Latest / Exceptional Educators Podcast by FrenalyticsEDU / Getting Comfortable Being Uncomfortable: Dan Cox on Meaningful Discourse, Reflection, and Finding your Identity in the Education Space

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Getting Comfortable Being Uncomfortable: Dan Cox on Meaningful Discourse, Reflection, and Finding your Identity in the Education Space · Exceptional Educators Podcast by FrenalyticsEDU

• 0:00
  Nisha Srinivasa: Welcome to the exceptional educators podcast by Friendlytics edu, where innovation meets inclusion in education. I'm your cohost, Nisha Srinivasa.
• 0:10
  Matt Giovanniello: And I'm Matt Giovanello, CEO and cofounder of Friendlytics. At Friendlytics, we put special education and English language learners front and center. Our award winning Friendlytics EDU platform helps streamline progress monitoring, improve communication and compliance, and offer truly personalized learning to your students of all abilities.
• 0:28
  Nisha Srinivasa: Each episode of our podcast features candid conversations with district and school leaders, classroom change makers, EdTech founders, and industry executives, all dedicated to transforming learning for each student, especially our learners with unique abilities. With a focus on extraordinary educators and the exceptional students they serve, we explore the latest in special education, accessible technology, and inclusive leadership. In this episode, Exceptional Educators is exceptionally thrilled to welcome doctor Dan Cox, a veteran superintendent and founder of Endurance Edge. Dan's commitment to wellness, balance, and resilience impacts his perspective of leadership within the education world. We can't wait to dive into this conversation today.
• 1:12
  Welcome, Dan. Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:15
  Dan Cox: Thanks for having me.
• 1:15
  Nisha Srinivasa: We're really excited too. We have so many questions for you today. We can't wait to get to know you even a little bit more and have our listeners hear all about you. But to start us off, as an educator myself, something that comes up in my circles is the question, what is your why? And so that's what we want to start off with here today.
• 1:31
  What is your why? And what brings you to the world of education?
• 1:35
  Dan Cox: Yeah. You know, that's one of my favorite questions. And I think the heart of what we do and why we're in education. And where I like to start off with that is who I am and why I do what I do. First of all, I'm a husband.
• 1:48
  I'm a father. I'm a brother. I'm a son. I'm a friend. And through a series of life challenges, I've lost 100 pounds.
• 1:53
  And now I'm also an ultra marathon runner, a Go Rucker, an extreme obstacle course racer. I'm also a superintendent of schools, that's what I do, but it's not who I am. Now I like to help leaders, organizations, young people, develop their mental fitness and resilience and have some strategic clarity so they can meet life's challenges at their best. The heart of my why is I believe we can all do hard things. And if we embrace adversity, we can grow to new levels.
• 2:18
  We just have to get comfortable being uncomfortable and and just start.
• 2:21
  Matt Giovanniello: Dan, you're like an onion. There are so many layers of you to peel back. And each time I chat with you, I feel like I learn another angle and perspective of you that I just did not know before. But some in your inner circle might know you by living of the mottos, do the hard things and earning your sunrise. What's the backstory of these mantras?
• 2:38
  How did it help you get comfortable with being uncomfortable, and how are you personally using it to help achieve the true success that you deemed?
• 2:46
  Dan Cox: To keep it succinct, I I've been in education twenty five years. I've been an administrator almost all of those, all but two. It might be twenty six years now. And I've been an administrator at elementary, middle school, high school, now superintendent of fifteen years of unit school districts, and felt like I had a lot of experience in education and just had everything figured out. And then 2020 rolled around and we had a pandemic.
• 3:12
  And in the course of that pandemic, it really challenged my thinking and my approach to things and made me confront some hard truths that I could handle things better personally and professionally. And so I really started down this path to self improvement and really leading myself before I can lead others from a wellness perspective, an all around wellness perspective, not just fitness. During that time, my sister who was a lifelong educator herself and career principal, or longtime principal, she was diagnosed with cancer and she ultimately passed away from that cancer. And to honor her, I was going to run a marathon. I was not a runner at all.
• 3:50
  I was one hundred pounds heavier. I was an old college left tackle, not an endurance athlete. I'm like, I'm going to run marathon. People said, This is great. How about you do a half marathon?
