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Internet Hate Machine with Bridget Todd · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: never told your production of I Heart Radio, and today
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: we are once again to thrilled to be joined by
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the magnificent, wonderful bridget Todd. Thank you so much for
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: being here. Bridget Oh, I'm so excited and honored. Every
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: time I come, I feel like you all give me
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the best intros. I just want to run you doing
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: that introduction in my earbuds all the time when I'm
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: having a bed day. Exactly well deserved. Yeah, because you
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: as always have a lot going on, and I'm very
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: very excited about what we're talking about today and about
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the work you're doing around it, because, as we'll shout
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: out at the end, you are working on a new
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: podcast that is coming out soon. Correct, that is right
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: by the time folks here this it will be out. Um. Yeah,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: it's it's a it's exciting. It's not the cheeriest topic,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: but very important. But yes, new podcast coming soon. Yes, Yes,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: And I love the topic you brought because it's such
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: it exemplifies so much why this new podcast, which is
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: called Internet Hate Machine name, thank you. I have to
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: you can see how out of practice I am for
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: doing promo. I didn't even say the name of a podcast. Yes,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Internet Hate Machine. I wish I could take credit for
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: that title, but it is a production of Sophie and
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Robert Evans over at cool Zone Media, who are my
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: partners in this, and they're phenomenal. And when I was
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: like going off the rails on on how I'm like,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: we should be talking about the Internet and blah blah blah,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Robert Evans is like, it's a real Internet Hate Machine
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god. Perfect. So it
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: was given us like nine inch nails vibes, all of that. Yes,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I wish I could take credit for that title, but
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: it's all them. Yeah. Yeah, it's excellent and very well needed.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: And I think that good points will be throughout this
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: episode of why it is so needed. And also before
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: we just dive into it, we like to check in
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: with you. How are you doing? We got some cat
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: updates which were great before we start recording, which is like,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: how are you bridget Oh, I appreciate being asked. I'm good.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: I am. This is a weird a weird time because
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: we're just a few days out from the mid term
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: elections and so I'm working in my capacity with the genders,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: this group Ultraviolet on mid term election stuff, which is
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: been a lot, I guess, but yeah, it's it's things
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: are good, busy, happy, How how are you too? I'm
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: always like, oh, I think I'm I'm okay, I'm good.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I'm nervous about the mid term elections, which I know
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a lot. I love Halloween,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: so I'm trying to get into Halloween. But I feel
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: like I've been so busy in October that I kind
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: of missed all of the stuff I normally do. So
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: now I'm trying to cram it in really quickly, and
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I don't like that feeling like I think it'll work
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: out fine, it'll be great, um, but I don't like
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: this all of a sudden, like, oh my gosh, I
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: haven't done all of my traditional Halloween things. Uh. So
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: I guess stressed, which is normally an answer I would give.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Stress and tired is about where I am, but trying
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: to make the best of it. Yeah see, I'm trying
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: to see. These are the type of questions when you're like,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: do I am I honest? Or do I just try
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: to get past? If you feel comfortable it's whenever I
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: ask how are you, I don't want you to be
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: like fine and move on. I want the real answer
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: if you're giving it, Oh yeah, absolutely, you know, like
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: when it comes to holidays, and even though I think
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: we talked about this recently, Annie, in which I'm like,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I do like Halloween. I really do like the idea
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: of it, in a spoon it of it. But when
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: it comes to holidays and the holidays as is approaching,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I go into anxiety overload, slash uh, a little bit
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: of holiday seasonal depression. All of that just adds in.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: So a part of me right now is like heart
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: is racing and trying to think of how to answer
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: this question and not breathe the entire showdown, as well
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: as the fact I know that everything is okay, everything
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: is okay, but just prepping, like and you're as you
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about there's so much going on
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: in in society and there's so much on the line,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: and it has been and I feel like, you know,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: when we talk about the seventies and the nineties and
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: how the New Revelation Lucians and all of the changes
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: and feminism in itself had taken turns like big things
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: had happened to make you feel like, Oh God, is
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: the end of the world. And if this doesn't go
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: this way, we're all you know what I mean. So
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like in this moment of like, Okay,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: we need to fix it. So what do I do
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: to fix it? Oh, I can't do anything. I quit.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to bed. Let's go to that level.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: So that's where I am. That is the worst answer
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: to give, And I'm sorry because I completely feel you.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: First of all, I don't know if I've said this
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: on the show. I hate the holidays. I like Halloween.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I feel like Halloween is I enjoy Halloween. I look
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: forward to Halloween all of the other holidays that come after.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh god, we'll be doing this. It's just
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: so much obligation and so much work, and everyone is stressed.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: And I feel like, pretty much universally, everybody would rather
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: just like not do it every every year, and like,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: wouldn't it be what if we all just agreed to
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: like skip this here. I definitely definitely feel you. Oh.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: I do have to ask are you dressing up for Halloween?
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask the both of you, I
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: am dressing up the costume that I have. It's a
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: little bit niche Have either of you seen the nineties
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: remake of Romeo and Juliet with the Boss Lehmann remake? Yes?
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Do you remember Romeo's and I think it's his cousin
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Marcrucio who has So do you remember the scene when
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: they go to a costume party and they all dressed
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: up and Marcrucio is like a seventies like disco queen
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: and there's like a little montage where he sings and
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: dances to the song Young Hearts Run Free. So I'm
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: going I love costume within a costume, So I am
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: going as Marcrucio from that specific scene. Oh, we're talking
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: about the Leonardo DiCaprio of course. Okay, okay, okay, yes,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I have seen it. Silly man, I feel like I
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: don't know what's going on. I've seen something like this.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Samantha hasn't look look this has happened to me. So
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: future reference like cool Zone media. I was on Behind
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: the Bastard and they kept naming off these cool movies
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: that I'm supposed to I'm like, no, I've never seen that. No,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I've never seen that. I'm like, this is bad, nothing,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: very out of touch. I'm not surprised, but I have
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: seen this one. Yeah, but that's at an amazing costume
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: and I'm so excited to see the pictures. Yeah, what
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: are what are you too going as you're dressing up? Yeah?
