Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Full Episode - Donald Trump Ruined America 250 By Making It About Donald Trump + Effective Governance Is The Winning Path for Democrats

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Full Episode - Donald Trump Ruined America 250 By Making It About Donald Trump + Effective Governance Is The Winning Path for Democrats · The Chuck ToddCast

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Speaker 1: dot com slash chuck. Hello Aaron, Welcome to the Thursday
1:47
Speaker 1: episode of the Chuck Todcast. And you know, it seems
1:50
Speaker 1: to me that I need to let you know every
1:52
Speaker 1: day of what my goal is and what I'm doing here.
1:56
Speaker 1: And let me just put it simply, I'm just trying
1:58
Speaker 1: to explain politics to the rest of us. There's a
2:01
Speaker 1: lot of left wing content and right wing content, anti
2:05
Speaker 1: Trump content, pro Trump content. I'm just here trying to
2:08
Speaker 1: explain politics to the rest of us, and so if
2:12
Speaker 1: that's what you're looking for, Understand what is and understand
2:17
Speaker 1: what should be. And that was always the goal of
2:21
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do every episode. But hey, there's
2:24
Speaker 1: nothing like a little repetition to remind you of what
2:27
Speaker 1: we're up to here. So that's what it is. Welcome
2:30
Speaker 1: to the Check podcast. It's politics for the rest of us.
2:34
Speaker 1: And to get there, let me give you a quick
2:37
Speaker 1: little rundown of today's episode. My interview guest today is
2:41
Speaker 1: Debbie Cox Bolton. She is part of the New Deal Democrats.
2:45
Speaker 1: So what are they? This is the reincarnation of the
2:48
Speaker 1: old DLC, the centrist democratic organization that sprung up in
2:52
Speaker 1: the late eighties, that was the driving force behind the
2:55
Speaker 1: eventual presidency of this that was the driving force behind
2:59
Speaker 1: the eventual presidency of Bill Clinton. There's a point by
3:04
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight DLC was being affiliated with the
3:10
Speaker 1: DLC was almost as bad as being affiliated with the
3:13
Speaker 1: so called establishment right now, and you saw a lot
3:17
Speaker 1: of a rising group of sort of new progressive voters,
3:22
Speaker 1: new liberal voters back in the two thousand and six
3:24
Speaker 1: and two thousand and eight campaigns that in democratic primaries,
3:27
Speaker 1: made in DLC membership and that negative, and so we
3:31
Speaker 1: go through these ebbs and flows. And this is a
3:34
Speaker 1: reminder that the Democratic Party goes through these ebbs and flows.
3:37
Speaker 1: And right now it is the base of the party
3:40
Speaker 1: that is on the rise. It is the base of
3:42
Speaker 1: the party that wants to be grabbing the leadership Mantel,
3:47
Speaker 1: and these centrist Democrats are trying to figure out how
3:54
Speaker 1: do they survive in this new era. So that's the
3:58
Speaker 1: conversation on that front. A interviewed her before the last
4:04
Speaker 1: essentially eight days of Democratic Socialists of America success both
4:08
Speaker 1: in New York City and Denver. So do keep that
4:10
Speaker 1: mind when you listen to that conversation. What else is
4:13
Speaker 1: going on in the last seventy two hours. Obviously we
4:15
Speaker 1: got some big Supreme Court rulings, and we had another
4:19
Speaker 1: round of elections in Colorado, and some important poll information
4:23
Speaker 1: that came out of the New York Times and my
4:26
Speaker 1: friends at AARP that I think serve as a good
4:29
Speaker 1: sort of benchmark. Here we are sort of five months
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Speaker 1: to go before election day, We've got some benchmark ideas
4:36
Speaker 1: of where the electorate is at the moment and where
4:38
Speaker 1: the electorate could be headed. And I also have my
4:43
Speaker 1: top five list it's a fun one. This week. My
4:46
Speaker 1: five favorite fictional presidents. I'll be very curious if you
4:50
Speaker 1: can guess what number one is. Let's just say it
4:56
Speaker 1: is a fictional president that looks more real all the time.
5:00
Speaker 1: And then, of course I've got your questions. But where
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Speaker 1: am I going to begin. I'm going to begin where
5:04
Speaker 1: we're what we're all doing this weekend, and that is
5:10
Speaker 1: wanting to celebrate the fourth of July. But let's be honest,
5:14
Speaker 1: the celebration of America at two fifty sucks. And I
5:18
Speaker 1: know that is not the word you could argue that
5:21
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to use. I should come up with something
5:24
Speaker 1: a bit more mature than just simply saying, who this sucks.
5:29
Speaker 1: But guess what. Maybe I'm supposed to say the celebration
5:34
Speaker 1: is challenging or complicated or uneven. But the fact of
5:37
Speaker 1: the matter is now it just simply sucks. And it's
5:40
Speaker 1: not because America sucks. It's quite the opposite. America at
5:44
Speaker 1: two fifty should be so much bigger than what we're
5:48
Speaker 1: what we're sort of experiencing at the moment. It should
5:50
Speaker 1: feel like one of those moments when the country pauses
5:53
Speaker 1: long enough to take itself seriously, not worship itself, not
5:58
Speaker 1: lie to itself, not wrap itself in bunting, and pretend
6:02
Speaker 1: the story has always been noble and clean. But to
6:06
Speaker 1: take it seriously. This is an incredible experiment that's still going.
6:11
Speaker 1: Two hundred and fifty years since the Declaration of Independence,
6:13
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty years since this country announced a
6:16
Speaker 1: radical promise that it did not yet live up to,
6:19
Speaker 1: and then spent the next two and a half centuries
6:21
Speaker 1: fighting over whether it really meant what that declaration said
6:27
Speaker 1: to hell of a story. And yet as this fourth
6:30
Speaker 1: gets closer, this celebration feels smaller and smaller, and it
6:35
Speaker 1: really bothers me. It's funny, it's sort of like what
6:38
Speaker 1: angers me. It's shit like this that angers me because
6:41
Speaker 1: this should have been an easy one, at least as
6:43
Speaker 1: these things go. Not easy because the story is simple.
6:46
Speaker 1: It is not simple. It's never been simple. It's fascinating,
6:49
Speaker 1: but it's easy because the country gave us the material.
6:52
Speaker 1: A republic born in contradiction, a founding document that declared
6:56
Speaker 1: equality while slavery still existed, a constitution that created us
7:00
Speaker 1: structure for self government but left millions of people outside
7:03
Speaker 1: the circle of full citizenship a nation that has been
7:06
Speaker 1: visionary and hypocritical, cruel and generous, exclusionary and expansive, self
7:12
Speaker 1: satisfied and self correcting. It's not a boring story, certainly
7:17
Speaker 1: not a weak story. It is quintessential American. This is
7:21
Speaker 1: the American story. It's a great story. And I wish
7:24
Speaker 1: that we're the story we were telling right now, because
7:26
Speaker 1: I do not believe America is disappointing. I believe exactly
7:31
Speaker 1: the opposite. The American experiment is one of the most
7:34
Speaker 1: remarkable achievements in the history of self governance. It is
7:37
Speaker 1: hard to govern a large country, it is harder to
7:40
Speaker 1: govern a large, diverse country. And it is really hard
7:43
Speaker 1: to govern a multi ethnic democracy where people have the
7:48
Speaker 1: right to disagree with each other, sue each other, organize
7:52
Speaker 1: against each other, vote each other out of power, and
7:55
Speaker 1: still somehow remain part of the same constitutional system. We
8:01
Speaker 1: should not undersell this. We spend a lot of time
8:04
Speaker 1: looking at what we do not have, or what we
8:07
Speaker 1: might lose, or where the country has failed. I do
8:11
Speaker 1: that all the time in politics. That is usually where
8:15
Speaker 1: the action is. But every once in a while it
8:18
Speaker 1: is worth stepping back and saying the obvious thing when
8:21
Speaker 1: America is built is extraordinary, and it is also much
8:25
Speaker 1: younger than we pretend. The country is two hundred and
8:28
Speaker 1: fifty years old. The version of America that the Founders
8:37
Speaker 1: created is only actually about sixty years old, because if
8:41
Speaker 1: we are being honest, the modern version begins with the
8:43
Speaker 1: Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Acts of sixty
8:45
Speaker 1: four and sixty five. Before that, yes, we had democratic forms,
8:50
Speaker 1: we had elections, we had parties, and we had courts,
8:53
Speaker 1: and we had all the language of democracy. But for
8:56
Speaker 1: millions of Americans, that promise was not real in any
8:59
Speaker 1: practical sense. By the way, this does not diminish the country.
9:03
Speaker 1: It just simply tells the truth about how we have
9:06
Speaker 1: made a more perfect union. The greatest phrase of the
9:12
Speaker 1: Founding documents, right, it's doing so much right that phrase,
9:17
Speaker 1: and it matters so much more perfect is not a
9:20
Speaker 1: claim of perfection. It is an admission that the work
9:23
Speaker 1: is never finished, that societies evolved, and there's constantly opportunities
9:30
Speaker 1: to make a more perfect union. Now, the words were
9:33
Speaker 1: there before the reality showed up. Right, the ideals were
9:36
Speaker 1: there before the law e are caught up. The country
9:39
Speaker 1: had to be pushed and forced embarrassed, sometimes shamed, sometimes inspired,
9:45
Speaker 1: sometimes dragged closer to the thing it said it wanted
9:49
Speaker 1: to be. That is the American story I wanted to
9:53
Speaker 1: see us celebrate at our two hundred and fiftieth birthday.
9:57
Speaker 1: Not some cartoon version of seventeen seventy six. Not a
10:01
Speaker 1: history that is afraid of slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow, immigration,
10:05
Speaker 1: civil rights, dissent, protest, war, corruption, or any of the
10:09
Speaker 1: uncomfortable chapters that make a story worth telling. Right, It's
10:17
Speaker 1: the uncomfortable parts that make a story interesting. It's what
10:23
Speaker 1: makes it our story. America is not remarkable because it
10:26
Speaker 1: was born perfect. It is remarkable because it created enough
10:30
Speaker 1: room over time for people to keep fighting to make
10:34
Speaker 1: it better. And that is why the Supreme Court rejecting
10:38
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's attempt to restrict birthright citizenship in this moment
10:41
Speaker 1: matters a lot. I know some people want to focus
10:45
Speaker 1: on the folks who disagreed with the majority. We are
10:49
Speaker 1: always going to folks that disagree with a majority in
10:51
Speaker 1: this democracy. What's important is what was agreed upon, and
10:54
Speaker 1: a conservative court refusing to let this president narrow that
10:58
Speaker 1: inheritance is not something side issue. It is part of
11:02
Speaker 1: the story. It is another reminder that the multi ethnic
11:05
Speaker 1: democracy we have built is more durable than its enemies
11:09
Speaker 1: want to believe. And it is a reaffirmation that America
11:14
Speaker 1: is an idea, not an ethnicity. The Court, and I'm
11:19
Speaker 1: sorry anybody that does not believe American is an idea
11:23
Speaker 1: is not an American. In my book, the Court struck
11:28
Speaker 1: down Trump's order in June thirtieth, with the majority reaffirming
11:33
Speaker 1: birthright citizenship under that fourteenth Amendment. And it kind of
11:38
Speaker 1: is it a six to three decision? Is it a
11:40
Speaker 1: five and a half to three and a half because
11:42
Speaker 1: Justice Kavanaugh agreed in the result on statutory grounds, which
11:46
Speaker 1: is why the legal split is probably more nuanced than
11:49
Speaker 1: a headline alone suggests. But it's proof that this country,
11:56
Speaker 1: in this republic, is durable. It's not indestructible, but it
12:00
Speaker 1: is durable. And the durability of an idea is no
12:03
Speaker 1: small thing. So this anniversary should have been a moment
12:06
Speaker 1: to think seriously about the country, to celebrate it, but
12:11
Speaker 1: also to understand it, do a little civics education right,
12:15
Speaker 1: and we failed at that too, To tell the story
12:17
Speaker 1: of a republic that has been all of these things
12:19
Speaker 1: all at once, visionary and hypocritical, brutal and generous, exclusionary
12:26
Speaker 1: and expansive, arrogance and self correcting. That's not anti American.
12:32
Speaker 1: That is the only kind of patriotism that makes sense
12:35
Speaker 1: to me. And instead, here we are, and I do
12:40
Speaker 1: not think there is any way to avoid the obvious
12:42
Speaker 1: reason this anniversary feels so much smaller than it should be.
12:46
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has made the country's birthday about Donald Trump.
12:49
Speaker 1: Now did we all see this coming, Yes we did,
12:53
Speaker 1: We most of us did. But it doesn't make it
12:57
Speaker 1: hurt any less. Look, it's not the only thing that
13:01
Speaker 1: is wrong with this moment. There's other things that are wrong,
13:04
Speaker 1: but this is the defining thing. Donald Trump has ruined
13:07
Speaker 1: the American brand and the American birthday celebration. The country
13:11
Speaker 1: had a bipartisan, congressionally created American two fifty effort, you
13:15
Speaker 1: know years ago in the Planning America two fifty, The
13:19
Speaker 1: organization describes itself as a bipartisan initiative for the two
13:23
Speaker 1: hundred and fiftieth anniversary at the US semi Quincentennial Commission
13:28
Speaker 1: was created by Congress in twenty sixteen to lead this
13:31
Speaker 1: nationwide commemoration. There was supposed to be state and local events, historians,
13:36
Speaker 1: civics groups, schools, museums, cities and towns, all capable of
13:40
Speaker 1: telling their own peace of the great American story. It
13:43
Speaker 1: could have been broad. It might have been a little messy,
13:48
Speaker 1: might have even been a little bland at times. But
13:50
Speaker 1: that would have been fine, because sometimes bland is the point.
13:54
Speaker 1: Sometimes bland is how you make room for everybody. Maybe
13:57
Speaker 1: a little bit hochey and bland, right, but that's okay.
14:00
Speaker 1: You're trying to widen the atmosphere aperture here. But Trump
14:04
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. He couldn't leave it alone. He created
14:07
Speaker 1: his own version of the celebration. First, he created this
14:10
Speaker 1: task Force in celebrating America's two fiftieth Birthday with Freedom
14:13
Speaker 1: to Fifty, with the President his chair, the Vice President
14:16
Speaker 1: his vice chair, and it competed and overshadowed the congressionally
14:21
Speaker 1: created taxpayer funded America to fifty effort. Trump just took
14:26
Speaker 1: it all over. He staged his own little UFC fight
14:30
Speaker 1: on the White House lawn. A literal cage gets erected,
14:34
Speaker 1: or a bouncy house that looks like a cage gets
14:37
Speaker 1: erected in the backyard on his birthday. And it was
14:41
Speaker 1: supposed to also be about the two hundred and fiftieth
14:44
Speaker 1: birthday too. What's there to even add on this? Right,
14:48
Speaker 1: the image does the work. There's a cage on the
14:50
Speaker 1: White House lawn, a national birthday turned into his own
14:54
Speaker 1: personal political rally, a celebration of the country made to
14:57
Speaker 1: orbit a one man. And this is why so many
15:03
Speaker 1: people are opting out. This is why so many polls
15:06
Speaker 1: have shown how uninspired people feel at this moment. And
15:13
Speaker 1: this is the part that Trump's supporters refuse to take
15:15
Speaker 1: responsibility for. They want to say that Democrats are being petty,
15:18
Speaker 1: or the left is pouting, or Trump's critics just refuse
15:21
Speaker 1: to feel patriotic while he is president. Well, number one,
15:25
Speaker 1: the beauty of this country is that you get to
15:27
Speaker 1: feel whatever the hell you want. It's your first Amendment, right.
15:30
Speaker 1: There's no law that says you have to love America
15:32
Speaker 1: every hour of every day. There's no requirement that we
15:35
Speaker 1: all feel proud at the same moments or for the
15:37
Speaker 1: same reasons. What made me proud as American may not
15:41
Speaker 1: have made you proud to be an American at a
15:42
Speaker 1: given point. Some people feel patriotic when they see military power.
15:47
Speaker 1: Some feel it when they see protest. Some feel it
15:51
Speaker 1: when they watch fireworks on the fourth of July. Some
15:54
Speaker 1: feel it watching a naturalization ceremony, one of the most
15:57
Speaker 1: moving things I've ever attended. If Some feel it when
16:00
Speaker 1: the country honors the Founders. Some feel it when the
16:03
Speaker 1: country finally tells the truth about the people the founders excluded.
16:08
Speaker 1: This is not a defect in America. It's what makes
16:10
Speaker 1: us different from every other fricking country on this planet.
16:14
Speaker 1: This is the feature of this country. And a president
16:18
Speaker 1: who understood the country would understand that. He would understand
16:22
Speaker 1: that his job at a moment like this is not
16:24
Speaker 1: to force everybody into his version of patriotism. His job
16:28
Speaker 1: is to make room for other people's patriotism too. But
16:31
Speaker 1: Trump cannot do that. He can't even fake it. He
16:36
Speaker 1: couldn't fake it. Talk about the ultimate insult to all
16:39
Speaker 1: of us as Americans. He always thinks everyone else should
16:42
Speaker 1: accommodate him. He never thinks he should accommodate anyone else
16:48
Speaker 1: at all. That's why our allies are not really there
16:50
Speaker 1: for us anymore. And that is a real problem. When
16:53
Speaker 1: the job is to lead a country where half the
16:55
Speaker 1: people did not vote for you once did not support you,
16:58
Speaker 1: and may never support you. They are no less American
17:01
Speaker 1: than you are. This is the thing that gets lost
17:05
Speaker 1: on a lot of the coverage of him. Character is
17:07
Speaker 1: not some side issue. It is about whether someone is
17:11
Speaker 1: personally admirable. It's not about that either. Character matters because
17:15
Speaker 1: there are moments when the country needs a president to
17:17
Speaker 1: rise above himself. Do you have the character to just
17:21
Speaker 1: put anybody else before yourself? I'm not even asking you
17:26
Speaker 1: to do it all the time, just per small period
17:29
Speaker 1: of time, just long enough to let the country have
17:32
Speaker 1: this moment. It's not your moment, Donald Trump, you selfish guy.
17:36
Speaker 1: You but he couldn't do it. He turns participation into endorsement.
17:41
Speaker 1: He turns every handshake into a trophy. He turns this
17:46
Speaker 1: natural ritual into some branding opportunity. And the self enrichment
17:50
Speaker 1: is just disgusting. I mean, you want to know why
17:54
Speaker 1: jd Vance now says that Nixon no longer It would
17:57
Speaker 1: be a ten hour stories because the corruption taking place
18:00
Speaker 1: the administration he's serving in totally overshadows anything Nixon attempted
18:04
Speaker 1: to do. And then we're all supposed to pretend the
18:08
Speaker 1: people who stay away are the ones being divisive. Please,
18:12
Speaker 1: this is so backwards. If you make every shared space
18:16
Speaker 1: feel like your personal property, you should not be surprised
18:19
Speaker 1: when people stop showing up. The Great American State Fair
18:24
Speaker 1: on the National Ball could have been amazing, could have
18:28
Speaker 1: been Epcot comes to DC. Instead, it became another example
18:33
Speaker 1: of the problem, a patriotic showcase that many people could
18:37
Speaker 1: not quite separate from the man who had seized it.
18:41
Speaker 1: There's a reason there are sparse crofts withdrawn performers, states
18:46
Speaker 1: declining to send delegations, accusations of partisanship, and grift around
18:51
Speaker 1: everything Freedom two fifty as an organization has touched. And
18:56
Speaker 1: what makes this especially frustrating is that these big anniversaries
18:59
Speaker 1: almost you know, we don't have a lot of them,
19:02
Speaker 1: And ironically our big anniversary moments have come at some
19:06
Speaker 1: really inopportune times. And maybe that's the lesson we need
19:10
Speaker 1: to take away from this. Maybe anniversaries are less like
19:13
Speaker 1: celebrations and more like mirrors. At one hundred, the country
19:18
Speaker 1: was about to abandon reconstruction. We were on the edge
19:21
Speaker 1: of one of the worst retreats from equality in American history,
19:25
Speaker 1: right the eighteen seventy six Compromise. One of the worst
19:30
Speaker 1: things we have done in our country's history. That was
19:35
Speaker 1: just after we turned one hundred. At one hundred and
19:37
Speaker 1: fifty in nineteen twenty six, the country was still living
19:41
Speaker 1: with the stench of Teapot Dome and the corruption of
19:43
Speaker 1: the Harding era, which at the time was probably the
19:45
Speaker 1: worst taxpayer grift we've seen yet. Until now at two hundred,
19:53
Speaker 1: the country was still coming out of Vietnam, Watergate, Nixon,
19:56
Speaker 1: and a profound loss of trusted government. So here we are,
19:58
Speaker 1: at two fifty. We have this. Maybe that isn't an accident.
20:04
Speaker 1: Maybe the big round numbers force us to look at ourselves.
20:08
Speaker 1: Sometimes we do not like what we see. I do
20:10
Speaker 1: not like what I see right now. I do not
20:14
Speaker 1: like that we had a chance to celebrate the country
20:16
Speaker 1: in a serious way and are instead watching this president
20:19
Speaker 1: cheap in it. I do not like that younger Americans
20:22
Speaker 1: are being taught that this is normal, that natural rituals
20:26
Speaker 1: are just campaign events with better fireworks. I do not
20:30
Speaker 1: like that a country with this much to celebrate has
20:32
Speaker 1: a leader who cannot share the stage with the country
20:35
Speaker 1: he leads. And I should be clear about something. I'm
20:39
Speaker 1: not mad at the voters. Voters make choices for all
20:42
Speaker 1: kinds of reasons. Some are whise, some are not. That's democracy.
20:46
Speaker 1: I'm mad at the leader. I'm mad that someone handed
20:49
Speaker 1: this responsibility keeps showing he does not understand the story
20:53
Speaker 1: he's supposed to be helping this country. Tell Trump does
20:57
Speaker 1: not see himself as one president in a long, constantitutional
21:00
Speaker 1: chain that begins with George Washington. He sees himself as
21:04
Speaker 1: the exception to this chain. He treats the presidency as
21:07
Speaker 1: if it begins a new book, instead of being one
21:10
Speaker 1: chapter and a very old, very messy, very consequential book.
21:16
Speaker 1: That is not patriotism. Patriotism is not being afraid of history.
21:22
Speaker 1: It is not pretending the country was perfect in seventeen
21:25
Speaker 1: seventy six. It is not acting as if the only
21:27
Speaker 1: way to love America is to stand off every rough
21:30
Speaker 1: edge and call the result pride. I love the American
21:35
Speaker 1: story because it is so complicated. I love it because
21:39
Speaker 1: this country keeps producing people who force it to become
21:42
Speaker 1: better than it was. I love it because the Constitution
21:46
Speaker 1: gives us a way to argue and repair and restrain
21:50
Speaker 1: power and expand liberty, and to keep going when we
21:53
Speaker 1: get it wrong, and we have gotten plenty wrong. That's
21:59
Speaker 1: part of the story too. But I remain an optimist
22:04
Speaker 1: about America. I really do. I think it is possible
22:08
Speaker 1: that someday we will look back on the Trump era
22:10
Speaker 1: and be grateful for some of what had exposed. Not
22:15
Speaker 1: grateful for the damage, or for the cruelty, or for
22:17
Speaker 1: the corruption, but for the clarity. He has shown us
22:20
Speaker 1: what needs fixing. It's been an MRI. He has shown
22:24
Speaker 1: us how fragile norms are. He has shown us how
22:27
Speaker 1: much depends on restraint, institutions, character. He has shown us
22:34
Speaker 1: what happens when a president does not see the country
22:37
Speaker 1: as something larger than himself. And maybe that is the
22:41
Speaker 1: lesson of America two fifty. Not the celebration we deserve.
