Latest / Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge / The Eds: Have No Fear

Transcript

The Eds: Have No Fear · Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This is The Eds with Eddie Judge and Edwin Adoyave.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to The Ed's podcast. My name is Eddie,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and today we have a special co host, Shane Simpson.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: He is filling in. Hello, Hello, Hell are you Buddy?
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Good? Good?
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me good, Thanks so much for filling
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: in for Fred one today. Unfortunately he was not able
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: to attend. He's got some big things going on in
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: his life right now that have are very very important,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: particularly with his wife's health, and I just want to
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: take this to a moment to wish him well and
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: a speedy recovery, and I hope that the entire family
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: gets through this unharmed. Absolutely, I'm excited.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Buddy.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Did you know that you were our first guest ever
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: when we launched our podcast, you were our first person.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: I do remember that it was a little while ago.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: It was it was enjoyable.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I want to say it's almost a year ago.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Uh way, really yeah.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Because I think we started well a year ago. We
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: started in February and we did a podcast introducing ourselves,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: and then we did another podcast talking about ourselves again,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: and then I think the third podcast is when we
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: started interviewing house husbands.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, and you get some good insight from house
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: husbands I have.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: You know, I've been really excited to get to know
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: the guys, particularly the ones I like. You know, It's
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: it's fun to hear their real story and hear who
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: they really are, because you know, I've I wouldn't call
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: myself a victim. I don't like to victimize myself, but
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I think when you don't really speak your voice and
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: tell your true story and sure who you are, it's
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: hard to have anybody believe you know who you are.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Right and and in a way, you feel like you're
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: in the closet and you're kind of hiding out, and
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: you want to be able to express yourself a little bit.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And one thing I learned is, you know,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: and and Terry taught me this. He he loves talking
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: about himself. So it really is good for us to
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: talk about ourselves because who else knows us better than ourselves? Right?
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And maybe there's you know, some areas you feel that
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: you're misheard on or misunderstood on, and you want to
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: be able to provide clarification. We're really, like you mentioned,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: we're really talking to ourselves.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Hey, so listen today's topic is about fear and any
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: type of fear, phobias, or anything like that. We want
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: to talk about fear and men relating to fear. We
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: might hit on a little bit about how women handle fear,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: but personally, I don't know about you, but I use
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: fear as a tool. The more scared I am of
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: doing things, or the more the more something scares me,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: the more I want to do it. Part of it
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: has to do with my addictive addiction to adrenaline. You know,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: if it doesn't scare me, it's not big enough. It's
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: not scared eno if I really don't want to do it.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: So it took me a while to get here thinking
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: about when was the last time I was afraid. I
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: think I was a kid. You know, we didn't know
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: anything as a kid, and I think that's where fear
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: really derives and cripples people. Is the unknown, right, Everybody
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: fears the unknown, and everybody is comfortable with what they
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: know and they stick to it. So I was looking
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: up the definition of fear and it made total sense.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to read it out because it was
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: a long one, but it's to the point. It says
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: fear is a protective primal emotion that evokes a biochemical
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: and emotional response alerting us to the presence of danger
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: or the threat of harm, whether that danger is physical
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: or psychological. It is one of the seven universal emotions
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: experienced by everyone around the world, and it arises with
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: the threat of harm, real or imagined. While traditionally considered
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: a negative emotion, fear actually serves as an important role
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: in keeping us safe by mobilizing us to cope with
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: potential danger. I think it's precisely what fear is, right, Yeah,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: pretty well. How do you handle fear in general? I mean,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: is there anything you're afraid of?
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned that it seems like you lean into something,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: So something is potentially fearful for you, you like to
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: attack it and go head it head, you know, head first, right, Yeah,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: maybe beat it, I mean, right and overcome it. Yeah.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I think that's the case for me sometimes, right. I
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: certainly can't say I attack everything and I'm just going
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: after it. But yeah, sometimes if I'm fearful for something,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I will go in head first. If it's if it's
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: work related, then I'll have to plan ahead of time.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: But then there's sometimes some things that are fearful that
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I might just, you know, wish I could go put
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: my head in the sand and kind of be buried,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: right and kind of be like a what's it like
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: an Ostrich? Right, they put their head in the sand.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Give me an example of that of running away from something?
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like what would be something that you have to
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: put your hand in the sand and go, I don't
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: want to know?
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: You know, when I was thinking about what am I
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: scared of? Yeah, people might find this week, But something
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: that I really am fearful of is is going broke.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's out of money.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: And that comes from my childhood. Everything that was thrown
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: at me as a kid. Yeah, earn, you have to earn.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: You're gonna go broke. You're gonna broke, You're gonna be
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: a bum. And it was always like that growing up.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: So now you know, anytime Emily comes home with a
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: pair of shoes or something, what runs through my head
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: is we're gonna run out of money. And I'm thinking
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: I got a wife and five kids that I find
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: myself responsible for. Yeah, So to get back to your
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: question a little bit, when it comes to money, actually
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: avoid it. So if there's some bills to be paid
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: or something that's you know, it takes me, you know,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: kind of hits me from the side, and it's something unexpecting.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Then I get really worried and I kind of put
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: it to the side, and I have a pile of
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: bills to pay on my desk that Emily can't get
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: after me for. So, for whatever reason, that's not something
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: I attack head on. That's something I kind of hide from.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: That sounds stabilitating, and I totally totally understand that. Similar
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: to me growing up with nothing and working my ass
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: off and building you know, what we have in my life.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I have.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I've had thoughts of failure, and the way I turned
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: it around was, well, I've been there already. I've been
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: there with nothing, and if I had to go back
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: and do it again, I've been there. I recognize it.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: I don't like it, I don't want to do it.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: It's not it's not fun. But I'm confident that I
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: can rebuild because I've built what I have and who
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: I am today. A lot more confident now, obviously because
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I have the history of working my ass off and
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: doing whatever it takes to support family, support myself and
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: do the things I want to do. But now in
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: my fifties, that's kind of reduced. I don't want to
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: start over. I don't want to have to go back.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: It sounds like you know you've been there and you
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: know you can get out of it.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But do I want to do it at
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: fifty I don't think so.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: It's like I've been attacked by a dog. Maybe I'll
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: be scared of that happening again, but I know I can.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: I can survive it.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: And yeah, be so bad, right, Gosh, there's so many
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: examples we can talk about now. I have had two
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: fears or phobias my entire life, and I was recently
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: able to eliminate one. Both fears are One was a
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: fear of needle actual like you know, syringe needles. Yeah,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: and the other was a fear of spiders. Now, where
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: I got the fear of needles probably comes from either
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the dentists or going to you know, shoddy doctors when
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I was little, and when they poke you for whatever
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: vaccine or medicine or whatever, especially in your teeth, like
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: when they poke you and they hit the nerve or
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: they hit the bone, or they hit something, and as
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: a kid, it's traumatizing. It is so traumatizing. Absolutely, So
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I think that's why I feared it, and fortunately it
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: worked out. I look at it positively. It worked out
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: well for me because in my early twenties, when I
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: was really getting into bodybuilding and working out, and you know,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: watching all these guys around me that are just you know,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: biceps are as big as my head and their bodies
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: are giant and enormous, and I'm looking at I'm admiring
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: them because I use that as motivation. But in the
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: back of my head, I'm like, maybe I should do
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: some drugs, maybe I should do steroids, you know, I
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: want to look like that. And fortunately the fear of
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: needles is what stopped me. I just did not want
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: to deal with the needles I and I thank god
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: in hindsight, you know, because of what I know today,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: you know, the side effects and the risks and everything
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: that's involved with that lifestyle. It just wasn't worth the
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: risk for me. So that's the one fear I actually
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: got over in twenty eighteen.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: So but for your fear of needles, you really would
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: have gone down that direction in your pursuit of you know,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: weightlifting and being fit. That really kind of that was
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: the that drew the line for you.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: I thought, yes, I have to say yes, and I
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: thought you were going. I mean to ask me the question, like,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: if that wasn't a fear, would you have done it?
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I probably would have because I was so into bodybuilding
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and I wanted to get the results. But I don't
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: know if I was to go back. I mean, I
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: mean there was obviously other side effects that you know,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: as a kid, people talk about it makes you smaller.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, But when you're a kid, you're invincible, right yeah,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: and you believe everything you're.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: So I'm glad. I am glad I didn't do that.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, I learned a big lesson
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: in my life, and that's you can get over a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: lot of fears. And the way I got over this
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: fear was when I was in the hospital for almost
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: a year with my heart issue, you know.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: My APIs And what year was that? How recent was that?
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: It was in twenty eighteen and I found myself in
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: the hospital. I got three oblations and like seven cardio versions.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: But every time I went in, you know, they had
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: to take my blood, so the nurse would I would
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: sit down and the nurse would look you know about
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: this big old needle, and I literally had to do
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: this to force myself to look at that needle going
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: into my vein. And after about six or seven of those,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: I got over it.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: You're like, okay, I could do that. That might go
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: for many things, Right, if you have a fear of
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: skydiving and you do it six or seven times, you
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: might overcome it, right, Yeah. Yeah, And I guess you
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: had a greater good, which was becoming healthy. So becoming
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: healthy you had to set that aside because you wanted
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: the end results, right, So you had no choice in
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: a way, or you did have a choice and you chose,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: you know, becoming healthy. Yeah.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: And I think it goes back to my theory of fear, Right,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: if I fear something, and like I read that that
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: definition fear to me has always been sort of sort
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: of a negative connotation, like if you fear something, how
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: do you get over it? How can I win this?
