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286: Building Generational Wealth & Legacy Through Infinite Banking with Thomas O’Connell · Wealth On Main Street

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:11
  Speaker B: Welcome to wealth on Main street where conversations about growing your wealth are fun and entertaining. Wealth isn't just about money. It's the skills and the knowledge that we develop to pass on to future generations. Tune in each week to grow your mindset and your net worth at the same time. How exactly do you retire on your own terms and keep wealth working for generations? Well, we're joined together by a friend of mine, Tom oconnell. Excited to have you here. He's an authorized infinite banking practitioner. He's got over 30 years helping high net worth families protect and grow their wealth. Someone who's met and been mentored by Nelson. Amazing guy. Tom, excited to have you with us here today. Thanks for joining the program.
• 0:58
  Speaker A: Thanks, Richard. It's great to be here. I appreciate it and thanks for those kind words.
• 1:03
  Speaker B: Yeah, no problem. We, you know, I don't know, it's been probably at least 10 years or so since you and I first met at a think tank, you know, long, long ago. And one thing I really appreciate, of course, about the, the Nelson Nash Institute and the, and the camaraderie and the connection and you know, coincidentally before we hit record, we were talking about some long standing camaraderie connection you have with another organization that, that you get to participate with. It's just been such a joy to get to know and meet people like yourself in the community and how you really stand up for Nelson's principles. What binds us and connects us together is this, this amazing guy Nelson, who's no longer with us, but his concept, his book, the people that we, you know, continue to show up is just such a, an amazing connection point because we're all, we're all kind of marching together towards helping, you know, our, our fellow, you know, men on this, you know, men and women on the planet doing things financially to better themselves and the generations that follow. So yeah. How did you first learn about the infinite banking concept?
• 2:02
  Speaker A: So, you know, as you mentioned, thanks for making me feel so old. I've been at this for quite a while and one of my beginning parts of my career was working with a well known US insurance company and I kind of fell into the, to the business. It wasn't what I was originally looking to do.
• 2:28
  Speaker B: When you fell in, was it a soft landing or a hard landing?
• 2:32
  Speaker A: It was a tough one. So my, my background is I have a degree in criminal justice with a minor in political science and German language. Look how far that got me. Right. So, and here I am. But you know, I, I learned about life insurance from this company. And this was way before, you know, Nelson published any of his books or anything like that. And but I, I always knew there was something about this, there was something more to it than just, hey, a death benefit. Right. So I learned that you could accumulate some money in it. Wealth. You know, at the time we didn't talk about it as being wealth. It was cash value. Right. And then the design of the products were much different back then. Like I can remember my father, my mother having these super old endowment policies. And so they weren't even like, they were kind of like life insurance, but then they were kind of like pension plan. So I always knew there was something to it. But to get back to your question, really the first I had heard about Infinite Banking, I didn't really know anybody in it or anything like that. Then I came across an advertisement for a gentleman that's in our group, Tom Young, who lives out in like mid Midwest Pennsylvania. And it was actually near where my mom and dad had moved out to when they retired. And so I saw this ad that Nelson was going to be there and they were doing this two day program. So I called Tom and I said, hey look, you know, I'm an agent. You know, this is something that I've always been very intrigued by. Blah, blah, would you mind if I came and watched? And he was very gracious, very, you know, he just said, hey, no problem. You know, we do this really for our clients. But if you, I think he said, if you chip in 50 bucks then you can come. And so that was real. So I did. And Paul Cleveland was there, David Stearns was there, Kim I think Lee was there. They had their table selling all the different books and all that kind of stuff. So that was really my first technical introduction to Nelson and to the program. As soon as that two day session was over, I was in. Yeah, you know, I was on board. I got, I forget if, if I had called or, or they sent me something, but I haven't missed a think tank since.
• 5:09
  Speaker B: Yeah, amazing. Yeah, I love that. It's, it's incredible what Nelson was able to do in two days and just the reframing but the, the way of bringing a group together, connecting people around.
• 5:20
  Speaker A: I was just going to say that.
• 5:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's like a mag. It was like a, there's a magnetism. There was a feeling in any, any room that he was in speaking from. There was a, a real palpable feeling taking place in the room. That was my experience every time.
• 5:35
  Speaker A: Yeah, in, in, you know, he's Such a humble guy that it, what, it wasn't like he was trying to be the center of attention, but it just happened. It was, you know, he was like a magnet and you know, you know, he would say something and he didn't say a lot, so you knew when he said something it was important and it was worth listening to. You know, he was very quiet, very humble. He shuffled in and he shuffled out, you know, you know, he didn't come in all bravo and all that kind of stuff. So, but like you just said too, you know, it's amazing. I forget even how long I've been a certified advisor. Since the beginning of the certification. Right. So was it 12 or 14 years since we started it? You know, the, the people, we have a really super strong community and we're, you and I are thousands of miles apart, but we've become friends, we share, we help and that's, that goes along with everybody in the group. I mean, if you look behind me, right on my bookshelf is the, is the Richard Canfield and Jason Loeb book. Back there, in the, back there I.
