Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'LITTLE HOUSE ON THE PRAIRIE' STAR SOBS IN COURT OVER SEX CHARGES

Transcript

'LITTLE HOUSE ON THE PRAIRIE' STAR SOBS IN COURT OVER SEX CHARGES · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Little House on the Prairie
0:08
Speaker 1: star sobs in court over sex charges. I'm Nancy Grace.
0:15
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
0:17
Speaker 1: being with us.
0:18
Speaker 2: Timothy Busfield, a well known actor, director, and producer, now
0:22
Speaker 2: finds himself not behind the lens, but directly in front
0:26
Speaker 2: of it, facing disturbing allegations that threatened to redefine his
0:30
Speaker 2: public image.
0:31
Speaker 1: We all know who Melissa Gilbert is, the star of
0:36
Speaker 1: Little House.
0:36
Speaker 3: On the Prairie that ran for years and years and years.
0:40
Speaker 1: People watched her grow up and here she is now.
0:46
Speaker 1: But many people didn't recognize the name Timothy Busfield. But
0:51
Speaker 1: I beck you recognize this quiz show, Field of Dreams,
0:56
Speaker 1: Revenge of the Nerds, Wow Bloods, Striking Distance, Lizzie McGuire, Entourage,
1:05
Speaker 1: Sleepy Hollow, Matt Locke, the Client List, West Wing, Lois
1:12
Speaker 1: and Clark, Joan of Arcadia, Stripes. It goes on and
1:18
Speaker 1: on and on. This is Us, Graceland, FBI Most Wanted.
1:24
Speaker 3: I've got rings of titles.
1:28
Speaker 1: Timothy Busfil connected to all of these hits there he
1:35
Speaker 1: is now a famous, famous actor director, now brought in
1:42
Speaker 1: court in shackles after.
1:46
Speaker 4: This at least ten heavily armed US marshals from the
1:50
Speaker 4: New York Regional Task Force gather at the upstate home
1:53
Speaker 4: of award winning actor director Timothy Busfield. The agent's wearing
1:57
Speaker 4: helmets and protective gear, use a battering ram to reach
1:59
Speaker 4: the door, gaining access to the home, not knowing what
2:03
Speaker 4: they will find as the property is searched for evidence.
2:06
Speaker 1: That from our friends at Daily Mail, and you see
2:08
Speaker 1: the use of a battering ram, which is very, very unusual.
2:15
Speaker 1: To Chris Melcher joining US high profile celebrity lawyer partner
2:20
Speaker 1: Wolveser Melcher.
2:23
Speaker 3: Question to you, Melcher, how often.
2:25
Speaker 1: Have you seen a battering ram used to get to
2:29
Speaker 1: a defendant.
2:31
Speaker 5: The battering ram seems excessive, but I have definitely seen
2:34
Speaker 5: it in my practice when law enforcement enters a home,
2:37
Speaker 5: which is an inherently dangerous thing to do.
2:39
Speaker 1: Guys, you're seeing a shot from our friends at the
2:41
Speaker 1: Daily Mail. This is when in full tactical gear LA
2:46
Speaker 1: law enforcement descends on the upstate New York home of
2:50
Speaker 1: Little House on the Prairie star Melissa Gilbert and husband
2:53
Speaker 1: actor director Timothy Bussfield. As you heard earlier, not knowing
2:58
Speaker 1: what would be inside, they batter the door down that
3:04
Speaker 1: from our friends at Daily Mail, which leads us to
3:09
Speaker 1: now tonight, in the last hours, Busfeld in a court
3:15
Speaker 1: in New Mexico, answering up to charges of child sex abuse.
3:22
Speaker 3: Now in court, the argument in.
3:24
Speaker 1: Court that this whole child sex abuse claim is fabricated
3:31
Speaker 1: over revenge. Okay, joining me and all star panels straight
3:35
Speaker 1: out to Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter at the US
3:38
Speaker 1: Sun on the story from the very beginning, Jessica, thank
3:41
Speaker 1: you for being with us.
3:42
Speaker 3: What is she talking about? Revenge?
3:46
Speaker 6: So the boys were basically taking off the show sometime
3:50
Speaker 6: in early twenty twenty four, and apparently the parents were
3:54
Speaker 6: very upset about this. It sounds like from the description
3:58
Speaker 6: of what the defense attorney Amber was saying, is that
4:01
Speaker 6: the boys had basically aged out, Like the role was
4:04
Speaker 6: only over the course of a couple of years, and
4:07
Speaker 6: the boys had suddenly between COVID and other like delays
4:11
Speaker 6: in filming, the boys had basically aged out, and so
4:13
Speaker 6: they decided to replace them with younger actors, and so
4:18
Speaker 6: it was, you know, they were off the show and
4:21
Speaker 6: then all the way in November of twenty twenty four
4:24
Speaker 6: is the first time we hear an allegation that Timothy
4:27
Speaker 6: had allegedly done something untowards towards the boys.
4:31
Speaker 1: Dave mac uh, maybe I need to check my if
4:33
Speaker 1: they hear Dave mac joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter.
4:37
Speaker 1: But does a witness state that the boy's mother said,
4:44
Speaker 1: upon learning the boys the twin boys, were not going
4:46
Speaker 1: to be brought back to the set, I'm going to
4:48
Speaker 1: get his ass.
4:50
Speaker 3: Did she say that? According to a witness.
4:52
Speaker 7: Nancy, the lead actress of this series is the one
4:56
Speaker 7: who is they say actually overheard that the mother of
5:02
Speaker 7: the twins said we're going to get rid of that.
5:04
Speaker 7: We are going to get his ass.
5:06
Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to get to the claims in just
5:10
Speaker 1: a moment. The actual claims in an indictment that looks
5:15
Speaker 1: bad and apparently the judge bought into it, you know,
5:20
Speaker 1: to veteran defense attorney Chris Melcher joining US, Chris, going
5:26
Speaker 1: into a case where you do not have forensic evidence,
5:30
Speaker 1: you don't have DNA, you don't have a fingerprint, you
5:33
Speaker 1: don't have a confession, and you don't.
5:35
Speaker 3: Have an eyewitness. What you do have is a victim.
