Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #199: Barnyard Brainpower & Listener Mailbag: Joel Salatin on Nature-Based Learning

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Episode #199: Barnyard Brainpower & Listener Mailbag: Joel Salatin on Nature-Based Learning · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, and welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Dr.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Cena McCullough, and I'm here with our favorite co-host, Joel Salatin.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: And Joel just actually got back from a trip where he spoke at the Jackson Heights Public School in Holton, Kansas.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: He's going to tell us some really interesting things that he found out.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then we're going to answer some listener questions because we love these questions.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: They've been piling up.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we want to spend some time getting to all of these great, interesting, tantalizing questions.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: All right, Joel, take it away.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: What did you find?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Cena.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I just got back from this.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I spoke um last week at the Jackson Heights School in Holton, Kansas.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And my understanding, Cena, is that this is the only public school in the U.S.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: that did not mask during COVID.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And they were threatened by the Biden administration with being, you know, cut off from federal student, you know, monies and all sorts of things, but they didn't bow and they hung in there.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, turns out that there is a pretty healthy kind of developing um community in that area that is you know kind of a everything between self-reliance prepper and you know um alternative thinking.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And they're having an influence in the in the division.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the um the superintendent, it the the school is built over the first intercontinental ballistic missile silo from the Atlas, the Atlas series intercontinental ballistic nuclear warhead missiles during the Cold War.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been decommissioned now.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: But the um, but the the these these were um horizontal, horizontal missiles, and then they stood up to launch.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so the all the barracks and the basement of all this is the basement of the school, and they've now retrofitted them for classrooms.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So the school's on two levels, the basement down in a missile silo, and then the school building up above.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's a pretty pretty amazing thing.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is they've got they've got 75 acres of school property.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: About 40 acres is pasture.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so um they actually had me come in, did a did a full school assembly, public invited.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: They had about 200 guests that came as well.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a K through 12 school.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, about 750 students.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, no, not quite, more like 650, but but they're they're attracting, get this, they're attracting so much uh interest in the in the area that parents who have their choice to send their kids to another school are choosing this school.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So their enrollment has increased a couple of hundred in the last couple of years as word has gotten around that this school is is different.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and so um I got a tour from the one of the science teachers.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um man, what the the guy, I mean, he's got a they've built a whole uh waterfall um pond.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh they're growing they're growing fish and they're distributing fish in the community to people that have ponds.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um anyway, uh just it was so cool.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I was there to to sell them on the idea that they could feed the school from the grounds.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: What they've been doing is they just mow the grounds and sell the hay every year.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just you know, fur chemical fertilizer, hay, move it.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Chemical fertilizer, hay, move it.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I actually spent some time going through the meals.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, so just so you so let's take let's take eggs, all right.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: So eggs, I'm looking at my my math here, my notes.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we got 750 breakfasts a day times five is three thousand seven hundred and fifty a week.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um divided by uh twelve eggs in a dozen, assuming everybody gets an egg.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's three hundred and twelve dozen.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now the beauty is that the chickens don't just lay five days a week, they lay seven days a week.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Chickens don't, you know, they work on the weekends.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So so so you take that five, you know, seven days a week.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: What that means is you need 45 dozen a day, 45 dozen eggs per day from the chickens, times 12 and a dozen.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's 540 eggs a day.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if you assume 50% of them lay, you need 1,080 hens.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: 1,080 hens goes in one of our millennium feather nets, given a quarter acre every four days, takes about six acres.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: The point is, Cena, I was able to show them that in just six of their 40 acres of pasture, they could produce every egg that the school needs.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that not cool?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: That is really cool.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And listen to this, listen to this.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: They throw out half half of the food that they serve.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know why?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because the the USDA, oh, you're gonna love this.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: The USDA requires them, the kids that are coming through getting lunch, the USDA requires them to put on the portion size on the plate in order to check the box that they've served a nutritional meal.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're putting on the so the cafeteria servers are serving the children.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the children don't eat half of it, and so half of the food offered in the school cafeteria is thrown away.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, wait, you mean they're required to put the portion size according to my plate, which used to be the food pyramid?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and they're not eating it because they don't like it.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: In order, in order to, in order to check the box that they have complied with the nutrition requirements for um for food for for the for the school lunch program, they've got to give the kids everything that's available and a certain amount of it, in order to check the box that we served the nutrit the nutritional compliance of the school lunch program.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: But isn't it just perfect that the that the that the that the uh school lunch program does not ask, did the children eat it?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it only asks, did you serve it?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so they serve it and the kids don't eat half of it.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: But is that because they don't like it?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or something they haven't seen, green beans, you know, whatever, you know, they they don't like it, they don't want it.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so, oh, you'll love this.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So when I got to the school, I asked my uh the lady that was in charge, could you go to the cafeteria and get me some breakfast items?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So she went and she got a um a fruit, uh, what what was it called?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Fruit fruit topia or something, and um, and then a little um a box, a little thing of five little powdered donuts.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: This these were considered a nutritional breakfast for these kids.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so in the school assembly, I read the ingredients.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're talking high, you know, dextrose, monosodium glutamate, uh um um uh hydrogenated vegetable oil, a bunch of stuff you couldn't pronounce.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was really, it was really something.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I held this up and I said, This is your breakfast.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, the teachers and the and and and um it created a little bit of consternation.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um I could imagine.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right after the assembly, one of the teachers, I never found out who, he stomped out and said, Well, I'm not having anything to do with this.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: It it was it was a little bit um uh it created some tension in school.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: But but um wait, what was the kids'?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so that was one of the teachers' responses, but what were the kids' responses?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, because do they even know what those ingredients are?