• 6:59
  Speaker B: See a Nelson book or Ryan Griggs book and one of ours, which is wonderful. And I don't know what's on the lower stack on the shelf below that, but I bet you there's some great stuff in there too.
• 7:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, there's, there's stuff in there, but there's some of, that's my ed slot stuff. Some of that's my libertarian Austrian School of Economics, you know, principal books and all that kind of stuff, but there's a mishmash of everything.
• 7:24
  Speaker B: Well, and speaking of books, this is a great time to mention an incredible endeavor that really you came up with in spearheaded, which I, I, I'm super pumped and excited about and I'd like to just do a shout out for it. And that's, that's a new book that is going to be put together by the Nelson Ash Institute, but it's really led by Tom, your idea, you came up with this idea at a think tank and you've been, you know, pushing it over to the finish line which, which is a lot of effort and it's really a collection of volume, volume one at least of infinite banking success stories from clients from their perspective with, you know, whether, you know, the advisor sharing that, that, that experience. And so, um, you've been patient with me in getting a chapter put together. I, I, I think I got the bulk of it done and sent over to you. It needs to be refined, of course, but you Know, I'm really excited to be able to share and, and have that client story in the book. I'm also excited about reading personally. What are some of those other stories? Because we hear them at events that we go to, but right. They're, they're usually it's an advisor event. It's like not everyone doesn't get a chance to have that experience. And your idea of, you know, rather than, you know, Tom going and putting this book together, it's no, the Nelson Esh Institute's putting this book together and Tom's helping do it. So that, that servant driven leadership model. I really appreciate Tom. I want to say thank you for that because that's amazing and it's just an exciting project and it's one that could lead to multiple other ones as we continue to grow, continue to help people, more advisors come on board. It's really going to be something that's going to be a growing asset for the institute and for every authorized practitioner that, you know, is part of that platform.
• 8:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, I hope so. I hope it's the success that you're building it up to be. And as a side note, you know, you and Jason have also put a ton of effort, more than most and probably more than we deserve, into the institute itself. I mean, you're, you're hosting the think tanks these days and bas, you guys are kind of driving that agenda and, and making sure that these are successful endeavors that we're, we're involved in. So I appreciate that from you and I thank, you know, you and, and Jason and, and the whole group for doing that kind of stuff because without you guys, you know, we might not even have a functioning program because of that. So, you know, so I, I want to make sure that you get, you get, you get the credit that you deserve for that as well.
• 9:49
  Speaker B: Well, I really appreciate you saying that and, and I'm also curious, you know, with that in mind is what are some of the, you know, some of the changes that you've seen because you, you've been there basically from the beginning, the inception of the program. And what would you say are some of the things that you've seen shift and change in the last couple of years and what has you excited about the future?
• 10:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think one of the, one of the bigger shifts is there's a lot more participation, audience participation. Right. So instead of just someone talking at you, and I don't mean in a bad way, but you know, someone talking at you, now it's, hey, we break up into the, into Little groups. Maybe it's easier to share something amongst five people than it is amongst 300 people. Maybe it's not so intimidating for, you know, some, you know, we like, we, we could talk in front of, you know, 10,000 people or 10 people. Other people can't do that. And so, you know, I think there's a, there's a more com. There's a higher degree of comfort amongst the participants when we do things like that. And then we're dealing with exercises that help you understand it a little bit more. Again, as opposed to just running through an illustration or running through some type of Excel spreadsheet or whatever it is. You know, now we're, hey, this is what happened. This is what we said. This is why we did it. This is, you know, that kind of thing. And then, and, and then finding what that end story success is. And that's really kind of circling back. You know, that's really what the idea of this book is about, you know, is walking through from the agent's perspective and the client perspective. You know, how did I hear about it? How did I go about reaching out or finding the pert, you know, the, the person to help me? What was it I was looking for? What did I, what were my needs? And then how did we fit this program, this lifestyle, you know, we call it really Infinite Banking is a lifestyle, it's not a product. How did I fit this? And then what, what was the success that I got out of it? And you know, we have, I think David Stern said last time was about 350 certified advisors around the US and Canada, something along those lines somewhere.
• 12:24
  Speaker B: And several people in the program that haven't completed it yet, but are in process.
• 12:28
  Speaker A: Yeah. And we always have people matriculating through. Right. We should be able to come up with 15 success stories and 15 success stories every couple of years. And it, and it, they don't have to be big. It could be, hey, this is how I got my kid or kids through college using this. This is how I retired. This is how I started my business. This is how I. There's going to be a story by one of our folks about how one of his clients was able to, to buy and build the. A dream hunting cabin with their dad. Right. And how someone. I have a story pending about someone who, whose spouse became very ill and they were, and they, they didn't think they were going to be able to afford to the medicine, the health care that she needed and the policy provided that. So these are the kinds of stories that you Know, because what are some, you know, you, you introduce this to someone and, and I'm sure it's the same where you are as it is with me. Is this real? Can you really do this? Is this, isn't this against the law?