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Because I'm not gonna let fear win. So I could
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: have made the choice of you know, just covering my
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: eyes or looking the other way while they're taking the
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: blood and getting through it. But I forced myself. I
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: made the conscious choice to say I'm gonna look at
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: this needle going inside me with the whole goal of
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: getting past this fear. I don't like to be afraid
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: of anything, and the one thing I'm still afraid of
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: is spiders, of all things.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Well, that's very interesting. So at first I thought you
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: meant you just got used to it, and so it
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: normalized it for you and you were okay with it.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: But you're saying you actually made a conscious effort to accept,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: you know, what you had to go through and be,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: and you leaned into it, and you you embraced it
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: in a way, in some way. Yes, that's that's much
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: more fascinating actually.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: With the goal in mind to get over it, you know,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: because it's I can't figure out why I was even
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: afraid of needles. I mean needles, people getting needled all
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: the time, you know. So it was an unnecessary fear, right,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: and that's probably where spiders fall in, an unnecessary fear.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: But looking back to see what I why I was
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: afraid of spiders, it might have been when I was
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: a kid and I was watching some stupid horror movie
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: about giant spiders and it's scared of living hell.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Me Like, okay, who wants to be with a spider
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: pretty ugly. Yeah, I'll support you in that, In that
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: fear you choose to get over it, I'll help you
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: with that too.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I you know, every time I see somebody handling a tarantula,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: it drives me insane. I just I see that it's possible,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: but I just don't know if I could cross that
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: that barrier, you know.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: But it's not limiting your life in any way either, right, Needles.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: You could argue it might if you choose to walk
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: away from it, because you might not get the treatment
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: you're looking for. But spiders, is that really stopping you
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: from pursuing anything? No?
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: No, In fact, I've taken a how do I put this,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I've taken a path where I when I do see
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: a spider, I try to help it get back into
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: you know, it's it's nature. You know, if it's in
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: the house, I'll get a cup or something and you know,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: help it and get it out. So it makes me
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: feel good and it kind of makes me reduce my
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: fear of spiders. But you know, then you find these
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: images of the spiders they have in Australia that are
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: as big as your head. And yeah, I'm not gonna
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: help that one that's gonna be dead. I'm gonna get
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: my machine gun and I'm gonna shoot the hell out
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: of that thing.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: So your fear of needles reminded me of something which
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: is a fear. Although I never classified it as a fear,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: it was always a worry. I was always worried about
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: becoming addicted to things. So an example of being addicted
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: to energy drinks. So nothing gets energy drinks. In fact,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I wish I could take them sometimes or use them sometimes,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: but I worried that that'll be my go to. Yeah,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: it's become very dependent on an energy drink at the
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: morning and afternoon and at night rather than just relying
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: on my own self. So I've never had a sip
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: of energy drink for that reason. And it's actually because
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I fear that I don't have the self discipline to
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: overcome getting addicted to it. And the saying goes for medications.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: So I have a gold I have stones in my
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: gollbladder and they activate, and when they activate it it's
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: pretty bad. It's a lot of pain. And they can
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: give you vike it in for it, and I took
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: it once and I was like, oh no, wonder why
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: people love this. You know, it's like threw the stones.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I don't care about that. Stuff was really good. Yeah,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: you feel really good. Yeah. I never went back and
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: got another prescription for it again. I control it with
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: my diet and everything. I was fearful to just always
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: go get VICINGDF vike, a Viking or whatever painkiller they
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: provide me, and then I become dependent on that and
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: then now addicted to it. So I stayed away from
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: that and learned other ways to accommodate my Goldblader stones.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: But that's another story.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: So it sounds like you're saying that you actually were
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: afraid of being addicted as the fear of addiction. That
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: totally makes sense to me, and that's one of the
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: biggest reasons why I like to practice abstinence, and I've
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: done it for many years. There was a period of
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: time when I was running my dad's law firm, and
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I would bring in, you know, cases of Monster or
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Red Bull or some energy drink, and we would be
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: ultra productive for three straight weeks, and then I would
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: take everybody off of it. We won't be very productive
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: that week. But that practice, I think allowed me to
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: have a sense of control because I could understand that that.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I guess, fear of addiction is a real thing. Yeah,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I've witnessed it in various circles, from you know, being
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: addicted to drugs to being addicted to alcoholic to being
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: addicted to anything. Really, it's a real thing, and I
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: can see the fear in that, Like, I don't want
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to get caught up in that, you know, I don't
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: want to be dependent on anything. Do you drink coffee?
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: No, I don't drink coffee. I just never I've never
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: had an appeal to it. I've never cared for it.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And my thinking would be the same because I do
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: see a lot of people drink coffee the morning, my wife,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: my father, a lot of people around me, and I
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: provide it, you know, if they want to come, and
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: I'll run the errands and go grab them stuff. So
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not against it, you know, I'm not going to
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: lecture them. But yeah, I see the dependency on it,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: you know, Emily, as most people can't function until they
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: have that morning coffee, and it's it's worrisome, you know, Emily.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: To be fair, Emily was very, very dependent on her
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: coffee when she had her hip problems. She had a
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: lot of hipochronic pain, so that would help her get
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: through it. And we didn't know that at the time.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: I just always tease her for being so dependent on
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: it and I and it worried me. Yeah, she had
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: her hip replacement and she recovered. She's not so dependent
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: on them right now. Now she enjoys it. She certainly
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: will get it every morning. But if for some reason
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: our schedules are off and she's not allowed to run
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: down to her Pete's coffee and grab it, she can
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: actually survive the morning, which is really refreshing. And the
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: abstinence that you had mentioned is really commendable because you're resetting, right,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: You're getting back to the roots and feeling your body
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: and making sure that you're okay without it. Yeah, And
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I know my father does that with coffee about once
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: a year. He'll go two weeks without it just to
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: tell himself that he has not dependent on it. Right.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's definitely a psychological tool for me to
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: be able to have a lot of self control, because
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: what I do know about life is I can't control
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: everything outside of me. But if I can control my desires,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: my addictions, my weaknesses, whatever I can control about me
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: my thoughts, which are hard to control. You know, thoughts
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: are going to come in. I have no responsibility, But
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: what you do with it is what you can control.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: So what do you use to give you energy? Where
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: do you get your energy from?
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: You know this might sound corny, but I just I
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: have a lot of responsibilities with the family and my kids,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: and my concern on a daily basis is they're well being.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: And I don't want to make it like they're better
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: than other children. And I don't mean their well being
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: like they have, you know, nice clothes and fancy things,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: but just that they're well rounded and become independent. So,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: you know, I have my oldest daughter's now twenty four,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: soon to be twenty four, and she's married, and my
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: concern was always that she would get to that point
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: where she's now and a very independent person and not
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: having to call me all the time for things, not
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: because I don't want her to call me, but because
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I want her. You know what, if I'm not around
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: one day, right, I don't want her to have a
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: troubled life. And I don't want to be in my
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: seventies and my kids are struggling with just being you know,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: self reliant. So every day I wake up, actually every night,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: I go to bed thinking about that the next day,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: what do my kids need and making sure they're okay.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: And then I wake up and it's just go, go,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: go go. It's it's homework, it's it's disciplined with school,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: it's you know, how they treat each other. It's making
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: sure they have all the things that they need. You know,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: my second daughter in college, and I call her about
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: if I don't hear from her sooner about every other
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: day to make sure she's okay because she's she's got
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a transition period going on right
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: now that she's struggling with. So that's my motivation is
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: just constantly thinking about them and what they need. And
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: that's the only thing that kind of gets me going.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: And that's interesting. I've had a lot of friends share
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: those emotions because it sounds like it's a psychological strength
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: of yours that you utilize to keep you motivated. Right,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: it's not physical. You're not drinking anything, You're not you know,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: injecting yourself with anything. You're not really doing anything physical
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: to give you that energy that you need to keep
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: powering through your day to accomplish what you need to
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: accomplish so that you fulfill call it your fear right
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: to to say, Okay, I did great today and I'm
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: not afraid tomorrow's another day.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Y I do it right.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: And I've had a lot of fears. When I was
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: part of Entrepreneurs organization, I was surrounded by a lot
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: of entrepreneurs and it was sort of like half of
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: them were driven by fear, the fear of failure, the
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: fear of having no money, the fear of you know,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: not making it, and then the other half were driven
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: by success like like seeing progress right, Meaning they didn't
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: use fear as a tool or an emotional tool to
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: drive them because it was more debilitating to think about
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: the fear than it was to just power through and
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: think about all the great outcomes that you're going to
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: have and not let fear hold you back. Does that
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: make sense?
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely. And some people, you know, they want to
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: be the best at something and that might be their
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: motivating factor, right, or some people, yeah, scared of I'm
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: sure there's billionaires out there that always think they're going
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: to go growth, so they're always striving for more and
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: more and more. Right, because it's we're going to be enough. Yeah.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: So I remember my dad used to say this to me.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's a lawyer thing, but he used to always,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: you know, motivate himself by by fear. And some of
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: the comments would he would say, or what we started
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: talking about, where we're not going to make peril this week,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I guess we're going to be living in our cars,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Like I'm not living in my car. Dad.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: What was his thinking when he would say that? Though?
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Was his thinking to Was he really thinking that to himself?
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I think that was his motivation. The fear of living
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: in your car, or the fear of failure or not
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: having enough money to you know, to pay the bills
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: or you know, to keep the wolves away from the door.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Right, that really was a concerning at he really him
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: we might be living in our car next week.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what motivated him. I never understood it,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: but I get it, but I never understood it. I
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: just I don't like the feeling of being debilitated by anything, right,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: And the only thing I can think of right now
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the top of my head would be like if somebody
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: was standing in front of me with the gun pointing
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: at me, and my family. I don't know what I
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: would do. You know. The default reaction would be like, hey, everything,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: you can have whatever you want. You can have all
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: my money, you can have all my cars, you can
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: have all my shit. Just leave my family alone, you know.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: And would I be scared? Hell yeah, I would be scared.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know how I can get over that, right,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: because I'm scared for my family. I'm not afraid for me.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Also, I'm the kind of guy that will go jump
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: out of an aeroplane just for fun, even though it's
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: scared of living hell out of me. Right, But I
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: don't do it because it affects my wife in a
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: negative way. She had two things in life that she
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: didn't want me to ever do well three. The third
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: one is obvious, you know, it's infidelity. I'm not going
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: to do that. I can control that. But the other
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: two or jumping out of an airplane and skydiving and
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: riding a street bike. Now I got away with the
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: street bike thing because we made a deal.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what was the deal? Was there just some safety
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: measures to.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Be taken or the honestly, it's gonna be it's gonna
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: sound ridiculously dumb, but.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Not if it helped you overcome it, or it helped
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: her overcome it. So what was it?
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: The deal was when she was off the show for
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: two years, I think she was asked to go back.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: And around that same time, my youngest son, Spencer, was
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: trying to have a relationship with his dad and they
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: ended up. I think his dad ended up getting Mahrley Davidson.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, my son never rides a bicycle. Why would
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: he be a freaking motorcycle?
