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Shrek with Atsuko Okatsuka · The Bechdel Cast

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Speaker 1: On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
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Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
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Speaker 1: and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef
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Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the beck del Cast.
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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Backdel Cast. My name's Cheney, my name's Caitlin,
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Speaker 1: and this is becktel Cast, the podcast about how women
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Speaker 1: are represented in movies. But today it's an episode we've
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Speaker 1: been waiting for a very long time to do, and
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Speaker 1: I'm so excited and it's going to be the best
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Speaker 1: day ever. It's Shrek Scheck. It's Shrek, but you're excited
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Speaker 1: about Shrek the musical, not Shrek the movie. I don't
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Speaker 1: like Check the movie. I love. I love Shrek the Musical.
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Speaker 1: It's the best Broadway musical ever committed to Broadway. Broadway Luminaries.
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Speaker 1: Luminaries Sutton Foster as Princess Fiona, Brian Darcy James as
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Speaker 1: Shrek himself. Um, I don't know who any of the
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Speaker 1: those people are. Your God, I'm very excited for I
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Speaker 1: have a lot of things to say about Shrek. I'm
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Speaker 1: very excited for for today. So so this is our
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Speaker 1: podcast about the Betel Test. Though, Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
1:13
Speaker 1: If you don't know what that is, hey, i'll tell you.
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Speaker 1: Is it test you apply it to a movie or whatever.
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Speaker 1: It requires that there are two female characters with names
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Speaker 1: they talk to each other about anything other than a
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Speaker 1: man most movies. Spoiler, this movie does not do everyone
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Speaker 1: does not do very well at all in terms. But
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Speaker 1: the musical does better? Oh does it? Yes? Interesting? Shrek
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Speaker 1: the Musical is essentially just a way more dramatic version
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Speaker 1: of Shrek the movie. It's actually better because there's more
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Speaker 1: emotional depth. There's songs that sound like they could be
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Speaker 1: sung by Bon Jovi perhaps, but are instead being sung
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Speaker 1: by Shrek, which is like wild, it's crazy. Well, I'm
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Speaker 1: fascinated to see where this discussion goes. I'm so Excitedly,
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Speaker 1: I'm so excited. Let's introduced our guests before we get
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Speaker 1: much further. She's a comedian. She is the co founder
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Speaker 1: of Disoriented Comedy at scoot SKA. Welcome, Hi, Hi, thank
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Speaker 1: you for having me, Thank you so much for being here,
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Speaker 1: for pitching Trek. For some reason, it spoke to me.
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Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yeah, So what's your what's your personal history
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Speaker 1: of with Shrek? When did you first see the movie. Gosh,
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Speaker 1: I guess when when it first came out? Right, So one, two, one, yeah,
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Speaker 1: I guess. So it's crazy that Shrek has been in
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Speaker 1: our lives for this long sixteen years and honestly feels
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Speaker 1: like longer. I don't remember life before Shrek. There's part
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Speaker 1: two and it is, there are three, there's a three
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Speaker 1: and maybe all and a five in production. Gang and
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Speaker 1: Little did anyone in this room now a Broadway musical
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Speaker 1: that ran for four years. I knew about the musical.
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Speaker 1: I've seen like pictures of it, and just the aesthetic
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Speaker 1: of like Shrek and his makeup. I was like, oh,
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Speaker 1: I never want to see that. It's very scary. There's
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Speaker 1: a full taping of the Broadway production on Netflix. It's
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Speaker 1: been there for years. I'm pretty sure I'm the only
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Speaker 1: person who's ever watched it. But you can see Sutton
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Speaker 1: Foster really really humiliate herself and and she's in She's
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Speaker 1: in a show with Hilary Duff right now, so it's like,
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Speaker 1: you know, she's not afraid to do things that are
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Speaker 1: maybe a little embarrassing, but her playing Princess Fiona is
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Speaker 1: like man. And she got nominated for a Tony so
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Speaker 1: ups to Sutton Foster. Yeah, this was a This was
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Speaker 1: a very popular, successful musical in spite of the fact
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Speaker 1: that it was Shrek the musical and very scary to
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Speaker 1: look at. Well, Shrek the movie was enormously popular. Yes,
3:39
Speaker 1: but the people dress, but people dressed a Shrek should
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Speaker 1: not have worked out. No, it's and if you look
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Speaker 1: at it, you're like, there's no, this is very scary.
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Speaker 1: It's the makeup scary. It's it's just like, we'll put
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Speaker 1: this in just like the green I mean, he's got
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Speaker 1: like big baldest head and like it's little ears on it.
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Speaker 1: It's a lot, which is what you said is great
4:01
Speaker 1: because that is the theme of Shrek. Right, Oh wow, okay, yeah,
4:04
Speaker 1: so they do Shrek in the movie. Yeah, they do. Okay,
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Speaker 1: there's no there's no compromise. Arguably, maybe they're kind have
4:12
Speaker 1: been a little compromise, but I mean, I guess if
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Speaker 1: you're trying to get kids to go to it. But yeah,
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Speaker 1: and the whole point is, like, you know, it's not
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Speaker 1: what's on the outside, right, right, that's the of the story.
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Speaker 1: But with the cameras that close, and it's a it's
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Speaker 1: a Broadway musical, so you're not meant to be as
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Speaker 1: close as you can see them in the Netflix special,
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Speaker 1: because you can see just Brian Darcy James sweating through
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Speaker 1: his Shrek was given in a hundred time percent and
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Speaker 1: that's why he gets nominated for Tony's Yeah, because I'm
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Speaker 1: pretty sure Ogre's don't have pores, you know, and so
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Speaker 1: you can't for the realism of it. Yeah, the animated
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Speaker 1: Shrek seems very slick, right, Yeah, he's got hair, follicles,
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Speaker 1: he's got pores. Yeah. Well the Shrek, the Shrek of
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Speaker 1: the books is riddled with facial acne not And I'm
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Speaker 1: not shaming Shrek. I'm just saying I have a visual
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Speaker 1: of Shrek looking into wiping sweat off. Well, there's he's
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Speaker 1: got blackheads. He's got hair too. Yeah, yes, yes, I can.
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Speaker 1: I can relate. There's an opening scene, like the opening
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Speaker 1: credits in the movie. There's a like a whole montage
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Speaker 1: and Shrek is like getting a mud shower basically in
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Speaker 1: one of the shots, and you like turns around, you
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Speaker 1: see his nipples, you see his chest hair, he's got like,
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Speaker 1: oh he does have chest. I didn't remember that. I
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Speaker 1: just remember the mud blas. Yeah, I was looking for
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Speaker 1: the finer details. Human is he? Yeah, you know, he's
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Speaker 1: just like us. So you've just seen the first one? Yes,
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Speaker 1: I have only seen the first one. Yeah, I totally
5:39
Speaker 1: the second one he has kids or something. The third
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Speaker 1: one he has kids. The second one is about him
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Speaker 1: meeting Fiona's parents. I own Shrek two on DVD. Brag
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Speaker 1: you see. Aristotle and I were trying to figure out
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Speaker 1: the difference between three and four. I don't think I
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Speaker 1: went as far. I've seen the third one. I haven't
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Speaker 1: seen the fourth one. See, we've seen the four one,
6:00
Speaker 1: but neither of us. Have you even't seen the fourth one?
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I just made her will seem like more
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Speaker 1: of a freak than he actually is. I've seen one
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Speaker 1: to four in the musical a million times. I have
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Speaker 1: not seen three. So what's your personal experience? I saw
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Speaker 1: Shrek one in the theater the theater, the theater, not
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Speaker 1: the musical staj theater, just the movie theater. And but yeah,
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Speaker 1: I've seen Shrek probably a dozen times, quite a few times.
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Speaker 1: I've seen this movie a lot. What about you? Well,
6:33
Speaker 1: this is one of my first of all, I'm sorry
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Speaker 1: in advance, but this is one of the few chances
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Speaker 1: I have on the podcast to shine in terms of
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Speaker 1: having knowledge of a movie, because usually I'll say I
6:44
Speaker 1: watched it an hour ago, but this time I get
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Speaker 1: to say I have a grand history of the Shrek.