22:47
Speaker 1: In some ways, Donald Trump's doing all of us a
22:49
Speaker 1: favored by selfishly trying to steal this anniversary from us.
22:55
Speaker 1: We now see who he really is, So now it's
22:59
Speaker 1: not the celebration and we deserve. It's not the one
23:01
Speaker 1: we could have had. But we get a mirror, and
23:03
Speaker 1: the mirror is telling us something. The country is a
23:06
Speaker 1: lot bigger than Donald Trump. It is bigger than any president,
23:09
Speaker 1: and it's obviously bigger than any political party. And there's
23:13
Speaker 1: no one definition of patriotism. But it still needs leaders
23:15
Speaker 1: who understand that, it still needs citizens who insist on it,
23:20
Speaker 1: and it still needs people willing to say that the
23:22
Speaker 1: national story belongs to all of us, not just to
23:25
Speaker 1: whoever happens to hold power at any one moment. America
23:29
Speaker 1: at two fifty may be a lost opportunity. Donald Trump
23:34
Speaker 1: has absolutely sullied the brand of America, but America two
23:39
Speaker 1: seventy five does not have to be. Maybe by then
23:42
Speaker 1: we will want to make up for what we missed
23:45
Speaker 1: in this in this anniversary. Maybe by then we're going
23:52
Speaker 1: to remember how to celebrate the country without making the
23:55
Speaker 1: celebration feel like an endorsement of one man or one
23:58
Speaker 1: political movement. Maybe by then we will have learned again
24:02
Speaker 1: that the American story is the most powerful when it
24:05
Speaker 1: is told honestly right. We make other countries behave better
24:11
Speaker 1: when we own up to our mistakes. That story is
24:15
Speaker 1: still the most important one to me. For some people,
24:18
Speaker 1: the central text in their lives is religious, and I
24:21
Speaker 1: respect that. For me, the Constitution has always carried that
24:25
Speaker 1: kind of weight. So that's why I'm so angry and
24:29
Speaker 1: feel betrayed. I do I feel be traded as an
24:33
Speaker 1: American by him on. This constitution is not perfect, but
24:39
Speaker 1: it gives us a way to keep going. It gives
24:41
Speaker 1: a structure for disagreement. It gives us a method for repair.
24:49
Speaker 1: It gives us the possibility of becoming better without pretending
24:52
Speaker 1: we were always good. Maybe it makes some of the
24:54
Speaker 1: same promises that some religious texts do for people. And
24:59
Speaker 1: this is why I'm so pissed off. Not because I
25:02
Speaker 1: love the country less, but because I love the idea
25:05
Speaker 1: of America enough to resent seeing it cheapened by this man.
25:10
Speaker 1: America deserve better at two fifty Someday, I believe it
25:15
Speaker 1: will get better. Let's sin your hands. Don't let him
25:22
Speaker 1: steal your patriotism. You don't have to pay attention to
25:26
Speaker 1: anything he does. On the fourth of July belongs to you.
25:33
Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you
25:35
Speaker 1: by Chapter Now. Almost everything you hear about medicare is
25:39
Speaker 1: somebody quietly trying to steer you somewhere, and you're skeptical
25:45
Speaker 1: of that, as you should be. I get it. I mean,
25:48
Speaker 1: there's a federal lawsuit going on right now over exactly
25:51
Speaker 1: the companies that branded themselves as unbiased while allegedly pointing
25:55
Speaker 1: people toward whatever would pay them the most as some
25:59
Speaker 1: sort of So if your default is to distrust everyone
26:02
Speaker 1: in this space, honestly, I get it. I'm a bit
26:04
Speaker 1: distrustful these days myself. That's the whole reason I want
26:07
Speaker 1: to tell you about Chapter. They're independent medicare advisors whose
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Speaker 1: the day, they're advocating for you. They're not the insurance
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Speaker 1: of like almost like a concierge service. You're just there,
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Speaker 1: I need help. You're like customer service. You know the plan,
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Speaker 1: you know, help me navigate this again. So you ever
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Speaker 1: get hit with a wrongful medical bill, they'll help you
27:01
Speaker 1: fight it. They want to stay an advocate for you
27:04
Speaker 1: even after you've done this. So look, I get it.
27:08
Speaker 1: I think there's all sorts of space. You see a
27:11
Speaker 1: lot of people are throwing themselves in this healthcare space.
27:14
Speaker 1: What I like about these Chapter folks, I've spent time
27:17
Speaker 1: with them. This is a very transparent organization. It is Medicare,
27:22
Speaker 1: and all of its affiliated stuff can be very confusing.
27:26
Speaker 1: The whole point of this is to make this easier
27:29
Speaker 1: and less confusing. Okay, So look, take the skepticism you
27:33
Speaker 1: already have in all of this, point it at your
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Speaker 1: own plan for twenty minutes. It's free, there's no pressure,
27:39
Speaker 1: and then call Chapter today at nine eight zero seven
27:42
Speaker 1: three four three nine eight five. How with that, I
27:52
Speaker 1: want to go to a few things. I've done some
27:54
Speaker 1: short form videos on a few things, but I want
27:57
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about a few of the
27:59
Speaker 1: headlines that we've had over the last three or four days. One,
28:02
Speaker 1: let me tackle the court real quick, because I will
28:05
Speaker 1: say this, I think between the birthright citizenship case, the
28:08
Speaker 1: campaign finance case, and the Eging Carol case. Right, here's
28:14
Speaker 1: one thing that you cannot say, this is not a
28:17
Speaker 1: Trump court. Okay, it is a conservative court, but it
28:22
Speaker 1: is not a Trump court, and that is an important distinction.
28:25
Speaker 1: I think some of the coverage of the court, you know,
28:27
Speaker 1: this is where you know, this is why I'm doing
28:30
Speaker 1: what I'm doing, right, I don't you know, I have
28:32
Speaker 1: no desire to ever go back to this the world
28:36
Speaker 1: of legacy media because I just don't think. I just
28:38
Speaker 1: think that time is coming gone. Not in just my career,
28:41
Speaker 1: I think for legacy media in general. But you know,
28:44
Speaker 1: there's there's this, you know, binary way that the court
28:48
Speaker 1: gets covered, and it's complicated. It's ironic by the way
28:52
Speaker 1: that the trumpiest justices are two that he never appointed, right,
28:56
Speaker 1: the trumpiest justices or two that were appointed by H. W.
28:59
Speaker 1: Bush and George W. Bush. Stick that in your establishment
29:02
Speaker 1: hat and and stewing, right, But you see that that
29:09
Speaker 1: the that this is, this is a There is a
29:14
Speaker 1: majority conservative, no doubt. There are partisans on this court,
29:20
Speaker 1: but the court itself has not become partisans. And that's important.
29:26
Speaker 1: I will say this. The look the campaign finance decision is,
29:31
Speaker 1: you know, this court has been consistent on money, so
29:33
Speaker 1: it didn't surprise me, but it is shouldn't be lost
29:36
Speaker 1: on anybody. And this is where I think why so
29:38
Speaker 1: many in the left believe the Court just simply is
29:41
Speaker 1: pro Republican because two of their biggest decisions have basically
29:46
Speaker 1: bailed Republicans out here in the midterms. Decision one was
29:50
Speaker 1: the gutting of the voting right Zack that essentially greenlit
29:53
Speaker 1: you know, and it's not lost on me. It seems
29:55
Speaker 1: as if this Supreme Court will green light any Republican remap,
29:59
Speaker 1: but seems to not have the same enthusiasm for greenlighting
30:02
Speaker 1: democratic remaps. And yes, there were technical distinctions, and you
30:06
Speaker 1: can sit here and say that they're, you know, following
30:08
Speaker 1: the letter the law. They just seem to find the letters.
30:12
Speaker 1: The letters seem to be easier to find in red
30:14
Speaker 1: states than they do in blue states. But it's an
30:18
Speaker 1: important right, it is it is cut down the number
30:21
Speaker 1: of swing seats. And then this decision on campaign finance,
30:24
Speaker 1: And why is it such a bailout of the Republican
30:28
Speaker 1: Party in a moment that they needed a bailout, Because
30:31
Speaker 1: what it does is it allows their big donors to
30:35
Speaker 1: have their money go farther. Let me explain, so, right, Now,
30:39
Speaker 1: when you purchase a television ad as a campaign, the
30:44
Speaker 1: candidate trying to purchase that ad time has to be
30:47
Speaker 1: sold that ad time at the lowest rate. There is
30:51
Speaker 1: a special political rate, right, they're not allowed to gouge
30:54
Speaker 1: that outside groups have to pay the same rate that
30:58
Speaker 1: Colgate pays or that Perggressive Insurance pays. They got to
31:01
Speaker 1: pay the higher rate. And so what the court said
31:05
Speaker 1: is the party money. Now that is that for the
31:10
Speaker 1: National Party. So this is just the RNC, NRSC, NRCC, right,
31:15
Speaker 1: the National Party Committee, the Senate Committee and the House Committee,
31:18
Speaker 1: and the DNC, the d SC and the d triple
31:21
Speaker 1: C same construction there the National Party that they can
31:25
Speaker 1: now coordinate their spending and the money that is spent
31:29
Speaker 1: by the National Party to help a specific race, it
31:34
Speaker 1: can be used to buy the lowest ad rate possible. Well,
31:39
Speaker 1: this is why this matters, right. There used to be
31:41
Speaker 1: this distinction where candidate raised dollars were given the discount,
31:46
Speaker 1: but Party committee dollars or Independent Expenditure Committee dollars that
31:52
Speaker 1: are essentially where they can raise unlimited funds or huge six,
31:55
Speaker 1: seven and eight figure checks. Right, those those used to
32:04
Speaker 1: have to pay at a higher rate. Well, now that
32:07
Speaker 1: you could pay that lower rate. Well, Democrats are better
32:10
Speaker 1: at raising small dollar contributions than Republicans are these days.
32:13
Speaker 1: Act blue is this is why Republicans have targeted Act Blue.
32:17
Speaker 1: It's been an incredible organizing tool to sort of take
32:22
Speaker 1: grassroots money and move it smartly. The Republicans have tried
32:26
Speaker 1: to come up with the competitor and win Red to
32:27
Speaker 1: try to do the same, but they just really have
32:29
Speaker 1: a small donor problem. But on the six figure and
32:32
Speaker 1: seven figure checks, there are more Republicans six and seven
32:35
Speaker 1: figure donors than there are Democratic donors in that level, right,
32:40
Speaker 1: the super big donors both parties have about the same,
32:43
Speaker 1: But it's sort of this upper middle class donor, the
32:47
Speaker 1: person that can write the million dollar check, but that
32:49
Speaker 1: can't write the ten million dollar check, right, Republicans that
32:51
Speaker 1: Democrats have the same amount of people that can write
32:53
Speaker 1: the ten, fifteen, and twenty five million dollar checks. But
32:56
Speaker 1: where the Republicans dominate to say, I have a hell
32:58
Speaker 1: of a lot more people that will write the five
33:00
Speaker 1: hundred two willion dollar checks compared to the Democrats. And
33:04
Speaker 1: that's where this becomes a huge asset. So the point
33:08
Speaker 1: is this is a huge financial asset for particularly for
33:13
Speaker 1: House Republicans. But if you just look at it right,
33:15
Speaker 1: the national Republican Party committees and they're big donors, they're
33:19
Speaker 1: able to you know, I think this will financially bring
33:23
Speaker 1: Republicans basically on par and probably means that Republicans will
33:27
Speaker 1: end up out spending the Democrats. The last couple national cycles,
33:30
Speaker 1: Democrats have been able to outspend Republicans, out advertise Republicans
33:34
Speaker 1: because they've had this advantage of buying lower advertising rate,
33:39
Speaker 1: using dollars to buy lower advertising rates. Now the Republicans
33:43
Speaker 1: are able to essentially do the same thing. So it
33:45
Speaker 1: does this is a huge help in a midterm cycle
33:49
Speaker 1: where all the enthusiasms on Team Blue, and this is
33:53
Speaker 1: an attempt to mitigate it. So it's a huge deal.
33:57
Speaker 1: But you can't sit here and say the same court
33:58
Speaker 1: that does this but then also said that Egen Carroll
34:02
Speaker 1: had to be paid and also about birthright citizenship. So
34:06
Speaker 1: my point is it's a conservative court and this has
34:09
Speaker 1: been you know, that is fact. It is not a
34:11
Speaker 1: Trump court, and we should be relieved and thankful that
34:14
Speaker 1: it is not a Trump court. If there is one
34:16
Speaker 1: thing that this court is consistent about by the way,
34:20
Speaker 1: and I think another reason why birthright citizenship. If you
34:23
Speaker 1: care about this issue, you need to don't assume this
34:26
Speaker 1: is done. The thing you need to be concerned about
34:31
Speaker 1: is what this court. Well, this court will show deference
34:36
Speaker 1: to Congress if they are explicit in what they want. Right.
34:40
Speaker 1: If you want to prevent the firing of some of
34:42
Speaker 1: these independent you need to be more explicit and exactly
34:46
Speaker 1: what the regulatory body should do. What happens when certain
34:51
Speaker 1: people end up being fired by the president, How does
34:54
Speaker 1: the replacement process work? Right? I think a good lesson
34:58
Speaker 1: has been learned in the Director of National Intelligence and
35:01
Speaker 1: how the statute was very specific. If Congress wants to
35:05
Speaker 1: protect the independent regulators at the SEC, the FTC, the FCC, FEC,
35:10
Speaker 1: and at the FED, I think it's it's clear that
35:14
Speaker 1: Congress needs to be more explicit and exactly how it
35:18
Speaker 1: wants this regulatory body to function, how vacancies are supposed
35:24
Speaker 1: to be filled, who gets to fill it, what are
35:26
Speaker 1: the qualifications. And it's clear to me that if you
35:30
Speaker 1: add more on the on the side of the statute,
35:33
Speaker 1: you make it harder for the courts to simply default
35:38
Speaker 1: to the executive authority and that's what this court is
35:41
Speaker 1: gonna do, all right. They're going to continue to default
35:44
Speaker 1: to the executive unless there's explicit legislative language here that's
35:49
Speaker 1: put into the statute. So I think you're going to
35:54
Speaker 1: see a conservative effort to try to restrict some part
35:57
Speaker 1: of birthright citizenship. Maybe it's birth tourism or something like that,
36:01
Speaker 1: and the courts may be more open to something like this,
36:03
Speaker 1: but it's it's going to have to come from the
36:05
Speaker 1: legislative branch. But that, to me is the big lesson
36:09
Speaker 1: that policymakers should take away from this court that if
36:13
Speaker 1: you want to protect some of the regulatory powers of
36:16
Speaker 1: these quasi independent agencies in the executive branch, you've got
36:19
Speaker 1: to be more explicit. I know this sounds a little wonky,
36:22
Speaker 1: but I think that this is the lesson, and this
36:24
Speaker 1: is what we're going to find out. Right. Until Congress
36:26
Speaker 1: is a functional body and cares about its independence again,
36:30
Speaker 1: we're going to continue to have these sort of problems
36:32
Speaker 1: between the executive and the judiciary because of the way
36:36
Speaker 1: Congress is abdicated its responsibilities. Now, a quick little thought
36:41
Speaker 1: on what happened in Colorado, and I think the question
36:45
Speaker 1: is are we seeing right, The is this has the
36:50
Speaker 1: DSA movement broken through from the coasts into the heartland.
36:55
Speaker 1: And I just simply think to TBD, all right, Denver
36:59
Speaker 1: is a I think a small sample size. I'll go
37:02
Speaker 1: back to what I said before. The real test for
37:04
Speaker 1: the DSA movement and DSA adjacent movement and the Justice
37:07
Speaker 1: Democrats is going to be Michigan. And frankly, the real
37:10
Speaker 1: test isn't Michigan on primary day with Abdul Sayad. It
37:13
Speaker 1: is whether if he's the nominating whether he can win
37:15
Speaker 1: the general election. Right, And that is that is that
37:19
Speaker 1: is going to be the big I think the big
37:21
Speaker 1: judgment on that front. But I think you can't discuss
37:26
Speaker 1: the success of the DSA candidate in Denver on Tuesday
37:30
Speaker 1: night and ignore what also happened with John Hickenlooper where
37:34
Speaker 1: he got held under sixty percent by somebody at bet
37:37
Speaker 1: nine to one, and the loss by Michael Bennett in
37:43
Speaker 1: the gubernatorial primary to the City Attorney General Phil Wiser.
37:49
Speaker 1: If there was a common threat between the the GAT race,
37:54
Speaker 1: the gov race, and the and the Senate race, it
37:58
Speaker 1: was all three sort of Washington figures here, because obviously
38:03
Speaker 1: Bennett wasn't the incumbent, but he kind of he kind
38:05
Speaker 1: of ended up being treated as the incumbent. The critique
38:09
Speaker 1: that seemed to hit that was hardest for them to
38:13
Speaker 1: push back on was this idea that hey, you're part
38:16
Speaker 1: of the system that created this mess and you have
38:18
Speaker 1: not done enough about it. In fact, you, Michael Bennett
38:20
Speaker 1: even voted to confirm a Trump cabinet secretary. You John
38:23
Speaker 1: Hick and Hooper even confirmed. And this is what we
38:26
Speaker 1: saw with the Tea Party early on, where a firing
38:31
Speaker 1: offense would be something like that, where that used to
38:34
Speaker 1: be not considered a fireable offense, sort of the confirmation
38:38
Speaker 1: of cabinet secretaries, which is just kind of like perfunctory
38:41
Speaker 1: to many people. When that starts right, you saw the
38:45
Speaker 1: right would just get mad that they even by confirming
38:49
Speaker 1: an Obama a cabinet official, you've given, you've accepted the
38:54
Speaker 1: premise that he can govern or whatever it is. And
38:56
Speaker 1: I think there is this anger on the left that
38:59
Speaker 1: feels very similar to that. We saw that sort of
39:02
Speaker 1: your anger on the right. And if you're fighting Trump,
39:05
Speaker 1: you need to be fighting them all the time. You
39:07
Speaker 1: can't ever give an inch. And what seemed to unify
39:12
Speaker 1: in what hit all three of those races. Is was
39:15
Speaker 1: was if you if you just want, you know, you
39:19
Speaker 1: need to get caught fighting, is what it was. And
39:24
Speaker 1: I have to say, I mean, you know, I saw
39:26
Speaker 1: somebody note with these New York Times polls that showed
39:28
Speaker 1: that the you know, the candidate seems to be the
39:30
Speaker 1: safest is Roy Cooper, and there needs to be more
39:32
Speaker 1: notice of how did Roy Cooper do this? Well, I've
39:34
Speaker 1: got a simple answer. Roy Cooper avoided a primary. And
39:39
Speaker 1: you know, we're in a moment right now, just like
39:41
Speaker 1: we saw it's like how did Glenn Younkin win in
39:42
Speaker 1: Virginia and he didn't have a real primary. We're in
39:45
Speaker 1: a moment right now where this is a restless These
39:47
Speaker 1: are restless electorates. The base of the Republican Party distrusted
39:51
Speaker 1: its establishment. The base of the Democratic Party basically looks
39:55
Speaker 1: at the second election at Trump and says, okay, this
39:57
Speaker 1: is now a reflection on you guys. You guys had
39:59
Speaker 1: a chance to eradicate them, and you fail. And anybody
40:02
Speaker 1: associated with the with the Biden era in twenty four
40:06
Speaker 1: and let this be a lesson to Pete Bootages. Let
40:09
Speaker 1: this be a lesson to anybody that Kamala Harris. If
40:13
Speaker 1: you're if you've got fingerprints in the Biden era, they're
40:17
Speaker 1: going to be voters are saying, you didn't do enough
40:19
Speaker 1: to stop Trump the first time, why should we trust
40:21
Speaker 1: you with power this time? That may be what we're
40:24
Speaker 1: hearing out of here. And this is why I'm not
40:28
Speaker 1: convinced the Republicans are going to easily be able to say, hey,
40:31
Speaker 1: look the Democrats are going crazy left. I think it's
40:35
Speaker 1: something that could that they can weaponize for a presidential race.
40:38
Speaker 1: I think it's a little harder to weaponize in different races.
40:41
Speaker 1: In fact, the New York Times polling shows me that
40:44
Speaker 1: I think Iowa was one of those places where you
40:46
Speaker 1: see the numbers where people say, yeah, I think the
40:48
Speaker 1: National Party's too liberal, But I don't believe that of
40:51
Speaker 1: my nominee in my state right, and in Iowa, like
40:54
Speaker 1: Turrek does better than the national brand, and it's almost
40:57
Speaker 1: consistent across the board. So the fact that voters see
41:01
Speaker 1: a distinction between their candidate and the national brand, I
41:04
Speaker 1: think tells you that this is going to be I
41:06
Speaker 1: think harder. I think it's I'm not as convinced that
41:10
Speaker 1: DSA is a is full baggage. Yet in some of
41:14
Speaker 1: these races, especially when you have an unpopular president. All
41:16
Speaker 1: this I'm not saying it eventually isn't a problematic, and
41:19
Speaker 1: I think it becomes. You know, the real question is
41:23
Speaker 1: what happens if you know, there's sort of to me,
41:26
Speaker 1: there's three outcomes that will determine this sort of civil
41:32
Speaker 1: war that's perhaps going to take place inside the Democratic Party.
41:35
Speaker 1: There's sort of three outcomes that I think, depending on
41:41
Speaker 1: what happens, will trigger different types of fights. So if
41:47
Speaker 1: Democrats win both the House and the Senate, I don't think,
41:50
Speaker 1: you know, I think Kim Jeffries is going to have
41:51
Speaker 1: a fairly smooth path to the speakership. I don't think
41:54
Speaker 1: you will see the Justice Democrats or DSA adjacent Democrats
41:58
Speaker 1: or DSA ers who look like they're going to be
42:00
Speaker 1: a caucus of somewhere between twelve and twelve and twenty
42:04
Speaker 1: right twenty in the high end, sort of ten to
42:06
Speaker 1: twelve on the low end. You know, if if Democrats
42:11
Speaker 1: are picking up more seats than the entire size of
42:16
Speaker 1: the Justice Democrats DSA caucus, then you should have nothing
42:20
Speaker 1: to worry about. But if Democrats win the House, but
42:23
Speaker 1: don't win the Senate. That's where things I think get
42:26
Speaker 1: hinky for a Nakim Jeffries and that vote for speaker,
42:30
Speaker 1: because I do think a failure to win the Senate,
42:32
Speaker 1: you're going to have fingerpointing going both ways. Right, You're
42:35
Speaker 1: going to have the establishment pointing to the socialists and
42:39
Speaker 1: the progressives and saying it's your fault, we didn't pick
42:42
Speaker 1: up the Senate. And you're going to have the left wing,
42:46
Speaker 1: the socialist progressive saying, hey, we picked up the House.
