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Bengals Booth Podcast: Thinking Out Loud · Bengals Booth Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: I get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
0:06
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth podcast. The I'm Thinking out Loud addition,
0:14
Speaker 1: as Anthony Tresh from Pro Football Focus shares his thoughts
0:17
Speaker 1: and what the Bengal should do in free agency and
0:20
Speaker 1: the draft, and I'll give you a little teaser his
0:23
Speaker 1: plan does not include piney Sewell then after that, It's
0:28
Speaker 1: something I've done before when hosting radio shows on WLW
0:32
Speaker 1: called story Time with Dan, as I share an anecdote
0:35
Speaker 1: for my broadcasting career, in this case a story involving
0:39
Speaker 1: a Pro Football Hall of Famer who nearly caused me
0:43
Speaker 1: to freeze to death. The Bengals Booth Podcast is presented
0:47
Speaker 1: by bud Light. Seltzer Refreshed the Game. Here's a quick
0:51
Speaker 1: reminder that you can have the latest edition of this
0:54
Speaker 1: podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by
0:58
Speaker 1: subscribing on Itune, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or pod Bean.
1:03
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Speaker 1: wall calendar through shutterfly dot com. Now let's get to football.
1:46
Speaker 1: These days, it seems that everybody with access to the
1:49
Speaker 1: Internet puts out a mock draft, and chances are you
1:53
Speaker 1: already have a player that you would like to see
1:55
Speaker 1: the Bengal select number five overall. But forty three days
2:00
Speaker 1: before the draft, the official start of free agency begins.
2:04
Speaker 1: That's a little more than a month away March seventeenth,
2:08
Speaker 1: and this week I reached out to Anthony Tresh from
2:10
Speaker 1: Pro Football Focus dot com, who has strong opinions on
2:14
Speaker 1: who the Bengal should sign, draft and not draft. Anthony,
2:20
Speaker 1: you have written some interesting things about the Bengals in
2:22
Speaker 1: recent weeks, and we are going to cover some of
2:24
Speaker 1: those today, beginning with the comprehensive free agency preview that
2:29
Speaker 1: you published at the beginning of this week for all
2:32
Speaker 1: thirty two NFL teams, including top target in free agency,
2:35
Speaker 1: potential cuts, team needs, and your plan of action. I'm
2:40
Speaker 1: going to begin by quoting you. You wrote, as great
2:44
Speaker 1: of a prospect as Piney Sewell is, he should not
2:47
Speaker 1: be in the Bengals plans this offseason. So Bengals fans,
2:53
Speaker 1: I'm sure would like you to explain why. Yeah, I mean,
2:56
Speaker 1: this is going to be a popular debate between now
2:58
Speaker 1: and April. I mean we've already had it with a
3:00
Speaker 1: lot of Bengals fans. But you know myself and a
3:02
Speaker 1: lot of my colleagues here at PFF view that you
3:05
Speaker 1: know the Cincinnati Bengals they have the cap space to
3:07
Speaker 1: attack free agency in offensive line. I mean, there's some
3:09
Speaker 1: quality offensive linemen out there that not a lot of
3:11
Speaker 1: teams can afford because the cap, the salary cap is
3:14
Speaker 1: probably gonna go down around ten to twenty million when
3:16
Speaker 1: it's usually going up ten million. So there's a lot
3:18
Speaker 1: of teams in a bad situation with the Bengals are
3:21
Speaker 1: not one of them. They can afford these offensive linemen
3:23
Speaker 1: and they're going to get quality play right away. And
3:25
Speaker 1: then when you look at the NFL Draft and where
3:27
Speaker 1: they're positioned. Penny School I mean, he's as sure as
3:30
Speaker 1: a bet as they possibly are. But you look at
3:32
Speaker 1: guys like Jamar Chase, who you know, we believe might
3:35
Speaker 1: be the best non quarterback prospect you've ever seen in
3:38
Speaker 1: that Chase Young type of category. From a wide receiver perspective,
3:42
Speaker 1: he's up there with Amari Cooper, Julio Jones. I mean,
3:45
Speaker 1: this guy has a chance to be an elite wide
3:46
Speaker 1: receiver number one. And when you look at the Bengals
3:49
Speaker 1: receiving unit, you know, Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd they're great,
3:52
Speaker 1: but they're more complimentary pieces. They're neither of them are
3:55
Speaker 1: really going to be that elite wide receiver one. You know,
3:58
Speaker 1: Jamar Chase has potential to do that. DeVonta Smith has
4:00
Speaker 1: its potential to do that. Gamen Wattle does too. You know,
4:03
Speaker 1: in all three of those guys are gonna one of them,
4:05
Speaker 1: I mean, some form of those three will be the
4:08
Speaker 1: available to Cincinnati at the fifth overall pick. And you
4:11
Speaker 1: know they really should take one of those wide receivers
4:13
Speaker 1: over Pinna soool. I mean, when you look at the
4:15
Speaker 1: positional value, wide receivers just far more important than offensive
4:19
Speaker 1: tackle in you know, like I said, Cincinnati really does
4:22
Speaker 1: have the funds to make some moves. Whether it's a
4:24
Speaker 1: guy like Taylor Moton the right tackle to Carolina, or
4:27
Speaker 1: Joe Fiuniy a guard from New England. They can make
4:29
Speaker 1: some power plays in free agency, and we think we
4:31
Speaker 1: should They should do that at offensive line and then
4:33
Speaker 1: go wide receiver in the NFL Draft. We're talking to
4:36
Speaker 1: Anthony Trash from Pro Football Focus. Should they prioritize tackle
4:42
Speaker 1: or guard if they do dive into free agency. I think,
4:46
Speaker 1: you know, the best option out there for them that
4:47
Speaker 1: they can really afford would be Joe Funi. And you know,
4:50
Speaker 1: it's going to be interesting to see what kind of
4:52
Speaker 1: direction the New England Patriots kind of go in this offseason,
4:54
Speaker 1: just because you know they're kind of flirting with going
4:57
Speaker 1: into that quarterback purgatory realm that they do go that
5:00
Speaker 1: to run round. I think they should kind of liquidate
5:02
Speaker 1: their assets and kind of let everything go there. So
5:04
Speaker 1: you know, I think they have the chance to kind
5:06
Speaker 1: of outbid New England and you know, get him in
5:08
Speaker 1: an uncomfortable spot and land Joe Tuni. But also, like
5:11
Speaker 1: I said, Taylor Moton, he's another good option at tackle,
5:15
Speaker 1: So I don't don't think there's really a priority there.
