Latest / The Electrical Show / Thomas Nagy and Paul Meenan look at solar again with Mark Kerr from Joju Solar

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Thomas Nagy and Paul Meenan look at solar again with Mark Kerr from Joju Solar · The Electrical Show

• 0:00
  The Electrical Show with Thomas Naji. Welcome to The Electrical Show. I'm your
• 0:08
  host, Thomas Naji, and with me, as always is Paul Mean and
• 0:12
  Hello, good sir, here living the dream indeed beautiful. A few weeks
• 0:16
  ago we talked about SOLO and PV as a specialism. Now on today's show,
• 0:22
  we're going to take a look at this particularism and we're going to talk
• 0:25
  to an electrician that has essentially embraced solar and PV and they've dedicated their professional
• 0:31
  life to it. So it's going to be an interesting conversation and we're going
• 0:34
  to touch on some DC coupling, battery storage, and a couple of other
• 0:38
  bits and pieces. I believe at the end of our at the start of
• 0:42
  our shows, we're given a crib sheet, and at the very end we've
• 0:45
  got one here and there's basically nothing written on it. I think our producer
• 0:48
  ran out of times. He's just put ao b any other business and we're
• 0:52
  going to be talking, well, I'm going to be talking about some of
• 0:55
  the inconvenient truths that I think this I don't know. We're in a time
• 1:00
  where it's all there's a lot of greenwashing going on and we things are made
• 1:03
  and produced to maybe look more efficient and better than it actually is. How
• 1:11
  dare you question the message? Yes? Sorry, that's terrible of me.
• 1:15
  Fix radio. Time to crack on. I'm Thomas Nargie with Paul Mean and
• 1:21
  on the Electrical Show. And joining us now is Mark Kerner. He's the
• 1:23
  head electrician at Joe Ju's Solar and he's going to discuss specializing in solar and
• 1:30
  battery storage. Now. Mark, thank you for coming on the show.
• 1:33
  We do appreciate it. Now, you were the Bowl Accounts. You were
• 1:36
  the first person to install and own the first DC couple Tesla battery storage system.
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  How did that come about? Yeah? Absolutely good question. So I
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  was sort of an advanced service partner for a company called solar Edge, and
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  because of my experience with solar Edge and Solo Edge being sort of involved with
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  the sweach gear that was built to sort of meet their sort of DN or
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  gaidelines at that time under this agety three compliance, it was quite an easy
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  selection process for me to be chosen because I had solar Edge on my home
• 2:19
  as well as a PD system, and because it was one of three in
• 2:23
  the UK at the time. It was an advanced service part of Forslar Edge
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  to sort of work with them on this sort of beta testing just sort of
• 2:31
  tweak things. Then, Yeah, it was sort of an easy and easy
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  process sort of selecting me part of that journey, which was which was a
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  nice opportunity for me at the time. And what about joe Jo Solar Because
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  you work you work for them, what is your role actually involved there as
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  such? I guess I started started at Georgia or nearly six years ago now,
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  and at the time, you know, I was the first electration on
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  board at Georgia. Historically the sort of subcontracted all them years ago. The
• 3:02
  role was to commend put installations in the ground and developed the electrical installation team.
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  And that's sort of been my role the last sex years, so belding
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  on that installation team, sort of harvesting them, sort of growing them,
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  educating them, training them, bringing them sort of on and making them sort
• 3:24
  of fas of all where they are now and sort of my role now is
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  sort of looking after a team and looking after broadly other individuals at Georgia's sort
• 3:35
  of bringing the quality, making them more aware of regulations and compliance etc.
• 3:40
  Cool. So, Mark, what are some of the most challenging aspects of
• 3:44
  the work that you take on and oversea, I would see some of the
• 3:46
  most challenging aspects of what I do. I think it's probably built around engineering,
• 3:55
  which is products and regulations, trying to sort keep abreast of changes,
• 4:01
  which is which is an ongoing thing at the minute. You know, engineer
• 4:06
  is trying to keep up the regulations and regulations trying to keep up the engineering,
• 4:10
  and I think that's sort of probably one of the most challenging things in
• 4:13
  the industry at the moment. It's definitely difficult to keep people interested when you've
• 4:18
  got guidance notes literally updating every two years on technical subject matter and products changing.
