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Steelers-Giants: Surprising Connections · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_10: Hi everybody, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
0:05
SPEAKER_10: My name's Tim Hannon, and I have a co-host with me.
0:08
SPEAKER_04: I'm Steve Wirt.
0:10
SPEAKER_10: The resplendent Steve Wirt.
0:13
SPEAKER_04: Resplendent.
0:14
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
0:15
SPEAKER_04: You dipped into the uh twenty dollar vocabulary words there.
0:18
SPEAKER_10: That's my New Year's resolution.
0:20
SPEAKER_10: That's the word of the word of a day.
0:37
SPEAKER_10: So the the Stewarters and the New York Giants are are two flagship NFL franchises.
0:44
SPEAKER_10: They both existed for a real long time.
0:46
SPEAKER_10: They've both had a lot of success.
0:48
SPEAKER_10: They've won 10 of the 60 Super Bowls played at the time of this recording.
0:53
SPEAKER_10: But uh beyond just the success on the field, there's also a lot of similarities and connections.
0:58
SPEAKER_10: I used to always say, Steve, that the Giants were kind of like the NFC Steelers.
1:04
SPEAKER_04: That's interesting.
1:05
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, and I and I think they they as we get into this, we'll kind of see why I always thought that.
1:11
SPEAKER_10: Um so this episode will deep dive into those connections.
1:16
SPEAKER_10: And before we get into this, I have to acknowledge a gentleman named John Morley, who's a friend and a loyal listener of the show, who not only reached out to me with this idea, but also put together a bunch of research as well, which made my job preparing for this super, super easy.
1:30
SPEAKER_10: So, John, thank you so much.
1:34
SPEAKER_10: So let's kick this off by talking about the ownership history of both franchises, because that's where I think these two teams are basically mirror images of each other.
1:44
SPEAKER_10: And this is really the story of two families, the Maras and the Roonies.
1:50
SPEAKER_10: Tim Mara founded the Giants in 1925.
1:53
SPEAKER_10: He paid$500 for the team and he named them the same name as the baseball team in town.
1:59
SPEAKER_10: Art Rooney founded the Steelers in 1933.
2:02
SPEAKER_10: He paid$2,500 for the team and he named them the same name as the baseball team in town.
2:07
SPEAKER_04: My goodness.
2:08
SPEAKER_04: Well that wasn't even ten years later and he paid like quadruple what Tim Mara play play paid, huh?
2:15
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, Art Art Rooney's on record uh saying that he thought he paid way too much.
2:20
SPEAKER_10: But
2:21
SPEAKER_04: I kind of agree with him.
2:24
SPEAKER_04: Thank God for that winning day at uh Saratoga, huh?
2:28
SPEAKER_10: Yes, yeah.
2:29
SPEAKER_10: Uh so so um both of these guys end up having sons who end up working for the team.
2:37
SPEAKER_10: And and both Tim Mara and Art Rooney don't just like nepotism their sons into the family business.
2:42
SPEAKER_10: They they work as ball boys and do jobs like that before they become more senior members of the front office.
2:49
SPEAKER_10: And when Tim Mara and Art Rooney pass away, the teams then get passed down to sons.
2:56
SPEAKER_10: And and here's where things get a little messy for the Giants.
3:00
SPEAKER_10: When Tim Mara dies in 1959, he leaves control of the team to two sons, Wellington Mara and Jack Mara.
3:08
SPEAKER_10: When Art Rooney dies in 1988, he leaves control of the team to just one son, and it's Dan Rooney.
3:14
SPEAKER_10: And the reason this ends up being a bad thing for the Giants is because Jack Mara, one of those sons, dies a few years after his father, and now Timothy J.
3:25
SPEAKER_10: Mara, Jack's son and Tim's grandson, owns half of the team.
3:29
SPEAKER_10: And Timothy J.
3:30
SPEAKER_10: and his uncle Wellington have a very public falling out about how to run the team.
3:36
SPEAKER_10: They fight about which players to sign, they fight about who should be the general manager, and by the 1980s, Steve, not only do they stop talking to each other, but there's a physical partition set up in the owner's box at Giants Stadium to keep the two families separated.
3:53
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
3:54
SPEAKER_04: That's uh that's something, huh?
3:57
SPEAKER_04: Uh wow.
3:58
SPEAKER_04: Maybe explains why the Giants weren't very good during the 70s and 80s, I guess.
4:04
SPEAKER_10: Well, yeah.
4:04
SPEAKER_10: They they I mean they got good during the latter 80s.
4:07
SPEAKER_04: The later 80s, yeah.
4:09
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, and and in 1991, Timothy J.
4:11
SPEAKER_10: sells his 50% to the Tish family, and they're still part owners today.
4:16
SPEAKER_10: Uh the Rooneys, of course, end up taking on minority partners as well.
4:20
SPEAKER_10: Wellington Mara passes away in 2005, and his son John becomes the owner.
4:25
SPEAKER_10: Dan Rooney passes away in 2017, and his son Art II becomes owner.
4:30
SPEAKER_04: Wasn't John the one that didn't like Saquon Barkley?
4:35
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah.
4:36
SPEAKER_04: So uh wow, the uh the Apple fell far away from the tree on that, I guess.
4:43
SPEAKER_10: Well, well, it's interesting because well, first off, let's let's let's just recap real quick.
4:47
SPEAKER_10: If you're keeping score at home, and if you kind of put this whole mess with the brothers off to the side, both franchises have had three generations of owners.
4:56
SPEAKER_10: So the first generation was Art Rooney and Tim Mara.
4:59
SPEAKER_10: The second generation was Dan Rooney and Wellington Mara, and then the third and current generation is Art the Second and John Mara.
5:07
SPEAKER_10: And that third generation, kind of to Steve's point, uh I think both of those owners have faced a lot of criticism in recent years over their respective franchises not being what they once were.
5:19
SPEAKER_10: Agreed?
5:20
SPEAKER_04: Uh the Giants have been way worse than the Steelers, but for sure, but something for sure, but but they both, yes, they both faced criticism.
5:31
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
5:32
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
5:32
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, and and there's a lot of people that a lot of like you're not your dad, you're not your grandfather kind of kind of talk around both of those guys.
5:41
SPEAKER_10: So I think they both still have a lot to put.
5:43
SPEAKER_04: I think in Art's case he might be his grandfather.
5:45
SPEAKER_04: He's certainly running the team like his grandfather.
5:49
SPEAKER_10: That's that's fair.
5:51
SPEAKER_10: That's fair.
5:53
SPEAKER_10: So so pretty unique for uh two NFL franchises that just have that like three generations of family ownership, right?
6:03
SPEAKER_10: But hang on, because this gets really interesting.
6:07
SPEAKER_10: Not only do these families mirror each other through those three generations of ownership, but they're also deeply intertwined.
6:14
SPEAKER_10: So get this.
6:15
SPEAKER_10: Tim Mara and Art Rooney are not just into running football teams, they are also heavily invested in another in the business of another sport.
6:24
SPEAKER_10: And Steve, you kind of referenced it earlier with your Saratoga reference, right?
6:28
SPEAKER_04: They like they like to go and play the ponies.
6:31
SPEAKER_10: They like to play the ponies.
6:32
SPEAKER_10: And in fact, Tim Mara is a bookmaker.
6:36
SPEAKER_04: What a shocker.
6:39
SPEAKER_10: And and the chief, like like Steve alluded to, uh, he's he's a really avid handicapper.
6:44
SPEAKER_10: In fact, he's he's said to have this just kind of uh unreal ability to handicap races and predict which horses have the best chance to win.
6:54
SPEAKER_10: And here's a great story from Art Rooney Jr.'s book.
6:59
SPEAKER_10: So one day in 1937, Tim Mara and Art Rooney Sr.
7:04
SPEAKER_10: meet for lunch at a place called Annie Moore's in New York.
7:09
SPEAKER_10: And Tim Mara, who who, you know, as we said, he's a bookie, he gives Rooney a tip on a horse.
7:16
SPEAKER_10: And Art likes the tip, and he's like, Okay, yeah, put 50 on it.
7:21
SPEAKER_10: Well, Art's pregnant wife, Kathleen, is with him, and she's furious.
7:26
SPEAKER_10: She's like, uh, you know, we're about to have our third kid, and oh, by the way, we're in the middle of a depression.
7:32
SPEAKER_10: What the heck are you doing betting$50 on a horse?
7:35
SPEAKER_10: And they get into an argument over this, and the chief tells her, you know, stay out of it.
7:40
SPEAKER_10: I know what I'm doing.
7:41
SPEAKER_10: And also, I didn't bet$50.
7:44
SPEAKER_10: I bet$50,000.
7:46
SPEAKER_04: Oh, wow.
7:47
SPEAKER_10: Which is the equivalent, Steve, of about$1.1 million in today's money.
7:53
SPEAKER_10: $50.
7:54
SPEAKER_04: Is that five dimes?
7:55
SPEAKER_04: No, I think that's fifty dimes, isn't it?
7:58
SPEAKER_10: That's that's a lot of dimes, I can tell you that.
8:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
8:01
SPEAKER_04: Because I think five dimes is five thousand, isn't it?
8:04
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
8:04
SPEAKER_10: I I don't, I don't, I don't know the lingo, I'm sorry.
8:07
SPEAKER_04: Sorry.
8:07
SPEAKER_04: Never bet never bet a bet a pony, huh?
8:10
SPEAKER_10: No, definitely not.
8:12
SPEAKER_10: Uh but yeah, I mean, if you can imagine his wife was upset about fifty dollars, I can't imagine how upset she was over the equivalent of a million dollars.
8:20
SPEAKER_10: Well, guess what?
8:22
SPEAKER_10: Guess what?
8:22
SPEAKER_10: The horse wins.
8:24
SPEAKER_10: So if Art Rooney bet the equivalent if he bet the equivalent of a million, you can only imagine what the win.
8:30
SPEAKER_04: I don't know what the yeah, I don't know what the payout.
8:32
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I don't know what what was the horse going off, five to two?
8:36
SPEAKER_04: I mean, even if it's going off like a conservative, like, you know.
8:40
SPEAKER_04: Even if it's a conservative, like two to one, he doubled his money.
8:44
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, for sure.
8:46
SPEAKER_10: Uh Tim Mara is unfortunately gonna have trouble paying off that bet.
8:51
SPEAKER_04: I would imagine uh two mil.
8:53
SPEAKER_04: Even let's say it's two mil.
8:55
SPEAKER_04: Let's say he doubled his money.
8:56
SPEAKER_10: It's two mil.
8:57
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
8:57
SPEAKER_10: Even that's still still a lot for uh a bookmaker uh uh for any bookmaker.
9:05
SPEAKER_10: Uh but the the chief and Tim Mara are friends, and the chief is sympathetic.
9:11
SPEAKER_04: Over over two million dollars.
9:13
SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
9:15
SPEAKER_10: Well, I don't uh Art Rooney Jr.
9:17
SPEAKER_10: never says if he gets paid or not, or or if he maybe he like gave him like lots of time to pay it or whatever.
9:23
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, who who knows?
9:24
SPEAKER_10: But he the chief does say, I'll tell you what, if we end up having a boy, because remember his wife was pregnant, he says, we'll name it Tim.
