Latest / Boundary Corner Podcast / ECON 425: Resource Allocation in the Modern Recruiting Age

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ECON 425: Resource Allocation in the Modern Recruiting Age · Boundary Corner Podcast

0:52
Welcome back to the boundary Corner podcast.
0:56
My name is Curtis Wilson. I'm Brian seagull.
0:59
How's it going buddy? How's everybody doing?
1:01
Good man. How are you man?
1:05
I can't complain to still been some of working out the back of
1:07
the patio most of the weeks my back's not feeling the greatest
1:11
but it's it is what it is at this point.
1:13
Got to get it done mr. Bob Vila over here Current he is
1:19
in putting some additional patio areas and now you're going with
1:23
the purrgil. Oh, is that what you said in the
1:25
text? There are, yes, yes, I got a
1:27
Pergola. Put in over the fire pit.
1:30
I got covering over where I've got all my my smokers and grills
1:36
and stuff. And then we've got another,
1:39
another area that I'm digging out and putting some some, some
1:43
people down and got a Little Cantilever Umbrella.
1:49
We got going over that section, so it's going to be going to be
1:52
pretty hooked up area back there, trying to do, more
1:55
outdoor entertaining and just in general staying outside more.
1:59
So taking advantage of this time that I've got here, where I can
2:03
roll right from from work into doing yard work, which I
2:06
normally I've got about a 45 minute to an hour Excursion from
2:12
from work to home. So just try to take advantage of
2:14
that time. Man, how's things going your
2:16
way? I'm good.
2:17
I'm thinking potentially in July when it gets even deader than
2:21
right now, maybe Brian's backyard secrets to doing it
2:26
yourself, you know? Yeah, yeah.
2:30
Doing well man, as you as I told you a couple weeks ago, I can't
2:34
remember. I mentioned it on the Pod but we
2:36
got a new fence installed in the backyard, which has been great
2:38
for the dog. Been great for the boys.
2:41
Yeah, slowly rearranging and he I don't know.
2:46
You posted some Stuff on Facebook with your patio.
2:49
Didn't you a couple things? Yeah couple of things out there.
2:52
Yeah. Huh.
2:53
So my wife couple days ago kind of system, I wonder if we can
2:58
like dig out a little place around here and put some Stones
3:00
baby around a star neighbor, who's a landscape designer and
3:04
like have him look at it. I'm like, wait a second.
3:06
I'm starting to put two and two together.
3:08
Did Brian's post? Come across her like Ryan's
3:11
doing but we're doing great man. Just Burgers tonight tried to
3:18
see the flyover but it was a little too far south west for
3:23
us. We can we heard it like a second
3:26
and my wife's like that's it, I think and we didn't see it but
3:29
saw some videos, some folks of the neighborhood went down to
3:32
st. Mary's hospital and saw it.
3:34
That was pretty cool. Okay.
3:35
Yeah, my father-in-law had text me about it earlier and he's
3:39
like, yeah, you got to check this out, like, I will try to
3:41
but it just, I don't think, you know, being over here, east side
3:45
of Richmond. It just wasn't quite Quite
3:48
enough for us but next time next time.
3:51
Yeah things aren't as crazy. We can you know get in the car
3:55
and drive somewhere and see it. Pretty cool event.
3:58
Again seeing the video was pretty cool too man.
4:00
Yeah. All right folks we got a few
4:02
things we're going to go over today you know but we got to
4:06
start and fortunately with the bad news you know it happened
4:12
about I guess was a week ago now, maybe a little less than a
4:15
week ago just under a week ago. Yeah.
4:17
The other Matrix Davis, D commits from Virginia Tech.
4:24
You know, number one, duel threat in the country are
4:27
hydrated, recruited the point in time, little legitimate study
4:32
the video, shows it all this highlights.
4:37
And, you know, the tea leaves kind of were there a little bit
4:41
beforehand with the removal of the stuff on his Twitter
4:46
account, which, you know, Some people were like, screaming
4:49
alarm Bells, like that. And some people like me and you
4:51
were kind of more like, he's 17 year old kid.
4:55
Yeah. 17. There were no explanation for
4:59
but, you know, it definitely hurts now he, you know, Brian
5:03
you read it as I did, he did say, you know, he he still plans
5:07
on, you know, taking his official at the Penn State game,
5:12
likely coming down, maybe even a few times more on unofficial
5:15
visits. So we're not out of the running.
5:17
A anytime there's a d commit like this, it just it hurts your
5:20
soul because you see what he does, you know what we do?
5:25
And it's just like, it's like, it's the glove.
5:27
It's like, there would be no, sort of learning curve.
5:32
Yeah, and that's the big thing. I think he could really Thrive
5:35
under what went and cornelison are trying to do with the
5:39
offense. So, it hurts from that
5:41
perspective, the bigger perspective to me is that it
5:44
hurts us perception-wise. I was at a point in time where
5:49
we're trying to shape group perception in a more positive
5:54
light and it deals with another another one of those blows to,
6:00
you know, credibility from a recruiting perspective and
6:03
things like that. So I think in that perspective,
6:05
it hurts us more. I mean, I think on the field, I
6:08
mean, he might have ended up after after a redshirt year
6:12
taking over the starting role but in terms of us having
6:15
quarterbacks ready to play, We're kind of set through 23
6:20
unless he was going to be stepping up sooner.
6:24
So, you know, there's not an immediate void created by his
6:30
deep commitment but at the same time, you wanted someone of that
6:33
caliber in the boat side and and ready to sit behind whoever it
6:40
is for however, long until he's ready to go.
6:44
So that hurts and like I said, the biggest place, Swear it
6:47
hurts. It hurts with those you know the
6:49
national columns, the regional columns.
6:51
Yep. Hurts with word of mouth with
6:53
other recruits or with other pipelines.
6:56
We could be developing and in, especially hurts, you know, in
7:00
Texas where we were even trying to build a pipeline and some of
7:03
that was, you know, tied I think to DDM in some ways and more or
7:11
less in other ways, but it's going to be interesting to see
7:15
if he doesn't. I'm taking the official.
7:17
So with Penn State depending on obviously how 2020 looks as a
7:21
season we're having positive thoughts on.