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Speaker 1: I did not see it in the theaters, but I
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Speaker 1: did see it. I've seen it many times. I got
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Speaker 1: very interested in the musical after being very afraid of
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Speaker 1: it when I watched it in college on Netflix. I
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Speaker 1: have since seen Shrek the Musical over ten times. I've
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Speaker 1: written quite a bit about it. I've sold my own
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Speaker 1: Shrek nudes on the Internet and raised three thousand dollars
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Speaker 1: for Planned Parenthood, and described for the listeners at home
7:17
Speaker 1: who may not be familiar with your Shrek nudes, what
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Speaker 1: exactly do you mean by that? When I say my
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Speaker 1: Shrek nudes, I mean I'm painted myself green and took
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Speaker 1: a bunch of nudes and then seldom on the world
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Speaker 1: Wide Web, even though that wasn't their original purpose. Um,
7:31
Speaker 1: therefore the next one. But I recycled them and uh
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Speaker 1: and and sold them for one of them many times
7:36
Speaker 1: the government was trying to defund Plan Parenthood. This is
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Speaker 1: about two years ago. It seems to happen every month
7:42
Speaker 1: so yeah, it was are one of those times. Unfortunately
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Speaker 1: we didn't say them with Shrek nudes, as I was
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Speaker 1: hoping we would. But I've seen Shrek the Musical over
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Speaker 1: ten times in three states, and I write about it
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Speaker 1: about once a year, and it is become an important
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Speaker 1: part of my life. And how similar is the musical
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Speaker 1: to the first movie? I would say that, I mean,
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Speaker 1: it's the same story, but the way it's told is
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Speaker 1: very different. You learned aiming, even on a bass level.
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Speaker 1: You learn way more about Shrek as a character, and
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Speaker 1: you get more about his background and the first scene
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Speaker 1: of the musical than you get in the entire movie.
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Speaker 1: So yeah, we don't get much Shrek backstory you're doing later.
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Speaker 1: But yeah, in the in the musical, the first scene
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Speaker 1: is Little Shrek, which is always fun to see in
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Speaker 1: the musical because you see a young usually a young
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Speaker 1: husky boy, dressed as Shrek and his parents are singing
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Speaker 1: to him about how ogres have to be very tough
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Speaker 1: and they're hated by society and you have to be
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Speaker 1: really tough. And then I kick him out of the
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Speaker 1: house when he's seven years old to go and brave
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Speaker 1: the world himself. So automatically, you're like, man, Shrek's had
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Speaker 1: a hard life, whereas the movie is just sort of
8:57
Speaker 1: like some funny ones and now and you don't find
9:01
Speaker 1: out anything smash Mouth got about that sounds true. It
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Speaker 1: does not age. Well, here's something fun in strict the musical,
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Speaker 1: it still ends with smash mouths and they take their bows.
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Speaker 1: It's great, like they just got the right smash Mouth
9:20
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, you can have that. Yeah, I mean
9:23
Speaker 1: smash Mother. I'm guessing they need to check sometimes here
9:28
Speaker 1: at like Ross Yeah, yeah, and that songs a cover anyways,
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Speaker 1: Like that song is not smash Moth song. It's like
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Speaker 1: some sixty All Stars. There's a star is a smash Mouth,
9:39
Speaker 1: the smash mouth a ridge. My favorite memorial tweet for
9:43
Speaker 1: nine eleven every year is the smash Mouth one where
9:46
Speaker 1: smash Mouth posts the same weird tweet every year of
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Speaker 1: like smash Mouth remembers nine eleven and it just has
9:53
Speaker 1: a visual of those words and then like the silhouette
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Speaker 1: of the twin. I was like, why you like what bizarre?
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Speaker 1: The most bizarro tribute to nine eleven you'll find every
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Speaker 1: single year for like as long as Twitter has existed. Okay, well,
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Speaker 1: they're smash smash mouth, smash mouth. Let's do the recap.
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Speaker 1: Let's do it. Shrek is about an ogre named Shrek.
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Speaker 1: He's stinky, he loves mud. He just wants to be
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Speaker 1: left alone, and he lives in It's like I don't know,
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Speaker 1: Middle Ages whatever, like European my swamp kingdom thing, and
10:37
Speaker 1: all these fairytale creatures get dumped on his swamp lawn
10:41
Speaker 1: and he's like, wait a minute. But before that, he
10:44
Speaker 1: meets Donkey, and Donkey is a talking donkey because Lord
10:49
Speaker 1: far Quad is trying to round up all the fairytale creatures,
10:53
Speaker 1: so he's like paying people to get rid of them
10:55
Speaker 1: because he wants his perfect white kingdom without any growth
11:00
Speaker 1: fairytale creatures. So all these people, all these fairytale creatures
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Speaker 1: end up on Shrek's thing, and he's like, I'm gonna
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Speaker 1: go talk to this Lord far Quad. Meanwhile, Lord far
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Speaker 1: Quad is trying to be a king. In order to
11:11
Speaker 1: do that, he has to marry a princess. But the
11:13
Speaker 1: funny thing is he's short. He's short, he's hilarious, he's short,
11:17
Speaker 1: and so therefore he's a little Napoleon, right. I wonder
11:20
Speaker 1: if that is like a poke at Disney for having
11:24
Speaker 1: like all like the short Daddies, well this whole movie
11:28
Speaker 1: at Disney to the point where it's like why does
11:31
Speaker 1: it exist? But we'll get there. But so Shrek's like, hey,
11:36
Speaker 1: far Quad, get your ship off my land, and he's like,
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Speaker 1: go rescue a princess for me so I can be
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Speaker 1: king and marry her. So Shrek goes and rescues Princess Fiona.
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Speaker 1: She's locked on the highest tower of the tallest room
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Speaker 1: of the whatever. Another person who's too good to be
11:52
Speaker 1: in this movie Cameron Diaz. I don't care much for
11:55
Speaker 1: Cameron Dia. I don't either, but she's still too good
11:58
Speaker 1: for this movie. She's got so hot critique. So he
12:08
Speaker 1: goes to rest he and Donkey, who are friends at
12:10
Speaker 1: this point, even though he's like, I don't like friends.
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Speaker 1: I don't have any friends. They go to rescue Princess
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Speaker 1: Fiona and she's like, wait a minute, you're an ogre gross.
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Speaker 1: I hate ogre's. I need to be rescued by my
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Speaker 1: true love so I can have true love's first kiss.
12:26
Speaker 1: And they're like, why is that so important to you?
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Speaker 1: And then we find out it's because a spell had
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Speaker 1: been cast on her and she turns into an ogre
12:34
Speaker 1: every night. But she and Shrek are like kind of
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Speaker 1: started to dig their vibing, vibing. They're lamping and they're vibing.
12:42
Speaker 1: They're lamping together and they're starting to kind of vibe
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Speaker 1: a little bit. So the Donkeys like hey, and Donkey
12:48
Speaker 1: discovers her secret. She keeps like best songs in the
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Speaker 1: musical song by Donkey, Yes, song by Donkey, when Shrek
12:57
Speaker 1: and Fiona are vibing, so Brian, Darcy, James and and
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Speaker 1: Foster like we're sharing squirrel meat or whatever they're eating.
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Speaker 1: And then Donkey sings this whole song called Mega Move
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Speaker 1: and it's a funky like but he's like, make a move.
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Speaker 1: And then he brings in the three blind mice and
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Speaker 1: they do a solo and they're like these hot but
13:20
Speaker 1: they're hot blind ladies. In this version, it's super fun.
13:24
Speaker 1: It's a blast top to bottom. You gotta love it
13:27
Speaker 1: all right. That's part of where the musical passes the
13:30
Speaker 1: Bectel test. The three blind mice talk to each other
13:32
Speaker 1: because they're all women, yeah I know, not all blind mice.
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Speaker 1: So Shrek and Fiona their vibe in but he overhears
13:45
Speaker 1: this conversation between Donkey and Fiona where she's revealing that, oh,
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Speaker 1: I'm an ugly ogre and I can't be this way
13:53
Speaker 1: and I have to marry Lord Farquad so I can
13:54
Speaker 1: be a beautiful, hot human lady the rest of my
13:57
Speaker 1: life to lift the curse as one does. And Shrek
14:00
Speaker 1: misinterprets this and things that she's talking about Shrek and
14:04
Speaker 1: being like, who would love an ugly beast like an ogre?
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Speaker 1: So he gets all piste off and he like sells
14:10
Speaker 1: her to Lord far Quad. Basically, this is where the
14:13
Speaker 1: act one break in the musical is, and it's that's
14:16
Speaker 1: the act one because that's that's like the end of
14:17
Speaker 1: the movie almost, I know, I know, well, I mean
14:21
Speaker 1: act one break is is more than halfway. But accidents
14:25
Speaker 1: in theaters, I was thinking three act structure like screenplays.
