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What Real Player Development Looks Like · UNCOACHED

• Brad: Welcome to Uncoached, the podcast for volunteer coaches and parents figuring out youth sports as we go. Each episode, we keep things simple: five questions to talk about practical insights you can actually use with your youth athletes. Today, my guest is Anthony Brenner. Anthony has spent more than 30 years coaching and developing athletes at just about every level, from youth soccer all the way through the professional game. Today, his work goes well beyond developing better soccer players. He works with athletes, coaches, families, and clubs to create better environments for young athletes to grow in. Today, we're talking about player development, what coaches and parents often get wrong or right, and what Anthony's experience in coaching and scouting has taught him about helping youth athletes reach their full potential. Anthony, thanks so much for being here. I'm excited to jump into conversation with you, but first, can you help me out and give me some more background about who you are, what you do, and, and where folks can find more of you? AB: Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm really grateful for this opportunity. Anytime I get to talk about football and the work that I do and the families that I work with, I'm just always grateful for that. So I live in Raleigh, North Carolina. Um, been coaching since I was 21 years old. Actually my sophomore year in college, uh, started coaching in a local YMCA, and then as you mentioned a second ago, have coached in the club environment, was a technical director in a club, was a division one women's assistant at UNC Asheville, coached in the UPSL, and a private school for 11 years in Asheville, North Carolina, and now, um, a private coach and work with players domestically and internationally. Brad: That's fantastic. I've got, I've got family in North Carolina. I know, I know Asheville, and it's a beautiful place, so, uh, you're lucky to have spent some time there. That's great. So thanks for the background. We'll jump into a little bit of our content here. You've worked with athletes at almost every level, from young players to professionals, as I mentioned. When you look at youth sports today, what do you think we're getting wrong or right about player development, uh, and what does that actually mean to you? AB: Yeah, that's a really deep question, and I think I could spend this entire podcast just talking about this one, this one subject. I, I, I want to resist saying that we're doing anything wrong because I think all the adults in the room have, for the most part, have really pure intentions. But one thing that I've kind of noticed throughout my career and, and coming from a really unique perspective because I was a player in the US system, I was a coach in the US system at different levels. I had a child that played, now I work with families that are involved in clubs in all, all over the United States. And so I have this unique perspective to kind of see globally of what's been going on and what are the patterns and the trends. And, and to be truthful, I, I think we've just lost some humanity, honestly. Brad: Yeah AB: I, I really think that we've lost, um, our, maybe our original intent w- why sport is so important to families and why sport is so important to the development of, of a young child. And we talk about this all the time, where 98, 99% of all of the players that play any sport in a given time in their lifetime gonna play past high school. so actually, what are, what are we coaching towards? It, it... The signs are and the patterns are that we're coaching towards that 1 or 2%, and everybody else just kinda has to join in. But I personally feel that when I look across the entire landscape, not just the player, but the mom and the dad or the guardian or the coach or the volunteer coach or the director, we've lost sight of the human that's kind of behind that role. And I, I think that we're, we're seeing some of the, uh, the byproducts of that, um, you know, a- across in our club environments right now Brad: Yeah, and I, I, so just help me, uh, ke-keep me honest here. What I hear you saying is, is maybe the pun-pendulum swung a little bit more into the, the business side of where we're at with sports now, where we're trying to, to get as much and as many kids into a club system as we can without really taking time to develop them and care for them. I m- don't let me speak for you. Help me, help me with that thought process a little bit. AB: Yeah. I, I th- thanks for the clarification, but I, I really, I, I don't want to hammer clubs because clubs are in the business to make money if, if we're being real. Um, there are some people that are starting clubs right now that, you know, are really non-profit and trying to do the best that they can without, you know, kind of that bottom line, um, management or awareness. But what I'm talking about specifically is do we really care about the mental health of the child? What is the, the feeling of psychological safety for that child in a given club environment? Because oftentimes what I see that I deal with with my players that are tweens or teens or young adults that the any mentality or emotional issue that they might have as a mental performance coach is, is a direct result of a experience or experiences that they had with coaches previously. It could have been one comment that they made, or it could have been kind of this, um, compounding effect of the similar types of coaches over and over and over again, which really degrade the belief and the self-confidence that that player has. And so that- that's the, that's the human. That, that's not the player that's being affected. There, there are many things that go on behind the scenes, you know, with a, with a young child, where their belief in themselves gets impacted a daily basis from a coaching or a training environment. quite honestly, the parents are getting more involved and get more active and become a problem most of the time out of protection of their child Brad: Sure AB: they're able to see things in the car and at home and some patterns that maybe the coach or the other people wouldn't get to see Brad: Yeah, no, I think that makes a lot of sense. And what, what brings