Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct Episode 264: All Blacks ring the changes

Transcript

Rugby Direct Episode 264: All Blacks ring the changes · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
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  Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. Get
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: inside the game.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: From every angle.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: It's Rugby Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: by Newstalk ZB.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Forklift Solutions, lifting you
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: and your business to a higher level. Elliot Smith with me,
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: Liam Napier in Sydney, as we count down to the
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: second Bledisloe Cup test between the All Blacks and the
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: Wallabies on Saturday afternoon, New Zealand time. Napes, good to
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: be here. The weather has, well, not necessarily played ball,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: but the countdown is on to a rematch.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: It is indeed. It's a bit gloomy, isn't it, in
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  Speaker 2: Sydney this week? We did a wee excursion yesterday afternoon,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Bondi to Coogee. No... no speedos. We did stop in and, um,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: make some inquiries about rugby director issue models and the
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: crowds were out the door. So we'll report back on
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: that later. And I'm happy to report that your knees
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: are still intact after the lion's head incident as well.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, this was slightly different, um, uh, leisurely ish
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: walk versus going completely uphill for about, I don't know,
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  Speaker 3: 12 hours or something. Was it? No, it wasn't quite
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: that long, but no, it was a very nice walk. And, uh, Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I think we had the best two hours of the
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: week because it's been raining otherwise. Good news, though, for Saturday,
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: weather expected to be pretty good for the match itself.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: And Napes, the All Blacks team has been revealed by
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Dave Rennie. Some tweaks made to the side with a
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: few new faces or, you know, returning faces coming into
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: the starting side. A couple of changes off the bench
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: as well with Dupuzi Karifi and Timothi Tavatava-Nawai. in the
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: mix as well. I guess your impressions of what Dave
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Rennie's announced.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: It's a power-packed bench for sure, but if we start
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: with the starting side, I think consensus is probably not
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: as many changes as many people would have expected. Having
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: banked the bladders low, put 50 on the Wallabies, there
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: was a sense that the pressure was off to a degree,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: that there was more flexibility this week, and if you
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: were going to rotate, which Rennie did indicate he was considering,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: It would be this week, but look, the All Blacks
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: are digging deep into their depth as it is with
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  Speaker 2: their injury toll following the Torrid South African Tour, and
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: they have very much gone for continuity. One injury and
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: force change with Josh Morby coming onto the left edge.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: We thought maybe Shea Fihaki might get a crack off
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: the bench, and then two tweaks in the full pack
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: with George Bauer replacing Ethan De Groot and Fabian Holland.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Forming what I believe to be the best All Blacks
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  Speaker 2: locking combination alongside Scott Barrett with Tupi Vy on the
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: blind side. So just three starting changes. Are you surprised?
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Do you expect more?
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we discussed earlier in the week that
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: maybe there was a chance to look at a few
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: other players potentially. And, you know, I guess they had
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: three weeks off after South Africa. But there are four
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: players in that back line that have started every test match.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: So I felt that maybe if there was an opportunity
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: to give someone a spell, it didn't have to be
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: all four, but Roy Gard, McKenzie, Geordie Barrett, Will Jordan
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: have all started every test match this year. And as
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: I say, I know they had a break after South Africa,
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: but this to me loomed as a possible opportunity to
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: maybe give one or two of those players the week
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: off or perhaps an opportunity to come off the bench.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: He could have started Kyle Preston and had Ratema back
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: him up potentially and I think he'll want to keep
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: playing McKenzie in that 10 role, given he's only just
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: got there, but maybe Tapaya into 12 and Rico Iwate
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: into 13. But Dave Rennie feels relatively comfortable that these
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: players are still feeling pretty fresh, and they've obviously had
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: to have a lot of rotation and changes around them,
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  Speaker 3: given the injuries that they have had elsewhere in the