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like were they shocked?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Were they of course they don't?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I um the the the elementary kids did come.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: One uh two, three, and fourth grade classes came, but um what they demanded that all of the um every everyone in the high school came.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I had all the high school students, and um, and they actually, you know, that's a hard crowd.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's a hard crowd to talk to.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um, especially, you know, to do a lecture like that.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and and they, you know, there's always the couple that are, you know, um un un disinterested, but uh, but for the most part, they were right with it.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and when I when I I engaged them with some questions, you know, I said, uh, so so can y'all tell me three vegetables that that uh that you can plant um before before frost is done that can handle frost.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: They sat there like bumps on finally, you know, one of them one of them said cabbage, you know, one of them said potatoes, which of course is wrong.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but anyway, you know, they struggled.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: They they got me three, you know.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I said, well, how about the others?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: How about vegetables you have to you have to wait until frost is gone before you can plant?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, tomatoes and potatoes and stuff, they got that.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: But then they struggled with it.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, So, so can anybody give me, I said, okay, so it took you you know a few minutes to come up with that.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, can any anybody tell me uh the top influencer on TikTok?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my, the place erupted, they had names, they had all this stuff.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, So which is really more important in life, you know, and the influencers, of course.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, but uh, but it was you know, it was it was a good, it was a good teachable moment, you know, and uh and I I engaged and we went through, but uh anyway, the point is that the uh the the the principal said that you could not imagine the amount of food that they landfill every day.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: He said, it is it it's just off the charts.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: So these chickens would be able to eat that.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: All right, and of course, if they had better food, the kids might like it more, but um you know, um and composting too, like couldn't they compost some of that?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: They could, but the chick the chickens would be better because the chickens would eat it, lay eggs, and then still give you uh nutrition out their back end.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: So so that the chicken, the chicken actually center that they actually synergize it more than compost.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a whole lot easier because the because you don't have any flies or smell because the chickens eat it up.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Compost, you you know, you're you're dealing with uh, I mean, the the beauty of animals digesting something is it's always the right temperature, always the right moisture, always the right microbes, you know.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I I call animal digestion compost on on uh you know NASCAR race car Ferrari compost, you know, in the digestive system.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, so then so then so then we looked at uh we looked at broilers.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: What about chicken?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just tell you, chickens came out to on on fewer than 11 acres, they could raise all the chicken they wanted.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Beef.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: They could do that on um on 40 acres.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it took it took all the good land to do the um the the 40.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um well actually no, it only took about 20 acres.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um but forty acres was if they didn't uh handle them very well.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, they think they could do all their own beef.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they could do all their own pork.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh same situation.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Then I went to potatoes.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Potatoes took a little over a quarter of an acre.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, tomatoes took a little over a quarter of an acre.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: All the apples took about two-thirds of an acre.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: The point being, Tina, by the time I was done, I was able to build their entire school breakfast and lunch program at uh, let's see, at um that's 7,500 meals a week.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: 7,500 meals a week.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to build all that out um on the 40 acres that they had around the school.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's incredible.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: So would it be part of like a student program?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like the students who learn how to do an orchid?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so then so then the question is, well, you know, they already they already have an agriculture program where in the agriculture program they're all just learning about, you know, chemicals and and and and corn diseases.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why can't you shift that and and learn how to gut a chicken and um and move cows and build fence and all these other things?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh, I mean, I went into the shop, you know, of course, shops always just wonderful, fascinate me.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know they they I mean they do learn a lot about engines and and equipment maintenance and that sort of thing.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's a wonderful, wonderful uh program there.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: But uh anyway, it was it was really cool to um to be able to they they didn't know where to start, you know, but I was able to come, yeah, here's what you can produce on an acre, two acres, three acres.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I was able to I was able to to bridge that for them.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and what was fascinating to me was that they could actually they could actually pull it off.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but then of course, then you hit some uh school board members and stuff, and immediately the pushback starts.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh we uh I don't know if this if the health department would approve this.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like well, so the eggs would have to be refrigerated.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if we're eating eggs every day or every two days, uh they don't have to be refrigerated, but the health department's gonna demand that they are refrigerated.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, now we have to have a walk-in cooler.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the walk-in cooler is gonna cost this much.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so then one of the other teachers quickly quipped in, well, we just spent$15,000 to expend the football field bleachers.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we ought to be able to spend a little bit of money for a walk-in cooler.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So then you get then you get into this kind of you know uh back and forth discussion.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, you know, uh, well, where are we going to get the animals butchered?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, can we legally, you know, do that?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um and all that sort of thing.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was wonderful to be asked, and the the uh what the the energy um by so many to do this was wonderful.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: But then the the the downside is man, there's always the you know, can't can't do this, can't do that, can't do it, or it's too difficult.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and I I told them after you know watching them go back and forth on the money a little bit, I said, you know, this reminds me of when I got out of college, I came home, I was working at the newspaper, and um, and the the high school where I'd been on the on the debate team and I debated throughout um college, came back and they had a teacher that wanted to resurrect the high school debate team, but she didn't know enough about debate to resurrect me.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So she contacted me and said, Look, would you come and coach the debate team?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'll do all the paperwork and you know all the stuff that it that we have to do administratively in the school to have the team if you could come over and coach it.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: I said, sure, that'd be fun.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I went over and coached the team, and uh, and we were we got started a little bit late in the season, so I was looking for a little bit of pump.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I needed I needed some note cards and things for evidence for the kids to start.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to the, she and I went to the principal.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're sitting there in the principal's office and we're asking for$350.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: $350 to basically launch, launch the team and and you know, stuff that we needed, you know, some file boxes and stuff for the kids.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we just don't have we just don't have$350.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is this is this is a public school of you know, 700, a high school of 700 kids.