• 3:58
  I did that. I fell in love with it. But then afterwards, I had a heart to heart with myself and said, Why did I really run that half and not the full marathon? And the reason I did is because I let other people lower my expectations and my belief in what I could do. But the other really hard truth I had to confront was I did the half marathon because I knew I could.
• 4:22
  I wasn't sure I could run the marathon. And from that point forward, I said, I will never put myself in a position where I know I'm going to be successful and where I know I can do it. And so I started, I've never ran a marathon to date. I think ran five ultra marathons now. Haven't run a marathon to date.
• 4:39
  I just skipped straight to the ultra marathons, right? And I put myself out there very accountable. Last year, last August, for example, I ran or attempted to run my first hundred mile marathon. I put it out everywhere, ultramarathon, let everybody know it. I made it a little over 80 miles or somewhere around the 80 mile mark before I crashed out.
• 4:58
  And that was one of the biggest growth experiences to be able to do that and felt so much better. Some look at that as failure, I don't. I look at it as real growth. And that's what I try to bring to my leadership and try to help with others too, is that if you look within the opportunity or within the challenges that we have, there are real opportunities there.
• 5:18
  Nisha Srinivasa: That is absolutely incredible. And it's really resonating with me, the idea of getting comfortable with something that is uncomfortable. And I wonder how you really embrace that and infuse that within your leadership. You started to talk about that a little bit. And I was wondering if you could share any sort of specific examples or ideas of how you've really integrated that philosophy into the work that you do as a superintendent.
• 5:41
  Dan Cox: I think as of late, I've been working a lot on this because it's not our natural tendency. Our human brain is wired for survival. But is that what we really want as educators? Is that what we really want as leaders and exceptional people? Do we want to just survive the basics and stay where we're comfortable?
• 6:01
  Or do we want to really grow? And if you think about, your challenges that you've had in your life, they may have not been pleasant, but you've grown significantly through them. Or look at the young people that we work with in education spaces. Children ask hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of questions a day because they're always learning and they learn through failure. As of late, to get over that survival instinct, especially having a lot of experience in education where I became very comfortable, I had to come up with a theme myself, which was let go, lean in, and wait.
• 6:37
  And let go to me is let go of the things I can't control and focus on what I can control, which is typically me, myself, and my actions. The lean in piece is lean in with vulnerability. Lean into faith, family, and friends with vulnerability. And the last piece is that's really hard for me, especially as a superintendent, is wait. And it means wait patiently and wait with faith that there is a plan and that you will grow and that it does take time.
• 7:09
  Many of us have heard we often overestimate what we can do in a year, but we underestimate what we can do in ten. And that's what that wait patiently comes along for me.
• 7:17
  Nisha Srinivasa: That is incredible. And I think is a really refreshing take on the way that your leadership is really impacting the folks that you're working with around you. And I'm wondering how you think that particular mindset that you've mentioned on embracing challenges, embracing discomfort, drawing from those experiences of students themselves, always being curious, asking questions and really not being afraid to dig in and dig deep into that. Do you have any perspective on how that particular mindset could be applied to special education and in this particular field where educators are often facing systemic barriers, limited resources and a lot of high stakes decision making?
• 7:59
  Dan Cox: Oh, 100%. I think first of all, as you were asking that question is, we are all capable and everyone is capable of way more than we give ourselves or others give us credit for. And when I think about our young people who have special needs, where are their unique talents? What do they see? Or how do they hear?
• 8:17
  How do they perceive the world differently? And how can we capture that and grow up on that? And I think we all have our stories. I certainly have mine of people in my life who have special needs and that they are just so genius and special. If you see that.
• 8:29
  I think the other piece is, in doing the hard things, what we could see as, you know, in ourselves or others as a disability, we need to change the perspective of that and see it as a gift and as a blessing. And sometimes the world's greatest blessing comes from the things you don't have or the things you don't get in life. I think often there's a book I'm reading now, it's a devotional book, Treasures in the Dark, and the author was an aspiring model and she had a stroke in her twenties. Her face was paralyzed. She was in a wheelchair, had to learn how to walk.