7:25
Yes yes I'm just trying to trying to qualify here so we
7:30
don't look on our face later but it does take that official.
7:36
I feel a little bit better about it.
7:37
I mean I feel like as of right now probably Auburn has the
7:44
Upper hand in terms of potentially Landing him.
7:49
I think we're kind of number two, definitely want to get him
7:53
on campus in order to feel better about that.
7:56
And then I think Miami is going to be a one of the team's that's
7:59
going to make a push there as well.
8:01
Yeah, I'm going to say just just a few things.
8:04
First of all, there's got to be some stuff going on behind the
8:08
scenes in his life. Because if you see just a few
8:11
weeks before, all this went down mean this, This was a gung-ho
8:15
kid, guys. Getting offers he was tweeting
8:17
Adam. You you know, we put highlight
8:20
package videos up, you know, laying he was tweeting and
8:22
retweeting and saying things, he was encouraging players to
8:25
commit, join it. And then all of a sudden, the
8:27
light happens look like swish. Boom.
8:31
And he D commits. We can only speculate what's
8:32
going on. He is 17 and you can imagine a
8:36
player of his caliber how much pressure there.
8:38
Is not only, you know, other schools knocking, down your
8:42
door, But family friends, everything.
8:47
Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go back.
8:49
I don't know if you ever talk with our buddy hambone about
8:52
Kentavious Street. Other than how much of a
8:59
complete study was in high school.
9:02
I didn't hear a whole lot of talk about him, but I mean I'm
9:05
sure you know what know more about his commitment.
9:06
In terms of what happens if you stay I'll be share a little
9:11
something with me and it was legitimately I mean Kentavious
9:15
was a top under player but tavius is kind of where
9:17
Demetrius was as defensive ends. He was one of the best offers
9:21
all over the country and he said, legitimately he would wake
9:24
up at 6:30 and his phone will not stop all day, text text,
9:29
text text messages message and you just kind of sit there and
9:32
think let's get 17. He's going to high school in
9:35
Didi's case, they're having a sit at home all day.
9:37
At least you go to high school. You can just say Mom I'll be
9:40
back in six hours for it. Yeah yeah you get a reprieve
9:44
from exactly constant bombardment of information and
9:47
people tell accurate. Yeah I can't imagine the the
9:51
pressure that's on a lot of these kids.
9:53
I mean obviously I've never experienced anything like that.
9:57
Personally, in terms of programs of that caliber, no you trying
10:01
to get me in the door or anything like that.
10:02
So I can't imagine what that's like and obviously you know
10:05
there's other pressures that come along with that of the
10:08
expectations of being a high-caliber football player.
10:13
You know, there's there's other things that come along with that
10:15
as well. So I'm feeling about, you know,
10:19
what the staff could have done could not have done in terms of
10:22
staving some of this off. Um, I don't think we know, I
10:27
mean, you know, a it's the Dead period.
10:30
So it's only so much they can do.
10:33
Be, people are kind of asking, you know, where they completely
10:36
dependent on him, putting all the pressure on them, we don't
10:39
know. I mean, we can assume like with
10:41
most recruits, you ask them, hey, you know, we'd love for you
10:44
to be out there encouraging guys to come here.
10:47
So we don't know how much pressure was put on him by the
10:50
staff. And again, that's behind.
10:54
The doors, you know, if things were not privy to and it's it's
10:59
one of those things where you can say we shouldn't let these
11:02
guys go out and recruit like they're really anybody that says
11:05
that on Twitter or just trying to be, you know, I'm going to be
11:08
the exact opposite. Like, ya know, if a kid commits
11:12
you're saying you want to go to university.
11:14
Yeah, we want you out there, you know, putting our name out,
11:17
putting positive comments behind it.
11:19
I mean, I have a question if somebody commits tomorrow.
11:24
And they go radio silent about Virginia Tech for a month.
11:28
How would you feel at the beginning of July, June about
11:31
their commitment? Would it be like oh yeah they're
11:34
all in or is it like he's not tweeting it, coaches, he's not
11:39
doing anything from the football or bow Davidson or any of our
11:44
other like - the non-football non Tech related accounts but
11:49
talk about decks football we rewrite.
11:51
What is the choice now where if you're not, if you go Radio
11:54
silence in this information age. I mean you just you don't people
11:58
don't know what to think anymore.
12:00
Especially from a fan base perspective or obviously the
12:04
coaches probably are going to have more day-to-day and
12:07
week-to-week contact with these guys via text or email or
12:10
whatever, maybe. But from a fan perspective, if
12:14
you don't see it out in the twittersphere, you all of a
12:16
sudden get cold freezing in like, there's problems, but I
12:21
mean, from a staff perspective, I think we could have done
12:23
better. Here house is the biggest one.
12:28
So, my biggest one is The the problems we've had with momentum
12:35
in terms of our recruiting and it started with DD verbally
12:39
committing and then it being three and a half months before
12:41
we get anybody else in the boat, that's pretty big.
12:45
That's a big problem because you've got to recruit of that
12:48
caliber and then you're not seeing some sort of, you can see
12:52
the coattails that you would normally expect from that.
12:56
And I think the staff didn't do a great job of capitalizing on
13:00
that. I think some of that had to do
13:01
with. With the staff.
13:03
Turnover. True happening right after that
13:06
verbal commitment. So there was some flux in terms
13:10
of what the staff is going to look like, especially when we
13:14
were primarily recruiting defensive players.
13:17
I think with this cycle defense is going to be defensive wide
13:20
receiver. Going to be probably the two
13:21
biggest. Yeah.
13:23
Things that were looking at for this 21 cycle.
13:25
Hold on a second though. I'm gonna miss ya point.
13:27
I'm gonna pay the ferryman to you.
13:29
He committed in December at that point in time we were We did not
13:33
have Alec Bryant did not have Robert wooten's and over the
13:37
next course of the next six weeks is we got them on and we
13:44
can say you know it sucks we didn't get anybody from 2021 but
13:48
at that point in time those two guys were the biggest recruits
13:51
we have on the board to go get and in people can say was three
13:56
and a half months and it's like yeah but what happens if we
13:59
don't land Alec Brown, we don't land Robert Wooten.