• 4:26
  You're having to commit, especially to do the specialist stuff, even more
• 4:29
  time in training and development and learning to keep the pencil sharp for want of
• 4:33
  a better term. But I find it fascinating that you've done because I talk
• 4:38
  to people about DC coupled systems. I've done a battery storage training and PV
• 4:43
  and all the rest of it, and you get so many blank faces when
• 4:45
  you mention it. But it is genuinely I think one of the most effective
• 4:48
  and efficient ways of harnessing all the technologies that we're using in the most efficient
• 4:54
  manner. What what's your thoughts on that? Yeah, I to agree,
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  I would absolutely agree that. Yeah, you know, there's obviously there's an
• 5:01
  efficiency loss when you transfer that DC energy to EC for the inventor and then
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  you know, and then sort of back through the same process again when you're
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  taking it back out of the battery, I have to go back through the
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  inverted for a second time. So yeah, you could be losing you know,
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  minimum ten percent questions say they are, and I think when you're when
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  you're scaling art you know, globally, at ten percent, that's quite a
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  big number. Indeed, I think the future of DC technology in general is
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  quite technically challenging, but a very exciting learning journey for a lot of people
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  to go on. So it's going to be an interesting next ten, fifteen,
• 5:38
  twenty years in our industry. But The Electrical Show with Thomas Naji on
• 5:43
  fixed radio the Builders Station, you're listening to the Electrical Show with Boss Professional.
• 5:48
  I'm Thomas Naji with Paul Mean in here and we're talking to Mark Kerner.
• 5:53
  He's the head electrician at Joe Ju's Solar and we're going to be talking
• 5:57
  about his experience working in working with battery storage and generally sustainable tech. Now,
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  Mark, why did you decide to embrace this technology? Why why specialize
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  in this particularly sort I've had a passion for the industry for years, and
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  I sort of got into building management systems probably and the nineties, I would
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  say, and you know, working alongside companies like Honeywell and Seamen Landis and
• 6:30
  Stephia and the Lakes, and I guess that you know, like seeing how
• 6:38
  effecient we could mix them and harvesting the energies, sort of recycling the sort
• 6:45
  of air. And I think that's sort of something that was really interested in
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  the early doors, sort of working with them building management systems. And I
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  guess when I started to see solar farms popping up, I was so interested
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  in renewables that point from working with all these heat recovery systems, et cetera
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  and trying to make buildings more refreshion of the use of energy. So it
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  was a nice root for me to take and the industry because all my skills
• 7:13
  were transferable and to renewable energy. And I sort of went and worked for
• 7:17
  a builder for a few months to learn about roofs and salt of TV mountain
• 7:24
  systems, and before actually getting into the sort of the electrical system, so
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  I was learning about this, you know, the buildings and and how to
• 7:33
  actually beld roofs. So I sort of went down that route first. Well,
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  you've you've really sort of engrossed yourself in this sort of sustainable tech.
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  Have you found any sort of shortcomings like that you've encountered along the way with
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  this sort of technology? Is anything that's sort of fallen short? Yeah,
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  I mean, I guess the the technology itself, there's probably not enough done
• 8:00
  in the industry around you know, like products when they are I guess at
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  the end of their life cycle. So I guess there's probably quite a lot
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  of with there, which I think is a sham. And that will probably
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  be anything from the adverts to the solar panels and probably some of the swetch
• 8:20
  gear as well. There's Yeah, you know, I don't I don't think
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  there's enough being done around the products when at the end of their life very
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  scary. That is a scary thing because life cycle is an asset management term.
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  Now trying to teach that to the domestic homeowner. Missus jones By the
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  way your solar panels of a fifteen year lifespan and you can probably extend it
• 8:43
  if you service and maintain it. They won't, and then we wonder why
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  there's lots of solar fires or your inverter has a twenty year design life.
• 8:52
  But if you you know, don't overload stuff or you oversize it, you
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  know there's decisions you can take and make with optimizing extending life of an asset,
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  whether it being inverted solar panels, whatever. But where is that education
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  for the johnny consumers and the installers so that they can make selection decisions to
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  maybe possibly oversize an invert, or have a little bit more battery capacity,
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  or do different things to try and extend the life of these assets to give
• 9:20
  better value. It's not a mindset a lot of people have. So it's
• 9:24
  lovely to hear you talk about it. Mark, that's actually a really good
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  point because when you think about it, like a solar system, if they
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  even if it's been sized that the inverter is just running at full capacity or
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  like with eight of its capacity, it is just going to burn out quicker.