• 9:03
  Her modeling days were over, so she thought. And then fast forward, she ended up being the spokesperson for the American Stroke Association and her face is all over billboards. It's like what I thought was going to hinder me actually ended up leading me to things I never thought were possible. And I think about that with our people and our young people, especially with special needs and looking that as a gift.
• 9:24
  Matt Giovanniello: I did not know that story, and that is such an amazing trajectory to think about how such a truly life altering event like a stroke can have such positive outcomes, but you don't really know because that story hasn't been written yet. And so I think keeping the faith, staying positive, and trying to find kind of the light at the end of a very dark tunnel are things that are hard to keep front and center, especially in education, specifically for educators and leaders who are doing the hard things day in and day out. But there are really positive stories. You just might need to dig a little bit deeper to find them perhaps.
• 9:55
  Dan Cox: Well, and to the resources. And that's why I say just start. We so often say we need this, this, this, and this. And when in reality, and I'm as guilty as anybody, paralysis by analysis, right, We need to just start. I was once asked, How in the world did do you run that far?
• 10:13
  And I put on my shoes and put one foot in front of the other. When I started, I couldn't run for two minutes. Matt, you've heard this before. I put my shoes by my bed and I put them on first thing in the morning. And I just walked out the door and just kept at it day after day.
• 10:26
  And within three years, I I become an ultra marathon runner. And I'm gonna tell you again, I never ever ever thought I would do that.
• 10:32
  Matt Giovanniello: It goes to show you that to to set yourself a realistic goal and to do something that you're guaranteed to do successfully, you almost don't wanna do that. You may not even wanna prescribe a particular goal or set a goal so ridiculously insane that feels like you'd never do it, and yet here you are running a hundred mile marathons and doing it with grace and getting, I think, by your own definition, 81% of the way there with 81 miles before you collapse to the ground. That's a passing grade in my book. That's that's an incredible feat to be able to accomplish with any sort of with any sort of consistency or any sort of frequency, and yet you're you're doing them on the regular now. That's unbelievable.
• 11:04
  We were talking a little bit about resources just a moment ago, Dan. I think resources and lack of resources, whether it's professional development, whether it's physical or software resources within schools, can be one of the top reasons why educators are experiencing teacher burnout. The other is by poor education landscape of IEP funds for students with disabilities. From your vantage point as a district leader, what are some of the ways that you think schools and districts can better support special educators to reduce that feeling of burnout and to help them feel even more equipped to handle and do the hard things in your words? That's
• 11:37
  Dan Cox: a really good question. I've been blessed to work with tremendous special educators, but you also see how hard that is, especially after they're in it for many, many years and you can see wear strain on them. I can only imagine how many sleepless nights they have wanting to do the best for their children. So it sounds really simple, but I think listening and talking to them about what they need and what supports they need. They'll let us know.
• 12:04
  And I think it's just that regular check-in. And at times they don't know, but at least they know somebody hears them. I think the other piece of that, when we start looking at resources, is our partners who come in and work with us to provide the software solutions or professional development. The more that those organizations can come in and spend time in the schools, listening to the people that are using the product and what they need and help them solve problems versus selling a product. And I really think that's where we need to go, is instead of this mindset of I wanna buy this solution that's going to help this percentage of kids as a district superintendent, as a partner, well, we wanna sell this product.
• 12:45
  And as a educator, I'm going to add this now to my whole suite of the 50 other apps that I use, right? Instead, it's having a conversation like, here are the problems I have. How can you help me solve them? And then our partner is spending time in the classrooms. And you notice I'm using the term partner because that's what we need.
• 13:04
  Without that partnership all the way around doesn't work. I see myself as a superintendent, as a gatekeeper. You know, try to look at things from a business perspective and from a a academic fidelity and and and and a fiduciary responsibility. But once it gets past that, I can love the solution, but I'm not the one using it. I mean and that's where I think there has to be more dialogue and more involvement in that process.
• 13:26
  Matt Giovanniello: On behalf of us partners, we love that phrase as well because I think it's a refreshing take on not only this sales process, but it is in true partnership of supporting school districts and then school districts supporting solution providers right back who serve as those partners in modern day EdTech sales. I know you're at the South by Southwest EDU conference right now. Tell us about some of the ways that you see yourselves that you see yourself in your role as a superintendent and the superintendency role overall, the responsibility that you feel to not only provide or or serve as a mentor of sorts to new solution providers, but how do we make this understanding of ed tech sales more two way than maybe the past decades have been in the more one way transactional relationship that maybe in previous districts you've traditionally seen solution providers serving more as vendors than as partners?