5:18
Speaker 1: But I think out of all of the offensive line
5:20
Speaker 1: that that's available, I think Funy if he does hit
5:23
Speaker 1: the open market, I think that should probably be the
5:25
Speaker 1: top priority because he is part away the best player
5:28
Speaker 1: at his respective position that'll probably be available for him.
5:32
Speaker 1: So in a previous podcast, I had mentioned Brandon Schurf
5:37
Speaker 1: is a possibility at guard. In your article about free agency,
5:41
Speaker 1: you brought up Darryl Williams as a possibility at tackle.
5:45
Speaker 1: What about those guys? I would have loved to put
5:47
Speaker 1: Brandon Schurf in there, but I think he's more likely
5:50
Speaker 1: than not going to get paid by the Washington football team.
5:53
Speaker 1: I mean, they have a lot of cap space available
5:54
Speaker 1: to him, so I do think that's what's going to
5:56
Speaker 1: end up happening. The same with like Trip Williams. Even
5:58
Speaker 1: though they have Joe and Williams a tackle, He's probably
6:01
Speaker 1: gonna get paid by San Francisco. So I mean we're
6:03
Speaker 1: just kind of, you know, kind of weeding out some
6:05
Speaker 1: of these guys there. Darryl Williams, I think he's kind
6:08
Speaker 1: of a less than ideal option at tackle just because
6:11
Speaker 1: of what we you know, he was great this past season,
6:13
Speaker 1: but in the years past not so much. So you know,
6:16
Speaker 1: I think, you know, if they can really get Taylor
6:19
Speaker 1: Moton and Joe Theory, I mean, those are the top two,
6:21
Speaker 1: you know, that's the top guard and tackle likely to
6:23
Speaker 1: hit the open market, with Schurf and Trent Williams not there,
6:26
Speaker 1: so I think those would be their best case scenarios.
6:29
Speaker 1: After that, you know, it would be Darryl Williams at tackle.
6:33
Speaker 1: And then when we're talking offensive guards, man, it gets
6:35
Speaker 1: really really weak. You know, you had Matt Fyler there,
6:38
Speaker 1: who has you know, experienced playing tackle and guard. But
6:41
Speaker 1: even after that, I mean, we're looking at possible guys
6:43
Speaker 1: like Jermaine Effettie, and we all know how inconsistent he
6:46
Speaker 1: has been throughout his NFL career. So I mean, they
6:48
Speaker 1: really should be hoping that a guy like Joe Dooney
6:51
Speaker 1: hits the open market and then just throw the bag
6:53
Speaker 1: at him because he's that's about the only quality option
6:55
Speaker 1: they really have. We're talking to Anthony Trash from Pro
6:58
Speaker 1: Football Focus. You can all them on Twitter at p
7:01
Speaker 1: f F Underscore. Anthony. You also cover internal free agents
7:07
Speaker 1: and your free agency guy. The Bengals have several the
7:09
Speaker 1: top two guys on the list are undoubtedly will Jackson
7:13
Speaker 1: and Carl Lawson. Who should the priority be? And it
7:16
Speaker 1: has to be William Jackson just because of the positional value.
7:19
Speaker 1: And you know, I love Lawson. I think he's a
7:22
Speaker 1: very good passenger. I mean he had you know, he's
7:24
Speaker 1: almost a top ten pastor which are actually this past
7:26
Speaker 1: year when when you look at our wins upove replacement metric,
7:29
Speaker 1: which is a very popular win in baseball, and our
7:32
Speaker 1: data scientists, you know, they put their heads down, they
7:34
Speaker 1: grinded out this formula and they came up with it.
7:36
Speaker 1: And props to him because it's one of the best
7:37
Speaker 1: things I've ever seen someone do that I worked with,
7:40
Speaker 1: you know, a kind of measures positional value. We've really
7:43
Speaker 1: found out some very interesting things with this. And you know,
7:45
Speaker 1: in the case of William Jackson versus Carl Lawson this
7:47
Speaker 1: past season, both players had great years, but William Jackson
7:51
Speaker 1: generated two and a half times more wins upove replacement.
7:54
Speaker 1: Think Carl Lawson, did you know it's just all about
7:56
Speaker 1: coverage being more important than pass Russian I think you
7:59
Speaker 1: know that what they really need to prioritize here, so
8:02
Speaker 1: you know, when they're looking who to resign, you know,
8:04
Speaker 1: I think they need to go after William Jackson and
8:06
Speaker 1: prioritize that over Carl Lawson, and then after I think
8:09
Speaker 1: even before they look at Carl Lawson, they really need
8:12
Speaker 1: to address the slot corners be just because, you know,
8:15
Speaker 1: but it's interesting, just because you know, there's a lot
8:17
Speaker 1: of available slot corners on the open market, but they're
8:20
Speaker 1: only going to get contracts, you know, annually worth about
8:22
Speaker 1: four to five you know million per year, even though
8:25
Speaker 1: they're one of the most valuable positions on the field.
8:27
Speaker 1: There's a lot of talented ones on the open market
8:29
Speaker 1: and they can get a pretty good one too for
8:31
Speaker 1: a very decent price. So, you know, I think those
8:33
Speaker 1: are the kind of the two avenues they need to
8:35
Speaker 1: go down before they even think about Carl Lawson as
8:37
Speaker 1: much of a you know, a great player he is.
8:39
Speaker 1: Give us some slot corner names. First one that comes
8:43
Speaker 1: to mind, Desmond King, you know, Troy Hill of the
8:45
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Rams. I mean, these guys are out there too,
8:48
Speaker 1: you know, McKinsey, Alexander, you know, he's not a bad option.