• 13:43
  Speaker B: It's just too good to be true, Tom.
• 13:45
  Speaker A: Too good to be true.
• 13:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, right.
• 13:48
  Speaker A: This, this never works for anybody. You know, I saw on TV or on TikTok or YouTube that this is just, you know, you know, a scam kind of thing. And so what we're going to, what we're going to just simply try to lay out is 10, 15 success stories from 10 and 15 different advisors with 10 or 15, hopefully different themes. Right. We don't want a book of just all college planning success stories. We want, we want all different ones and we want, and then we want people to be able to get a feel for who that certified advisor is. Because, look, I, you know, my, my way of doing things or, you know, may not rub well with somebody, but they may read a story about somebody else that they like a lot more or feel that can get that point across or that need across to them better than I could or somebody else. Right. So we want to give not only the advisor a platform, we want to give the consumer a platform to work off of as well. And, you know, I think if we can get through this first volume, this is, I think this is the toughest one. You know, I think it was Warren Buffett who said the first million is the toughest to make. After that, it gets kind of easy. I think this first volume is a tough one because I do think there's, even within our circles, I think there's a little bit of doubt or, you know, hey, is this really going to kind of work? Is this really going to work or be what we think it is? So hopefully the book will be ready where the plan is, it's going to be in print, ready to go, ready for people to utilize at the think tank 2026. So fingers crossed that all works out that way.
• 15:40
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'm excited for it. I think, I think it's reasonable to hit that target. And I know that you've done a real push in the last kind of couple of months, last couple months, especially, including a good, a good push on me because I, I needed it and so we all do. I, I, I'm thankful for that and I, I think that's a great, you know, release time February. So for those of you watching February 2026, hopefully we've got this amazing book from the Nelson National Institute out and available on these client stories. And you know, if you're, if you're already doing IBC in your life, if you're already practicing this, you're already making it a lifestyle. One of the best ways to learn and continue to grow because it's infinite, because you're always growing and developing and is by getting that thought process and understanding of how other people are also doing it. Because that's the exposure to the unknown and seeing some of those other paths. And that opens up the doorway to your thought process. And so, you know, I was sharing with you, Tom, earlier today, we started doing an initiative where typically on Friday, depending on where you live in time zone, afternoon or morning, we have kind of like an open office hours like a lunch, lunch and learn situation that we do on a webinar and people can just jump in. It could be people who are, you know, just learning. They haven't even started yet. Existing clients. And so far I've been on a couple of them, haven't been on all them, but I was able to lead the one today. It was a lot of fun. We didn't have a huge group, maybe 25 people or something like that. And there was some consistent people that I know names that I see. They're, they're, they're, they're kind of the diehards. We see them at every session. They, we know that they listen to the podcast. They're really engaged in our content. Wonderful people. I, people I think are developing as like leaders in our community because they show up all the time, they always provide feedback and then they, they're commenting in the chat box. So they're helping, they're helping everyone else who's there in their own way, which is really phenomenal. And then of course we had new people asking some similar questions. But the, the stories being told about somebody's circumstance. We talked a little about some corporate policies today. We talked about some, some loan structuring. We talked about some, I think there might have been question about converting term insurance. So, so it was kind of all over the map, unstructured. But it gave a really good overview for people listening to hear what's going on for this individual and, and, and how does that tackle their challenge or problem. And that opens up a lot of awareness and it really causes a new line of thinking. And Nelson said it's all about how we think. Right.
• 17:53
  Speaker A: And, and you have to be o, like you just said, you have to be open minded to be able to take in all of that because you don't have to be an expert, like, you don't have to be an expert in corporate policies. But you want to know that, hey, if that came up in a conversation with somebody, I know who to go to to help me with that. Right? So whatever, whatever it is, if it's about term conversions or if it's about how to structure a loan or how to structure your pua. Right. Rider Correctly. Right. It's all about, hey, I don't know. I don't have to know everything about everything because we have that community that I know that I can go to someone and I can get that help that I need, and that's invaluable. Right. Just know you don't want to be an island. That's something that, you know, I guess a couple of meetings ago, that was one of the themes that you guys, you and Jason really pushed. And I mean, honestly, that's my comfort level is being an island. And you and I had this conversation in private, you know, after a couple of those meetings, it was just. And it. For me, that's tough to. To be out there and doing that. But. But that's part of growing, right? And that's part of our community. Because now, you know, I know I can do that safely. And, you know, I have the people that are there that can be the, you know, the support system that all of us need.
