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Katie Woolf spoke with Chief Minister Michael Gunner on the NT Budget and Youth Crime Legislation · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The Chief Minister, Michael Gunner, yesterday delivered the Northern Territory's budget,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: announcing significant improvements in its debt and deficit levels, but
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the budget books are still tough reading, with no surplus
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: forecast for at least the next decade. Mister Gunner unveiled
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: the one point four billion dollar deficit for the upcoming
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: financial year. The territory's net debt is expected to reach
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: nine billion dollars in twenty twenty one twenty two, one
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: billion better than previously forecast. Unfortunately, though, we're not able
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: to have the Chief Minister live on the radio this
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: morning due to a double booking with his schedule, but
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: I caught up with him earlier today. Take a listen,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Chief Minister and Treasurer Michael Gunner, Good morning, Chief Minister.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: With these numbers are so large, it is quite incomprehensible
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I think for everyday Territorians to really understand the level
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: of debt, to give some perspective, how.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Much is the government borrowing a day?
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: So we've actually you I proved our interest payments. We
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: are now down to just over a million a day
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: in interest, which is down from what we were paying
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: last year. Obviously, fiscal strategy remains the same. Control the virus,
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: grow the economy, repair the budget. Were now to do
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: all three things in this budget. So the nine hundred
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: million dollar improvement the bomb line, a billion dollar improvement
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: on net debt. You can do that if you grow
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: the economy, control the virus. So we're very keen. So
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: I get the numbers aren't great. I want to improve them.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: I think we're showing that we can improve them if
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: we control the virus and grow the economy.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: When you talk though about how much the government is
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: borrowing a day, I understand it is just over a
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: million dollars in interest a day.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: How much are we borrowing a day?
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: I can prob do it a math for you, but
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: we don't actually don't borrow it on a daily basis.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: That makes sense. You borrow and lump some so I
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: can get back to you on how much that might be.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: But obviously debt is around nine bills, not great billion
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: dollars less than what's going to be, which is better obviously,
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: but still a lot of work to do now.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: You did spin a very positive story yesterday when handing
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: down the budget, but we are still talking about to
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: use your words eye watering levels of debt nine billion
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: dollars It is set to expand to eleven point four
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: billion by the end of the Ford estimates period in
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four to twenty five, when taxpayers are going
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: to be forking out four hundred and seventy eight million
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: in annual interest repayments. By the end of the decade,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: net debt is expected to balloon to thirteen point seven
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: billion dollars. How are you going to manage these levels
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: of debt?
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: I think we've shown in this budget how we can
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: do that. We have grown the economy about to improve
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: a bomb line by nine hundred mili over two years
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: and reduce net debt by a billion.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Is much of that attributed though, to the GST.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: Yes, because we made tough, hard decisions in recent years,
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: we're able to keep down our spending and so when
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: extra revenue comes in, we're able to put it against
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: our borrings.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: But you have been incredibly critical over the years of
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: that GST carve up and the way that it's impacted territorians.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, if the main reason now that the budget
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: books are looking better than last is due to that
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: GST revenue, then really are you able to take credit
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: A couple of important points there. In the last year
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: of the CLP's government fifteen sixteen, they received three point
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: three billion in GST. In these budget books where we
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: are getting more GST than we expected, we're getting two
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: point nine billion, so still four hundred million dollars less
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: of what the CLP received in there last year.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: We're talking about your government though, when you've been in
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: power now for quite a few years, so realistically, what
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: actual savings are you making.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, so we've made a number of very tough savings
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: decisions over recent budgets that put us in the position
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: where when that extra unanticipated GST came in and two
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: point nine so still four undred million dollars less than
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: what the CLP received, we're able to put it against
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: buy ring. So you can only make those decisions if
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: you run a tight ship. We're running a tight ship,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: and so as the economy grows and revenues increase again,
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: then we can keep making sure we tackle our deficit
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: and debts. That's my intention. So I think you'll see
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: those numbers improve over the Ford estimate.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: So just taking that into a how much are those
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: savings well saving us this financial year for example.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: So it's all accumulative and it has led to significant savings.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: So if you look at our expenses, they're well down,
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  Speaker 3: so you're looking at a nine hundred million dollar improvement
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: over those two financial years. The savings are recurrent, so
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: they're year on year.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: I can get you a.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: Number from all the savings scsces who were essentially made
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: over the last five years. The biggest one that we're making, though,
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: that remains in the books, will be the four hundred
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: and twenty million dollar saving from the wages policy, which
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: would have the effect if you don't do that, if
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: you don't control wages, you were cut about eighteen hundred
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: public servis.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Well, as you've said that wage freeze for public servants.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I spoke to Kay Densley yesterday who said that your
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: policy is going to result in people leaving the Northern Territory.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Chief Minister, are you going to go through with this
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: four year wage freeze?