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I love dressing up. I love a costume. I probably
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: during the pandemic more more costumes and like quote real clothes.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I love it. I do have a if you haven't
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: seen it on Instagram, I have a disco Luke Skywalker
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: outfit that is phenomenal and it is like a costume
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: within a costume. It's very very niche, but very beautiful.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: I think so I might do that, but that's kind
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: of a whole thing. Like if I show up in that,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I'm like elevating things and I'm just I'm going to
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: say it, I'm elevating things. So I also have a
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: bunch of Luke Skywalker costumes I could do, and I
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: want to do my one. But I also got a
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Taylor Swift outfit, so I might do that one. Who
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: knows Taylor Swift, like Luke Skywalker, Taylor Swift or just
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Taylor Swift. I could combine them your I actually did
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: think about it. I did think about it because that
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: is a popular fan fiction trope, so I could do it.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: But we'll see. Well, I I'm gonna make like a
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: game day decision. I think I'm feeling and I just
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: went to a Stranger Things thing and I went and
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I killed it. This guy came up to me and
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: he was like, I mean, I'm sure he's paid to
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: say it, but he was like, nice haties outfit. You
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: hate to say it. That's what he worked there, he works,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: so I'm sure he was probably like compliment people I
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: say came in costumes. They're good, They're pretty good. Thank you. Yeah,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: because you had a whole crew, your original Delonaga friends
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: and then Ramsey, the executive producer friend Ramsey, y'all all
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: dressed up was Ray. Ramsey did like the classic eighties
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: band T shirt, jean jacket, and like he had really
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: good eighties shoes because that's what I struggled the most
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: with with the shoes. But yeah, I'm glad because I
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: was going to wear an A C. D C shirt
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: and I thought Ramsey is going to do the band
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: the eighties ban shirts. I won't do it. And he
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: did anyway. Yeah, y'all all look good several Like I
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: was like, they're already ahead of the game, looking like
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: they're from the eighties and loved it. Yeah I am again.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: This is one of those things that I'm like, oh
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: my god, because I don't do well with costumes, so
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I just give in and buy the Target onesies. That
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: is some kind of animals, so I can be both
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: warm and lazy. So, uh, we have a friend who
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: was doing a ghost ship themed party, So I am
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: going to dress up as a shark and I'm hoping
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: that my partner will dress up as a dead uh
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: like cruise ship person that I've been eating on. I
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: love that there's a story. Yeah right, that's the best way.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'll tell you about how good dark costume.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Even though it's not, I love it. I think that's great. Yeah,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: a costume with a backstory of like, well, I'm feasting
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: on this person. You see love in my cute little
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Target onesie. It's fine. I think that's warm. I hope. Yes,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping to see pictures of all of these things.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I love Halloween, but one thing that does always come
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: with Halloween, like every couple of years. Is this tension
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: around voting? Is this tension that the elections are coming up?
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: So it's always like I'm trying to not think about it. Um,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: is there anything spook here? Yes? Yes, And as we've
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: hinted at, that's what we're going to be talking about
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: a lot in here. Um and uh, Georgia, it's been
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: an intense mid term election for us. So yeah, yeah,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I guess let's just let's just break down some of
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: the things that are going on in these mid terms. Yes,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: so we're as when we're recording this. I don't know
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: how long it will be out when folks here it,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: but um, we are ten days out from the election
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: while we're recording this. And I mean, I it sounds
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: like you kind of feel like I do, where particularly
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: around mid terms, it just makes me queazy because I
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: know that GEO TV is so different when it's not
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: a presidential election, Like people, it's harder to get people excited,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: and especially when I know there's so much on the line.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned Georgia, that's an important race. A
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: lot is happening, a lot it's hinging on people actually
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: coming out, and so it's something that I just always
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: feel kind of like queezy about it. And for me,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I always kind of having worked in politics for most
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: of my adult life or like politics adjacent, I always
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: kind of feel me about elections because I'm not super
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: invested in electoral power, like I think that there's other
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: ways to build power. And then around like ten days out,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, I need to like start tootving,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: I need to start like calling everyone. And it's like
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: it's like something happens, and so I'm sort of waiting
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: for that transformation to happen. And it sounds like you
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: two are feelings sort of similarly around the elections this
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: time around. Yeah. So for me, I uh recently was
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: coming home from a trip with my mother and she
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: drove me past where I vote, my polling place, and
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: it was the first day of early voting in Georgia
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: and it was packed out, Like I was like, oh
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: my god, what is happening? And then I looked it
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: up an early voting was happening, and I was so
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: it's very heartening to see that many people turn out
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: for a midterm. And I waited a couple of day
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: and when I went back, it was still crowded. And
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: people were excited, there were people filming. Everyone was really
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: warm and nice, like, oh, I'm so glad you came
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: out to vote, which was it was a pleasant experience
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: for me, but it was kind of like overshadowed the
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: whole thing. Was you know, there has been these crackdowns
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: on voting rights and why are so many people coming
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: out so early? Which I think is great, but it
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: was just kind of overhanging the whole thing. And also
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: because it is a very divisive race, senatorial race specifically
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: in Georgia. I don't know, it was it was one
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: of those things where I was like, I've I've been
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: to mid terms before, like nobody was there and I
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: walked past that area all the time, and so I
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: see it and I would never see a line, And
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: now like every day when I walk past it, there's
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: a line. So that's nice, but I'm still like, there,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: you just can't shake all of the kind of negative
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: things that might be behind why that is, even though
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: I'm happy to see it, if that makes sense, right absolutely,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Like as right now, we have the highest early voter
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: turnout in our state that we've ever had, beating last
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: presidential election. So it's amazing to see that things are happening,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: and we know that that's great indication of things to come. Again. Yes,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: we have had a huge upsurge in UM voter suppression
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: laws in the last five years. Actually has always been
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: let's just be honest, but it's seemingly getting worse and worse,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: and we know, uh, the way they have redistricted everything,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: and it's very very shady. Although you know, our current
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: governor was the secretary of state who controlled his own election,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: which says a lot in itself, UM, And that's a
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: big point of contention here, as well as the fact
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: that apparently uh Rafflesburger, that's our current secretary of State UM,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: who actually stood up to Trump at one point in
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: time and got too much credit in my opinion, UM
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: for what he did. But it's hired for staffer of
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Trump for these elections. So there's a lot of questionable
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: things happening. So we have a lot of concerns and
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of hope. Is such a mixed bag, as
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Annie was saying, of what is happening here, we're seeing
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: what's happening because the governor's race is a pretty big deal,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: as the overturning of Roe v. Wade hasn't made it
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: a huge deal, as we do have a six week
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: ban in um Georgia currently, and then there's just talk
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: about the fact that they're going to punish um those
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: who do have abortions as uh, murder, possibly charging them
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: with murder, with the fact that they're doing this whole
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: like you know, unborn fetis law and protecting of them
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: as as like crediting them as a citizen type of
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: conversation which we know is trickery and is leading way
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to a lot of imprisonment and unfair treatment. And we
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: know this is completely targeted at marginalized individuals in our state.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of concerns there, so much that