• 19:34
  Speaker B: Right? Yeah, I, I appreciate it. I love, I love, I love a. That you feel that way and also that you're embracing it. Right. I think that's really key. And, and so you can know something, but then doing something about it is another element. And being an active participant, we encourage people to be an active participant in their financial life. We think that the process of infinite banking is the best way to do that because it, it forces habits, it forces thinking differently. And by thinking differently and then implementing which is the actions and the habits, you create a steamroll effect over a long period of time. It doesn't happen overnight. It happens over, you know, it's not just. It's like a policy. It gets more efficient over time. Well, so do your habits and your behaviors. So those two things kind of working side by side, hand in hand with one another really is what can create a big impact over a long period. And then when you think about, hey, the remainder of your lifespan, then you think about your kids or your grandkids, and then you think about, okay, well, how much time did they have? And then you think, okay, well, people are also living longer. So you know, my, my kids are about to be 8 and 10 years old. And so, you know, it's very, very feasible and reasonable that, that by the time that they get out to a later stage of life, that the, the common age is age 100. You know, today that's not the case, but. Right. It's pushing further that direction. And so, so then for their, their kids, what's going to be the, the life expectancy for their children? Is it going to be 120? I mean, who knows? So you kind of add this all up and I'm thinking, wow, like, what I'm doing today has an impact. That's potentially the equivalent of time that the United States has been a country. You guys are about to celebrate the big, the big 250. I mean, you think about throwing a rock in a pond and the ripple effect. That's the power of the ripple effect you're doing financially by embracing this process right now. Yep.
• 21:26
  Speaker A: So, so supposedly, scientists are saying the first person to live to 150 years old is alive today. They don't know who it is. That's why they do underwriting. But they say that that person is alive. My goal, my personal goal is to outlive my insurance policy in the U.S. now, they pay out at 121. Your life insurance policy matures at 1 21. So, I mean, I would probably donate the check to my daughter, but I would love to be able to get that check from the insurance company saying, you know what? You're too old. We have to pay out.
• 22:05
  Speaker B: You know, they talk about, about the importance of having big goals. That's a big goal. Right? That's a great.
• 22:10
  Speaker A: I'd be doubling my life, my life here on Earth right now.
• 22:14
  Speaker B: So I'm with you on that. And I hadn't considered it before I joined Strategic Coach. And I didn't know about Strategic Coach until I became part of the Nelson Nash Institute because somebody mentioned in my. Wow, Strategic Coach. That sounds cool. What's that? And then a bunch of people are in it. So I learned all about that and, and the idea of a longevity mindset. And so literally, I have this, this book on my desk here, which is a great book, and I'll do a shout out for it. And it's Peter Diamandez, the Longevity Guidebook. You know, so here's a guy, he's a futurist. He has a great podcast with Dan Sullivan called, I think it's called Exponential Wisdom. And it's all about future thinking, a lot of tech and Longevity kind of aspects, but he's involved in everything that's about extending the human lifespan. Like, so, you know, if you can change your thinking around that and then you realize that there's a potential or possibility, then you also have to start thinking, okay, well, what do I need to do so that I can enjoy that extended lifespan? And it's not just what you need to do financially and what habits. It's the people that you surround yourself with. It's the people that you think about continuing to grow relationships with. Because if you're growing and aging up, everyone's aging up with you. And so are you also intentionally making connections with the youth, Whatever that, that relevance point for you is because they bring in a youthful energy, they bring in a different mindset. There's mentorship, there's coaching that's available there. So those are fulfilling activities. All of that brings and lends more purpose to your life. And so this doesn't have a direct connection to Infinite Banking, but it has an indirect one. And, and where I see that, Tom, for me, and I'd love to get your perspective on this, is, is. Is through the actions of Nelson himself. You know, I really, truly felt like I had. I had a mentorship relationship with him, though I didn't speak to him maybe as frequently as other people did. Anytime I did get that, it was like. It was like a. An incredible experience. And so he. He really vested in other people, and he was extremely intentional about finding younger individuals. Yeah, granted, he had a lot of people that were younger than him at the point in time that I got to know him and. But he would. He would just light up like a Christmas tree when he got to invest and see. He would see younger people coming to event. Sometimes you would go to session that Nelson was. You know, someone was hosting Nelson and there would be teenagers there, like parents bringing their. Their teenager on, and they're getting it right away. They're. They're participating in the discussion. Man, Nelson just loved that activity.
• 24:39
  Speaker A: No, he. Yeah, he loved being able to see. I mean, he's a foster.
• 24:44
  Speaker B: He.