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: It's one thousand bucks a year for every public servant.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: I think it's the right policy for our times. It's
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: how we keep our public service at work, and we
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: want them at work. There are magnificent they're doing an
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: incredible job. I don't want to lose any public servants.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: This goes to all of what you are asking me
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: at the start around our debt and deficit.
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  Speaker 4: We've got to be serious about this, We've got to
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: tackle it.
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  Speaker 3: The alternative will be eighteen hundred public servants leaving our
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: public service, and that is not acceptable to me.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: So do public servants just need to suck it up?
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I think that public servants do an amazing job. I
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: don't think they'll suck it up. I think public servants genuinely.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: No one understands the territory better. I think they genuinely
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: understand our budget. They genuinely understand what I'm asking of them.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: I'm not asking of them anything that I'm not doing myself.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: Police are all on.
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: The pay frees as our eCos.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: So it's now a question to the public service one
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: thousand bucks a year every year?
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  Speaker 4: Is that okay?
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: You have also announced these new rules in an effort
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: to rain in the spending from government departments. They are
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: in line with the Langulent recommendations. As I understand, agency
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: staff executives are going to face tougher consequences, ranging from
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: warnings to termination for breaching caps to prove budgets and
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: employee expenses by more than one percent? Are departmental heads
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: really going to be sacked if they go over budget?
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: Extremely serious about this. We're putting it into law about
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: that one percent trigger. Then the please explain an independent investigation,
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: suspension of the CEO or dismissal of the CEO. We
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: need departments to stay within the budget. A cabinet takes
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: months to come up with a budget. We think very
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: carefully about how much money we allocate to agencies. You
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: need to stay within that allocation. We take this very seriously.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: This is how we keep repairing the budget.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: So how many of those executives or those those heads
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: of departments went over budget last financial year for example.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Well, their last financial year was the COVID impacted year,
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: so I'm very understanding of that.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: So final we had a situation though in the past
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: where we have had those chief executives go over their budgets.
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  Speaker 4: So to finish off their last one.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: The final on your reports for the last year haven't
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: come through yet, but I'm very understanding of COVID. I
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: think one reason why we're doing this is that agencies
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: in the past have gone over. I don't want to
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: pick on health, but they went over in many, many years.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: They now pulled their heads in and come in under
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: which is fantastic. I thank them for that. It's evidence
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  Speaker 3: that you can maintain a discipline come in under budget.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: And we're now bringing this in as a measure and
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: warning to all CEOs.
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  Speaker 1: I guess so what I'm getting to is, obviously we
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: know that COVID is something that's had a huge impact
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: on so many and particularly those departments, but it does
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: demonstrate that there's going to be blowouts to budgets. So
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  Speaker 1: what I'm getting at is, are you going to make
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: excuses for those chief executives and for those departments if
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: they do go over budget rather than following through with
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: what you're outlining.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Have to be a seriously good please explain. I think
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  Speaker 3: COVID is an example of a seriously good Please explain,
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  Speaker 3: But have to be seriously good, Please explain if you're
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: going to go with a budget, Because we do a
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: lot of effort into setting a budget, you know, as
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: a cabinets in months working on it, and then for
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: agency to just blow it, that's money being spent without
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: cabinet having a decision over it. So you know, I
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: think you can understand our frustrations. So we're very serious
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: about this.
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  Speaker 1: So really, I guess that pre COVID warning that you
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: had put out through the Langlent review of you know,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: getting tough on these chief executives, they haven't done what
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: you asked.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: Oh no, I think they've done an extraordinary job during
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: COVID and if you look at our bottom line, we
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: improved it by six hundred million dollars in that financial year,
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  Speaker 3: so we're able to keep a tight ship. But I
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: think everyone can also understand that COVID has an impact.
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  Speaker 3: I'm understanding of last financial year. This financial year very serious.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Chief, I will go into some more detail of
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: some of the programs and different funding announcements that were
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: made yesterday, but I'm very aware of the fact that
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: we're extremely pressed for time this morning. While there is
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: a two point three billion dollar improvement on last year's forecast,
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  Speaker 1: the net debt to revenue ratio by then will be
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty one percent. It is significantly higher
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: than the government's target ratio of fifty percent. Does this
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: figure demonstrate that the measures that you've implemented will make
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: no real difference long term when it comes to managing
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: the budget.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: So we've significantly improved on that debt to revenue ratio.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: So that's that's an amount I believe outside the Ford estimates.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: I think we've shown that we can improve our deficit
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: and our debts. My expectation is the economy will keep growing.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: That's our prediction in the forecasts. And there's thirty five
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: billion dollars worth of projects that are not in our forecast.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: So my opinion, I think we've demonstrated we can repair it,
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: and we'll keep repairing it. That's what you've got to do,
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: and so you won't see us hit that.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: All right, Chief Minister, we are going to need to
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: move along and talk about the legislation around youth crime.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: This legislation is going to be passed on urgency these sittings.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: What is going to be included in that bail reform?