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: feels like it's being really weighty here right now, and
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: it does. It feels like it is life or death
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: for so many of us. And I'll get I'm being
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: very local on this moment because this is kind of
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: where we are, and Annie and I obviously have to
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: concentrate so hard in these conversations. So there is this
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: level of doom, which I'm wonderful at conversation bringing up
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: all the time. Apparently there's this fear and level of
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: doom in this election that feels too heavy. At the
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: same time, we are the butt of jokes with our
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: current senator race, and it's it's it's really like you
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: want you you have to laugh, but want to cry,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: as well as why why just but why? Yeah? Oh
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: my gosh. I if you got if you all get
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: me started on a hurt for Walker, I will never
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I will never stop talking. Um, So I'm not going
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to comment on that. Boy I want to, but truly,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: if you got me going, I would never stop. I
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: will just say that all of that is really valid.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: You know. I think this feeling of it's great to
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: see people voting, but that like unease of life, but
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: what does that mean for everyone? I think that's really valid.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: And just the feeling of knowing how much is on
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: the line, what is at stake this time around. I
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: think that that's I hate to say it, I think
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: as our elections become more and more contentious, and as
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: things become more and more polarized, I think that's going
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: to be a common sentiment. And you know, something that
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: kind of speaks to that is the fact that there
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: are more women running for statewide offices than ever before,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: which you know, I think is should be good news.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Marks a record high for women running for gubernatorial and
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: senate races. UM. There's about sixty five women running for
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: governors races across the country in the cycle. UM. I
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: should say it is not all lefties. UM. There are
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: more Republicans than Democrats making those bids. This is all
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: according to data from the Center for American Women in Politics,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: and I it's true. It's like I when there are
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: long lines at polling places, I'm like, oh, that's great,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: like democracy and action. And that's definitely preferable to people
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: having elections not go their way and then trying to
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: force them to go their way via violent behavior like
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: we saw on January sits and so things feel charged.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I guess I'll put it that way. And women are
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: poised to make gains in state white contests, but they
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: remain underrepresented in key legislatures around the country. And it's
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: also true for black women. We're seeing more black women
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: and more women of color running for local office. Black
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: women have set record numbers for candidates and cubernatorial, Senate
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: and House races. It's the cycle, UM. And there's a
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: lot of Latina and Hispanic cubernatorial and US House Senate candidates,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: and a record number of Asian and Pacific Islander women
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: who are running for governor, and so I as fraught
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: as that can be, I think it's overall good, you know,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: not just because representation matters, which it does, but also
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I think that anything that gets us closer to a
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: presentative democracy, one where there's people who actually have the
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: lived experience of the people that they are governing, is
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: a good thing. And so like that's one kind of
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: silver lining I guess is that particularly when I think
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: about issues like abortion like you were talking about, Sam,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: I don't have any hard numbers for this, I would
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: suspect that women are motivated to run for office because
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: those issues have taken such a national stage recently. I
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: wish I could say that it's all women who you know,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: want to protect abortion access. I wish I could say
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: that if you were a woman, that was part of
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: your platform, but that would not be correct. Yeah, and
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: that's one thing that is very overwhelming right now in Georgia,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and I'm sure in a lot of places, but are
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: political ads are intense um and hard to escape. But yeah,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: so it's it's kind of like what I was saying.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: We have these positives. We have more women running, we
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: have more people of color running, we have more Black
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: women running. But that doesn't come without these realities that
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: you have spoke about a lot on this show that
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: often get kind of swept aside and not talked about,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: even though they're so important and they are impacting our
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: political landscape exactly. And so I think it is so
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: great when we support women, especially black women and women
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: of color, to run for office, and it just generally
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: be involved in civic life through things like working as
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: election workers or becoming vocal advocates or activists on an issue.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: But it is imperative that that support be grounded in
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: the reality of what we know these women will face
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: when they find themselves in those situations that we, you know,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: championed them to to hold. Right, so we are on
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the left, we're very fond of saying things like trust
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: black women, support black women. That is very true. But
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: we can't just you know, advocate for black women to
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: get into these positions. We have to be honest about
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: what they will face when they get there, and then
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: really do the intentional work of creating the conditions for
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: them to have an equal playing field to make sure
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: that they will thrive in those positions, because it's one
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: thing to be like, oh, yes, put black women in
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: leadership positions, but then are you going to support them
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: when they face the attacks that we know they are
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: going to face? You know, for instance, I was super
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: excited when President Biden said that he was going to
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: pick black women to be the vice president um and
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: also nominated black women to be a Supreme Court justice.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: But I also know that that means that those black
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: women would certainly face heightened attacks that their white male
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: counterparts just would not have to face. And so I
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: was then a little bit disappointed to see that the
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: White House didn't really meaningfully deal with this reality, right,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Like I wondered, like, are they setting black women up
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: to deal with the harassment and attack acts that we
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: know are going to be like racialized and gendered, not
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: attacks based on their records or their merits or their actions,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: but attacks on their identity who they are. So when
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: these attacks happened, which we saw with both Harris and
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Justice Jackson, the White House didn't really acknowledge them. And
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: of course the women themselves can't really talk openly about them.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: So we all just kind of saw it happened, and
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: nobody was at the very least talking honestly about it,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: let alone working to create the conditions to combat it, right,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: And that's just such a huge saying of you know,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: either it's a drade on you because you're having to
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: deal with these attacks, or you just kind of distance
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: yourself from social media. And then that in itself people
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: can interpret in a variety of ways that are probably
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: not good. Um. And then people's especially younger people, seeing
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: that like that. There's just so many unhealthy things about
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: what that says. Um that we're accepting um as as
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: something that's just like part for the course. That's how
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: it is. And the very unfortunate thing is this is
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: not just like one time or just a few times.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: It's like all over the place, exactly. It's not an
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: isolated thing, I'm sorry to say. According to a report
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: from the Institute for Strategic Dialogue called Public Figures of
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Public Rage, candidates abuse on social media. Satistically speaking, black
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: women and women of color are more likely to face
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: racialize gender to tacks than their white male counterparts. On
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: The study, which you can find online is super interesting.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: They found the abusive messages on social media accounted for
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: fift of those directed at every female lawmaker that they analyze,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: compared to around five to ten percent when they looked
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: at male candidates. A few of their keep findings or
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: that women of color are particularly likely to be targeted online.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Male politicians of color are not more vulnerable than their
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: white counterparts. They are attacked at the same rate. An
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: abuse towards women was more likely to be about gender
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: than the abuse tar targeting men, So abuse targeting men