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: back line. So they're forming that solid core, that consistent core.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: in there so yeah I think there was probably an
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: opportunity to go a little bit further wasn't talking about
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  Speaker 3: wholesale changes but I thought they might have yeah made
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  Speaker 3: some of those little wee tweaks just to see players
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  Speaker 3: that we don't see at test level or haven't seen
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: at test level too much this year you know get
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: them some game time but not to be and that's
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  Speaker 3: the way that Dave Rennie's gone I mean the other
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: side of that conversation obviously NAPES is around performance and
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: They got the performance they wanted last week and they've
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  Speaker 3: kept the faith with those players to go out and
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  Speaker 3: deliver it again and keep the foot on the throat
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  Speaker 3: of the Wallabies.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, the All Blacks wouldn't want to lose those four
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: guys who have played consistently for them. If you talk about,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: we touched on this just offline earlier in the week,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: but genuine world-class players for the All Blacks right now.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: You would have those four Roy Guards. I don't know
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: if I would, necessarily say McKenzie as a bolted-on world-class player,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: but certainly Roy Guard, Artie Sevier's injured, Geordie Barrett and
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Will Jordan. And just in terms of their influence, you
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: think about Geordie Barrett and Roy Guard last week and
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Will Jordan's prolific try scoring. So to lose those guys
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: a step down to the next player is significant. So
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: just on that, is there anyone else? that you would
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: have in that conversation that is definitely bolted on. I
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: think I mentioned to you Peter Lakai and Fabian Holland.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I would expect those two to emerge in the coming years,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: but they're certainly not there yet.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, when you asked me that question, I
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: sort of rattled through the squad and couldn't quite come
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: up with anyone else outside of that. It's hard to
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: think because, you know, the All Blacks scrum got so
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: badly monstered. It sort of rules out the props of
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: being in that conversation. Scott Barrett's only coming back from injury.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: I think there's an argument that he was once world-class.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: Can he get back is an interesting question.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, been a few years.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Yep. And then with those players injured currently, yeah, there are. So, yeah,
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: I think Roy Gard, Jordan and Geordie Barrett would be
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: probably the three that really spring to mind.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and to your point about the selection this week,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I think there was probably a danger in mixed messaging
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: from Rennie. Had he not selected this team, he's been...
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: very firm on the fact that they need to back
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: up this performance. And when you take a step back,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: and I probably didn't do this, but the All Blacks
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: are 5-3 this year, and it was always going to
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: be a huge ask going to South Africa, but 5-3
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: is not a great record on the face of it.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: And we did talk about the risk and rewards of
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: rotation and the clunkiness that can come with that and
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: the drop in performance. or when he's been very intense,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: or not just him, Geordie Barrett, Tana Umanga this week,
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  Speaker 2: when they've spoken publicly about the need to, that good
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  Speaker 2: All Blacks teams back up, that they repeat those performances.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: And yes, the All Blacks improved vastly last week and
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: laid down a marker and all those sorts of things,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: but they need to do it again. And the side
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: that he's selected gives him the best possible chance to
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  Speaker 2: do that. So I think the selection matches the rhetoric
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: this week, doesn't it?
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. He certainly didn't promise wholesale changes.
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  Speaker 3: I just did wonder whether there was the avenue to
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: go down and look at a couple of different players
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  Speaker 3: in a considered manner. But this is a team, and
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: you look at the 23 as well, I really like
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: the bench. I think there's a lot of impact to
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: come there. Shannon Frizzell was a player that Dave Rennie
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: admits they did think about potentially starting. They decided against it.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: Duplicy Khalifi's been out in the cold this year. He
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: comes straight into the 23. Timothi Tavatava-Nawai has been unable
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: to crack the test team so far this year. Had
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: a couple of appearances in South Africa in the tour games.