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: So to step it out, if you are given the
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: privilege of bail, and while on bail, you have a
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: serious breach of bail, for sample, committing a fresh offense,
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: now obviously bail has failed and your bail will be
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: revoked and then a considered decision can be made about
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: what happens next, because obviously bail in the instance has failed.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: When courts order electronic monitoring, there's a forty eight hour
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: gap while they assess the person and put the monitoring
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: in place. We want police to be able to fill that gap,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: so't there's no loophole on electronic monitoring. And we want
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: somebody start diversion to complete diversion. I think that's a
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: very sensible thing. So that's that's probably the main things
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: they've got attention about what's in the what's in the
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: bill that we're put introducing.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Chief Minister, What will be considered a breach of bail?
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Does it need to be a serious offense or what
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: are we talking here?
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: So we're serious offense we design is anything not technical
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: or trivial essentially.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: So considered a serious offense.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: So committing a fresh offense, failing to attend court.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: So a fresh offense could be a break and.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: Entry, any of the any of the offenses essentially that
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: are on the prescribed list, is my understanding, will consider
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: a serious breach.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: So is that any different to what we currently have
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: in place the prescribed defenses?
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: That goes to the first instance of bail being decided.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: This is if you are on bail and you commit
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: a fresh offense, then your bail is revoked.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: So can you just refresh my memory because my understanding
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: is that a prescribed defense is an assault, a sexual assault.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: We're adding to the assault on police.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: So what's been added to.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: That list unlawful entry and a number of other things like that.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: So where there there's a long list. Yeah, so there's
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: a long list being added to what is a prescribed
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: offense failure, failure to attend court. So essentially those things
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: that I think are common sense that would be considered
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: the serious breach of bail and then that bowl's revoked.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: So in a media release after a current affair ed,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: you said the measures will include tougher than ever consequences
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: for breach of bail. This means if a young person
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: commits a serious breach while on bail, their bail will
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: be automatically revoked and they will be taken into custody.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: So that is still going to be the case, but
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: they've got to be part of those prescribed defenses.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: But that list is expanded.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: That list is expanded, and it will include things like
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: unlawful entry, assaults, police assaults, yes, sexual assaults, stealing a.
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: Car, yes, I'm very sure of that.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, no doubt we're going to see a bit
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: more detail of that list of prescribed offenses. You are
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: being heavily criticized eyes by community groups and health organizations,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Danila dilba am Sand and a coalition of indigenous members.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Of your own party.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Are these changes going to be watered down in an
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: effort to meet their concerns.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: I think you've seen what was said we're going to do.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: We've been very consistent on I'm being existed again this
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: morning and what we're going to do. I think a
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: lot of their Christians go the vibe of things. I
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: think when you look at the details, as I've just
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: described to you, Katie, a very logical set of things
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: that we're looking at doing, I think they're quite common sense.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: I struggle to see how the community is safer if
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: you leave someone out on bail offending. I struggle to
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: see how the community is safe to safer if you
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: don't ask someone to complete their diversion. It's completing a
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: diversion that sees you break the cycle. I think that's
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: very sensible.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Are you frustrated that these groups are coming out and
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: really trying to quash these changes or to have them
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: watered down, when the community is really screaming out for
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: some common sense in this space.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: I respect everyone's right to have their opinion and make
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: their points, so that's okay, I get it. But for me,
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: I think these are quite logical series of reforms. I
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: think the community probably expects a lot of this is
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: already happening. To be honest, I think this doesn't just
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: meet community standards. I think this is what the community
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: thought the standard was.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Chief Minister, we are going to have to wrap up
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: those flights from India though the Prime ministers saying May fifteen,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: when do you think they're going to recommits?
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: I completely understand where the Prime Minister's coming from. I
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: think this is an important humanitarian mission. I want those
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: flights to recommence asap. I just need that clinical advice
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: to come in that say it says it's safe. We
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: are meeting regularly with the cho and others about that,
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: and if we can recommence on May fifteen, very happy
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: to but I need the clinical advice obviously to back
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: that up. The Prime Minister, by the way, understands that completely.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: No one's going to breach to the you know, the
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: clinical advice, but the moment is to ferreal for May.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: But we are actively working on can we get May
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: fifteen going?
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, so May fifteen is on the cards as far
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: as you're concerned.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: It's not totally.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: Out of exactly where the PM's coming from. We're coming
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: from the same space. We want people, We get it.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: We need to get Aussie home from India, absolutely get it.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: Just have to put the safety of territorians first and
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: we need that clinical advice.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I reckon that is a very good point to make.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: And there are a lot of people concerned about those
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: numbers out there at Howard Springs, so we've got to
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: get it right. But definitely this is a humanitarian crisis.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Chief Finishter, Michael Gunner, thanks for your time this morning.