• 24:45
  Speaker A: He envisioned second and third generations in, I think in everything that he did, whether it was speaking, living his life, his business life, whatever it was. I mean, he. I think he. He really lived that, you know, generational thinking all the time. And, you know, I. I told the story on the. On the Nelson Nash Institute podcast that I did with David and Lee. You know, I held an event that Nelson and Bob and Carlos and David came. Came to and did. And at the time My daughter was really young and we, we all went out to dinner and then my daughter and I took Nelson back to the hotel and as we were leaving, Nelson hugged Emma and said, I love you. And so when we got into the car, she was like, you know, I don't even know him and that, you know, and he hugged me and said, I love you. I said, that's just the kind of guy that Nelson is. And he means it, you know, and it was just that. And that's the, you know, that's the spirit of Nelson to me. I'm like, you, you know, one, you know, I probably should have done more with them. I know people that probably called them every week from our group. Me, it wasn't that often, but I look back and I wish I did more. And so I hope that if other advisors in our organization are watching this, they know that, hey, we're there for them. Especially, I mean, I love seeing, you know, these 20 and 30 year old kids coming into our organization now. And I call them kids because you. They are to me. Right. But yeah, I think it's phenomenal that they're taking an interest in it now and that they're not brainwashed into a lot of the old ways of thinking that maybe were pushed on us. The old, you know, you have to invest money, you have to put your money at risk there, you know, there's no guarantees. You have to do this, you have to. Nah, they're willing to listen, learn. And even the young, younger kids are saying, hey, my kids, they might not even have kids yet, but they're thinking my kids. And I think it's just again, a tribute to Nelson and create and putting together a group of people that will help facilitate that thinking.
• 27:40
  Speaker B: It's so interesting you mentioning that the timing is kind of unique because you're talking about of course, the advisors and the correlation of that is now the impact of the people that they're helping, which is likely people mostly in the urge category. And then, and then they have lots of time in the industry ahead of them as long as they stick with it because unfortunately the failure rate is very high in our industry still to this day. I think it's, I think it's lower in our unique bubble because of some of the mentorship aspects that are available. That's my personal opinion. But you know, we had someone post a comment on our podcast channel recently and literally I'm going to be recording a video about this later today, Tom, but so that one might release before our episode releases and this this young, I believe it's a young gal. She Sundays, I'm an 18 year old student and this July I'm determined to build long term wealth and create a portfolio of income generating properties. I work part time. I also do some things for my parents. They pay me, you know, 30 bucks a week for doing some chores and, and then my 10 year old sister has the same mindset as me. I'm like, oh wow, that's interesting. And then she said, I just learned about infinite banking through your videos and I'm motivated to start as early as possible. Could you do some stuff to help us get on the right path? And I'm like, wow, what an incredible question. And so that, you know, that is probably not the norm, but if that is the norm or became the norm, how amazing would that be for the future ahead of us? I mean, you know, I don't know it all. I really want to learn. I'm super curious, I'm motivated, I'm willing to do things like that is, that is kind of what I remember growing up when I was younger, kind of being a farm kid in a small town. That element I'm seeing here in this post, I'm like, wow, the fact that we're receiving that and she's getting switched onto that early on, I really hope that that's going to spread amongst her peers and we're going to see a lot more of that taking place in that Gen Z, Gen Alpha, kind of as they begin to age up to a position where they can start to do this for themselves.
• 29:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And for as much as I'm not a tech person at all, I'm not a social media person or I'm not good at it. Right. One thing I will give credit to the Tick Tock and the social medias of the world, the Instagrams and all the, the YouTubers, is that we have a lot of content on there and it is reaching more and more people. And I think the, the, the, the Gen Z's and the Alphas see opportunity that, you know, maybe we didn't have or our parents didn't have because we didn't have this kind of outreach or ability to outreach. Right. But they're also, you know, I hear my daughter say it all the time, you know, the side hustle generation, they're looking to make a buck and they're looking to save a buck and they're, and they are looking to their, you know, even a 20 year old is looking to, to their retirement, believe it or not. And so they are willing, if you can get that person at the right time during the, you know, the right part of their life, and just educate them that, hey, not everything is about tomorrow and show them why they're. They're on board. You know, they want vacation homes, they want families, they want college education. They want all the same things that we do. And I think that one of the powers of today's technology is that they see at a much earlier age that it's attainable for them. You know, back, you know, in the 80s when I was going to college, we didn't have any. We, we didn't have computers. I wasn't writing on slate like my daughter thinks I was. But, you know, again, we didn't have, we didn't have the information available to us. And I think my life and a lot of people's lives would have been different if we had that available. Right. I mean, Nelson's book really didn't become super popular until the 2000s. It was out there earlier. But a guy who was in the business starting in 1986, 87, I had no way of knowing it existed. We didn't have Barnes and Nobles, we didn't have the Amazon. We didn't have, you know, so if, if you weren't really in that sphere, you would never known that it existed. And I think that's one of the great advantage advantages that the youth have today. And a lot of them have embraced it. And there's a. I mean, there's, there can be a lot of great, exciting things that are going to be happening over the next 20, 30, 40 years. Plus, I keep telling my daughter, you're, listen, you're the one who's going to have to wipe my chin when I start drooling. So you better get on board with some of this stuff.