14:31
Speaker 1: I do have a master screen scream, so it makes
14:33
Speaker 1: sense that he would think that. Um no, but in
14:36
Speaker 1: terms of act one intermission act um so act one
14:39
Speaker 1: is usually longer. But um yeah, there's this beautiful three
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Speaker 1: part of harmony. I've performed it at many a karaoke
14:46
Speaker 1: with Shrek, Donkey and Fionna singing it's the song about
14:50
Speaker 1: who I'd be. Shrek is singing about how he wants
14:52
Speaker 1: to be a Viking. Donkey is thinking about how he
14:55
Speaker 1: fears he's going to be alone for the rest of
14:57
Speaker 1: his live Donkey if Toe saying about how her feminine
15:02
Speaker 1: illusions are falling apart. It's a It's a beautiful go
15:05
Speaker 1: see the musical. It's aid almost every junior high at
15:09
Speaker 1: this point. It's off Broadway every junior high. I saw
15:12
Speaker 1: it at Malibu Junior High last year, and it was bad.
15:16
Speaker 1: It sounds like an expensive production to pull off, especially
15:19
Speaker 1: for high school. Well that's yes, and there it's it's
15:23
Speaker 1: this huge puppet that has two songs. Yeah, so that's
15:28
Speaker 1: another place where it passes um. But anyways, so you
15:32
Speaker 1: can you you sort of have to drive out to
15:33
Speaker 1: wealthy I had to drive to Malibu because they can
15:36
Speaker 1: afford to put on Shrek Junior right, but worth the trip.
15:41
Speaker 1: Don't regret it. Glad to hear it. Yeah, So Fiona
15:45
Speaker 1: goes off and there she's about to marry Lord far Quad,
15:49
Speaker 1: and Donkeys like, Shrek, you fucking idiot. She likes you,
15:51
Speaker 1: and he's like what okay, and then he goes and
15:55
Speaker 1: storms the wedding and he's like, wait a minute, stop,
15:58
Speaker 1: I love you. And then they Shrek and Fianna kiss
16:02
Speaker 1: and she thinks it's lifting the spell. But because her
16:06
Speaker 1: true love is Shrek and she takes true love's form,
16:09
Speaker 1: she stays as an ogre and isn't a human anymore.
16:12
Speaker 1: And she's like, I thought I wouldn't be mutiful and
16:14
Speaker 1: he's like, you are mutiful, and then they get married
16:17
Speaker 1: in the end hashtag relationship goals, and it's suddenly the
16:22
Speaker 1: whole town is not scared of ogres anymore, right because
16:25
Speaker 1: of feminist icon trac. Yeah, they were like it's time. Yeah. Yeah,
16:32
Speaker 1: Well here's something that is bizarre. I mean, there's so
16:36
Speaker 1: there's this movie like Baseline totally pointless, shouldn't exist, but
16:41
Speaker 1: Lord Farquad's character is basically trying to like purify, you know,
16:47
Speaker 1: like Hitler style, trying to purify the kingdom by marginalizing
16:51
Speaker 1: anyone who is not human basically right and and created
16:56
Speaker 1: by humans. Yeah, you know, it's I mean, it's kind
16:59
Speaker 1: of it is kind of like gentrification or yeah, yeah,
17:04
Speaker 1: forcing that like humans who have power made these rules,
17:08
Speaker 1: human beings, made up fairy tales and then to suddenly
17:11
Speaker 1: be like, no, no longer, you get ready get out
17:15
Speaker 1: of here, which which yeah, these like imagination the Steak,
17:21
Speaker 1: we don't see that, which again I don't think totally. Yeah,
17:24
Speaker 1: So you go to the swamp where we fear another
17:27
Speaker 1: creature that we made up oker, you know, right, and
17:31
Speaker 1: that's where you will be forced to stay, which you know,
17:34
Speaker 1: there were no borders, so I don't know how that
17:35
Speaker 1: was going to work. They basically all say like, go
17:38
Speaker 1: to Shrek's house. Yeah, forced people out. They're like, oh,
17:41
Speaker 1: Shrek has a house, go there, and then everyone's which
17:45
Speaker 1: is another fun. All the Fairytale creatures have two numbers
17:48
Speaker 1: in the musical, one and I one one to let
17:50
Speaker 1: your freak Flag fly. Very inspiring. Okay, I guess I
17:55
Speaker 1: gotta watch THEA was nominated for a Tony Kate what
17:59
Speaker 1: I know. He could hit the high notes. He he
18:01
Speaker 1: was on the ones that do. He's great. Pinocchio. We've
18:09
Speaker 1: got next yeah, next, next spring season, We're gonna go.
18:12
Speaker 1: It'll be a trip. It's I'm busy that day. Listen.
18:16
Speaker 1: It's fun. It's a blast. So we're here to talk
18:20
Speaker 1: about mostly the movie, although feel free to I will
18:24
Speaker 1: continue to interject but thank you for. One of the
18:29
Speaker 1: things about the movie is that there's pretty much only
18:33
Speaker 1: one female character. You could argue that the dragon is female,
18:37
Speaker 1: but that dragon doesn't have any lines and it's a dragon.
18:41
Speaker 1: So there's essentially only one female character. Okay, in the movie,
18:47
Speaker 1: there's one, and she's Fiona. There's a few other one
18:50
Speaker 1: there's like you see some like fairy godmothers in like
18:52
Speaker 1: a witch and stuff like that, but they usually don't
18:53
Speaker 1: have lines, so there's really only primary right, So there's
18:57
Speaker 1: one primary female character, Fiona. Uh. Immediately, she's framed as
19:01
Speaker 1: like a damsel in distress, so she has to be saved,
19:05
Speaker 1: she has to be rescued, so the trope stands strong dance.
19:10
Speaker 1: They I mean, they subverted to an extent to the
19:14
Speaker 1: point where it might be uncomfortable for people, not to
19:17
Speaker 1: the point where she's the dominant one in the relationship.
19:21
Speaker 1: But this, I mean, this whole movie is based on like, oh,
19:24
Speaker 1: it's post modern fairy tales, which is grow up whatever,
19:30
Speaker 1: like dumb, but yeah, I don't know, right, I mean,
19:33
Speaker 1: this movie does a lot to sort of subvert the
19:36
Speaker 1: tropes of fairy tales, mostly in a very obnoxious, egregious
19:39
Speaker 1: way totally. But at the end of the day, the
19:41
Speaker 1: movie is still about like a woman needing to be
19:44
Speaker 1: saved by a man via being kissed by her one
19:47
Speaker 1: true love to break this enchantment. It's like one very
19:50
Speaker 1: heteronormative no surprise there, and too why Okay, So later
19:57
Speaker 1: in the movie we see a scene where Robin Hood
20:00
Speaker 1: comes and like tries to take her away and rescue
20:02
Speaker 1: her again, and then she beats the show out of
20:04
Speaker 1: him and all the merry men. If she's capable of that,
20:08
Speaker 1: why didn't she just save herself from being in the
20:12
Speaker 1: tower kick the Dragon's ask herself go to the witch's
20:16
Speaker 1: house who put the spell on her in the first place,
20:20
Speaker 1: and be like, fucking undo this, you ask whole Well,
20:23
Speaker 1: in theory, she was like beholden by the belief right
20:26
Speaker 1: that she had that this is what had to happen.
20:29
Speaker 1: But that's not well, it was never established. Well, maybe
20:33
Speaker 1: she thinks that she has to be rescued, but when
20:36
Speaker 1: she's describing the nature of the spell to Donkey, all
20:39
Speaker 1: she says is I need to kiss my one true love.
20:42
Speaker 1: So like, it's not clear why love she could have
20:48
Speaker 1: been active and not insanely fucking passive, got it right, Well,
20:53
Speaker 1: there's that problem with you. There is the problem that
20:58
Speaker 1: Shrek and Donkey and this entire movie don't respect women.
21:04
Speaker 1: Here are some examples, different comments that Shrek makes snow
21:08
Speaker 1: white ends up on his table and he's like dead
21:10
Speaker 1: broad off the table rack. It's the moment where they're
21:16
Speaker 1: entering the castle where the dragon lives. Donkeys like, so,
21:19
Speaker 1: where is this fire breathing pain in the neck anyway?