42:49
Speaker 1: You guys suck, Schumer sucks. That's the reason. And in fact,
42:52
Speaker 1: we need to put some more guardrails on Jeffries because
42:55
Speaker 1: we don't trust Jeffries down the road. So that's a
42:59
Speaker 1: sin an area where the split decision, right, I think,
43:03
Speaker 1: totally sets. You know, then of course there's a scenario
43:07
Speaker 1: where where nobody wins anything, right, where the Republicans hold
43:11
Speaker 1: both the House and the Senate. That's Katie brought to
43:14
Speaker 1: the door. That becomes existential crisis and it's like everybody
43:17
Speaker 1: could get could get thrown out. But that is I
43:21
Speaker 1: think that's the scenario we're saying. Look, ultimately it's cleared
43:27
Speaker 1: Democratic voters are fired up about fighting Trump. The question
43:31
Speaker 1: is what can get these voters to fifty percent plus
43:34
Speaker 1: one in a general election. Resistance to Trump has not
43:38
Speaker 1: been enough to win over these voters. Or if it would,
43:40
Speaker 1: you would you you know, there wouldn't be a second
43:42
Speaker 1: Trump term? Is it? Affordability is a corruption? Every day?
43:48
Speaker 1: Trump makes it a lot easier for Democrats to make
43:50
Speaker 1: their case right. And that's probably the best asset they
43:53
Speaker 1: got it going, is that Donald Trump refuses to retreat,
43:57
Speaker 1: in fact, the fact that he wants to nationalize his
43:59
Speaker 1: elections and have a national convention in September. I promise you,
44:05
Speaker 1: I think James tallerco and others would help fund this
44:09
Speaker 1: convention to make sure please Republicans go ahead, get closer
44:13
Speaker 1: to Trump nationalize this election. A nationalized election is terrible
44:19
Speaker 1: for the party in power. And I don't care where
44:21
Speaker 1: you are, right, that is exactly what you make this
44:25
Speaker 1: a referendum on Trump. I promise you I know what
44:29
Speaker 1: that result is going to be. And him leaning into
44:32
Speaker 1: this convention, I get their thinking. Their thinking as well,
44:35
Speaker 1: they've got to find they've got to find a way
44:37
Speaker 1: to motivate the Trump voter to show up to the
44:39
Speaker 1: midterms because they this may simply be an energy turnout contest.
44:44
Speaker 1: That's true in a few states, that's not necessarily true
44:48
Speaker 1: in some other states. Now again I get I think
44:50
Speaker 1: the Republican line of thinking on this, and I get
44:53
Speaker 1: to it more later in this show when I talk
44:55
Speaker 1: about the potential for an Alito retirement is whatever it
44:59
Speaker 1: takes for the to get that presidential voter to show
45:01
Speaker 1: up in a mid Trump So this is the whole
45:04
Speaker 1: idea of the Trump experiment, that somehow it's going to
45:06
Speaker 1: get MAGA going. I think that, you know, it's like,
45:14
Speaker 1: put it this way, if you signed Justin Verlander, do
45:18
Speaker 1: you think you've got Justin Verlander from fifteen years ago,
45:20
Speaker 1: or do you have a version of Justin Verlander who
45:22
Speaker 1: might have lost his fastball. I think Donald Trump's lost
45:28
Speaker 1: his fastball. So I don't know if he can motivate
45:29
Speaker 1: the way people think he can motivate. So we shall see.
45:33
Speaker 1: So anyway, I'm gonna look, I really wanted to spend
45:36
Speaker 1: more time. I'm stelling. I'm angry. I'm really just I'm
45:39
Speaker 1: sorry that this president screwed up an opportunity that could
45:44
Speaker 1: have been an incredible educational experiment experience. All of these things.
45:48
Speaker 1: It's so depressing because it was a real opportunity and
45:54
Speaker 1: he ruined it. And he's the reason why we have
45:58
Speaker 1: we're all feeling kind of disappointed and how and how
46:03
Speaker 1: this has all turned out. This should be a better party,
46:06
Speaker 1: this should be a better celebration, but we just we
46:11
Speaker 1: have the wrong person in charge. He just can't. He
46:14
Speaker 1: doesn't know what it's like. He doesn't know what it's
46:17
Speaker 1: like to be an American. And that's the God's honest true.
46:21
Speaker 1: All right. With that, it's taking a break and we've
46:25
Speaker 1: come back my conversation on what the centrist wing of
46:30
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, how they plan to deal with the
46:33
Speaker 1: rising progressive plan of the party. Well, one of the
46:44
Speaker 1: things that I would assume most of you now know
46:47
Speaker 1: when it comes to my thought put together, is that
46:49
Speaker 1: they're coalitions. There is no there is no in theory.
46:54
Speaker 1: I think both the Democratic Coalition and the Republican Coalition
46:57
Speaker 1: have two or three political parties underneath it if we
46:59
Speaker 1: were a parliamentary system. And what that means right now
47:03
Speaker 1: inside the Democratic Party is that there is a call
47:06
Speaker 1: it a fight, call it a debate, you know, about
47:09
Speaker 1: the direction of where the party should go. You have
47:11
Speaker 1: progressives very loudly wanting to shift the party in one direction.
47:15
Speaker 1: And then you've got what was in the nineties called
47:20
Speaker 1: the DLC, the Bill Clinton wing of the party, maybe
47:25
Speaker 1: the blue Dogs. However you want to call it, the
47:27
Speaker 1: sort of center left, and one could argue they've the
47:31
Speaker 1: center left has suffered from not having a name that
47:34
Speaker 1: everybody is comfortable with. That doesn't sound like it's a
47:36
Speaker 1: pejorative when you say things like that. Well, my guest
47:40
Speaker 1: today is Debbie Cox Bulton. She is the head of
47:44
Speaker 1: New dem Leaders, which bills itself as a center left
47:48
Speaker 1: group and trying to see if they can come up
47:52
Speaker 1: with the agenda that can keep a majority coalition together. Debbie,
47:57
Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast.
47:58
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me.
48:00
Speaker 1: Let me start with that branding issue, because we a
48:03
Speaker 1: lot of times, you know, when I'm on the air
48:06
Speaker 1: doing election coverage, you know, we'll talk about a Democratic
48:10
Speaker 1: primary and it's the progressive candidate versus sometimes is it mainstream, Well,
48:15
Speaker 1: that can be offensive to people, and progressive, Okay, we're
48:17
Speaker 1: mainstream too. Is it legacy, well, that sounds like the
48:21
Speaker 1: little derogatory right, which is pragmatic. Well, sometimes those in
48:26
Speaker 1: the center left thing This is not about pragma, were
48:28
Speaker 1: not compromising. This is a belief system, which is I
48:31
Speaker 1: feel like the center left doesn't have a good brand yet,
48:34
Speaker 1: like the one Moniker that doesn't feel like there's a
48:38
Speaker 1: hidden pejorative in how you describe the center left.
48:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair.
48:42
Speaker 3: I mean I think that a lot of the words
48:43
Speaker 3: that people think of now is dirty by compromise.
48:47
Speaker 1: And calling the collaboration now collaboration, right, amusing language like
48:52
Speaker 1: cross partisan. We don't say bipartisan anymore.
48:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I take your point. I mean, if I
48:57
Speaker 2: have to say one.
48:57
Speaker 3: Thing about New Deal leaders and others folks in our
49:00
Speaker 3: kind of center left ecosystem, I call to get shit done,
49:03
Speaker 3: Democrats to be honest with you. And if you think
49:05
Speaker 3: about some of the governors that kind of govern in
49:08
Speaker 3: that way, a lot of whom are being bandied about
49:10
Speaker 3: for maybe presidential twenty eight, a lot of them I
49:13
Speaker 3: think fall under that category, whether it's Josh Shapiro or
49:15
Speaker 3: Andy Basheer or Gretchen Whitmer, kind of to fix the roads,
49:18
Speaker 3: make government work for people. I think that's really if
49:22
Speaker 3: I had to, if I would want someone to think
49:24
Speaker 3: about the center left and what would that mean, I
49:26
Speaker 3: would be very happy if that's what they thought about.
49:28
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting governors are always been sort of
49:31
Speaker 1: the place that, you know, whether when the Republican Party
49:34
Speaker 1: is trying to present itself as reformers, they'll point to governors.
49:37
Speaker 1: When the Democratic Party once to say, hey we've got reformers,
49:40
Speaker 1: point to governors. And obviously there's a lot more leeway
49:42
Speaker 1: you get as a governor ideologically, and there's an expectation
49:48
Speaker 1: of getting stuff done that allows you to sort of
49:50
Speaker 1: get away with compromising that maybe as a legislature legislator
49:55
Speaker 1: you don't have that luxury on this front. I mean
50:01
Speaker 1: it because it seems to be it's always the case
50:03
Speaker 1: that the governors are where you at least see stuff happen.
50:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so a new Deal, we are a
50:11
Speaker 3: group of carefully chosen center left, pragmatic wheneber. We want
50:16
Speaker 3: to call it state and local luctal officials below the
50:19
Speaker 3: level of governor. So a lot of our folks have
50:21
Speaker 3: risen up with three governors now who came through a
50:23
Speaker 3: New Deal. But I would also add to what you
50:25
Speaker 3: just said is mayors and county officials kind of those
50:27
Speaker 3: executive branch folks and the pipeline of those people who
50:30
Speaker 3: are having to fix the potholes or bounce the budget
50:35
Speaker 3: in a way that legislative bodies often, as you say,
50:38
Speaker 3: kind of you know you can you can get a
50:40
Speaker 3: win by just scoring a political point. You don't actually
50:42
Speaker 3: have to deliver that. That is a distinction. Obviously we
50:46
Speaker 3: still have what we have a lot of state legislators
50:48
Speaker 3: that we work with. They're doing great things too, but
50:50
Speaker 3: there is a difference when you have to actually when
50:52
Speaker 3: the buck stops here, if you will, with some of
50:53
Speaker 3: the executives.
50:55
Speaker 1: How look, what you just described to me sounds like
50:58
Speaker 1: the old DLC Democratic leader Ship Council, which was started
51:02
Speaker 1: in the mid eighties sort of after Mondo, when the
51:04
Speaker 1: sort of old labor liberalism was seen as sort of
51:07
Speaker 1: a tired, a tired organizing messaging outlet for the Democrats
51:15
Speaker 1: and those that were trying to sort of shift the
51:18
Speaker 1: party to not being so antagonistic towards business back in
51:21
Speaker 1: the day. That would be I would argue the sort
51:25
Speaker 1: of the what I think Al from would agree with
51:27
Speaker 1: that description. He was the founder of the DLC. What's
51:31
Speaker 1: different and what's the same about what you're doing?
51:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So I spent fifteen years at the DLC
51:36
Speaker 3: and was arctually a staff at one point, and so
51:38
Speaker 3: I'm quite familiar. And I mean, look, I really grew
51:41
Speaker 3: up there, to be honest with you, So I think
51:43
Speaker 3: that there are some things that I feel like are
51:47
Speaker 3: common DNA that I really learned lessons there is.
51:50
Speaker 2: The most of which was.
51:52
Speaker 3: You've got a modern you know, we've got to modernized
51:53
Speaker 3: progressive politics for the twenty first century. If nothing else,
51:56
Speaker 3: it was you can't stay still, that you've got to
51:58
Speaker 3: have bold experimentation, and that you've got to stick true
52:01
Speaker 3: to your values. I think that some of the DLC
52:04
Speaker 3: words like responsibility, opportunity and communities still ring really true,
52:09
Speaker 3: but that you know, you've got to be willing to
52:11
Speaker 3: do things differently for different ages. You also have to
52:14
Speaker 3: be willing to say when something's not working and say
52:16
Speaker 3: that was great we tried that, you know, we had
52:19
Speaker 3: a you know, a vision for why that might work.
52:22
Speaker 2: So I think there's a lot of that DNA in
52:24
Speaker 2: New Deal.
52:25
Speaker 3: I'd also say that as Democrats who believe the government
52:30
Speaker 3: can do good things, we have a special responsibility to
52:33
Speaker 3: make it work work well as Democrats, and I think
52:36
Speaker 3: That's another piece that sometimes we don't always focus on
52:39
Speaker 3: across the party lines, is how do we actually make sure.
52:42
Speaker 2: The government is delivering results?
52:43
Speaker 3: So so some of those things are are are There's
52:46
Speaker 3: definitely some similarities there in our in our outlook, if
52:49
Speaker 3: you will. I think that a big difference between DLC
52:53
Speaker 3: and New Deal is and you know, and we were
52:55
Speaker 3: joking before we came on that a lot of the
52:57
Speaker 3: New Deal layers that we work with that are you know,
52:59
Speaker 3: their twenties or thirties might not not even know what
53:00
Speaker 3: the DLC is. So this is not, you know, some
53:02
Speaker 3: kind of veiled new new DLC.
53:05
Speaker 2: But it does get our characters.
53:07
Speaker 1: We know, when the when the website Daily Coasts first
53:11
Speaker 1: came up and running, I think their north star was
53:15
Speaker 1: outing anybody that had ever been a member of the
53:17
Speaker 1: DLC and ostracizing them from the Democratic coal Yeah.
53:21
Speaker 2: I think that that's right. I think that that's right.
53:22
Speaker 3: And the thing I love about the New Deal leaders
53:24
Speaker 3: that we work with, they don't always like they have
53:27
Speaker 3: to choose. You kind of made that insinuated that we
53:29
Speaker 3: were talking about governors. You know, they don't feel like
53:32
Speaker 3: we do in Washington sometimes that we have to loudly
53:35
Speaker 3: declare ourselves which part of the party we're on. They
53:37
Speaker 3: can build these kind of broad coalitions. But you know,
53:40
Speaker 3: the other thing that I would just say, this is
53:41
Speaker 3: very unique about New Deal and is kind of our
53:42
Speaker 3: north star, is that we go out and choose elected
53:45
Speaker 3: officials to be part of a New Deal. So we
53:47
Speaker 3: have a very we're very picking about twenty percent acceptance
53:50
Speaker 3: right of people who are nominated and then join, And
53:52
Speaker 3: we're looking for really the most exceptional, pragmatic, effective and
53:56
Speaker 3: arising state and local elective officials. And we feel like
53:59
Speaker 3: our job is to help them govern effectively because of
54:02
Speaker 3: why I said, because we think that is actually the
54:04
Speaker 3: best politics. If you govern well, you'll rise up the
54:06
Speaker 3: ranks and change the trajectory of our party in our country.
54:10
Speaker 3: But also that we give them a platform.
54:12
Speaker 2: I feel like if New Deal leaders were speaking for
54:13
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party, there'd be a lot of people who
54:15
Speaker 2: currently are like, I'm not sure that's my Democratic Party.
54:18
Speaker 3: Would say, but wait, that sounds right, that doesn't sound crazy.
54:21
Speaker 3: I feel like that that person speaking to me. So
54:24
Speaker 3: we try to do both things. Help them govern and
54:25
Speaker 3: then give them a platform for their voices.
54:27
Speaker 1: So you're not incubating people to run for office. You're
54:31
Speaker 1: trying to find them after they've been elected.
54:35
Speaker 2: Correct, which is a really unique space for us.
54:37
Speaker 3: There's a lot of people who are focused on elections,
54:40
Speaker 3: which is super important, and the campaign side of things.
54:44
Speaker 2: We work on the governing side of the House.
54:46
Speaker 3: And my thought again, I think that our kind of
54:49
Speaker 3: DNA is that if we pick people who can govern
54:52
Speaker 3: well when they are city council.
54:53
Speaker 2: And then go to mayor and then go to governor,
54:55
Speaker 2: that this pipeline will serve us well. And it's work.
54:59
Speaker 3: You've been doing this for fifteen years. We have now
55:01
Speaker 3: three governors Josh Shapiro, Josh Stein, and Matt Meyer who
55:04
Speaker 3: were New Deal leaders, Pete Boudha Judge obviously probably the most.
55:07
Speaker 2: Famous New Deal lum.
55:09
Speaker 3: And nineteen members of Congress who started out as city
55:11
Speaker 3: council members or state legislators who are now three in
55:14
Speaker 3: the US Senate and sixteen in the US House. So
55:17
Speaker 3: the pipeline over fifteen years has really shown itself to
55:19
Speaker 3: be to be vibrant and important. And I would say that,
55:24
Speaker 3: you know, the other thing is we're not out there
55:26
Speaker 3: trying to just to.
55:26
Speaker 2: Tell them what they should do. I think a lot
55:29
Speaker 2: of you know, the two things.
55:30
Speaker 3: One is people are looking at elections kind of think
55:32
Speaker 3: that we'll just elect the right people and then that
55:35
Speaker 3: will be it.
55:35
Speaker 2: And to me, it's like that's just people run for office.
55:38
Speaker 2: They can do something.
55:39
Speaker 3: So who's there to help them once they get into
55:42
Speaker 3: office to share and spread good ideas to have those
55:45
Speaker 3: kind of skill development things they need? So we would
55:47
Speaker 3: never do that with the CEO. And these are the
55:48
Speaker 3: most These are people who are affecting our daily lives,
55:51
Speaker 3: probably more than the average CEO. So who's helping them
55:53
Speaker 3: once they get elected? And then secondly, you know this
55:57
Speaker 3: this idea that that again is they're rising up the
55:59
Speaker 3: rank that will change kind of the whole brand of
56:03
Speaker 3: Democratic Party and we think that that's really important.
56:07
Speaker 1: Well, this gets it to look, this is a fight
56:09
Speaker 1: for control of the brand, it feels like as much
56:12
Speaker 1: as anything right and the fact of the matter, and look,
56:16
Speaker 1: I we began our discussion offline. The Pew Center put
56:22
Speaker 1: out it's semi annual. They've done this nine times and
56:25
Speaker 1: forty years, so I guess they did it about every
56:27
Speaker 1: three or four years. A typology report trying to cut
56:30
Speaker 1: basically saying hey, Americans don't fit easily into two categories.
56:33
Speaker 1: They actually fit into like mine, right, And here's what
56:38
Speaker 1: your challenge is from the place you come from. And
56:42
Speaker 1: I think where you're where those that are more empathetic
56:46
Speaker 1: and sympathetic to what you're preaching come from, is that,
56:50
Speaker 1: by nature, it's not a loud part of the democratic coalition.
56:56
Speaker 1: And in fact, when you know, I always say that,
57:00
Speaker 1: you know, I prefer moderate and temperament. That doesn't mean
57:04
Speaker 1: I prefer that in my ideological politics, but I think
57:08
Speaker 1: you confuse moderation sometimes between temperament and compromise. And the
57:16
Speaker 1: loudest voices online and the dominant conversation in the left
57:22
Speaker 1: and the right is dominated by those that are online.
57:24
Speaker 1: And according to Pew, the two groups that are the
57:27
Speaker 1: most online are these two loud bases. It's basically MAGA
57:32
Speaker 1: and the progressives, and they're super wired. They're dictating the
57:38
Speaker 1: conversation and it's drowning out what is a majority of
57:43
Speaker 1: everybody else. You know, if they're in the fifteen yard lines,
57:46
Speaker 1: everybody else is somewhere in the middle, and they don't
57:49
Speaker 1: like the loudness, but they can't break through. Can you
57:52
Speaker 1: break Can you be a radical? Moderate. Can you be
57:56
Speaker 1: a pt Barnum and moderate? Right?
57:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. Actually we want to be the
58:02
Speaker 2: pet bart and Motters. Yeah, we have to be right.
58:05
Speaker 2: I would say two things. One, I completely agree with
58:08
Speaker 2: you that I think that I get.
58:09
Speaker 3: Nothing frustrates me more than this idea that if you
58:12
Speaker 3: are pragmatic or you know, results oriented, you're somehow mushi
58:16
Speaker 3: the mushy middle constant.
58:18
Speaker 1: Marle Alexander complains about this at his memoir and he goes,
58:21
Speaker 1: just because I talk with the other side doesn't mean
58:24
Speaker 1: I'm not conservative anymore. Like this, like this is my
58:27
Speaker 1: belief system. I just know how the god starred organization works. Yeah, no,
58:32
Speaker 1: exactly right.
58:33
Speaker 2: And I see on the Democratic side right now, you know,
58:35
Speaker 2: we hear this a lot, right that.
58:36
Speaker 3: You know what do democrats want? They want a fighter?
58:38
Speaker 3: And I just absolutely reject the notion that fighting equals
58:42
Speaker 3: only yelling louder I just like reject that notion, like
58:45
Speaker 3: what you.
58:45
Speaker 1: Know, Collage shows it. It is one of those I
58:49
Speaker 1: don't know how people simultaneously say they want a fighter
58:51
Speaker 1: who compromises, right.
58:53
Speaker 3: Exactly, I want a fighter, and I get I want
58:55
Speaker 3: people by eighty percent want to you know, pizza works.
58:59
Speaker 1: The voters don't know everything that they.
59:00
Speaker 3: Want, zetel, but I think that, I mean, I think
59:02
Speaker 3: what they want are people who are fighting for them,
59:05
Speaker 3: right and so, and that is a little bit different
59:06
Speaker 3: than just fighting for fighting's sake. But the other point
59:10
Speaker 3: I wanted to make on your point about the online thing,
59:12
Speaker 3: I mean, I always get surprised when I'm reminded, like
59:18
Speaker 3: the percentage of Democratic primary voters. I think I saw
59:21
Speaker 3: something from Third Way recently that post online daily or
59:24
Speaker 3: weekly is something crazy. Don't quote me, but twenty percent
59:28
Speaker 3: of you know, Democratic primary voters or online.
59:30
Speaker 1: Daily or or eighty of the left wing content exactly.
59:36
Speaker 3: And this is the problem, right, So to try to
59:38
Speaker 3: remind candidates, to try and rend elect officials, to try
59:41
Speaker 3: and wind voters that those people who are the allowed
59:43
Speaker 3: est do not, you know, I just do not speak
59:45
Speaker 3: for the.
59:45
Speaker 2: Majority of people.
59:47
Speaker 3: And it's it's a problem not just for our brand
59:49
Speaker 3: and which I agree with, but it's also a problem
59:51
Speaker 3: for our politics. I mean, basically, like people are just
59:53
Speaker 3: tuning out and they you know, there's also something recently
59:57
Speaker 3: about you know, I think it was the New York
59:59
Speaker 3: Times about you know, are you over the last five
1:00:02
Speaker 3: or ten years more likely or less likely to say
1:00:04
Speaker 3: something out loud, you know, if you're a moderate or
1:00:06
Speaker 3: a liberal, and liberals have gotten more involvement and moderates
1:00:09
Speaker 3: are feeling less, you know, like they want to stick
1:00:12
Speaker 3: their head out because everybody's going to get whacked off.
1:00:14
Speaker 3: And so, you know, that's that's a challenge again, not
1:00:17
Speaker 3: just for the brand, but for our politics. I mean,
1:00:19
Speaker 3: what in what other area of our life do we
1:00:21
Speaker 3: not do we have to always agree with people right
1:00:24
Speaker 3: that you can know. I mean, that's not true with
1:00:26
Speaker 3: my husband, that's not true with my kids, that's not
1:00:27
Speaker 3: true my coworkers. So I think we've got to get
1:00:30
Speaker 3: to a different politics where we can have those forums,
1:00:32
Speaker 3: where you can have the model people disagreeing and kind
1:00:36
Speaker 3: of a you know, are more civil and you know,
1:00:39
Speaker 3: constructive way.
1:00:40
Speaker 1: Look, I mean, I think we we all know this,
1:00:44
Speaker 1: we all say we want this, and yet when given
1:00:47
Speaker 1: the opportunity, we don't take it.
1:00:49
Speaker 2: Well, is that true? Or is it that?