• 32:45
  Speaker B: You want to be able to pass over the knowledge base, the value system. And like you, I'm excited about the next number of years for a whole, whole host of reasons. And it's interesting, I, I was thinking about a recent conversation I had with a client of mine. Awesome guy has been doing this now. I think he's might be 10 years, maybe just end, you know, in kind of the 11th year of getting started with, you know, with this process. It's got a number of policies, but kind of recently, basically through some circumstances, kind of hitting the reset button on a variety of areas of life. And the result of that is, you know, he's, he's had to, had to take a policy and actually shrink it. We, we Reduced it in size because we, we started it and there was a plan for everything. But then there was a business hiccup and so we kind of said, okay, things didn't work out. Two years later, let's, let's bring this back down to something that's, that's sustainable. And then in our recent, most recent conversation, it's like, hey, he's back on speed with things. He's got a big plan. He's repaying. He's already repaid like 30, 40,000 in some policy loans in the last like six months. He's really ramping things up. And he's like, hey, I had to go replace my car, it's 11 years old. I went and did that. I just temporarily financed it with a third party because I'm hitting reset. He's replenish punishing things, but in the next couple of months I want to be able to, to take that off. And so he's going to be running that capital through his system when we walk through what was going to happen when he did it. And then we looked at like the 30 year down the line impact of making sure he get that money into PUA because he does have a policy that will accept that money before he goes to pay off the car. And it's like, wow, the impact is pretty drastic. And then, and then it turns out he's going to be selling a rental property that he has next year and it's in the Ontario marketplace. He's had a pretty good increase in the value of that since he owned the property. So he's expecting a pretty good chunk of change. He will not be able to accept all of it, but we can get a pretty decent chunk of it in. And then we looked at the impact of that and it's like, wow, that the, the decision to get, you know, $130,000 worth of this equity that he's going to receive off the sale of this property into this machine that can accept it is, is a drastic, you know, it's a, it's, it's a, it's a one and a half to two million dollar impact by age 100 for this guy. I mean, it's a big deal. And just to be able to have that conversation and say, you know, he's like, well, should I just pay off my policy loans? I'm like, well, you can do that. And yes, we need to balance that. But you have a temporary option here to do something really powerful. Here's the opportunity cost of getting it in the machine and here's the opportunity cost of just paying off the loans. So, like, you need to make a balancing decision there. And the fact that we could even have a constructive conversation about that. And I mean, we, We, Tom, we get to do this. You know, sometimes you got to pinch yourself, like, wow, we. We get to have these conversations with you. It's unbelievable.
• 35:27
  Speaker A: Yeah. You know, and again, I. It's a testament to the way that you design policies for your clients that allow for that kind of flexibility, that allow for, hey, what if things aren't working a couple of years down the road exactly the way that we've planned, or we thought they were going to, because we all. We all need to reset every once in a while. We all have hiccups in life. So being able, again, as a testament to you, your team, to allowing for that, for the client to have that happen. But, yeah, I mean, you know, watching a client have a place that they can create their wealth, their generational wealth that, you know, I was having a conversation with someone just the other day about it, a prospective client. I said, and we always say this as a group. What we're doing is an and program. You're going to have your infinite bank and you're going to have your gold bars, your business, Your S&P 500 fund, your shore house. See, I'm from New Jersey. It's a shore. It's not a beach. Right. Your mountain cabin, whatever it is, your vacation, whatever it is that you want to do. We're the only, only institution, if you will, that creates an and not an or situation for you. In the. In the traditional world, you have to sell something in order to get something else. Where we're providing you a platform to create a foundation for yourself, a light, a legacy, a generational foundation that allows you not only to live your life, but to create a multiple on whatever else you do. Right. So if your client is putting money into PUAs and then borrowing to buy a rental property, he's getting more than just an ROI on that rental property because he's still getting an ROI on his policy. And when you put those together, it's way bigger than just one or the other. And that's why, you know, I always say it's in. I always use this as a simple example for people. Every year, I borrow money using my policies so that I can make a contribution to my Roth ira, and then I invest my Roth IRA the way I want, and then all I'm doing is replenishing my capital pool by paying the loan back. So I can do both. I don't have to sacrifice one for the other. And that's one of the, I think, the unbelievable benefits of what we do.
• 38:37
  Speaker B: Well, similarly, I, you know, I have a policy that I set up in my system, which I call my tax policy, just so happens to be on my wife. And it was a term conversion. And when I set the first policy up, where the original term came from that I converted, I had a plan in my mind. I didn't know what it was. The plan was very simple, is that I need to get a chunk of coverage on this amazing woman who I haven't proposed to yet. We were. But. But I. I felt good enough about our future that I thought I should lock it down with an insurance policy. You know, I was pretty. Pretty confident, Tom, right? And she's like, you want to do what now? I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna get an insurance policy. Don't worry about it. It's not a big deal.
• 39:16
  Speaker A: Where. Where are we going on our honeymoon? It's not near a cliff or anything, is it?
