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Transcript

Stima Sacco · The Mwango Capital Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining us.
0:01
SPEAKER_00: My name is Eric Mokai, I'm the founder of Mwango Capital.
0:03
We try to have really interesting and engaging conversations on
0:06
markets and around East Africa.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: So today we are privileged to have the Stephen Sarko CEO.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: I will allow him to introduce himself and then we can get started.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: Dr. Cavallon, over to you.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: My name is Gamal El-Hassan.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: I am the CEO at Steve Masako.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: I like to think myself as a Kenyan, just like any other.
0:25
Like 48 million or so with peculiar Kenyan habits,
0:29
just like every other Kenyan.
0:31
I consider myself just a typical Kenyan with the same habits
0:34
that other Kenyans have.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: Kenyans in general here are very hardworking.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: That's also a reality.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: As you go outside the country,
0:40
you'd find Kenyans looking and living in so many other
0:43
countries outside there in
0:44
SPEAKER_01: many other positions.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to think that as Kenyans,
0:47
SPEAKER_01: we managed to give the mighty United States of America a president.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: That is a Kenyan.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: You can think about the roots.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Orishi,
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who was the new prime minister at one time and where he was
0:58
coming from and very
0:59
SPEAKER_01: many other things that we do have of Kenyans across the world.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: who are trying to do their thing.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: So again, I'm just a Kenyan, just like any other.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm lucky enough to also hear the CEO at Stima Circle.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: An institution that has been in existence for the last 50 years,
1:13
the second largest circle in Africa and soon to be the largest
1:17
circle in Africa in
1:18
SPEAKER_01: a times panel.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Less than two years or so,
1:20
we have great strides that we are thinking that we'll be able
1:23
to achieve in the
1:24
SPEAKER_01: next two years or so.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: And Stima Saku is a subcoach for everyone.
1:28
It is open to all Kenyans who are living and residing anywhere
1:32
in the globe.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: And also for non-Kenyans who actually reside and legally work in Kenya.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: So I'm a very lucky Kenyan in that respect.
1:40
And I don't take it for granted that I've been given an
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opportunity to lead this
1:43
SPEAKER_01: very great institution in the name of Stima Saku.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: In a nutshell, that's who I am, family man, and a Kenyan.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: So perhaps you can start from the simple,
1:51
because the aim of the spaces today is to take everyone from a
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scale of around zero
1:55
to around seven over 10 in terms of understanding the circle
1:58
space in Kenya and
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Sima Circle is positioned in that.
2:00
So I should say,
2:01
if you have any questions,
2:03
please DM us and write them below the pinned tweet.
2:05
But I'll start with maybe an engaging conversation for the next
2:08
30 minutes with Dr.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: Kamali on this.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: So my final question to you is,
2:12
what is a circle and how do you differentiate a circle from the
2:15
other financial
2:16
SPEAKER_00: institutions in the Kenyan financial space?
2:18
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for that question.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: It's a very nice place to start at.
2:22
How do you differentiate a SACO from any other institution that
2:26
is outside there?
2:26
So SACOs in principle are run under what we call the seven
2:31
cooperative principles.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: Remember, a SACO is a savings and credit cooperative.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: That's what S-A-C-O-S means, SACO, savings and credit cooperative.
2:43
And therefore we all run under what is termed as the
2:47
cooperative principles within circles.
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SPEAKER_01: And there are seven of them.
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The first one being that for you to be in a state is what you
2:54
call voluntary open membership.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: So you voluntarily join a circle and you voluntarily exit one.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: So no one can force you to become a member of the circle.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: The second most important principle is democratic member control.
3:10
So circles,
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unlike other financial institutions,
3:13
are democratically controlled by members.
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SPEAKER_01: So what does that mean?
3:18
It means that every individual who's in a circle is an owner of
3:22
the circle,
3:23
SPEAKER_01: has share capital or a spare holding within that circle.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: And in any relation with the circle,
3:30
SPEAKER_01: you're not there as a mere customer,
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SPEAKER_01: but more as an investor and more importantly,
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SPEAKER_01: as an owner.
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SPEAKER_01: So you own that circle by virtue of having a shareholding unit.
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SPEAKER_01: So we do not deal with non-members.
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SPEAKER_01: We only deal with our owners who are our members.
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SPEAKER_01: The third element is that circles are autonomous and independent.
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SPEAKER_01: What does it mean?
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It just means that although a circle could have been born from
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a common bond,
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SPEAKER_01: It does not mean that's where they remain.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: An example of Stunwa is in 1974,
4:01
SPEAKER_01: we came from Kenya power,
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SPEAKER_01: but it does not mean we are Kenya power.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: We are very independent from them.
4:06
And from the year 2010,
4:07
we opened up our common bonds to every other Kenyan outside there.
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SPEAKER_01: And that's why I said at the very initial introduction,
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SPEAKER_01: that we are open to any Kenyan anywhere in the globe.
4:18
So there's an autonomy and independence between ourselves and
4:21
our parent companies.
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SPEAKER_01: And for Steema Circle,
4:23
we have more than 470 companies that we have what you call a
4:27
check-off arrangement with.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: That is similar to what we have with the very initial company,
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SPEAKER_01: which was Kenya Power,
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but there are another 469 companies that we do have a check-off
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arrangement with them.
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SPEAKER_01: What point is around member economic participation.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: This is a very important principle for us.
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SPEAKER_01: Now, as I've mentioned in the circle sector, we deal with only members.
4:49
These members give us their investment in the form of either
4:52
shareholding or in the
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SPEAKER_01: form of savings or deposits,
4:54
SPEAKER_01: which we trade with.
4:55
And from the fact that we trade with your money and circles are
4:58
very good at
4:59
SPEAKER_01: trading with your money.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: We do make an income from it.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: It is from that income that we're able to give you something back and
5:05
SPEAKER_01: Obviously,
5:05
we'll have a discussion around things like dividends and
5:08
interest rebates that we
5:09
actually give back to our members and our owners by the virtue
5:13
of having traded
5:14
SPEAKER_01: with their own money.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: The other principle that is there is cooperation amongst cooperators.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: That's very key.
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SPEAKER_01: In the circle sector, we don't believe in competition.
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SPEAKER_01: We believe in collaboration.
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SPEAKER_01: So you would find that a steamer as an example,
5:28
SPEAKER_01: You would find that we would be visited by very many other circles,
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SPEAKER_01: not just in Kenya,
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SPEAKER_01: but across Africa and also across the globe itself.
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SPEAKER_01: So every other time there are circles going outside,
5:39
SPEAKER_01: they are trying to learn from one another,
5:41
incorporating amongst each other because you all share the same principles.
5:45
Another very key element of the circles is the concern for the community.
5:49
Now,
5:49
this is close to what you've seen around ESG,
5:53
the modeling that came out a few years ago.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: Circles have been doing this for eons.
5:57
One of the key cooperative principles is that we must be
6:00
concerned for the
6:01
SPEAKER_01: community around us,
6:02
SPEAKER_01: the communities,
6:03
SPEAKER_01: our members,
6:04
SPEAKER_01: physically where we are located,
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SPEAKER_01: things to do with CSR and CSI initiatives.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: So that is a very strong principle.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: or being in the circle sector.
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SPEAKER_01: And the last one,
6:13
SPEAKER_01: which differentiates us from any other financial institution,
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SPEAKER_01: is that the circles have a principle around education,
6:20
SPEAKER_01: training,
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SPEAKER_01: and information.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: It is a requirement.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: It is expected of us that even as we trade with you,
6:27
even as we go ahead and give you the dividends that you're
6:30
providing to you,
6:31
SPEAKER_01: give you affordable credit facilities,
6:33
SPEAKER_01: over and above that,
6:35
SPEAKER_01: we need to educate you as a member.
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SPEAKER_01: So the education is beyond just member education.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: It's about financial literacy,
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SPEAKER_01: financial coaching,
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asking the hard questions of truly do you really need these
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credit facilities?
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Is there a way we can be able to make you grow?
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So training,
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information,
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pumping a lot of information as much as possible to our membership.
6:55
And that truly differentiates us with the banking sector,
6:58
the traditional banks.
6:59
So in terms of ownership,
7:00
as I've mentioned,
7:01
you're not a customer,
7:03
you're a shareholder.
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SPEAKER_01: We carry out profits distribution and that's why we pay you dividends.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: Unlike other financial institutions,
7:10
SPEAKER_01: we'll only pay external shareholders,
7:12
SPEAKER_01: not customers the dividends as we pay you the dividends.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: Our loan accessibility, we try as very much as possible.
7:19
Yes,
7:19
we use credit scoring,
7:21
collateral,
7:21
but we also have other aspects around it.
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SPEAKER_01: For example,
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SPEAKER_01: Looking at securing through the guarantorship model,
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looking at member deposits and your contributions that you do
7:31
have in the SACO.
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SPEAKER_01: The other point is around regulation.
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SPEAKER_01: Other financial institutions have their regulators.
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SPEAKER_01: We in the SACO sector are regulated by SASRA.
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SPEAKER_01: SASRA is the SACO Society's Regulatory Authority.
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SPEAKER_01: I think the best way to answer this is to say,
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SPEAKER_01: just like in the banking sector,
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SPEAKER_01: we have CBK,
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SPEAKER_01: the Central Bank of Kenya that regulates them.
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SPEAKER_01: We in the circle sector,
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SPEAKER_01: there are circles regulated with a similar regulator,
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SPEAKER_01: co-encestra,
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SPEAKER_01: but specifically for the circles itself.
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And the last point I would like to raise is that a primary
8:02
distinction between
8:03
ourselves with any other financial institution outside there is
8:06
that circles
8:07
SPEAKER_01: generally are about financial inclusion.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: It's about providing affordable credit and savings and growing.
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SPEAKER_01: That's why we are savings and credit cooperative.
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We're really good and strong at enabling you to save so that
8:19
you're able to grow.
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Unlike other financial institutions that are there for
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commercial profitability.
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I think that distinction I have tried to paint between
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ourselves and other financial entities.
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SPEAKER_00: Perhaps now we can break down a bit on what's the essence of a circle?
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SPEAKER_00: How does a circle make money?
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SPEAKER_00: And how do you get to your deposits?
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SPEAKER_00: And how do you then loan to customers?
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SPEAKER_00: Take us through that cycle of how a circle operates and makes money.
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SPEAKER_01: Circle is first and foremost, the primary objective.
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of a circle is to encourage a culture of thrifts or a culture
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of saving and
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SPEAKER_01: financial discipline.
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SPEAKER_01: That is our key strength.
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SPEAKER_01: And as I've mentioned, we are a savings and credit cooperative.
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SPEAKER_01: So savings comes first before any other thing.
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SPEAKER_01: Now, once you have the savings in place,
9:04
Then we can talk about offering affordable credit to our
9:07
members and then offering
9:09
SPEAKER_01: an opportunity for investment for them.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: And like I've mentioned,
9:12
to also promote a bit of financial literacy and cooperative
9:16
growth amongst our members.
9:17
So savings mobilization is about us being able to offer you a
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variety of saving products,
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SPEAKER_01: whereby we can promote regular deposits of member funds.
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SPEAKER_01: So when you become a circle member,
9:29
SPEAKER_01: there's an expectation that you would be able to sell on a monthly basis.
9:34
Every month,
9:35
every small amount of money you have outside there,
9:37
you're able to put in that.
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SPEAKER_01: Now, what are we encouraging here?
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We're encouraging thrift in this sense that if somebody today
9:44
was to offer,
9:45
SPEAKER_01: say,
9:46
SPEAKER_01: 500 shillings to you,
9:47
SPEAKER_01: what are you going to do with that money?
9:49
SPEAKER_01: And how much value does 500 bob have with you?
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SPEAKER_01: And let's not play with a small amount of figure.
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SPEAKER_01: Let's call it 100 bob.
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SPEAKER_01: If today somebody was to offer you 100 shillings,
9:58
SPEAKER_01: just from nowhere,
9:58
SPEAKER_01: as we speak right now,
10:00
SPEAKER_01: what do you do with that money?
10:01
SPEAKER_01: And what value does it have to you?
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SPEAKER_01: Circles have learned the aspect of compounding on savings,
10:07
SPEAKER_01: and that's why we encourage savings on a monthly basis.
10:10
Circles like Steema actually encourage savings on a daily basis
10:14
using a mobile platform,
10:16
SPEAKER_01: using internet banking,
10:17
SPEAKER_01: which is using agency banking,
10:19
SPEAKER_01: using a variant many ways that we're able to offer channels.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: You can be able to sell money in stimulus.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: And that means we are looking at,
10:27
SPEAKER_01: say,
10:28
SPEAKER_01: saving a hundred shillings every day,
10:30
SPEAKER_01: and we encourage that.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: So if you have a hundred,
10:32
Bob would give you a bid platform whereby you very quickly can
10:35
be able to sell that
10:36
SPEAKER_01: money using your own mobile platform.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: And a hundred times 30 is what?
10:39
SPEAKER_01: 3K.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: 3,000 times three months, 9,000.
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SPEAKER_01: And that's for about 100 shillings only.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: So again, 3,000 times 12 is almost what?
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's a lot of money.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Almost 2,000 at the end of the year.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: And that is only coming from serving 100 shillings in Medina.
10:57
So what Sarko is there for a very good degree is to encourage
11:00
members to sell.
11:02
And we're able to offer you a myriad of savings products with
11:05
prefixed deposits.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: There could be a children's savings account, holiday accounts.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: You could be thinking about dating the children.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: We offer such kind of savings platforms for you.
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Even offering kids accounts whereby you can encourage the
11:19
children to also put some
11:21
SPEAKER_01: money with us.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: The beautiful thing about the circle sector,
11:24
SPEAKER_01: as I've mentioned before,
11:25
SPEAKER_01: is that the money that you're putting with us,
11:27
SPEAKER_01: the savings that you're putting with us,
11:28
SPEAKER_01: especially in terms of deposits,
11:30
SPEAKER_01: are the same ones that can later on be utilized to ask for credit.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: So you can ask for a 10 times multiplier,
11:37
SPEAKER_01: five times multiplier,
11:38
SPEAKER_01: depending on your ability absolutely to repay.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: So you're very good at mobilization.
