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Richard Doty | Project Beta Deception · Ryder Lee

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Would that be correct? And seeing that most of the
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: counterintelligence stuff when it comes to propaganda really revolves around
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: the Internet.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Probably today. I left counter intelligence a long time ago,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: but we didn't have the Internet back then. But I
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: would imagine today there's a lot of that going on
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: through the Internet through sources within TikTok. The way they
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: would do it is recruit people that work for different
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Internet providers or even YouTube channels, and then tap into
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: that particular YouTube channel or TikTok channel and perform some
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: type of counter intelligence operation. Back by the day, as
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: it was called deception operations, you didn't you didn't see
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: anything written about disinformation UH the the UH. If you
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: were going to UH operate a kind of intelligence operation,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: it would be through deception uh and and similar to
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: what we did with with Paul Benowitz, although that really
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: wasn't much of a task with us because Paul was
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: already a believer in UFOs, so we didn't have to
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: go through any great lengths to make him believe what
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: he was seeing were UFOs and not as the secret
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: operation that he actually tapped into. So he lived Paul
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: lived in in what they call the area called Four Hills.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: UH and west eastern Albuquerque. That the Four Hills uh
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Housing complex was right up against the base perimeter of
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Kirkland Air Force Base. In fact, Paul's house. If he
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: went out his back yard and walked up the defence
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: his fence, there was a buffer zone of about maybe
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: one hundred hundred feet and then the base defence was there,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: so Paul could look right into see Manzano. And so
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Paul told Colonel Edwards that he was receiving strange signals
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: from there, and also he was filming strange objects flying
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: next to military aircrafts. When that was reported to Colonel Edwards,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: he immediately contacted me. I was a counter intelligence officer
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: for the base, and he said, hey, Rick, I got
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: some guy here is providing information to me that you
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: need to hear. So immediately went to Colonel Edward's office.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: He gave me all the information on Paul, and then
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I made contact with Paul. That was early in nineteen
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: eighty and that's when the operation began. Paul didn't come
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: out and speak with the Air Force personnel until some
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: time later.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Were you kind of tasked by your superiors to give
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: this dessumption to Paul Benowitz or was this something just
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: like on your own accord, like just reinforcing his own
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: preconceived thoughts and ideas he already.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Had no in within the US intelligence community. You didn't,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: you know, you didn't walk across the street and get
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: a drink of water without an operations plan. When my
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: first objective was to gather all the information that Paul
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I had, I didn't. I didn't say or or try
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: to trick Paul in anything until I gathered all the
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: information that he was trying that he gave to Colonel Edwards.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: And so I went out and met with Paul a
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: couple of times to get everything that he'd had and
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: that he was reporting. I never provided anything to Paul
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: until maybe the third or fourth time I went back
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: out there. But when I come back came back to
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the office, I wrote up my report and and and
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: or reports and sent them up to our headquarters. And
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: then they set me down a proposed operational plan of
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: what what I need to do. And that's I followed
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: the plan. I did exactly what they told me to do,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: and that's that's how I started interfacing with Paul.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Did you know that what he was captioning was advanced
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: military technology that was being tested around Kirkland Air Force Base,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: and that he was getting transmissions from the base before
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: you went to figure out what he had was that
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: already was that already the thought in the idea behind
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: the Air Force at that time, but that he had
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: footage or he was recording signals from the military base.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Well, what Paul was doing was he was photographing these
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: objects flying around military planes and what he was actually
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: photographing was a highly classified experimental military drone program. They
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: were testing different drones back in those days. And the
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: one way that the drones were tested was the military
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: aircraft would fly a certain flight pattern and release those
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: drones from directly from the aircraft. And because the aircraft,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: the controllers inside that aircraft had to control those drones,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: they flew those drones flew in close proximity to these
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Air Force aircrafts. Well, Paul was photographing that thinking those
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: things were UFOs And when he told us and showed us,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: showed me the film, there were other agents of my
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: name is came up, Jerry Miller's, Steve Ats and some others. Uh.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: But uh so we gathered all that information and gave
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: it you know, set it up. And then that's when
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: the Air Force says, you're gonna have to convince him
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: that those things are something else. And since Paul was
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: a believer in UFOs, he was a muphone investigator, he's
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: been one for a number of years. He was actually
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: involved with Nightcap prior to MUPON and so he was
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: a believer, and he told us those things are UFOs,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: those things are alien aircrafts. So it didn't it wasn't
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: difficult for me to convince him. All I had to
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: say was, Okay, I believe you, Paul. They probably are.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: That's it easy, easy job. Now. The other thing he
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: was doing was on the base, we.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: Had a an NSA facility that had a two laser systems,
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: and what they these lasers were doing were shooting a
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: laser up in the sky every time a Soviet aircraft
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: would pass over and point that laser into the glens
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: of that passing Soviet satellite and blinding the satellite.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: We had several of them in the United States, and
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Paul was had tapped into those signals using to control
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: that laser. That's how an Essay got involved in it
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: a National Security miss agency and so that's what we
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: did during the investigation. Now, there were a lot of
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: other parts of the Paul Benowitz case, but that was
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: the primary and it was directed and driven by the