• 39:21
  Speaker B: What's that? The nurse is coming by to take blood? No. So. So. But I. And I didn't know when. I just knew that I needed to have some of that term coverage in place on. It was a small policy. Like, it was $235 a month, and. And a chunk of that, you know, 60 bucks a month or whatever was paying for the term insurance. So I. I said, this is what I can afford to do right now. It's all the means I have in this position. I need to get something in place. I had that rider. I didn't. I didn't even do some things I would have. If I could do it differently today. There was probably some things that would change, to be honest with you. But I knew that I would want to convert it at some future point in time. And lo and behold, it was. Wasn't ten years later, but it was. It was like eight years, maybe seven and a half. Eight years later. Finally, it's like, okay, it's time to get this done. So I was able to back data policy. We were, you know, we have a company here where we can kind of go 365 days back. So you can almost do, you know, premium one and premium two right away, which is great. So I was able to get a good chunk of capital in there. And this was going to be for my tax policy. So I have a certain amount of money that I have to pay the Canadian government, you know, Uncle Sam for You guys. And we used to say, uncle Trudeau, I guess that's cheap changed for us now. But you know, I got to pay them every year. They have no, no sense of humor about it. But now I can take the, the same money I'm setting aside with every income dollar towards that purpose. And I know that I'm, I'm going to capture it in a premium first. A combination of base premium and paid up additions premium. I'm going to capture it for my family before I send it away to the government. Now that tax dollar, the same dollar, is creating value into today and into the future for all of our future tomorrows, and it's creating a tax free dollar. So I use a dollar that's going to go to pay taxes to create a future tax free dollar. So the equivalent, the end result is when it's all said and done, I'm not going to get my, you know, quote unquote, get my taxes back, but I'm probably going to get an equivalent value or my, my family, the generations of our family will get an equivalent value that is probably greater or exceeds all the taxes I've paid in my life just through that one policy. Now that's a really powerful, powerful thing to do.
• 41:26
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, again, you know, what, what we, what Nelson has taught us and what we tried to teach people, you know, if you were paying cash at a cash flow for that tax obligation and just for our listeners, Uncle Sam really isn't our uncle. Okay. Um, but if we're, if we're paying cash, right, it, we're giving up opportunity costs for the, for those dollars. So you're right, it's, you know, $30,000 of income taxes for the year. Now when you're 40 years old and you can compound that, you know, through a cash value policy that maybe doubles every 10 or 15 years, you lost $90,000. You didn't lose 30,000. Right? And so to your point, what we, what we can accomplish with, with a simple mindset, it's not glorious. It's not, you know, the rockets red glare and all that in the background and stuff, like, it's very steady, Eddie. And you know, I kind of call it a boring whole life insurance policy, but what the impact that it has is, it starts small, like a snowball going down the hill. But when that, when that whole thing starts coming down, right? It's, it's, it's an unstoppable wave.
• 43:00
  Speaker B: The good thing is being from Jersey, you're northern enough to know what a snowball going Down a hill is like a lot of people listening to this might not, might not even get the connection. So I appreciate, appreciate that Tom. The, you're, you're, you're speaking Canadian now. When you go and do that instead of me trying, me trying to do it the other direction, you know, I'd love to hear from your perspective. This is an interesting thing and I, you know, you, we were talking kind of again him before hitting record that you've had to deal with unfortunately a number of claims, you know, recently in the last year or so. And that's hard, it's hard for the advisor, but no, nowhere near like it is for the family. That's going through an experience where someone's passed away, but being able to know that you're there to show up and show up with a check. You've been doing this longer than I have. So I'm sure it's, it's a duty of care you've had to, had to honor a number of times. Doesn't mean it's never a good situation. But at least knowing that you're able to show up in a time of need and bring something of value that was set up, you know, what is that like for you? And what's kind of the experience of just making sure that you know, people that you've been serving, you're able to continue that service on even when they may not be with us anymore?
• 44:11
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean it's, it's a, I mean it's a phenomenal feeling to know that after 10 or 20 or 30 year relationship with someone that passes away and when you get that phone call and, and the spouse says what am I going to do? And I can say you don't have to do anything. Everything is taken care of. You don't have to worry about your pension, you don't have to worry about your Social Security. You don't have to worry about you, you don't, you'll have income for the rest of your life no matter how long you live and security. You don't have to move, you don't have to sell anything. You, you know, you don't have to go out onto the corner with a tin cup. You, there's nothing you have to do except live your life and you know, if they're young enough, your kids can go through, still go to college, you can max out your pen, you know, your pension plan during your life. I mean, it's just, it's really, I'm not a very touchy feely kind of guy. But when you get home and, you know, and I. And I start running through my head all the different things that we've been able to do, you know, I. I'm blessed to be in this business, and I'm glad that I've been given the opportunity to help families, provide for families there. I mean, you always get more out of giving than. Than getting. Your smile is always bigger when you give someone that Christmas present, as opposed. Not that you're not grateful you got a Christmas present, but when you're, you know, no matter who you are, it. I don't know if I'm answering it well, but, yeah, I've had, you know, all these years that I've had to do. You know, I have had instances where I've had to do that claim. And no one's ever said, no, I don't want the check. No one's ever said, you know, no one's ever said, oh, my God, you know, why did we do this? Right?