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And that's how we managed to get in a lot of the liquidity that
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we require to
11:49
SPEAKER_01: actually carry out our business.
11:50
Perhaps a key question then would be,
11:52
how does one become a member of a circle?
11:55
How can I say that I'm part of Steema Circle or do I need to
11:59
get started as a member?
12:02
SPEAKER_01: We are guided by the Cooperative Act and the Circle Societies Act.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: There are various regulations that regulate the operations of circles.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: And of course, there are bylaws that we also subscribe to.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: And one of the key LGBT criteria for joining a circle in Kenya,
12:19
SPEAKER_01: you must be the age of 18 and above.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: And for Stima Sarko's case,
12:23
SPEAKER_01: whether you reside in Kenya or not,
12:25
SPEAKER_01: that is not relevant as long as you're a Kenyan.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: You could also be a corporate member.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: This could be a registered business,
12:32
SPEAKER_01: a registered institution,
12:34
SPEAKER_01: investment groups,
12:35
SPEAKER_01: locally what you're known as Chamaz are also able to join,
12:39
SPEAKER_01: including other circles who are also our members.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: Now,
12:42
SPEAKER_01: for the ones who are younger than 18 years,
12:44
SPEAKER_01: unfortunately,
12:45
SPEAKER_01: the law in Kenya is yet to allow individuals younger than 18 to directly
12:51
SPEAKER_01: become members of SACO.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: However,
12:53
SPEAKER_01: as long as your parent is within the SACO sector,
12:56
SPEAKER_01: then that parent can be able to open a children's account for you.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: And that's why we've managed to have very young members,
13:02
SPEAKER_01: as young as six months old,
13:04
who have actually joined Steema SACO and have become members of
13:07
Steema by virtue of
13:08
SPEAKER_01: having a kid's account.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: In terms of registration, then a couple of things we'll ask of you.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: Typically proof, if you're a Kenyan, a copy of your national ID.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: And not just national ID, it could also be a passport.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Remember, we also do have members in the diaspora.
13:23
It is also now a key requirement to provide a carry PIN certificate,
13:28
and that is by law.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: A passport size photo will be requested from you.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: An application form that is available online or in our branches.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: And then we'll be requesting you to do just two or three things.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: One is to put a minimum share capital.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Currently, our minimum share capital is only 500 shillings.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: So we'll be requesting you to put some money aside for share capital,
13:50
SPEAKER_01: some money aside for savings.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: and also a membership fee.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: So typically with about 2,500 shillings,
13:56
SPEAKER_01: you're able to separate money,
13:58
SPEAKER_01: which is about 500,
13:59
SPEAKER_01: Bob,
13:59
SPEAKER_01: money that is going to your monthly savings,
14:01
SPEAKER_01: which is about a thousand and so,
14:03
SPEAKER_01: and then the rest of the money,
14:04
SPEAKER_01: you can put that in share capital.
14:06
So once you have that and you become a member by having funded
14:10
those three accounts
14:11
SPEAKER_01: I've mentioned,
14:12
SPEAKER_01: you now can be able to open an account,
14:14
SPEAKER_01: which is called a prime account.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: A prime account is typically
14:17
SPEAKER_01: what in a bank would be a transactional current account.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: So we have that.
14:22
So typically remember that Sarkos do everything that the
14:25
banking sector does.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: The thing that they do, we do an exemption maybe of two things.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: One, we don't directly trade in foreign exchange.
14:32
And number two,
14:33
we do not have direct access to the national payment system.
14:35
But when it comes to things like having a current account or a
14:39
transactional account,
14:40
you're able to have one in operating so that you can have an
14:43
ATM card that you can utilize.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: In addition to that,
14:46
SPEAKER_01: you're able to process your salary through that prime account,
14:49
SPEAKER_01: process your loans,
14:50
SPEAKER_01: and of course,
14:51
SPEAKER_01: the dividend disbursements that come with it.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: And then in addition to that,
14:55
SPEAKER_01: once you have those three,
14:56
SPEAKER_01: those are the three main accounts,
14:58
SPEAKER_01: a deposit account where you can make monthly contribution,
15:01
SPEAKER_01: Remember from this deposit account to the monthly contribution,
15:05
this will later act as a security for loans that you're going
15:09
to be provided with.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: And number two,
15:11
SPEAKER_01: this money,
15:11
SPEAKER_01: because as I've mentioned earlier,
15:13
re-utilizing your money to trade with the same money that you
15:16
provide interest
15:17
SPEAKER_01: rebate to on an annual basis.
15:20
Then the second bit is the share capital that gives you the
15:23
holding into the circle.
15:25
It's non-withdrawable,
15:26
non-refundable,
15:27
but you're able to transfer it upon exit.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: And this is what earns dividends for you every year.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: And that also is proof that you're a member of the circle.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: And the last account, which I mentioned,
15:38
SPEAKER_01: is the transactional account,
15:40
what is called the prime account that allows for salary
15:43
processing and for you to
15:44
SPEAKER_01: do your day-to-day business,
15:46
SPEAKER_01: including having things like a checkbook that you can be able to utilize.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: So once you have that, you're already a member of the circle.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: And from there on,
15:54
you can open for you the other array or the bouquet of savings
15:59
products that we do have,
16:00
SPEAKER_01: which are quite many,
16:01
SPEAKER_01: including holding a fixed deposit account,
16:04
SPEAKER_01: holding a children education account.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: And then from there,
16:07
You're now able to get access to the loan products and every
16:11
other service around
16:12
SPEAKER_01: our mobile platform,
16:13
SPEAKER_01: our internet banking,
16:15
SPEAKER_01: and also the agency platforms that we do on.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: Next step is what products can I access?
16:21
SPEAKER_00: What are some of the benefits I can access?
16:23
SPEAKER_00: Once I am a member,
16:24
SPEAKER_00: what are some of the things,
16:26
SPEAKER_00: specifically the stimulus or offers that I can tap into?
16:29
And at the same time,
16:30
a good friend of mine is really wondering what these interest
16:32
rebates are.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: So perhaps you can expand on that a little bit.
16:36
So let me start with the latter,
16:37
which is the aspect of the interest rebates.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: Let's dive back.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: For you to become a member of the circle,
16:43
you need to have ownership and therefore you're required to
16:48
have a share capital.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: In Stima Circle, the minimum share capital is only 500.
16:51
I think the highest individual who has shares in Stima has
16:56
about 37 million shillings.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: That's the highest shareholder.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: The second bit is that you must have deposits.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: This deposit is what internally we call alpha deposits.
17:05
These are the monthly savings that are required of you by
17:09
virtue of being a SACO member.
17:11
It's the example I gave of putting aside a hundred bob every
17:14
day and probably
17:15
SPEAKER_01: putting 3,000 shillings every month in 2000 at the end of the year.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: That amount could be anything.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: It could be an amount of a thousand bob.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: The others would put 10,000 shillings, a hundred thousand, a million bob.
17:28
It depends with your ability and how you've managed to grow
17:31
your sales over the years.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: So these two earn a return from the circle.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: So the shares...
17:38
SPEAKER_01: a minimum being 500.
17:39
And like I've mentioned,
17:40
the maximum shareholder currently in SEMAR is about $37 million.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: These individuals earn what is called a dividend.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: And for the last five or six years in a row,
17:51
SPEAKER_01: SEMAR SACO has been giving a return of 15% on this shareholding.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: That's the first bit.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: The second bit,
17:58
SPEAKER_01: you have the monthly deposits that,
17:59
SPEAKER_01: you remember that daily 100 bob I've talked about,
18:02
SPEAKER_01: that translates to a monthly savings for you.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: So by virtue that you give us your money,
18:08
SPEAKER_01: your hard-earned money,
18:10
SPEAKER_01: every month you dedicate yourself,
18:12
SPEAKER_01: you make sure you say,
18:13
SPEAKER_01: no,
18:13
SPEAKER_01: whatever 100 bob or 20 bob I have a day,
18:16
I'm putting it aside religiously for the circle and for my own
18:20
personal savings.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: Then surely you deserve something back for it.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: And unlike putting this money,
18:26
SPEAKER_01: say,
18:26
SPEAKER_01: in a typical account,
18:28
SPEAKER_01: a bank account or a savings account,
18:30
SPEAKER_01: this money we are actively trading with every day.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: And we are using this money to give other people loans.
18:37
It's your money that you are trading with so that another
18:40
person can come to the
18:41
SPEAKER_01: circle and get a loan or a facility.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: And we make profit from that.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: If you're making profit from that,
18:48
SPEAKER_01: again,
18:48
SPEAKER_01: surely,
18:49
SPEAKER_01: then you do deserve to be paid something from it.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: So because we've traded in your money for a period of one year,
18:56
SPEAKER_01: then at the end of every year,
18:57
just like you have put a share capital for ownership and you
19:00
pay you a dividend free,
19:01
SPEAKER_01: we also give you a return on the deposits.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: And this return is what we call interest rebates.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: And typically for stimulus circle,
19:10
SPEAKER_01: again,
19:10
SPEAKER_01: for the last five years or so,
19:12
SPEAKER_01: we have been giving a return of 11%.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: on this one.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: Now,
19:18
SPEAKER_01: a very important thing as well,
19:20
SPEAKER_01: just to wrap up on this issue of interest rebates and dividends,
19:23
SPEAKER_01: for the circle sector,
19:24
and why it's so important for you to be a member of a circle if
19:27
you're not,
19:27
is the fact that when it comes to the aspect of dividend and
19:31
interest rebates,
19:32
SPEAKER_01: and by law,
19:33
SPEAKER_01: and because,
19:33
SPEAKER_01: as I've mentioned,
19:34
SPEAKER_01: we are only trading not for profit,
19:37
SPEAKER_01: but we're trading with our own members,
19:39
SPEAKER_01: then because it's the same money that we've used to trade with
19:42
with the government through regulation and through various acts
19:46
within the income
19:47
SPEAKER_01: tax act,
19:48
SPEAKER_01: you are only charged a final withholding tax of 5%,
19:52
SPEAKER_01: both on your dividends and your interest rebates.
19:55
And for that is a very key result of why ideally you should
19:58
actually have your
19:59
SPEAKER_01: savings in a circle.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: So the second question was around the kind of products you have.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: So again,
20:04
SPEAKER_01: remember,
20:05
SPEAKER_01: if you are to work to any financial institution,
20:08
SPEAKER_01: if you are to work to anything,
20:10
SPEAKER_01: I do various services.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: We offer all of those services.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: So let's start with the FinTech.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: If you're looking for a mobile loan,
20:18
you should be able to get that from Stimasako or most of the
20:22
circles that are
20:23
SPEAKER_01: outside there.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: Number two,
20:25
SPEAKER_01: if you're looking to trade,
20:27
SPEAKER_01: to refer it to your prime account,
20:28
SPEAKER_01: your transactional account.
20:30
Again,
20:31
we are able to do that by virtue that you already have a mobile
20:34
platform on board.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: We have internet banking.
20:37
As I've mentioned,
20:37
we have a checking account,
20:39
so you can get a checkbook from our site.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: You can get an ATM and an ATM that is branded as a Steema Circle ATM.
20:47
Visa branded,
20:48
meaning you can use it anywhere in the world,
20:50
anywhere in the globe.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: As long as that ATM,
20:53
SPEAKER_01: whether in America,
20:54
SPEAKER_01: in Europe,
20:55
SPEAKER_01: in China,
20:55
SPEAKER_01: wherever it is that you are,
20:57
SPEAKER_01: you'd be able to put that ATM card into an ATM,
21:01
SPEAKER_01: which is Visa branded,
21:02
SPEAKER_01: and you'd be able to check your account,
21:04
SPEAKER_01: remove funds,
21:05
SPEAKER_01: deposit funds,
21:07
SPEAKER_01: irrespective of where you are.
21:08
So that's a very key service that you offer in terms of having
21:12
a current account,
21:12
SPEAKER_01: which is your transactional day-to-day account.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: The second bit is, remember the deposit account we talked about.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: This deposit account is important, very critical.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: Actually, it is the basic aspect of being in a circle.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: It is the account that every month has your sales.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: You will finally come back and say, okay, hold on.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: I put in $100.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: Every day.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: In 30 days, that is 3K.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: In about three months, I put 9,000 shillings with you.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: You can come to the circle and say, hold on, I need money.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: I need financing at a very affordable rates.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: And we will apply what is called a multiplier on that.
21:50
The multiplier can be anywhere from times two up to we have a
21:54
facility that goes 10 times,
21:56
which means potentially you could get a loan that is either
21:59
three times of these abounds,
22:01
SPEAKER_01: 9,000 times three is 27K.
22:03
And potentially you could get a loan facility at 9,000 times 10,
22:07
which is 90,000 shillings.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: So we are using that as a basis of security for lending to you.
22:13
This is important,
22:15
again,
22:15
because many people might not have a collateral welfare.
22:18
Yes,
22:19
if you have a car and a house,
22:21
you can be able to take that as part of your collateral.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: But very many other people might not necessarily have that.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: And probably they'll say,
22:28
can I use the savings I'm putting in the circle to borrow some
22:31
money from it?
22:32
SPEAKER_01: So...
22:33
That therefore opens you up to a variety of very many products
22:38
that you have around loans.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: So development loans, very key.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: These are long-term financing for you,
22:44
whereby we look at the savings that you've put in the circle
22:47
itself in terms of the deposits.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, offer your multiplier.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: And you can be able to buy stuff with this.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: You can buy land.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: You can construct.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: If you have a business, you can be able to expand with it.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: We'd be able to offer you things like an emergency loan.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: So this is whereby you have an emergency loan.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it could be school fees.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: We actually have a school fees done for that.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: It could be emergency in the sense of you have a medical emergency.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: It could be a rent that is due.
