01:39
in verifying information. Roscoe White was hired by the Dallas Police Department on October
1:01:45
seventh, sixty three. He attended recruit class seventy nine from December fourth,
1:01:50
sixty three to February twenty eight, sixty four, and he resigned on October
1:01:54
seventh, two years to the date after he started to accept an deployment position
1:02:00
with Page drug Store. Well, Monday, January fourth, nineteen eighty eight,
1:02:06
inventory or investigator Lucky You came to Dallas, him and Special Agent Kenneth
1:02:10
Bersono of the FBI, and I attempted to locate the savings and loan described
1:02:15
by Ricky White, which allegedly held a safety deposit box containing two hundred thousand
1:02:20
dollars in bear bonds. We were unable to discover the location because that clever
1:02:27
bank had changed their name. Apparently they got absorbed by another bank and they
1:02:31
couldn't figure out exactly where this bank was. Oh man, well, that
1:02:37
is frequent small banks getting acquired, but losing losing assets in a safety positive
1:02:46
box is not. I mean especially, I mean the location's not going anywhere.
1:02:52
They just put a new sign on it over the door, you know,
1:02:54
exactly. It's no longer this bank now it's this bank. Okay.
1:03:00
But anyway, we were unable to discover the location. I gave Lucky and
1:03:02
Bersano all the information we had on Roscoe White, excuse me. On January
1:03:07
twenty sixth, nineteen eighty eight, I was contacted by Lucky, who stated
1:03:12
that the FBI had taken over the entire investigation. Lucky said that the FBI
1:03:15
had met with Reey White, had seen the pictures and the diary, and
1:03:20
there was nothing to what had been alleged by mister White. Investigator Lucky stated
1:03:24
he has not been in contact with mister White since the FBI talked to him.
1:03:30
Lucky stated he was able to determine that Roscoe White and Lee Harvey Aishold
1:03:32
were in the Marines together and both served a tour in a light helicopter unit
1:03:37
in El Toro, California at the same time, but does not know if
1:03:42
they actually physically knew each other. He has been unable to confirm that Roscuer
1:03:47
White was involved with any woman at the school book depository, and Investigator Lucky
1:03:52
stated that he has been told to withdraw from the investigation and let the FBI
1:03:57
handle it. Since we were only assisting Midland County DA's office with their investigation
1:04:02
and they are now withdrawing from the investigation, I recommend this investigation to be
1:04:06
closed pending for the requests for a six assistance. So, sincerely, Jack
1:04:12
Beaver's Corporal Investigator, Intelligence Division, Public Integrity Section of the d p D.
1:04:23
Now, what's interesting when I when I went looking and I went looking
1:04:28
Joe for stuff about the FBI official documents, and I found some over at
1:04:39
Baylor University, John Armstrong, he comes through in the clutch. Yeah.
1:04:46
So, and just to quick, there's there's pages and pages and pages of
1:04:58
they have the actual pages from the FBI physical surveillance notes of Ricky White,
1:05:04
Geneva White, his wife Tricia White for like a month period. During all
1:05:12
this, the FBI was following them everywhere everywhere and likely had their house bugged
1:05:19
as well, phones bugged, tapped, and they were being physically surveiled everywhere
1:05:27
they went, maybe a room rented next door or a house. Yeah,
1:05:33
so the FBI was definitely interested in Ricky White and definitely checking on them,
1:05:44
you know, figuring out where they're going, what banks are going to,
1:05:47
and looking into all this stuff. And oh, by the way, according
1:05:53
to Ricky White, they never did get the two hundred thousand in Barra bonds
1:05:56
out of this bank. But yeah, what are you gonna say? Joe
1:06:01
before I, uh no, it's just uh, I was just thinking of
1:06:08
the timeline and them trying. You know, their trust had run out at
1:06:14
that point, and their mother is sick right with cancer and they can't get
1:06:25
these bombs. I think two. At the time, Geneva had faked the
1:06:30
diary. Yes, she was caught doing that. The FBI supposedly stole the
1:06:35
diary, okay, from their house, like they left and then came back
1:06:42
and stole it and took it. And after they realized, they were like,
1:06:46
oh my god, the FBI just stole this thing and they never did
1:06:49
get it back. So what Geneva did, I guess, with the help
1:06:54
of her son, was create another copy of this diary that allegedly, you
1:07:02
know, was supposedly not necessarily word for word what was in Roscoe's diary,
1:07:09
but basically the same gist of it. But they determined from the handwriting Geneva
1:07:15
and not Roscoe White's handwriting. And Colonel rib I see this yellow pop up
1:07:21
all over the place. Man, you are coming through big time, Colonel
1:07:29
Reb what's this Michael Payne's bill helicopter connection made a ton in the Vietnam War.