14:02
It's true. Do you take your focus off those
14:04
two guys who you're already in love with them because from a
14:08
defensive you already look at their body types and say these
14:10
guys can come in play and that's awesome.
14:13
That's okay. You don't have to be Brian, I
14:15
think is a year one contributor wound.
14:17
I mean he's got potential to be that if you comes in and has
14:21
enough time in Camp, obviously that's influx now as well.
14:25
But if he has enough time in Camp to show what he's capable
14:27
of, I think that's another spot to.
14:30
But like I said, I still look at them.
14:32
Minimum, another part of the momentum that we're talking
14:34
about is after we had that good run in the back half of March.
14:39
Yeah, not capitalizing in April, during a dead period where These
14:45
players are sitting at home and doing nothing, you know, once
14:49
you get some radio silence out there and you okay, so you got a
14:54
three and a half month run of not much in terms of 2021
14:59
commitments. And then you got Bam, Bam, Bam,
15:01
Bam, Bam. Bam three.
15:02
Right back to back. And then all of a sudden, radio
15:05
silence and all of a sudden you've got UNC exploding on the
15:10
scene, you got Tennessee exploding on the scene, you guys
15:12
UVA doing. What they do in terms of volume
15:17
that they've gotten in the last month month and a half.
15:20
And you see us kind of hit a little bit of a roadblock there.
15:24
Yep. So I think that probably played
15:28
some of the role as well. I mean, I don't know to what
15:30
degree. This is all playing a role but I
15:32
definitely think it played something of a role because, you
15:36
know, he, he keeps seeing early on he was like all right.
15:39
Yeah I'm ready to see you guys commit to Virginia Tech in the
15:43
end it I'm like you just you know, every time he said it it
15:46
seemed like just a little bit less, a little bit less, as
15:50
April went on and on and all of a sudden you get radio silence
15:53
says last two weeks. Yeah, let me ask this.
15:57
Do you think we're going to see any more collateral damage from
15:59
this? So I think the I think the only
16:04
big name could potentially be the trial Neville backing off
16:10
his commitment, you know? Just because of how closely
16:13
aligned he was with playing with DD in terms of his early
16:16
commitment and the fact that he hadn't been on campus yet.
16:20
So I think that's going to play a role as well.
16:23
I think if you if you was a guy we do Eddie got an on campus.
16:25
I feel a little bit more solid about it, but since he hasn't
16:29
been on campus, it's hard to tell what those first official
16:33
visits. He takes after the dead periods
16:35
over going to look like and how much that's going to impact him.
16:38
I think we did a good thing in terms of getting out there and
16:41
offering tyrol Raby, absences cousin.
16:45
I think that's a good thing because that shows that we're,
16:48
you know, we're making those moves in somebody that's also in
16:53
his inner circle. So yeah, that's Big time.
16:56
But the question is is that you know where does DD end up going?
17:00
And where ever he goes, is this Latrell Neville have a offer
17:04
that's committable from that University and if he does that
17:07
puts us in a lot worse position. So it's going to be really
17:11
strong to go after Tyler. I mean, he's the number one
17:13
corner in Louisiana, he's fitting that new mold 62, I
17:16
think 175 180 and he is that guy who's a high three, who's on the
17:22
borderline of the for like this? I think most people are feeling
17:26
that if if, if we get some camps this summer, we get to see him
17:30
some tape in the fall, he's going to be a 4 star before
17:32
signing day. I think that was a very smart
17:35
move, so it again, it's getting connections with Neville where
17:40
it's life. I've already got my offer here
17:42
now, Tyler can play Here and Now DD goes elsewhere.
17:45
Well now he's at a conundrum right.
17:48
What a DD get somewhere and they offer Nevel but they don't offer
17:51
Tyler. Yeah so it's one of those things
17:54
where With him he could be that torn thing and does.
17:58
Maybe maybe Neville comes back and says Dee Dee you know you
18:02
love the place. You've been there, you were all
18:04
about it, some change, I don't know what their hands up but
18:09
that's my cousin, that's blood. Yeah, and I mean some of this
18:12
could be just the fact that, you know, he committed early and he
18:16
was super, he was in the boat but he's trying to get people to
18:20
sign on and he sees everybody else.
18:24
Kind of getting all this, you know, Star Treatment.
18:27
And I mean, once you're in the boat yet, you still get that.
18:30
You get that love. But I think, you know, you don't
18:32
have you don't have multiple fan bases fawning over you.
18:42
Like you, like you do when you're still still uncommitted
18:45
there so that you have been something to it.
18:47
Obviously, these are 17 18 year olds.
18:49
It's really hard to say, what's going through their minds In
18:53
terms of 100% making those choices.
18:56
But, I mean, this is Virginia Tech recruiting, this is nothing
19:00
new. It's not and I know, you know,
19:03
me and you were kind of talking about them things we could talk
19:05
about. I mean, this isn't like
19:09
something that where we were top 10 Juggernaut to 10 years and
19:13
recruiting and then it fell off. I mean, you know, I went back
19:17
and looked up the last really since 2004 since when join the
19:21
ACC Cycles. I mean, you're ready for the
19:24
numbers. I mean the growing down
19:26
everybody. So starting in 2004 recruiting
19:29
class and going down, 04:34 05 2006, 3107 2608 1809 25 2010,
19:41
28, 2011, 35, 2012, 21, 2013, 21, 2014, 28, 2015, 29, The
19:53
transition, your 1642 1726 1824, 1926 and 2020.
20:00
The miserable 74. Brian.
20:02
Did we crack the top 15 in the last?
20:05
Since we joined the ACC? We have not now that doesn't
20:10
correlate with what most people see.
20:12
And again it's it might I think it really might be just a
20:16
problem with the, with tech in general.
20:18
Because during those years man, finish Thousand five ending,
20:22
tempt, 06, seventh 07:19, excuse me.
20:27
So for we into 10th 06 705, 706 1907, 1908 15, and then like 10
20:38
16, you see those numbers? You would think why are they
20:43
getting top 15 or top or in the teens consistently?
20:48
And it's one of those things that I know a lot of people have
20:51
always said, It's our brand, where blue-collar?
20:54
We found the Diamonds in the Rough.
