Latest / Live in the Lab Schools / Ep #13: AI Invited - Responsible AI Use In Schools Without Offloading Learning

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Ep #13: AI Invited - Responsible AI Use In Schools Without Offloading Learning · Live in the Lab Schools

0:09
Ben Webb: Welcome back to the pod.
0:10
Ben Webb: This week, artificial intelligence.
0:14
Ben Webb: Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something.
0:18
Ben Webb: So we get to talk about AI, its implications in the classroom, what we should and should not be doing, and how is it changing the role of a teacher?
0:25
Ben Webb: Stick around.
0:26
Ben Webb: My name is Ben Webb.
0:27
Ben Webb: This is Andy Govey.
0:29
Ben Webb: This is Live in the Lab Schools.
0:35
unknown: Mr.
0:35
Ben Webb: Govey, we are to the topic that I've been wanting to talk about since the beginning.
0:40
Andy Goveia: This was in the the so for everybody listening, we've we've been sharing a notion planning notebook online, basically.
0:50
Andy Goveia: And one of the first when we started this idea back in August, one of the first episode ideas was AI.
0:58
Andy Goveia: And it's been sitting there because we prioritized people.
1:03
Andy Goveia: As you should.
1:04
Andy Goveia: As you should, which is very fitting that now, after we've prioritized people, we'll now talk about robots.
1:11
Ben Webb: And just thinking back to the beginning of the school year, how so much has changed in such a little amount of time.
1:19
Ben Webb: And it's going to be completely different if you come back to this episode in next school year.
1:25
Ben Webb: Yeah.
1:26
Ben Webb: And so I'm excited about this one.
1:28
Ben Webb: I think this year, especially for me, it's been a big exploration of what we should be doing in schools in regards to artificial intelligence, how it has changed from okay, gen uh gen AI to agenic AI to we're just trying to understand what an LLM does.
1:46
Ben Webb: And so for me, I'm just excited to kind of see am I even in the right wheelhouse?
1:52
Ben Webb: Am I, as a colleague, like, are you seeing the same things that I'm seeing in the classroom?
1:57
Ben Webb: But also, like, what are the things that we should be looking ahead to?
2:01
Ben Webb: So a little bit of a futurist kind of a perspective, but also just the challenge of it's it can do so much.
2:09
Ben Webb: Yeah.
2:10
Ben Webb: So I guess first question I want to throw to you what problem is AI actually solving in schools?
2:18
Ben Webb: I think when we talk about these are tools, and I think one of the hot takes, I so full disclosure, using perplexity AI, using Magic School, using something like the Notion AI that we have, I asked for some, what are some hot takes?
2:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:36
Ben Webb: The first hot take that it gave me was AI isn't making students cheat more.
2:40
Ben Webb: It's exposing that our assessments were already easy to cheat on.
2:45
Ben Webb: And I thought that was such a wonderful quotation to get from an AI.
2:48
Ben Webb: And then the first question, of course, was okay, what is AI actually solving?
2:54
Ben Webb: So choose your own adventure on this one.
2:57
Ben Webb: How do you feel about that?
2:58
Andy Goveia: I that hot take is just it's the here's the problem.
3:02
Andy Goveia: It's such a hot take because pedagogically, students are able to cheat when there's a flaw in the system you put in place.
3:10
Andy Goveia: Oh, agreed.
3:10
Andy Goveia: And so just because AI can do a task doesn't mean that your assessment was easy to cheat on.
3:20
Andy Goveia: The assessment wasn't broken.
3:22
Andy Goveia: It wasn't broken.
3:23
Andy Goveia: It's just that this tool is able to get around the what you've may have created.
3:27
Andy Goveia: Now, I'm also not defending the fact that, yeah, some students do cheat.
3:32
Andy Goveia: It is a reality of what we run through in in teaching, and you have to figure out how to handle it, right?
3:38
Andy Goveia: Like here we are right now, and we're doing a research project.
3:40
Andy Goveia: I think you all are as well, doing a research project in my class right now.
3:44
Andy Goveia: And I have a couple kids that somehow, it's like somehow Palpatine returned, somehow got into copiloting.
3:51
Andy Goveia: Um, and we've been talking through like they're citing copilot as their source.
3:56
Andy Goveia: This is the maybe this is the brilliance of why I disagree with it's making easier to cheat.
4:00
Andy Goveia: Kids are just saying they're using it.
4:01
Andy Goveia: Like in before they'd go, no, I I didn't, I know.
4:04
Andy Goveia: What do you mean I was using AI?
4:05
Andy Goveia: Now it's the cited source for a couple of these kids.
4:08
Andy Goveia: And once we're sitting down going through their outlines that they've done in the research, I'm like, copilot's not a source.
4:13
Andy Goveia: Shouldn't have used it.
4:13
Andy Goveia: It's not a source.
4:14
Andy Goveia: Well, let me go see what sources it used.
4:16
Andy Goveia: And I said, that's why I don't want you using co-pilot magic school chat.
4:21
Andy Goveia: I don't want you using these AIs for content acquisition or content learning because it's pulling from somewhere else anyway.
4:30
Andy Goveia: YAT neatly packages it for you.
4:32
Andy Goveia: You need to go make sure that source is credible because sometimes the source that it's going to spit out is not credible at all.
4:38
Ben Webb: Right.
4:38
Ben Webb: It's it's a it's a fiction, it's not even a real source.
4:41
Ben Webb: It just happens to look like it has an APA citation.
4:44
Ben Webb: Right.
4:44
Ben Webb: And I shared this during the Lightning Launch AI symposium we went to at ISU.
4:48
Ben Webb: Yeah.
4:48
Ben Webb: Shout out to the College of Ed.
4:49
Ben Webb: That was great.
4:49
Ben Webb: Yeah, it was a wonderful day.
4:50
Ben Webb: And one of the things that I shared out was like, I am curating some things in Magic School for my kids.
4:55
Ben Webb: And I've got kids who are asking me, hey, can you also make something that does this?
4:59
Ben Webb: And I get to have that conversation about how that tool I don't want to make.
5:03
Ben Webb: I don't want that to be in existence.
5:05
Ben Webb: Yeah.
5:05
Ben Webb: So, like they, for an essay they did back during our Holocaust unit, they had a couple of different like prompts and a couple of different tools that I built in Magic School that were purposeful in a certain safe sandbox.
5:18
Ben Webb: Ask questions, review their work, give them suggestions.