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: And we get the receipts and the all that stuff
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: and the mail delivered to us, and she looks at
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: me like, did you get a motorcycle without telling me?
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I would never do that, you know,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I would never do that for you. And that gave
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: me the opportunity, long story short, to stay, well, he's
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: got a motorcycle. How come I can't get a motorcycle? Right?
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: And then she says, I'll make you a deal if
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: you let me, if you agree to go back to
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: the show, you can get a motorcycle. So okay.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: So with the quick pro crow was you know, yeah,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I'll kind of let something slide that I'm not okay
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: with if you let something slide that you're not okay with.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And it was scary.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, the scariest thing about riding a street bike
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: was riding it on a freeway. It scared the living
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: hell out of me. And it only took riding the
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: freeway two or three times when I realized it's the
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: safest place to be because everybody's going the same direction.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Grant it. You know, we're going seventy eighty ninety miles
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: an hour, but everybody's going the same direction, so it's
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: a safer than crossing the streets.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Going through a green light, yeah.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or somebody. Most accidents happen, you know, from stupidity,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: you know, the writer doing stupid shit, and the other
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: is you know, accidents where somebody just turns in front
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: of you. And that's how shit happens. When I'm writing
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: on the street, I don't do anything stupid. I write
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: really slow and very defensive. But on the freeway I
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: feel good. I can go eighty ninety miles an hour
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: and I still feel safe even though all the other
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: cars around me are going the same speed. But it
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: took me a while to get there.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was scared. I was really afraid. So you've
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: overcome quite a bit. Then you've you've not been scared
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: of being fearful. Right, you tried to sing it on.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a stereo type of men that are
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: not afraid.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Do you view that as a as a current situation
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: with our men today are younger men or is this
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: a you know, generational thing like when we grew up,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: you know, the whole you want something to cry about,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give you something.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Like, Okay, I'm not crying.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: That's how I grew up. Anyways.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's funny because when generally speaking, when
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: we raise kids, if a little girl falls down and
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: skins her knee, what do we say, oh, princess, it's okay. Yeah,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: When a boy falls down, what do we say? Generally
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: we say walk it off, It's okay. Scars and all
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: that stuff. Right, And so you can't help but say
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: that that has an effect when they're older. You know,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: when the girl gets hurt emotionally or physically, you know
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: how they're how they view it versus the male how
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: he views it.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, if you were to swap those two and
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: you raised the boy like a princess, and a girl like,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: you know, a man up. Would you have you seen
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: kind of have you met anybody like that? Like I've
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: met some pretty tough chicks.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Like Yeah, you know, I don't I don't know. It
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: have to make a difference, right, I mean it's nature
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: versus nurture, right, Yeah, it's a combination of both. So
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: what we're talking about nurturing and and how you raise them,
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: and you know, it's it's kind of scary to think
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: about how much influence a parent or an adult has
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: around a child. Yeah, I mean, you can make them
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: think and feel just about anything. And that's that's what
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I was talking about earlier. I always get concerned that,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to be the one that
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: causes them harm or damage later on in life. You know,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: we have a lot of power. So yeah, I don't know.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: I guess it would be a lifelong experiment, right to
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: raise your children ways and see, but then, you know,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's something we want to experiment with.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: But it's so unpredictable though, because the kids that we
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: have today are not the same kids when they were little.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I know, I would agree with so a whole.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Different some of them actually swap. You know, the boys
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: a little bit more sensitive than the girl, and the
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: girls like, you know, I don't care, Dad, I can
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: handle it.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I got a daughter, my daughter, Annabelle,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: who's now twelve. We I mean, of all five of
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: my children, we would all agree that she's the fearless one, right,
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: see that. I don't know we see that. But she
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: came out of the woob like that. Oh really, I mean,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: as far as we could tell, she was always like that.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: It's not like we said, walk it off or here,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: here's a dirt bike. Let's learn. She just on her own,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: would climb things, fall, get hurt, and get back on.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: We have, you know, two boys, and they're quite the opposite.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, same house, same parents, same everything, same everybody.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know for.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Whatever we do, so I don't get it.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: So I do know that Emily, you know, really loves
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: having mama boys. Right, So she love her boys, and
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: we argue and kind of have a little debate how
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: much of a part, and she's like, well, they're my boys.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm gonna do. Yeah, I'm thinking yeah, But
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: then she gets mad at me, saying there are a
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: bunch of whims. You got to toughen them up. I'm like,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: quit puddling with them in bed, and when they cry
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: and they want to sleep with you, quit doing that. Yeah,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: and then maybe we can toughen them up. But when
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: when you know? So, they're twins, right, we have twins.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: And this year the school year, I wanted them in
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: separate classes. The decision. I went to the teacher or
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: the principal and said, I want them in separate classes.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: They give the twins the option, so they allowed parents
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: to decide if they want them together or not. I
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: didn't know that. I learned that over the last few years,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: and I thought, okay, my last their last teacher said
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: one more year, she goes I would advise one more year.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: I don't remember the reasonings, but she did that, so
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: I honored that because she was a teacher. Then the
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: next year, which was fourth grade, I made a decision.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I told the school separate classes please, and interesting, one
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: of them was not having it, plaining, crying, and I
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: kept telling Emily, no, he's got to learn, because there
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: is all the more reason why they're in separate classes.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Exactly what happens lo and behold magically they go in
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: the same class. I find out when one of the kids,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: one of them, it was Luke, who was all excited
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: he was going to the other classroom and I'm like
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: what And then mom called to school and had them together,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: and so you know, Mom, I know you'll have to
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: tease her next time you see her. So you know,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: did she baby them? Yes? Can I say that that's wrong? No?
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I disagreed with it. Yeah, but you know, to sit
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: here and say it's wrong. And I don't really know.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Maybe it would have gone the other way around. Maybe
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: he would have been overly depressed and really focused on
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: his schooling. I don't know.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: I did disagree with that. I thought, here, you are
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: yelling at me to toughen him up. Well, yeah, taking
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: him from one classroom to the next so he can
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: be with his little brother.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it's hard only because I've seen my
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: kids evolved and done different things, and you know, just
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: the and they're still growing into who they are as characters. Right,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: they have a whole life ahead of them. And I
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: say that because I'm the same but the different person today.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: You know that I was when I was younger.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I imagine we're the same but with much more experiences
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: and ability to make decisions. Right, But that doesn't mean
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: we don't think differently, Like the same thoughts come through
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: our head, the same fears. Like you you still you
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: know you have a fear of fighters, yeah, or needles,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: let's use needs that. You know you have a fear
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: of needles. Yeah, but you've overcome it, right, so you
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: you didn't really, you just changed the way you approach it.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: And there's another thing that's kind of happened to me
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: in my old age. I'm a lot more empathetic I can.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: I take the perfect example is road rage. You know,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: when I was younger, I'd get pissed off, and you know,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I'd cut them off or i'd make a point. Nowadays,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I understand people have shit going on there in their lives.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: And if you cut me off, whether it's or on purpose,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: as long as there's no accident or you made me
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: do something, you know, like have my own accident, then
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: we don't have a problem. Just let them go, you know,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: let them be. You don't know what their situation is.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: There's no reason for me to aggravate myself or or
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: you know, make it a bigger deal than it is.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: But when I was younger, it's a whole different story,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: like oh yeah, oh yeah, you better believe it was.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: I'm very much there with you. I rarely use the horn,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: and I teach my children. I'm like, I used to
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: use it all the time. I don't know, maybe they didn't.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: They don't see that it's a you know, they don't
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: see Maybe I don't see what's ahead of them, you know,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: like they want to make a right turn. I don't
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: see what's ahead of them, So maybe I should be
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: so quick to judge, and then a lot of the
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: pedestrian there or other times it's just like I said,
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: it's not is this really going to solve the problem
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: by me getting after this person? Are they really going to, like,
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: you know, have a come to Jesus moment and sit
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: there and think, hey, I better be you know, more
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: of an obadi and driver. No, so you're right, you
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: let it go. Plus, we've heard stories at our age
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: you never know who that person is that you're gonna know.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's the other thing I was just
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: gonna mention is there's been many times I pulled into
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: my neighborhood and there's this person driving like an idiot,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: and I just either want to, you know, rip around
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: him or honk on them. And then I realized he's
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: in my neighborhood, and you know, really, he's probably gonna
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: be three degrees away from my neighbors. They're going to
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: talk about it, and I don't want to be the jerk,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: so I have to hold myself back, like, just chill out,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: slow down, it's okay, there's no rush here.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: I would agree with you on the road rage. I
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: think that's a really good example that might be a
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: lot of men as they get older, they realize, you know,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: it's not that big of a deal, and I'm not
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: going to get any get there any slower, right, I mean,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: you know, you know another thing is how many times
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: if I cut someone off I don't even know? Yeah, right,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: So I might be that person, and I'm grateful that
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: you're not honking at me if I cut you off unintentionally.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: You fear that I do have, but I never really
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: had to experience it. And I've told this to many people,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: but I don't have to experience it. Is it's bears,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: bears Okay, there was to be scared of, it would
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: be a bear. Because a crocodile allegator, you could jump
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: on a table, right, these you could probably Yet, they
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: say you can run, zig zag or whatever. Right, you know,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: dogs you could probably fight off somewhat, right, I mean
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: that don't mean you won't go with injury. But you
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: have a chance with a bear. What can you do?
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: You can't dimb a tree, you can't even probably hide
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: in your closet or a car. You can't run faster
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: than them, they say, the only thing you can do
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: is run down hill Because bears their rear legs or
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: paws are shorter than their front so they have difficulty
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: running down hill. But how I don't have I'd have
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: to search for a hill to run down, so just
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: getting to that hill would be a problem. Yeah, I
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: mean if I could even make it that far. But
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: I've always thought if there's some animal to be scared of,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: it would be a bear. And they say, what do
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: they say to do when you encounter a bear?
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: What are you to play dead?