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: was usually focused on their political stances um while the
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: messages directed that women were more likely to be about
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: their appearance or their general competence. Interestingly enough, female democrats
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: received ten times more abusive comments and their male counterparts
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: on Facebook, and Republican women received twice as many abusive
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: messages as Republican men. So it's a bipartisan issue. It's
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: an issue impacting all women and women of color. You know,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: it's not just women on the left who face it.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: It's all of us, right. And one of the things
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: one of the points you make when you come on
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: here all the time, which I think is very important
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: and I love, um, is that a lot of times
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: people can distance like, oh, that's online, that's not real life. Um,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: but that is not at all the case, right. Yes,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: So I'm sure people are like sick of me saying
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: this because I've you know, say it's pretty from my
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: rooftops every time I'm I am given a platform. But
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I think we have this misconception that when we talk
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: about online harassment and abuse, we're talking about online shoes.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: And the research could not be clearer that even though
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: these attacks may start online, they do not always stay online.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: And a great example that we're seeing right now is
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: representative Jaia Paul, a man started by sending her violent
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: emails and threatening messages online, showed up as side of
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: her house with a gun. I just had to take
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: a minute from recording this podcast to quick send on
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: a statement about the husband of Nancy Pelosi, someone who
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: had a just today while we're recording this, someone with
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: a history of violent you know, rhetoric on social media,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: broke into Nancy Pelosi's house and attacked her husband with
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: a hammer when he found that she was not there.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: And so it's so important and deeply imperative that if
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: we're going to take this kind of violence seriously that
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: when someone reports violent threats or violent attacks online, we
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: then take it seriously if we're going to prevent real
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: world violence from happening, because the two our link. It's
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: just that the research could not be clear time and
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: time again. When somebody is the perpetrator of a mass
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: shooting or an incident of mass violence, you follow the
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: paper trail and oh, they had an online history where
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: they were threatening women or being aggressive or hostile towards
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: the women in their life online. And so we cannot
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: get a handle meaningfully on the abuse of women if
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: we do not take it seriously when it happens online,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: it's just not going to happen. And so real world
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: violence is connected to online violence and we need to
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: deal with it as such. But unfortunately that has not
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: been the case for so long. People have been so
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: quick to belittle it when a woman speaks off about
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: what she's facing online, particularly if that woman is black
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: or a woman of color. We've talked about so much
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: harassment and and I know, one of the biggest platforms
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: and I know we're gonna talk about this later and
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I'm already a dressing it. Twitter has been one of
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the bigest perpetrators in allowing this type of abuse and
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: not actually following through in the policies they've they've already
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: placed themselves to try to supposedly stop these types of harassments,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: and then knowing that there's even ways to actually find
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: specific people to target, like when you were talking about
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: the bots and then just having uh, pretty much hate
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: farms created on these types of platforms. I can't imagine
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: what it does too. Yeah, it's happening to those who
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: are on higher profile levels. I guess it's the best
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: way to say it. But to be fair, like I
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: am petrified as someone who kind of it's it's supposed
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: to be. I don't know the world not influencing. I
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: don't know what a public person. We'll say this, We'll
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: say public person. My name is out there, like I'm
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: petrified with my five followers, and I'm going to say
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: something wrong and or they're gonna hear someone's gonna hear
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: something that we do take it and say that means
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: we can go after her, and wondering what that would
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: be like because I've seen normal people, regular people getting
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: attacked like all they said was this one thing and
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: or just agreed with something and people are going after them.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I mean absolutely. And we're also I
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: would be remiss to not mention that we're having this
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: conversation on day one of Elon Musk at the helm
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: at Twitter, and people keep asking like, oh, what do
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: you think about that? What do you think about that?
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: And I can tell you that the people who are extremists,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: bad actors, people who are interested in, you know, perpetrating
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: these the kinds of harassment campaigns that you were just
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: talking about, Sam, those people are rejoicing right Like just today,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I already saw a bunch of tweets where someone was like,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna use the end slor as many times as
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: I can because it's okay now on Twitter. These are
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: the kind of people that Elon Musk is welcoming back
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: to the platform. These are the kind of people who
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: are rejoicing because Elon Musk is at the helm of
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: our one of our largest and most important communications platforms.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: And so you're exactly right that I think we started
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: this conversation talking about elected officials people running for office.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: More and more we are seeing that trickle down to
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: just regular people. And I want to be clear, So
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: it is it is. We have seen this kind of
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: online behavior keep marginalized people from doing things like running
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: for office, but also from doing things like just serving
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: their community as election officials are poll workers from speaking
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: up about their opinions at school board meetings. Because all
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: people who just generally engage in public civic life, they
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: know that in this climate, they are setting themselves up
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: to be attacked. And we're not talking about people like
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: it's bad enough that that's happening to women running for office,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: but when it's happening to people who are just you know,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: everyday people. It's not like they have a security detail.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: It's not like they have money to protect themselves in
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the way they would need to. And just a few
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: examples that we're seeing recently, educators are being attacked by
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: extremists for being suspected of being LGBTQ or for teaching
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: something that these people do not like um and these
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: campaigns have been incredibly effective. One of them happened right
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: in Georgia. Cecily A Lewis. She's a Georgia educator who
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: was basically run out of town by a group of
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: parents organizing on Facebook because they suspected her of she
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: had not even gotten the job yet, and they already
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: suspected her of planning to teach critical race theory. Never
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: mind the fact that she wasn't that that's just complete conjecture. Uh.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: It just happened to be that she is a black woman,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: and so they were able to say, like, oh, she's
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: gonna teach her kids critical race theory, even though she
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: wasn't even an in classroom teacher. She was just an administrator, right,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: And so she had to leave town. And when she
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: left town, these people followed her to the next town
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: that she went to and ran her out of that
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: town too. And so these campaigns are incredibly effective. And
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: another good example is looking at election workers, eight percent
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: of whom are women. Election workers are being basically attacked
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: and accused of things like vote tampering if elections don't
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: go the way that these extremists want them to. And
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: again another example from Georgia is if you watched the
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: January six Comman and you might have seen the story
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: of Ruby and Shafe Freeman. That story broke my heart.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: A black mother and her daughter with a long storied
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: history of serving their community as election and poll workers,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: like the black women in your town, who if you
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: have any questions about voting, and they got you. If
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: you need help voting, they got you. Like people who
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: are called to serve their community and have been for
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: a very long time. Well, the thanks they got for
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: that was being horribly attacked. When Trump lost Georgia in
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: the election, he and Rudy Giuliani and his other cronies baselessly,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: repeatedly and publicly accused these women of vote hampering. They