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  It's just going to reach its life cycle faster, yep. Whereas if
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  you have a larger invert that runs that reduced duty, you can extend the
• 9:46
  life of the invert because it won't be under such stresses. But there's a
• 9:48
  little bit of additional cost. And it's that balance and understanding how to balance
• 9:52
  it as well. What's your take on that. Yeah, it's interesting because
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  you know, over the years, I don't think the guidance has been amazing,
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  and the industry, I think the guidance has been pretty poor in terms
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  of like you know, like who's been selling solar TV to the sort of
• 10:11
  end user And I think I've always found that interest and that it's been very
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  sales and the industry and not driven technically, and I think that's maybe where
• 10:24
  the industry has been let down, and it's infancy. Like back in two
• 10:28
  ten, two eleven when it was the big boom time where the big feed
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  and tariffs and you know, people were just getting sold anything. I remember
• 10:35
  a company in hours and they were just trying to grab any in better and
• 10:39
  any solar panels they could at that time because it was really difficult getting the
• 10:45
  products because of the feeding tariffs and because of these big rushes to beat the
• 10:50
  deadlines before the government would then slash it or you know, eventually then they
• 10:56
  got read in the end. But yeah, that that's made for interesting times,
• 10:58
  I feel. Moving on now, So there's there's potentially a lot of
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  waste coming from these beginnings, from those beginning installs. Actually, yeah,
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  because I remember when we used to fit them back in whenever that was two
• 11:11
  thousand and ten to two thousand and twelve, when it was sort of the
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  gold rush doing it. And I remember some of the companies, i mean
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  the inverters and stuff they were they were like wanting to get fitted. I
• 11:20
  mean, you just they were absolute junk. I mean, I just remember
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  it, and I was like, this is not gonna last. They just
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  and I actually don't know. I'm guessing most of them have probably been taken
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  out now because they failed. Yeah, yeah, that's probably the likelihood.
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  Yeah, I mean, even branded inverters, you know, like I'll not
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  name names, even branded inverters. You know, they they might have got
• 11:43
  maybe the five year maximum on it that they guarantee would go and then they
• 11:48
  would find break down. But you know, there's there's brands out there that
• 11:52
  are not recognized and you know, they fall out and there's no way of
• 11:56
  getting unreplaced. And sometimes I think individuals who maybe botton to renewable energy,
• 12:03
  they probably didn't even have the the insurance policies in place YEP to build them
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  out financially when when these things did fault out. Yeah, I've I've asked
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  manufacturers inverters for evidence of you know, disconnection of PV strings and stuff like
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  that while there's you know, potential for is a potential for disconnecting the string
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  while under load, because that can happen with incompetent and unqualified people. And
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  I've had many an argument of a manufacturer over can you prove the technical compliance
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  of your inverters? And they look at you like you've asked some very difficult
• 12:35
  questions. And I've had plenty of I've had plenty of arguments with manufacturers over
• 12:41
  well DC isolate, as AC isolate, as DC searge protection, AC surge
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  protection, and they all say, well, it's you know, in rush
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  protection is built in, but in rush protection isn't protection against transient over volt,
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  which is there's two setate things. And they try and when you start
• 12:56
  challenging them, they get quite shirky, and then they also, oh,
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  yeah, we've got of anyic isolation or an isolation transformer built in. You're
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  like, there's no such thing as an isolation transformer. Think about what a
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  transformer is. It's not an isolation. They just I have some solar systems
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  on my railway and I've had many fun than games with many a supplier over
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  their technical compliance. And to be honest of you, I think a lot
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  of it is junk. Being honest, yeah, absolutely, And so I
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  was just going to to that a little bit because I've had some experience recently
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  with manufacturers. So on some of these inveters. They may have this arc
• 13:33
  fault protection on there, but when it's when it's supplied, what they don't
• 13:37
  tell you is it's turned and the off possession and you have to go into
• 13:41
  the sentence to turn them on, and they don't really make that clear.