9:32
SPEAKER_10: Oh, well, that's fair.
9:34
SPEAKER_10: Sure enough, they have a boy and they do name it after Tim Mara.
9:38
SPEAKER_10: Tim Rooney grows up and ends up running the family's horse racing business, which is kind of ironic because you know his origin story basically goes back to a horse race.
9:48
SPEAKER_10: And and Tim Rooney and his wife have a daughter named Kathleen, and when she grows up, guess who she marries, Steve?
9:56
SPEAKER_04: One of the Mara's, I think.
9:58
SPEAKER_10: Yep, Tim Mara's grandson, Chris.
10:00
SPEAKER_10: So Art Rooney's granddaughter marries Tim Mara's grandson, and Kathleen and Chris have two daughters who you might recognize, Kate and Rooney Mara, who are both pretty accomplished actresses.
10:15
SPEAKER_04: That's crazy.
10:17
SPEAKER_04: That that's quite the uh is Mara are the Mara's Irish, because I get the feeling there's a lot of Irish going on there, too.
10:27
SPEAKER_10: Don't know, but are you a fan of either of those actresses, Steve Kate Kate and Rooney?
10:31
SPEAKER_04: Uh who's the one that was in the uh uh the girl with the dragon tattoo?
10:35
SPEAKER_04: That was Rooney.
10:36
SPEAKER_04: That was Rooney, okay.
10:37
SPEAKER_04: She was pretty good.
10:38
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, she was in like social media.
10:40
SPEAKER_04: I think I've watched the show called A Teacher, and that had Kate Mare.
10:44
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
10:45
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
10:46
SPEAKER_04: I can never keep my Mara' straight.
10:51
SPEAKER_10: I remember Kate from like House of Cards.
10:54
SPEAKER_04: See, I never watched that show.
10:56
SPEAKER_04: I I don't have that I don't have Netflix.
10:58
SPEAKER_10: I remember I I saw Megan Levy.
11:00
SPEAKER_10: She was in that too.
11:02
SPEAKER_10: Uh here is Kate Mara talking about who she would root for in a Giants Stealer Super Bowl.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: What happens if they ever face in the Super Bowl?
11:12
SPEAKER_01: Has your family ever had this conversation?
11:14
SPEAKER_00: Um people have people have asked that, but uh we just win then, no matter what.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Like what it doesn't matter.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: You're definitely going to the trophies down, Mark.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: For us.
11:31
SPEAKER_04: So that that yeah, that's the one that I I recognized her from the show I watched.
11:36
SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
11:37
SPEAKER_04: Netflix.
11:38
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
11:38
SPEAKER_10: There you go.
11:39
SPEAKER_10: I thought you just said you didn't have Netflix.
11:41
SPEAKER_04: Not Netflix.
11:42
SPEAKER_04: I meant Hulu.
11:43
SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
11:44
unknown: Okay.
11:45
SPEAKER_04: I misspoke, Tim.
11:46
SPEAKER_04: I'm sorry.
11:47
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
11:49
SPEAKER_04: All the streaming services are the same to this old dog, so I don't know.
11:54
SPEAKER_04: Netflix, Hulu, Disney Plus, I don't know.
11:57
SPEAKER_04: Whatever.
11:58
SPEAKER_04: Tubi, I don't know.
12:01
SPEAKER_10: So yeah, lots of uh lots of strong connections between those families.
12:06
SPEAKER_10: Uh what about players though?
12:09
SPEAKER_10: Are there any are there any player connections?
12:12
SPEAKER_10: Well, Steve, did you know that a total of 84 players have suited up for both the Steelers and the Giants?
12:19
SPEAKER_04: I wonder if they're is this common?
12:21
SPEAKER_04: Is there any other NFL teams with this many players?
12:25
SPEAKER_04: I wonder.
12:26
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, that's a good question.
12:27
SPEAKER_10: I mean, g given the the similarities of, you know, we talked about the families.
12:34
SPEAKER_10: One thing that we didn't talk about is they they both have, over the course of the history, have sort of tended to run things the same way.
12:41
SPEAKER_10: You know, I mean they're they're both more they're both two of the more, I would say, stable franchises.
12:48
SPEAKER_10: You know, when you look at a franchise like the Jets or the Falcons or the, you know what I mean?
12:53
SPEAKER_10: The Titans, you know, who fire their coach every two years, those kinds of franchises.
12:57
SPEAKER_10: The Steelers and Giants typically aren't run like that.
13:00
SPEAKER_10: I will say the Giants obviously have had a lot more coaches than the Steelers, but but uh that's why I always said they're kind of like the NFC Steelers.
13:09
SPEAKER_10: And and again, they've won four Super Bowls, we've won six Super Bowls.
13:13
SPEAKER_10: Um uh I I think they're both well-run franchises, even if both of them aren't, you know, at the top of their game necessarily these days.
13:24
SPEAKER_10: So 84 players, we're gonna deep we're gonna dive into a handful of kind of some of the more interesting ones.
13:30
SPEAKER_04: I think we should go through all 84, Tim.
13:33
SPEAKER_10: I think people would be tuning out right about now if we did that.
13:37
SPEAKER_10: Let's uh let's start with a guy named Russell Wilson.
13:42
SPEAKER_04: Oh, there you go.
13:43
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, he's a he's a Super Bowl-winning quarterback for Seattle.
13:46
SPEAKER_10: He gets traded to Denver in 2022.
13:49
SPEAKER_10: The Broncos give him a huge contract extension, and that doesn't work out so well for the Broncos.
13:56
SPEAKER_10: So the Steelers end up signing Wilson on the cheap in 2024, and that doesn't work out real great either.
14:03
SPEAKER_04: He has a couple good games.
14:04
SPEAKER_04: He has three, four good games.
14:06
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah.
14:07
SPEAKER_10: He he absolutely did, and it looked like he had brought a spark to the offense and he was throwing those moon balls, but by the end of the season, um I think he would have been a better backup than starter, maybe.
14:21
SPEAKER_04: I think is where he kind of was in his career there.
14:24
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, I I agree with that.
14:25
SPEAKER_10: He would have been a guy that if you needed him to spot start, you know, a two games when somebody was hurt, I think he'd he would have done that, at least that year that he was on the Steelers.
14:34
SPEAKER_10: Now, fast forward to 2025 when the Giants are looking for a quarterback, a veteran quarterback, so they can slowly break in their rookie draft pick.
14:46
SPEAKER_10: And boy, if you thought late late season 2024 Russell Wilson was bad, I I dare you to watch the Giants game from 2025 because he's he's just downright unplayable.
14:56
SPEAKER_10: I think even as a backup, uh I I think he's I think he's done at this point, Steve.
15:01
SPEAKER_10: What do you think?
15:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I don't know what happened to him, but he fell apart.
15:06
SPEAKER_04: Like he was considered one of the best quarterbacks in the league for a while, and then he just really fell off a cliff in Denver.
15:14
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
15:14
SPEAKER_04: So maybe Seattle knew something the rest of us didn't.
15:18
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
15:18
SPEAKER_10: Well, yeah, I mean, they definitely came out uh looking, you know, very smart after all that, for sure.
15:27
SPEAKER_10: Uh Russell Wilson, not the only quarterback to play for both teams.
15:31
SPEAKER_10: About 30 years earlier, the Giants draft a guy out of Ohio State by the name of Kent Graham.
15:40
SPEAKER_10: He hasn't really pan out in New York, and in the spring of 2000, the Steelers are fed up with Cordell Stewart, so they make the dubious decision to sign Graham to be their starting quarterback, and that doesn't go well.
15:53
SPEAKER_04: He was kind of statue.
15:55
SPEAKER_04: He was kind of more statue than quarterback.
15:58
SPEAKER_10: He sure was.
15:59
SPEAKER_04: I think that the the the play it did him in it was that sack in Cleveland.
16:04
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:06
SPEAKER_10: So you beat me to it.
16:08
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
16:09
SPEAKER_10: Graham will Graham will forever be remembered for this the ending of this game in Cleveland, which I think, Steve, if you're gonna rank the top five most brutal regular season losses in Steeler history, not like playoff or championship game or Neil Adon in the Super Bowl, if you're just sticking to regular season, I feel like this one has to be in the top five most brutal losses.
16:31
SPEAKER_10: And here it is.
16:32
SPEAKER_09: Third and goal 14 seconds to go.
16:34
SPEAKER_09: What's the one thing they can't do on third down, Thomas?
16:37
SPEAKER_09: You cannot take a sec.
16:38
SPEAKER_09: You can't hold a football.
16:39
SPEAKER_09: No, but he does take a sec.
16:40
SPEAKER_09: Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.
16:43
SPEAKER_09: There's no timeouts.
16:44
SPEAKER_09: Get the field goal team on Graham.
16:45
SPEAKER_09: No, I'm gonna hold though.
16:46
SPEAKER_09: I'm no down there.
16:48
SPEAKER_09: The tick tick the gun goes up.
16:51
SPEAKER_09: And the Cleveland Browns have won at home for the first time since 1995.
16:57
SPEAKER_09: How can it happen?
16:58
SPEAKER_09: The clock ran out.
17:01
SPEAKER_04: Wow, I didn't realize that was the first time the Browns have won at home since 95.
17:05
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, and that was the year two thousand.
17:07
SPEAKER_10: Now, granted, they were out of the league for a few years, but still.
17:11
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, it it it it's so if you're not familiar with that game, the Steelers have the ball at like the eight-yard line of Cleveland.
17:19
SPEAKER_10: It's a chip-shot field goal to send the game into overtime, but they decide they're gonna run one more play because you know they had time to run one more play.
17:28
SPEAKER_10: So you just throw it into the end zone.
17:30
SPEAKER_10: If nobody's there, you just throw it out of the end zone.
17:32
SPEAKER_10: Kent Graham steps up into the pocket and gets like just crumples down to the ground in a sack, and time runs out.
17:39
SPEAKER_10: They the time runs out with them on the eight-yard line, and they can't kick a field goal.
17:43
SPEAKER_10: It it it I was I I can't tell you how furious I was at the time, Steve.
17:48
SPEAKER_10: I don't think I've ever been more furious after a Steeler game in my entire life.
17:52
SPEAKER_10: It was it was beyond unacceptable, ridiculous.
17:57
SPEAKER_10: And and the Steelers end up actually having a pretty good year that year and missed the playoffs by one game.
18:02
SPEAKER_04: Gee, that would have been a key game to win there.
18:04
SPEAKER_10: Yep.
18:05
SPEAKER_10: When they had it.
18:06
SPEAKER_10: So that's again, like I said, that's that's Kent Kent Graham's unfortunate legacy in Pittsburgh.
18:13
SPEAKER_10: Uh he only lasted that one season, but two years later, the Steelers are again fed up with Cordell Stewart and again turned to a former Giants quarterback.
18:22
SPEAKER_10: This time it's a guy named Tommy Maddox.
18:25
SPEAKER_10: He fares, he fares definitely better than Graham.
18:28
SPEAKER_10: In fact, we did a whole episode about Maddox, which we'll link from the website if you want to hear more about that crazy season.
18:34
SPEAKER_10: Uh, but yeah, in the early 2000s, the Steelers were very into former Giants quarterbacks.
18:39
SPEAKER_04: I didn't remember, I remember him playing for Denver more than New York, but hey.