your perspective to light here, which is fantastic, is that you've got other global, uh, perspectives that you can bring in. Are you seeing other things in different regions like Germany or some of the other places that you've traveled that, that maybe are doing a better job at what you're talking about here? AB: Not necessarily, and I, I certainly don't wanna get into a comparison Brad: Okay AB: Um, I, I'm really speaking globally, like on our planet. I feel like our sporting world, and not just soccer, has gotten so focused on the technical player development, which we are developing incredibly technical players, where we can take, uh, you know, a high achieving 13-year-old in the US and, and put them in basically any country across the planet, and they would be able to complete- compete technically with those players. So we're doing a great job at that. We're doing a great job at the business aspect of it. why private equity and some of these other, you know, larger, more financial, stable financial institutions are coming in and wanting to invest in sport because they realize that there's, there's a lot there. And I also think that we're, we're doing a really good job at, at marketing exposure. Uh, like social media, um, I'm a benefactor of that, um, as well, but quite honestly, we're doing a great job at exposing players. But this is all very surface level stuff, and what I've seen personally as a college and a pro athlete and having coached so many kids at different levels, what happens off the field, in between the ears and in here, is actually what is the difference between the highest level of achieving athlete and elite of the elite from everyone else. And that's on the field, that's in the business room, that's as a mom or a dad. It's when we can connect all of that in a more holistic nature to, uh, work more on the human and what's behind the sport and who's actually holding the ball than, than just teaching them how to kick the ball. Brad: Ja, mik AB: that's really what my intent is with the work that I do, is very much holistic in nature Brad: Yeah, and, and part of that is, is the environment that you're developing in, uh, in these kids in as well. And so, you know, a good devel- a good environment can help develop good players. If you're talking to a coach, and I think you alluded to it here in a, a second ago, is that maybe coaches aren't getting the best training possible on how to handle the emotional situations and the, the, the behind-the-scenes of who that athlete is. They're just jumping right into, "Let's hammer some drills. Let's focus on the wins. Let's focus on positions," whatever that looks like. But if you're talking to some coaches, volunteer coach or something like that, what... Explain what an environment actually looks like and maybe some things that they could do to help support your thought process here on developing the behind-the-scenes of the athlete. AB: Really great question. And last year, I, I actually published a book that is, uh, on Amazon right now called Contemplate, and it was really... It-- I, I, I created this book and wrote this book to speak to coaches and to help them really understand how they show up the second they get out of their car and they're carrying the ball bag onto the field, how they show up every single day with their, their energy and their presence, and their tone of voice, and their body language, and all of that has direct impact on our players and direct impact on our coaches. So I, I, I personally don't feel like we do a very good job coaching our coaches on our presence and actually how we show up. And are we actually giving eye contact to the player when they speak to us, or are we in the middle of doing two or three other things and multitasking because we've got so much to do that we're not really attending to that child, and so at the end of the day, that child walks away not feeling important. And the coaches that have really, really nailed this, that as a 50-year-old, when they look back at the most impactful people in their lives, it's typically gonna be the coaches that the player could feel-- you could feel their presence, and that they were really in tune with them. They were giving eye contact, and they made the child feel important. if there's one thing that I could say to coaches out there is if you could just really pay attention to how, how you show up and how you make a child feel important, I think that that is, like, the, the single most important thing that we can do as coaches and mentors, and quite frankly, one of the most influential people that is in a young person's life Brad: and if I could add to that, I think a, a tip I would give coaches is ask questions not about the sport that you're coaching. Get to know who they are. Just one simple question on, "Hey, how's school going?" Or, you know, "What, what'd you do this weekend? What vacation have you been on?" And make, make mental note of that and come back to it because you can remember a time as an adult when you've met somebody and then you've come back to that person and they remember something about you. It, it leaves a lasting impact. You, you, you walk away feeling like, "Hey, they actually acknowledge me. They know who I am, and they, they care to remember these things." And these kids, that's your environment, that's the culture that you're building. You want them to have that feeling of, um, comfort, uh, with you to be able to talk to you, not just about soccer stuff, but have them come to you with, you know, uh, things that might be bothering them. Maybe they had the rough day at school and they're not ready to be, you know, um, going full 100% at practice that day, but at least you know that going into it, you know. So, um, just, just a tip from my side, you know. Get to know them outside of the sport. AB: Beautifully said. And I think that, that, that really kind of segues into the, the parent part of the equation. And i- if I could back up just a second, I, I feel like, and Google kind of verified this, I believe it was about a decade ago. They spent years and years on this study of trying to figure out what were the conditions within an environment, a working environment that made teams most successful. And what they came back with was psychological safety. And I think that that's a, that's a