1:07:34
Yeah, but they I mean, they were well off the pains,
1:07:45
very well off, and that's before the assassination. So it would be interesting
1:07:54
just to know how much you need post and how long he worked at Bell
1:08:02
Helicopter after. Yeah, they definitely made a ton off the Vietnam War for
1:08:13
sure. Oh yeah, but I always bring it back to Roscoe. Yes,
1:08:18
right, so here, And I don't know where this comes from.
1:08:30
I know it comes from Baylor and John Armstrong, but I don't know what
1:08:34
the sourcing of it. It says there's two short pages, but so powerful
1:08:40
and shocking in their contact that Ricky cannot take his eyes from his father's writing.
1:08:44
So this is allegedly from Roscoe White's diary. Eleven sixty three, Lebanon,
1:08:49
sixth floor, Saul Records Building, Mandarin Stockade. Fence shots fired from
1:08:57
upper buildings for diversion shots fire looks as if target was hit. Shot from
1:09:01
the fence, definite hit. Man on the other side of fence in the
1:09:05
way. Shots again from upper buildings, no hit target opened fire, definite
1:09:11
hit gun retrieved by man to the side. Took the railcar area world over
1:09:15
fence, took man down to protect myself, ran around back a fence down
1:09:20
embankment to car, drove to oak Cliffe met officer told officer not to drive
1:09:26
by a house. Something was at this point wrong. Forced to take out
1:09:30
officer at Tenton patent not going as plan. Backtracked to car, drove back
1:09:35
to the area to take out and locate another passenger, failed to transport subject
1:09:42
to Redbird Airport. Realized what a mistake I had made. Hope it is
1:09:45
all over. Back to DPD awaiting information. Uh says. Ricky was extremely
1:09:53
agitated and distressed, and what he had just read in his father's own handwriting
1:09:57
recalling the conversation in seventy eight was Philip Jord. He decided to contact him
1:10:01
to see if Jordan knew anything about the information contained in this entry in his
1:10:04
father's diary. Jordan informed Ricky that Mandarin was his father's code name, and
1:10:10
then he was the leader of the team of assassins who shot JFK. Additional
1:10:15
corroboration would come later when Ricky located a mysterious container containing this mysterious code name
1:10:21
Mandarin. So there was what appeared to be confirmation of Ricky's worst fear.
1:10:27
The confession of Roscoe White to his direct participation with others in the assassination of
1:10:31
President John F. Kennedy, the most horrendous crime of the century and corroboration
1:10:36
of Philip Jordan's remarks to Rickey in nineteen seventy eight. Now, what's interesting,
1:10:45
Joe? Did you know that they gave Ricky White a light detective test?
1:10:55
Yes, and he passed. Thank you for ruining the end of the
1:11:00
story. Sorry, I guess we could skip over that. No, sorry,
1:11:05
no, go on, no, no, no, what else?
1:11:11
What else were you gonna say about it? Well? I had the entire
1:11:14
thing here, the questions asked, his answers and all that, but there's
1:11:16
no point in going on through. No, I mean, we're done,
1:11:24
We're done. We're done. Well, I'll just skip that. What was
1:11:29
the date of the light detector test? I don't know. We'll just skip.
1:11:32
We'll just skip the detective test. It's important, it's not important.