5:21
Ben Webb: But it was always like, okay, you have to be the one making the and it's making the changes.
5:25
Ben Webb: The tool won't do that for you.
5:26
Ben Webb: I know Copilot could do that, but here's why I don't want you to use that.
5:30
Ben Webb: And I think I'm having those conversations right now in our research paper in the freshman level because they're saying, Hey, can you make a tool that does this?
5:37
Ben Webb: And I'm like, I want a human to be the one giving you that feedback.
5:40
Ben Webb: They're like, Can you make a can you make a a bot that would help me with my thesis?
5:44
Ben Webb: And I'm like, I could, but I don't want to because I want to be a part of that process as the teacher.
5:49
Andy Goveia: So it's really interesting.
5:50
Andy Goveia: You and I took very different approaches to this.
5:52
Andy Goveia: And so for their thesis with me, I didn't tell them that I had, so I built them a chat bot to help them.
5:57
Andy Goveia: Ah I built one to help them, but they didn't get it until after they had written one themselves.
6:02
Ben Webb: Okay, I like that.
6:03
Andy Goveia: So their job was, hey, answer your big essential question.
6:06
Andy Goveia: I want it to be one sentence.
6:07
Andy Goveia: And there were some kids that could not get it down to one sentence.
6:10
Andy Goveia: They had three or four sentences.
6:11
Andy Goveia: And so for those kids, I was like, hey, you'll see there's a magic school link in classroom.
6:15
Andy Goveia: If you go click on it, it's gonna prompt you and give you some suggestions on how to make your answer more concise.
6:22
Andy Goveia: It's gonna help you put the right words in place, but you're gonna input what you think the right answer is.
6:29
Andy Goveia: And it's also gonna tell you if what you've written is unrelated to your question.
6:34
Ben Webb: Yeah, or even unrelated to the the rubric that I've provided.
6:38
Ben Webb: I've given the instructions to Magic School to like say check their work against this.
6:42
Ben Webb: Yeah.
6:42
Ben Webb: So I think, okay, so what I'm hearing is It's so interesting we took different approaches.
6:46
Ben Webb: I'm and I'm thankful we got to do the opposite thing because I I think that kind of leads to my second question, which is what is good use in a classroom look like?
6:55
Ben Webb: The metaphor that I always use is driver's education.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:58
Ben Webb: Like I understand that there is a tool that can do this for you.
7:01
Ben Webb: I understand that there are cars that can drive themselves and can navigate and give you good directions and GPS.
7:07
Ben Webb: But when it comes to the driver's test, you are the one that has to show mastery of those standards.
7:12
Ben Webb: So in the driver's test metaphor, the AI can't help you.
7:16
Ben Webb: Yeah.
7:16
Ben Webb: You have to show that you can do all those things.
7:18
Ben Webb: So does good AI use take that all away where it's like, yes, these are tools, but regardless, you can show that you can do everything without the tool even present.
7:30
Ben Webb: Yeah.
7:31
Ben Webb: Does that is that an agreement with you?
7:33
Andy Goveia: I, yeah.
7:33
Andy Goveia: So like what I love your driver's ed metaphor.
7:36
Andy Goveia: It doesn't work for my grade level.
7:38
Andy Goveia: But the way I've tried to frame it for the kids, like when they're like, why can't I just ask a chatbot to do this or tell me the answer?
7:45
Andy Goveia: I always frame it to them like, are you gonna just rely on this chatbot anytime you walk into any situation?
7:50
Andy Goveia: Are you gonna always be looking at your phone, typing into your chatbot, what am I supposed to do to order my dinner?
7:55
Andy Goveia: Like, you can't rely, you can't give up the cognitive load.
8:00
Andy Goveia: Yes.
8:01
Andy Goveia: Like that's no offloading.
8:02
Andy Goveia: I don't believe you can cognitively offload to AI effectively in a classroom.
8:06
Andy Goveia: Now, what I do believe is that AI can help you ease your cognitive load.
8:11
Ben Webb: I like that.
8:12
Andy Goveia: It can help like this is why, and I this is an unpaid endorsement of Magic School.
8:16
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
8:17
Ben Webb: Um maybe it'll be a sponsor next year.
8:20
Andy Goveia: I'm an ambassador for Magic School.
8:22
Andy Goveia: I did all their extra training.
8:24
Andy Goveia: Um, and I love the product because you, as a teacher, put the tool in the sandbox for them that you believe supports what they're doing.
8:36
Andy Goveia: So, like for an example of that, easing the cognitive load, for most of my summatives this year, I've given them a study bot that will point them to the resources we've studied.
8:46
Andy Goveia: So if they go, for example, where can I learn about the camp system and the Holocaust?
8:51
Andy Goveia: It's gonna spit out because it has access to my lesson plans or classroom posts, it's gonna spit out the day of the classroom post and the title of resources that they could go to to find those answers.
9:01
Andy Goveia: It's not gonna tell them the answer, but it's gonna go, hey, it looks like in this reading on special trains, you could learn how they arrived at the camp system.
9:09
Andy Goveia: It's gonna point them and help them ease the cognitive load of, hey, where do I find that?
9:15
Andy Goveia: But it's not gonna ease the cognitive load of them having to make sure they know it.
9:19
Ben Webb: So the quotation that I want to give you, it's from an article about brain maxing that I was sharing with the English department.
9:24
Ben Webb: Brain maxing.
9:25
Ben Webb: Brain maxing.
9:26
Ben Webb: I I have gotten I am look at you, Jin Alpha, Z, whatever.
9:31
Ben Webb: Hey, I I did say in the last episode that I am uh different from introvert and extrovert.
9:38
Ben Webb: So so the the way that I would kind of describe it is you don't want their mind to be disincentivized.
9:46
Ben Webb: Yes.
9:47
Ben Webb: You cannot devalue the the fact that your mind and your thought process has to be the the determiner.
9:54
Ben Webb: You are the decider.
9:56
Ben Webb: Yeah.
9:56
Ben Webb: So I like I like that explanation that you were going with.
9:59
Andy Goveia: It's it helps ease the load, not replace or take over the load.
10:03
Andy Goveia: Now, I will also say there are some tasks I've just given up to AI.
10:07
Andy Goveia: Like there, like I, for example, I, and I think a lot of you all here do this too.
10:12
Andy Goveia: I update an in set of information slides that are displayed on a TV in the hallway.