really-- I think they nailed that because when a child feels psychologically safe, then the parents are gonna be able to step back, take a seat in their chair, and breathe, and not feel like they have to be on the defense or protect their child all the time because they realize, "You know what? Oh, they're actually in good hands. This person cares about my child, so I can step back just a little bit." And then they are able to enjoy this experience a little bit more instead of feeling like they have to protect their child over and over and over again Brad: Absolutely, and I think you could probably take that same sentiment towards your engagement, engagement with the parents too. Get to know them, right? You know, understand them, understand some of the dynamic that they've got going on. Don't be nosy, right? But, I mean, show, show that you care about the families that are a part of your team AB: I, I think that, leads to your question about how do, how do we create these environments, That, that are good and sustainable and full of development and, and full of joy and full of safety, obviously. It's every stakeholder that's involved, from the director to the coach, to the parent, to the child, to the ownership, everyone kind of working together. Because right now, if we're being honest, everyone's operating in their own silo. coach is doing their thing, the parents are doing their thing. The coaches don't want to engage with the parents. parents want to engage with the coaches, but the coaches aren't willing to give them information because of previous experiences that they've had in the past that has-- that really haven't been positive, and so they create this boundary. And then the child's sitting somewhere in the middle looking around going, "H- how do I manage this? My mom and dad are feeling anxious and upset, and so I don't, I don't want that to happen. This is really important to them because look at all these emotions that are coming up. They're trying to protect me." then they still wanna please their coach, they're stuck in the middle of not knowing what to do or how to act, and so they end, they end up doing a couple, couple things. They either, they either withdraw and are just kind of meh and gray across the board, which looks like not engaged or I don't really care anymore, or the other child, which is, I gotta make everybody happy. I'm gonna please everyone, which is completely inauthentic, and then we're asking the child to be someone that they're actually not, and the adults in the room have created that environment. So what I'm proposing is why, why can't we get together and actually create an environment where everyone in all these individual silos can have the, the conditions to really focus on that psychological safety and coming together instead of creating the silos? Because at the end of the day, it's gonna benefit the child, and that's why we're all there. Brad: absolutely. And the, I've been part of teams recently where the coaches didn't want to engage with the parents, as you explained, and it, and what a toxic environment it resulted in because you've got a lot of parents, like, in the background wondering, "Why is the coach making these decisions?" Or, "Why is my kid not playing in this position?" Right? And it's like without that engagement or a little bit of explanation about the approach and how you're gonna, um, you know, coach the team and, and, and, and develop the kids, there's just a lot of, uh, unawareness and not knowing, and that just creates anxiety, and then it creates negativity. And like you're saying, right, you've got two sides of the coin, and the athlete's stuck in the middle, and it's just a, it's just a very toxic spot to be in, you know? AB: It is. And then all of that toxicity becomes chatter, and then Brad: Yeah AB: ends up, know, with, with a mom or a dad talking to someone else that's a friend of another club, and then all of these rumors and things begin circling around the club environment, and it really doesn't have to be that way. I, I, I, I approached it very, very differently. I felt like I wanted the parents to really understand why I was there, why I was doing what I was doing, and n- I didn't only just have one meeting at the beginning where I'm standing in front of 40 people saying, "Hey, this is the kind of environment that we're gonna create and these are the things I'm gonna work on." But then for the next three months, the parents aren't allowed to talk to the coach. The Brad: Right AB: give any, give them any more information. But if you can initially set the expectation and then every now and then have some communication with the parents, whether it's virtually, by email, by text message, or even in person, that allows everyone to breathe and not all the gaps with assumptions because that's what, that's what we do naturally as adults and humans, is where there's uncertainty, we fill in the gaps, and where we fill in the gaps is usually not positive Brad: S- so well said. Uh, I, I love that. Now, you have a lot of experience with scouting and helping players reach different various levels of, of whatever, uh, o- of their sport, of soccer. Now, what do experienced scouts or coaches notice in a youth athlete that the average parent watching from the sideline probably doesn't? Are there traits in these youth athletes that you wish parents and coaches supported some more? AB: Really great question, and it's something that I, I actually talk quite a lot about with other parents because they, they don't really understand why a coach or why a scout isn't seeing what they see. that, that's pretty typical, right? And, and most parents have, you know, a conflated opinion of their child, and I, I do. We, we all do as parents. Brad: Sure AB: But the analogy that I like to use is imagine a math class a parent is standing behind a child when they're solving a math equation. What the parent is seeing is them writing down the answer that equation, and it's either right or wrong. Whereas the coach or the scout seeing how they're getting to that answer What's their body language look like? What does their focus look like? What's their attention when they go through all of the steps to solve the equation, and they're actually not even really looking at the answer? They're looking at everything that came