5:41
Speaker 1: And if your victim can be attacked, and remember these
5:45
Speaker 1: were little boys, and the mother allegedly said, I'm going
5:48
Speaker 1: to get his ass for not bringing my children back.
5:53
Speaker 1: That could be a mortal blow to the state's case.
5:55
Speaker 5: Absolutely, Nancy, I'm really surprised that this case was even
5:59
Speaker 5: filed just based on the Affidavid that was that was
6:03
Speaker 5: presented to the court and the information that's come out
6:07
Speaker 5: now is devastating, and it just seems to me that
6:11
Speaker 5: he's innocent and that I don't really believe this case
6:15
Speaker 5: is long for the world. I'm not based on what
6:17
Speaker 5: we're seeing.
6:19
Speaker 1: Well, isn't it true, Chris Melcher, that that's what you're
6:21
Speaker 1: paid to think. You're a defense attorney and you are
6:26
Speaker 1: paid to state my client citizen, Just yes, No, isn't
6:30
Speaker 1: that what you're paid to do.
6:31
Speaker 3: Well, it's the harsh true.
6:34
Speaker 5: As a defense attorney. Yeah, but as a citizen here
6:37
Speaker 5: just reviewing this information, there is no reasonable prospect that
6:42
Speaker 5: the prosecutor can secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt in.
6:47
Speaker 3: My mind, all on this moment.
6:49
Speaker 1: You do know, Melcher about similar transactions claims of abuse
6:55
Speaker 1: on teens and young people dating back to nineteen ninety five,
7:00
Speaker 1: For you think all that.
7:03
Speaker 3: Those aren't that didn't happen either.
7:05
Speaker 5: Those aren't really similar, There's no way.
7:08
Speaker 1: So it always happens to younger individuals sixteen years old,
7:17
Speaker 1: seventeen years old. It often happens in relation to a
7:22
Speaker 1: TV or movie set. There is always a position, like
7:28
Speaker 1: a fiduciary position. For instance, he is in charge and
7:33
Speaker 1: the other person is coming to audition or to try
7:37
Speaker 1: out or to be mentored. So I see a lot
7:42
Speaker 1: of similarities, but I do agree a case in chief
7:49
Speaker 1: must stand on its own. The similar transactions are to
7:53
Speaker 1: corroborate or bolster your case in chief.
7:56
Speaker 3: So who are we going to believe? Could all be true?
8:01
Speaker 1: Could the mother be held bent on revenge and the
8:03
Speaker 1: boys be telling the truth. There's problems with that too.
8:08
Speaker 1: This case is riddled with problems. That doesn't mean it
8:11
Speaker 1: didn't happen. But straight back out to Jessica Finn joining us.
8:16
Speaker 3: What is Fayerburgh saying.
8:19
Speaker 1: She's saying that what one of the boy's parents was
8:22
Speaker 1: a lawyer that had been disbarred and that they were
8:24
Speaker 1: running out of money. Explained to me what she's arguing
8:27
Speaker 1: to the judge.
8:29
Speaker 6: So she is essentially saying that these boys parents are
8:33
Speaker 6: scam artists. She is telling the judge that they have
8:36
Speaker 6: a history of a nefarious behavior, both the father and
8:40
Speaker 6: the mother, and she's arguing that essentially these parents have
8:44
Speaker 6: put these boys up to making these allegations against Tim Wow.
8:49
Speaker 1: Okay, Dave mac Crime Stories, what can you tell us
8:51
Speaker 1: about claims that one of the parents is a disbarred lawyer.
8:56
Speaker 7: That would be the father. Nancy. His name's Ronald Rhodis
8:59
Speaker 7: defends the herny that actually played guilty in twenty seventeen
9:04
Speaker 7: to a federal charge of conspiracy to commit wire fraud.
9:09
Speaker 7: He was accused in a multi million dollar scheme depriding
9:12
Speaker 7: over fifteen hundred homeowners. That's just the dad. Mom's not
9:17
Speaker 7: and it's an either.
9:18
Speaker 1: She ain't smelling like a rose. Tonight, Crime Stories with
9:28
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace to dtor Bethany Marshall joining us renownedd psychoanalyst
9:36
Speaker 1: joining us out of LA, author of deal Breaker. You
9:40
Speaker 1: can see her now on Peacock and you can find
9:43
Speaker 1: her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Dr Bethany, I've had
9:49
Speaker 1: to argue to a jury that a prostitute can be raped,
9:55
Speaker 1: a prostitute can be ag assaulted, a prostitute can be armed, robbed.
10:01
Speaker 1: I have had to argue that a dopeaddict can be murdered,
10:07
Speaker 1: that it's still a murder no matter who.
10:10
Speaker 3: The victim is.
10:13
Speaker 1: All the victims that I represented in inner city Atlanta
10:15
Speaker 1: for a decade, I can promise you they were not
10:19
Speaker 1: nuns and priests and virgins.
10:21
Speaker 3: Can we just put that out there right now? And
10:24
Speaker 3: I would have to tell the.
10:26
Speaker 1: Jury up front, you're gonna hear this, this, and this,
10:30
Speaker 1: but that does not mean a crime didn't happen.
10:35
Speaker 3: But I got to tell you something. These parents, that's sadoozi.
10:41
Speaker 3: You got the Did you hear what Dave mac just said?
10:43
Speaker 3: He's right? Yes. When I hear lawyer disbarred, I'm like,
10:46
Speaker 3: what what?
10:47
Speaker 1: Because Bethany and Melcher, I'm sure you're gonna agree.
10:50
Speaker 3: I don't know if you'll admit it or not. But
10:52
Speaker 3: to get thrown out of the bar.
10:54
Speaker 1: You have to do a lot to get thrown out
10:57
Speaker 1: of the bar.
10:58
Speaker 3: I mean a lot. He's disbarred.
11:03
Speaker 1: I mean and it was a fraud case, which is
11:06
Speaker 1: critical here because when you don't know a horse, Bethany,
11:09
Speaker 1: you look at the track record. Dad thrown out of
11:12
Speaker 1: the bar for fraud and now the device is claiming
11:17
Speaker 1: this is a fraud for money. It doesn't smell good.
11:21
Speaker 1: It doesn't smell good at all. And I don't expect
11:24
Speaker 1: victims to be angels.
11:26
Speaker 3: I never get an angel victim. No, but this is bad.