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: had videos of them where they said that they were
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: moving votes, which never happened. Um. And this led to
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: really terrible, frightening attacks on them where people showed up
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: at their home and the home of their elderly grandmother
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: and they had to flee for their own safety. And again,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: these are regular people, not people that have a security
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: detail or people that maybe have the money to scrub
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: their personal information from the Internet the way that you
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: would need to if you were facing these kinds of attacks. Yeah.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Actually I had volunteered one time to be a just
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: to oversee as people are lining up, make sure everything
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: is okay. Nothing nothing, I don't I don't talk to anybody.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I just make sure everybody's has the right to vote.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Almost being harassed all these things. That's all I did.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: But the entire group of people who were actually volunteering,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: handing out the pencils, giving instructions, checking I das and
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: such were all black women, every single one of them.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: And just this last voting when I did my whole
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: uh recinct was all black, but was sweet due. They
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: were so great and we had the forty five minute
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: line and they were so on top of it trying
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: to make sure to get everybody through seamlessly, and they
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: did a beautiful job. And they were there like this
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: was the I think the fifth day of the week
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: that they were doing this, and they'd been there and
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: they were not complaining, they were smiling, making conversation, and
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: it's like people like them who are making this happen
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: and going on so well and so perfectly, as if
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: there's nothing happening. Literally, the line was smoothly going and
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I loved everything about that. And I cannot imagine just
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: because they're there, they exist, and they decided to help
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: their community, they're going to be targeted and being yelled at,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: and honestly, um, I know those conversations of people really
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: being scared about being physically harmed because people are pushing
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: and trying to do so many intimidation tactics to accuse
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: and blame somebody for the loss of a bully. Yeah,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: this is just my opinion. Black women are the backbone
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: of our democracy. They are like older black woman from
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: the South. They are the grease of the wheels of
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: dermal Like I feel like when I go into a
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: place like that and I'm like, oh, of course there's
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: like hell of black women with clipboards in here like that,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: like that's the vibe. And you know, and we know
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: that eight percent of election workers and poll workers are women.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: I would be be willing to bet at a bunch
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: of those are black women, especially in the South. And
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I think that what we're really doing, it's allowing for
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: people who are the most marginalized in our society. We
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: are allowing for them to put themselves out there to
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: support our communities and our democracy in these ways for
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: not a lot of money. But mind you, because a
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: lot of these women are volunteers, are very low paid,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: and we're saying you also need to absorb these attacks
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: to do so, and we're basically setting these women up
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: to be attacked and giving them no and not even
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: really talking about it when they are right, and so
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's my experience with voting has been the
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: exact same that these are the women who are at
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: this point, I would say, risking a lot to make
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: sure that our democratic process is able to take place.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: And honestly, this is probably not surprising to anybody, because
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: these kinds of attacks are meant exactly to keep those
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: kinds of people from doing what they do. It is
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: meant to keep them from doing their work of keeping
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: the wheels of democracy going. It is meant to keep
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: them from being engaged in civic life, because who would
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: want to sort of their community by working as a
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: poll worker or running for off is if it means
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: that them and their families are going to be facing
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: these kinds of attacks. So, probably not surprising to anybody
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: that here we are ten days out from an election
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: and the United States is facing a national shortage on
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: poll workers. Kim Wyman, who is the senior Election security
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: lead at the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency or the
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: c I s A, said that because of a rise
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: in threats against election workers, one in three election workers
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: and poll workers have quit their positions over fears for
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: their safety, and state officials are having a hard time
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: hiring folks for these positions because again, who would want
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: to do these like low paid duties. It means like, oh, you,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: you and your family might have to flee for your safety.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: This is because you wanted to do this position helping
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: your community in this way. I can understand why people
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: are not lining up to do this work. But you
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: can see how big those consequences are for our democracy
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: and for all of us when we can't even get
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: people to do enact the labor that needs to happen
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: for our democratic process to exist. Yeah. Um, And as
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: you've mentioned, like we've arrived at not a great space
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: in our democracy, but we've had a long history, Like
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: we had plenty of signs of of where we could
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: have listened to, especially black women, and we didn't. And
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: this is where we are. So can you expand on
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: that a little bit? Yes, I believe that this entire thing,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: all of these fats to our democracy, is really connected
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: and goes back to not listening to black women because
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I talked about the fact that you know, these threats
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: that start online become real role threats. Black women have
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: been saying this for a very long time, and I
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: feel that nobody has really listened. You know, some of
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: the first people to really raise the alarm about the
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: role that online harassment plays in our landscape. We're black women.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: These womy have been saying this for years, and people
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and by that I mean people with power, that people
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: with power to do something pretty much ignored them. And
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: so I would then argue that not sitting to black
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: women has consequences for all of us. A couple of examples. Um,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: most people listening are probably familiar with gamer Gate. If
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: you are not familiar with gamer Gate, I am jealous.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: But essentially it was like, if that's something that you were, like,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: I've never heard of that before, I want to live
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: the life that you are living, right, But essentially, gamer
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Gate was when a bunch of men, uh pretty much
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: attacked and harassed mostly women under the guys of being
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: big mad about scare quotes ethics in gaming journalism, and
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: it got lots of attention, rightly, and most people like
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: probably remember it, but those same people probably don't know
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: that the same folks responsible for gamer Gate, we're using
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: those exact same tactics against black women. Before gamer Gate,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: women like Adria Richards, who was targeted for racist raspen
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: online after she tweeted about a crass joke about dongoles
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: that she overheard at a work event. Or women like
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Shafika Hudson, who in actually reported and called bad actors
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: who were using dake accounts to impersonate black women to
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: destabilize Internet communities. You know, these are women who spoke
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: up about what they were facing on the Internet, and
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: they were basically ignored. And I wonder what might have
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: happened if somebody with power had actually listened to them
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: and taken some action. For one, I believe gamer Gate
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: might have gone down very differently if when people use
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: these tactics against black women somebody was like, hey, wait,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: this is bad. We should not allow our platform to
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: be used this way and made some changes. Or consider
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: the fact that six years after Saphia Hudson reported people
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: impersonating black folks on Twitter to cause chaos, white supremacist
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: groups use that very same tactic during the racial uprisings
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: to make it seem like Black Lives Matter activists were
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: using the Internet to call for people to like loot
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: homes and cause violence, and Twitter actually confirmed this. Twitter
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, we can confirm now that some
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: of the accounts who were using our platform to call
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: for people to like loot and cause violence during these protests,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: those were actually white supremacists pretending to be Black Lives
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Matter activists. And so you know, they didn't actually explain
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: why they did all to prevent this from being a