23:12
You're buying something and it's from an emergency perspective,
23:15
able to provide that to you.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: We offer things like asset financing.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: So if you're purchasing vehicles,
23:21
SPEAKER_01: machinery,
23:21
SPEAKER_01: and other assets,
23:22
SPEAKER_01: and the beautiful thing about asset financing,
23:25
SPEAKER_01: we utilize the asset itself as the collateral.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: So the asset that you're buying,
23:29
SPEAKER_01: the vehicle,
23:30
is the one that will be utilized as a security for getting that
23:34
particular vehicle.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: You also offer things like affordable mortgage.
23:37
Stima Circle was amongst the first circle that joined what is
23:41
called the Kenya
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Mortgage Finance Company.
23:44
We are able to give you loans as a low rate of 9% on a reducing
23:48
balance for up to
23:49
SPEAKER_01: 20 to 25 years.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: So that's very key.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: Mobile loans, I've talked about that.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: And for Stima, you're also unique.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: We also have Islamic financing.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: We have our flagship product called the Yassar line of business.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: This is Sharia compliant financing options.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: And this is for those who profess not just the Muslim faith,
24:09
SPEAKER_01: but also are looking for an alternative way of banking.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: So we're able to provide them our Yassar sort of products
24:16
SPEAKER_01: to enable them to get the financing solutions that are required.
24:19
Additional services that we have around insurance,
24:22
we do have an Empower Insurance Agency.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: We are converting this to a brokerage.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: It offers things like life, motor, and business insurance.
24:31
For those who love playing golf,
24:33
we can also cover you for golf insurance in case
24:37
SPEAKER_01: You hit the ball and hit a car or hit someone.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: If where you have a house,
24:42
you're able to provide insurance for your house in case there's
24:45
fire or any other
24:46
SPEAKER_01: calamity that actually comes about.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: And I've already mentioned around a mobile banking platform.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: We do have two mobile platforms.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: One is called M-Steamer and one is called M-Power.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: We do this so that in case one is down,
24:58
SPEAKER_01: the member will always have 24-7 access on the other mobile platform.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: And from there, you're also able to get mobile loans.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I said whatever FinTech is offering,
25:07
SPEAKER_01: you're also able to offer,
25:08
including having access to savings and also having access to
25:12
transferring money.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: For example,
25:13
SPEAKER_01: you can utilize Pesalink and transfer up to 999999,
25:18
SPEAKER_01: one shilling less than a million bucks.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: You're able to do that from the comfort of your own phone.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: If you have debts that you need to pay,
25:24
you're also able to carry out instructions using Pesalink to
25:27
actually transfer the money.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: Maybe the last point would be around internet banking.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: We also offer convenient online banking.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: We do appreciate that our members,
25:36
SPEAKER_01: and Kenya in particular is a tech savannah,
25:38
SPEAKER_01: is a silicon savannah.
25:40
And we appreciate that our members may not necessarily want to
25:43
come physically to visit us.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: We do have 12 branches across the country.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: and about 85 agents.
25:49
But we also appreciate that members may not necessarily want to
25:52
physically visit
25:53
SPEAKER_01: these locations I've mentioned.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: And therefore,
25:55
SPEAKER_01: because of that,
25:55
we have conveniently provided for them an online banking
25:59
platform whereby they can
26:01
do everything else that they probably would have done by
26:04
visiting us across the branches.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: And of course,
26:06
SPEAKER_01: I've mentioned about our agency banking,
26:09
SPEAKER_01: whereby we have what is called Stimum Langoni.
26:12
Our idea is that the moment you open the door,
26:15
you should be able to see Stimasako Mlangoni.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: So the door of your office,
26:19
SPEAKER_01: the door of your house,
26:20
SPEAKER_01: as you walk out of your house or your office,
26:22
SPEAKER_01: we would love a day whereby Stimasako would actually be there.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: So our agency banking, our own agency banking platform is very critical.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: And of course,
26:31
SPEAKER_01: lastly,
26:31
SPEAKER_01: and maybe finally,
26:32
SPEAKER_01: we do offer other services,
26:33
SPEAKER_01: seamless processing of salaries and allowance.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: For those who are listening,
26:37
SPEAKER_01: Your salary, your fellow, you have something called salary.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't need to go to any other financial institution.
26:45
If you're looking for advances,
26:47
salary advances,
26:48
then you're able to get that.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: If your allowances are being paid, then you're able to utilize it.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: And remember, I've spoken about a transaction on accounts.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: It means on a daily basis,
26:59
SPEAKER_01: you can put aside and allocate and say,
27:00
SPEAKER_01: this amount of money would go to my shares.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: This amount of money I'm taking into deposits.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: This amount of money, so you put it in the transactional account.
27:09
That's the kind of money that probably you'd be utilizing on a
27:12
daily basis to carry
27:14
SPEAKER_01: out whatever needs that you do have.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: Quite a lot.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: I hope I've managed to address the question that has been raised.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you've addressed as many questions as possible.
27:22
So I'll give you a short break and I'll invite the audience a
27:25
bit to come in with
27:26
SPEAKER_00: your questions.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: I see a couple of questions already come in.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: I'll forward them to Gamaliel very soon.
27:32
In the meantime,
27:32
I just want to remind you how you can send in your questions.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: You can DM us and then you can also just below the pinned tweet,
27:38
SPEAKER_00: you can just write a couple of questions in there.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: So you're dissecting what a circle is and specifically Sima Sarko.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: We had plans to go for an hour,
27:45
SPEAKER_00: but it seems like a very engaging conversation,
27:47
SPEAKER_00: so we may go over slightly.
27:49
I just want to go back a little bit,
27:51
Gamaliel,
27:51
to the issue of rebates versus dividends.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Every end of financial year,
27:57
SPEAKER_00: you find all these circles,
27:58
SPEAKER_00: they are all giving different rates of dividends.
28:01
Someone would be maybe tempted to go to other circles where
28:04
it's been giving a bit
28:05
SPEAKER_00: more higher dividend and all.
28:07
What's your take on what causes all these variances in terms of
28:10
dividend payments,
28:11
SPEAKER_00: interest rates,
28:12
SPEAKER_00: rebates also differ.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: What does it either affect this too?
28:15
SPEAKER_00: And then we'll go on to financials after that.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: All right.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: That's also a very good question.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: And thank you for that.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: Let's be honest.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: Every year, there's a World Cup.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Super Bowl, if you like, the other football.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: But there's a World Cup of AGMs, of dividends being paid out.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of excitement within the whole sector.
28:34
There are a lot of queues you will see around banking halls or
28:37
banking halls and
28:38
SPEAKER_01: across the other circles as well.
28:40
And a lot of non-members normally would not understand what is
28:44
this Hulabalu all about.
28:46
It's really about the principle of member economic empowerment
28:50
whereby we try as
28:51
SPEAKER_01: much as possible to give back.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: a fair amount from the profits that you're making.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: Is it fair to make 100 bob and keep the whole 100 shillings?
29:01
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: So we put aside some money in terms of operational capex,
29:06
SPEAKER_01: operational expenditure,
29:08
SPEAKER_01: our capital expenditure,
29:10
SPEAKER_01: some money aside for any day.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: We put aside the big chunk of it, however, goes back to our members.
29:15
More than 40%,
29:17
45% of the money that we earn as a profit,
29:20
we actually pay back our membership.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: And that is across many circles as well.
29:24
The issue of dividends and rebates and the kind of variances we
29:28
see in the industry
29:29
SPEAKER_01: is completely dependent on how individual circles are performed.
29:33
Again,
29:33
the dividends and rebates are being paid from the profits that
29:36
we're making.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: So if you're profitable as an institution,
29:39
it means you're able to sustain and provide higher rates with
29:43
the members that you
29:43
SPEAKER_01: do have.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: The only question I'll throw out,
29:45
SPEAKER_01: which I always do,
29:47
is to state that you always do your due diligence in terms of
29:50
the circles you're joining.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: Number one, are these circles regulated by SASDA?
29:55
SPEAKER_01: That's very key.
29:56
So I always encourage that you join circles and be part of the
30:01
circles that are regulated.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: So we have what are called deposit taking circles and others are called
30:06
SPEAKER_01: non-withdrawable deposit taking circles.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: These are regulated.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: There are about 180 of each,
30:11
SPEAKER_01: which brings about 360 circles in Kenya that are actually regulated.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: So even as you look at what is being given to you as a return,
30:19
SPEAKER_01: the first question you should always ask yourself is,
30:22
SPEAKER_01: the place I've put my money is the money theft.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: So return is secondary.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: The first key, you have given money to somebody.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: You have given a principal amount to somebody.
30:33
Can that principal sum be guaranteed that if you need it,
30:37
you're going to have it?
30:38
SPEAKER_01: So number one is the money safe.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: Number two, if I want my money back, am I going to get it?
30:43
SPEAKER_01: Number three is the money accessible.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: And then lastly, let's talk about the aspect of return.
30:49
Obviously,
30:50
and this goes without saying,
30:52
if the return is too good,
30:53
normally think twice.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: If somebody is offering you a return of 30%,
30:57
SPEAKER_01: ask them,
30:58
SPEAKER_01: what are you trading in to give you such a return?
31:01
The variances that occur is certainly just about the individual
31:05
circles looking at
31:06
SPEAKER_01: how much money have they generated and asking hard questions internally.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: then how much can we give back to our membership?
31:14
What is a fair assessment in terms that I've been trading with you,
31:17
you've been my partner.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: As I've mentioned, I'm dealing with you as an owner.
31:21
The circle is not looking at you as a mere customer who is to
31:24
be milked dry.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: And then after that, we make profits and stay with the profits.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: No, we are dealing with you from the very beginning as an owner.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: You're the boss of this institution.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: You're the boss of the circle.
31:35
So as the boss and as the owners,
31:37
the shareholder,
31:38
what is a fair deal back to you?
31:41
SPEAKER_01: And obviously every circle would have a different thought around it.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: But as I've said, it all depends on the bottom line.
31:48
How much revenue have you generated and therefore how much
31:51
revenue are you willing to share?
31:53
SPEAKER_01: So for Steema, we have been very consistent in the last five years.
31:57
We've given a return,
31:57
as I've mentioned,
31:59
of 15% on the dividends without fame.
32:01
Paid the same day,
32:02
an 11% return on the interest rebate,
32:05
which are the deposits.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: Again, paid the very same day.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: We'll keep on doing this.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: I know there are discussions internally.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: We'll keep on having that.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: There are discussions of, is this a fair assessment?
32:15
SPEAKER_01: Let's look at the kind of business that's generated.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Are we able to pay more?
32:18
But luckily,
32:18
in the last five years or so,
32:20
we've been able to pay the same rate.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: And waiting for our AGM to come.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: So without busting the bubble,
32:26
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to get anyone excited,
32:27
SPEAKER_01: but there are good things coming up as we approach the AGM.
32:30
But importantly for STEAMR,
32:32
we have been in existence for the last 50 years.
32:34
We need to ensure that whatever we provide to our members is
32:38
sustainable and we
32:39
SPEAKER_01: shall be here for another 50 years to come.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: So for us, that's also very key.
32:43
As we look at things and as we go into that discussion on financials,
32:46
we'll be talking about
32:47
SPEAKER_01: the kind of ratios that you expected to keep,
32:49
SPEAKER_01: just like the banking sector is supposed to keep,
32:51
SPEAKER_01: just like CBK is demanding very strongly from the banks,
32:55
SPEAKER_01: what is it that they're putting aside for a rainy day?
32:58
SPEAKER_01: Also,
32:58
SPEAKER_01: we in the circle sector,
33:00
SPEAKER_01: through SASRA,
33:00
SPEAKER_01: is a very tough regulator and asks very tough questions.
33:04
Are we being sustainable in the kind of rewards that you're
33:07
giving back to our membership?
33:08
SPEAKER_01: I hope Mokai have managed to answer that question.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes,
33:11
but you've also introduced some interesting aspects that people
33:15
should definitely
33:16
SPEAKER_00: pay attention to.
33:16
I think it's just generally financial markets don't always
33:19
chase the highest return.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: It's not always guaranteed that you will get those returns at the end.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: High returns also come with iris at the end of the day.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: So good to pay attention to that.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: But then again,
33:28
SPEAKER_00: as I note,
33:29
SPEAKER_00: perhaps a few weeks ago,
33:30
SPEAKER_00: the regulator also,
33:32
I think Corporate CS was also complaining about Subcircos
33:36
borrowing money to
33:37
SPEAKER_00: actually pay dividends.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any comments on that?
33:40
I know it may not be applying specifically to you,
33:42
but it's just a general comment.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I do have a comment.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: No, it doesn't apply to Steve Masako.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: We do not borrow to pay dividends.
33:49
We pay dividends purely from our reserves and the profits that
33:53
we've made,
33:53
SPEAKER_01: which is the right thing to do.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: If you've made a profit at the end of the year,
33:57
SPEAKER_01: remember interest tribute is an expenditure item.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: So it is purely paid from your top lines as part of the expenditure.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: And at the end result, you must have made an income from it.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: And then dividends is now paid as part of the reserves,
34:11
SPEAKER_01: whatever you put aside in terms of our net profit,
34:14
SPEAKER_01: after income tax and the like.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: We do not, and we have never paid off from borrowing.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: It's a bad habit.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: In fact, it's an unsafe habit.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: And I do only 100% agree with the comments of the cabinet secretary.
34:28
And I think guidelines have been issued out that subcos that do
34:31
not have money to
34:32
SPEAKER_01: pay out either interest or dividends,
34:34
SPEAKER_01: then they should not borrow to actually do that.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: That is digging a hole.
34:38
At what rate would you be borrowing from a financial
34:41
institution like a bank?