• 46:40
  Speaker B: No one. No one's ever said, I wish it was smaller.
• 46:42
  Speaker A: Right? No, no one ever said that. I always. I always wish. And I said this to someone just yesterday. I was talking to somebody. I don't ever think anybody has enough life insurance because I believe that, like Nelson, that it's not that it's not just about me. It's. We have to. We're in a. We're in a time of this world where. And maybe it's a little biblical, we're supposed to leave the next generations better off than we were. And maybe, you know, our moms and dads or our grandmas and grandpas didn't have a lot to leave us, but they always tried to leave us something. And so, you know, when I. When I hear. And this is one of my pet peeves, and hopefully not too many people get mad at me saying this, but when I hear people say, well, I'm gonna. I want to spend every last time that I have. I put my kids through college, I fed them, I put a roof over the head. They don't need anything now. It's not true. Because now you're not thinking like Nelson taught us generationally, you know, it's our obligation as parents, as good stewards of this world that we need to leave it a little bit better than we found it or that we had it. That's our obligations just as human beings. And so I'm glad as a certified advisor, I'm glad as a financial advisor, wealth manager, whatever the buzzword is today, to, at some level, to be able to do that. I'm not looking to take care of all of mankind, but I, I am looking to take care of my small world. And to whatever extent I can do that, it's very gratifying. I wish I could do more, but I also know I have. You know, there's limits to what it, what one person can do. Hopefully that answers your question.
• 48:53
  Speaker B: Yeah, you did a great job. And, and you're right, there's limits to what one person can do. But you know, I, I realized it's interesting because I'm again, I'm thinking about Nelson and I'm like, you know, while there might be limits to what one person can do, the reason Nelson was able to do so much is because Nelson didn't do it alone. He did the hard work. He capitalized the, the life experience. Then he crystallized the life experience in a book which he didn't want to write and someone told him to do thanks shout out to Tim for forcing him to write a book. And, and then he gave that gift to everybody and he did that in a profitable way so that he could recover his investment in cost. And then, and then the result of that turning into delivering seminars and being hosted by advisors and then spreading that out. And so that word of mouth model really was impactful, going in depth over so many different people. And you mentioned the technology. You know, we don't, the technology has impacted our ability to spread word of mouth much more now because now it's, you're going to share the video, you're going to share the social media post. And so it, what it does is it just takes word of mouth concept and it just spreads it in a wider range. And then a receptive eyeball, receptive listener is now able to take that and then do it again. So that duplication effect, it's really an exponential impact of the traditional word of mouth model that the technology allows us to do today. And so I'm really, that's one of the reasons I'm excited about the next 20, 30 years. What will that even look like in the future?
• 50:24
  Speaker A: You know, it's that pebble in the pond that you said earlier. It's that ripple effect, right? I mean, it's probably uncountable. The lives that Nelson has touched. When you talk about not only starting with Nelson and Mary and then the family, then you go out to all the agents that he helped and then the clients of all those agents and then the family members of all those families that he helped on down the road, you know, and I'd like to think that you and I, as advisors to our clients, at some point in the future, we'll probably never see that future, but we'll probably have the same kind of impact on the same number of people to some degree. And that lights my fire. Right. I know that they might not be talking about me four generations from now, but when I have to meet my maker, you know, the convert, hopefully one of the conversations is. And being that time is limited, limitless, and I can see the future, which is the present, which is the past. Right. Depending on your belief systems and stuff like that, I can see all that good work that, that, that we're doing today. And for me, that, again, that's something that's super gratifying.
• 51:48
  Speaker B: Tom, I appreciate everything you're sharing with us here today. This is fantastic. And I love the amount of energy and effort that you're contributing and putting in and giving to the Nelson Ash community for everyone who's a member and a participant there, both from an advisor perspective and then by default, the clients that they serve. I'm super pumped about the new book. I can't wait to get my hands on a copy and for you to just, again, have that idea. I'm excited what new ideas you're going to come up with at the next think tank and hopefully share with me. Pull me aside and share it with me as well. But thanks for being with us on the show. I'd love to know. You talked a lot about the experience of helping people over 30 years and the impact and the generational impact that that's having and what you feel and you perceive. You know, my question for you, Tom, is who is it that you'd most like to be a hero to?
• 52:33
  Speaker A: My daughter, my nieces and nephews. You know, if my daughter ever has kids. You know, I don't know if I need to be a hero, but I want to be someone that they can respect and they can point at. Said he. He lived it the right way. You know, I'm a big New York Yankee fan, and the one thing that Mickey Mantle always said, you know, what I want on my tombstone was he was a great teammate. That's. That's all I want. I want. I want people to think that I was a great teammate. I don't have to be the hero. I don't have to be Mickey Mantle, but I do. I do hope that people see that. I've tried to play my part and I've tried to play it the right way. An imperfect, last perfect person. I know he was put up on a cross a couple thousand years ago, but, you know, I. I hope that people will at least appreciate the fact that I try.