1:11:38
So good, oh, good, go ahead, Joe, all right,
1:11:51
I'm done. Well, I just wanted to show something because do you know
1:12:01
we joked on our episode with Carmine about all the mister X's. Well,
1:12:11
there's another one, and his name is Bill X. And he is a
1:12:15
longtime friend who resides in Paris, Texas. He's an interesting character based on
1:12:23
Ricky's recollections. Bill X hit the packet of photographs, including Oswalt backyard photographs,
1:12:30
for Roscoe for several years, later returned them to Geneva. Geneva White
1:12:39
knew Bill X before she knew Roscoe. Shortly before the HC report was to
1:12:46
come out in nineteen seventy nine, Bill X warned Ricky that his father might
1:12:50
be implicated in the Kennedy assassination. Some people in Paris, Texas think Bill
1:12:58
X's former knee the intelligence agent, which would line up with possibly Ricky White
1:13:16
Rosco White. I'm sorry, and he did serve in the regular Navy,
1:13:23
however, but is mistaken for Dea, which has a similar name. Interesting
1:13:31
also believes Ricky has a rather fertile imagination. On October twenty fifth, sixty
1:13:41
two built so this is more than a year before the assassination, received accommodation
1:13:48
from the Navy save some infant blah blah blah, and then talks about a
1:13:56
book deal. But what I want to surprise you about, Rob is on
1:13:59
your Wick hits, you were talking about Jeanny Roscoe White's goomar right his side
1:14:14
piece and allegedly the Reverend Jack Shaw said that he Rock White, which I
1:14:27
guess was his nickname. Interesting nickname, had an affair with a woman who
1:14:30
worked at the office of Jagger's childs and Stoveall. And that was one of
1:14:36
the questions Doug asked, and quick hits, he goes, I wonder if
1:14:41
it was Jaggers Stoveall. And again, this is a book, this isn't
1:14:45
a document. I believe it's from Walt Brown or no, it's high treason
1:14:49
from Harol Livingston. So you know, you could kind of make up your
1:14:54
own mind there. But there's another connection with with Roscolle White and obviously a
1:15:04
defector working at you know, during the Cuban missile crisis doing map work for
1:15:14
the military would be strange, to say the least. And yeah, and
1:15:26
then the next thing I had was that nation article. I believe you were
1:15:31
going to go over or nation the nation? No, okay, I uh
1:15:40
well, let me get back to this. A lot of detective test because
1:15:43
sure some people were interested in even though Joe might not be. I'm sorry,
1:15:47
that's okay, all right. Uh. Nineteen ninety, Ricky Don White
1:15:57
appeared in the offices. We'll see when you're telling the story, Joe,
1:16:00
it has to have a beginning, of middle, and an end. You
1:16:02
can't just jump right to the end as soon as they get the first sentence
1:16:06
out of my mouth. I know it's fine. Bat. We're creating a
1:16:12
story arc here. We're entertaining people. So they asked Ricky White fifteen questions.
1:16:26
Have you read any books on the JFK assassination as of nineteen ninety?
1:16:30
Now, of course, lots happened by nineteen ninety, Ricky White says no.
1:16:36
Have you seen a diary written by your father? He says yes.
1:16:41
Did you read your father's diary? He says yes? Do you know where
1:16:45
your father's diary is now? No? Did you take your father's diary to
1:16:50
the FBI? Yes? Did the Tippett family live across the street from you
1:16:56
in nineteen sixty four? Yes? Did your mother work for Jack Ruby?
1:17:02
Yes? Did you find, for the first time within the past two months
1:17:08
a container of three type messages in the attic of your grandparents' house in Paris,
1:17:12
Texas? Yes? Have you ever seen these type messages before you found
1:17:18
them in the attic within the past two months? No. So they're asking
1:17:24
very specific questions about very specific timelines, about very specific things. Here.
1:17:30
Do you know where the witness Elimination record book is? Now? Yes?
1:17:35
Have you ever has your father's diary been altered by you? No? Have
1:17:43
you altered the contents of the witness Elimination record book? No? Did you
1:17:48
read in your father's diary that he was one of the three men who fired
1:17:51
the shots that killed President Kennedy? Yes? Was your father Ross Gary Anthony
1:17:58
White? Yes, that you're read in your father's diary that your father said
1:18:01
he shot an officer of tenth and patent. Yes, okay, so that
1:18:09
was his lie detector test And according to this Affidavid notarized by Belinda Alvarado on
1:18:19
December one, nineteen ninety one, a polygraph test was ministered. PolyGram produced
1:18:28
tend to verify truthfulness. One response is to all questions. Test results.