8:51
Speaker 1: You know, the LB. I think it's somewhere around of
8:54
Speaker 1: the top eleven highest grade slot corners and coverage over
8:58
Speaker 1: the last two seasons. Seven of those eleven are on
9:00
Speaker 1: the open market this season. You know, Troy Hill, Like
9:02
Speaker 1: I said, Desmond King, you know, they have Kawan Williams
9:06
Speaker 1: as San Francisco corner too. I mean, there's gonna be
9:08
Speaker 1: a lot of them available, and a lot of these
9:10
Speaker 1: teams can't afford them. You know, the Pittsburgh Steelers too,
9:12
Speaker 1: with Mike Hilton Kim Sutton. There's going to be a
9:15
Speaker 1: very good market for these guys, and I think they're
9:17
Speaker 1: gonna be able to land a good one, just whether
9:19
Speaker 1: or not they kind of capitalize on the opportunity. We're
9:22
Speaker 1: talking to Anthony Trash from Pro Football Focus. You listed
9:25
Speaker 1: as their top two priorities in your guide offensive line
9:29
Speaker 1: and cornerback, and based on your Will Jackson versus Kyral
9:32
Speaker 1: Lawson decision, I guess I can understand why you didn't
9:36
Speaker 1: have defensive line listed as well. To me though, that
9:39
Speaker 1: deserves to be right up there. Can they help themselves
9:42
Speaker 1: in free agency, Yeah, I mean they certainly can, but
9:46
Speaker 1: I don't think it's you know, a pressing need like
9:48
Speaker 1: offensive lining corner is for them, just like I said,
9:52
Speaker 1: because of the positional value thing with it too, and
9:54
Speaker 1: I would even put corner in, even wide receiver up
9:57
Speaker 1: there ahead of offensive line. You know, even though, of
10:00
Speaker 1: course the Bengals offensive line was one of the worst
10:02
Speaker 1: in the NFL last season. You know, they do have
10:04
Speaker 1: two good pieces there with Jonah Williams and Trey Hopkins.
10:06
Speaker 1: You know, if they make those couple of moves in
10:08
Speaker 1: free agency like they can, you know, I think they
10:10
Speaker 1: can have a pretty good lineup set up, you know,
10:13
Speaker 1: for the twenty twenty one season without pain a school.
10:16
Speaker 1: But you know, the past rush maybe needs a little
10:18
Speaker 1: bit of help, especially if they can't bring back Coral Lawson,
10:21
Speaker 1: which I think they're going to end up doing anyway.
10:24
Speaker 1: You know, I still think, you know, you got to
10:25
Speaker 1: attack the most important valuable positions and then kind of
10:28
Speaker 1: fill in after the fact in the attack the less
10:31
Speaker 1: valuable positions, you know, and get to that kind of
10:34
Speaker 1: contingent status. But I don't think they're quite there yet.
10:37
Speaker 1: All right, let's turn to the draft with Anthony Trash
10:40
Speaker 1: from Pro Football Focus. Jamar Chase is the ideal guy
10:44
Speaker 1: in your opinion. Let's say he's gone. If he's not
10:48
Speaker 1: there at number five, what would you do? Yeah, I mean,
10:51
Speaker 1: still go wide receiver, you know, and this is a
10:53
Speaker 1: very interesting debate that myself and our two other draft guys,
10:57
Speaker 1: Austin gil and Mike Grinner, I've had with them countless
10:59
Speaker 1: time that they're big jail and Waddle over DeVonta Smith
11:02
Speaker 1: guys barely. But I think I would prefer Davonta Smith
11:05
Speaker 1: over jail and Waddle. And I think we're kind of
11:07
Speaker 1: splitting hairs when comparing me too. It just kind of
11:09
Speaker 1: picked your poison which kind of guy you want there?
11:12
Speaker 1: You know, with DeVonta Smith, you know I would still
11:14
Speaker 1: take him over Pini. Sooled the only concern is his size.
11:18
Speaker 1: His speed I think is going to be fine, and
11:19
Speaker 1: I think some people are a little bit too concerned
11:21
Speaker 1: about it. But you know, when looking at his comparisons
11:24
Speaker 1: from an athleticism standpoint, in a frame standpoint, we've never
11:28
Speaker 1: really seen a player like DeVonta Smith, you know, translates
11:31
Speaker 1: to the NFL and have you know, great success. So
11:33
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of the pushback on him. But
11:36
Speaker 1: you know, you look on him out in the field
11:37
Speaker 1: and you look at the tape. I mean, he does
11:39
Speaker 1: everything in the position at an extremely high level, from
11:41
Speaker 1: his route running, his release packages, ball skills especially. You know,
11:45
Speaker 1: he is going to be, in my opinion, a very
11:48
Speaker 1: good wide receiver at the NFL. And with Jaalen Waddle too.
11:50
Speaker 1: I mean, the guy has deep speed for days, and
11:52
Speaker 1: he's going to immediately be a premier deep threat and
11:55
Speaker 1: you know, Joe Brow could certainly use that. I mean
11:57
Speaker 1: this past year, the deep ball was not good at all.
12:00
Speaker 1: I mean it was one of the worst in the NFL.
12:02
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you didn't really have a
12:04
Speaker 1: lot of time to throw that off as a line
12:05
Speaker 1: didn't help him. I think, you know, didn't really have
12:07
Speaker 1: a lot of separators downfield. I think bringing in a guy,
12:10
Speaker 1: you know, whether that's Jail and Wilds, Mon Smith, Jamar Chase,
12:12
Speaker 1: I think any of those three could really help him
12:14
Speaker 1: take that next step forward and really kind of put
12:17
Speaker 1: him into that top ten, you know, type of quarterback
12:21
Speaker 1: that he looks like he's going to become. If they
12:23
Speaker 1: are unable to sign Taylor Molten or Daryl Williams, the
12:28
Speaker 1: top two tackles you have listed at that point, would
12:32
Speaker 1: you take pinnay Sewel. Don't not take a pin Suel
12:35
Speaker 1: just because I mean, yeah, this is a I mean
12:38
Speaker 1: the Bengals are in a really good position. You know,
12:40
Speaker 1: the fact that this tackle class is so loaded is
12:44
Speaker 1: a big reason for that. I mean, I would have
12:46
Speaker 1: to say, I mean this draft is kind of interesting
12:48
Speaker 1: just because I think quarterbacks are very stack position. Wide
12:50
Speaker 1: receivers a stack position, and so is tackle. But then
12:53
Speaker 1: once out you look at any other position, it gets
12:55
Speaker 1: very very bad. But you know, these are the positions
12:58
Speaker 1: they kind of need to address, and you know, where
13:00
Speaker 1: or picking in round two, there's going to be quality
13:02
Speaker 1: tackles there available to them. You know, whether it's you know,
13:04
Speaker 1: Leam Eichenberg of Notre Dame, Alex Leatherwood, He's he's going
13:08
Speaker 1: to be slipping down there. Sam Cosmi of Texas is available.