20:57
You know it's one of those things where you know where top
21:01
10 Croom top 10 team consistently in the 2000s in our
21:05
average was 23 and recruiting know you know and I mean if this
21:10
particular back to 95 we're talking about recruiting classes
21:13
averaging. Probably right around 30.
21:16
Yeah, on the whole maybe 32. So somewhere between 30 and 35
21:21
is our is our our average recruiting class in the
21:24
so-called Glory, Glory Days of the program and they were I mean
21:30
I mean I'll argue anybody that sort of run where we were
21:32
significantly finishing in the top 20 every single year in the
21:37
top 10 multiple times in the top five a couple times and most of
21:42
the time, what you see is there's bumps, you consistently
21:45
get that good, you know, while they're going to walk in and
21:49
that, you know, that mid for Star, who's in No, in South
21:52
Carolina will at that point. I'm Clinton won't doing that
21:55
good. South Carolina was nothing to
21:57
brag about George's. Okay.
21:59
This is pretty good but they go off and they can get him, didn't
22:02
get him, why not? So it's again, I read.
22:06
I'll say the word again. It's a stigma with the program
22:08
of the way we recruit can it change?
22:11
Yes. But right now, it's not.
22:15
And, you know, it seems like it's continuingly lingering even
22:19
after a Again after a younger head coach and I know his ties
22:25
aren't regionally there. But a younger head coach.
22:27
A younger staff. You know what is technique to
22:33
do? Do you think it's a branding or
22:35
messaging problem or do you think it's just the attract
22:39
ability of playing at Virginia Tech isn't isn't glamorous?
22:45
Well, here's the thing, I think it's I don't think it's a brandy
22:49
because by all means if it was a true brand.
22:51
Issue. I think we would have seen those
22:53
first few years under for Wednesday.
22:55
They wouldn't have been as good. They would have been more in the
22:59
40 to 50 range where they were not.
23:01
They were about where Frank was. I mean honestly if you say well
23:06
he does know how to recruit and it's like the numbers don't bear
23:10
the difference there. Guys, you're telling yourself a
23:13
lie about the former staff in the, in the former way, things
23:17
were done. So I don't think it's just the
23:22
brain. I think we are in Blacksburg
23:24
Virginia, which is to me. The perfect college town, small
23:29
quite good, place to get your education, everything's
23:31
connected, but that doesn't float the boat for every
23:36
recruit. That would be my thought.
23:38
Okay, so, you know, let's let's take a look at that a little bit
23:42
further, so, Let's let's, I thought about this and I'm going
23:48
to highlight some inherent disadvantages.
23:52
That Virginia Tech has relative to the competition in the ACC.
23:58
Number one, our in-state rival is centrally located in.
24:02
We are not. That is 100% true.
24:05
They are within an hour of Richmond there within two hours
24:08
of Nova, two and a half. Now, three and a half of the
24:11
beach. Yeah.
24:14
We are not situated. Then a smaller large city, like
24:17
the majority of ACC and power 5, East Coast Schools.
24:21
You're right. We are thus, I think the
24:23
smallest city I mean we're one of the smaller Camp because it's
24:26
what 35,000 Blacksburg population.
24:29
Yeah. You compare that to somewhere
24:30
like Tuscaloosa, Tuscaloosa is 110,000 people.
24:33
It's triple the size. Yeah.
24:35
And and with those things come other amenities that are popular
24:41
amongst college-going age kids. Yeah.
24:45
Yeah. I mean, say what you want about
24:48
the small town atmosphere, but cities offer things for college
24:50
students to do that. Small towns, can't do and not a
24:54
match. So 3, we do not even once
25:01
everything that is currently being built is finished and will
25:05
not have facilities relative to the Blue Bloods that we want to
25:08
catch and most of them. We were not even matching some
25:12
of the second tier schools. We generally think that we're
25:15
better. Them.
25:18
The Beamer Barn is about the only thing that we got ahead of
25:20
those second-tier programs on but we were still several years
25:24
behind Blue Bloods even on that. Yeah.
25:26
But what's going up now is like two or three years behind most
25:29
of these second-tier programs they've had something like that
25:34
or at least partially like that. Very that's been on campus for
25:37
23 years now. Absolutely and all the blue
25:41
blood programs have had them for several years and Florida's
25:44
taking it a step. Step further with what they're
25:47
building right now. They're essentially build an
25:50
all-inclusive luxury resort for 18 year old kids.
25:54
Yep. And for them the final thing is
25:58
that our expectations that holds us back we expect to compete on
26:05
the field like a top-15 program. We expect to recruit like a top
26:09
25 programs. So we're already our
26:11
expectations are higher than what we can theoretically
26:14
recruit. But we fund the program like a
26:17
top 50 program. I can't argue with those think.
26:23
It's absolutely true. And, you know, I'm going to say
26:29
this and some people might say it's wrong.
26:33
When Justin Fuente was hired. I think with Bob cock understood
26:37
this, I think with Babcock knew he needed a more coach than
26:41
recruiter because even if you took the best Recruiters in the
26:45
country, line them up. I think it would be hard for
26:50
even them. Above table above table.
26:55
Yep. Say that, again, above table to
26:57
get kids to come. No Hugh freeze situation here.
27:03
Do you want that as if you don't, you don't, you don't, you
27:06
don't want that guy, running a program like that.
27:10
But it's so I think what maybe fans have got to realize is he
27:14
didn't hire there Cooter. He hired a guy that you have to
27:16
coach football and people can jump up and down and say oh he
27:19
just did it at Memphis. Memphis had been good too.
27:22
Times in the entire life, love that program one was DeAngelo.
27:27
Williams in the early. 2001 was like in the 1960s.
27:31
And he literally coach that group of players up, hey, guess
27:33
what they did Hugh freeze has paid off team.
27:37
Yep. Yep.
27:39
Um, so, you know maybe that's what we need to.
27:42
Look at that. We always will need.
27:45
Maybe not the prettiest recruiters but we need guys who
27:48
can coach now, you know. It's kind of argued last year.
27:53
And you know numerous times and we set it again think about it.
27:58
They put hinted hooker in game one.
27:59
How well that our team was coached.
28:02
Yeah. Um we dominated good teams of
28:07
times and teams that were at our level.