11:31
Speaker 8: Or you can be a sex predator but also not
11:34
Speaker 8: be guilty of predating on two victims you're accused of,
11:37
Speaker 8: you know, Nancy. Instead of thinking about who's right and
11:40
Speaker 8: who's wrong, Timothy Bustfield or the parents, how about thinking
11:44
Speaker 8: about it as a group of people who acted something
11:47
Speaker 8: out together. So again, this is made up. I don't
11:51
Speaker 8: know Timothy bust Build. But let's say the parents are
11:55
Speaker 8: very angry that the boys are no longer hired for
11:58
Speaker 8: the show. They get wind that Timothy Busfield is potentially predatory,
12:06
Speaker 8: and because of that, it entices them to set him
12:10
Speaker 8: up as having molested the boys. And in that case,
12:14
Speaker 8: you can see that all the adults in this scenario
12:17
Speaker 8: acted something out together. Or if Timothy Busfield did indeed
12:22
Speaker 8: molest these boys, he may have come up with formidable
12:27
Speaker 8: opponents who are actually looking for an opportunity for a shakedown.
12:32
Speaker 8: So I don't think this is going to be an
12:34
Speaker 8: one's an angel and one's a devil. I think this
12:37
Speaker 8: is going to be adults colluding with each other in
12:40
Speaker 8: a very terrible way, with two little boys victimized, being
12:44
Speaker 8: used as ponds by probably all parties involved.
12:49
Speaker 1: But at what juncture. First of all, I'm trying to
12:52
Speaker 1: imagine a mom and a dad not destitute. I mean,
12:57
Speaker 1: one's got a law degree. It can go work, well,
12:59
Speaker 1: we can. He's disbarred, he can be a mediator.
13:02
Speaker 3: Right, Melcher.
13:03
Speaker 1: Even lawyers that have been disbarred and go perform mediations,
13:07
Speaker 1: right and make a good living at it too.
13:11
Speaker 5: Yes, No, yes, And he was making a lot more
13:13
Speaker 5: money off of their kids.
13:16
Speaker 3: Good point.
13:17
Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is, Bethany, I've got to imagine
13:20
Speaker 1: a scenario of two parents, a mother and a father,
13:24
Speaker 1: going along with using their children as pawns and fabricating
13:30
Speaker 1: a sex molestation.
13:31
Speaker 3: Now, this was not a full on rape of a child.
13:37
Speaker 1: This was allegations that children were fondled over their clothes
13:42
Speaker 1: all right in their private parts.
13:46
Speaker 3: Which the reason I bring that up.
13:47
Speaker 1: Molestation is molestation is molestation. But it's harder to prove
13:51
Speaker 1: a fondling because you have no physical evidence.
13:54
Speaker 3: When you have a full on.
13:57
Speaker 1: Attack, you will probably get physical evidence from the child's body.
14:01
Speaker 3: We don't have that here.
14:03
Speaker 1: But I'm trying to imagine a scenario, bethany where a
14:06
Speaker 1: mom and a dad would put their children up to
14:09
Speaker 1: pretend that.
14:10
Speaker 3: They're sex victims. That is dark.
14:14
Speaker 1: That is able because the rest of their lives are
14:17
Speaker 1: going to remember, Hey, my mom and dad, they told
14:21
Speaker 1: me to say this so we could get some money.
14:23
Speaker 8: I mean, Nancy, I have a lot of adults in
14:25
Speaker 8: my practice who were once child actors, and a good
14:29
Speaker 8: number of them were used as ponds by their parents
14:32
Speaker 8: and their money was taken. You know, Nancy, if the
14:35
Speaker 8: parents are already monetizing their children in one way as actors,
14:41
Speaker 8: it would be interesting to know if they're willing to
14:43
Speaker 8: cross that line and monetize their children in other ways.
14:47
Speaker 8: Parents use their children all the time. We call it exploitation,
14:51
Speaker 8: interpersonal offending, and yes, it is very very dark. They
14:56
Speaker 8: could not accept the reality that their boys had aged out.
14:59
Speaker 8: They wouldn't not have this role forever. But then if
15:04
Speaker 8: you get a predator on the set who has poor boundaries.
15:07
Speaker 8: I don't know if Timothy Bussfield is, of course, but
15:10
Speaker 8: you have a predator, then you have yet another dark
15:14
Speaker 8: scenario where you have a predator whose parents was eventually
15:18
Speaker 8: asleep at the wheel.
15:19
Speaker 1: Bethany, Bethany, before I lose this thought, and I'm going
15:23
Speaker 1: to go back in the courtroom and I'm going.
15:25
Speaker 3: To play audio of the boys.
15:27
Speaker 1: Okay, But when you said no boundaries, there is evidence
15:32
Speaker 1: from several witnesses that state that Busfield would come on
15:35
Speaker 1: the set and he would hug the boys and actually
15:37
Speaker 1: would like PLoP a kiss on their head. And that's
15:41
Speaker 1: against protocol.
15:42
Speaker 3: And I know that because.
15:44
Speaker 1: I had to train to go on these scout campouts
15:48
Speaker 1: with the children and.
15:50
Speaker 3: You're not supposed to touch the children ever.
15:52
Speaker 1: And I was out in the middle of nowhere camping
15:55
Speaker 1: and a little like ten year old boy came walking
15:57
Speaker 1: down by himself.
15:58
Speaker 3: Just crying and nodding and will I'm like, what is wrong, baby?
16:04
Speaker 3: Come here? And I hugged him.
16:07
Speaker 1: Another scout Mastercumount went just stop right now, I'm like,
16:12
Speaker 1: and I unhugged and then remember, you're not supposed touch
16:15
Speaker 1: no matter what. The little boy was upset, it was
16:17
Speaker 1: his first night and he wanted to go home.
16:20
Speaker 3: That's what happened.
16:21
Speaker 1: But you know, when I'm thinking about Busfield walking on
16:25
Speaker 1: the set and kissing a kid on the face, like
16:27
Speaker 1: I think, on the forehead. So I don't know how
16:32
Speaker 1: that will play into this when you're talking about boundaries.
16:35
Speaker 3: Was that part of a wicked scheme?
16:38
Speaker 1: Was it just a tiny taste of further exploitation or
16:42
Speaker 1: is it a natural response to.