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  And the manuals when when when you're sort of buying a products, and which
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  I think is this artful detection on the DC strings or on the AC side
• 13:54
  of the output. This is on the AC side testing. Okay, I've
• 14:01
  not actually you've taught me something new today. I did not know that they
• 14:03
  were offering that interesting. I'll ask some questions. Mark very quickly just before
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  we go. So we've got to wrap it up. What are some of
• 14:11
  the pros of working in this sector just for the audience of Sparks will be
• 14:16
  listening. Well, I think if you're sort of looking at your future development,
• 14:22
  so you're on personal development, I think it's an industry that it's forever
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  evolving, and I think it's highly positive in terms of like a rewarding what
• 14:33
  you're going to get out of it, because when you are installing renewable energy,
• 14:39
  the user sort of like super happy, you know, like with the
• 14:45
  results that they're getting a cleaner energy. You're feeling that you're doing something for
• 14:48
  the environment, which is really positive. You know, you're tuning up for
• 14:52
  work every day and yeah, there's there's always something new that you'll learn.
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  And I think I think it's that personal development that probably sets really highly up
• 15:01
  there for me in terms of like, yeah, you know that positivity is
• 15:05
  like you're going to be learning something every single week. And your roll the
• 15:11
  Electrical Show on Fixed Radio. This is the Electrical Show and Thomas Naji with
• 15:16
  Paul Meanan and we just finished talking to Mark Kerr. Now he was electrician
• 15:20
  that joined us to discuss working in solo and the sustainable Techi Techi world.
• 15:26
  So yeah, Mark talked to us about installing the UK's first DC coupled battery
• 15:33
  storage. What's your experience with DC coupling, Paul, Lots of experience for
• 15:37
  DC systems. They're a bit of a pain, specially when it comes to
• 15:41
  our CITs. But DC coupling in a nut show is where effectively it's a
• 15:45
  process of connecting a DC generating solo PV with a DC batter system. Because
• 15:52
  what a lot of people do is it Traditionally a solo system would generate DC,
• 15:56
  go to an inverter which converts DC to AC and that you do get
• 16:00
  AC coupled systems as well as DC. An AC coupled system is where you
• 16:04
  take your solar energy, can convert it from DC to AC and then from
• 16:08
  AC back to DC to charge a battery where it is huge, which is
• 16:11
  incredibly wasteful. As we heard, DC coupled is where you just take that
• 16:15
  good old fashioned DC energy straight into a DC storage system where you have the
• 16:19
  absolute minimum of losses. And then in theory in the future you may be
• 16:23
  able to use that for DC distribution circuits which are coming. Whether anybody likes
• 16:27
  it or not, it's going to happen eventually. Give it ten years maybe
• 16:30
  a famous last words, probably five years. But yes, DC coupling is
• 16:34
  about the efficiency of what you're generating and how you're storing it and interconnecting any
• 16:40
  other source of DC. So it seems like a very efficient way of working.
• 16:44
  Yeah, it's it's new. Let's be perfranc If you would have asked
• 16:45
  me three years ago DC coupling, I'd have gone, pun, what I
• 16:49
  had to go on a battery storage course and sit in or how all these
• 16:53
  systems interconnect? And then when I saw DC coupled, I just went,
• 16:56
  that's the common sense answer. I don't want an A because we have a
• 17:00
  lot of battery storage system People go out and buy it as a integrated system,
• 17:04
  so they invert of the battery storage and the option of solar batteries or
• 17:07
  ev. The best thing that they recommend is buy it as a system and
• 17:11
  you get an AC coupled system or a DC. I strongly recommend you get
• 17:15
  a DC coupled system and if you're doing it, get it all at one
• 17:18
  go. That way, it's just easier to integrate rather than looking like a
• 17:22
  butchered mess, which I have seen where people have tried to tie stuff together
• 17:26
  from different manufacturers and it's just been a horrific night car crash of And I've
• 17:32
  seen installations recently of that where you just think, I need to switch this
• 17:34
  off because this is lethal. Why has been your thoughts on harnessing the power
• 17:38
  of the sun. I have always been a fan of harnessing the power of
• 17:45
  the sun, and also the power of the tides, because tidal energy is
• 17:49
  phenomenal. It's just been we've not really looked at it enough until very recently.