28:10
You know, we played with deaf. So I think we got to start
28:14
looking through a different lens.
28:15
Do I want top 15 recruit? Yeah, because I think me and you
28:18
have said it probably since we were in our 20s.
28:24
If Virginia Tech ever gets a top 10 class, the world's not going
28:28
to know what to do. Because there's going to be
28:29
Talent with guys who know how to coach, you know, how skiing hell
28:32
were you just stack three top 15 classes 2020.
28:36
I ain't even saying that 2003, top 20 classes.
28:43
So yeah, man. But it's like I'll give I'll
28:48
give it a shot. We've had one top 20 class.
28:55
Basically since we were 20 11 we won.
29:03
Yep in. So let me does it beg the
29:07
question this? Do we not do?
29:13
Does the powers that be in Blacksburg?
29:15
Not a budget to get the program that literally makes kids and
29:20
roll? And literally, guys, we went to
29:23
high school school with that's why they enrolled there is
29:26
because of that program to do they know how to budget.
29:32
No, no. And I don't think this is going
29:40
to be a shock to anyone listening, but we haven't made
29:45
football a priority from a financial investment
29:48
perspective. For a very long time and I think
29:55
if we want to see in this new world of college football, if
29:59
you want to see, substitute changing especially in terms of
30:04
recruiting two, things need to happen.
30:07
A top-down University. Focus on getting better on the
30:10
field by investing and from a fan and alumni perspective,
30:17
opening up your wallets. I mean, those two things have to
30:22
happen, I'm not saying that good recruits are going to come just
30:26
because the money is rolling in. But I'll tell you something, it
30:29
will certainly get better. Damn, right?
30:32
Because the more, the more you can get on that recruiting
30:35
staff, the more you can scout in advance the more you can focus
30:38
your efforts on the guys, the more you can sell the program in
30:44
the light that you want to sell it.
30:46
Yep it's going to it's going to reap some benefits and that on
30:50
top, Of that facilities, man. If the facilities improve that,
30:54
that people talk about, you know, winning games is going to
30:59
solve problems. It solves some of the problems,
31:02
but it doesn't solve all the problems, because the perception
31:06
is that The school with the shiny new object is better
31:11
especially if they're winning the same amount of games.
31:13
If we were out there winning national championships every
31:16
year, you might say okay well maybe not but we're not we're
31:20
out there winning eight to ten games every year and if if a kid
31:24
can win eight to ten games in Blacksburg or went eight to ten
31:28
games in Gainesville with their damn pool and Cabana outside
31:32
their indoor facility, we're just getting going.
31:37
Gainesville and you make the point of it Bryant and you shot
31:42
me this earlier today. And it's in then I didn't did
31:46
math which I don't know why I'm doing math.
31:48
What Math is Fun - fun but you shot me of thing the day and
31:54
basically you said this and some angry emojis behind it.
31:59
The football The total football budget is 68% of the athletic
32:04
budget, Virginia, Tech 68%. That's first of all, that's
32:08
probably like most programs, but on a question over on because I
32:11
did the math, okay? Football only gets fifty three
32:15
percent of that 50. They get a little over half of
32:18
the pie that they're bringing in, that's bullshit, the that's
32:22
bullshit. If anything, they should at
32:25
least be getting 65%, that's my opinion.
32:29
They should at least be getting sixty five percent of what they
32:31
bring in in. Somebody's like, well, you know,
32:36
there's only like two or three million bucks.
32:38
You know what you can do with two or three million dollars,
32:40
you can put an extra ten guys on the recruiting staff to be
32:43
scouting, the Is he making the contacts?
32:46
Just like all these big boy programs have not just big boy
32:49
programs. UVA per second to your program.
32:55
You can you imagine that saying every year and you were going a
32:59
lot of it to give the football program and extra 3 million a
33:02
year. What could be done?
33:03
Not only inside the operational stuff but we talked about it a
33:08
little earlier that what else could we get with that?
33:10
3 million bucks? Mmm, I mean, you can get a lot
33:15
of good things with three million dollars.
33:17
Man, you could get some, you can probably start an investment on
33:23
a new on some new facilities, some new upgrades, Tulane
33:26
stadium, for example, if these kids well I find that bad boy
33:32
the running joke amongst fans. Like I mean, so we're talking
33:38
about game day improvements so I mean with that extra money.
33:42
You could at least improve. Fan Experience on game day for I
33:46
think improving Fan Experience would improve the willingness of
33:49
them to also open their wallets both in increased ticket prices,
33:56
increase parking fees or just, you know, contributions to hokey
34:01
Club. So, you know, all of these
34:04
things play off of each other. It's nothing is happening in a
34:08
vacuum here and I feel like that's the way a lot of people.
34:12
Look at these things. Is that?
34:14
Well, if you get a new coach recruiting will get better.
34:17
No. Why do things have to happen for
34:20
recruiting to get better at Virginia Tech and it's not just
34:23
coaching. I mean I think we can all agree
34:26
that we would we think recruiting could be better under
34:30
other coaching but that's not saying that we need a coaching
34:34
change because I don't think the on-field.
34:35
We can get another coach right now where the on-field product
34:38
will be as good as what we're experiencing.
34:40
So there's a give-and-take there.
34:41
Yep. And then, you know, at this
34:44
point you've got to convince a any, if you're talking about
34:49
replacing a coach, you've got to convince any coach that they,
34:52
like I said earlier, you got to say, we expect you to be a
34:55
top-15 program on the field. Probably you're not going to do
35:01
any better than top 30 recruiting and you're going to
35:04
get top 50 funds to do that at though, there's a point of
35:08
diminishing returns there for any coach, even if they can
35:11
recruit their ass off. It's true man.
35:15
I mean it's true and then I mean some of the info that you know
35:18
you you shared with we shared together, we like Believe It.
35:22
Or Not guys, this was supposed to be what 3 days ago, Brian
35:25
this is like really 25 minute episode.
35:27
Yeah, some things take this off, we started diving into the
35:32
aspects of the fruiting and the further we dug the further we
35:36
were like, okay, let's have a conversation about some of this
35:39
other dirty laundry while we're here, because it's kind of its
35:42
it all because like we said, it all feeds Each other.