34:42
SPEAKER_01: Look at the bank rates currently.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: You're talking at a rate of between 20 and 24% in the banking sector.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: So if you're borrowing at 20 to 24%,
34:52
SPEAKER_01: borrowing this money,
34:53
what is that income that you're generating that is above 24%
34:56
for you to start
34:57
SPEAKER_01: declaring a dividend payout to a member.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: So for Steema, we don't borrow.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: We only borrow strategically.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: The only borrowing we have is a very small amount of money.
35:07
And that is because of what I mentioned,
35:08
the Kenya Mortgage Refinance Company.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: They led to us at very low rates, single-digit trends.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: This money is coming from the World Bank and is coming from the IFC.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: And from there, we're able to offer a single-digit loan.
35:22
So we're offering a loan of 9% to 9.5% on a reducing balance
35:27
with that duration of time.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: That's the only borrowing we have.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: It's a very strategic borrowing, but no other.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: If anything,
35:32
the amount of money that Stephen Sarko keeps in the banking
35:35
sector is way,
35:37
SPEAKER_01: way more than any amount that you can potentially borrow.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: So at the end of every quarter,
35:42
we have a lot of the banks that are actually knocking at one
35:45
doors because we do
35:46
SPEAKER_01: have the highest liquidity ratio in the industry.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: I think we closed it above 90% last year.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: That's on liquidity ratio.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: And liquidity that is required is about 15% or so.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: So for circles like steam,
35:57
SPEAKER_01: that has never been an issue,
35:58
SPEAKER_01: but just to answer your question is I do agree with the CS.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: Circles should never borrow to be able to pay dividends.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: I second that.
36:06
And I think it's a serious red flag for someone to be borrowing
36:10
to pay dividends.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: They're borrowing, as you say, at 20 to 30% to pay something at 12%.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: So I don't think it's worthwhile.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: Let me back to you again.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: In terms of loans and loans eligibility,
36:19
I want to tackle that one before maybe we tackle a few
36:22
questions from the audience.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: I should say this is one of the very highly attended spaces.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of questions for you today.
36:28
We may need to shed in on other spaces at another point in time
36:31
to tackle as many
36:32
SPEAKER_00: questions as possible.
36:33
There's a lot of interest in circles generally,
36:36
in Stimber circles specifically.
36:38
So it's very good that you keep handling members' questions and
36:41
those who are
36:42
SPEAKER_00: interested in this space.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: So back to you, how do I take a loan?
36:45
SPEAKER_00: from Steamer Circle.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: Once I become a member, how long do I need?
36:48
SPEAKER_00: What are some of the eligibility criteria?
36:51
SPEAKER_00: I've had the issue of guarantors.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: How many do I need there?
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: So maybe you can handle that for us.
36:56
Typically,
36:57
there are a couple of things that we look at in terms of eligibility.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: Let us just start with the lending.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: Lending is about knowing your customer.
37:05
Knowing your member is about how long you have known one
37:08
another so that we're able
37:10
SPEAKER_01: to lend to you.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: So typically,
37:12
what we hear in Stima Circle is that you must have been an
37:15
active member of the
37:16
circle for a period of at least three months if you are an
37:20
individual member.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: So we need to know each other for three months,
37:24
typically so that we can see what kind of money are you putting
37:27
into the circle?
37:28
SPEAKER_01: What are your needs and the like?
37:30
SPEAKER_01: And for corporate, these are for chambers and companies and groups.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: This,
37:35
we normally ask them that they need to be with us for at least
37:38
six months as a
37:39
SPEAKER_01: corporate member.
37:40
Additionally,
37:41
we do request that you fulfill some very specific requirements
37:45
of the loans.
37:46
Now,
37:47
the first one,
37:47
remember,
37:48
we started by saying savings and credit cooperative.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: And we have the member deposit and the shares.
37:54
So you must be a person in good standing as far as the share
37:58
capital is concerned,
37:59
SPEAKER_01: as far as the deposits are concerned.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: So the deposits, typically, you can borrow between three to five times.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: But like I've mentioned, we do have loans that go up to 10 times.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: So that becomes a very key motivation for you to sell on a monthly basis.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: We look at how much your capital you have with us.
38:16
Depending on the level of share capital,
38:18
you might access some non-products.
38:20
There are others where you might ask you to add a bid on your
38:22
share capital.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: But typically, we utilize the member's deposit as a multiplier.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: The second bid, we also look at the debt to income ratio.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: This is very key.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: It's a law in Kenya that you cannot exceed.
38:35
And this was a guideline by CBK that was actually incorporated
38:40
also by our
38:40
SPEAKER_01: regulator of the Incasera.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: And this guideline is very simple.
38:44
When you look at the monthly loan installments that you're
38:47
making currently,
38:48
SPEAKER_01: it cannot go beyond two-thirds of your net income.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: So you must go home with something.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: It's what we call a hard rule.
38:56
So one-third of whatever net money you have,
38:59
that money,
39:00
you need to go home with it.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: So even as we look at you,
39:03
SPEAKER_01: therefore,
39:04
SPEAKER_01: we look at that debt to income ratio,
39:06
SPEAKER_01: and we need to demonstrate that we are not overbanding you.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: Because remember, we're not in the business of profit.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: We're in the business of giving you accessible loans.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: So we're looking at ensuring that you do not end up overborrowing.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: So that's one part.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: That's the purpose of that.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: To ensure that you do not end up, for lack of a better word, with loans.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: So you need to breathe.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Even as you're paying off your loans,
39:30
you must have something that you're able to take back home for
39:33
your own need.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: The other element is around proof of income.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: That's still under the debt to income ratio, under this repairability.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: So you look at things like your pay slips.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: If your money is passing through the circle,
39:45
SPEAKER_01: we'll just be able to look at how your salary is coming in.
39:48
If you have a business,
39:49
we'll look at things like your business settlements.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: We'll look at contracts, if you have contracts.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: If,
39:54
SPEAKER_01: say,
39:54
SPEAKER_01: you have a building,
39:55
we'll look at how much income is coming from the rent that is
39:58
actually coming about.
40:00
All of this is to demonstrate the ability that you have to
40:03
repay the loan within
40:05
SPEAKER_01: the grid period.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: And we're there to advise you.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: We're here as your financial coach.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: It's not about just lending to you, but really asking the hard questions.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: Do you truly need to even borrow this money?
40:15
SPEAKER_01: Is there a better facility for you to have than the ones that are there?
40:19
SPEAKER_01: Then comes the issue of security.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: There are two kinds of security.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: For circles, typically you have a guarantorship.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: The guarantorship model is a very simple one.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: It's whereby you look for,
40:30
SPEAKER_01: say,
40:30
SPEAKER_01: five to seven people,
40:32
SPEAKER_01: depending on the kind of loan that you have.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: And these people know you,
40:36
they are members of the circle and they're able to guarantee
40:39
you because typically
40:41
SPEAKER_01: you might not have a security that you can utilize.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: So people always ask me, but hey, we have an open bond.
40:48
It's very easy to say if you're working in a company and people
40:52
in that company and
40:53
there's people in this company and members of the circle and
40:55
therefore they
40:56
SPEAKER_01: co-guarantee one another.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: I totally agree on that.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: But there are many other things you also look at.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: There is also self-guarantee,
41:02
SPEAKER_01: whereby depending on the amount of money you have,
41:04
SPEAKER_01: you can utilize up to 90% of that to guarantee yourself.
41:08
So that you're utilizing your deposits to guarantee a loan that
41:11
you're taking.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: Typically, a normal loan is 12%.
41:14
Remember,
41:15
I mentioned we give out 11% for those deposits that you're
41:18
having with us.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: The effective rate is about 1% or so.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: Because still,
41:23
you're using the same money that you are guaranteeing the
41:26
payment of 11% or so to
41:28
SPEAKER_01: give a loan of children.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: So if you do the difference,
41:31
then it is only the difference of money between what you're
41:34
paying you and what
41:35
SPEAKER_01: you're borrowing that you're actually paying out.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: So apart from that,
41:39
SPEAKER_01: there are other elements regarding grantors like a pension,
41:43
SPEAKER_01: but also collateral,
41:44
SPEAKER_01: just keyword loans.
41:46
You see all these adverts,
41:47
people saying asset financing,
41:49
mortgages,
41:50
they require collateral.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: So if you have land,
41:52
SPEAKER_01: if you have a vehicle,
41:55
SPEAKER_01: if you have fixed deposits somewhere,
41:57
SPEAKER_01: if you have money in the bonds,
41:59
All of that we're able to utilize as a security to actually
42:03
give you a loan if you
42:04
SPEAKER_01: want to move away from the utilization of the grant that you want.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: Also importantly is about your credit history.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: This is a big thing.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: If you're a member with a positive repayment record,
42:16
SPEAKER_01: you're most likely to get higher amounts.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: It's not that we don't give to those who are negatively listed.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: Those,
42:21
SPEAKER_01: yes,
42:22
SPEAKER_01: they may face rejection,
42:23
SPEAKER_01: but at one point in time,
42:24
SPEAKER_01: somebody could have been negatively listed.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: But as long as you have corrected that,
42:28
SPEAKER_01: then you can still come back and be able to get a facility.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: Or even if you're negatively listed,
42:33
then probably would ask you to bring in additional security
42:36
because you're not here
42:37
SPEAKER_01: to reject people.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: Just because one time something could have happened to you,
42:41
SPEAKER_01: could have lost your job,
42:42
SPEAKER_01: your income could have reduced.
42:43
So you should not be punished for having at least once in my life,
42:47
defaulted in a facility.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: And the last point is about, are you a regular saber?
42:52
SPEAKER_01: Are you regularly contributing?
42:54
SPEAKER_01: If you look at your transaction history,
42:57
that in itself enables us to quickly judge what kind of loan to
43:01
actually provide to you.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: The kind of loan products, like I've mentioned, there are very many.
43:06
You have business loans,
43:07
you have development loans,
43:08
you have mobile loans.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: Mobile loans do not necessarily go through all I've mentioned.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: Mobile loans, typically within two minutes or a minute or less.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: If you qualify,
43:17
SPEAKER_01: less than a minute or so,
43:18
SPEAKER_01: you should be able to go to our Empower Loan platform.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: Get a loan product that is either a day-based loan.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: We have those.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: We have a loan called Funika.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: It's a day-based loan.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: So for example, gassing ipotea kwenyeomba.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: I guess there is no money to buy the gas,
43:37
SPEAKER_01: ama ni steamer imekatua,
43:39
SPEAKER_01: hakuna pesa ya kulipa yo steamer.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Very quickly,
43:41
SPEAKER_01: you can be able to say,
43:42
SPEAKER_01: kama ifunika,
43:43
SPEAKER_01: ya ibu kidogo too,
43:45
SPEAKER_01: so that I'm able to actually do what needs to be done.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: And immediately,
43:49
SPEAKER_01: you're able to be given a loan,
43:50
SPEAKER_01: even when your account does not have any money,
43:53
SPEAKER_01: your prime account does not have any money.
43:56
Apart from that,
43:56
we do have other day-based loans,
43:59
monthly loans,
43:59
one month,
44:00
two months,
44:01
three.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: And the rates range between 4% to 7% up to six months.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: Again, these are meant to be emergency loans.
44:08
Please note that these loans are not meant to be loans that are
44:12
typically your main
44:14
SPEAKER_01: source of funding.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: They're supposed to be emergency.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: On a mobile loan, you could have been involved in accidents somewhere.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: Then you're seeking a loan.
44:23
We can be able to provide up to 120,000 as an emergency
44:28
facility for you to actually euthanize.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: But those, as I've mentioned, do not typically...
44:32
SPEAKER_01: require either a guarantor,
44:34
SPEAKER_01: they do not require security,
44:36
they only require the behavioral trend that you see of you as a
44:40
member in terms of
44:40
how much deposit have you put with us and how often have you
44:44
been utilizing the
44:45
SPEAKER_01: services that you do have.
44:46
So you have a scoring criteria or a scoring tool that you're
44:49
able to use for that.
44:51
Really positive feedback I'm receiving on circles and
44:54
specifically similar circles.
44:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to see the members.
44:57
Sometimes they disappear from circles and all,
45:00
and then they're left bearing the burden.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: How do you mitigate that?
45:03
Any advice for many years in the circle business on how to work
45:07
out that also in
45:08
terms of loans so that you don't get penalties and all those
45:11
kinds of things.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: How do you manage that as a circle?
45:14
So how do you work with a member once the issues they face in
45:17
terms of repayments?
45:19
One thing that we need to advise any of our members,
45:22
do not guarantee somebody you do not know.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: That's number one.
45:26
SPEAKER_01: No one should ever bring you a form and say,
45:28
SPEAKER_01: you know what,
45:29
SPEAKER_01: I know somebody somewhere and he needs a grant for any reason,
45:33
SPEAKER_01: whether it is an inducement to actually guarantee that person,
45:38
SPEAKER_01: no.
45:39
And not just that,
45:40
if say,
45:41
you know,
45:41
people around you have a bad character.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: Do not guarantee them.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: If you know that,
45:48
SPEAKER_01: and let me use an officer,
45:49
if you know there is an individual in the office that is known
45:53
to borrow from the
45:54
SPEAKER_01: other person around and he never repairs,
45:57
SPEAKER_01: then it's the person who comes to you and says,
45:59
SPEAKER_01: can you guarantee me?
46:00
SPEAKER_01: Please say no.
46:01
SPEAKER_01: You have the power of saying no.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: You should never be forced to guarantee at all.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: No one should use their position to say,
46:08
probably I'm your boss and guarantee me and you're quiet and
46:11
guarantee them.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: That is wrong.
46:13
SPEAKER_01: If somebody yakuna mkono mrefu na mepatikana kuma scandal huku nakule,
46:18
SPEAKER_01: then that person already,
46:19
SPEAKER_01: you know,
46:19
SPEAKER_01: you need to do your own KYC on them.
46:22
SPEAKER_01: Say no, don't guarantee that.