21:22
Speaker 1: And Shrek said inside waiting for us to rescue her
21:27
Speaker 1: feminist icon miss disappointing that quick one. Yeah, that's why
21:33
Speaker 1: I watched these movies eight thousand times and pick up
21:35
Speaker 1: all the stuff. Musical Shrek way less misogynical, were insecure,
21:39
Speaker 1: Oh that would be appropriate and a little bit jittering,
21:43
Speaker 1: and it's just like, yeah, to talk to girls. But
21:45
Speaker 1: in the movie, Shrek is constantly terrible, pushing her away,
21:49
Speaker 1: tossing her, throwing her, like a lot of physical violence.
21:54
Speaker 1: There's at least one point where he slams her down
21:56
Speaker 1: on the ground as like shut up. Yeah, it happens
21:59
Speaker 1: a lot in the movie. Oh Um, there's a moment
22:02
Speaker 1: when Donkey is telling Shrek to like wait till the
22:05
Speaker 1: right moment to crash the wedding basically, and he's like,
22:09
Speaker 1: chicks love that romantic crap. So just putting us all
22:12
Speaker 1: on a box, which is weird because he's been living
22:15
Speaker 1: alone for so long to know these even how he
22:19
Speaker 1: knows dating and chicks. And if he had been kicked
22:24
Speaker 1: out at seven as well, and I've been living in
22:27
Speaker 1: that and just been hanging out with mud and slugs
22:29
Speaker 1: and stuff, I don't know how he would know that, right, Yeah,
22:32
Speaker 1: that's true. Well I don't know. Maybe well, first of all,
22:35
Speaker 1: maybe seven in like older years is like maybe he's
22:40
Speaker 1: actually twenty five when he got kicked out. Sure, yeah,
22:43
Speaker 1: so his dad treated his mom right, But but that's
22:47
Speaker 1: not but that's not cannon to the movie. It's okay,
22:51
Speaker 1: yes I have. But in there I think I feel
22:55
Speaker 1: like in later Shrek movies, which I don't remember, is
22:58
Speaker 1: clearly that they address his background at some point. And
23:01
Speaker 1: maybe that's where the musical drew it from. Because the
23:03
Speaker 1: musical was released in oh eight. Maybe it was also
23:07
Speaker 1: all adapted from a book, or at least the first
23:09
Speaker 1: a wonderful book by William Steeg, who's a great New
23:13
Speaker 1: Yorker cartoonist. And I recommend the original, where Shrek is
23:17
Speaker 1: kind of just a villain who's forced to look at
23:21
Speaker 1: himself in a very existential way. Thus my favorite illustration
23:24
Speaker 1: from the book, which is Shrek the Illustrated Trek in
23:27
Speaker 1: a hall of mirrors looking back at a thousand tracks,
23:30
Speaker 1: and it's like, it's us, it's society. Interesting anyways, well
23:36
Speaker 1: back to the back to the bashing, to the beautiful
23:41
Speaker 1: source material with the dragon too, even though we we
23:45
Speaker 1: don't count her as a full speaking female role, when
23:50
Speaker 1: when she realized, like what stops her from being violent
23:53
Speaker 1: is like, I guess lust because she wants to donkey.
23:59
Speaker 1: Yeah she yeah, exactly, she sees something that she likes
24:02
Speaker 1: and and suddenly suddenly she has these long eyelashes that
24:05
Speaker 1: she's fluttering. And I'm going to stop my one dimensional
24:09
Speaker 1: character ways, which is I just breathe fire and stop
24:13
Speaker 1: people unless I fall in love with a with a
24:17
Speaker 1: donkey dude. And she does. Yeah, that's interesting. And you
24:21
Speaker 1: could sort of make the same argument for Cameron Diaz
24:23
Speaker 1: for Princess Fiona of like, you know, it's not until
24:26
Speaker 1: they meet a male love interest that they're like suddenly
24:30
Speaker 1: these dimensions are released or like empowered and somehow, like
24:35
Speaker 1: in theory, I feel like we're led to believe if
24:37
Speaker 1: Shrek and Doggy didn't show up, Fiona and the Dragon
24:41
Speaker 1: would not have changed on their own. Oh totally not.
24:44
Speaker 1: Like Fiona is like the only thing about her character,
24:49
Speaker 1: especially at the beginning, is that I need to find
24:52
Speaker 1: my true love or my true love needs to rescue me.
24:54
Speaker 1: It's like incredibly one dimensional. In the musical, Okay, Fiona
25:00
Speaker 1: is locked up in a tower by her parents on
25:04
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve, and her parents are holding her hostage because
25:09
Speaker 1: they're telling her that until her husband shows up that
25:14
Speaker 1: they were not going to release her. I think, actually
25:17
Speaker 1: you learned something to that effect in Shrek two. Well
25:20
Speaker 1: then there you go. So beautiful, beautiful song called um
25:24
Speaker 1: I Know It's Today, sung by three different Fiona's young Fiona,
25:28
Speaker 1: teenage Fiona, and of course Sutton Foster, who makes quite
25:32
Speaker 1: the entrance in that song. Um anyways, nominated for a
25:35
Speaker 1: Tony snubbed for someone who probably did a better job
25:38
Speaker 1: doing something else. Back to the Dragon, though, Uh, the
25:44
Speaker 1: point I wanted to make about that is that it
25:46
Speaker 1: drives me nuts in a movie or TV show or whatever,
25:50
Speaker 1: that there is a character who you don't really know
25:53
Speaker 1: what the gender is at first, and then the reveal
25:56
Speaker 1: is it's a girl, Like oh, that cop that takes
26:00
Speaker 1: off its helmet and gets off a motorcycle that was
26:03
Speaker 1: actually a woman, because it's like, how fucking stupid is it? That?
26:08
Speaker 1: Like being a woman is somehow like a bonkers reveal? Right, right,
26:13
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be like more impressive or or the
26:16
Speaker 1: flaws make more sense that yeah, or just like the
26:21
Speaker 1: thing that where I I mean, I get why they
26:23
Speaker 1: do it, I get what they're doing when that happens.
26:25
Speaker 1: It's like this thing that you're socialized to believe is
26:27
Speaker 1: usually a man actually a girl. Surprised, but it's just
26:33
Speaker 1: like annoying that that has to be a reveal like that.
26:36
Speaker 1: There are isn't just like representation of women in roles
26:40
Speaker 1: like that where we would just be like, oh, sure
26:43
Speaker 1: that's a girl because we see that as a woman
26:45
Speaker 1: all the time. Well, and and another bit character that
26:50
Speaker 1: is deeply problematic that appears more in later movies and
26:54
Speaker 1: appears in the musical, to the point where future incarnations
26:58
Speaker 1: of the musical scrubbed this lyric kept in one production
27:01
Speaker 1: I saw in Massachusetts, which was like get rid of it.
27:03
Speaker 1: But anyways, I spoke with the director of the Whole Thing,
27:08
Speaker 1: but the Big bad Wolf in the movie, there's a
27:11
Speaker 1: lot of transphobic jokes at me that character's expense. And
27:15
Speaker 1: even in the musical there's a song like something something
27:18
Speaker 1: something dressed they called me a hot and tranny mess
27:22
Speaker 1: and what was the right and which was in the
27:25
Speaker 1: original musical anno it, but then they took it out
27:27
Speaker 1: because they were just like, Oh, that's fucking nightmare. That's terrible.
27:31
Speaker 1: You can't say that. Um and and that's like kind
27:34
Speaker 1: of what this movie boils down to from a feminist
27:37
Speaker 1: perspective of It's like it's sort of like, oh, the
27:41
Speaker 1: female it's a badass, but just never in a way
27:44
Speaker 1: that is actually threatening or challenging to patriarchal standards. Like
27:50
Speaker 1: she's allowed to kicking her favorite mixed me needs article.