13:11
Speaker 1: I mean, all of these guys are great options to have,
13:13
Speaker 1: and I think they can address that in round two.
13:15
Speaker 1: But the ideal scenario is, you know, kind of landing
13:18
Speaker 1: an established one in free agency that can come in
13:20
Speaker 1: right away. But even then, if they do land a
13:23
Speaker 1: guy like Moton, take Jamarche safe. Fifth. Overall, I still
13:27
Speaker 1: think taking a tackle in the second round is something
13:29
Speaker 1: they should do, just because you know, the offensive line
13:32
Speaker 1: was extremely bad. I think you just kind of keep
13:34
Speaker 1: swinging there and I think you can find pretty good
13:35
Speaker 1: value there. But in round one, I still think you
13:38
Speaker 1: should take, you know, these elite level wide receiver prospects
13:41
Speaker 1: as a chance to really, you know, be a true
13:43
Speaker 1: elite wide receiver number one at the next level. Over
13:45
Speaker 1: Penny School. We're talking to Anthony Trash from Pro Football Focus.
13:49
Speaker 1: I highly recommend his guide to free agency that he
13:51
Speaker 1: published on Monday on the website. Another part of your
13:55
Speaker 1: team by team analysis is potential cuts and for the
13:59
Speaker 1: bank goals. The first two guys you have listed are
14:02
Speaker 1: Geno Atkins and Bobby Hart. Are they no brainers in
14:05
Speaker 1: your opinion? For guys to cut to create space? This
14:09
Speaker 1: is always a tough one to gauge. I think Bobby
14:11
Speaker 1: Hart certainly is. I mean, he has not been the
14:14
Speaker 1: performer that you know many have been hoping for. UM.
14:17
Speaker 1: I would say he's probably the shirt shirts fire one.
14:20
Speaker 1: Do you know Atkins? You know, I think you know,
14:22
Speaker 1: he could still contribute at a high level, but he
14:23
Speaker 1: does have a pretty fast salary UM, So you know,
14:26
Speaker 1: never say never with some of these guys on what
14:27
Speaker 1: they could do. I think Giovanni Bernard and CJ who's
14:30
Speaker 1: on I listed in there as well. Could be ones
14:32
Speaker 1: that could get looked at. Um. But you know, the
14:34
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Bengals are sent pretty well in cap space with
14:37
Speaker 1: around you know, thirty seven projected. He's thirty seven million projected,
14:41
Speaker 1: if that salary cap is around one hundred and eighty
14:43
Speaker 1: million has reported. Um. You know, in the promost teams,
14:45
Speaker 1: they would they have killed of being a position with that.
14:47
Speaker 1: So you know that they could be you know, willing
14:50
Speaker 1: to bring some of these guys back and don't feel
14:51
Speaker 1: like they have to cut him. But you know, those
14:53
Speaker 1: four names are the ones that come to mind, Anthony.
14:55
Speaker 1: In addition to the Free agency Guide, you also recently
14:58
Speaker 1: ranked all thirty two draft classes from last year and
15:02
Speaker 1: ranked the Bengals twenty twenty class number one. What stood
15:06
Speaker 1: out about last year's rookie class for the Bengals, Yeah,
15:09
Speaker 1: I mean it's all about Joe Burrow and See Higgins.
15:11
Speaker 1: I mean that those are those two are the sole
15:12
Speaker 1: reasons why they came in with that top sply I
15:15
Speaker 1: had really had no one, nothing to do with any
15:18
Speaker 1: any of the other guys they drafted after that, just
15:20
Speaker 1: because Joe Burrow before he got hurt, I mean, he
15:23
Speaker 1: was looking like he would have been our Rookie of
15:24
Speaker 1: the Year. He was already one of the more valuable
15:26
Speaker 1: quarterbacks in the NFL. And like I said, he didn't
15:28
Speaker 1: really have the deep all there, but you look at
15:30
Speaker 1: the stable factors, you know, from the clean pocket, what
15:33
Speaker 1: was his you know, the negatively great throw rate on
15:35
Speaker 1: those non deep passes, and he was up there was
15:37
Speaker 1: some of the best in the NFL, you know, number
15:40
Speaker 1: number one, number two, number three, and some of those categories,
15:42
Speaker 1: the most important categories at the quarterback position, so you know,
15:45
Speaker 1: you really don't typically see that from a rookie, and
15:47
Speaker 1: that really generated his value. In two, I mean you
15:51
Speaker 1: kind of you kind of got a free pass with
15:53
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow there at number one, just because he's as
15:55
Speaker 1: you know, as you never have a slam dunk with
15:57
Speaker 1: the first overall pick, especially at quarterback. Joe Burrow was
16:00
Speaker 1: looking like, you know, one of the surest picks at
16:03
Speaker 1: the first overall that we've ever really seen. So we
16:06
Speaker 1: knew that he was going to you know, kind of
16:07
Speaker 1: conte contribute and produce his value above expectation like he did.