10:16
Andy Goveia: And before I gave it over, I was editing a Canva every week at the tune of 10 to 15 minutes a week, editing the Canvas slides, making it look nice.
10:31
Andy Goveia: And then, and again, I am fully, and I want to say this for everyone listening, I am aware of the data, the energy implications.
10:39
Andy Goveia: I am aware of all of these pieces that affect that when you use AI, you're making a conscious choice to affect X, Y, Z.
10:47
Andy Goveia: Yep.
10:47
Andy Goveia: And I am well aware of the fact that when I do generate an image, one image a week, to handle the lunch menu, for example, or to handle our schedule.
10:56
Andy Goveia: But I mean, that's gonna generate it in 30 seconds.
10:59
Andy Goveia: I give it the text input, it generates, I have my image ready to go.
11:03
Andy Goveia: That that load is perfectly fine in my case of I'm making something that is not original work, I'm not promoting it, I'm not publishing it.
11:12
Andy Goveia: It's helping students know what's going on.
11:15
Andy Goveia: And so it saved me now 30-ish minutes a week by offloading that specific cognitive load.
11:22
Ben Webb: One of the words we teach kids when we're talking about um bioethics is beneficence, maximizing the gains, minimizing the harms.
11:30
Ben Webb: Yeah.
11:30
Ben Webb: And so, like in that case, you are then offloaded to go do something else that's equally, if not more important, because you were able to offload this one part to the tool.
11:40
Ben Webb: Yeah.
11:41
Ben Webb: Um I think that's really crucial.
11:44
Ben Webb: Like you're you're you're making that conscious effort and also you're being transparent about it.
11:48
Ben Webb: Yeah.
11:48
Ben Webb: One of the things that I heard a bunch um at a symposium in Champagne, Urbana was that's similar.
11:54
Ben Webb: Like you have to be transparent about its use.
11:56
Ben Webb: And I I mean, I put it comically at the end of all my emails that I'm, you know, using a bad Chat GPT or co-pilot in my case, like to proofread and check my emails and all that kind of stuff.
12:07
Ben Webb: But like you have to be clear, okay, this is the tool and what was its use, so that especially, you know, colleagues can then know, okay, this is what you did, but also for the kids that it's okay to use this tool.
12:20
Ben Webb: They shouldn't be afraid for use in certain cases, as opposed to like just like when the internet was invented, oh, I'm just downloading a paper and turning it into my own work.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:30
Ben Webb: There's a difference between blatant plagiarism and using the tool, but not offloading the tool to do the work for you and then saying that this is your own work.
12:39
Ben Webb: So, like, there's that academic integrity that you have to model as the teacher, I think, if you're going to use AI in the classroom.
12:45
Ben Webb: Yeah.
12:46
Ben Webb: Here's a second hot take that I want to throw at you.
12:48
Ben Webb: Yeah.
12:48
Ben Webb: Throw it.
12:48
Ben Webb: Because this is one I'm getting into argument arguments with my colleagues about right now.
12:52
Ben Webb: Banning AIs and AIs in schools right now is like banning calculators in the 80s.
12:57
Ben Webb: Technically possible, but educationally backwards.
13:02
Ben Webb: I have been waiting to ask that question of you all year.
13:06
Andy Goveia: So I'm I'm gonna actually go back to your FDA metaphor reference.
13:13
Ben Webb: Oh, yeah, before the before we started recording.
13:15
Andy Goveia: Before we started recording, we just were having a brief conversation about you wouldn't put something into your body that's not FDA approved.
13:22
Andy Goveia: Yes, the tools are here, they're here to stay.
13:24
Andy Goveia: But banning them outright, I don't think is gonna be sustainable because of simply what and I I don't believe that the workforce should dictate education.
13:35
Andy Goveia: And I don't believe that education should dictate workforce.
13:38
Ben Webb: For those of you at home, there's just a uh look of pain on Andy's face.
13:41
Andy Goveia: I I don't, and I never believe that because, or I would say this even for middle school, I never believe that because of what high school needs to do, that middle school should be shaped by what high school needs to do, nor should elementary be shaped by middle, or vice versa.
13:51
Andy Goveia: Just because what elementary does doesn't mean middle school should adapt, high school shouldn't necessarily adapt.
13:55
Andy Goveia: There should be this fusion of what was, what is, and what will come next.
14:00
Andy Goveia: So my very hot take on AI is banning it outright, terrible, not gonna work.
14:07
Andy Goveia: Simply because what comes next in their life, competency in the tools may be vital to the job they're gonna do or the role they have in society, or just simply living.
14:17
Andy Goveia: There are tools that can make your life so much easier at home that are AI and not what I think the the middle ground answer of what is, what was, and what will be.
14:27
Andy Goveia: It's like the ghosts of Christmas past, present, future haunting us.
14:31
Andy Goveia: Thank you, Dickens.
14:32
Andy Goveia: Um or the Muppets, my personal favorite version.
14:36
Andy Goveia: Yeah, as I say, that is the best version.
14:39
Andy Goveia: Um you've got to just do it responsibly.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:44
Andy Goveia: You you can't, and this is I think our both of our schools have kind of done this a little bit.
14:48
Andy Goveia: We really have taken it slow here in the lab schools on unfettered AI use.
14:54
Andy Goveia: I mean, because I teach 13, 12, 13-year-olds, that magical SOPA law comes into effect on what kids can voluntarily agree to and not voluntarily agree to.
15:03
Andy Goveia: We have a use contract with magic school.
15:06
Andy Goveia: It took us until this year to get that use contract.
15:09
Andy Goveia: So before that, it was just staff use only.
15:12
Andy Goveia: Kids weren't really using these tools.
15:14
Andy Goveia: And I'm grateful that I've been able to.
15:19
Andy Goveia: We didn't ban it, we just took our time to get it right.
15:22
Andy Goveia: And I think that's my answer to that hot take.
15:25
Andy Goveia: Banning it, yeah.
15:26
Andy Goveia: And and math class has adopted calculators and they've done it in a ped, at least when I was in school, a pedagogically appropriate way that it's a tool that supports not like we said with AI, it's not offloading necessarily, it's making the load easier.
15:42
Andy Goveia: And I think to do that effectively, banning just isn't gonna work.
15:45
Ben Webb: Well, and personally.
15:47
Ben Webb: And I and I would agree with that.
15:48
Ben Webb: I mean, choose whatever metaphor you want for that.