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Wait? Hell, you know, good luck? I'm sorry. I can't
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: play dead. I will run like crazy, no way.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, it is scary. That's that's something I
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: have feared when I'm out in the woods on my motorcycle.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: But and I've even seen videos where bears, you know,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: come after them and all they do is, you know,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: throttle it and make a bunch of noise and that
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: usually scares them.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: But if there's I don't know if I could take
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: that chance.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know either. I don't know.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm going to sit there and think, well,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: maybe I'll bring these pots and pans and it'll run away,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: or instead of wasting these thirty precious seconds, I'm gonna start.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Running right Yeah, Or especially if there's a cop around,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: like your dust, if there's a cover around, he's going
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: to eat you just to protect their cups. Yeah, that's
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: that's a that's a legitimate fear. Do you know speaking
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: of bears, that in California they outlawed bear spray. You
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: cannot buy bear spray. When I went to Montana on
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: a on a motorcycle trip, it was everywhere, I mean every.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Story that was out everywhere.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And when I came home, and I don't remember
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: how we were talking about bears, I said, well, just
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: get some bear spray. I mean it's I I discovered
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: it in Montana. I try to order it. They wouldn't
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: deliver into California.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: A large canister of probably intense like pepper spray or something.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: But it's large and it's sprayed like and then far.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean if it if it diverts a bear,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: it must be pretty poete. I don't know. I don't know.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't look into that deep, but I was like, okay,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: just you know, take my guns away and my bear
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: spray away.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Burglars will use that if there's a dog, that'll incapacitate
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: the dog.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I wonder if that's one of the thinkings.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: But I don't know. I don't know what California law thinks.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: So you do in Utah. In Utah, there were bears
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: when we lived there, and there were bear attacks and unfortunately, jeez, fatalities.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: It was It wasn't common, but it certainly happened my
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: time there.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Do you have any fear of flying, particularly in what's
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: going on right now with all these planes falling out
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: of the sky.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: So I have I do have a fear of flying,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: but it's never stopped me from traveling anywhere. There's always
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: that concern that the planet would down, but I know
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: statistically it's very unlikely, so I shouldn't be worried. And
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: oddly enough, one thing that I have done over the
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: past five years is I read a lot about airplanes.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: I've read a lot about crashes, disasters, why they happen.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: I've watched a lot of videos. My daughter Annabel started
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: watching it with me, and she really enjoyed it. She
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: would I would always try to make a with it, right, like,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: this is what went wrong, this is this is why
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: they You know, the pilot shouldn't have left the child
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: in the cockpit. Believe it or not, that's a story.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: So all these different things I would stare they're okay,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: as we'll get something good out of it. So she
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: goes flying with Emily to Ohio and Emily has a
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: very big fear of flying. I don't know. We don't
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: even like to sit next to each other when she's
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: flying because she is she is a mess. So she
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: flies to Ohio calls me when they land to get
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: upset with me because apparently Annabel, who was like nine
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: at the time, I think. So when the stewardess or
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: the flight attendant's going over like some of the things.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: And the flight attendant's done with all the basic emergency
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: precaution and instructions, walks by and Annabel raises her hand
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: and says, I have a question, and the flight tens
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: says yes. She goes, what do we do in the
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: case of a nose dive? And Emily says the flight
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: attendants like mouth is dropped. That doesn't not just shouting
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: out what do we do in the event of those dives?
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: So this is prior to her like five hour flight, right,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: so just on edge, yeah, and thinking about yeah, but
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: she's also not scared. This little girl's thinking, hey, if
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: our plane starts to go straight down, what do we do?
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: You know? And it's just like, just let me know
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: what I'm supposed to do, you know.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So we do that a lot and and and
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I still do. I read a lot about it. I
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: love the idea of flying. Yeah, you know, we went
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: and flew on A friend's husband has a she six
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: fifty and he flies it though, so he holds it
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: and he flies it, right, Okay, So when we went
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: somewhere a year or two ago, whenever it was, I
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: wasn't in the back taking photo, was with all these
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: ladies that want to get the ex fancy. So as
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: I was up in the cockpit in the jump seat,
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: oh awsome, that was a treat. That was really something.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: And so here I am kind of scared of flying,
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: but I am facing it because I know statistically it's
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: it's just unlikely, you know, so I kind of think
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't be scared, even though so I am.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I I don't think I've ever been afraid of flying,
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: because the only thing I can think of is the
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: people I've flown with that have freaked out have either
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: looked at me for you know, comfort or weirdnness.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Because I'm not afraid the planes, you know, doing all
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: this stuff and all this weird stuff happening in the plane.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: I'm like, it's just what planes do. That's the big deal,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: right exactly.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Bump in the road.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I and I, particularly with plane crashes, I
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: try not to watch them because then I'm going to
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: start you know. It's kind of like that fear of addiction.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have that thought because it's an image I've seen,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: and if I'm on a plane, I might revert back
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: to that image that I saw that may or may
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: not happen.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Right, So I go with Emily, who's an example of
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: someone that has a fear of flying. While she's flying,
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: I know what she's doing. She's thinking of crashing. Yeah,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: so of course you're scared. She's thinking, we're gonna crash.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: We're gonna crash, We're gonna crash, We're gonna crash. And
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: then so naturally you'd be scared. You know. I reminded
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: of a time I flew to Colorado, and I can
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: tell you what year it was. It was in oh
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: oh eight. So, landing in Colorado and Denver, Windy city, right,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: the plane kind of going sideways and this and that
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: and rock in a little bit, landing next to an
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: airplane that had crashed landed.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: So out the window, I'm looking and we see off
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: to another runway and like right in front of us
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: that is just mashed into the ground. The wings are
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: off and everything's just the fuselages is broken up. And
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: it was like, oh that was It was kind of comical, right,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, yeah, I saw this plane
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: crash just yesterday, and here I am landing right next
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: to it.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: So that that would be kind of scary.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So American Airlines flight is going from I think
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: it was that land er somewhere in the US across
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: seas had a divert to Rome with fighter jets escorting them,
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: And there's a lot of video footage of it. You
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: can find it because there was a bomb scare. It
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: ended up being not an issue, but there was a
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: bomb there, so two fighter jets were flying alongside it
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: to escort it to Rome. Now, how would you feel
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: if you had a window seat and you see two
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: fighter jets that are escorting you because there's a supposed
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: bomb on board that may go off.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure they didn't tell anybody why they were diverted, right.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know. More scary? Why do I have these
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: fighter jets? Are they all?
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: The first thing I would think is terrorism? There's something happening. Yeah,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: that would probably scare me a little.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: I think that's the hell out of me.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I could see that and that that kind of
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: reminds me of a fear that I just remembered I
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: had recently recently, as I want to say six years ago,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: I went mountain biking to Big Bear and I hadn't
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: been there in a while. And you know, when you're
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: skiing and you get on the lift and you look down,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: everything's white, so there's no real perception of death or
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: height or anything like that. But when you're on a
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: dry land and you're on this chair and you look down,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: it's pretty far. And for some reason I started getting scared,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: like panic attack scared, and I'm like, what is wrong
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: with me? I'd never ever been afraid of heights. In fact,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: I love heights. I love going to the tallest building
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: in the world and looking down to me, that's that's
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: just powerful, it feels it makes me feel confident. Why
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: am I afraid of this right now?
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like you're you came across the stair
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: because you were thinking about falling. You're thinking, if I fell,
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I canfue I fall this far, there's trees or whatever,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: there's rocks, and yeah, bring yourself falling, and then yeah,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: hell yeah, that's scary.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: And of course the why is is it because I'm
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: getting older that I'm starting to fear these things? Is
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: this going to start happening with other things? Because I
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: don't like to be scared, and if I am scared,
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: I try to flip it and use it as energy
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: to get over the fear. Right. So that's kind of
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: why sometimes I say I thrive on fear, the fear
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: of failure. I will push myself to the edge as
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: hard as I can, so I don't fear the fear
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: of pain. You know, I will figure out a way
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: around it or even push through the pain because I
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: know on the other side of that is no pain. Right.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: So maybe that's just the way I'm wired.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: But well, certainly a quality that you should embrace. But
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: when you're on a chair lift, what could you do
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: to the fears you're kind of not so, Yeah, it's
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: understandable that maybe you felt I don't have control, I
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: could fall. There's nothing I can do about it, right,
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: I can't step away. I can't. I can't, you know,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: secure myself any further in any way.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But the complicated part is I've never ever had
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: that fear because I've been I've done that that the
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: chairlifts on on the summer, riding my mountain bikes in
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: various places, and I've never ever been afraid to.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: Get sweats or shaky or anything, or I.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Got little scared. I got shaky, Yeah, like stop looking
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: down kind of thing, where like normally I'm looking at
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: for fear enjoy.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, have you been on that lift since I have?
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: I have. Again, It's one of those things that it
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: scares me, but I'm going to keep doing it until
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I'm no longer scared. And it worked and I think
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: I ended up getting like three or four runs that day.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: But it was just a weird feeling to think, how
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: forty fifty years later am I feeling fear. I shouldn't
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: be fearing fear. I mean, this is just the way
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: I handle fear, you know, I thrive on it sometimes
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: and I don't like it to debilitate me, so I
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: try to convert it to energy.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Well, that's interesting. You know what's interesting would be a
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: statistic on how many people actually suffer death from the
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: thing they feared the most. Right, It's probably very little. Right,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Like I might be scared of a bear my whole
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: life and I never come across one. I never so
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: what so I wasted whatever time it was being scared
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: of a bear or fear of flying. But you know,
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: you could spend your whole life being scared of flying,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: but you never really have an airline crash on you
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: so right, you know, it's like we're scared for I
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: guess you could say no reason when there's probably things
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: that were not fearful of that are actually going to
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: cause us some harm.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fear debilitates a lot of people from living their life,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: you know, fear of you know, when you start a business,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: like you're afraid to start a business because you're afraid
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: that you're going to fail. And you don't start a
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: relationship because you're afraid you're going to get hurt. You
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: don't have kids because you're afraid you're not going to
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: be able to afford them, and you know, various things
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: like that. Do you do you fear love at all?
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Have you ever been afraid to fall in love?