16:11
Speaker 1: And in two with te Higgins, I mean, this was
16:13
Speaker 1: a home run pick for them. I personally was not
16:15
Speaker 1: expecting him to pick te Higgins thirty third overall. You know,
16:18
Speaker 1: I expect him to go down some other avenues, but
16:20
Speaker 1: I absolutely love the pick. It was probably, you know,
16:21
Speaker 1: one of my five favorite picks of the draft at
16:23
Speaker 1: the time, just because you know, of the me that
16:25
Speaker 1: wide receiver, and you know, I think he is going to,
16:27
Speaker 1: like I said, developed into a quality, complimentary piece. I mean,
16:30
Speaker 1: I really do like his ball skills. I thought he
16:32
Speaker 1: improved too. You know, he was great at the catchpoint
16:35
Speaker 1: at Clemson. He got better as the year progress and
16:37
Speaker 1: ended up one of you know, one of the higher
16:38
Speaker 1: graded rookie receivers in the NFL. Was actually the second
16:41
Speaker 1: most valuable you know, second round pick of the twenty
16:44
Speaker 1: twenty NFL Draft. So those two picks combined really produced
16:47
Speaker 1: above expectation and really really put themselves into that number
16:51
Speaker 1: one overall spot. And you know, kind of looking at that,
16:53
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of hard to wrape your head
16:55
Speaker 1: around just because they hit these two picks. But you know,
16:57
Speaker 1: this past year, we really didn't see too many rookie
17:01
Speaker 1: performers had great seasons. I mean, you know, Justin Herbert
17:04
Speaker 1: and you know, Justin Jefferson, Chase Young. They all had
17:06
Speaker 1: great years, but when you're looking at the entire draft
17:09
Speaker 1: class compared to other years, we didn't really see a
17:11
Speaker 1: high rate of rookies kind of have success in your one,
17:13
Speaker 1: and you know COVID obviously I had an impact with that.
17:16
Speaker 1: So you know, having those two guys for Cincinnati, the
17:18
Speaker 1: Higgins and Joe Burrow, really exceed expectations right away, even
17:22
Speaker 1: though they did have locky expectations to start with, really
17:24
Speaker 1: put them in that top spot. Who is the second
17:26
Speaker 1: round pick that you had ranked higher than Tea Oh,
17:30
Speaker 1: I think it might have been Antoine Winfield. I think
17:32
Speaker 1: it was him, if I recall correctly. I mean he
17:35
Speaker 1: was another one that we thought, you know, I mentioned
17:37
Speaker 1: earlier my five favorite picks in the NFL Draft. I
17:40
Speaker 1: think he was probably up there too. I remember writing
17:42
Speaker 1: an article about that, just because you know, we fought
17:45
Speaker 1: him as a first round pick and he slipped to
17:47
Speaker 1: the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They're up being a valuable piece
17:50
Speaker 1: to him. So I'm pretty sure on the data in
17:53
Speaker 1: front of me, but I'm pretty sure it was the
17:54
Speaker 1: Antoine Winfield. If Burrow and Higgins were the biggest reasons
17:58
Speaker 1: why the beggar Bengals had the number one half class
18:00
Speaker 1: in your opinion, Did any of the other guys stand out? No,
18:04
Speaker 1: not really unfortunately, But I mean there's still time just
18:07
Speaker 1: because you look at the rookie year and it's very
18:11
Speaker 1: it's not very predictive of future success. I mean we
18:14
Speaker 1: typically see for most positions, the second year kind of
18:17
Speaker 1: you get a better understanding of what kind of career
18:20
Speaker 1: of a young player is going to have in the
18:23
Speaker 1: long run. So it's way too early actually to call
18:26
Speaker 1: these guys. Any of these guys, you know, a bus
18:27
Speaker 1: are not a good pick just because it's that pivotal
18:30
Speaker 1: year two, and you know, I think after a year
18:32
Speaker 1: two is a good time to come back and reflect,
18:34
Speaker 1: you know, on them. I want to get back to
18:37
Speaker 1: Burrow for a second, because by the traditional stats that
18:40
Speaker 1: we've looked at for years and years and years, passer rating,
18:44
Speaker 1: yards per attempt, things like that, Joe came in twenty
18:46
Speaker 1: fourth and passer rating twenty fifth and yards per attempt.
18:49
Speaker 1: Pro Football Focus had him graded much higher than that.
18:52
Speaker 1: And you referred to some of the stable metrics, some
18:56
Speaker 1: of the things that really project year to year to year.
19:00
Speaker 1: Can you explain that a little bit better. When looking
19:02
Speaker 1: at those stable factors, you really want to isolate quarterback
19:05
Speaker 1: performance to clean pocket play, just because when you look
19:08
Speaker 1: at you know, performance from a clean pocket versus in
19:11
Speaker 1: a pressure pocket, you know, clean performance is way more
19:14
Speaker 1: stable your year. In pressure performance that's way more volatible.
19:17
Speaker 1: And that's an interesting thing with Justin Herbert, you know,
19:20
Speaker 1: the other quarterback that had great success, the offensive rookie
19:23
Speaker 1: of the year, just because he had a lot of
19:25
Speaker 1: success when pressure that's not sustainable year to year. He
19:28
Speaker 1: really was not that good from a clean pocket. So
19:30
Speaker 1: I think we're going to see regressing from him. But
19:32
Speaker 1: I'm guy going off into changent there. But with Joe Burrow,
19:35
Speaker 1: he had the one of the lowest rates of quarterback
19:38
Speaker 1: fault in completions from a clean pocket. I mean the
19:41
Speaker 1: pinpoint accuracy that we saw at else Hu, we saw
19:43
Speaker 1: routine lye with the Banls in his first ten games,
19:46
Speaker 1: and I mean the fact that he still finished sixteenth
19:49
Speaker 1: in war among quarterbacks despite missing you know, the second
19:52
Speaker 1: half of the season is quite remarkable. So I mean,
19:55
Speaker 1: I think Joe Burrow is you know, as good as
19:58
Speaker 1: a rookie campaign that Justin Herbert and Justin Jefferson had
20:02
Speaker 1: I still think Joe Burrow is going to be the
20:04
Speaker 1: best rookie or the best player from the twenty twenty
20:06
Speaker 1: one or twenty twenty NFL draft class. You'll by far.
20:09
Speaker 1: I think he's going to be a star quarterback in
20:12
Speaker 1: the NFL that is possibly gonna hopefully lead Cincinnati to
20:15
Speaker 1: the super Bowl. We'll see someday in the years to combat.
20:18
Speaker 1: I think he's the real deal and he's going to
20:19
Speaker 1: be a very special guy here for Cincinnati. I like
20:22
Speaker 1: the way you think. We're talking to Anthony Trash from
20:25
Speaker 1: Pro Football Focus. You also do a lot of college analysis.