46:24
SPEAKER_01: So guarantee is not an obligation.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: You're not obligated to guarantee anyone.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: Only guarantee the people that you know very well,
46:33
SPEAKER_01: you know where to find them,
46:34
SPEAKER_01: probably their families,
46:36
SPEAKER_01: something about them,
46:37
SPEAKER_01: their character.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: Because guarantorship is about character.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: And guarantorship is a good model.
46:42
SPEAKER_01: It's a good model because,
46:44
SPEAKER_01: especially for the young people,
46:46
SPEAKER_01: when you're still young,
46:47
SPEAKER_01: you have not bought a car,
46:48
SPEAKER_01: you don't have a house,
46:49
SPEAKER_01: you have no collateral to give.
46:51
SPEAKER_01: So how do you expect these people to borrow from us?
46:53
They can only borrow if they can come together within a safe
46:57
environment of having
46:58
SPEAKER_01: identified one another and say,
46:59
SPEAKER_01: you know what?
47:00
SPEAKER_01: I can co-guarantee for this person.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: But also guarantee something that you're waiting to lose.
47:05
SPEAKER_01: Don't forget.
47:06
SPEAKER_01: And that's correct as a member has actually said.
47:08
If there's a default,
47:10
you'd be expected to pay that loan,
47:11
a portion of that loan.
47:13
SPEAKER_01: So if the five of you have guaranteed somebody,
47:16
SPEAKER_01: one loan has taken 100K,
47:17
SPEAKER_01: all of you are severally liable to pay off that facility.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: And therefore,
47:22
SPEAKER_01: you need to ask yourself,
47:23
am I willing to lose this amount of money that this person is
47:27
actually borrowing?
47:28
SPEAKER_01: So ask those hard questions before you seek for a guarantor.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: The model is not banned at all.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: I have seen families that have grown on the guarantorship model.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: The patriarch joins.
47:39
SPEAKER_01: The patriarch introduces the matriarch into the circle.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: The matriarch introduces the children.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: The children have married.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: They have their own spouses.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: All of them come together and say, you know what?
47:49
SPEAKER_01: At least I know this is either my parents.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: I know this is my sibling.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: I know this person.
47:55
SPEAKER_01: And I can be able to guarantee them.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: And they're able to guarantee one another without security.
48:00
I've seen them grow themselves and do marvelous things and
48:03
marvelous investment.
48:05
SPEAKER_01: So the model is a good model.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: However, it has a couple of weaknesses.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: And one of the weaknesses,
48:10
SPEAKER_01: if you end up guaranteeing somebody who,
48:14
SPEAKER_01: and like I've said,
48:14
SPEAKER_01: in terms of their habits,
48:16
SPEAKER_01: in terms of who they are,
48:18
SPEAKER_01: these are people who already
48:20
SPEAKER_01: In terms of knowing them, you know that this person is not going to pay.
48:23
SPEAKER_01: Please do not guarantee.
48:25
SPEAKER_01: You're better off coming in and saying,
48:27
I'd rather self-guarantee myself or I'd rather hustle and
48:31
utilize either securities,
48:33
SPEAKER_01: the small securities I do have.
48:35
SPEAKER_01: You can be able to look at them, whichever securities that you do have.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: Better still,
48:40
SPEAKER_01: I'd rather save some money and then from the savings,
48:43
SPEAKER_01: I tend to think I can be able to utilize that,
48:45
to be able to either grow myself directly from the kind of
48:49
earnings I'm making.
48:50
The only thing that I keep on insisting that you need to walk
48:53
that journey of
48:54
SPEAKER_01: typically starting from yourself,
48:56
SPEAKER_01: of knowing the people you're guaranteeing.
48:59
SPEAKER_01: And as I've mentioned,
49:00
SPEAKER_01: the moment they default,
49:01
SPEAKER_01: definitely indeed,
49:02
SPEAKER_01: you will be liable for the payment of those loans.
49:04
SPEAKER_01: Having said that though,
49:06
We do have a responsibility as a circle and our
49:08
responsibilities are many.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: Number one,
49:11
we will go after the initial principal owner to make sure that
49:15
they pay off this loan.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: We have debt collectors who will go after this principal owner.
49:19
SPEAKER_01: We have a panel of more than 40 debt collectors.
49:22
Their role is to go after that and to find out why are these
49:26
people actually paying?
49:27
SPEAKER_01: We do send reminders via SMS.
49:30
SPEAKER_01: We make calls.
49:31
SPEAKER_01: We make emails.
49:32
We can even be able to go back to this principal person just to
49:35
find out why are
49:36
SPEAKER_01: they being delinquent?
49:37
Are we able to have a structured recovery process from them so
49:41
that we're able to
49:41
SPEAKER_01: minimize defaults,
49:42
including requesting them to come to us to restructure some of
49:46
their facilities?
49:47
SPEAKER_01: And we've done this before.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: And I remember during
49:50
SPEAKER_01: The COVID era,
49:50
SPEAKER_01: we gave a moratorium,
49:52
SPEAKER_01: I remember,
49:52
of interest in principle of more than a billion commissioning
49:55
just to enable people
49:56
to be able to restructure so that we can be able to reduce
49:59
their financial hardship
50:00
SPEAKER_01: whereby they can be able to renegotiate the repayment terms,
50:03
SPEAKER_01: extend the non-tenures and maybe perhaps also reduce monthly payments.
50:07
So if you're the principal who is actually defaulting,
50:10
there are options for you.
50:11
You can be able to come back to us and have a discussion before
50:15
we end up going
50:16
SPEAKER_01: after the guarantors.
50:17
And mostly importantly for us is that we also list defaulters
50:21
on the credit difference with you.
50:22
SPEAKER_01: What that means is until and when this person,
50:25
SPEAKER_01: the principal borrower,
50:26
SPEAKER_01: has actually paid back the money,
50:28
they'll always be listed on the CRP so that we do not have a
50:31
scenario whereby the
50:33
SPEAKER_01: guarantors are paid off the money,
50:34
SPEAKER_01: but somebody is living large outside there with their money.
50:37
Having them listed actually assist us to make sure that they're
50:40
able to pay.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: But importantly,
50:42
SPEAKER_01: because we're a circle,
50:43
SPEAKER_01: like I've mentioned,
50:44
SPEAKER_01: ours is about empowering,
50:46
SPEAKER_01: it's about financial coaching,
50:47
SPEAKER_01: financial education,
50:48
SPEAKER_01: financial inclusivity.
50:50
We are looking at having and encouraging a very positive loan
50:53
repayment culture.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: So how can we encourage and how can we educate you to become financially
50:59
sustainable and to encourage you to responsibly borrow by
51:03
offering you very
51:04
SPEAKER_01: realistic loan limits?
51:06
SPEAKER_01: So if you don't qualify, don't take it badly.
51:08
SPEAKER_01: Probably it's because we're looking at where you are and saying,
51:11
SPEAKER_01: is this really sustainable for yourself?
51:13
SPEAKER_01: We also offer you financial counseling.
51:15
SPEAKER_01: You can come to any of our branches.
51:17
SPEAKER_01: We'll have a discussion around you whenever you have membership.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: You're facing difficulty in terms of repaying.
51:22
SPEAKER_01: And of course, we'll reward you if you're a good borrower.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: You get better loan terms.
51:27
SPEAKER_01: And of course, master approvals as well.
51:29
SPEAKER_01: So it is something that we keep on maintaining.
51:31
SPEAKER_01: It is a requirement to have a healthy loan book on our side.
51:33
SPEAKER_01: But also importantly,
51:34
it's important for us to engage with our members and ensure
51:38
that we also mitigate
51:39
them from unnecessary borrowing so that they can be able to
51:42
grow into something better.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: We've extensively covered as many topics as possible.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: So I want to switch a bit to a few questions that I've received.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: One is on the persistently niggling issue,
51:53
SPEAKER_00: which is exiting circles and how it's difficult sometimes to transfer.
51:58
SPEAKER_00: One person here says they belong to a different circle.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: Now they are still a circle, but they belong to a different circle.
52:03
But when they left and withdrew their deposits,
52:06
their shares are still stuck there.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: And if they have to sell, they have to sell a very steep discount.
52:11
So he's wishing there was a system to transfer shares across
52:13
circles at par value.
52:15
SPEAKER_00: What do you make of that?
52:16
SPEAKER_00: I know there have been a couple of propositions.
52:18
What's the state in the industry currently in terms of
52:21
transferring shares?
52:22
SPEAKER_01: That's a very good question that has been put forward.
52:25
SPEAKER_01: And I hear and I feel the member.
52:27
SPEAKER_01: Typically, let's go back to the very beginning.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: There has to be disclosure by every circle when you join the circle.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: There are two very important disclosures.
52:36
Disclosure number one,
52:38
your shares are not refundable,
52:39
but they are transferable.
52:41
SPEAKER_01: So if you have shares in a circle,
52:42
SPEAKER_01: correctly ascended,
52:44
SPEAKER_01: those shares,
52:44
SPEAKER_01: you cannot come and say,
52:46
SPEAKER_01: refund me the shares.
52:48
Those shares will always be part and parcel of the share of
52:51
capital of that circle.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: And that is by law and by regulation.
52:55
SPEAKER_01: However, those shares can be transferred.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: So you can opt to do two things.
52:59
SPEAKER_01: You can decide,
53:00
SPEAKER_01: number one,
53:01
SPEAKER_01: these shares that I do have,
53:02
SPEAKER_01: and I've seen that a lot with our members,
53:04
SPEAKER_01: a member would put 10 million,
53:05
SPEAKER_01: 20 million,
53:06
SPEAKER_01: 25 million in share capital.
53:09
But they know very well at the tail end of it,
53:12
that money is not going to be funded to them.
53:15
SPEAKER_01: What's going to happen is twofold.
53:17
SPEAKER_01: Firstly,
53:17
SPEAKER_01: if you had to look at Swarizaku with Simasaku,
53:19
SPEAKER_01: giving a return of 15% every financial year.
53:23
If you had to take a calculator and you can calculate how many
53:27
years does it take
53:28
SPEAKER_01: you to get back your principal money?
53:30
SPEAKER_01: So about six and a half years.
53:33
By six and a half years,
53:34
you have received back the money that you invested in the circle.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: And moving forward,
53:38
SPEAKER_01: and I do have members who have been with us for up to 50 years,
53:41
SPEAKER_01: it means you continue enjoying that.
53:43
And for the members who have done this,
53:44
they do this almost like a pension.
53:46
SPEAKER_01: It's whereby you're saying, I'm keeping money aside very long term.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: It's money that I know I'm being forced to sell in the circle.
53:54
SPEAKER_01: I will not get this money refunded.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: However,
53:56
I am keeping it as a pension so that by the time I turn 50 or
53:59
60 years of age,
54:01
SPEAKER_01: I have money that can be able to push me forward for another 50 years.
54:04
SPEAKER_01: And you know what happens in Kenya?
54:06
SPEAKER_01: The moment Kazi Naisha, you have got nothing.
54:09
You can just look at the lifespan of a majority of Kenya who
54:12
have left employment.
54:13
SPEAKER_01: And this is what we're going to cure by saying,
54:15
SPEAKER_01: therefore you can use the circle as a pension scheme whereby
54:19
SPEAKER_01: Every year,
54:19
SPEAKER_01: you're going to get your money in terms of a return,
54:22
SPEAKER_01: a paycheck in terms of the dividends.
54:24
So correctly stated,
54:26
in North Circle in Kenya,
54:27
are you going to refunded back your shares?
54:29
SPEAKER_01: Because the shares are there as a long-term investment in the circle.
54:33
SPEAKER_01: However, you can choose to say, in case, God forbid, I do pass away,
54:37
SPEAKER_01: These are the shares that I want to be with my kids.
54:40
SPEAKER_01: I have seen others after investing so much for so many years,
54:44
SPEAKER_01: before they have actually passed away,
54:45
SPEAKER_01: they have distributed a portion of their shares to their children,
54:49
SPEAKER_01: to their wives,
54:50
SPEAKER_01: to their mothers,
54:51
SPEAKER_01: you name it.
54:51
SPEAKER_01: The best thing you can give somebody is an ability to make income.
54:54
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to be giving handouts to people.
54:56
SPEAKER_01: You want to show somebody how to make money.
54:59
SPEAKER_01: The best thing is to showcase to people how money can work for you.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: And the share of capital is a classic example of that.
55:05
SPEAKER_01: We in the circle work.
55:06
We pay you a dividend,
55:08
and that is like the income that you'd be getting from it.
55:11
SPEAKER_01: These shares,
55:11
SPEAKER_01: therefore,
55:12
SPEAKER_01: by law,
55:13
SPEAKER_01: are not,
55:13
SPEAKER_01: again,
55:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm repeating,
55:15
SPEAKER_01: are not refundable,
55:16
SPEAKER_01: but you can transfer them.
55:17
SPEAKER_01: You can also opt to sell them.
55:19
SPEAKER_01: Circles and Extima, we have what is called the OTC.
55:22
SPEAKER_01: It's our trading platform.
55:23
SPEAKER_01: You can walk into any of our branches.
55:26
And from there,
55:27
you can be able to provide the shares that you either want to
55:30
buy or to sell.
55:31
SPEAKER_01: So we have a ready market for that.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: We have individuals who are willing to send shares.
55:35
SPEAKER_01: individuals who are willing to buy shares.
55:37
SPEAKER_01: I must confess that before we did the OTC,
55:40
SPEAKER_01: these shares were being sold at even 50% discount,
55:43
SPEAKER_01: 45%,
55:43
SPEAKER_01: 65% discount.
55:44
But first we put the OTC in place,
55:48
I assume the discount rate is about 3% to 5%.
55:50
So if your share was worth 100 bob,
55:52
probably you could sell it at 95 bob,
55:55
98 bob.
55:56
SPEAKER_01: It depends with a willing buyer and a willing seller.