27:54
Speaker 1: She kicks and she gets to fight a little bit,
27:57
Speaker 1: but never in a way that super affects the plot,
28:00
Speaker 1: never in a way that that challenges the heteronormative fairy
28:04
Speaker 1: tale standards of she has to end up with a guy,
28:08
Speaker 1: whether it's the tiny misogynist or the larger misogynist, and
28:15
Speaker 1: that seems like I said, feel it feels so unearned
28:18
Speaker 1: when she's like kicking Robin Hood's ass, because it's like, well,
28:22
Speaker 1: if you could do that, and if you had the
28:24
Speaker 1: agency to do that, why didn't you have the agency
28:26
Speaker 1: to choose your own destiny and like go after what
28:29
Speaker 1: you actually wanted. If marrying a dude is what you want, fine,
28:34
Speaker 1: but like then go out and get it. Like it
28:37
Speaker 1: just it was insane to me that she was so
28:39
Speaker 1: passive and just like literally waiting around to be rescued,
28:42
Speaker 1: because I think I think maybe the writers were focused
28:45
Speaker 1: more on undoing fairy tales in general, but not necessarily
28:49
Speaker 1: doing it in a refreshing way. They're like, fairy tales
28:52
Speaker 1: are still about the damsel and distress, but for them
28:56
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, you know what we're gonna do
28:58
Speaker 1: is just constantly remind do that you're watching a fairy
29:01
Speaker 1: tale getting undone. But we're not quite there yet with
29:05
Speaker 1: being ready to have the female character be the lead
29:10
Speaker 1: or the one that can choose her own adventure, and
29:13
Speaker 1: we're not quite ready for those. Yeah, I think it
29:16
Speaker 1: wasn't ready to like maybe Tangled or Fave or you know,
29:22
Speaker 1: yeah it had to be Moana or yeah, I haven't
29:25
Speaker 1: seen those three films that I just named. Moah, No,
29:30
Speaker 1: I gotta see Moana. I did watch Tangled. I feel like,
29:33
Speaker 1: was she more independent? I don't even I think, But
29:36
Speaker 1: still the guy was a little bit too involved. Okay,
29:38
Speaker 1: okay had to show up. Yeah I remember her being
29:41
Speaker 1: like snippier than regular princesses. But yeah, I think they
29:45
Speaker 1: were still focused on, like people are used to still
29:48
Speaker 1: the idea of like the fairy tale. Let's just make
29:50
Speaker 1: fun of the idea of fairy tale, but it's still patriarchal,
29:54
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Absolutely. I mean I think
29:57
Speaker 1: that this whole movie is built on and so much
30:00
Speaker 1: of like so much of Shrek, And this goes into
30:03
Speaker 1: this whole thing that I think about a lot because
30:06
Speaker 1: I don't have a life. Um is like, how basically
30:10
Speaker 1: dream Works was this company that was formed to spite Disney,
30:14
Speaker 1: who do these fairy tale stories constantly, and so Shrek
30:18
Speaker 1: was just essentially meant to be a big middle finger
30:20
Speaker 1: from Jeffrey Katzenberg, who produced some really famous Disney like
30:24
Speaker 1: Renaissance movies. UM as a big middle finger to be like,
30:29
Speaker 1: oh look, I did all this great work and then
30:31
Speaker 1: you fucking fire me or whatever. The falling out was
30:34
Speaker 1: there and now I have DreamWorks and now we're just
30:36
Speaker 1: because I fulk you to Disney all the time, and
30:39
Speaker 1: doesn't really take the time to do that in a
30:41
Speaker 1: very thoughtful or interesting way, because even when like Princess
30:44
Speaker 1: Fiona is doing the kick thing and in theory like
30:48
Speaker 1: total just on paper that sounds very cool, but really
30:52
Speaker 1: all that does is earn her respect in the eyes
30:56
Speaker 1: of the men she's traveling with. Other than that, there's
30:59
Speaker 1: not a bit effect on the plot because up until
31:02
Speaker 1: the point, Shrek was like just mostly found her as
31:05
Speaker 1: a nuisance, and then when you see from the ground,
31:08
Speaker 1: he just does that. Even after that happens, but he
31:11
Speaker 1: finds her a total nuisance. And then as soon as
31:13
Speaker 1: he witnesses that whole like fight scene, he's like, well,
31:16
Speaker 1: I'm not going to beat her up anymore. So he
31:21
Speaker 1: does not throw her on the ground. In the musical
31:23
Speaker 1: thank You Very Much Good, I think that that's probably
31:25
Speaker 1: just a sudden, faster thing. She's like, I will not
31:27
Speaker 1: be thrown I'm I'm the Queen of Broadway. I will
31:31
Speaker 1: not be thrown on the ground. I mean, I think
31:33
Speaker 1: this movie, although it does not handle this that well,
31:37
Speaker 1: and I'll explain why in a moment. But the moral
31:39
Speaker 1: of the story, is we already mentioned, is that like,
31:42
Speaker 1: you should judge people based on their character, and you
31:46
Speaker 1: should get to know people before you judge them, and
31:48
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what you look like, and your important
31:50
Speaker 1: thing is the content of your character. However, one of
31:54
Speaker 1: the reasons they don't really reinforce that in the story
31:57
Speaker 1: is that it's like pretty heavily can firmed that. Like
32:01
Speaker 1: Fiona when she is an ogre, they're like, yeah, you're
32:04
Speaker 1: definitely ugly. She's like, I'm ugly, and Donkey's like, yep,
32:07
Speaker 1: you're You're for sure ugly. And the thing is though,
32:10
Speaker 1: that like she basically looks exactly like she does as
32:13
Speaker 1: a human, except she's green and she's heavier, So they're
32:16
Speaker 1: basically equating being fat to being ugly, which is incredibly problematic.
32:21
Speaker 1: And then on top of that, they do they do
32:23
Speaker 1: that with Trek's character as well. Yeah they do. Yeah,
32:28
Speaker 1: any otherness is not accepted by farads right, and the
32:34
Speaker 1: movie is trying to say, like, no, you can still
32:36
Speaker 1: be ugly and you're you're still you can still be likable,
32:40
Speaker 1: But they're not. I mean, in the end, there's that
32:44
Speaker 1: line where she's like, I thought I was going to
32:46
Speaker 1: be beautiful and trucks like you are beautiful, But it's
32:48
Speaker 1: still sort of like, I think implied that only Shrek
32:52
Speaker 1: could find her beautiful because he's also an ogre, and
32:56
Speaker 1: like she's still not because she doesn't adhere to like
33:00
Speaker 1: western beauty standards were as the whole you are so beautiful,
33:03
Speaker 1: but only to me, because that, to me is what
33:07
Speaker 1: makes it like whoa, why can't you just end it
33:10
Speaker 1: at you are so beautiful? You know? Right? Well? And
33:14
Speaker 1: then what do we think of the ending of sort
33:16
Speaker 1: of it's it's implied, especially in the back half of
33:19
Speaker 1: the movie whence Donkey finds out that Fiona's night form
33:24
Speaker 1: is as an ogre, where he's like, well, Shreks and Ogre,
33:28
Speaker 1: you should hang out with him, where it's like, I
33:30
Speaker 1: don't know, like and this has been on and I
33:33
Speaker 1: don't think originally, you know, it was like eight or
33:35
Speaker 1: nine in this movie, I didn't have the language to articulated.
33:38
Speaker 1: I was like, well, are we to believe? You know?
33:41
Speaker 1: By the end, when Fiona turns out that loves true
33:44
Speaker 1: form for her as she's an ogre if she had
33:48
Speaker 1: been a human with that have not been okay, Like
33:50
Speaker 1: can only like and like belong together in this universe
33:54
Speaker 1: and what does that mean? And like is that that
33:57
Speaker 1: never has sat well with me? Like that just seems
34:00
Speaker 1: like a weird backwards thing to I feel like, um,
34:04
Speaker 1: gay and lesbian people experienced this a lot, where like, like,
34:07
Speaker 1: you're gay, I have a gay friend. You should meet
34:09
Speaker 1: my gay friend. And it's like, well, well if I
34:11
Speaker 1: don't like that, there, yeah they're there. Yeah, there's like
34:14
Speaker 1: a pretty good chance you wouldn't want to date him.
34:16
Speaker 1: But people are just like, oh, because you're both gay,
34:18
Speaker 1: you should hang out, and it's like no, so yeah,
34:22
Speaker 1: runding me of that that happens to people of color
34:25
Speaker 1: to where it's like, oh, you would love my black
34:27
Speaker 1: guy friend. You know he's single to another black girl.
34:31
Speaker 1: You know, oh really quick to like going back to
34:35
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's not what's on the exterior, it's
34:39
Speaker 1: what's on the interior. If that was the case, to like,
34:43
Speaker 1: Shrek in actuality is not very likable, Like he's an asshole.
34:47
Speaker 1: Neither is Fiona. Yeah not either, And so I'm you know,
34:51
Speaker 1: I'm confused about that being the message initially because it's
34:54
Speaker 1: like if I've you know, Shrek, I've known people like Shrek,
34:59
Speaker 1: that's like, no me alone, I'm a grumpy person because
35:01
Speaker 1: like people don't understand me, and so in turn there
35:04
Speaker 1: an asshole. They let tragedy turn them into an asshole,
35:07
Speaker 1: and uh, they are hard to get along with. So
35:10
Speaker 1: I don't know, tell me what I have to hang
35:12
Speaker 1: on to if I'm supposed to fall in love And
35:15
Speaker 1: that's I mean, I think maybe that in terms of
35:17
Speaker 1: the way that masculinity has portrayed a lot in pop culture,
35:21
Speaker 1: that that is sort of a common thing to do.