1:00:51
Speaker 3: And I'd be curious, yeah, to know what you mean
1:00:55
Speaker 3: by that sentence. But I also feel like it's also
1:00:57
Speaker 3: probably worth noting that it's not just online that I
1:01:00
Speaker 3: feel like these comfort this is happening. I think this
1:01:02
Speaker 3: is also spilled out not I mean, the media plays
1:01:04
Speaker 3: in a hugely important role, but is very much like
1:01:07
Speaker 3: with the clicks needed that it's easier to get the
1:01:09
Speaker 3: extremes fighting on TV.
1:01:11
Speaker 2: So it's kind of everywhere.
1:01:12
Speaker 1: It's not just all this gets into this gets it
1:01:15
Speaker 1: to the incentive structures, right, and that's and this to
1:01:19
Speaker 1: me is another challenge for someone in your situation. And
1:01:22
Speaker 1: I you know, full disclosure, I'm trying to help some
1:01:25
Speaker 1: folks who are trying to break through, who are not
1:01:27
Speaker 1: a member of either party, who are trying to see
1:01:29
Speaker 1: if there's a voice for sort of like, are you
1:01:31
Speaker 1: tired of this partisanship? Can't we get pragmatic solutions?
1:01:34
Speaker 2: Yeah?
1:01:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, the hard part of it is
1:01:42
Speaker 1: is that the system rewards sort of outlandish the system
1:01:48
Speaker 1: rewards I mean, in some ways, the more you're the
1:01:51
Speaker 1: main character of a story, it doesn't matter whether you're
1:01:54
Speaker 1: the villain or the hero. If you're the main character,
1:01:59
Speaker 1: your brand equity is going to go up. I mean,
1:02:01
Speaker 1: we can kind of a long debate This Grand Platiner
1:02:04
Speaker 1: situation is the most fascinating social experiment as far as
1:02:07
Speaker 1: i'm concerned that.
1:02:08
Speaker 2: The exactly description we're going with.
1:02:10
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I'm going to go with that. As far
1:02:12
Speaker 1: as the left is the Democrats are concerned, I think, yeah, Look,
1:02:16
Speaker 1: my greatest fear of a second Trump term was that
1:02:19
Speaker 1: it was going to change the left more than it
1:02:20
Speaker 1: was going to change the right. And I do think
1:02:23
Speaker 1: we've seen this already and that the whole if you
1:02:26
Speaker 1: can't beat them, join them. And I hear progressives all
1:02:29
Speaker 1: the time going I want my own Trump. I want
1:02:32
Speaker 1: to be able to run rough shot through the executive
1:02:35
Speaker 1: branch the way he has. And it's sort of like, well,
1:02:38
Speaker 1: wait a minute. I thought you guys were the party
1:02:40
Speaker 1: of institutions and the party of this. And I have
1:02:44
Speaker 1: a feeling that are we in the middle of a
1:02:47
Speaker 1: realignment where the institutionalists are going to be between the
1:02:50
Speaker 1: center left and the center right. Because what you described
1:02:53
Speaker 1: about your frustration with what's happening on the Democratic side
1:02:57
Speaker 1: is almost identical to what Paul Ryan would tell you
1:03:00
Speaker 1: is happening right, yeah, which is these loud voices are
1:03:03
Speaker 1: over consuming and those that are in this sort of
1:03:06
Speaker 1: Romney right are sometimes afraid to speak out. They'll get
1:03:09
Speaker 1: their head cut off. You know, all of everything you
1:03:13
Speaker 1: said could apply easily to this group, and some people
1:03:17
Speaker 1: on the left thing, yeah, it's those spineless people. And
1:03:19
Speaker 1: so those on the right say the same thing about
1:03:21
Speaker 1: the center left Dems, and you're like, try living in
1:03:24
Speaker 1: that space and then tell me what kind of how
1:03:26
Speaker 1: spineless they are?
1:03:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, no issue, Yeah, no, Well, look, I and I
1:03:32
Speaker 3: do think you're absolutely right. Of course, the incentive structure
1:03:34
Speaker 3: and this idea that you know, really the goal is
1:03:37
Speaker 3: to build a brand for yourself, you know, is a problem.
1:03:42
Speaker 3: I think it's more true at the federal level to
1:03:44
Speaker 3: you know, the state and local officials that I work with,
1:03:47
Speaker 3: I mean I have, I'm lucky. I probably people ask
1:03:50
Speaker 3: me all the time like why do you keep doing this?
1:03:51
Speaker 3: They probably ask you this too, like why are you staying?
1:03:53
Speaker 3: I want to keep talking about this? Why do you
1:03:54
Speaker 3: stay in this fight? And the truth is that I
1:03:56
Speaker 3: don't know that I would if I had not, if
1:03:58
Speaker 3: I wasn't working with state and local officials over the
1:04:00
Speaker 3: country who despite who are running not like despite of
1:04:05
Speaker 3: what's happening, but because of what's happening. They see this
1:04:07
Speaker 3: is almost like a public service to be in public
1:04:09
Speaker 3: life right now, to try to make a difference, to
1:04:11
Speaker 3: try to deliver results. And so you know, your average mayor,
1:04:15
Speaker 3: you know, probably not you know, the first person thing
1:04:18
Speaker 3: people think of when they're online, right, and so you
1:04:21
Speaker 3: know they're out there. Really they're working across the aisle.
1:04:23
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, we work with the folks in
1:04:24
Speaker 3: Alaska who have a bipartisan bowling league. Still, I mean,
1:04:27
Speaker 3: there is there are such bright spots out there about
1:04:30
Speaker 3: actually government working. And what's so my frustration and my
1:04:33
Speaker 3: goal a lot of the time is how do we
1:04:35
Speaker 3: you know, bring those stories forward so that we're not
1:04:38
Speaker 3: only hearing about you know what we're talking about the
1:04:40
Speaker 3: federal level.
1:04:50
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, well let me you know which is Look,
1:04:53
Speaker 1: I would argue the bases have hijacked political discourse. Yes,
1:04:58
Speaker 1: but at this same time, your folks can't win without
1:05:03
Speaker 1: their support, right, it's part of the coalition on the left,
1:05:07
Speaker 1: just like just like on the right. You know, Todd
1:05:09
Speaker 1: Jung and John Curtis can't win without the mega support.
1:05:14
Speaker 1: So you you find you're trying to find ways to
1:05:18
Speaker 1: get in some ways the common ground is happening. The
1:05:22
Speaker 1: attempts are happening more there than it is sort of
1:05:24
Speaker 1: between the at the in the in the from the
1:05:28
Speaker 1: center left to the center right, and I don't it
1:05:34
Speaker 1: feels to me that the Progresses aren't interested in a
1:05:36
Speaker 1: in a in a coalition at the moment.
1:05:39
Speaker 3: Well, and we're in primary season, so I think this
1:05:41
Speaker 3: is heightened, right. I mean, let's be clear, you have
1:05:45
Speaker 3: to win a lot more than the Democratic left to
1:05:47
Speaker 3: win in the generals, right.
1:05:49
Speaker 1: So you know, and tell all the time, I say
1:05:52
Speaker 1: the Democrat, I said, you know, they're always complaining what
1:05:55
Speaker 1: looks like, you know, conservatives, And I said, yeah, they
1:05:57
Speaker 1: have a bigger base. They need fewer rights get to
1:06:00
Speaker 1: fifty percent. Democrats need more moderates to get to fifty percent.
1:06:03
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's a nuts issue. It isn't anything.
1:06:06
Speaker 2: It is we will have to win like sixty five
1:06:08
Speaker 2: seventy percent of moderates to win, right. And so there's
1:06:11
Speaker 2: no other way to say this except to say, I mean,
1:06:14
Speaker 2: I understand, again, we're in the primary fight and some
1:06:16
Speaker 2: of the you know, and I also kind of reject that.
1:06:20
Speaker 2: You know, there's been a little bit of a narrative
1:06:21
Speaker 2: that the left is you know, dominating elections, and I'm
1:06:24
Speaker 2: not saying that they're not doing well in a lot
1:06:26
Speaker 2: of places. But I think it's been a mixed bag.
1:06:27
Speaker 3: And I'm here in California, right, Javierbsera, Tom Sier that
1:06:31
Speaker 3: one conveniently gets left off the list when people talk
1:06:33
Speaker 3: about this.
1:06:33
Speaker 2: So I think it's actually been a mixed bag.
1:06:35
Speaker 3: But you know, but what we are going to see
1:06:38
Speaker 3: is in the general election how the different candidates do
1:06:40
Speaker 3: in some of these tougher districts, because just what we said,
1:06:43
Speaker 3: the math does not work unless you can't just win
1:06:45
Speaker 3: your left, you got to win into the center.
1:06:47
Speaker 1: Well, it is interesting that you do have. I mean,
1:06:49
Speaker 1: I did a sort of halfway mark point in the primaries,
1:06:55
Speaker 1: what if there's a distinction between Republican primary voters and
1:06:58
Speaker 1: Democratic primary voters? This site it is. It does seem
1:07:03
Speaker 1: as if the perception of electability still matters a little
1:07:05
Speaker 1: bit more to the Democrats than it does the Republican
1:07:08
Speaker 1: right are still they're still looking for disruptors, and they'll
1:07:13
Speaker 1: give it if they think one can win, they'll gravitate.
1:07:16
Speaker 1: If they don't think they win, they won't do it
1:07:18
Speaker 1: like we saw that with Lindsay Graham surviving. Yeah, they're
1:07:21
Speaker 1: looking for that versus I don't think the left has
1:07:26
Speaker 1: gotten that nihilistic.
1:07:27
Speaker 2: Yet I think that's right, and I think a proof
1:07:29
Speaker 2: point on that. I would even go back to the
1:07:31
Speaker 2: twenty five elections right where you know, a lot of
1:07:34
Speaker 2: the thing was about, you know, the New York mayor
1:07:36
Speaker 2: Mandati winning, But if you looked at Mundammi and Abigail
1:07:39
Speaker 2: Spamberger and Mikey Cheryl.
1:07:41
Speaker 3: They all ran on affordability. They all ran incredibly a disciplined,
1:07:45
Speaker 3: disciplined race, unlike we did in twenty four on the
1:07:48
Speaker 3: issues that I think matter most to people in the
1:07:49
Speaker 3: cost of living specifically, Now, whether or not I agree
1:07:52
Speaker 3: with everything that the New York mayors thought that you know,
1:07:54
Speaker 3: thinks that are the solutions to that, I think that
1:07:56
Speaker 3: that is kind of a proof point to you, which
1:07:58
Speaker 3: is like, I think people know, oh that we have
1:08:01
Speaker 3: to build be at least talking about abroad set of
1:08:05
Speaker 3: issues that most people care about if we're gonna win elections.
1:08:07
Speaker 2: And that's that's a good thing.
1:08:09
Speaker 1: So let's talk about some substance here, because the other
1:08:12
Speaker 1: thing that came comes through in this typology report from
1:08:15
Speaker 1: Q is that voters under fifty are the ones that
1:08:19
Speaker 1: want more the most change. Right now, there's different ways
1:08:22
Speaker 1: they've been cataloged in this and I don't. But the
1:08:26
Speaker 1: general sense is that those that would like to see
1:08:29
Speaker 1: more disruption, more experimentation are younger, Right, it's older voters
1:08:34
Speaker 1: that are looking for the stability, looking for the civility, right,
1:08:38
Speaker 1: looking for the things that perhaps you and I kind
1:08:40
Speaker 1: of miss about about our politics. Yeah, and I'm mindful
1:08:44
Speaker 1: of that. Hey, you know, I'm I'm you know, that's
1:08:46
Speaker 1: there's a reason they call it over the hill, right,
1:08:48
Speaker 1: I'd like to think I just went over the hill,
1:08:50
Speaker 1: but it's still I know, I'm on the other side
1:08:52
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, And you know, can you can you?
1:08:58
Speaker 1: Is there such thing as pragmatic disrupt.
1:09:01
Speaker 3: Absolutely? I mean, let's say, you know, let's talk about
1:09:04
Speaker 3: one in particular. I'm livid that we let Trump have Doge. Now,
1:09:09
Speaker 3: Doze was a disaster. Dosee was a Dosee was a
1:09:12
Speaker 3: you know, a disguised for burning the house down and
1:09:15
Speaker 3: not making government work. But you know, since we're talking age,
1:09:19
Speaker 3: we're both old enough to remember al.
1:09:20
Speaker 2: Gore's Reinventing Government effort, which was squarely a democratic effort,
1:09:23
Speaker 2: which is to say, if we think government should work,
1:09:25
Speaker 2: we should make it work better. It's not when it's
1:09:27
Speaker 2: not working.
1:09:28
Speaker 1: So Democrats, so you know, exactly that's right at the moment.
1:09:32
Speaker 2: Exactly, and so we should have we should have owned this.
1:09:34
Speaker 2: We should have come out and said, look, there are
1:09:36
Speaker 2: you know, government is not delivering. How are we going
1:09:40
Speaker 2: to you know, reform it. Let's make it smaller, let's
1:09:43
Speaker 2: make it, you know, more effective. And yet we lost
1:09:46
Speaker 2: that you know fight because we were not willing to,
1:09:49
Speaker 2: uh be disruptors.
1:09:51
Speaker 3: And so I think that's just one example, but I
1:09:53
Speaker 3: think Democrats who believe in government actually like have a
1:09:56
Speaker 3: bigger responsibility to be disruptors right now. Because we Republicans
1:10:02
Speaker 3: don't want government to work. It just self reinforces the
1:10:03
Speaker 3: whole argument that is not working, right, And so I
1:10:06
Speaker 3: think Democrats have this special responsibility to actually deliver. And
1:10:09
Speaker 3: it's not just our politics and we know this, but
1:10:11
Speaker 3: I mean this is right, This is hand in glove
1:10:13
Speaker 3: with our democracy. This is I mean, you know, not
1:10:16
Speaker 3: a hand in glove with how people feel about the
1:10:18
Speaker 3: next two and fifty years of America. So if people
1:10:20
Speaker 3: do not have I'm not polynisious enough to say that
1:10:23
Speaker 3: like we can you know, I don't want to think
1:10:25
Speaker 3: we should go back and I also think that like
1:10:26
Speaker 3: restoring trust in government is a I believe that, but
1:10:29
Speaker 3: that's a little bit you know, amorphist and what does
1:10:31
Speaker 3: that mean.
1:10:31
Speaker 2: But I do think that there are.
1:10:32
Speaker 3: Things that we can do to make people not feel
1:10:36
Speaker 3: like government is actively working against them, even little things
1:10:39
Speaker 3: every day. Why does it takes along on the phone.
1:10:41
Speaker 3: Why why do I have to do another set of
1:10:43
Speaker 3: doctor you know forms when I just did them. I mean,
1:10:46
Speaker 3: all those things. We've got to focus on those things.
1:10:49
Speaker 1: Customer service. Treat the voters like their customers, Yes, the
1:10:53
Speaker 1: taxpayers like their customers.
1:10:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they are to some extent.
1:10:56
Speaker 1: Right they are. They are customers, pay for it, that's right.
1:11:02
Speaker 1: They expect the services. And you know, it's funny. It's
1:11:04
Speaker 1: like I'm still to this day, you know, I'll get
1:11:08
Speaker 1: really upset if my county doesn't you know, pick up
1:11:12
Speaker 1: our trash or whatever like they're supposed to. And then
1:11:15
Speaker 1: when they when you call and they do it within
1:11:18
Speaker 1: a day, You're like, wow, that's pretty good. Like I'm
1:11:20
Speaker 1: always like you know that, that's I'm sure. It's pain
1:11:23
Speaker 1: in the pain. And that took us to try to
1:11:24
Speaker 1: figure out everybody that was missed and go out and
1:11:26
Speaker 1: do it. But you know, it's a pretty high functioning
1:11:30
Speaker 1: government in Arlington County and they kind of also know
1:11:33
Speaker 1: that Arlington County has a bunch of super voters in it,
1:11:36
Speaker 1: and if they do mess up, they will get like
1:11:38
Speaker 1: Housted like it's one of those where it's responsive, not
1:11:43
Speaker 1: because they should be, but because they actually know. Yeah,
1:11:46
Speaker 1: this is half my constituents are lawyers. They'll somehow come
1:11:50
Speaker 1: after me if i'd get this wrong.
1:11:51
Speaker 2: Right, you'll see on the grocery store line and remind them.
1:11:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's so, Yeah, it does like local politics
1:11:58
Speaker 1: understands that it's a customer service, a type of us
1:12:03
Speaker 1: that we haven't figured out how to bring that at
1:12:05
Speaker 1: a federal level. Yeah, but we have to one hundred percent.
1:12:09
Speaker 2: We have to.
1:12:10
Speaker 1: Every other company does every other like even those that
1:12:13
Speaker 1: you know, I think customer service has never been worse
1:12:15
Speaker 1: because they're trying to automate it. But why are they
1:12:18
Speaker 1: trying to automate it. Because they're trying to over time,
1:12:21
Speaker 1: they hope to be more service oriented to their customers.
1:12:24
Speaker 1: This is all this AI programming just doesn't work very
1:12:27
Speaker 1: well yet.
1:12:27
Speaker 2: No, that's right, that's right, Yeah, that's right.
1:12:29
Speaker 3: And you know I'm Mark Dunkleman, who wrote a terrific
1:12:32
Speaker 3: book Why Nothing Works.
1:12:33
Speaker 2: You probably know of it. Uh is a friend and
1:12:36
Speaker 2: you know, so to give Democrats the benefit of the
1:12:40
Speaker 2: doubt on this, I think there are kind of two
1:12:41
Speaker 2: competing instincts which sometimes come to a head, and we
1:12:45
Speaker 2: have to, like I think, be thoughtful about this, which is,
1:12:47
Speaker 2: you know, we want to give everybody a voice in government,
1:12:49
Speaker 2: and then we also want government, you know, government to
1:12:52
Speaker 2: do things. And so I do think that you know,
1:12:54
Speaker 2: you're seeing a lot.
1:12:55
Speaker 3: We're seeing that a lot around the country where you know,
1:12:57
Speaker 3: here in California, getting rid of some of our environment
1:13:00
Speaker 3: laws that we keep making it harder to build housing
1:13:02
Speaker 3: for example.
1:13:02
Speaker 2: That's happening in a lot of places.
1:13:04
Speaker 3: I think Democrats are finally saying, actually, some of our
1:13:07
Speaker 3: processes where one person can hold things up is maybe
1:13:10
Speaker 3: you know, might have been born from a good instinct
1:13:13
Speaker 3: that everybody should get to say something, but it's actually
1:13:15
Speaker 3: really having long term impacts that are bad. And so
1:13:18
Speaker 3: I'm excited to see some of that change. I'm also
1:13:22
Speaker 3: excited to see actually we have a task force on
1:13:25
Speaker 3: an AI and where a lot of people are thinking
1:13:27
Speaker 3: about guardrails and privacy which are super important. We talked,
1:13:30
Speaker 3: we did a task force on where's AI being used
1:13:33
Speaker 3: to make government work better and deliver better results? And
1:13:35
Speaker 3: there's some really cool stuff happening around the country. So
1:13:38
Speaker 3: there's I think that we can do this. I have
1:13:40
Speaker 3: not given up yet.
1:13:42
Speaker 1: Look, no, I mean and I actually, you know, I'm
1:13:45
Speaker 1: always I always say I'm long term optimistic, short term pessimistic.
1:13:47
Speaker 1: And it's just like we will, you know, we always
1:13:50
Speaker 1: eventually do the right thing, figure it out. We just
1:13:53
Speaker 1: have to exhaust all the other ideas right before we
1:13:55
Speaker 1: do it. But you know, it's funny about Democrats and rules.
1:14:02
Speaker 1: And this is going to sound over simplifying, but I
1:14:06
Speaker 1: think there's something to this, which is, for the last
1:14:10
Speaker 1: most of your adult lives, a majority of Democratic office
1:14:15
Speaker 1: holders went to law school.
1:14:18
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:14:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, a majority of Republican office holders owned a small business. Right.
1:14:24
Speaker 2: It's interesting.
1:14:25
Speaker 1: So and you and then folks wonder why one side
1:14:29
Speaker 1: is will tell you there's too much regulation. On the
1:14:32
Speaker 1: other side, we'll say you, no, you just don't understand
1:14:34
Speaker 1: how the rules. People would just follow the set of rules.
1:14:37
Speaker 1: But I've often wondered if Democrats need to diversify who
1:14:40
Speaker 1: their office holders are the backgrounds of office holders, so
1:14:43
Speaker 1: that you you sort of you know, know what it's
1:14:47
Speaker 1: like the media pay roll, know what it's like to
1:14:49
Speaker 1: go through and have to have a state form, a
1:14:52
Speaker 1: local form, and a federal form in order to have
1:14:55
Speaker 1: a license to serve booze or get a delivery, you know,
1:15:01
Speaker 1: have a truck, be able to like sit outside your
1:15:03
Speaker 1: property and do deliveries or whatever it is. And I
1:15:07
Speaker 1: know that sounds, like I said, a little oversimplifying, but
1:15:09
Speaker 1: do you think there's something to that.
1:15:11
Speaker 2: No, I do think there's something to that.
1:15:13
Speaker 3: And I also think so I think small business owners,
1:15:16
Speaker 3: you know, all kinds of different backgrounds. I've been hardened
1:15:19
Speaker 3: to see how many more veterans are running as Democrats.
1:15:23
Speaker 3: I think that that's an interesting kind of development and that.
1:15:26
Speaker 1: Actually makes sense to me, and it actually should be
1:15:28
Speaker 1: an easy marriage because veterans serve. You know, the most
1:15:32
Speaker 1: egalitarian system we have in government is the military, that's right,
1:15:35
Speaker 1: And if the system doesn't work, nothing works in the military.
1:15:39
Speaker 1: So it's one of the places where a bureaucracy, if
1:15:42
Speaker 1: it isn't doing something correct, it actually you know, people die. Yeah,
1:15:47
Speaker 1: so they you know, their systems just work a little
1:15:50
Speaker 1: bit better.
1:15:51
Speaker 3: No, that's right, and I think that that's I mean,
1:15:53
Speaker 3: can I'm a Democratic, can only speak to Democratic Party
1:15:55
Speaker 3: on this one, but I will say that I do
1:15:56
Speaker 3: think that one of the things that unite in a
1:16:00
Speaker 3: whole lot of people that I work with across the
1:16:01
Speaker 3: country is this sense of service. Is that public service
1:16:05
Speaker 3: is a service. It's not a you know, a lot
1:16:08
Speaker 3: you know, I have a podcast. We have a podcast
1:16:11
Speaker 3: called an Honorable Profession, which is really you know, Bobby
1:16:14
Speaker 3: Kennedy's idea that government in public service is honorable, and
1:16:17
Speaker 3: we talk a lot about what got people into office
1:16:19
Speaker 3: in the first place, and a cross I mean, we've
1:16:21
Speaker 3: had three hundred and something episodes. We've been this a
1:16:23
Speaker 3: long time, and so, you know, almost to a person,
1:16:26
Speaker 3: it was a problem that needed to be solved, and
1:16:28
Speaker 3: they asked a question whether it was, you know, that
1:16:30
Speaker 3: their father couldn't get health care, whether the local park
1:16:33
Speaker 3: needed something, and they figured out that, oh, the town council,
1:16:36
Speaker 3: the school board, whatever it was. The person who does that, Okay,
1:16:38
Speaker 3: who should I talk to? Oh they're not really responding, well,
1:16:41
Speaker 3: you should run. And so, I mean, so many people
1:16:43
Speaker 3: get into politics that way. And I think that you know,
1:16:45
Speaker 3: I still believe that that's you know, I've been doing
1:16:48
Speaker 3: this a long time.