55:58
SPEAKER_01: But at least it's not bad off because like I've mentioned,
56:01
we'd have earned some of this money in terms of the returns
56:03
that you've given you.
56:04
The second disclosure is on the deposits that I've talked about,
56:08
the monthly deposits.
56:09
SPEAKER_01: Those monthly deposits are indeed withdrawal.
56:12
SPEAKER_01: You can be able to withdraw them.
56:14
However,
56:14
the catch around it,
56:16
by law,
56:16
you can withdraw them by giving a 60-day notice.
56:19
SPEAKER_01: So you give 60 days notice and say, I'm withdrawing.
56:22
SPEAKER_01: And within 60 days, you must get your money back.
56:25
It's the same way we normally give even before the 60 days have
56:28
actually expired.
56:29
And we also have a way whereby if you want this money
56:32
immediately for a very small fee,
56:33
there's a charge that will be given to you and immediately you
56:36
can be able to get
56:36
SPEAKER_01: this money.
56:37
And at no time have we had a scenario that we've never
56:41
transferred the money back
56:42
SPEAKER_01: to where it's supposed to be given for those.
56:45
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, we may exit for whatever reason.
56:47
SPEAKER_01: The exit could be Kazimisha, Jobimisha.
56:50
SPEAKER_01: You've got a green card.
56:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if the new trunk...
56:53
SPEAKER_01: That's how that's meant to be.
56:54
But I have people who have been able to leave the country and
56:58
they're saying,
56:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to continue.
57:00
Although we do tell them to continue being our members because
57:02
you do have a lot of
57:03
SPEAKER_01: members in the diaspora.
57:04
SPEAKER_01: But there could be myriads of issues why you need this money back.
57:07
SPEAKER_01: At Stimasako, it always takes you money.
57:09
SPEAKER_01: Now, from a circle perspective, we are not there yet.
57:13
We would have wished to have a platform whereby you can
57:16
transfer money from one
57:17
SPEAKER_01: circle to another.
57:18
But I need also to confess to you and the listeners that
57:21
there's a lot of pushback
57:23
SPEAKER_01: that is also happening.
57:24
I think the pushback is because we are a large circle,
57:27
very large,
57:27
our asset base is more than
57:30
SPEAKER_01: 66 billion in size.
57:31
SPEAKER_01: There's a genuine fear that if a trading platform was put,
57:35
probably bigger circles like ours might be able to benefit at
57:38
the expense of a
57:39
SPEAKER_01: smaller circle.
57:40
SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of education probably that needs to be done,
57:43
especially around small circles so that they do not fear having
57:46
a trading platform.
57:47
SPEAKER_01: And also in terms of law, there's no regulation around so far.
57:51
SPEAKER_01: Unlike the shares that you might have on the Nairobi Security Exchange,
57:55
there's no platform currency that you do have that you can be
57:58
able to trade with
57:59
SPEAKER_00: one another.
58:00
SPEAKER_01: But we are hopeful that in future we can be able to have that.
58:03
SPEAKER_01: But in the short run,
58:04
for me in Timasako is to ensure that our over-the-counter
58:07
trading platform is automated.
58:09
SPEAKER_01: We're in the process of actually doing that.
58:10
It's one of our key deliverables in our new strategy for the
58:13
next five years.
58:14
And we are hoping to make it just easier for you as a member to
58:17
be able to gain access
58:19
SPEAKER_01: to your share capital and also to gain access to your deposits.
58:22
SPEAKER_00: Now,
58:22
maybe just quickly give us a brief overview of how financial
58:26
circles look like,
58:28
SPEAKER_00: particularly yours.
58:28
SPEAKER_00: I know yours, the FY24 results should be out soon.
58:31
SPEAKER_00: If they're not out,
58:32
SPEAKER_00: think closer to the AGM,
58:33
SPEAKER_00: which is around 5th March,
58:35
SPEAKER_00: if I remember that correctly.
58:36
SPEAKER_00: That's when the results should be out.
58:38
SPEAKER_00: But perhaps based on some of the recent numbers that you have,
58:41
SPEAKER_00: I know the asset base is around $60 billion.
58:43
I think that's almost the blue regulations from CBK on banks is
58:46
that the core
58:47
capital needs to be around 10 billion and comparing it to your
58:50
asset base alone,
58:51
SPEAKER_00: that's almost six X.
58:52
SPEAKER_00: And you guys are quite big as an institution,
58:55
SPEAKER_00: I would say.
58:56
SPEAKER_00: So in that regard,
58:56
take us maybe through a few numbers that's maybe top of your
59:00
head about Steema
59:01
SPEAKER_00: Circle and how big you are.
59:04
SPEAKER_01: I cannot disclose much because,
59:05
SPEAKER_01: like you correctly stated,
59:06
SPEAKER_01: there's an AGM coming,
59:08
SPEAKER_01: I think,
59:08
SPEAKER_01: by around just March 14th.
59:10
There's still discussions in terms of when the AGM is going to be,
59:15
maybe earlier than that.
59:16
We're looking at the modalities and the requirements from the
59:19
regulator of B2B at the end.
59:21
SPEAKER_01: But I can generally say this.
59:23
SPEAKER_01: Number one, we hand our budget for the year.
59:26
SPEAKER_01: And we managed to surpass our budget, our total assets.
59:30
SPEAKER_01: We had budgeted for 66 billion in asset base.
59:35
SPEAKER_01: We have surpassed the target that we bought.
59:37
SPEAKER_01: We had a target of income of about 9.9 billion shennings.
59:42
SPEAKER_01: That we've also surpassed it.
59:43
SPEAKER_01: We had a target of retained earnings.
59:46
SPEAKER_01: We are way surpassed that as well.
59:48
SPEAKER_01: In terms of all the key indices,
59:51
SPEAKER_01: including the share of capital,
59:53
SPEAKER_01: we've actually surpassed over 100.
59:54
SPEAKER_01: So it's been a good year in the circle.
59:56
SPEAKER_01: We've had a very, very good run for the year.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_01: It's not been an easy year if you have to do macro environment.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_01: But when we look at our revenue stream,
1:00:05
SPEAKER_01: currently 78% of that revenue stream is derived from interest income,
1:00:10
SPEAKER_01: like the loans that you're giving out.
1:00:12
We have more than 80% of that,
1:00:14
whereby we've managed to get money from investment income.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_01: We do have insurance,
1:00:19
SPEAKER_01: I've talked about,
1:00:20
SPEAKER_01: or 2.3% of that comes from actually insurance income,
1:00:24
SPEAKER_01: and the rest is a transaction income.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_01: So on all of those instances, we have done very well.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_01: It's been a good year and a good run for the institution.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_01: In the last five years, generally, have been good.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_01: Even when you look back from the time of COVID.
1:00:37
SPEAKER_01: In the COVID year, we almost met our targets.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_01: I think we are off maybe 3% or 4%.
1:00:43
But post-COVID,
1:00:44
in the year 2023,
1:00:44
in the year 2024,
1:00:45
we're seeing a very vibrant institution.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_01: Now, let's talk about two maybe key things I'd like to point out.
1:00:54
The first one is generally around what we mentioned,
1:00:58
which is the aspect of co-capital.
1:00:59
And correctly,
1:01:00
as stated,
1:01:01
the CBIC gave direction around institutions,
1:01:05
meeting banks in general.
1:01:07
Initially,
1:01:07
a few years ago,
1:01:08
the banks were required to ensure that they have a co-capital
1:01:11
of 1B.
1:01:12
And last year,
1:01:13
there was a clamor to have that involved to about 5 billion shillings.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_01: And then later on now, it was about two years ago, sorry, 5B.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_01: And then now it's about 10 billion trillion.
1:01:25
SPEAKER_01: You do recall the kind of heat it generated.
1:01:28
And I remember it even went to parliament,
1:01:30
a lot of local workers,
1:01:31
the banking sector.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_01: So they are given, especially the smaller ones,
1:01:35
period of up to five to 10 years,
1:01:36
probably to be able to make these goods.
1:01:39
I'd like to point out that Stephen Shackle's core capital is
1:01:42
more than 13 billion Kenshinings,
1:01:45
SPEAKER_01: 13B.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_01: So whatever regulation that has been put forward for the banks by CBK,
1:01:51
SPEAKER_01: we achieved that a long time ago.
1:01:53
And indeed it is true,
1:01:54
right,
1:01:55
you should look at the size of our asset base.
1:01:58
At $66 billion in asset base,
1:02:01
we are larger than most of the banks in King.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_01: And Yusitima was about to be a tear kick in the country.
1:02:07
Having said that,
1:02:08
and I've always said that over and over again,
1:02:10
it has never been our desire.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_01: It has never been our wish.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_01: to be anything else apart from circle.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_01: We do believe,
1:02:17
SPEAKER_01: and we've gone outside the country to benchmark,
1:02:19
SPEAKER_01: going to Canada,
1:02:21
SPEAKER_01: going to the US,
1:02:22
SPEAKER_01: looking at circles that have more than 22 trillion in asset base.
1:02:27
The largest circle in Canada has about 7 trillion shillings in
1:02:30
asset base.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_01: And typically come back to Kenya,
1:02:33
SPEAKER_01: look at the biggest bank,
1:02:35
SPEAKER_01: slightly above one trillion in asset base.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_01: So it tells us that there's room for us to grow as a circle.
1:02:40
SPEAKER_01: So despite a very impressive numbers that we do have,
1:02:44
SPEAKER_01: despite very impressive in terms of our liquidity ratios,
1:02:47
despite having made all our key ratios that are put there in
1:02:51
terms of co-capital ratios,
1:02:53
SPEAKER_01: institutional income ratios,
1:02:55
as would have been expected for any large financial institution
1:02:58
including a bank,
1:02:59
SPEAKER_01: We still think that CSRCO is modern, quite modern.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_01: And we think in terms of the size that we are in,
1:03:05
SPEAKER_01: we are doing something that is very right and very good.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_01: And like I've mentioned, we're doing this for our members.
1:03:10
So we're excited to have grown to who we are or would not have
1:03:13
grown without
1:03:14
SPEAKER_01: 200,000 plus members that we currently have.
1:03:18
Each and every one of them has contributed a shilling here,
1:03:21
a shilling there.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_01: There are more than 220,650 members currently.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_01: who contribute to us,
1:03:27
SPEAKER_01: whatever amount of money that they contribute to us,
1:03:30
SPEAKER_01: and we are happy to have that kind of numbers.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_01: And we do expect,
1:03:34
SPEAKER_01: even as you come near the AGM,
1:03:36
to be able to give some very good news for our members who I
1:03:39
know are anticipating
1:03:40
SPEAKER_01: that final day that is going to come.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_01: In the sector in general, I also know what SACOs are doing generally.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_01: I have looked at the numbers of most of our peers in the industry.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_01: It is very healthy.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_01: When you look at the 20-80,
1:03:52
SPEAKER_01: especially the ones who control 80% of the industry,
1:03:56
SPEAKER_01: we are doing exemption on the island.
1:03:57
Maybe for disclosure purposes,
1:03:59
SACO as a deposit-taking SACO has a 7% step in the industry.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_01: So we control 7% of the total deposit-taking SACO.
1:04:07
Industry,
1:04:07
obviously,
1:04:08
basically,
1:04:08
you're looking at growing that to about 10%.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_01: You're also looking at growing to more than 120 billion shillings,
1:04:14
SPEAKER_01: probably in the next five years or so.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_01: As I'd mentioned to you,
1:04:17
SPEAKER_01: we do our strategic planning class,
1:04:19
and you're also looking at enhancing the kind of income that we
1:04:22
are growing
1:04:22
currently to something that is much larger and can be shared
1:04:25
with our members.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_01: The date is yet to be set, but anytime between 28th and 14th,
1:04:31
Again,
1:04:31
we're looking at the modernities and the clearance that we need
1:04:34
from the regulator.
1:04:35
SPEAKER_00: All right, looking forward.
1:04:36
SPEAKER_00: One more question here.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_00: Someone is asking, being in diaspora, could they join?
1:04:39
SPEAKER_01: And how?
1:04:41
SPEAKER_01: Oh, definitely.
1:04:42
We have very many diaspora members,
1:04:44
more than 6,000 members of the diaspora.
1:04:46
SPEAKER_01: The majority of them are in the U.S.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_01: We have very many members in Europe.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_01: We have members in Dubai, quite a big chunk of them.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_01: Actually, in every continent, we do have members.
1:04:58
We have members in South America,
1:04:59
China,
1:05:00
Australia,
1:05:01
many members around Africa.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_01: So yes, as a diaspora member, you're more than welcome to join the SAP.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_01: And all you need to do is just go to our website.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_01: You can be able to get the form that you'd be able to fill.
1:05:14
There's an email that is actually there or even a WhatsApp
1:05:17
platform that does exist
1:05:18
that you're able to ask any queries around and you'll be able
1:05:21
to guide you in terms
1:05:23
SPEAKER_01: of how to join.
1:05:24
And membership is just the same,
1:05:25
whether in the diaspora or here in Kenya.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_01: So the requirements I talked about in terms of membership,
1:05:31
SPEAKER_01: in terms of member deposits,
1:05:32
SPEAKER_01: in terms of the shareholding,
1:05:34
SPEAKER_01: in terms of the registration fee at Ubagui,
1:05:37
SPEAKER_01: whether you're in the diaspora or in Kenya,
1:05:39
SPEAKER_01: we treat you as equal.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_01: So feel free to join us.
1:05:42
I just ask you to go through to our website and you'd be able
1:05:46
to get all the
1:05:46
SPEAKER_01: details that you'd require to become a member of human student synthesis.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of questions,
1:05:51
so perhaps we'll organize our follow-up spaces to tackle a few
1:05:54
more questions.
1:05:54
There's generally a high interest in terms of circles and
1:05:57
understanding them a bit better.