35:23
Speaker 1: I like, well, he's an asshole because he just doesn't
35:25
Speaker 1: know how to express himself. So you have to accept
35:28
Speaker 1: the fact that he's an asshole to you, usually a
35:31
Speaker 1: female character, because he just doesn't know. He just doesn't know,
35:35
Speaker 1: and you just have to deal with it. And then
35:36
Speaker 1: you got to soften him up, you gotta fix it.
35:40
Speaker 1: Inshol to people who never let sour things turn them
35:43
Speaker 1: sour and are nice. Right, that's an insult to people
35:46
Speaker 1: who are actually nice, even if maybe on the exterior,
35:49
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what I mean, Like right, like,
35:52
Speaker 1: I think it's it's cutting you know, and no matter
35:55
Speaker 1: you know. Obviously that's not to discount any character or
35:58
Speaker 1: person's experience, but you can't always cut someone that much
36:02
Speaker 1: slack of like, you can't just be an asshole to
36:04
Speaker 1: everybody because you're like so insecure in your masculinity you
36:08
Speaker 1: can't express yourself, you know, or like you had a
36:10
Speaker 1: difficult childhood and that's all valid, and that's all character stuff.
36:15
Speaker 1: But don't be surprised if people don't like you because
36:18
Speaker 1: of it. Right, there should be a consequences for being
36:20
Speaker 1: an ass always, even like Donkey, there's a scene where
36:24
Speaker 1: after they've like gone on the whole journey and Fiona
36:27
Speaker 1: is hanging out with far Quad Donkeys all like, oh,
36:31
Speaker 1: you treat me badly and you undermine me and Doto
36:34
Speaker 1: and all this stuff, and shreks like why are you
36:37
Speaker 1: still hanging around then, which is a legitimate question because
36:40
Speaker 1: like Donkey, why are you letting this person emotionally abuse you?
36:44
Speaker 1: And Donkey's like, because that's what friends are for. They
36:46
Speaker 1: forgive each other, which like feels like a wrong message
36:49
Speaker 1: to send to people. It's like, if someone's like being
36:52
Speaker 1: abusive torn you maybe don't forgive them. If that's if
36:56
Speaker 1: it's their character to be a complete fucking asshole. I
37:00
Speaker 1: would argue the more powerful, the most powerful relationship in
37:03
Speaker 1: this movie is Shrek and Donkey and in the musical.
37:07
Speaker 1: But it's like Shrek and Donkey have more songs together
37:10
Speaker 1: the Shrek and Fiona do with the musical. Dude, but whatever,
37:13
Speaker 1: I mean. But but there is more emphasis placed on
37:17
Speaker 1: I guess Shrek and Fiona's relationship is more integral to
37:20
Speaker 1: the plot, but in terms of characterization, it's way more
37:24
Speaker 1: Shrek and Donkey, if like they have you know these
37:28
Speaker 1: Originally Shrek rejects him and he's like, no, I'm fun,
37:32
Speaker 1: It's okay, you can come, and then they have a
37:35
Speaker 1: falling out, and then they have a reunion, and then
37:38
Speaker 1: it's like there's just more in general. So I don't know.
37:43
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought of that until I watched it this
37:45
Speaker 1: last time, watching specifically for how female characters are treated.
37:50
Speaker 1: And granted, you know, Shrek and Fiona have a falling out,
37:53
Speaker 1: but it's based on a misunderstanding and then he sells her,
37:57
Speaker 1: only to return and marry her without her ever saying wait,
38:01
Speaker 1: you sold me because you got mad and you didn't
38:03
Speaker 1: even ask me what I did, Like that should be
38:06
Speaker 1: a problem, right of like you overheard something and then
38:10
Speaker 1: you sold me to a hitler, Like what are you doing?
38:13
Speaker 1: You know? But she's like, no, you're right. The son's
38:16
Speaker 1: about to set let's marry right, right, Like, let's make
38:20
Speaker 1: out he didn't remember the Donkey Donkey actually apologizing to
38:25
Speaker 1: He goes like, because friends forgive each other, and then yeah,
38:29
Speaker 1: and then Shrek says he forgives Donkey, but like, I
38:32
Speaker 1: don't really know what Donkey did wrong besides just getting
38:35
Speaker 1: close with Fiona. I don't know. I think it was
38:37
Speaker 1: because Donkey didn't tell Shrek because he promised Fiona he
38:41
Speaker 1: wouldn't tell. Oh, it's part of the misunderstanding. He Shrek
38:45
Speaker 1: was all like, oh, they're buddy, buddy, and they're ganging
38:47
Speaker 1: up on me, and but like that's not what was happening.
38:50
Speaker 1: So if Donkey did apologize, he didn't need to to
38:56
Speaker 1: this point of like, which goes back to the point
38:58
Speaker 1: of like, that's a weird that is the weird message
39:00
Speaker 1: to give. Let's if kids are watching this and going like, oh,
39:03
Speaker 1: that's how it should be a friend. If they wronged me,
39:06
Speaker 1: I apologize and I should forgive anyway, even if I
39:09
Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong, I don't know. I don't know
39:11
Speaker 1: what the demographic is of this film. I mean it's
39:14
Speaker 1: more it's pretty wide. Well it's kids and adults. Like
39:17
Speaker 1: there was enough like adult humor that adults can appreciate
39:20
Speaker 1: it if you're the lowest common denominator, yeah, small penis
39:25
Speaker 1: jokes and stuff, right, yeah, I mean like that's and
39:28
Speaker 1: this is another like DreamWorks movie thing where there's what
39:31
Speaker 1: happens in DreamWorks movies, but this is like the first
39:33
Speaker 1: very successful one where this movie is like pushing post
39:37
Speaker 1: modern drugs to the point where, for the most part,
39:41
Speaker 1: this movie, in theory is for kids. You can bring
39:43
Speaker 1: your kids to see it because most of the drugs
39:45
Speaker 1: will fly over their head. But to the point where
39:46
Speaker 1: it's like do these kids even know what is being
39:50
Speaker 1: riffed on? Like do they know the source material of
39:53
Speaker 1: these four billion fairy tales? And do they know? And
39:56
Speaker 1: you know, so it is made more for stupid adults
40:00
Speaker 1: who don't have a sorry, people who love his movie
40:03
Speaker 1: but like you know, don't have a developed enough brain
40:07
Speaker 1: to laugh at anything other than like I heard that,
40:09
Speaker 1: I've heard of that. I've heard it because that's oh
40:13
Speaker 1: my god a song. It's funny because the ogre thing
40:17
Speaker 1: of the song, like there's just so little thought put
40:20
Speaker 1: into any joke. It's infuriating. It's and then another note
40:25
Speaker 1: on the comedy is that like Shrek is always cracking drunks,
40:29
Speaker 1: they're not that funny, but at least he's like making jokes.
40:32
Speaker 1: Man Donkey is by and large like the comic relief
40:36
Speaker 1: of the movie. Even far Quad gets some like funny moments.
40:39
Speaker 1: Fiona like, she doesn't get any funny a lot. I
40:42
Speaker 1: feel like none of the comedy in the movie is
40:44
Speaker 1: given to her, Like she's never given an opportunity to
40:46
Speaker 1: make people laugh except for maybe the one the nod
40:50
Speaker 1: to like the matrix thing where she's like which is
40:53
Speaker 1: another but like, yeah, there's just she doesn't get any well.
41:03
Speaker 1: Her character sucks. She's like a brat, she's entitled, she's passive.
41:10
Speaker 1: This movie does a little bit more than other movies
41:12
Speaker 1: in terms of like showing why the two characters might
41:15
Speaker 1: like each other, but it's all very superficial stuff where
41:17
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, they both burp and they both like
41:21
Speaker 1: to and again that's her earning his respect by being
41:24
Speaker 1: more like him. Right, being more like a man is.