18:45
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, he he started his career in Denver.
18:47
SPEAKER_10: He was supposed to be always like successor.
18:50
SPEAKER_10: And what happened was Dan Reeves.
18:52
SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's right.
18:53
SPEAKER_04: Dan Reeves was the coach of the Giants.
18:55
SPEAKER_04: Right.
18:55
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:56
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
18:56
SPEAKER_10: So when Dan Reeves went to New York, he he believed in Maddox and he went and got Maddox and brought him to New York.
19:02
SPEAKER_10: But he he was a bust there as well.
19:05
SPEAKER_10: So, but he had his he had his one big big season for the Steelers.
19:09
SPEAKER_10: So definitely better than Ken Cram.
19:12
SPEAKER_10: But that bar's not very high.
19:15
SPEAKER_10: Uh here's a guy you may not have realized is part of this Steelers Giants connection.
19:20
SPEAKER_10: It's running back John Frenchie Fuqua.
19:25
SPEAKER_04: It has to be post-Steelers, I'm assuming.
19:28
SPEAKER_10: No, Fuqua actually starts his career in New York in 1969.
19:33
SPEAKER_10: And the Giants at that time, they want a veteran quarterback to back up Fran Tarkinton.
19:39
SPEAKER_10: So they offer the Steelers a trade.
19:42
SPEAKER_10: They will give the Steelers Frenchie Fuqua and linebacker Henry Davis for Steelers quarterback Dick Shiner.
19:49
SPEAKER_10: The Steelers agree to that trade because they really wanted Henry Davis, the linebacker.
19:54
SPEAKER_10: Fuqua is just a throw-in.
19:57
SPEAKER_10: But of course, Fuqua becomes legendary in Steelers lore because of a little play you may have heard of called the Immaculate Reception.
20:05
SPEAKER_10: And Fuqua was, as everybody knows, the intended receiver on that play, and he gets hit by Jack Tatum.
20:10
SPEAKER_10: The ball bounces to Franco Harris, and the rest is history.
20:14
SPEAKER_10: So, Steve, the Immaculate Reception probably never happens if not for the New York Giants.
20:19
SPEAKER_10: And Dick Shiner.
20:21
SPEAKER_10: And Dick Shiner.
20:22
SPEAKER_10: Gotta give Dick Shiner credit too.
20:24
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
20:25
SPEAKER_10: Fuqua is also quite the character.
20:27
SPEAKER_10: He's known for some uh interesting fashion choices.
20:31
SPEAKER_04: He had the goldfish shoes, didn't he?
20:34
SPEAKER_10: He had so so uh when he wore the goldfish shoes, he would he would uh wear them with this outfit that was like he he called it a French count outfit.
20:45
SPEAKER_10: So it consisted of a suit, a musketeer hat, a gold cane, lavender cape, wine red knickers, and then those those clogs with the fish inside of them.
20:56
SPEAKER_04: Did you ever watch the Simpsons with Disco Stew?
20:59
SPEAKER_04: He kind of looked like Disco Stew.
21:02
SPEAKER_04: What Disco Stew had the goldfish instead.
21:06
SPEAKER_04: He was disco stew.
21:11
SPEAKER_10: Uh as the count, he had a valet who was Franco, and Franco's job was to keep the cape off the ground.
21:17
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
21:18
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
21:18
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
21:19
SPEAKER_10: Uh uh he also had a what do you call it, a caveman look.
21:23
SPEAKER_10: It was a fur poncho with a bow tie and skin tight jumpsuit with a black sombrero.
21:29
SPEAKER_10: Yikes.
21:30
SPEAKER_10: The 1970s, Steve.
21:31
SPEAKER_10: What a time to be alive, huh?
21:33
SPEAKER_10: I guess.
21:36
SPEAKER_04: You say so, Tim.
21:40
SPEAKER_04: I was only alive for four years of it, so I missed out on some of the fashions, I guess.
21:45
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah.
21:46
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, we we we were a little young to have skin tight jumpsuits and black sombreras, but we could always bring them back.
21:56
SPEAKER_10: Uh how about the linebacker Henry Davis, the guy that the guy That the Steelers actually wanted in that trade.
22:02
SPEAKER_10: He spends four years in Pittsburgh, starts every game in 1971 and 1972, and he makes the Pro Bowl in 1972.
22:10
SPEAKER_10: Davis's career ends before the 1974 season under kind of odd circumstances.
22:16
SPEAKER_10: So before that season, the NFL Players Association goes on strike during training camp.
22:22
SPEAKER_10: And while Henry Davis and the other veterans are out, a rookie named Jack Lambert gets to take all the reps.
22:30
SPEAKER_10: And the Stewards are like, we think this guy might be better than Henry Davis.
22:36
SPEAKER_10: Davis also sustains a serious neck injury and concussion when the players do come back.
22:40
SPEAKER_10: And the Stewart's end up waving him, and he never plays in the NFL again, which is kind of shocking for a guy who was only in his seventh season who had just made the Pro Bowl two years earlier.
22:50
SPEAKER_10: His wife is also suffering from Bell's palsy, so some people speculate that he just wanted to do something with less time away from her at that point.
22:58
SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
23:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's that's really sad.
23:01
SPEAKER_04: Poor Henry Davis.
23:03
SPEAKER_04: I guess he made a little bit of it.
23:04
SPEAKER_04: They didn't make a lot of money back then.
23:07
SPEAKER_10: Well, and that's that would be another good what if if if if the if there's never a strike that training camp, you know, does Jack Lambert get get the reps that he got?
23:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
23:18
SPEAKER_10: Because he was what a second or third round pick, fourth round pick?
23:22
SPEAKER_10: I can't remember.
23:23
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, in 74.
23:25
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
23:25
SPEAKER_10: So I mean he probably works his way into the lineup eventually, but maybe not.
23:30
SPEAKER_10: You know, who knows?
23:31
SPEAKER_10: So uh another guy who has significant stents with both teams is a wide receiver by the name of Plexico Burris.
23:41
SPEAKER_10: The Steel Horses picked Burris with the eighth overall pick of the 2000 draft.
23:45
SPEAKER_10: Uh Steve, how would you describe Plex's career with the Steelers?
23:49
SPEAKER_10: Kind of up and down.
23:50
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, sure, up and down.
23:52
SPEAKER_04: He had he had some big catches, but they had some big drops, like the one in the championship game where he dropped a was that a touchdown or a two-point conversion?
23:59
SPEAKER_04: I think it was a good one.
24:00
SPEAKER_04: I think it was a touchdown, but yeah.
24:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
24:04
SPEAKER_04: But he he made some big plays too.
24:05
SPEAKER_04: He he spiked the ball when he wasn't down.
24:08
SPEAKER_04: I mean did a lot of crazy things.
24:12
SPEAKER_10: So yeah, yeah, that play that Steve is referencing is when it was in Jacksonville when he was a rookie.
24:18
SPEAKER_10: And uh the the whistle had never blown.
24:21
SPEAKER_10: Jacksonville picks up the ball and starts running the other way.
24:23
SPEAKER_10: And they showed that for like years and years, but I think the Steelers were up by a lot in that game at the time.
24:29
SPEAKER_10: It didn't I remember it didn't like hurt anything, but it was still a memorable mistake.
24:35
SPEAKER_10: Uh yeah, Plex spends five years with the Steelers.
24:38
SPEAKER_10: I have a stats here, Steve.
24:40
SPEAKER_10: 261 receptions, 4100 yards, and 22 touchdowns.
24:44
SPEAKER_10: So not bad, but not eighth overall pick kind of uh impact.
24:50
SPEAKER_04: He probably has a much better career with the Giants, quite honestly.
24:54
SPEAKER_04: Mainly because of one play.
24:56
SPEAKER_04: The play that nobody remembers in that Super Bowl.
24:58
SPEAKER_04: Nobody remembers that play.
25:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because of the play that happened before it.
25:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
25:03
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
25:04
SPEAKER_10: So so he goes to New York, and what Steve's talking about is he makes the game-winning catch in Super Bowl 42 to stun the undefeated New England Patriots.
25:14
SPEAKER_10: Uh, and and like Steve said, what the reason that you don't see that play a lot, because it happens with, I think, 40 seconds left or something to that effect.
25:22
SPEAKER_10: But before that, David Tyree had made that helmet catch on third and forever.
25:27
SPEAKER_10: And that's really what set up the Burris touchdown.
25:30
SPEAKER_10: So you always see the David Tyree catch, but it's it's Plex that as the game-winning touchdown.
25:35
SPEAKER_10: Uh to again, to that, you know, you want to talk about shocking.
25:40
SPEAKER_10: For them to beat the the Patriots were just unbeatable that year.
25:43
SPEAKER_04: They were so they had lost to the Patriots earlier in the season.
25:46
SPEAKER_10: The last I think it was the last game of the regular season.
25:49
SPEAKER_10: It was it was like three weeks before that.
25:52
SPEAKER_10: It's not all Roses and Super Bowls in New York, though, for Plex.
25:56
SPEAKER_10: In 2008, he goes clubbing with a Glock tucked into his belt, and while he's walking up some steps, the gun starts to slide down his leg, so he kind of like uh instinctively reaches for it, and he pulls the trigger and accidentally shoots himself in the leg.
26:13
SPEAKER_10: Um and and you know that that's pretty embarrassing.
26:18
SPEAKER_10: Unfortunately for him, it's also a violation of New York's strict gun laws, and Burris ends up serving 20 months in prison, which to this day I feel like is beyond.
26:27
SPEAKER_04: I can't believe I I forgot he did that much time in prison.
26:30
SPEAKER_04: For what?
26:31
SPEAKER_04: For having a gun.
26:32
SPEAKER_04: I mean I there's if he he would have been better off if he pulled the gun out and shot somebody, he would have got less time.
26:40
SPEAKER_10: I mean, seriously, it it it I think that was a you know, we're real serious about you're not allowed to bring guns to to crowded nightclubs or or anywhere else, which is whatever you can agree or disagree with that law or those kinds of laws, but I think that was just a you know, you had somebody that was a celebrity, so we'll make an example out of them, and then people will really be scared to bring a gun anywhere, which I don't think it would have it even would have even had that impact.
27:09
SPEAKER_04: Because there's never been another shooting in New York after that.
27:12
SPEAKER_10: Right, exactly.
27:13
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, that totally eradicated violence in New York City.
27:16
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah.
27:17
SPEAKER_10: I that's that's what I mean.
27:19
SPEAKER_10: I just 20 months for that.
27:20
SPEAKER_10: That that was I think that was totally unfair.
27:23
SPEAKER_10: I mean, he made a mistake.
27:24
SPEAKER_04: I think like a fine and maybe like a month or two in prison would have been.
27:28
SPEAKER_10: I would have said a fine and like some hefty community service.
27:31
SPEAKER_10: I think that would have been fair.
27:32
SPEAKER_04: Because the only one that really got hurt was himself.
27:35
SPEAKER_10: Right.
27:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
27:36
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
27:37
SPEAKER_10: I anyway.
27:38
SPEAKER_04: And it wasn't like he was being careless and like waving it around or something.
27:42
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
27:43
SPEAKER_04: I mean, maybe he was being careless.
27:44
SPEAKER_04: I don't know why, like, gun safety, man.