16:44
Speaker 3: Seeing a child you've been working with for a year.
16:47
Speaker 1: But when you just imagine how parents could use their
16:50
Speaker 1: children in some kind of money scheme.
16:54
Speaker 8: Well, you know, when you have wealth, power, privilege, you
16:57
Speaker 8: should know the rules. Timothy Bustfield has been on so
17:00
Speaker 8: many sets, as you pointed out, so by now he's
17:04
Speaker 8: well acquainted with the fact that he could potentially be
17:06
Speaker 8: a target right for people who are disgruntled or angry,
17:10
Speaker 8: so he knows to watch his p's and q's. There
17:12
Speaker 8: was one interview with a makeup artist who said that
17:15
Speaker 8: everybody kind of watched out for Timothy Bussfield because he
17:18
Speaker 8: had poor boundaries, and she used the word creep. So
17:23
Speaker 8: I find that interesting that somebody on the else on
17:25
Speaker 8: the set said.
17:26
Speaker 1: That Bethany, Bethany, Bethany Bethany, you just raise the hair
17:31
Speaker 1: on the back of my neck. My intent went because
17:34
Speaker 1: in every case that I, well, not every but almost
17:38
Speaker 1: every rape or molestation case that I prosecuted, universally somewhere
17:44
Speaker 1: in the defendants past. And when I said he was
17:46
Speaker 1: always so creepy, he was always a weirdo, he was
17:49
Speaker 1: always a perf whatever adjective they would put in right there.
17:54
Speaker 1: Just hearing somebody say that, it's like a sixth sense. Okay, Bethany,
18:00
Speaker 1: are you sitting down?
18:01
Speaker 3: You look like you're sitting.
18:02
Speaker 1: Okay, you may need to lay down. I'm going to
18:04
Speaker 1: play something for you. Guys, embrace yourself. The defense is
18:07
Speaker 1: having a field day with this audio of the little
18:11
Speaker 1: boys when they were little boys.
18:14
Speaker 3: Listen, you know what's right and wrong?
18:16
Speaker 7: Right?
18:17
Speaker 6: Yeah?
18:17
Speaker 9: You know, no when could touch your private areas?
18:20
Speaker 8: Yeah, but buddy didn't touch doesn't touch.
18:23
Speaker 9: Your private parts? Okay, yeah, and you know what's right
18:28
Speaker 9: and wrong, right, you know where people can't touch, where
18:32
Speaker 9: people can't be Yeah, you know that, right? Does Tim
18:35
Speaker 9: ever do that?
18:37
Speaker 8: No, he's never touched me.
18:39
Speaker 9: Never touched you, Yeah, in the in like you know,
18:47
Speaker 9: your private areas, right, never did that?
18:49
Speaker 8: Never?
18:51
Speaker 4: Okay.
18:52
Speaker 1: You just heard audio police audio that we got from
18:58
Speaker 1: our friends at TMZ interviewing the two twin boys we're
19:03
Speaker 1: not saying their names. We're referring to them as the
19:06
Speaker 1: victory L Love and s Sally ll Love, VL and SL.
19:13
Speaker 1: That is the original police interview with accusers, and it
19:18
Speaker 1: sounds like that is a forensic interviewer that establishes with
19:23
Speaker 1: the child they understand right from wrong and not to
19:26
Speaker 1: tell stories. Okay, that's just part of the interview where
19:30
Speaker 1: both boys deny anything happened.
19:34
Speaker 4: Emmy Award winner Timothy Busfield joins cast as an actor
19:37
Speaker 4: and director who tells boys to call him Uncle Tim.
19:40
Speaker 4: Inappropriate action happens on multiple occasions, and parents of the
19:43
Speaker 4: boys say Busfield masks the inappropriate touching as play. One
19:48
Speaker 4: boy says he was touched on his intimate parts over
19:50
Speaker 4: his clothing. The boys are referred to as SL and VL.
19:53
Speaker 4: The parents say SL wakes up scared from nightmares about
19:57
Speaker 4: Busfield touching him and is diagnosed PTSD.
20:00
Speaker 2: Busfield and his wife, actress Melissa Gilbert, live a quiet,
20:03
Speaker 2: secluded life in their Cat Skills mountainside home until accusations
20:08
Speaker 2: pull them into public scrutiny.
20:10
Speaker 1: Even that quiet, secluded life in the cat Skills did
20:14
Speaker 1: not protect Timothy Busfield from a battering ram just crashing
20:19
Speaker 1: through his door when he did not come to the door.
20:22
Speaker 3: He has now been in court. Take a look at
20:26
Speaker 3: this video.
20:27
Speaker 1: This is what went down and their cat skills refuge.
20:31
Speaker 1: Take a look everybody in full tac gear. This is
20:35
Speaker 1: from our friends at Daily Mail. And in the end,
20:38
Speaker 1: Timothy Busfield is in court now another field day, another
20:44
Speaker 1: touchdown for the defense. It's when they obtained an audio
20:50
Speaker 1: recording from the time these claims were first brought they
20:55
Speaker 1: were originally dismissed. I want you to hear again the
20:59
Speaker 1: police recording. Listen, we're we've transcribed it for you so
21:03
Speaker 1: you can see and hear exactly what the boys said
21:07
Speaker 1: at the time.
21:08
Speaker 4: You know what's right and wrong, right, Yeah?
21:10
Speaker 9: You know no one could touch your private areas. Yeah.
21:14
Speaker 10: Well but buddy didn't touch you, doesn't touch.
21:16
Speaker 9: Your private parts, okay, yeah, And you know what's right
21:21
Speaker 9: and wrong, right. You know where people can't touch, where
21:25
Speaker 9: people can be Yeah, you know that, right. Does Tim
21:28
Speaker 9: ever do that?
21:30
Speaker 10: No, he's never touched me.
21:32
Speaker 9: Never touched you. Yeah, in the in like you know,
21:40
Speaker 9: your private areas, right, never did that?
21:42
Speaker 1: Never?
21:44
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, that's bad for the state.
21:49
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you and I'm prone to believe the victims,
21:53
Speaker 1: but that is going to be extremely damaging on cross examination.
21:57
Speaker 1: If these boys do take the stand that they're longer boys,
22:00
Speaker 1: that's my friends at TAMC.