15:50
Ben Webb: You if you make something off limits, that doesn't teach the kids why it's either dangerous, why it is important to understand the implications of that.
16:02
Ben Webb: Like to to go with just that whole concept.
16:07
Ben Webb: Like, I can show a kid where the line is in the in a classroom.
16:11
Ben Webb: I can show them when I pull up co-pilot in class or when I pull up my own Chat GBT or my own Gemini, which Gemini is blocked right now for that very reason.
16:20
Ben Webb: We're trying to do it deliberately and carefully and making sure that we are following SOPA and those kinds of like we have that responsibility as teachers to protect student privacy and data.
16:31
Ben Webb: And until we get that signed contract, we're gonna have to, you know, show kids this is what you can do outside of class, outside of like the school environment, but here's what you can do within that learning environment, and we're gonna kind of go over those literacy school, those literacy uh pieces.
16:46
Ben Webb: So we want you to be AI literate.
16:48
Ben Webb: I'm glad we don't have to teach them how to do certain pieces because with Agenic AI, you can kind of just give it the task and it will then find the right employees to then do the work for you.
16:59
Ben Webb: But I also think to just ban it outright, to ignore its existence is almost like we are neglecting our mission to prepare these students for their future.
17:09
Ben Webb: Whether that's going to be career-driven or not, I think right now in corporate America, we're seeing a lot of AI because we're being told to.
17:18
Ben Webb: But I also think we need to be the ones, going back to the Jurassic Met Jurassic Park metaphor that I always, or line that I always kind of cite, just because somebody can do something doesn't mean you should.
17:28
Ben Webb: Right.
17:28
Ben Webb: And I think we have to then, like the dinosaurs, evolve.
17:32
Ben Webb: And we have to see how our like the workforce is gonna change.
17:36
Ben Webb: Um, you know, how we then create and how we generate ideas and how we challenge ideas.
17:42
Ben Webb: Like all of that is really crucial in this process, but you can't rush into it and then say, oops.
17:49
Ben Webb: Yeah.
17:49
Ben Webb: Like three months into it, you can't be like, oh, well, all of this data is now out there, or we trained these models.
17:55
Andy Goveia: And especially with 12-year-olds like I teach, you can't and we're in a great system where like, yes, we could jump all the way in and go, oh, crud.
18:04
Andy Goveia: But at the same time, what habit, what thing did maybe a kid take away that is gonna be detrimental for them in the future if you were to just jump in and do it that way.
18:14
Andy Goveia: I actually think a really good comparative thing is the idea of one-to-one, one-to-one 15 years ago.
18:20
Andy Goveia: Do you go one-to-one?
18:21
Andy Goveia: Well, what'll that do if a kid has a a laptop all the time, or if they have an iPad all the time, what's that, what's that gonna do?
18:27
Andy Goveia: They're just gonna be on it all the time, they're gonna be doing their work.
18:29
Andy Goveia: And we as teachers figured out how to pedagogically to the best of our ability, make that work in our classrooms.
18:37
Andy Goveia: I think AI is the same thing.
18:38
Andy Goveia: You just have to figure out how to do it in a way that is authentic to what you're doing, that responsibly teaches what they can be ethically used for.
18:54
Ben Webb: I'm thankful that we are at the intersection of technology and education frequently.
18:59
Ben Webb: Yeah.
18:59
Ben Webb: And I think we're doing a lot of those things really well, but cautiously while also innovating and saying, okay, this is how I'm gonna graduate you out of the tools that I've made in magic school into now.
19:11
Ben Webb: You can make the tool.
19:12
Ben Webb: Now you can make the support, now you can create the thought partner.
19:15
Ben Webb: And that takes time.
19:17
Ben Webb: The same way that we want our students to take their time on a research paper.
19:22
Ben Webb: Yeah, I also want them to see that process that they go over to find your research, clarify the research question, create a thesis that captures the argument and then cite the evidence, then supports and proves their argument.
19:35
Ben Webb: Yeah.
19:36
Ben Webb: But that's what the AI is doing in milliseconds, but it's so crucial for them to be able to do that because the AI tool's not always gonna be there.
19:45
Ben Webb: Yeah.
19:45
Ben Webb: And I really, really, really want them to walk away with that mastery.
19:49
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
19:52
Ben Webb: For sure.
19:53
Ben Webb: Do we just end the episode there?
19:54
Andy Goveia: Is there more I mean, you tell me, you've got the questions.
19:57
Andy Goveia: Well, okay, so I don't want to take I don't want to dominate, but at the same time.
20:01
Andy Goveia: I this is a passion area for you.
20:03
Andy Goveia: I mean, we've had episodes where I have been a dominating voice.
20:07
Andy Goveia: I've listened to our episodes.
20:08
Andy Goveia: I I can dominate the conversation from time to time.
20:12
Andy Goveia: So having one where the Mr.
20:14
Andy Goveia: Webb is featured, I'll make all my eighth graders listen to it so they know what they're getting into next year.
20:18
Ben Webb: Oh, I those poor eighth graders.
20:21
Ben Webb: Um welcome.
20:23
Ben Webb: Uh, so I think the next question that I would ask, and again, some of these are from perplexity, and some of these are me just kind of like vibe feeling out what you think about this.
20:34
Ben Webb: So, what skills do students now need because of AI?
20:40
Ben Webb: Like before AI, there were certain things we wanted them to be able to do.
20:43
Ben Webb: Yeah.
20:43
Ben Webb: And at times we want them to be able to use the calculator.
20:46
Ben Webb: At times we want them to be able to do and show their math and show all of their work.
20:51
Ben Webb: Show their thinking.
20:51
Ben Webb: Yeah.
20:52
Ben Webb: And sometimes when they write a paper, I do care about them turning in the drafts and saving the different versions of their work.
20:59
Ben Webb: But sometimes I just care about the final product.
21:01
Ben Webb: Because in English, we don't show our math, we show the final product.
21:04
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
21:04
Ben Webb: So, what are skills and what are things that students need now because of AI?
21:10
Ben Webb: How has it changed education?
21:13
Ben Webb: Because I mean, this is something that it didn't come from education.
21:16
Ben Webb: It didn't come from us saying this is the something that we need.
21:20
Ben Webb: If anything, it's us reacting to, well, now there is a nano banana too that can create an image of the same quality or less or more than what a student's able to do, what a teacher can do.