35:45
Just just say it straight up. What?
35:46
You told me, there's two programs that pay for themselves
35:49
at the University of Virginia, Virginia Tech University.
35:51
Yeah. Virginia Tech polytechnical,
35:54
they are the ones discussed football and men's basketball
35:59
pretty much breaks even in the last several years.
36:02
They've been in the black that's it.
36:04
But more or less their Breakeven program, occasionally in the
36:08
red. Usually just over in the black
36:11
and that's most schools. There are your few that I do
36:14
have very strong women. You know, certain women's
36:17
programs. You have some schools that
36:18
probably are so strong in baseball, they pay for
36:20
themselves but in Virginia Tech, it's too.
36:23
And you start sitting here and you know o XV T.
36:30
If you want to stole some of our Thunder because he can release
36:32
what mean you found and it was just in man.
36:36
He got the heat that got on him in the last few days about what
36:41
just a simple point out. There is and votes, were not.
36:47
This is not trying to be rude, not trying to be mean but we're
36:49
just seeing it as we see it, there's one program or one
36:53
Athletic program. At Virginia Tech.
36:59
That is essentially it's using 600, right?
37:03
Is it 600 500 times? Its budget five hundred percent
37:06
of us but five hundred percent that's nuts.
37:10
That's nuts for five hundred percent of its Revenue.
37:14
And you're sitting here and it's just like, you know, it's the
37:21
women's basketball program. And it's like, that's insane.
37:25
Like, no, because we in these kind of started diving, most of
37:29
them, it's like, you know, it's 100% to 200% and that's
37:33
reasonable there. You want those programs at some,
37:36
for kids to go do it gives chance for kids to potentially
37:40
go to a university. They always want to play at.
37:42
But when you're talking for Hundred when you talking about
37:45
that few million dollars me and you just discussed there.
37:48
It is right there, it's right in one specific thing.
37:52
And if you're sitting here is fans, you want to say, listen,
37:57
One support the university as a whole.
37:59
But you see that big 66 thousand dollar thing right there, that
38:03
is a frickin. As I stated when we were at
38:06
their, it's one of the icons in this game.
38:09
Over the last 30 years, that's what pays for things.
38:13
And when you're saying, they are only getting that 53 percent of
38:17
the pie and other people in other programs are getting so
38:22
much. It fired you up.
38:25
It fired me up and guys let me let's let's go ahead and say
38:30
here, we don't want to cut the women's basketball program.
38:34
We think we think the here are necessary element of the
38:37
University very important. But what we're saying is that If
38:43
you're not making the money to justify the allocation of the
38:47
resources, we need to, at least. Look at how those resources are
38:52
being spent and whether they could be spent better and the
38:56
football program to make the pie bigger.
38:59
But what we're talking about right now is that if the we look
39:05
at Clemson and we look at UNC and some of the things that
39:08
they've been doing and even UVA when they've invested.
39:12
David in the football program, the pie got bigger.
39:16
Yep. And when the pie gets bigger,
39:18
Everybody Eats better. You damn right.
39:22
It's so true. And and, you know, a lot of a
39:27
lot of people talk about it and I've tried to read someone what
39:30
sayings thing is the way. I see that he thinks it is, is
39:34
he thinks an athletic budget. You should have a utopian
39:37
athletic department. It is not possible at Virginia
39:41
Tech. It's not, is it possible that
39:43
Texas or Texas A&M? And some of those schools with
39:46
200 million dollar revenues? Yes, we're not there yet.
39:51
No. So, if you're trying to turn it
39:53
in terms of Revenue, are a little bit weird in a 50 million
39:57
behind UVA. We're not in it, but we're not
40:00
in a terrible spot. Where is it?
40:01
Okay, spot. Yeah, the way I look at it and
40:04
the way I talked about it, Ryan is in the corporate world and I
40:08
know some people say well Athletics is different than the
40:10
corporate world. No, it's really not company.
40:13
I work for company. You work for and I will mention
40:16
the name. Top 100 on Forbes, very
40:20
profitable company. As, you know, Brian there are
40:23
different sectors of that company.
40:26
And as you know, there are some sectors that get treated a lot
40:30
better, they get a lot more tools to get a lot more
40:33
flexibility. And you know why?
40:35
Usually they get that because they're the money makers.
40:39
Damn. Right.
40:41
And it irritates, some people that are in the Lesser
40:43
divisions, like, what's not fair, they're good.
40:45
Upgrading their systems. You got your laptops.
40:47
All they got to do better work. It's like you know, do you know
40:51
why you got the Rays last year because they fucking crush them
40:55
and then people just kind of Turn away and say yeah you're
40:58
right because normally what happens and we saw it at that
41:02
level was is that bigger division?
41:04
Did better? What happened?
41:07
We saw the effects of it didn't. Yeah, we saw the upgrades on the
41:10
systems. We got the laptops, we got more
41:13
flexibility and it was just kind of like why can't someone is
41:17
Rated as the president of Virginia Tech University.
41:20
See that? And to me it's sort of is one of
41:25
those things. Where why don't you see this
41:29
man? Like these Clemson is where we
41:31
were 10 years ago. They have went through the roof
41:36
because of how they budgeted we have made marginal gains now and
41:42
I mean, they institutionally realign saying we're going to
41:48
Make our football team good. Yeah, that's what they did.
41:51
They they ended up what they cut one or two sports at the time
41:56
and they realign the funding into facilities and recruiting.
42:02
Yep, that they pulled from those those other sports and all of a
42:07
sudden you know, you get one ACC Championship in there and all of
42:12
a sudden got to run going. Yes.
42:14
Because now you've got people willing to open their Wallets.
42:18
Hmm. And make the program, go on its
42:22
own and now you've got what they, what women's sports, they
42:26
just had softball. Was that it that they just
42:28
added. Don't, don't put me on that,
42:31
man. Yeah, but I believe softballs is
42:34
for that they that they just added since.
42:36
I mean, the football team is had enough success at this point
42:41
where they were able to carve out part of their budget for
42:44
another sport in less, in less than 10 years.
42:47
Years without without lowering, what they're doing investing in
42:51
their football team. Nope.