1:18:33
No deception indicated on any questions. Now, what's interesting to me? And
1:18:43
I have a hard time reading cursive sometimes me too, And this might appear
1:18:53
backwards to people I don't know, but I'm just going to hold this up
1:18:59
here now it's not backwards. Okay, We're looking at this name right here.
1:19:03
Yes, does it look like it says Billy Hargas is the name of
1:19:08
the examiner on Billy. I can't make out the middle initial hardness. Yes,
1:19:18
I mean it could be a jay or an O or D. Yeah,
1:19:25
I just can't see as close as Yukon's. It probably isn't, but
1:19:29
it's just odd that it's damn close. Uh weird, weird. That is
1:19:36
really weird. And that is in ninety one. You said, yes,
1:19:43
was Billy Hargus alive in ninety one? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay.
1:19:50
I also came across this. This is Ross White's honorable discharge. Even
1:20:04
though he was given a hardship discharge Joe, they still gave him an honorable
1:20:08
discharge m and he was discharged at E five A. Sergeant Rosco Anthony White
1:20:16
won sixty six one O six on the fourth of day of December nineteen sixty
1:20:23
two. So that's interesting. And also found this, which is a certificate
1:20:33
of proficiency, okay. And what this says is the US Army Artillery and
1:20:41
Missile School in Fort Sill, Oklahoma, the Artillery Ballistic Meteorology course. The
1:20:47
corporal are A. White as of twenty three September nineteen sixty completely satisfactory the
1:20:55
Artillery Ballistic Meteorology Course Class number one sixty one US Army Artillery and Missile School
1:21:02
in the following sub courses Visual Methods, rawins and Team Operations, Radio sign
1:21:11
Equipment and Techniques recorded as graduated level expert. Now, when you're talking about
1:21:18
meteorology in terms of ballistics and shooting, that is kind of taking into consideration
1:21:31
the elements around you as you're shooting. So if you were, say a
1:21:35
sniper, say and it's a windy day, you have to account for the
1:21:42
wind or the rain, or the light or the darkness, or the angle
1:21:47
and the angles trajectories. You know, you have to figure out if the
1:21:51
bullet's gonna go down or if you need to raise it up a little bit
1:21:55
because it's gonna fall a little bit. But you could do it with a
1:21:59
dime. Yeah, yeah, you could do it. But anyway, that
1:22:03
just says that to me that you know, hey, he wasn't some dipshit.
1:22:11
Uh. You know, they've got Maggie's drawers all the time. This
1:22:15
guy can shoot, uh, even in the harshness of elements in uh h
1:22:21
you know, proficient in meteorology. Yeah, yeah. It always amazed me
1:22:28
how the eventual kill shot. Uh didn't hit Jackie. She was leaning in.
1:22:38
She must have been injured two away from him at that point, you
1:22:44
know, as he was, you know, holding his neck and leaning forward
1:22:47
and whatever. Uh. Whoever made that shot knew how to shoot, yeah,
1:22:57
or not hit Jackie. Uh. And I don't know if that was
1:23:02
luck intention whatever, But well, nobody else, not even just in the
1:23:06
car, but anybody else in dearly plaist I didn't get shot except for James
1:23:11
tag. But we don't need the bullet fragment or fragment of a curve or
1:23:15
a bone fragment. But it wasn't a direct hit, you know what I
1:23:18
mean. It was a scratch, a flesh wound if you will. Yeah.
1:23:26
But yeah, whoever whoever was shooting that, they knew how to shoot.
1:23:29
That is for sure under pressure. Yes that is no no, no,
1:23:38
no no no. Let me show one more thing. The This was
1:23:46
an article I found, Uh guess what's written by Rob Hueie. You ain't
1:23:56
as worth and I'm not read this. We'll post this, but this was
1:24:04
in August seventh, nineteen ninety one. Thing I don't get is why would
1:24:15
you implicate your father as like you're essentially like desecrating his memory. That's what
1:24:25
That's why part of me thinks that he had to find something, you know
1:24:29
what I mean, Like, I just don't see this being in some crazy
1:24:32
money making scheme, you know, you know, and the fact that the
1:24:39
preacher man is involved in it before Ricky White even brings any of this forward.