21:33
Ben Webb: Uh, an outline can be created by Gemini like that.
21:37
Ben Webb: And it could be accurate, it could be better than what I can make.
21:40
Ben Webb: It could also be worse.
21:41
Ben Webb: And if I don't check my work, it's gonna be probably pretty embarrassing in front of anybody that's there.
21:47
Ben Webb: So, like, how has it changed us?
21:49
Ben Webb: And I'll give you a couple of make maybe things you can go off of.
21:53
Ben Webb: Prompt literacy.
21:54
Ben Webb: I know you've been spending a lot of time in Claude right now.
21:56
Ben Webb: Yeah.
21:57
Ben Webb: Evaluation of output.
21:58
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
22:00
Ben Webb: Bias detection and originality.
22:03
Andy Goveia: That could be four things I would maybe throw out there.
22:06
Andy Goveia: I think I'm gonna go with credibility and bias.
22:09
Andy Goveia: I'm gonna throw them together a little bit.
22:12
Andy Goveia: That I think now more than ever, and I'm gonna use people on Facebook.
22:17
Andy Goveia: The amount of AI slop that I have in my Facebook feed sometimes because people share it believing it.
22:28
Andy Goveia: Like there's some people on my feed legitimately sharing it, thinking it's real.
22:32
Andy Goveia: Yep.
22:32
Andy Goveia: Frustrating because take two seconds.
22:36
Andy Goveia: No, ma'am, that pig is not really flying.
22:42
Andy Goveia: Um so I think that's one skill that becomes even more relevant even across all the disciplines, is just that credibility of what you're seeing, reading, processing, and what bias or or maybe bias isn't the word.
22:58
Andy Goveia: It's the ability to it's critical media literacy, is what it is and applying it to AI.
23:03
Andy Goveia: Um, so if AI has created some sort of scholarly work, I put in quotes, what sources did it pull from?
23:09
Andy Goveia: What is it saying?
23:10
Andy Goveia: Is it accurate?
23:11
Andy Goveia: Can you trust what it said?
23:12
Andy Goveia: Can you verify what's in there?
23:14
Andy Goveia: If it's something that is a visual image, is that image real?
23:16
Andy Goveia: Can you verify that occurred?
23:18
Andy Goveia: Where can you find it?
23:19
Andy Goveia: Or does it look like a computer heard pig fly and it looks like a deformed pig with wings?
23:25
Andy Goveia: On the flip side of that, if there is things being created, it's kind of getting into the whole when you talk about critical media literacy, right?
23:33
Andy Goveia: Does it evoke a reaction from you?
23:36
Andy Goveia: Is there an emotional charge it's trying to get out of you?
23:39
Andy Goveia: So like the purpose of it.
23:40
Andy Goveia: The purpose, right?
23:41
Andy Goveia: Like why is this being done in this way?
23:43
Andy Goveia: And so I think with AI being able to be so prolific in creation of things and outputs, students now more than ever, not that they didn't before, but it's teaching them how to, even though this great tool and these outputs exist, hey, the critical and the critical analysis you still did on other things, it still applies.
24:04
Andy Goveia: You can't, it's not an infallible product.
24:07
Andy Goveia: And so that credibility, bias awareness, all of those things we would ask kids to do with any piece of media or creation double applies because you have to almost not you're not just checking a source, you're checking something that may be pulled from two or three half sources.
24:22
Ben Webb: So I'm gonna answer, I'm gonna, I'm gonna follow up with what you said.
24:25
Ben Webb: One of the questions I was gonna ask is what have you, what have you created recently or what have you generated recently?
24:30
Ben Webb: Because did you make that or did you prompt it to then co-collaborate and make something?
24:35
Ben Webb: So here's what I'm gonna do instead.
24:38
Ben Webb: What are some things that we've made recently that are cool?
24:41
Ben Webb: Because we've worked on a couple of things recently.
24:43
Ben Webb: Oh yeah.
24:44
Ben Webb: Um, but using a couple of different AI tools.
24:47
Ben Webb: So what are some of the things that you've made recently that are cool, are great, are really something you couldn't have done otherwise unless you spent like two full-time jobs doing it, but haven't yet passed the evaluation tool because we're not the experts to then give the stamp of approval on it yet.
25:07
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
25:08
Andy Goveia: Okay.
25:08
Ben Webb: Because we've been writing bills.
25:10
Ben Webb: Oh, we've been we've been looking at school code.
25:12
Ben Webb: Yeah.
25:13
Ben Webb: We've made job descriptions.
25:14
Ben Webb: Yeah.
25:15
Andy Goveia: Yeah, we've been having fun.
25:17
Andy Goveia: I'm I think I'm gonna use our our amendment we've written.
25:20
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
25:21
Andy Goveia: So we're going to Springfield in May to do some advocacy for the lab schools with funding.
25:26
Andy Goveia: And my job was to look at evidence-based funding and come up with a proposal essentially to help us increase our funding.
25:36
Andy Goveia: Now, full disclosure, no clue if it's going to go anywhere.
25:41
Andy Goveia: We don't know if we're going to get any traction, but we're hopeful.
25:45
Andy Goveia: We're trying.
25:46
Andy Goveia: We're hopeful.
25:47
Andy Goveia: We're hopeful.
25:47
Andy Goveia: And so what I did is I researched EBF, I looked at funding distributions, I looked at our revenue, our expenses through the years, and I fed all of that into, I believe I started with Chat GPT, threw all of that in there and asked it to write me an amendment that would increase funding for the lab schools.
26:12
Andy Goveia: And it spat out a 25-page thing.
26:17
Andy Goveia: I then reprompted it a couple times to shrink it down.
26:22
Andy Goveia: I realized I misprompted it from the beginning and I got it down to about a 10-page amendment.
26:29
Andy Goveia: So then I took that and I threw it into Magic School for fun to go, hey, are you a legislative expert?
26:36
Andy Goveia: Let's go.
26:36
Andy Goveia: Magic School added some tweaks and adjustments that Chat GPT had missed.
26:40
Andy Goveia: I then took that output, took it into Claude, and went back and forth with Claude a pretty extensive amount of time.
26:47
Andy Goveia: Um it caught things neither of the other two had caught that I was also checking along the way, going back to the school code, reading legislation, going, Oh, yeah, okay, I get it.
26:56
Andy Goveia: Here's where it came from.