20:29
Speaker 1: You recently published your top ten returning quarterbacks in college football.
20:34
Speaker 1: In addition, dude doing Bengals games, I broadcast University of
20:37
Speaker 1: Cincinnati games. You did not have my guy, Desmond Ritter
20:41
Speaker 1: in your top ten. Explain why? Yeah, I mean this
20:45
Speaker 1: was the tough list to make up. You know, with
20:48
Speaker 1: Desmond Ritter, he obviously adds value with this mobility. The
20:51
Speaker 1: tools are off the charts, and that's what kind of
20:53
Speaker 1: you know, we were looking at the twenty twenty one
20:55
Speaker 1: NFL draft before he decided to come back. You know,
20:57
Speaker 1: he was kind of getting that mid round considerate just
21:00
Speaker 1: because he's a very potential base guy. Either the tools
21:03
Speaker 1: are there, it becomes about something special. But we just
21:06
Speaker 1: have not seen that from Desmond Ritter. I mean this
21:08
Speaker 1: past year he had a sub seventy passing grade, which
21:10
Speaker 1: was he did that too back in twenty nineteen, and
21:13
Speaker 1: we were looking at those, like I mentioned earlier, the
21:15
Speaker 1: stable factors, the clean pocket passing grade, and he was
21:18
Speaker 1: just at the twenty fourth percentile in college football this
21:20
Speaker 1: past season. The downfield, you know, accuracy was very shoddy.
21:24
Speaker 1: He had a high rate of uncatchable throws. Great, he
21:26
Speaker 1: really didn't put the ball on harm's way with his
21:28
Speaker 1: downfield passing when he did pull the trigger down there.
21:31
Speaker 1: But we just really didn't see him hit those throws
21:33
Speaker 1: at an extremely high rate like we wanted to from
21:36
Speaker 1: an accuracy standpoint, we didn't. And the negatively grade the
21:39
Speaker 1: throw rate was another concern, not isolating those those true
21:42
Speaker 1: dropback scenarios, taking away play actions, RPO screens, quick throws,
21:47
Speaker 1: looking at throws from inside the pocket. The numbers just
21:50
Speaker 1: weren't that great. Four Desmond Ritter. So you know, I
21:53
Speaker 1: think Cincinnati's gonna have a great team next year. I
21:55
Speaker 1: think they're going to be be one of the better
21:56
Speaker 1: group of five teams again. You know, I love of
21:59
Speaker 1: my Gardener, the cornerback. I think he's going to be
22:01
Speaker 1: started at the NFL level eventually one day. But with
22:04
Speaker 1: Desmond Ritter, he did not crack the top ten, but
22:06
Speaker 1: he is. He was in a conversation with some of
22:09
Speaker 1: the guys here I will say about so you and
22:11
Speaker 1: your colleagues at Pro Football Focus have been cranking out
22:14
Speaker 1: mock drafts about one a week. Most recently, Mike Renner
22:19
Speaker 1: has Jamar Chase going to the Bengals at number five.
22:22
Speaker 1: The week before that, Ben Lindsley Jamar Chase going to
22:25
Speaker 1: the Bengals at number five, the week before that, Steve
22:29
Speaker 1: Palazzolo Jamar Chase going to the Bengals at number five.
22:32
Speaker 1: It seems like the gurus that you work with are
22:36
Speaker 1: in lockstep that if he's there, that's the guy to
22:40
Speaker 1: take to reunite with Joe Burrow. We're all in agreement
22:43
Speaker 1: here and that that doesn't happen often the PFF headquarters here,
22:47
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, we really do think that's the
22:49
Speaker 1: best fit for them. You know, with some of the
22:52
Speaker 1: guys you mentioned, there, all of them, besides Mike. Grinner's
22:55
Speaker 1: kind of you know what we would do if we
22:57
Speaker 1: were in the shoes of the gym. But with Mike,
22:58
Speaker 1: he's kind of trying to predict and really does think
23:00
Speaker 1: that there's a good chance that they do reunite Joe
23:02
Speaker 1: Burrow with Jamar Chase, just because looking back at that
23:05
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen season, I mean, that was a special, very
23:08
Speaker 1: special duo. You know, it's up there with one of
23:10
Speaker 1: the best quarterback wide receiver duos we have ever seen
23:12
Speaker 1: it in the history of college football. I mean, they
23:15
Speaker 1: still hold the PFF college record for this is going
23:18
Speaker 1: back seven seasons for the most deep passing touchdowns and
23:23
Speaker 1: completions in a single year. I mean, it was just
23:26
Speaker 1: kind of record sat our record chattering across the board
23:29
Speaker 1: from both of them. I mean, it was a very
23:31
Speaker 1: elite connection in tandem, and in replicating that in Cincinnati,
23:34
Speaker 1: I think they have a really good chance to do so.
23:36
Speaker 1: Just you know, given the projections that we have on
23:39
Speaker 1: both guys, your projections for Piney Sewell are equally high. Really,
23:44
Speaker 1: I mean, the last time he played a couple of
23:46
Speaker 1: years ago, at the age of nineteen, I think he
23:48
Speaker 1: had the highest PFF grade for an offensive tackle. This
23:52
Speaker 1: is strictly a matter of position, importance and value. Basically,
23:58
Speaker 1: when you are projecting Chase over Paul right, yeah, I
24:03
Speaker 1: mean the Pinnasools player comparisons at the next level favorite
24:07
Speaker 1: pretty well. Um if I recall correctly, his past protection
24:10
Speaker 1: numbers are kind of project him on the path of
24:13
Speaker 1: guys like David Pactiari intrumentally. I mean, it's going he's
24:16
Speaker 1: going to be a very good offensive tackle, but it's
24:19
Speaker 1: just all about you know, his maximum sealing him the
24:22
Speaker 1: value he can generate is a little bit different than
24:24
Speaker 1: what a guy like Jamar Chase can do for an offense.