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  Speaker 3: So I think with the bench players that they've added
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  Speaker 3: in there, and we know what Takeaho can do as well,
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  Speaker 3: and Namia, I wouldn't say Jury's out at test level,
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: but he's still very early in his test career. regards that,
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: but I think the bench is really, really exciting, has
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: the potential to create some havoc, and yeah, I've got
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: to say, you know, I think Tama Tamanawai has been
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: a polarising player in many ways, a lot of players
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  Speaker 3: absolutely love him, but there has been some criticism, and
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: Dave Rennie's also sort of suggested this around the work rate,
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  Speaker 3: this is his chance to show what he can do.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, look, the All Blacks Well, Tava Tavanawa, I thought,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: played this year for the Highlanders. He wasn't at the
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: same level as he has been in other years. And
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: he was carrying injuries. And Rennie's been open about the
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: fact that he wanted him to improve his conditioning and
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: get more out of him. And he's all about work
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: rate of all players. So they took him away to
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: South Africa to get some work into him, to give
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: him some opportunities. But he's had to wait till now
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: to get a real crack off the bench. And what
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: a bench it is. You mentioned those guys there. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: last week at Eden Park, there was a stark contrast
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: between the Wallabies and All Blacks and their firepower, their experience,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: and I still think that's the case. The Wallabies have
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: tweaked their side and they've dropped Angus Bell to the
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: bench and shuffled the deck a little bit, but man
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: for man, they are poles apart. It's a who's who
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: of impact for the All Blacks and it's Polynesian power.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Largely that the All Blacks are going to throw at
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: the Wallabies. And look, if the All Blacks can start well,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: I really fear for the Wallabies at the back end
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: of this game.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I do as well. Yeah, they've obviously bolstered it
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: with Angus Bell. I really like Carlo Tisano. I think
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: he's a quality player. But, you know, very green reserve
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: 9-10 on the bench. And Kalani Thomas has only played
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: a couple of test matches. And Harry McLaughlin-Phillips is on
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: test debut. Philippa Dunguno, I think the jury's out on
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: him as a test player. So I don't think they've
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: got a lot of firepower to come off the bench necessarily.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: So the onus is on the starting players to lift
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: their game. And look, they were in the match at
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: halftime last week. Let's not forget that. But they weren't
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: able to get the aerial game going. The All Blacks
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: bossed them there. Won a couple of lineouts, but really
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: weren't able to dominate the breakdown. The All Blacks as
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: the game went on, began to get that lightning quick
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: ball thereafter. So I think McWright was fairly, you know,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: a bit of a passenger last week, I think, for
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: the Wallabies. Harry Wilson wasn't as dominant as we've seen
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: him be at Wallabies level. Rob Valentini I thought was okay, but,
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: you know, probably quiet. So the onus is on that
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: forward pack, but also, you know, especially numbers six, seven,
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: eight to really stand up, I think, on the weekend
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: and hurt the All Blacks if they can.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Well, you're right. The Wallabies were in it at halftime,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: but they capitulated in the second half. And that's because
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks got the physicality right. They did a
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: number on the breakdown. They got the carry and clean right.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: They dominated the air, as you mentioned. I thought Ryan
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Lonergan's kicking game from the base, the All Blacks harassed him.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Cam Roygaard's even off the field in one instance on
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: the touchline, just really getting into him. and unsettling him
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: after he was very impressive against the Springboks. And, look,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: a couple of injuries for the Wallabies, and then it's
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: their depth. They've got major, major issues at first five,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: and this is nothing new, but Ben Donaldson drops out,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: and you bring in Declan Meredith, and you're looking at...