before, the preparation to get to the point where they could even learn how to do that equation. That's kind of what coaches and scouts see when they're watching a game or they're watching a training, is all of the stuff that results in whatever the outcome is and how they got there. So just on a real basis level, that's kind of the analogy that I use. we, we often hear about mentality and how they can recover, how quickly they can recover from mistakes and, you know, what do they look like as a teammate, and all of those types of things. It is incredibly important. I, I will say that as a scout, if I have two players that I'm scouting and both of them on the surface have the same athleticism, technical ability, all of that, but I've got one player that when a teammate makes a mistake, they are fighting for them like they would hope that that player would do for them to win the ball back or to do something about that. That shows so much of what's inside of that player, that they're willing to help them out, they're willing to remove themselves own ego from the moment and help the team. There are far too many players that when they make a mistake, drop their head, you know, they have this body language with their-- that they're unhappy, which is on the surface, right? That's what everybody just sees. Like, that's the, that's the outcome of the mistake. But what, were the conditions previous to that that made that child have that reaction? Was it something that happened two years ago with a coach or a parent? When they made a mistake, they looked over, and the dad or the mom is like Brad: Yeah AB: the dad's like this, and he turns around and he's walking back into the forest or into the parking lot because he's upset about that, and then we expect the child to be able to recover from the mistake? the question is, as adults, as the coach, the volunteer coach, the mom or the dad, ask the question of themselves, look in the mirror and say, "Maybe-- What have I done?" That has or made these, um, these traits and these actions come out of my child. So I know that's a departure Brad: No AB: from your question, but I needed to segue on that because it's really, it's really important because I get so many calls and emails and personal meetings with parents asking me to help their child with confidence, as if that's just a thing. Brad: Right. AB: confidence. Brad: Yeah. You snap your fingers and change it, right? AB: a result of things compounding things, and the more that we can step back as an adult and say, "Okay, how have I potentially been responsible for what I'm seeing right now and what I'm hearing from the coach?" He needs to improve his confidence. When he's confident, he's a way better player. How many times have we heard that? Brad: Right. Yeah. A hundred AB: Thousands, thousands of times Brad: Yeah, and I, I, um, I almost feel like I say this too much, and you hear it all over social media, but, uh, it's, it's just echoing what you're saying. It's, you have to let them fail and be okay with it, because they're going to learn from that failure better than anything else, and that's gonna help grow their, their confidence. I, I wrote down answers to the same question, and I, I'm happy to hear a, a professional like you echo, because when I'm... I, I haven't, uh, held too many tryouts in my life, but even as a coach when I'm looking at a tryout for a team, I'm looking at how do they respond to, to failures, like you said, and bounce back. I'm also looking at how they respond to successes. Um, I don't want... I also don't, I don't gravitate towards the kid that's boastful or, you know, being out- outrageous after they do something positive, 'cause it just tells me, you know, one, that's not a great attitude, or two, maybe it doesn't happen that often and they just got super excited. So, um, you know, there's just c- both ends of the spectrum there. But I think to your point and your foundation of building an environment, allowing kids to have a mistake and not reacting negatively to that mistake can only help support the environment that you wanna build for these youth athletes. AB: Of course. And the more that we can model that as adults when, when we make a mistake, when we do something wrong, when we don't get something right, because at the end of the day, I say, I say this all the time when I'm talking with parents, when they're feeling stressed and anxious about making the right decision or the wrong decision, just give yourself a little grace because I can promise you that this exact moment that you're talking about having stress over, you have never had in your life. Just because we're an adult and we're the parent, think we should have all the answers immediately. But for the most part, as a director or a coach or a parent, we've never managed this exact situation ever before. ourselves a little bit of grace and see how we can improve on areas that we've made the mistake and admit it. Say it out loud to your players as a coach. If you didn't make the right call, you made a r- a, you know, a difficult decision in a game or in training and it didn't work out, say it. Because the more that we can model that type of behavior that it's okay to make a mistake, the more the players are gonna feel from the adults around them, "It's okay for me to make a mistake, and I'm not gonna get judged for it." Our children learn way more from what they see and observe than they do what comes out of our mouth. So we just need to be really conscious when, when we- we're in a position to lead our children how we show up, and I'm gonna go back to that again. If we are willing to look at ourselves and we're willing to say that we made a s- mistake, and you know what? Look at all of the children's faces and say, "I got that wrong. I'm sorry. Next time I'm gonna get better." That gives them permission maybe the next time not to take a mistake so hard Brad: Yeah. Well, so well said. I love that. We, earlier you made the point that coaches need to think about who they're actually coaching. You know, is it the focus on the small percentage of who may potentially reach the, uh, elite level, let's say that, um, or the overwhelming majority who most likely won't, right? There's a lot of kids that this is... Th- they're deve- being developed for, for life skills, right? They're not gonna