• 17:56
  Not necessarily a fan of wind power. The only issue I have with
• 17:59
  harnessing the the sun is the ability for recycling of the panels. If we're
• 18:03
  truly going to be sustainable, all of these millions and millions of panels need
• 18:08
  to be fully recyclable. They're not. It's a real sticking points. There
• 18:12
  are fields of them just being buried where they take millions of years to be
• 18:17
  recycled into the ground. That's incredibly toxic. Way. So if we're truly
• 18:21
  going to be sustainable, make whatever we're using for sustainability re bloody cyclable until
• 18:27
  it don't tell us you're doing sustainability or knit zero. It's a bit of
• 18:32
  a false economy. It's a bit of a greenwashing exercise in my opinion.
• 18:36
  But yes to Folo panels making recyclable because that is a fair point. We
• 18:41
  talk about making you know this is environmentally friendly. And see billboards with a
• 18:45
  couple with two point four kids and they're all smiling with green fields and a
• 18:48
  son in the background. But actually you take these panels and you can't recycle
• 18:52
  them. Carbon is being produced to make these panels against how much you're saving
• 18:57
  an offsetting during the fifteen year Life's a fair point. Show me that data
• 19:02
  and then and show me an objective, fair and balanced argument where you're not
• 19:06
  working for a manufacturer. That would be really great debate to have, but
• 19:10
  unfortunately most people will have a financial agenda in that debate, and that's where
• 19:15
  it just gets muddied constantly. I mean, the next question is battery storage
• 19:22
  great, but I strongly recommend if you have a battery system that it's robust,
• 19:26
  if you can put it outside the house, great. Everything seems to
• 19:30
  be with your mind. Be careful on what you're doing if you are putting
• 19:33
  in the house to make sure you have smoke detection in that area. We're
• 19:37
  not going to avoid it. It's not going to run away from us anytime
• 19:41
  soon. Is it the ultimate answer to want to shove you? Having done
• 19:45
  the battery storage course, it does make your domestic home far more efficient.
• 19:48
  So we were looking at like nine killer what batteries making your home sixties seventy
• 19:52
  percent more efficient, which is phenomenal. But again, learning battery storage,
• 19:56
  there is a whole new set of calculations. There's MCS guidelines. It's or
• 20:02
  more books, more calcs, more formulas to learn to work out and demonstrate
• 20:04
  your efficiencies. But I think battery storage is here to stay. I think
• 20:07
  PV is just a given. I think on all new builds it should just
• 20:11
  go on the roofs by default. To be perfectly frank, But we need
• 20:15
  to teach people about life cycle management. We've grown up as people knowing there's
• 20:19
  a plug, there's a switch, there's a socket. It will last as
• 20:22
  long as it did for your parents and whatever. But now we have to
• 20:26
  go battery by the way, you've got to rip this out within twenty years
• 20:30
  and replace it, or you're risk burning your house down because it will just
• 20:33
  fail, and it could fail tessably. Battery storage. I mean, at
• 20:37
  some point those batteries are going to be recycled. I mean, what's the
• 20:38
  life bound of the battery tape? Depends on the tape, It depends depends
• 20:42
  on the manufacturer, depends on the standard, depends on a lot of variables.
• 20:47
  I saw today in the news a chap went and got his He had
• 20:51
  an electric vehicle for seven years thirty two thousand pound to replace the batteries.
• 20:56
  You're better off buying a new car for that. Literally, I don't think
• 21:00
  that will apply too much to homes, but if you can keep them somewhere
• 21:03
  cool, not too cold, but somewhere where the temperature is generally okay.
• 21:08
  But then again, I mean I've had to put solar battery systems outside where
• 21:12
  it does the temperatures where cycle. Just make sure you're thinking about environmental influences
• 21:18
  and speak to the manufacturers, speak to the installers. Let's wrap up the
• 21:22
  show after some more music here on Fixed Radio, the builders stationed Fix Radio.