27:47
SPEAKER_04: Why do you carry one in the chamber there?
27:49
SPEAKER_04: He doesn't have one in the chamber, he probably doesn't shoot himself.
27:53
SPEAKER_04: Almost and he almost shot off little plexico there.
27:57
SPEAKER_04: So I mean you don't want to do that.
28:00
SPEAKER_04: If anything else, you know, sweatpants and firearms sound like a bad combination.
28:06
SPEAKER_10: Also, also not having the safety on.
28:08
SPEAKER_04: Also having it tucked into your yeah, and having a bull and one in the chamber.
28:13
SPEAKER_04: Like that, that's just like common sense 101.
28:16
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
28:16
SPEAKER_04: I digress.
28:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
28:19
SPEAKER_10: Again, very, very dumb on his part, did not in no way deserve 20 months in prison.
28:26
SPEAKER_10: So after his release, Burris signs with the Jets, and in 2012, he rejoins the Steelers.
28:32
SPEAKER_10: Steve, here is the final ever play in the career of Plexico Burris.
28:37
SPEAKER_02: It's still a one-possession game at this point.
28:41
SPEAKER_09: Lopez Burger by Zone again.
28:45
SPEAKER_09: Touchdown.
28:46
SPEAKER_09: And look who Plexico Burris as Pittsburgh goes on his lead.
28:57
SPEAKER_04: What year was that?
28:59
SPEAKER_04: 2012.
29:01
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
29:01
SPEAKER_04: And that's his last play.
29:03
SPEAKER_10: That's his last ever play in the NFL.
29:04
SPEAKER_10: Yep.
29:05
SPEAKER_04: A touchdown.
29:06
SPEAKER_04: Good for him.
29:07
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
29:07
SPEAKER_04: Was that like at the end of a meaningless season, probably?
29:11
SPEAKER_10: Uh 2012, yeah.
29:12
SPEAKER_10: It would have been a season they didn't make the playoffs.
29:14
SPEAKER_04: So good for Plex.
29:17
SPEAKER_04: Is that Joe Hayden he scored on?
29:20
SPEAKER_04: It was.
29:20
SPEAKER_04: Huh?
29:21
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
29:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
29:22
SPEAKER_10: Yep.
29:22
SPEAKER_10: Uh-huh.
29:23
SPEAKER_10: Good catch.
29:25
SPEAKER_10: Uh yeah, Plex, one of those guys that that I think people kind of grew tired of when he was here.
29:32
SPEAKER_10: But then when he came back, you know, people kind of were excited he was back.
29:36
SPEAKER_10: And it was nice to see him be able to finish his career here.
29:40
SPEAKER_10: Alright, here's a guy you may not be as familiar with that played for both teams.
29:44
SPEAKER_10: It's quarterback Frank Filchalk.
29:47
SPEAKER_10: He's drafted by Pittsburgh in 1938.
29:50
SPEAKER_04: I remember that distinctly.
29:51
SPEAKER_10: Do you remember that 38 draft?
29:53
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, it was.
29:54
SPEAKER_10: We're gathered around the radio listening and telling me.
29:56
SPEAKER_04: Like, oh, yeah.
29:58
SPEAKER_04: Frank Philchalk's the bees.
30:04
SPEAKER_10: He plays for Washington after Pittsburgh.
30:07
SPEAKER_10: Then he in 1946 he ends up with the Giants.
30:10
SPEAKER_10: And he has a real good season for New York.
30:12
SPEAKER_10: In fact, he leads them all the way to the NFL championship game against the Bears.
30:17
SPEAKER_10: However, hours before that game, it comes out that a gambler had offered Phil Chalk and another teammate$2,500 in other incentives to throw the game.
30:29
SPEAKER_04: What were the other incentives?
30:31
SPEAKER_04: Do I even want to know?
30:32
SPEAKER_10: It was it was like no, it was like um off-season like jobs that you know were like I I thought it like you know booze in his bait.
30:41
SPEAKER_04: Well, no, prohibition was long over by then.
30:44
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah.
30:45
SPEAKER_10: It was it was that kind of stuff.
30:46
SPEAKER_10: It was like, oh, you get this offseason job where you don't have to show up or something.
30:51
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, right, right, exactly.
30:52
SPEAKER_10: Which at the time, like a football player now, that wouldn't do anything for them, but at the time these guys didn't make a whole ton.
31:00
SPEAKER_10: This is a huge scandal because it comes out, like I said, hours before the game.
31:04
SPEAKER_10: Like on game day.
31:05
SPEAKER_10: Imagine like if Super Bowl Sunday it came out that gamblers were trying to intervene and get players to lose on purpose.
31:13
SPEAKER_10: And there's actually talk that they're gonna have to cancel the NFL championship game.
31:18
SPEAKER_10: Wow because we don't know if this is like on the up and up or not.
31:22
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, legit.
31:24
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
31:25
SPEAKER_10: So so both of those players deny it, and Phil Chalk is allowed to play in the game.
31:31
SPEAKER_10: Uh, he ends up throwing two touchdowns, but he also throws six interceptions and a 24-14 loss to Chicago.
31:38
SPEAKER_04: He collects his winnings at the window.
31:43
SPEAKER_04: Save your receipts, save your tickets.
31:46
SPEAKER_10: After the game, the police do a full investigation.
31:49
SPEAKER_10: They determine that Philchalk did not accept the bribe.
31:53
SPEAKER_10: But just like the Roger Goodell era today, you don't necessarily need to be convicted of something to be punished by the league.
32:00
SPEAKER_10: And because Philchalk failed to report it and almost put the marquee game of the season in jeopardy, Commissioner Burt Bell suspends him for the next three seasons.
32:11
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
32:12
SPEAKER_04: Well, better than lifetime.
32:15
SPEAKER_04: He could have shoeless Joe'd himself there.
32:18
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, I mean, I'll ask you the same question that I asked about Plex.
32:22
SPEAKER_10: I mean, is that too harsh?
32:24
SPEAKER_04: Probably not.
32:25
SPEAKER_04: I I don't know.
32:26
SPEAKER_04: If if there must have been something going on there.
32:30
SPEAKER_04: Like, why are you hanging around gamblers?
32:32
SPEAKER_04: Why are you even entertaining this?
32:37
SPEAKER_04: Alex Karras had this happen too.
32:39
SPEAKER_04: Like when he later, when he was with Detroit, didn't he get suspended?
32:42
SPEAKER_04: But it was only for a whole year.
32:44
SPEAKER_04: For one year, yeah.
32:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
32:45
SPEAKER_04: That was the time he had to do Webster.
32:47
unknown: No, that was that wasn't.
32:50
SPEAKER_10: I guess what the NFL was upset about was you know, if if if there's guys approaching you saying they're gonna, you know, we're gonna give you all this money to sort of the game, then you need to let other people know about that because if you're gonna say no, then they're probably gonna go to the next, you know.
33:06
SPEAKER_04: Right.
33:06
SPEAKER_04: The whoever the the running back you just can't take a chance with something like this.
33:11
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I don't know anymore.
33:13
SPEAKER_04: Maybe people just put up with it.
33:14
SPEAKER_04: I figure I I don't know.
33:16
SPEAKER_04: People are gonna get pissed if they think the games are fixed, and especially if you're betting money and losing money or waiting for the game.
33:23
SPEAKER_10: Well, in in in 1946, at that time, I mean, we're we're 20 years out from the Black Sox, but but still, I mean, that's still fresh in everybody's mind.
33:31
SPEAKER_10: And I I don't think people understand that when the Black Sox thing happened, like sports in general was that that was that was a fork in the road moment for professional sports.
33:42
SPEAKER_10: Because if if you can't have a sporting event be legitimate, then you've you've lost every fan, every single fan.
33:50
SPEAKER_04: Well, yeah, it becomes the WWE at that point.
33:53
SPEAKER_10: Right.
33:54
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
33:55
SPEAKER_10: So so a lot of people were sensitive to this stuff.
33:58
SPEAKER_10: Now, now if you're Phil Chalk, maybe you're thinking, hey, this guy approached me.
34:04
SPEAKER_10: I thought he was nuts.
34:05
SPEAKER_10: I said, no way, and I just went on my merry way.
34:07
SPEAKER_10: I didn't think that you know it mattered, or or maybe even thought I'd get in trouble if I reported because then they were going to ask me a bunch of follow-up questions, and I just want to focus on the game.
34:16
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, I don't know.
34:18
SPEAKER_10: I don't know.
34:19
SPEAKER_10: Here's a quote from um here's a quote from Frank Felchak.
34:23
SPEAKER_10: He said, quote, the NFL needed a scapegoat and I was it.
34:26
SPEAKER_10: They dealt me one off the bottom of the deck, they took the easy way out.
34:32
SPEAKER_04: Okay, what was the hard way out?
34:34
SPEAKER_04: Like suspending the whole Giants team?
34:37
SPEAKER_04: I I don't know what to tell you.
34:39
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, I don't know.
34:40
SPEAKER_10: Uh three seasons seems like a lot for for a guy that didn't accept a bribe.
34:45
SPEAKER_04: No, but I don't know.
34:47
SPEAKER_04: I don't blame them for doing like something harsh.
34:50
SPEAKER_10: I they had to send a message.
34:52
SPEAKER_10: They they had to make sure that no one ever thought about not only even thought about taking a bribe, but didn't even think about not reporting a bribe.
35:00
SPEAKER_04: So I think the suspension outlived Burt Bell.
35:04
SPEAKER_10: No, it it didn't.
35:05
SPEAKER_10: And and it wasn't you said you know it wasn't a lifetime ban.
35:09
SPEAKER_10: It wasn't like Burt Bell announced it was a three-season suspension.
35:12
SPEAKER_10: He just suspended him indefinitely, and then after three seasons, they finally reinstated him.
35:17
SPEAKER_10: I think he went up to Canada or something like that to play in the meantime, and then he came back for like one game, I think, with the Colts, and he was his career was kind of over after that.
35:26
SPEAKER_10: So unfortunate for that guy.
35:28
SPEAKER_10: Maybe it wasn't fair, but that's what happened.
35:34
SPEAKER_10: Uh Jim Clack is a guy we talked about in our Dark History of the Steelers offensive line episode, is one of the many former linemen who died way too young.
35:42
SPEAKER_10: He's the starting left guard for the Steelers in Super Bowl nine.
35:46
SPEAKER_10: A few years later, the Steelers trade him to the Giants, where he becomes their starting center.
35:52
SPEAKER_10: Unfortunately for him, his most famous moment with the Giants.
35:55
SPEAKER_04: I think I know what's gonna happen here.
35:57
SPEAKER_10: It's this play.
35:59
SPEAKER_06: From the end on, Bizarch can just fall on the football, and there is nothing the Eagles can do.
36:04
SPEAKER_06: I'm sure that's what it'll do if the Giants buy any kind of uh risky handoff uh be very close at this point.
36:10
SPEAKER_06: All they've got to do now is control the ball.
36:13
SPEAKER_06: And Bazarchik! handles the football and picked up by Herman Edwards.
36:17
SPEAKER_06: 15, 10, 5, pack Bad Egos.
36:20
SPEAKER_06: I don't believe it.
36:21
SPEAKER_06: I don't believe it.