1:16:48
Speaker 2: You've been this long time.
1:16:49
Speaker 3: Like, I really believe that despite what everybody hears, and
1:16:52
Speaker 3: there's certainly bad actors in any you know, profession, but
1:16:55
Speaker 3: the vast majority of people got into politics.
1:16:57
Speaker 2: It's not glamorous when you start. It is not money.
1:17:00
Speaker 2: It is a sacrifice.
1:17:01
Speaker 3: They wanted to change something, they wanted to make things better,
1:17:04
Speaker 3: and so I love people that kind of come from that,
1:17:06
Speaker 3: you know, that orientation.
1:17:09
Speaker 1: I used to always say that ninety five percent of
1:17:11
Speaker 1: the people that come to Washington came here for the
1:17:13
Speaker 1: right reasons. You may not agree that the reason that
1:17:16
Speaker 1: motivated them, but it was a but it was a
1:17:18
Speaker 1: sort of a noble reason that you just described something
1:17:21
Speaker 1: didn't want that's right, and they jumped in. And then
1:17:23
Speaker 1: they get here and they realize and then the other
1:17:26
Speaker 1: thing I always like to say is that actually they
1:17:28
Speaker 1: that four hundred and thirty five members of Congress kind
1:17:31
Speaker 1: of agree about on eighty five percent of the job.
1:17:33
Speaker 1: It's the stuff that's just somewhere now used to be
1:17:36
Speaker 1: five percent, that it was ten that's probably about fifteen
1:17:38
Speaker 1: percent that's disagreed upon more than ever, don't get me wrong,
1:17:42
Speaker 1: which is why we can't pass simple budgets anymore. But
1:17:46
Speaker 1: that's the irony is that we're fighting over. We're fighting
1:17:48
Speaker 1: over a fifteen percent disagreement, not an eighty five percent disagreement,
1:17:51
Speaker 1: which is why the public is in better shape than
1:17:54
Speaker 1: we sometimes want to admit.
1:17:56
Speaker 3: I agree that too. I agree that too. And it's
1:17:58
Speaker 3: I mean this, look, this is a weird time. This
1:18:01
Speaker 3: president is a very uniquely troubling, you know, uh, norm
1:18:06
Speaker 3: breaking and.
1:18:07
Speaker 1: I think we all think, and this is my concern,
1:18:09
Speaker 1: we all assume, Okay, this can't get worse after he
1:18:12
Speaker 1: leaves type of thing. Yeah, but you can't just assume that.
1:18:16
Speaker 1: You can't just can't just smoke the opium. I mean,
1:18:18
Speaker 1: I think that's right. Yeah, we got to. I choose
1:18:22
Speaker 1: to look at Trump as an MRI I for what's
1:18:25
Speaker 1: not what every loophole that certainly, oh that's an that
1:18:29
Speaker 1: was a norm. We got to codify that. That's right.
1:18:32
Speaker 1: We have to at a constitutional amendment or two on pardons.
1:18:35
Speaker 1: Maybe that doesn't work it out, It's just fine, Like
1:18:39
Speaker 1: instead of lamenting, why don't people stand up for norms?
1:18:43
Speaker 1: We can we can codify things.
1:18:45
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.
1:18:46
Speaker 3: It feels a little bit to me like we're at
1:18:48
Speaker 3: the you know, turn of the last century or something
1:18:51
Speaker 3: where there's like there's just needs to be some big
1:18:54
Speaker 3: scale reforms, right, And whether you and we haven't updated
1:18:57
Speaker 3: our democracy in a long time, right, I mean, whether
1:18:59
Speaker 3: it's how we vote, you know, the supreme.
1:19:02
Speaker 1: Ironically, we've only done it a handful of times. We've
1:19:04
Speaker 1: had these periods right right at the beginning or right
1:19:08
Speaker 1: right after the Civil War, essentially in the right before
1:19:12
Speaker 1: the Great Depression, yea, with with the with the robber barons.
1:19:17
Speaker 1: We really haven't. I mean, I would argue we really
1:19:21
Speaker 1: haven't done a substantive addition to the constitution since before
1:19:25
Speaker 1: World War Two. Now, some will say twenty second Amendment,
1:19:29
Speaker 1: which was a political reform that actually, in hindsight might
1:19:32
Speaker 1: be a mistake. Yes, twenty fifth Amendment was actually something
1:19:37
Speaker 1: that was really smart and was a necessity, that was
1:19:39
Speaker 1: a loophole and it was that actually was and then
1:19:42
Speaker 1: eight and then lowering the voting age eighteen certainly isn't
1:19:46
Speaker 1: insignificant on that front. But we've not had a something
1:19:50
Speaker 1: more substantive, right, Yeah, that's right. Since that's right, you know,
1:19:55
Speaker 1: direct collection of senators and adding in dumb tax and
1:19:59
Speaker 1: if you it was.
1:20:00
Speaker 3: Like two hundred and fifty that the anniversary is a
1:20:02
Speaker 3: decent time to talk about this, right, I mean, it's
1:20:04
Speaker 3: really it's a nice time to take stock. I mean,
1:20:06
Speaker 3: you know, we won't do it this year. We won't
1:20:08
Speaker 3: do it probably till twenty eight, you know, at least.
1:20:10
Speaker 3: But I do think that this is the conversation that
1:20:13
Speaker 3: needs to happen. And that's the frustration of where we
1:20:15
Speaker 3: are right now is that I think a lot of
1:20:17
Speaker 3: people could probably agree with that, but everything has become
1:20:20
Speaker 3: so partisan and so divisive, and we're just going to
1:20:23
Speaker 3: need a leader who talks differently and who's willing to
1:20:26
Speaker 3: be different and he's willing to say, you know, I mean,
1:20:28
Speaker 3: can you imagine in our lifetime having a president that
1:20:30
Speaker 3: basically says I'm not president of the states that didn't
1:20:33
Speaker 3: vote for me. Like it's actually insane, it's literally insane.
1:20:37
Speaker 1: No, I mean, every bit of behavior, And that's what
1:20:40
Speaker 1: I know frustrates those on the left. Literally, if if
1:20:43
Speaker 1: Barack Obama had ever behaved ten percent like Donald Trump's
1:20:47
Speaker 1: behaved the impeachment proceedings, you know, would probably would have
1:20:52
Speaker 1: ended successfully.
1:20:53
Speaker 2: Of course, absolutely absolutely, And so it's going to take
1:20:56
Speaker 2: I mean, one thing I worry about is, you know
1:20:58
Speaker 2: what happens when we get you know, I think we're
1:21:01
Speaker 2: gonna have a great twenty six. I think there's just
1:21:04
Speaker 2: Democrats are gonna have a good twenty six. You know.
1:21:06
Speaker 2: I think that we're going to have to show I
1:21:08
Speaker 2: don't think that. I hope we don't take the wrong
1:21:10
Speaker 2: lessons from that that you know that people like guess
1:21:12
Speaker 2: I think they're just going to say that they're really yeah,
1:21:14
Speaker 2: they're really mad.
1:21:15
Speaker 3: I think that's going to be a lot of the conversation. Well,
1:21:17
Speaker 3: well maybe we can have that conversation after the elections.
1:21:19
Speaker 3: But we're gonna you know, we're gonna need to actually
1:21:22
Speaker 3: decide and tell people what we stand for as a party,
1:21:24
Speaker 3: not that just we're anti Trump.
1:21:26
Speaker 2: Well it's gonna be really important.
1:21:37
Speaker 1: Get Democrats win the House of the Senate. How do
1:21:41
Speaker 1: you govern for two years with Donald Trump?
1:21:44
Speaker 2: That's right, I.
1:21:45
Speaker 1: Meant to do, try to get rid of them.
1:21:48
Speaker 2: I think you have to do it. I think you
1:21:50
Speaker 2: have to do it.
1:21:51
Speaker 3: I'm more I don't know. I mean, I look, it
1:21:53
Speaker 3: is a hard one It's that's where I come from too.
1:21:56
Speaker 3: I mean, I get the instinct, and I mean, and
1:21:58
Speaker 3: I also think accountability is important. So this is a
1:22:00
Speaker 3: little bit of a pole like, right, But I do
1:22:03
Speaker 3: think that like going on our own retribution tour is
1:22:06
Speaker 3: absolutely the wrong thing to do.
1:22:07
Speaker 1: It's already been tried. It's already giganic mistake. Yes, what
1:22:12
Speaker 1: New York and Atlanta did, absolutely, I don't believe they
1:22:18
Speaker 1: were intentional about it. But nothing fueled Donald Trump's come
1:22:21
Speaker 1: back more than the decisions in New York City and
1:22:25
Speaker 1: Atlanta and full Yeah, those.
1:22:26
Speaker 2: Were basically point to something saying that se see they're
1:22:29
Speaker 2: coming after me. Yeah, And I think that that's we
1:22:32
Speaker 2: have to you know. And even if look, if we
1:22:33
Speaker 2: start passing things and and he vetoes them one after
1:22:36
Speaker 2: the other, that's okay, that's you know, that's I mean,
1:22:38
Speaker 2: it's not great obviously, but you know, we at least
1:22:41
Speaker 2: it gets the ball rolling in the right direction and
1:22:43
Speaker 2: shows people what Democrats would do if they had, you know,
1:22:46
Speaker 2: somebody in the White House as well. So I think
1:22:48
Speaker 2: that's we have to focus on that.
1:22:49
Speaker 1: What do you say to the progressive activists who's been
1:22:52
Speaker 1: in this for a long time too, and says, you know,
1:22:55
Speaker 1: and I do sense this from the progressive movement is
1:22:58
Speaker 1: it's very similar to how the conservatives who were tired
1:23:03
Speaker 1: of compromising and you know, supporting Romney, tired of compromising
1:23:07
Speaker 1: supporting John McCain or George W. Bush, and the progressives
1:23:12
Speaker 1: will say, you know, you know, we we we got
1:23:15
Speaker 1: behind Bill Clinton, we got behind Barack Obama, we got
1:23:18
Speaker 1: behind Hillary Clinton. But none of them were really you know,
1:23:22
Speaker 1: of us Obama the closer, but even that was you know,
1:23:27
Speaker 1: he certainly governed more like Bill Clinton than FDR. I think,
1:23:32
Speaker 1: and it don't they have a point. They've never really
1:23:37
Speaker 1: been in charge of the party, even though they get
1:23:40
Speaker 1: even though their Braind's been in charge of the party
1:23:42
Speaker 1: for the last twenty years.
1:23:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I guess I think two things. One is,
1:23:45
Speaker 3: let's go back to the maths we were doing at
1:23:46
Speaker 3: the beginning.
1:23:47
Speaker 2: Of the the show, which is that's you know that
1:23:52
Speaker 2: that kind of Democrat is not going to win a
1:23:54
Speaker 2: national election just just the math doesn't work. So I
1:23:56
Speaker 2: think that that's a and B.
1:23:58
Speaker 3: I mean my frustration actually speaking of like a Hillary Clinton,
1:24:02
Speaker 3: I think there were people not iman and I think,
1:24:05
Speaker 3: you know, you were talking about the Pew thing. There's
1:24:06
Speaker 3: a lot of things here, So we're talking about progressive.
1:24:08
Speaker 3: I don't anyone who calls themselves progressive is not somehow
1:24:11
Speaker 3: in an affra of the center left right.
1:24:12
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of room here for a
1:24:15
Speaker 2: big tent. But I do think there were some people
1:24:17
Speaker 2: in the far far left who were like, you know,
1:24:19
Speaker 2: we both heard it. You know, Killer's leting Donald Trump.
1:24:21
Speaker 2: There's no difference. Oh really, Dobb's decision Supreme Court. You know,
1:24:26
Speaker 2: like like I think if we go back in history,
1:24:28
Speaker 2: we will see that there was a very big distinction
1:24:30
Speaker 2: Betweenry Clinton and Donald Trump. So I think that, you know,
1:24:32
Speaker 2: I mean it sounds kind of goofy, but it's true,
1:24:34
Speaker 2: like that was a conversation was happening. What's the difference?
1:24:36
Speaker 2: And so I think that's what I say that progressives.
1:24:39
Speaker 2: It's like, hey, we got to win. And actually there's
1:24:41
Speaker 2: more that unites the left, you know, center left to
1:24:44
Speaker 2: left in terms of our values and what we want
1:24:46
Speaker 2: to see accomplished and equal opportunity for all people and
1:24:49
Speaker 2: all these things. And I think we all can agree
1:24:51
Speaker 2: on that. You know, if we can't come.
1:24:52
Speaker 3: Together to fight what is by far the greatest threat
1:24:56
Speaker 3: in our lifetimes, if not in the country's lifetime, to
1:24:59
Speaker 3: our democracy into the constitution, all kinds of things.
1:25:02
Speaker 2: Then what are we doing?
1:25:05
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the S word, because I think
1:25:07
Speaker 1: that is I think it's enormously damaging to the Democratic
1:25:12
Speaker 1: Party's brand. I will confess that I grew up, born
1:25:16
Speaker 1: and raised in Miami, so I am more acute, I
1:25:19
Speaker 1: am more more in tune to how the word socialism
1:25:24
Speaker 1: is viewed by something. You know, if you, if you
1:25:27
Speaker 1: grew up in the Sunbell, you understand that a lot
1:25:32
Speaker 1: of your friends and neighbors hear the word socialism and
1:25:35
Speaker 1: think authoritarianism. If you grew up in the Midwest or
1:25:39
Speaker 1: in New England, that is not your experience. And so
1:25:43
Speaker 1: I do think, frankly that a guy like Bernie Sanders
1:25:47
Speaker 1: doesn't fully understand or AOC doesn't understand the South Florida experience.
1:25:55
Speaker 1: But it, frankly, it's true in Texas, it's true in Arizona.
1:26:01
Speaker 1: And yet I look at this typology report and the
1:26:05
Speaker 1: progressive left seventy percent would prefer Democratic socialist candidates. And
1:26:10
Speaker 1: we're seeing a huge movement. Mom, Donnie, is is he
1:26:13
Speaker 1: essentially trying to purge New York City Congressional delegation of
1:26:16
Speaker 1: anybody that isn't at least sympathetic to the DSA. Is
1:26:22
Speaker 1: that a can the New Dems? Can the center left
1:26:26
Speaker 1: Dems get behind a DSA nominee? If that's what happens,
1:26:33
Speaker 1: well I.
1:26:33
Speaker 2: Can help us sell what happens start there.
1:26:36
Speaker 3: I mean, I also but think about from Donnie in particular,
1:26:39
Speaker 3: like right, he how he's governing, I would argue, thus
1:26:43
Speaker 3: far is a far cry from some of the things
1:26:45
Speaker 3: he said he was going.
1:26:46
Speaker 1: To do early on right, So he's finding out the constraints.
1:26:49
Speaker 3: He's finding out the constraints. But I think that that's
1:26:51
Speaker 3: an important conversation because I think that I actually do
1:26:57
Speaker 3: not say I'm looking forward to digging into that to
1:27:00
Speaker 3: the Pey report, and you know, I do not think.
1:27:02
Speaker 3: I mean, I know for a fact that the majority
1:27:04
Speaker 3: of Americans would not call themselves socialists.
1:27:06
Speaker 1: That's no, no, no, no, I was talking about it.
1:27:08
Speaker 1: It's one faction. Yeah, it's literally it's a majority of
1:27:11
Speaker 1: this progressive faction that is less loyal to the Democratic Party. Yeah,
1:27:19
Speaker 1: in general, a little more sour on it than say,
1:27:21
Speaker 1: you're mainstream liberals. Or almost identical to the to the
1:27:27
Speaker 1: progressive left, except on things like socialism.
1:27:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess I'd be really curious to kind
1:27:32
Speaker 2: of do a couple more questions to your kind of point,
1:27:36
Speaker 2: what do you think that means? I mean, if what
1:27:38
Speaker 2: it means.
1:27:39
Speaker 3: Is I want government to do a better job of
1:27:41
Speaker 3: taking care of me, which is really what it might mean.
1:27:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're safety that.
1:27:48
Speaker 3: And maybe they don't even know what they think that,
1:27:50
Speaker 3: Maybe they don't have a policy agenda attached to that.
1:27:52
Speaker 3: Maybe they just think, you know, I've been this rugged
1:27:55
Speaker 3: individualism idea, you know, is leaving too many people behind.
1:27:58
Speaker 2: And I would say, you know, the income and equality
1:28:00
Speaker 2: is out of control. Both things can be true, that
1:28:03
Speaker 2: can be true, and we need a politics and a
1:28:07
Speaker 2: policy agenda that addresses those concerns, you know. I mean,
1:28:11
Speaker 2: I was at something the other day.
1:28:12
Speaker 3: We're talking about government run healthcare, right and so right
1:28:16
Speaker 3: there are a lot of the left right Medicare for all,
1:28:17
Speaker 3: whatever it is. Then you get to the paragraph in
1:28:21
Speaker 3: the bill about single payer health care and who runs healthcare?
1:28:25
Speaker 3: HHS RFK Jr. You want RFK Junior running?
1:28:30
Speaker 4: Is that really what you mean when you say government
1:28:33
Speaker 4: health care so I think I would like, I think
1:28:35
Speaker 4: that there's something in there that's probably important for Democrats
1:28:38
Speaker 4: to understand about people's sense of urgency about the problems.
1:28:42
Speaker 2: But I'm not sure that actually the solutions.
1:28:44
Speaker 3: Like if you if you said that to a lot
1:28:45
Speaker 3: of our left friends, they probably would go, oh, well,
1:28:47
Speaker 3: that's not what I mean.
1:28:48
Speaker 1: You know, no, look, I've I've heard you know. What
1:28:53
Speaker 1: I want to tell my progressive is just drop the
1:28:55
Speaker 1: S word. Just trust me. Of course, you cannot rebrand it.
1:29:00
Speaker 2: It's never can repent it.
1:29:02
Speaker 1: It's not going to happen because the way the word
1:29:05
Speaker 1: was twisted and abused in Latin America. It just is
1:29:09
Speaker 1: what it is. And we are in the America's hemisphere.
1:29:14
Speaker 1: You know, this is so these are lived experiences for
1:29:18
Speaker 1: people that either live here or or related to people.
1:29:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, and generational experiences people are not this is not Yeah, No,
1:29:25
Speaker 3: I absolutely agree. And again, like maybe if we can
1:29:28
Speaker 3: have a conversation that gets beyond labels. Ever, Yeah, you'd
1:29:31
Speaker 3: sit down with people and say, okay, I'm gonna you
1:29:34
Speaker 3: know what, let me let's just take that off the table.
1:29:36
Speaker 3: Tell me what you mean by that actually, and I'll
1:29:38
Speaker 3: tell you what I mean by you know, a more
1:29:41
Speaker 3: you know, a healthcare system that is absolutely about you know,
1:29:44
Speaker 3: universal health care, but doesn't you know, require big government healthcare.
1:29:47
Speaker 2: Maybe we're closer than we think.
1:29:49
Speaker 1: Well, but let me throw something else ade. I don't
1:29:52
Speaker 1: feel like that there are folks in the the in
1:29:57
Speaker 1: the center left category that are that are and I
1:30:02
Speaker 1: think it goes to this, this concern about sort of
1:30:08
Speaker 1: they don't want to debate the progressive left publicly. Yeah,
1:30:12
Speaker 1: and I understand politically why, but it's why it appears
1:30:17
Speaker 1: they're losing the argument and why some people think, oh,
1:30:19
Speaker 1: a majority of Democrats are socialists because the center left
1:30:22
Speaker 1: never speaks out.
1:30:23
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:30:24
Speaker 3: Well, I think that that's fair, and I think that
1:30:25
Speaker 3: people to your point, I mean, I think and I
1:30:27
Speaker 3: disagree with that that being the right approach. I think
1:30:30
Speaker 3: you've got to speak up and as hard as it
1:30:32
Speaker 3: is to sometimes tell our friends that we don't agree.
1:30:34
Speaker 3: Another thing that I've been concerned about recently, we've seen
1:30:37
Speaker 3: it with some of our leaders around the country this uh,
1:30:39
Speaker 3: you know, the non the term that we're not supposed
1:30:42
Speaker 3: to use because it's not a real world you know,
1:30:44
Speaker 3: real common sense words. But it's intersectionality, right, which is
1:30:46
Speaker 3: this idea that people on the left have adopted each
1:30:50
Speaker 3: other's causes, so you'll get a questionnaire. For example, this
1:30:54
Speaker 3: was actually a true example in Arizona where we had
1:30:57
Speaker 3: a legislator, you know, being asked by a Planned Parenthood
1:31:01
Speaker 3: local Planned Parenthood who I'm entirely supportive was on my
1:31:04
Speaker 3: local plant Parenthood board, but asking them about defund police.
1:31:08
Speaker 3: Why would that be on a Planned Parenthood board?
1:31:10
Speaker 1: Right?
1:31:10
Speaker 2: So I do think that there's also this kind of
1:31:13
Speaker 2: not only do we have to speak.
1:31:13
Speaker 1: Out, you know, the interest creed, the leadership of the
1:31:18
Speaker 1: key interest groups on the left are all much further
1:31:23
Speaker 1: to the left ideologically than those folks that ran those
1:31:27
Speaker 1: organizations twenty years ago.
1:31:29
Speaker 3: I think that's right, and I think that that's you know,
1:31:32
Speaker 3: and I think we would tell candidates, you know, we
1:31:34
Speaker 3: don't do elections, but if I was talking to some
1:31:36
Speaker 3: of our new dealers for running, I would say I
1:31:37
Speaker 3: wouldn't answer a question that comes from an organization.
1:31:41
Speaker 1: Nobody answers questionnaires the question there consultants give. Don't do it,
1:31:45
Speaker 1: don't do it. I want to be I mean, how
1:31:47
Speaker 1: do you prevent the Kamala Harris ad from happening? Right
1:31:50
Speaker 1: that they add that's right, Just don't you know, she
1:31:54
Speaker 1: answered some questionnaire. Frankly, pretty honestly, I think every every
1:32:00
Speaker 1: rational DEM leaning person might have answered the question the
1:32:04
Speaker 1: same way. Well if you're just if you're already doing
1:32:07
Speaker 1: this and we're incarcerating them, you know, like I understand,
1:32:11
Speaker 1: Like she's not crazy to have come up with the
1:32:13
Speaker 1: answer she came up with. But it's like, right, who
1:32:16
Speaker 1: was asking about a one percent issue?
1:32:19
Speaker 2: Like, by the way, right on our side of the aisle,
1:32:23
Speaker 2: right on.
1:32:24
Speaker 1: So we talk about the one percent all the time
1:32:26
Speaker 1: when it comes to economic power. Yeah, but the but
1:32:30
Speaker 1: I would argue, and this is true on the right too,
1:32:32
Speaker 1: that these interest groups on the left and right that
1:32:34
Speaker 1: have such that try to be the gatekeepers of who
1:32:37
Speaker 1: gets to run for office, they are one percenters. They're
1:32:42
Speaker 1: not manly one percenters, but they're obsessed with a one
1:32:45
Speaker 1: percent issue. That literally I had the mayor of Oklahoma
1:32:48
Speaker 1: City on earlier this week. He's they hadn't aired yet.
1:32:53
Speaker 1: He gave a speech about the importance of pluralism and
1:32:55
Speaker 1: he's a he's a friend, and I just loved it.