26:57
Andy Goveia: And so now we have a, I think, 12 to 14 page amendment that after a couple different AIs, and again, I took that Claude output and dropped it back into Chat GPT and Magic School and said, analyze, does this work?
27:09
Andy Goveia: Everything I triangulated the triangulation of AI here, and it all said it should work.
27:15
Andy Goveia: Now, in my disclosure, in the amendment, it says generated using these tools.
27:21
Ben Webb: Yes.
27:21
Andy Goveia: Um, transparency.
27:23
Andy Goveia: It says generated by these tools, and we are currently sitting with that draft, that proposal, waiting for someone, whoever the powers that be, legislators, legislators, lawyers, someone who understands one to go, we think this passes a SNP test, it should work.
27:39
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
27:39
Andy Goveia: Or hey, propose it.
27:40
Andy Goveia: They may make tweaks, but it does what you want it to do.
27:43
Andy Goveia: Um, because fun fact, neither of us are experts in the school code.
27:48
Andy Goveia: Surprisingly.
27:48
Andy Goveia: Or legislators, or legislative policy people.
27:52
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
27:53
Andy Goveia: Right?
27:53
Andy Goveia: We're not our thing.
27:55
Andy Goveia: We are just lowly teachers who are kind of politics nerds.
27:59
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
27:59
Andy Goveia: Um, but terms of you asked the question, what have we made?
28:03
Andy Goveia: That was a 25-minute dialogue with three AIs, and it spat out what I think is a passable amendment.
28:13
Ben Webb: Right.
28:14
Ben Webb: And I think so.
28:15
Ben Webb: The human element was not lost there.
28:17
Ben Webb: As much as we're talking about, like, okay, I threw it into this tool, I triangulated with these different sources, I took it and I threw it against uh open, I used uh ChatGPT and I use Copilot.
28:29
Ben Webb: I checked it through Perpex Perplexity and a couple of other um funding bills that I've created in the past to say, okay, would this also pass given the current environment of politics?
28:40
Ben Webb: So it's doing some additional research about what is what has and has not passed the General Assembly in Illinois.
28:45
Ben Webb: So like we did all of that, but it's still driven by humans.
28:50
Ben Webb: And the humans have to be the one who's either the lawyer who says that's gonna pass the test, the legislator who needs to be convinced this is worth the funding, because it's it comes down to okay, you're a human, you vote.
29:02
Ben Webb: And then also kind of like going over with all of the administrators.
29:06
Ben Webb: Uh, we brought the dean in into this as well.
29:08
Ben Webb: Like, so we can only create the pie in the sky.
29:12
Ben Webb: This is what we are hopeful for, and what we think will be good.
29:17
Ben Webb: It's the real humans and the real experts that then have to carry it over the finish line.
29:22
Ben Webb: You can only use the tool so far, and the tool can check its work, but you have to be the one to check the output.
29:30
Ben Webb: And so I think that's something where it's like, we've been working on that for a while.
29:35
Ben Webb: Did the AI able to process through a lot of data in seconds?
29:40
Ben Webb: Sure.
29:40
Ben Webb: Um, but some of those checks, it was a the it was a lot of conversation, it was a lot of back and forth.
29:45
Ben Webb: It was going through and saying to other people, associate deans, and saying, okay, yeah, that does pass the test, or that does make sense.
29:53
Ben Webb: Um, the bot was right.
29:55
Ben Webb: Um, and in getting that, it it takes somebody who's invested in politics, it takes somebody who's invested in, you know, going and advocating for their school system.
30:04
Ben Webb: It it goes back to us.
30:06
Ben Webb: Okay, we are the humans.
30:07
Ben Webb: This was our process, this is how the sausage gets made.
30:11
Ben Webb: But in the end, we think this is a good idea.
30:14
Ben Webb: Can we get this to happen?
30:15
Ben Webb: Yeah.
30:16
Ben Webb: So that I'm I'm glad it wasn't just, oh, I I photoshopped this thing using No, that that's the best, and I think that's the best example.
30:23
Andy Goveia: And we talk about easing the cognitive load, not replacing the cognitive load, right?
30:30
Andy Goveia: Definitely I gave up a lot because I could have sat there and I could have written a not as polished amendment, right?
30:41
Andy Goveia: That didn't speak to all the nuances of where we're mentioned in funding in the school code, which fun fact a lot of places, more than you would think.
30:48
Andy Goveia: Um, and there are a ton of sections that needed a slight amendment to help with our funding.
30:52
Andy Goveia: And so it the the beauty of this amendment, which is really a policy draft, is what it is, that contains amendment language, I should say.
31:01
Andy Goveia: It's not just the amendment, it's an explainer doc.
31:03
Andy Goveia: It's it's pretty thorough.
31:06
Andy Goveia: It created what eventually was needed without my time being devoted to becoming an expert in writing legislation.
31:18
Andy Goveia: And I think that's kind of the key to some of this is it alleviates the need to become an expert in certain things.
31:27
Andy Goveia: But as you said, I think really well, it does not eliminate the need for the person to be knowledgeable about what it is they are prompting or they are asking or doing.
31:36
Andy Goveia: I knew, for example, we are tier one for evidence-based funding still, which changes our calculation for new dollars added.
31:46
Andy Goveia: That was part of the language I wouldn't have thought needed to be touched in the amendment.
31:50
Andy Goveia: But looking at the doc, yes, that actually is something that needs to be explicitly stated and addressed.
31:56
Andy Goveia: And so I knew enough to get it the ballpark, and then the tools helped me hit the home run.
32:05
Andy Goveia: Now, again, it hasn't passed yet, so it's not a home run.
32:08
Andy Goveia: Um, enough to make it playable.
32:10
Ben Webb: Yeah.
32:11
Ben Webb: And I think kind of going off of a segue kind of or a little bit of a tangent there, I've seen a couple of lesson plans this year that are AI generated.
32:19
Ben Webb: So part of what I always kind of go back to with my my kids that are an oral com or a lesson plan that is AI generated, okay, cool.
32:27
Ben Webb: You've made this outline that is made by someone else.
32:30
Ben Webb: If you don't take ownership over it, you don't give it life.
32:33
Ben Webb: If you don't put any soul in it, it's not gonna go well.
32:36
Ben Webb: Yeah.
32:36
Ben Webb: So like the prompt can only go so far.
32:39
Ben Webb: Now we get to go in to Springfield in May and really try to sell it, give it life, give some soul.
32:45
Ben Webb: Tell the story.