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: tactic on a larger scale down the line, if they
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: knew it was a vulnerability of their platform. And when
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: we zoom out even further, these are the same tactics
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: that a Senate inquiry in would confirm we're used to
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: try to destabilize election, right, And so if when these
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: black women reported what they were seeing online, if somebody
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: had done something, I wonder, would bad actors who were
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: trying to use this tactic to destabilize our elections and
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: destabilize our online communities and truly cause violence and chaos,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: would that have been a a viable tactic? I would
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: argue maybe not. But again, these are the consequences when
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: folks don't listen to black women and don't take them
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: seriously when they speak up about what they're experiencing online. Yeah,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: and one of the things that annoys me the most
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: is when this whole idea of like that's just sort
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: of the price of the game. Accept it, like you know,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: if you're tough, and sometimes people will try to paint
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: it in a very nice brush, like you're strong enough
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: to make it against all this harassment, all this stuff online,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: You're you're so tough. But really, we shouldn't be accepting
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: this or expecting this in the first place. And that
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: is one of the things the points you're making here
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: is that we've normalized it to the point where I've
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: even heard conversations will people where people will paint it
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: as like, oh, it's a good thing, she's tough, she
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: can survive in this environment. It shouldn't be that way, right, Yeah.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: I don't want to have a political landscape where you
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: have to be able to publicly endure and withstand attacks
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: on you and your family, because when it's women, the
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: research is super clear that it's never just the woman
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: who was attacked. It's her, her mom, her dad, her kids,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: her partner, her community, her neighbors, her ends. I don't
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: want a political climate that says that women have to
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: be able to endure these kinds of attacks on their
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: safety and and watch their families deal with it as well. Uh,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: if they want to be elected officials, if they want
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: to serve their community, if they want to just take
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: place in civic life, that's not the kind of climate
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I want. We should not that's not acceptable. That's not
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: a norm that we should be okay with, you know.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: And I keep thinking about how the algorithm has changed.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: And I was talking to Annie about our own algorithm,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: and because we are so afraid of social media, we
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: stay away from it, and therefore anytime we do put
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: anything up, it's ignored because we don't have a lot
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: of content out there. And I still think about how Twitter,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: and I know, for all uh references, it's just that
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: we talk about black Twitter. It is the community coming
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: together and having like their own space and talking. And
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: because they've kind of become grouped and has has become
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: a point where if you don't already uh follow some
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: of these people, or if you're not actually paying attention,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: it just goes away from your feed. Kind of how
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: TikTok is doing that. We're just making it harder and
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: harder to actually see what is happening and what the
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: truth really is going down. I have to question, like
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: so is the algorithm really a good thing in that
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: it does this tour where you're in your own little
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: hole and where it's putting pocketing black women who are like, Hey,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: this bad thing is happening. We're trying to tell y'all,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: But the only people who are seeing those are the
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: people who already know. And it's like, what the hell,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: how do we change that? Yeah? What an insightful question.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: So this is just my opinion. This is like just
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: representing myself. I don't think that it is good they
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: have a platform like Twitter, especially be so tied to
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: an algorithm. I don't think it's good for all the
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: reasons that you just said. People they're there, voices can
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: be siloed, you can feel like you're talking to the
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: choir of people who already agree with you, and you know,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: I know what you're saying. And I also think that
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I don't think that platforms have shown that they're able
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: to be responsible with algorithmically generated content right now. Algorithms
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: are just it's just a fact. They are biased towards
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: content that is untrue. False information travels on Twitter, specifically
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: much faster and much further than correct information. They amplify
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: content that is extremist. And I don't mean like extremists,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: like capital E extremists, although that as well, but like
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: content that is, you know, more extreme than not extreme.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: So if I'm saying, like I ate a piece of
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: toast today and it was burnt, I hate all toast
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: rather than like, oh, this piece of toast was burnt.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: When some lose them, they're going to amplify the one
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: that sounds more extreme, because that's that's what gets more eyeballs. Um.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: They amplify content that is polarizing, They amplify content that
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: is loud and aggressive. And I don't think that platforms
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: can be trusted to be run algorithmically because they are
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: going to make us all more extreme, more polarized, less informed,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: and less thoughtful. I would love to see an algorithmic
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: model that is amplifies content that is thoughtful, honest, accurate, timely, whatever,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: but I have not seen it yet, And so I
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: think platforms have shown that they can't be trusted to
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: to work with algorithmic models because they're just going to
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: amplify stuff that makes us all worse off. Right, Yeah,
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: And I honestly just being new to TikTok and We've
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: talked about TikTok often um on the show, but it
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: also does the same thing with the f y P
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: or for you page, where it only amplifies what seems
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: to be UH most disturbing. I say that for my
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: own UH concept because there's so much out there that
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: the worst shadow banning and the idea that many of
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: these algorithms do this that there's an enough that people
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: can complain or make false allegations, and and their standard
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: of what they think is bullying and or racist is
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: not And apparently they have a pretty big threshold of
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: saying no, it's not right racists, we're good, um, even
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: though it's obviously super racist, in the fact that they
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: seem to keep working on that level in and allowing
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: for things that we know is I don't know, being threatened,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: being called by a stereotype that I would consider racist,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: but yet for so often that it's not that big
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: of a deal. They're not really threatening you, like, wait, yeah,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: so we have to have a police report to actually
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: say that we're being threatened, and that seems to be
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: happening often in these platforms exactly. And this is when
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: I said I wasn't really a big fan of algorithmic platforms.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: One of the reasons is because I think that we're
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: as humans, we are giving the responsibility of moderating platforms
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: more and more to algorithms or AI. And AI is
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: smart and good at lots of things, but there are
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: some things that you need a humans take on. And
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: so Sam, you know, you talked about how like oh,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: I'm being called a racial slur or like I'm being
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: attacked in this way. Bad actors are so good at
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: using dog whistles or coded language or things to get
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: around AI or machine learning that is, like you know,
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: working as a content moderator, and they know how to
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: exploit those loopholes. And so I completely agree. Especially on TikTok,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: I feel like they really need to make some changes
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: with how their platform is run if that platform is
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: going to be safer and more inclusive. Um. I think
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: it was the Washington Post recently that just did a
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: little experiment where if you don't follow a Washington Post
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: on TikTok, they have a really interesting TikTok channel. They
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: are doing a series on TikTok where they used all
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: these words that they were certain we're going to get
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: their TikTok suppressed. Um, so they they did a TikTok
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: where they said racism, black lives matter, disability, um, you know,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: all these other words, because they were like if you,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: if you use these words in your TikTok, they are
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: more likely to be suppressed. What they were doing an experiment,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: and by golly, it worked, you know. And so it's
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: clear to me that platforms are not being run one
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: with a thoughtful, nuanced, sensitive human who is able to