24:27
Speaker 1: I mean, we do think Jamar Chase is a guy
24:29
Speaker 1: that can put you know, the Bengals over a hump
24:32
Speaker 1: from a versus Pennai suol Is. You know, he's not
24:34
Speaker 1: going to be the guy that's going to add multiple
24:36
Speaker 1: wins to a team just him alone. Jamar Chase has
24:38
Speaker 1: the capability of doing that. Um. So it's just a
24:41
Speaker 1: strict matter of you know, positional value. Pinna Soool is
24:44
Speaker 1: a great, great player. He's going to be a great
24:46
Speaker 1: NFL player if the Bengals do end up you know,
24:48
Speaker 1: landing him. I wouldn't be you know, two matt or
24:51
Speaker 1: upset if I were, you know, a Bengals fan that's
24:53
Speaker 1: kind of listening to PFF and listening to what they
24:55
Speaker 1: have to say. Um. But I do think the right
24:58
Speaker 1: decision at the end of the day is to take
25:00
Speaker 1: one of those three wide receiver prospects, just because I mean,
25:02
Speaker 1: they are three very good wide receiver prospects and any
25:05
Speaker 1: other year they'd be in the conversation for wide receiver one.
25:08
Speaker 1: So I mean, I think these guys are kind of
25:10
Speaker 1: can't miss too. So I do think because of the
25:13
Speaker 1: positional value, that's the way you should leave. So I
25:16
Speaker 1: am going to allow you to spend the Bengals money.
25:18
Speaker 1: You have signed Taylor Moton and Joe Tuney as free agents.
25:21
Speaker 1: You have resigned Will Jackson. You have drafted Jamar Chase
25:25
Speaker 1: in the first round. So basically they followed your what
25:28
Speaker 1: to do blueprint for this offseason. How good can the
25:32
Speaker 1: Bengals be if they execute those moves? Are most of
25:35
Speaker 1: those moves, I think they can be a playoff team.
25:39
Speaker 1: Maybe it's going to be tough, maybe next year and
25:42
Speaker 1: year one, but I do think the year after that
25:43
Speaker 1: I think that would put them in that, you know,
25:45
Speaker 1: the very competitive team status. You know, their division is
25:48
Speaker 1: a very interesting one, just because the Pittsburgh Steelers, I
25:50
Speaker 1: don't think they're going to be very good next year.
25:53
Speaker 1: Ben Roethlisberger is clearly declining in their their cap situations
25:56
Speaker 1: pretty bad as it is right now. But looking at
25:59
Speaker 1: the Cleveland Browns and Baltimore Ravens, I mean these two teams,
26:02
Speaker 1: I mean, Cleveland Browns are an offensive juggernaut in the
26:04
Speaker 1: making of Baltimore Ravens are still there. So there, it's
26:07
Speaker 1: going to be a very competitive division. And for that reason,
26:10
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure they would put themselves into put
26:12
Speaker 1: out contention, you know, right away in your one, but
26:15
Speaker 1: I do think, you know, the year after, they would
26:18
Speaker 1: definitely be up there with all this talent they have.
26:20
Speaker 1: As I mentioned at the top, you've been putting out
26:22
Speaker 1: some very interesting material about the Bengals in the entire
26:25
Speaker 1: NFL of late. I've enjoyed reading it and looking at it.
26:29
Speaker 1: Anything coming up in the near future that you're working
26:31
Speaker 1: on that we can look forward to. We've got all
26:33
Speaker 1: kinds of free agency stuff coming out in the coming days.
26:36
Speaker 1: Have our most overrated underrated free agents. Be sure to
26:39
Speaker 1: check that out over at PFF dot com. But the
26:41
Speaker 1: biggest thing we have is our NFL Draft Guide. Our guy,
26:44
Speaker 1: my Printer, who we've mentioned a few different times. I mean,
26:46
Speaker 1: he was just absolutely grinding this thing out for the
26:48
Speaker 1: last couple of months. I think we're at two hundred
26:49
Speaker 1: and fifty player profiles with like three or four pages
26:52
Speaker 1: of data and analysis, you know, advanced scouting reports in
26:56
Speaker 1: there too, So it's only going to grow. I think
26:58
Speaker 1: he might actually hitting three hundred sure if he's going
27:00
Speaker 1: to sleep in the next couple of weeks. But yeah,
27:02
Speaker 1: i'd be sure to check that out over at PF
27:04
Speaker 1: dot com. It's available over there, Anthony, great stuff. Freely
27:07
Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us today, of course,
27:10
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. I downloaded the Pro Football Focus
27:14
Speaker 1: Draft Guide yesterday, and it's impressive since the PFF guys
27:18
Speaker 1: are so high on the idea of drafting LSU wide
27:21
Speaker 1: receiver Jamar Chase. Here are a few nuggets about him
27:25
Speaker 1: that I found interesting. Two years ago with Joe Brewit quarterback,
27:29
Speaker 1: Chase caught eighty four of the one hundred twenty one
27:32
Speaker 1: passes thrown his way. That's sixty nine percent. But here's
27:36
Speaker 1: what's really impressive. We're not talking about screens or easy completions.
27:41
Speaker 1: The average distance of those passes was fourteen point three yards,
27:47
Speaker 1: and furthermore, Chase averaged eight point one yards after the catch.
27:53
Speaker 1: I have consistently been saying that if Piney Sewell is
27:55
Speaker 1: on the board at number five, he should be the
27:58
Speaker 1: Bengals first round pick. But I've to admit the gang
28:01
Speaker 1: at Pro Football Focus has me reconsidering. The Bengals Booth
28:06
Speaker 1: podcast is presented by Bud Light Seltzer. It's light and
28:10
Speaker 1: refreshing with a hint of fruit flavor. Now time for
28:14
Speaker 1: an installment of story Time with Dan. This is something
28:26
Speaker 1: I started doing a few years ago when I hosted
28:28
Speaker 1: sports talk on WLW Radio. And here's the concept. I've
28:32
Speaker 1: been broadcasting in some way, shape or form since weaving
28:35
Speaker 1: My Magic on the student radio station at Syracuse University.
28:39
Speaker 1: I've had a wide variety of wonderful experiences on and
28:43
Speaker 1: off the air and some that weren't quite as wonderful.
28:46
Speaker 1: And I'm about to share one this week in story
28:49
Speaker 1: Time with Dan. It's my OJ Simpson story. Here goes.