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Harry McLaughlin-Phillips debuting off the bench, and it's just so lightweight.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: And in such an influential position, I think it's a
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: real indictment on Australian rugby that they haven't been able
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: to groom, to develop, to bring someone through. Noah Loloseo
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: was the guy. He was ruined by Eddie Jones, basically,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: and they can't keep their playmakers fit. It's a major
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: issue that they can't solve.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: No, they can't figure it out. And, you know, I
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: think the great Wallabies teams, you know, have had those
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: wonderful 10s. And Larkham's, you know, the one that springs
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: to mind from sort of our generation watching and others
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: that have been there as well.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Even, you know, Matt Gitto.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: What they give for a Berwick Barnes currently.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. Elton Flatley. We can name some guys for
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: quite some time here. Yeah, look, that is the big
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: hole in their plan. Their loose forwards are good. Ryan Lonergan,
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: I think, is a solid player. And, yeah, they just
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: lack that 10 because they've got plenty of firepower potentially
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: in the backs, or maybe not so this week, you know,
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: with having to move Suoliti around the back line. Onus
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: is on him to see whether he can impact the
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: game from centre. Looked like Wing was spotting, you know,
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: a while ago. But seven days ago, we were talking
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: about the All Blacks potentially being vulnerable, and then they
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: went out and put 50 on. So did we overestimate
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: that Australian side? Part of me, I think we've talked
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: about this offline as well, is that sometimes just teams
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: match up quite well against each other, and South Africa
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: just bars up for an All Blacks test. But then
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: when they play the Wallabies, it's not quite the same.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: We've seen the Wallabies beat them at Alice Park last year.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: And sometimes you, in sport... you do get those match-ups
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: where sometimes the weaker team is just sort of a
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: bogey team for whatever reason. And, you know, it's like
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: the Black Caps and the Indian cricket team. You know,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: the Black Caps just absolutely, you know, on a big occasion,
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: don't fear the Indian cricket team, whereas the Indian cricket
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: team will play everyone else in the world quite well.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: But if the Black Caps come to town, they win
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: a test series 3-0. And sometimes you can sort of
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: punch above your weight when the opposition least expects you to.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: It's a good point, and I think... professional sport, elite
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: professional sport, a lot of it is about mentality. And
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: that's what the All Blacks got right last week. They
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: were coming off three successive losses. They had to defend
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Fortress Eden Park. They had to retain the blitters low.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Tana Umanga laid it on them. And that's where that
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: performance was derived from. Now, that's where they're trying to
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: get back to. That will be really hard to try
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: and cultivate that. But you're right about the Wallabies because
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: the Springboks just don't get to the same level mentality,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: the same mental place when they play Australia as they
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: do New Zealand.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, it is good for the All Blacks
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: that they have that record at Eden Park and everything
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: like that, because it gets them so high, but I
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: also think that it can be a bit of a
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: millstone around the neck, that Eden Park record, and to
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: a lesser extent, perhaps the bled is low and everything
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: like that. Look, it's obviously worked for them because they
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: keep getting performances there, but I also wonder whether it's
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: also a bit unhealthy to have such a wait to
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: put on that record at Eden Park and everything like
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: that because at some point it's going to backfire, I think.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, potentially, but I thought it would backfire in a
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: game where, you know, if you think about last year
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: where the Springboks were coming down, there's all this attention,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: backs to the wall, and the All Blacks naturally get
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: up for a game like that where the Blazers this
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: year tend to tend to flow under the radar because
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: of the greatest rivalry series. And I was like, well,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe if there's a game that they're going
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: to drop at Eden Park, it would be this one.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: But they always get up for it. You think it
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: could be a millstone, but it always seems to go
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: the other way.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: You know, it happened the week after the Eden Park test.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: The All Blacks won it last year, don't you?
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I do. I remember it well. The demolition drop. It
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: was in Wellington, though.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not Sydney. But, you know, look, the All Blacks
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: do need to be on guard for, They get so
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: high one week, can they back it up the next week?
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: This goes back to the earlier point around consistency for
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks and backing it up, because last year
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: they weren't able to back that kind of performance up
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: the following weekend.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's an inherent challenge in professional sport when
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: you deliver such a compelling performance, getting back there, repeating it,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: improving it. It's one thing saying that, it's another thing
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: doing it, and that's probably why Rennie has effectively selected
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: the strongest available team to sort of ward off those things.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: We touched on the Wallabies 10s. What about the All Blacks?