32:46
Ben Webb: Yeah, and I think is I think that's the important piece is this is legislation that impacts real humans.
32:52
Ben Webb: Um, same way that when we're doing graphic design for like a poster for a show.
32:57
Ben Webb: Can the AI make something faster than me?
32:59
Ben Webb: Sure.
33:00
Ben Webb: But I I get such you know gain from doing that artwork, working with the kids on it, and and telling a story through that.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:09
Ben Webb: So it's it is also about the journey and the process, not just what is it output after 17 seconds of processing what I've told it.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:19
Ben Webb: You get to ask the last question.
33:20
Ben Webb: Here's one more I want to ask you though.
33:22
Ben Webb: Okay.
33:22
Ben Webb: What guardrails do we need in schools for AI?
33:27
Ben Webb: I I I appreciate that you brought up the concept that we have to test it, figure it out, and then implement it.
33:36
Ben Webb: So, like the FDA approved piece.
33:39
Ben Webb: Um, some places are doing like a five-year moratorium or suggesting a five-year moratorium on use of AI in schools because we haven't figured it out yet.
33:51
Ben Webb: So, like, are there certain guardrails or are there certain um components there?
33:56
Ben Webb: I always emphasize the academic integrity piece.
33:59
Ben Webb: Like, I want to, I want kids to know this device, this thing could cheat for you, but I want to show you why it's so significant for you to place some steps along the way where you're making sure you show me, no, this is all me.
34:11
Ben Webb: Yeah.
34:12
Ben Webb: So what do you think on that with like guardrails and screens new?
34:15
Ben Webb: I think the best and worst thing to ever happen with a Google Doc is version history.
34:19
Ben Webb: So I can always see what the kids did and where they might have made the mistake.
34:23
Andy Goveia: And when they copy and pasted two old paragraphs from somewhere else?
34:26
Ben Webb: Yep.
34:27
Ben Webb: Um sometimes it's just from Grammarly.
34:31
Andy Goveia: I well, and that that you know sometimes we do love grammarly.
34:34
Andy Goveia: Um that's a great tool.
34:35
Andy Goveia: Everyone should have grammarly.
34:37
Andy Goveia: Speaking of just give everyone grammarly, always every YouTube video I ever pull up.
34:42
Andy Goveia: Oh, just give everybody grammarly.
34:44
Andy Goveia: Um, I'm gonna this is a cop-out answer.
34:50
Andy Goveia: Okay.
34:51
Andy Goveia: Slightly, but I think it's it's meaningful.
34:54
Andy Goveia: I think guardrail-wise, you have to have cons a good one of the best guardrails is as much consistency as possible for students across teachers.
35:04
Andy Goveia: And I there are, and again, there are some classes, like in a makerspace classroom, going crazy with it and trying out all of the different things, a hundred percent.
35:13
Andy Goveia: Right?
35:14
Andy Goveia: Like if you're in an AI class and you're studying AI, running it through the ringer is what you should do, right?
35:24
Andy Goveia: In a content area class, like we've talked about today, no, you can't just use it unfettered.
35:31
Andy Goveia: But if that attitude of responsible use, ethical use, if that is consistent, if the so maybe what I'm trying to say is if schools are gonna implement it, having a slight as much as you can of a school-wide culture of you get to decide what it looks like in your classroom, but we don't compromise on this, this, and this.
35:52
Andy Goveia: We all agree we're gonna use it ethically and cite it as a source if it's used.
35:57
Andy Goveia: We agree it is going to help us, not replace us.
35:59
Andy Goveia: Like, and we haven't done this necessarily.
36:02
Andy Goveia: So I'm not speaking like, come see what we've done.
36:05
Andy Goveia: I just think where it works best is when kids see that there's a value system to how it's used.
36:12
Andy Goveia: I think it's where the human piece comes in.
36:14
Andy Goveia: So the best, here we go.
36:15
Andy Goveia: To answer the question, the best guardrail is a a set, I think a set of values that your building, your department, whatever, can all agree on.
36:25
Andy Goveia: Not out, not application, not use, but hey, our philosophy is going to be as consistent as possible in these two or three areas.
36:34
Ben Webb: And and that's where I would say at UhI, we did start the year saying this was our uh PLC from last year.
36:42
Ben Webb: This is the philosophy that we saw from this university, which we would like to say that is what we agree to.
36:48
Ben Webb: That's what we think.
36:49
Ben Webb: And we said it wasn't AI generated, it was from this university, this is our AI philosophy.
36:55
Ben Webb: And we brought it to the whole school and said, we think this is significant and this is what we should have going forward.
37:01
Ben Webb: And then it went back to the teacher to then say, okay, what am I gonna do to adhere to these kind of mission critical values?
37:09
Ben Webb: And in some cases, it's I'm not gonna use AI in the classroom at all, but I'm still gonna adhere to these values about how it can be used elsewhere, how it needs to be ethically um cited if it's being used, how we're acknowledging the implications of how it must be a part of the lives of our students going forward and for the teachers.
37:30
Ben Webb: And we've we kind of had that conversation to start the year.
37:33
Ben Webb: Yeah.
37:34
Ben Webb: Um I think we also kind of started there after we went to the beginning of year, like kind of meeting.
37:41
Ben Webb: We had like a town hall where the whole faculty was together, and we were kind of told that teachers who ignore AI are gonna be replaced by teachers who know how to use AI.
37:52
Ben Webb: And I think that's that's another hot take that is it's being discussed.
37:59
Ben Webb: I think I'm gonna push back on that because the teacher who doesn't use AI, if they have reasons, if they're justifying their reasons, no beef.
38:11
Ben Webb: Yeah.
38:12
Andy Goveia: I would modify that statement.
38:13
Ben Webb: Yeah.
38:14
Andy Goveia: To say the teachers who are gonna get hired will be acknowledging AI, and the teachers that don't acknowledge it, like if you're looking for a job, the edge in getting hired.
38:25
Andy Goveia: I don't because I and I think maybe to I maybe that's what our speaker meant.
38:28
Andy Goveia: Like if you're looking for a job you're looking to hire someone, I think you're gonna try to hire the person who has a deeper skill set, and that would include AI at this time.
38:36
Andy Goveia: It's like 15 years ago, do you have did you have a Google experience?
38:39
Andy Goveia: That was the big like, did you know how to use Google Docs?
38:42
Andy Goveia: And if you did, you were like, oh, right?