42:54
Not at all. So yeah, I mean let me tell you
42:58
if I was with Babcock, I would go around to with the exception
43:05
of men's basketball and with the exception of the football
43:07
program and I would look at everybody and say we need to
43:10
make the ten percent cut to your operational expenses, figure it
43:15
out. And if they threw a, why are we
43:17
doing that? Because there's program.
43:20
That's floated this whole entire department for the last close to
43:25
30 years and they're not getting what they need to keep up.
43:29
We have the potential to be that top 15 program.
43:32
Every year, we need some extra money, we need some old bodies.
43:36
Let's talk about another part of it.
43:37
Let's talk about in the they've been doing pretty well with with
43:43
enrollment but you saw the enrollment boom after 1990.
43:47
Nine. I mean yes you did if
43:50
enrollments going up that's that's more Student Activity
43:53
fees that are contributing to some of these extra Oscars
43:56
Sports as well. So again you know I'm going to
44:00
mix metaphors here. You know Rising tide raises all
44:03
raises all the boats here. Yes sir it does.
44:06
So let's try to focus on what we can do to get those those funds
44:11
in and yeah they take a smaller percentage of the pie but let's
44:16
make the pie bigger. So Probably in about four to
44:20
five years. You're probably at least back at
44:22
your, your current operating budget, if not higher.
44:26
But but to that point to Brian again you talking about raises,
44:30
all Tides, if you start seeing the football program, do what it
44:34
did in those early 90s and have that upper trajectory well you
44:38
talk about all these other sports you know what they know
44:42
as that's a good football program there in the ACC.
44:45
Hey I got a good softball program.
44:47
I'll go play there. R.
44:48
Yeah. So what you're doing is by
44:50
supporting the football program, you're actually making other
44:54
sports able to recruit better. It's not hard to figure that out
44:59
now. So I've got something in front
45:02
of me that I know we firm back and forth, and I've already
45:04
mentioned a little bit here, but it's the operating revenues and
45:09
expenditures compared between Virginia Tech and UVA.
45:13
Oh, yeah, I'm going to glanced at it and I know you.
45:17
Look at it harder. I don't like what I see, but you
45:20
go ahead and break the bearer of bad news, okay?
45:23
So we eat their lunch into categories.
45:27
Football, ticket, sales and guarantees, and meteorites.
45:33
We are 11 million ahead of them and football, ticket, sales and
45:37
guarantees, and we are seven and a half million ahead of them in
45:41
meteorites. They take us to school on pretty
45:46
much every category, some of them more than others.
45:49
The two biggest areas that we fall behind on.
45:55
We're not Really even in a comparable area is
46:00
contributions, which were eight million behind them and then the
46:05
value of Athletics, dedicated endowments.
46:10
So what that says to me is that their alumni are doing better
46:16
and not just giving, but giving across all sports and in terms
46:21
of giving towards athletic specific things, whether it be
46:26
The facilities or other benefits for the athletic department,
46:32
thoughts. Well, first of all, I'm going to
46:38
say this. They are significantly older
46:42
probably University. That's not even a question.
46:45
You have more legacies there, people that go there because Mom
46:48
and Dad went there so on and so forth.
46:51
So that helps. But, you know, I think the other
46:57
piece that you make a point of is the about the things across
47:01
the board is you have Have people that specifically donate
47:06
to certain programs like the baseball program.
47:09
So somebody, you know, I think Zimmerman a few years ago like a
47:12
hundred thousand dollar check to the baseball program.
47:15
Well, guess what happens when somebody of that stature with
47:18
that amount of money writes, that amount of money to a
47:20
smaller program? Guess where that money goes back
47:23
to It goes back to the path to be divided up amongst the other
47:29
program for to go back to the football program or men's
47:31
basketball program. And then that's another thing
47:34
they have had some alumni on. Why am I, why am I mind
47:39
blinking? The writer UVA, grad, I'm
47:45
blanking as well, this is what happens when you do this this.
47:51
And we can take that on in post-production, right?
47:53
Yeah, we will edit that one. Don't do it, man.
47:59
Why do I want to say look a bit sad bird, I can edit the gym.
48:04
Why do I want to say? It's John Grisham.
48:09
Sure. Go for it.
48:10
Well, I feel like they, that and then I let it in something.
48:14
That sounds the correct. It's one of the big variety.
48:18
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that that's accurate.
48:21
No, it's not Grisham. This one's an Ole Miss is a
48:23
Mississippi State guy. Never And was it?
48:26
Hold on because she was one of the more, the thing, 1990s,
48:40
big-time Riders. This is kind of funny.
48:46
Survey says they get your get your computer on the starch
48:51
starch in this tag on it. Okay, it was about dodgy.
48:55
We actually went to VCU and UVA, okay?
48:57
So they felt about you so it was you guys make so much money
49:03
sports program and guess what? He did a bunch of big checks.
49:08
So in that helps, I mean, there's no two ways about it,
49:11
that is always going to help. Um, now what I think that the
49:16
athletic department needs to do is do realize that the Virginia
49:20
Tech a, what 250,000 living graduates me and you aren't one
49:24
of them, but I mean, you just do the raw numbers.
49:30
If 250,000 people gave a million people gave a hundred bucks It's
49:37
$20, that's not a lot of money that's not, that's not even
49:42
saying, you know, we don't, we don't need people giving, you
49:46
know, for, you know, giving you know, thousands of dollars.
49:49
If you have every living alumni, give $100.
49:52
I know that's one of the best of utopian statement.
49:54
So call me out on that if you want, but I'm not going to call
49:58
you out on it because you know, even if you know, we're talking
50:01
about the drive for 25 and things like that, I mean, yeah
50:03
everyone can afford 25 dollars out of their budget.
50:07
Budget over the course of a year.
50:10
I mean it's you know what 3 4 5 cups cups of coffee from
50:13
Starbucks and you've, you know, contributed a quarter of what
50:18
Curtis was just talking about. So, you know, I mean, I know, I
50:24
know there are people that are strapped for cash and in
50:27
absolute poverty, but I don't think that's more than a very
50:32
small percentage of alumni and fans.