41:29
Speaker 1: She's like, let me take this snake and turn it
41:31
Speaker 1: into a trick called dick balloon Fionta. So yeah, I
41:40
Speaker 1: don't like her character in any way, and the attempts
41:45
Speaker 1: at the movie does make it like because so often
41:47
Speaker 1: you see in a movie where it's like a man
41:50
Speaker 1: is a lead and he has a love interest, and
41:52
Speaker 1: you're never really sure why they'd be interested in each
41:54
Speaker 1: other because the female characters usually so poorly developed that
41:57
Speaker 1: it makes no sense why they would end up together.
41:59
Speaker 1: But like, she's hot, so he likes her, and that's
42:02
Speaker 1: good enough. I think the movie does a little bit
42:05
Speaker 1: tiny more than most movies to develop that romantic relationship,
42:08
Speaker 1: but it's still not enough, so I think, and I
42:13
Speaker 1: think it is interesting just a quick acknowledgement of how
42:17
Speaker 1: Shrek has aged into now where largely except with children
42:24
Speaker 1: and adults who saw it when they were stupid and
42:26
Speaker 1: have not gotten smarter or more critically thinking since two
42:30
Speaker 1: thousand and one, which God help those people. But there's
42:34
Speaker 1: been this huge subculture that's developed if people making fun
42:37
Speaker 1: of Shrek for how derivative and lame, and you know,
42:42
Speaker 1: just a movie that really takes pleasure on feeling very
42:44
Speaker 1: cutting edge while accomplishing nothing, you know, And there's this
42:49
Speaker 1: whole subculture for it online and some of them at
42:52
Speaker 1: this point it's pretty much extinct, and that's good. But
42:54
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm sure some of our listeners would
42:57
Speaker 1: recognize the Shrek is Love, Shrek is Life video those
43:00
Speaker 1: and like all these I'll show them to you. They're
43:02
Speaker 1: gonna I don't know about these, Dang, they're going to
43:05
Speaker 1: bloil your mind. There was this there's this PC game
43:09
Speaker 1: that came out around the time Shrek the movie did,
43:11
Speaker 1: and people found it maybe ten to twelve years after
43:15
Speaker 1: the movie came out, and started making these very bizarre
43:17
Speaker 1: sketches using the Shrek characters, um that were very like
43:21
Speaker 1: hyper sexual and demonized Trek and condemned the character. And
43:27
Speaker 1: and sometimes they're very funny. Sometimes they were too dark
43:30
Speaker 1: and like don't want those ones. Um. There's also a
43:33
Speaker 1: subculture for Jimmy Neutron as well. But anyways, all that
43:36
Speaker 1: to say, Shrek, I would argue, is not a movie
43:39
Speaker 1: that has aged well and anyway and kind of in
43:41
Speaker 1: a in a in a pop culture way, hasn't been
43:44
Speaker 1: as accepted down in the line. I mean Shrek five
43:47
Speaker 1: is going to make a million dollars, but it's not
43:48
Speaker 1: going to have as many only a million dollars. That's
43:51
Speaker 1: terrible for me. Sorry, billion, a billion, trillion. It's gonna
43:54
Speaker 1: make ten times with boss baby mate or that you
43:59
Speaker 1: much in are the EMI movie probably feminist icon the
44:05
Speaker 1: EMGI um but um. But you know, all I have
44:10
Speaker 1: to say, like Shrek five will and this is not
44:13
Speaker 1: saying a lot, but probably be more conscientious of its
44:16
Speaker 1: audience than I would Shrek that came out two months
44:20
Speaker 1: before nine eleven, you know, like it really was just like, yeah,
44:24
Speaker 1: what was subversive in two thousand and one is deeply problematic. Now, yeah, right,
44:31
Speaker 1: I'll show you Shrek his live Shrek is Life. I'm
44:33
Speaker 1: excited to see that. Yeah. Does anyone have any other
44:36
Speaker 1: final thoughts about the movie? I don't think so. I'm
44:38
Speaker 1: gonna watch two, three, four, and five. I guess the
44:42
Speaker 1: musical musical because besides them having kids and him meeting
44:48
Speaker 1: her parents and maybe finding about his his parents, I
44:51
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe it'll be cool to see like the
44:54
Speaker 1: fifth one be like his daughter, Shrek Woke, Shrek Girl,
44:59
Speaker 1: Shrek Girl, Shrek All Female reboot of Shrek yeah, something
45:04
Speaker 1: you're Shrek falls in love with Fiona non or like
45:09
Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't fallinary just trying to get a job
45:12
Speaker 1: and it's hard. Yeah. Yeah, a female Shrek tries to
45:17
Speaker 1: negotiate a salary is the salary. But also also I
45:25
Speaker 1: did one more thing to throw in for Shrek three,
45:27
Speaker 1: the only Shrek movie I have not seen. It turns
45:29
Speaker 1: out that came out in No. Seven and already the
45:32
Speaker 1: Shrek culture was so such a joke that Tim and
45:36
Speaker 1: Eric were the first people to jump on promoting Shrek
45:39
Speaker 1: three as a great It's been a joke for well
45:42
Speaker 1: over ten years now. Um, and I would recommend watching
45:46
Speaker 1: the Tim and Eric Shrek three promovid this one because
45:49
Speaker 1: they were issued a cease and desist. That's amazing. Let
45:55
Speaker 1: us discuss whether or not the movie passes the Buchtel test. Sure, no,
46:01
Speaker 1: not sorry, there were there even on any opportunities when
46:06
Speaker 1: were two women in the same scene. I mean in
46:08
Speaker 1: the beginning, when all the fairytale creatures are in Shreks swamp,
46:14
Speaker 1: there are like a few fairy godmothers. Uh, there's no
46:19
Speaker 1: white but she is unconscious. Oh that's the other thing
46:21
Speaker 1: I wanted to say. End at the wedding. Oh yeah,
46:25
Speaker 1: at the end. So you see her in the beginning
46:27
Speaker 1: in like the like glass casket thing, sleeping unconscious, so
46:31
Speaker 1: she can't talk um. In the end though, she and
46:35
Speaker 1: Cinderella flap each other whenever Fiona is trying to throw okay, yeah,
46:40
Speaker 1: perpetuating that like do they talk or do they just
46:43
Speaker 1: they do not speak each other because they want the
46:47
Speaker 1: book so bad, because because that means they want to
46:49
Speaker 1: they'll getting married next god damn it. And then first
46:56
Speaker 1: of all, I want to know that, well someone, she's
46:59
Speaker 1: probably kissing her consensually. You cannot have consent when you're
47:05
Speaker 1: in a coma. That's what we need. A gro shop.
47:07
Speaker 1: We've all seen kill Bill. Yeah, no, you will get
47:12
Speaker 1: what she she attacks with her mouse Aristotle. Snow White
47:16
Speaker 1: comes back in later Shrek movies. Right, she comes back
47:18
Speaker 1: in Shrek three. I don't know, she's in the trailer
47:23
Speaker 1: for three, so she keeps coming. I mean that she's
47:27
Speaker 1: not represented better and and granted, with snow White, you're
47:31
Speaker 1: presented with an uphill battle for a moment one sure,
47:35
Speaker 1: especially whenever Lord Farquad finds like the magic mirror on
47:38
Speaker 1: the wall and he's like, how do I become a king,
47:40
Speaker 1: and he's like, you got to marry one of these princesses.
47:42
Speaker 1: So he does this whole like Bachelor at number one,
47:45
Speaker 1: something like Cinderella is a mentally abused shut in whose
47:48
Speaker 1: hobbies are cooking and cleaning for her two evil sisters.
47:51
Speaker 1: First of all, probably not have hobbies. Yeah, at least
47:54
Speaker 1: say sudn't believe it. I don't know. But then like
47:56
Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's like shaming her for it,
47:58
Speaker 1: like she's on her fault that she used abused. But
48:01
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, she's not a viable cannon because she's
48:04
Speaker 1: been abused by men. And then they talk about snow white.
48:08
Speaker 1: The joke is, even though she loves with seven other men,
48:10
Speaker 1: she's not easy. And then just kiss her dad frozen
48:13
Speaker 1: lips and find out what a live wire she is.
48:16
Speaker 1: Or don't kiss a sleeping, unconscious woman. Don't ever do that. Yeah,
48:21
Speaker 1: and then it's sort of presented or this is was
48:24
Speaker 1: my read of the scene that far Quad is pressured
48:28
Speaker 1: by the people, you know, his like thugs or whatever
48:30
Speaker 1: around him to choose Fiona because she's the least damaged
48:34
Speaker 1: sounding of the three. But then the mirror is like,
48:37
Speaker 1: but also, wait, I should tell you that thing that
48:40
Speaker 1: at that point coming up in forty five minutes, you know.