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: No? I don't. I don't think I can. I know
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: I never really thought enough about love to be scared
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: of it. I never really did, I mean, I guess yeah, no, No.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: The fear as far as family goes, The fear of
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: my children is worry that they will grow up with
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: trouble or difficulties, or they might have their own addictions
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: or things that are you know, you know, prevent them
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: from living a life of you know, comfortable life, that
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: would be it. I don't fear, you know, falling in love.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: I guess I do have concerns that Emily would. You know,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: if Emily and I were to part ways, I certainly
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: wouldn't like that, so I wouldn't do everything I could
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: prevent that from happening. I know, coming on the show,
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Emily joining the Housewives, I guess you could say I
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: had fear of that because you know, statistically and historically
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: you see families fall apart on the show. Whether it's
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: coincidence or the show or how they handle it, I
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: can't say, but it does happen. My concern was for
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: her to then maybe take her life in a different direction,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm better than this, or getting a big head,
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: or wanting to be gone so much to pursue whatever
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: opportunity to come her way that she wouldn't be around
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: us anymore. Yeah, those were my concerns, and I did
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: express that to her, and that was that was my
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: main concern about the show, was family unit. And I'm
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: very glad that that didn't end up being the case.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: And it certainly didn't stop me from allowing it didn't.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: It didn't cause me to prevent Emily from being on
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: the show, nor could I write I mean that she
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: make that decision for her solely. But that was a
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: very big worrisome for me. And that's why the first
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: couple of years I wasn't very comfortable on camera. Wasn't
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: because of the camera, was because I was just really
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: on edge about where is this going to go?
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Right? That makes sense, and that that was it.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: And then fortunately we've overcome that and realized that that's
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: not the case, and so you know, we're able to
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: navigate her being on the show and being a part
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: of all the ladies and everything, you know, during this time.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, if anything, it's made us stronger
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: because we've worked together on how how to navigate this,
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: how to navigate her schedule, the opportunities that come our away,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: how do we work, what parts do we team up on,
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: what parts are just for you?
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, I could see that, and I think
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: when we first got together, my wife and I, the
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: camera didn't scare me. I think I remember talking to
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: you about taking acting classes when I was younger, so
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: cameras weren't totally you know, foreign, and they still kind
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: of put me.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: You know they're there. Yeah, you know they're there.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Now, I know they're there. But in the beginning, I
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: don't know if I remember telling you this, but well,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: first time we ever filmed, I was all gonna ready
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: to go. I'm like, I could do this. I've been
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: on camera before, you know this. It's going to be
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: easy and just be myself. How hard can that be?
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't until the production walked into the house
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: and they all introduced themselves very nice, and then suddenly
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: these big ass cameras walked in and I looked at
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: it and I turned white. My wife said, I backed
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: myself against the wall and I said, I can't do this.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: It became real at that point.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: I guess it became real and I just remembered I
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: was actually afraid. And of course, seven shots of tequila
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: later and I think half a bottle of wine that
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: took away all the fear, and I did stupid shit.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: That was the very first time we ever filmed where
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: we did the tub scene. I don't know if you
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: remember the tubs. Yeah, it was just I mean, where
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: do you go from there? Right? But that's a moment
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: I was I was actually afraid of when when I
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: first got on the show, Yeah I was afraid.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, there's I don't think. I don't
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: think if anyone said they weren't afraid to be on
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: a show, I don't know if I would believe them.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: There might be different levels of concern and worries them
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: in fear, you know, fear how they look on TV.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Fear if they are going to get along, if they're
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: going to be liked or hated. There's got I mean,
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: no one can say that it's jump in and got
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: no problems with it.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: I think ultimately though, it's how you handle them right,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: how you handle fear, because it's it's up there with jealousy.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Jealousy is an emotional feeling, irrational emotional feeling that sometimes
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: can you know, be quantified. If your wife or your partners,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: you know, flirting or something, or trying to make you
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: jealous so that they like you more. I guess it's
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: a manipulation tool. But when I was young, I made
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: a determination that I am not going to let jealousy
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: get the best of me. And I have thought even
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: if I am jealous, I'm not going to show it
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: because it's just going to produce negative emotions and negative results.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Experience some jealousy, and then it was then that you
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: realize what you were experiencing, and so you made that
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: effort to, you know, stay away from that.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: I think so which which goes along in the same
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: lines as fear, you know, And I don't know how
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: old I was when I finally realized fear is stabilitating
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: and if you let it cripple you, you're not going
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: to do anything in life, or experience anything in life,
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: or really live life. You know, I sense I see
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: fear as a limitation for people that just absolutely sometimes
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: it's justifiable. You know, Let's say you had a traumatic
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: experience when you were young. This is this is probably
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: a terrible example, but let's say you were molested when
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: you were young, you know, continually molested, and it becomes
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: sort of a normal thing, and then you grow up
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: as an adult and you become a pedophile because of
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: what happened to you, and you think it's normal when
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: in reality it's it's not a normal thing, and society
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: is not going to accept that. But do you fear
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: that society is not accept it, or do you fear
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: that you're going to get caught? Go to jail.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is it?
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: I guess fear would be acceptable if it's for your
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: own safety, right, So it's fear of you know, like
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: in your example of maybe growing up in an unfortunate
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: household where there's abuse, So now you're prospective of your
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: just your safety. Yeah, so I'm going to stay away
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: from this type of person because I've experienced that they
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: hurt me physically or they harm my lifestop right, not
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: just they hurt my feelings so they said something rude,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: but they actually debilitate me from living a life. Right,
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you know, speaking of fear, though, we have
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: a we had we have a foster dog and uh,
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: which I imagine will not be a foster dog. But for
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: now I'm like, I'm like, he's trying to sell me
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: on it being a foster on. It's our third dog
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: that we have right now. Oh my gosh, very very
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: scared of everything. Okay, six months old. We believe never really,
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing based on her behavior, never experienced human interaction,
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: at least good human interaction with you know, compassion and whatnot.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: And it's and she is always protecting herself. She's running
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: away from me. She never turns her back on me
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: or Emily. She's stopping up to Emily now. But she's
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: very fearful and and it's it's natural for her, right
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: because she's experienced things that might cause her harm and
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: injury and death. So she's doing what she can to
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: stay alive. It's right, it's just survival. So it's it's
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: based on her experiences. And there's no doubt in my
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: mind that she's just trying to stay alive, right, not
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: that she's you know, a whim right whatever, experienced abuse
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: or whatever it was. She's trying to stay alive. And
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: so I guess humans can you know, if we're if
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: I've experienced, you know, being injured by a weapon, and
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: so now I choose to stay away from that weapon. Yeah,
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: that's be pretty valid.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: That's yeah, that's that is valid. Yeah, going back to love,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: which is kind of along the same lines of what
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: we were just talking about. For me, I think I
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: fell in love for the first time as a teenager,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: my first girlfriend. I was madly in love and I
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: was afraid, you know, because growing up to me, love
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: was so important and so valuable and so sentimental and
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: you just cannot fall in love with just anybody, right,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: it's like marrying. You can't just marry anybody. You got
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: to marry somebody that you can spend the rest of
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: your life with, or somebody that you love. So when
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: I fell in love, it was it was awesome. I
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: thought she was going to be the one for the
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: rest of my life.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: And what.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a fear. It wasn't a fear. But when
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: she broke up and we broke up, the pain was
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: so deep and so emotional and so detrimental that I
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: said that I am never falling in love again.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: And it took seven years for me to finally fall
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: in love again, fell in love with this beautiful woman
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: that just was everything that I know ever wanted. And unfortunately,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: five years later that relationship ended and again debilitating. I
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: couldn't leave the house for three days. I was in
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: the fetal position and I cried, and it was the
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: hardest pain I've experienced next to my broken collarbone.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: And then and how did you overcome either of those?
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: I think, Well, my dad, you know one thing I'll
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: never forget he said during that time, was just get
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: up and put one foot in front of the other.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: And you will get past it. And it took time. Yeah,
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: it definitely took time. But again the second time, I
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: was heartbroken, devastated. I said, I'm never falling in love again.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: But I it was in my probably my mid twenties
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: at the time, and I decided, you know what, I'm
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: not going to look for love anymore. I'm just going
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: to be partying, having a good time, working.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: And take care of yourself kind of thing.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Care of myself.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: You won't bring anyone in your little circle.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I fell in love again and it
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: wasn't deep love, but it was sort of like I
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: don't know if I is the right person, you know.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: And even though I didn't fall in love with her,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: I introduced her to all my friends, especially the very
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: critical ones that you know, just protect me, and they
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: loved her. They said she's amazing, she's so different, she's awesome.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: And I ended up marrying her. The night before I
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: was freaking out and just like, am I doing the
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: right thing? I don't know. I was literally sitting on
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: the floor just contemplating my life, and she came to me,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: She's like, are you sure you want to do this?
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't know? When everyone wants to hear.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: And of course that didn't last very long. And then
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: when I met Tiamra, it was one of those things
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: like that's it. I'm not falling in love, not falling
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: forward again. I'm just gonna have a good time. And
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: the chemistry was there. What I think I experienced the
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: very first time I saw her was love at first sight,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: but I wasn't ready to let it happen. But when
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: I saw her, I saw birds, I saw stars, I
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: saw out all these tingly feelings in my body, but
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: I did everything I could to suppress it because I
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: didn't want to be vulnerable like that again. Right. And
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: the other part of it is she was married at
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: the time, So why am I going to pursue something
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: that I'm not gonna, you know, be able to have?
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: But why am I getting these feelings? It was such
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: a weird situation. And it wasn't until not even you know,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: when she left her husband and we went on a
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: first date. It was probably just before, like a month
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: before we got married, you know, leading up to it,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: planning and everything. You know, It's about a year of
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: all that and I'm just going through the motions. I'm
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: like yeah, I guess I'm getting married. But I think
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: it was when I was sitting at the altar looking
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: at her that it hit me like, holy shit, I'm
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: in love. This is happening. And what I've experienced in
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: my life at the end of the day is I'd
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: rather be in love and feel the pain of breaking
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: up than never ever feeling love. Because what I know
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: now in my fifties is even today, my love just
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: gets getting deeper and deeper with Tama. The more time
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: I spend with her, the more challenges we have with life,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: and the more things we experienced together, It's bringing me
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: deeper and deeper connected with her. Where I'm getting back,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: I think, close to that level of love when I
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: first experienced it as a teenager, where I thought like
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: I found that this is the greatest feeling in my
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: life and.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Right you're completely fulfilled and everything's great. Yeah.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm there now, but it took a while
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: to get there, which is the interesting journey for me,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: Like I'm not afraid to fall in love, but I
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: was afraid when I was younger because it was so painful,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: and there was a period of seven years between love
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: and another period of five years between love and then this
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: one was maybe fifteen years where I started feeling like, Okay,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: I can trust this person. I can open up to
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: this person and give my heart and be vulnerable and
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: talk to her and you know, share her, you know,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: with her what really scares me and what I really
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: want to accomplish in life. And I say that because
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: you know, there's this this stereo type. But men being men,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: men are not supposed to be afraid of anything.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: You're not allowed to cry. You're not cry.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: You're not supposed to cry. You're not supposed to be afraid.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: You're not supposed to be vulnerable. What are you? What
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: are your thoughts on that? Do you agree or disagree? No?