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: understand nuance at the helm and to just not being
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: run in a way that amplifies good conversation, thoughtful conversation,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: substitutive conversation, and does not amplify garbage, lies, extremism, hate,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: racial slurs, all of that. Yeah, And on top of that,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: you have again as you talk bad players who and
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: I've seen this a lot more on TikTok because again, um,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: that person, but like in the conversations that they thinking
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: that they're doing something good and doing that extreme call
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: out in which they get people fired and canceled and
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: all of these things and go after people on just
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: one video. And don't get me wrong, a lot of
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: these I agree with that. These people who are saying
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: really nasty crap and being caught on camera, are caught
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: on their phone for saying these things should be called out,
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: that I should be repercussions. But has come to a
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: point that it's enter came it almost and I'm wondering
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: where this is gonna lead because it's a fairly new
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: thing out of the last um five years. And I
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: say that for the both the left and the right,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: that it's like this is this is getting dangerously toxic.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Dangerously toxic. That's a whole different conversation. I know. No,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: it's so funny that you bring this up because I
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: so I recorded the first episode of Internet Hate Machine
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: with Sophie earlier this week, and I haven't perhaps unpopular
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: opinion on this. When I first got on TikTok, specifically,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: I followed a lot of creators who made content that
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: was like this guy is a racist and this is
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: where he works and I'm gonna call his employer and
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: get him fired. And I used to be like, yeah,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: like fire that racist, Like really loved it. As I have,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: I guess matured and matured along with the platform. As
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: cathartic as that as that is, I don't think that
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: that is an appropriate tactic. And I think that even
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: if I am in agreement like yeah, this racist shouldn't
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: be doing this, and they're definitely exceptions to this, I'm sure,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: but in general, I just know how easy it is
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: for bad actors and extremists to weaponize that very same tactic. Right,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: we're gonna coordinate and have all these people call this
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: person to get them fired because we didn't like what
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: they tweeted. I don't think that that is a tactic
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: that makes us smarter, that makes us better, that makes us,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: you know, healthier as a society. So even when I
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: see it happening with someone who was sensibly I agree with,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: shouldn't you know they deserve it? I feel like I
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: know how easily that is a tactic to be exploited
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: and weaponized by bad actors. And our first episode actually
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: deals with this woman, Aga Richards, who I was talking
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: about earlier, who was one of the early targets of that,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: where she tweeted a picture of these two guys at
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: a tech conference who are making a crass joke that
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: she didn't like, and she got horribly mobbed, where they
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: coordinated on on sites like furchand to call her employer.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: They threatened her employer, and rather than supporting her, her
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: employer fired her and was like, Okay, yeah, you guys
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: want her to be fired, she's fired. And I've just
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: seen time and time again that that tactic is so
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: easily gamified and weaponized and exploited by bad actors that
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: I don't think anybody should be engaged in it, right,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: And that's that's the other conversation that it keeps going
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: into my head, is that the whole level of Docks saying,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: and which is this kind of like again, this is
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: the entertainment level. And this is where it's getting really
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: disgusting to me that I'm like, Okay, we we have
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: used this as a form of entertainment to see if
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: people can be ruined. Yes, consequences should happen, but there's
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: this whole new level that that's entertainment now and that
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: needs to be a conversation. Like, the whole gist of
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: the entire conversation is it becomes a small thing that
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: becomes bigger and bigger and then normalized, and then it's
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: like we don't realize what we're doing in that we
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: have not only ruined people's life but probably a lot
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: of innocent people's lives and attached to that, and then
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: you see that, Okay, this has been happening, but these
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: platforms like TikTok, which is fair knew, are still allowing
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: it to happen. How is this not changing exactly? And
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: I think we have gotten to a place where it's
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: it's normalized as entertainment and it's it's not even I mean,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: like we're talking about pretty serious things like women running
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: for office and being engaged in democratic and civic life.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Do you remember couch guy TikTok, the guy who everybody
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: was so convinced was cheating on his girlfriend and it
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: was caught on TikTok because his long distance girlfriend films
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: the TikTok of her surprising him and his he's not
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: reacting the way that maybe you might expect somebody to react,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: and everybody was like overnight became a body language expert,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: and like I saw people on television news. I saw
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: a segment where they had a quote body language expert
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: breaking down his body language. These are strangers, right, And
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: so I do think we've gotten to this place where
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: we are We've gotten really comfortable making complete like assumptions
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: about people we do not know, confidently going on on
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: big platforms and airing those assumptions, and because of the
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: way that algorithms work, those assumptions will get millions of
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: people to watch them and then reply with their own assumptions.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Because of the of the sort of riff and remix
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: culture of TikTok, then they'll say, well, actually, I think
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: he was cheating like this and not like that, Like
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: it's not it's not healthy, and it's not good for
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: our society. The couch guy was such a meme essentially,
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: but you know what, I've seen something similar to that
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: just recently on Twitter, and I have no opinion. I
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Joseph was like, wow, okay, garden Lady, Yes, yes, garden Lady.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, wow, that just what just happen. Yeah,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: we did an episode of There Are No Girls on
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: the Internet about this, go ahead. So if you don't
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: know who garden Lady is, she is this woman who
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: has a garden, and she tweeted something along the lines
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: of life I start every morning with taking my coffee
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: out to my garden with my husband and talk for hours.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Never gets old. Love him. So the morning, the entire
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: internet was like boo, we hate it, we hate it. Boo. Tomato,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: tomato tomato. Right, Like, it went from like you're being
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: ablest to be and you're being classes and there are
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: things I'm like, I don't know anything about this woman,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: and then someone went into a deep dive into her
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: account and said, oh, she's an awful person. Keep attacking her.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: And I was just like, what what just happened? Yeah?
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: And I so that that was so interesting to me,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: and I feel like it's a great example of I
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: love social media and the Internet. I don't think millions
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: of people were meant to weigh in on the morning
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: routine of a stranger in this way, like I saw
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: the same thing. Or people were like, actually, she's anti
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: vax and it's like, well, I don't think the people
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: who are attacking her are attacking her because she they
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: knew that, like she maybe post. I mean, I don't
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: even I can't you know, confirm or deny that. But
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know that that's why people
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: are attacking her, and I you know, I saw probably
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: the wildest response to that tweet I saw was someone
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: being like, oh, don't you work and she was like
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: oh I, oh my own business, so I'm able to
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: have flexibility in the mornings. And then somebody else replied, oh,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: so you're exploiting the labor of your employees and that's
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: why you're able to have these nice mornings terrible, and
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: she was like, I'm the sole employee of my small business.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: And so just like layers and layers and layers of
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: assumed bulle about something they don't even know. But that's
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: the thing is, like it becomes this really really tempestuous
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: like grounds of like, Okay, her doing a noculous statement
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: about how she loved this moment with her husband has
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: made it. Some people have weaponized it against her, telling
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: her she's all these things, and you're like, what how
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: did we get here? Why are we here? And what
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: is this platform? Because like like what is this platform?