• 14:13
  Dan Cox: Yeah. I think there's a few things. One of those, we're having a lot of conversation around now, and I hear this more from the investor world, is school districts are hard to work with, superintendents are hard to work with, bureaucracy, all of these things, right? And we're not. What we really want though is the problem solving and the partnership piece.
• 14:29
  I think that that's really at the heart of it. As a school superintendent, you know, what I look for first and foremost is we have to move the needle in student learning. If the product doesn't and the partnership doesn't result in improved student outcomes, that doesn't work. The next piece of that would be, you know, what problems do we have and how can you help us solve, you know, those problems? And I always tell people, I realize you have a lot of clients, but I want you to just have a little bit of ownership in my school district and feel like you're a part of us and us feel like we're a part of you.
• 15:01
  And as we move into this next era, from my perspective as a superintendent, it's about retention and depth of those relationships versus the growth. What I would look for is who's going to be my real partner and go deeper into that relationship and I can really invest in in my limited resources. I think a lot of the districts are going to be looking at that way because they're not going to be able to do as much as they were doing these past five or so years, seven years.
• 15:28
  Nisha Srinivasa: It's wonderful to see and hear that as an educator who many a time has not necessarily felt that opportunity. And so I wanted to thank you for the work that you're doing there. I was wondering if you could share a little bit more about how you feel that those partnerships, those relationships, those face to face moments that you are working so hard to cultivate within your area of work, how have you seen that impact folks maybe within your special education teams, but also generally your educators throughout the district?
• 15:56
  Dan Cox: No, we're in this era of teacher shortage, right, and teacher morale. And in general, people are looking for hope. They're looking for value. I've spent a lot of time working with educators and whether I've done it locally in my own district or, you look at the research, what educators and teachers specifically keep reporting back as the greatest barrier to their satisfaction or their efficacy in the job is recognition and value and time and resources. And I'm very aware people don't get into teaching necessarily to get rich.
• 16:30
  I think every educator should be able to live comfortably in the community in which they serve. I think that's the best way to do that. But more and more, people get into teaching and they can't afford to even live in the community that they're teaching in. I see that with young people straight out of college all the time. They want to make a difference and people want to feel valued.
• 16:47
  And that doesn't come through these financial things. And again, don't mistake me saying teachers shouldn't be paid or educators shouldn't be paid because they should and a lot more than they do. But it's the recognition and value piece. And I'm really concerned with where we are today. Every time you flip on the news, don't hear flattering stories about education.
• 17:04
  And if you take that away, what do people have? And the next piece is the time and resources. And, you know, time is a factor of what we talk about. To me, it's not time as much as it is prioritization and recognizing we can't do it all. And that takes conversation with your community and community partnerships and with your parents and to determine what does our school district, what do we want every kid to know and to be able to do by the time they leave our school district?
• 17:29
  And that will look different from district to district. And so it comes down to the conversation and people having a voice in that conversation.
• 17:36
  Matt Giovanniello: I think not only having a voice, but also making sure that that voice not only gets heard but acted on, especially in times of crisis like the unprecedented teacher soldiers that we're experiencing right now. I know it's by you. It's nationwide. You're seeing all the headlines, and I think you're you're spot on with that, dad.
• 17:51
  Dan Cox: Well, something is true there, Matt. You know, the the one thing that's really critical that that we do, especially in the superintendent and principal positions, to do what I call closing the communication loop. We ask people all the time their thoughts and feelings. And then what happens is we may be acting on them or it may be taking a long time to put those things in place and people have no idea what's going on. So we never go back and say, Hey, we heard you and this is what we're able to do.
• 18:22
  Or, Hey, we heard you and we can't do this and this is why. Or, Hey, we want to do something, but we don't know how. What are your ideas? But we don't go and close that communication loop and keep that loop going. It's incredibly important that it really needs to be a continuous cycle of communication.