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: There was a potential chance here to debut Josh Jacob.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: We asked Dave Rennie about that today. And he touched
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: on Richie Mwanga and the uncertainty around him. He said
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: it was a 6-8 week potential injury. that he's really
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: touch and go to be fit for the Nations Championship
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: for Tess in November. Even if they do select him,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: he's likely to miss two, possibly three matches. So that's
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: partly factored into his thinking this week. McKenzie's only had
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: one crack at 10. They're going to try and give
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: him a bit of a run, and Jacob will get
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: his opportunity, you would think, probably against Wales and Cardiff.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: But is it a bit of a wasted opportunity? Was
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: there a chance to give Jake him some time this week?
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe. Look, I think they've gone with two midfielders
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: on the bench now. Of course, Rico can definitely cover
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: the backfield and the wing, and he will be asked
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: to do that this week. But there is probably a
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: chance you could have given Jake him 20 minutes off
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: the bench, assuming all's going well, and have a look
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: at him there.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: I probably would have looked to do something like that.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: They haven't tended to select a backup playmaker this year
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: in the majority of the test matches. I think it's
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: only the Baltimore test where they've done so with Bowden
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Barrett coming off the bench on that occasion. So they've
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: tended to not do that. And, you know, I like
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: what they've done with Tava Tava Nawa and Ioane. He's
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: going to have plenty of punch later in the game.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Well, it's much stronger than selecting a specialist winger in Morby,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: isn't it?
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: That's right. It makes a lot more sense. But I
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: just do wonder whether there was possibly a chance of
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: just getting Jake him some time under his belt, able
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: to get the calls in, et cetera, et cetera. So
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: not to be, but I suggest he'll probably get an
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: opportunity in Wales. On that, with Richie Mwonga, if he
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: can only play one, maybe two test matches in that
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: Nations Championship window, are you taking him on the blind?
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I think in a wider squad, you probably are, but
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: just because... When everything shakes down, it's going to be
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Mwanga and Ruben Love, I think, still running the cutter.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: They're still going to want Mackenzie going to fullback. So
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: having him in the squad and giving him some game
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: time will prove invaluable because there's just so little opportunities.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: But then he is taking up someone else's position. Rooney
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: said today that if Mwanga's not fit, they're not going
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: to take another 10. And we were talking about it earlier,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Who would the other 10 be from provincial land? There's
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: nobody that's really compelling. There's Cam Miller.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: Rivers Raihana. Leading Northland to the promised land this year.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: Super Rugby MVP in the final last year. This is
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: your anti-Hurricanes bias shining through again.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Not at all, Blackley.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Pro-Hurricanes bias, I should say.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: I love the North. It's one of the best parts
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: of New Zealand.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: All borders, rivers, right?
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: And that's another example of Canterbury poaching.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Please. Left that term behind in the 90s as a
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: professional sport, mate. Come on.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: But no, he's not at test rugby level for me.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Harry Godfrey just happens to be at Hurricane. Hawke's Bay
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: season's tanked, but I think he's a talent, but Look,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: there's no one that's banging down the door in terms
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: of the next 10. So what about you? Would you
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: take Mwanga?
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: Probably depends. If he can play two games, it's a
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: lot more different to he could play that last weekend
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: in the Nations Championship.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: In the final. If he can just play a finals match,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: you're not going to bring him in to start that game,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: are you?