• 21:27
  That's it for today's electrical show. Now, our cripsheet here is a
• 21:33
  little bit slim, because I think our producer was a bit tight for times,
• 21:34
  we've just got AOB, any outstanding business, Paul AOB. I've got
• 21:41
  some AOB, But have you got any AOB. I could write a novel
• 21:45
  on solar and all these integrated battery systems. The only thing I always say
• 21:49
  to people when they're looking at battery pv EV, trust but verify, as
• 21:55
  you know, make sure the inverter has external AC and DC surge protection and
• 22:00
  a dedicated isolator. And when you get into it with the solar companies,
• 22:04
  that can get a bit showy with you, but yeah, and try and
• 22:10
  connect it in a neat and pleasurable way. I've seen probably ninety percent of
• 22:15
  the installs i've scene of battery and solar have been a hot mess. And
• 22:18
  when I say a hot mess, I mean literally a hot mess. Mother's
• 22:22
  washing line awful. And you can see the person who was wiring it struggle
• 22:26
  to understand the principles what they were doing. Never mind, the principles have
• 22:30
  been stalling it in decent containment, making it look neat, labeling it up,
• 22:34
  making it maintainable and serviceable. Interestingly enough talking about sustainability and recycling and
• 22:41
  stuff. Do you remember I had that little electric Oh yes, yes,
• 22:45
  I remember it. Yes, cracking little van, absolutely cracking little van.
• 22:48
  I paid tenth oh no, I paid nine thousand quid for it, and
• 22:52
  it had a twenty four killer hour battery. I actually bought it on the
• 22:56
  assumption I had a thirty three killer or a battery. It didn't. Only
• 22:59
  had a twenty four killer a battery. And I've got a thousand pound off
• 23:02
  so and that had on average like a sixty mile range. It was brilliant
• 23:07
  for city driving. But you wouldn't go you know, I couldn't go out
• 23:10
  to SCHUBURNSS on it. It just wouldn't make the journey. But I sold
• 23:14
  that van about two years ago. Now at how time flies, and that
• 23:18
  van is still for sale now on a four chord you're joke, yeah,
• 23:23
  But it goes to show this is the problem with EV and it's I have
• 23:27
  a real bedbug with it because the technology is advancing so fast. These cars
• 23:33
  are being made like it's got a twenty four killer a battery. I only
• 23:36
  had thirteen thousand miles on the clock. I mean, it's got nothing on
• 23:38
  the clock. But the problem is nobody wants that van anymore because it doesn't
• 23:44
  serve a purpose in this world. Anymore. So, like you've got a
• 23:47
  van that's in superb condition with low mileage, but nobody wants it. So
• 23:52
  like we're talking about green and saving the planet and you know, like we're
• 23:56
  going to save the polar bears and stuff, but like you've got a van
• 23:57
  sat there and nobody wants it. And it's like, well, we're just
• 24:00
  churning out cars at a rate of knots and like it's just not as clear
• 24:07
  cut. So steady on their tom because you're talking about an inconvenient truth that
• 24:11
  the marketing machines wouldn't want to necessarily acknowledge it just two years that's been said.
• 24:17
  I mean, I feel sorry for the guy who actually bought the van
• 24:18
  because he's literally got ten thousand quids sailings pocre for the last two years and
• 24:22
  he cannot shift this van. You know. Wow, So it's food for
• 24:26
  thought. You know, we buy these electric vehicles and stuff, and it's
• 24:30
  just that is an inconvenient truth which no one seems to talk about. Most
• 24:33
  people I still know refuse to touch ev with a bargepole. They just won't
• 24:37
  do it. Unless there's this massive tax relief, which a lot of big
• 24:41
  companies have got into but a lot. I know, I do know some
• 24:45
  companies at the moment that are starting a net zero journey and when you ask
• 24:48
  them why, they don't actually know why other than it's kind of government and
• 24:52
  it's a cool thing to do. And then you say, okay, but
• 24:55
  what are you going to do that actually is nt zero? Or do we
• 24:57
  actually understand what nit zero is? And you didn't start to realize, No,
• 25:02
  we're just going to employ a consultant to tell us. And you're like,
• 25:04
  this is just net zero is fastly becoming a overarching term for an economic
• 25:11
  period of society. So the industry evolution, it's the net zero revolution economic
• 25:17
  all right, Well, you can hear it all again from ten o'clock tonight
• 25:18
  here on Fixed Radio with more great music. We're building a community of electricians
• 25:23
  of fixed radio and we want you to join us, and you can do
• 25:26
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• 25:32
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