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we don't have 300,$350.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: We just don't have it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we we pushed him pretty hard.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he's looking through his budget, you know, the all these columns of numbers and numbers and numbers and numbers.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he finally says, Well, we just took$25,000 out of an item, a line item called instructional materials last week for football helmets.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Maybe we could justify pulling 350 out of there for uh debate materials.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: You can imagine me.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just about went okay.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you're buying football helmets as instructional materials,$25,000, and you don't have$350 to start something that would really be instructional, like a debate team.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um anyway, it was it was one of those uh epiphenal moments for me.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like that at the school, you know, the same same thing.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: This the wonderful, you know, um, you know, Bill Mollison, who co-founded uh permaculture, always said that um one of his famous lines was Um, the world's most complex, the solutions to the world's most complex problems are elegantly simple.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I that's such a profound, uh, profound thing.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um and this was this was similar.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was sitting there um looking at those pastures, looking at that land.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was beautiful.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's Kansas, it's it's gorgeous, beautiful land.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: They have a they have a great big pond they could use for irrigation uh if it got dry.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the place couldn't be more set up for uh you know for a perfect um um you know uh in interconnected thing like this.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: But um boy, you've got well, oh, and then and then the cross country track goes right through you know these these fields, so you have to change out the cross country, which all it is is a mode path.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not like it's excavated and graveled and anything like that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a so but you have to you know change that.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um anyway, it it's just it's just amazing how fast something so simple and elegant can get you know um sidetracked by by all this other.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, it was it was really great.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was great to be there, it was great, a great opportunity.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I definitely um I definitely appreciated you know being able to be there.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it was it was it was good.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's so inspiring.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think this is also a good example of how change can be difficult, like not only on the individual level, right?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like motivating yourself for change, but in anytime you get an organization to where you have let's say funding from the government or really from any source, there's stipulations that come along with that funding.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it it does actually take away some of your freedom to be able to change direction when you want to, you know, even if you think something's well-meaning and you want to go in that direction and your whole heart's in it.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like for instance, I mean, the so I'm assuming that in the lunch line, they have to check the box of these portion sizes to say that they met the nutritional needs in order to continue getting funding from the federal government for the program.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: So if they start growing their own food, is are they now gonna get federal funding to help subsidize them growing their food there?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, I would doubt it, right?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're gonna be like, well, where's that funding?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now we're losing more money because we've lost the funding, because we're not taking their food, unless they took that food still and cooked it and gave it to the chickens, right?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: But well, well then then then the then the question becomes uh no, they they would still get their they would still get their funding, uh, but it but but the funding would go in to pay you know to pay for the you know the livestock and the gardening program.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: And can you just switch the funding like that?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: That that did not seem to be a problem.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um as we're talking about this, I thought about one of the other big issues that came up was the parents.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, would the parents allow their kids?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: To eat chicken processed right there on campus.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Would parents, you know, and would parents allow their kids to eat potatoes grown on campus that didn't go through some sort of an inspection, you know, a USDA inspection thing commercial?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: They said parents are are paranoid of you know of garden grown stuff.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean for sure.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Did I ever tell you the story?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because it fits perfectly here about how when we lived in Virginia and we had a cow share and we were getting raw milk um from a reputable farm, A2A2, you know, grass-fed, everything.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: And my in-laws came to visit and they wanted cereal in the morning.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: And did I tell you they would they were so opposed to drinking that milk that I even bought them from the grocery store just regular organic milk because I knew they wouldn't drink the raw milk.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they also were opposed to drinking the organic milk.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: They got in the car and drove the 22 minutes to get to the grocery store to get a jug of conventional milk for their cereal because they were afraid.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: They were definitely afraid of the raw milk, but they were afraid of what the organic milk milk contained.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, wait a minute, uh you should be afraid of what the conventional milk contains.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let me let me educate you here, you know, and even me telling them they're like, no, we're gonna drink our milk.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's familiar, it's comfortable.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're not like immediately getting sick from it.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's so that's what they're they're gonna opt toward.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it is a big challenge.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, welcome to the baby boomer generation.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: This that's that's me, that's my my classmates.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my, I just yeah.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I try, I was like, okay, I'm gonna not be judgmental here, which is why I got the organic milk for them.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: But then I was like, okay, just each to his own, you know, like educate people so that if they want it, so that they know what the options are, and then let them pick and support them in their decision.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I just close my mouth, like you know, yeah, yeah.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know what's funny about that though?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: They ended up grabbing out of the refrigerator the organic milk and not their own milk.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: So they ended up drinking the organic milk after all.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Left with this jug of conventional milk.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, that's just getting dumped.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh me.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, so there, there we are.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it was a good, good, uh, good time.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think this um this whole bureaucracy and the resistance thing is one thing that's leading uh some parents to join.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, these are more like grassroots, farm-based homes, homeschool co-ops.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I just heard about another one um in a neighboring state here that has sprung up seemingly out of nowhere that was started by homeschooling parents who wanted to create a co-op um so they had socialization for their kids, but they wanted it to be based on um based on basically programs, activities the kids can do that would foster confidence and give them a sense of purpose and community, right?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: So they can work together to problem solve.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so what did they do?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: They created a farm-based community.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: They meet on a farm, they spend the whole day there, they do all the farm chores.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they do other things too, you know, reading, writing, math, and stuff, but it's all centered around the farm and they do problem solving.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like if an animal gets sick, you know, all the kids come in there to help, and um, they you they explore natural solutions for it.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this is one of the reasons why these are popping up all over the place.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: And they're very there, there's a wait list oftentimes to get into these groups.