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: I agree? You know we talked to earlier. You know,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: you tell the little kid to walk it off, get
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: back on your bike and go, you're fine, tough it
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: out right, and then the girl don't. We don't generally speaking,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: we don't say that, we put a band aid on it.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: We hug them, you know. In that so it's understandable
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: that you would grow up not you, you, but men
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: in general would grow up thinking we're not supposed to cry,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: and women won't like that, right, if I sit there
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: and cry on my third date with whomever, I don't
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: think there's going to be a fourth date. Right, that's
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: what we're thinking, Right, She's like, maybe that's not the case.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: But then that begs the question do our women taught that, Hey,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: you know, men shouldn't be crying. He's weak. Yeah, so yeah,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know. You know, I was married prior and
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: without finding she left, and she left and moved out
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: of state and took my two kids. And it was
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: heart breaking for you, Oh yeah, because I there was
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: no plan. It was just they were gone. It's different
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: if it's hey, this is what I want my life,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: I'm going to leave you and I'm going to move there,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: and you know we figured it out. But that wasn't
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: the case. It was they were gone, and that probably
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: as we're talking about, this is probably what my worry
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: was with the family unit when Emily got on the show.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: Maybe I would have had that concern anyway, but I'm
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: sure I was thinking, I'm going to lose my kids again.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: Right if you move, you know, you leave me and
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: this and that the family breaks up. I'm not going
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: to see my kids. Saying yeah, so that was you know,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: there's no doubt in my mind that that caused a
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: lot of worry for me. With the family unit being
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: broken up again. It was it was a pretty bad experience,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: you know, at that time, and not seeing your kids
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: for a couple weeks, not knowing where they are and
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: trying to find them, and then and then having to
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: transition back into that and so, yeah, you know, I
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: and I know Emily and I have I mean, I
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: don't think it's a secret. We've had times where we
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: think we want to split up or this and that
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: because we're just in some heated moment, and then we
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: both start to think, is this what we want? Do
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: we We've been trade one set of problems for another,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: So do we want to lose our kids? We want
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: to break up the family? And then we kind of
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: come to terms. And I know, I'm a big believer
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: in just kind of trying to work it out and
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: keep the family together. And that might have to do
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: with what I've experienced before.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think the difference in your religion scared
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: you getting into the that deep of religion of a
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: relationship with Emily.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: A little bit? Because you know, you worry about being
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: judged or or you know, having different outlooks on life.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: But you know, fortunately, I think both of us have
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: the same outlook on life, which is family is important,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: family in it, and respecting each other and kind of
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: you know, living a you know, kind of a decent
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: life and respecting one another's views. I know Emily, as
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: she's gotten older, she's kind of softened up and become
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: a little bit you know, as we all should.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: Yea.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: And so you know, it hasn't really caused any riffs
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: in our relationship, that's for sure. Yeah, sometimes scheduling issues
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: and things like that. You know, I go to church
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: on Sundays. Sometimes she comes, sometimes she doesn't. I just
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: let her and I always take the kids. So you
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: know that that's a little awkward on those days because
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: but but we respect each others, you know.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's super important in any relationship, is
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: to respect each other because once you lose that, you know,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: it's it's hard to come back to that. Let's talk
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: a little bit about your experience and becoming a lawyer.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: I know you took the bar three times. Were you
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: ever afraid that you weren't gonna make it or were
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: you just determined Yeah, that.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: Was It was a little bit of both. You know,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: it was pretty determined, but I also was fearful that
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: it would never happen. Not to blame, not to place
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: blame elsewhere, But it was really tough while this show
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: was going that I'm supposed to sit there and also
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: juggle my older two kids and their schedules with their mother,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: who which was not the easiest. So juggling that juggling
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: you know what was she three or four year old
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: daughter with you know, two year old twins. Yeah, and
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: then my wife's were rigorous schedule and me having to
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: quit my job and then prepare and finances, as we've
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: talked about earlier, it was very hard on me. And
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: so yeah, for that reason, I thought, I'm never going
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: to pass because under these circumstances. Yeah, at least for me,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: under these circumstances, it's not going to happen.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's like looking at Mount Whitney and going,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: how the hell am I going to do this?
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, unless I'm going to do something different, which is
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: all those factors. Unless I remove some of those, like
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: you know, Emily's at home all the time, or our
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: finances are in order, or the mother my older two children,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: was more cooperative, like then what might have been eating?
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: But I was like, nothing's changing. I'm still going to
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: go through this hellhole, you know. And Emily's sit in there,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: you know, when I'm supposed to kind of a comedy
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: in her schedule to take care of the kids. And
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: and I'll blame on Emily. She was doing what she could.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: But it was, Yeah, it was very worrisome that I
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: would never pass. And I'm just going to be this
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: endless you know, I'm in this endless pursuit of getting
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: a bar license and it never happened. I had one
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: in Utah, but I didn't have one in California. So
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: it was it was And the other fear was embarrassment. Sure,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: there's away embarrassment, you know, being in feeling inferior. You know,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: there's people that have been in worse conditions in my
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: that pass, right, so it can be done, and here
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: I am not being able to do it.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but you did it. Yeah, And and what
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: do you think contributed the most for you to accomplish
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: that goal to pass the bar?
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: You know, it was it was just kept putting to
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: you know, I'll be honest, I don't think I did
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: anything different as I should have. I was really first
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: of all, it was quite a while ago, so so
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: my memory is a little vague, but it was just,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: you know, they did change the the the guidelines of
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: the bar exam, which kind of worked in my favor
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: as much as you know, I don't want to say that,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: but it did work in my favor. So that kind
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: of gave me the little edge I needed. I'm pretty
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: certain I would have eventually passed, but nonetheless that that's
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: where I was. So it was it was a scary time.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: It was a scary time.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've you. I always thought about this when I
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: was working with my dad, like the fear of going
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: to court. Do you go to court a lot?
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I didn't hear that. I have a
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: fear in terms of just doing well. Yeah, we're doing
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: well for the client, doing well for for the owner
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: of the law firm. Yeah. But I'm not scared in
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: front of a judge, because.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: Were you though the very first time? Thank you the
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: first case.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I could, I could. I was nervous. I was
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: practicing in Utah and I was thrown in judges all
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: the time. Oh, that's right, okay, but it was it
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: was I was nervous yacause you know, you feel people
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: are looking at you and now you're going to look
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: like a beginner. You don't know what you're doing, you know,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: you don't know the proper terminology, right, and you sound
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: like an idiot. That was a concern, But in front
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: of it, because of the judge, I was not scared. Now,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there're people so yeah, they really are.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: Course, I know pretty.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: Much lawyers that don't want to be lawyers, right, don't
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: they know better? And you know, have I been depart
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: by judge in front of people? Absolutely? Really? Oh wow,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: I think everyone has. Absolutely. Yeah, And that's more embarrassing
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: than it's fearful. That for me, that's embarrassing. And that's
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: like sister, she's overcome it, but she I think she
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: would even vomit before she went before a judge. Oh
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: really really scared. Yeah, but she also would admit it.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: She wasn't hiding. Yeah, And but I don't know what happened.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Then a few years go by, you know, we kind
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: of you know, she's doing her thing, I'm doing mine,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: and I don't really connect with her on that level.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, I realized, Oh, she's
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: going to court and she seems fine. She's picking court calls,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: she's doing it online, she's going in person, so she
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: overcame it somehow. I should find out how she did that.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting times. My neighbor's an attorney as well,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: and I see a lot of him, you know, during
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: the day, you know, because I have a pretty easy schedule.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: And I asked him recently, like, didn't you go to
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: court anymore? It's like, zoom, I don't even have to
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: get us anymore. That would take fear completely away. Like
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: just the thought of being in chambers and fighting, you know,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: with the opponent and talking to a judge that scares me,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: like that would drive me. It spins my head. But
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: I also see that, you know, once you've done that
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: a few times, like anything else, you become very proficient
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: at it and the fear goes away and now you
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: know what you're saying doing And that just takes practice, right,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: practicing law right.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: Well, they always say you fear what you don't know, right, Yeah,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: So if you've been there, you've experienced it many times.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: You've ridden your bike on the freeway many times. Now
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: it's no longer an unknown to worry about.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So speaking of do you, did you ever fear
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: being a lawyer or was that just something you always
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: wanted to do?
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: Well? I kind of kind of went that direction because
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: my parents would let me become a cop. Okay, Like literally,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: I interviewed, I took the exams, I took the physicals.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: I even got you know then as a you know,
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: for PDI and Orange, and then I had to back out,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: probably cut mostly because of my parents and you know,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: them having a worry and they were always scared and
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: they didn't like it, and probably they want me sending
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: in an office and YadA, YadA, YadA. Yeah, and you know,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: maybe if I really really wanted it, I should I
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: could have done it, But you know, I made the
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: choice to back out. So I was fearful of my mother.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: We could say.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: That's a big deal.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: If if if in my profession, what was I fearful of?
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: It would probably be being successful, you know, whole good job,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: earning more money every year doing them, not in front
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: of the judge or in front of a client or
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: co workers or anything.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: Were you at all concerned or afraid of starting that
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: podcast with your wife. I think it's called Legally Brunette.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, No, my wife is, I mean Emily Is.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: She loves that stuff. She could talk about it all
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: day long. She she overworks to study those cases and
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: learn the facts, you know, the interesting cases that are
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: kind of you know, across the media, high profile. So
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: I knew that she would take the lead on that,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: and I think she does really well. And my place
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: in that I've learned was I'll just be the viewer
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: that asks the questions, right, Okay, I'm asking the questions
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: that the viewers want to know. So I go in
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: she has more of the knowledge, and then I asked
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: these lay term questions, right, and I answer those questions,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: and so we have a good connection that way. Here
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: she is presenting the cases talking about them, and then
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: I asked the questions on when I think is on
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: behalf of the viewers, because you know, you can get
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: really legally in the way you talk, so it's kind
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: of breaking her down. Yeah. So no, we do well
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: with that, and that that's enjoyable for me.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome. How often do you do that?