1:24:45
You know, how do you convince a preacher to lie a minister of
1:24:48
reverend? I mean, I don't know, It's just it's crazy. Yep.
1:25:00
And in the article says, Ricky White also named two other shooters code
1:25:04
named Saul and Lebanon, who he said had fired UH at Kennedy roscill White's
1:25:14
code was Mandarin, and he said Saul. And what's interesting about Saul Okay,
1:25:23
is that what the hell is his name? Appointment in Dallas? Who
1:25:28
wrote that book? Uh? Appointment in Dallas? Are you giggling for me?
1:25:39
I'm not no, because I have you best starred. I can't Hugh
1:25:50
McDonald okay write a book called Appointment in Dallas. It's very short, very
1:25:58
quick read. And he's the guy actually, Hugh McDonald. He's a former
1:26:03
police officer from California, and he actually created Uncle Davi Will know this the
1:26:12
old identic Kit, which basically helped back in the day put together a composite
1:26:19
sketch of a suspect, you know, like they had different transparent fold downs
1:26:26
over you know, first like you picked the shape of a face. Then
1:26:29
you picked you know, and if they had caterpillars like Joe, or if
1:26:35
they had you know, a sexy little mustaches or a goatee or a beard
1:26:43
or whatever, and use blue eyes and a pointy nose or a pug nose
1:26:46
or whatever, and what kind of hair they have. When you're done with
1:26:49
all the putting all these transparencies over each other, you have a suspect,
1:26:54
you know, a composite sketch of a suspect. And this guy was responsible
1:26:58
for making this denticate and he would go around all like the FBI all these
1:27:02
I mean, he made a killing off of this thing, like enough to
1:27:05
where he could retire. But anyway, in the book, he states that
1:27:11
he went to Europe and interviewed a guy named Saul who was an international assassin,
1:27:20
okay, who was hired to you know, shoot at Kennedy. And
1:27:28
this was this book came out in nineteen sixty nine. Joe, Wow,
1:27:32
Yeah, so to me, it's interesting that they get I mean, Saul
1:27:36
is not a very popular name now or I don't think then, at least
1:27:44
not in in in Texas. You know. So there's another part, you
1:27:49
know, just when you think okay now, then you're like, h wait
1:27:53
a minute. And trust me, people hate on this Hugh McDonald book.
1:27:58
I think it's trash. I think there's no merit to it. But the
1:28:00
guy is legit that that, you know, he wrote the book. I
1:28:03
mean, he's got legit background. It's just interesting that the guy he tracks
1:28:11
down as one of the killers in Europe is named Saul, and he's like
1:28:15
this, you know, cia hitman, it's killer for hire type of guy,
1:28:20
kind of like uh, Jean Paul Sutra, Yes, right, who's
1:28:26
getting out of Dallas? Ask who's Corsican? Who's getting the hell out of
1:28:30
Dallas? On November twenty second. So, I mean, is there anything
1:28:33
to this stuff? I don't know, but it's it's all very interesting when
1:28:39
you throw it all together like that. Yeah, it's uh, it's it's
1:28:48
it's my serious because there are so many connections with Roscolle White and Lee Harvey
1:28:55
Oswalt that it's so easy to make a circumstantial case around it, right around
1:29:01
involvement, pre knowledge, actual involvement, right, but we don't know.