have a long-term career in soccer most likely. How should that change the way we coach and develop youth athletes? AB: Coach the human. Uh, it's very simple to me. just coach, see the human. see the number on the jersey. Don't see that they're a number six. Don't see that they're a left-footed left back. the human, treat them as a human, and do the best that you can with the soccer knowledge that you've got to treat everyone technically the same within reason, right? We, we, we can't treat every child the same. I'm not one of those coaches that, that necessarily believe that because every child has a different way to take in information. Every child has a different way of learning. have, uh, different distraction level, all of, all of those things, So I, I feel like, um, back to your original question... that's a d- that's a really difficult, um, difficult question to answer honestly, because when we look at the soccer context, there, there's a lot of, there's a lot of parity now because there's so many different opportunities for children and different teams and different levels. But on every team, no matter what level, what sport you're playing, there's always gonna be more gifted kids than the kids that, you know, maybe are on the bottom half of that. So I, I personally feel like you have to coach to the mean, Not the top, not the bottom, but then do a really good job with the kids maybe that, uh, have a little bit more ability or their, um, you know, their development arc is a little bit, you know, steeper at this point. Make an effort to go to them and go to the parents and say, "Hey, I realize you may not be getting as much out of these as these sessions and these games as you need to, so let me be a resource for you, and here's where I would suggest going because I'm unable." It's another part of the coach being able to admit that they're not able to do everything and to have all the answers, right? Humility. go to the parents and say, "Hey, this is what I would recommend doing because I can't get to the things that your child needs because they're so gifted." And then on the other end of that, "Hey, your child needs a little bit more attention here. Here's how I can help and how I can be a resource." And so instead of just trying to satisfy everyone with like one global approach, in a little bit more to those pockets and those groups within your team and just give them information. Parents want information. want feedback, and we don't do a great job as coaches as giving feedback. Maybe at the end of the season we say, "Hey, you need to work on X, Y, and Z", but we typically don't tell them, well, where do you go to get the X, Y, and Z? We just hand it to them, and then it's their job to go and do it. But then in some environments we say, "Oh, we don't want you working with coaches outside of our club." So it's like this cy- this, this weird cycle that's happening in, in youth sports right now. But I would just say pay a little bit more attention to those pockets within your team and just communicate more, communicate more effectively. And if you personally can't help them, we all know people that are coaching on the exterior of your club that can help in certain technical areas that your ch- that that child might need it Brad: For sure. And what I, what I try to focus on myself, and this could be for any sport, there's a, a lot of competitive, uh... There's a competitive environment to get your kid's attention to join a lot of different, um, other clubs, other teams, right? There's always teams running tryouts and trying to a- attract, um, kids to come their way. My measure of success that I try to focus on is whether you're in that top percent or you're in that, you know, o- other area of maybe you're not gonna reach the next level, I want you to play with me as long as possible, um, as long as you're having fun and you wanna come back. Um, I wanna keep you in the sport longer, I guess, is what I'm trying to get at. I don't want you to be, disappointed or burned out by 13. I'd love you to keep playing until you're 15, 16, uh, and enjoy what you're doing, uh, because y- you enjoy the environment, you enjoy the team, you know, and, and the culture that's, that's there. and I love what you're saying, right? Y- As a coach, you have to know when you can't meet the needs of different segments of your team, and I think it's super, super important. You're spot on with that, so thanks for bringing that up. AB: Well, thank you for w- wanting to create the environment where there's still joy and they're having fun, because not, not all coaches feel that way. Most of the coaches are there to win, and they're there to, you know, pad their CV and to get the next job. You know what I Brad: Yeah AB: y- kind of on the flip side of what you were just saying, I also think we need to be okay as parents and as adults for that child that says, "You know what? I just don't wanna play anymore. I don't enjoy it. This Brad: Ja. AB: fun." Brad: Ja AB: But having the conversation way ahead of that. There's a large percentage of kids, and I'm... In the last 10 years, no exaggeration, 20 to 25% of kids that I've coached on a team context or personally that I know don't wanna be there because they don't wanna play this sport anymore. But they've never, they've never been given permission by the adults to stop playing, because the typical statement in our culture is, "You need to see it through. If you're gonna commit to something, you're gonna do it, and you're gonna finish it." How often have we heard Brad: Yeah, for sure. Don't be a quitter. AB: Right. So my, my question back to the, to that parent, if I'm sitting down in their living room and I'm talking about this open and, and transparent with them, is, "If you were in a job and you were miserable and you were sad and you were anxious and you were depressed and you came home and you weren't the same person, are you just gonna stick with it because you said you were gonna do it?" So what are you modeling for that child? The child may not think that they have an option to stop. Brad: Yeah AB: And the more that we can be open and we can look at our child and say, "You know what? I love you. I love watching you play, but if there's ever a moment that you don't love this and you don't get excited to go to practice, I'm okay with