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: It's twice a month. Yeah, we're doing twice a month
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: and right now she's covering the Blake Lively and Baldoni case.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: That's a big one. I don't know if you know
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: that one. I'm sure viewers do. That's a big one.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: There's some pr disputes and creative differences on the set
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: of it ends with us, and so there's some sexual
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: harassment allegations and things like that. It's getting pretty heated.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: I think with Blake Lively being such a big star,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: that's caught a lot of attention from people. The other
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: case that she's doing that, we like to cover the
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: Menendez trial. Okay, so she's doing that. I'm sure you've
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: heard that one.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: I have. Yeah, there's a whole documentary on that.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of documentaries on that. So she's fascinated
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: by that one because that is interesting. The case is
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: where you know, you could kind of go either way.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: You do both points, and that's what makes it interesting
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: to talk about.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you fear it at all? About practicing law?
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: I think disappointing clients. You know, clients, unfortunately, they naturally
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: they come in with expectations, right, I'm going to win
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: this case. I practice workers competations with people that get
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: injured on the job. We represent the insurance companies and employers, right,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: so the injured worker gets injured, they have a right
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: to file a claim because it's a no fault state,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: so the employers should cover their injuries at their work
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: related right. So it's a right that they have and
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: I support that. But we represent the insurance compani's employees.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: So you know a lot of times the employers will
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: just without really knowing all the details, they think, no,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: this is this is no break. That guy's a jerk.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: He got hurt playing soccer on the weekend and not here.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, but we got to go through this
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: process to get that if that needs in the case.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: So disappointing clients is my concern, so I always try
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: to give them realistic expectations. My very first case that
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: I tried all by myself was an adoption case. So
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: a family wanted to adopt the child and terminate the
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: parental rights of the father.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: Who was an absence, which is really hard.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's a tough one too, because you
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: know the emotions involved. My fear in that case was
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: not winning because this loving family and the stepfather who
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: just did everything for this child, and was the father's
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: as far as I was concerned, because the biological father
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: was Mia, like truly Mia until the case services, and
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: of course he wants to act like he's fathered the
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: hear and stop everything. That was my fear was then
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: this family leaving the courtroom not having the ability to
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: adopt the child, and then now they can't bring up
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: this case for a number of years. Yeah, and so
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: now they're stuck in this position of now we have
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: this biological father has been brought back into the life
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: because of the lawsuit, and now he's causing havoc in
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: our household. And that was I was terrified that I
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: would lose this case. That was all on me there,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: I had no partners. I was working by myself, all
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: on me, and you know, and I had never tried
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: a case before. So I'm up there putting witnesses on
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: the stand, asking questions, doing all this stuff, trying to
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: prepare case. And I didn't know the threshold, you know,
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: how much is enough? Yeah. I don't have the experience
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: to say, yeah, we got enough evidence. Yeah, So I
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: just had to keep going and going and going, and
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: I probably overdid it anyway, I succeeded, But oh good,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: Now my fear was this family heartbreaking? You know this family?
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: Well, how many times have you heard of cases like
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: that where a kid of a drug induced family you
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: know can't handle it there in jail, the kid ends
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: up being you know, fast from home, and finally a
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: family you know, sees the connection and raises a kid
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: and you know, goes through all the proper channels, finally
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: adopts a child, and ten years later the parents get
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: out of jail, even though they obviously have to sign
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: a release for the kid to be adopted. Now they
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: want to be back in the kid's life. How do
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: you how do you would you handle that?
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: Well? I've never experienced it that much. But if the parents'
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: rights are terminated, you can only have two parents, right, Yeah,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: So if if a if a husband will call them,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: if a husband wants to adopt the wife's son or child,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: you can. You cannot terminate a biological father's rights and
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: parental rights without someone stepping in his shoes, right. Okay,
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: So in your example, if I understood it correctly, you
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: have new adopted adoptive family. Right, So a mother and
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: father presumably a mother and father adopt the child. Now
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: the biological parents are no longer. They have no rights anymore,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: right as if they don't exist, your records are stealed,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: everything's gone. But when the child becomes an adult, then
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: they might choose to search out their biological father or
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: parents to answer some questions. So I guess it was.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: It was a long way to answer your question. I
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: don't think the original biological parents can come back into
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: their lives once they're terminated. They have no rights.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, interesting so.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: But but I don't have any experience in that area.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: And the example you gave I have not gotten that
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: far along. When I was practicing family law too, how did.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: You get this case being in workers' comp.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you how so well, I wasn't a workers
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: I was in Utah at the time, so I was
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: practiced family law. And Emily was just like, you know,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: you can practice on your own. It's no problem you
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: can do. Let's just do it. Do it on your own.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: So I went on my own, rented a little office,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: and she sent out a mailer like across the county
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: to every house. And these cases are coming in, and
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: this one came into adopt. I'm like have I've never
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: done this before. She goes, yeah, I can help you.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: I can do that, no problem. Because she worked in
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: family law in LA. She's like, I can help you
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: with that. I'm like okay. Then like the next week
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: she went and got a job. She worked for some
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: law firm. It's like, I can't help you anymore. But
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: it was all on my own. She never came to
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: court with me. Nothing never came. That was on my
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: own anyway. That was that was how that came. So
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: and then all these cases started coming in that were
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: family law cases, and I learned I don't law because
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: it's too emotional. It's it's necessary, and I praise those
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: that do it. It's an imperfect system. It can't be perfect.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: It's you know, you can't have a black and white
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: letter law that that's gonna be equal across the board.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: I know you. I'm sure you've experienced it, know enough
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: that it doesn't work like that. You know there's it's
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: it's so hard. It's a brown peg in a square hole, right,
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: or a square peg in a round hole. It's it's
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: just doesn't work.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: It's arguably one of the hardest types of lot of
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: practice is family law.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: No, I can't stand it. Yeah, it's just too heartbreaking.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: And I praise those that are able to do it
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: because it needs to be done.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know. The thing is it's so emotionally. You
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: get these people coming in your office just shouting out
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: all this stuff. He did this, he did he did this. Yeah,
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: that's great, that's not that's not a legal argument. That's
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: more of an emotional argument. I need little stuff, you know.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: Him sleeping with someone else doesn't matter, all right, crappy
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: as that is. It doesn't matter. He's still a dad,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: but that's not there or the other way around. I
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: don't want to save her a dime. Too bad. You
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: signed up for it. That's what you got to do.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and you have to do that to protect
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: the family because there are some legit situations for men,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: you know, they especially if they own their own business,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: suddenly they don't make any money. Right, How does that?
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, I can't. I tell you, I can't stand.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: I can't stand.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: I tell you, a dead beat dad is I can't,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: especially because I fall all the rules. I cannot stand that.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. See that would that would drive me nuts. One
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: of the things that my my father gave me the
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: option to go to law school, and I just couldn't
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: do it because there's this one part of law that
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: I just can't wrap my head around. I understand it,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: and and and and and I believe it's it's a necessity.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: But when you become an attorney and you have to
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: defend a criminal, or you have to defend somebody you
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: do know committed the crime, how do you know I've
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: never done get.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: Him out of it. It's a very valid thought. I've
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: never had done criminal defense. But I know one way
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: to look at it is so you have, you know,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: an obvious plea uh guilty, like oh, jay one, you
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: never have a client you don't want to know. But
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: if you know they did it, like let's say they yeah,
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: I did it, I get crap out of her right, Well,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: then what you're trying to do is not say that
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: the person's not that the person's innocent. You're trying to
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: make sure that they don't get any more of a
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: punishment than you think they're entitled to. So in a way,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: you're kind of controlling the system that way. It's not
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get this person off and out in
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: the world. And say it's innocent. It's let's see if
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: we can reduce the charges. Let's see if we can
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: get it with in reason. And so that's and again,
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: and how you have to look like, maybe you don't
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: agree with the death penalty, right right, you know, you're
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: going to try to pursue life in prison or some
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: lesser sentence and the death penalty. Negotiate that so you're
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: not you know, there's a big difference between not guilty
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: and as innocent as you didn't do it, not guilty.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: By law, you're not guilty. So if you look at
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: it that way, it might help.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: So what about those cases where they're wrongfully in farstrated,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: you know, And and it's going back to what we
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: were talking about family law. It's it's an imperfect system, right,
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: So when it comes down to it, the law is
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: not the law. It's not like black and white. There's
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: so many levels and moving parts, particularly with cases like
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: the O J case where he had money, he had connections,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: he had yeah, and there's a lot of that, and
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: there's always been a lot of that. You know, when
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: it comes to one of one of my biggest pet
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: peeves of law is you know, you try to sue
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: big Pharma. Well, they're going to win solely because they
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: have so much more money to outlaw you, right, or
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: outlaw lorrier youth.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: So yeah, absolutely, to make your life hell.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: And it's just so hard to win those cases, even
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: though they are responsible for what happened. So that's one
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: of the things that.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: Like a casino, they're always going to win because they
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: never run out of money. You will run out of money, yeah,
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: they will never playing and playing and playing until you quit.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: And that's how it is. In your example, big Farm,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: They'll they'll play all day long. Yeah, and they have
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: the means to the money too, and they're incentivized to
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: win much more.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: And and they'll just hire a law firm that has
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: one hundred lawyers that are going to work on this
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: one case.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah right.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: And it's not fair. It's not fair, especially when it
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: comes to discovery. I mean, you can get buried in
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: that stupid ship.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: But you know, it's a first comp It's such a
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: unique area of law procedurally that we've come across lawyers
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: that may do very well in their niche and are
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: very successful, and then they think that they're going to
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: try to help their brother in this work comp case,
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: and you know, you mop the floor with them because
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: they just don't know how it works. And so in
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: your example, Big if I were to try to suit
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: Big Pharma or anyone that doesn't have the experience, it's
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: not even a matter of money at that points, a
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: matter of knowing what you're doing. And they know all
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: all the tricks and the loopholes and things that you don't. Yeah,
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: and that's how it was with workers compleen, we get you.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: Oh I've done personal injury for it. Yeah, it's not
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: the same thing. You might be very you might do
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: very well in your area, but it's not the same thing.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: So you got a disadvantage already. And so that's the
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: example with you know, the deep pockets, right, they have
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: the experience.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: That was one of the actually, that was the main
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: reason why when I was running my dad's practice, we
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: made sure we focused on ho A law bankruptcy transaction
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: of foreclosures because it's a very niche industry that just
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: grew big time in California and across the nation, but
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: mostly in California. There's so many hoa's here it's ridiculous.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: But I made sure my dad wanted to dabble into
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: all kinds of other stuff. I had to reel him in, like, God,
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: Dad's get out of there. We're not doing family law,
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: we're not doing a state planning, and we're just doing
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: ho law. Yeah, and if we if we weren't great
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: at that, I don't think we would have been a
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: successful as we were because the firm did really great.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: You know. Really just have to find one thing and
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: excel in it, right.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree, it'd be really
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: really good at that one thing. Except when it comes
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: to medicine. I'm not a doctor or anything, but you know,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: I believe that a doctor should know how all the
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: body parts work together, you know, instead of sending you,
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: you know, to seven doctors for one ailment that just
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense absolutely.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: Or they should have a team maybe they collectively, right,
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: so they kind of work together, so it's like you
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: know what I'm I'm not a specialty. I'm not a
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: specialist the cardiovascular, but my partner right here is, and
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: then they can work together instead of it going to
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: another office and trying to find someone and yeah, you
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: should have one one stop shop, right you should?