36:23
SPEAKER_06: I do not believe what has occurred here, ladies and gentlemen.
36:29
SPEAKER_04: I had a feeling the miracle of the Meadowlands was gonna come up in this conversation somehow.
36:34
SPEAKER_10: Is that is that the biggest on-field blunder in NFL history?
36:38
SPEAKER_04: It's gotta be.
36:39
SPEAKER_04: It's uh gotta be top three, right?
36:41
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I I can't think of another one.
36:45
SPEAKER_10: So so if you're not familiar with that play, the the Giants have the game won.
36:50
SPEAKER_10: The Eagles are out of timeouts, uh, Joe Fazarchek is a quarterback for the Giants.
36:54
SPEAKER_10: All he has to do is take a knee and let the clock run out.
36:58
SPEAKER_04: See, I don't think they took knees back then, though, right?
37:01
SPEAKER_04: They would just like kind of run around and fall down, wouldn't they?
37:04
SPEAKER_04: Because that's what the announcers were saying.
37:06
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, so so there was no victory formation, right?
37:10
SPEAKER_10: Which you might think is ridiculous, but no one had invented that yet.
37:14
SPEAKER_04: Well, after this play they did.
37:16
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
37:16
SPEAKER_10: Well, what what I've seen from like old Steeler games, Terry Bradshaw used to like take the snap, take like two steps back and just like crumple to the ground.
37:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
37:25
SPEAKER_10: So so they would they could do that.
37:26
SPEAKER_10: They could just fall flat on their face and you know, then the play's over.
37:30
SPEAKER_10: Uh but the Giants don't have a formation or a play in their playbook like that.
37:39
SPEAKER_04: So why would you just call like a quarterback sneaker or something?
37:43
SPEAKER_10: Like I I don't know.
37:45
SPEAKER_10: I it it it's it's mind-boggling that that that that's how that game ended.
37:50
SPEAKER_10: It's mind-boggling that it was allowed to happen.
37:52
SPEAKER_10: But it does, it happens that the Giants lose to the Eagles.
37:56
SPEAKER_04: Well, he like tries to hand it to the running back and it gets all messed up.
38:00
SPEAKER_04: It's like the running back wasn't expecting it.
38:03
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, the running back was Larry Zanka.
38:06
SPEAKER_04: Oh, that was wow, nice.
38:07
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
38:08
SPEAKER_04: At the end of his career.
38:09
SPEAKER_10: Yes.
38:12
SPEAKER_10: Uh Dick Modelleski is a defensive lineman who plays for both teams.
38:16
SPEAKER_10: He's originally drafted by the Redskins in 1953, but they traded him to the Steelers, and that's great for Modelleski because he was raised near Pittsburgh, so he gets to come home.
38:26
SPEAKER_10: Yay! What a feel-good story.
38:28
SPEAKER_10: Unfortunately, the Steelers are real bad during this time, and they have a coach named Walt Keysling, who Modelleski's not a big fan of.
38:37
SPEAKER_10: Uh, he says that Keysling once denied his request to miss practice, practice, so that he could be with his wife if he gave birth to their first child.
38:47
SPEAKER_04: Talk about practice here, Tim.
38:49
SPEAKER_04: Practice.
38:50
SPEAKER_04: They're talking about practice.
38:52
SPEAKER_10: Walt Keisling's like, no, she can do that by herself.
38:54
SPEAKER_10: You need to practice.
38:56
SPEAKER_10: What are you going to do anyway?
38:58
SPEAKER_10: Just stand there.
38:59
SPEAKER_10: You know, fumble, fumble the baby like the ball.
39:04
SPEAKER_10: Uh he also claims that uh Hall of Famer Ernie Stoutner uh used to take such a hammering in Keisling's practice that that really hurt his career.
39:13
SPEAKER_10: Apparently, while Keysling really liked to practice hard, and that did not translate into on-the-field results.
39:19
SPEAKER_10: So Dick Modeluski's only in Pittsburgh for one season and says, quote, I was glad to get the hell out of there.
39:26
SPEAKER_10: He winds up in New York where he appears in five of the next eight NFL championship games, including the 1958 greatest game ever played against the Giants.
39:35
SPEAKER_04: Oh, well, he's on the wrong side of that one.
39:38
SPEAKER_10: He is, but he does win a title with the Giants.
39:40
SPEAKER_10: Uh in 1964, he's traded to Cleveland, where he wins another championship with the Browns.
39:47
SPEAKER_04: That's the hey, that a fun fact, that's the last championship the Browns have won.
39:51
SPEAKER_10: It is.
39:52
SPEAKER_10: It's hard, it's even weird to say Browns and championship in the same sentence.
39:58
SPEAKER_04: That's the that's the only second championship the City of Cleveland's won since 1964.
40:04
SPEAKER_04: The uh Cavaliers winning.
40:06
SPEAKER_04: I forget what year that was.
40:08
SPEAKER_10: 2016, yeah.
40:09
SPEAKER_10: Yep.
40:10
SPEAKER_10: Uh after his playing career, Majuleski becomes a NFL defensive coach for more than two decades, including serving as the defensive coordinator for the Giants.
40:21
SPEAKER_10: So good for him.
40:22
SPEAKER_10: Good good for him, good on him for getting out of Pittsburgh when he did.
40:27
SPEAKER_04: Walt Keasling.
40:29
SPEAKER_04: What a great hire.
40:31
SPEAKER_04: So glad we kept him around like three different times.
40:33
SPEAKER_04: The the chief just loved him.
40:35
SPEAKER_04: For whatever reason, the chief loved Walt Keasley.
40:38
SPEAKER_10: Well, you said you said earlier about uh maybe Art II is his grandfather.
40:42
SPEAKER_10: I think that's kind of what you were what you were saying, right?
40:46
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
40:48
SPEAKER_10: Uh here's a guy who I think most people will remember.
40:51
SPEAKER_10: It's Ryan Clark.
40:54
SPEAKER_10: Remember Ryan Clark's team?
40:55
SPEAKER_04: I don't remember him playing for the Giants.
40:57
SPEAKER_04: I remember him playing for the uh, what do we call the team in Washington these days?
41:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
41:02
SPEAKER_04: Well, they were the Redskins back then, so I guess.
41:05
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, he did he did play for the Redskins.
41:07
SPEAKER_10: He actually uh starts his career, though, with the Giants.
41:11
SPEAKER_10: He's an undrafted rookie for New York.
41:13
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, and I didn't either, actually.
41:16
SPEAKER_10: Uh again, the the John, the gentleman that put together this episode uh unearthed all this.
41:20
SPEAKER_10: I would not put Ryan Clark on that list.
41:22
SPEAKER_04: I thought Ryan Clark got drafted.
41:24
SPEAKER_04: I didn't realize he was undrafted.
41:25
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, undrafted rookie.
41:27
SPEAKER_10: New York signs him in 2002.
41:29
SPEAKER_10: He actually starts a few games for the Giants.
41:31
SPEAKER_10: Uh not in his rookie year, but in 2003 he starts a few games.
41:35
SPEAKER_10: But then he's waived before the 2004 season.
41:38
SPEAKER_10: That's when he goes to Washington.
41:40
SPEAKER_10: He is waived after the 2005 season there, and in March of 2006, the Steors need a replacement for Chris Hope, who had just signed with the Titans as a free agent.
41:50
SPEAKER_10: So they pick up Clark, and he's a really good player for them for a long time.
41:54
SPEAKER_04: Well, he got cut twice, and then like, boy, I thought he was a better, like, had a better pedigree than that, but boy, I guess he really matured here.
42:03
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, it worked out.
42:04
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, eight seasons, part of that Super Bowl 43 defense.
42:08
SPEAKER_10: Uh really important player, Steve.
42:10
SPEAKER_10: You you made the argument on the show before that his absence is probably the biggest reason we lost that Tim Tebow game.
42:18
SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, yeah, because he has that uh ailment.
42:21
SPEAKER_04: He has the um oh geez.
42:23
SPEAKER_04: Sickle cell sickle cell anemia, yeah.
42:26
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
42:27
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
42:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
42:29
SPEAKER_04: If we would have had him instead of uh it was the kid from West Virginia, who wasn't bad, but Brian Mundy.
42:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
42:37
SPEAKER_04: It just he just Ryan Mundy just bit on a play fake for no reason.
42:41
SPEAKER_04: I think what Tim Tebow completed like 10 passes, 12 passes that game.
42:45
SPEAKER_04: So unfortunately, one of them went for 75 yards and a touchdown to the late Demarius Thomas.
42:50
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah, it was 80, but who's counting?
42:53
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
42:55
SPEAKER_10: Not that that's seared into my memory.
42:58
SPEAKER_10: Uh since his playing career, Ryan Clark has been a very outspoken broadcaster, sometimes with good takes, sometimes with ridiculous takes.
43:06
SPEAKER_04: He's not too great on ESPN.
43:08
unknown: Yeah.
43:09
SPEAKER_10: He's just one of those like loud voices.
43:11
SPEAKER_10: I I I I don't like that brand of sports casting.
43:17
SPEAKER_04: I I like I Yeah, I think he's like the skip bailist, Stephen A.
43:21
SPEAKER_04: Smith, like we're just gonna say like wild things just to get attention.
43:26
SPEAKER_04: Clicks, views, ratings, whatever you want to call it.
43:28
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
43:29
SPEAKER_10: I'm perfectly fine with opinions.
43:31
SPEAKER_10: This is this is where I sound like an old man, but like Stan Savern had opinions, Myron Cope had opinions, but they you know, they it wasn't it wasn't like this, where you're like you said, it's all about clicks and sound bites and all that kind of stuff.
43:45
SPEAKER_04: And like I think Madden kind of toes that line.
43:48
SPEAKER_04: Like sometimes I won't you wonder if like he really believes what he's saying.
43:52
SPEAKER_04: And I think when people start to question, like, you know, do does this guy really believe this, or is he just saying it just to get people riled up?
44:00
SPEAKER_10: I I think with Madden, if if it's the if it's penguin related, I think he really believes it.
44:06
SPEAKER_10: It's honest.
44:07
SPEAKER_10: If it's anything else related, it's just WWE style heel kind of stuff.
44:13
SPEAKER_10: And if you take that seriously, honestly, that's on you.
44:17
SPEAKER_10: Here's another guy I think a lot of people will remember.
44:19
SPEAKER_10: It's kicker Matt Barr.
44:21
SPEAKER_10: Ooh, he joins the Steelers as a six-round draft pick in 1979 to replace.
44:27
SPEAKER_04: So Matt Barr was a draft pick and Ryan Clark wasn't?
44:32
unknown: Yeah.
44:32
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
44:33
SPEAKER_04: Make it make sense.
44:34
SPEAKER_04: Make it make sense.
44:36
SPEAKER_10: That's kind of funny, isn't it?
44:37
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
44:38
SPEAKER_10: Uh yeah, and he's he's Roy Garella's really the kicker for most of the 70s, but in 1979, they they get Matt Barr.
44:47
SPEAKER_10: In Matt Barr's first ever NFL game, this happens.
44:52
SPEAKER_07: Played a little over five minutes of overtime.
44:54
SPEAKER_07: High to 13.
44:56
SPEAKER_07: This could undo it.
44:57
SPEAKER_07: 61,000 fans are still here and they're on their feet.