38:46
Andy Goveia: Advanced.
38:47
Andy Goveia: Five, six years ago, it was, are you familiar with one-to-one?
38:50
Andy Goveia: Right?
38:51
Andy Goveia: And now, or Canva or whatever the you know what I mean?
38:54
Andy Goveia: And now it's what's your AI background?
38:55
Andy Goveia: What do you know about it?
38:56
Andy Goveia: Like, so I th I'm gonna I'm gonna give the most a very generous interpretation there that thinking about new hires, you're gonna go with the deepest skill set.
39:04
Andy Goveia: And if AI is in that skill set, it's gonna make you a more attractive candidate.
39:07
Andy Goveia: Nice.
39:08
Andy Goveia: I think.
39:09
Ben Webb: Final word goes to you.
39:11
Ben Webb: Final word, final question.
39:12
Ben Webb: Up to you.
39:13
Andy Goveia: Here you go.
39:13
Andy Goveia: Ready?
39:14
Ben Webb: Ready.
39:15
Andy Goveia: What worries you about AI adoption right now in schools?
39:22
Ben Webb: The worry that I have with AI is as someone who tested iCloud collaborators, so I I had like 24 different users on a beta version of iCloud Docs before we had Google Docs, and I basically broke the server.
39:41
Andy Goveia: Um Congratulations.
39:43
Ben Webb: I am I was very proud of it.
39:44
Andy Goveia: Probably why Tim Cook is stepping down.
39:45
Ben Webb: I I know.
39:46
Ben Webb: I'm very curious to see where things go.
39:48
Ben Webb: Um so, like, as much as I want to be advanced in testing new things and trying them in the beta, I think we are treating too much of what's happening in AI right now, not as the beta, which is going to have bugs.
40:05
Ben Webb: We are assuming that it's always gonna work, it's always gonna be the best.
40:09
Ben Webb: And I think too many people assume it's good enough, it's right, it's gonna always be right, and they're losing that discernment for whether or not it's supposed to work.
40:20
Ben Webb: And I think too many people are ignoring the very bottom of the screen where it says this AI can make mistakes.
40:27
Ben Webb: I don't the same way that there's disclaimers at the bottom of advertisements, too many people are forgetting that little piece at the bottom.
40:34
Ben Webb: And I think we are as educators uniquely positioned to remind kids, to remind colleagues, to remind future teachers that it can make a lot of errors.
40:46
Ben Webb: And so you have to become better at discerning what are those mistakes, what are those, what are those problems, and then go from there.
40:55
Ben Webb: You have to be in the driver's seat if I can go back to that metaphor.
40:58
Ben Webb: Yeah.
40:59
Ben Webb: Is that a good enough answer?
41:01
Andy Goveia: That's I that's we're we're both so optimistic about it.
41:04
Andy Goveia: And we're users of it that it's I think it's interesting just to acknowledge, like, hey, you can be an enthusiastic user of it and still go, ooh.
41:12
Ben Webb: And and I think that's the big thing is depending on the day, I am either, yeah, Terminator's coming, or oh no, this is gonna be phenomenal.
41:19
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
41:20
Ben Webb: Cool.
41:21
Ben Webb: A few more episodes before we're out for the whole year.
41:23
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
41:24
Andy Goveia: I think a couple quick things, maybe just we're hitting, we're recording that.
41:27
Andy Goveia: I know people don't like to know cut timeline.
41:29
Andy Goveia: We're recording this at the end of April.
41:32
Andy Goveia: Um, and so it's probably coming out pretty quick, actually.
41:35
Andy Goveia: So this one might be really timely.
41:38
Andy Goveia: Um, I think it's really important to shout out what you're gonna maybe hear from us here going into the end of this year.
41:45
Andy Goveia: So you're gonna get um an episode or two with some chats with some of our colleagues talking about their year, how it's gone for them.
41:54
Andy Goveia: Um, if you stick with us this season, you're gonna get an episode with some of our new staff around the buildings this year, hearing about what their take was on coming into our system.
42:03
Andy Goveia: Um, if we can get it finally figured out and coordinated, you're gonna hear from some of our graduating students about their time here and what it's like to transition onto what comes next.
42:12
Andy Goveia: So you'll hopefully hear from some eighth graders coming to high school and then some high schoolers on their way out into the world.
42:17
Ben Webb: Yep, into college.
42:18
Andy Goveia: Um, and then we're hopeful to do one closing episode with you all as well.
42:22
Andy Goveia: Um, but here's what we need from you all.
42:24
Andy Goveia: If there's things you want to hear, and I put this on Facebook and Instagram and no one responded.
42:30
Andy Goveia: Our 120 followers, come on.
42:32
Andy Goveia: Um, we need to know what you want to hear.
42:35
Andy Goveia: Um, doing this has been just a joy for us to do.
42:38
Andy Goveia: So much so we wish we had like a day a week to just do this.
42:42
Andy Goveia: Um, it's been a very life-giving thing, I think, for the two of us to get to do these chats, especially with people.
42:49
Andy Goveia: Yeah, these conversations with ourselves are also phenomenal, but it's just there's, I mean, the energy of a conversation, and I think you've heard it on some of our episodes this year.
42:58
Andy Goveia: Um, just the energy you get from hearing from what the the great work that people are doing in our system and across the university.
43:06
Andy Goveia: And so if you have something or someone you think we need to talk to, you want us to feature, we have a clean slate next year.
43:15
Andy Goveia: We have 36 weeks of a school year.
43:18
Andy Goveia: We'd love to put out 20 or so episodes next year.
43:22
Andy Goveia: We need to know what people want to hear and want to listen to.
43:25
Andy Goveia: And so reach out, message us on the Facebook, the Instagram, shoot us an email.
43:33
Andy Goveia: An email, shoot us some emails.
43:36
Andy Goveia: Um, we want to hear what you want to hear so we can get the people in this closet we record in around the microphone to share the great things going on across our two schools.
43:50
Ben Webb: I love it.
43:51
Ben Webb: All right, folks, have a good week.
43:52
Ben Webb: We're almost there, almost summer.
43:54
Andy Goveia: Woo! Live in the Lab Schools is a production of the ISU Laboratory Schools, recorded on the campus of Illinois State University.
44:08
Andy Goveia: Connect with us on Facebook or Instagram at Live in the Lab Schools.
44:12
Andy Goveia: We'll see you next time.