that Brad: Yeah, and I think I, I, you're, you're right on. As a coach, it's a gut punch if you ever hear a kid say, "Hey, I, I don't wanna be here," or, "I hate it," right? It's like maybe they just don't like the sport, but also reflect on what you're doing and make sure that you're creating something that they're actually... This is a, this is a game. We're, we're kicking a ball for soccer, right? We're hitting a ball in baseball. It should be fun, right? We have to gamify this stuff even more and make it enjoyable while they learn, uh, and develop. S- so we're, we're talking a little bit about parents. We all want our kids to succeed, but sometimes that can turn into some pressure for these kids. Where do you think parents should be involved, and where do you think we as parents should be better at stepping back and letting the kid take the driver's seat? AB: Great question. I'm glad we're talking about this. Um, I think we do a good job globally of talking about this anecdotally, I think if, if we can dig into it a little bit more. Um, zooming out 30,000 feet on this discussion, maybe not getting exactly into your question, but something that I feel is important on this topic, is that when a, a parent invests a lot of money, a lot of time sacrificing things in their own life, spending money to travel here, to travel there, buy new equipment, to buy new cleats, that all can be perceived by the child as this is really important to my parent. Brad: Right AB: wherever there's that thing that's really important to my parent in regards to the child, that child is going to feel expectation. They are going to feel pressure. And in 100% of those parents, they're doing all of that because they love their child and they want to give them the best possible opportunities moving forward. But they also need to look at the other side of that. If a child hears a mom or a dad in the other room on a phone call with a friend and they say, "Oh man, I wish I could make it tomorrow, but can't. My child has soccer practice." That may seem insignificant, Brad: Ja AB: but to that 12-year-old little girl hearing their mom saying, "I can't spend time with my friends because I have to take my daughter to soccer practice," that can, depending on the child, be perceived as more pressure. So maybe that child is gonna be less likely to say, "Oh, my knee hurts. I don't wanna play today," or, "I'm sad or I'm tired, I don't wanna go to practice," or, "I don't wanna play anymore." they resit- they resist being truthful. They maybe resist being honest about actually what they're feeling because they realize how important it is to mom and dad. once again, moms and dads, ask yourself these questions and seeing am, I creating an environment that is making this feel to my child it's so important that they can't be honest with me? So just sit down, have a dialogue with them. Ask them, "Is this what you want to do? If it is what you want to do, let's collaborate on what that looks Brad: Mm-hmm. AB: Because there's a vast majority of parents that I am involved with right now and that I coach, that maybe the dad calls me and says, "Yeah, I, I researched the coach and now we're going to them two days a week and we're working on this and we're working on that, and then now I found a speed coach and they're gonna help a Brad: Right AB: this and doing that." And my question is: Have you talked to your child about Brad: Yeah. Yep AB: Were they a part of this discussion at all? Or you just operating because of what you think is best? Which is coming from love, it's coming from them wanting to do what's best for their child, but that just adds more expectation, it adds more pressure, when all you needed to do at the beginning is say, "Hey, think there's a couple things that, um, that maybe we could work on. What are they?" And then, then allow the child to elaborate and say, "Oh, you know what? I, I really wish that I could run faster." And then you say, "Oh, Brad: Boom. AB: I'd love to help. Let's, let's look for somebody to help you with that." And then the child has ownership. The isle- the child feels like they have a say in this instead of somebody external to myself going and managing all of these things. And then when I'm 18 and I move away from those humans that have handled everything for me and I'm expected to do it myself, then they are completely incapable. I've coached a lot of those kids that are 20 years old and they don't know how to do anything for themselves because everything's been managed for them. Brad: yeah AB: No one had ever really asked them the questions. So I would just say more curious with your child, even starting at a very young age. Eight years old even, if they wanna improve on something, have a conversation instead of, "I'm gonna go get a program and this is what you're gonna do. Here's the app. You go in the basement and you do it for 30 minutes. You said you were gonna do it, and if you don't do it, then you're a quitter." Talk to them Brad: you said something impactful. I'm sitting here feeling a little guilty because, you know, you get into the sports schedule and the family schedule, you're looking at the calendar and all the things that you've got, practices, games. As a coach, right, there's extra stuff that you've got going on. It's, it's hard sometimes when you're having those family conversations, you know, between you... You know, me and my wife will talk. We're like, "Oh, well, we can't do this. We've got soccer game," or, "We've got a baseball game or a volleyball game." Um, so I, I took that to heart. It doesn't happen a lot, but man, I, I love your approach, right? Like, we have to be careful about the way we approach these things because that is the fun. Like, that's the joy. Like, I love what I do. I love watching my kids play. That is the fun. Just because you don't get to do something else, it'll be there, right? Like, that stuff, that stuff, it, that stuff's not important right now in your life, right? You get to do this stuff for, you know, maybe 10 years of your kid's life before they're, uh, they don't want you there. They, they want to push you away a little bit, you know? So, um, I, I, I just wanna, wanna thank you. That was a, that was an impactful thing that you said, and I think it's super important for parents to be aware of AB: I, I completely