45:02
SPEAKER_07: Right through the middle.
45:03
SPEAKER_07: I think he's got three.
45:04
SPEAKER_07: You betcha.
45:05
SPEAKER_07: Right.
45:06
SPEAKER_07: The rookie from Penn State has won the game for the Pittsburgh Steelers.
45:09
SPEAKER_07: Matt Barr, 41 yard field goal.
45:12
SPEAKER_07: You saw a quick shot of Ron Earhart.
45:14
SPEAKER_07: His head dropped.
45:16
SPEAKER_07: As Chuck Knoll has won his 100th game as a professional football coach.
45:21
SPEAKER_08: What a game for that man to have won and for his team to have won.
45:26
SPEAKER_04: Wow, that's Boy, there's a lot going on in that video, Tim.
45:31
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
45:31
SPEAKER_04: Is this uh I guess is a regular season game?
45:33
SPEAKER_04: What year again?
45:34
SPEAKER_10: The first game in the 1979 season i in New England.
45:38
SPEAKER_04: And that was Howard Cosell, Frank Gifford, and who was the color?
45:43
SPEAKER_04: Was it was it Frank Gifford?
45:44
SPEAKER_04: No.
45:44
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, Frank Gifford, maybe Don Meredith.
45:47
SPEAKER_10: I don't know.
45:47
SPEAKER_04: I don't I saw I heard Howard Cosell, Ron Earhart, the Ron Earhart.
45:52
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, he was the coach of the Patriots that year.
45:55
SPEAKER_04: The guy who would go on while talking there's another Giants connection, Tim.
45:59
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, that's true.
46:01
SPEAKER_04: And Steelers, Giants and Steelers connection.
46:04
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I guess.
46:04
unknown: that's a good idea.
46:11
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
46:12
SPEAKER_10: Yep.
46:13
SPEAKER_10: So yeah, Matt Barr uh is the kicker that whole season.
46:17
SPEAKER_10: He's on the on the team that beats the Rams in the Super Bowl.
46:21
SPEAKER_10: But before the 1981 season, the Steelers cut bar in training camp in favor of David Trout because Trout had a stronger leg, and my God, was that a horrendous mistake?
46:31
SPEAKER_04: Well, Matt Barr, like he was the first, their first soccer style kicker, too, because like Jarella was a pendulum straight-on kick with your toe guy.
46:41
SPEAKER_04: And you could see the difference.
46:42
SPEAKER_04: Like Roy Jarella, that would have been a uh 50-50 chance there.
46:47
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, and that was a long kick.
46:49
SPEAKER_04: 41 back then, 41 was not a gimme at all back in 1979.
46:55
SPEAKER_10: Definitely not.
46:58
SPEAKER_04: What happened to Roy Jarella?
46:59
SPEAKER_04: Did he just like go do Roy Jarella stuff?
47:02
SPEAKER_04: I I guess.
47:03
SPEAKER_10: His last game was that 78 Super Bowl.
47:06
SPEAKER_10: Now I don't know if he formally retired or if the Steelers just moved on and he couldn't catch on anywhere, but that was his last game with Super Bowl 13.
47:15
SPEAKER_04: Jarella's Gorillas, huh?
47:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
47:18
SPEAKER_04: Hang out with the Gorillas somewhere.
47:20
SPEAKER_10: But yeah, cutting cutting Matt Bar for David Trout.
47:23
SPEAKER_10: Uh we talked about we talked about the Kent Graham Cleveland game being one of the top five most brutal regular season losses in Skiel history.
47:30
SPEAKER_10: Also on that list has to be the 1981 game in Seattle, where David Trout misses a 22-yard kip shot inside of a dome to lose the game.
47:40
SPEAKER_10: I mean, that was that was almost just as shocking as Kent Graham taking that sack.
47:45
SPEAKER_10: It's like literally it was an extra point.
47:47
SPEAKER_10: Uh Matt Barr signs with the 49ers, then is traded to the Browns, where he plays for the rest of the decade and plays really well on some good Cleveland teams.
47:56
SPEAKER_04: Well, he won a Super Bowl, didn't he, with the Browns?
47:59
SPEAKER_10: No.
48:00
SPEAKER_04: No, with the Giants.
48:01
SPEAKER_10: Well, hang on, we're getting to that.
48:02
SPEAKER_10: So in 1990, he signs with the Giants, and that ends up being a huge signing for New York because in the NFC championship game against the heavily favored 49ers, Matt Barr accounts for all 15 Giants points, including this kick.
48:19
SPEAKER_02: And the kick is good.
48:23
SPEAKER_02: There will be no three-peat.
48:26
SPEAKER_02: The Giants win it 15-13.
48:30
SPEAKER_10: And if you want to talk about the um the Patriots, the Giants beating the Patriots being sh being shocking.
48:36
SPEAKER_10: I I re I still remember watching this game.
48:39
SPEAKER_10: And the 49ers, you know, that was back in the era where you didn't really have upsets.
48:45
SPEAKER_10: I mean, when you when the when the best team was the best team all year, they just were the best team.
48:49
SPEAKER_04: That was that was kind of the whole 80s.
48:50
SPEAKER_04: Like you just had one team and it was the whole season and they kind of just did their thing.
48:56
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, we've said before that's why the Bears were able to record a music video, you know, eight weeks before they won the Super Bowl saying they were going to win the Super Bowl.
49:04
SPEAKER_10: And that's that was the 49ers in 1990.
49:06
SPEAKER_10: Nobody was going to beat them.
49:07
SPEAKER_10: And for the Giants to beat them on five Matt Barr field goals at Candlestick Park was just beyond shocking.
49:15
SPEAKER_04: And that's the same season they beat the um Bills, right?
49:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
49:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
49:20
SPEAKER_10: So so that that kick sends them to the Super Bowl, and then in Super Bowl 25, Barr kicks the go-ahead field goal late in the fourth quarter.
49:28
SPEAKER_10: Buffalo still has one last possession, and they get in field goal range, but a guy named Scott Norwood misses his chance at a game winner, so Matt Barr wins the second Super Bowl.
49:40
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he didn't go wide right, and Scott Norwood did.
49:43
SPEAKER_04: Scott Norwood was not very good on grass.
49:45
SPEAKER_04: Nobody ever poor Scott Norwood, nobody ever remembers that.
49:48
SPEAKER_04: I think he was a barefoot kicker too, wasn't he?
49:50
SPEAKER_10: He was not a barefoot kicker, but I thought he was uh you're you're right that he his problem was grass, and that that kicking the Super Bowl was 47 yards, which even today would be long.
50:01
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
50:02
SPEAKER_10: Uh but but he you know, Buffalo at the time, their stadium had turf, and he was used to kicking on turf, and he had never kicked a field goal that long on grass.
50:12
SPEAKER_10: So it was it was not going to be an easy kick.
50:14
SPEAKER_04: Gary Anderson was bad on grass too.
50:17
SPEAKER_04: I remember that.
50:18
SPEAKER_10: That's true.
50:18
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, he was.
50:19
SPEAKER_04: So bad in NFC championship games.
50:23
SPEAKER_10: Also, also true.
50:25
SPEAKER_10: Uh Matt Barr uh later ends up with the Patriots after Parcells goes there, only to lose his job to Adam Benateri.
50:32
SPEAKER_10: So kind of a crazy career for Matt Barr.
50:34
SPEAKER_10: He wins the Super Bowl with the 70 Steelers, plays on all those Browns disaster teams who repeatedly lose the AFC Championship game to Denver, and then he wins a second Super Bowl with ends of dynasty in New York.
50:48
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
50:48
SPEAKER_10: Yep.
50:49
SPEAKER_04: And then and then loses his job to probably is Vinateri in the Hall of Fame?
50:55
SPEAKER_04: Is he eligible yet?
50:56
SPEAKER_10: He he's at the time of this recording, he's a finalist.
50:59
SPEAKER_10: By the time this episode airs, we'll probably know whether or not he made it.
51:02
SPEAKER_10: But uh yeah, he's he's one of the 15 finalists.
51:05
SPEAKER_04: There's no way he doesn't make it.
51:07
SPEAKER_04: I I if you're gonna put a kicker in, you have to did they they have a kicker in already, don't they?
51:12
SPEAKER_04: Um well it's Blanda, but Blanda played like real positions.
51:17
SPEAKER_10: I think Jan Stenerud's in there too.
51:19
SPEAKER_10: I think Jan Stenerud was a pure kicker, and I think he's in there.
51:22
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
51:23
SPEAKER_10: So and and Ray Guy's in there as a punter.
51:25
SPEAKER_10: So they they've there's precedent, but yeah, either way, Matt Barr, pretty good career.
51:31
SPEAKER_10: Uh unfortunately, unfortunate that we cut him that early.
51:36
SPEAKER_10: It did work out for us because we ended up with Gary Anderson.
51:39
SPEAKER_10: Uh so so, Steve, the Steor is cut a kicker who ultimately really helped the Giants, but that's okay because about three decades later, the Giants would return the favor, cutting this guy.
51:51
SPEAKER_08: 60-yard attempt.
51:52
SPEAKER_08: It would be a new career long for Boswell.
51:56
SPEAKER_08: For the lead, sweeps the leg, sixty yarder.
52:00
SPEAKER_08: He's got it.
52:03
SPEAKER_08: Pittsburgh goes in front with one oh three on the clock.
52:08
SPEAKER_04: Hey, and speaking of this, did you see um who who just became the kicker uh the last game for the uh Giants here?
52:16
SPEAKER_04: It's not really uh Steelers connection, it's a more Ben Sulz.
52:19
SPEAKER_04: Yes, Ben Sulz.
52:20
SPEAKER_04: He kicked a couple in a wasp, but he kicked a couple, so there you go.
52:24
SPEAKER_04: We got to keep the Pittsburgh connection going.
52:26
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah, that's a good call.
52:27
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, if we're talking about kickers, that's that's true.
52:30
SPEAKER_10: Uh Chris Boswell is the guy you heard in that clip there.
52:33
SPEAKER_10: He's on the Giants roster in the summer of 2015, mainly because their regular kicker was hurt, and he kicks pretty well for them in the preseason, but the Giants are like, nah, we're good.
52:43
SPEAKER_10: And a few weeks later, the Steelers pick him up and he proceeds to become probably the greatest kicker in team history.
52:50
SPEAKER_10: I mean, I think you could make the argument between him and Gary Anderson, Steve.
52:54
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
52:55
SPEAKER_04: Jeff Reed.
52:56
SPEAKER_04: I'm sorry.
52:56
SPEAKER_04: I I think Jeff Reed's the greatest kicker in Steelers history.
53:01
SPEAKER_10: Really?
53:01
SPEAKER_10: Are you being facetious?
53:03
SPEAKER_04: No, I'm not being facetious at all.
53:05
SPEAKER_10: Just because he he played.
53:07
SPEAKER_04: Degree of difficulty.
53:08
SPEAKER_04: Degree of difficulty.
53:11
SPEAKER_04: Gary Anderson couldn't kick on grass.
53:14
SPEAKER_04: Gary Anderson missed big clutch kicks.
53:17
SPEAKER_04: Jeff Reed did both.
53:18
SPEAKER_04: Chris Boswell hasn't had a chance to make a big clutch kick.