22:02
Speaker 3: So how did this whole thing happen? Now?
22:05
Speaker 2: Years later, after Busfield joins the show as director, the
22:08
Speaker 2: parents discover there have been allegations against Busfield of sexual
22:11
Speaker 2: assault against women and miners. The mother asks the boys
22:14
Speaker 2: if anyone has ever touched them in a manner that
22:16
Speaker 2: made them feel uncomfortable. The children reply, you mean, like
22:19
Speaker 2: Uncle Tim. Hearing this, the parents contact a law firm
22:22
Speaker 2: that recommends taking the children to unmh.
22:26
Speaker 1: Okay, right there, Doctor Bethany Marshall, It's hard to ask
22:33
Speaker 1: your children, but I found a way to ask the
22:37
Speaker 1: children when they were little, starting as young as two
22:40
Speaker 1: and three, if anybody had ever touched their private parts ever,
22:43
Speaker 1: front end or back end. And I had learned a
22:48
Speaker 1: lot from learning about interviewing children forensically.
22:54
Speaker 3: Which I had to do as a prosecutor.
22:57
Speaker 1: And there's a problem here because if the twins, either
23:03
Speaker 1: one of them, had ever said yeah, I would have
23:06
Speaker 1: immediately called the hospital and the police. My first thought
23:11
Speaker 1: would not be to call a lawyer.
23:13
Speaker 3: What do you think that is right?
23:15
Speaker 8: Here's what I think it could be that the little
23:18
Speaker 8: boy who's having PTSD and dreams about being touched by
23:23
Speaker 8: Uncle Tim, actually, in fact, his parents are coaching him
23:28
Speaker 8: and talking to him about sex and what it's like
23:30
Speaker 8: when somebody touches your private parts, and that they are
23:33
Speaker 8: so excited over the prospect of a shakedown, that this
23:39
Speaker 8: is the biggest topic in the household at this point,
23:42
Speaker 8: and that it's that conversation that's actually traumatizing this little boy.
23:47
Speaker 8: I had a family who brought a sixteen year old
23:50
Speaker 8: to me who had been raped by her best male friend,
23:53
Speaker 8: who was also sixteen. But they they would invade the
23:58
Speaker 8: session excitedly talking about the nature of the rape, and
24:03
Speaker 8: I became aware that actually they were setting up the
24:07
Speaker 8: other family by continually planting stories in the sixteen year
24:12
Speaker 8: old's head. She wasn't traumatized by whatever happened with the
24:18
Speaker 8: other sixteen year old. It's her parents who were traumatizing
24:21
Speaker 8: her because they just saw a big paycheck at the
24:24
Speaker 8: end of the day. Now, I don't know for sure
24:26
Speaker 8: if that's what's happening here, but I would certainly consider
24:29
Speaker 8: that as a possibility.
24:31
Speaker 1: The parents have not been accused of any fraud in
24:34
Speaker 1: this case at all. For all we know, these claims
24:39
Speaker 1: could be true, and the parents are doing what they
24:43
Speaker 1: can for their children.
24:46
Speaker 3: That said, they call lawyer and this happens.
24:50
Speaker 4: Next examining the children, hospital staff advised the parents it
24:54
Speaker 4: appears their children were groomed and in reference to a
24:57
Speaker 4: CART exam, an interview of a child by a specialized
25:01
Speaker 4: forensic interviewer as part of a child Abuse Response Team
25:04
Speaker 4: KRT protocol. In interviews with both boys, neither child discloses
25:08
Speaker 4: any sexual contact, but both say Uncle Tim would tickle
25:12
Speaker 4: them on the stomach and legs and they didn't like it.
25:15
Speaker 3: Oh, my stars, Chris Melcher, I guess you're.
25:19
Speaker 1: Just dancing up and down the halls with glee right now,
25:22
Speaker 1: because here they are in another interview at the hospital
25:26
Speaker 1: and they're doing a full on cart a CART which
25:31
Speaker 1: is a specialized exam you do with potential child abuse victims.
25:37
Speaker 1: Both times, neither child discloses sex contact. They do say quote,
25:41
Speaker 1: Uncle Tim would tickle them on the stomach and legs
25:44
Speaker 1: and they didn't like it. Okay, boom bum but um
25:50
Speaker 1: boom but bum bum bum boom.
25:52
Speaker 3: It's lining up for the state. It pays me to
25:56
Speaker 3: say it. But here is another blow to potential victims.
25:59
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I
26:02
Speaker 1: know here's another point of cross exam. I mean, I'm
26:05
Speaker 1: just looking at it analytically, Melcher, because if I'm preparing
26:10
Speaker 1: these boys for direct I got to prepare them for
26:12
Speaker 1: the fact that this hospital staff is going to come.
26:15
Speaker 3: In and say he said it didn't happen. You got
26:19
Speaker 3: to be ready for that.
26:20
Speaker 1: If you believe the boys or don't believe the boys,
26:22
Speaker 1: there's another nail in the coffin.
26:25
Speaker 5: Absolutely all this evidence points towards his innocence, and it's exculpatory.
26:30
Speaker 5: There's there's again, it's it's it's maddening to think that
26:34
Speaker 5: the prosecutor filed this case to begin with, as you
26:37
Speaker 5: know they have they have a.
26:39
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, Melcher, Wait a minute.
26:40
Speaker 1: What if the prosecutor assume has spoken to the boys,
26:44
Speaker 1: it believes the boys. So what you don't bring a
26:48
Speaker 1: case just because somebody like Chris Melcher says, I can't
26:50
Speaker 1: believe they did that. If you believe the victim, then
26:53
Speaker 1: put the victim up on the stand and give it all.
26:56
Speaker 3: You got to go in guns and blazon man.
26:59
Speaker 5: No, it's not about believing anyone. It's whether you can
27:02
Speaker 5: secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. That's an ethical
27:06
Speaker 5: obligation of the prosecutor that I don't think is being
27:08
Speaker 5: honored here based on this evidence. Because mal sure, if
27:12
Speaker 5: you ask a child, a young child, over and over again,
27:15
Speaker 5: in highly suggestive interviews, potentially by their parents, have you
27:20
Speaker 5: been abused? Eventually you will get the answer that you're
27:23
Speaker 5: looking for.
27:24
Speaker 3: And it's well, they haven't gotten it yet.