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Like why am I being told that I need to
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: care about this stranger? Why why is it being surfaced
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: to me? What is going on that this is even
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: something that I am aware of, like the morning routine
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: of this person that I will probably never even meet. Yeah,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: I feel like so many things. One of my big
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: concerns about social media and the internet now is you know,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: like internet literacy context I feel like we've thrown contexts
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: out the window, but also just that kind of idea
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: where or this is a lighter example, but of this, Oh,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: I've got to have an opinion, I've gotta have a
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: stance and I'm going to say something, and then you
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: like don't do any other research into it, and then
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: when you add in like misinformation and disinformation, it just
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: frightens me to be honest, Like, I keep seeing all
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: these stories about, oh, this image was fake, and I
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: haven't even seen the image in question, but I know
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: that a lot of people saw it and they believed it,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: and like that it gets my heart running for same.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And I really resonate with your point
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: about having to have a take. I feel like so
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: the way social media functions, both the algorithmic nature of
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: social media platforms and the speed by which social media
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: platforms tend to move, I think it incentivizes people to
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: feel like they have to have a take and they
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: have to have it right away. In reality, it's okay
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: to not have a take. It's okay to to be like,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: I don't really know anything about this, me putting my
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: opinion or my voice out there on an issue that
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know about is not going to be helpful.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: It's not going to add to the conversation. I'll just listen, right.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: I don't think that social media platforms incentivize just taking
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: me a step back, or even just taking a minute
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: to to figure out what you want to say. It's
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: like it has to be quick, has to be now,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: you have to reply, get that engagement, and that doesn't
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: serve anybody. I don't think that social media platforms incentivize
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: us to be thoughtful or you know, our best there.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: I think there was like, for instance, when the Queen died,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: I don't really know anything about the monarchy. I don't
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: really know what I don't really I'm not invested in it.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: And so I'm at someone that you would that you
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: need to hear from on it, right, Like I was like,
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: there are people who are very invested in this. Let
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: them have the spotlight of like saying what they want
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: to say. I think that it's okay to not weigh in,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: it's okay to not have a hot take. I don't
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: think social media platforms incentivize or encourage us to just
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: listen sometimes. Yeah, and I think we've seen that seep
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: into our daily lives and our politics, because I just
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: see that with politicians all the time, and then that
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: muddies the whole conversation because if you have this I
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: don't know anything about this garden lady, but if you
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: have this whole conversation happening, it's distracting from the very
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: real context and information we have about politicians they're doing
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: these things. So I I think I know that this
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: podcast you have coming out is so needed, um, and
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: I'm so so excited to hear it. Um. If you
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: can tell us more about it, Yeah, I mean, I
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: feel like I've got y'all. Y'all got me work obviously,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: So I think I think it does all relate. And
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: I think that what we're seeing now is these tried
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: and true tactics of online harassment becoming an animating and
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: normalized feature of our political landscape and discourse. And you know,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: there's this phrase that black women are quote canaries in
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: the coal mine for online harms because first it happens
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: to us, and then it happens to everyone, and bad
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: actors are just continuing to use these same tactics they
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: were able to perfect on black women on others and
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: so I think that we need to have leadership, people
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: with power at you know, elected officials, policymakers, and tech
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: companies listening to black women so that we can actually
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: get a handle on this. And you know, as we
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: were sort of talking about, I think that our Internet
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: and our social media platforms have become so weaponized. You know,
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: it's nearly impossible to have a meaningful conversation or meaningful
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: discourse on our communication platforms because the lead yeters who
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: run those platforms have basically incentivized and amplified lies and
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: grifts and scams and extremism where we're polarized than ever,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: and grifters know this and are basically running the show.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: And I think if we're ever planning on getting a
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: handle on this, if we're ever planning on doing something
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: about this, the first step has to be talking honestly
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: about it. And so that's why I'm doing the podcast
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: with Cool Zone Media called Internet Hate Machine, uh. And
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: I really want to chart the history of online harassment
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: against women of color specifically, and how it has led
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: us to this current political and social movement. And so
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: I hope that folks will listen. It's something that I
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: think is really timely right now as we go into
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: mid terms. I think it will be timely for a
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: long time as we determine what we want our political
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: and social landscape to look like. And it's important. I'm
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: so excited because it definitely needs to be the bigger
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: part of the conversation as we look at what our
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: democracy looks like in the future, in the near future.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Let's let's a um but not just for the United
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: States but all around the world, because we're seeing similar
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: things happen on different timelines. And I feel like you're
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: going to be able to bring in such good perspective
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: and so showing the present, the past, and possibly the
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: future with all of this, So thank you and I'm
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: excited to listen, especially that first one. Yeah, please check
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: it out. Our trailer and episode zero are already live,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: so you can go to Internet Hate Machine on wherever
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: you find your podcasts, Spotify, Apple Podcasts. You know how
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: to find your listen. This is a podcast, so you
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: know how to find podcast if you're listening to this
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: UM So episode zero is already live, but our first
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: official episode will drop on November second, so please check
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: it out. Yes, go subscribe, Please support it. Um, it's
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: amazing work. Can't wait to hear it. Where else can
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: the listeners find you, Bridget? Well, you can find me
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: on my weekly podcast about women in the Internet called
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. Can definitely find
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: that if you're listening to this podcast, Um, that's not
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: going anywhere, so we can listen to them both. You
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: can find me on Instagram at Bridget Marian d C
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: or yes, I'm still gonna be on Twitter elon must
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: be damn. You can find me on You can find
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Bridget Murray. Yes, um, and is
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: always such a delight to have you, Bridget. Wishing everybody
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: you and everybody all the best as we enter into
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: this final stretch of the midterms. And also listeners, you
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: might have heard of cameo from Bridget's cat which was
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: we needed it annoyed with me even though she doesn't
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: have a job and like has everything and has treated
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: with my queen. I'm sure I would be like, oh
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: I have a job, yes, um, I cannot wait till
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: next time. Thank you so much again, Bridget. If you
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: would like to find us, you can You can email
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: us at Stuff Media Mom Stuff at iHeart Media You
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, at most of podcast or
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Instagram and stuff we never told you. Thanks as always
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: started sup producer Chris Duda, Thank you Christina, Thanks to
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: you for listening. Stuff to the production of I Heart
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Radio for pdcast from My Heart Radio. You can check
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, wherever you listen
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. H