53:22
SPEAKER_04: He's made clutch kicks, but he plays in a totally that they've they've totally made that stadium so easy to kick in.
53:30
SPEAKER_04: He played in the K-ball era.
53:32
SPEAKER_04: He wasn't allowed to mess up the balls like Gary Anderson and Boswell are.
53:36
SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm sorry, like there's a lot of mitigating factors on why Jeff Reed is the greatest.
53:42
SPEAKER_04: He he you know If the Steelers don't score that touchdown in Super Bowl 43, he kicks the field goal.
53:49
SPEAKER_04: He makes the field goal.
53:50
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
53:50
SPEAKER_04: I have no doubt about it.
53:53
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, I that's fair, Steve.
53:55
SPEAKER_10: I mean, I I didn't really think about that, but that's a really good argument because and remember when he came in, Heinz Field was like a year and a half old.
54:03
SPEAKER_04: It was a disaster.
54:05
SPEAKER_04: It ruined Chris um oh Chris Brown.
54:07
SPEAKER_04: Chris Brown, and then the other guy from Kansas City.
54:10
SPEAKER_04: Todd Peterson.
54:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
54:11
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah.
54:12
SPEAKER_10: They they they a year and a half, they had gone through two kickers.
54:16
SPEAKER_10: They they'd really lost the AFC championship game because of special teams.
54:20
SPEAKER_10: And and Chris Brown, everybody remembers Chris Brown was a disaster, but Chris Brown was really good the two years before that at Three River Stadium.
54:28
SPEAKER_04: He missed like four or five field goals against the Ravens, if I remember correctly.
54:32
SPEAKER_04: It was something ridiculous.
54:34
SPEAKER_10: Yep.
54:35
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, it was it was a complete disaster.
54:37
SPEAKER_10: And then Jeff Reed came in in like the middle of the season and stabilized that position for the next almost decade.
54:43
SPEAKER_04: He he hit that field goal against the Ravens, which was like 40 almost 50.
54:47
SPEAKER_04: Like, remember, you couldn't kick a 50 yarder in Heinz Field for like 20 years.
54:52
SPEAKER_10: Well, the playoff game against the Jets, where their kicker missed two field goals at the end of the game, he makes the one in overtime.
54:58
SPEAKER_10: So so I hey, that's a good argument.
55:01
SPEAKER_10: I didn't think of that, but I think you make a really strong argument.
55:04
SPEAKER_04: I mean Boswell has the better stats, but he just I I I it is it isn't anything that Boswell's done wrong.
55:11
SPEAKER_04: Right.
55:12
SPEAKER_04: I will say Boswell hasn't done anything to not to disqualify himself for that.
55:18
SPEAKER_04: I just think Jeff Reed was just a little better.
55:21
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
55:23
SPEAKER_10: I can't I can't poke any holes in an argument, Steve.
55:25
SPEAKER_10: I think you're I think that's a really good argument.
55:28
SPEAKER_10: Uh some other notable guys who played for both teams.
55:31
SPEAKER_10: Uh Jerry Hillebrand is an outside linebacker who plays for the Giants in the early 60s, then ends up playing in Pittsburgh on Chuck Knoll's first couple of teams.
55:40
SPEAKER_10: Running back Eric Pegrim leads the Steelers in rushing during the 1995 Super Bowl season.
55:46
SPEAKER_10: He ends his career in 1997 with the Giants.
55:50
SPEAKER_10: Jeez.
55:51
SPEAKER_04: I remember more playing for Atlanta than the Giants, but hey.
55:54
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, well, that was before.
55:55
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, that's he had come from Atlanta to the Steelers, but then he ends up with the Giants at the at the end there.
56:02
SPEAKER_10: Uh quarterback Earl Morrill wins three Super Bowls and is named the NFL's most valuable player after being jettisoned by both the Steelers and the Giants.
56:12
SPEAKER_10: So oops.
56:14
SPEAKER_10: Uh here's a guy, Steve.
56:16
SPEAKER_10: See if you remember this guy.
56:17
SPEAKER_10: Linebacker Alonzo Jackson.
56:20
SPEAKER_04: Vaguely, yeah.
56:22
SPEAKER_10: He he is a uh high draft pick.
56:26
SPEAKER_10: The year the year so the year they drafted Troy Palomalu, I think 2008.
56:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he was like, yeah, that was the guy everybody was like, oh, this guy's gonna be great.
56:33
SPEAKER_04: And he was like, eh.
56:34
SPEAKER_04: He was like, eh, the uh.
56:37
SPEAKER_10: And and they didn't have like a third round pick because I think that's how they traded up to get Paul Malo.
56:42
SPEAKER_10: So really like their their two picks, their two high picks that year were Troy and Alonzo Jackson, and he was such a bust.
56:50
SPEAKER_10: Um, I mean, it it you can't understand how much of a bust he was.
56:54
SPEAKER_10: And he goes to the Giants and doesn't last too long there either.
56:58
SPEAKER_10: His entire NFL career, Steve, three seasons.
57:01
SPEAKER_04: Sounds about what I remember of Alonzo Jackson.
57:04
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, it wasn't good.
57:06
SPEAKER_10: Uh here's a guy that Steve mentioned earlier, defensive back Ryan Mundy.
57:11
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, local kid, played for Woodland Hills High School, like Steve said, went to WVU, spent several years with the Steelers.
57:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he really was a solid backup at safety.
57:21
SPEAKER_04: He he wasn't bad.
57:22
SPEAKER_04: He just bit on that one play.
57:24
SPEAKER_04: Just why?
57:25
SPEAKER_04: Tim Tebow let let the linebackers tackle Tim Tebow.
57:29
SPEAKER_04: You stay back and tackle Demarius Thomas or intercept the ball when Tebow throws his you know balloon ball.
57:36
SPEAKER_04: I mean Yeah.
57:38
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that was He bit on the play fake.
57:41
SPEAKER_04: You you watch the highlight, he just totally bait by like what were you worried?
57:44
SPEAKER_04: You weren't even if you tackle the guy, he's gonna get like eight yards.
57:48
SPEAKER_10: Like Yeah, so I unfortunate that that's probably his his his lasting moment.
57:55
SPEAKER_10: He also plays a season with the Giants.
57:57
SPEAKER_10: Uh punter Tom Ruin has a distinction of playing for both teams in the same season.
58:04
SPEAKER_10: That was in 2002.
58:06
SPEAKER_04: Uh the ruiner.
58:08
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, the ruiner.
58:09
SPEAKER_04: He was not that good.
58:11
SPEAKER_10: He wasn't.
58:12
SPEAKER_10: Uh, but you know, he played for both the Steelers and Giants in the same season.
58:16
SPEAKER_10: Uh, and last but certainly not least on this list of notable players who played for both the Steelers and the Giants.
58:23
SPEAKER_10: It's this guy.
58:26
SPEAKER_10: Late second quarter.
58:27
SPEAKER_10: Hada, hada, hada, ha, hada, hada, hold.
58:29
SPEAKER_09: Chris Callaway, there's a rare touchdown.
58:31
SPEAKER_09: There they go.
58:32
SPEAKER_09: Seven to three.
58:34
SPEAKER_04: Chris Callaway.
58:36
SPEAKER_04: I don't remember him playing for the Steelers at all.
58:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
58:40
SPEAKER_10: He he played for the Steelers uh early in his career.
58:43
SPEAKER_04: What do you have like a cup of coffee here or something?
58:45
SPEAKER_04: Jeez.
58:46
SPEAKER_10: I want to say it was like two or three years.
58:48
SPEAKER_10: He it was it was that like the very tail end of the Chuck Noel era.
58:52
SPEAKER_10: Uh well that that explains, yeah.
58:54
SPEAKER_10: I think when Cowernho came in, it was one of the guys that they they let go.
58:58
SPEAKER_10: And he was actually a really good receiver for the Giants after that.
59:01
SPEAKER_10: It's a shame that we didn't keep him.
59:03
SPEAKER_10: And then, of course, as you heard in that clip, you know, what everybody remembers, what I always remember him for was the Heidi, Heidi, Heidi, who the Chris Berman thing.
59:12
SPEAKER_10: All right, so uh we heard Kate and Era talk earlier about, you know, what if these two teams ever met in the Super Bowl?
59:18
SPEAKER_10: Well, despite these two teams appearing in a combined 13 Super Bowls, they've never played each other in that game.
59:24
SPEAKER_10: But have they played some memorable games against each other over the years anyway?
59:29
SPEAKER_10: Well, not recently.
59:33
SPEAKER_10: The Steelers and Giants, Steve, get this stat.
59:35
SPEAKER_10: The Steelers and Giants have only played each other 12 times in the 56 seasons since the NFL merger.
59:43
SPEAKER_04: What?
59:44
SPEAKER_04: Run that five, 12?
59:46
SPEAKER_04: Did you say anything?
59:47
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, so the NFL and AFL merged in 1970.
59:51
SPEAKER_10: There's been fifty at the time of this recording, that's 56 seasons of merged, you know, NFL football.
59:57
SPEAKER_10: And they've only played each other 12 times, and none of those have been very memorable.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_04: Well, that you know, the last time the Steelers lost on Monday Night Football, you know who that was too.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah, I guess I guess there's that.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_10: They're an answer to a trivia question.
1:00:11
SPEAKER_04: You were at that game, right?
1:00:12
SPEAKER_04: I was.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_04: Were you cheering let's go bucks?
1:00:15
SPEAKER_04: I was.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_10: Yes, I was.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_10: That was the game where we all cheer, everybody sarcastically cheered let's go bucks, which you will never, ever, ever see happen again.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_10: Uh but yeah, uh other than other than kind of a trivia question answer, uh, there haven't been a whole lot of memorable Steelers guidance games since the merger.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_10: So instead, let's visit some some games pre-merger when these two teams did play each other a lot.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_10: So let's start with a game that we covered in our our first time episode.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_10: It's New York 23, Pittsburgh 2 on September 20th, 1933, notable for being the first ever game in Steelers history.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_04: On a Wednesday, folks.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_04: Wednesday night action.
1:00:56
SPEAKER_04: Wednesday night NFL action.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_10: All my Rowdy friends are here for Wednesday night.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_04: On the radio.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_10: Uh that same season, the Steelers, or the Pirates, as they were called then, also lose their last game of the season to the Giants 27-3.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_10: So, hey, Steve, you know, first game they lost, they only scored two points.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_10: This game they scored three points.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_10: That's the kind of improvement you want to see between the first game of the season and the last game of the season.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_04: For sure.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_10: Uh Pittsburgh's first win against the Giants comes in 1936, and their first season sweep of the Giants comes in 1942.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_10: In 1947, the Steelers beat the Giants twice on their way to a playoff for the East Division title, which they lose to Philadelphia.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_04: Well, there'll be plenty more to come, Tim.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_04: Don't worry.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, that's just a building talk.
1:01:53
SPEAKER_04: Jock Sutherland, Dr.
1:01:55
SPEAKER_04: Sutherland has it under control with his wing T formation.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_04: The Steelers are gonna go back to the playoffs for a couple more years and maybe a championship is in the works.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_04: So when was their next championship game after that?