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's truly remarkable.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, the day before, the day before I spent the day at St.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Martin's Academy in Fort Scott, Kansas.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a that is a Roman Catholic um private school, uh boys-only boarding school, ninth, yeah, ninth through twelfth grade.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um like 60, 60 couple students, and they're on a farm, and those boys hand milk cows every morning, and they that school drinks, I don't know what, 20 gallons of raw milk a day.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I spent I spent the day there.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what a delight.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Those boys were they were, I mean, they looked you in the eye, they shook your hand, they were every one of them was just engaged.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they all play rugby.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um in fact, Saturday they I went, I don't know if they won or not.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: They they played for the state championship in rugby.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they all learned to play the dulcimer.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: All of them, these uh everyone.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um and so they they have um, yeah, it was it was pretty cool.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I was there, they had an egg mobile, they were building a new egg mobile, so I helped coach them up on some changes they needed to make in their egg mobile to make it a little better.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: But um they're you know, they're putting up a greenhouse and and uh what a what a what a contrast.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there they they pretty much just you know were on their own and opted out of everything, and um and their enthusiasm, one guy one guy showed me a bow that he had made.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: So they've got five, like five um senior project, whatever, you know, rites of passage, and um, and one of them is the deer slayer.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And to to get that badge of honor, you have to go to the woods, cut a branch, make a bow, and shoot a deer, kill a deer with it.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and this, and they finally had after seven years, they've had their first student get that badge.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he he was there, I got to meet him, and his bow, Cena, these things, you know how how hard it is to make a bow from scratch, from a from a branch, a tree, a piece of wood.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it it, I mean, it has to be, you have to be able to put your finger right on the on the notch where the arrow goes, and the the bow has to perfectly balance in end to end.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's one stipulation.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: The other one is that it has to be in a perfectly straight line.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, if there's any swiggle in it, the arrow won't shoot straight.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so it's gotta, it's gotta be, so when you string it, that string has to be completely uh right in the middle of that of that bow, tip to tip, and then the fibers, the wood fibers, as you as you shave it down to make the bow, the fibers can't be severed from end to end.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: The fibers have to be continuous end to end, otherwise it doesn't bend, it doesn't bend symmetrically.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: It it bends kinky.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: It has a kinky thing in it.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I mean it was I just held that.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they put hours, I mean, these things take take 30 hours, 40 hours to to to and and he he had built he had built several bows.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: So he was a senior, he'd been working on this for four years, had built several bows, um, and and finally, you know, got one and was able to put enough time in and and made it work.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was, I mean, and and to to see the whatever, the the pride, the the self-worth, you know, I went to the woods, cut a tree, made a bow, killed a deer.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, oh, oh, it was so it was so wonderful.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Could you imagine how much confidence you would have knowing that if everything fell apart, you could still survive, you could feed yourself.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I'm curious, did he make the string part of the bow as well?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, now now Native Americans would have used sinew from bison, but he didn't have a bison.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: So they they get they get um skeins of of material, of thread material, and um it's real, it's real um, it's tiny.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: So they have what they have to do then is they have to um uh bind it, you know, rope it, rope it together to get it, to get it stronger, to get it won.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that they do do that um uh by hand.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a nylon, it's a nylon uh portage.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I love this idea of the rites of passage, um, because you know, in that book that I'm reading, The Anxious Gen Anxious Generation, he talks about how in our culture we basically don't have these rites of passages anymore, particularly for boys.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like a girl may have like a sweet 16 that might be somewhat of an equivalent, you know, but but we don't really have these for boys.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: And instead, we kind of feminize the boys in several ways.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started thinking of, okay, what kind of rite of passage can I do?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm in the process of creating one that will be with my son and the other teenage boy in our group.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: They both turned 16 this year, and so we're gonna have one in September.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so far, the initial thing I came up with is they're gonna um sleep on my land, like they're gonna have to create their tent, like they're gonna have to stay there overnight on our land, you know, without us helping them.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, of course, you know, we're right here in the house, of course, you know, they could just come inside, but so that there's not that fear there, but they have to fend for themselves.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: So they're gonna have to build their shelter, they're gonna have to build their fire, you know, they're gonna have to do their food.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I like this idea of giving them some kind of a challenge that they have to do, like a dedicated challenge to it.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: So this is interesting to me.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, usually there's a feast in a lot of cultures, it's a feast after the right of passage.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: So the next morning they get to come in the house and I'm gonna make this huge breakfast for them.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's this huge feast of you know, special kinds of foods.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they all get to choose them.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: But it just it's so interesting that you brought up the rite of passage because that's what I'm studying right now.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what kind of school is this?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Is this a government funded school?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And they're allowed to do this?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, no, no, this is this is totally uh outside the out the um, yeah, it's it's a totally private.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and and they, Cena, they have a waiting list because parents see what it does to their kids.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and so they they uh uh one one day Wednesday every Wednesday is a work day.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that they're not they're not doing studies, but every Wednesday is a work day.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they they have like work on the farm?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: So they were there was a one group out chopping thistles, one was building the egg mobile, one was uh building a fence down by the pond, you know, so they were all spread out doing doing different things.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um there's a there's a there's a spin-off of this uh school in here starting in Virginia.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is the second year for them.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if they've got students yet, but it's called St.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Dunstan's Academy, St.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Dunstan's Academy, and it's not Roman Catholic, it's Anglican.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean it does it wouldn't have to be religious, but but St.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Dunstan's, I can tell you, I've worked with them, um, done some little bit of consulting for them for fun, and and and great, great group of people.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: And uh their goal at St.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Dunstan's here is that every high school graduate is able to build his bride a house from scratch.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I just got goosebumps.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's their that's their goal.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and so the students actually do all the plumbing, the electrical, the roofing, the woodworking, and they've got their sawmill and they've got all this.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean that wow, it's it's yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty wow.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty cool.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what's the name of that first school where the guy's St.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Martin's Academy in Kansas.