28:55
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that for many of you, Ken Anderson, Boome, Osiason,
28:59
Speaker 1: Chad John or AJ Green was your childhood sports hero,
29:03
Speaker 1: especially if you're a die hard Bengals fan. Well, I
29:06
Speaker 1: grew up a little bit south of Buffalo, and my
29:09
Speaker 1: childhood sports hero was OJ Simpson. The first NFL game
29:14
Speaker 1: I ever attended in person was a Monday night game
29:17
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three between the Bills and the Kansas
29:20
Speaker 1: City Chiefs. That night, OJ st an NFL record at
29:24
Speaker 1: the time for carries in a game with thirty nine
29:27
Speaker 1: and rushed for one hundred and fifty seven yards. It
29:31
Speaker 1: put him over one thousand yards for the season, and
29:34
Speaker 1: it was only Week seven that was the year that
29:37
Speaker 1: Oj became the first runner in NFL history to top
29:40
Speaker 1: the two thousand yard mark, and he did it in
29:43
Speaker 1: a fourteen game season. In any case, OJ Simpson was
29:47
Speaker 1: my guy. My bedroom walls were a Simpson shrine when
29:51
Speaker 1: I was a paper boy. As a kid, I ran
29:54
Speaker 1: from house to house pretending that I was the juice.
29:57
Speaker 1: And when Buffalo traded him to San Francisco for five
30:00
Speaker 1: draft picks in nineteen seventy eight, it might have been
30:03
Speaker 1: the saddest day of my childhood. So now let's fast
30:08
Speaker 1: forward to adulthood and get to my O. J. Simpson story.
30:12
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety four, the final year of the Bill's
30:15
Speaker 1: run of four strade trips to the Super Bowl, I
30:17
Speaker 1: was working as a TV sports anchor at WTVH five
30:21
Speaker 1: in Syracuse, and I covered a divisional playoff game in
30:25
Speaker 1: Buffalo between the Bills and the Raiders. It's notable because
30:29
Speaker 1: it's the coldest weather game in Bill's history, and that's
30:32
Speaker 1: saying something. The temperature at kickoff was zero and the
30:36
Speaker 1: wind chill was minus thirty two. Not quite the Freezer Bowl,
30:41
Speaker 1: but definitely bone chilling. My TV station got three press
30:46
Speaker 1: passes for every Bill's home game, one for a reporter,
30:50
Speaker 1: one for a videographer, and one for a videographer's assistant
30:54
Speaker 1: who could help with the equipment. Well, that day, the
30:57
Speaker 1: videographer's assistant was my girlfriend and now wife, Peg. It
31:03
Speaker 1: was legit. She did help us with the equipment, but
31:06
Speaker 1: she was mostly there to watch the game. When we
31:09
Speaker 1: got to the stadium, I told her there was no
31:11
Speaker 1: way she was going to stay outside in that minus
31:14
Speaker 1: thirty two degree winchill. So after we helped the photographer
31:17
Speaker 1: with his gear, me and Peg headed for the toasty
31:20
Speaker 1: comfort of the press box. But it was a playoff
31:23
Speaker 1: game and the press box was packed. Only people that
31:27
Speaker 1: specifically had a press box seat could get in. So,
31:31
Speaker 1: being a gentleman or idiot, you make the call. I
31:36
Speaker 1: told Peg to use my pass for the warm press
31:38
Speaker 1: box and I would use the other pass and watch
31:41
Speaker 1: the game from the sideline. Bad move. I wasn't quite
31:46
Speaker 1: as crazy as Dave Lapham and his fellow offensive lineman
31:49
Speaker 1: going with short sleeves in the freezer bowl, but I
31:52
Speaker 1: was dressed for going on TV. I had dressed shoes on,
31:56
Speaker 1: I didn't have an especially warm winter coat, and there's
31:59
Speaker 1: no way I was to make it through four quarters
32:01
Speaker 1: in those frigid conditions. So I went looking for a
32:05
Speaker 1: warm spot at field level where I could still follow
32:08
Speaker 1: the game, and I found one in the Bill's weight room.
32:11
Speaker 1: The heat was on. There was a little black and
32:14
Speaker 1: white TV, and there was a small group of people
32:17
Speaker 1: sitting in front of that TV, the NBC Sports pregame
32:21
Speaker 1: show crew, consisting of a few former coaches and players,
32:25
Speaker 1: including you guessed it, my childhood hero OJ Simpson. Well,
32:30
Speaker 1: this was a dream come true. Not only had I
32:33
Speaker 1: found warmth and a TV, but I was about to
32:36
Speaker 1: watch an NFL playoff game, basically looking over the shoulder
32:40
Speaker 1: of the guy I grew up idolizing. I was one
32:43
Speaker 1: of about three or four guys standing there, and as
32:46
Speaker 1: we watched the game, we could hear what OJ and
32:48
Speaker 1: the other analysts were talking about. And it wasn't strictly
32:52
Speaker 1: the game. Let's just say there was some locker room talk. Well.
32:58
Speaker 1: Right after he finished telling a story, noticed for the
33:00
Speaker 1: first time that they were a handful of strangers standing nearby,
33:04
Speaker 1: including yours. Truly, Simpson wasn't pleased, so he summoned a
33:09
Speaker 1: security guy who asked us to leave the weight room
33:13
Speaker 1: and go back out onto the field. In short o,
33:17
Speaker 1: J Simpson forced me to watch the rest of that
33:20
Speaker 1: game outdoors in my TV clothes with a minus thirty
33:24
Speaker 1: two degree win chill. It's obviously not the worst thing
33:28
Speaker 1: he's ever been accused of doing, but it's not exactly
33:31
Speaker 1: what you're hoping for the first time you're in the
33:33
Speaker 1: presence of your childhood hero. And that concludes this episode
33:39
Speaker 1: of story Time with Dan, and that's going to do
33:49
Speaker 1: it for this week's episode of The Bengals Booth podcast,
33:51
Speaker 1: brought to you by bud Light, Seltzer refreshed the game.
33:55
Speaker 1: If you haven't done so already, please subscribe and if
33:58
Speaker 1: you have a minute, give it a rating or eric
34:00
Speaker 1: comment that helps more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm
34:04
Speaker 1: Dan Horde and thanks for listening to the Bengals Booth
34:08
Speaker 1: Podcast