1:02:08
SPEAKER_10: Our next playoff game, yeah.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, let's see.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_10: Let's do some math.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_10: Uh 1972.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_10: I was gonna say, Steve, if if if Doc Sutherland doesn't put the boys into shape, it's okay because Walt Keisling's waiting in the wings.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_04: There you go.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_04: And don't worry, we have nut job, what's his name, Buddy?
1:02:26
SPEAKER_10: Uh Buddy Parker.
1:02:27
SPEAKER_10: Oh, yeah.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_10: Well, speaking of Buddy Parker, that's a great transition because the most consequential game probably ever between these two teams happens on December 15th, 1963.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_04: Oh, this is yeah, this is yeah, this is outside of that 47 game.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_04: This is the other playoff game.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, it's not it's not a true playoff game, but it really is because uh It was a regular season game.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_04: That's why it was yeah.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_10: But but it's but it's whoever wins plays the Bears in the NFL championship.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_10: It's the it's the equivalent of like an AFC or NFC championship game today.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_10: And we we did cover this game in our buddy Parker episode.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_10: We'll link that on the website.
1:03:04
SPEAKER_10: But what happens is the Giants jump out to a 16-3 lead at halftime, but in the third quarter, early in the third quarter, the Steelers score and they caught the deficit to 16-10.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_10: And then the Steelers have the Giants down to a third and long.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_10: They have all the momentum.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_10: The Giants receiver, a guy we mentioned earlier, Frank Gifford, makes a huge play to convert.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_10: He he gets he makes another catch to get the Giants in scoring position.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_10: The Steelers never again make the game close.
1:03:31
SPEAKER_10: Afterwards, Buddy Parker says that Gifford's grab was a turning point and said that that play was, quote, the end for us.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_04: 1963.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_04: So this is Gifford's comeback season?
1:03:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, this would have been after the Yeah, because 1960, yeah, he literally didn't play, yeah, play for like a year or two after Chuck McDermott.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah, and it's a pretty good comeback season.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_10: And and in that game, that that catch that Gifford makes there with you know on third and long with the the Steelers making that comeback, Frank Gifford actually calls that his greatest ever catch.
1:04:06
SPEAKER_04: Huh.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_04: Fair enough.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_04: I would have thought he would have called Kathy Lee's greatest ever catch, but I don't know.
1:04:15
SPEAKER_10: Well, I'm sure she's a close second.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_10: Uh it's it's a really disappointing loss for the Steelers because uh kind of like Steve alluded to, you know, they weren't used to being that close to glory, and this was kind of their one their one chance, and it didn't happen.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_10: Uh three footnotes to that game.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_10: So number one, it's the final ever game in the career of Steelers Hall of Famer Ernie Stoutner, and he blames the Steelers quarterback Ed Brown.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_10: He blames his inaccuracy that day.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_10: Brown threw 20 incompletions and three interceptions.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_10: And Stoutner was especially upset because even with all those incompletions, receivers Buddy Dow and Gary Ballman combined for 196 yards receiving between them.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_10: So the two starting wide receivers have 200 yards receiving.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_10: Imagine if Ed Brown is accurate, what they could have done, right?
1:05:08
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_10: But he throws 20 incompletions.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_10: And if you remember from our buddy Parker episode, Myron Cope blamed Ed Brown's performance on the fact that he gave up booze the week before the game.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_04: Oh, he was in withdrawal.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_10: He was yeah, he was all serious and tight instead of loose, and he should have drank more.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_10: That was Myron Cope's theories.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_10: He should have gotten drunk.
1:05:29
SPEAKER_04: So well, that would have definitely followed the other quarterback.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_04: Uh, what's his name?
1:05:34
SPEAKER_04: Bobby Lane.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_04: That was Bobby Lane's uh more uh pregame ritual.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_04: Drink it, drink it before the game.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_04: I was drinking at the half.
1:05:46
SPEAKER_04: Drink it in the huddle.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_04: The quote Ed Don from the Colts.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_04: He tackled, he tackled them.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_04: And he and he's like, You smell like liquor, are you out drinking?
1:05:58
SPEAKER_04: He's like, nope, I was drinking at the half.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_10: Well, maybe that would have helped Ed Brown.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_10: Who knows?
1:06:05
SPEAKER_10: Myron Cope thought so.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_10: So that's the first footnote.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_10: Footnote number two.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_10: With that loss, the Steeler season is not over.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_10: They play the Lions in a game called the Playoff Bowl, which was a weird oddity back then where the two runner-up teams played in like a Bronze.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_10: It was that was a game that Bensombardi called the Poop Bowl, except he didn't say poop.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_04: Crap?
1:06:30
SPEAKER_04: Excrement.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_10: It was a different four-letter word.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_10: The league then, just like the league today, was looking for revenue streams, so they shoehorned in that game for several years.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_10: You kind of wonder what the heck they were thinking.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_10: John, the gentleman that that helped prep this episode, he's he noted, you know, why not just have a four-team playoff?
1:06:52
SPEAKER_10: You know, if you wanted extra games and you wanted more revenue, why not just make it instead of the two teams that won the division, have like the two division champions and two wild cards and have a four-team playoff.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_04: Never.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_04: Must make regular season mean something to.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_10: Well, and and and the funny thing was, I didn't realize this, Steve, but the AFL actually did that.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_10: And that's how the Kansas City Chiefs end up winning their first Super Bowl a few years later.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_10: They did not win their division.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_10: They came in second place, but because the AFL had a four-team playoff.
1:07:21
SPEAKER_04: And they hadn't merged officially for the first two Super Bowls, yeah.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_10: For the first four Super Bowls.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_04: I thought it was Super Bowl three was the first year.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_10: No, it was it was Super Bowl five was the first year that there was an AFC and NFC.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_10: That's why the the Colts and Jets played in Super Bowl three because they hadn't merged yet.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_10: They weren't in the same conference.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_10: And and so that that's how Kansas City made the Super Bowl because they actually had a four-team playoff.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_10: And so why not just why not just have Steelers, Lions, Giants, and and uh I forget, the Bell Bears.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_10: Just have those four teams in a playoff.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_10: You know, you could have gotten your revenue that way, but whatever, what do we know?
1:07:59
SPEAKER_10: Uh footnote number three to that 1963 game, and this one involves Art Rooney again.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_10: Uh, but instead of me telling the story, I will let Frank Gifford tell it instead.
1:08:09
SPEAKER_05: A very special man to so many of us.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_05: I can remember one time we beat the Pittsburgh Steelers in 1963, and that was the first time the Steelers had a chance to go into a championship game.
1:08:19
SPEAKER_05: They had never known the taste of a championship.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_05: We beat them in the last minutes of those games, but before Art Rooney went to talk to his own ball club, he came into our locker room, congratulated the Maras, congratulated each and every one of the Giant players, and wished them well in the championship.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_05: That's the kind of individual Art Rooney senior was.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_04: Classy.
1:08:39
SPEAKER_04: Classy.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_10: Uh one one last connection between the Steelers and Giants, and it involves a famous photograph.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_10: So in 1964, the Steelers play the Giants at Pitt Stadium.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_10: New York's up 14-0.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_10: They have the ball deep in their own territory.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_10: The Giants have a Hall of Fame quarterback, Steve, you know who it was.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_04: YA Tittle.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_04: He's a hell of a it's a hell of a name.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_04: I think he was from Texas, I think.
1:09:05
SPEAKER_10: So so YA Tittle drops back to pass.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_10: The Steelers have a guy named John Baker who is 6'7, 280 pounds on defense, which even today, Steve, that would be huge.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_04: That would be pretty big, yeah.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_10: And you can imagine in 1964 he was probably like three times the size of anybody else.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_10: He he hits Tittle uh just as he's throwing the ball, and that hit knocks YA Tittle's helmet off, it cracks his sternum, pulls his rib cage muscles, and causes a concussion.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_10: The ball pops into the air, Steelers defensive tackle, Chuck Hinton grabs it, waltzes into the end zone, and as the Steelers defense is celebrating the touchdown, Tittle kneels on the grass and has blood trickling down his bald head.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_10: Morris Berman, a Pittsburgh Post Gazette photographer, takes a photo of this.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_10: The Post Gazette, in all their wisdom, does not use that photo in the paper the next day because the editor didn't think it was interesting.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_10: He wanted action shots, not a shot of a guy on his knees bleeding.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_10: And that decision turns out to be a huge embarrassment for the paper.
1:10:14
SPEAKER_10: Uh because over the next several months that photo wins numerous awards and it becomes really iconic, right, Steve?
1:10:21
SPEAKER_10: I mean, we've all seen that photo before.
1:10:23
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, yeah.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_04: I think uh that was towards the end of YA Tittle's career, too, wasn't it?
1:10:29
SPEAKER_10: Yes, I believe so.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_04: So it's very dramatic if you look at it.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_04: Like it there is a dramaticness to it if you're looking for that.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah.
1:10:40
SPEAKER_10: There there really is.
1:10:41
SPEAKER_10: It's it's like a fallen warrior kind of Yeah, yeah.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I guess he was looking for somebody diving into the end zone or something.
1:10:48
SPEAKER_04: And sometimes if you're looking for one thing and you're not really looking for the other, you can miss things, which happens to the best of us, I guess.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, that that also costs the photographer Berman an opportunity to win the Pulitzer Prize because the photo wasn't published at the time of the event, so it's ineligible for consideration.
1:11:09
SPEAKER_10: And he says he's really hurt by that.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_04: They're really strict on these bolts or prizes, huh?
1:11:14
SPEAKER_10: Apparently so.
1:11:15
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_10: Uh Sports Illustrated asks for and is given permission to publish that photograph, and that's what really kind of gets the national attention.
1:11:25
SPEAKER_10: Uh it's in the Pro Football Hall of Fame today.
1:11:28
SPEAKER_10: Uh again, it's it's a very iconic photo.
1:11:31
SPEAKER_10: By the way, the Steelers do come all the way back to win that game 27 to 24.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_10: So that that play ends up being pretty meaningful to the game, but that picture is really what lives on forever.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_10: YA Tittle, Steve, pretty tough dude.
1:11:44
SPEAKER_10: Uh years later, the the Giants are honoring him at a game, and at this point, Y Tittle's 83 years old.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_10: But head coach Tom Coughlin says, goes up to him and says, Hey, you look like you could still play.
1:11:56
SPEAKER_10: Why don't you come back and uh and be Eli Manning's backup?
1:12:00
SPEAKER_10: And YA Tittle says back to Tom Coughlin, he says, How about I come back and you make Eli Manning my backup?
1:12:08
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I don't like it.
1:12:09
SPEAKER_04: That's funny.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_10: So that's pretty good.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_10: Pretty good Y Tittle stuff there.
1:12:14
SPEAKER_04: That's a nice comeback.
1:12:16
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah.
1:12:17
SPEAKER_10: So that's that's that's it for our Stewart Giants connections.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_10: Again, uh special thanks to to John who helped uh get all this data together for this episode.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_10: Really could not have done this episode without him.
1:12:29
SPEAKER_10: Hope you enjoyed that.
1:12:31
SPEAKER_10: Uh please make sure you check us out on social media, on Facebook or Instagram.
1:12:36
SPEAKER_10: Uh also please, whatever service you're listening on, please uh like us or leave a nice comment.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_10: Uh that definitely helps people find the show.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_10: And we'll catch you next time.