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: In Kansas.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you know what would be um interesting too is if somebody were to do a study to um to measure and track the holistic health of these students compared to the national average, right?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like the physical health, but mental, emotional, spiritual health.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Every one of them, every one of them was fit, radiant.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: There were there was not a slouch in the group.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: They now, now, they all play rugby, but they don't all play on the first team, okay?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: But they all, when they go to the practice field, they all go.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: The the esprit decor uh is just phenomenal.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh one day a week the juniors, the juniors get to wear a kilt.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so so I was there on on on kilt day.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: All the juniors were wearing kilts.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: And um anyway, they they they have they do they have all these things that they do, like they're getting ready, they're all they're all building their boats.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so they they they're they're building uh canoes out of uh out of canvas and uh wood and um and and uh they they they paint it with a kind of a wax material.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: But the stuff they do, for example, there's there's a big pond, and so when they study, I'd never heard of this war, and I'm a history miner, but there was some great big war, um the Pelopsi War or something like that, in um in the Aegean Sea that was the final showdown between the Ottoman Turks and the Holy Roman Empire.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the Holy Roman Empire won, and it was the beginning of the demise of the Ottoman Turks.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I've never heard of this big, but it was a big naval battle.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so they study this thing, and then guess what?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody gets they they get cardboard, duct tape, and um, and wax, uh, uh wax, uh, um Crisco, Crisco, okay?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: They get duct tape, Crisco, and cardboard, and they make boats that go out in the pond and they reconstruct this naval battle in the pond, and all they need is for the boats to survive about an hour, and um, and they reconstruct this battle in the on in the big farm pond with these homemade cardboard boats that they that they it just it's just wonderful.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: It just is it was just wonderful.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: The the the esprit decor, I mean, those guys, I I spoke, I spoke to one, I spoke to them at class, uh, then I attended one of the classes, and then I did an open public thing uh in the evening, and public came in, and um, and I mean they they sang.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: I got ready to leave, they sang me a farewell song, all these 67 boys and parts and a cappello, and just oh, it was it was just wonderful, just wonderful.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's incredible.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: Now, is that is it all boys?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all boys.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: That was all boys.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: When you said for to make the boats, they have duct tape, Crisco, and cardboard.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: My first thought was, oh, finally, that's a a use for Crisco that I thought would be good.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: But then I was like, oh, but now you're getting some in the river, in the pond.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh no, that's not gonna be but at least that's that's better than in the food.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's that's truly, truly inspiring.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm um we're trying to do something similar here.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've I've created a nature-based co-op that we do, and starting in June, uh, we're expanding that into a smaller group because we have about 15 uh families that join us for our nature-based co-op once a week.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: But we're having a smaller subset of that group that's going to be meeting also now every week to do um to to do just um a more robust type of co-op, hands-on things, reenactments, me teaching science, like, you know, all these things that we think will help build their confidence and bring them like part of what you're saying here is um these things are kind of like rituals that they do together.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what that guy was talking about in the book, too, is that we need to create um rituals for for our kids.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: It helps bond them together, it helps them acknowledge there's something, a higher power um beyond them, and to give them leadership opportunities, which a lot of times they're not really getting uh, you know, in in our modern culture.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we're doing that too.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: We're having, you know, ours is like a one-room schoolhouse.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: We're having the older kids um learn concepts and then they're teaching them to like the middle school kids all the way down to our preschoolers.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I'm excited about it.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's fantastic.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: These are old, old become new.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, the yes, the old the old is now vogue again.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like yeah, as we see where we've gone astray.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like yeah, that's right.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the the the tick tock the tick tock culture is um, you know, it's it's gonna be it's gonna reap, it's gonna create a whirlwind, I think.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a good thing.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, course correct.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think we're in in uh we're already starting to do that some on the grass movements, you know, the ones where the parents are like, no, I want something different for my kids, you know.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: They say that like if you don't create um, if you don't create leaders in your community um of peers, like not just the parents and other parents being leaders and offering them internship opportunities, if you don't create leaders amongst their peers and create a situation, help them create a situation where they look up to each other, then they will look outward.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: And where are they looking?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: They're looking on social media, and on there we have these, you know, a lot of people following people um for doing crazy outrageous things, and the more outrageous things you do, the more followers you get.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's kind of a skewed way of creating these mentors.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want my kids to think of those people as their mentors, you know.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we're trying to create that too within our own community so they look up to each other as as well as looking up to the parents, you know, in the community.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, is is is value is value determined by outrageous behavior?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Nuts.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: So well, we better get some questions, or we're not gonna get the questions.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: 20 minutes.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: I thought that'd be a 10-minute update, but yeah, well, you both have the gift of gath.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, we do.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna let's try to run, let's try doing like a lightning speed, like we've done before.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: So here's one.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: This is a comment from Melissa Ford.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we started Joel to announce uh a month in advance when our Q live QA's are, and she's saying, Thank you so much.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um I had a question for Cena because of the notice being far out in advance.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: I was able to request the time off of work and count it as a medical appointment.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's great, that's fantastic.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, we're gonna do our best, Melissa, to keep uh keep you notified um a month in advance.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: We tried to announce the next QA during the current live QA.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then I will also be putting them on Discord, and Nolan sends them out in emails now in advance.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, next question, Jessica Ward.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: She's from Palm Beach County, Florida.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: She says, good morning.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: I recently listened to your Beyond Labels podcast episode um 137, do it yourself personal care products.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to know from Cena if there are a few brands of essential oils that she recommends.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: So um, Jessica, the the only brand that I buy really is from the Health Ranger.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, his are um they're tested for heavy metals, they're tested for glyphosate, they're tested for mycotoxins, they're not sourced from China, they are pure essential oils and they are organic.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I got I basically chose his because um I bought several products and I smelled them.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, asked my intuition which one my body likes.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: It and I was blinded, you know, we covered the labels and I just picked up the bottle.