1:05:58
I think it's interesting that someone is a member of a circle
1:06:01
and they didn't know
1:06:02
SPEAKER_00: some of these basics,
1:06:03
SPEAKER_00: so I think it's very nice to remind them once again what circles are.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_00: And perhaps you can do that as a result,
1:06:08
and then you can take us through maybe the financials and give
1:06:11
us a breakdown
1:06:12
SPEAKER_00: precisely on some of the key numbers that we should pay attention to.
1:06:15
Because I'm looking at the 2023 results and there are really
1:06:18
interesting numbers there.
1:06:19
SPEAKER_00: One of them that I've noted very keenly is the delinquency ratio.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_00: The NPL ratio is around 5%.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_00: The banking sector NPL is around 16 or so percent.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty impressive how Sarkos managed to handle credit risks.
1:06:31
I think that's a very important thing to discuss a lot about
1:06:34
Sarkos and handling
1:06:35
credit risk and maybe how the cooperative structure of Sarkos
1:06:38
helps to diffuse a
1:06:39
SPEAKER_00: bit of the high risk lending that is there perhaps among banks.
1:06:43
SPEAKER_00: What's your take on that?
1:06:44
SPEAKER_01: I can already see you have the numbers with you.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_01: The circle sector is 12% on average.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_01: Still, we are at the 5% now.
1:06:51
So it tells you that there's something that we understand about
1:06:54
the business.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_01: And like I've mentioned, it's not just about loading into our members.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_01: It is really working into a partnership together.
1:07:02
and also looking at the variety of kind of programs that you do
1:07:05
have so that you're
1:07:06
able to take care of the members' needs without necessarily
1:07:09
overburdening them.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_01: And you are a listening and caring institution.
1:07:13
And very key,
1:07:14
we do career surveys either for stakeholders,
1:07:16
the people who do business with us,
1:07:18
And also importantly for our members,
1:07:20
and they give us a lot of feedback.
1:07:21
SPEAKER_01: And even during the member education that we do every year,
1:07:24
SPEAKER_01: it's not just an yearly event,
1:07:27
SPEAKER_01: it's a monthly event.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_01: The kind of discussion we're having here today on a monthly basis,
1:07:31
SPEAKER_01: we do have that with our members.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_01: We do have webinars that we normally run.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_01: And we allow members to ask all these questions,
1:07:38
give us areas that they think we're not doing well and areas of improvement.
1:07:42
And all this is what is lending to that delinquency ratio of
1:07:46
about 5% compared with
1:07:48
SPEAKER_01: the banking sector,
1:07:49
SPEAKER_01: which is around 16%.
1:07:50
SPEAKER_01: So I generally say that when you look at the sector,
1:07:54
SPEAKER_01: your money is pretty much safe,
1:07:56
SPEAKER_01: very much safe.
1:07:57
And specifically for STEAMR,
1:07:59
I would urge anyone of you to go to our website.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_01: And even as you go to this AGM for this year,
1:08:05
SPEAKER_01: would be able to provide that.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_01: But more importantly than that,
1:08:08
we normally offer immediately after the AGM what you call an
1:08:11
investor's brief,
1:08:13
SPEAKER_01: whereby we'd be able to call and I hope one go you'd be there this time.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_01: Make sure we're there.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_01: Let you as the bigger stakeholders
1:08:22
SPEAKER_01: The fifth estate, the media, everyone is there.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_01: Our shareholders, the biggest shareholders will be invited.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_01: Our delegates, some of them are invited.
1:08:30
Any person who has any interest,
1:08:32
we ask them to be able to query and question.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes,
1:08:36
SPEAKER_01: because of the nature of our AGM,
1:08:39
SPEAKER_01: which is a delegate system,
1:08:41
sometimes the members do not get to interact in greater detail
1:08:45
around our financials.
1:08:46
So we're very open and we're the only circle in Kenya and
1:08:48
Africa who actually do
1:08:49
SPEAKER_01: that is to have an investor brief immediately after the HEM,
1:08:53
whereby now we go into the numbers and we give you the insights
1:08:57
of how our kitchen
1:08:58
SPEAKER_01: actually looks like and how the broth is actually made.
1:09:02
SPEAKER_01: We look forward to actually disclosing that to our membership.
1:09:05
SPEAKER_01: And we also ask you whether you're a member or a non-member.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_01: Go to our website,
1:09:09
SPEAKER_01: check our financials,
1:09:11
SPEAKER_01: check for the last five years,
1:09:12
SPEAKER_01: check the kind of trends that you have.
1:09:14
SPEAKER_01: We've been here for 50 years.
1:09:15
SPEAKER_01: We are excited.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_01: Actually, we celebrated our 50th anniversary last year.
1:09:19
SPEAKER_01: And you're very excited towards the next 50 years worth.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_01: So even looking forward, we are looking forward to bigger things.
1:09:27
SPEAKER_01: And despite the numbers that you're looking there,
1:09:29
SPEAKER_01: we are looking at actually moving even further.
1:09:32
We're looking at a growth in terms of our asset base,
1:09:34
a growth in terms of our branch network.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_01: We currently have 12.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_01: We think we can multiply this by even 15 or more.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_01: We are looking at the kind of products we are offering.
1:09:44
Always asking yourselves,
1:09:46
is there something that is missing out from the membership?
1:09:48
SPEAKER_01: that you can be able to provide.
1:09:50
SPEAKER_01: We do not want you, as a member, to go anywhere.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_01: We believe any service,
1:09:56
SPEAKER_01: we believe any financial product that you need,
1:09:59
SPEAKER_01: you should be able to get it at Simasakura.
1:10:01
We do hope that you can be able to provide that to you in a way
1:10:05
that is beneficial
1:10:06
SPEAKER_01: to yourselves as well.
1:10:07
You've been in this space for a while,
1:10:09
so I just want to ask you a very interesting question.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_00: How can someone make the most of being a member of a circle?
1:10:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, how can they optimize that?
1:10:18
What can they do to make sure that they are in good standing
1:10:21
and they're actually
1:10:21
SPEAKER_00: using as many products as possible,
1:10:23
SPEAKER_00: perhaps as a member of Stimus Circle?
1:10:24
SPEAKER_01: You start with the most basic thing.
1:10:27
The most basic thing is to have financial discipline,
1:10:29
live within your means.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_01: The grass always looks greener on the other side.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_01: As human beings, you're so...
1:10:35
SPEAKER_01: admire a lot what other people love.
1:10:37
SPEAKER_01: But when it comes to financials,
1:10:39
SPEAKER_01: you need to look at yourself as a person and ask yourself,
1:10:42
SPEAKER_01: number one,
1:10:43
SPEAKER_01: do I even need to borrow?
1:10:44
And I know this might sound interesting,
1:10:47
controversial,
1:10:47
because in a business credit.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_01: But the first question I'll ask is, truly, do you need to borrow?
1:10:52
SPEAKER_01: Why are you borrowing?
1:10:53
SPEAKER_01: For what purpose?
1:10:55
SPEAKER_01: And are you borrowing for consumption?
1:10:57
SPEAKER_01: Are you borrowing for investment?
1:10:58
SPEAKER_01: Exactly what?
1:11:00
SPEAKER_01: Are you borrowing for...
1:11:01
SPEAKER_01: So you need to ask yourself that question.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_01: So although circles provide very affordable interest rates,
1:11:08
SPEAKER_01: I've mentioned 9%,
1:11:09
SPEAKER_01: you had me mention 12%.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_01: These are the kind of rates you'll get in a circle.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_01: The banks will give you 20 to 24%.
1:11:15
SPEAKER_01: But it is not an excuse for you to go on a borrowing spree.
1:11:20
SPEAKER_01: Let me start with the younger people.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_01: Before you borrow to buy a car, could you borrow for something else?
1:11:25
SPEAKER_01: Borrow for a house, for example.
1:11:27
SPEAKER_01: There are many affordable mortgages outside there.
1:11:29
SPEAKER_01: Could you borrow to construct?
1:11:31
SPEAKER_01: Could you borrow to buy a plot of land somewhere?
1:11:34
SPEAKER_01: Could you borrow for investment?
1:11:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm borrowing this money so that I can invest in somewhere.
1:11:39
SPEAKER_01: So these are the kind of thinking that you need to have.
1:11:41
SPEAKER_01: Don't borrow because everybody around you is driving.
1:11:46
the latest,
1:11:47
I don't know what is the latest model of vehicles people love.
1:11:49
SPEAKER_01: Back in our days,
1:11:50
SPEAKER_01: we used to love Subaru,
1:11:52
SPEAKER_01: twin turbo,
1:11:53
SPEAKER_01: engine vehicles,
1:11:54
SPEAKER_01: and that was the desire then to go ahead and borrow for a vehicle.
1:11:57
SPEAKER_01: The vehicle is a liability for you.
1:11:59
So ask yourself,
1:12:00
before I borrow for this liability,
1:12:02
are there other things I'm able to do?
1:12:04
SPEAKER_01: So my first advice is for you to optimize the saving culture of circles.
1:12:09
If you can put aside 20,
1:12:10
I have members like that,
1:12:13
put aside 20,
1:12:13
put aside 50 bucks.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_01: Religiously.
1:12:17
SPEAKER_01: Can I mention something?
1:12:19
SPEAKER_01: I tend to think that we people who have nice suits,
1:12:22
SPEAKER_01: nice ties,
1:12:24
SPEAKER_01: work in lovely offices,
1:12:25
SPEAKER_01: generally,
1:12:26
SPEAKER_01: they're not good savers.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_01: As compared to the people who are in informal sector,
1:12:30
SPEAKER_01: you'd be surprised the person on the mtaani who's,
1:12:34
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:12:34
SPEAKER_01: the kobla,
1:12:35
SPEAKER_01: his shining shoes,
1:12:38
SPEAKER_01: kuna mingine yana choma fish mahani pale,
1:12:41
SPEAKER_01: akuna biyashara yaki yana hasoli yaki.
1:12:44
These people religiously,
1:12:45
you see that example I was giving you of a hundred bob?
1:12:48
SPEAKER_01: It's not just an academic thing I'm saying.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_01: It's fact check.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_01: I have individuals that are selling 20, a hundred.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_01: Now they're doing 500 bob a day.
1:12:58
For you,
1:12:58
if you're giving 500 bob right now,
1:13:00
how about being a single name to your take?
1:13:03
SPEAKER_01: So very quickly, you talk to a beer.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_01: But if you had these 100 bob or 200 bob shillings here,
1:13:16
SPEAKER_01: the one that we like betting with,
1:13:18
SPEAKER_01: the one that our young people are very good at doing.
1:13:22
SPEAKER_01: Instead of committing, suchuna bet, manu, suchuna nani.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_01: That money is better placed in a circle whereby the 100 bob,
1:13:30
SPEAKER_01: the 20 bob,
1:13:31
SPEAKER_01: the 50 bob religiously put it aside.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_01: You'd be surprised at the value you can be able to grow in.
1:13:38
But my advice would be,
1:13:40
and that's why I'm talking about financial discipline,
1:13:42
number one.
1:13:43
Number two,
1:13:43
sita money,
1:13:44
sana ya mwingine,
1:13:45
jiangaliyewe mwenyewe,
1:13:47
jiubebe mwenyewe.
1:13:49
SPEAKER_01: Chukua known about gender, something that can assist you, can help you.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_01: And then you borrow for a purpose.
1:13:56
Don't borrow because there's a party on Saturday and I need to
1:14:00
borrow some money.
1:14:01
SPEAKER_01: I need to look good.
1:14:06
SPEAKER_01: But reality, for what purpose are you doing this borrowing for?
1:14:10
SPEAKER_01: That's very fundamentally critical.
1:14:12
SPEAKER_01: It is the basics that will propel you to be a better member.
1:14:17
And then we talk about these things like we've discussed around
1:14:20
who are these
1:14:20
people you're guaranteeing so that you also do not want a
1:14:23
liability that you do not need.
1:14:25
SPEAKER_01: Look around you.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_01: Look at the friends that you have.
1:14:27
SPEAKER_01: Look at the colleagues you have around you.
1:14:29
SPEAKER_01: Are these the people you want to associate with?
1:14:31
SPEAKER_01: Are these the people you want to guarantee with?
1:14:34
SPEAKER_01: Again, if you're able to do, that can actually bend you.
1:14:37
SPEAKER_01: But importantly, for you to grow, you must have something.
1:14:40
And this is the difference between ourselves and any other
1:14:43
financial institution.
1:14:44
SPEAKER_01: We insist on saving.
1:14:46
SPEAKER_01: So save.
1:14:47
SPEAKER_01: You'd be surprised.
1:14:49
SPEAKER_01: This 9,000 becomes 90K.
1:14:49
SPEAKER_01: This 90K becomes 900,000.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_01: 900,000 becomes 9 million.
1:14:56
But also importantly for me is the aspect of compounding what
1:15:01
you're earning.
1:15:02
So imagine if you have about 10K and you're getting a 15%
1:15:06
return every year.
1:15:07
SPEAKER_01: That 15% return is how much?
1:15:11
SPEAKER_01: 15%.
1:15:11
SPEAKER_01: It's about what?
1:15:12
SPEAKER_01: 1,500 every year.
1:15:14
SPEAKER_01: And then from there, you can be able to put this money back.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_01: It keeps on earning over.
1:15:20
SPEAKER_01: If you have 100,000 shillings, you're getting 15,000 return every year.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_01: Instead of withdrawing this 15K,
1:15:25
SPEAKER_01: why don't you say,
1:15:27
SPEAKER_01: let me add on my 100,000 more another 15,000 shillings?
1:15:32
SPEAKER_01: Because by the end of that year, again, you'll get 15% of the 115K.
1:15:37
SPEAKER_01: Again, you add that, keep on compounding it.
1:15:39
SPEAKER_01: And whatever more amount of money excess you might get,
1:15:43
SPEAKER_01: if you get an allowance here,
1:15:45
SPEAKER_01: when Kia Kadila hap,
1:15:48
SPEAKER_01: So the best way,
1:15:50
SPEAKER_01: therefore,
1:15:50
to become a better circle member is to understand the selling
1:15:55
principle before the credit.