27:27
Speaker 1: Well, I know the prosecution hasn't spoken to the child
27:31
Speaker 1: victims now adults, young adults, and they convinced the prosecution
27:36
Speaker 1: has happened, and the prosecution believes them and believes that
27:39
Speaker 1: they will carry the day regarding credibility, and they will
27:42
Speaker 1: win the case. I mean, what you say is reasonably
27:45
Speaker 1: expect a conviction. They may reasonably expect a conviction based
27:50
Speaker 1: on the interviews of the alleged victims.
27:52
Speaker 3: You don't know that.
27:53
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is you got to prep them for
27:56
Speaker 1: what's going to happen on cross and it ain't pretty
28:00
Speaker 1: what happens. Then they go to the hospital, they do
28:02
Speaker 1: the cart interview, hospital staff says, all he did was
28:06
Speaker 1: tickle them, all right, how does that turn into this?
28:11
Speaker 3: Listen.
28:12
Speaker 11: Police began investigating Busfield in November twenty twenty four, when
28:15
Speaker 11: an investigator responds to a call from a doctor at
28:18
Speaker 11: University New Mexico Hospital calling for investigation. The parents take
28:23
Speaker 11: their boys to the hospital and the mother contacts Child
28:25
Speaker 11: Protective Services, accusing Busfield of abusing the children. One of
28:29
Speaker 11: the boys tells police Busfield first touched him inappropriately when
28:33
Speaker 11: he was just seven, and again when he was eight.
28:36
Speaker 1: So Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter the US Sun on
28:40
Speaker 1: the case from the very beginning. Jessica, So at this juncture,
28:45
Speaker 1: when a police officer speaks to the boys, they do
28:49
Speaker 1: say at least one of them says, Timothy Busfield did
28:54
Speaker 1: touch them either their front end or their back end. Right.
28:58
Speaker 6: So there was actually a year between me and the
29:00
Speaker 6: kids going being brought into the hospital and the hospital
29:03
Speaker 6: reporting to police that they had believed that the child
29:06
Speaker 6: the children were being groomed by Timothy, And then a
29:08
Speaker 6: year later they said he had just tickled us, but
29:11
Speaker 6: he didn't touch our privates at that point, and so
29:13
Speaker 6: the police declined to prosecute anything on that, and so
29:17
Speaker 6: a full year later, now we're talking October of twenty
29:20
Speaker 6: twenty five, the boys, one of the boys reported to
29:23
Speaker 6: his counselor at the time allegedly that Timothy had touched
29:27
Speaker 6: him in the front on his privates and in the
29:29
Speaker 6: background his privates, and so the counselor, who's a mandated reporter,
29:33
Speaker 6: called the cops, and that's how the cops came to
29:36
Speaker 6: this point where we're at, where Timothy has been arrested
29:39
Speaker 6: because there was an allegation of actual touching maid. Now,
29:43
Speaker 6: even though it's a full year later, that's yeah, that is.
29:47
Speaker 6: The prosecution argues that basically, you know, it takes time
29:51
Speaker 6: for kids to come forward with allegations like this, and
29:54
Speaker 6: that they were intimidated by Timothy, and they were intimidated
29:58
Speaker 6: by you know, the police and the art conversations with
30:01
Speaker 6: police where they denied any kind of touching like this.
30:03
Speaker 4: Detectives find the children didn't say anything to anyone on
30:06
Speaker 4: the set even though they didn't like it, because Busfield
30:09
Speaker 4: was the director and the children are afraid of making
30:11
Speaker 4: the director angry or getting in trouble. The investigation reveals,
30:15
Speaker 4: even though Busfield should not have been alone with the children.
30:18
Speaker 4: Measures preventing such one on one contact were ignored, and
30:22
Speaker 4: there were times when Buzzfield could have been alone with
30:24
Speaker 4: the children, in particular SL on the set.
30:27
Speaker 2: Interviews with personnel on the show reveal how the children
30:30
Speaker 2: changed after Busfield joined the show. The boys were equally
30:33
Speaker 2: happy to be in front of the cameras, but after
30:35
Speaker 2: Busfield joined the show, SL became withdrawn, did not want
30:39
Speaker 2: to be on set, and VL ended up being used
30:42
Speaker 2: more than SL. The investigation determines Busfield did not have
30:45
Speaker 2: the opportunity to be alone with the boys, particularly sl Okay.
30:50
Speaker 1: To doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst, Doctor Bethany, that means
30:53
Speaker 1: something one of the boys became withdrawn and didn't want
30:58
Speaker 1: to go on the set anymore. There are classic textbook
31:01
Speaker 1: symptoms of molestation you look for, such as does a
31:04
Speaker 1: child start wetting the bed? Do their grades drop? Do
31:07
Speaker 1: they become quiet withdrawn? Sometimes they don't want to eat.
31:15
Speaker 1: There are many classic symptoms of child molestation.
31:20
Speaker 3: Yes, if you know what to look for.
31:23
Speaker 1: Not wanting to go to the set anymore when they
31:24
Speaker 1: previously loved going to the set.
31:26
Speaker 3: That's an indicator.
31:28
Speaker 1: It's not enough to build a case, and I can
31:29
Speaker 1: tell you that right now, but it is an indicator.
31:32
Speaker 8: Well, the reason that's an indicator, Nancy, is that avoidance
31:37
Speaker 8: is a primary symptom of trauma. So when little boys
31:41
Speaker 8: who love to be in front of the camera all
31:43
Speaker 8: of a sudden don't want to go to set, that's
31:46
Speaker 8: something you have to pay attention to, you know, Nancy.
31:48
Speaker 8: Some predators, sex predators or pedophiles are what we call
31:53
Speaker 8: interpersonal offenders. That means they don't go as far as
31:58
Speaker 8: fondling the child's gen tolls or groping or molesting, but
32:03
Speaker 8: they exploit the child emotionally. They have, as I said earlier,
32:08
Speaker 8: poor boundaries, and they make the child feel like the
32:12
Speaker 8: child is under their control, and that could be that
32:15
Speaker 8: could be traumatic as well.
32:17
Speaker 3: Okay, to the control room.
32:19
Speaker 1: You keep showing shots, and Melissa Gilbert, I know what
32:22
Speaker 1: you're doing.