• 18:39
  And I think that would be incredibly helpful to especially our people in the classrooms. Our teachers, they know we don't have all the answers, but if they can just feel like they've been heard and then hear the feedback of, I've heard you, but I don't know what to do either. It just is more palatable.
• 18:52
  Matt Giovanniello: Of course. That sounds very familiar in the private sector. We all want to feel the same way. Although, I imagine it's easier said than done to implement that at scale, especially with as large of staff. Even the smallest districts have and especially those of larger districts as well.
• 19:05
  So a a good end goal, but I do recognize that, certainly easier said than done. Relatedly, going back to the teacher shortage piece, just to share a couple of perhaps grim statistics just over the past five years as we look back during this pandemic period. Studies, again, consistently show that k twelve teachers are the number one most burnt out profession in The United States. That's twice as much as those in the health care industry that we have an unprecedented shortage there as well. Since the pandemic, we lost half a million educators in our school systems, over 500,000.
• 19:35
  And as you know, Dan, at the district level, more than half of districts in nearly 40 states have had a turnover in the past five years alone. I think one could easily deduce that burnt out educators and education leaders have, to your points before, lost their passion and their purpose. But when it comes to strategies, how do we move forward from this? Aside from those that you've shared so far in this episode, what else comes to mind that we can help people connect with on their why of teaching and learning to restore that positivity and help them affect more change
• 20:00
  Dan Cox: in It goes back to how I got to where I am today personally and professionally. And I know this is starting to sound cliche because you hear a lot of this talk, but it's not. It's real. You have to pour into yourself before you pour into others. There has to be real conversation with actionable ideas and solutions to allow people the space to pour into themselves.
• 20:23
  I just heard a really fascinating take on the Million Dollar Idea podcast. And it was talking about cross generational leadership, you know, Gen X and millennials and Gen Z. And they talked about, there was a book that was like, How to deal with millennials? I didn't think we were hard to deal with, right? Well, now it's how do we deal with Gen Z?
• 20:43
  And talk about the Gen Z not being ashamed of taking days off. There was an example of one Gen Z employee was taking her lunch hour to go work out. And the other people were really upset and jealous of that. But then the talk was just that. It was the jealous of that.
• 21:02
  Maybe somebody like me who's an old get off my lawn Gen X or might wish I didn't feel bad about taking time off. I'm kind of jealous of that. Right? And what I'm rambling on about that is I think we have to change the way we approach the workforce and listen to each other. I think about a relationship I have with a young entrepreneur who's 23 years old.
• 21:23
  And the likelihood of us striking up such a great relationship was really crazy because we have a lot of differences. But whenever that individual listens to my ideas and opinions and takes them, I really feel valued. Likewise, whenever I hear how this person is approaching business, it's like, Oh, this is really, really good. I have a lot to learn. So if we all hear that we have something to learn from each other, that helps.
• 21:43
  And then allowing our people space to pour into themselves. The last thing I'll say to that as an example, I was, I was in a board meeting probably three or four years ago and I was a little snippy, with my board of education. I don't know that anybody noticed it, but my board president did, Doctor. Christie Magoulias, who also happens to be a professor for educational leadership. And afterwards she called me and she's like, Hey, you okay?
• 22:07
  I'm like, Yeah. She's like, You were a little snippy that meeting. I'm like, Yeah. And this is why. I've been at the meeting.
• 22:12
  You know, I've at the district since 06:30, seven am. This meeting was going on till 09:00. I felt like we could have had it wrapped up. She goes, Well, what could we do to help you with that? We're just here to help you.
• 22:23
  And that was really something that I hadn't thought of before from the seat of the superintendency. Because I'm like, Why are they asking so many questions? Why aren't we done with this meeting? Why aren't they just taking my recommendations? And then that whole being confronted with, they're just trying to help me and me recognizing, yeah, I was probably short patience in that situation.
• 22:40
  I said, you know what would really help? On school board meeting days, if I could leave the office at 02:30, two forty five and go on a run so I can get back before the board meeting, I think that would help me tremendously. She's like, Well, why don't you just do that? Said, No, I don't want to be seen out on a trail somewhere running when it's three or 03:30 in the afternoon. She goes, Let me talk to everybody else.