1:15:57
SPEAKER_01: Don't come to a circle to borrow.
1:15:58
SPEAKER_01: Please come to a circle.
1:16:00
SPEAKER_01: First and foremost, to sell.
1:16:02
SPEAKER_01: Come to a circle to invest in terms of your share capital.
1:16:05
SPEAKER_01: Come to a circle.
1:16:05
SPEAKER_01: Then after that, only then can you say, do I truly need to borrow?
1:16:10
SPEAKER_01: And for what purpose, as I've pointed out, do I actually need to borrow?
1:16:13
SPEAKER_01: If you are to do that,
1:16:15
SPEAKER_01: doing good books.
1:16:15
SPEAKER_01: Number two, take these educations.
1:16:17
SPEAKER_01: Mwango Capital, thank you so much.
1:16:19
You're doing actually the principle of being in a circle of
1:16:22
board member education.
1:16:24
SPEAKER_01: That's very critical for us.
1:16:26
SPEAKER_01: So anytime, ask questions.
1:16:28
SPEAKER_01: There's no silly question anywhere.
1:16:31
SPEAKER_01: Uliza Maswali, keep on asking.
1:16:32
SPEAKER_01: If you don't get it, don't let it pass by.
1:16:35
SPEAKER_01: Keep on asking.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_01: If you get a platform like this, Uliza Maswali, do follow-ups with us.
1:16:39
SPEAKER_01: Get our email address.
1:16:40
SPEAKER_01: Get our telephone numbers.
1:16:42
SPEAKER_01: visit us,
1:16:43
SPEAKER_01: participate in our webinars,
1:16:45
so that you can get as much information as possible in terms of
1:16:48
how you can build yourself.
1:16:49
SPEAKER_01: And I know once you do that,
1:16:52
SPEAKER_01: I can guarantee you,
1:16:53
SPEAKER_01: I have members,
1:16:54
SPEAKER_01: like I've mentioned,
1:16:54
SPEAKER_01: who have been in this circle,
1:16:56
SPEAKER_01: founder members,
1:16:56
SPEAKER_01: 1974,
1:16:57
SPEAKER_01: until now,
1:16:59
SPEAKER_01: I have members who are more than 90 years of age,
1:17:03
SPEAKER_01: still with this circle,
1:17:05
SPEAKER_01: just like I have that six-month-old baby who is also a member.
1:17:09
SPEAKER_01: You can go through that process,
1:17:11
SPEAKER_01: understand our products,
1:17:12
SPEAKER_01: understands the kind of education you're giving the financial literacy.
1:17:16
SPEAKER_01: I assure you there's no better assignment to start than now.
1:17:20
SPEAKER_01: If you didn't start yesterday, start now.
1:17:22
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
1:17:23
We've really pushed almost two hours now and there is a lot of
1:17:27
questions coming in.
1:17:27
SPEAKER_00: So I think I'd have to put a natural pause there.
1:17:30
And give you the chance to give a closing thought in terms of
1:17:33
what you would want
1:17:34
SPEAKER_00: people to take away.
1:17:35
SPEAKER_00: Invite them to the Stigma Circle to be a member and perhaps the AGM too,
1:17:40
SPEAKER_00: so that they can listen in.
1:17:42
SPEAKER_01: Stigma Circle is the second largest circle in Africa.
1:17:45
SPEAKER_01: We are soon to be the largest circle in Africa.
1:17:47
SPEAKER_01: We have a timeline of less than two and a half years to do that.
1:17:51
SPEAKER_01: Quite recently,
1:17:52
SPEAKER_01: Stigma Circle came up with a new strategic plan,
1:17:54
SPEAKER_01: our 2025 to 2029 strategic plan.
1:17:58
SPEAKER_01: Our vision is to empower you as our members of life.
1:18:02
Our mission is that we're here to redefine sustainable
1:18:05
socio-economic wellness.
1:18:07
SPEAKER_01: That is our mission.
1:18:08
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
1:18:09
SPEAKER_01: It's about you as a member.
1:18:10
And then how can we redefine this for you and provide for you
1:18:13
socio-economic wellness.
1:18:16
SPEAKER_01: We have four main core values that I would like to share with you.
1:18:19
SPEAKER_01: We call it STAR.
1:18:21
SPEAKER_01: S-T-I-R.
1:18:22
SPEAKER_01: So star means S for simplicity.
1:18:33
I would love and I would love to eliminate complexity in how we
1:18:37
communicate to you
1:18:37
SPEAKER_01: and how we deliver service to you.
1:18:40
SPEAKER_01: So simplicity is critical for us.
1:18:43
SPEAKER_01: Simple loan products,
1:18:45
SPEAKER_01: simple selling products,
1:18:46
SPEAKER_01: simple in terms of even the way you interact with us.
1:18:49
SPEAKER_01: So simplicity is very key.
1:18:51
SPEAKER_01: Secondly is trust.
1:18:53
SPEAKER_01: We will always act in good faith,
1:18:55
SPEAKER_01: we will be reliable,
1:18:56
SPEAKER_01: we will be truthful,
1:18:57
SPEAKER_01: and we will support you and each other.
1:19:00
SPEAKER_01: And very closely related to staff is an element of integrity.
1:19:03
It's about honesty and adherence to moral and ethical
1:19:07
principles in all the
1:19:09
SPEAKER_01: interactions we have with you.
1:19:10
SPEAKER_01: And lastly, in terms of this con-violent con-star, is the responsiveness.
1:19:15
SPEAKER_01: We are here to listen, we will be there,
1:19:18
We'll share knowledge and act responsibly as we have our
1:19:21
engagement with you.
1:19:23
SPEAKER_01: Everything about us is about you as a member.
1:19:26
SPEAKER_01: It's one of our key pillars, member in business development.
1:19:29
SPEAKER_01: As a member of stigma, you're at the heart of what we do.
1:19:32
SPEAKER_01: That's what we care about.
1:19:33
SPEAKER_01: If it does not assist the member, if it is not centric to our member,
1:19:38
SPEAKER_01: then that is not part of our culture.
1:19:39
We are ingraining our culture that everything and anything is
1:19:43
our global member.
1:19:44
SPEAKER_01: And as we do that,
1:19:45
we'll be leveraging a lot around technology so that you can be
1:19:49
able to nurture and
1:19:50
to create a relationship that transcends the physical
1:19:53
relationship actually into a
1:19:54
SPEAKER_01: virtual relationship.
1:19:56
We're also here to offer operational and service excellence to you,
1:19:59
to a member.
1:20:00
SPEAKER_01: Everything that you undertake,
1:20:02
SPEAKER_01: I assure you,
1:20:03
is about ensuring you have efficiency in terms of our processes
1:20:08
and you have
1:20:08
convenience in terms of you accessing the services that you
1:20:12
need to do so as a member.
1:20:14
SPEAKER_01: And good governance is very critical for us.
1:20:16
SPEAKER_01: That's a very important element of everything that we do.
1:20:19
We are well known in terms of our demographics,
1:20:22
the boards,
1:20:22
the people who work in STIMA.
1:20:25
SPEAKER_01: Good governance is very, very important to us.
1:20:28
SPEAKER_01: Our people and our culture is also important.
1:20:30
The staff that we have,
1:20:32
we keep on hiring very competent staff to carry out our duties.
1:20:35
SPEAKER_01: You'd be surprised at the level of staff we actually have.
1:20:38
SPEAKER_01: And of course, the last one is about the financial sustainability.
1:20:41
SPEAKER_01: And this is a very key pillar of the stigma.
1:20:43
As I've mentioned,
1:20:44
we are here 50 years in core,
1:20:46
and we'd love to be here 50 years from now.
1:20:49
SPEAKER_01: We do have very big loans.
1:20:51
SPEAKER_01: We'd like to be the first circle to reach 100 billion in asset base.
1:20:54
SPEAKER_01: We have a target of almost 120 billion.
1:20:57
We're looking at being the first circle to reach at least a
1:21:00
revenue of 19 billion,
1:21:02
SPEAKER_01: that's by the year 2025.
1:21:04
SPEAKER_01: And even as I talk about this,
1:21:05
SPEAKER_01: not just about the numbers,
1:21:06
SPEAKER_01: you can imagine your part and parcel of us.
1:21:09
It also means the returns that you give to you are returns that
1:21:12
you make a lot of sense.
1:21:13
SPEAKER_01: So again, join the stimulus.
1:21:16
SPEAKER_01: Stimulus Circle is the circle to be at.
1:21:18
SPEAKER_01: We have proven it for the last 50 years.
1:21:21
SPEAKER_01: And we shall continue proving it for the next 50 years.
1:21:23
SPEAKER_01: We are here for the longevity of our members.
1:21:26
SPEAKER_01: If it does not in any way benefit you, we are not interested in doing it.
1:21:30
We are here making sure that we are very much aware of the
1:21:33
risks that we undertake.
1:21:35
We take very calculated risks in any returns in any business
1:21:39
that we go into.
1:21:40
SPEAKER_01: You're not here telling you we're going to give you returns of 30%.
1:21:44
SPEAKER_01: These are 30%.
1:21:47
We are very careful to make sure that whatever we give to you,
1:21:49
we can sustain it.
1:21:50
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm saying, we're looking for a relationship that is beyond now.
1:21:53
When they look at you as a member,
1:21:55
we're not looking at you to milk you through your money.
1:21:57
SPEAKER_01: We're looking at you as an owner of this institution,
1:22:01
somebody that can help us grow from the very small circle that
1:22:04
we were 50 years ago.
1:22:06
SPEAKER_01: this big entity that we are right now.
1:22:09
SPEAKER_01: And hopefully 50 years from now,
1:22:11
SPEAKER_01: whoever will be here as a CEO,
1:22:12
SPEAKER_01: as a board,
1:22:13
SPEAKER_01: as a delegate,
1:22:14
SPEAKER_01: would be able to showcase that single circle actually came very fast.
1:22:17
SPEAKER_01: So be part and parcel of this winning circle.
1:22:20
SPEAKER_01: We are actually the best circle in Africa.
1:22:21
SPEAKER_01: Join us.
1:22:23
SPEAKER_00: How long have you been CEO by the way?
1:22:25
SPEAKER_01: I've been CEO for four years, but I've been teamer SACO for a decade.
1:22:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited to be part and parcel of this team,
1:22:31
SPEAKER_01: parcel of more than 55 people in Roosterville.
1:22:34
SPEAKER_01: So, garibuni kabisa, na shika menzako, muambia Siri.
1:22:38
SPEAKER_01: Siri ni kuwa miumba wa SACO, na SACO ni stinu SACO.
1:22:43
SPEAKER_00: I'll finish the word.
1:22:44
Someone who goes by the handle KB's Enterprise,
1:22:47
they say to Queda part two.
1:22:49
SPEAKER_00: This was very informative.
1:22:51
SPEAKER_00: So it's over to you, Dr. Gamalev.
1:22:53
SPEAKER_00: Seems like members want to hear more from you.
1:22:56
But thank you so much for taking your time today to come and
1:22:59
speak to us about
1:23:01
SPEAKER_00: Steve Masako and Taco as a whole.
1:23:03
We hope to maybe have you after the financial results and you
1:23:06
can take us through
1:23:08
Maybe line by line about what the various aspects of the
1:23:10
Asako's financial health look like.
1:23:13
Because you said you had to take us to the kitchen where you
1:23:16
cook everything.
1:23:17
So we want to come and see how the ingredients are mixed up and
1:23:20
how they end up at
1:23:21
SPEAKER_00: the end of the day.
1:23:22
SPEAKER_00: It will be the first time we go through the financials of Asako.
1:23:24
SPEAKER_00: So I do...
1:23:25
SPEAKER_00: Hope that half of the AGM will be able to have you around.
1:23:28
SPEAKER_00: On that note, I want to thank the team from Mwango Capital.
1:23:31
SPEAKER_00: I see a couple of people in the audience.
1:23:32
SPEAKER_00: Very much thank you for making sure all the questions,
1:23:35
SPEAKER_00: everything in the background,
1:23:36
SPEAKER_00: they work hard to make sure the quality of the spaces is super high.
1:23:39
SPEAKER_00: I also want to thank the team from Stimus.com.
1:23:42
SPEAKER_00: We've been planning to have this in a while.
1:23:43
SPEAKER_00: So this was really a pleasure having you.
1:23:46
SPEAKER_00: Hope to have you guys again.
1:23:47
SPEAKER_01: Nambu Mazuri, AGM Reloading in Akoja.
1:23:50
SPEAKER_01: What's that space?
1:23:51
SPEAKER_01: And again, I'm very thankful.
1:23:53
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for hosting me in this session.
1:23:56
SPEAKER_01: I have seen a lot of feedback.
1:23:58
SPEAKER_01: Myself and the team would pick on all of this.
1:24:01
SPEAKER_01: I've seen some that are not answered, some aren't.
1:24:03
SPEAKER_01: We continue reaching out and continue engaging.
1:24:05
SPEAKER_01: And I truly look forward to
1:24:07
SPEAKER_01: part two of this engagement.
1:24:09
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
1:24:09
SPEAKER_01: And definitely you've got an invite.
1:24:11
SPEAKER_01: This is the invite up to you for the Investorish.
1:24:14
So we look forward to have that discussion just online with you
1:24:18
and the rest of the team.
1:24:19
SPEAKER_01: I am very humbled, very thankful.
1:24:22
SPEAKER_01: Asantini nyo te ambao mme participate hapaneo.
1:24:27
SPEAKER_01: And I look forward, again, for you to become members of STIMA.
1:24:29
And those who are members of STIMA,
1:24:31
I look forward to continue engaging with us.
1:24:34
Keep on holding us to a high standard so that you can always
1:24:38
meet your expectation.
1:24:39
SPEAKER_01: Asante San, that's recorded.
1:24:41
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.