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where you know, everybody's communicating and talking to each other.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: My other pet peeve with the pharmaceutical or the doctor
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: the healthcare industry is they'll put you on a drug
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: that's going to result one issue. Then that drug creates
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: other issues, so they have to put you on another
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: drug to fix that issue. So that's just perpetual.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: The classic example. The classic example is, uh, you know,
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: Emily gets a UTI right and my daughter both at
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: you time. They're like, here, take this antibiotic, but it
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: will cause a yeast infect so now take this. You know.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, yeah, yeah, it's just it's I don't know,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: I don't get it.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: I don't like it, but I don't get it. Anyways,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: I think that's it. I think we talked about being afraid.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: You know, I coming into this conversation, I didn't know
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: what I was going to really say. Because I thrive
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: on fear. I make it a point that if it
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: scares me, it's it's worth the pursuit or worth the fight.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: If it's not scary, it's kind of like, eh, I
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: don't really you know, I'm not that interested. And I
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: was really curious to see you what you thought where
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: your stance on fear is because I know this generation
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: nowadays are very sensitive and you know, the men today,
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: you know, they're okay with crying in front of people,
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: and I just don't see that. I don't see that
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: as as as what it takes to be a man.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: For example, you're in a situation, a precarious situation with
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: your family, and it doesn't make sense to me that
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: the woman has to step up and take care of
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: the family when the man should be standing up for
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: his family and not being afraid of anything, right. So
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: it just it spins my head to imagine or even
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: witness a man standing behind his woman while the woman
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: is taking charge and you know, making shit happen. You know,
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: for whatever reason that is.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: I would agree with you on that, and maybe that's
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: a pride thing, but I try to I try to
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: be the leader in the family right and take take
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: things on myself to try to be a that way.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: But you know, one thing I got out of this podcast,
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: that's for sure, is to try to face my fears
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: more so rather than just like you know, like the
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: plane example, not just going on a plane and trying
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: to be okay with it and thinking I shouldn't be scared,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: but actually kind of lean into it like you did
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: with your fears. Yeah, so you know, I'm gonna that
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: next fear I have that I come across, I think
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: I'll try to take it on as a challenge to
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: overcome it and maybe kind of fine tune it and
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: and uh, you know, be superior that way.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: Well, give me, give me, give me a shout out
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: on that. I want to hear how you did that.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: I'm really curious because it's it's worked for me for
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: a long time. But like I said, what what I
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: hate seeing is when people don't live their life because
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: they're afraid. You know, they're afraid, especially the people that
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: think about all the worst possible things that can happen
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: in this one scenario. And my wife is one of them.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: She thinks the worst case scenario about everything. Simple. Let's
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: go on a road trip, okay, where we're gonna suffer gas,
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: we're gonna eat, where we're gonna stay. How much time
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: are we going to take? You know, are we there yet? Like,
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: oh god, it's crazy And I'll never forget this one
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: trip we took. It was at the end of the year.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: It was a tough year. We were done filming and everything,
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: and it was between Christmas and New Year's Eve, and
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: I said, listen, I'm done with schedules. I'm done with calendars.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: I'm done with you know, you know, doing my life
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: on a schedule. Let's just get an RB and hit
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: the road. And sure enough, day later, I rented a
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: little Mercedes RBS that pop outs and everything, and I said, okay,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: just grab a few clothes. We're just going to drive.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: And I don't know where we're going. We're just going
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: to drive.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: Not knowing where you're going, right, yeah.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And she was totally gun ho on board, and
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: it blew my mind that she was. So I said,
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: all right, let's go, got a few pieces together, jumped
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: in the car, and just started driving north with the
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: goal to get to I think Yosemite was one of
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: my goals. As we're driving, we get in I think
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: it was Ventura County, and we both realized we didn't
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: bring any food.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: We exited the freeway.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: Ten miles in we got to find a grocery store
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: and we're in there walking around buying groceries. And this
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: is like way out in the middle of nowhere, right,
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: and the people, of course are recognized or they recognized me,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: and they're like, what the hell are you doing now here?
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: Like we're just getting groceries. So we jumped back in
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: the car back on the freeway, and as we're driving,
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: I'm realizing, oh shit, it's winter. There's going to be
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: a bunch of snow in the mountains. So we can't
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: go to the snow. So where we going I don't know,
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: but we're running out of time and we need to
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: find a place to go, you know, part the RB
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: for the night. So we end up in this gas
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: station and we're trying to figure out we can go
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: to a camping army ground or we can go to
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: this little wow.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: You literally didn't plan anything, you just got anything.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: It was it was so much fun. I can't tell
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: you how much fun that trip was, because yeah, yeah,
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: whatever whatever came to us, we did. And I can't
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: remember the last time, well the last time I did that.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: My dad gave me a book written by Jack Cua.
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: I think it's called On the Road. I don't know
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: if you read it. It's a book about a kid
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: that just you know, got on the road and just
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: took the adventure and whatever came came you know, it
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: was a great book, and I think it was because
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: of that book that I wanted to do this trip
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: because all the rest of our lives is on schedules
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: and organized, and if it's not, it's chaos. Right, if
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: your life is not organized, it's freaking chaos. So I
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: just didn't want any of that at that time. And
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: we had such a blast. We ended up going all
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: the way to Napa Valley, and of course when we
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: get there, we didn't realize it's winter, so all the
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: all the vineyards are closed except for one. But we
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: were looking for a vineyard and you know, we couldn't
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: find when that was open, Like why are we here?
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, you I'm certain you experienced things that
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't have had you planned.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was almost like freedom, you know,
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: because when you're on a schedule, even though you know
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: you have to be on a schedule an organized to
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: make life successful and accomplishable, it felt like I was free.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: When you have a plan, you're you must do this,
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: you must do that, or you're supposed to check in
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: at a certain time. But here you are, you know,
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: you were free to do as.
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: You wish for you to do as I wish, and
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: I love that. You know. I have had friends where
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: we've traveled and they have this whole agenda. I'm like, dude,
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: I am not doing any of that on vacation, Okay,
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: I just relaxing.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're all when I get home. Right now, right now,
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: I'm just gone with the flow.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: There's there's really something to say for that.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: I do commend those, and I experienced that a little
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: bit in Utah. I don't have him any stories, but
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: people who literally just like, now I'm just gonna go
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: on the mountains for a week or two, yeah, you know, literally,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: and I'll find food. Literally. I know a guy he
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: was he loved it. He's like, I ate snake. Yeah,
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: it was just it was just hunting. And he lived
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: out there for two weeks and he just like he
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: said it was the best thing. I never really dug into.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: I wish I did, but yeah, gone already know who
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: is anymore. But he he said the snake was the
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: best thing here, probably because he captured it and he
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: did it himself and it was really you know, and
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: maybe he was hungry for it, you.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: Know, really hungry, right like he you know.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: He experienced things that he wouldn't have otherwise, and to
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: be able to do that without any I mean that's yeah.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: I wish I could live a life like that sometimes.
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean you can start little by little.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to go get a camper tomorrow. Yeah,
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: just you know, Emily, he's going to get in it
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: and we'll go to the beach food.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: Go to the beach right here and send say Clamenty.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: You know, there's always I used to ride my bike
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: there a lot, and I used to see people camp
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: there all the time.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: It's a good start, yeah, yeah, just.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: It could be fun and then expand because that's one
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: of my goals to get on my Harley and go
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: across the nation one day. You know, I have to
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: find the right people to teach me and be part
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: of because I don't have the balls yet to just
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: jump on it and go by myself. I thought about it.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: I literally thought, I'm just going to jump on my
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: bike one day and go. But I got a wife,
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: I got kids, now, I got a damned dog.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: I got to do that.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: But I think that would be such a fun, fun
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: adventures just to be.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: I had a friend that did that from Northern California
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: all the way down to the south of Chile on
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: a bike.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: And I followed him through Facebook and it was literally
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: just stamp wherever he would share stories of people he met,
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: and he just improvised all the way down and then
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: he unloaded his bike, you know, sold there whatever, it
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: blew back up and that was a couple of months.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so cool.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: That's you next next.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: All right, on that note, thank you so much Shane
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: for coming on. And it's been a real pleasure, always
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: fun talking with you. And that's it.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: That's the show. Yeah, well, thank you for writing me
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: and inspiring me on facing my fear.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: So guys, don't forget go listen to Legally Brunette if
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: you're into understanding the law and you know, figuring out
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: what you can learn. I'm always about learning, you know.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: So some kind of high profile celebrity type cases.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be fun to listen to.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: Very good. Well, thank you Eddie.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, guys, thank you so much for listening. That's the
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: wrap and we will see you or hear you at
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: the next one.