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Defense Intelligence Agency, and they dictated what we were to
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: do and how we were to do it.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: When did you figure out, I guess you personally, or
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: maybe the Air Force. Maybe the Air Force already knew
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: that the NSAY was involved with Paul benn Which was
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: this further down the road or earlier when you were
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: in contact with him.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: I had no idea they were. One night, I was
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: at Paul's house with another agent and we were looking
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: We were up in the Paul's upper patio. It was
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: a rainy night, so we were inside upstairs and we're
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: looking across the street. And as I looked across the
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: street at this house drugly across the street from him,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: I saw a little red light in the window and
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I thought, Hey, Paul, who lives over there? I think
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: they got a camera on pointing over here. And Paul says,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: nobody lives over there. That's a vacant house. I thought, Wow,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: that's odd. So we watched it for a while and
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: I thought, with somebody's photograph in this house. So we went. Now,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: we were federal agents and we carried guns, and so
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: we went down. But I called the Albuquerque Police Department
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: and I had contacts there, and I asked for a
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: couple officers come out. We walked across the street just
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: as these two men were coming down the steps and
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: getting to going to a car. Albuquerque police stopped and
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: ask them what they were doing. They said, well, they're
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: renting this place. And then I stepped in. I said,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: you're renting this place? He said yeah. I said were
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: you guys? Where are you guys out of He said, well, no, no,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: your business, you know. I kind of so, I, you know,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: identified myself and myself and Steve AT's at the other
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: agent with me, and that pretty much shurned the algu
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Please turned that over to us, and they said, well
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: we're here. We were out of Colorado Springs. I said,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: what are you doing down here? Why? Why are you
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: filming that house across the street. He said, well, I
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: can't tell you that it's classified. So but they did
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: identify themselves finally as an SA agent's. So the next
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: day or a day after, I immediately went out to
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: the NSA facility and met I had contacts out there
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: and met with one of their supervisors and I said,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: why the hell are you guys involved with an investigation
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: that we're doing. And he said, well, I can't tell
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: you that. I have to get you know, you have
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: to get clearances and so forth. So like a day
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: or two later he called me up and said, you
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: can come out and and we'll brief you on it.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: And then he briefed us on what they were doing,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: and they were concerned about the signals that Paul was
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: getting from the laser systems. I knew the laser system
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: was out there. I mean I knew everything because I
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: was a count of Telligence officer. I knew everything that
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: was on the base, but I didn't actually know every
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: aspects of those things. So then I said, okay, so
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: that's why you guys are investigating. But they went beyond,
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: way beyond that. They actually planted listening devices and other
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: bugs inside Paul's home without telling us, and we would
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: find them. We had technical people that would come out
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: in sweep Paul's house all the time because we also
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: had an espionage investigation going against one of Paul's employees.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Paul owned the Thunder Scientific laboratories right outside Kirtland. He
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: was making parts for a Miniman missiles, warheads and and
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: US Navy submarines. And so we we've got information on
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: a on on somebody that might be providing data to
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: the Chinese. That was turned over to the FBI eventually,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: But we would go out, our technical specialists would go
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: out and sweep Paul's house for signals all the time,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: and they found these NSA bugs, which number one, were
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: not legal. We had a contract with Paul, a written
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: contract the Air Force had with Paul Minnewitz because Paul
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: wanted this thing investigated, and so Paul agreed to the
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: contract and everything that we did was in that contract.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Paul allowed us to go into his home anytime we
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: wanted to or needed to. We could collect data from
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: his home. He knew what type of bugs we placed
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: in his home. We knew. He knew that his phone
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: was being monitored, and he had two different phone systems
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: or numbers, different phone numbers, and we had both of
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: those bugs. He knew that. That's why at the end
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: of this investigation, people always ask me, well, why didn't
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Paul sue you guys, Because we had a contract with him.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Everything was written down and we did everything according to
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: that contract. So Paul, you know, agreed to it because
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: he wanted to know exactly what these aliens were doing
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: and he thought that we were collecting all that data.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: So they didn't have one with him, so they surreptitiously
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: entered us home to place these bugs, you know, one
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: in the computer and he had another one, a couple
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: other ones. So we found him and we took him out,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: and we took him back and gave him to NSA
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: and said, next time you do something, you need a
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: warrant or a permission.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: What did Paul think about these bugs that were that
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: you guys were finding That wasn't your guys's bugs. What
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: did he say about that?
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Well, this is one of the mistakes I think I made.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: If i'd do it over again, I wouldn't do it
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: this way I did. We didn't tell Paul initially we
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: found these bugs. And number one the reason, one of
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: the reasons why our supervisor told us not to tell
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Paul was we didn't know who's who placed these in
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: there at that time. We thought they might be Soviets, Russian, Chinese,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: So our technical security specialists got the bugs and they
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: analyzed them. And when they analyzed them and found out
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: that they were NSA bugs, we didn't tell Paul initially
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: that they were NSA bugs, but we took him back
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: to NSA at some point later on. We did tell Paul,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: but not initially. And I think if I hadn't do
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: it all over again, I would immediately tell Paul. But
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: but that's that's a mistake I made in that investigation
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I did. We didn't initially when we found him tell
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Paul that