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: And every single time my body picked the Health Rangers products, and my sons have also had the same experience where their bodies picked the Health Ranger products.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: I personally have had great um response to them, whereas some other popular brands have made me sick when I've diffused them in the house, or like I've gone to a friend's house who is diffusing another popular brand, and I actually will get a headache.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's to me an indication they're not pure.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: But that's the brand I use.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ask, did you ask your dogs?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Your dogs have big noses.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: I could ask my dogs.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: I will, you know, I will try that and I will see.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do they pull their head away or like how did they respond?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are you joking?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't take that as a joke, Joel.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a great idea.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's right.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's just like um my beagles, so the two of my dogs.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Who are not as domesticated, they're more wild, they will not eat sugar.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like they won't eat fruit.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: They won't eat, you know, they won't eat any baked sugar products that we make because they know, like, you know, that's not what the body wants.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh okay, here's one.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, here's one for me and usual.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: This comes from Sarah, I believe it's um Badenheimer.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: She says, I love everything you're all doing and you talk about.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: I just listened to the Chronic and Autoimmune Disease Podcast.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: Cena mentioned potentially connecting people locally that listen to the podcast.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: I am so interested in that.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: Our Weston Price chapter is non-existent here.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: We have a chapter leader, but no one ever gathers.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I asked a second person who's told me that this week from a different area.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she said, I just want to let you know that I'm interested in participating in something like this.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: If a meeting space is needed, we can invite locals to our farm too.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: We live in Sandy Ridge in North Carolina.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: You all are amazing and give so many people hope that is needed in an era like this.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm hearing this a lot, Joel, about trying to connect in person.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like people love that, um, they love the podcast.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: We're they love that we're now connecting over Discord, they want to come to our talk, um, our summit next summer, but people want to connect locally.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, I mean, what stops us from prevent presenting uh from creating something like Weston Price did, you know, like maybe even just a simple directory that people can yeah, yeah.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um that that seems an easy way is obviously we don't want to give out emails to un uh unsolicited, but um uh if you and people are squeamish about just yeah, contact me and here's my email and go and go in public with that.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wonder if there would be a way to it's a lot of trying to not get too bogged down with you and I, but or Nolan, but if there was a way to have a clearinghouse, you know, basically if you if you want to be, if you want to connect with somebody, contact us, and you know, ideally it'd be done.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is a good thing for some uh you know uh high-tech thing where emails would come in and something would automatically sort it by, for example, a zip code.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say you put your zip code in, and if somebody, if somebody emails in and the zip code is within, let's say 50 miles, 50 miles, then all of those those 50 mile zip codes get get uh grouped.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: At some point you have to share your email.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at some point you have to, if you're gonna join something, you've got to but that's you opting into it though.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's not us giving it out.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's you opting into it.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just uh I mean a way to start would be if you're if you're interested in a local Beyond Labels support group, um, you know, uh re register here.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and and and put your obviously you have to put your put where you are, you know, not not maybe your physical address.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we don't need to get people started maybe county terrorists, but but at least at least you know, city, city and state, um just so folks would kind of know where where people are.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I just I just did the Midwest preparedness.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I was in Kansas.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: I did these two schools and I did uh this Midwest Preparedness Project.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: And there were people there that came up to me and said, Wow, I just I just met this lady here and she lives five miles from me.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they they didn't they didn't even know each other, they didn't know they existed, and they're five miles apart.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that often happens when you know when you when you kind of open up a forum like this.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would because I would personally love to get together with anybody who's in my area, like that would be fantastic.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like I would host, you know, monthly gatherings.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, so what do we maybe we do this?
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: Let me talk to Nolan, and we can also ask in the QA to we have one today.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: We'll ask in the QA if anybody has any expertise in that.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like maybe somebody in our community knows how to do that.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, my uh this is above my um knowledge, but um at a bare minimum, um like I use those Google, those Google Docs that you just send a link and then anybody can access that Google Docs.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: So the bare minimum, we could create something like that, and people could input their information into it.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, um yeah.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: But let me get together with Nolan and let's ask at the at the QA.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know, the community wants this, I want this.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's it's it's something that we can figure out how to do it because where there's a will, there's a way.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: There sure is.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um okay, this one this comes in from Jessica Revis.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Jessica.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um she says, Joel and Cena, thank you for providing us with such a hopeful and uplifting episode.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: She's referring to the one about um all diseases are reversible.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: I really value the information about ALS.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: It is 100% considered a death sentence by modern medicine.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that belief to me seems to be the deadliest aspect of the disease.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: I completely agree with you, Jessica.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: She says, My grandma died of this sad imbalance, and it brought tears to my eyes hearing that the 60-something people, um, hearing about the 60-something people who fully reversed this condition.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: Truly a hopeful story and a testament to the power of our God-given minds.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: This is, I mean, I have goosebumps.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, Jessica, I'm so grateful that you messaged in.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: This is exactly the impact I was hoping that we would have with this podcast is giving people a different perspective, um, giving people hope that and to be a beacon of light.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so to me, um Joel, we've received many emails similar to this.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we received one um from Dan, for instance, um, saying that your podcast played a huge role in shifting my perspective on contemporary Western medicine.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, he goes on to explain some of his journey and all these things that he has overcome.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um we have another one that came in from Kelly Smith sharing her um her journey and the how the many illnesses that she now has um overcome and talking about how our podcast has made a difference.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this is a great um a gift that that God has given us that we can continue to share more of with our community to provide this hope and to provide provide more solutions because clearly a lot of people are suffering and life doesn't have to be about suffering.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think it should be about thriving.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, does that sound good to you, Joel?