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: No. So two games, yep. I think there's potentially an
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: opportunity to get him there. One, I would probably say
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: rest up, enjoy your summer. We'll see you round one
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: of Super Rugby next year. So I can see why
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: they would want to take him given he's missed, you know,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: all this rugby through injury. They weren't able to take
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: him on the South African tour as they originally wanted to.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: And there'll be limited opportunities next year pre-World Cup. So
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: especially with Love coming back in next year, you know,
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: with a touch wood after injury, neither of their two
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: 10s are going to have a lot of time in
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: the saddle, assuming that the order remains, as you said,
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: ahead of the World Cup. You know, Love's season has
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: stopped halfway through, Mourner's has barely begun. So I think
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: there's a little bit of a risk that, yeah, they
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: do go in, not underdone necessarily, but you're not having
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: enough of a time with your first choice 10s in
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: the saddle.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: It does show you how quickly things can change. You know,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: you think about the the clamouring for Moanga to come
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: home as far back as Razor's tenure. He was meant
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: to be the guy. Then it was Ruben Love. Moanga's
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: only played one test in Baltimore, and that could be
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: him for the year. And then who knows what happens
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: next year? You know, there is a scenario in which
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: the All Black, Ruben Love's quite injury prone. There's a
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: scenario in which Damien McKenzie attempts to leave the All
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Blacks to the promised land at the World Cup.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: Well, he looked pretty good last week, and I know
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: it was only One test, and it was, dare I say,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: only Australia. But he did look good. And if he
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: can continue that form, then it might be another discussion
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: that Dave Rennie and co. need to have around their
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: first-choice ten. And maybe that order does change. And maybe
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: Love goes back to fifth. I don't know. But, you know,
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: as I say, one test. But if McKenzie can string
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: a few performances together, yeah, I think there's a genuine
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: question there.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I think the jury's probably still out. Like you say,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: it was one dominant performance where the All Blacks were
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: massively on the front foot. He could pick and choose
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: his moments to pop into first receiver. But he was
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: very good. But let's see how he goes up north
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: on a wet night in Edinburgh or when England's packs
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: troubling the All Blacks. There's a lot tougher tests to come.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Indeed there are. A couple of other things before we
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: wrap up. Mark Nawanganita-Waze reports out of the Daily Telegraph
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: from our colleague Jeremy Pandram that it might be saying
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: bulla or ciao to Fiji or Italy. Now, Liam, you
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: talk a lot about your Italian heritage.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Come on down, Marky Mark.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: You'd look all right in Italian jersey, wouldn't you?
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: I'll give you some bruschetta. Sweeten the deal.
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very good.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Look, I would say there's a 1% chance of Marky
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Mark not playing for the Wallabies and... Look, it's a
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: good story. It's a good talking point. I'll get some
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: back pages. And I think it's a classic agent play
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: to extract as much money as possible. I don't know
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: what's happening behind the scenes in terms of whether he
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: will go on the Wallabies Northern Tour. But I would
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: be very, very surprised if he's not donning the green
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: and gold in a home World Cup.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: He's seen that Jake Wyatt is now the Fijian coach
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: and gone, get me a slice of that.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe he's a big Bulltongue fan.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: That was an interesting appointment this week as well. I
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: sound like Warren Gatlin was potentially in the mix for that.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Don't know if Scott Robertson was. Haven't heard anything on
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: that front, but Jack White's got the nod.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: No, Reza did use Buller to leverage his All Black
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: credentials at one point in time, but haven't heard too
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: much from him lately. Is there a bigger clash of,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Class of cultures potentially Than a Warren Gatlin Or a
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Jake White taking charge.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Of Fiji Yeah it's hard to think of I'm not
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: sure if Fiji would adapt to Warren Ball potentially that
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: well Or Jake White They had their best coach when
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: they had Simon Rubber Louie there at the last World
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: Cup I thought he was excellent He's obviously gone on
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: to different roles since But he's a quality coach that
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: came in And I thought Steered them quite well Um
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: They've obviously changed McBurn and moved him along. But, yeah,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: I don't see it with Jake Wyatt. He's been sort
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: of out of the test game for quite some time now.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: Hard to get back in to the way that the
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: modern game is played, I would have thought. But we'll see,
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we will. I guess the one thing I'd say
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: is maybe he strikes me as, you know, a Vern Cotter,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Eddie Jones-type character that, He could maybe bring something together
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: in a short space of time before handing it over.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: But it's a big ask, isn't it? Also, MPC. Yep.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Canterbury Otago final, was it?
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. Labor Day.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Monday.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Labor Day Monday, 2.05. Assuming, you know, it all goes
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: to script this weekend. Well, I wouldn't actually know. If
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: it goes to script, that's Canterbury Northland in the final.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: I'm going to say Canterbury Northland final. Okay.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: You've got a proposition, don't you, about Labor Day?