• 23:00
  And, you know, I did get permission to do that. I've been doing that now for several years and it's been such a game changer. Just on board meeting days, being able to leave a little bit early, you know, an hour and a half early, I can go get a run-in, get freshened up and get back to a meeting, just change my whole space. Well, how can we do that for our educators? How can we allow them the space to pour into themselves, whatever they need?
• 23:20
  It may not be going on a run, but it may be something else.
• 23:22
  Nisha Srinivasa: Something this is making me think about is conversations that I've had throughout my career, especially in regards to professional development and the ways that I personally have been encouraged to stay overtime, work late, do the most, maximize sort of like the hours within the working day. Because there is a sort of sense of urgency that exists within the world of education, of really wanting to make sure we're serving our students, wanting to make sure that we are seeing the outcomes that we are desiring. And we've been pouring hours relentlessly into others, but rarely are sort of given the structures and systems to do that for ourselves. And so what do you feel like, in your opinion, might be that sort of missing piece? Where might we continue to improve thinking about teacher wellness as a space for continued development?
• 24:12
  Dan Cox: So I'll go back to let go, lean in, right? That's the let go and lean in part. And you heard me say that, you know, I'm a superintendent of the schools. It's what I do, but it's not who I am. I was working really hard at having outside of the superintendency because I realized how much I identified with that and how hard that was.
• 24:31
  Just like you saying, I work these hours. I pour my heart and soul into teaching. This is going to be a bit of a counter narrative. We need to have an identity outside of our profession. And I don't care what that is, whether it's gardening, it's photography, it's take an acting class on the weekend.
• 24:48
  I don't care what you do, but you have to do something. And you have to set boundaries. People will respect you for setting boundaries. In that boundary, one of mine, for example, is I will not check emails after 6PM. And likewise, I will not send emails during non working hours or on the weekend.
• 25:07
  Now, if I choose to work on the weekend and send emails, I schedule them to show up during people's workday. Those are boundaries I've set for myself. For you, may look different, but I really think we have to find another identity. And again, I said, this is what I do, not who I am. But recently I was challenged with that.
• 25:23
  And I really am going through a hard challenge and realized I still identify with the superintendency much, much more than I thought I did. And so I'm trying to expand my horizons even more realize that there's so much more to me as a person than just my profession. In a really magical, I guess, kind of way, it allows me to be better and more passionate about what I do.
• 25:46
  Matt Giovanniello: For those Dan who feel the need to break up with their identity or create a second identity outside of work, but feel a bit stuck in their way to do so. Where do you suggest that they start? I think you it's safe to say that you've been quite successful in your endeavors to do that, but it was not an easy path as it Where do educators who either feel they don't have license to do so begin, or perhaps they've been given so implicitly, maybe even explicitly, but they don't know how to kind of navigate that in early stages? Where do they start?
• 26:14
  Dan Cox: What's your value proposition? What value do you bring to the people around you at work? What value do you bring to yourself? And what value do you bring to others? You know, to to people the people around you, your friends, your family, your your students, your coworkers.
• 26:29
  And I think a good place to start with that is three columns. What do you love to do? And write everything down that you absolutely love to do. And then you write down the things, I can do them, but meh, right? But I have to do them.
• 26:43
  I have to take attendance. And then the things you absolutely hate doing, the things you just do not love. And that's a great place to start and to do a self assessment. But then you use those love pieces, the stuff that just gets you fired up and passionate to then say, This is who I am. This is what I believe, and this is what I'll do.
• 27:02
  And then, Am I bringing that to my job? And what I've found is that confronts us instead of being able to point the finger at all the reasons. Speaking from the education space. Oh, my principal. It's my principal's fault.
• 27:15
  My superintendent's fault. It's the parent's fault. Oh, these kids don't know how to behave anymore. Of these type of things go away when you look at that value proposition statement to just really do a self assessment. That's a place I like to start.
• 27:29
  And the other piece is, am I comfortable? Am I taking risks? Most people don't. And when things don't go my way, how do I respond? Do I blame somebody else?
• 27:38
  Do I get mad? Or do I look at that and see there's an opportunity to grow and get better here? There's always an opportunity for growth during our challenges. We just have to see it.