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: We'll we can continue doing more on providing more kinds of solutions for health health issues that people are are experiencing.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so here's one that came in from Susan Taylor Moroney, I believe, from New York.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: She says, couple questions.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, this is this is gonna be for you, Joel.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh wood chips.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: We saved some uh wood chips for composting, but the bees made a nest in it.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: How do you avert or deal with this problem?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh wait till wait till winter when the bees are gone.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do they die off in the winter?
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, they they yeah, they leave.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: They go, they leave.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: So just leave the wood chip pile alone until they go away in the winter?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: Until they go away in the winter.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh fruit, her next question is fruit trees.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I can't see how you guys are going to be able to pick the fruit with what Daniel has devised with the pole and the landscaping paper.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so maybe maybe describe that.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: Explain how Daniel's um creation has allowed him to pick the fruit.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then also she says we have blue jays that eat the unripened apple.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: So do we need a netting over our cages?
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so so when I talked about um Daniel's uh protective thing to build these, to to plant these trees, and it's worked beautifully.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh essentially uh he put the little, you know, these these came as little, whatever, you know, two foot, two foot tall saplings.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the the the critical thing is deer.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: Deer just just tear them to pieces.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so um so he he made two by two eight foot poles, pounded them in the ground with a post hole with a you know, t-post driver, and um and then just put a piece of like bird netting wrapped around, and that kept all the deer out.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, you you can't you can make an eight-foot-tall deer fence all the way around your whole thing, but that gets pretty, pretty expensive.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is a real poor boy way to just use some scrap lumber and um and make a little protective uh place around there, the tree can grow up through it.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh now this is we're going into the third year now.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: These trees are now, some of them are uh 10 feet tall.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so by the time these um wood wooden posts rot, by that time the tree is, you know, uh two and a half, three inches in diameter and and not as susceptible to the deer.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, you can go at that point, you can then go ahead and just um you know wrap the trunk with uh tree guard, you know, with this uh tree guard wrapper.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: That'll keep the deer from gnawing on it, rabbits from gnawing on it.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: But at least by the time the tree gets up there, you know, 10 or 11 feet, uh they're not gonna nip the, they're not gonna nip the the tips.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: That that's what kills the tree.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: The deer come along and they nip the little sweet, tender apple tips out there in the you know the ends of it.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, so my point is that you're not picking apples and struggling with this.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the when the trees begin to bare, now they're big enough for the tips to be up above the deer and that pressure is off.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not trying, you don't have both things going on at one time.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: One one is a a starter, a starter thing, and then you know, after the starter thing is gone, then you pick them.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: As far as blue jays concerned, uh, yeah, I mean, the the typical is to um, you know, to to throw bird netting over the trees, which can be done.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people do it.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, if if it's so bad that they're destroying your fruit, yes, uh, throwing some bird netting over is a real quick, cheap, uh, easy way to protect the trees.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and then Susan's final question is she said, I would love in all caps to hear more Saladin family stories from Teresa, Daniel, and everyone else in the family.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any chance of that happening?
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think they'd come on the podcast, Joel, and uh tell stories?
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Teresa won't.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh she's uh she's our she's our our our introvert rock.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I mean both of those with great um uh great appreciation.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um so she's she's just never been uh you know one to one on the way to get that, I would say, the way to get that is come visit the farm and Teresa will talk to you all day one-on-one.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: But she's not not gonna get on camera, she's not gonna go public, she's not gonna uh do that sort of thing.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Daniel is speaking quite a lot, actually, um uh at conferences now.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a lot.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's doing, I don't know what, 10 or 12 a year now.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, so he's out, he's out and about quite a bit.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um so fortunately I've uh got him arm twisted into, you know, we do this um farm like a lunatic video curriculum.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're up to 38 hours now of content, and the next course is going to be Daniel talking about how to raise rabbits.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: So so I've been I've been uh waiting for that for some time.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: And this summer it looks like it'll be the summer that it happens.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we're we're pretty excited about that.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's exciting.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Joel, I just an idea just popped in my head.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think so?
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: At our next Two Days of Truth event, this which will be next June of 2026, uh we're adding that new component where Friday night we're gonna have a hot dog, like we're gonna have campfires and we're gonna roast polyface hot dogs and have salad and basically have music and basically um sit around the the fire and fellowship.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that because Teresa will be there with us?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think she might be willing to sit in that kind of you know, smaller environment and share stories around the campfire?