48:43
Speaker 1: And and so he chooses her because she sounds like
48:46
Speaker 1: the least bogged down by her circumstances that are not
48:51
Speaker 1: her fault. But that's not even true, you know, I
48:54
Speaker 1: hate it. Oh. The other thing I wanted to point
48:56
Speaker 1: out is that Shrek rescues Fiona a night passes. The
49:00
Speaker 1: next day, like they got off to a rocky start,
49:03
Speaker 1: he keeps throwing her on the ground. It The next
49:08
Speaker 1: day she kills a bird with her voice and then
49:12
Speaker 1: steals the bird. She steals the eggs and like cooks them.
49:18
Speaker 1: And her way of like making a nice gesture to
49:21
Speaker 1: be like, hey, let's make amends is to cook them
49:23
Speaker 1: food he cooks for her later. True, like the weed
49:29
Speaker 1: rat weed rats. Right, So I let that go on
49:32
Speaker 1: the basis that he reciprocated it. Okay, that's fair. But
49:35
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, she's doing good domestic chore, right,
49:39
Speaker 1: and maybe in you know, she probably conditioned to think
49:41
Speaker 1: that's what you should do, right, right. I wondered where
49:44
Speaker 1: she would cook in that that space she was in
49:46
Speaker 1: for so long. Yeah, did she have access to a kitchen. Well,
49:50
Speaker 1: in the musical, she says she had a hot plate. Okay, good,
49:55
Speaker 1: I mean I worry about these things in a chamber poto.
50:00
Speaker 1: Oh no, no she yeah, she says I had no toilet.
50:02
Speaker 1: That was a lot. Well, it sounds like the musical
50:05
Speaker 1: I answered a lot of questions I have about you
50:07
Speaker 1: gotta watch it. Uh so. Yeah, the movie does not
50:10
Speaker 1: pass the back to test. Doesn't even come close. There
50:12
Speaker 1: are never in the same scene at any point. Let's
50:18
Speaker 1: write the movie on her nipple scale zero five nipples
50:21
Speaker 1: based on its portrayal of women. I'm going to give
50:23
Speaker 1: it like a one like. It does not do well
50:27
Speaker 1: for me. Between her only ambition is to fall in
50:31
Speaker 1: love with a man and be rescued by him. Doesn't
50:36
Speaker 1: matter even who it is. She's just like, I just
50:38
Speaker 1: need a man to save me and kiss me. That's
50:40
Speaker 1: really her only ambition pretty much throughout, and eventually you know,
50:44
Speaker 1: she finds someone who she might like, even though like
50:47
Speaker 1: are they compatible? I don't know. That remains her whole
50:50
Speaker 1: goal throughout the movie. And Shrek is a misogynst piece
50:54
Speaker 1: of ship. Donkey isn't much better the treatment and women
50:57
Speaker 1: is just bad. Yeah, it's no there's no getting around it.
51:01
Speaker 1: So one nipple it belongs to donkey weird because I
51:09
Speaker 1: like to give animal. Okay, I'm gonna red like Jalen
51:14
Speaker 1: like another one on his chest. I wonder how many
51:17
Speaker 1: nipples donkeys have? Do they have stay tuned for donkeys?
51:23
Speaker 1: I don't even know how that works. Is it for Trude?
51:27
Speaker 1: More if you're a certain donkey right to teeths on
51:33
Speaker 1: Google and she didn't say two nipples, one donkey teeth
51:39
Speaker 1: kitalin here panda nipple on the donkey, I'm gonna have
51:44
Speaker 1: to say I give it a one too, because even
51:48
Speaker 1: though it's the old tale of you know, the princess
51:51
Speaker 1: needs to get married and that's her one thought, it's
51:54
Speaker 1: also motivated by her looks. Because if I do it
52:00
Speaker 1: that I don't, I don't have to be an ogre
52:01
Speaker 1: anymore at night. So it's just like an extra one
52:04
Speaker 1: to punch into into my nipples. And that one nipple
52:08
Speaker 1: I will put on. I guess far quad is that
52:12
Speaker 1: you see his nipple in the movie he's like sitting
52:15
Speaker 1: in bed topless, remember that. Yeah, it's when he's like reh,
52:20
Speaker 1: he's probably jerking off because it's when he's looking at
52:22
Speaker 1: the magic mirror on the wall and he's like, show
52:24
Speaker 1: me again, and it like rewinds, just like a picture
52:27
Speaker 1: of her, and he's like in his bed, not wearing
52:30
Speaker 1: a shirt, jerking too. Yeah, um, remember that character you see?
52:37
Speaker 1: And I think, no, the mirror, the mirror. I think
52:40
Speaker 1: the mirror is in snow white. And I saw that
52:43
Speaker 1: too because I was like, shouldn't it be a female character?
52:45
Speaker 1: But but I tried to go that's why he was.
52:49
Speaker 1: He was saying those things about the princesses. Something I
52:52
Speaker 1: could have subverted but chose not to, chose not to
52:56
Speaker 1: or It's not like they're like, hey, should we subvert
52:58
Speaker 1: this or not. They probably didn't even think of it.
53:00
Speaker 1: They're probably just like, well, well, my friends a guy,
53:02
Speaker 1: I would like to give him a job. I'm gonna
53:04
Speaker 1: put the nipple on them there actually right, So, speaking
53:09
Speaker 1: as a as as a woman who has been sexually
53:12
Speaker 1: rejected by a far quad and a local production at
53:17
Speaker 1: the musical, I'd like to give this movie one nipple
53:21
Speaker 1: in terms of its female portrayal and in terms of
53:24
Speaker 1: how it's uh far quads respond to twenty two year
53:28
Speaker 1: old women sexually interested in them. Uh No, But I mean,
53:31
Speaker 1: it's just there's no there's no getting around it. There's
53:34
Speaker 1: no really redeeming female character. So it's even worse than
53:38
Speaker 1: most movies we encounter where you know, a popular summer
53:41
Speaker 1: movie usually includes one female character who might be great
53:44
Speaker 1: and have has agency, but there's no one for her
53:46
Speaker 1: to talk to. Not only is there no one for
53:48
Speaker 1: Fiona to talk to, but her character is completely half
53:52
Speaker 1: baked as well. Uh that said, watch Shrek the Musical. Uh,
53:57
Speaker 1: there's a really there's literally a lot of amazing work done.
54:00
Speaker 1: I encourage you to foster Shrek feminism of your own,
54:02
Speaker 1: reclaim what Shrek has denied you. Yes, indeed, yes, um,
54:07
Speaker 1: and I will give I will give my nipple to
54:12
Speaker 1: Sutton Foster as Princess Fiona and Shrek the Musical. Sure. Yeah,
54:17
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. Thank you, thank
54:20
Speaker 1: you so much for having me. Certainly, where can people
54:22
Speaker 1: follow you online? You can find me at Otsco Comedy,
54:26
Speaker 1: on Instagram, Twitter, I'm on all the all the platforms.
54:30
Speaker 1: On the platforms, just it'll pop up. If you start
54:34
Speaker 1: typing my very Japanese, um, just a T s U
54:38
Speaker 1: k O, it'll pop up. She's very searchical. You can
54:42
Speaker 1: follow us on all the platforms well, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,
54:47
Speaker 1: and go to our website back toolcast dot com. For
54:49
Speaker 1: sure you can find upcoming live shows, including our one
54:54
Speaker 1: year anniversary live show at the Nerds show Room at
54:58
Speaker 1: Meltdown Comics. How did you get that? Oh? I don't know.
55:02
Speaker 1: Maybe program director of that venue and Dante. Maybe she
55:07
Speaker 1: put that show up where I don't know. Uh So
55:10
Speaker 1: check that out. It's on December two at seven pm.
55:15
Speaker 1: Details forthcoming specially guest special movie will for Billina be there.
55:21
Speaker 1: I haven't talked about Alfred Millina all day. God, okay, well,
55:24
Speaker 1: Alfred Millina, I don't care what he was doing at
55:26
Speaker 1: this time. He was like, I'm too, I don't I
55:28
Speaker 1: don't funk with DreamWorks. I think that's what Alfred Mallina
55:31
Speaker 1: would say, for sure, just putting words in his dignified
55:34
Speaker 1: talented mountain. Also watch Rat Teens on the Cafe streaming
55:39
Speaker 1: platform is my new cartoon about teenage rats. It's wonderful,
55:43
Speaker 1: Thank you and um Happily ever After.