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CJP 85: Dr. Melissa Bird (OR-4) · Coconut Justice

• Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hey, what's good? Dr. Melissa Bird is a descendant of the Chivwitz Band of Paiutes. She has her PhD in social work, she's a small business owner, and recently she got 22% of the vote when she ran for Congress for Oregon's 4th district. And as of this afternoon, she's my new best friend. This is my conversation with Dr. Melissa Bird. Before we get into it, Remember to go to coconutjustice dot com to get you some clothes that I think would look good on you. Let's go. Hey everybody. I wanted to introduce you to my neighbor. My neighbor up in Oregon. You guys, this is Dr. Melissa Bird. Dr. Melissa Bird: Hi Carlos. I'm so happy to see you, neighbor. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I'm excited to meet you. Anyone that's from the that's currently on the west coast, I think, understands how wonderful life can be on the west coast. Dr. Melissa Bird: yeah, for sure. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Are you originally from out here? Dr. Melissa Bird: no, I'm originally from Utah, born and raised, but I'm okay. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. Dr. Melissa Bird: Just kidding. I miss Utah so much. It's like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's it. Dr. Melissa Bird: it's the most beautiful state in the whole entire, I think in the whole entire world. But Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: living there politically was was a struggle. Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. does the church out there have that much influence over Utah? Yeah. The Mormons? Dr. Melissa Bird: yeah. Yeah. The the the church we're referring to is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. And I I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, those guys. Dr. Melissa Bird: was not raised Mormon. And so and so it was it was a struggle. Growing up was Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: hard. I was also the lobbyist for Planned Parenthood of Utah. So that was also a job. Yeah. Yeah, hang on to that, because that's a great story. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): All right. So let me hang on. Let me note that she takes the easy, she takes easy jobs. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah, I got my political career started, my advocacy career. I'm a social worker, and I got my career started Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: when I wrote an emancipation of a minor bill to help homeless youth get emancipated from their parents Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: way back in 2002. I think I did the first research on homeless youth in Utah and when I was getting my master's degree. And my motivation was to help homeless LGBTQ plus youth get services. And, you know, advocating for that in Utah was also A little bit of a hard job. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I I'm gonna ask you this in in a in a it I'm gonna try to smooth the edges of the way it's delivered, I guess. What do you say to folks that say, I don't want more money going to sex change operations and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah? What what do you say to those folks? Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm. Sorry, I was checking to see if the AC was on. it's it's hot here right now. what do I say to those folks? You know, one of the funnest things about my previous job in Utah is that I connected with a lot of old school libertarian folks in a really interesting way because libertarianism has changed just like everything has changed politically. But twenty plus years ago, there was, you know, libertarians were actually very friendly towards the LGBT community because, you know, of this philosophy of keep your laws off my body and off my guns and, you know, that kind of stuff. So it Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Sure. Dr. Melissa Bird: was actually, you know, pol that phrase politics makes strange bedfellows. It really does. One of the things that I find so interesting about this. this conversation about transgender people and about transgender people and just the the way we are conceptualizing how this is a huge problem, right? That people people transitioning is is a burden on all of us. Is that it reminds me actually a lot of about the abortion debate and and how abortion actually was perfectly acceptable to most people in Telro versus Wade. And then The Catholic Church made it a big deal after Roe passed and it became this dog whistle for conservative politics. It actually was not in the lexicon. And actually Roe versus Wade is not an abortion decision. It's a privacy decision. Abortion's only mentioned three times in the entire decision. It privacy Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: it privacy is what it it is the thread for Roe. I feel like this is the same thing that that trans Transgender folks have always existed. It's always been Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: people have been transitioning for time and eternity. Like it's just what they've been doing forever. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: And us talking about it as a human rights issue is is only very recently happening because ultra conservative politicians have made it a dog whistle and have they've they've turned it into a political puck, right? We're just playing if we've just moved the the we're still talking about abortion of course because why wouldn't we? But it all falls in this same bucket of controlling people's bodies and people's lives. And I think that is I I think that is the crux of it. When I was getting my PhD, my first article was actually called Social Justice Advocacy in the belly of the beast. and unfortunately because it's an academic paper, it's behind a paywall, which sucks. But It's one of the greatest things I've ever written. But one of the things I talk about is this need to control people's bodies, which is exactly what we're doing with our transgender community members, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: stems from a long history of controlling people in general. You know, this is the this is the very fabric of our country. Slavery and genocide and And attacking people for who they are as human beings is what Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: we've been doing since colonization began. And so I think it's really important for people, especially activists and people who are really getting involved politically right now, to realize that we can't just talk about transgender rights, which are critically important to transgender people and their families and Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: their loved ones and their friends. We also have to talk about How this is actually a five hundred year old problem, we're just moving the target around. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And it all boils down to I don't need you to tell me what to do with my body. And that what's funny is the folks that are fighting getting the jab for COVID are the same folks that are telling people what to do with their bodies or wanting to control what they're doing with their own bodies. Dr. Melissa Bird: You know, I I'm a mother. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: I I grew up with a nurse. My mom was a nurse. I grew up surrounded by my best friend's mom was a nurse, her dad was a doctor. This vaccine like what the hell are we doing with this vaccine conversation? Like, how is it that all of a sudden I I just don't understand when we decided that good healthcare outcomes are a problem for people. You know what I mean? Like I'm I'm like so befuddled. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: You see it on my face because it's like I don't understand Carlos. Like, how is this the Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): No neither. Dr. Melissa Bird: timeline? Like, I don't get it. Like, why don't we want healthy people? And and yeah, I mean, if you have problems with vaccines, you should be able to opt out of those. Like, that makes sense. There are people who have really horrible reactions to vaccines, but how have we Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Dr. Melissa Bird: like I I still cannot Comprehend that we are having this conversation in the year of our Lord 2026. Like, what are we doing? I don't understand. It's so weird. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. I know I know people that are allergic to Advil. If they take Advil, it's a wrap. Don't even get us started on peanuts. We don't we don't even get peanuts on airplanes Dr. Melissa Bird: Listen. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): anymore. Dr. Melissa Bird: I know, I miss it so much. Those honey roasted Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: peanuts were so good. Those honey roasted peanuts were perfection. They were. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): They were really good. But now those little the little waffle cookies that they give out, that's that's where the magic is. Dr. Melissa Bird: I know. They're pretty good. Yeah, truthfully. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Where'd you get your PhD? Dr. Melissa Bird: the University of Spoiled Children, otherwise known as USC, the University of Southern California. I got my master's degree at the University of Utah on social work, and then I got my PhD at our rival school, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: USC, back in twenty seventeen. And then we moved up to Corvallis, so that my Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): cool. Dr. Melissa Bird: husband, who's a disabled veteran, could go to Oregon State University on the GI Bill. So that's how we ended up Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): nice. Dr. Melissa Bird: here. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So number one, tell him thank you for his service and thank you. how about it? Dr. Melissa Bird: Sure. I tell him all the time, I'm all thank you for your service, Jim. Every time he gets screwed by the VA, every time something bad happens with the VA, I'm all thank you for your service. Good job. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): you derailed me. That was funny. Dr. Melissa Bird: It's a regular occurrence. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah, no. being, you know, I I'm also a veteran. And so when we're having this conversation about shots and injections and all the things, I'm like, look, I was seventeen and they shot me up full of all kinds of stuff. yeah. All they did Dr. Melissa Bird: Did you have the gun? yeah. Jim's told me about the gun. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, all they do is tell you, don't move, and then like I had one on one side, two on the other, and it's just like foof. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yes Boom. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And they're like, Yeah, well, this is gonna scab up, the scab is gonna fall, then you'll you know. I'm like, All right, cool. I was in the army. Dr. Melissa Bird: What branch were did you serve in? so is Jimmy. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, I was field artillery. Dr. Melissa Bird: So's Jim. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I was the thirteenth November. Dr. Melissa Bird: I don't remember what he was. I know he's in the big red one, but that was before I met him. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: He's a Ford Observer. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): no, I was I'm I'm in the back. I shot missiles. Yeah. Yeah. I shot missiles. Dr. Melissa Bird: You're in the back. Yeah, he's in the front. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): My battle cry was nuke till they glow. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: lovely. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. 'Cause you know, all life matters. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. All life matters. That's correct. As long as we're going to blow it all up. Yeah, no, Jim Jim has told me we don't even know what he's vaccinated with. Cause you don't get to know. You don't get to know. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. I'm just I'm just I'm just excited yeah, I'm just excited I don't glow in the dark. Dr. Melissa Bird: So he says that all the time too. Do you also have those really bananas healing powers where you if you get injured, like all of a sudden you heal? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I don't want to jinx anything, but I'm in pretty good shape. And yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah, like Jim will cut himself in a cut that's supposed to like that would really take me weeks to heal. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: He's like three days done. Yeah, it's weird. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. No, the I mean the thing that I do get is I look way younger than I am. And so and so folks are like, no you're not I'm like, no I am. Like I could very easily be someone's grandfather Dr. Melissa Bird: So good, Jimmy. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, he might be Captain America for all we know. Dr. Melissa Bird: Listen. my god. the BA. God love it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): that's too good. Yeah. I do like my VA here though. I love my doctor, the facility. We got a a new building. and once they moved all the all the what do you call it? You don't call homeless 'cause they have mobile homes, but the whatever you call them, Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. The healthy, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): they used to live right outside and then they They asked him to move. So now the VA looks great. Dr. Melissa Bird: Nice. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's a nice view. Dr. Melissa Bird: You know, the speaking of things I think your audience should know. So Jim's trying to get more of his disability, right? 'Cause he really Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: he's trying to get a higher rating. And I think everyone should know that the VA has now decided to contract with a third party outside provider to do the evaluations for VA disability. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. Dr. Melissa Bird: And they don't actually know they don't have any background or training with veteran services at all or with Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: veterans. They're just like a third party, they're almost like an AI company in some ways. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. Dr. Melissa Bird: And it is really wreaking havoc on what our veterans are experiencing when they're trying to get disability. And this is new. This is Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: like in the last year and a half, maybe two years. This third party provider Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And all these Dr. Melissa Bird: is so bad. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Huh. Dr. Melissa Bird: So bad. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): People that I know they're like, Why'd you start a podcast? I said, Because the cuts to the VA got into my therapy budget Dr. Melissa Bird: Right? What else are you gonna do, ma'am? God Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): so Dr. Melissa Bird: But like I really think people should be in an uproar about that. Like the fact that we're using a third party provider to Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: try and help our disabled veterans get rated for their disability is really gross because they have no idea what they're doing. And he can't get an appointment. And he works on a boat. So like his job Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. Dr. Melissa Bird: is he actually deploys all the time to the ocean. And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: so if they decide to make his this is what happened two years ago. They decided to make his appointment while he was in the middle of the Bering Sea in Alaska and they wouldn't let him reschedule. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. Dr. Melissa Bird: They were like, Nope, we're just dropping your claim. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And that's that's Dr. Melissa Bird: Thank you for your service indeed. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): for real. That's where that's where it drives me nuts when people say, No, we have to privatize everything. No, we don't because Dr. Melissa Bird: No. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): if we do, we're going to lose. They're always chipping away at at saving money. They're always chipping away at taking your money and not giving you and not being there when they need you. Dr. Melissa Bird: Here's a banana's idea. How about instead of trying to save money, we start taxing billionaires? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That'd be crazy. I'll go I'll Dr. Melissa Bird: Bananas. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): go, I'll go even because you know when you say that there's a certain there's a certain group of Americans who's, you know, sphincters tighten right? Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): How about we just stop bombing people and take that? I was having this conversation just yesterday. I said, imagine it's costing us $1.5 billion a day to bomb some people who I don't know about you, but they never came here and made my day any worse. Dr. Melissa Bird: Nope. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So if you took one and a half billion dollars a day, let's just for a month, you go to New York, you give them one and a half billion dollars and see what they do with it. Then go to Chicago. fuck LA. Go to LA, give them one Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and a half billion dollars. And then Chicago, give them one and a half billion dollars, and then Houston and go to the th top thirty cities that we have, the biggest ones that we have, the top thirty, and see how 1.5 billion dollars in one day wouldn't turn that city around. Dr. Melissa Bird: You know, I have a better proposition for you since Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Tell me. Dr. Melissa Bird: I just ran for Congress and most of my district is rural. Is I would love to see us give one point five billion dollars to each county. And see what they do with it. Doesn't matter what county, doesn't matter what city, doesn't matter their politics. If we gave $1.5 billion to each county and told them that they could use it for infrastructure. Like there are places here in in I know in California, but here in Oregon where there's no water. No water. And you know what? I'm gonna take it one step further because that's just how I roll. Let's give one billion one point five billion dollars each. to every single tribe, every reservation in this country, and say, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): tell him. Dr. Melissa Bird: here you go. My bad. There you go. And see what they could do with one point five billion. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. And then what hey, while we're there while we're there, why don't we do a little math behind these what we call reparations? And get to and see if one and a half billion dollars invested into the west side of Chicago wouldn't turn things around there. Dr. Melissa Bird: Listen, listen. And this is why I didn't win my primary, 'cause I had too many audacious ideas about what we should be doing with our tax dollars as I am paying out the butt for taxes. Like yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And that's I mean, you're paying out the butt for taxes because you're like a super rich billionaire, right? Dr. Melissa Bird: No toads. Yeah. That's exactly it. How did you know? This is all a facade. Me being grateful for my part-time job making 25 Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I knew it. I knew I could tell. I could tell. What you guys don't see. Dr. Melissa Bird: bucks an hour. Yes. I just did that as a hobby, not because I needed it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): The that ship in the ship in the background is a real ship. She's just at you know, it's a it's a weird angle. Dr. Melissa Bird: Right, it's a weird angle. That's my yacht. God, when Jim brought that home from the estate sale, I was like, Now we have a dead person's ship in our house. That's great. Thanks, buddy. Lord God Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. How was it growing up? How how many Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): do you have any siblings or anything? How was it growing up in Utah? Dr. Melissa Bird: growing up was rough. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: I my dad committed suicide when I was six. And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hm Any reason left behind? Dr. Melissa Bird: He didn't know, but there Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): No. Dr. Melissa Bird: now I'll I'll get to that part of the story in a second. But he left my mother was a stay at home mom and Mormon housewife. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: And I have one I actually have two sisters now, but I at the time when he I had a three year old sister when he died. And my mom went off the deep end. She she broke her heart was broken in a million billion pieces. And so Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: she went from being a stay at home Mormon housewife to being now this was nineteen eighty, so Even in Utah we did have a little bit of a the eighties cocaine heyday. So my mom became a drug addict and an alcoholic within like six months. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Todo eso. Dr. Melissa Bird: And so I did it it wasn't just that I w my dad was gone, but my mom really lost her mind and he broke her heart. And sh and now we talk about it I mean she's sober she got sober, but you know, I talked to her about the fact that y there were no reason like the church basically kicked us out of our neighborhood and shunned us 'cause he died the wrong way. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. Dr. Melissa Bird: We got rejected by the people that had were supposed to support my mom and our family the most, you know. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: And so it was really hard. I mean, I grew up I I I grew up with a I mean, my story is not any less typical than many people that I know, you know, lots of lots of trauma, lots of abuse, lots of crap. and and I think that's that's why I went into social work, you know, obviously, you know. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: I think a lot of social workers go into social work because they have really crappy childhoods. yay therapy. Like decades of therapy Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I agree. For real though. Dr. Melissa Bird: later. but it was really hard and it was hard for a couple of reasons. It was hard because my dad died the wrong way, right? it was hard because my mother, I couldn't talk it's not like I could talk to my friends at school about what was happening in my life because we weren't going to church. I would go to church simply to have friends, right? but I didn't want to go to church. That wasn't my you know, it's it was hard. Plus I'm part Native American, right? So I'm Native American and couldn't talk about that because first of all, my mom my mom really struggled with talking about it because my dad was Native American and it was back in nineteen eighty and we just didn't talk about those things back then. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: And then so you have that on top of the fact that I'm also bisexual. So I w coming out in Utah in I was I graduated in 92. So you know, Gen X all the way. And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: you know, like didn't talk about that. And so Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: there were a whole lot of things that made my growing up really difficult and complicated. Couldn't ask about my dad. my friends and I, I we I still have two friends I've been friends with my whole entire life. 51 years this year, we've been friends. And we still talk about how dark my skin would get in the in the summer, like you Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: know, and we would sit around and try and figure out which tribe I was a part of. But I didn't find out until I was 17. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What what what kind of research were you doing back then to try to follow your lineage? Nothing? Dr. Melissa Bird: Nothing. But then when I turned 17, I was graduating from high school and my mom was like, you know, I think because you're native, you could probably get a scholarship or something. Okay, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: thanks, white mom. thanks, mom. I'll call the grandma who I haven't spoken to since my dad died, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: and and see what she has to say. that part of my family was really abusive. And so the last time I actually saw his parents was when I was eleven. And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: it was a very traumatizing, like it was horrible. There's so much abuse on that side of my family and Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: just awful. And so I called her out of the blue and I was like, Hey, so long time no talk. mom thinks I could get some money for college. Could you tell me who I am? Was an awkward conversation, Carlos. Really awkward. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: we had a lovely chat. 92. 92. I graduated Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And this is back this is back you said in the eighties in ninety two. Yeah. Ninety two. Dr. Melissa Bird: in 92. Yeah. No, we weren't having and and here's the thing that I've realized now as an adult. Like, here's here's let me I want to put this in context for your listeners. Okay. So 1978 was when the American Indian Religious Freedom Act was passed. Okay. Nineteen seventy-eight. That's when it became legal for Native people to do ceremony, to drum, to hold feathers. Right. Nineteen seventy-eight. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Jesus, yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: I was four. I was four. Okay. So my dad dies two years after that. I'm calling my grandma 14 years after the American Indian Religious Freedom Act pack. I know nothing about our story. Nothing. I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: in fact I did not find out anything about our story until about twenty years ago. So she's like, You can't get a scholarship because you're not enrolled and we're not enrolled because of this. I had no idea what she was talking about. I didn't understand any of it. I was like, Okay, thanks for your information. Bye. I'm gonna go to college later. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ha ha ha. Dr. Melissa Bird: Moved to Alaska, went to the U University of Alaska Fairbanks 'cause they were offering scholarships for women to come to Alaska 'cause it was five men to every one woman. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Jesus Dr. Melissa Bird: And I had terrible grades. So it's not like I was going on my academics. I didn't get my first A in college until I got a PhD. I barely made it through high school, let's be honest. Like the PhD was for me. Don't tell USC that. so I go to Alaska. I still don't know who I am, but I'm all of a sudden I'm surrounded by all these native people and I'm like, what is this? Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: What is happening here? Cause even at at the university, there's like lots of native folks there. And then I left and I didn't like Alaska because it's dark there. And it was the harshest winter they'd had in ten years. And it was like 90 below. And I was like, I cannot with this. No, thank you. Bye bye. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I get it, I'm outta here. USC here I come. Dr. Melissa Bird: No, that took some time. But I went back to Utah and had no idea what I was doing with my life. And And eventually I mean I'm fast forwarding through some things. but in two thousand six I decided to Google search my dad's obituary. And I found my uncle, my uncle Arvil, because he was a he's a musician and Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): cool. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: his phone number was on his website and I called him. And that's when I found out that I was a descendant of the Shipwitz Band of Paiots. And that's when I got all the paperwork and all the letters and all that information was in twenty years ago this year. Bananas. And that, my Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): How Dr. Melissa Bird: friends, is the story of colonization and genocide. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I got so many of those stories. Dr. Melissa Bird: I'm sure. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): no and and and this is like well, right now I'm working on a on a video from when I went to the French Polynesian area and the people there tell stories of colonization, la la la. But their colonization came from the French, but it's still very similar to Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): you know, the Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): handling of the na the Native Native Americans here. It's Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): just brute force. Like the guy said you come to a place and you're the only one with the gun, y that means you're the one that gets to make the decisions. And It's just being forced to be something that you're not is only going to cause all of this trauma. It's going to cause all the and then we're talking about growing up in the I I graduated in eighty-nine. We're talking about growing up in the 70s and eighties where we're still writing things on paper and we're Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah! Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And there was no such thing as being so weak as a specifically as a man to go and get therapy? Are you crazy? I'm just Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): gonna go get this belt. Well, my dad never beat me, but I can You can tell folks that don't have have this the the way I describe it to people that have is when you're coming from the inner city, it's like a you're you're fighting through a barrel of crabs and everything Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): is pushing and shoving and elbowing and you're just trying to get out, get out, get out. Dr. Melissa Bird: Sounds a mosh pit. As the old punk rocker. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. That's that's city living. Yeah. You you mosh pit and then finally you get out to the, you know, the suburbs and such and then you start lit once once you progress in your career and you start making it to a certain level, that that lack of friction in your life lets you tap into who you are, who you really are. Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm, mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And imagine knowing, finally understanding that you come from this this tribe and y your body starts to make some sense. Like, why am I the only one that can stand out in the sun for, you know, an extra two hours where everyone else is burnt, Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah, yeah. Really? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): you know? Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. And I think that this is what I think people don't understand about what it means to be native in in the United States right now. Like, there's a really great book that I suggest to everybody, and I mention it on every podcast because I want every single human to read it. It's called The Rediscovery of America by Ned Blackhawk. He is from Yale and it is truthfully the greatest history I have ever read about colonization and and this nation and the indigenous people. And the reason I I love that book so much is because it's very accessible and it's so well written and so well researched. But I learned things, speaking of the French, I learned things I never, never knew about what was happening with the Revolutionary War. with water, with all of the things we're dealing with now. I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: learned I learned so much from that book and and I I I think i you know people just ask really dumb questions honestly like how how native are you you know like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: which my favorite response is how wide are you like That's a that's not a question we ask anymore. But I think that like we we act, we make, you know, you started off this whole conversation talking about trans rights and vaccinations and like all of these things that we turn into this sort of really nauseating academic exercise. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: And it took me, it has taken me literally 10 years, almost 10 years, to realize that the The experiences that I have had as a native girl, and this gets back to my dad's suicide. I think part of the reason my dad died is because he could not be who he was in the context of the Mormon church. As a very I mean, he was six foot four, he's big. I call him a big Indian. He was big man. And he had a presence about him. And He also like I was sitting at Indigenous People's Day at Oregon State University this last year, like in 2025. And I was bawling, like I had snot coming out my nose, sobbing. And I it hit me as they were playing, they were playing the drums. and I was listening to it and I was listening to them sing and drum. And I, you know, I go to powwow, like I've It's not like I haven't heard this before. I listened to it on my Spotify, right? But what I realized in that moment is my father has never heard that. What a what a privilege it is and an honor it is and a beautiful thing it is that I as a 51-year-old Native American girl can listen to those drums Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: in a public space that was previously created to take land. Land grant institutions were created to take land away, as much land as possible away from Native people. And my father never heard that. He must have known spiritually and intuitively that that was missing from his life. Because I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: remember the first time I ever heard those drums being played in person at a powwow. And I was that was only 20 years ago. I only went to my first powwow 20 years ago. And it was, I mean, I didn't know what was happening to me because I was still so out of touch with what was going on in my world. And I was still very much trying to reject who I was and like. There's a line, there's a really beautiful book by Stephen Charleston. I'm a big reader. Stephen Charleston, who he wrote about too white to be native, too native to be white. And this is such a part of this world that we're talking about, that decolonization is not about landback, even though it is. But like it's not about reparations, even though it is. It's about how we have literally spent 500 years being ingrained to believe. that that all of these structures that we live under, they are woven in this idea of completely eliminating an entire group of human beings from the planet. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: And that's bananas. And that's why I ran for Congress. Cause Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's very bananas. Dr. Melissa Bird: I was like, someone's gotta run. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Especially these days where where i it's it's almost like they're forcing us to detach from where we come from. and it and and that goes to a bunch of different levels, not just detaching from being native Native American or in my case I'm Cuban, Puerto Rican, Dominican of descent. I'm a Chicagoan. I'm from Chicago. Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): If you drop me off in Puerto Rico, they're gonna say drop his ass back off in Chicago. We don't need that foolishness here. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and now that I cracked that joke, I lost my track. but it it being able to track down who you are so you can understand who you are and then be that. Dr. Melissa Bird: Such a threat to the system. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Isn't it crazy? Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And then not just from where we come from, but chemically speaking. Being able to have the freedom to live your life the way you feel fit, Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): the independence to find out who you are and then live that life. Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Instead of constantly try don't box me in, I don't fit in your box. I don't fit in your box. Leave me be. I d Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): corporate America. I don't fit in corporate America. Stop forcing me in there. Dr. Melissa Bird: What what are you talking about? I'm totally corporate. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ha ha Melissa Bird L L C Dr. Melissa Bird: Actually an LLC, my whole name. But I'm a good corporation. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Are you for real? Yeah. And that's just it. Like the whole thing was supposed to be I'm gonna do this job here for my neighborhood. And I'm gonna take care of my neighborhood. But then that turned into well, I wanna do your neighborhood and I also want to do their neighborhood. And then you find out all the people that are convincing you that helping each other, you know, these programs that help each other, they don't tell you that when you're up there counting all your money, they also have programs like that that keep them ha rich. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. It's so funny you said that 'cause all of a sudden I started singing We Are the People in the Neighborhood. In the neighborhood. Yeah. Who are the Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): In the neighborhood Dr. Melissa Bird: people? You know what? We should bring that back, Carlos. Like who are the people in your neighborhood? Like who do you know the people that you meet Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: when you're walking down the street? I was in a meeting, I'm I'm part of a book anthology about surrender, actually. Pretty amazing. And the the woman who's putting this whole group of people together, she was talking about how profoundly I affected her. I don't think about how I affect people until like people are like, my God, do you remember saying this one thing to me? And I'm all, sure don't. Nope. But it wasn't. I'm so glad. Yeah, I inspired you. I talk a lot and I write Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: a lot. So I don't remember a lot of what comes out of my my body. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: but she said, You you talked to me once about. How you just talk to strangers on the street. Like you just talk to people. Like you ask you compliment right? You you like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, that's me too. Dr. Melissa Bird: like, my God, I love your nail polish or wow, your your hat's awesome or whatever. Like and I talk to homeless people all the time. Like I'm all, hey, what's your name? How's it going? You know, like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): All the time. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: you know, I'm constantly talking to to people that the strangers, right? And and just Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: Saying hi. Like, like that's what we're supposed to do, I think, in the world is connect with each other. It's so strange Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: that we actually need each other because, like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: we're part of this collective web on the planet. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: And if you're like super conservative Christian and you believe in creation and you believe that the earth is God's greatest creation, then we are part of that creation, and therefore we are supposed to be talking to each other. Cause we Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hello. Dr. Melissa Bird: are all woven together. To honor Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: the land. We're supposed to be honoring this thing that's hurtling through space at a bazillion miles an hour, really close to a flaming ball of fire. Like, just in Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): FYI. Dr. Melissa Bird: case you're wondering. And so, like, like I think about like who are the people in my neighborhood? And I I know we just had some new neighbors move in, so I haven't talked to them yet, but I'm getting ready to. Like, I know my neighbors. And I'm sure that's some old Utah artifact hanging around in me. But like 'cause we go in and and we introduce ourselves to our neighbors. But like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: I'm just thinking about like who are the people that we are connected with. Like that is like the crux of my work. It's why Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: when I so I ran in the Oregon's fourth congressional district democratic primary this last year. And when I lost my primary by the way, I got twenty two percent of the vote 'cause I'm amazing. against an entrenched Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, girl. F first time. Dr. Melissa Bird: entrenched incumbent by the way. Yeah. yeah. I've been in politics for decades, but like it was my first time writing. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And this is your first time running? Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: Which is another story I'd love to get into in a minute. But like the thing that hit me that we never talk about elections by the way. I when I lost that election the next day I couldn't breathe. I c I just couldn't stop crying. And it wasn't because I lost my election. That was a bummer. Like bummer. But what I lost was my community. I had built, I had spent a year and a half traveling from the border of California, hey neighbor, all the way up three-quarters of the coast of Oregon. Like this is the second largest congressional district in the state of Oregon. I had been in six different counties traveling. Talking to people, connecting with people, on the phone with people, at events with people, doing house parties with people, going to coffee with people, talking to people, which is my favorite thing to do. I love people. I'm a peoply, peoply kid. I love it. I love it. This is why we're friends, Carlos. We're gonna be besties Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Telling you. I'm telling you. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: forever. But like that's what I miss. I miss creating a movement, giving people hope, and being part of a community of people who were so excited. And That's that's over 20,000 people. Like that's a lot of people who thought I was the B's niece. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: And and I think that I think that's what's missing in politics, right? Is that we're missing people. The incumbent actually came up to me at an event and and I said hi and and she said hi and I said, How are you? And she's like, well, you know, I'm running for office. And I was like, Yeah, isn't it amazing? She looked at me like, What? And I was like, it's the most fun I've ever had in my life. I am Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I was gonna say Dr. Melissa Bird: more proud of that. I have done a lot of things in my life, Carlos. I've written books. I I'm I'm raising human beings and they're almost grown. Like, like I I have been married four times. I have like I have I have a damn PhD. People have to call me doctor for hell's sakes. The greatest Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You're getting your money's worth Yeah. Hell yeah they do. Dr. Melissa Bird: accomplishment of my life is running for Congress. It was the most fun. I got every skill I have ever had to come up with since I was a 17-year-old kid came together in that campaign and it was incredible. God, it was good. It Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Dr. Melissa Bird: was so good. And we need more people who want to run for office because it's fun. They're having fun. Like we should not be having people running for office because it's the next step in a political career. Or because they're getting Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Thank you. Dr. Melissa Bird: so much damn money, they're becoming multi-gajillionaires because they are holding office. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Thank you, because I'm sorry. Dr. Melissa Bird: We need people who are running for Congress cause it's fun. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And and if it if you're a career politician, you are within a subsection of society You're detached I'm sorry. You're detached. Dr. Melissa Bird: Friend, friend. When we were doing research for the campaign, they had the the Atlantic and had done a 10 year, they had looked at 10 years of Congress, over seven hundred and thirty members or something like that. I know it was over seven hundred. In that ten year time frame, Carlos, only thirteen of them had ever come from the working class. Or experience poverty in their lifetime. Come the fuck on. If anybody Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And and this is a Dr. Melissa Bird: wonders, and by the way, this democracy, Carlos, not meant to be a build professional politicians. No, no, no, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: no, no. It's called the House of Representatives because it's supposed to represent the people. And it actually is supposed to turn over every two years. That was the whole damn point. The whole damn point was not to serve in the House of Representatives for 30 fucking years. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Dr. Melissa Bird: Not the point. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Because take a look, let's the if that's the case, if you're in office thirty years ago, I was here thirty years ago, things were you know, not they're not bad. They could have been better, but they weren't bad. Dr. Melissa Bird: So different. No. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And then thirty years later, there's shit falling apart, all kinds of th there's bombs in Dr. Melissa Bird: Dude Dude Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): the air, there's smoke, there's all kinds of stuff. There's no water, but then they're floodings. There's no water and then there's fires. Everything is happening. Dr. Melissa Bird: Literally on fire. Literally on fire. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Like, no bitch, we need you out of office because your ideas don't work. Get out. You've been you've been fucking things up for 30 years. Dr. Melissa Bird: Dude, when I was 21 years old, 30 years ago, I bought a house. My student loans were n like I think my monthly payment on my student loans was like 50 bucks a month or something like that. And they knocked it down to 35 because I couldn't pay it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: I had a car. I it was my first marriage. I like I I could pay off my student loans. I think my student loans were like six grand or something like that for the whole entire time. Like there was no such thing as fire season. No such thing as fire season did not exist 30 years ago. Right? I was still on a cordless phone talking on the phone. I actually still had a corded phone in my house. Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yes, ma'am. Dr. Melissa Bird: the things that have happened. And and people weren't professional politicians. They were like in, they'd be in for a couple of years, they get out and go do something else, they'd pave the way for other people to come in. This I and I try to explain this to my kids. My my middle daughter turned 18 this year, so she got to vote for her mom. If she wanted to, I gave her the choice. She made good choices. but like that was really cool, like having my kids see my name on the ballot. I was pretty amazing. But like like we can't here's what I realized running for Congress. We are in a domestic violence relationship with our government. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): One hundred percent. Dr. Melissa Bird: Because let me just tell you, if if this is as good as it gets in the fourth congressional district. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: We're voting for the devil we know versus something different. And here's what I know about poor working class people. We want something different. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: I used to have money. I used to make a lot of money. I was a lobbyist. I made a ton of money. I was Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Me too. Me too. Dr. Melissa Bird: I was I was doing real good. The fact that I'm Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Well, I wasn't a lobbyist, but I was making pretty good. Dr. Melissa Bird: right. The fact that I'm not now is sort of bananas. Like it's like the and the fact that my husband is A veteran who is supposed to be getting taken care of is struggling as much as he is. It's just like, to me, it's like if we truly want something different, then we have to take the risk to vote for something different, Carlos. And if we're not willing to vote for something different, then what are we good? Quit bitching. Quit your bitching. Because the different is showing up, right? I see this Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And I think that's where the Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: all across the country. There were four social workers running for Congress across this country that I connected with. We all lost our races. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: And I gotta tell you, it's like what how and it's all big money that's winning these races. Big, big money. And it's like, people, do your homework, learn who's running, who aligns with your values, who's going to represent you the best. And it's not the person who's been in politics for 20 or 30 years. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: Because exactly your point, dude. They don't know what it's like to be. They do not know what it's like to go to the grocery store right now. They do not Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: know what it's like to have like our water bill here in Corvallis has gone. They're adding fees to our water bill so we don't just pay for water anymore. We pay for like eight billion other things. water bill every month is like two hundred dollars. Come what why? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): But I think that's why it's important for the internet, for streaming, for these conversations that we're having. And I think that's why the independent folks in the middle, I guess there's a buildup of independence happening is because Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): we're starting to talk to each other and we're starting to say, your politician is fucking you over too. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What? And now we're starting to see that that that it's the cancer that is this greed and the the cash cow that is politics. I think we're starting to to realize that it's it's cancerous and it's deep. And we're starting to realize that it's this money in the politics that's growing Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): the cancer. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And it doesn't matter how many times they say, the economy is wonderful, we're d the economy is great, your life is shittier than it was yesterday. Dr. Melissa Bird: Wha I don't know what economy those people are living in. I honestly don't. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Not my economy. Dr. Melissa Bird: No. I th I don't think most of our economies, honestly. Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: I'm like my daughter, my oldest is twenty-four. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: She she has, you know, the struggle to find an apartment and a this and a that. I saw some meme, dude. You're gonna appreciate this. I saw some meme. Someone sent it to me to send to my daughter Caitlin. Cause it was like, it was like Getting an apartment in like nineteen eighty six or whatever it was, right? Like it was like, do you have five hundred bucks? Good. Done, right? And then like twenty years later, ten years later, or whatever, it was like, do you have like I'm gonna run your credit? And also do you have like seven hundred bucks? Great, cool, okay, you're in. And now getting an apartment is like you have to have four times your monthly your monthly income. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: Like your Four times your income, the rent has to be four times the income, or like you have to have four times the income to rent. You have to have a co-signer, you have to have a credit score of eight hundred and fifty-seven, and you have to have like, you know, rental history, which young people don't have that. by the way. And it's like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: and and rent is like $2,700 a month. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: And it's like, This is this is my first apartment Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Why? Dr. Melissa Bird: was 200 three bedroom, two Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: bath for 250 bucks a month. And that was not Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. That I just don't I don't understand it. And this isn't maybe you could 'cause you're a doctor. Okay, so the Overton window of finances. If if prices keep getting higher and CEO pay keeps getting higher, but poor people pay just doesn't move, why why aren't we shifting that window back to and we say, Hey dumbass, you can't you can't make a billion dollars a year. We have a hundred people that need to make about a hundred thousand a year, please. Dr. Melissa Bird: Well it it and not only that, but like like and also we're not gonna be able to keep shopping forever. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: I mean, I like literally don't remember the last time I bought a new pair of pants. Like my jeans are hand-me downs from my friends. They're like, Hey, do you need these jeans? I'm like, Yeah, I'll take your jeans. Like we Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: we're working in this like mutual aid economy over here as women in particular, and we're like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: Listen, you wanna do a clothing exchange? Hell yeah, I want to do a clothing exchange. Like, right? Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hell yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: we're running garage sales over here. And by the way, my kids won't buy new. They do not buy anything new. They are they are like thrift store junkies. First of all, they can't afford to buy new things. Second of all, they would rather reduce, reuse, and recycle because that's the mentality that they've grown up with their whole lives and they don't want to get new stuff, right? And so, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: so like, I don't know how these billionaires think they're going to be billionaireing. How are they going to keep going? Because we're eventually, this is just going to keep getting worse and worse and worse. And then the AI bubble is going to burst. And boy, howdy, are we going to be in Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: for some things when that And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. See it won't it won't rock my boat too much. I d I already don't have money in the bank, so it's like Dr. Melissa Bird: Friend yeah, I know. I I said I set my listen. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I'm waiting for that two thousand dollar doge check. Dr. Melissa Bird: When's that coming? I sent my my husband got doged twice, so I'm a little bitter about the whole thing anyway. I sent my son in to get water from my husband's CPAP machine l last night and I was Do you have my card? And he goes, No, I dropped it. And I go, he goes, actually I gave it to a homeless guy and I was like, he's gonna be real disappointed when he figures out there's only like a hundred dollars on it. 'Cause yeah, like like and I I said this to I said this to a group of my friends and I think I've even said it to my husband and my kids, like I never expected at fifty one years old to be in a worse financial situation than I was when I was nineteen. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I'm telling ya. I'm Dr. Melissa Bird: No way. No way. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): telling ya. I'm telling ya. Dr. Melissa Bird: Friend, this is not what we were promised. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): This is not if this is the American dream, it's a nightmare. Wake me up. Dr. Melissa Bird: Dude, that that myth that bullshit myth right there. No such thing, people. No such thing. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And you keep saying this word. Research. Research. We need to We need to d when I say this, it triggers a lot of the people on the right, but who gives a shit? We need to change the culture of this country to be more brainy so we can research, like you said, who you are, where you come from, who you should vote for, instead of taking these snake oil salesmen's opinions. We need to be able to learn We need to be able to research. We need to be able to have conversations with other smart people and say, hey. When this happens it affects the environment in this way. Dr. Melissa Bird: we've gotta do it we've gotta serve it up in a way that people can understand it. Like this is why I keep talking about colonization in the way that I do and white supremacy in Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: the way that I do and like the environment in the way that I do like and policy the way that I do because I f I feel like like if you get on my congressional website you will see that I talk I try my best not to talk about it in this hyper academic way. I try and make it something that we can all understand because Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: I feel like I feel like it's really critic critically important for us to use these beautiful brains that we are given and and use them in a way I I mean, I've been a reader since I was three. I'm a big reader. Like it's like the thing that grounds me and anchors me and makes it's the way I think is to read. And I I think a lot of people aren't encouraged to do that. Right. Like my I see my kids really struggle with it, partly because they're dyslexic, partly because they're just not raised in a c in a culture. Like their friends, it's not like their friends are like I had friends where we would have sleepovers and all we would do was read. Like we would play and we would read. And and 'cause we didn't have anything on the TV after six, you know, we had the six o'clock news came on and it like wrong, you know. Like, unless it was Saturday morning cartoons, like I wasn't on the TV very much at all. Right. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: Like we had these scheduled shows, but like you know what mean. And so, like, I I think what I want to encourage people to do is it's not about like going in all hot and heavy. It's about taking 10 minutes when the voter's pamphlet shows up in your mail and understanding your race, like understanding that people are running that are going to control your lives for at least two years, if not four to six years. And and it doesn't matter if they are a judge or on the school board or on city council or county commission or state legislator or federal. These people are controlling our lives right now. They are the marion, they are the marionettes with the puppets. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: And if we truly want change to happen in this country, I think we have to make peace with the fact that our democracy is crumbling. Because this is what democracies do every couple of hundred years. This is just how the evolution of this type of government works. And also a democracy built on genocide and slavery is not actually, in fact, a democracy. Bananas. Weird. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): This whole thing has been a smash and grab. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yes. And I love this democracy. Like I think I think as a a form of government, it's really fascinating. Like I think it's really interesting these branches of government. And I think it's really interesting these checks and balances, which by the way, Congress is not using at all because of the money. Like this goes back to the money, right? Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: like the reason I would have been great in Congress is because I would have just been in there like the sand in the oyster, like really trying to irritate some things because Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: because Because I I also want people who live in the fourth congressional district to know that it doesn't have to be like this, right? And also I want people to do their research because I think and it doesn't take a lot of time. It takes a lot of curiosity. I wonder what would happen if I called all of the people running for office in my district and asked them questions about things that are important to me. It would take about 30 minutes. You wouldn't get half of them wouldn't even answer. But I can't tell you, Carlos, the number. I had the con I was The congressional phone number was my phone number. So when people would call the campaign, they'd get me. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. They're calling your phone. Dr. Melissa Bird: And they're like, Why are you answering the phone? I'm like, you call me. And they're like, is this really Melissa Burton? I'm like, yeah. And they're like, well, I'm your constituent and I have some questions. I'm like, okay. And they're like, what? And I'm like, this is a job interview. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: I'm interviewing for a job to represent you. What do you want to know? And That level of connection, we haven't seen that in politics in decades, decades, decades, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, for real. Dr. Melissa Bird: decades. But that's the point of the job. The point of the job of being an elected official is to be accessible to your constituents, not accessible to your donors. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Your representative, yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: And I would, I would go door knocking and people would cry. They would open the door and start crying and be like, my God, what are you doing here? And I'd be like, I don't understand why we're so shocked that a congressional candidate is showing up at your door. I had one guy tell me I've lived here for 25 years. My rep my congressional representatives have never come to my door once. I'm all, I thought we were running for Congress. Why aren't you showing up at people's doors? You know why? Because they're hanging out with their donors and their billionaire donors that are shoving Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): They're over there. They're hanging out with other friends that are disconnected. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: money down their throats and making them rich. Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yep. Telling them to ignore you, the normal people. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. And I I couldn't do advertising. I didn't have the budget for it. I raised a hell of a lot of money from my first go. I was very proud of myself. And I did really good. And I think that's the thing. Like, if you do your, if you just read about, call them, email them, and if they don't respond, that is also an answer. If you don't hear back from someone who's running for Congress or running for city council or running for school board, that is also an answer about how they're going to lead. It's not because Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: they're too busy. It isn't. Because if they are in office, they've got someone running that office. Someone should get back to you. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And we know the House of Representatives, them sons of bitches only worked a hundred and forty seven days last year. So we know you have time. We know you have time. Dr. Melissa Bird: Dude, I just saw that. How are you making a hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars a year to work a hundred days? And get lifetime insurance. Come the hell on. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You know what I'm saying? Dr. Melissa Bird: y'all get to work Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I wanted to get back to the point that you said campaigns are a job interview. Imagine going to a job interview and straight up lying. Dr. Melissa Bird: Which isn't legal, by the way. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: It's not legal. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Like From the president on down, and you can stop wherever you want. So far it seems like everyone on the campaign trail is a liar. Dr. Melissa Bird: You know, I think it's so this is the other thing too, like to be an informed voter doesn't require very much. Right? But it it does yeah, Google. Google. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Go to a website. You have a phone, you have an iPad, and you're ri and we know you're Netflixing and chill. Do this instead of chilling. Dr. Melissa Bird: Listen, listen, yes. And the thing the thing too is like people are like, well, I didn't know you were running. And I'm like, the it's called Google, yo. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: Like, I've been running for a year and a half. It's not like it's not like I and the mainstream media does not cover people who are challenging incumbents at all. At all, at all. No Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yep. Yep. Dr. Melissa Bird: matter what you do, they don't care. And so So it's and it's up to us to do the work. And I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: I personally think it's some of the funnest work. Maybe I'm a goober. I don't know. I love talking to people who are running for office. I love asking them questions about themselves. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Same. Same. Dr. Melissa Bird: And they're they are working for us. That means Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: we can it doesn't matter if they are elected or running. It is their literal job to talk to us as their constituents. And I truly believe that that's how we change this. It doesn't matter if you are a high school dropout or you have a damn PhD, MD, JD, whatever the hell. It doesn't matter your education level, if you are over the age of 18 and eligible to vote, then you should be asking these questions. Or you should at the very least be calling your elected officials and saying, hey, I think that was an amazing vote. Good job. Thank you so much for voting that way. Or hey, that was a shit vote. That's how this is how this is going to impact my family. That sucked. Please don't do that again. You can do that with your elected officials. If you want to try it out and don't want to go all federal about it, try it out with your city council. But the thing about it is, Carlos, that I think I think people we have created entire generations of people who don't know that they're so their elected officials are supposed to be accessible. And I think that's a problem. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I think you are one thousand percent correct. 'Cause I talk to Dr. Melissa Bird: And you know what? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): you gu I talk to you guys and I forget that that's a thing that we can do. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah, and corporations don't want us to remember that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: Corporations want us to be so sucked into the damn phone, to the computer in our hands, scrolling like this. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: Dude, I walked by fifteen men who were on their construction break. They were doing construction on a building next to where I work. Fifteen of them. Not one of them was speaking to each other. They all had their phones in front of their faces like this, and they were all doing this. I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Well the good news is they won't cat call you. They Dr. Melissa Bird: was like waiting for the cat call. I mean, I know I'm a middle-aged woman, and I know I have surpassed some beauty standards for some people, but some of those men were my age, and I looked Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You know? Dr. Melissa Bird: pretty cute that day. But like it was so weird that they were quiet, if they were silent. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: It was so I noticed it. Like I was all. This is bizarre. Like none of them are talking shit. None of them are doing that man thing. And the same thing happens when you teach like at a university. Like if you walk into the hall before like a 100-level class with 500 students gets out, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: it's dead silent. Cause everyone hundreds, hundreds of 18-year-olds, hormones are raging on Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: their phones. Silence. It's the weirdest shit I have ever experienced in my life. And that's the thing, is like, it's like this double-edged sword, right? We're we're so Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: we're more informed than we've ever been in the history of ever. My kids, I still make my kids use the paper dictionary. They're like, mom, can I just Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): nice. Dr. Melissa Bird: look it up online? I'm all, no, this is a gift for my college roommate when I turned 18, because I turned 18 while I was in college. This is a gift for my college roommate when I turned 18. It's sitting right over there. And she signed it and you can use this to look up the word. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: They're like, You are so old fashioned and I'm like, I don't care. Learn to use a book. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): The mechanics the mechanics behind it. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yes. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): We d you don't wanna lose it. You don't wanna lose the mechanics behind doing these things. Dr. Melissa Bird: No and did you see that s yes, did you see that story about the what was the Project Panama or some shit where they took all the books and took them to an Amazon warehouse in Vegas and destroyed all of them? Dude, you gotta look this up. Did you see this? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Say it again. Dr. Melissa Bird: It's I think it's called Project Panama or something like that. I'll find it and send it to you if I can find it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Is that like where they're shearing off the the binding of the book and feeding AI? Dr. Melissa Bird: Yes. And then they're destroying the books. But these are old books. These are like first editions, can't get them anywhere else books. Like we're talking rare books. We're talking books that you can't get anywhere. They're gone. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I've started thinking about that. Like, think about this. Think about all the fossils that we have. Think about the Dead Sea Scrolls. Think about everything that the pyramids and and all the wonderful things that they're finding under those bad boys. Dr. Melissa Bird: I think they should leave them alone. But yeah. Sorry. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. But there's a lot no, it's fine. And it seems like yet again they're trying to detach us from earth. They're putting goggles on our Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. From the big mama. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): eyes. They're they're everything is digital. I can draw, but I can draw my ass off on paper. Dr. Melissa Bird: Listen, yes. Like, did you know? Here's the thing that I'm really worried about because they're not teaching cursive anymore. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: My kids, when their grandma writes them a note, they have to have me read it. I got thumbs up Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): They're lost. Dr. Melissa Bird: for that one. My daughter, that thumbs up was really good. It's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I don't know what that is, but hey, that's cool. Dr. Melissa Bird: like, talk about that some more, please. my daughter graduated from high school this year and got a card from her Her Girl Scout troop leader with money and like a gift, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: she couldn't read her card. She had no idea how to read the cursive. They're not going to be able to read letters from the 1800s. They're not going to be able to Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: do research because they don't know how to read cursive. And that to me, that's an we're going to lose that intellectual curiosity and wonder. And that that goes back to what I was Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And it's just so easy. Dr. Melissa Bird: saying about voters. We have to be more curious. Why aren't we Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: curious about these people who are running our lives? Why aren't we curious about the Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. The food that they're feeding us. Dr. Melissa Bird: food that they're feeding us? Why aren't we curious about what would happen if I I wonder I start I start a lot of my days, like I wonder what what's gonna happen today. I have my calendar. I know I'm doing an interview with Carlos, but I don't know what's gonna happen during that interview. I wonder what what's gonna happen. Today. If we just started being more curious about our daily existence, it would root us into the earth, it would connect us with more people, and it would put us in a position where all of a sudden, Carlos, we're having real conversations with people instead of isolating ourselves. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): fun conversations at that. Yeah. That's one of the Dr. Melissa Bird: So fun. So fun. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): that's what one of my one of my favorite things about doing this podcast is it's such a wonderful exercise in connecting with people and Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): just to see if the dumb shit that I believe is like really the shit that we need to be believing, you know? So like Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I talk to you guys and I check I check the I check the homework. You know what I mean? Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I checked the work of the b on the problem just to make sure that I'm still on the right path, but Dr. Melissa Bird: See, and this is the beauty of the internet. Like these these things are the things that I love about the internet. You know what I miss? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Right. I like to say this is what it looks like when the adults take over the internet. Dr. Melissa Bird: You know what yeah, and you know what I miss? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): L Dr. Melissa Bird: Just picture it. Nineteen ninety two, University Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: of Alaska Fairbanks, sixty below, putting every single layer. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What was on the radio? What was it? What ninety two? Was it all the small things, that stuff? hell yeah. Okay. Dr. Melissa Bird: I don't know because I was busy listening to Metallica, so the you know I'm a Metallica girl. Time forever. Forever. I've been to so many Metallica concerts. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Listen, I went to a Metallica concert. I still brag about it. Dr. Melissa Bird: mm. Yeah, the Black album, still my favorite. I know. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: Very controversial. It's either Killem All or the Black Album. But anyway, so I'm loading everything on to walk to the library with my roommate A OK, 'cause that's her initials. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: And we would go and sit in the library in a room full of forty monitors. With 40 other people talking on the internet. And it was Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: the MS DOS with the green, the black and the green, the green letters. And we were just Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: talking. I don't know if any of that shit was real or who the fuck I was talking to, but I didn't care because it was the most fun. Like this was before Yahoo. And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: it was amazing. That's when the internet was good. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I'm glad you said that 'cause I got in trouble. I was in a relationship and I got the copy serve C D and I put it in the computer Dr. Melissa Bird: yeah. huh. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and I started talking to some girl in funny enough, Oregon. Dr. Melissa Bird: huh. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And we're sending messages back and forth, back and forth, and that got me in trouble. That and I'm like it It's hard to explain. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's not the fact that I was talking to a girl. I prefer talking to ladies. but it's not that I was talking to a lady, it's that I was sending a message from Chicago to Oregon and she was replying back instantly. It affected me so much that I became a what was my title? Creative technologist. That's probably the best way to describe Dr. Melissa Bird: Uh-huh. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): my career. I I leveraged Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah, I I just Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): technology to create things and and it blew my mind. Dr. Melissa Bird: And you know what? We were actually honest back then too. Where are you? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: I'm in France. cool. I'm in New Zealand. cool. I'm in Alaska. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: cool. We actually told the truth about our locations back then. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. And I don't even think this is back even before people turned into assholes and the bullying online and stuff like that. Like we used to have fun. Dr. Melissa Bird: Well yeah, we weren't getting bo we were asking each other real authentic, curious questions. We were researching each other. It was like a great Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. We're getting to know each other. Dr. Melissa Bird: anthropological experiment. Like we were like, I was like, what what music do you listen to? Like, what do you do over there in New Zealand? Like, you know, like we were asking each other questions. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Have you heard of Metallica yet? Dr. Melissa Bird: Right? Listen. we were like talking, and you know what the other thing was? If you didn't resonate with someone in a chat, you were like, Wish you luck. Have a great day. Talk to you later. Bye. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: And then I'm gonna I'm gonna leave and go back to my dorm room and you know, like we weren't mean to each other. No. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): No. It was d yeah, that was before the the assholes stepped in. Dr. Melissa Bird: it's so weird. I can't believe this is the timeline we live in, honestly. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Especially this one. Especially Dr. Melissa Bird: So weird. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): this one. Where where it in a it black and brown people have been telling you guys for a very long time, listen, police are coming Dr. Melissa Bird: Listen. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): to get us. And everybody is like, you gotta keep your hands on ten and two. what was it that you did? And I'm no, I just got pulled over. It just that's just how I Dr. Melissa Bird: Dude, I went yes. I was driving through Idaho to go see a friend. I was actually going to to I was doing a presentation on missing and murdered indigenous women and I was going to the reservation in Idaho and I was driving back and I was I do, I love it. It's great. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You pick all the easy assignments, don't you? Dr. Melissa Bird: for the Episcopal Church too. So it was extra fun because I was Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: making them like reckon with their history. 'cause I'm an Episcopal lay I'm an Episcopal lay preacher and a pagan. So let all your all your just allow all of your people to have their head explode about that. And we can talk about it later. But my friend was like, Susie, she was like, she's like, can you be careful driving back? And I was like, what are you talking about? And she's like, you're a native woman driving through Idaho. And it like didn't occur to me at all that I could possibly have a problem. It like like even though I knew I could have a problem, but I I think Also because I can pass, right? I'm like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: it's okay, it's the middle of winter. I'm not as brown as I am in the summer. It's okay. But like, like we have been telling you, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): My credit score is high as fuck right now. Dr. Melissa Bird: We have been telling you. Like, and and like we have to listen, black and brown people, because ice is a 500-year-old legacy. It's just wearing a different uniform. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: We used to call it the United States Army when we were marching people along the trails of tears in every state in the Union. Every state has a trail of tears, by the way. It's not just in Oklahoma. Like like this is ice has been happening this whole time. It's it's this is the legacy of black and brown people, y'all not listening. We're still doing slavery. We'll Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: just call it something else now. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. And Dr. Melissa Bird: Got prison. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and think of it like this. ICE isn't for us. They got regular police. They have regular police for fucking up black and brown people. Ice Dr. Melissa Bird: That's right. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): is ice is for checking white folks. They've been but regular police have been killing black and brown people. Dr. Melissa Bird: That's right. That's right. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So now now they're getting away with it. And look at all the Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): the big name that and I understand that there's a lot of black folks that have been br and brown folks that have been killed by ice, but the big ones up on top are those good white folks. Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm. All those well meaning do good or white folks. Yep. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yep. It's horrible. This whole thing is just like I think the thing that drives me just, I'm just continually stunned on a daily basis that we are not holding Congress accountable for letting this continue. Like I still Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Isn't it Isn't it insane? Dr. Melissa Bird: like literally, I woke up the other day and I was like, I cannot believe this is still the president. Like he's still the president. He has violated so many federal laws, like the checks and balances that exist. Like the founding fathers have gotta be rolling over in their graves at this point a million times. Like they've just got to be Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Did you see the latest? Dr. Melissa Bird: constantly turbulating because the laws that are being violated and the fact that Congress is not using the rules of Congress to Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: check the executive branch is beyond Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: my it's beyond my comprehension of all of these conservative people you keep referring to, right? These these constitutional, like super Like this is our constitution, and we got to follow the constitution. Well, we are not, we are violating the constitution. We are in constant violation of the constitution. And Congress is in constant violation of its purpose to check the damn executive branch because this was the point. The point of the House of Representatives and the United States Senate. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Is to keep this shit from happening. Dr. Melissa Bird: Congress is supposed to stop what's happening, and they're like, la la la. I'm just gonna Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Dr. Melissa Bird: take another million dollars from Palantir. Everything's fine. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: Pay no attention. That's the thing about people on the extreme Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Then that's specifically Dr. Melissa Bird: left and the extreme right is like, y'all, we are violating eight bazillion rules of Congress right now. And the Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Is it? Dr. Melissa Bird: fact that any and this extremism is not gonna help anything. It doesn't matter. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): At all. I saw a post the other day that said we've been paying for bombs for so long that it seems like socialism when the money actually goes to help its citizens. Dr. Melissa Bird: my God. So when I was running for Congress, people are like, Are you like some sort of radical leftist? And I was all, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: I don't think so. Why? And they're like, Well, you keep talking about like livable wages. How's that gonna help small affect small businesses? And I was like, Well, it seems to me that we could take some of this bazillions of dollars that we're using to kill other people to like. Fund gives small businesses incentives and offsets to be able to pay people 25 bucks an hour to live and provide them with health insurance. Like it, that actually won't cost $1.5 billion a day, turns out. It'll cost a couple hundred million, you know. But it won't cost, but it'll work. And then small businesses will thrive. But Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. Sure. And we know it'll work. And we know it will because it works in Israel. Dr. Melissa Bird: you know what? When small businesses thrive, then guess what happens? Corporations get worried. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. They're power. That's where the power struggle happens. Dr. Melissa Bird: Right? Which is why we're not doing that. But then all the small business owners would be like, that'd be a great idea. And I'm Yeah. And they're like, that seems really radical. And I'm all, I don't, I don't comprehend how taking care of it apparently, you know, and listen, I love me some Jesus. I did not raise I was not raised in church. I didn't go to church until like eight years ago, but but the Episcopal Church got me and I'm not letting go. And I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: I I keep thinking about social justice, Jesus, not like White supremacist Jesus as he's been made out to be, but like actual, you know, the black guy. And I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: keep thinking about like this idea of how radical it is to love your neighbor. Like that is a radical sentiment. And if that is radical, then I I guess I am. But like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Does. Dr. Melissa Bird: I like, I always thought of myself as more of a moderate. And people these days are like, those are some radical ideas. Are you some sort of socialist? And I'm all, no, I just really want my kids to be able to take care of themselves in a Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: way that is makes them thrive instead of just living barely anywhere. You know what? I just Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: want I just want for my fifteen year old not to walk into the kitchen and open the fridge and go, Mom, do you think we could go grocery shopping today and have to look at and say, no, not until next week. There's stuff in the cupboard for you to eat if you want to. That's been our life for months since I ran for Congress because running for Congress, this is why we don't have working class people in Congress. Because it took so much. I did not put one dollar of my own money into my campaign. I fundraised my face off. But I couldn't work, especially towards the end. I couldn't run my business. I couldn't, I didn't have time to go Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: out, slip up clients, and do all the shit that I normally do. I didn't have it in me. Because I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: was running for Congress. And this is why we don't have working class people running in the highest levels of government. Because it's so time consuming. But we it didn't used to be like that. You used to be able to run for Congress and still work. And that all has changed. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Before it was a career, yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Before it was a career. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And now think of think of that. If that's your career path, we only have a limited amount of seats. So Dr. Melissa Bird: And apparently you're only working 130 days or 140 days out of the year. Jesus, what a boon. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What an incredible gig. Dr. Melissa Bird: Damn. I don't remember what I was talking about before, but there we are. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. I'm trying to I'm I'm trying to put all the pieces Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): in place in my head. Dr. Melissa Bird: I should have warned you, Carlos, that talking to me is like drinking from a fire hose. I gotta get going and I'm like, and then and then Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's kinda it's it's it's kinda like that for me too. And then I'd I'll paint the picture and then I go off on a tangent and forget the point that I was supposed to be making. That happens to me all the time. So Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah, I I feel ya. Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): But at the end of it all look for example, I'll use me as the as the point of the story. I went to school, or I I went to the army, got some of my school paid for, but I still needed to take out a loan from a place that Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): got busted for predatory lending and and then I had a whole career and then I finally, finally, like maybe fifteen, twenty years after graduating, I finally paid off my school bills and then Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): technology changed and Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I was left out in the cold. And no one is hiring because, you know, mm, I have a pretty cool resume and I'm expensive. Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So come to find out technology has been leaving America here. Normal people. Technology is leaving America. Everything is being built in India and or China. Everything in Silicon Valley is contractors and stuff like that. It's not Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): just Mexicans coming over here. Sorry, Mexicans for saying that like that, but it's not just Dr. Melissa Bird: No. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): folks from south of us coming to take jobs and shit like that. Dr. Melissa Bird: No. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): If there is a job, it will it's basically on the table for chopping. If there is a job, that's why. When I the more I talk to you guys, we t we talk about more of a scaffolding. So when things do change, you land into the scaffolding that you can rebuild yourself back up. I personally, I'm gonna go for the rest of my days, I'm gonna be YouTube university and I'm gonna figure it out step by step. I am never going to school again. I don't want the bills. Dr. Melissa Bird: No. I'm not encouraging Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I just don't want the bills. Dr. Melissa Bird: I'm a former college professor and I'm not encouraging my kids to go to college. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, and that's a double edged sword on that one too. If you don't go to college, then that's yet another excuse to not hire you for jobs that aren't there. Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Well, and I think that's why this is I think the other thing that that I'd love for people to get curious about is we we heard all this hollow blue about Project 2025, but it is the blueprint. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: And I know it's 800 pages and I know it's long, but you could pick a topic, search it and find it and read about what they want to do, right? Everything Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: they're doing to our national parks right now and our lands, like that, that's all in there. Everything they're doing to our veterans, that's all in there. Everything that they are doing with our education system, that's all in there. But I will tell you, like one of I think the most devastating things is cutting the two places that we have cut that that really worry me is the USDA and the small business administration. Because and that is willful and intentional, right? If you make cuts to the USDA, then all the small new and beginning farmers and ranchers grants, all the infrastructure for 4 H, all the infrastructure for extension, all the small and mid-sized farmers lose all of their supports. And that means we only end up with corporate farms. It's on purpose, right? You get Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: rid of 4-H, you don't have kids who are selling pigs anymore. Right? I went to our fair. Our fair is a little dinky and goobery, but I grew up in Utah, so I'm used to a big fair, right? And I went to our fair here in Benton County, and I happened to be walking by this adorable pig, the fattest pig I've ever seen in my life. And the girl who raised him in 4H was walk was coming to say hi to her pig. And I talked to her. I was like, hey, what's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): huh. Dr. Melissa Bird: your name? Why do you do this? What do you love about Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: it? What frustrates you about it? What do you enjoy about it? Like we had this huge conversation, Carlos. And she's like, no one's ever talked to me before. And I was like, well, that's weird. But I'm on the internet. that and she's like, nobody ever talks to me. And I was like, that's so strange. And she said, she's she said, you know, we're really worried because they're cutting 4 H. And I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do this again because I might not have the support. And that that's generational farming, right? Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: most of our farmers in the United States are over the age of seventy five. Their kids don't want to come back to the farm because they've moved into the cities or the suburbs and so they're not involved Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: with farming anymore. And that's the problem. That's the problem. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And then when realize that there's a lot of these farmers that are losing their farms and then someone like a JD Vance has a vested interest in it's like the Airbnb of farms. I've Dr. Melissa Bird: no, it's horrible. That thing is so awful. And then and then that thing is awful. And then and then what I was saying about the small business administration, all of the grants and funding for women in business, because of course diversity is bad, right? Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ha ha Dr. Melissa Bird: new and beginning small business grants, like all of these grants for people to be able to engage in innovative, like none of these Silicon Valley Bros will be Getting the will be getting the funding that they could have gotten 20 years ago through the small business administration. Like, and Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: and that's on purpose so that these conglomerates and these corporations and these hedge funds and these venture capitalists can keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And that is not sustainable growth. And if we are truly going to be moving on the side of fiscal conservancy and conservative politics, then we have to be supporting. The USDA and the small business administration. But that's not what fascism looks like, right? And we say fascism and it becomes a buzzword. But if you actually look at what we are doing in this country, this is not democracy. It isn't. And if we want to live in a country that is run on a democracy with three branches of government, then perhaps the three branches of government should be held accountable for their actions. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): How much of the house's silence is due to the Supreme Court cutting their legs out from under them? Dr. Melissa Bird: I I I think that's part of it, but I think it's more the corporate I think it's more the money. I think I think the House of Representatives and the United States Senate has forgotten who they work for. I really do. I really believe that is true. I believe that because of all this corporate money and because of Citizens United, because of those things, I believe that the United States Congress is more beholden to its donors than it is to its voters. And I think that's the problem. And I think until the the regular, everyday American human being who is just trying to figure out how the hell to put gas, I can't remember the last time I had enough money to fill up my gas tank. I cannot remember. And I drive a Camaro, like I drive a bitch in Camaro, yo. Like, I need money. I need my gas in there so I can go where I need to go. But like, I don't remember the last time I filled up my tank. Like, I remember maybe it was a month or two ago, and I had enough money to fill up my tank with gas. And I was like, my god, a full tank of gas. What is happening? Right? I made it with my part-time Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I finally made it. Dr. Melissa Bird: job. Like, like, but but. It is so bizarre to me that we have normalized that. And I think we have normalized that because we don't know that it's okay for us to hold Congress to task. We don't know that it's okay for us to hold Congress to task, Carlos. And it is. We should be, it's not just about the damn postcards and the protests and all that shit. That is just that it they don't care. They don't care Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): We don't. Dr. Melissa Bird: that we are doing no kings rallies. They don't care. You know what we should be doing? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): They don't care so much that they made that little goofy ass video of Trump pooping on on the protesters. Literally don't care. Dr. Melissa Bird: It that is ridiculous. Read Project 2025 and figure out how it's gonna impact your life. And if you don't care about the fact that they are taking away our public lands, our public lands and national parks, by the way, which were created by Theodore Roosevelt to get rid of all the Indians off of that land so they could just displace all of them. The most sacred sites in our country are national parks. So even if you are just a little bit racist, you probably should be supportive of the fact that we have national parks. So that we can keep all the native people off the land, because that was the point in the first place. Except for those uppity native people got together and decided to create a national monument so they could protect the damn land. But like, I get a little antsy about this stuff because I cannot believe, I cannot believe that conservatives are not concerned about the fact that we are about to old growth cut, clear cut our forests. They don't grow back and all that. All those logs are going to China. They're not going to benefit us. It's not going to help us build. They're going overseas. And in the meantime, we're going to cut down the damn redwood forest. We learned this lesson, y'all. Just because y'all don't know history, don't know that we learned this lesson. You can't cut old growth. It causes fires. Old growth suppresses fires. If you love that hunting lodge of yours, stop promoting the old growth logging. If you want to go out there and kill all the elks and all the bisons and all the everything's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Exactly. Exactly. the bear. Yep. Dr. Melissa Bird: Bears. Are you fancy hunting people with all your it's so weird. We live in the weirdest time frame, Carlos. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Isn't it strange? Dr. Melissa Bird: So weird. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You can you can make a statement To someone who leans left or right and the very next person will give you the contradictory answer to the thing that you you and this other person just agreed to or whatever. It d it's crazy. Dr. Melissa Bird: Mm-hmm. That's why I think we need more curiosity and wonder. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: And if all these people are gonna be out here Bible thumping, then they need to really look at what Jesus actually taught. Because my Jesus, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Curiosity. Dr. Melissa Bird: the Jesus that I learned about is the Jesus who was like, huh. I wonder what would happen if I actually listened to that lady who wants me to help her daughter. I don't agree with her and I think she's kind of whackadoodle noodle, but I wonder what would happen if I listened to her. you're gonna feed four thousand more people. So you, buddy. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I wonder what would happen if I fix the vision of this guy who's just sitting there and and then not even charge him a copay. Dr. Melissa Bird: Ha weird. Can you imagine if we all just paid a flat rate? That'd be crazy. I wonder what Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That would be nuts. Dr. Melissa Bird: would happen if I didn't charge these people seven hundred and thirty dollars a month to pay their back taxes. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Or I wonder what it would look like if we decoupled health insurance from a from from Dr. Melissa Bird: From employment. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): employment, 'cause in that way, when all the jobs go to India, China, and Indonesia, well then that way you won't have interrupted service and maybe just maybe you'll be able to keep your health up so that way you don't get sick and spend all your money because all the jobs, again, all the jobs are leaving. It doesn't matter the job, the jobs are leaving. Dr. Melissa Bird: It's so this whole thing, this us versus them, either or rigid thinking completely. takes away from the reality that we live in the both and. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: I can both disagree with you and love you at the same time. I can both, I can both disagree with your politics and find it, our conversations fascinating. This zero-sum, all or nothing, us versus them, polarizing game that we are playing does not account for the fact that most of us are just sitting here in the middle, wanting community, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: you know, wanting to figure out how to make a difference, to make a difference for everyone. That was literally Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Wanting to make it better for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Melissa Bird: my tagline was a better life for all. And it didn't no matter your politics, because the more all of us thrive, the better our future generations are gonna be. Yeah. I believe that Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And Dr. Melissa Bird: to be true. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and learn to mind your own damn business. Dr. Melissa Bird: Learn to read cursive for Christ's sake. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's you. Dr. Melissa Bird: Listen, if anybody takes anything away from this, bring cursive back. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Bring cursive back. I know that you Dr. Melissa Bird: Just kidding. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): have to get ready for something here in a little bit. You want to take the next couple minutes and explain to folks who you are and why should why should they find you online and then where Dr. Melissa Bird: Ha ha ha. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): they can find you online. Dr. Melissa Bird: An amazing, talented, funny, wonderful, incredible Dr. Melissa Bird. You can find me online at drmelissa bird dot com. That's drmelissa bird dot com. I know you're gonna put all my socials and all the things in there. you can also look at what I did with a campaign at Melissa Birdfor Congress dot com. I think what we did with the campaign was really incredible. And I pop in there every once in a while and say magical things. my website's awesome. You should totally go look at my disco ball cowgirl hat. It's pretty epic. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): She does have a r pretty incredible picture Dr. Melissa Bird: I I'm on all the social media. I think that Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): up there. Dr. Melissa Bird: it is, it's incredible. I think the thing I really want people to know is that is that I'm a writer, I'm a public speaker, I'm a preacher, I'm a teacher. and you can find me anywhere online. I have a new book out called Leading from the Heart, which is about engaging in intuitive leadership and community building and really changing the way we think about how we connect with each other in leadership. and what I want to encourage everybody who watches this to think about is that if we continue to fall into this trap that if I if if they get theirs, then I won't have mine. we are gonna continue to explode as a country. And what I would love to encourage people to do. Is not just get more curious about what's happening, but I really encourage you to get in touch with your elected officials and just introduce yourself. So one of the things I used to teach my students, I used to teach social work students social justice advocacy. And one of the things they had to do as part of my class is they had to introduce themselves to their elected officials from the city level school board all the way up to the top, the federal level, by sending an email. And in the subject line it said, I am your constituent. Because that's important, because that's how you get through the red tape for a lot of folks. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Dr. Melissa Bird: And then you just introduce yourself. Hi, my name is Melissa Bird. I live in your district. I have three kids. I'm married to a disabled veteran. And these are the top three things that are the most important to me. and those change over time, by the way. Like, you know, it used to be it I think it will always be reproductive justice and reproductive rights, always, always, always and forever, because that's where it all starts. for me personally. veterans issues are very critical to me. Education is really important to me, not just for my own children, but our future generations. The ADA, people with disabilities, is a big high priority for me. and then I would say if you ever want to talk or have coffee or chat, here's my phone number, here's my mailing address. I'd love to talk with you sometime. And that's it. And you know how many times I heard back from so many of my elected officials. Every time I move, I send that email. And I've heard back so or a new election, when I get new elected officials in office, I'll send the same email. And I can't tell you the number of people I've talked to and built relationships with because of that. So I really want to encourage people to know it really is that easy. Some people aren't going to respond, but that tells you something about who they are and who their staff. And I think if we start talking to our elected officials when we're not mad at them, they might start working again. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): No. How about it? Dr. Melissa Bird: and I really would love y'all to come and follow me. I've been a little bit slackery on my podcast. I have a podcast called The Thinness Veil, and it's all about the limal spaces and the in-betweens. and I talk to a lot of really fascinating people about a lot of different things. And I really I just I I really instead of losing hope, No matter who you are politically, if you are angry right now, it's with it that's on purpose. They're doing it to us on purpose. Ask someone what they need. You know, tell someone what you need. reach out to people, you know. I think the way we deal with this loneliness epidemic is that we remember that we are meant to be connected, even if we don't agree with each other. And I think it's the way we're gonna change things because we are all part of an intricate woven. tapestry of life that is rooted in this beautiful, amazing creation we call the planet. And we are not separate and above it, but we are of it. And I just hope that we all can remember that before it's too late. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I love it. I love it, Doctor Melissa Bird. Dr. Melissa Bird: Thank you, Carlos. It's been a pleasure chatting with you today. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I I was excited and I'm now I'm even more excited for the future of our little friendship here 'cause you're cool and Dr. Melissa Bird: Thanks. You're cool too. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And thank you, Tabitha, for actually putting this Dr. Melissa Bird: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): together. Shout out Tabitha. That's that's my girl. Dr. Melissa Bird: Tabitha's amazing. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): hope you guys enjoyed this. and with that, we're out.