32:24
Speaker 3: She's married to Busfield, and I know what you're doing.
32:29
Speaker 3: Everyone that works on crime stories knows that.
32:32
Speaker 1: As my cases became more and more complex and more
32:35
Speaker 1: and more upsetting. When I specialized in almost universally homicide, rape,
32:43
Speaker 1: child molestation, I would watch the Little House in the prairie,
32:47
Speaker 1: little house on the prairie in the morning, to brace.
32:49
Speaker 3: Myself to go to court.
32:51
Speaker 1: And finally in the end, when it was Serial Killers,
32:53
Speaker 1: Serial Rapist, Serial Child Molisters, I had to watch two
32:56
Speaker 1: episodes every morning before I could go to work.
33:00
Speaker 3: That said, I'm attached to a little house on the prairie.
33:05
Speaker 1: So this case is not about Melissa Gilbert, even if
33:08
Speaker 1: you want to make it about Melissa Gilbert.
33:10
Speaker 3: And yes, she was in court, front row, crying, crying,
33:16
Speaker 3: and while her.
33:17
Speaker 1: Husband was in custody for some reason, she gives a
33:24
Speaker 1: tour of her fridge.
33:27
Speaker 8: At modern prairie, we always say life is too short
33:30
Speaker 8: to eat dessert first, take your pick.
33:39
Speaker 3: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
33:45
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall neither here nor there when it comes
33:48
Speaker 1: into the case in chief whether this is going to
33:50
Speaker 1: actually be a case, But why is she giving a
33:53
Speaker 1: tour of her fridge while her husband is being charged
33:56
Speaker 1: with yold lat's station multiple counts.
33:58
Speaker 8: She may be trying to normal their household, Nancy. She
34:01
Speaker 8: may be trying to indicate that she's a nurturing person,
34:06
Speaker 8: that she believes her husband that this is a warm
34:08
Speaker 8: and cozy home. It's not a place where a sex
34:11
Speaker 8: predator lives. But you know, Nancy, something I always tell
34:14
Speaker 8: my patients when they're about to marry somebody where this
34:18
Speaker 8: questionable alliance. I say, when you marry a person, you
34:21
Speaker 8: marry their crimes. Okay, So that's just wisdom I would
34:26
Speaker 8: impart to everybody. Also, the letter that she wrote to
34:30
Speaker 8: the court is very loving. She calls her husband a sweet,
34:35
Speaker 8: sweet husband. But I would say that idealization is necessary
34:40
Speaker 8: for a good marriage. You have to idealize your partner
34:42
Speaker 8: a little bit, and when the idealization is gone, the
34:45
Speaker 8: love is gone. So if he did commit these crimes,
34:49
Speaker 8: that idealization is going to come crashing down and we're
34:53
Speaker 8: going to see Okay, we're not going to see a
34:55
Speaker 8: whole refrigerator anymore.
34:57
Speaker 1: I don't care if they have fresh cut flow in
35:00
Speaker 1: a vase. I don't care if there's real butter in
35:05
Speaker 1: the fridge, because I have had chime molesters that range from.
35:10
Speaker 3: Literally the creepy dude in the raincoat to pastors. So
35:17
Speaker 3: appearances mean nothing to me.
35:20
Speaker 1: Maybe it means something to this judge because he let
35:22
Speaker 1: busfill or release on recognizants. Now, this is something that
35:28
Speaker 1: means something to me a guy off of the set
35:33
Speaker 1: where the children worked.
35:35
Speaker 3: Listen to this guy.
35:36
Speaker 10: At any given time, if the child was on set,
35:40
Speaker 10: there was a minimum of ten people there on the
35:42
Speaker 10: set with them. It's just how it works. There's two cameras,
35:45
Speaker 10: two camera oppers, two focus ploorers, two boom guys, a
35:49
Speaker 10: prop person, a hair and makeup person, the studio person
35:52
Speaker 10: would usually be there, the first assistant director, two dolly grips.
35:57
Speaker 10: And that's for every take, for every shot, always, especially
36:01
Speaker 10: with the children, because we had such limited amount of
36:03
Speaker 10: time with the children.
36:04
Speaker 1: That from our friends at TMZ welcome back. We have
36:08
Speaker 1: heard a lot about what is wrong with the two
36:11
Speaker 1: little boys now grown and their testimony, their claims of
36:15
Speaker 1: being abust victims. We've heard a lot about that, But
36:19
Speaker 1: what about other alleged victims of Busfields.
36:24
Speaker 3: It cannot be ignored. Listen.
36:27
Speaker 11: Years ago, Sacramento, California, Busfield accused of abuse against a
36:31
Speaker 11: sixteen year old auditioning for Busfield at Sacramento's B Street Theater.
36:35
Speaker 11: The teen reports Busfield kissed her, put his hands down
36:38
Speaker 11: her pants, and touched her privates. Busfield begged the family
36:42
Speaker 11: not to report to law enforcement if he received therapy,
36:45
Speaker 11: and the father, who was a therapist himself, thought at
36:48
Speaker 11: the time that this was the best thing to do.
36:50
Speaker 11: The father now says the incident changed the trajectory of
36:53
Speaker 11: his daughter's life and he regrets not having gone to
36:56
Speaker 11: the police at the time.
36:58
Speaker 1: Out to Dave Mac, that was a sixteen year old girl.
37:05
Speaker 1: What else is lurking in Busville's background, you.
37:10
Speaker 7: Know, Nancy, We've got the first one we actually know
37:13
Speaker 7: about was from the set of the movie Little Big League,
37:17
Speaker 7: where a seventeen year old accused him a bus Field
37:22
Speaker 7: of taking her back to his trailer, giving her alcohol
37:26
Speaker 7: and then trying to kiss her and eventually groped her
37:31
Speaker 7: and tried to rape her in the trailer just off
37:33
Speaker 7: the set. That actually came front. They ended up settling
37:38
Speaker 7: it out of court. And that was just like a taste.
37:42
Speaker 7: She was seventeen. And when you go to the Sacramento
37:45
Speaker 7: event again, a girl about the same age, and in
37:49
Speaker 7: that instance they decided they bet stop.
37:51
Speaker 1: Right there, Dave Mac, let's not call alleged victims.
37:57
Speaker 3: Event don't say that.