1:32:58
Speaker 1: I was glad he did it. It's an unusual thing
1:33:00
Speaker 1: to speak about. Yeah, and he was lamenting. He's a
1:33:02
Speaker 1: Republican elected mayor of Oklahoma City. But it's a non
1:33:05
Speaker 1: partisan election, which means you get to be normal.
1:33:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:33:08
Speaker 1: And as he said, he goes, let me tell you
1:33:10
Speaker 1: what the biggest issues are in the state of Oklahoma.
1:33:12
Speaker 1: And he says, they're the same issues that everybody else
1:33:14
Speaker 1: is the only with cost of living, gas prizes, et cetera,
1:33:16
Speaker 1: et cetera. Because and you know what the Republican primary
1:33:19
Speaker 1: for governors about, He goes, It's about trans kids, and
1:33:22
Speaker 1: it's about deporte. It's about all these things that have
1:33:25
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the three or four issues that
1:33:28
Speaker 1: the rest of the voters care about. But these interest
1:33:30
Speaker 1: groups and the and the and and we know that
1:33:33
Speaker 1: they some of them want to be kingmakers, and primaries
1:33:35
Speaker 1: are sort of demanding this conversation. And the most frequent
1:33:39
Speaker 1: primary voters are people that are in this world. No,
1:33:42
Speaker 1: it's a real yeah.
1:33:44
Speaker 2: It's a real problem. It is a thing. And I
1:33:46
Speaker 2: think that it's you know, often I think it's not
1:33:49
Speaker 2: about winning an electability.
1:33:51
Speaker 3: It's about you know, going back and be able to
1:33:53
Speaker 3: show your donors that you've got someone to say, yeah,
1:33:54
Speaker 3: you know, sign the pledge, right, it's not it's really
1:33:56
Speaker 3: which we've just got.
1:33:57
Speaker 1: The donors are are part of them here.
1:34:00
Speaker 3: I do think the donors are part of the problem.
1:34:02
Speaker 3: I think that that's changing. I'm hearing more an understanding
1:34:06
Speaker 3: about that.
1:34:06
Speaker 1: But I think that when the donors were the pragmatists,
1:34:09
Speaker 1: but now they've become, especially especially inherited wealth people. I
1:34:14
Speaker 1: think it's like that's second and third generation there. They
1:34:16
Speaker 1: all got some crazy political beliefs that they can use
1:34:19
Speaker 1: their money to amplify.
1:34:21
Speaker 3: I think that, Yeah, I think that a lot of
1:34:23
Speaker 3: people have kind of you know, issues that are their
1:34:25
Speaker 3: number one issue, and they just kind of, you know,
1:34:27
Speaker 3: sometimes lose a force for the trees to be honest, right,
1:34:29
Speaker 3: And I think that that's I think that is a
1:34:31
Speaker 3: problem within the Democratic Party. I mean, I also I
1:34:34
Speaker 3: think that to your point, I think that also some
1:34:36
Speaker 3: of the some of the groups too, like they're thinking
1:34:39
Speaker 3: about labor in particular. I think that's been an interesting
1:34:42
Speaker 3: you know evolution for labor where you know, for so
1:34:45
Speaker 3: long it was part of the Democratic you know coalition,
1:34:48
Speaker 3: and it still is a very important part of the coalition.
1:34:50
Speaker 3: But you know, there's been studies that show that some
1:34:52
Speaker 3: of the labor union leaders like are you know not
1:34:55
Speaker 3: you know, some of the rank and file members were
1:34:57
Speaker 3: starting to vote Republican, right and so you So I
1:35:00
Speaker 3: think that there's I think that those conversations about kind
1:35:03
Speaker 3: of who people speak for and what do actually real
1:35:06
Speaker 3: people think on the ground is actually a really healthy
1:35:08
Speaker 3: and don crist need to do a lot more listening generally,
1:35:11
Speaker 3: I tend to think that we try to short circuit listening.
1:35:14
Speaker 1: Some All right, let me let me land the plane
1:35:17
Speaker 1: this way. So if you're an elected city council member,
1:35:26
Speaker 1: what is it that you can provide me as I'm
1:35:28
Speaker 1: thinking about you know, I want to I'm enjoying my work.
1:35:33
Speaker 1: I want to be more effective and I might want
1:35:37
Speaker 1: to try another office. What is it that you're going
1:35:40
Speaker 1: to be able to What are the resources that you're providing,
1:35:43
Speaker 1: said person.
1:35:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I put them in three kind of big buckets.
1:35:46
Speaker 3: One is idea sharing with other elect officials around the
1:35:48
Speaker 3: country things that are working in one community that we've
1:35:51
Speaker 3: seen spread across communities. People come to our conference and
1:35:53
Speaker 3: they bring a notebook.
1:35:54
Speaker 2: And they say, I'm going and call myself from here.
1:35:57
Speaker 1: How about how often do you guys.
1:35:59
Speaker 3: Do a couple of time meet all together twice a year,
1:36:02
Speaker 3: but we also have ongoing working groups and virtual events
1:36:04
Speaker 3: throughout the year. We just did a really important one,
1:36:07
Speaker 3: I thought, on ice enforcement in the cities and had
1:36:09
Speaker 3: a real interesting conversation with mayors about you know, cars
1:36:13
Speaker 3: that are leading being left behind on streets and what
1:36:15
Speaker 3: to do with them, and I think that could be
1:36:16
Speaker 3: a whole conversation.
1:36:17
Speaker 2: But so yeah, just that kind of the tactics of
1:36:19
Speaker 2: governing right and learning from each other.
1:36:22
Speaker 3: Secondly, as we do a lot of skill development increasingly
1:36:24
Speaker 3: for our conversation on communications and how do you break through,
1:36:27
Speaker 3: We've got some leaders who are doing a really great job.
1:36:29
Speaker 3: If people haven't don't know Kayla Young from West Virginia,
1:36:33
Speaker 3: tattooed granddaughter of a coal miner who helped lead the
1:36:39
Speaker 3: reversal demand nuclear energy in her state.
1:36:41
Speaker 2: Fascinating woman.
1:36:43
Speaker 3: Is a great on social media, doing a lot of
1:36:44
Speaker 3: direct to camera and explaining how government works. So she's
1:36:47
Speaker 3: done a lot of teaching our other leaders how to
1:36:49
Speaker 3: do that. So a lot of digital and authentic communications training,
1:36:53
Speaker 3: how to make sure you're authentic voice skids through.
1:36:55
Speaker 2: And then third is actually us.
1:36:57
Speaker 3: Elevating what they're doing so getting them on podcasts, getting
1:37:01
Speaker 3: them out there in front of media. We have our
1:37:03
Speaker 3: own sub stack roadmap. It's called Strategy Solutions from Messide
1:37:06
Speaker 3: the belt Way and the podcast as I mentioned at
1:37:08
Speaker 3: Audible Profession. So but trying to just get their voices
1:37:11
Speaker 3: out there. However we can to show that there are
1:37:13
Speaker 3: Democrats who are really focused on results and getting things done,
1:37:17
Speaker 3: because I think again as we started, that's going to
1:37:19
Speaker 3: be the brand of the Democratic Party that is going
1:37:20
Speaker 3: to be the most successful.
1:37:23
Speaker 1: Look, I think, I mean it makes a lot of sense.
1:37:27
Speaker 1: At some point this pendulum is going to swing, right.
1:37:30
Speaker 1: We know this that we're going to go from the
1:37:32
Speaker 1: what you know, sort of what we've been doing to
1:37:36
Speaker 1: something a bit more functional. But you know, it's one
1:37:41
Speaker 1: of those I don't know, do you think this is
1:37:44
Speaker 1: a leadership problem? You think it is? It is a
1:37:49
Speaker 1: does the next successful Democratic president happen because they have
1:37:54
Speaker 1: figured out how to navigate the center left and the
1:37:57
Speaker 1: progressive left.
1:38:00
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a leadership problem.
1:38:01
Speaker 3: I think that the Democratic talent out there from the
1:38:05
Speaker 3: top to you know, the amazing number of people we're
1:38:09
Speaker 3: going to be watching actually run for president.
1:38:11
Speaker 2: We have a lot of really good options. Actually, And
1:38:13
Speaker 2: then if you think about the work I do all
1:38:15
Speaker 2: the way down to city councils and school boards, I
1:38:17
Speaker 2: don't we have tons of talent. I think it's a
1:38:21
Speaker 2: it's almost what the work we do is almost like
1:38:24
Speaker 2: helping people, yes, government effectively, but also have permission to
1:38:28
Speaker 2: step outside this kind of crazy structure that they're governing
1:38:32
Speaker 2: in and to be able to say, you know, we
1:38:34
Speaker 2: get a lot of calls a consultant wants me to
1:38:36
Speaker 2: do this. I'm like, don't, what does it? How does
1:38:38
Speaker 2: it feel to you? Don't do it? Do it? Do
1:38:39
Speaker 2: what feels right to you.
1:38:40
Speaker 3: So I think it's a little bit of just like
1:38:42
Speaker 3: breaking the frame and breaking the mold, you know. And
1:38:46
Speaker 3: I say, you know again, I just fundamentally believe that
1:38:50
Speaker 3: most of us want to see a politics that works,
1:38:53
Speaker 3: you know, a government that's in government leaders that are
1:38:55
Speaker 3: inspiring and of character, and so I think we just
1:39:00
Speaker 3: got to keep fighting for that and not compromise on that.
1:39:04
Speaker 1: Well, I'm all for it. I mean, we need we need,
1:39:07
Speaker 1: you know, we need a way to I mean I
1:39:10
Speaker 1: always say we invented politics to figure out how to
1:39:14
Speaker 1: settle disputes without violence.
1:39:16
Speaker 2: That's right.
1:39:16
Speaker 1: We've got to learn to practice politics again.
1:39:18
Speaker 2: Let's stay in that lane, please.
1:39:20
Speaker 1: I know, because yeah, if we stop figuring this out,
1:39:25
Speaker 1: there's only one other alternative, and that's no fun. And
1:39:28
Speaker 1: that's the majority of this planet. Majority of this planet
1:39:31
Speaker 1: doesn't have what we have.
1:39:32
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.
1:39:34
Speaker 1: Times we forget how lucky we are that we have
1:39:37
Speaker 1: the process that we have.
1:39:39
Speaker 2: That's right.
1:39:40
Speaker 1: Please, that's comparative to so many other places that don't.
1:39:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
1:39:44
Speaker 3: Civic education, national service. There's other ways we can think
1:39:48
Speaker 3: about how to get people back engaged too. I would
1:39:50
Speaker 3: love to see us talk to talking about some of
1:39:51
Speaker 3: those things.
1:39:52
Speaker 1: Oh, that's civic. One of the smartest things I got
1:39:55
Speaker 1: was from a viewer who wrote in a question that
1:39:58
Speaker 1: just speculated, and I think they're under something that the
1:40:02
Speaker 1: unintended consequence of no child left behind and of the
1:40:07
Speaker 1: of the testing trying to create metrics for our education
1:40:11
Speaker 1: system is that we prioritize the metrics on reading and arithmetic.
1:40:16
Speaker 1: As you might imagine, the one place we did not
1:40:20
Speaker 1: have a test for with civics. Yeah, and so what
1:40:22
Speaker 1: happened all of a sudden, schools just stopped prioritizing, and
1:40:26
Speaker 1: the good teachers were essentially recruited to go teach English
1:40:31
Speaker 1: and math and the stuff that mattered to the test,
1:40:32
Speaker 1: which of course connected to dollars and bottom lines. And
1:40:37
Speaker 1: we had a and we then we have a generation
1:40:39
Speaker 1: that doesn't know the constitution works, no exactly happen. I
1:40:42
Speaker 1: think that's right, that's right. That's really interesting.
1:40:45
Speaker 3: Actually, I think that's as important as anything that we address. Actually,
1:40:49
Speaker 3: and I had connected those thoughts, but that's interesting either.
1:40:51
Speaker 1: And I've just been it was one of those you know,
1:40:53
Speaker 1: you're like the Angels music, ah, right, Like you're like, yeah, I.
1:40:58
Speaker 2: Said that I might not makes so much.
1:41:00
Speaker 1: And it's like, if we can revitalize creative and you know,
1:41:05
Speaker 1: sometime between the age because everybody when did you first
1:41:09
Speaker 1: get into politics? When were sixteen? Correct? Yeah? Everybody I
1:41:14
Speaker 1: know is always high school because you had the Civics teacher,
1:41:17
Speaker 1: you had this one whatever it was, and they're just
1:41:21
Speaker 1: less and less of a priority. And I get why.
1:41:24
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not irrational, right, that's right. You wonder
1:41:29
Speaker 1: why we don't even understand if I have to that
1:41:31
Speaker 1: I have to like do a glossary in order to
1:41:34
Speaker 1: explain what pluralism means, right.
1:41:36
Speaker 2: No, exactly, we don't exactly, and.
1:41:39
Speaker 3: If you're too many people, just my vote doesn't matter,
1:41:41
Speaker 3: you know, And that may be true in the electoral college,
1:41:44
Speaker 3: but it's sure as heck matters to the person who
1:41:45
Speaker 3: won one vote for mayor city council member, right, I mean,
1:41:48
Speaker 3: so we just got to get people back to understand
1:41:51
Speaker 3: this is this is a with rights come responsibilities, and
1:41:54
Speaker 3: voting and engagement is one of.
1:41:55
Speaker 1: Those, you know, we always can learn from Spider Man.
1:42:01
Speaker 1: It sounded like, hey, Debbie, this is great. I appreciate it, really.
1:42:05
Speaker 2: Fun to see. It takes so much toodastest Top five
1:42:16
Speaker 2: top top.
1:42:18
Speaker 1: Test well in the spirit of Independence Day America two fifty,
1:42:25
Speaker 1: which of course I've lamented, and how much unfortunately this
1:42:29
Speaker 1: has been ruined by the current president. I thought, instead
1:42:35
Speaker 1: of talking about real presidents, we talk about fictional presidents.
1:42:39
Speaker 1: Because I'll be honest, when I think of Independence Day,
1:42:41
Speaker 1: I think of the greatest fictional presidential speech today is
1:42:46
Speaker 1: not just our Independence Day by Bill Pullman. So I thought,
1:42:52
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna give you my five favorite
1:42:56
Speaker 1: fictional presidents. This doesn't mean they're who I think would
1:42:59
Speaker 1: have made good presidents per se. There's one or two
1:43:04
Speaker 1: on here that I think would have made good overall presidents.
1:43:10
Speaker 1: But I think in the spread, i'd love to hear
1:43:12
Speaker 1: from you, who would you have added to this list?
1:43:15
Speaker 1: And let's have a little bit of fun that. So
1:43:17
Speaker 1: here's my top five list has always brought to you
1:43:19
Speaker 1: my friends at FANDLE. So number five is President David
1:43:23
Speaker 1: Palmer Dennis Haysbert from twenty four and I will this
1:43:28
Speaker 1: is the most presidential of my picks, if you will
1:43:32
Speaker 1: like he could have been president now. I'm also going
1:43:34
Speaker 1: to put him on the list because Dennis was the
1:43:36
Speaker 1: voice of Meet the Press when he used to introduce
1:43:40
Speaker 1: Meet the Press, the longest running television show that was
1:43:43
Speaker 1: of course the voice of Dennis Haysberty's and just like
1:43:49
Speaker 1: his voiceover for the introduction to me on Meet the
1:43:52
Speaker 1: Press and twenty four, he was calm, he was grave,
1:43:57
Speaker 1: he was believable. He was one of the fictional president line.
1:44:01
Speaker 1: I'd vote for that guy, and it did seem as
1:44:06
Speaker 1: if he was constantly dealing with national security crisis, so
1:44:09
Speaker 1: at least the fictional resume is pretty strong. So taunt
1:44:13
Speaker 1: me in. Number four on my list is of course,
1:44:16
Speaker 1: one of the worst presidents fictional presidents we've ever had,
1:44:19
Speaker 1: but perhaps the funniest fictional president we've ever had, and
1:44:22
Speaker 1: that is President Selena Meyer Julie Louis Dreyfus on the
1:44:25
Speaker 1: Mount Rushmore of all time great comedic actors look Veep.
1:44:31
Speaker 1: As many of us tell you all the time. You
1:44:34
Speaker 1: know what's more real, viep or west Wing. I'm telling
1:44:37
Speaker 1: you Washington is more veep than west Wing. There is
1:44:40
Speaker 1: no you know, the world that Aaron Sorkin has created
1:44:44
Speaker 1: does not exist and may never have existed, but the
1:44:48
Speaker 1: world created by Veep very much exists. And look she is.
1:44:54
Speaker 1: What Selena Meyer exposes is the those that have the
1:45:00
Speaker 1: super ambition. Now the irony is most of the of
1:45:05
Speaker 1: the truly ambitious, driven, want to be presidential candidates never
1:45:10
Speaker 1: actually get the office. We do. We're usually pretty good
1:45:13
Speaker 1: at sniffing out those who just want the office to
1:45:19
Speaker 1: have the office's sake, right that everything like that, And
1:45:22
Speaker 1: I say, we're usually pretty good at sniffing that out.
1:45:25
Speaker 1: I said, we're usually pretty good at sniffing that out.
1:45:27
Speaker 1: We don't always sniff that out very well. But Selena Meyer,
1:45:32
Speaker 1: all that I mean veep deep is one of those
1:45:35
Speaker 1: shows that I when I now watch it in the
1:45:38
Speaker 1: Trump era, it just hits different important, but it hits different.
1:45:43
Speaker 1: Number three on my list is President James Marshall. You
1:45:48
Speaker 1: may know him as Harrison Ford. Get off my plane, right, Look,
1:45:53
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford. You know I have a son named Harrison.
1:45:57
Speaker 1: I love Harrison Ford. I didn't technically name him after
1:45:59
Speaker 1: he and Ford for those of you wondering, But you know,
1:46:05
Speaker 1: it's funny if there's like two actors that sort of
1:46:08
Speaker 1: have been with me in more movie theaters than any other.
1:46:12
Speaker 1: Two actors that I would go to for the longest
1:46:14
Speaker 1: period of time, whether in movie or TV, it is
1:46:17
Speaker 1: Kevin Costner and Harrison Ford. So there is this affinity
1:46:21
Speaker 1: I certainly have for Harrison Ford. I'm a middle aged
1:46:23
Speaker 1: white guy, so I'm probably not alone on that front.
1:46:29
Speaker 1: I don't know if that character would have been a
1:46:31
Speaker 1: good president, but I know that if I wanted to
1:46:36
Speaker 1: deal with the Russians, I would want fictional President James Marshall.
1:46:41
Speaker 1: And get off my plane is It's basically what happens
1:46:45
Speaker 1: if Indiana Jones had the nuclear codes. Because the beauty
1:46:48
Speaker 1: of Harrison Ford. You know, I've always I heard I
1:46:50
Speaker 1: one time heard this interview about acting. There are two
1:46:53
Speaker 1: types of actors, humans and aliens, and the point being
1:46:57
Speaker 1: is that the alien is like a Meryl Street or
1:47:01
Speaker 1: Gary Oldman. They become the character and you can't even
1:47:04
Speaker 1: recognize the actor playing the character. They are so good
1:47:07
Speaker 1: at essentially becoming this character. And then there are people
1:47:12
Speaker 1: like George Clooney Harrison Ford, who are always George Clooney
1:47:17
Speaker 1: and Harrison Ford, and yet they know how to play
1:47:20
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford as a fictional president, or Harrison Ford as
1:47:23
Speaker 1: the archaeologist, or Harrison Ford is the schwashbuckling smuggler right
1:47:29
Speaker 1: in a space movie. The point being is, you know,
1:47:32
Speaker 1: they're kind of the same guy, but we really like
1:47:35
Speaker 1: that guy, and I think that's Harrison Ford. So he's
1:47:37
Speaker 1: number three, number two on my list. Normally would have
1:47:42
Speaker 1: been number one because it's the greatest fictional speech anybody's
1:47:45
Speaker 1: ever written. It is Thomas Whitmore otherwise the fictional president
1:47:50
Speaker 1: played by Bill Pullman an Independence Day. It is the speech,
1:47:55
Speaker 1: right if Harrison Ford is defined by get off my
1:47:58
Speaker 1: plane when he kicks them off the plane lane this president,
1:48:01
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny, It's like he's kind of feels
1:48:04
Speaker 1: like a week president in over his head, like that's
1:48:07
Speaker 1: kind of how they paint him, right, And Jeff Goldbloom's
1:48:09
Speaker 1: the smart guy in the room. And then by the
1:48:11
Speaker 1: end you're like, I'm I'm gonna follow that guy. You know,
1:48:15
Speaker 1: when he gets up there and grabs the microphone and
1:48:17
Speaker 1: does this, you know, July fourth will no longer be
1:48:20
Speaker 1: remembered as an American holiday. And here you're you're finding
1:48:25
Speaker 1: yourself all fired up about some manufactured fictional aliens that
1:48:30
Speaker 1: don't really exist. Right, that's when you know somebody who's
1:48:34
Speaker 1: written some pretty good sci fi and some pretty good fantasy.
1:48:37
Speaker 1: But number one on my list should be a joke.
1:48:43
Speaker 1: And yet I'm putting him on my list because you
1:48:45
Speaker 1: and I both know that this isn't going to be
1:48:48
Speaker 1: filled with much subtext. It is President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain
1:48:53
Speaker 1: de Herbert Camacho, played by Terry Crews in Idiocracy. Yes,
1:48:59
Speaker 1: it's the case lost pick, it's the ridiculous pick. He's loud,
1:49:02
Speaker 1: he's vulgar, he's the pro wrestling coded president in Idiot
1:49:07
Speaker 1: in Mike Judge's Idiocracy, but it's an unforgettable character and
1:49:12
Speaker 1: he's actually even though you may think I am picking
1:49:16
Speaker 1: this as a not so subtle subtext of our current politics,
1:49:22
Speaker 1: which yes I am. So there's no subtext here, absolutely,
1:49:25
Speaker 1: But you know, the big distinction between my fictional president
1:49:28
Speaker 1: Camacho and our current President Camacho in the White House
1:49:33
Speaker 1: is that the President Camacho in Idiocracy was self aware
1:49:37
Speaker 1: on one point. He had one presidential virtue that when
1:49:41
Speaker 1: he found someone smarter than he was, he gave that
1:49:44
Speaker 1: guy power. I don't think in the real world that
1:49:50
Speaker 1: our real president Camacho would do that. So there you go.
1:49:54
Speaker 1: There's my top five list of this week. Enjoy it.
1:49:57
Speaker 1: My five favorite fictional president who's yours? I think at
1:50:01
Speaker 1: this point give them the real world that we live in.
1:50:04
Speaker 1: It is hard not to put Camacho at number one,
1:50:06
Speaker 1: But you tell me who's your number one number one?
1:50:10
Speaker 1: That's the most important to sort of show what we're
1:50:15
Speaker 1: living in. And of course i'd love to know who's
1:50:18
Speaker 1: the fictional president that you'd actually like to see as president.
1:50:21
Speaker 1: And I know what some of you are going to say,
1:50:23
Speaker 1: where's the West Wayne? And as I told you, it's
1:50:28
Speaker 1: just a it's just a little too unrealistic to me,
1:50:32
Speaker 1: which is why I'm leaving Josia Bartlett off of this one,
1:50:36
Speaker 1: but I know many of you will put him on
1:50:38
Speaker 1: your top five. Look, he's a he's a strong honorable mention,
1:50:41
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. But there you go. There's my
1:50:43
Speaker 1: top five for the week. Well, this episode of the
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Speaker 2: As Chuck, all right.