agree. And, you know, I, I'm a parent of two young women, uh, 25 and 22 years old, and I still have to keep myself in check and hold the mirror to myself all the time whenever I say what I say. But I've, I've just realized over time, having worked with thousands of children and having that unique perspective, is that it, it really, really does matter. And back to a point that you said a second ago, m- the vast majority of parents when they're pulling up to a soccer field and they're putting their chair down, getting ready to watch their kids, is one of the most joyful and happiest and prideful moments that's in their life. But there's also a cost to that too, If you treat that like it's... You're so happy, maybe that child on the day that you're feeling really happy is not feeling great right now Brad: Sure AB: they look at mom and dad and they think, "Oh my gosh, they're, they're so excited to be here. I cannot not feel the way that I'm feeling right now." You know what I mean? Brad: Yeah, yeah AB: just ask yourself the questions, okay, how is my energy and what I'm doing and what I'm saying possibly impacting? What's the risk of what I'm saying and what I'm doing? Brad: That's good. Uh, just to, just to kind of round out the conversation here on, you know, parents stepping back and letting kids be involved a little bit more, I would encourage parents to teach their kids how to communicate with the coach as well. If there's ... If they've got a little bit of feedback for the coach or they've got a question, encourage the kid to have that conversation with the coach, because a good coach wants to have that conversation with the player. Don't let that fester into a point where then the parent is, uh, you know, frustrated and they have to shoot off an email or confront the coach. Um, and it teaches the kids, uh, an opportunity to stand up and voice how they're feeling about something, um, and have a conversation and, and represent themselves to a coach or to a authority figure, you know, let's say something like that. AB: I, I love that. I really, really love that, and it, it kinda goes back to the comment I said earlier about everyone operating in silos. It doesn't have to be that way. The child can have a conversation with the coach, Brad: Yeah, they should. Absolutely AB: should be able to have a conversation with the coach because so much can get lost in translation. I wanna give you one story, and this kinda complete this topic, I, I had, had a player from Texas play every single game, start every single game for this MLS NEXT program, right? U14 MLS NEXT team, very high level team. The child was actually a captain. into their final game of their league play, they had to win to move on to go to cup Mom and dad looked over at the beginning of the game, their child's not on the field. Child's sitting on the bench. And they're like, "Wait, is he injured? You know, what's going on?" So the half goes, child's still not moving, not getting up to get warmed up. So like a lot of parents would do, the dad gets up and he walks around, goes behind the bench, see if he can hear, like, what's, you know, what's going on? Is there, is there any conversation? Can he make eye contact with his son to go, "Hey, you know, what's happening?" Or whatever. eventually he gets in the game in the second half and, um With like 10 minutes left in the game, the child gets in. They end up losing the game, and they don't, they don't go on. So the dad's really frustrated. He's like, "Ugh, ugh, ugh," going over to the coach after the game saying, "You know, what, what's going on? My son's a captain," whatever. He said, "Why, why is my son not playing?" And the coach said, "I made a rule on day one. If you don't bring your equipment, you don't start the game. Your son knew this. It was his responsibility to communicate with you, and he didn't." So I look at the coach and say, "Okay, did you communicate that with the parents, or did you just put it on a 13-year-old Brad: Sure, yeah AB: He just put it on the child. He didn't communicate that to the parents. everyone's operating in their own silo. The coach thinks he did what he was supposed to do. The player's in the middle scared he knows he didn't bring the equipment, so the coach is gonna be upset. But the last time I forgot my cleats and we're halfway to the game, dad's frustrated, yells at me for having to turn the car around, go back and be late. So the child doesn't feel safe to tell the truth to mom and dad. So what are we left with? Brad: Right AB: with miscommunication, and it doesn't have to be that way. So back to your point, the more that we can open up this dialogue where things feel safe and it's okay to communicate, then please promote your child doing that as young as age 8, 9, or 10. Give them the responsibility to communicate with the coach, not you, so they learn that they are capable to do it. I don't need this person outside of me to communicate my needs or to ask questions. I can do that Brad: It's amazing how much it comes down to communication in so many facets of life just to be the, uh, the, the, the, the solution to problems. So Anthony, um, I like to slip in one more question. We covered a lot of content, but I do wanna get your perspective 'cause you've got such a wealth of knowledge, and you've been coaching and you've been a, a scout, and you've been around this game for a long time. What's one thing you believed about developing youth athletes maybe earlier in your career that has switched and you have a different belief today? AB: Um, that it was all about skill and skill acquisition and athleticism. Because that's what, that's what I saw. That's what I experienced as an athlete in the '80s and in the Brad: Ja AB: you know, playing in college and after was when I saw the most successful guys, it was the ones that were most talented. But what you didn't see was what was going on behind all of that. What was-- what were the invisible things that I wasn't aware of until I was much older? the invisible things most likely when we're talking about soccer is like, what's going on between the ears? The players that I've had in the last 10 years, and it's very simple. It's of them. The players that I've had that keep signing contracts, keep getting signed by teams that are higher level than what they played the