38:01
Speaker 1: Okay, now, you told me the one about the sixteen
38:04
Speaker 1: year old girl on Little Big Field.
38:07
Speaker 7: Okay, go ahead, Next we've got the one in ninety four,
38:11
Speaker 7: and then we've got another one in twenty twelve. In
38:14
Speaker 7: that particular case, a woman said that she went on
38:18
Speaker 7: a date with Buzzfield and while in the theater he
38:22
Speaker 7: groped her and assaulted her. That actually went to the police, Nancy.
38:26
Speaker 7: They sat down and interviewed everything and decided they didn't
38:29
Speaker 7: have enough evidence to move forward from the attack in
38:33
Speaker 7: the dark in theater. But that was in twenty twelve.
38:36
Speaker 3: Now, wait a minute.
38:37
Speaker 1: The nineteen ninety six case involving allegations of a child
38:42
Speaker 1: sex assault, he paid one hundred and fifty thousand dollars
38:47
Speaker 1: to settle it. That's a lot of money, Okay, So
38:53
Speaker 1: Chris Melcher, that gives credence to the current case. We
38:58
Speaker 1: have a string prior allegations, and on at least one
39:03
Speaker 1: of those, he settled for one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
39:07
Speaker 5: Well, I don't think that's ever going to see the
39:10
Speaker 5: light of day in any criminal case, because that's would
39:12
Speaker 5: be character.
39:14
Speaker 3: That that's not character evidence. He entered a settlement to
39:18
Speaker 3: make the case go away. I don't even know what
39:20
Speaker 3: you're saying. We're not.
39:24
Speaker 5: It's character evidence because they would.
39:26
Speaker 3: Be trying to transaction.
39:28
Speaker 5: That's what it is, Yeah, to try to establish that
39:32
Speaker 5: he acted in conformity with that alleged a prior incident,
39:35
Speaker 5: with this prior this current incident. No way that's getting
39:38
Speaker 5: in c. Harvey Weinstein case where that was reversed, where
39:43
Speaker 5: they had uncharged.
39:44
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what I can say. You know what
39:47
Speaker 1: I am speaking from a place of investigation. I'm trying
39:51
Speaker 1: to find out what really happened. So one hundred and
39:55
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars settlement on a prior and to Dave Matt,
40:02
Speaker 1: can I talk to you about Jim Wicka, a former
40:06
Speaker 1: lawyer who represented a seventeen year old girl who accused
40:10
Speaker 1: Bussfield of sex harassment in ninety four. What can you
40:14
Speaker 1: tell me about a judge ordering Busfield to pay up to.
40:21
Speaker 3: Wicka?
40:23
Speaker 7: Well, you know, Wicka actually was the attorney in that case,
40:27
Speaker 7: the ninety four case with the woman from Little Big
40:31
Speaker 7: League and Timothy. Buzzfield counter sued his WICCA and the
40:38
Speaker 7: law firm, saying they damaged him and damaged his character.
40:43
Speaker 7: So he filed one hundred and fifty thousand dollars lawsuit
40:46
Speaker 7: against Wicca and his partners, and the judge was just
40:49
Speaker 7: beside himself and this is ridiculous and tossed everything and
40:54
Speaker 7: it went back to Timothy Busfield having to pay for
40:58
Speaker 7: the attorney's fees and everything associated with that case with
41:01
Speaker 7: that woman, that young lady who actually you know, was
41:04
Speaker 7: the actual victim in this case.
41:07
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's where the figure one hundred and fifty
41:09
Speaker 1: thousand dollars comes from.
41:11
Speaker 3: As after the lawyer sued and for defamation to Dave.
41:15
Speaker 1: Mac how many alleged priors are there against Bussfeld?
41:21
Speaker 7: Eight? I believe documented, Nancy, I've seen that number. I
41:24
Speaker 7: haven't seen every one of those, just a lot of
41:28
Speaker 7: the ones that we've talked about.
41:29
Speaker 1: And Jessica Finn, what can you tell me about Busfield
41:33
Speaker 1: passing a polygraph a lie detector? Was it a private
41:38
Speaker 1: le detector set up by his lawyers or is it
41:40
Speaker 1: a police light detector test?
41:42
Speaker 6: So Timothy took a private light detector test in a
41:45
Speaker 6: really unusual move, while there was a warrned out for
41:48
Speaker 6: his arrest, and as he was driving two thousand miles
41:50
Speaker 6: from upstate New York to New Mexico to finally turn
41:54
Speaker 6: himself in, which again took five full days along the way,
41:58
Speaker 6: he decided he was going to a lied detective test
42:01
Speaker 6: about this to I guess help exonerate him or try
42:04
Speaker 6: and keep him out of jail. And he was of
42:07
Speaker 6: course held for several days behind bars until the detention
42:10
Speaker 6: hearing that happened earlier this week. But he did take
42:13
Speaker 6: a lie detective test that supposedly tells, you know, is
42:17
Speaker 6: supposed to prove that he did not molest this little boy.
42:21
Speaker 3: Allegedly, the judge seemingly agrees with the defense.
42:27
Speaker 1: He releases Muzzfield are released on own recognisance.
42:33
Speaker 3: What is true? What is just? In this case?
42:38
Speaker 1: You just heard this judge speaking from the bench, and
42:41
Speaker 1: our friends at TMZ recorded that, thank you, Harvey Levin.
42:46
Speaker 1: The search for justice goes on. Are the boys telling
42:50
Speaker 1: the truth? What about the other alleged victims? What happened
42:53
Speaker 1: to their cases? And what if anything, does that have
42:56
Speaker 1: to do with the here and now. If you know
42:59
Speaker 1: or think you know anything regarding this case, please call
43:03
Speaker 1: Albuquerque PD. Five zero five eight four three seven eight
43:08
Speaker 1: six seven five zero five eight four three seven eight
43:13
Speaker 1: six seven. We remember an American hero, Assistant Chief Johnny Patterson, Verona,
43:20
Speaker 1: p D. Mississippi, killed in the line of duty after
43:23
Speaker 1: twenty eight years, leaving behind a distraught and grieving wife
43:28
Speaker 1: and two sons. American Hero Assistant Chief Johnny Patterson Nancy
43:35
Speaker 1: Gray signing off goodbye friend,