50:34
We're not talking about 20% of Virginia Tech fans are living in
50:38
poverty or anything like that. So so what that says is if
50:42
you're the athletic department, again, it's got to be a mindset
50:47
to change into your point. How its operating from the top
50:53
down? Because if you really went hard
50:55
after it that way and you recreated those resources, you
50:59
created those teams, it probably could pick up quicker.
51:03
So yeah, I've read things that fans has written about Out
51:07
football and I don't really I don't know what he expects some
51:13
sort of proverbial bubble to burst in terms of meteorites and
51:19
football in the next 5 to 10 years that I just don't see
51:24
happening. He's trying to write some very
51:28
Off the Wall statement that if he's right, he gets to jump up
51:30
and down. And when we were wrong, the guy
51:32
that's ahead of the curve when the bubble burst, but the bubble
51:36
was fed to To be bursting 10 years ago and it hasn't it said
51:40
to be bursting in five years. I mean, everybody keeps saying,
51:44
well the bubble of football is going to burst and it just
51:46
doesn't well you know what, it probably has bursted in some way
51:49
but it's such a minut bus burst. Nobody can tell it like yeah,
51:53
kind of burst a little bit. But yeah.
51:56
You know less people in the stands, still 63,000 people here
51:59
of 66 that's not much of a burst and most of that has been
52:03
transitioned into the media dollars.
52:05
I'm not like the You know, the direct funding to the university
52:10
has changed but the indirect funding is went up significantly
52:13
from money that's coming in for the ACC and from the NCAA
52:18
exactly though you make a point on that like you say it's going
52:21
to burst about what for for Black Friday as you go that year
52:27
where we were like six and like Frank's last year or the year
52:30
before Frank retired, we were six and six and they were like
52:33
five and seven or whatever, that game was the Friday.
52:37
Night game on ESPN you. How many people pulled on a
52:40
Friday? Black Friday over Thanksgiving
52:42
weekend with two teams. One struggle, one, not making a
52:45
bowl, one fighting for Bowl eligibility, which you can watch
52:48
that game. I'm in 3.8 million people.
52:53
The yep, they go right there, that wasn't that thing.
52:56
Supposedly dead robbery in both teams at near Rock, Bottom
53:01
entangling, their program output 100% run.
53:06
This has been fun to do the budget but we have to one more
53:08
piece of news and I feel like we're going to probably go back
53:12
and revisit this again. But uh we we got to commit.
53:18
Yeah, we did transfer from Kansas God.
53:22
We love to go to Kansas and get comments and get transferred
53:25
from this. Kansas is done is better than
53:28
Virginia and of later because I think a little bit what are you
53:41
feeling about this 63 guy? So yeah, big body.
53:44
Wide receiver. Definitely think he's going to
53:47
step in and at least in terms of Red Zone, he's going to fill
53:51
some of the hole that was created when Damon Hazelton
53:54
transferred to Missouri. So that's that's good.
53:58
You know, I like I like what I see on tape, he's got quick
54:02
First Step, he can get open, he's had some injuries.
54:06
So that's obviously a concern to look at, but I know, I think he
54:11
just kind of, he's one of those that had had injuries after
54:15
having a good season and then, I think health-wise got back to
54:21
where he wanted to be. But, Based on some of the other
54:24
recruits that it came in there and things like that.
54:26
Yeah, just off. Snap count go down and things
54:28
like that. So we ended up being a
54:31
beneficiary of the that situation I think I said I think
54:33
from a Red Zone perspective he's at least going to be a solid
54:38
South player force in 2020. Could be potentially more than
54:42
that but definitely will I think take over what Hazleton did in
54:47
the red zone for us. So that that's a good thing
54:51
because some of the other guys Been talking about had other
54:55
skills but the Red Zone Target was still something that we were
54:59
a little concerned about. So I'm glad we went out and got
55:01
a guy that could take on that role 100% And if nothing else it
55:05
makes you feel better about the depth at the wide receiver
55:07
position while the positions we were a little bit worried about
55:10
but Kevin and come in having some game experience, you have
55:13
the injuries are concerned because it was a sophomore year.
55:16
It looks like, you know, he had like 20 plus perceptions was
55:19
looking like one of those guys that was on go up and then got
55:21
bang twice and then With less coming in some, some changes in
55:25
the recruiting and things like that.
55:27
So yeah, feel good about just because again, it's a body out
55:31
there with along, with Trail along with kavion Big Stone Gap
55:37
makes you feel a little better about that room and all black
55:40
here. Thank you.
55:41
Sorry. Yeah, I know.
55:43
Yeah, I know he's not, he's not camping with those boys, but I
55:47
Got a Feeling Black. She was going to be be running
55:49
the slot a lot. So hopefully this is going to
55:52
benefit. In the Red Zone, you get us
55:55
being able to have two Big Red Zone targets out there with with
55:59
Mitchell and then, obviously, having failures now coming in.
56:02
So I think that should be good for us from inside the 20
56:05
perspective, 100% man. All right, so what we're asking
56:09
this week guys again, it's not a poll question.
56:11
So what things would you like to see?
56:15
Virginia Tech, do financially to be more competitive on the
56:17
football field? I told you mine.
56:19
I'd like to see a 10% cut across every 10% expense cut off every
56:26
sport, but men's basketball and football, let those funds
56:29
funneled back into the football program for all sorts of things
56:32
Brawn. What about you?
56:35
You know, I think just from an alignment perspective, just
56:38
putting the focus on on football putting a larger piece of the
56:43
pie. I'm not sure I would go as
56:45
strong as a 10% cut across the board, but I would look at every
56:48
department. And I was, I would say I'd look
56:50
at every sport and say Working, we trim the fat and do it on a
56:55
on a on a sport basis just because I think some could find
57:00
more fat to trim than others. So I think that perspective
57:03
might be better and then again reinvest that money into the
57:07
either recruiting services or into improving the game day
57:12
experience at Lane. Absolutely.
57:15
All right folks well that wraps up this episode of The Boundary
57:18
Corner podcast I'm Curtis Wilson, I'm Brian.
57:22
Sigler is always without our buddy, Jason long place out.
57:25
Catch him on Spotify and apple. Music, follow us on Twitter and
57:29
Facebook, subscribe to your favorite podcast, or our
57:33
podcast. And as always, let's go.
57:37
Oh keys.