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: Well, this should be an annual thing. It should be
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: a Labor Day final every year. I like it.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: I think rugby needs to do more around public holidays,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: whether it be Easter or Anzac or Labor Day to
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: entice fans to come along. It's a holiday. You've got
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: free time. Make it family friendly. Make an occasion of it.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just on the edge of summer, the weather is
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: usually pretty good. It's a good public holiday, as I say,
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: because of the time of year it is. You have
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: it at 2.05 on a Labor Day Monday every year.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: It doesn't matter where it's being hosted. I think you
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: get a pretty good feeling, pretty good buzz around it.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: As it stands, it's sort of been moved around the
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: schedule a little bit. It's been a Saturday proposition. It'll
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: be Sunday this year if it's not Canterbury hosting it,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: if all goes horribly wrong and the Red and Blacks
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: aren't hosting the finals. So I reckon you lock it
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: in for 2.05 Monday and then you dodge all Blacks' tests,
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: you dodge everything else, Black Ferns, around it, and you
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: have a day carved out in the calendar for that. So, yep.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: Sign me up.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I was about to say, it's close at Canterbury, isn't it?
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Planning your Labor Day final, it's a bit like saying,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: come to the winning parade before winning the trophy?
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, quite possibly. Taranaki, I mean, you know, they
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: have been playing quite well recently after starting the season slowly,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: so they could pose a challenge on Sunday afternoon for sure.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully Jacob can make a.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: Well, if Jacob's coming, then so do a fee-harky Bell
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: and Hannah, thank you. And maybe Munger can test out
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: that calf tear three weeks early.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I think they're quite enamoured with Sydney from what I'm hearing.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: But you're picking Otago to beat Northland, disrespecting the Taniwha. First,
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: you don't want Rivers Rayhart or the All Blacks, and secondly,
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: you're going, no, Otago's going to go up and win
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: at Seminoff Stadium.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I'll be very happy for either of those teams to
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: progress and win, but a bit of a soft spot
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: for the big The gold, no. And I think it
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: would be a quintessential final, Canterbury-Otago. It was.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: It was quintessential last time when Canterbury won it.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: I think Otago have a better chance of beating Canterbury
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: in a final than Northland. Do you reckon?
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, Northland took the shield off them earlier in
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: the year.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just that southern rivalry, isn't it? I think
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Otago could really get up for it. But who knows?
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: As long as Canterbury's there, it doesn't matter. Certainly not
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: the people's thing. Finally, who wins on Saturday afternoon? All Blacks, Wallabies?
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I think the All Blacks do it comfortably. Man for man,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: you look at those teams. Wallabies depleted. They had a
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: better team last week. I can't see a world in
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: which they get up unless the All Blacks are well
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: off mentally. You think about the last test here in Sydney,
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks were up by like 20 points from Emery,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: and then they capitulated and they finished the game with
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: 13 men. They were clinging on. I think it needs
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: something similar for the Wallabies to have a chance.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: McKenzie was 10 in that game as well. It was
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: his last crack before Razor changed to Bowdoin.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Well, he can be a wizard and he can be
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: a roll-the-dice gambler, can't he?
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: He started, what, 40? I did have that number earlier.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: I've lost it. 40-plus test matches in a row now
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: for the All Blacks. Quite remarkable. That'll do us for
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: Rugby Director.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: What's your tip?
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Same as you. I think the All Blacks are too
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: good to beat this Wallabies team again. The Wallabies might
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: be better than last week if they tied up a
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: few areas, but I'd still say the All Blacks should
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: be too strong, and I think they'll win by 13-plus again.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: 13-plus, yeah.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: Right. That'll do us for Rugby Director, powered by Forklift Solutions,
• 29:38
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• 29:42
  Speaker 1: For more from Newstalk ZB, listen live, on air, or online.
• 29:45
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• 29:48
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