previous season, the ones that sign to a D- D1 if that's what they want, the ones that sign professional contracts, sign MLS pro academies, are the ones that embrace realize that what is going on between my ears is just as important as what I do on the field. That, that is the one thing I w- I, I wish that someone had told me when I was young and was an up-and-coming athlete, aspirational athlete, "What is the one thing that I can do that will allow me to not only achieve my potential, but reach beyond that potential and projection and become something greater than I ever could have imagined?" And it's the mental performance work. It's tapping into the mental and emotional side of this game, looking at yourself in the mirror, seeing the things that trigger you in the past, seeing the things that frustrate you, and getting in touch with that and then doing something about it Brad: That's great. I, I wanna maybe get your perspective on this because I, I share your sentiment. I, I appreciate that approach, but I think that can also live in parallel with a desire to win. Like, I don't think winning is a bad thing. Um, it just can't be the central thing. But here's, here's my approach, is that when... And, and I say that because if you're a coach and you plan on doing this long term with a team, let's say, um, and I'll use myself as example. I've got, uh... You know, I started coaching young, and I'm, I'm working with a team, and I have, you know, my own long-term thoughts of let's, let's be really, really good technically and, you know, maybe c- can do something good when we're older, you know, 12, 13, 14 years old. Let's develop that culture and the environment that we've been talking about here and, uh, you know, what's inside the athlete's head now. You're gonna sacrifice some wins, I think, right? You're gonna sacrifice, um, you know, your opportunity to score goals maybe or to, to advance your team in the standings. But having that long-term development in mind, you know, I think that's okay in my mind. So I don't... Give me your, give me your thoughts on that approach. AB: I, 100%. I, I always, and I can only speak for myself, I always knew going in that I was gonna sacrifice the intent of wanting to have a winning season or win championships because I knew deep down, and this obviously after decades of doing Brad: Sure. AB: deep down that if, that if I followed my intentions, I followed my purpose on a moment to moment, day to day basis, and I constantly checked in with myself, I knew that the wins were gonna come, and I knew that the outcomes were gonna come that was gonna make everybody happy. But I, I also realized that on the flip side of that, I had to be a really good communicator with my families and my players. W- why I was there, why I was doing what I was doing, because the vast majority of people when they come into a youth sport at any age, they're thinking of one or two things: I want my child to get better and I wanna win games Brad: All right. Yeah AB: so that they can be a part of something Brad: Ja. Ja AB: But my belief was, okay, what are the things that are invisible that I can help facilitate that's gonna result in those things that you just said? Brad: Ja AB: So my focus was never on, as, as a coach of a team, was never on player development. My coach was never on winning games. I knew that it was gonna come if I did the right thing every single day and I checked myself, I didn't allow my own ego or my own aspirations to get in the way of my communication, my willing- willingness to be present with the child or the parent, and I just, I trusted in it. And, and it was... I, I can say that it was, it was successful and I felt really, really good when I walked away from coaching teams about the way that I did it. Brad: That's good. That's awesome AB: wasn't, and, and it wasn't for, you know, falling and tripping on my face for 20 years, but it took me a while to get there Brad: Yeah. Yeah, so listen up folks because you're, you're getting this experience. If you're a younger coach, you've got the feedback right now from somebody who's lived it and breathed it. So Anthony, that's, that's our time today. That's the content, and, and what a great conversation it was. Um, I think coaches and parents are gonna find this one super, super helpful. So man, thank you so much for sharing all of your, your information, your wealth of knowledge. It has been a pleasure to talk with you. If you could do me a favor, I'd love for other people to find more of you and learn more about what you've got going on. So please tell me where folks can find some more a- about you. AB: Uh, thank you for the time today, and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to talk about something that I really love my life and what I do every day. Um, most people find me through my Instagram account, which is Anthony Brenner Coaching, then my website is just www.anthonybrenner.com. And what you'll see on my Instagram is of reels and stories about the, the technical side of coaching that I do, which we didn't even talk about today. Brad: Right AB: That's 75 to 80% of the work that I do is highly detailed technical training and refinement of from eight-year-old to a 24-year-old, 24-year-old professional in Europe that wants help with their long ball distribution and they're a goalkeeper. So really everything in between that. And then you'll see a bunch of stuff on mental performance and mentality work on my website. And I'm transitioning more into wanting to coach coaches and be involved in a club, maybe in an advisor or consulting role. So any of the clubs or coaches out there or teams that are interested in anything that I mentioned today, I would love for you to reach out to me and we can have a conversation. So thank you for this platform Brad: That's awesome, Anthony, and I highly encourage folks, f- find Anthony. He made it simple. It's his name. Um, go find him out there and, and check out the content that he's got, 'cause it's really, really good. And if this episode helped you, share it with another coach or parent who's figuring it out too. You can find Uncoached and this episode wherever you listen to podcasts. You can watch the episode on YouTube, and make sure to follow The Coaching Dad on Instagram, TikTok, or Facebook. We'll see you next time on Uncoached