• 27:48
  Nisha Srinivasa: Do you see that potentially emerging as some kind of professional development arc in some sort of way of allowing teachers to look into their own selves? Because I think that teaching is such a reflective profession and does, in order to be the most effective, require you to really look inward and examine yourself. So what do you think might be an opportunity for school districts here or individual schools to better infuse that idea that you're talking about of a sort of doing a self assessment and being aware of what you're bringing to the space in which you're working? What do you think that future opportunity could potentially look like?
• 28:22
  Dan Cox: Yes. I mean, you can do that activity and you can do it with teams. You can do it individually. But you know, you said, what could we do? And we talk about that love and that passion.
• 28:31
  You know, how can we bond as teams? How can we bond as organizations and with our students and the people that we serve? Teachers are incredibly neat people. We think of educators as kind of these robots and these like little local celebrities and personalities. So like, you ever had that experience when a student or a family sees you out?
• 28:48
  Oh my gosh, they're out. No, they're not wound up in a closet waiting to be turned back on for tomorrow. Well, what if you had at a school improvement day, you had a grown up version of show and tell. These are my talents. This is what I like to do outside of work.
• 29:04
  This is the things that I do and why I do them. I would really be interested to hear what my colleagues do and the unique talents. And likewise, what if we provided just a little space where teachers just spend a little bit of time once a week or once a month teaching about their passion? You know, I once saw a teacher teaching about photography. She loved photography, was a phenomenal photographer.
• 29:26
  And the passion in which she spent that time talking about that with her kids during just a very short period was so, so cool. What if we allowed our people to talk about what they're passionate about? And likewise, what an impact that is for our students when they see, wow, well, they're not just teaching this subject. These are the cool things that they do and they're really neat people. And I think that's the piece, Nisha and Matt, is we have to humanize education.
• 29:51
  Period. I've talked a lot about humanizing the superintendency because that's my space, but it's humanizing the profession. Period. Because that's going to help allow for that value. Nobody cares more about the success of young people outside of their own parents and their own families than their teachers, than their educators.
• 30:08
  So let's showcase that and showcase what cool people are working in our schools.
• 30:13
  Matt Giovanniello: I think that's the perfect way to sum up in one sentence the biggest, maybe broadest, but biggest piece that needs to change here. If we humanize education, it can solve a lot of the other problems we've been speaking about in this conversation. It can help educators and district leaders reconnect with their why. It can help improve student outcomes. It can decrease in part mental health crises.
• 30:31
  It can reduce the teacher crisis shortage. It's going to, I think, impact all different facets of education. And honestly, this feedback and embracing this mindset, I imagine, would impact many other industries too. But we're here talking about education at least to start, but I think that it has this trickle effect on many aspects of people's lives, both in and outside of this industry. So I appreciate your perspective on that, Dan.
• 30:51
  I think it definitely holds true in my mind, and I'm glad that we're shedding some more light on it. As we wrap up today's conversation, I have one more question for you. It's a reflective question that kind of encapsulates most of today's discussion points, and we ask all of our guests the same question. It is, what does being an exceptional educator mean to you?
• 31:11
  Dan Cox: Get comfortable being uncomfortable. Never stop learning. If you're comfortable, you've probably stopped learning or stopped stretching yourself. So remember what it was like when you were a kid. Remember what it was like when you were a first year, educator.
• 31:27
  Remember your first time and how much you were learning. You probably, were very excited and you had a lot of failures. So just continue to stretch yourself and remember that you're capable of doing more than you think you are. And those around you are inherently capable of doing more than they think they can do. And that's what the heart of education is.
• 31:46
  Nisha Srinivasa: That was incredible. I couldn't have summed it up better myself or resonated more of what you just shared. Thank you so much for being here today. We are so grateful to have had this conversation. So illuminating, I'm taking away so much from just thinking about that idea of really being comfortable with discomfort.
• 32:04
  It's really inspiring and making me think about the ways I can infuse that in my day to day.
• 32:09
  Matt Giovanniello: Yeah. Thank you for lending your voice today. Thanks for keeping it real. Thanks for embracing and instilling humility and honesty and a a fresh perspective on the world of education that you find yourself in and the way that we all find ourselves in this space too. Really appreciate your time.
• 32:21
  Thank you for listening to today's conversation. Dan, I will see you very soon.
• 32:25
  Dan Cox: For sure. It's always a pleasure.