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's an easy one.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, figured it was no, but we we've been we've been uh this year will be 45 years for us.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: And uh no, uh that uh it it's it it it's all she'll do to be able to stay here on the farm when everybody else is here.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's yeah, maybe Daniel will come in and share stories by the fire.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: He he probably would, yes.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: That would be cool.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_02: Daniel's really cool.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: I like him a lot.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um okay, now we're almost out of time, but I do want to ask this one more question of you because this is a pressing issue that came in from one of our listeners, um, Wasim.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's it's a rather long question.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so stay with me here.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm reaching out to Joel for advice on a pressing issue with my goat and sheep herd.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: With around 45 animals, we're in a subtropical climate and rotational grazing.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're doing that for eight to nine months on our annual pasture.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: The pastures are high diversity.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: They feature a mixture of winter and summer crops.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_02: So he says they have like persim, clover, oats, flax, chicory, wheat, ryegrass, alfalfa, fenugreek, mustard, um, cispania, sunflower, sorghum, and cowpea.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_02: Our animals spend an average of nine to ten hours on pasture daily and then are brought back to the shelter for the night.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_02: During the peak winter months, which is December, January, they live in confinement.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: They're fed a mix of alfalfa and berseme hay and small amounts of grain, including wheat, corn, canola, and sesame cakes.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_02: To minimize internal parasite issues, we've implemented several preventative measures, including regular moves, grazing about a brazing above four inches, and allowing adequate pasture rest, typically one month or more before returning.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_02: We're now in our second year, having had a successful first year with no no major issues.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_02: But this spring, 70% of our herd began showing symptoms.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_02: Over the past four weeks, we've lost three animals due to parasites, and we've ended up deworming the entire flock.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm struggling to identify what went wrong, and I would appreciate any guidance on what I could have done differently or how to move forward.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_02: What changes should I consider making to my management strategy?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's so sad.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're in diapers.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're in diapers, you're one year in.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and so I've been, yeah, I I was I was kind of waiting for the punchline here, but the the punchline is that you're you're only one year in, and and a um, you know, a workable system, a non-chemical workable system is a lot of moving parts.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: So your pasture has to be right, your soil has to be right, your animals have to be right, uh, all these things have to be right.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the things, the things that that you hear me talk about on our farm, for example, we've been over 60 years getting the soil right, getting the plants right, getting the animals right, getting our getting our management right, um, our our winter feeding uh right, those kinds of things.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, whether you're you know, whether your uh confinement feeding is is right, um I mean we used, you know, we used parasiticides, you know, for the first, goodness, I was uh, yeah, probably for the first almost 20 years until we uh can discontinued that about 40 years ago.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but but early on, I remember having you know wormy animals, and um and then we you know we gradually uh figured out the the carbonaceous diaper, you know, when we were winter feeding, and we um we started moving them, you know, uh more aggressively.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then we started we started um culling animals, you know, that were that were weak and or that showed symptoms, and we we culled them.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Greg Judy, who's another, you know, one of the luminaries in this field, um, you know, he he he is quick to tell you that it took him roughly eight eight to ten years of losing almost half of his sheep, half of his lambs every year, until he was able to eliminate using any warmers.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: And now he's got bulletproof sheep.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're just bulletproof, not only in their ability to stay in electric fence, but also in their lack of parasites.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: When Daniel started his rabbits, you know, people love to hear his rabbit stories now after 40 years, but when he was the first six or seven years, he had a 50% mortality rate in his rabbits uh uh until until the until genetic, you know, functional genetics finally showed their head, uh, uh adaptive genetics.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you start down this path, everybody that starts down this path usually is starting with you know relatively run of the run-of-the-mill genetics and run-of-the-mill um you know, soil and run-of-the-mill, you know, plants.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and all of those to get to optimal health, all of those, including your own husbandry, your own whatever, confidence around the animals sense your confidence.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: They sense whether you're, oh no, this guy, they sense that.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: They sense your stress.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so all of those things are part of a truly flourishing functional system.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that takes time.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: Just like learning any skill, developing anything, you know, making a painting, doing a sculpture, building a uh a good building, whatever, you know, it it um it takes time.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: So so my encouragement here is you're doing a tremendous amount of right things.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so the key is here, don't quit.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, stay with it.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and yes, and if you've got to use some crutches for now, use them.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, don't don't just lose your whole flock because you're too stubborn to realize, yep, we still need a few crutches.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, it's okay to use some crutches for a while.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: But only here's here's the the main thing I will tell you is don't treat the healthy animals.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: You say 70% are showing symptoms uh of parasites, treat them, but don't treat the other 30%.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: Mark those and don't don't rebreed, I mean, don't breed any more of the of the 70%ers than you can concentrate on the 30%ers.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: When we started weeding our flavour ourselves away from uh warbacks for heel fly warbles, we started running the calves through the headgate, and we had calves that had everything from one to 20, these great big grubs that would come up on their on their backs in the spring.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and and we noted, all right, the you know, the calf with 20, he's from cow number three, you know.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, cow number three doesn't get bred again.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: She's gonna go to a hamburger this year, you know, and and literally, literally, and of course, sheep are a lot quicker than cows because you know they have a they can have multiple lambs and things, but so you can do your genetic selection and improvement quicker on a flock of sheep than you can a herd of cows, just because the turnover and and the multiplying factor is better.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, I can tell you that within within just four or five years of of essentially taking the bottom end, the weakest individuals not breeding their parents, get rid of them and and doing that within just five years, we this was even before we had the eggmobile.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: All right, this is way, way back.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: But within five years, we automatically had several calves that didn't have a single hill fly warble on it.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and so you you can make improvement really, really fast if you if you aggressively cull, you know, the um the weak the weak animals.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so, so stay with it, be encouraged, use the crutches if you have to, don't treat the good ones, and let that let that uh adaptation and that um that adaptation to your context let it develop organically and you'll be you'll be fine and you'll be fine in 10 years.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: I love I love that, and I love that whole concept of give yourself grace, you know, like stop beating yourself up about things.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like you're speaking to me.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like stop beating yourself up, you know, give yourself a pat on the back for what you've done, learn and move forward.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I love that.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so we are over time.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_02: Joel, do you want to uh pose a community question?
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, a community question.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, okay.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um huh, so we talked about um I I think a good question might be have you encountered a farm in any kind of nature farm um school type setting?
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if so, did you like it?
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: Or did you see, could you see its effect on your kids?
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that they how do your kids respond when they get in nature on a farm, that kind of thing?
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_00: What what what kind of things do you see?
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'll post that in Discord and you know, feel free to answer there or underneath the episode.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_02: As always, Joel, thank you for your um enlightenment and excitement and passion.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's truly infectious.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_02: As we can see, I'm now moving along the spectrum of becoming uh a deeper and deeper homesteader because of you, which I appreciate.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you all for your questions as well.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_02: We love them.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: Keep sending them in, and um we'll try to get to more of them too on upcoming episodes.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_02: All right, we'll see you next week.