1:53:18
Speaker 1: Let's get the jingle gone, Let's do some ass check,
1:53:22
Speaker 1: all right? Jim and Tomahanna Pennsylvania writes, Hey, what's the
1:53:27
Speaker 1: point of voting down ballot? As so many members of
1:53:30
Speaker 1: congressing to vote along party line? You said, temperament is
1:53:32
Speaker 1: one of the callers you value in politicians. But does
1:53:35
Speaker 1: it still matter if representatives are more focused on party
1:53:37
Speaker 1: leadership than their constituents? Am I wrong? Jim? And by
1:53:42
Speaker 1: the way, he writes, go Buffalo bills? Excited for the
1:53:44
Speaker 1: new stadium? Hey, Jim, curious, do you have a hot
1:53:48
Speaker 1: Do you have a strong preference on the OJ Simpson situation?
1:53:54
Speaker 1: Do you put him in the new Stadium's Ring of
1:53:56
Speaker 1: honor or not? I'm just curious where you standing. I
1:54:04
Speaker 1: was asked this very question. For what it's worth. I
1:54:07
Speaker 1: sort of leaned on the side of I under I
1:54:09
Speaker 1: think you I think honoring him feels wrong and erasing
1:54:14
Speaker 1: him feels wrong. So you've got to find what is
1:54:17
Speaker 1: that You can't tell the story of the Buffalo Bills
1:54:19
Speaker 1: without O. J. Simpson. That doesn't mean you build a
1:54:22
Speaker 1: statue to him, right, So, I think it's a I
1:54:26
Speaker 1: don't think it's as it's as easy as some people
1:54:29
Speaker 1: want to make it. But anyway, let me get to
1:54:32
Speaker 1: your question. You know, this is a chicken and egg situation,
1:54:40
Speaker 1: I assume, which is, you know, so many members of
1:54:47
Speaker 1: Congress and swing districts swear they're going to be you know,
1:54:50
Speaker 1: they're gonna you know, they're not going to follow party leadership.
1:54:53
Speaker 1: They're going to you know, do what they're supposed to do.
1:54:55
Speaker 1: And yet you're right, right, there's a reason why each
1:54:58
Speaker 1: side can run the ad that's and so votes ninety
1:55:01
Speaker 1: five percent of the time with President Trump and so
1:55:03
Speaker 1: and so votes ninety five percent of the time. But
1:55:05
Speaker 1: you know, Chuck Schumer, you know, whatever it is, because
1:55:10
Speaker 1: there's so many procedural votes that are party line, you
1:55:14
Speaker 1: know their rules, so it sort of inflates that. So
1:55:17
Speaker 1: sometimes the statistics can be a bit misleading. But the
1:55:21
Speaker 1: fact is, in the sort of polarized world that we
1:55:24
Speaker 1: live in, you know part I think part of the
1:55:30
Speaker 1: expectation and part of the job where you sort of
1:55:35
Speaker 1: you may like an idea that's coming from across the aisle,
1:55:38
Speaker 1: but that idea is attached to two other ideas that
1:55:41
Speaker 1: are bad ideas that will undermine your side of the isle,
1:55:44
Speaker 1: and you're trying to figure out what to do. I
1:55:46
Speaker 1: think this is what frustrates the average voter who isn't
1:55:49
Speaker 1: a partisan, right. I always say, you know what am
1:55:52
Speaker 1: I doing here at the check tile? This is basically
1:55:54
Speaker 1: I'm trying to explain politics to the rest of us.
1:55:57
Speaker 1: For the rest of us, which is, if you're not
1:55:59
Speaker 1: a hard partisan on the left or right, you know,
1:56:02
Speaker 1: why is it so hard to get a member of
1:56:03
Speaker 1: Congress to just sort of, you know, sort of vote
1:56:07
Speaker 1: where the public is, not where their party is. And
1:56:11
Speaker 1: it is it is just harder than you think it is.
1:56:14
Speaker 1: And I think part of it is what I just described.
1:56:17
Speaker 1: It's you know, you may like one idea, but you
1:56:22
Speaker 1: can't vote on it separately. It's attached to three other things, right,
1:56:25
Speaker 1: because each party essentially wants to create poison pills if
1:56:30
Speaker 1: you will, in order to It's like, fine, we know
1:56:32
Speaker 1: this part is popular, but I really want to get
1:56:34
Speaker 1: my unpopular idea to pass, so I'm going to sneak
1:56:36
Speaker 1: it through a popular idea. And that's how partisan's left
1:56:40
Speaker 1: and right, no matter which side of the of the
1:56:43
Speaker 1: aisle has the power at the moment, tries to sneak
1:56:46
Speaker 1: things in. And that's what makes by partisan agreements so
1:56:48
Speaker 1: difficult and even more difficult than ever. Look, this is
1:56:55
Speaker 1: if I were to create the you know, this just
1:56:58
Speaker 1: simply as politics as it is. Right, this is how
1:57:00
Speaker 1: it works right now. And if you're gonna if you
1:57:05
Speaker 1: want to try to govern within the system that we have,
1:57:09
Speaker 1: you're kind of stuck having to do this performative leadership
1:57:12
Speaker 1: bullshit test. What would be better a situation where individual
1:57:18
Speaker 1: lawmakers felt as if they had more to worry about
1:57:22
Speaker 1: from their constituents than more to worry about from their party.
1:57:26
Speaker 1: And right now, the particularly in the legislative branch, is
1:57:30
Speaker 1: the party has a bigger role over your ability to
1:57:33
Speaker 1: get anything done. Then if you get act like it's
1:57:36
Speaker 1: easier to be independent minded as a governor. It's even
1:57:38
Speaker 1: somewhat easy to be in a slightly more independent minded
1:57:42
Speaker 1: as being a senator. It is really hard in the
1:57:45
Speaker 1: legislative branch on the on the house side of things,
1:57:48
Speaker 1: whether it's a state house or the US House, if
1:57:51
Speaker 1: you try to operate outside either of the major party structures,
1:57:55
Speaker 1: you just you can't get anything done. The way these
1:57:59
Speaker 1: entities are are structured, make it they This is to
1:58:05
Speaker 1: me what makes some undemocratic institutions is that essentially, even
1:58:10
Speaker 1: though we have a large constituency of Americans and are
1:58:12
Speaker 1: a member of either party, they basically punish any member
1:58:16
Speaker 1: who does not a member of either party in their
1:58:18
Speaker 1: ability to get on the right committees and their ability
1:58:21
Speaker 1: to introduce legislation and their ability to do these things.
1:58:24
Speaker 1: So this is why somewhat brought up the chicken and
1:58:29
Speaker 1: egg problem there, which is, you know, in order to
1:58:34
Speaker 1: make party matter less, you need to almost see the
1:58:37
Speaker 1: whole The rules of all of these institutions completely blow
1:58:41
Speaker 1: up the two party system, and they're totally disincentivized to
1:58:45
Speaker 1: make the system work better for those not inside one
1:58:48
Speaker 1: of the two major parties. And I think that this
1:58:50
Speaker 1: is what makes that that that the problem and why
1:58:54
Speaker 1: are you know why ultimately why most Senate races now
1:59:03
Speaker 1: are slipping into party label territory where the jersey color
1:59:07
Speaker 1: matters more than the individual. And I think we're going
1:59:11
Speaker 1: to write that that is going to that is being
1:59:14
Speaker 1: going to be tested the most in the states of
1:59:18
Speaker 1: Maine in Texas right. Maine is a democratic state that
1:59:21
Speaker 1: has consistently elected and re elected a Republican senator and
1:59:25
Speaker 1: Susan Collins. Because they have you've had a group of
1:59:28
Speaker 1: voters who prioritized the individual over the party label. And
1:59:32
Speaker 1: then in Texas right, you have James Tolerco who's hoping
1:59:35
Speaker 1: he can get a handful of voters to prioritize the
1:59:37
Speaker 1: individual over the party label. I just think the voter
1:59:42
Speaker 1: is more educated than ever and they realize as much
1:59:44
Speaker 1: as they you know, they see their individual member as
1:59:48
Speaker 1: being a little bit more independent of say the national
1:59:50
Speaker 1: party or the state party. At the end of the day,
1:59:54
Speaker 1: ninety five percent of the time they're going to end
1:59:56
Speaker 1: up sticking to the party label that they are, So
1:59:59
Speaker 1: you better be comfortable knowing that going again. And I
2:00:04
Speaker 1: think that that's the I think that's explains why why
2:00:09
Speaker 1: we we're getting so many party line voters and and
2:00:15
Speaker 1: why you know, it's sort of like you can't really
2:00:17
Speaker 1: operate in these legislative branches if you're not essentially somewhat
2:00:22
Speaker 1: party line, if you want to even introduce ideas and
2:00:25
Speaker 1: get new ideas to even be considered. Right, So it
2:00:30
Speaker 1: sort of incentivizes this, and then over time voters are
2:00:33
Speaker 1: getting educated by it, they get it, and that's that's
2:00:38
Speaker 1: why it's possible if Platner wins. I think it's a
2:00:40
Speaker 1: reminder that we're going to some people will say character
2:00:43
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, and I think we're just going to say
2:00:45
Speaker 1: party jersey matters more than character. If that's the situation
2:00:50
Speaker 1: that we get, all right. Next question comes from Luke
2:00:54
Speaker 1: previously from Ohio, now from Connecticut. He writes, and he said, Hey,
2:00:58
Speaker 1: I had a question after your recent comments on on
2:01:00
Speaker 1: Mamdani and Israel. The principle is that modern states shouldn't
2:01:03
Speaker 1: privilege one ethnic or religious group over others. What makes
2:01:06
Speaker 1: Israel the exception? What do you see is the key
2:01:08
Speaker 1: principle behind that distinction. I understand that the Jewish people
2:01:11
Speaker 1: have endured extraordinary persecution, including the Holocaust, but they are
2:01:14
Speaker 1: not the only people that have experienced genocide or systemic persecution.
2:01:17
Speaker 1: It's transgender man. I certainly wouldn't argue that the answer
2:01:20
Speaker 1: is transgender ethno state. I'd rather build societies where everyone
2:01:23
Speaker 1: enjoys equal rights and equal protection under the law. Thanks.
2:01:26
Speaker 1: I think the reason there's some why I take issue
2:01:29
Speaker 1: with what Mamdani said a little bit because and others
2:01:32
Speaker 1: have taken a harder line on what he said, is
2:01:35
Speaker 1: because there are, you know, dozens of states that prioritize
2:01:41
Speaker 1: one religion over the other. And so the question is,
2:01:44
Speaker 1: why did you just single out Israel on this when
2:01:46
Speaker 1: there are plenty of Arab states that prioritize a religion,
2:01:51
Speaker 1: and and it's you know, and it's not even you know,
2:01:54
Speaker 1: it is a Jewish state, but it is not. It
2:01:56
Speaker 1: is also an equal rights state. Now, look, I would say,
2:02:00
Speaker 1: the issue is not the state of Israel. The issue
2:02:02
Speaker 1: is the government of Israel. And so the minute your
2:02:08
Speaker 1: criticism of Israel gets it to the existence of the
2:02:10
Speaker 1: state itself, it is hard for me to take that
2:02:14
Speaker 1: criticism as anything other than an othering of a small
2:02:20
Speaker 1: minority population. Versus, if your criticism of Israel is that
2:02:24
Speaker 1: they're no longer living up that this government is living
2:02:28
Speaker 1: up to the founder's vision of Israel. Well, that's a
2:02:33
Speaker 1: different story, and you're going to certainly have more credibility
2:02:36
Speaker 1: with people like me and others who are highly critical
2:02:40
Speaker 1: of what BB has done. And frankly, you know, there's
2:02:43
Speaker 1: no doubt who's who's certainly got you know, who has
2:02:46
Speaker 1: done more damage to the American relationship with Israel. There's
2:02:53
Speaker 1: no single individual that's done more damage to this than Bbnanyelu.
2:02:57
Speaker 1: He partisanized it, he polarized it. You know, everything he
2:03:01
Speaker 1: did during the Obama era is what led to this moment.
2:03:04
Speaker 1: And his decision to make it a party, you know,
2:03:07
Speaker 1: to essentially side with one party damaged Israel. Right now,
2:03:11
Speaker 1: Israel's on an island on its own. So look he's
2:03:13
Speaker 1: at but you know this, I just you know, the
2:03:20
Speaker 1: immediate criticism of Israel for this when literally there are
2:03:24
Speaker 1: fifty other countries that have a similar relationship with one
2:03:28
Speaker 1: religion over another is it just didn't ring true. And
2:03:34
Speaker 1: the fact that he went there it was sort of
2:03:36
Speaker 1: like I said, it was a clever answer, right, He
2:03:38
Speaker 1: didn't want to say he didn't believe in the state
2:03:40
Speaker 1: of Israel. He just didn't believe in its right to
2:03:42
Speaker 1: be a Jewish state.
2:03:45
Speaker 5: And you know, again it sort of is you could
2:03:50
Speaker 5: what's the difference between you know, Israel and Pakistan for instance,
2:03:57
Speaker 5: you know, with that's preferential treatment for real life, or
2:04:00
Speaker 5: in Indonesia or something like that. So again, I just
2:04:05
Speaker 5: think if you you know your credibility, you know, trying
2:04:10
Speaker 5: to erase the existence of Israel is what makes the
2:04:15
Speaker 5: debate not a debate with a lot of people making
2:04:20
Speaker 5: it about how Netnyahu is twisted and tortured the the
2:04:30
Speaker 5: principles of what the founders of Israel intended and what
2:04:33
Speaker 5: he's done now is two different things. And again, I mean,
2:04:39
Speaker 5: if if the DSA wants to have credibility with uh
2:04:43
Speaker 5: with with certain voters, that they need to start there.
2:04:50
Speaker 1: And when you when you're, when you're essentially your starting
2:04:53
Speaker 1: point is it shouldn't exist. Look, I I think there
2:04:59
Speaker 1: should be critic that Bibe doesn't no longer believe in
2:05:02
Speaker 1: a two state solution, right, and that should be you know,
2:05:07
Speaker 1: if you told me American policy and American aid to
2:05:09
Speaker 1: Israel was tied to Israel pursuing and pushing for a
2:05:16
Speaker 1: two state solution. I think that is something that would
2:05:19
Speaker 1: have wide support in the American diaspora on that front.
2:05:25
Speaker 1: For what it's worth, Mike and Albany, right, say a
2:05:33
Speaker 1: few voting questions for you. Do you think expanding vote
2:05:35
Speaker 1: by mail nationwide could be argued as an issue of
2:05:38
Speaker 1: equal access given the costs and barrier some voters face. Also,
2:05:41
Speaker 1: while Trump can't appear on the ballot for president again,
2:05:43
Speaker 1: could illegally mount a writing camp and after his electoral history,
2:05:47
Speaker 1: do you think it suggests America still isn't ready to
2:05:50
Speaker 1: elect a woman as president. Thanks for you insight, MIKEE
2:05:51
Speaker 1: and Albany. Mike and Albany, Oregon. Excuse me, I just
2:05:54
Speaker 1: said Albany and people are going to jump to opening
2:05:57
Speaker 1: organ that was That's new to me, all right, that's
2:05:59
Speaker 1: a that's quite a few questions there, So let me
2:06:03
Speaker 1: start with expanding vote by mail. Look, I think, look,
2:06:07
Speaker 1: each state has to give equal access to voters, right,
2:06:10
Speaker 1: it is you know, I think that there's you know,
2:06:13
Speaker 1: and states you know, can't sort of prioritize certain sets
2:06:16
Speaker 1: of voters over the others. But it is a state
2:06:21
Speaker 1: by state basis on that. I don't think there's any
2:06:27
Speaker 1: I think, can I call this convenience voting, you know,
2:06:30
Speaker 1: making giving more opportunities to vote that bit on your
2:06:34
Speaker 1: time rather than having to you know, only prioritize one
2:06:38
Speaker 1: day when anything can happen that would you know, get
2:06:40
Speaker 1: in the way of you having an opportunity to get
2:06:42
Speaker 1: to the polls, et cetera. So so I look, I
2:06:49
Speaker 1: think that that's been the best argument for vote by
2:06:52
Speaker 1: mail has been that it gets equal access. But the
2:06:54
Speaker 1: way to at the end of the day, why it
2:06:58
Speaker 1: will never go away and why the republic book and
2:07:00
Speaker 1: Party will never be able to kill mail in voting
2:07:02
Speaker 1: is that suburban voters the up you know, they want
2:07:07
Speaker 1: the convenience voting. And if you get rid of the
2:07:09
Speaker 1: convenience voting, the snowbirds want the convenience voting, you know,
2:07:12
Speaker 1: I mean the original the original vote by mail constituency
2:07:20
Speaker 1: would the snowbirds of Florida and the Republicans dominated that
2:07:23
Speaker 1: until the Democrats copied the tactics and found an incredible
2:07:29
Speaker 1: amount of success. So I think that that is a
2:07:36
Speaker 1: I think the best way to sell it is it
2:07:38
Speaker 1: as an access issue. But I think convenience and access together,
2:07:43
Speaker 1: I think make it easier to sell vote by mail.
2:07:53
Speaker 1: All right, now to get to your second question. While
2:07:55
Speaker 1: Trump can't appear on the Battle of President again, could
2:07:57
Speaker 1: illegally mount a writing campaign. Well, I mean, you know,
2:08:02
Speaker 1: in theory, yes, I mean, the problem is he just
2:08:04
Speaker 1: can't get certified. He can't serve. I will tell you this.
2:08:10
Speaker 1: So I think there is one legal loophole that those
2:08:18
Speaker 1: that are obsessed with this. Steve Bannon is somebody that
2:08:20
Speaker 1: is obsessed with this, that there's one legal loophole in
2:08:24
Speaker 1: the constitution that could provide Trump an opportunity to run
2:08:29
Speaker 1: for a third term. And I will walk you through it,
2:08:32
Speaker 1: because if he did want to run for one more
2:08:36
Speaker 1: full term, he would need to do the following in
2:08:41
Speaker 1: the next six months before the new Congress takes hold,
2:08:48
Speaker 1: and it is the following, resign the presidency and somehow
2:08:52
Speaker 1: get the Republican and then you can and JD. Vance
2:08:55
Speaker 1: agrees to a point, Trump the vice president and the
2:08:59
Speaker 1: Republicans it confirms him and he becomes the sitting vice
2:09:02
Speaker 1: president before the new Senate takes over. And so why
2:09:09
Speaker 1: is that the loophole? Well, there has been sort of
2:09:14
Speaker 1: agreed upon constitutional scholarship that says that essentially, if you
2:09:19
Speaker 1: haven't you remember LBJ gets the presidency after the halfway
2:09:26
Speaker 1: mark of the Kennedy presidency. And so the interpretation of
2:09:31
Speaker 1: this of the two terms then was because he had
2:09:34
Speaker 1: not served more than half of one term, he was
2:09:38
Speaker 1: actually eligible to serve two full terms. So he could
2:09:42
Speaker 1: have served almost essentially ten right, you know, nine years
2:09:46
Speaker 1: plus plus plus about forty days, you know, nine years
2:09:52
Speaker 1: and forty days plus the extra twenty So basically nine
2:09:55
Speaker 1: years and two months essentially was what he was constantitutionally
2:10:00
Speaker 1: eligible to serve. Well, if Donald Trump, you know, wanted to,
2:10:06
Speaker 1: and this is how you do it and which is
2:10:10
Speaker 1: you would have You would get a Justice Department Office
2:10:13
Speaker 1: of Legal Counsel to do an OLC memo that would
2:10:16
Speaker 1: sort of address a circumstance like this and just sort
2:10:19
Speaker 1: of file it away at the LLC as a Justice
2:10:22
Speaker 1: Department interpretation. You would then execute this plan. Democrats would
2:10:28
Speaker 1: raise constitutional questions, the Justice Department would release this Office
2:10:32
Speaker 1: of Legal Counsel, and then the courts would have to
2:10:35
Speaker 1: decide how to do this. And you know, the point
2:10:39
Speaker 1: being is then there's a legal thread. Well, he hadn't
2:10:42
Speaker 1: served a full two years of that second term. Now
2:10:45
Speaker 1: he's the sitting vice president. He's only served less than
2:10:48
Speaker 1: six years. If LBJ could have been eligible to serve
2:10:52
Speaker 1: one more four year term, then why couldn't Donald Trump
2:10:56
Speaker 1: be eligible to serve one four year term? And oh,
2:10:57
Speaker 1: by the way, what's magical about being I mean the
2:11:00
Speaker 1: appointed vice president? Guess who would get to oversee his
2:11:04
Speaker 1: own certification on January sixth? Going in on that. So,
2:11:09
Speaker 1: what I've outlined to you is a completely nightmare legal
2:11:12
Speaker 1: scenario that I fear has just enough thread to make
2:11:18
Speaker 1: certain judges find a constitutionality to what would be this
2:11:22
Speaker 1: brazenly unconstitutional power grab. Right, but you might have it
2:11:29
Speaker 1: isn't going to be clean on the unconstitutional ruling side
2:11:32
Speaker 1: of things. So look, it's pretty clear if you're not
2:11:37
Speaker 1: eligible to serve you know, it is it is? You know,
2:11:43
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, this is the vulnerability that I've identified
2:11:47
Speaker 1: and a few other people have identified. If you're looking
2:11:50
Speaker 1: for a way, now, this would mean a JD. Vance
2:11:56
Speaker 1: would be willing to essentially be a puppet president? Right?
2:12:01
Speaker 1: Is he willing to do that? Are there are there
2:12:05
Speaker 1: fifty Republicans willing to confirm Donald Trump as vice president
2:12:09
Speaker 1: in this current Senate? Are we sure, right, Bill Cassidy,
2:12:12
Speaker 1: Tom Tilli's, John Cornyn, Lisa Murkowski, Right, you could, just so.
2:12:17
Speaker 1: I don't think this is a realistic scenario politically in
2:12:21
Speaker 1: our current political environment. But if you're asking me for
2:12:26
Speaker 1: how would one go about it in a way that
2:12:30
Speaker 1: would at least create a question about its legality and
2:12:34
Speaker 1: it would end up in the courts. I think this
2:12:36
Speaker 1: scenario him running is a write in. I think Democrats
2:12:41
Speaker 1: would love nothing more for Donald Trump to run as
2:12:43
Speaker 1: a right in, and you would have this situation, I mean,
2:12:46
Speaker 1: you know it is, it is, he could, and I
2:12:52
Speaker 1: don't think it would be very successful. Now, and then
2:12:57
Speaker 1: your last question, after his electoral history, you think it suggts.
2:13:00
Speaker 1: America still isn't ready to elect a woman as president.
2:13:04
Speaker 1: So it's interesting that Donald Trump, right, you know, he's
2:13:09
Speaker 1: run for president three times, he defeated women. Twice, he
2:13:11
Speaker 1: lost to the only man he faced, and I know
2:13:19
Speaker 1: it's easy to assume it means that women can't win.