1:29:17
We are pretty sure his wife worked as a tripper for Jack for me we
1:29:28
ah No. He joined the DPD six weeks before the assassination, which is
1:29:34
an extremely convenient time to join and left two years to the day, as
1:29:46
in okay, Simon, or like uh and what better way if you had
1:29:54
a hit list to take care of potential uh, you know, witnesses,
1:30:00
what better cover than to do it is other than a cop right? I
1:30:04
mean, yeah, I don't know. It's crazy and and of course and
1:30:12
of course once and it's just how sinister the the ic works is once you
1:30:20
do those things, you have knowledge and you are a liability and at some
1:30:28
point you're going to be on that list. And whether that drum fire misquote
1:30:39
air quote mistake whatever happened at eminem uh management or whatever welding, yes you
1:30:50
don't. You don't go boom in a management to office, but you do
1:30:55
go boom from flammable liquids at a you know. And there was a big
1:30:59
loss too. Not only was their life insurance of all, there was lawsuits,
1:31:02
you know, suing the company of this supposed chemical because it wasn't labeled
1:31:09
flammable or something crazy like that. And then I think a Dayre's family got
1:31:15
like three hundred some thousand dollars and I think it was just ended up getting
1:31:20
like one hundred thousand. But it's crazy and the amount of money that was,
1:31:28
you know, going around back then, it didn't seem like, you
1:31:30
know, the Whites would do this for money. I mean, they obviously
1:31:33
had money. And as far as the diary goes, you know, the
1:31:39
FBI is, according to the Whites, the FBI stole the diary, never
1:31:44
to be seen again. Okay, the FBI says, no, we never
1:31:48
took a diary. No, but yet we have pages and pages of physical
1:31:51
surveillance done on them over time where they were doing surveilling them for a reason.
1:32:01
And there's at least fifteen people who directly or indirectly confirm the diary's existence
1:32:08
prior to the FBI entering the picture. Of these fifteen people, nine saw
1:32:13
the diary. And of these nine people, seven actually read portions of it.
1:32:16
So there is no question that there was a diary. I mean multiple
1:32:23
people, more than one, more than three, more than five, even
1:32:27
have attested to the you know, actually reading the diary and or seeing it.
1:32:38
Why would the FBI have confiscated the diary? Would they destroy the diary?
1:32:42
Why would they destroy the diary? You know, it's just it's question
1:32:51
after question, you know. And as far as Roscoe, So to get
1:33:00
back to what you said about the Texas Monthly article, Joe Senior editor Gary
1:33:05
Cartwright did most of the in depth investigation into the White story as reported in
1:33:12
Texas Monthly, and then he did an interview with Entertainment Weekly where he said
1:33:15
this. He said, my conclusion is that Roscoe White worked for some intelligent
1:33:21
agency, maybe naval intelligence, maybe contracted by the CIA. That he was
1:33:28
on the periphery of the assassination, that he was planning in the Dallas Police
1:33:30
Department to be there to do something, that he had a connection to Oswald,
1:33:35
and he certainly had a connection to Jack Ruby. And however, is
1:33:42
entirely plausible, possible, or probable that the fate befollowing the diary has met
1:33:47
the CIA's criteria of truth as assessed by author Thomas Powers when he wrote the
1:33:55
CIA would agree with historian David Beckett Fisher that history is not what happened,
1:34:00
but what the surviving evidence says happened. If you can hide the evidence and
1:34:04
keep the secrets, then you can rewrite the history. And that's a pretty
1:34:10
sweet ass quote. If you asked me to end it on there, Joseph,
1:34:16
you got anything else to wrap it up with, or let me see
1:34:25
you got any more power points to whip out on us. Let me see
1:34:31
if I whip something out. You know, I I think we covered most
1:34:39
of it, and you know, I'm kind of with you. I'm torn.
1:34:46
He there. Like I said, there's a circumstantial case that can easily
1:34:55
be made to his involvement and whether his kids and Rocky are profiting off of
1:35:09
the book or whatever. Both could be true. There could be some truth
1:35:16
in it, and there could be some sensationalism in it right to sell books.
1:35:23
So it's really hard to tell. But he was around, he was
1:35:30
a player, and he sucks. He sus and his damn book just came
1:35:35
out last year. I have not done it yet, but if you're interested
1:35:41
to know more of the story, go pick up the book and see what
1:35:45
you think and come up with your own conclusions, folks. But anyway that's
1:35:48
going to do it. For us, we went drone doing long enough Joe,
1:35:51
Yes, it's a long one, but it needed to be in order
1:35:56
to get all this information out to you, the good folks. Hopefully you
1:35:59
enjoyed it once again, head over to locals uh and join our little community
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over there. It's a very cool place to go. We're trying to build
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it up and don't forget folks. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure
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1:36:41
So for the sexy beat from the Northeast, Joe Berelli, thanks sir
1:36:47
and your boy the Triple B. It's for this one. Yes. Until
1:36:55
next time, folks, boots please boom boom screens please be p thk fe feen