2:13:23
Speaker 1: The problem with being able to make that declaration is
2:13:26
Speaker 1: you know how much was Clinton's last name and how
2:13:31
Speaker 1: much was her gender? What mattered more? I will I've
2:13:36
Speaker 1: I think some of you have heard me say this
2:13:38
Speaker 1: a million times, like I'll go to my grave believing
2:13:40
Speaker 1: Hillary Smith defeats Donald Trump and that it was good
2:13:44
Speaker 1: that it was her last name, not her first name
2:13:46
Speaker 1: that was the problem, and that it was the idea
2:13:49
Speaker 1: that she was not changed and Clinton was a brand
2:13:52
Speaker 1: political name, that it was falling out of favor, and
2:13:55
Speaker 1: brand names and politics were falling out of favor. And
2:13:59
Speaker 1: we know, my goodness, it's obvious to see this now
2:14:03
Speaker 1: ten years later. In the moment, it wasn't easy to see,
2:14:06
Speaker 1: and we can't pretend it was easy to see at
2:14:09
Speaker 1: that time. So again, we're all smarter, you know, with distance,
2:14:14
Speaker 1: and it's pretty it's pretty easy to see these days.
2:14:17
Speaker 1: So I don't think that's a fair test of whether
2:14:20
Speaker 1: the country is ready to elect a woman president. And
2:14:23
Speaker 1: then there's Kamala Harris. Well, she's a sitting vice president
2:14:28
Speaker 1: for an unpopular president trying to seek election on her own.
2:14:32
Speaker 1: No vice president has been able to pull that off, right,
2:14:34
Speaker 1: Al Gore couldn't do it, and he had a and
2:14:37
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton was was popular as president and unpopular personally,
2:14:42
Speaker 1: and it was that that distinction that caused Gore. You know,
2:14:47
Speaker 1: that basically is why Gore came up short, right, Hubert
2:14:51
Speaker 1: Humphrey in one of the closest elections of the twentieth
2:14:55
Speaker 1: century in nineteen sixty eight. He was trying to defeat
2:14:59
Speaker 1: a unpopular you know he's trying he was trying to
2:15:03
Speaker 1: replace an unpopular president that he was serving. So it is,
2:15:09
Speaker 1: you know, unpopular vice You know, vice presidents of unpopular
2:15:14
Speaker 1: presidents rarely win. It doesn't matter what their gender is.
2:15:18
Speaker 1: So I guess my argument is, we haven't had a
2:15:21
Speaker 1: fair test yet on this front. And I understand why.
2:15:28
Speaker 1: It's easy to say what you've said because what we've seen,
2:15:31
Speaker 1: But I just I just don't think we've had a
2:15:35
Speaker 1: fair test. And because you've had two there were two
2:15:42
Speaker 1: other issues both Harris and Clinton were dealing with that
2:15:46
Speaker 1: were very frankly, frankly conventional political problems, meaning they were
2:15:50
Speaker 1: dragging around somebody else's political baggage and it was simply
2:15:56
Speaker 1: too heavy for them to get across the finish line
2:15:59
Speaker 1: with all right, next question comes from a man, Adam B.
2:16:08
Speaker 1: In the most southern place you can go in South Florida, Davey, Florida.
2:16:14
Speaker 1: He is, of course, I think he might be the
2:16:17
Speaker 1: at least I think he's an elected officer in the
2:16:20
Speaker 1: Chuck and the as Chuck five Timers Club at this point,
2:16:23
Speaker 1: not just a member. I think he's now an officer.
2:16:26
Speaker 1: He goes what you take on the MPR retraction regarding
2:16:29
Speaker 1: Justice Alito's retirement. How does the story like that happen?
2:16:31
Speaker 1: Was it a reporting mistake or could the reporter have
2:16:34
Speaker 1: had solid information that changed? Thanks? Again, as always, Look,
2:16:37
Speaker 1: I'm just going to take Nina Todenberg at her word.
2:16:40
Speaker 1: She sort of explained how it happened, which to me
2:16:42
Speaker 1: explains why you know this was this was the look
2:16:49
Speaker 1: Nina Totenberg file on her sword, but this was the
2:16:51
Speaker 1: fault of her boss's Basically, well, it's Nina Totenberg. I'm
2:16:55
Speaker 1: not going to question her. She must have a better
2:16:57
Speaker 1: source or you know, she's got this. I that That's
2:17:02
Speaker 1: what strikes me is the possibility that this happened right,
2:17:05
Speaker 1: that it was, that it was she misheard something, she
2:17:11
Speaker 1: thought she heard what she heard. She was sort of
2:17:14
Speaker 1: It's a classic case of confirmation bias. Right, her ear
2:17:18
Speaker 1: was already tuned in to the word retirement, and the
2:17:21
Speaker 1: minute she had retirement, her brain went immediately right. She
2:17:24
Speaker 1: was so this is like and by the way. This
2:17:26
Speaker 1: is confirmation. Bias and stories are something you're constantly worried
2:17:29
Speaker 1: about as a reporter. You're looking to see a divisive
2:17:34
Speaker 1: story in the electorate you're trying to cover, and then
2:17:37
Speaker 1: you find the divisiveness and you lean into it, right,
2:17:39
Speaker 1: you know, so it is you know, she's she's there
2:17:42
Speaker 1: in part waiting to see you know, there's all these
2:17:44
Speaker 1: rumors that Alito's going to retire, and so boom, she
2:17:47
Speaker 1: takes one word and she jumps to it. So if
2:17:50
Speaker 1: you were to ask me, I think it's two things.
2:17:52
Speaker 5: One is.
2:17:54
Speaker 1: This is a reminder that that that some times been there,
2:18:01
Speaker 1: done that disease that any reporter can get. I've had
2:18:05
Speaker 1: it myself where you just it's always been this way,
2:18:09
Speaker 1: so oh yeah, this I know exactly what's happening, and
2:18:11
Speaker 1: then you just sort of and by the way, eighty
2:18:13
Speaker 1: percent of the time that instinct serves you well, But
2:18:18
Speaker 1: twenty percent of the time you can have egg on
2:18:20
Speaker 1: your face, and she had egg on her face. Here's
2:18:22
Speaker 1: what I want to highlight, though, what a reputable news
2:18:26
Speaker 1: organization does. It's exactly what MPR did, which is explain
2:18:29
Speaker 1: how all this happened. Put the reporter on here she
2:18:32
Speaker 1: did every I mean, I you know, it really frustrates me.
2:18:36
Speaker 1: You know, the way the partisans weaponize mistakes in the press.
2:18:41
Speaker 1: Everybody makes mistakes, and the weaponization of ah, this proves this,
2:18:47
Speaker 1: This proves that right, whether it's a partisan activist on
2:18:51
Speaker 1: the left or the partisan activists on the right. And
2:18:53
Speaker 1: to me, ultimately, a news organization that owns their mistakes
2:18:57
Speaker 1: explains how it happened is a new organization I'm gonna
2:19:00
Speaker 1: trust even more than the one that claims they never
2:19:04
Speaker 1: make a mistake, because it's human beings. Everybody makes a mistake,
2:19:08
Speaker 1: by the way, even the artificial human beings. I mean,
2:19:11
Speaker 1: any of you that have dabbled in the ar large
2:19:14
Speaker 1: language models. This happens every day. You know, it is
2:19:18
Speaker 1: it is certainly you know. My initial use of AI
2:19:22
Speaker 1: has made me I will not use any one model
2:19:25
Speaker 1: for anything because I keep for the stuff that I
2:19:29
Speaker 1: know that where I'm an expert on those things, I
2:19:32
Speaker 1: see how many things they're missing. So for the stuff
2:19:35
Speaker 1: i'm not an expert at, I'm extrapolating and assuming, well,
2:19:38
Speaker 1: if they're screwing up the stuff I know, I'm sure
2:19:40
Speaker 1: they're screwing up the stuff I don't know, and you've
2:19:42
Speaker 1: got to. You've got to You've got a triple check.
2:19:45
Speaker 1: And you know, I pit models against each other, and
2:19:49
Speaker 1: you know, I go down multiple rabbit holes in the
2:19:51
Speaker 1: same question and then see where I find contradictions and
2:19:54
Speaker 1: then go to the source. I mean, you just you.
2:19:57
Speaker 1: You know, as a reporter, you're kind of you're all
2:20:00
Speaker 1: you have is your credibility on that front. So I
2:20:05
Speaker 1: sort of see how it happened, and I think that
2:20:07
Speaker 1: it was you know, she you know, she didn't throw
2:20:12
Speaker 1: her own editor on the bus, but I might have
2:20:14
Speaker 1: somebody there just sort of gave her a pass because
2:20:17
Speaker 1: she's eaton Toteberk and a Todaberg and you know, she's
2:20:19
Speaker 1: had some great scoops for MPR of the Year. So
2:20:23
Speaker 1: it just feels like you had an operation that was
2:20:26
Speaker 1: sort of ready for breaking news, and then you know
2:20:31
Speaker 1: one of their old timers had it and did it,
2:20:34
Speaker 1: and lo and behold, you had the mistake that you made.
2:20:38
Speaker 1: Now a lot of super slutes have noted that in
2:20:43
Speaker 1: the first report that had the word Friday, So now
2:20:45
Speaker 1: that the biggest conspiracy theory as well. She knows she
2:20:48
Speaker 1: already has it. She just thought it went early and
2:20:50
Speaker 1: then we'll see it later. By the way, I you know,
2:20:56
Speaker 1: Alito could retire anytime this summer, and I do I
2:21:03
Speaker 1: still think that the pressure on a lead out to
2:21:06
Speaker 1: retire is going to is going to increase because I
2:21:09
Speaker 1: do think there are plenty of Republicans. When you look
2:21:12
Speaker 1: at the Senate map, if you you know, I know,
2:21:17
Speaker 1: the average Republican strategists will believe that if you can
2:21:20
Speaker 1: make the court one of the three or four most
2:21:22
Speaker 1: important issues, and who's going to be on the court,
2:21:26
Speaker 1: and you have sort of a tangible opening to show
2:21:29
Speaker 1: this that it's a way to motivate voters that may
2:21:33
Speaker 1: not be normally motivated. And the Republicans in particular have
2:21:36
Speaker 1: a base have a problem there. And when you look
2:21:40
Speaker 1: at the Senate map, which all leans red right Ohio, Iowa, Alaska, Nebraska, Kansas, Mississippi, Texas,
2:21:46
Speaker 1: you know, however big or small you want to expand
2:21:49
Speaker 1: your potential target list, all of them are red leaning states,
2:21:53
Speaker 1: which means the court, you know it, you know, any
2:21:56
Speaker 1: way you can goose turn out on the right, I
2:21:59
Speaker 1: think is is a net plus for for the for
2:22:02
Speaker 1: the R side. So I actually think, you know, I'm
2:22:06
Speaker 1: still on Alito retirement watch, and I'll be on really
2:22:08
Speaker 1: Elito retirement watch, really, uh until until September. I think
2:22:14
Speaker 1: it is I think this is the I think this
2:22:19
Speaker 1: is the last tool in the toolbox that they will
2:22:22
Speaker 1: use before the fall, if they have to. Tyler H.
2:22:30
Speaker 1: Cheer from Michigan's fifth District. He says, how difficult do
2:22:33
Speaker 1: you think it will be for Jadvance to secure the
2:22:35
Speaker 1: Republican nomination given the political baggage he may inherit from Trump?
2:22:38
Speaker 1: And you think he'll continue embracing some of the same
2:22:40
Speaker 1: Trump isms like claims of election fraud. Thanks so much,
2:22:43
Speaker 1: Tyler H. Well, some of it is going to depend
2:22:46
Speaker 1: on on how is Advance and Rubio running against each
2:22:54
Speaker 1: other or is there only one sort of Trump friendly
2:22:57
Speaker 1: candidate right if he's got one, If there's just if
2:22:59
Speaker 1: Rubio is stood down and it's just fans against say
2:23:03
Speaker 1: Glenn Youngkin Ran Paul, then I think it's going to
2:23:07
Speaker 1: be really difficult to say. Look, a sitting vice president
2:23:14
Speaker 1: that wants to get a presidential nomination of their party
2:23:17
Speaker 1: is rarely denied that. I mean, I'm sitting here, I'm
2:23:20
Speaker 1: going in my quick back of the envelope math here, right,
2:23:23
Speaker 1: you know, sitting vice presidents. Okay, you know Dan Quayle
2:23:28
Speaker 1: was you know, went nowhere in his campaign, but he
2:23:31
Speaker 1: was four years removed from being the sitting vice president.
2:23:36
Speaker 1: So you know, it's very you know, the only thing
2:23:41
Speaker 1: harder is to dislodge the sitting president from a nomination.
2:23:45
Speaker 1: Dislodging a sitting vice president from a party's nomination is
2:23:49
Speaker 1: not easy, And so, you know, I expect it that
2:23:54
Speaker 1: there'll be a moment or two where you're like, oh,
2:23:56
Speaker 1: is this this is going to go south? Is this
2:23:59
Speaker 1: not going to go well? Type of thing? But I suspect,
2:24:05
Speaker 1: you know, part that again, it's as if there's no
2:24:09
Speaker 1: other sort of Trump friendly candidates in the race. If
2:24:12
Speaker 1: there's multiple Trump friendly candidates, then then Vance has less
2:24:16
Speaker 1: room to maneuver. He can't risk alienating them because we
2:24:20
Speaker 1: know this seems to still work now, I don't know
2:24:23
Speaker 1: how much it's going to work a year from now.
2:24:26
Speaker 1: If Republicans lose the midterms sort of decisively, does that
2:24:32
Speaker 1: start to make Republicans wanting to turn the page on
2:24:35
Speaker 1: Trump and does that become damaging to Vance? Right? So
2:24:38
Speaker 1: I think Vance is going to try to be this
2:24:42
Speaker 1: sort of different Republican that he wants to be like.
2:24:46
Speaker 1: He clearly wants to carve out something different that really
2:24:49
Speaker 1: isn't trumpy, that is a bit more, that has a
2:24:53
Speaker 1: little bit more intellectual riggor behind it. Right. I think
2:24:59
Speaker 1: he's I think there is. I think he's a real nationalist.
2:25:02
Speaker 1: I think he's a real isolationist, and I think that's
2:25:07
Speaker 1: where he wants to take the party. I think he
2:25:12
Speaker 1: has a you know, it's funny, they're gonna they're gonna
2:25:15
Speaker 1: use this socialism. They're going to attack the left on socialism.
2:25:18
Speaker 1: But you know, he's he's pretty pro socialism on some
2:25:22
Speaker 1: things too, especially the nationalizing of certain industries and all
2:25:25
Speaker 1: of that. So I I I think he's going to
2:25:29
Speaker 1: want to try to sort of be who he really
2:25:34
Speaker 1: is ideologically. But a lot of that depends on whether
2:25:38
Speaker 1: whether he can, you know, if Rubio's if both of
2:25:40
Speaker 1: them are running, he may feel a little bit And
2:25:44
Speaker 1: I have to tell you, yeah, I'm right now. I
2:25:48
Speaker 1: think it's not even a close call. Trump would prefer
2:25:51
Speaker 1: Rubio over over Vance. And it weirdly, it's because Rubio
2:25:54
Speaker 1: and Trump are closer than Vance and Trump are advances.
2:25:58
Speaker 1: You know, Vance is got the son on his side,
2:26:03
Speaker 1: but Rubya's got daddy on his side. Rubio has worked
2:26:09
Speaker 1: Donald for over for a little less than a decade now,
2:26:12
Speaker 1: he worked his way back in. He turned him into
2:26:15
Speaker 1: a Miami Cuban Republican. He got him, you know, sort
2:26:20
Speaker 1: of becoming best friends with the remaining living bay of
2:26:26
Speaker 1: pigs veterans. And you know in that sense, you know,
2:26:33
Speaker 1: I just think Trump right now, there is a all
2:26:40
Speaker 1: of Trump's rich friends in mar A Lago would prefer Rubio,
2:26:44
Speaker 1: and Trump spends a lot more time with his rich
2:26:46
Speaker 1: friends in mar A Lago than he does with the
2:26:49
Speaker 1: folks that want fans. Just something to think about. That
2:27:00
Speaker 1: My last question for the weekend here, hope you're enjoying
2:27:03
Speaker 1: your summer going for my second question, as I worked
2:27:06
Speaker 1: toward the five timers club, realistically, what's the latest Supreme
2:27:09
Speaker 1: Court justice could retire and still be confirmed by current
2:27:11
Speaker 1: Republican Senate? Could a retirement after the election is still
2:27:14
Speaker 1: lead to a confirmation before the new Senate is seated,
2:27:16
Speaker 1: or are there ways Democrats could slow the process? Or
2:27:18
Speaker 1: a d in Las Vegas their Congressional District PS is
2:27:21
Speaker 1: a Jets fan Vegas has them and five and a
2:27:24
Speaker 1: half wins this season? Are you taking the over or
2:27:27
Speaker 1: the under? Let me take that first. Well, that feels
2:27:37
Speaker 1: like a correct number. I don't see the big leap, right,
2:27:45
Speaker 1: I don't see and then you know they've got a
2:27:50
Speaker 1: division problem, right, they are clearly the fourth worst team.
2:27:54
Speaker 1: I think the Dolphins have done a lot more work
2:27:57
Speaker 1: in the off season. I'm a believer in the league,
2:27:59
Speaker 1: well a little bit of that's the packer in me. Obviously,
2:28:04
Speaker 1: Buffalo's buffalo, and Josh Allen, as long as he's healthy,
2:28:08
Speaker 1: they've got ten to twelve winnings in him any times. Obviously,
2:28:12
Speaker 1: I think we all assume the Patriots are going to
2:28:14
Speaker 1: take some step back, but it ain't going to be
2:28:16
Speaker 1: like six wins, right, it's probably and they're so five
2:28:21
Speaker 1: and a half feels about the right line and being
2:28:25
Speaker 1: the Jets. You know, yeah, you have to be smoking
2:28:30
Speaker 1: the hopium if you take the over, right, the the
2:28:34
Speaker 1: the smart betters taking the under on that one. And
2:28:38
Speaker 1: my guess is the money line shades to the under
2:28:40
Speaker 1: on that one. Let me go to your other question
2:28:43
Speaker 1: about the Supreme Court. I do not think there's enough
2:28:45
Speaker 1: legislative days to pull that off. After the election and
2:28:48
Speaker 1: That's why I go back. I should have combined the
2:28:52
Speaker 1: two questions. You know, that's me not planning well enough
2:28:55
Speaker 1: here based on the other Supreme Court the the question
2:28:59
Speaker 1: I turned into a Supreme Court question. But what I
2:29:02
Speaker 1: would but what I would h suggest on this one
2:29:09
Speaker 1: is I do think September one is the realistic And
2:29:13
Speaker 1: here's the point this, this isn't you know, if you're
2:29:18
Speaker 1: if you're, if you want to lead a if you're
2:29:20
Speaker 1: trying to replace that seat, you got to do it
2:29:23
Speaker 1: where you know, you have a Republican Senate and you
2:29:27
Speaker 1: want to do it when you think it could have
2:29:29
Speaker 1: electoral value. So no, you know, in theory, could they
2:29:35
Speaker 1: you know, could it be done? It could, but you'd
2:29:37
Speaker 1: have to have the cooperation of the minority party, and
2:29:39
Speaker 1: you're just not gonna have the cooperation of the minority party.
2:29:44
Speaker 1: So no, you know, Now Republicans hold the Senate, that's
2:29:50
Speaker 1: a different story. But I don't suspect, you know, I
2:29:53
Speaker 1: don't you know, I think if if, if Alito retires,
2:29:58
Speaker 1: the point is to try to find electoral benet fit
2:30:00
Speaker 1: out of it. And there are enough red leaning Republican
2:30:04
Speaker 1: seats that tell me that there is real electoral benefit
2:30:07
Speaker 1: out of this if they it could be may not matter, right,
2:30:13
Speaker 1: It just may may not matter. Conservative voters may feel
2:30:17
Speaker 1: more satisfied about the direction of the court than maybe
2:30:23
Speaker 1: sometimes the press gives out on this right, you know
2:30:26
Speaker 1: that the social media conservatives are not where normal conservatives
2:30:30
Speaker 1: are about this court, and they may not feel a
2:30:32
Speaker 1: sense of urgency since, Oh, robiv it's been overturned and
2:30:36
Speaker 1: I've got you know, what's the what's the compelling reason?
2:30:40
Speaker 1: You know, with abortion gone as sort of the galvanizing
2:30:44
Speaker 1: force behind judicial politics, that is a curiosity I have
2:30:50
Speaker 1: here of whether it does have what would it have
2:30:53
Speaker 1: the same resonance as it did have in eighteen as
2:30:57
Speaker 1: it did have in sixteen? Think in both cases, you know,
2:31:03
Speaker 1: we talked about some what ifs before. If Scalia is
2:31:06
Speaker 1: alive on election day November sixteen, Donald Trump never went
2:31:09
Speaker 1: to the presidency, And if there's no Brett Kavanaugh confirmation,
2:31:17
Speaker 1: does Claire mccaskell win reelection in Missouri? Maybe so we
2:31:24
Speaker 1: have seen this work, But both of those instances took
2:31:27
Speaker 1: place before the overturning. For the Dobs decision, does it
2:31:31
Speaker 1: have the same ability to fire up a certain segment
2:31:35
Speaker 1: of the Republican electorate that it did in twenty sixteen,
2:31:39
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. That's an open question. I don't have a
2:31:41
Speaker 1: good answer for that, but that's that's the one counterfactual
2:31:45
Speaker 1: I'd offer up on that. All Right, Well, look, I
2:31:52
Speaker 1: fourth of July. I'm enjoying some Wimbledon, I'm enjoying some
2:31:56
Speaker 1: World Cup. I'm really enjoying some that's baseball, and and
2:32:02
Speaker 1: and how that's all going? Mm hm? Do we do
2:32:08
Speaker 1: we need to worry about what happens if the if
2:32:14
Speaker 1: the US keeps moving and getting closer and closer to
2:32:18
Speaker 1: being a realistic contender for the whole thing, how will
2:32:24
Speaker 1: the world handle that? I will admit to being a
2:32:29
Speaker 1: little concern at whether we will anger the world more.
2:32:34
Speaker 1: I sort of there's a part of me that thinks,
2:32:37
Speaker 1: maybe if we get to the final four, we should
2:32:39
Speaker 1: be happy and and and and but if we win
2:32:41
Speaker 1: the whole thing, will the world celebrate or or or
2:32:47
Speaker 1: or will we make our image problem that much worse?
2:32:53
Speaker 1: So there's there's there's a small part of being worried, like,
2:32:56
Speaker 1: how's how's the world going to handle if we somehow
2:32:59
Speaker 1: become a become a real contender here? But in all seriousness,
2:33:03
Speaker 1: look enjoy the fourth. Remember, the most patriotic thing you
2:33:09
Speaker 1: can do is to love your country, and to criticize
2:33:13
Speaker 1: your country when they're doing things wrong, and to stand
2:33:17
Speaker 1: up for what you think should be right. That's the
2:33:21
Speaker 1: beauty of this place. So enjoy the fourth your way.
2:33:26
Speaker 1: Don't let somebody tell you what patriotism is. Patriotism is
2:33:34
Speaker 1: having the ability two give your country tough love when
2:33:42
Speaker 1: you know tough love is needed. And loving your country
2:33:47
Speaker 1: is defending the place when others are coming after you
2:33:50
Speaker 1: for no reason anyway. So with that, I know it's
2:33:54
Speaker 1: on a little hokey, but I'm just so frustrated that
2:33:59
Speaker 1: he's ruined America's two hundred fiftieth birthday. But that doesn't
2:34:04
Speaker 1: mean he can ruin. He has to ruin your celebration
2:34:07
Speaker 1: the way you want to do it, So please do it.
2:34:09
Speaker 1: And with that, I'll see you next week.
2:34:12
Speaker 2: M m m m m m hmmm hmm